Deir Ezzor Attack Enables The "Salafist Principality" As Foreseen In The 2012 DIA Analysis
Two recent attacks against the Syrian Arab Army in east-Syria point to a U.S. plan to eliminate all Syrian government presence east of Palmyra. This would enable the U.S. and its allies to create a "Sunni entity" in east-Syria and west-Iraq which would be a permanent thorn in side of Syria and its allies.
A 2012 analysis by the Defense Intelligence Agency said:
THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A DECLARED OR UNDECLARED SALAFIST PRINCIPALITY IN EASTERN SYRIA (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITION WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME ...
Note that the described plan mentions exactly two cities - Hasakah and Deir Ezzor.
On August 18 Kurdish YPK units suddenly attacked Syrian government positions in the center of Hasakah in the north-east of Syria. Before this incident the relations between the two entities had been decent despite some earlier, small clashes. The attacking Kurds were under advice from U.S. special operators. When the Syrian air force intervened the U.S. threatened to down its planes. The Syrian forces had to eventually retreat from populated areas in Hasakah and are now confined to an airport next to the city. They are cut of from supplies and will eventually have to give up.
(For the Kurds these attacks proved to be a political catastrophe. Not only did they lose all support from the Syrian government and Russian side, but Turkey used these clashes to justify its invasion into Syria. This ended the Kurdish national dream of a continues area from Iraq to the Mediterranean.)
On Saturday U.S. airplanes attacked the most important Syrian government position in Deir Ezzor. Nearly a hundred Syrian soldiers were killed and most of the heavy equipment the Deir Ezzor garrison had left was destroyed. Immediately after the attack fighters of the Islamic State occupied the bombed out government positions. These Islamic States fighters now own the heights above the Deir Ezzor airport. A day later the Islamic State shot down a Syrian government plane near Deir Ezzor.
The city and its 150,000+ inhabitants are surrounded by the Islamic State. They had been supplied from Damascus by nightly flights to the airport. As the Islamic State now has fire-control over the airport as well as anti-air weapons those supply flights are no longer possible. The U.S. air attack practically closed down the Syrian government ability to supply the city. If this situation continues the city will fall to the Islamic State.
The U.S. plan is to eventually take Raqqa by using Turkish or Kurdish proxies. It also plans to let the Iraqi army retake Mosul in Iraq. The only major city in Islamic State territory left between those two is Deir Ezzor. Should IS be able to take it away from the isolated Syrian army garrison it has at least a decent base to survive. (Conveniently there are also rich oil wells nearby.) No one, but the hampered Syrian state, would have an immediate interest to remove it from there.
North of that entity would be a Kurdish area with no ambition to expand south. North-west of the Deir Ezzor entity would be the friendly Turkish controlled "Safe Zone" that Erdogan plans to create.
The two recent moves by U.S. forces in east-Syria are consistent with the plan for a "Sunni entity" or "Salafist principality" described in the 2012 DIA document. Such an entity blocks the land connection of the "Shia crescent" which connects Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. This is the "isolation" of Syria foreseen in the DIA analysis. A "Sunni entity" in east-Syria also provides a path for the gas pipeline from Qatar via Turkey to Europe. The Syrian government had rejected the construction of such a line which goes against the fundamental interests of its ally Russia.
At first glance this U.S. policy seems to be shortsighted, There is no way the envisioned "Sunni entity" would ever become stable. Instead it would continue to be a source of terrorism which would hit far beyond the borders of Syria and the surrounding states. But it is exactly the instability of this construct that will allow for further U.S. presence in the area. A source of insecurity that can be activated, or shut down, whenever convenient.
Posted by b on September 20, 2016 at 16:25 UTC | Permalink
next page »The news is that the Syrian army, backed by Russian air support has reclaimed the area lost to ISIS after the attack on Deir Ezzor.
Posted by: hay | Sep 20 2016 17:05 utc | 2
i agree with james in this regard Hasakah and Deir Ezzor is not enough for future israel growth.
the people of syria must be moved to europe george soros is providing hundreds of millions so is germany this is still not enough.
for for the sake of oded yinon and the innocent of israel we need space all of syria.
time an time again assad has proven he does not care for these sacred lands israel sells citrus all over the world to are partners syria refused to export we will make the finest quality fruits for your super markardo with full chabad certificates.
let israel breath you dumb goy
Posted by: menechem golani | Sep 20 2016 17:06 utc | 3
SYRIAN ARMY SEIZES MOST OF TURDAH MOUNTAIN FROM ISIS DESPITE US AIR STRIKES AGAINST GOVERNMENT FORCES.
Posted by: hay | Sep 20 2016 17:15 utc | 5
More proof, that, "regime change uber alles", is the only policy the Empire will accept, with regards to Syria.
Posted by: ben | Sep 20 2016 17:20 utc | 6
Don't know who prioritizes the posts here, but . . . e'hem, the smoke is still clearing from an "airstrike" on a humanitarian aid convoy west of Aleppo. That might be newsworthy. Just sayin'.
At the same time the (mostly) UK MSM is reporting this, they are also bitching b/c Assad has not let any aid trucks into Syria. At the same time RuF is, of course, getting blamed for the airstrke and denying that it has anything to do with it.
Sounds like an obvious USG diversionary tactic to take the heat off of the way its own airstrikes are supporting Da'esh.
Hello . . . anyone home here?
So what is the current status of these heights? Who controls them?
B's post shows that things are coming full circle. We know that Syria had just brought in over 1,000 fresh troops. Something is obviously 'up' there.
What's next?
Posted by: woogs | Sep 20 2016 17:26 utc | 8
@ & Denis
Don't know who prioritizes the posts here,
The answer:
The owner of MOA: b and that's his prerogative :-)
Posted by: Yul | Sep 20 2016 17:29 utc | 9
The aid convoy issue seems to be a propaganda tool mostly. Not that the convoy wasn't attacked by somebody ..
Is it bigger than the renewed terrorist offensive in Aleppo? Probably not, IMO.
Deir ez-Zor is not a one and done deal, either. It is of strategic importance and is ongoing, regardless of lack of prior attention to it.
B is doing an excellent job here (thanks, b!). Lots of balls are in the air at once. Hard to say just what is the priority at any given time.
Posted by: woogs | Sep 20 2016 17:35 utc | 10
A pessimistic but probably quite accurate assessment. I think that beyond Palmyra, Russia doesn't really care what goes into who's hand and that in an unstable "Salafist principality" it would be rather difficult to build a reliable pipeline from Qatar to Turkey which would harm Russia's economic interests. It's also impossible for Russia to protect the whole of Syria with that many adversaries and that few incentives. It looks like Iran could do more but no sane person is waiting for a full blown WWIII.
Posted by: keli | Sep 20 2016 17:49 utc | 11
Some of you may have missed this. It's important... "under Damascus"
Kurdish-controlled areas declare federation in Syria's north – media reports Published time: 17 Mar, 2016 11:14
Speaking to RT Arabic, Nassan said that the proposal of federation has existed since the start of the Syrian conflict in 2011.
© Rodi SaidKurds want lands they control in Syria to become federation "under Damascus" “Syria's Kurds have a long history of opposition and a long history of struggle for the legitimate rights of their people in this country,” Nassan said, explaining that the nationalist struggle has evolved into a more “developed” form of fighting for equal rights in general.
Nassan stressed, however, that federalization does not mean the Kurdish people will go down the "path of separatism."
“Therefore, I believe that the international players, primarily Russia and the United States will support this approach and advocate for its implementation,” he said....
..Against the constitution'
A source within the Foreign and Expatriates Ministry has warned against any attempt to undermine Syria's unity and territorial integrity, SANA reported.
“Raising the issue of a federation or that of federalization would affect the territorial integrity of Syria, which goes against the constitution, the national concepts and international resolutions,” the source told the media outlet.
“Any declaration to that effect would be without any legal value and void of any legal, political, social or economic effect as long as it does not reflect the will of the entire Syrian people with all their political leanings and social spectra, who are all committed to the national unity and territorial integrity of their country,” he added.
https://www.rt.com/news/335951-kurds-federal-system-syria/
Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 20 2016 17:55 utc | 12
@Denis #7:
Just emphasizing what woogs said here.
Deir Ez Zor is potential Casus Belli material. The UN convoy strike has unknown perpetrators so far.
Posted by: wwinsti | Sep 20 2016 18:01 utc | 13
When Russia threw its hat in the ring at the 2015 UNGA meet and greet, it was unknown what risks the US was willing to take to achieve its aims. The Deir Ezzor attack has seriously upped the anti. With this the risk seems higher that the US is willing to go to hot war with Russia to achieve its aims, or push Russia to a point where it must respond.
Posted by: Peter AU | Sep 20 2016 18:05 utc | 14
Sorrie, #12 cut & paste got screwed up. Please go to RT News website for full story.
https://www.rt.com/news/335951-kurds-federal-system-syria/
However, a worthy OT News many may have missed. Remember Medea Benjamin she seem to be another NeoCon..? Read the article but more important read the only comment posted..
http://www.codepink.org/tonight_white_helmets_of_syria
TONIGHT: WHITE HELMETS OF SYRIA
Natylie Baldwin commented 2 days ago
I don’t understand how the members of Code Pink, who are normally so up on Washington’s propaganda with respect to war, is allowing itself to be snookered about the White Helmets, which is not an independent rescue organization, but is a front group that is funded and propped up by Washington. White Helmets only operates in areas that are controlled by the “rebels”. Wouldn’t an independent rescue organization operate wherever there are civilian victims and not just favor one side? ......
Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 20 2016 18:11 utc | 15
@15 Jack Smith,
Thanks - completely shocked by Code Pink's stance on the White Helmets.
Posted by: spudski | Sep 20 2016 18:19 utc | 16
Peter AU @14
"With this the risk seems higher that the US is willing to go to hot war with Russia to achieve its aims, or push Russia to a point where it must respond."
Follow the money
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/audit-reveals-pentagon-6-5-trillion/
Also consider this VT Gordon Duff quote
"I’d like to say there was a strategy of oil in the Middle East, except the world’s glut with oil. Gasoline is well under two dollars a gallon here in the United States. It’s not about any of that. It’s about war for the purpose of war, nothing but war. It’s a game to these people. And these people obviously control the United States government. We have no questions about that."
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/09/20/press-tv-interview-with-gordon-duff/
Posted by: ALberto | Sep 20 2016 18:33 utc | 17
b if you will indulge me I would like to expand my previous Gordon Duff quote comment
Duff:" While the bombing was still going on, I received calls from two Syrian ministers. [They] called me and asked me what was going on and if the United States had lost their minds? They didn’t believe it. They don’t have love for the United States, but they didn’t think we were insane.
The US has shown a willingness to sacrifice any credibility of any kind. This is an election year, an election like non we’ve ever seen in the US. We have elections like they have nowhere else: rigged, insane, violent. American elections are insanity.
I’d like to say there was a strategy of oil in the Middle East, except the world’s glut with oil. Gasoline is well under two dollars a gallon here in the United States. It’s not about any of that. It’s about war for the purpose of war, nothing but war. It’s a game to these people. And these people obviously control the United States government. We have no questions about that."
ibid
Posted by: ALberto | Sep 20 2016 18:36 utc | 18
This whole mess is well beyond my tech rating. Yet, it seems to me that there is a schizophrenic player in the game that makes the whole thing bizarre. We know that the US CIA and the US Pentagon often act at cross purposes. We also know that the Empire is hovering on the edge of an election ... one which has rendered their POTUS as a very lame duck. In fact, it seems that he is floundering. What may be happening is that the POTUS is really no longer in actual control ... that perhaps the CIA and the Pentagon are acting essentially on their own. That they have separate agendas, determined primarily by their desire for increased control within the US system, might be one of the reasons reason has flown out the window. The hegemon is faltering ... not a good thing ... and what makes the whole thing truly scary is that the results of the US election will put a self-aggrandizing idiot in control ... at least ostensibly ... of the US machine for chaos.
Fine kettle of fish, that?
Posted by: rg the lg | Sep 20 2016 18:37 utc | 19
Well, b, your analysis would be cause for gloom if we thought any of it would happen. I don't, personally, but many others here can give far better military reasons than I can to explain why Syria will triumph, is triumphing, over all these things.
What's most useful to me about your article is the playbook it portrays so well. It's the old US plan, but nobody in Langley or Tel Aviv has thought to update it to account for new factors in play. Here's a still enduring and greatly revived Syria army, a Hezbollah that can kick Israel's ass and conceivably even destroy her, and a Russia enforcing its defense agreement with Syria, and now inhabiting its airbase in perpetuity.
The key point is that the US has lost the power to think new thoughts. Corruption does this. The US operates mindlessly following its old intentions, and thinks of nothing new. Even its treachery is played out with all the old faces - the Observatory in London, the White Helmets, stock footage, the same old actors and scripts.
And far from being a mystery to Russia, the US is actually a pre-scripted gift to its planners and generals. What the US will do is known in advance. The only thing unknown is if the US can change, and what it takes to achieve this. Russia keeps testing this. If it proves possible, Russia won't be caught by surprise. But all the while it doesn't change, its actions are predictable. This alone says why the scenario dreamed of in the DIA analysis will fail.
Posted by: Grieved | Sep 20 2016 18:51 utc | 20
@15 Jack
It's not only the likes of codepink being targeted with this propaganda, but I was on greenpeace's facebook page earlier and they are pushing the netflix white helmet 'heroes' shite as well. Full spectrum NGO's - perish the thought - you'd think Vanessa Beeley was in a different universe, ffs, http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/09/20/exclusive-aleppo-media-centre-funded-by-french-foreign-office-eu-and-us/
Regards Fred
Posted by: fredjc | Sep 20 2016 18:54 utc | 21
Reading between the lines the stuff in the ceasefire agreement between Russia and the US is probably being kept secret because it exposes the true motives of the US as stated in this article. It is at US insistence that it is kept secret.
In other news: Desperate to deflect criticism of its actions in Syria the US sets up another patsy in New York and bombs a dumpster as well as accusing Russia of striking a UN convoy. If it wasn't for websites like this I would have lost all faith in the American people
Posted by: Ike | Sep 20 2016 18:57 utc | 22
Russia says the USA is keeping the terms secret to hide the fact that the USA was not keeping their end of the bargain.... whatever that end consisted of.
I suspect there's also info in there that various "coalition" partners and other regional players (hello Kurds, hello Mr. Erdogan) might find "troubling" and then there's the French and the EU/migrant camp nations, etc.
I don't think that Russia is "bluffing" ... I think the USA/Kerry/Obama signed a document that the Pentagon then subverted (likely deliberately)... and Team Obama now adds the American people to all of the above parties who need to be kept in the dark.
(and the American people do not give a f*CK)
Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Sep 20 2016 19:08 utc | 23
@20, Grieved
The key point is that the US has lost the power to think new thoughts. Corruption does this. The US operates mindlessly following its old intentions, and thinks of nothing new.
In any conflict-driven activity from bargaining on a used car lot to diplomacy through actual warfare, the frequency of Boyd's OODA Loops (Observe, Orient, Decide and Act) decides the outcome between peer-to-peer or peer-to-near-peer sides. The higher is the frequency of OODA Loop the higher are the chances of winning in a conflict. This is in a nutshell. Truth is, US, if to discard an explicit disintegration of US power "elites" and Obama being an incompetent coward, has the problem with the first "O"--Observe. It simply can not (why--is a separate issue) and as such jeopardizes for itself the rest of the loop. The last 15+ year military-political record is a living proof of that. US lives through repeating Chalabi moment (Loop?) constantly, doing so it also exposes itself as irrational but, in the same time, very predictable actor. In can only act and only for one reason--ANY exhibition of even slightest "weakness", as it is perceived among MOST US "elites" does bear a very real threat to the US across the whole spectrum of its activity which is only based on power options and false narratives. US already lost in Syria and is in zugzwang--no good options. Add here also another thing which is usually omitted--not enough resources.
Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Sep 20 2016 19:11 utc | 25
thanks b, and to grieved and smoothie too..
the usa confirms it's support for isis in the attack on the syrian army hilltop overlooking deir ezzor.. they confirm a continuation of working with their sponsors saudi arabia, israel and etc in the destabilization of syria for the intended results.. that the usa is not the usa anymore does matter, especially to those who haven't caught up with the storyline here..
the humanitarian aid convoy destruction - who would do that and why? another distraction immediately following the attack at deir ezzor doesn't change anything here... forget following the msm, or idiot posters here... events are picking up here time wise..
Posted by: james | Sep 20 2016 19:18 utc | 26
@22, Ike
Reading between the lines the stuff in the ceasefire agreement between Russia and the US is probably being kept secret because it exposes the true motives of the US as stated in this article. It is at US insistence that it is kept secret.
It is not just that, albeit that too, the very notion of US "cooperating" on largely Russian terms, including Russia asking for appropriate US resources to be deployed, is seen by most in US "elites" as utter humiliation. It is never one thing, it is always a number, a combination of factors which influence decisions. US already DIDN'T get its way in Syria. Political objectives of Syrian War have not been achieved, hence defeat--now it is only "what could be salvaged". Russia IS already in Syria, she does have a permanent base there, the one where force could be increased in the short order. US, for those who want to know, is already exposed, completely. In fact, the more lies--the more it becomes obvious. As I said above--it is zugzwang, each next step is worse than the previous one. Now add here elections and a much larger play in Europe (Ukraine) and Asia and the picture is very clear.
Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Sep 20 2016 19:29 utc | 27
rg the lg @19:
well, it's POTUS that stands up in front of the cameras and, in theory, reports to congress, etc. if the DOD or CIA has "taken over" the USG, the elected leaders & civilian appointees are complicit, if only by their silence. and the "if they say anything they are dead men/women" is no kind of argument, except to confirm that they are in the positions they are in precisely b/c they will never "say anything," and thus complicit. the civilians haven't "lost" control so much as knowingly handed it over or sold it.
Posted by: jason | Sep 20 2016 19:42 utc | 28
The status of Mt. Tadmor/Tadhmor is differently described in different web sites, but there was a consensus that RuAF dropped a lot of stuff on black parachutes, presumed to be ammunition and one can bet that there will be a high priority on undoing the damage. I recall that ISIS was in control of that mountain few times before, and dogged defense of Deir Ez-Zor made the commander, Gen. Zahreddine, quite famous.
Apparently, he is from a celebrated Druze family, and now his brother was photographed as leading a contingent of Druze fighters from Jabal Druze to Golan, where a Druze town is under (IDF supported) Jihadi attack.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 20 2016 19:44 utc | 29
ot - denis and anyone else interested.. ssr has a thread up discussing what happened to the red cresent convoy where you get the gist in the comment section..
Posted by: james | Sep 20 2016 19:44 utc | 30
@11, bbbb
Russia could at the very least defend that outpost
Only Russian military on the ground (and General Staff) know what that "at the very least" is. Russia is not in Syria to fight this war for Syrians, she is there for a host of reasons, including for humanitarian ones, among many. Russia ensured survival of Assad and, in general, secular and real moderate forces. Russian Air-Space Forces and Forces of Special Operations pay their dues in Syria daily. This whole current Syrian situation (or whatever definition one may want to use) traces easily to Russian interference in this conflict. If not for that interference we possibly would be talking about the end of Syria and establishment of Caliphate and US "no fly zone".
Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Sep 20 2016 19:50 utc | 31
The civilians still have the legal power to order the military and CIA around. If they don't do so, it's because they choose not to do so.
Would the military and CIA really launch a coup if the president didn't follow their orders? Would they dare to resort to murdering civilian leaders? I very much doubt if they would do any such thing, and, if they did, they would thereby diminish the power of the U.S. by a factor of, I would estimate, 10.
Posted by: lysias | Sep 20 2016 19:54 utc | 32
Greenpeace, Human Rights Watch, now Code Pink all apparently subverted by the CIA. Someone coined the descriptive term "Veal Pen Organizations".
Sidelined, Penned In, waiting to be slaughtered. Neutered. Co-opted. They collect money from individuals and from CIA front groups such as USAID, The Ford Foundation, Carnegie Mellon, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, etc.
Paid to stay in business to get nothing accomplished, to brook no opposition; and often to do work which is diametrically opposed to the ideals they promote.
Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 20 2016 19:57 utc | 33
Re Jason @28
The issue really is whether or not the CIA, Pentagon, et al, are still taking orders from POTUS. See what Mike Whitney writes at http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/09/20/rogue-mission-did-the-pentagon-bomb-syrian-army-to-kill-ceasefire-deal/
On Tuesday at the Pentagon, officials would not even agree that if a cessation of violence in Syria held for seven days — the initial part of the deal — the Defense Department would put in place its part of the agreement on the eighth day…
“I’m not saying yes or no,” Lt. Gen. Jeffrey L. Harrigian, commander of the United States Air Forces Central Command, told reporters on a video conference call. “It would be premature to say that we’re going to jump right into it.” (“Details of Syria Pact Widen Rift Between John Kerry and Pentagon“, New York Times)
Think about that for a minute: Lt. General Harrigian appears to be saying that he may not follow an order from the Commander in Chief if it’s not to his liking. When exactly did military leaders start to believe that orders are optional or that the DOD had a role to play in policymaking?
Posted by: Perimetr | Sep 20 2016 20:04 utc | 34
Would the military and CIA really launch a coup if the president didn't follow their orders? Would they dare to resort to murdering civilian leaders? I very much doubt if they would do any such thing, and, if they did, they would thereby diminish the power of the U.S. by a factor of, I would estimate, 10.
The CIA gets its puppet elected. The puppet dances to the CIA tune. Or something bad happens to the puppet. The puppet knows this.
Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 20 2016 20:05 utc | 35
[email protected], [email protected] - My two cents worth at SouthFront regarding the claimed Russian UN convoy bombing. I'm actually sort of disappointed - these guys are not even trying to be realistic in their lies anymore. I miss the good ol' Rita Katz days - she was usually pretty thorough. Well, except for that time the scary ISIS head-choppers were wearing British SAS-issue dessert boots in her video.
Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 20 2016 20:06 utc | 36
OK, all of you who don't see any significance in Assad, or Putin, or Obama or who-the-fuck-ever taking out a Red Crescent humanitarian aid convoy west of Aleppo w/ an airstrke and committing an indefensible war crime . . . you must be right b/c except for RT the "incident" has been pretty much scrubbed from the internet.
Never happened; story's over.
Everybody can go back to Brad and Angelina now.
.................
I like Ike @22, but I don't see how this site has anything to do with having faith in the American people. b isn't American, last I heard. And I'll tell you something: any Americans who may be commenting here are definitely not representative of Americans in general. Most Americans wouldn't have the wherewithal to follow MoA threads, much less join them. They can barely understand the abecedarian crap HuffPo serves them.
So now that some Russian leadership has said that the US appears to be clearly supporting Isis, no more talks/deals/BS CoH between the 2 ?
Has to be doesn't it. How can the Russians continue supporting Isis supporters that they admit the US is ?
Russia acknowledges the US is directly supporting Isis, so then any future talks with the evil US Empire is only a 2nd° of separation between Russia supporting Isis themselves. Even if the extent is self-defeating self duplicity.
Or do talks still mean that when the US slaughters Syrian soldiers that the Russians get to say 'please stop' because they're still in communication ? Just like in Deir Ezzor.
Posted by: tom | Sep 20 2016 20:17 utc | 38
@36 paveway.. thanks and totally agree with your overview on it all!
Posted by: james | Sep 20 2016 20:17 utc | 39
Firstly, I think the analysis is referring to the two Governorates not the cities. These two Governorates make up eastern Syria. A much bigger land mass.
Grieved @ 20. I also believe that Syria will prevail. Russia works in a measured way, this is very frustrating for most people. As an American living overseas I was horrified at the thought of a Test Cricket match played over 5 days! And it could end in a draw! WTF? Once I got to know the game I found it fascinating because it has to be played at so many levels simultaneously and with changing conditions that have to be adapted to.
The Syrian Army was on the ropes a year ago. The Russians have been rebuilding it not only in training soldiers and supplying new updated equipment, but also in the logistics behind the frontlines. This takes time and maybe that is one of the many reasons that the Russians keep talking and having these irritating COH's just when the SAA is gaining ground. They have to draw this out to get the SAA back in shape and they have to take the COH gap when it comes. The US won't have a COH when their "moderates" have the upperhand. I have to agree the SAA, Hezbollah, Iranians, and the rest are going to be a very formidable force if Israel decides to challenge. It's one thing to bomb Gaza, and push a lightly armed small group of fighters around, but they haven't fought a real army in a while.
I have been reading a book about JFK, and there was someone that could think new thoughts and find new solutions. During the Cuban missile crisis this was such an asset, the world was so close to nuclear destruction. But it was also on Kruschev's side that preventing the destruction of the world was key, so the two negotiated a settlement and they both kept to their agreements. It was an era of real statesmen. This successful negotiation created a trust that grew between the two leaders and led to the first nuclear test ban treaty. Both leaders had to contend with powerful "hawks" at home but searched and found ways to move towards a common goal. That foresight, flexibility, and long view is missing from the US powers that be, at the moment.
Your last paragraph is interesting. When Putin was in the KGB, he would have studied the American methodology extensively. He prefers negotiation over confrontation. That he will be messed around by team USA is a given, and is more than likely accommodated in the overall plan of how he is going to obtain what is best for Russia. He would make great Test Cricketer.
Posted by: Dean | Sep 20 2016 20:18 utc | 40
According to a FB posting by Eva Bartlett, the federal NDP caucus in Canada has announced its nomination of the White Helmets for the 2016 Nobel Peace Prize. WTF?
Posted by: spudski | Sep 20 2016 20:20 utc | 41
The odds of a Hillary victory continue dropping on 538. The probability of her winning is now put at 56.3%.
Posted by: lysias | Sep 20 2016 20:24 utc | 42
one has to admire the gladio sacrifice for distraction
musselim knife attacks in minisota,big bang hobo bin bomba in new york,un aid convey hit,brad pitts and satanic angelina divorce news dominating uk news.
all most like a spielberg movie different units filming pick up shots shooting every thing in super blurry vision.
has to be another celebrity death soon david bowie fake death barely registered on the tavistock goy emotional response machines.
the fog of mason war.
the un truck hit will work wonders diffusion and confusion bbc said tonight russia,iran and syria denied involvement.
no mention of denmark,israel,uk or usa usa or proud upstanding australia.
maybe the trucks got hit after al nusra got new tow weapons.
wait for the bbc to soon say assad did it assad must go
Posted by: charles drake | Sep 20 2016 20:25 utc | 43
In 1941, shortly after the Nazi invasion of Russia, soon to be President Harry Truman argued that the US should help whichever side was losing so as to let them kill as many as possible.
Wonder if US Syria policy is based on similar ideas. US and Israel would be very happy if ISIS, Al Queda, and the Secular Syrian state destroyed each other in a river of blood
Posted by: Vollin | Sep 20 2016 20:29 utc | 44
Russia saw this coming and Vladimir Putin and colleagues were smart enough to get the best brains working on designing new weapons. Meanwhile, the best US brains, the physics PHDs etc., all went to Wall Street. And Wall Street crashed.
And meanwhile again, the companies that formed the US military-industrial complex were being undermined by shareholder value, by young and fresh MBA management consultants bossing engineers around, and by manager stock options. So the bedrock, the engineers, were being undermined at every level, to the extent that the United States is a shadow of what it once was. This is the reality.
I agree with Grieved, the balance has shifted, but in my opinion it is because the US stuff is not good enough anymore. And neither is their diplomacy.
Posted by: Lochearn | Sep 20 2016 20:36 utc | 45
Off Thread but:
“The examination of the video footage made via drones of the movement of the humanitarian convoy in areas controlled by militants in the province of Aleppo has revealed new details. The video clearly shows how terrorists are redeploying a pickup with a large-caliber mortar on it using the convoy as a cover,” Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.
He said that “it is unclear yet who accompanies whom: the [pickup with a] mortar accompanies the convoy with “White Helmets” volunteers or vice versa.
Posted by: Dean | Sep 20 2016 20:45 utc | 46
@38, Tom
So now that some Russian leadership has said that the US appears to be clearly supporting Isis, no more talks/deals/BS CoH between the 2 ?
The key word "some" and namely Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova. There will be more talks and there better be. Some strata of US "elites" need some sort of settlement in Syria. They still view it as a humiliation but at least they don't want to risk escalation. We all will see how election dynamics manifests itself--very many strange things may happen, especially if Trump will gain a serious lead in polls. But the message from Russia (and China) was pretty clear--it better be relatively peaceful. In some sense these events are the last stand of US as we know it. HRC presidency means only one thing--liquidation, probably even without sale.
Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Sep 20 2016 20:46 utc | 47
Thanks for the link. One of the comments has the following Reuters link, which probably explains the see-saw media coverage on the attack on the aid convoy as well as we can expect.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN11Q1NR
Posted by: woogs | Sep 20 2016 20:51 utc | 48
Well b has done it again -- great analysis. I have resisted believing that the US knows what it is doing in Syria and Iraq. b's scenario seems to explain what appeared to be a number of disparate and contradictory facts. On the basis of the parsimony principle this would have to be the preferred hypothesis. Though I have not given up yet that the contradictions and incoherence of US policy is the result of power struggles going on in Washington and Obama's inability or unconcern to exercise leadership.
Posted by: ToivoS | Sep 20 2016 20:55 utc | 49
@ tom 38
Your anti-Russia tirades are becoming tiresome. Every day the same. No nuance, no difference, no originality, no new facts.
Posted by: Lochearn | Sep 20 2016 20:58 utc | 50
Moon of Alabama receives some quotes from Russian Insider.
Posted by: erichwwk | Sep 20 2016 21:27 utc | 51
perimeter @34
i hear you. the NatSec sector may be upping the ante. but until someone draws a line in the sand, they are complicit.
there were several MSM columnists a while back bruiting the possible need for a military coup should der Drumpfenfuhrer win the election. (why? cuz he's nuts? or cuz he hesitated on starting WW3 w/the Bear over some bats-in-the-belfry incident in the bedlam Baltics?) ditto Corbyn in the old country re disavowing the use of nukes. since the military won't sit for that, Theresa May obliging fellated their nuclear-tipped penii.
Posted by: jason | Sep 20 2016 21:29 utc | 52
maybe explains all the psy op distractions cover stories and zionist masonic bombing coalitions of the willing in the last few days.
if true...
7 russians included in air raid fatalities
The bombing of Deir ez-Zor. The consequences
El Murid, Sep 18 2016
Yesterday’s bombing of Deir ez-Zor is how to understand the Russian measurement. Middle Eastern sources state that during the bombing were killed Russian SOF, which apparently carried out an aircraft adjustment. Alleged death of seven Russian soldiers, including the commander of the group.
Claims that Russian SOF commander was among those killed in US airstrike.
— Malcolmite (@Malcolmite)
Deir Ezzor : Reports that 7 #Russian soldiers were among those killed in yesterday’s #US airstrikes on #Thurda Mountain.
— Christian Turner (@CombatChris1)
https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2016/09/19/7-russians-included-in-air-raid-fatalities/
Posted by: charles drake | Sep 20 2016 21:34 utc | 53
b wrote: "Immediately after the attack fighters of the Islamic State occupied the bombed out government positions. These Islamic States fighters now own the heights above the Deir Ezzor airport."
Are you sure about this? There were several reports that the SAA quickly regained the lost ground following prompt provision of air support by the RuAF and the SAAF. That led to one Syrian aircraft being shot down by anti-aircraft fire.
From Ziad Fadel:
"But [following the attack], an enraged Syrian Army with the help of the PDC and Shu’aytaat Tribal militias, acting under the tenacious and ferocious aerial support of both the SAAF and RuAf, quickly restored army control over all Al-Tharda Mountain inflicting at least 100 casualties on the terrorist filth, destroying 10 vehicles, 6 of which were pickups with 23mm cannons. The air forces are continuing assaults today all around the area of Al-Tharda, Panorama and Al-‘Urfi."
Also
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://rusvesna.su/news/1474142013&usg=ALkJrhhTdR-Av9m_SNWGzc_edNjINUP-wA">http://rusvesna.su/news/1474142013&usg=ALkJrhhTdR-Av9m_SNWGzc_edNjINUP-wA">https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://rusvesna.su/news/1474142013&usg=ALkJrhhTdR-Av9m_SNWGzc_edNjINUP-wA
and
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-recovers-territory-deir-ezzor-us-attacks-positions/
Posted by: Yonatan | Sep 20 2016 22:15 utc | 54
From Al Masdar: https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/russian-warships-launch-3-sub-caliber-rockets-jihadist-defenses-aleppo/
I haven't seen any confirmation on this, but here's an excerpt that is telling:
"Russian warships fired caliber rockets onto the command posts of the terrorists in western Aleppo, Bwhere Turkish, Saudi, Israeli, UK, and US officers are deployed to aid their operationsB," Sputnik News Agency reported on Tuesday.
Posted by: Jean | Sep 20 2016 22:16 utc | 55
Sorrie b, for the OT if OT?
AMN and SouthFront probably very few websites you can still trust. Below Bill Black a State Senator from Virginia express his views as he did very often regard Syria. I salute Bill Black as the only democratically elected Republicans or Democrats in the USA.
“A Senator of the State of Virginia expressed his 'deepest regrets for the terrible tragedy at Deir Ezzor' in a letter to Syria's Ambassador to the United Nations, Bashar Ja'afari.
Senator Richard H. Black has always expressed his support for the Syrian Army and their struggles against the takfiri forces. This culminated in the famous letter he sent to President”
Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 20 2016 22:28 utc | 56
B's analysis is excellent as usual but I'd add that these US attempts at Hasakah and Deir Ezzor wreak of poor planning, unrealistic expectations and DESPERATION.
That begs the question whether there is a second act to follow the US attempts to turn Kurds against the Syrian gov and its bombing of the hill overlooking Deir Ezzor's airport. What is next? Is there more?
Posted by: Alaric | Sep 20 2016 22:39 utc | 57
All of which implies that the "deal" between the US and Russia was and is a sham. It also implies that Obama remains a serial liar intent on the degradation of the Syria military. It implies that the end goal of a war with Iran remains firmly in place to be implemented by the next US President, to be preceded by yet another war by Israel on Hizballah in Lebanon.
And the all the positive articles from "anti-war" pundits in recent days that told everyone to "cheer up - things could be worse" with the Russia deal...well, we cheered up and things got worse - as only I and Mark Sleboda predicted.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Sep 20 2016 22:51 utc | 58
So I will say it again, Russia agreed to the creation of Sunnistan, including an approved Turk invasion, creating facts on the ground which Syria will be hard pressed to reverse.
I'm afraid this is realpolitique writ large. With Iran doing a deal with Rothschild proxy Modi to build a connection to the central Asian Silk Road via the shortest possible route, Iran and Russia are just two nations who will benefit from the long term closure of the so called Shia Corridor.
Russia in particular gets nothing from the building of pipelines across said corridor, except more competition from low cost sources in the Gulf.
Next up for destruction, if the agreement holds and presumably still includes Syria, which it must given their relative quietude, is the destruction of Saudi Arabia. It's been brewing for a while and frankly, trillions upon trillions of repossessed Saudi assets will be just what Deutchebank and other Rothschild World System Bankers need to rescue their teetering ponzi scheme empire. Russia gets $160 to $200 barrel oil as Saudi becomes unreliable as crude source. I have seen Brookings style maps which reunite Syrian and Lebanese coastal regions into a reduced Grand Liban, which, given the ethnocultural makeup of the nations in question, is a logical 'give' for Syria in any negotiation for a long term solution. Israel would meanwhile get Golan and a slice of Lebanon for their aquiesence to such an agreement.
Posted by: C I eh? | Sep 20 2016 22:58 utc | 59
58
and what about jacob rothschild rupurt murdoch genie energy what about israel leviathan mega poil and gas belonging to syria and palestine
syrian and those folks in gaza soros move to europe barbera lerner spector style perhaps with russia doing a pipeline deal with nuttyahoo including new cyprus oil gas fields perhaps?
Posted by: charles drake | Sep 20 2016 23:13 utc | 60
#58 Charlie Drake
You speaketh in SEO keywords. Cool! I'll give it a try myself some time.
Posted by: Quadriad | Sep 20 2016 23:31 utc | 61
Paveway IV @ 36:
I would add that even if Russian bombs were to be found at that site in Aleppo, that fact in itself would not mean that they had been dropped by the RuAF or the Syrian air force. Qatar has been buying old Soviet bombs at triple their normal prices (market or black market, not sure) from Ukraine through a Polish middleman firm. The Kiev criminal regime have been eager to oblige.
https://southfront.org/a-gift-from-qatar/
Posted by: Jen | Sep 20 2016 23:38 utc | 62
Whether Hillary or Trump is elected, the USA will not escape from the deep division and radicalization in the country, the unescapable growth of Islamophobia and the revenge of all the Syrians and Arabs that have been bullied, destituted,killed and duped by the USA and its allies.
It is inevitable that a wave of violence will hit the USA, France and the UK just after the elections.
Dark days ahead for the 'criminal' powers fustigated by Ban Ki moon
Posted by: virgile | Sep 21 2016 0:03 utc | 63
Perhaps all commenting here ought to read this not-news:
http://russia-insider.com/en/nobody-believes-it-everyone-ground-knows-they-are-jihadis-us-special-forces-hate-their-syria-mission
Posted by: GoraDiva | Sep 21 2016 0:16 utc | 64
On Saturday U.S. airplanes attacked the most important Syrian government position in Deir Ezzor.Oops. Sorry about that.
Nearly a hundred Syrian soldiers were killed and most of the heavy equipment the Deir Ezzor garrison had left was destroyed. Immediately after the attack fighters of the Islamic State occupied the bombed out government positions. These Islamic States fighters now own the heights above the Deir Ezzor airport. A day later the Islamic State shot down a Syrian government plane near Deir Ezzor.The city and its 150,000+ inhabitants are surrounded by the Islamic State. They had been supplied from Damascus by nightly flights to the airport. As the Islamic State now has fire-control over the airport as well as anti-air weapons those supply flights are no longer possible. The U.S. air attack practically closed down the Syrian government ability to supply the city. If this situation continues the city will fall to the Islamic State.
Might I suggest a Russian airborne assault to retake the heights?
It's going to be an absolute age, if ever, before Turkish ground forces get to Deir Ezzor, after stopping off en route to take Raqqa, so I suggest that Russia gets a rescue mission together to secure the heights and restore the supply line.
Whether Assad wants to offer Deir Ezzor to the moderate opposition as a swap in peace / partition talks is another matter but meantime no-one in the West wants to see ISIS take another city. So best of luck with that.
Posted by: Supreme Allied Condista | Sep 21 2016 0:49 utc | 65
create “Sunni entity” in east-Syria and west-IraqI think the best hope of peace is some kind of partition of Iraq and Syria, with one or two "Sunni-friendly" but Arab secular, not Salafist, state(s), along the secular lines of Kemalist Turkey, perhaps with Turkish troops with an international mandate to secure or a status of forces agreement with the Syrian moderates to ensure the new state remains democratic and not a thorn for further jihadi trouble-making in the region.
My strategy is to defeat ISIS and to regime-change their Salafist state sponsors.
STRATEGY TO DEFEAT ISIS
1) Overall strategy - the West needs to apply the Bush Doctrine to all state-sponsors of terrorism - Saudi Arabia & other Gulf monarchies, Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, Sudan, Iran and other dictator states - regime change them all.2) Use stand off techniques more robustly - such as seizing control over state-sponsor-of-terrorism satellite-TV broadcasting (often supplied to Arab and North African state broadcasters by European satellite TV companies) and turning that propaganda weapon around and using it to promote democratic revolution through-out the region.
3) Impose the West as sole agents for all oil tanker export sales out of the Gulf. Seize all oil tankers exporting oil and sell the oil, depriving regimes of oil profits.
4) Now once you have an overall strategy in place, then you can look at specific military actions. Bombing prestige regime targets or threatening to if Al Baghdadi's head is not on a spike within 48 hours.
5) Partition Iraq & Syria. Iraq looks like it has to go three ways - Shia, Sunni & Kurds. If the 3 new states all want to join up together in an Iraq confederacy or union of some kind of their own free will, that's fine too.
6) Establish Western military bases in Iraq & Syria for training up the local armies. Better if we can supply them by sea or air rather than by long land routes which can have supply routes attacked by road side bombs and ambushes.
For implementation I would trust only Condi and myself to oversee this strategy through to victory but I am sure I could find a place for Russia in my strategy if the Kremlin is interested in cooperating with the West to eliminate the jihadi terrorist threat once and for all?
Posted by: Supreme Allied Condista | Sep 21 2016 0:51 utc | 66
The U.S. plan is to eventually take Raqqa by using Turkish or Kurdish proxies.Yup that seems to be the way of it right now. I'm certainly arguing for putting Turkish forces in Syria under supranational control - either under Operation Inherent Resolve, as with the YPG/SDF, or my preference would be to put the Turkish forces under NATO command, using the elite NATO Rapid Deployable Corps - Turkey.
If my suggestion to use a NATO corps were to be adopted, it wouldn't be U.S. "proxy" forces.
NATO isn't a US proxy organisation. It is a democratically run organisation, with the US in the lead role, admittedly.
Anyway, no word on NATO getting involved officially, though the NATO Secretary General went to Ankara recently to offer NATO's best wishes for the Turks "Operations Euphrates Shield".
I want to use NATO because they will be able to take ground about 100 times faster than any Turkish force commanded by Erdogan.
I want to wrap this war on terrorism up as soon as possible but dithering seems to be the West's way these days, ever since Condi left power in 2009 sadly.
TAKE RAQQA BATTLEPLAN 2016
Signal to anti-ISIS forces from Supreme Allied Condista.TAKE AL-BAB
TAKE RAQQA AS PER BATTLEPLANSupreme Allied Condista urges -
NATO support for Operation Euphrates Shield, while cautioning President Erdogan to temper his rhetoric against our brave and trusted allies, the Kurdish YPG and Syrian Democratic Forces.
That NATO does now rapidly deploy the NATO Rapid Deployable Corps Turkey (NRDC-T) in support of Operation Euphrates Shield to secure al-Bab for the anti-ISIS coalition, with a view to a NRDC-T armoured ground attack west of the Euphrates to attack and liberate Raqqa from the south, coordinating with our YPG-SDF comrades attacking ISIS forces from Kurdish-held territory east of the Euphrates moving southwards towards Raqqa.
Congratulations to the Joint Task Force - Operation Inherent Resolve for the great success of the anti-ISIS air warfare campaign which has broken the back of the enemy ISIS who are consequently very vulnerable to our ground forces.
Posted by: Supreme Allied Condista | Sep 21 2016 0:54 utc | 67
@2 @4 hay
Although the SAA apparently did counterattack IS after the ISAF wiped out their position in the highlands of Deir Ezzor and IS overran it, IS apparently returned and solidified hold of the territory. see on the 'US, Israel launch airstrikes on Syrian government forces thread'.
@7 denis, 'Sounds like an obvious USG diversionary tactic to take the heat off of the way its own airstrikes are supporting Da'esh.'
Sounds like you've answered your own question. The Russians have presented pretty convincing evidence the 'convoy bombing' was Yet Another White Helmet Production, and b is analysizing the impact of real events on the ground in Syria and their implications.
@8 woogs,
IS controls them, according to the link cited above in answer to hay's similar assertion.
@14 Peter AU 'The Deir Ezzor attack has seriously upped the anti. With this the risk seems higher that the US is willing to go to hot war with Russia to achieve its aims.'
That certainly seems to be the case. I think that Brennan and Carter - a CIA mole in the DoD - have boxed in 'the civilians' in the US government and have taken control of the US Wehrmacht. Whether they wait for the next administration to open up the war in Europe remains to be seen.
@32 lysis 'The civilians still have the legal power to order the military and CIA around. If they don't do so, it's because they choose not to do so.'
Absolutely correct, in my view. They are traitors.
@41 spudski, 'the federal NDP caucus in Canada has announced its nomination of the White Helmets for the 2016 Nobel Peace Prize'
Right in line with Obama's Nobel Peace Prize.
@20 g, @25 smoothie, @40 dean, @45 lochearn
I agree with you all. The US has its hands around its own throat and is dragging itself down in Syria, and will in Ukraine as well when Brennan-Carter turn their attention there. Russia is advancing into the territory given up by the US with each of its lurching, bloody stagger-steps along the road of decline it's suicidally embracing, at the end of the New American Century. Even ordinary Americans have noted the unmistakable, overt transformation of the USAF => ISAF. We have seen the enemy and he is us. Not at all comic, but the only way down from the height of its flight of fantasy, apparently, according to their dim lights at least ... the civilians are all AWOL.
Posted by: jfl | Sep 21 2016 0:54 utc | 68
I can guarantee you that Russia, will eventually, get sick of dealing with the US in Syria because of the US Empires abuses, lies, terrorist support, proxy murder of Russian soliders, aiding Turkish invasion, mass murder....
There will be a time in the future when Russia will say ' we are not dealing with the US any more in Syria'
What form that will take, I don't know for sure.
But That day is coming.
But I can tell you when that day comes, it will be a complete failure of Russias/ Putins original invitation and plan of working with the evil US Empire in Syria.
A completely predictable situation since the evil US Empire just can't help itself destroy/try to dominate everything around and create enemies out of Russia.
And the Position Russia and Putin-bots have taken has seen themselves desperately painting themselves into a corner with little wiggle room left. Screaming cries against inevitability. Betraying their physical age for infantile delusions.
The day is coming
Posted by: tom | Sep 21 2016 0:56 utc | 69
see @257 on the 'US, Israel launch airstrikes on Syrian government forces thread'.
Posted by: jfl | Sep 21 2016 0:56 utc | 70
It's been rumored that Russia has updated its rules of engagement to say that ANY aircraft targeting SAA or its allies will be attacked, but I cannot find any official announcement of such a change. I know some crave such a change despite the potential consequences.
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2016 0:59 utc | 71
smelled shitty as a policy
smells as a result
ROP . . . capital?
Posted by: Jay M | Sep 21 2016 1:05 utc | 72
Russian warships launch 3 sub-caliber rockets at jihadist defenses in Aleppo
"Russian warships fired caliber rockets onto the command posts of the terrorists in western Aleppo, where Turkish, Saudi, Israeli, UK, and US officers are deployed to aid their operations," Sputnik News Agency reported on Tuesday.
Hard for me to take Sputnik seriously. They seem to try to anticipate the 'deepest, mos secret desires' of their readership - out there in the dark - and to deliver those dredged up fantasies. The Donald Trump of Russian journalism. I imagine we would have heard at least a squeal from at one of { Turkey, Saudi, Israel, UK, US } if their officers had been incinerated sitting around the table in their control room in western Aleppo. Russian Rockets from the Med, maybe. Incinerated pigs - one each? - from the five forces of porcine evil in the MENA, I don't think so.
Posted by: jfl | Sep 21 2016 1:14 utc | 73
the bbc now reporting on this tragic affair with crystal clarity for a change which is nice.
the world service has stated that brad pitts is very sad over his coming divorce from his husband major un actress and satanist angelina jolly.
4th down the headline bbc reported that the usa is now stating the russians bombed the innocent white hats convoy.
as things escalate more celebrities will have to die or be involved in scandal to provide cover for real news actuality.
did the new york cops not find that bin bomber mastermind asleep in an alleyway the other day hardly a jason bourne takedown.
this is all one very weird glitchy computer programme.
they cancer dosed syrian steve jobs up the mossad kidron team put him in a dress carried him outside and took some pictures of him as he was dying as ritual.
Posted by: charles drake | Sep 21 2016 1:16 utc | 74
regarding the 2012 dia analysis and plan.. erdogan never ceases to amaze and swallowing the plan whole hog, while saying syria can never be at peace with assad as leader... but the richest line he saved for last, lol.. if this isn't the mind of one messed up leader, i can't think of a better example..
Syria’s territorial integrity should be respected by other countries,” he added.
Posted by: james | Sep 21 2016 1:24 utc | 75
maybe the translator got it wrong, lol... let me go consult my tea leaves now, to see about that..
Posted by: james | Sep 21 2016 1:25 utc | 76
Here is some food for thought. The desperation is palpable, this is apart from overall imbecility of US media pundits.
Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Sep 21 2016 1:38 utc | 77
@73 charles drake - I get a lot of fun out of some of your writing. Thank you. I miss your classical style of short-line poetry. I still chuckle when I think of "dancing israelite laughing at the goy" from a couple of days ago. And the "spasticus-spartacus" play yesterday was fun. I was going to lament this new prose style of yours, but this post is quite good, almost a mix of the two forms.
Just my two cents thrown in the hat of the street busker. Hope you'll take them as intended, harmless.
Posted by: Grieved | Sep 21 2016 1:53 utc | 78
Maps and Conspiracy Theories
It's always interesting to see the history of the ways people envisioned re-carving up Iraq and Syria. Before the most recently-abandoned scheme with a contiguous Rojava Kurdistan and before the DIA-envisioned east Syrian/West Iraqi Sunnistan, the neocons had a much more insidious scheme. I tend to see all current DIA/Bolton-type Sunnistans as deformed children of their original Franken-sunnistan
Sunnistan was originally envisioned something like this in the mid 2000's when the U.S. was bailing out of Iraq leaving the failed state and self-destructing government specifically created by the CIA for that purpose. These old Sunnistan maps are particularly evil in that hedgemonic kind-of-way considering
1. The neocons already conceived a partitioned Syria well before the U.S. manufactured the civil war there. Sunnistan wasn't conceived in 2011 but a decade earlier.
2.Clearly shows the land theft and puppet Sunni state required for the ambitious Qatari pipeline scheme.
3. Shows the destruction and ethnic cleansing of the Syrian Kurd's Afrin [Efrin] canton, which would disappear to make way for the new Sunnistan
4. Perhaps not so clear in this little map, but the neocon's psychopathic plans called for Latakia (and in some versions even Tartus) to be part of the new Sunnistan. There would be no land theft from Turkey's Hatay province for this Sunnistan's Mediterranean port. That land would come from the former Syria. Assad must go because the Alawites must be subjugated or ethnically cleansed to make way for Sunnistan's port.
5. Prior to the neocons screwing up the Iraqi land theft/partition, you'll notice that Sunnistan also included Basra city and the al Basra Oil Terminal giving it Persian Gulf access.
6. With the Persian Gulf to Mediterranean Sea swath, all the Gulf countries would have had a contiguous and direct oil and gas pipeline route to European markets. What do you think that would have been worth to the oil monarchies? How hard do you think it would have been for Cheney/Bush/Neocons to sell the Shia-dividing corridor to them?
7. What do you think it would have been worth to Israel to have Lebanon and the Hezbollah cut off from Iran like this by such a Sunnistan? No Hezbollah, and Israel gets all those mountains and fresh water it needs that those selfish Lebanese won't just give them back, because you see it was Israels a billion years or so ago. They have maps!
8. What do you think it would have been worth to Israel to have oil and gas pipelines running from Basra through Jordan an on to Haifa? Not only would this ensure Israel's petroleum security for a long time, but they would have made a killing on export out of Haifa. This was way before they knew about the Leviathan gas and the fake Golan oil. Saddam's Iraq refused to sell Israel a drop of oil, but a U.S.-puppet Sunnistan would have sold them all they wanted.
9. Kurdistan was always envisioned as Greater Barzanistan. There would have been no Rojava. Barzani would have ruled Kurdistan and all its oil. Syrian Kurdistan was an unexpected and unwanted development that had to be dealt with in the last few years, but the original old-school neocon Sunnistan would have taken the entire western half of Rojava and thrown the eastern leftovers to Barzani.
10. The ISIS scheme (I would insist) all along was meant to serve as the land-squatting head-choppers on the west side of the Euphrates all the way from the Persian Gulf to Turkey. They would be overthrown (when the time was right) by U.S./Western/Gulf-backed moderate head-choppers to cement the borders for the new puppet Sunnistan.
I can't help but see all the ISIS-steering (and intelligence provided to them) to serve some evolution of this old-school Sunnistan while trying to focus our FSA mercenary army on overthrowing Assad. The earlier efforts in Anbar/Iraq partitioning are a complete failure, so that part of the project is screwed up. Between the Turkish Corridor, Rojava and the slice of southeastern Syria they still have for Sunnistan v.4.0 (I'm sure they have a v.5 and 6 contingency Sunnistans in reserve).
Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 21 2016 1:54 utc | 79
@79 - I had trouble too but got it on the 2nd go:
http://www.imolaoggi.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Sunnistan.jpg
Brilliant map. Wonderful essay Paveway.
Posted by: Grieved | Sep 21 2016 2:16 utc | 81
[email protected] - Sorry, and I didn't give it proper attribution. It came from an ImolaGotti article (Italian) found here:
http://www.imolaoggi.it/2015/11/27/isis-e-la-creazione-del-sunnistan/
The link to the old-school Sunnistan map seen in the article should have been:
http://www.imolaoggi.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Sunnistan.jpg
The article discusses the Sunnistan scheme in a general sense. I used their map because there's very few examples of the 'original' Cheney/Bush Sunnistan. I probably remember it from a printed newsletter of the tin-foil hat variety back in the day. You can see it on the Greater Israel Oded-Yinon outline, but I hate to mix up too many conspiracy theories at the same time.
Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 21 2016 2:22 utc | 82
@78 pw, 'The neocons already conceived a partitioned Syria well before the U.S. manufactured the civil war there. Sunnistan wasn't conceived in 2011 but a decade earlier.'
While waiting for your map I note an interesting parallel to your 1. and a post I saw today at Fort Russ, Understanding Donbass, and how our American Friends thumb their nose at the world ...
In these two departments, Donetsk and Luhansk, the Russian patriots, i.e. those whose language and culture have been Russian since forever, oppose themselves to the centralized Ukrainian forces, that are manipulated and organized backstage by Washington, intending to impose NATO, completing the NATO-ized cordon sanitaire which, from Turkey all the way to the Baltics, isolates Russia from Europe.The US maneuver takes its entire direction from a reading of the famous book The Grand Chessboard of Zbignew Brzezinski, grand poohbah of the State Departments policies, published in 1997, and that even then announced the future manœuvres of the CIA "between 2005 and 2015" to destabilize Ukraine.
Today the Ukrainian Finance Minister, Nathalie Jaresko, is an American, and, as can go without saying, was imposed by Washington. She has almost instantly taken on Ukrainian citizenship -- an opportunist measure fitting in with the American strategy.
... these guys in their rat holes have been stirring the pots of their evil brew for decades. Nothing but a directed purge will rid us of them.
Posted by: jfl | Sep 21 2016 2:27 utc | 83
Re: Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Sep 20, 2016 3:50:42 PM | 31
One of the most important reasons Russia is in Syria is to stop a Qatari pipeline to Europe.
Deir Ezzor and Eastern Syria is obviously crucial to that. If they let that part of Syria go, they will in the end find themselves dependent on China and at the mercy of the Chinese with regards to their natural resources.
Is that really what they want?
I kind of doubt it.
Re: Posted by: lysias | Sep 20, 2016 3:54:20 PM | 32
The civilians still have the legal power to order the military and CIA around. If they don't do so, it's because they choose not to do so.Would the military and CIA really launch a coup if the president didn't follow their orders? Would they dare to resort to murdering civilian leaders? I very much doubt if they would do any such thing, and, if they did, they would thereby diminish the power of the U.S. by a factor of, I would estimate, 10.
Interesting you say this.
They murdered JFK didn't they? And RFK.
Contrary to your point of view, I would actually say US power in the world has grown since the early 1960s.
You seem to think the US has diminished it's power since the 1960s by a factor of 10! Really?
I find that hard to believe, can you give examples of this diminished power of the US over the past 5 decades.
@78 pw
That 'original' Sunnistan was mostly in Iraq. I think that Iraq is still key to rolling back the US/NATO Evil Empire in the Middle East. I see, periodically, news of really massive demonstrations against the empire's comprador government in Iraq, but no action since that foray into the Green zone. Or have I missed it?
Have you any insight into the action/inaction in Iraq? Are Sadr's legions ever going to rise and throw the US out of their country? I suppose they will. Like the Russians and Iranians they are waiting for the right time?
Posted by: jfl | Sep 21 2016 3:14 utc | 86
#83 Julian
Who will find themselves at the mercy of the Chinese, and whose natural resources?
Theory 1 is that the Russians will be at the monopsonistic mercy of the China with regard to their gas sales (Oil can easily be shipped out by sea).
But, Theory 2 is that when you speak of a Qatari pipeline to Europe, you are in fact talking of a Chinese pipeline to Europe, and that Europe will be at the mercy of former Qatari, future Chinese oil.
This second thesis sounds much more realistic. I really think the Chinese should start doing something about all those illiterate Salafist Camel-f***ers camping over their oil and gas with this deluded idea it somehow belongs to them and their camels just. If I were the Party Chairman, I`d get together with the Indians, put aside the old and retarded concerns about some mountain goat buggering east Himalayan foothills and finally start splitting the lowland Arabian peninsula between the two big Asian bros like it was always meant to be.
Posted by: Quadriad | Sep 21 2016 3:18 utc | 87
Re: Posted by: Jean | Sep 20, 2016 6:16:16 PM | 54
"Russian warships fired caliber rockets onto the command posts of the terrorists in western Aleppo, Bwhere Turkish, Saudi, Israeli, UK, and US officers are deployed to aid their operationsB," Sputnik News Agency reported on Tuesday.
If this is true - why the hell hasn't it been done before?
@84 julian, 'They murdered JFK didn't they? And RFK.'
Absolutely right there. But the Kennedies were still very conflicted and playing things too close to their vests. I don't know what Lysias is thinking, but I'm thinking direct and public orders, the disassembly of the NSA and CIA, created by executive order, destroyed by same as well.
Given the years since they killed the Kennedies and the public recognition of their inherent evilness and power since, assassinating the executive would be universally recognized as exactly what it was. I think the assassination could be prevented, a like-minded vice put in place in anticipation thereof, in any case.
The alternative to such a direct assassination and bald grab for power is the dis-assembly of the heart of darkness. That would result in the reduction of their power by a factor of more than ten. Given, as you point out, their growth in power since the sixties a factor of one hundred would be more appropriate.
The problem, of course, is the gelding of the electorate my the menagerie. The first step, in my view, is no to the menagerie, and the empowerment of ordinary people and the reconstitution of our polity based upon popular sovereignty. Any and all potential executives under the present regime are destined to betray us. We need to seize power in the USA.
Posted by: jfl | Sep 21 2016 3:32 utc | 89
Re: Posted by: Quadriad | Sep 20, 2016 11:18:57 PM | 86
This second thesis sounds much more realistic. I really think the Chinese should start doing something about all those illiterate Salafist Camel-f***ers camping over their oil and gas with this deluded idea it somehow belongs to them and their camels just. If I were the Party Chairman, I`d get together with the Indians, put aside the old and retarded concerns about some mountain goat buggering east Himalayan foothills and finally start splitting the lowland Arabian peninsula between the two big Asian bros like it was always meant to be.
I haven't seen the slightest bit of evidence that China plans on putting any military assets whatsover on the ground in the Middle East.
Have you missed what's going on in the South China Sea?
Also note that the Bush/Cheney/Neocon Sunnistan was their chosen but inaccurate name. One which coincidentally shows their ignorance of ethnic-religious-linguistic makeup of their planned victims. This map from Vali Nasr found in this Vox article shows in a very general form that the old-school Sunnistan was draw to serve the money-grubbing psychopath's pipeline routes, not to serve any imaginary geographic concentrations of Sunni populations.
Sunnistan would have only accurately described the branch of Islam that would have been usurped, corrupted and imposed on its citizens to control them. I'm guessing it would have looked a lot like the brand of Wahabbism used to control the unfortunate Saudis. And I also would imagine that Cheney/Bush using that particular name would have made the blood boil in the other two billion or so Sunnis on Earth, but maybe that's just me.
Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 21 2016 3:41 utc | 91
No, but it's of limited relevance. The entire modus pensandi of the de facto first-ring-of-island ocean blockade of the "Yellow Peril" heavily relies on China being surrounded by enemies and US bases, with the biggest enemy of course being right across the mountains, thus having to absolutely rely on getting the stuff in and out using the oceans.
I call BS on all of that in the long run, if the diplomacy gets the job done instead.
There's nothing in the upper Assam that's genuinely worth fighting for and having any grudge over, considering that we are talking about the relationship of a pair of countries of some 2.7 billion people combined. That's over 1/3 of planet Earth as far as I'm aware. The bad relations between the two are much a legacy of an older generation.
Add to this the fact that Pakistan as a whole is an artificial, malicious British construct that should not exist in the long run, and what you get is an uninterrupted land bridge between Shanghai and the Latakia on the Med, if we count Iran and it's buddies in (which we should imo). The Chinese need to get over their fixation with propping that failed state up, and work out how to best quickly jointly occupy it and sieze all their nukes.
Anyway, denial of Chinese shipping lines can only mean jack for as long as India is unfriendly to China. Once this changes, it's all over Yankee Rover. You might as well stick all 12 aircraft carriers up your butt as they can't help you defend and keep the Middle East one bit. Better try and stick to the Monroe meddling in Latin America, and even that only for long as they don't all start openly laughing at you and your old glory.
Posted by: Quadriad | Sep 21 2016 3:46 utc | 92
@ Jack Smith - 15
I've talked to CodePink and given them links to
the "real" functions of the White Helmets.
They have responded that they are checking the links,
which they now find seriously disturbing.
Maybe they will stop drinking the Kool-Aid
I also include a link to a detailed article about US interference
in the affairs of a sovereign state:
http://fortunascorner.com/2016/09/15/u-s-special-forces-sabotage-white-house-policy-gone-disastrously-wrong-with-covert-ops-in-syria/
Its quite an eye opener, but theres some argy-bargy about copyright,
so it may not be there for long
:-)
Posted by: DavidKNZ | Sep 21 2016 4:13 utc | 93
[email protected]
There seems to be a question of which aid convoy is being talked about. Apparently, there was a convoy containing arms that was indeed bombed, and some of the White Helmet film is of that. The IFRC/SARC convoy may have been set afire, rather than bombed or shelled. It will probably take months to sort out what really happened.
Posted by: William Rood | Sep 21 2016 4:13 utc | 94
@91 Q, 'The Chinese need to... occupy [Pakistan] and seize all their nukes.'
Let's you and him fight? You're not a Hindu Nationalist yourself by any chance, are you?
Posted by: jfl | Sep 21 2016 4:24 utc | 95
[email protected] - "...Have you any insight into the action/inaction in Iraq?..."
The U.S. has seemingly empowered the worst of the worst psychopaths in Iraq. Throwing us out won't begin to undue the massive, pervasive, overwhelming corruption we enabled and cemented in place there. Will the little people in Iraq somehow be able to rise up and throw off the yoke of oppressive tyrants and criminals that run the place today? Hell, I can't even do that here in the U.S. - what chance do they have?
Iraq wasn't a madhouse for most of it's existence. Most of the people in Iraq are good people that want the country to be run by equally good people that do the right thing. But they're little people just like me - nobody in charge cares what we think until just before we string them up on a lamppost or show their public execution on national TV. And while quite gratifying, that usually just replaces the old psychopaths with new ones.
I'll only offer this about the Iraqis: I would bet they will fix their country far sooner than I will ever fix mine. I can only hope they have lenient immigration policies and a generous social welfare system... you know... just in case.
Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 21 2016 4:29 utc | 96
[email protected]
Jill Stein has put it very succinctly, saying that US foreign policy is "a marketing strategy for weapons manufacturers." Here's my more elaborate analysis:
The alleged exceptionalism goals of American interventionism -- including stability, protection of human rights and the establishment of democracy -- are never achieved. Nor are the less advertised but sometimes avowed goals to protect access to resources or global hegemony, as oil exports always decline in countries at war and the US does not enjoy hegemony (control) in Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, South Sudan, Libya, Syria or Ukraine. Our leaders are sane. They do not take the same actions over and over again expecting different results, yet our noble goals are never achieved, and our more cynical goals are usually not achieved either. Now consider the institutional imperatives of the MIC:
1) profits for arms manufacturers and other military contractors, 2) career enhancement for military brass, civilian employees of the CIA, Pentagon, State Department, and militarist thinktanks, 3) attendant high paying jobs guaranteed by ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) for “US persons” that keep those employees loyal to the system, 4) pork for politicians and 5) blockbuster movies and sensational headlines to sell media (and also to contribute to the necessary fear and jingoism).
Measured against these institutional imperatives, our policies are a blockbuster success (many puns intended).
These institutional imperatives of the MIC provide the environment that selects those who will be successful in government, the media etc. If an applicant to any of these institutions does not support the policy of chaos that furthers these institutional imperatives, that applicant will not be hired. Support for the institutional imperatives need not, and usually is not, conscious, but people can not have a "successful" career in journalism or politics unless they have personally found some justification for supporting the chaos. That justification could be a genuine desire to bring democracy, stability and human rights to the world, a more cynical desire for US hegemony, or a desire to manipulate US foreign and military policy into supporting the interests of an "ally" such as Israel or Saudi Arabia. It doesn't even matter whether the chaos successfully advances those goals. What's important is that the policy of chaos be supported. If an individual does not support the policy, that individual is stamped "un-American," a "hate America firster" and is either not hired or defeated in election. There is no conscious conspiracy forcing this, just ecological, environmental pressures. Thus has the species homo militarus evolved not from "intelligent design" but from "natural selection."
Posted by: William Rood | Sep 21 2016 4:30 utc | 97
@90 pw, 'Sunnistan was their chosen but inaccurate name'
Sunnis, Kurds, Saudis ... Germans ... they're all just vassals anyway. ME vassalstan. It's all about the U-S-A! ... and not even, if you think 315 million people when you think USA. Move the decimal a couple of places left ... 3.15 million people, and subtracting ... and we'll have a more accurate idea of the scope of the beneficiaries of their 'plan'. The name is unimportant. Has reference and meaning to the planners only. America was named for an Italian mapmaker, right?
Posted by: jfl | Sep 21 2016 4:36 utc | 98
@DavidKNZ | Sep 21, 2016 12:13:31 AM | 92
Thanks you, guess you and I did something worthwhile today? I have no means of communicating with any sites that require genuine email.
Did you know White Helmets and Netflix gathering vote for Nobel Peace Prize and wondering how many folks still blind to the fact the White Helmets are actually headchoppers and not Syrians’ oppositions?
Thank you again! :-)
https://www.whitehelmets.org/
https://www.netflix.com/title/80101827
https://www.change.org/p/nobel-prize-do-not-give-2016-nobel-peace-prize-to-syrian-white-helmets
Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 21 2016 5:15 utc | 99
Re Spudski #41 and Eva Bartlett's FB posting:
Yes indeed, Canada's lib-left 'progressive' opposition party, the same that voted unanimously to support the bombing of Libya, has called for a Nobel Prize for 'White Helmets'.
NDP Pushes For Syria 'White Helmets' to Win Nobel Prize
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/white-helmets-nobel-peace-prize-1.3764121
"NDP MP Nathan Cullen said his caucus voted unanimously on Wednesday to support the organization's nomination. He's also written to [Foreign Minister, Stephane] Dion to ask that Canada make the nomination 'an international priority.'..."
Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 21 2016 6:08 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Why didn't Russia attack Islamic State on those heights above the Deir Ezzor airport?
Instead of chatting at the UN?
Posted by: From The Hague | Sep 20 2016 16:40 utc | 1