Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 09, 2016

An Election Of Leaks And Counter-Leaks

The tape of Trump talking dirty was released just in time  to sidetrack from the release of more of Clinton's dirty secrets by Wikileaks. Trump's talk was juvenile and sexist bragging in front of other "boys". Surprising it was not. There will more releases like that, all timed to run cover for Clinton.

The just released emails of her campaign chairman John Podesta about Clinton's talk to Wall Street and other Clinton related issues are indeed revealing. She is the sell-out you would expect her to be:


Clinton: "But if everybody's watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position."

It is funny how the U.S. electorate has a deeper "very negative" view of Trump (-44%) and Clinton (-41%) than of the much vilified Russian President Putin (-38%).

When Trump will come back in the polls (not "if"), it will be a devious fight with daily "leaks" followed by counter leaks and a lot of dirty laundry washed in front of the public. Good.

Many of the people who will vote will vote against a candidate, not for the one that they will mark on their ballot. I expect a very low turn out election, barely giving a mandate, to whomever may win or get selected to have won.

Posted by b on October 9, 2016 at 09:08 AM | Permalink

next page »

Uh no. The silent majority that swept Reagan into office will speak again this year.

Posted by: Elwood | Oct 9, 2016 9:26:03 AM | 1

Please stick to geo-politics and quit embarrassing yourself re: domestic US politics. Trump is done and the longer it takes for you and the rest of the fake-left - both domestically and abroad - to get their heads around that fact, the longer the rest of us have to witness the frightfully shameful mental contortions your Trump-love takes.

Please stop. It's one thing to have to deal with shallow and inaccurate fake-left analysis without a healthy dose of butt-hurt b/c Hillary will be POTUS.

Grow up and quit being a victim of the US propaganda arsenal.

Posted by: Ron Showalter | Oct 9, 2016 9:37:47 AM | 2

In other words, I shall lie to the "Deplorables" to keep you safe from regulation and incarceration. Give me money. I am a corrupt and experienced liar.

Posted by: tsuki | Oct 9, 2016 9:40:53 AM | 3

Seems to be a accurate description of the US voters ..Hillary ...hell no ...Putin ....meh .:>)

Posted by: Terry | Oct 9, 2016 9:43:57 AM | 4

I had a home inspector come to my place last week, intelligent and skilled working class guy, who didn't even know who Trump was. He knew Clinton was running and hates her. But had zero clue who her opponent was. And he's never hired before. There are very few election signs on yards. It's an election for and among the ruling class.

Posted by: Rich | Oct 9, 2016 9:52:39 AM | 5

Sorry, meant to say the guy has never voted before.

Posted by: Rich | Oct 9, 2016 9:53:40 AM | 6

This may become the most transparent election - ever. May necessitate the most outrageous vote counting schemes also.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Oct 9, 2016 9:54:09 AM | 7

BURN. IT. DOWN. That was the WHOLE point of Trump voters from the get-go. And his slide toward zionist scumbags was a YUUUGE problem. To me at least. Now he SEES. And he won't be shut down by the fukwits. And regardless of what happens. He is likely carefully considering having his son-in-law fall down a VERY deep hole. His daughter and grandchildren will thank him one day. Et tu Brutus?

Here's what the Deplorables will be doing. On election day. 1) Bring black sharpie. 2) Demand PAPER ballot. 3) Vote Trump. 4) Vote I or D down-ballot. 5) Fill in all blanks.

And by-the-way. To #2 Ron. We do this for Syria. And Yemen. And all the OTHER people the USG, MIC, MSM ZIOthugs have been murdering and enslaving for the past 50+ years. Not just for ourselves and our children. It's the absolute LEAST we can do. But its a start.

Posted by: Take Me | Oct 9, 2016 9:57:39 AM | 8

Scott Adams who has been right so far says Trump still has a clear path to victory. The media is just trying to blackpill everyone. Why should we believe them? They are saying Trump can't win because they said he can't win.

Ron is obviously a Clinton groupie.

Btw, how is what Trump said sexist? It's just real dude talk with the lads. Plenty of people say that behind closed doors.

Posted by: lemur | Oct 9, 2016 9:57:44 AM | 9

@2. I happen to think Trump is another wolf in a sheep's clothe and won't deliver any significant part of his promises, so like you, I am baffled that someone like b could actually buy into this. However unlike you, I don't think the election is predictable, I think it actually bodes well for Trump, why? It seems clear from the polls, that Hillary isn't a preferred choice for majority of the voters. If he was, she should be polling close to the 50 point mark by now, yet she's in the low 40s, someone with her resume running against a political light weight like Trump should be doing much better. So what does that mean? It means (at lest to me) voters have rejected Hillary as a firs choice, she may be second or third but she's definitely not most voters first choice. So Trump has a chance, although he's working his darnes to ruin it, Imagine if it was someone else had Trumps message without the baggage?

The polls wouldn't be close, I think the undecided (who don't have Hillary has their first choice) will decide this election at the last minute, if Trump has more recordings leaked (not about his tryst) but for instance the NYT interview where he supposedly said he's not going to build a wall? ( I think that will be leaked soon if the polls don't move in Hillary's favor, the establishment clearly has their preference). If there are no more damages to Trump, he may very well win this thing, but I suspect the empire has more leaks coming.

I for one thinks a third party candidate is where its at, but what do I know?

Posted by: Blk | Oct 9, 2016 10:00:28 AM | 10

I'll be voting Green again so I can sleep at night.

Posted by: jo6pac | Oct 9, 2016 10:04:07 AM | 11

P.S. That 38% is comprised of ZIOthugs, hasbara and sayanam lapdogs. But lapdogs are dwindling. Cuz at some point. Self-preservation of DNA trumps tchotchke's. Tick-tock.

Posted by: Take Me | Oct 9, 2016 10:07:22 AM | 12

Breaking: A photo has surfaced of Donald Trump grabbing a pussy.

Posted by: From The Hague | Oct 9, 2016 10:10:49 AM | 13

The MSM, social medias and Internet are making any election a new Pokemon game but dirtier. Is this the 21th century "exercise of democracy?"

Posted by: virgile | Oct 9, 2016 10:12:19 AM | 14

Grab Them [ZOG] By Pussy - the Musical

Posted by: lemur | Oct 9, 2016 10:20:22 AM | 15

Clump 2016!

Posted by: ruralito | Oct 9, 2016 10:21:22 AM | 16

@ 2,

B is just as free to talk about US politics as you are, and there is no reason to think you are better at predicting the future than he is. A lot is going to come out between now and election day and no one can say who is going to win.

Also, while one may not like Trump, or even hate him, it is entirely reasonable to prefer the candidate less likely to start a war with Russia. And make no mistake, that is Trump. This is especially true when you consider where Europe stands in the escalation ladder. So it's not like the US election is no one else's business.

Posted by: Lysander | Oct 9, 2016 10:27:45 AM | 17

Want to read some original observations? (1) The Pence-Is-So-Presidential vp debate win was a complete set-up, with the DNC complicit in instructing Tim Kaine to play the obvious heavy, a movie caricature villian, complete with raised eyebrows, crazy expressions, and interrupting 70+ times. Made Pence a new hero. Reason? (2) GOP Rinos and DNC have been co-ordinating for months on "perfect time" to release Trump's Naughty Audio Tape (sharp ears can also detect it was edited), and this was reported by DC Whispers and journalists Mr/Mrs Bill & Beth Still in a recent video. (3) Media had their 'talking points' to conclude with NBC's Chuck Todd yesterday: "The election is over. Hillary has won." (4) GOP Paul Ryan did high-profile dis-invitation of Trump to Wisconsin; and then Pence substitution at event (vetoed by Trump) was to support GOP Establishment plot to replace Trump with Pence on the ticket, which they will still try to do when the DNC floats false pedophile charges against Trump w/o Oct. 9 (DNC whistleblowers gave full plan to Alex Jones because even there, some people are too disgusted with all this dirt to 'carry on camping'). Pence was in on the conspiracy from the very beginning. Another smiling choirboy.

Posted by: Davis | Oct 9, 2016 10:44:30 AM | 18

Somehow Clinton bragging about getting a pedophile off the hook is OK?

CLinton will start WW III. Trump may do so. What a choice.

Posted by: Yonatan | Oct 9, 2016 10:53:03 AM | 19

For nearly a generation now there have been decent candidates for US president who would, to a greater or lesser degree, have opposed our increasingly corrupt and violent oligarchy. Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, Pat Buchanan, Howard Dean, Jill Stein, Rick Santorum ... and many more you haven't heard of. The elites have perfected a system of taking them down, with no messy assassination. Ridicule them in the press, don't cover their positions, just their style, find a flaw or mis-statement and hammer hammer hammer until people believe that they are ridiculous, then ban them from the media.

Trump's big mouth and complete lack of shame has, for now, made him relatively immune to this treatment. So now the establishment is doubling down on the only thing it knows how to do. They are 'reporting' that Trump is finished. Perhaps yes, perhaps no. But it would be wise to remember that the corporate press doesn't report the news any more, it is attempting to create the news, out of whole cloth. Remember how many times they said that Trump was 'finished' during the primary?

I mean, how come what Trump said ten years ago in a private conversation, is headline news, while Hillary Clinton's decision to ALLY THE UNITED STATES WITH AL QAEDA AND RISK WAR WITH RUSSIA TO DEFEND THEM is somehow a minor detail? It's crazy when you think about it.

Donald Trump has said unfortunate off-the-cuff things. Hillary Clinton, as Secretary of State, has actually DONE some things so crazy that if I wrote her up as a character in a work of fiction my editor would reject it as unbelievable.

So I am voting for Trump even if the New York Times says he is doomed. We don't really know what he will do as president, but in the business world he has proven the ability to actually get along with disparate people in a constructive way. Hillary Clinton is a bona fide monster who should scare any sane person. We know exactly what she will do as president, and attacking Russian forces in Syria will be just the start...

Better a chance on a wildcard, then certain doom. IMHO.

Posted by: TG | Oct 9, 2016 10:53:58 AM | 20

The Podesta e-mails show Killary in her true colors (see b.) The few I read though were unsurprising and boring, because she is mentally challenged, as is her staff, they are in a bubble. The leaks re. her speeches to Banksters ditto, and anyway the speeches are immaterial, they are just empty, fakelorum, performances carried out to legitimise bribery in a completely corrupt circuit.

One e-mail (idk who wrote it and can’t find it back): a campaign manager who had his head screwed on stated that most likely one needs to add 10 points to Trump re. polls. Details were a bit bizarre and matter...

It reminded me that in France all the ‘official’ polls use an ‘algorithm’ based on 'hunches dressed up in fancy pyscho-babble verbiage' that add between 2 and 5% to NF votes (depending on election, region, first/second round, etc.) Necessary for maintaining their credibility, to come closer to what the real results will show.

As for Trump’s locker-room bragaddacio, not one single Trump supporter will flip, and undecideds etc. may switch to Trump, finding such an ‘attack’ illegit, frivolous, etc. It throws light on the fact that what Killary is being accused of — e-mails, Benghazi, Clinton Foundation, pay to play, etc. — is extremely serious, whereas smutty chat is part-o-life.

Imho the underlying aim of the release (first, serving to create buzzz! to cover over the leaks natch) was to furnish a reason for segments of the PTB establishment base, nominally Repubs., to come forward and support HRC, after they were subjected to pressure, arm-twisting, possibly even blackmail.

McCain withdraws his support for DT:

Paul Ryan annouced Friday that Trump was no longer welcome at the rally after a recording was released… and he gets heckled:

The Atlantic gives some kind of mealy-mouthed overwiew:

The ‘duopoly’ power-structure has been exposed.

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 9, 2016 11:11:29 AM | 21


If any of you "concerned" fake-lefties actually gave a rat's behind for the lives of your fellow Earth dwellers, then you would have already taken the commensurate time needed to see the American Spectacle for what it is and not allow the propaganda system to make such complete cheer-leading fools out of you.

Until your education occurs on this matter, nothing will change re: the war criminals who rule us.

Oh well. I guess the world will have to continue to wait.

Carry on...

Posted by: Ron Showalter | Oct 9, 2016 11:31:46 AM | 22

I think it got past getting people out to vote against a candidate. People don't want either of them.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 9, 2016 11:40:56 AM | 23

I concur with the very first will be a Trump landslide. The silent majority- the plurality of voters who are neither D nor R. We have no voice in politics and no voice in the media. We already see through the lies and the hypocracy. That is Trumps target audience. Even if it is just a show at least Trump talks about policies

Posted by: Phodges | Oct 9, 2016 11:49:07 AM | 24

@2 As a constant media reader and troll watcher it's always interesting to see the language used by corporate trolls, as they always uses well worn phrases such as "grow up", and "victim", and always, but always, deploy a personal attack on the target.

Before you again decide to involve yourself some intelligent discussion I suggest you get a thesaurus, and attempt to try not to use shame as a weapon, as it is pointless against non-narcissists and only reflects badly on yourself.

On a personal note, and as voting member of the Reich I see no positive moral choice in the Presidential election as both candidates are fatally flawed. I believe b's assessment that voter turnout will be exceedingly low is correct as evidenced by the flurry of high profile Democratic visits to previously very "safe" jurisdictions. Voting against someone is not sufficient motivation to overcome personal moral dilemmas posed by this rigged election. This will severely hurt down ballot contests.

If the Democrats were truly afraid of Trump, they would demand that Clinton withdraw her nomination and pick an alternative that could handily beat Trump, such as Sanders, who by Gallup's polling is the most popular politician in America.

Posted by: Michael | Oct 9, 2016 11:49:08 AM | 25

#22 is lecturing us on "fake lefties". Is that some subtle joke or is he just an idiot?

Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 9, 2016 11:51:17 AM | 26

@26 toivo.. i go with idiot... the exceptional nation has their fair share of idiots too..

Posted by: james | Oct 9, 2016 12:01:03 PM | 27

Trump is still going to "win" the election. I put the win in quotations because that will not mean that he would be declared winner. The plan to rig the election has always been part of the plan, what this leak provides is a way to persuade the gullible people that the tape cost Trump the election. The oligarchs in both parties and all over the Western world are truly terrified of a Trump presidency but equally terrified of the reaction of the masses, should the election be brazenly rigged with no plausible reasons. They have tried to manipulate the polls and it is not succeeding. But now they can go back to their pseudo pollsters and start dishing out dubious polls until the election. That would appear credible to the credulous voters who by and large are, frankly, dim. The two parties and the global oligarchs and their media shoeshine crew have now found a convenient talking point to prepare the ground for an eventual rigging of the election. Trump and his supporters must henceforth be more vigilant and pull no punches in exposing the Clintons' perfidy.

Posted by: Steve | Oct 9, 2016 12:11:25 PM | 28

@Davis #18

Indeed original.
Argument against your observations:
Also without a set-up Pence presentation and appearance is superior to that of Kaine.
Argument in favour of your observations:
What Pence said about Putin and Syria.

@Noirette #21 says:
It throws light on the fact that what Killary is being accused of — e-mails, Benghazi, Clinton Foundation, pay to play, etc. — is extremely serious, whereas smutty chat is part-o-life.

So right you are.
It must backfire (for thinking people)

Posted by: From The Hague | Oct 9, 2016 12:12:34 PM | 29

#22 I'd say "war criminals who rule us" is Hillary's job title to a T. So many Hillary supporters are giving off the scent of mixed rage and panic these days.

Posted by: NoOneYouKnow | Oct 9, 2016 12:14:23 PM | 30

And on other fronts - the Vice News vid I just watched was titled 'the US/Russia Proxy War in Ukraine'. I was shocked. Their prior coverage was 200% neocon blather. (Aka Simon Otrovsky IIRc) Could it be a beginning of a revolt by the MSM? If CNN begins to refer to Syria and Ukraine as proxy wars, it means the Empire's control of MSM is slipping. And that would spell the end for them.

Posted by: O'Coner | Oct 9, 2016 12:33:07 PM | 31

@22. TwitQuit trying to sound like you're some sort of lone voice crying in the wilderness. Yer embarrassing yerself.

Posted by: ruralito | Oct 9, 2016 12:37:20 PM | 32

oh geez, i see they posted again, lol...

Posted by: james | Oct 9, 2016 12:39:19 PM | 33

My opinion. Trump is out to help an ole' friend, the Clintons. As the behind the scenes agreement between both political rackets (excuse me, parties) goes, we had 8 years Democrat, and now we were to have 8 years of Republican rule. Ole' Jeb Bush was the Repub. favorite for this election. But Madame Hillary was still ticked off from losing back in '08. This election cycle is the only one left for her chances of gaining the Oval Office. So she asked an ole' friend, The Donald for help. So, The Donald succeeded in knocking out ole' Jebby Bush and the rest of the Repoooblicans on the ticket. The Donald, God bless him, made his fortune in real estate. Next he expanded his holdings into the business of entertainment, that being casinos (a former Mafia holding; run now by state gub-mints) and TV and cable outlets. Heck, he had his own reality show, following in the footsteps of the Kardashians. He really knows how to work up a crowd. So, my opinion and that alone, The Donald is an entertainer. Never was and never will be presidential in nature. The drive that brought him to the heights of his success is not there for this reality show episode, excuse me, candidacy. So I end my comment with this. Ladies and Gentleman, the President of the United States, Hillary Rodham Clinton!

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Oct 9, 2016 12:41:57 PM | 34

To 31. Nah. It's not the end of 'em. Just controlled opposition. Cuz thru all this miasma. LOTS of decent folks are hip to what's happening in Yemen and Syria. The muppets are rubbing sleep from their tired little eyes. And SEE what the MSM has been neglecting to tell them. The MSM aren't stupid. They hope feeding the muppets some bit of truthiness, we'll fall back into an MSM-stupor. Sadly. The MSM has lost too many muppets. Gone for good. This CIVIL WAR won't be fought carnally. But it will be just as bloody. Cuz metaphysical warfare is something for which they are NOT prepared to battle.

Posted by: Take Me | Oct 9, 2016 12:52:20 PM | 35

There's that line from T.S. Eliot's Four Quartets about being "distracted from distraction by distraction". This seems to be the purpose of another presidential election, as we watch, worry about, or laugh perhaps, at another imperial placeholder. The Russians are using these surreal days to practice bunkering down. With such a restless energy the killing and chaos spreads, the uprootedness, deception, lawlessness, crawls by like a shadow along the walls. We see it and then we don't.

Go, go, go, said the bird: human kind
Cannot bear very much reality.
Time past and time future
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.

Posted by: Copeland | Oct 9, 2016 12:53:37 PM | 36

Once again, Bernie held down the Left so Hillary could capture the Center and Near Right, then delivered the Left votes to her. That prediction was proven, exactly as I stated it.

Trump captured the Far Rabbinical Right for a purpose. He is the WWE PT Barnum showman.
It will be a 'Really Big Show', a 'WWE Smackdown', and you can see and hear this same kind of smack talk garbage any week on Raw. Trump will lead FRR right over the cliff.

Hillary was selected, is selected, will be selected by the One Party of Mil.Gov.Fed.Biz. They will use their Pre-Programmed Civil Unrest behind Trump's defeat to push through a National Police State and a $TRILLION Defense (sic) establishment. This is only obvious. The IDIQNB DHS legislation was already passed, but never funded. The Patriot Act Two was already passed. On to Syria and Ukraine Perpetual War for oil pipelines and 'Lebensraum'.
Hillary will push TPP and further bank deregulation, anything with Pay-for-Play income.

It's a $4T charade. You can see next season just by closing your eyes and thinking a bit.

Posted by: chipnik | Oct 9, 2016 1:05:46 PM | 37


A pile of garbage bloviating to a pile of garbage:
Fahged abahd et.

Clinton Camp Braces For All-Out Assault...
WWE RAW, November 7th, 2016 on CNN!

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Oct 9, 2016 1:18:59 PM | 38

I think the term used here refers to any form of modern mass release of bombs or missiles.
Each B-52 which of course can refuel so fly from anywhere, & is ponderously slow, can release about 24 cruise missiles, serially, from a rotary dispenser inside, from standoff distances.

So the problem becomes "How many 'rounds' do the russians have for each & every one of their missile batteries there?"

"This is a very dangerous game given that Russia, being in Syria at the invitation of the legitimate government of this country and having two bases there, has got air defense systems there to protect its assets," Lavrov said, according to Reuters.

Posted by: schlub | Oct 9, 2016 1:20:57 PM | 39

>> Scott Adams

Except that he didn't inherit or steal his money, he demonstrated he's nearly perfect example of the 1% when he mocked any voter who has a opinion about anything except for his own opinion that estate taxes are theft (though so would be Trump's inflation-based tax -- thereby demonstrating Mr. Scott 1%-er Adams is less informed than he is rich) and that (according to Scott Adams himself) is far and away the issue that matters to Scott Adams in this election.

I've not chuckled over a Dilbert in a while. Now that I know how Scott prioritizes the issues of the world, it'll be even more difficult.

Posted by: dumbass | Oct 9, 2016 1:32:44 PM | 40

Oh Boy. They're promising MOAR Trump tapes. SQUEE! Bring it bitches. Cuz the more they pile-on. The better Deplorables like him. Cuz he ain't one of THEM. The ZIO-thugogcracy. Hope Trump whips out a cigar and blows smoke in her face. Make her eyes move around in opposite directions. And mention Yemen as the direct result of HORRORS which her ME policies have wrought. Taking bribes from SA. Fuck her up Donald. Speak TRUTH. And let the chips fall.

Posted by: Take Me | Oct 9, 2016 1:48:04 PM | 41

B you mentioned one very important thing, a mandate, those bastards never had any mandate fo over 240 years, now 150 millions of eligible US voters will not vote because there is no candidate that truly represent them.
The boycott is the only way ruler may notice that they are no longer live veld in their delusional dreams.
There will be no mandate to rule handed over to anyone on November 8, and corporate oligarchy will continue.

And here is why still some sheeple will crawl to the slaughterhouse:

Posted by: Kalen | Oct 9, 2016 2:00:53 PM | 42

@37 Would you say, then, that it'll be a really YUUUGE show?

Posted by: W.H. Brewer | Oct 9, 2016 2:03:05 PM | 43

@ Showalter/22

Everyone here already mostly agrees with your overall comment. You might want to continue lurking rather than show up twice simply to insult b and the commentariat. Alternatively, expound more dryly on your positions.

"... see the American Spectacle for what it is and not allow the propaganda system to make such complete cheer-leading fools out of you. ..."

Who's cheerleading? Is it possible you're hearing an echo of what you hear on other websites?

I hear a lot of boos in here. Maybe you think there shouldn't be even any discussion about it at all (other than "it's a show"). But, it's hard to avoid discussing the circus when the loudspeakers broadcast it all around us. So although people here aren't lining up to watch any of the shows, they still feel an urge to chit-chat with fellow travelers about the noises coming from the tents.

Posted by: dumbass | Oct 9, 2016 2:05:29 PM | 44

Trump ought to wear Tokyo Rose McCain's abandonment as a badge of honour...

Posted by: MadMax2 | Oct 9, 2016 2:05:50 PM | 45

Chipnik, I'm so glad you are posting again. For a long while I have been thinking about stories you wrote and your familiarity with Hillary, and growing up together in the same community. It caused me to rflect on many of the same subtle distinctions of character I have encountered and resonate in my own travels, and how many so easily fell into a mode of behavior and way of thinking that are by dgrees appalling, flawed, and completely possible in this realm of delusion we seem to inhabit together. Take but degree away I guess.

It strikes me how fortunate we are not to have succumbed to a similar fate, we who don't troll here, and how easily a few misdecisions and miscalculations might have taken us down darker paths, like those of Hillary, and what a fine balance of forces seems to exist in all of nature.

I so wish there were a way to summon up stories told here months or years ago that are representative, and characters who are gone whose company I miss. Even though s(he) swore profusely to comic effect and was dismissed from the scene, I miss slothrop was it? Can't recall if that was the name given?

MOA is daily bread for me to celebrate the different opinions that exist even among like minded people. This particular election is extremely devisive that I don't discuss it in public anymore. Yesterday an aquaintance of mine was expressing his outrage about Trump, a chacter I have never been able to stomach all the way back to my years in NYC, and Hillary too. But he doesn't have the time I have, or the will, to sort out all the information about these folks, so he is a Hillary supporter and there would be no way to change his vote.

Posted by: Geoff | Oct 9, 2016 2:08:35 PM | 46

Trump is alive. That fact would indicate ...

Posted by: ALberto | Oct 9, 2016 2:15:54 PM | 47


I for one don't talk about women like that, in public or in private. Perhaps that's a difference between boys and men.

Posted by: Kuma | Oct 9, 2016 2:33:07 PM | 48

@48 ha

Posted by: FecklessLeft | Oct 9, 2016 2:35:40 PM | 49

@Michael | Oct 9, 2016 11:49:08 AM | 25

Who gave you or the Democrats the right to demand changes after the Primaries? .....believe Gallup's polls and anyone who happen to disagree with you a troll?

IMO Sanders is worst among all the POTUS hopefuls. He lied repeatedly, In a debate with Hillary on Edward Snowden “He broke the law … but what he did [exposing the NSA surveillance] should be taken into consideration,” Edward Snowden wanna fair trial, but can he get it? Dun Forget Assange afraid of assassinated, to speak from Ecuador embassy balcony to exposed Hillary. Can you trust Obomo’s Justice Dept. or anyone in his administration?

Sanders said "Well, as somebody who spent many months of my life when I was a kid in Israel, who has family in Israel, of course Israel has a right not only to defend themselves, but to live in peace and security without fear of terrorist attack." Did you look at Google's Palestine map (taken down after protests)?

Your comments are flaws and an apologist!

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 9, 2016 2:43:45 PM | 50

All these fading has-beens chiming in because their pampered entitled lifestyle is threatened!
Like Colbert delivering at least 2 long screeds against Trump just the past 2 months (maybe more; I just look daily on main utube page all the 'trending' vids).

We're supposed to hang on breathlessly & forever for the latest Twitter about which cartoonist, Mockingbird troll, or other paid pimp will vote?

Why not ask the only ones whose vote matters, Kang & Kodos?:


Vote Clingon, the other ET:

Posted by: schlub | Oct 9, 2016 2:46:31 PM | 51

You have, perhaps, heard me mention "strategic hedge simple score voting" here before. Here are two short pieces I have posted at the website "The Center for Election Science", at:

They tend to fall back on a Google+ Groups "site" which I do not use since I refuse to join (corporate) "social media" at:!forum/electionscience

Here's my first piece:

Distracting, Unworkable Feints

Outrage Can No Longer Be Ignored. The elections methods enterprise consists of an imposing compilation of distracting, unworkable feints, erroneously purported to constitute viable election methods. Get strategic hedge simple score voting. No More Two-Party!!! No more!!!

I have described the strategic hedge simple score election method all over the Internet. It is simple in the sense that does not require easily hackable voting machines, and can easily work with hand counted paper ballots at non-centralized voting places. It is not hampered by any requirement to cater to so-called "sincere," "honest" (actually artless and foolish) voters. It easily thwarts both the spoiler effect and the blind hurdle dilemma (the "Burr Dilemma"). It just works.

Strategic hedge simple score voting can be described in one simple sentence: Strategically bid no vote at all for undesired candidates (ignore them as though they did not exist), or strategically cast from five to ten votes for any number of candidates you prefer (up to some reasonable limit of, say, six candidates), and then simply add all the votes up.

There is no point in casting "zero" to four votes since that would be useless for thwarting the blind hurdle dilemma, and would only make hand counting more tedious. The maximum is ten since that enables voters to easily assess the percentage of votes they are casting. Limiting votes to no more than six candidates prevents people from "hogging" voting booths by casting votes for large numbers of candidates.

Both IRV-style and approval voting methods suffer from the blind hurdle dilemma, which can be overcome with the hedge voting strategy. An example of usage of the hedge strategy, presuming the case of a "leftist" voter, would be casting ten votes for Ralph Nader, and only eight or nine for Al Gore. This way, the voter would only sacrifice 20 or 10 percent of their electoral influence if Nader did not win.

[....some additional text not pertinent here.]

Here's my second, also rather short, piece:

Problems With The Election Methods Cognoscenti

Our choose-one voting system has always been a disaster because of the spoiler effect. Because, for example, if you gave your vote to Nader, that might have caused Bush to beat Gore (not that Gore would necessarily have been any better). But we are stuck with this miserable system because of a surprisingly large array of people who I call the "election methods cognoscenti". Over many years, these cognoscenti have assembled an enormous collection of distracting, unworkable election methods. This "intellectual subject" has, for instance, consumed perhaps hundreds of pages in works such as the Wikipedia. These cognoscenti have created a gigantic Glass Bead Game which serves no real purpose other than to facilitate intellectual speculation. In nearly every instance where their election methods have been employed, disaster has ensued, although in a few cases, their systems have languished on, providing no better results than the choose-one voting system. Millions, perhaps tens of millions of dollars, have been spent promoting the "IRV" method, which has been tried and abandoned in several venues where it caused massive chaos.

As the 2016 elections are now six weeks away, I have yet to hear any of these election methods cognoscenti give any consideration to the fact that where their methods contain any flaws, those flaws will be ruthlessly exploited by a massive corporate regime. They appear to fail to understand that non-casual, elite interest elections are not primarily contests between political candidates, nor contests between various ideological cohorts. Elite interest elections are always direct contests between the common people and some form of massive corporate regime.

[....some additional text not pertinent here.]

I am writing additional articles for this site, so I may open some new "topic starters" there soon.

It must be obvious by now that our choose-one (usually called "plurality" for no good reason) method cannot be deemed even slightly democratic since it causes the voters to (quite justifiably) feel trapped. This does not have to be "rocket surgery".

Posted by: blues | Oct 9, 2016 2:51:34 PM | 52

A lady from Ireland wrote an article about how to identify propaganda. (Her name is Danielle Ryan.) I have read and reread B's comments a number of times ... I have sat and pondered them for a while ... and for the life of me I can't figure out how anyone could say what he wrote was pro-Trump. It as undeniably anti-Clinton insofar as what the woman has done is venal and rotten. But, just because it is anti-Clinton does NOT in and of itself make it pro-Trump. In my world it seems absolutely possible to be anti-Clinton and anti-Trump at one and the same time. I would suggest that given the numbers cited in the article, Clinton, Trump and Putin have very high anti-numbers.

So, I guess what this means is that criticizing the QoC as the presumptive head of the EoC is a bad thing ... . Thus, my two cents worth? Search for Danielle Ryan and read her article on propaganda ... then see if B was demonstrating a bias ... or stating the obvious: they are both disgusting.

Posted by: rg the lg | Oct 9, 2016 2:55:08 PM | 53

To all Bernie Sanders worshiper. If you still hopeful for Bernie's resurrection. Vote Hillary Clinton. Otherwise, vote Jill Stein, Trump or stayed home. That's your choice

Pssssh... stayed home so Trump win by a landslide and decimate Democrats in all 3 branches of government.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 9, 2016 3:17:35 PM | 54

#25 already nailed it but i have to mention how hilarious it is being told to "grow up" by some who thinks talking about kissing and "grabbing pussy" is "horrific" and "campaign ending". to be so upset by something so stupid and conjure up images of a dainty old british woman dropping her opera glasses to say "well i NEVER!" is hardly the behavior of an "adult".

reminds me of sarah "leave israel ALONE!!!" silverman and her whining dumbfuckery aimed at sanders fans. "you guys need to grow up and quit being ridiculous and vote for someone you hate" is where our "democracy" stands. hillary supporters seem to spend all their time preventing the slightest bit of effort or competition while seething with contempt for anyone who dares bring up real issues as opposed to the CliNtoN/MSDNC tabloid garbage.

Posted by: the pair | Oct 9, 2016 3:26:54 PM | 55

@rg the lg | Oct 9, 2016 2:55:08 PM | 54

Came across Danielle Ryan's articles in NEO and RT. Honestly, still dunno which sides of the fence she sits.

Thanks, gimme the title or subject of the article?

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 9, 2016 3:31:37 PM | 56

Would it reveal my YouTube comment section pedigree if I indulged my hyper-negative anti Clinton ad fantasy here?

I'm curious to just how many times Trump can use the term 'convicted sex offender' without referring to anyone specifically in tonight's debate.

Posted by: Wwinsti | Oct 9, 2016 3:32:54 PM | 57

That's how a formerly great country rots from within. Two detestable characters fighting each other for the right to preside over the inevitable national collapse.

Posted by: telescope | Oct 9, 2016 3:40:52 PM | 58

It would seem empires, like fish, start to rot from the head.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Oct 9, 2016 3:58:16 PM | 59

All of this goes to show that money can't buy class. What a joke.

Posted by: Dean | Oct 9, 2016 4:05:07 PM | 60

As much as I dislike Hillary, it's difficult to shirk misgivings about Trump's candidacy.

When he refused to change his brash, frat boy persona, he allowed Democratics to continue to attack him as a racist and misogynist. And his tax cuts - the centerpiece of his domestic agenda - are giveaways to the super-rich that Democrats can easily attack.

Is he serious about winning the Presidency?

It is best to NOT accept anything about this election at face value. Especially after Bernie proved to be a sheepdog.

The only rational vote is a vote for the Jill Stein of the Green Party.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 9, 2016 4:06:49 PM | 61

re: Dean | Oct 9, 2016 4:05:07 PM | 61

Actually, come to think of it, these days, class is the only thing money can't buy.

Posted by: blues | Oct 9, 2016 4:11:27 PM | 62

gosh, all this smutty talk...


Posted by: john | Oct 9, 2016 4:17:10 PM | 63

I feel sorry for Trump, sure what he said was just stupid but hardly any worse than any other male have bragged about women.
As usual the MSM propaganda do everything to get the corrupt warmonger clinton to win. I cant understand why REP. media and politicians pretty leaving Trump meaning a definitive win for the DEM. next month in the election.
Also Wikileaks should speed up the leaks on Hillary if they actually have something..

Posted by: Repz | Oct 9, 2016 4:20:23 PM | 64


This is the Cognitive Dissonant phase of One Party's waterboarding, these televised 'debates'. They need tawdry exposes to increase their viewership. Yes, even the election process must show a profit. Greed is good. That's how it works. Cue The Donald ans send in the clowns. There have to be clowns.

After this debate comes the Stress Positioning phase of One Party waterboarding, again. Some domestic mass terror would be useful, or some Russian or Chinese provocation, a plane falling from the sky, maybe send some aid to Lil' Kim to test 'The Bomb' again, that always spikes Google Trends.

They need to wear our peaceful proclivities down, to kill off the Andy's and Barney's of Mayberry. That's how it works. They need BUY-IN. You have to BELIEVE. You have to Love Big Brother, nobody gets to sit on the sidelines.

Then one more round of Cognitive Dissonace before the election, fire up the choir, get the church congregation on their feet, pound the podium, 'Make America Great Again! Make America Great Again! Make American Great Again!

And that's how you build a $4,000,000,000,000 One Party of Mil.Gov.Fed.Biz out of the cratered ashes of a bankrupted US economy, exactly the same way Hitler or Mousillini did.

And that's your'choice' (sic), El Don or La Duchess. Same Supreme Exceptionalists.

'Bomb the Gooks for Jesus'. Amen

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Oct 9, 2016 4:32:20 PM | 65

How about "One Nation under God" or "One Nation under Allah"

Posted by: Jack Smith or | Oct 9, 2016 4:52:38 PM | 66

Noisette: The Podesta e-mails show Killary in her true colors (see b.) The few I read though were unsurprising and boring, because she is mentally challenged, as is her staff, they are in a bubble. The leaks re. her speeches to Banksters ditto, and anyway the speeches are immaterial, they are just empty, fakelorum, performances carried out to legitimise bribery in a completely corrupt circuit.

Yet, donation tray was left implicit, I presume, and she did not use any lewd language when she talked to banksters (they do it only during the happy hour when they wait for the rush hour to subsist, or indeed in the MALE locker room). I just do not envisage a Sanders' voter who would change his opinion, based on the summaries I read.

Importantly, it was nicely plotted and that this campaign season is more responsive to news than usual, but the reaction goes through cycles. The rhythm so far would be lifting HRC ratings for a week more to be followed by some decline, and the leaks definitely have the potential of tilting the process just enough. Indeed, now was the best time to throw some raw Trump-flavored meet to the starving press corps who in turn will illuminate the nation about Trump's iniquity. Mind you, it is not simple to deliver good product: it has to be fresh, it has to be understandable even to pea brains, and appealing to personal experience. Most of us where sufficiently close to members of the opposite sex in the prime part of their reproductive age to be faced with some decisions: to ogle or not to ogle etc.

I wonder what would be the impact of numerous dis-endorsements of Trump by his fellow Republicans. If I recall, there were only two candidates during the primaries that were widely detested by Republican Senators, Governors and other grand poobahs, Trump and Cruz, and they were the last two men standing. The public is in somewhat paradoxic mood.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 9, 2016 5:07:41 PM | 67

Oferfukssakes. Hollywood joos and MSM have spent YEARS desensitizing Americans from any moral revulsion to crude and obnoxious and scandalous behavior. We endured months of cigars being inserted into interns vaginal cavities. And decades of movies which celebrate brutality, robo-killing and using the foulest language whilst performing deviant and perverted sexual acts. And yet. They still believe they can manipulate people who have NO illusions about ZIOthug elites. So the choice is to elect a guy who never mentally left the frat house versus a wantonly mendacious murdering zionist cu nt. Gee-wiz. Wonder who I'll be voting for...

Posted by: Take Me | Oct 9, 2016 5:13:24 PM | 68

Concerning the negative ratings sported by Clinton and Trump, one can view it as a symptom of decline of the Republic, or improved mental levels of the masses. A moment of levity.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 9, 2016 5:16:21 PM | 69

Trump Klingon;Hell Bitch Cardassian.
After this total attempted fix vs Donald how can anyone think he will cater to the enemy,zion?Sheesh,no way no how.
Trump is the biggest(yes a little blowhard) breath of fresh air in American politics in a half century at least,the answer to the salvation of America.Americans who love their country(not current policies or leadership but the Constitution etc),will vote Trump.
As to America haters and the
And how people can see this obvious corrupt fix and still vote for the Hillaryous one,is beyond my pale.
I can,however, see people voting for Stein,but she is of the same vein as Sanders,and don't bet Michael,that his poll #s are anywhere near what they were before he capitulated to the Hell Bitch.Another pig in a poke.And no way Jose.

Posted by: dahoit | Oct 9, 2016 5:29:37 PM | 70

65;The rethugs like McCain,Ryan etc etc should all be voted out this year.
Whoever is in,no matter the party,should be voted out,and voila,next time they'll respond to our wishes, not the 1%.
The reelection rate is obscene,considering their approval rating.

Posted by: dahoit | Oct 9, 2016 5:33:02 PM | 71

This whole "dirty talk" thing is a really fine play by the pro-HRC forces...if indeed the whole election isn't a total setup, of course.


Both are seriously flawed candidates. Nothing the relatively enlightened denizens of this blog have to say is going to change a damned thing as far as the outcome is concerned. We are just spectators, along for the ride. I take these political dumbshows the same way I take pro sports. I like to watch excellence, be it in poker, politics or the more physical sports, and I both pity and admire most of the actual participants. I admire their passions and skills and I pity their innocence.

That said...I neither pity nor admire either of these two candidates. Trump is a professional con man/thief and HRC is a conscience-lacking enabler of murderers and thieves.

I will vote for neither.

And neither should you.

Posted by: Arthur Gilroy | Oct 9, 2016 5:36:19 PM | 72

I don't think I'd ever vote for a guy who is too timid to say "pussy". Lack of balls = immediately disqualified. Fake dignified manner (as they nearly darn all are) = a thin cover for a lack of balls. A guy without balls will never have enough of anyone's respect to be an effective CEO.

In fact, I don't think I'd ever vote for a women that is too uppity or prudish to say "pussy", either. Underlines likely self esteem issues, or even psychosis.

Call it the pussy litmus test if you like. A swab, of a sort.

Dick, likewise. All Kosher words and extremities, by god. Made sound dirty - by man.

Posted by: Quadriad | Oct 9, 2016 5:47:16 PM | 73

Giving Americans a choice of candidates no one wants is a way of humiliating them, of showing them they have no say in how they are ruled. It's much like Caligula appointing his horse to the Roman Senate to show his power and his contempt for the senators who might still have thought they had a say in running Rome.

The social theorist Zygmunt Bauman argues that the age of nations states, which was born with the treaty that ended the Thirty Years War, and which we all take for granted, is now over. Nation States made decisions through politics and then used power to implement their wishes. Now, however, power no longer resides with the state, but instead is in the hands of international entities -- corporations, banks, criminal enterprises -- that are above, beyond and indifferent to any nation's political decisions.

Although American presidents, the congress, the courts still pretend otherwise, it's pretty clear they know they have no real power, and so go through charades of legislating meaningless issues. Allowing Americans to sue Saudi Arabia, for example, when there's not the slightest chance of pinning 911 on the Saudis.

If WW3 or anything else is in the cards it will happen no matter who is elected, Clinton, Trump or someone else.

The election is a circus meant to distract and entertain a powerless public. Might as well enjoy it. The Dems and Repugs like to strut and posture, rake in dollars and enjoy prestige, and try to make us believe they can still shape the future, but really it out of their control.

Indeed, according to Bauman, things may be spinning out of anyone's control. That's everywhere, not just in the U.S.

Posted by: Ken Nari | Oct 9, 2016 5:55:42 PM | 74


"…the exceptional nation has their fair share of idiots too.."

…the 'exceptional nation' is beginning to look and act more and more like the 'Master Race'. Actually not beginning. Can't see a great deal of difference.

Posted by: paulmeli | Oct 9, 2016 6:08:59 PM | 75

Ken Nari #75 says: "Now, however, power no longer resides with the state"

Should Iraq, Syria and Russia agree, that the USA has no power?

Posted by: From The Hague | Oct 9, 2016 6:15:11 PM | 76

Obama's role was to give a human face to inhuman policies. HIllary would be even worse. Trump a deeply flawed candidate, but is much less likely to touch off a war with Russia or China for that matter.

The elites do not give a shit about Trump's sexual history. They hate him because he could derail their drive for world domination.

Posted by: Andoheb | Oct 9, 2016 6:25:06 PM | 77

b, 'Many of the people who will vote will vote against a candidate, not for the one that they will mark on their ballot. I expect a very low turn out election, barely giving a mandate, to whomever may win or get selected to have won.'

A vote for one of the menagerie against the other is a wasted vote. It increases one or the other's individual total and that of the menagerie. A vote for someone outside the common, criminal box ... the Clump, as ruralito says @16 ... is a vote for change. It decreases each of the Clump's and that of the menagerie itself, the bottomless pit from which these snakes slither.

If we all avail ourselves of the opportunity presented by a low turnout election we can send ourselves the message we need to hear, which is that we have the power to end this repulsive decade and a half of war and financial crimes if we simply turn off the msm, vote the 'best' of the 3rd parties or write-in candidates, each in our own particular view. Take the pledge: no more jackasses, no more elephants.

Help improve our collective vision, make 8 November 2016 the first in a string of primary elections clarifying our vision in 2018, leading to 2020. And beyond.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 9, 2016 6:26:28 PM | 78

The problem with Trump is he made a #1 strategic mistake in supporting and giving into the religious right. Apart from anything else this gives zero confidence that he'd stand up to the far more powerful neo-liberal, neo-con establishment if he got into power.

That caving also cost him because in many critical to election quarters as he lost any credibility and mobilised opposition by his extremist anti-women and anti-LGBTI positions when what he wanted was disaffected Dems (and similar) to stay at home.

Religious right candidates (like Cruz and Pence) are unelectable, ever more so with time as organised religion dies in the US and their policies on women and LGBTI people become every more unacceptable.

The mistakes are amazing, all he had to do was stay middle of the road on social issues and bang on about the TPP, stay anti-war and pro US jobs, pick a half decent VP instead of a nutjob religious extremist and he would have won easily.

Yet again the Faustian bargain the GOP made with the religious extremists catches up with them and at some point, if they want to have a shot at power, they are going to have to dump (or at least neutralise) them. They are now a serious liability.

Losing to HRC take some real skill, any 'middle of the road' candidate let alone a populist with some real policies would have beaten her. She very nearly tied with Cruz as the most unelectable candidate ever...

But it is a sign of the sickness of the GOP that they cannot field such a 'middle of the road' person now, they are too dominated by religious and Tea Party extremists.

Posted by: Lisa | Oct 9, 2016 6:40:48 PM | 79

In fact, I don't think I'd ever vote for a women that is too uppity or prudish to say "pussy", either. Underlines likely self esteem issues, or even psychosis.

Call it the pussy litmus test if you like. A swab, of a sort.

bizarre... the bar is getting lower by the week. :( Although way things going around here, wouldn't be surprised if many agree with you. Maybe gaining command of saying "pussy" (and understanding if you are famous it's ok to "grab" anyone you want) should be incorporated into your hometown elementary curricula in "social development".

Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 9, 2016 6:45:33 PM | 80

The Hague @ 77

Of course the U.S. has tremendous military power, but the "elected" government has no control over it, how it is used or where. JFK's murder ended that era,

Many here think the U.S., and hence the U.S. military, is controlled by Israel, but Israel too is a nation state, and supra-national institutions ($$$$) seem to be running it as well,

Recently there have been plenty of posts here pointing out the contradictions and inexplicable behavior of American leaders concerning Syria -- is the military opposing the State Department? Is the "CIA" opposing both and calling the shots? I think Bauman would agree (?) that in the final analysis, none of them are running things. Americans, including their supposed leaders, have lost control of their destiny and can only do as they are told.

I'm not qualified to judge Bauman's assertion. I'm only suggesting it gives a plausible explanation for the current insanity we're living through. "The State of Crisis" (2014). A great work (only 150 pages) that you'll be glad to read if you haven't already read it.

Posted by: Ken Nari | Oct 9, 2016 7:45:45 PM | 81

@Ken Nari #82

No, you underestimate the role and responsibility of US-politicians.

And the States Russia and China prove that a State can act civilized and coherent.

Posted by: From The Hague | Oct 9, 2016 8:00:32 PM | 82

This is a great blog, one of best on the web wrt ME details almost every media service misses. This has been true for a long time. Kudos.

However, I'm with Ron Showalter @ 2:l I think you are belying prejudice with this stuff.
s e, and has a track record of doing this repeatedly. I don't know about you, but guys in my locker room who talkeds like this mostly got in trouble. These are character issues, and they run a lot deeper then just his cheap behavior towards women. His University was fraudulent, took a ton of money and never delivered. He's shafted local contractors on many of his construction projects. He did what is hard to call anything other then a "bribe" to the Florida Attn General to avoid prosecution on his University fraud.

His "kind" words (comparably) towards Putin I suspect have more to do with his business associations with Russia then any insightful policy given his utter lack of knowledge of world affairs. For example, he's repeatedly said we should have siezed Iraq's oil fields to pay for our Iraq "liberation". Anyone who followed that misadventure will recall our own CIA reports warning Bush the escalating insurgency was fueled largely by middle m (doctors, lawyers, tradesmen) pouring in from neighboring countries with no history of extremism BECAUSE they (correctly in my view) percieved our invasion as an attempt to get control of Iraq's huge, undeveloped oil fields. (SOme of you may recall the EXXON exec. emails to Bush well before 9/11, strongly expressing their desire to get control of those oil fields).

THis proposal of Trump's is... insane.
He fed the Obama "birther" lie. His Foundation is riddled with illegal activities and, it seems... fraud.

His rhetoric on China is infantile. They didn't "steal" our manufacturing, Wall Street moved it their for low labor costs (about $0.60 p/hr in 2k when the mass exodus began) and (then) almost non-existent environmental regulations. These company's took the cost savings and pocketed it (not passed onto consumers). It was pure and simple greed. And lots of $$ & lobbying by their interests to prevent establishment of international environmental regs.

Trump's said China's playing curreny games: China's been pegged to the $$ for over 4 years now, he's at least that far behind the times.

What's this guy got, that some of you think he can bring to US presidency in arguably, the most challenging and dangerous world situation most of us have seen in our lifetime?

For a group on this blog so strongly critical of US imperialism in ME (again correctly), to overlook this stuff from Trump because of loathing for Hillary is foolish.

Your work (B) on MoA has been too important to taint with such highly speculative writing such as this. It's more or less the same thing 1/2 ass "journalists" have done dismissing Stein entirely as an "anti-vaxxer" and wifi fanactic (both untrue). E

From what I've seen, I think Hillary has been unfairly maligned on a lot. The Clinton foundation is one of the best run on the planet, well over $0.80 per dollar going to their work. They've done a lot of good. When she was SOS, I've sure heard/read the accusations been when I looked into details she handed all the details of approving requests by SA (etc.) to State Dept. processes and had little or nothing to do with State's decisions. She had little to do with Benghazi. Bush's White House didn't use "private email servers", they used email hosted by the sleaziest right wing organizations which had a lot to do with Iraq, Enron and the financial crisis... AND, no records were ever produced.

Powell used private email.

The Clinton's server was more reliable then State's: for those who paid attention, HRC's staff produced subpeoned records state simply didn't have (they lost them). AFAIC, Clinton's private server is a minor peripheral issue. I haven't seen anything damning in any of them. Most of the "CLASSIFIED" mails were posthumously classified.

I don't see her as the incarnation of evil which here (and so many other places) seems to be, now... a given.

I could never vote for her simply because of her postions and actions in the ME: voting for Iraq, advocating to take down Khadafi... all of which led to and gave momentum to the Syria nightmare. Her (and now Kerry's and most of US federal government's) rhetoric towards Russia/Putin is scary as hell. And almost completely untrue. Given what this has cost us and the world, this is more then enough reason why I won't vote for her.

I'm 60. Been politically active since 2k election fiasco (massive election fraud). I've put some time in here, took almost 6 months off to work for Obama in NM in his first election. He broke every promise he made to us... Wall Street/Banking reform and the bailouts, his ME policy (and expanding torture) and an utter lack of courage in most every major issue.

Since 2000, things here and US standing in the world has gotten worse and worse and with either candidate it looks to me like different paths to the bottom. I have -0- faith in either party.

I voted for Stein in '12, and will do so again... enthusiastically. She's the best informed presidential candidate I've come to know in a very, very long time. She's not going to win, but cards are so stacked she's fighting Goliath with slingshots. She does have a very good shot to get 5% this time, which would mean automatic entry on most state's ballots in 4 years.

She's the only one detailing solutions that could work here and on the global stage, they just-make-sense. Would be nice if B (or somebody of his choosing) would write a well researched (eg. HER words, her policies as SHE's written, review of her many interviews written and on YouTube) to write a detailed, PROFFESIONAL article on her proposals, instead of the the knee jerk dismisslals I see even here like she's a "jewish princess", or vague associations with various European or Canadian "Greens" which have little or nothing to do with what she's up to. Really weird thing about this (especially on MoA) is, she is by far the best informed candidate (and probably US politician) on US ME atrocities since Iraq. Many of her speaches line up almost point by point with what B's been saying here for years. She correctly identifies SA as financing worst of ME (Yemen, Libya, Syria etc.) Islamist weapons and has proposed sanctioning them. She has proposed same with Israel (I'm all for it). People just don't read this stuff here; it's all "Putin's fault".

Stein has correctly identified responsibility in a lot of this (in detail), and is proposing antidotes... not more war.

What's not to like? Seems clear to me: spend the next few months arguing seriousness of pussy grabbing activities, or nuances of Clinton's utterly destructive ME/Russia polices, or.... vote for an articulate under dog with proposals most of the hard working (eg; been paying attention) "progressives" have been begging for, for a very long time.

Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 9, 2016 8:02:26 PM | 83

#81 MMKay

There's always Hillary to vote for, if you prefer WW3 to political correctness and dipshit macho men speaking their mind out.

Posted by: Quadriad | Oct 9, 2016 8:25:37 PM | 84

re: jdmckay | Oct 9, 2016 8:02:26 PM | 84

What on earth are you trying to say? Hillary Clinton is a mass murderer. Trump may have said a lot of goofy things, but a lot of people do that. Trump did not destroy Libya (which had free health care, education. etc., for all). Trump did not laugh about murdering Muammar Gaddafi (insanely), as Hillary did indeed do. Hillary Clinton said "Putin’s actions are like what Hitler did back in the '30s'". And she wants to start WWIII by putting a no-fly zone over Syria.

What possible good is it to vote for Jill Stein, who is not really running, and who cannot win? What a joke that is.

Instead you should try to get strategic simple score voting, which would make voting real:

Posted by: blues | Oct 9, 2016 8:28:55 PM | 85

The hasbara trolls are thicc at the Moon bar today. Telling one and all. Ever so humbly. To simply NOT vote. Fuck that. Vote Trump. And then vote for anyone else down-ballot not a gawd-damn R traitor. Cuz the point is BURN IT DOWN. Not let ZIOthugs and their quislings stay in power. Jesus H Christ. Aren't you people tired of killing innocent men, women and children in Yemen, Syria, Libya and Iraq? FFS. Wake up.

Posted by: Take Me | Oct 9, 2016 8:30:46 PM | 86

After this tape leak, I am left genuinely believing that Trump always intended to go down in flames like this, and that the conspiracy theory between him and his old buddies Clintons was real all along.

The only problem was - there was no one on the Republican side any better than Clinton anyway, so Sanders was the closest thing to a sane viable alternative; too late for that now.

Even MoA is infested by Sayanim.

I am getting a twin engine good range STOL, and a couple of other things. Its stupid to blindly believe in mankind and its perpetuity as a given. The politically correct fucktards will destroy their 'civilisation' and that's fine if they insist on it, but I am not ok for my near ones to go down with those Darwinian losers.

When the Rads go through the roof (no pun intended), I am sure that the "to grab pussy or not, if opportunity strikes" debate will make a whole lot of sense to them.

Posted by: Quadriad | Oct 9, 2016 8:37:59 PM | 87

Jdmckay @84

I disagree about your positivism toward Hillary but I agree with your support for Jill.

Is Trump a serious candidate?
What you said about Trump and Putin resonates with my comment @62. Trump's seeming embrace of Putin is yet another risk that he didn't need to take on (and nurture). That plus Lisa's @80 point about Trump's costing up to the religious right add to the concern that he is not any more serious a candidate against Hillary than Romney was against Obama.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 9, 2016 8:40:24 PM | 88

My take as an outsider. Use Trump to take down the elite. His foreign policy basics are consistent and solid - non intervention, pull back of US military to the US, protection of local manufacturing.
These are the two best policies to break the globalised elite, US would go through some hard times for a bit re-adjusting, then take off again as part of this world rather than wannabe ruler of this world.

Posted by: Peter AU | Oct 9, 2016 9:17:48 PM | 89

I'm 60. Been politically active since 2k election fiasco (massive election fraud). I've put some time in here, took almost 6 months off to work for Obama in NM in his first election.

Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 9, 2016 8:02:26 PM | 84

So basically what you're telling us is that, despite racking up 60 yrs on this planet, you're not a very politically astute person.

You'd have to have been deaf dumb and blind not to have s9een the Obomber as a complete fraud back in 07/08

And you decided, having just admitted to being completely fooled by one of the most transparent political frauds in recent times, to presume you have enough smarts to start handing out "advice" (such as it is) on how people should vote this time around?

And not only that but you actually seem to expect not to be laughed at uproariously while you ridiculously pontificate on a subject you already admitted you're completely and utterly crap at?


Posted by: Killary PAC | Oct 9, 2016 9:31:51 PM | 90

@Killary PAC | Oct 9, 2016 9:31:51 PM | 91

Some ppl never learns. After being screwed, turn around and said "feel good"

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 9, 2016 9:41:32 PM | 91

Trump is being much more credible and effective in the debate that is on right now. This is the Trump everyone has been waiting for.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 9, 2016 9:46:31 PM | 92

From what I've seen, I think Hillary has been unfairly maligned on a lot.

Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 9, 2016 8:02:26 PM | 84

Yes but back in 08 you thought campaigning for the Obomber was a good use of your limited time on this earth.

So, given your track record, your thoughts on the Democratic Prezidential candidate's overall level of trustworthiness are very likely to be just as completely and utterly wrong this time around, as they were back in 08, and should probably be dismissed, by any sane person, as blithely as one would dismiss the deluded ramblings of some local harmless village idiot.

Posted by: Killary PAC | Oct 9, 2016 9:52:17 PM | 93

President Obama and former President Clinton are invited to join a charity relay race to help all the Gulf War disabled veterans who haven't been able to obtain adequate medical care.

After training for a month, Clinton was given the third leg, and Obama the final sprite. Their team would run for the Liberals, against a rival relay team composed of Condi Rice, Dick Armitage, GW Bush, and Colin Powell, the NeoCons.

On the big day, the race was broadcast on all the media and watched by tens of millions. There were flags waving in red glare and bombs bursting in air, yet despite his best effort, former President Clinton lagged the field so badly that Obama couldn't close the gap, and the Liberals lost to the NeoCons.

Afterward Clinton apologized for his terrible 8:34 leg, hanging his head in uncharacteristic shame.

"That's OK, Bill," Obama slapped his running mate on the back, "Bush did 9:11."

Hawww, hawww, hawww.


Trump-Clinton, what an absolute apocalypse for Average Americans! A massive grift gift to the Uber Exceptionals, The Takers.
1998 Bankster Coup. 2001 Pentagon Coup. 2003 Pentagon Holocaust I. 2008 Bankster Holocaust I. 2011 Bankster Holocaust II.

Think of what 2018 will bring, after US Government Debt soars past GDP, whether you vote Red or vote Blue.

On to Sevastopol!

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Oct 9, 2016 10:04:47 PM | 94

One of the more interesting things about the recent high-profile leaked Trump conversation is that he was actually admitting to a failure. I haven't seen anyone comment on that.

Posted by: RudyM | Oct 9, 2016 10:27:55 PM | 95

@ PeterAU / 90

If you're from Australia, you might be forgiven for not knowing better. But, you should google "John Bolton" and read about Trump dropping his name. Afterwards, any rational person should conclude this statement is dreadfully wrong:

>> His foreign policy basics are consistent and solid - non intervention, pull back of US military to the US, protection of local manufacturing.

There is as much "competition" here as between fake wrestlers. Vince McMahon doesn't care who wins!

Posted by: dumbass | Oct 9, 2016 10:33:50 PM | 96

Trump's line about Gens. Macarthur and Patton rolling over in their graves was masterful. Telling Hil that she doesn't know who Isis is. Declaring Aleppo lost. Scored some points. The Trump of yesterday's news is not the Trump in the debate. I find this strangely reassuring. Got her on the 3:00AM phone call in res Benghazi. Whoever ran Trump's prep gets a free drink on me.

Posted by: stumpy | Oct 9, 2016 10:45:06 PM | 97

@ 76 paulmeli.. yeah, master race with hillary or trump as head of the master race, lol...

@ 84 jdmckay... reasonable comments, except i too can't see a shred of value in hillary.. sorry... thanks regardless... i think this is b's version of chewing bubble gum on a weekend.. mildly entertaining, but in fact the content and the end results here look scary as hell either way.. i think what b has to say is relevant and factual.. these leaks timed just prior to the debates go along with every other stupid calculated move that has been a part of this wacky us election, like all the other ones in my memory, but this one taking the cake in terms of insanity.. all a part of the exceptional nations master race plan, lol.. great nation my ass..

Posted by: james | Oct 9, 2016 11:04:29 PM | 98

WackyLeaks latest analysis on $hitlary:

US involvement in Libya began at Hillary’s urging shortly after Hillary received this advice from her confidante Sidney Blumenthal. Note that the advice that the overthrow of Qaddafi needed to be connected with “an identifiable rebellion” in Syria means that it needs to be connected with civil war in Syria. US involvement in Libya was, of course, coordinated out of Benghazi, as the advice to Hillary suggested.

Once the fall of Qaddafi was a fait accompli, Hillary’s State Department advocated the overthrow of Bashar Assad as a critical component for calming Israel so that President Barrack Obama could accomplish his legacy nuclear pact with Iran without Israel blowing Iran up before the deal was sealed.

Posted by: schlub | Oct 9, 2016 11:17:57 PM | 99

shlub @100:

Once the fall of Qaddafi was a fait accompli, Hillary’s State Department advocated the overthrow of Bashar Assad as a critical component for calming Israel.
No. Planning for overthrow of Assad - and use of extremists as a weapon of State - was begun in earnest in 2006; as described by Seymour Hersh in "The Redirection".

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 9, 2016 11:45:58 PM | 100

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