Under U.S. Proxy Attack Russia Readies For Full War In Syria
U.S. State Department Daily Press Briefing September 28 2016 - Spokesperson John Kirby
QUESTION: But what I don’t think we have heard here is, so what are the consequences for Russia if this agreement falls through beyond some interagency discussions about options that have not yet been chosen? What are the consequences for Russia other than Secretary Kerry won’t talk to them on this particular issue going forward?MR KIRBY: The consequences are that the civil war will continue in Syria, that extremists and extremists groups will continue to exploit the vacuums that are there in Syria to expand their operations, which will include, no question, attacks against Russian interests, perhaps even Russian cities, and Russia will continue to send troops home in body bags, and they will continue to lose resources – even, perhaps, more aircraft.
The Russian Federation interpreted that not as a prediction or warning, but as a direct threat.
Monument to defense of Sevastopol in the second world war 1941-1942 - bigger
The ceasefire agreement fell through. The U.S. essentially blocked it by NOT pushing its proxy forces in Syria to follow its provisions. It blamed, as usual, the Russian side which had followed the ceasefire nearly to the letter.
Then this happened:
Al-Nusra Front Shells Russian Embassy in Damascus
The Russian embassy in Damascus was shelled from the areas controlled by al-Nusra Front and Faylaq al-Rahman militants, the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement."The Russian diplomatic mission came under mortar shelling on October 3. One of the mines exploded on the embassy area near its residential department. Fortunately, no one was wounded. The diplomatic mission sustained material damage. Another two mines went off next to the embassy." The Ministry said the shelling was conducted from the Jobar municipality controlled by al-Nusra Front and Faylaq al-Rahman terrorists. "We view this shelling of the Russian embassy as a consequence of actions of those who, like the US and its allies, provoke the violent conflict in Syria, flirting with militants and extremists of different sorts."
Russia has deployed a number of additional bombers to Syria. We do not yet know how many. But as soon as these are operational the "rebels" will face a significant larger amount of air attacks. A few weeks of intense attacks and their abilities, logistics and command and control will have been degrade to a point where they can no longer wage an organized fight.
Also deployed was a battery of S-300 air-defense systems. The specific type is said to be S-300VM, also known as Antey-2500. These are specially designed for defending against ballistic- and cruise missiles. The system will be stationed near Tartus harbor and will protect the Syrian east coast as well as the Russian fleet in the eastern Mediterranean. These also have good capabilities against attacking planes. A volley cruise missile attack by the U.S. against the Syrian and Russian airports and air forces in Syria, discussed in various U.S. papers as the start of a "no-fly zone" war, will be severely hampered by this.
Then there is this:
Elijah J. Magnier @EjmAlrai#Damascus agreed & #Russia is ready to send several thousands of special forces & other various units officers this month to #Syria.
9:57 AM - 4 Oct 2016
The final decision for this was, I believe, made after the U.S. attack on Syrian army positions in Deir Ezzor which opened the besieged city to the Islamic State. That, and the current U.S. bombing of bridges in Deir Ezzor, will allow for an isolated area in which the Islamic State can survive. Russia can and will not condone that.
The U.S. wants, for lack of better ideas, play hardball with Russia. But it does not want to go to war. Russia will go along with the hardball game. It makes sure that the U.S. understands that it will indeed have to fight a full fledged war with Russia and its allies if it wants to get its way in Syria. Further arming its al-Qaeda proxy-Jihadis, as Washington is currently doing, will not change that.
Russia will not give in to U.S. demands without a very severe fight. It bets that Obama, the members of his administration and the generals in the Pentagon are, in the end, pampered cowards. It has, in my estimate, a very high chance to win that bet.
Posted by b on October 4, 2016 at 18:09 UTC | Permalink
next page »A few weeks of intense attacks and their abilities, logistics and command and control will have been degrade to a point where they can no longer wage an organized fight.Guerilla style fighters don't have much command and control, do they? Or logistics, in the conventional sense.
Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 4 2016 18:36 utc | 3
Scary stuff. Coupled with a massive DDOS attack against US infrastructure, a Syrian air to ground escalation could really shake the coop. I mean, how would anyone respond to Kirby's assertion other than to assume the US has the possibility of unleashing more weaponry to support their pet revolution? The sense of narcissistic self-entitlement has metastasized from University twerps to public office.
But Apple, Samsung and Android Pay now OK in Russia? Parallel universe. Presumably no sanction violation there.
Apple launches Apple Pay payment service in Russia via Reuters (photo includes Starbucks cups, haha)
Oh, and USS Washington sailing to Haiti on a humanitarian mission, making sure Haiti remains a loyal mudpit, no doubt.
Posted by: stumpy | Oct 4 2016 18:37 utc | 4
"But as soon as these are operational the "rebels" will face a significant larger amount of air attacks. A few weeks of intense attacks and their abilities, logistics and command and control will have been degrade to a point where they can no longer wage an organized fight" And when this happens, the US would call for another truce; and predictably Russia would again go along. I just can't understand what is really going on.
Posted by: Steve | Oct 4 2016 18:48 utc | 5
Thanks for the posting b!!!!!
How many people have to die before it is called WWIII?
When/how is China going to show its support to this situation?
All of this for continuation of empire with private finance at its base. Will our world end because the global plutocratic families cannot give up and let our species evolve?
Our species is displaying much promise overwhelmed by too much hubris, IMO.
Onward into the VP circus.......look at that shiny thing over there......sigh
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 4 2016 18:50 utc | 6
So I was right after all. Of course The evil US Empire was predictably going to bring it to ahead like this all along. That is their despicable history, that is the atrocious record, that is who they are.
If Russia had rejected the idiotic self-defeating agreement with the US Empire in Syria then it wouldn't be so entangled and dangerous. Obvious.
Now, about all the clowns that said that Russia doesn't have enough resources, or taking a strong position early would start WW3 ? Feel stupid yet ?
And China needs to seriously get involved in Syria, if we're talking about resistance to the US evil empire there.
Like I mentioned many times, you cannot have a multipolar world without military defence of your allies, otherwise you're surrounded.
Posted by: tom | Oct 4 2016 18:51 utc | 7
...
"These also have good capabilities against attacking planes. A volley cruise missile attack by the U.S. against the Syrian and Russian airports and air forces in Syria, discussed in various U.S. papers as the start of a "no-fly zone" war, will be severely hampered by this."
...and the launch site of any such 'volley cruise missile attack' on Syria can be precisely obliterated by Russia, from Russia, along with the SuperPower Myth = a Two-fer.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 4 2016 19:03 utc | 8
psychohistorian 6
China's time may come soon. US may open a new front with India as its proxy. India vs Pakistan (blocking strategic access to the Indian ocean for China) or India vs China. Or perhaps nothing will come of it.
Posted by: Peter AU | Oct 4 2016 19:06 utc | 9
Laguerre | Oct 4, 2016 2:36:54 PM | 3
Guerrilla style fighters don't have much command and control, do they? Or logistics, in the conventional sense.
But they're not guerrilla-style fighters - they have this thing about controlling territory by defending it, so they nothing more than a non-government army, and in many cases a foreign one at that so some rebel groups are an army of occupation. If they go the traditional guerrilla route, do they have an ocean to swim in? Maybe in some parts of Idlib Governorate, but first they have to start swimming in that ocean and that is when they'll be most vulnerable. It might be easier for local Syrian rebel groups to switch to guerrilla tactics but I suspect most of the rebel groups are penetrated by Syrian intelligence so their membership is known and the Syrians government will apply Nacht und Nebel against them.
Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 4 2016 19:13 utc | 10
"pampered cowards"
One should add "delusional"
We will refer to this chapter henceforth as "Hegemony's end"
Posted by: Shh | Oct 4 2016 19:16 utc | 11
04.10.2016
With a holiday congratulations, day of Russian Space Forces
https://youtu.be/nMbM8Jx-esA
Posted by: ALAN | Oct 4 2016 19:22 utc | 13
Steve | Oct 4, 2016 2:48:21 PM | 5
And when this happens, the US would call for another truce; and predictably Russia would again go along. I just can't understand what is really going on.
Unless the US can demonstrate that the "moderate" jihadis have broken all contact with Al Nusra I doubt it, and I doubt the US has the ability to persuade the "moderate" jihads to do that. There might be a brief ceasefire to allow the "residents" of East Aleppo to evacuate but I think that will be all.
BTW, the Russians have always stayed out of the recent wars the United States has been involved in. As far as know, they've never supplied weapons to the forces fighting the United States and they have kept quiet about the brutality of many actions the United States was involved in recently such as Ramadi and Fallujah. As soon as the US-led coalition starts the invasion of Mosul will the Russians request a meeting of the UNSC?
Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 4 2016 19:23 utc | 14
I am sure most people here know Imran Hussein, an expert in Islamic Eschatology and recently I have been following his speeches with much more attention, quite scary what the good Sheikh thinks will happen in the immediate future and All with reference to the Holy Quran.
//https://m.youtube.com/user/SheikhImranHosein/videos
//https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W3d4F-sAjEw
Posted by: Sammy | Oct 4 2016 19:25 utc | 15
https://m.sputniknews.com/russia/20150824/1026127241/jamming-radar-missiles-planes.html
Russia has other area denial/jamming systems with varying area coverage.
A Failed US stand off attack would devastate their confidence.
Nato would stagger and consider how quick their demise comes
Should Amerikka be neutralized so quickly.
WW 2 radar can detect Stealth aircraft clear as day.
Russia continues to use these radar wavelengths.
Posted by: Brad | Oct 4 2016 19:30 utc | 16
Under "Special Forces" (that is SSO) Russia most likely will provide also some units of paratroopers. There is no necessity to drop whole Ivanovo or Pskov Divisions (they will be needed soon in and around Ukraine) but a significant force could be deployed fairly fast. As I wrote not for once in the last year--Russia's fast reaction force is like that proverbial prop rifle on the stage in the first act, which has to shoot in the last act of the play.
Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Oct 4 2016 19:31 utc | 17
While I disagree with the US objectives in Syria, the gamble that they will back down assumes they will act rationally and do not go to war. These types of miscalculations are how World Wars start.
Posted by: Michael | Oct 4 2016 19:46 utc | 18
If this SNAFU escalates sufficiently, it will help the corporations who've been systematically looting AmeriKKKa's Military Budget (for half a Century) to discover how accurate their projections of "safe" levels of plunder were...
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 4 2016 19:55 utc | 19
While Russia keeps quietly winning the majority of the hands, the US continues to push chips onto the table while loudly proclaiming to all who will listen that they are winning each and every time...
I don't think the US still has any recognition of how tough Russia can be to beat once they determine there is no way to avoid outright conflict. Those who call Russia too accommodating of the US don't take into account that Russia does not want to fight unnecessary battles with the US if compromise can be reached--I believe they view it as worth giving the US second chances since the ramifications and potential costs of larger scale conflict are so high. However, by continually goading Russia the US is pushing them toward sterner measures.
Posted by: WorldBLee | Oct 4 2016 19:58 utc | 20
psychohistorian 6
China- one thing comes to mind. Sell off a few hundred billion dollars. That would really start the dominos rolling.
Posted by: John Earls | Oct 4 2016 20:26 utc | 21
Sorry if this double posts:
Russia isn't bluffing PeterAU@1:
40 Million Russians To Take Part In "Nuclear Disaster" Drill, Days After US General Warns Of War With Moscow
"As relations between Russia and the US disintegrate as a result of the escalating proxy war in Syria, which today culminated with Putin halting a Plutonium cleanup effort with the US, shortly before the US State Department announced it would end negotiations with Russia over Syria, tomorrow an unprecedented 40 million Russian citizens, as well as 200,000 specialists from "emergency rescue divisions" and 50,000 units of equipment are set to take part in a four day-long civil defense, emergency evacuation and disaster preparedness drill, the Russian Ministry for Civil Defense reported on its website.
According to the ministry, an all-Russian civil defense drill involving federal and regional executive authorities and local governments dubbed "Organization of civil defense during large natural and man-caused disasters in the Russian Federation" will start tomorrow morning in all constituent territories of Russia and last until October 7. While the ministry does not specify what kind of "man-caused disaster" it envisions, it would have to be a substantial one for 40 million Russians to take part in the emergency preparedness drill. Furthermore, be reading the guidelines of the drill, we can get a rather good idea of just what it is that Russia is "preparing" for.
The website adds that "the main goal of the drill is to practice organization of management during civil defense events and emergency and fire management, to check preparedness of management bodies and forces of civil defense on all levels to respond to natural and man-made disasters and to take civil defense measures." Oleg Manuilov, director of the Civil Defence Ministry explained that the exercise will be a test of how the population would respond to a "disaster" under an "emergency" situation."
Posted by: Dean | Oct 4 2016 20:32 utc | 22
@7 & 18:
Putin's UN speech, Sept. 2015
The Russian Federation has gamed out this scenario, is aware that it leads to war, and has been aware of US collusion for quite some time. In fact, the last year has been little more than a last attempt to provide a political fig leaf of cover, giving western powers a means to walk away from the fevered dream of a greater Israel.
It hasn't worked, but given the nature and weaponry possessed by her opponents, it was a noble effort, heroic even.
Posted by: Wwinsti | Oct 4 2016 20:33 utc | 23
@18 Why on earth are you placing the responsibility on Russia to 'act rationally'?
Posted by: bbbb | Oct 4 2016 20:33 utc | 24
24;Looked the opposite,18s take.
First thing I thought also,we aint rational.
Notice this is all pre election escalation to smear Trump and his Russian good relations take?
Another sign of irrationality,as Americans do not want war over Syria,and I hope Russia plays along till Nov 8,when a Trump win would end this garbage.
The SD and the POTUS are maximum evil,as is the anointed successor.
A very very important election,to say the least.
Posted by: dahoit | Oct 4 2016 20:43 utc | 25
Just posted this on the last thread and thought I'd repost here.
Here's the full video of the press conference of the U.S. Peace Council Representatives who have recently returned from Syria. It's full of excellent material. Please take the time to view it. You won't regret it...and be sure to pass it on...Americans need to hear Americans speak what is truly happening in Syria - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8JppJyVxYU
Here are two quotes that resonated for me from the panelists -
"The motive, in my opinion, of the U.S. war is to destroy an independent Arab secular state. It's the last Arab secular state standing and it wants a client regime like Libya, like Iraq, like a number of other countries."
"This is not a civil war in Syria. That's probably the first thing we heard and we heard it over and over and over again. It is not Pres Assad against his own people. It is Pres Assad and the Syrian people altogether, in unity, against outside forces, outside mercenary forces, terror organizations..."
It appears that the US isn't going to try to take Raqqa and will focus only on Mosul.
https://southfront.org/us-to-leave-raqqa-city-to-isis/
"“In recent months, the US presence in Iraq has significantly increased, and their [US military’s] actions intensified. There are those who have come here from Syria. Military of the US come to Iraq every month – only in September, 500 military men arrived. The number of US troops reached the mark of 8,000 men,” the senior Iraqi military said.
...As a former head of the Israeli intelligence service, Yakov Kedmi, said in an interview with Izvestiya, despite the fact that verbally the US wants to take both Raqqa and Mosul, in fact Washington does not have opportunities to do this.
Kedmi noted that only Syrian Kurds are able to take Raqqa, but the US cannot use their forces, as Turkey is strongly opposed to this. “For this reason, an operation to take Raqqa is impossible for the US. It [the US] either has to spoil relations with Turkey, or to forget about the Syrian target,” the former head of the Israeli intelligence service concluded.
At the same time, he noted that the situation in Iraq is otherwise. According to the expert, the US can recoup in Iraq and show the entire world its power. Good relations between Ankara and Iraqi Kurds can greatly simplify the task of taking Mosul. However, Kedmi also pointed out that the Iraqi Army is not ready for the storm. He allowed the possibility that the entire plan of taking the city of Mosul could end with a large number of victims and a new humanitarian catastrophe."
IMO they don't have a hope in hell of liberating it before BO leaves. I guess they could just nuc it then I'd be wrong.
Posted by: Dean | Oct 4 2016 21:07 utc | 27
@20
I don't think the US still has any recognition of how tough Russia can be to beat once they determine there is no way to avoid outright conflict.
I will reiterate--most US "expert community" on Russia has to be fired for utter incompetence and fraud. US elites also have no idea of Russia's history. With some minor, albeit important, exceptions, Russian history in the West was solzhenitzified into the caricature and rigid narrative. This is one of the major factors in US losing situational awareness--violation of the fundamental principle (Sun Tzu) of "know thy enemy". Once the situational awareness is lost, the breakdown in decision making process factors in, then comes zugzwang. This, however, to a certain degree was predicted by Alexis De Tocqueville in his magnum opus of "Democracy In America". Russian history, and especially Russian military history are things which well, let's put it this way, undermine greatly US narrative of being exceptional.
Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Oct 4 2016 21:09 utc | 28
A world war is underway. Past wargames indicate that once nuclear powers start shooting at each other it ends with a nuclear war. Escalation is underway. The Syrian civil war was started and continues today because of support by outsiders.
Even the establishment Washington Post stated that the 2016 election is driven by the conflict between “white economic and cultural grievances and a party of social elites and ascendant minorities. This struggle [is] rooted in race and class”. With the decimation of the middle class and the financial house of cards in peripheral EU nations and the USA, any outside support will spark civil wars in the West. Russia has become an existential enemy to the western establishment to the detriment of mankind.
Posted by: VietnamVet | Oct 4 2016 21:12 utc | 29
Destroying Syria: a Joint Criminal Enterprise
The plain truth is that Syria is the victim of a long-planned Joint Criminal Enterprise to destroy the last independent secular Arab nationalist state in the Middle East, following the destruction of Iraq in 2003. While attributed to government repression of “peaceful protests” in 2011, the armed uprising had been planned for years and was supported by outside powers: Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the United States and France, among others. The French motives remain mysterious, unless linked to those of Israel, which sees the destruction of Syria as a means to weaken its archrival in the region, Iran. Saudi Arabia has similar intentions to weaken Iran, but with religious motives. Turkey, the former imperial power in the region, has territorial and political ambitions of its own. Carving up Syria can satisfy all of them.There is no chance that this criminal enterprise will ever arouse the attention of the prosecutors at the International Criminal Court, which like most major international organizations is totally under U.S. control. For example, the United Nations Undersecretary General for Political Affairs, who analyses and frames political issue for the Secretary General Ban Ki Moon, is an American diplomat, Jeffrey Feltman, who was a key member of Hillary Clinton’s team when she was carrying out regime change in Libya. And accomplices in this criminal enterprise include all the pro-governmental “non-governmental” organizations such as Avaaz who push hypocrisy to new lengths by exploiting compassion for children in order to justify and perpetuate this major crime against humanity and against peace in the world.
Avaaz is pressing for a no-fly-zone in Syria to 'save the children'. Code Pink, Democracy Now, the Intercept, and of course Netfliks are all on board with the White House and its White Helmets aka al Nusra as well. It's a question of whether they can get away with this ... forever, I guess. Or are actual, real people able to see through the complicity/'incompetence' of those pushing the 'humanitarian' campaign to prolong the war?
“This is a playoff situation in which you need both teams to lose, but at least you don’t want one to win — we’ll settle for a tie,” said Alon Pinkas, a former Israeli consul general in New York told the New York Times in June 2013. “Let them both bleed, hemorrhage to death: that’s the strategic thinking here.”
It looks as though Russia has finally accepted the 'Western' aims for what they are, and is going to bring the war to an end, with a well-defined winner.
Posted by: jfl | Oct 4 2016 21:14 utc | 30
Obama Warned to Defuse Tensions with Russia
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/02/obama-warned-to-defuse-tensions-with-russia/
A group of ex-U.S. intelligence officials is warning President Obama to defuse growing tensions with Russia over Syria by reining in the demonization of President Putin and asserting White House civilian control over the Pentagon.
ALERT MEMORANDUM FOR: The President
FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity
SUBJECT: PREVENTING STILL WORSE IN SYRIA
We write to alert you, as we did President George W. Bush, six weeks before the attack on Iraq, that the consequences of limiting your circle of advisers to a small, relatively inexperienced coterie with a dubious record for wisdom can prove disastrous.* Our concern this time regards Syria.
Barack Obama, President of the United States of America, addresses the general debate of the General Assembly’s seventy-first session. 20 September 2016 (UN Photo)
President Barack Obama addresses the General Assembly’s seventy-first session on Sept. 20, 2016 (UN Photo)
We are hoping that your President’s Daily Brief tomorrow will give appropriate attention to Saturday’s warning by Russia’s Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova: “If the US launches a direct aggression against Damascus and the Syrian Army, it would cause a terrible, tectonic shift not only in the country, but in the entire region.”
Speaking on Russian TV, she warned of those whose “logic is ‘why do we need diplomacy’ … when there is power … and methods of resolving a problem by power. We already know this logic; there is nothing new about it. It usually ends with one thing – full-scale war.”
We are also hoping that this is not the first you have heard of this – no doubt officially approved – statement. If on Sundays you rely on the “mainstream” press, you may well have missed it. In the Washington Post, an abridged report of Zakharova’s remarks (nothing about “full-scale war”) was buried in the last paragraph of an 11-paragraph article titled “Hospital in Aleppo is hit again by bombs.” Sunday’s New York Times totally ignored the Foreign Ministry spokesperson’s statements.
In our view, it would be a huge mistake to allow your national security advisers to follow the example of the Post and Times in minimizing the importance of Zakharova’s remarks."
Posted by: Dean | Oct 4 2016 21:34 utc | 31
All the fox news sourced stories about the s-300vm are referring to this system as "high-tech". It only just occurred to me that if the s-400 is in fact being replaced by its predecessor,(which I'm uncertain of) then the Russians must have a much lower opinion of western tech than I realized.
Posted by: Wwinsti | Oct 4 2016 21:40 utc | 32
@30, Russians have no illusions about West's ultimate goals in Syria, including the long-term planning for its destruction. The problem they've had all along is how to counter those plans without triggering an all-out war and/or getting sucked in like in Afghanistan (and dealing with the inevitable hybrid-war consequences). Being in a much weaker position than the US (or, in other words, not quite possessing the same degree of impunity), their options have been limited. They've tried to 'smoke out' the US and the hypocrisy of its position, but that can only go so far, since the US does not give up, has an effective PR machine to cover up any mishaps, and has an endless (almost) number of possible transformations. At some point, the US will probably do a false flag operation and attack Syria directly. And then, all bets are off. (By the way, to get a sense of the 'beast' we're dealing with here, read "JFK and the Unspeakable.")
Posted by: GoraDiva | Oct 4 2016 21:56 utc | 33
more reason for russia to distrust usa
Russia and USA agreed to safely dispose of 34 TONS of uranium from nuclear warheads by turning it into MOX fuel to be burned in reactors. This method was specified in the agreement because it is the only way to dispose of such nuclear material that cannot be undone, i.e., it cannot be reprocessed to new nuclear weapons.
The Russians built a MOX plant, fulfilling the agreement, but USA attempts to build such a plant are a failure, too many politicians and contractors made the cost too high. USA would rather spend more $ on weapons and wars than fulfill the clear agreement. So USA tried to fudge the agreement, to change its obligations by using a different process (NOT MOX as agreed) but this process is reversible, the material could be remade into weapons.
So Russia objected, and cancelled the treaty.
NOWHERE in USA media can you find any mention of the essential point of the agreement (MOX), nowhere is there any mention of the fact that USA wants to use a reversible process contrary to the explicit agreement. Instead USA media blame Russia for cancelled the agreement!
This USA BS will kill us all.
Posted by: mauisurfer | Oct 4 2016 21:58 utc | 34
Unlike most commenters, I tend to think that this won't lead to any hot war between the two great powers at least not over Syria nor Ukraine frankly not over even an eastern NATO country. Its also not in Russia's interest to fight a hot war with NATO right now, why? No one knows what the outcome will be. Russia will not fight unless its provoked ( and I mean in a major way), I think the U.S gets the message, and maybe looking to save face in Syria, at the same time they will make he price for a Russian/ Iranian victory costly for the victors. Putin is scheduled to meet Erdogan next Monday, I am sure this visit is strictly about Syria and won't be surprised if he shows up in Syria as well. I think the west is playing the only hands they have left, to paint the Alepo liberation as a humanitarian catastrophy just like they painted Dagestan war. There is no western military option, but we'll all find out soon enough. Just wanted to point out that this brats leading us all aren't dumb or crazy enough to start a hot war with Russia.
Posted by: Blk | Oct 4 2016 22:04 utc | 35
Wwinsti,
Someone like PW4 knows way more about this than I do but from the little that I've read, S-300s and S-400s are not mutually exclusive but are in fact complementary, use the same centralised control systems, and whereas the former is a medium to long range missile, the later is a very long range, very high altitude (anti-ballistic capable) defense system not focused at shooting short range low flying and quick maneuvering, which S-300 does much more specifically than S-400.
So, to summarise, if those two systems were rifles, S-300 is the equivalent of an assault rifle and S-400 is a long range, large caliber anti material semi-auto. If you didn't have to choose only one of the two and didn't know how exactly the things will progress, you'd absolutely bring both to a firefight.
Posted by: Quadriad | Oct 4 2016 22:15 utc | 36
@24 I'm thinking the Russians assume the West will act rationally, which given history could be a very bad bet.
Posted by: Michael | Oct 4 2016 22:34 utc | 37
Quadriad @36--
Russia's air defense systems work together to provide overlapping multiple layers of "insulation" against incoming threats, somewhat like USN shipboard defense systems only much better. Also, the Russian government is being honest with its people about the possibility of war--witness the civil defense drills over the past several years--whereas the Outlaw US Empire lies like crazy to its citizenry--many of whom live in a Pokeman-Go LaLaLand. And to attempt establishing a NFZ, the Outlaw US Empire will need to employ carrier-based aircraft; if it does, then we will see which military's air defense systems work best--I see lots of dead sailors amidst burning hulks if it comes to that.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 4 2016 22:46 utc | 38
@35 Blk - I agree. We are nowhere near big war. I personally don't think many wars start by accident, that countries drift into them. I think they're very calculated things.
Russia, beyond any doubt whatsoever, has created a vast matrix of calculations that reach all the way to the US heartland. I suspect we have a long series of gradations to get to that place. The US is incredibly vulnerable to attack, with unprotected and crumbling infrastructure and a corrupt government.
As Dmitri Orlov has pointed out, the US population is unaware of what is happening. One really rude shock, cleverly applied, could change a lot of things. Everyone assumes attacking the US will trigger the nukes, but I'm not sure this is true. It depends on the attack - it might not be a visible one. Russia would prefer to wait until around 2020, by which time there should be a good chance nothing fired by the US could get through the RF defensive net.
But back in the theater at hand, what remains, as b says in his excellent analysis, is to demonstrate to the west exactly what kind of firepower it faces in reality. My only question now, with the hardening of Russia's tone lately, is what kind of humiliation will the US be served? I had previously thought it would be somewhat private, to give face for the US to back off. But perhaps it's worth the public humiliation to shut up the neocons and wild clowns like McCain, and to show that Clinton will make no difference whatsoever in the scale of US impotence. People say they can't be checked, but I have never thought it impossible to shut these people up. I believe it just takes the right pressure.
What we are about to see, I think, is the final shredding of the US propaganda narrative. When the losing becomes so real and so bad that no amount of lies can call it winning, the US population stands a slim but improved chance of learning some of the truth of the world.
Posted by: Grieved | Oct 4 2016 23:03 utc | 39
When you want the bull to move forward you clear space in front of it and close the space behind. If you want the bull to turn you close the space in front of it and open space behind.
In either case you don't trap the bull or simply stand there and provoke it.
The Russians were right to offer the "deal" of trading useless Syrian chemical weapon capability for a few years of delaying the war. They were right to work with Iran and the US to lift the siege of Iran (however partially) for a nuclear capability that Iran had already chosen to forego.
So as R+6 works to close the military space of US supported jihadis in Syria, they must consider where the bull might go, and if possible to define that space with a positive value. They tried with a mutual desire to get rid of the terrorists, but it didn't work.
On a related note, the neocons can't be shamed. Really. Forget that. And the US media and the neocons are joined at the head, the heart and the hips. The historical truth is not about to be broadcast and accepted. This is not about a moment of salvation for the American people, no matter how much that might be desired.
Posted by: Castellio | Oct 4 2016 23:35 utc | 40
@ Quadriad and karlof1 36&38
Yes, the targeting systems of the s400 can control any other Russian made complex along its network linkage, Tor, buk, panstir, s300, you name it. The triumf can even fire their missiles if the variously named complexes have been left in automatic mode.
It's just that that bringing in an older complex, one actually owned by a NATO country(Greece has an older s300 m2), feels like an insult, even a dare.
Posted by: Wwinsti | Oct 4 2016 23:46 utc | 41
@41 Unless they are deployed for SyAF defence while the S400 (soon to be reinforced by the Kuznetsov) are for Russian facilities and newly arriving bomber wing (also rumors of upgraded SU-25 ground attack
airplanes to be redeployed). Israel's air force generals must be fuming..
Posted by: Lozion | Oct 5 2016 0:04 utc | 42
Grieved 39
Castellio 40
The US war likely has a new front to move to. With Modi's India joining the US, Pakistan and China's access to the Indian ocean may be the next target. Preparations have been quietly going ahead for this while attention is on Syria.
With the US being blocked at the moment in Syria, in the South China Sea, and in Ukraine, I thought they make have been deranged enough to try direct strikes on Syrian and Russian forces in Syria, but Modi's India gives them another line of attack.
Posted by: Peter AU | Oct 5 2016 0:05 utc | 43
I don't think the neocon policy makers in the American government are cowards. Rather they are delusional which in the end is even worse. They believe in the invincibility of America's military might. They are American exceptionalists who believe in the right of violent acts in the name of their morality and power. They do not understand the consequences of war as they have been safely insulated all their lives against it: hey, order bombs in the morning, a nice salad for lunch, and then dinner with friends and good wine.
Also, I believe that Hillary Clinton thinks the Russians are paper tigers. In a policy paper that Clinton distributed to her staff either in 2011 or 2012, she believed that the Russians would stand aside and simply complain if the US were to directly attack Syrian/Assad forces. The proof of this: Russian actions in Bosnia about 13 years earlier under Yeltsin. By the time of the policy paper, Putin was the Russian leader for about 12 years. Given the pronouncements of various neocons, they also share Hillary's that all Putin needs is a bloody nose, and he will run away.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/07/02/how-hillary-clinton-ignores-peace/
This threat very much echoes the threat Prince Bandar Bush made to Putin that if he refuses to stop supporting Assad, Bandar would unleash Chechen terrorists on the Sochi Winter Olympics. Apparently Bandar made the threat face to face with Putin right before the Olympics.
Posted by: Erelis | Oct 5 2016 0:35 utc | 44
@44 and got fired since though Salman is as reckless if not more..
@15 The Empire of Chaos is reaching a point where soon it will tip over and inevitably come crashing down while trying to bring Creation with it in its fall but it will fail..
"See them sparks blazing in the night time.."
"See them brighter then the Morning Star.."
Selah.
Posted by: Lozion | Oct 5 2016 0:54 utc | 45
The Admiral Kuznetsov is due to arrive off the coast of Syria some time this month as well. It is going to be a very busy few months in Syria.
Posted by: BraveNewWorld | Oct 5 2016 1:35 utc | 46
To 22: Russia considers its citizens as assets. And wants to preserve them. Whereas USSA regime sees us as liabilities. Particularly those of us who don't buy-in to their memes. They'll only save elites, zio-thugs and sayanam to serve them. Gawd knows being in a bunker with those fukwits is wayyy worse than being nuked. All things being equal.
Posted by: Take Me | Oct 5 2016 1:38 utc | 47
a shindig
a kosher power
pow wow
a sad day in hebrew histories.
a visual hat club statement
from pope on down
cap skull and bones men
of the oded yinon
working on the syriana
and attempted turkey putin shoot
coming real soon
keeping up with the cohen
kind a thing
Shimon Peres's funeral was nothing more than a show of Zionism power
Posted by: charles drake | Oct 5 2016 1:42 utc | 48
@47 take me... that was really confirmed in the bail out of 2008 for anyone who missed previous dispatches from the 'in crowd'..
b - thank you again for all your great posts and commentary..
Posted by: james | Oct 5 2016 1:42 utc | 49
#41 WWinsti
Greece has a pretty ancient version of this system, from late 1980s I think. It wouldn't even be under the same NATO code ("SA-" prefixed) as the modern version they've brought in. The whole thing has been developed incrementally from early 1970s, and there have been many increments and some of them have been very substantial.
#38 Karlof1
When compared to the now regular Russian nuclear defense drills, the degree of casualness and carelessness that the US government is displaying about the Syrian escalation portrays a picture of a government profoundly uninterested in the fate of the majority of its citizens.
Yes, as incredible as it sounds - I now honestly believe that the US Federal Government cares far less about an average American life than the Russian government cares about an average Russian life. This is much like the Cold War, except in exact reverse.
Based on what I've seen in the last few years, letting my Alien Residence simply lapse was one of the wisest decisions by default I could have (non) made. I feel sorry for the average american Joe and Jackie. You guys are truly on your own.
Posted by: Quadriad | Oct 5 2016 1:50 utc | 50
Disappointing debate tidbits - Pence blabbed much save zone and no-fly zone rhetoric.
Can't vote for either of the candidates
Posted by: bbbb | Oct 5 2016 2:06 utc | 51
Isn't Turkey really the problem for R+6?
Moderate head-choppers are still supplied via Turkey, right? And, according to Turkey's FM on France24 (last week), Turkey is expanding it's occupation of Syrian territory to the outskirts of Aleppo with the intention creating a safe zone.
I wonder if Russia's latest moves aren't preliminary to dealing with Turkey. Erdogan's 'pivot' to "dear friend" Putin doesn't appear to have been genuine.
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
I sense some cheerleading in the comments. We have previously seen optimistic projections that a Russian-led victory is weeks/months away: when Russia entered Syria last year; after CoH; after Erdogan's phony "gift from God" coup.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2016 2:08 utc | 52
#47 TakeMe
Sorry to repeat pretty much your exact same thoughts. It's strangely reassuring to find yourself hardly alone in your paranoia though.
Posted by: Quadriad | Oct 5 2016 2:43 utc | 53
'We will refer to this chapter henceforth as "Hegemony's end"'
Not gonna happen --
1. The MIC's power cannot be overcome.
2. The neocons' dream of neutralizing Russia and China is firmly established and will never die.
3. Israel's lust for more territory (particularly the Lebanese Litani River) will only be stopped by a harsh military defeat on its homeland.
Posted by: chet380 | Oct 5 2016 3:15 utc | 54
@37 sorry - gotcha.
I tend to agree - Russia really made their Syrian adventure more difficult with the COH nonsense. They may have the dilemma of having to go defcon or go home over the next few days, if those psycho military people get their way.
In such a case, it was nice knowing you all and I'll see you on the other side
Posted by: bbbb | Oct 5 2016 3:20 utc | 55
Well, judging from the comments so far, it's a contest here between those who believe that people are fixed and do not change, and those who believe there is a power in the flow of circumstances to change the minds of individuals. We shall see.
Posted by: Grieved | Oct 5 2016 3:27 utc | 57
Anyone else here worried about the potential role of third players here? You have zionists, Israeli right wingers, CIA hardliners, US military nutjobs, CIA ideologues, Qataris and, worse of all, Saudis who would all love to have a fight with Russia.
Some of these groups/people would likely backdown after the first sign of trouble but the Saudis and Qataris would relish and pour gasoline on any fight between Russia and US.
I'm also wondering where are the Iranians? You think they'd stand up for their ally Assad because Iran needs Hezbollah and Hezbollah needs a friendly Syria. I've seen no public statement by the Iranian leadership since the US started to consider direct military force against Syria.
Posted by: Alaric | Oct 5 2016 3:30 utc | 58
Quadriad @50--
Agree 100% the loathing of Outlaw US Empire elite for its citizenry--just reference Clinton and Romney's remarks, gross underfunding of the Veterans Administration, absolute steamrolling of attempts to deter fracking pollution added to Flint, MI and similar community environmental crimes. Any citizen of the Outlaw US Empire that pays federal taxes is a fool as those monies directly support its very longstanding terrorism.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 5 2016 3:36 utc | 59
Stupid is as stupid does. I hoped it was not possible; but the U.S. has just exceeded (astronomically) its own stupidity.
A rabid beast that needs to be put down...
Posted by: V. Arnold | Oct 5 2016 3:51 utc | 60
Re: mauisurfer | Oct 4, 2016 5:58:16 PM | 34
Indeed, Russia basically announced that Obama administration broke a treaty on partial nuclear disarmament. In lay terms, the treaty was an agreement to destroy plutonium from decommissioned warheads, and Obama's folk found it too bothersome, so they announced, without re-negotiations, that they will bury it instead. But was is buried can be digged out and used once more. It continues the tradition of Bush Administration that broke anti-anti-missile treaty, but the immediate motivation is significantly different.
Both immediate and longer term motivations relate to the fact that USA has strong internal opposition, especially within the Democratic party, to create any type of production facility concerned with nuclear power. MOX treaty is a commitment to dispose plutonium in two phases: first, use it to create so-called MOX fuel, second, to consume this fuel, "burn", in nuclear power plant(s). Russian already completed MOX plant and a large nuclear power station that can use that fuel. Bravo, Rosatom. USA completed MOX plant in 70% and suspended the program. The reason given is the cost overruns, and the economic benefits of burying plutonium in New Mexico. The true reason is that nuclear power plant using MOX fuel is nowhere in sight, so it is a bit pointless to finish the work on the fuel. Cost overruns in the fuel plants seem modest: from 5 billions to 7-8 billions. Without tolerating cost overruns of that magnitude, American military would probably had to return to crossbows, and after huge cost overruns (making crossbows that satisfy mil specs), swords and shields, and finally would settle on pitchforks. But Democrats would reject any new nuclear power plant.
Long term motivation may be in the plans to "modernize the nuclear arsenal", which would require plutonium, and getting "fresh plutonium" would require new reactors (current plutonium producing reactors probably remember President Eisenhower), and democrats, while accepting weapon modernization, would reject any new nuclear power plant.
All of that fits the most recent theme of Russian diplomacy: treaties, or agreements with USA have the value of recycled paper from the said treaties. Which could be a penny or a nickel, but well under a dime.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 5 2016 3:55 utc | 61
@ Piotr Berman
Thanks for the comment. In response to your last sentence I thought of an old late 60's, early 70's phrase that maybe fits again.....Brother, can you paradigm?
We could certainly use some new ones.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 5 2016 4:26 utc | 62
If this does escalate and Russia wins I look forward to the day Graham, McCain and Ashton Carter are put on trial for War Crimes
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2016/10/05/us-regierung-diskutiert-offen-ueber-krieg-gegen-russland/
You may need google translate.
Posted by: Ike | Oct 5 2016 5:15 utc | 63
@ Peter AU | Oct 4, 2016 2:21:53 PM | 1
You beat me with the chess game. Albeit, I still want to
add some depth to that specific point.
The game is chess and the winner will rule planet Earth.
The personified United States is a 16 year old, testosterone
saturated male adolescent.
Personified Russia is a very old person that has been playing
chess for all its life and all the lives before since the game
was first 'invented'.
The teenager can't sit still for meager ten seconds. The sage
remains calm. The body language of both players gives it away.
The owner of this place may already have decided to let it all
go. Destroy it all. All other problems solved. When the world
lays wasted in radioactive rubble, it won't matter any longer
how many people can afford health care.
Maybe the owners are getting ready to be cryogenically preserved
for, let's say 50 thousand years?
Posted by: Stillnottheonly1 | Oct 5 2016 5:20 utc | 64
Disappointing debate tidbits - Pence blabbed much save zone and no-fly zone rhetoric.
Can't vote for either of the candidates
Posted by: bbbb | Oct 4, 2016 10:06:26 PM | 51
My political acumen totally vanishes when I look at Pence and Kaine. I can see that one has a blue tie, and one has red, so blue one is Democrat and red is Republican, or the other way around? Otherwise, twins separated at birth. Pence also told some blatant lies in the debate, like “I’m very, very happy to defend Donald Trump”. There were also news that Trump campaign received reinforcements and now Trump has at all timesleast 5 people next to him, with some practiced in martial arts, controlling his use of Twitter and other social media platforms. (A joke! but there was something about a team of 5 for that purpose, perhaps they split to have at least one of them 24/7, without any naive assumptions that the Duckhead can be left to sleep alone and unsupervised.
OTOH, at long last Trump campaign has "positions" on foreign policy that are a good selection from frequently incoherent statements of the Duckhead. Gilbert Doctorov (published in Consortium News) told about his experience as a panelist in a Russian news program in a segment devoted to Clinton Trump debate. Some Russians were very hopeful about Trump, and some quite skeptical.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 5 2016 5:37 utc | 65
Stillnottheonly1 64
A few days ago I was looking at the teenager as a suicide bomber, but looking at Dunceford at the senate hearing? it seems the professional military may not be so keen on participating.
They have been given a glimpse of what Russia holds - the drone that Russia was testing in Syria that "accidentally" drifted into Israeli airspace and could not be hit with two patriots and an air to air. Then the NASA hacking tools put online on the open net. These were both non threatening caution signals. US military is now cautious. Fancy bears and Guccifer just a bit of icing on the cake.
Posted by: Peter AU | Oct 5 2016 6:05 utc | 66
Looking for an expert for graphic and logo design? then you came to the right company that can help your needs..graphic design rockingham
Posted by: graphic designer Rockingham | Oct 5 2016 6:24 utc | 67
@ 67
In the first year or so that ISIS kicked off I noticed Charles Lister (prominent pro jihadist analyst on twitter) was involved with a brand marketing and management company in Qatar. Specialised in video production social media ect. Sort of company that could manage and market the ISIS brand. Had a big dollar looking website. No idea where to find it now as it no longer appears on Lister's Twitter creds.
Posted by: Peter AU | Oct 5 2016 6:43 utc | 68
Fact is, b's estimate of "pampered cowards" is on the dot. The transformation of the much vaunted US army into one filled with candy asses can only bring one thing. Candy.
Posted by: termite | Oct 5 2016 7:04 utc | 69
@4:
Admitted that S. Korea is a dictatorial puppet of America but want to point out that samsung is Korean, not American.
Also, old news (Feb), but have just heard that Russia will be banning Microsoft. Slashdot ref. Windows 10 is an operating system badly wrapping around a spying machine. No surprise then.
Posted by: Lex Lutheran | Oct 5 2016 8:07 utc | 70
"Russia is ready to send several thousands of special forces & other various units officers this month to #Syria."
YES! Now that is what I've been talking about - except I'd like to see TEN THOUSAND more Russian and ANOTHER TEN THOUSAND Iranian troops sent in to take East Aleppo without the necessity of excessive bombing. That would make for a clean victory and defuse all the negative PR about "collateral damage." The urban fighting will be vicious, but with an overwhelming number of professionally trained troops, along with the Syrian Arab Army, and some thousands of Hizballah troops, casualties should be minimized. It might even motivate the AlQaeda troops in East Aleppo to surrender.
And, yes, I think part of this is because Turkey wants to capture Aleppo and Russia is not going to allow that. But the main impetus is that Russia can read the signs and clearly the US is ramping up to impose a "no-fly zone" as well as Turkish "safe haven" to enable the war to grind on as well as directly attack the Syrian military. As I've said for a long time, the goal is to degrade Syria's military so that it cannot be an effective actor in an Iran war. And that can only really be done by the US and NATO, not by insurgents, at least not until the Syrian military collapses - which, now that Russia is supporting it, won't happen. So the US has no choice but to escalate or give up its and Israel's dreams of taking out Syria, Hizballah, and then Iran.
In any event, I'm glad to see Russia upping its game in Syria, something I've been advocating for some time.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 5 2016 8:31 utc | 71
*The Russian Federation interpreted that not as a prediction or warning, but as a direct threat.*
more like a *reminder* !
http://journal-neo.org/2015/11/27/terror-in-mali-an-attack-on-china-and-russia/
Posted by: denk | Oct 5 2016 8:48 utc | 72
Kerry says ,still seeking ''peace'' in Syria while lame duck POTUS is being adviced to bomb bomb !!!.Playing good cop bad cop?..who are the script writers?Syrians had enough ''peace'' from the global sheriff can they spread some of this good stuff to Washington?The ''barrel bomber'' would love to round up the ''moderates'' and hand over to the ''sheriff'' they had 5 yrs hand experience so they would be useful?...do i sense the conglomerate known ''America'' is soon to be found naked and obsolete?It does not condemn the ''moderate'' attack on evil'' Putin's embassy in Syria but seeks a ''un united''nations resolution to bomb the ''barrel bomber''..dang this is comedy if not for the suffering of Syrians!....wake me up in 2017:-)
Posted by: Nur Adlina | Oct 5 2016 9:14 utc | 73
What could possibly be served by the US blocking a resolution on the bombing of the Russian embassy in Damascus?
"Moscow is not happy about Washington's blocking its UN Security Council statement regarding the shelling of the Russian Embassy in Syria's Damascus, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Wednesday.https://sputniknews.com/politics/20161005/1046012512/russia-us-embassy-unsc.html The US government are sick bastards.
Posted by: harrylaw | Oct 5 2016 9:32 utc | 74
Obama will kick can down the road and wont directly attack Syria (other than few "mistaken" bombings here and there), just ramp up supplies to their favorite head-choppers, as well as 24/7 bloody murder screams over "poor civilians".
However, Killary will go for "no fly" zone and invoke R2P. And thats where things will get dark, really dark.
@ Alaric | 58
I've seen no public statement by the Iranian leadership since the US started to consider direct military force against Syria.
Thats exactly how Iranians want it, while Russia is very loud and takes the whole credit for helping Syria, in reality Iran helps as much if not more than Russia. Tens of thousands soldiers, Soleimani (no introduction necessary), all the best military advisers and generals (how many high ranking generals returned in the body bags? I lost count), billions in credit, military/food/oil supplies, etc.
Why Iranians prefer very low key? They dont want to rock the boat of fragile nuke agreement (which will probably go under anyway if Killary gets elected), and dont want to increase rabid paranoia of PGC monarchies, etc. Journalists in Syria even complain Iranians refuse to give an interview.
Posted by: Harry | Oct 5 2016 9:46 utc | 75
I notice that b is investigating the White Helmets.
.@MaxBlumenthal What is your evidence that #WhiteHelmets really rescue ppl - can't trust their claims. 95+% of pics/vids seem likely staged
I do not have proof for or against White Helmets actually rescuing people, but I have evidence of White Helmets being involved in hoaxes and forgery.
See Hayan missile massacre, August 12, 2016
The White Helmets are rescuing people that have clearly been dead for at least a day. The bodies were dumped at the site, most likely killed in some al-Nusra / "moderate" massacre. Here is what I wrote earlier:
Al-QAEDA MASSACRE SOLD AS WHITE HELMETS RESCUEThe Qraitem family was kidnapped by al-Nusra Front around July 29th. The three adult men were executed immediately. Four adult women and eight children were killed around August 10th, their bodies dumped somewhere to be eaten by dogs.
Two days later these same 12 bodies were reused by the #WhiteHelmets (SCD), al-Nusra's Nato-funded hoax and propaganda arm as props in their latest production of massacre porn. The rotten bodies are allegedly "found" on the roadside, near what may be a bomb crater. Nusra actors in white helmets and SCD uniform run frantically in front of the cameras, aimlessly carrying around a live and a dead baby.
The video material is used in the propaganda to #SaveAleppo for al-Qaeda. Allegedly these people were ruthlessly killed by a Russian bomb.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 5 2016 11:09 utc | 76
Treat, no trick:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/pentagon-fake-terrorist-videos/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/overthrowing-the-syrian-government-a-joint-criminal-enterprise/5549294
Posted by: xyz | Oct 5 2016 12:34 utc | 77
@55, bbbb
I tend to agree - Russia really made their Syrian adventure more difficult with the COH nonsense
1. "The forms must be obeyed"(c). Frank Herbert, Dune.
2. Personal feelings and emotions do not come into the complex calculus of big power politics. It is good to assume that some people simply know more (much more) than us, who exercise couch strategy and operational art.
Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Oct 5 2016 12:50 utc | 78
Richard Steven Hack | Oct 5, 2016 4:31:46 AM | 71
YES! Now that is what I've been talking about - except I'd like to see TEN THOUSAND more Russian and ANOTHER TEN THOUSAND Iranian troops sent in to take East Aleppo without the necessity of excessive bombing.
Urban warfare against a tenacious well-dug in enemy is never clean even when the attacking force is claimed to have little regard for casualties. Just look at Stalingrad or Berlin. And where the attacking force does have regard for its casualties, the civilians suffer more. For instance, Fallujah in 2004. So those twenty thousand Russian and Iranian soldiers would probably not be enough and they would suffer heavy casualties.
Since many of the civilians in Eat Aleppo appear to be either the families of the terrorists or their camp followers and chose to be there. I don't see why Russians or Iranians should die to preserve their lives.
e The rest of the civilians are being used as human shields by the terrorists because when the Syrian government opened evacuation corridors into East Aleppo, the terrorists ("protectors of the people" according to the west), murdered those who tried to escape!
A post at the Angry Arab presents a different view of Russian involvement in Syria:
From Alfred: "An acquaintance of mine who found out that I was born in Aleppo, Syria made a comment to me about how the Russians are killing many civilians and must be really hated "in that part of the world". I said Yes, the Russians have killed a couple thousand civilians in their military intervention. But, our American government have killed hundreds of thousands of civilians "in that part of the world". He looked confused and shocked that I said something like that and did not reply."
If you want to suggest that other people should die as you find urban warfare unpalatable, perhaps you should volunteer to join them. In the meantime, the United States should shut up because what lies ahead in Mosul will be just as brutal if not more so even if someone can persuade the Gulfies to stop funding ISIS which might strip the mercenaries away from the ideological fighters.
Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 5 2016 12:59 utc | 79
Posted by: Castellio | Oct 4, 2016 7:35:43 PM | 40
Thank You , IMO very well said and absolutely realistic
Posted by: kooshy | Oct 5 2016 13:19 utc | 80
Posted by: Castellio | Oct 4, 2016 7:35:43 PM | 40
Very well and absolutely correct, IMO, thank you
Posted by: kooshy | Oct 5 2016 13:21 utc | 81
...... and the war rhetoric gets ratcheted up.
US Claims Right To Defend Itself Against Russian Air Defense Systems In Syria
Posted by: woogs | Oct 5 2016 13:33 utc | 82
Obama bomb iraqi forces, 20 dead, Syria isnt enough for this warlover?!
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/10/05/487722/USled-airs-strike-Iraq-tribal-fighters-Mosul-Qayyarah
Posted by: Rebelz | Oct 5 2016 13:38 utc | 83
As I never watch these things,my wife did (and not a Trumper like me)and said Pence destroyed Kaine,who came across like an idiot.Another hit on the Hell bitches judgement.
Todays papers are saying the same meme as some here,that Pence said different than Trump.
Trump is in charge,and Pence a good soldier,and I think some here are looking for perfection which will never ever happen.
Posted by: dahoit | Oct 5 2016 13:44 utc | 84
This policy of brinkmanship is far from over in Syria as long as the US led NATO can fill the ranks of their proxy forces, fund and supply them with ever more advanced military hardware. Russia it seems is going to play the same game of using her special forces as human shields to protect the SAA from errant NATO air attacks It seems the two superpowers fighting in Syria, mainly through their associates are still very intelligently avoiding directly striking at each others personnel but will instead arm their respective associates with ever more advanced equipment to this end. So the escalation continues to spiral. One wonders at the gall of the American hegemon. The Americans are showing the world their true face and seem not embarrassed in the slightest by their bald face aggression, to preserve and expand their NWO hegemonic plannings, such is the hubris of those in command and those behind the scenes oligarchs with their 'think tanks' giving orders to these commander and politicians in the west. Truly an ugly chapter in the human experience instituted by some very ugly personalities at the apex of western society. Imperialism it seems never dies. It just shifts to the next power center.
How's this for full-retard logic? The US is announcing in advance that it is considering cruise missile attacks on Syrian airfields, which it will promptly deny afterward.
The options under consideration, which remain classified, include bombing Syrian air force runways using cruise missiles and other long-range weapons fired from coalition planes and ships, an administration official who is part of the discussions told me. One proposed way to get around the White House’s long-standing objection to striking the Assad regime without a U.N. Security Council resolution would be to carry out the strikes covertly and without public acknowledgment, the official said.Posted by: woogs | Oct 5 2016 13:51 utc | 86
The only positive I can find in the month up to the US election is that Russia just took over the chair of the UNSC starting on October 3rd. This does clip Samantha Powers wings a little.
Posted by: Krollchem | Oct 5 2016 14:04 utc | 87
thing is, the Likudniks/Jews who are pulling the strings on Obama and who infest State could be perfectly happy with years of this.
I urge you all to actually read Shahak's translation of Oded Yinon's strategy, then read 'a clean break' by perle et al then conpare with the Americanized version of the same thing 'rebuilding america's defenses' also written by Jewish Likudnik Zios. They are pulling the strings the most, though there are also other militarists eager for war of course.
Posted by: Florin Neamtu | Oct 5 2016 14:48 utc | 88
Who knows whats the scoop with the Kuznetsov and upcoming air group? When? How many?
Posted by: Lozion | Oct 5 2016 15:08 utc | 89
h 26.
Not reported and only a handful in the audience versus VP debates viewership. Sadness.
Funny at 3:50 when the guy (Al) says there is a large vocal anti-war that exists in the US. Really? I haven't heard a peep since early 2000s. The protesters who used to hang out at Airport and Whitesburg roads here in Huntsville (to hit defense contractors returning to nice homes) stopped protesting after Obama took office. Curious that, ay?
But the video reports the reality the rest of our media does not - a dirty job but someone has to do it. And they also go after the media for their failure.
Posted by: Curtis | Oct 5 2016 15:13 utc | 90
@84, woogs
How's this for full-retard logic?
There is a logic, and quite understandable one, behind all that. Again, US is in departure mode from uni-polarity. It sustained defeat in Ukraine, it already lost in Syria and taking Aleppo (which is in a process) will basically formalize this defeat. Hence hysteria and desperation on US part because Syrian outcomes accelerate US decline from being self-proclaimed hyper-power to just another big power. So, it is a logic all right.
Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Oct 5 2016 15:17 utc | 91
@Grieved no. 39
I suspect it would take a major military disaster, something on the order of discovering that an adversary has overwhelming weapons superiority, or an economic collapse to shut up the neocons, and I don't see either of those on the immediate horizon.
As far as any lessons of the world learned by the US population, my take is that the majority of US citizens would be perfectly happy for their government to withdraw as so-called "policeman" to the world.
Posted by: sleepy | Oct 5 2016 15:17 utc | 92
@89 Some additional logic that might appeal to some minds.....when dealing with bad guys there's no need to use the rule book.
Posted by: dh | Oct 5 2016 15:24 utc | 93
As the DANCING JEWS SAID on 911 "the JEWS are not your problem the arabs are your problem" WRONG the JEWS are the ENEMY of civilization world wide,and have been for YEARS and YEARS .
WAR against the Isralies and their century old push for a GREATER Israel aka ZION will be the best thing that has ever happened, the total destruction of the rogue state of Israel will usher in a 1000 years of PEACE ON EARTH and PROSPERITY FOR ALL HUMANS not just the Jews anymore.
Yes the USA is a proxy state of Israel NOT the other way around with Israel as a state of the USA or NATO, BUT WAIT the USA is scared to death of Russia and will not come to the aid of the Isralies at need.
The civilized world is anit-semetic and well should be proud of the title.
Posted by: NobodysaysBOO | Oct 5 2016 15:28 utc | 94
If US strikes Syria as recent threat opines....they could tumble Syria's Airforce.
They probably miss killing the pilots.
Russia could provide newer Gen aircraft to Syria in the future.
Hopefully US does not succeed in this next hyp/game turn.
If they get away with it.....Iran and Russia will have to consider capitulate
To the Zionist demand.
Empire wins....and Russia never fired a single S400.
Posted by: Brad | Oct 5 2016 15:50 utc | 95
troll level has gone up at moa.. i doubt these bozos will be participating in the fundraiser either..
Posted by: james | Oct 5 2016 15:52 utc | 96
Fort Russ has a translation of Rostislav Ishchenko: RAISING THE STAKES: Putin slams US nuke threat with ultimatum
Garish headline, but actually it's true to the article. Ishchenko points out that Putin didn't actually terminate the plutonium agreement. He halted it, and gave terms to the US for restarting it again. The terms constitute an ultimatum.
"Let’s look at these conditions: (1) the US must lift all sanctions against Russia; (1) compensation should be paid not only for the losses from American sanctions, but also for the losses incurred by Russian counter-sanctions; (3) the Magnitsky Act should be repealed; (4) the US’ military presence in Eastern Europe should be sharply reduced; and (5) the US should abandon its policy of confrontation with Moscow. Only one word fits in determining the essence of Putin’s demands: “ultimatum.”"As far as a I remember, the last time that Washington was given an ultimatum was by the United Kingdom over the Trent vessel incident. And that was in 1861 during the American Civil War.
[...]
"This demand essentially means complete and unconditional surrender in the hybrid war which Washington does not consider to be irreversibly lost. And there’s still all those indemnities payments and reparations."Something similar was demanded from the US by the British Crown before the end of the war for independence, when the Americans were still King George III’s rebellious subjects. For the last 100 years no one has even imagined talking with Washington in such a tone."
Ishchenko is always worth reading, This article I think describes the moment we live in, and shows something that all this talk of proxy war and hybrid methodologies is trying to articulate, but which was hard to see.
The US has threatened nuclear war. Russia has responded at the level of global confrontation. But not with war. Instead with a completely asymmetrical response. This was the brilliance many people had hoped to see from Russia. Here it is. There will be MUCH more to come. It will be hard to notice at times. Russia is on the path of invention now, creating new ways to win this war.
Russia is the peacemaker. You don't win wars by having a few of your soldiers alive after all theirs are dead. You truly win wars by creating peace. This is how it's done.
Posted by: Grieved | Oct 5 2016 16:55 utc | 97
I keep screwing up those Fort Russ links - sorry:
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/10/raising-stakes-putin-slams-us-nuke.html
Posted by: Grieved | Oct 5 2016 16:56 utc | 98
@93 US (Israeli?) planners possibly believe that they can get away with a bullying limited engagement. I was sensing the same thing with the South China Sea dispute.
@89 I guess I can see why Russia did the COH, but it's inviting in USA, who can currently afford to be as bullying as 'she' wants to be, in the hopes of roping 'her' into conformity with International Law. Well again, I think Washington planners (maybe Israel as well?) don't appreciate the nuances of Russia's message.
Posted by: bbbb | Oct 5 2016 17:02 utc | 99
94
i agree james this place is full of nazi and anti semites you are going to have to sort this out.
we cannot allow these beasts to blame israel and crazy talk of oded yinon
israel clearly needs more than the 48 billion the americans have promised it is clear now that putin has gone insane.
israel needs germany,the uk,france,the usa and turkey to give putin and assad an ultimatum we cannot allow any more innocent jews to be killed for the sake of the bllod lust of these savages.
a strong israel means a strong world family free and safe for everyone.
sacrifice now will mean safety us jewish folks in the future.
have a word james and get the site de nazi fied and cleansed old boy
many thanks
Posted by: menechem golani | Oct 5 2016 17:03 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
It has, in my estimate, a very high chance to win that bet
US trying to bluff the bear? They lost at chess and they'll lose at poker.
Posted by: Peter AU | Oct 4 2016 18:21 utc | 1