Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 23, 2016

Open Thread 2016-24

News & views (unrelated to U.S. elections) ...

Posted by b on July 23, 2016 at 6:39 UTC | Permalink


US vice-president’s trip triggers debate on US-China conflict

The Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) foreign ministers’ summit, which begins today in Laos and will be attended by both US Secretary of State John Kerry and Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi, will be dominated by divisions over the South China Sea among its member-states. Efforts to secure a statement supporting the PCA ruling will be opposed by at least Laos and Cambodia, which have backed China’s stance that the rival claims be resolved through “bilateral” negotiations.

Looming over all the diplomatic activity is the prospect of armed clashes when the US military conducts its next “freedom of navigation” operation.

In Australia, Biden’s visit has been followed by an open discussion in the media over the prospect of a war between the US and China, primarily in the Australian Financial Review (AFR).

In a speech on the US-Australian alliance last Wednesday, Biden declared that anyone who questioned “America’s dedication and staying power in the Asia Pacific” was “not paying attention.” With its “unparalleled” military spending and strength, the US had an “unmatched ability to project naval and air power to any and every corner of the globe and simultaneously.” Australia, Biden asserted, must stand “all the way” with the US.

An article in Thursday’s AFR was headlined: “If US, China go to war, who wins?” It flatly stated that, in the light of Biden’s visit, such an “extreme” and “serious” scenario could not be ruled out, even though “such a conflict would divide the world and bring the global economy to its knees.”

In another AFR column, Brian Toohey, a veteran journalist with sources inside the military and intelligence establishment, warned that sending an Australian warship close to an island claimed by China would “risk sparking a low-level clash that gets out of hand.”

Toohey frankly canvassed the disastrous implications of a US-China war. “Some observers, including this writer, believe that the US and its allies would easily defeat China in a major offshore air and sea battle,” he wrote. “But the battle could crash the global economy and wreck Australian trade with China, without resolving the military position.”

Warnings in May of the danger of nuclear war by the Union of Concerned Scientists have been followed by a recent report issued by the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) discussing the possibility of a nuclear exchange between the US and China. The CSIS has been at the forefront of formulating the US “pivot to Asia” to subordinate China to the dictates of the American ruling elite.

The July 20 report was overseen by prominent strategic analyst Anthony Cordesman and is headlined “China’s nuclear forces and weapons of mass destruction.” A key section is devoted to reviewing allegations by some US sources that China has been concealing the full extent of its nuclear arsenal in a massive network of underground facilities and tunnels. The thread running through the CSIS analysis of China’s nuclear arsenal is that it is expanding in both size and capability. Along with other reports published in recent years by Pentagon-linked think tanks, it implicitly leads to the conclusion that the US should act sooner, rather than later, to militarily confront Beijing.

Cordesman, matching Kahn’s insanity, wrote in 2013 regarding a nuclear war between India and Pakistan: “The good news, from a ruthlessly ‘realist’ viewpoint is that such a human tragedy does not necessarily have serious grand strategic consequences for other states, and might well have benefits ... The loss of India and Pakistan might create some short term economic issues for importers of goods and services. However, the net effect would shift benefits to other suppliers without any clear problems in substitutions or costs” [emphasis added].

In a toxic atmosphere where China’s rise is being blamed for the economic decline of US imperialism, the horrifying prospect is that across the American political establishment will conclude that the nuclear devastation of China also “might well have benefits.”

Nuclear might well have some benefits. These people are sick and must be removed from power.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 23 2016 7:22 utc | 1

Nuclear might well have some benefits. These people are sick and must be removed from power.
Posted by: jfl | Jul 23, 2016 3:22:06 AM | 1

Let's not forget that the article was written in AmeriKKKan-Occupied Oz and is 100% Yankee Hokum. Apart from being fact-free, scare-mongering horseshit, it skips blithely over the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for AmeriKKKa's Deluded DayDreamers to prevent China from retaliating to Yankee aggression by Nuking as much of AmeriKKKa as necessary to help them sober up.

AmeriKKKa is fucked.

It's seriously looted joke of a military apparatus is only good enough to start a war which it hasn't a snowflake's chance in Hell of "winning" in any (meaningful way).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 23 2016 8:18 utc | 2

@2 hoarse,

Center for Strategic and International Studies

Originally CSIS sprung out from Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service, and many of principals were also faculty members at the university. For some time CSIS had an office on the Georgetown campus. Several of the principals were "Cold Warriors" and made a little industry out of finding "communist influence" around the world. During the war against Nicaragua, CSIS produced several documents "proving" a communist plot, etc. For many years, CSIS was also seen as a think tank where right-wing "officials-in-waiting" could wait until their next appointment in government.

Anthony H. Cordesman

Professor Cordesman has previously served as national security assistant to Senator John McCain of the Senate Armed Services Committee, as director of intelligence assessment in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, as civilian assistant to the deputy secretary of defense, and as director of policy and planning for resource applications in the Department of Energy. He has also served in numerous other government positions, including in the State Department and on NATO International Staff, and he has had numerous foreign assignments, including posts in Lebanon, Egypt, and Iran, with extensive work in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf.

What's the Australian Financial Review (AFR)?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 23 2016 8:45 utc | 3

“People in our capital city have different mentalities to those in other countries.”

Turkey’s Failed Coup Through Thai Eyes, interesting, middle-of-the-road comparison. Considered msm anywhere else, but the dictator has had Khun Pravit in for "attitude adjustment" sessions on several occasions.

Pravit is prolific and keeps his backbone stiff, though. Makes a point of reminding his readers and the dictator that the dictatorship is illegitimate. Has no legitimacy at all, other than the usual monopoly on the use of force.

The difference between elected dictators and coup installed dictators is that those elected don't have to be as thin-skinned as Prayuth. They can point to their election and claim legitimacy. Prayuth cannot. He knows he's illegitimate. All dictators are self-hating deep down.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 23 2016 10:09 utc | 4

@2 hoarse, 'it is IMPOSSIBLE for AmeriKKKa's Deluded DayDreamers to prevent China from retaliating to Yankee aggression by Nuking as much of AmeriKKKa as necessary to help them sober up'

Williamd R. Polk, Understanding Iran, 2009, AFTERWORD

The game focused on an escalating crisis at the end of which we were informed that “Blue Team” had obliterated a Russian city. How should we respond?

1. Do nothing?
2. Retaliate by obliterating a U.S. city?
3. Or go to general war?

After careful consideration, we opted for general war, firing all our missiles with thousands of nuclear weapons to attempt to wipe out all American retaliatory capacity.

The “umpire,” Thomas Schelling, an MIT mathematician and author of The Strategy of Conflict, called a halt to the game, saying that we had “misplayed,” and called a general meeting in the War Room of the Pentagon for what would have been, in real life, literally a postmortem. He opened by saying that if we were right, the United States would have to give up the theory of deterrence. Why had we acted in this way?

In response, we showed that we went to general war because we had to. If the leader of Red Team had done nothing, he almost certainly would have been regarded as a traitor and overthrown by his own military commanders; had he played tit-for-tat, obliterating, say, Dallas, what could an American president have done? He could not have just turned the other cheek. So, despite the catastrophe for both nations, neither government could have stopped the fateful process. In short, whatever the “interest of state,” the “interest of government” compelled actions that were not governed by the same category of logic. No war game had predicted this outcome. Indeed, for the previous decade, all predicted, as did Schelling, exactly the opposite: The Russians would back off in the face of threat or even attack. We did not then know how very close we had come to total world annihilation in the real-life Cuban Missile Crisis and how much had depended on sheer luck [1] — and on the bravery or foolhardiness of Nikita Khrushchev. [2]

[1] As former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara found years later (“Apocalypse Soon,” Foreign Policy, May–June 2005), the commanders of the four Soviet nuclear submarines then trailing the U.S. fleet had authorization to fire their nuclear-armed torpedoes without recourse to Moscow. Being out of touch with their headquarters, they continued to patrol for four days after Khrushchev had announced the withdrawal and the crisis had ended. None of us in the American government knew that at the time.
[2] He was not overthrown, but after his death he was “downgraded” and not buried at the Kremlin Wall as were other leaders.

I think they're right back there again today, with the same 'rocket scientists' who run the hedge funds calculating the margins on their games of nuclear chicken with both Russia and China. Difference is that when this blows up in their faces it won't be a question of buying the congress and the fed, it'll be a question of their bending over and kissing their asses goodbye. The rest of us will never know what hit us. If we're lucky.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 23 2016 11:51 utc | 5

Sorry, messed up the link

Posted by: jfl | Jul 23 2016 11:55 utc | 6

What's the Australian Financial Review (AFR)?
Posted by: jfl | Jul 23, 2016 4:45:51 AM | 3

= Fairfax Media, the MSM publisher which gave us reams of Neocon (Moral Equivalence) Bullshit from Thomas L Friedman in the run up to G Dubya Bush & J Dubya Howard's (Mr Magoo without the the Good Intentions) Iraq Fake War.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 23 2016 12:20 utc | 7

During the Blizzard of Bullshit which preceded the Iraq Fake War, Howard's minions called for the sacking of a young reporter, Leigh Sales, for describing Oz's ADF forces as "Australia's Soldiers" instead of "Our Troops". ABC (bless their Hearts) backs its staffers to the hilt and Ms Sales is a permanent thorn in the side of Rabid Right Wing Ideologues in Oz. And she does it all, very respectfully, by merely asking the right question (at the 'wrong' time) and waiting in silence for the predictably rabid answer.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 23 2016 12:45 utc | 8

Reconciliation!!! What kind of talk is that?

"Nadiya Savchenko, the military pilot who became a national hero when she was jailed in Russia, faced a backlash Friday for saying reconciliation was the only solution to conflict in eastern Ukraine.

Savchenko’s comments irked many Ukrainian politicians, with some calling her a traitor.

“We are not going to ask occupying forces and terrorists for forgiveness,” said Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to the interior minister. “Now I know: it was Putin who planted her in the minds of Ukrainians as a Trojan horse.”

Speaking on Ukraine’s Channel 5, Savchenko said late Thursday that Ukrainians “need to ask for forgiveness” or there will be no end to the conflict in eastern Ukraine which has claimed more than 9,400 lives and displaced over a million people since it erupted in April 2014."

Posted by: dh | Jul 23 2016 13:17 utc | 9

IMO, the fate of the world depends on the U$A/Russia/China triad, and, whether or not they'll let each other exist, and split the world three ways. Capturing market share, is the "game" for all three,and, that's what's causing most of the friction around the globe.

Everything else, is theater.

Posted by: ben | Jul 23 2016 14:30 utc | 10

@5 jfl, note how true polk is as seen by the red-baiting by Krugman, Goldberg, etc., of Trump who simply said he would not reflexively invade Russia b/c of some incident in Latvia. any sign of backing off makes his gov't illegitimate.

honor is a mere escutcheon. i'll none of it-falstaff.

Posted by: jason | Jul 23 2016 14:38 utc | 11

The problem here is that the majority of this country cannot comprehend the articles coming out of the truth movement. They got shorted in the brain department. Trump knows this and speaks to them at a 4th grade level. My old boss knew that so when he asked me to make a sign and I handed it over, he chuckled at me. He said, you wrote it for you. Now make one for the people who come here.

We need a truth-for-dummies type website. Some kind citizen who wants to do his/her duty and transcribe all the amazing articles being written on a daily basis into a 4th grade level.

Posted by: Barbara | Jul 23 2016 15:11 utc | 12

Buenos Aires Herald; 20 Jul.:
A federal court in La Plata has indicted 21 suspects charged with crimes against humanity committed during the last military dictatorship (1976-1983) in Police Station No. 8 of Buenos Aires province’s capital, which functioned as a clandestine detention centre during that period.

Posted by: Maracatu | Jul 23 2016 15:23 utc | 13

Turkey's failed coup: A victory for ISIS

Posted by: virgile | Jul 23 2016 15:34 utc | 14

I’m not entirely convinced that Gulenists played a *determining, major* role in this failed coup. Erdogan obviously has interests in blaming ‘foreign influence, infiltration, etc.’ - yet he is so panicked he sounds genuine (not that I speak T. or anything, off the cuff feel). Hiis ‘purge’ seems to be >> removing both Gulenists and Kemalists, not that I can really judge that either, just a general impression from a trawl on the intertubes.

Erdogan is in a extremely poor position.

— Internal problems (Kurds, Alevis..and now the kosmop W-oriented class), economic problems (well! everyone has those, but they are set to get much worse…), the effect of the purges: the dismissed will be replaced by loyalists as per usual, but that leaves maybe 150K ppl desperate and they ain’t all going to emigrate to Germany to eat wiener schnitzel - recall e.g. Booted Bremer purging the Baath in Iraq…and settin’ up a ‘Sunni Gvmt’…War on borders and financing them with ‘dark deals’ is always bad, brings strife, war back home, etc.

— Disaproval and condemnation, from the US-NATO-W-EU - hard to judge how far that will stretch, what they will do. Yet, they are stuck with keeping T as a member of NATO and will bitch like crazed harpies behind closed doors but won’t cross red lines - junking T - imho. Kerry made the mistake of mentioning NATO membership in public.

— Acceptance by Moscow (Teheran +…) and maybe down the road Damascus, is a very tough sell as these new partners will demand bending over backwards, i.e. many concessions. Erdogan used to be close friends with Assad, with Gulen, had fair, harmonious relations with Putin. He made it personal, and now he will suffer the blow-back. Such 180 d. turn-abouts are very expensive in political, social capital and status.

Our world today is run by gangsters who negotiate amongst themselves in varous Mafia-type schemes, so predicting who will dominate or prevail is like the old Kreminology to the nth degree.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 23 2016 15:50 utc | 15

Assad's tone in his interview with Cuban media does not sound like any reconciliation with Turkey is one the menu (+mention of the 1000s djihadists sent from Turkey to Aleppo in the last few months)

Posted by: Mina | Jul 23 2016 16:36 utc | 16

Islamists at War in Turkey

But looking at the dramatically failed coup attempt against Erdogan last week, I believe it is unlikely that Gülen was the mastermind behind it. Of course in the absence of evidence so far no one can speak with certainty. .... Indeed, I still believe that HIzmet as a movement represents one of the most encouraging faces of contemporary Islam in the world. .... But there are important differences between the two groups. Erdogan runs a political party, Gülen operates a civil movement called Hizmet (Service). Erdogan comes out of a more traditional Sunni Turkish Islamist movement; Gülen comes out of an a-political, more Sufi, mystical and social tradition. Gülen is interested in slow, deep social change including secular higher education; Erdogan as a party leader is first and foremost interested in preserving his party’s power that operates in a populist manner trying to raise the general welfare.

Posted by: virgile | Jul 23 2016 16:39 utc | 17


Neither Al Assad nor Sissi need Turkey. Why would they make any move for reconciliation as long as Erdogan continues his calls for their resignation..

Posted by: virgile | Jul 23 2016 17:24 utc | 18

"(CNN)ISIS is claiming responsibility for killing dozens of people during a peaceful demonstration by a minority group in Kabul, Afghanistan, Saturday.
So far, 80 bodies and more than 260 wounded people were taken to hospitals in Kabul, according to Ismail Kawoosi, a spokesman for the Afghan Health Ministry"

Posted by: ALberto | Jul 23 2016 17:26 utc | 19

France officialy enters the neo-Feudal era!

Posted by: nmb | Jul 23 2016 17:51 utc | 20

Lol Putin concedes to Washington again, and today there's been another bomb that killed 38 Syrian troops,and only a few days after USA vaporized 200+ civilians in a bombing run

Putin plays games and people die

Posted by: bbbb | Jul 23 2016 18:17 utc | 21

@20 nmb

Once a government is able to install a 'state of emergency', wherein all those old laws limiting its powers are ignored, it's all over. This is what 9/11 accomplished in the USA, what the recent coup accomplished in Turkey, what the southern 'Democrats' accomplished on the streets in Bangkok in 2013-2014 with the aid of the Royal Thai Army ...

Limitations on government power are more important in 'exceptional' times than in any other.

Hollande is a Socialist. War is Peace. Ignorance is Bliss.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 23 2016 21:41 utc | 22

Political prisoners Leonard Peltier and Mumia Abul Jamal, Russian pilot Saroshenko, Anonymous hero Jeremy Hammond, and many who only took drugs or sold them remain in the for-profit-prisons while the true criminals roam free and even seek to enslave us further.

Each heart has its own unique beat, like each snowflake has a unique pattern.

RIP Cecil.

Posted by: Cecil the Lion | Jul 23 2016 22:13 utc | 23

@15 Noirette, 'Erdogan is in a extremely poor position'

I agree. Along any and all of your axes of criteria. I try to think of Turkey and not Erdogan as the protagonist, especially along your third axis. The others all nominally support Erdogan because they all would like Turkey to join them in their struggle against CIA/KSA/IL perdition. Unlike the West, I don't think that they are foolishly conspiring to effect Erdogan's replacement. I do think they are right to keep to their longterm strategy. And what other choice have they?

And what other choice has Erdogan, really, than to go along with those who are at least not actively working against him?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 23 2016 23:21 utc | 24

Nice Bastille Day attack and Munich shooting documented by the same photographer, whose wife is ex-Unit 8200 and also a former knesset member:

Posted by: RudyM | Jul 24 2016 0:32 utc | 25

Obviously nothing suspicious about that!

Posted by: RudyM | Jul 24 2016 0:33 utc | 26


Indeed . . . Remember that you are unique and special. Just like everyone else.

Posted by: Eddie Slovik | Jul 24 2016 2:37 utc | 27

@25 Veeeerry interesting. I smellith a rat -- again. That videographer sure gets around doesn't he? But I'm just another "conspiracy theorist", as the CIA would say.

Posted by: Eddie Slovik | Jul 24 2016 2:40 utc | 28

good find rudy, that is fairly interesting.

Posted by: Au | Jul 24 2016 2:52 utc | 29

Hollande, the neoliberal, is a far cry from Jaures. The French Social Democrats have a way to go though before the reach the depths plumbed by the Germans, who used the Freikorps to defeat the German Revolution, isolating the Soviets.

But hey, don't fret, the Greens are now part of the governing coalition in France.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 24 2016 3:09 utc | 30

@29 goldie @28 eddie @25 rudy

Yeah seems interesting to me, if his identification of the actors stands up. He seems just to pull them out of his hat, doesn't he? Well, he does have links for the more pedestrian claims, but I didn't see anything on the assertion that Einat Wilf is an ex-intelligence officer and foreign policy advisor, nor did I find a link on the assertion that her alleged hubby, Richard Gutjahr, is linked to both Munich and Nice.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 24 2016 4:28 utc | 31

But I would fret about the Donbas just a bit more. Things are definitely not cooling off, in mid-July the Russian Federation was working through the Normandy group to dial it back. Donetsk Shelled by Day as UAF continue to concentrate forces before it.

Kiev realizes that it is running out of time. Deliberately shelling residential areas and affecting the vital urban infrastructure of the Republic of late, it seeks to "squeeze" their residents out of the localities, and in such a way facilitate the seizure of the territory of Donbass. At the same time, Kiev authorities also preceded each attack with justifying propaganda, the Ukrainian media spreading information about the Army of the Republics supposedly shelling Ukrainian military positions.

While folks wait on more data to see if The Donald is a fascist, here's a test problem to limber you up. The new leader of Ukrainian neo-Nazis and the Third Maidan, writes Eduard Popov, is Andre Biletsky, of the Azov Battalion.

It is an interesting analysis of the current political situation, and recommended.

Over the past week, numerous materials in Ukrainian media have discussed the possibility of a coup d’etat in Ukraine. Such discussions were started by the speech of Verkhovna Rada deputy Vladimir Parasyuk live on TV channel 112. According to him, only Azov is capable of carrying out such today.... Other volunteer battalions have been either deliberately weakened or been taken under control by the head of state, Petro Poroshenko. The only one keeping Azov under control is Internal Affairs Minister Arsen Avakov, who at the present moment does not have the best relations with the president.

But “can” does not yet mean “wants.”

....His “Patriot of Ukraine” and Social National Assembly were the most ideologically developed organizations of their kind. And it seems that the most talented political strategists are working for them in order to prevent Azov from turning into a gang like Right Sector or Aidar.... The Azov regiment is now constantly improving its military training and establishing necessary contacts with officers from the UAF and SBU.... This means that Biletsky could gradually gain the support of security forces. Azov’s civil corps is also developing contacts with trade unions and protest movements, i.e., it is being supported on the streets.

The Fort Russ Sitrep cited above has a bit of news about them. "In other extraordinary news, the Interior Minister of Ukraine, Arsen Avakov, promised the Azov nationalist regiment helicopters."

Do you really wanna give these guys choppers?

Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 24 2016 4:48 utc | 32

@9 dh.. fascinating.. thanks! oh to be young and receptive to change and being flexible.. i thought she was a real zealot for most all the time, but this shows a chink in her armour, or a human face behind the mask..

@10 ben.. i sort of see it the same way, except i think it is better reflected with oligarchs who are happy to not identify with any country and screw over the whole planet as much as they can with everyone else the victim/s.. but yes - the usa has shown itself to be fairly arrogant in wanting to take on russia and china at the same time.. that is a dangerous and foolhardy gambit as i see it, and reflects more an empire in decline.

@14 virgile.. see it a bit like that myself. @15 noirette - and @17 mina - thanks..

@25 rudy... thanks.. it is 'interesting'..

@32 rufus.. who cares about whether 'donald' is a fascist.. do people care that obama or hillary are fascists, in spite of all the pretensions otherwise?

Posted by: james | Jul 24 2016 5:40 utc | 33

I care about what the definition of fascist is, and I don't see how it fits Obama or Mrs. Clinton.

This guy seems to care, too. But maybe as the "Father of Fascism Studies", he and Democracy Now have a vested interest in the topic.

These guys also seem to care about the issue as well. They argue about Trump Is 'Neo Fascist,' 'Pathological Liar' (and he is doubtless the latter), the Crooks and Liars commentator worries about the inside the Beltway false equivalence.

As we can see round the bar, false equivalence is a problem outside the Beltway as well.

I'm feeling pretty good, got back in touch with some old friends, so one bourbon, one scotch, and one beer. "And then I sit there/Gettin' high/Mellow."

Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 24 2016 6:21 utc | 34

Militants call on Libyans to mobilize against foreign forces

A group of armed militant groups in Libya has called on the people to fight foreign forces in the North African country, describing their presence as a “blatant aggression.”

Foreign forces, including from France, the US and Britain, are in Libya in a purported fight against the Takfiri Daesh terrorist group.

The presence of French ground troops in Libya was revealed on Wednesday when the French Defense Ministry confirmed the death of three soldiers in a helicopter crash while on a mission in the North African country.

The US and the UK had both confirmed in May the presence of their troops in Libya.

Libya’s Government of National Accord (GNA) denounced the presence of foreign troops as a “violation” of the country’s sovereignty.

The country had had two rival administrations since mid-2014, when militants overran Tripoli and forced the parliament to flee to the country’s remote east.

The two governments achieved a consensus on forming the GNA last December after months of United Nations-brokered talks to restore order to the country.

It's that last paragraph ... 'The two governments achieved a consensus on forming the GNA last December after months of United Nations-brokered talks to restore order to the country.' ... that makes me wonder, again, about the Iranian Press TV. They used to print all sorts of questionable stuff, but over the past six months or so I'd been reading the news there without choking.

But that last paragraph flies in the face of everything else I've learned about Libya since the US/UK et al. came up with the GNA.

Ah, but wait ... maybe it is those two governments - the US and the UK ... that is referring to?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 24 2016 6:51 utc | 35

5 and 25

With Goldman-Trump-Clinton in the bag now; and with both Trump and Clinton ready to select a 5th Tribal Supreme Court Justice For Life to 'put The Chosen over the top'; and with a Search for Alpha come down to QEn spikes and nano-quant flash-crashes by their Kleptocracy, it's just reading from The Exceptionals, a Play in Five Acts, now:



'Good afternoon, Fidelity!


'I'm sorry, sir, I can't quite...'


'Sir, I apologize, we are experiencing a high volume of calls right now, can I get your number and...


'Sir, let me connect you with one of our brokers, please hold ...'

'Hello, you've reached the after-hours trading desk at Fidelity. Please press 1 for English. ... 'acroun , naabot mo na ang pagkatapos- oras desk...'

'1 ... 1 ... 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 '

'Hello, if you'd like to trade equities, please press 1 ...'

'1 ... 1 ... 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1'

'Hello, the equities market is closed right now. To reach our after-hours bond desk, please press 2, or stay on the line and an operator will be with you....'

' ...... 0 ......0 ... 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0'

'Hello, Fidelity, may I have your name?'


'And how can I help you today Mr. Zell!?'


'I'm sorry, Mr Zell, retail redemptions are frozen for 30 days until the global markets stabilize. Can I help you with anything else? How about for your children? Shall we open a 401k for them today? How 'bout a nice Roth IRA?'


'And how much would you like to open that with?'


"They gotcha by the balls." George 'The Man' Carlin

Posted by: Cho Nyawinh | Jul 24 2016 7:20 utc | 36

IRGC busts terror cells, kills 23 in northwest Iran

Brigadier General Majid Arjmandfar, an IRGC commander, said on Saturday that the two terror cells were successfully busted in the provinces of Kordestan and West Azerbaijan.

They were among five terror groups in total operating in northwestern Iran with the aim of destabilizing the country, he added.

The counterterrorism operations are underway in the northwestern parts of the country, said the commander, adding that “since last year, Saudi and US intelligence networks have launched a unified agenda to create insecurity in Iran.”

The two countries had ties with “old terrorist groups and PJAK,” an offshoot of Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), pledging to equip and finance the terrorists in meetings held by their missions in Germany and the semi-autonomous Iraqi Kurdistan region, Arjmandfar further said.

“No matter where these terrorist groups are present to create insecurity, we will nip their terrorist operation and plots in the bud, if we wish,” he said.

On Saturday, Mohsen Rezaei, the secretary of Iran’s Expediency Council, accused the Saudi diplomatic mission in Iraq’s northwest of assisting the notorious Komala terror group in sending militants to Iran.

“In an attempt to interfere in the affairs of Iran and Iraq, the Saudi consulate in Iraq’s northwest helps the Komala terror group dispatch terrorists to Iran,” he said, noting that the plots have all failed due to the “vigilance” of Iranian forces.

“The Saudis are the most evil administration on earth and throw the region into turmoil by their insanity,” he further stated.

I find this very interesting.

The Iranians openly identify the US and Saudis as a team encouraging terrorism in Iran and Iraq.

They identify their 'Kurdish problem' with those of Turkey, Iraq, and Syria (PJAK) and identify Germany as an organizational hub of the PJAK. Kordestan borders the northern, Kurdish region of Iraq and West Azerbaijan lies north of Kordestan and comprises the Iranian-Turkish border as well.

They mention defeating two of five groups and dispersing the other three, but don't specify exactly where they were.

The Komala 'terrorist' group is Iranian. Interesting page at wikipedia, untouched by Iranian hands, tells a very sympathetic story about the group. Wikipedia is like the AP, the UN, Amnesty International ... an organ of the West.

They pledge to fight the Kurdish PJAK wherever they find it? Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey ... Germany?

'The Saudis are the most evil country on earth' ... sounds like the Saudis now outrank the Great Satan?!

So what is going to happen now that Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iranian are all new 'best friends'? Are they really? or is this just the perfect excuse for their united genocide of the Kurds?

The Great Satan has, of course, been fueling and exploiting this problem for years. Can Russia now be of any help in bringing about a more rational and humane solution to the problem? Is such a solution possible?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 24 2016 11:58 utc | 37

jfl, here are a couple sources that link Gutjahr to both events:

Local reporter Richard Gutjahr described the scene at the shopping center as something "out of a bad movie," with the shopping center completely surrounded by police, a helicopter overhead, and police carrying semi-automatic rifles. Gutjahr was not able to confirm reports of deaths or injuries.

Stehe vor dem #OEZ
— Richard Gutjahr (@gutjahr) July 22, 2016

A video by a German journalist, Richard Gutjahr, was posted to Twitter on Thursday showed a white truck accelerating toward a crowd in Nice gathered for Bastille Day celebrations.

Same Twitter account, so presumably the same Richard Gutjahr.

I got the Unit 8200 stuff from Wikipedia last night but it might have been added by unreliable sources. It's been scrubbed now, but still cached. Source cited in pre-scrubbed Wikipedia article:

Einat Wilf (Labor, Atzma’ut), a former intelligence officer in Unit 8200, with a PhD in political science, who was last to raise the issue, in the course of the 18th Knesset.

I would say Scott Creighton is generally pretty caerful with facts, while being very free with his general speculation. He will be right about facts x, y, and z, but he will strongly assert "this has to mean a, b, and c," where he can't really be so sure about the second set of claims. That's my impression anyway.

Posted by: RudyM | Jul 24 2016 14:04 utc | 38

(Speaking of edits, I meant to edit out "but it might have been added by unreliable sources" after I checked the cached copy and found the citation for that claim about Unit 8200.)

Posted by: RudyM | Jul 24 2016 14:10 utc | 39

@38 @39 RudyM

Thanks for doing the work. So what do you think? She uses her connections to discover likely upcoming terrorist attacks and steers him to them?

The question then is, do her sources cause the attacks or just 'hear' about them beforehand and let them go forward?
Is there a difference?

Same question I've been asking since 9/11.

How about herself and her spouse? Do they share their information with people who might prevent the attacks?
Or do they value 'the scoop' over the lives of the victims?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 24 2016 14:51 utc | 40

I think Gutjahr and Wilf are part of these operations and that these things are made to happen by intelligence agencies (presumably with Mossad involvement in these cases), but I don't no if that's proveable. I don't think it's just a case of Wilf advancing her husband's career by giving him hot inside tips. I think we've seen this before where the people who happened to be around to document some false flag or hoax (or what some of us suspect to be a false flag or hoax) have very suspicious connections themsleves.

In the case of 9/11 I feel pretty confident in saying that it was made to happen, not just something that was foreknown. I don't think as tight an argument can be made in the case of Nice and Munich.

Posted by: RudyM | Jul 24 2016 15:34 utc | 41

Machete-wielding man kills 1, injures 2 in Reutlingen, Germany

Terrible for the victims, not to mention the racism triggering..

Posted by: Zedew | Jul 24 2016 16:34 utc | 42

TEHRAN (FNA)- "Hundreds of Iraqi fighters have arrived in the ancient city of Palmyra (Tadmur) to join the Syrian government forces’ fight against ISIL terrorists in Eastern Homs, military sources announced.

“An estimated 1,100-1,200 Iraqi fighters from Kata’eb Imam Ali, Kata’eb Hezbollah and Liwa Abu Fadl al-Abbas have arrived to Palmyra, while Russian fighter jets hold off the ISIL terrorists away from the boundaries of the ancient desert city,” the sources said."

source -

Posted by: ALberto | Jul 24 2016 18:00 utc | 43

Does anyone familiar with Germany know if "777" or "777 777" just happens to be associated with emergency vehicles?

I'm not real big on taking up the numerological angle, or symbolic angle, in general, regarding suspicious events like these, because it seems as if there are simply too many ways to dice things up in a way that makes some symbolic sense. But considering the heavy 777 theme in the Nice attack, the number on the side of this bus really did jump out at me:

Posted by: RudyM | Jul 24 2016 22:43 utc | 44

@41 RudyM, 'In the case of 9/11 I feel pretty confident in saying that it was made to happen'

Certainly agree there. But it was also foreknown and allowed to go forward. Sorting out the sheep from the goats is the sticky part. And some of both seem to dress in drag as the other.

Watch out for cosmic alignments, like numbers.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 24 2016 23:45 utc | 45

Hammond warns of Brexit global ‘shadow,’ says is mulling trade deal with China

At a referendum in June, Britons narrowly voted to quit the European Union, which, according to Hammond, is "not the only shadow the world economy faces."

"At the same time, there are very exciting opportunities opening up with China, with Australia, with India, and with many other countries" he said.

Asked if he considered a free trade deal with Beijing, Hammond replied: "Definitely I could see such a thing."

"We already have a strategic partnership with China... Once we are out of the European Union then I have no doubt on both sides we will want to cement that relationship into a firmer structure in a bilateral way," he noted.

Earlier this month, Prime Minister Theresa May, who won the premiership in the wake of Brexit, discussed a trade deal with Australia in a phone call with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull.

Foreign Office junior minister Alok Sharma was also sent to India on Monday to boost economic cooperation with New Delhi.

"Britain is open for business and thriving on the world stage. We want the strongest possible relationship with India," Sharma said.

Bre're Rabbit waves across the Atlantic to Bre'er Fox from the briarpatch. Those ignorant, working class people made us do it .... so we'll just have to carry on, make the best of it!

Posted by: jfl | Jul 25 2016 0:46 utc | 46

Here are a couple of links

The first is China calling for a fairer international tax system....a lead up to the G20 meeting in September which I think will be a watershed event.

The second link is about a survey about Americans satisfaction with country's direction (not specifically election)

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 25 2016 3:52 utc | 47

A link from ZH

Paul Craig Roberts on the increasing drums of war

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 25 2016 4:11 utc | 48

I read this link from the BBC about the latest Turkey CHP organized demonstration that was subsequently backed by the AK party and the government let speeches be broadcast live.

So was this just a smart move on Erdogan's part?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 25 2016 6:17 utc | 49

@49 psycho

The corporate media is hyping all the great support for "democracy" and "Erdogan" in Turkey ... I'm wondering what happens if Erdo calls a spontaneous demonstration in support of himself and you don't show up? Turkey sounds like someplace I'm glad I'm not right now.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 25 2016 7:27 utc | 50

@48 add to that a great Orlov interview on Max Keiser

Posted by: bbbb | Jul 25 2016 8:06 utc | 51

Al Nusra Front officially splits from Al Qaeda

It renders the cooperation pact with the US worth less to the Russian/Syrian side.

Posted by: Les | Jul 25 2016 18:19 utc | 52

And the FSA front in Aleppo is collapsing.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 25 2016 18:34 utc | 53

Excellent article on Israeli/Wahabist mirroring by Lawrence Davidson at consortiumnews, Israel’s Tightening But Weakening Grip.

    Israelis:Judaeism::Xtian Fundies:Christianity::Wahabists:Islam

The sooner all of us realize this and denounce the takfiris in our own communities the sooner our present, universal nightmare can come to an end.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 26 2016 4:42 utc | 54

Here is a link to an article describing how the Chinese currency will be integrated at the end of September into the IMF SDR valuations which are then fixed for 5 years.

Given the latest tensions I wonder how those international negotiations on SDR valuations for the next 5 years are going?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 26 2016 5:04 utc | 55

Confirmed: Amidst sharpening crisis, Poroshenko and co. have left Ukraine

Everything is getting hotter in Ukraine. Alexander Turchynov is speaking of martial law. Pavel Sheremet was murdered in Kiev. The situation in Donbass has escalated. Meanwhile, Minister of Internal Affairs head Avakov has left on vacation. So has Kiev Mayor Klitchko. And not only them.

As sources in the Ukrainian Ministry of Transport have relayed to PolitNavigator, on July 22nd in the late evening, a private Golfstream 200 plane (tail number T7-PRM) with President Poroshenko on board departed Kiev International Airport for Malaga, Spain. As Ukrainian media have repeatedly written, Poroshenko has a villa near Malaga.

The president’s departure and his absence in the capital have not been publicized. The President, however, is even issuing instructions from his Spanish estate. On Monday, for example, he instructed the Prime Minister and Mayor of Kiev to strengthen security measures for public safety.

The question remains: why have Ukrainian leaders suddenly decided to leave Ukraine? So far, there has been no answer.

The rats are leaving the sinking ship. Putin is not going to Brazil. Probably unrelated.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 26 2016 5:44 utc | 56

Hostage takers broke into a Church in northern France, and slit the priest's throat.

Or, as the French media are reporting it, he was "killed".

Posted by: anon | Jul 26 2016 11:18 utc | 57

Did Kerry one moment expect Russia to accept this??

Posted by: From The Hague | Jul 26 2016 11:56 utc | 58

And we learn to our amazement from French parliamentarian Bernard Carayon that George Soros has been masterminding the refugee influx via over a hundred of NGOs that:

“whisper in the ear of the European Union to encourage the settlement of migrants. One hundred NGOs advocate and encourage the settlement of these migrants in Europe. A third of them are being subsidized by the European Union and the Open Society of George Soros, a network of foundations, partners, and projects in more than 100 countries.”

Posted by: anon | Jul 26 2016 19:08 utc | 59

in other news, Slobodan Milosevic has been cleared of war crimes charges!

' The International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague has determined that the late Serbian president Slobodan Milosevic was not responsible for war crimes committed during the 1992-95 Bosnian war.

In a stunning ruling, the trial chamber that convicted former Bosnian-Serb president Radovan Karadzic of war crimes and sentenced him to 40 years in prison, unanimously concluded that Slobodan Milosevic was not part of a “joint criminal enterprise” to victimize Muslims and Croats during the Bosnian war.'

Posted by: brian | Jul 27 2016 2:08 utc | 60

Let’s take some trips to the near Past. Here part I.

Quote, from 2004:

For the past 10 years, the YES (Yalta European Strategy) Annual Meetings has brought together heads of state and government including Tony Blair, Bill Clinton, Valdis Dombrovskis, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Dalia Grybauskaitė, Toomas Hendrik Ilves, Bronisław Komorowski, Leonid Kuchma, Yves Leterme, Mario Monti, Shimon Peres, Petro Poroshenko, Gerhard Schröder, Yulia Tymoshenko, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Viktor Yushchenko and Vaira Vīķe-Freiberga.

Since 2004, among the speakers have also been seniour ministers, politicians and heads of international organizations like Kofi Annan, José Manuel Barroso, Carl Bildt, Wesley Clark, Hillary Clinton, Arkadiy Dvorkovich, Mohamed ElBaradei, Joschka Fischer, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Štefan Füle, Sergei Glazyev, Herman Gref, Vitaliy Klitschko, Alexei Kudrin, Miroslav Lajčák, Pascal Lamy, Thomas O. Melia, David Petraeus, Martin Schulz, Radosław Sikorski, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Condoleezza Rice, Larry Summers, Strobe Talbott, Shashi Tharoor, James Wolfensohn, Lamberto Zannier and Robert Zoellick. Politicians, businessmen and thinkers, including Newt Gingrich, Richard Branson, Niall Ferguson, Chrystia Freeland, sir Elton John, Arthur Laffer, Eric Lander, Bernard-Henri Lévy, Jin Liqun, Michio Kaku, Paul Krugman, Nouriel Roubini, Jimmy Wales and Muhammad Yunus, have also spoken at YES Meetings.

Those were the Glory Days. What a crowd - and hmm what do they have in common ?

See what pops up for 2016, very different. (The first link it to a ridiculous speech by Poroshenko. Then there is feeble news. + Elton John.)

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 27 2016 18:42 utc | 61

So what do you think, Noirette? They're just going through the motions now? All the real activity is backstage, oiling the guns, moving the ammunition to the front?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 27 2016 23:11 utc | 62

@ PavewayIV - wherever you are

I just read this at

US Marine pilot killed in F/A-18 crash over California

According to witnesses at Marine base, the jet broke apart midair and erupted into a fireball during a dive to deliver ordnance.

This was the fourth F/A-18 warplane that the US military has lost in a crash since late May, when two upgraded Super Hornets collided during a routine training mission.

In June, the US Navy’s Blue Angels aerial acrobatics team lost one of its pilots in another F/A-18 crash.

Budget cuts, problems in procuring spare parts are among a variety of issues that have dramatically reduced the amount of training flights undertaken by Marine Corps and other US military pilots.

The US military has been increasingly facing questions over its training methods after losing some 30 airmen in 2015 alone.

... are they trying to go 'all drone', run the humans out of the 'business', or what?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 30 2016 4:31 utc | 63

jfl@63 - The marines getting screwed again. Here's an article from one month ago:

Marines pull aircraft from 'boneyard,' get used Navy jets amid aviation crisis

"...But while the Hornets in the boneyard can be inspected, repaired and returned to full mission-capable status, doing so can be technically risky and expensive, said retired Navy Cmdr. Chris Harmer, senior naval analyst at the Institute for the Study of War.

“After sitting in the desert for a decade, nobody really knows what condition they are in until they get to the depot-level maintenance facility and are opened up and inspected” Harmer said.

Marine Corps aviation is “on the verge of systemic failure” because the fleet has been overused since Sept. 11, 2001, Harmer added, and the F-35s that will ultimately replace current aircraft are years behind schedule.

“This is not the fault of the Marine Corps, but the Marines will pay the price for it through excess pilot mortality, and the U.S. will face a significant strategic risk in the near future if deployable Marine tactical aviation suffers a significant decrease in availability, which now seems inevitable,” he said.

The F-35 is already killing Marine pilots. Six billion to Israel for military aid and we have bury another young man because the U.S. is run by traitors who will have under-trained pilots operating worn-out junk.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 30 2016 22:15 utc | 64

US army threatens whistleblower Chelsea Manning with indefinite solitary confinement

Following whistleblower Chelsea Manning’s recent suicide attempt, the US Army is vindictively threatening her with indefinite solitary confinement. Manning is incarcerated at a military prison at Fort Leavenworth in Kansas. She is serving a 35-year sentence for releasing 700,000 classified government documents, revealing widespread criminality, to WikiLeaks.

Manning has been subject to nearly continuous harassment by military and prison authorities since her detention in 2010. On Thursday the former intelligence analyst, previously known as Bradley Manning, was informed that she could face charges related to her July 5 attempt to end her life, according to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). The possible charges include “resisting the force cell move team,” possessing “prohibited property” and “conduct which threatens.”

If convicted of these charges, Manning could be punished with indefinite solitary confinement, reclassification into maximum security and an additional nine years in custody. A conviction could also block any chances for parole in the future.

That'll teach her to fail at a suicide attempt. Free Chelsea Manning!

Posted by: jfl | Jul 30 2016 22:49 utc | 65

jfl@63 - My posted replies are not showing up for some reason.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 31 2016 0:01 utc | 66

RT and Sputniknews International reporting Incirlik Base blockade. Turkish Minister calls it is just a security check. However, with 7,000 armed police heavy vehicles, there is speculation of 2nd coup attempt

All inputs and outputs to the Incirlik Air Base located in Adana have been closed as Turkish Minister of European Affairs cautions that it is just a "safety inspection" while local newspapers speculate that a second coup attempt may be underway.
Some 7,000 armed police with heavy vehicles have surrounded and blocked the Incirlik air base in Adana used by NATO forces, already restricted in the aftermath of a failed coup. Unconfirmed reports say troops were sent to deal with a new coup attempt
According to the Turkish Minister for European Affairs, Omer Celik, this is just a routine "safety inspection." Hurriyet, by contrast, reports that anti-terror police received reports of a second attempt by Gulenists to overthrow the Erdogan regime. .

Posted by: likklemore | Jul 31 2016 0:32 utc | 67

likklemore@66 - There were already large protests at the base since Thursday (U.S. go home, down with Israel, etc.). On Sunday morning (about now in Turkey), the Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Dunford, is scheduled to land at Incirlik. That will undoubtedly draw many more angry protesters. And, I suppose, the event has caught the attention of opportunistic head-choppers. Turkey is probably interested in sending Dunford back with his still attached, regardless of the currently soured relations.

There is no 'safety inspection' - they are attempting to protect the base from protesters and potential terrorists. Whenever you see dump trucks and garbage trucks showing up like that, then they're thinking suicide car bombers. I think Dunford is also planning on going somewhere off base - Ankara, maybe? That will be another security nightmare. I don't think he's planning on starting any coups while he's there. More than likely, he's going there to kiss some Turkish general's butts (the ones not in prison yet) so the Turks don't kick the U.S. off of Incirlik and/or out of Turkey. I sincerely hope his butt-kissing is a failure and they throw us and our B-61s out, but I'm sure Dunford will be bringing pallets of U.S. $100 bills to grease a few palms, plus promises of billions in NATO 'aid' to follow.

Sputnik and RT have been going overboard (by historic standards, anyway) about the whole Turkish/U.S. split and some newfound friendship between Turkey and Russia. It's understandable, but just unusual for them. I don't recall either being so overtly biased about anything else since Ukraine. That's not a knock on them - I'm simply making an observation about their reporting on Russia/Turkey since the reconciliation and coup. Since I live in the U.S. and have been subject to our MSM for half a century, I'm hardly one to call the kettle black. In any case, they're over-sensationalizing the situation and only mention Dunford's visit as an afterthought.

No doubt a few Turks have tweeted each other that Dunford is coming to lead another coup or some such nonsense, so we see reports of that. Honestly, there's really nobody left in the Turkish military to lead much of a coup - they don't know who is in charge of anything or who to call. The Turkish Supreme Military Council promotions meeting isn't until next week, so they haven't named any permanent replacements yet. 'Someone' is temporarily in charge of the various units, but you're not going to covertly organize another massive coup with temps.

Incirlik Air Base is still at the highest alert level, Force Protection Condition Delta, but has been for a few months already. The U.S. and Turks are just extra paranoid because of the Dunford visit. I hope he doesn't start playing around with those B-61s during his inspection tour. Those things are dangerous.

Gen. Dunford: Please don't turn any knobs or press any buttons on anything while you're there. Especially the buttons marked, "Do not press!" Marines alwyas want to press those for some reason. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Citizen-servant Paveway.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 31 2016 4:53 utc | 68

@ PavewayIV

Thanks for the sick laugh about the inclination of Marines.....and the military insight.

Here is a link that is tangentially connected....The coming G20

Change is consistent. It is just not always evenly distributed.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 31 2016 5:13 utc | 69

@67 pw 'Marines alwyas want to press those for some reason'

Marines? I didn't know that. I think it's the CIA who are the champions at pressing the 'Do NOT Press!' buttons. Then they laugh and run away. Leave the Marines and everyone else to deal with their death, destruction, devastation, and deceit.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 31 2016 5:19 utc | 70

Re: Dunford in Turkey. It sounds like he's mostly going to talk to his equivalent (head of the Turkish military) Chief of General Staff Akar. If you recall, Akar was the one who took the wind out of the coup's sails by refusing to issue the order to the rest of the military to support the coup that evening and refused to go along. The coup failed at that moment, regardless of what else was going on everywhere else.

That refusal is telling in my consideration. At some point, coup leaders must have assumed (or been assured) that he would direct the military to support the coup. Nobody starts a coup and then waltzes into the head of the military's office and expect them to support the coup unless they have already agreed to do so. If the chief is not on board and everyone else is, then he is axed as well. The interesting thing to know (which we never will) is why his subordinates thought - right up to the moment of the coup - that he would issue an order for support. Did he get cold feet and change his mind? Did he figure the timing was wrong and just didn't want to start it now? I don't think so.

It's quite impossible for me to believe Akar changed his mind right at that point. I'll have to go with the conspiracy theory that he conned his more radical subordinates to thinking he would support them all along, then stabbed them in the back at the last minute. He may have been sympathetic to Erdogan about a Gulenist hiding under every rock. Maybe Akar wanted his subordinates (and the entire Turkish military) purged, so he let it happen on purpose to clean house. Maybe he was the betrayer Col. Lang mentioned on SST. I could see that. Instead of being a common coup rat, he's now a hero (and loving servant) to Erdogan.

At any rate, I'm curious what Akar and Dunford are going to talk about. Erdogan himself is apparently not involved in the meetings, but he's not in much of a U.S.-friendly mood. Here's what Erdogan had to say about some remarks CENTCOM Commander Gen. Votel gargled at the Aspen Satanic Conclave:

"...President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan slammed an American military official who expressed concern that some of the coup leaders were jailed in Turkey.

US Gen. Joseph Votel said Thursday "We've certainly had relationships with a lot of Turkish leaders, military leaders in particular. And so I'm concerned about what the impact is on those relationships as we continue to move forward," Votel said at the Aspen Security Forum.

"It's not up to you to make that decision. Who are you? Know your place," Erdoğan said.

Erdogan was not at the Aspen Black Mass - he was just responding to reports of Votel's comments.

Yeah, Votel. And don't try any coups here in the U.S. to restore the Constitution or democracy - that weasel Dunford will stab you in the back for sure. Know your place: killing Afghani, Iraqi, Syrian and Iranian children to save them. Oh, scratch the Iranian children part. They are not scheduled to start dying at the hands of the U.S. for their liberty and freedom for another half year or so.

Another interesting piece about the coup: according to (((Buzzfeed))), the coup leaders panicked when Akar unexpectedly refused to sign the order and called Dunford, who was in Afghanistan at the time. It was the middle of the night there and his staff didn't want to wake him up (too much heroin and Bacha Bazi, I guess...) and hung up on the callers. Note that the Buzzfeed article describes the callers as Akar's 'kidnappers' - it's not clear if that was the case. I would say it's more like frantic coup leaders who - after being stabbed in the back by Akar - were desperate to find someone to support them. Maybe they thought they could convince Dunford to talk Akar into supporting them.

CENTCOM: "Sorry, it's nappy time for Joey you evil coup chumps. Look up - what do you see? The underside of a bus? OK, then you have been thrown under it by your commander, Gen. Akar. Joey doesn't want to talk to you anymore, either. Please stop calling.. "

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 31 2016 9:19 utc | 71

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 31, 2016 5:19:47 AM | 70

Erdogan has a coalition with Kemalists against Gülen. When that coalition started is anybody's guess.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 31 2016 9:58 utc | 72

@70 pw

Remember in 2003, when the Turks wouldn't let the USA use Incirlik for its invasion and occupation of Iraq? I remember Wolfowitz saying stuff like 'The Turkish army used to be a responsible unit, able to deal with irresponsible civilian leaders'. Yeah, he said that publicly, urging the Turkish army to coup then.

So it could have been some neo-con civilian at the Pentagon again who egged on the coup officers in Turkey. The DoD equivalent of the 50 dancing diplomats at State. Maybe Dunford really didn't know ... officially, but I'd bet he knew something was up. The NSA is part of the command structure, right?

So Akar hears about the coup from his subordinates, thinks - civilians? - this stinks. Goes to Erdogan and says 'How do you want to handle this?' Akar knows the coup's a bust with some civilians pushing it on the US side, therefore he's not going to support it, therefore it's going to fail, therefore Erdogan is his boss, still ... how's the boss want to handle this?

Now maybe it's Akar who's going to talk to Dunford. Maybe he's going to name neo-con names in the Pentagon that the Turks want purged as the price for palsy-walsy relations again. Maybe he's actually got links to Gulen to show to Dunford, and he wants Gulen too. Give us Gulen or we name the neo-cons in the Pentagon who are out-generaling the generals. And get rid of those neo-cons.

I imagine they might work something out. The CIA, and now perhaps DoD appointees, have been running all over uniformed turf, as far as the Pentagon is concerned. Maybe Akar and Dunford can scratch each other's backs?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 31 2016 11:48 utc | 73

@70 pw

Maybe the 'civilian in the pentagon' is Ash Carter. Wouldn't Erdgan be making big points with the Russians and the Chinese if he got rid of that neo-con?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 31 2016 11:50 utc | 74

@64 pw

Man I didn't know the background on that at all. I'm sure no one else does either, not many people read The corporate media are definitely keeping the lid on this. At least the last three of the four fatal crashes of Marine planes mentioned in that article sound exactly like what was forecast by Navy Cmdr. Chris Harmer.

Support our troops. Wow, this is an illustration of how complete is the bullshit. They're killing these Marine pilots in the states ... 'some 30 airmen in 2015 alone.'

Posted by: jfl | Jul 31 2016 13:04 utc | 75

@PIV "Nobody starts a coup and then waltzes into the head of the military's office and expect them to support the coup unless they have already agreed to do so."

Similar thing happened in the US when gen. Smedley Butler pretended to agree to lead Prescott Bush's coup.

Posted by: ProPeace | Jul 31 2016 14:51 utc | 76

@ PavewayIV 68

Over the last 24 hrs Hurriyet Daily News (EN) has ignored the blockade /“safety inspection” at Incirlik but there is this curious piece.

In an interview with the paper the UK Ambassador to Turkey chimes in – speculates but “does not want to jump to conclusions"

…..but he has no difficulty in accepting what the government is saying

“UK envoy: Gülen may be behind failed coup attempt”

”The Gülen movement led by self-exiled cleric Fethullah Gülen in the United States might have staged the July 15 coup attempt, the United Kingdom’s ambassador to Turkey has said, vowing to cooperate with Turkey against Gülen-affiliated institutions in the kingdom if evidence is provided.”


The government accused the Gülen organization of being behind this coup attempt. Do you agree with this?

”I guess we’ll see more definitively as the legal process develops. But I don’t have any difficulty in accepting what the government is saying; that Gülenists were involved in this coup. I think emerging evidence suggests that conclusion (i.e., some of the comments supposed to have been said by some of the arrested officers, the indication from the chief of General Staff that someone offered to put him on the phone to Fethullah Gülen). So, circumstantially, without prejudging the judicial process, it looks to me a pretty convincing case. But no doubt more will emerge in the coming weeks so I don’t want to jump to conclusions.”,

Posted by: likklemore | Jul 31 2016 16:59 utc | 77

jfl@74- Graham Fuller

Posted by: hejiminy cricket | Jul 31 2016 17:10 utc | 78

Video footage shows alleged CIA spy tackled outside US Moscow embassy

Posted by: Lavel | Jul 31 2016 17:31 utc | 79

UAE funneled money to Turkish coup plotters

The United Arab Emirates' government collaborated with coup plotters in Turkey before the unsuccessful attempt was launched, using exiled Fatah leader Mohammed Dahlan as a go-between with the US-based cleric accused by Turkey of orchestrating the plot, sources close to one of Turkey’s intelligence services told Middle East Eye.

Dahlan is alleged to have transferred money to the plotters in Turkey in the weeks before the coup attempt and to have communicated with Fethullah Gulen

Turkey eyes Dahlan's Role in failed coup

Turkish authorities say they will investigate whether Mohammed Dahlan, a Gulf-based Palestinian opposition leader with Serbian and Montenegrin citizenship, had a hand in the recent failed coup.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 31 2016 18:25 utc | 80

Another headache for Angela. Looks like blackmail.

>On Sunday, Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu told German daily newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) that "if there is no visa liberalization, we will be forced to distance ourselves from the (migrant) readmission agreement."

The Minister also required the European Union to provide a set time for visa-free entry saying that "it can be the beginning or the middle of October, but we expect a firm date."<

Posted by: dh | Jul 31 2016 19:11 utc | 82

What is Erdo planning? He suggested he would give Turkish citizenship to the Syrian refugeed who would ask for it and now presses on eu access.

Posted by: Mina | Jul 31 2016 20:06 utc | 83

@82 Pressing too hard IMO. A lot of EU citizens are going to be very unhappy about this.

Posted by: dh | Jul 31 2016 20:43 utc | 84

Looks like Turkish Gen. 'Backstabber' Arak gets to keep his job. I wasn't aware that the Supreme Military Council (YAS) already met on Friday and made the announcements.

Turkey's council opts to keep military chief unchanged
Supreme Military Council also decides to continue with existing commanders of land, air and naval forces

The Supreme Military Council (up until now) didn't control the military, but made all the decisions on promotions and appointments of senior officers. It was made up of senior military commanders, the prime minister and the defense minister. Erdogan threw out most of the military guys and appointed civilian ministers to their spots on the council. This annual council was traditionally held at the Turkish Pentagon - the General Staff Headquarters. This was changed this year to be held at the Prime Minister's residence in Cankaya Palace. Erdogan doesn't live in that dump any more - he lives in the billion-dollar Ak Saray Castle he had built for himself (apparently by his brother-in-laws).

Erdogan has yet to get the constitution changed to make the military report to the president (him). He did put the army under the Defense Ministry and, by civilian control of the YAS, now effectively has civilian control of the military in Turkey. All in all the fake/botched/backstabber coup was a complete success for Erdogan. Truly a gift from the heavens!

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 31 2016 21:32 utc | 85

Any conscious individual in the UK should try to get out and see THE KILLING$ OF TONY BLAIR which opened a couple of days ago and makes it's way around the country.

It details, among others, his killing if the Labour party, his part in the killing if millions and still rising in the ME...and of course the killing his bank account is making on the 'Speaking Circuit' since leaving office.

It is a crowd funded project.

The Chilcot report didn't stay in the news for long, Blairite hijacking of the Labour helped out there. So it is efforts like these that help bring the real issues back into the mainstream. Bush, Blair and co. ought to see their day on trial sooner rather than later.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jul 31 2016 21:47 utc | 86

Posted by: dh | Jul 31, 2016 4:43:33 PM | 83

Looks like the refugee agreement is dead already as Turkey has other things to do just now.

German political parties use a very anti Erdogan rethoric - as if he did the coup himself - without exception. Somehow I can't see a visa free zone with Turkey, the whole agreement would be useless anyway if Erdogan offers citizenship to the refugees.

Merkel has a huge political headache. A few more terrorist attacks and passions will boil over. At present the discussion is still rational on the surface.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 31 2016 22:06 utc | 87

@77 hegemony cricket

Eric Edelman & Co. ? So many neo-cons, so few countries to overthrow.

The Coming Crisis in U.S.-Turkey Relations

A Possible Re-alignment

On the day of the coup, Putin called Erdogan to assure him that Moscow opposed it. (Obama called later.)

Former, still influential U.S. government officials headed by Eric Edelman (former U.S. ambassador to Turkey, extremely unpopular due to his imperial mentality) addressed an open letter to Erdogan on March 30 of this year. It protested his many violations of human rights. Signed such neocons as Elliot Abrams, Douglas Feith, Robert Kagan, Dennis Ross, Paul Wolfowitz, Anne-Marie Slaughter, and L. Paul Bremmer, it demanded that Erdogan “address these troubling issues” to “strengthen the U.S.-Turkey relationship.”

Some of the above ... have since called for a coup. And ... it’s been reported that retired U.S. Gen. John F. Campbell was involved. On the other hand, former CIA columnist Philip Giraldi, pointing to the immediate crackdown and arrests of thousands, thinks “the uprising was basically a set-up.” Erdogan has even called it a “gift from God,” presumably because it allows his to strike out at his secular opponents with the support of the deeply religious Anatolian peasants who form his base.

In any case, we can be sure that the U.S. will deny any involvement ... and reaffirm its commitment to a democratic Turkey. But it will refuse to extradite Gulen, who has powerful friends in this country, including the Clintons. (His “Alliance for Shared Values” organization has contributed over half a million dollars to the Hillary Clinton campaign and to the Clinton Foundation.)

Is it not possible that, if the U.S. says no to the Gulen extradition demand, the rather temperamental Erdogan will ... turn against a mistrusted U.S. to a reliably business-like Russia?

Moscow ... [is] not concerned with Erdogan’s implementation of John Kerry’s standard of “democracy” necessary to retain NATO membership.

Is it not possible that... Turkey’s leaders will break with the U.S. on the Syrian regime-change program, warm up to Russia once again ... reconcile themselves to the existence of a secular state in Syria... and stand firm in the Gulen extradition demands?

And maybe even ... risk Turkey’s expulsion from NATO. ...

Things are changing. If Britain can quit the EU, Turkey can surely leave (or get booted out of) NATO. Either way is fine. That can only work to restrict NATO’s access to the Black Sea, and its ability to provoke Russia, which can only be good.

Posted by: jfl | Aug 1 2016 10:50 utc | 88

Knesset crushes parliamentary immunity. New Israeli expulsion law effectively puts Arab members of Knesset on probation.

Posted by: Copeland | Aug 1 2016 15:16 utc | 89

Canada Judge Rules That Police Entrapped Couple in Bomb Plot

Posted by: james | Aug 1 2016 16:15 utc | 90

U.S. Begins Airstrikes Against ISIS In Libya

At the request of the Libyan Government of National Accord (GNA), the U.S. military conducted precision airstrikes today against Islamic State targets in Sirte, Libya, Pentagon Press Secretary Peter Cook said in a news release.

The airstrikes — authorized by President Barack Obama following a recommendation from Defense Secretary Ash Carter and Marine Corps Gen. Joe Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff — were in support of GNA-affiliated forces seeking to defeat ISIS in its primary stronghold in Libya, Cook said.

The strikes “are consistent with our approach to combating ISIL by working with capable and motivated local forces,” according to Cook.

“GNA-aligned forces have had success in recapturing territory from ISIL thus far around Sirte, and additional U.S. strikes will continue to target ISIL in Sirte in order to enable the GNA to make a decisive, strategic advance.”

5 Years Later, US Is Carrying Out More Airstrikes in Libya

The United States have launched an open-ended airstrike campaign in Libya against the Islamic State group in what Washington said was a positive response to calls by the U.N.-backed government in Libya.

But U.S. officials said airstrikes are different, marking the start of a sustained air campaign .

The new Libya campaign has been authorized by U.S. President Barack Obama, who previously said the 2011 NATO intervention "didn't work" and was one of the things he regrets the most about his eight years in office.

Rat bastard will be delivering death, devastation, destruction, and deceit to MENA and the world until Hillary is sworn in on 20 January. Then she'll pick up where he left off. Or Trump will be sworn in and - whatever happens - we'll all be 'surprised'.

Posted by: jfl | Aug 2 2016 11:11 utc | 91

I think it was Grieved who posted the link to pages 109 to 745 of Documents illustrative of the formation of the union of the American states, Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 as reported by James Madison. I'm working my way through that, but it's slow going.

I took a break and went after An economic interpretation of the constitution of the United States, 1913, by Charles A. Beard. That link is to my slowly accumulating repost of an html version of the pdf. The pdf, or a pdf, of the book is available as well, linked to here at MoA 12 years ago by b himself. Which goes to show that everything is here at MoA, if we'll just look and find it.

I'm finding the book an incredible resource. I cannot recommend it highly enough. I am not a scholar of the American constitution so I don't know that nothing to surpass Beard's scholarship has been written in the past 103 years ... but I certainly have never seen anything remotely comparable.

Posted by: jfl | Aug 3 2016 14:22 utc | 92

*China’s poor rights record

The Hinkley Point C project is very controversial and a number of people in the UK opposed it right from the beginning due to China’s poor human-rights record, cyber-attacks and intellectual-property violations.*

spare us all these 'human rights' craps.
if the brits are so 'principled' [sic] why are the chagosians still languishing in foreign slums 2000 miles away from home ???
why'r they kissing the murkkans and saudis ass ???

somebody wanna nib china's oversea nuclear investments in its bud.
here's the clue....

*For China, a cancelation would be a huge blow to its international prestige and ambitions. Hinkley Point is China’s first nuclear power project in the West.

Being allowed to design and build nuclear reactors in the UK would be a recognition that China is capable of producing advanced and sophisticated technologies in the field. That would serve as a springboard for Chinese companies to secure similar projects elsewhere.

Three weeks after the official announcement of the Hinkley Point nuclear power station, China and Argentina agreed on a £15-billion deal by which the former would finance and build two nuclear power stations in Argentina.

According to the Financial Times, the cancelation of the Hinkley Point project “would also be seen in China as a slap to Mr Xi himself*

who'd wanna do something like this ?
those who have been using terrorism, regime change, ngo etc to sabotage chinese investments
in africa, afpak, sea and the stans, the same gang who are busy 'derailing' chinese rail way projects in thailand, indonesia,singapore/malaysia.

Posted by: denk | Aug 3 2016 16:38 utc | 93

*During Xi’s visit to the UK, both sides expressed their “strong interest in cooperating on each other’s major initiatives, namely China’s “Belt and Road” initiative and the UK’s National Infrastructure Plan and the Northern PowerHouse.”

Yet, the future of the Northern Powerhouse strategy, a scheme aimed at re-balancing of the UK economy by pushing growth in the North of England, ardently advocated by Cameron and Osborne, is now in doubt.

For many observers, by sacking Osborne from government and dismantling many of the Cameron-Osborne government’s policy plans, May is pursuing an approach to China that contrasts with that of Cameron and Osborne.
.............snipped, the 'human rights' bushit........................

Taking all of these into account, there is a possibility that she may abandon the Hinkley Point project.

Should she decide to abort the scheme, this would have far-reaching implications for UK-China relations.

It would mark the end of the “golden era” in their relationship that just started last year.*

sounds familiar ?
'somebody' has been very busy doing a 'demolition job' on chinese diplomacy.
just last month, washington threw a monkey wrench into the xi-park 'honeymoon',
as per the nyt,
*For China, THAAD in S. Korea Spells Failed Courtship*

*South Korea, China Trade Barbs Over THAAD*
so gloated the jp mouthpiece 'the diplomat'

in mar/16
washington/delhi arm twisted bangladesh to ditch its favored chinese contractor for the jp/indian rivals.

pro beijing sri lankan prez Mahinda Rajapaksa ousted by washington/delhi regime change, new govn immediately stopped chinese port proj [1]

in 12/13,
the xi-yingluck 'romance' [2] came to an abrupt end when the thai pm was removed by a 'color rev'.

less than six months after the xi/najib 'love fest' in kl, 10/13
malaysia's nightmare began....
3 lost airliners, 1 near miss, 1 helicopter.
after the 'disapperance' of mh370,
western msm had a field day crowing on beijing/kl recriminations over the handling of the affair,
the 'diplomat' asked gleefully,
*would it damage china/malaysia relation* ?

pm najib observed
*somebody is trying to drive a wedge bet china/malaysia*
najib is currently under an intense media assault orchestrated in washington.

on 9/09
the centre/left dpj led by Yukio Hatoyama displaced the murkkan lackey ldp in a landslide election victory.
this was his famous 'last words'...
*Also appealing was Hatoyama’s pledge of better relations with China to ease Japan out of its economic doldrums. The incoming leader promised he would reorient his country away from Washington and toward Beijing and neighboring capitals. “We must not forget our identity as a nation located in Asia,” he wrote just days before the election. Specifically, he advocated “the creation of an East Asian community.* [3]

careful there hatoyama san, that kind of bravado could get a man 'liquidated' !
barely 8 months in office, hatoyama was removed by a bloodless coup. [3a]

another of his 'crime' was no doubt about his pledge to kick out the murkkans from okinawa. [4]

hatoyama was lucky, he's still alive.
pro beijing king birendra of nepal was executed, his entirely family wiped out in a palace shootout right after his return from china in 2001.
every nepalese and his dog blamed the washington/delhi axis for the massacre.

cameron started courting china just last yr and heralded the 'golden era' in china/uk relatonship,
uk was the first murkkan 'ally' who rushed to join the chinese initiated aiib, no doubt raising blood pressure in washington.
the xi/cameron grand plan was to make uk china's 'bridge' into eu.

is the newly installed brit pm gonna to pull this 'bridge' right under xi's feet,
was uk under cameron viewed as a 'chinese trojan horse' in washington ?
was david cameron the latest victim of the dreaded chinese kiss of death ???

ironically, washington/delhi's patsy in sri lanka has to crawl back to china to continue the port proj after the murkans/indians failed to step up to plate on investments, apparently they are content with just wrecking the chinese proj for the hell of it.

*The visit has boosted Sino-Thai relations, the Thai Prime Minister highlighted that “Thailand and China are as intimate as relatives” and agreed on developing bilateral relations on cooperation in East Asia. It was particularly helpful for China for the reason that Thailand will become the coordinating country for China ASEAN relations in 2012. This will add impetus to China’s over all relations in the ASEAN region.

Also, Thailand is the only country in ASEAN that does not have any overlapping territorial claims with China in the region. Thai PM re-emphasized Thailand’s support to One-China Policy on Taiwan and Tibet and was appreciative of the assistance given by China during the severe floods. *

*Will Japan Become A Chinese Colony?* [sic !!!]
for the uninitiated, gordon chang is the famous/notorious murkkan wog who has been predicting
'china's collapse' for the past two decades.

A former Japanese diplomat has accused the United States of manipulating Japan since the second world war in order to “eliminate” prime ministers who sought to develop better relations with Beijing.

Government must listen to its people insisting on no new American Marine base on the island, Yukio Hatoyama says.


Posted by: denk | Aug 4 2016 4:22 utc | 94

The shocking story of Israel’s disappeared babies

Racism among European Jews towards Jews from Arab countries reached the very top of the government. Ben Gurion, Israel’s first prime minister, described the Mizrahim as “rabble” and a “generation of the desert”, concluding that they lacked “a trace of Jewish or human education”.

“Mizrahi parents were seen as bad, primitive people who were a lost cause. The dominant view then was that, by placing the children with Ashkenazi families, they could be saved – unlike their parents. They would be re-educated and made into suitable material for the new Zionist state,” [Yael] Tzadok [an Israeli journalist who has spent 20 years investigating cases of children who disappeared] said.

The story of bona fide, government-sponsored, Israeli anti-semitism.

Posted by: jfl | Aug 6 2016 13:15 utc | 95

Those bloodthirsty psychopaths at the Atlantic Council need to be neutralized, pronto. It reminisces of late 1930s and the Brutish Empire pushing Poland into suicidal pact against Germany (while at the same time assuring Hitler that the UK wouldn't intervene in case he invades Poland). At least we know the names of these warmongers, and when push comes to shove...

No joke: U.S. think tank suggests that Poland commits cyber-attacks on Moscow Metro, St. Petersburg power grid and RT offices

Posted by: ProPeace | Aug 6 2016 13:50 utc | 96

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