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July 1, 2016
Open Thread 2016-23
News & views …
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The American sado-neocons seek to destroy the World! Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 1 2016 18:06 utc | 2 “The organizer of the Istanbul airport massacre is a well-known terrorist from Russia’s North Caucasus region who served as a top soldier in the ISIS war ministry, a U.S. official said.” Posted by: ALberto | Jul 1 2016 18:07 utc | 4 I enjoyed reading the obit for Simon Ramo, one of the founding fathers of the military-industrial complex. He was behind the development of the ICBM and the Atlas rocket and was a co-founder of aerospace giant TRW. He predicted, like Elton Musk is currently predicting, that unless we get a handle on it, tech will be our undoing:
Posted by: Mike Maloney | Jul 1 2016 18:15 utc | 5 Sado-NeoCons? Posted by: rg the lg | Jul 1 2016 18:16 utc | 6 “MOSCOW, December 11. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered Russian military to destroy any targets that threaten Russian Armed Forces in Syria. Posted by: ALberto | Jul 1 2016 18:34 utc | 7 Before Brexit I thought that alarms raised in some articles that Brexit can undermine NATO is nonsensical. However, it definitely destabilized English politics (I guess, one has to eschew “British” when we write about the future, and political parties in Northern Island and Scotland are different than in England). UKIP is not “isolationist” as far as I know, but the left of Labor is. Until recently, getting rid of nuclear weapons and refusing participation in “humanitarian interventions” etc. was not a huge issue in England except “some circles” that included most members of LP (Labor Party) but a minuscule number of members of PLP (Parliamentary Labor Party that has one member from Scotland). In other words, sane people were guarding the asylum. Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 1 2016 18:34 utc | 8 Escalation … Posted by: ALberto | Jul 1 2016 18:37 utc | 9 @ Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 1, 2016 2:34:57 PM | 8
guardian. Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jul 1 2016 18:54 utc | 10 re 8
You have a sad failure of understanding of British politics. UKIP is openly “isolationist”, joined by some on the Left. Isolationism is not defined by Left or Right. It is supported by people who have lived their lives majoritarily in white communities, and who fear the “other”, but don’t know it. Much like the supporters of Trump. Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2016 18:58 utc | 11 @9 AL, ‘The planes are equipped with missiles for their defence’ Posted by: jfl | Jul 1 2016 19:05 utc | 12 @8 pb @ lg 11 Posted by: jfl | Jul 1 2016 19:15 utc | 13 @10 suzy, ‘An astounding 60,000 have joined in a week, bringing the total above 440,000, beyond its 1997 peak – extraordinary for a party on the verge of utter disintegration.’ Posted by: jfl | Jul 1 2016 19:25 utc | 14 @4 alberto.. here is my post @37 on the previous thread from yesterday.. Posted by: james | Jul 1 2016 19:46 utc | 15 Why is it sane for people in Britain to want to retain nuclear weapons? What do they get out of it, aside from becoming a target for other people’s nukes? Posted by: lysias | Jul 1 2016 19:59 utc | 16 The Brits are in deep crisis, perhaps to be followed by the US in November. Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2016 19:59 utc | 17 More context on the 2012 DIA ISIS memo… CIA’s Mike Morell wrote a whole Politico editorial about it trying to say it’s unimportant and meaningless: re 13
I would think it means basically returning to the world you thought you knew before, when you weren’t bothered by foreigners, or by non-whites (never happened, of course). Trumpism. Draw up the bridges. Impossible, of course, but folks are not going to believe that in the near future. Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2016 20:18 utc | 19 re 16
It isn’t, but you know, the penis is the most important factor. Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2016 20:31 utc | 20 @ Laguerre | Jul 1, 2016 2:58:21 PM | 11 Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 1 2016 20:40 utc | 21 Posted by: jfl | Jul 1, 2016 3:25:36 PM | 14 Posted by: somebody | Jul 1 2016 20:52 utc | 22 There are a lot of folks who don’t realize that they have been utterly indoctrinated by neoliberal memes … “regulating immigation” (which is extant in all countries) becomes “racist” or “isolationist” or “xenophobic” (which isn’t exactly the same thing but sounds much much worse). Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jul 1 2016 20:54 utc | 23 See Video: Bernie, Please Meet with Jill Stein (See Petition) also I talk about another petition, the YouTube petition in response to YouTube’s unfair policy change. AND BTW, this video is not monetized RIGHT NOW (while uploaded and still as of 11PM EST ) because YouTube treats my channel unfairly. I talk about that situation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN1T0p576gY Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jul 1 2016 20:59 utc | 24 @17 lg, ‘In the end it’s globalisation, which no-one can prevent, and the need of everyone to have income, in order to live. It is this point which has not been addressed by cost-cutting businesses.’ Posted by: jfl | Jul 1 2016 21:10 utc | 25 re 21
I take it that you are offended by the American reference. I pretend no knowledge of the States, but it seems to me very similar to the motivations of the Brits. A perfect storm seems to me in waiting. Two disgusting candidates will finish with an open result. Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2016 21:32 utc | 27 re 25
I wish you the best of luck with that. Globalisation is not going to be rolled back. What business leaders have to understand is that cutting people means nobody to buy their products. The effect may be indirect, as the products are made in China, and the fired people may have unemployment pay. But the result will be the same in the end. Popular revolt, perhaps expressed as vote for Trump, or for Brexit. Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1 2016 21:53 utc | 28 ALberto #4. That was what royally pixxed me off. They linked the terrorists to Russia in peoples’ minds via the headlines. But they’re really Chechen. Posted by: Curtis | Jul 1 2016 21:53 utc | 29 I found this article on Brexit, its reasons and aftermath useful, http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article45013.htm Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 1 2016 22:10 utc | 30 Turns out both Bill Clinton and Donald Trump are tied up with billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein: Why the Donald Trump child rape lawsuit is credible and can’t be dismissed. Posted by: lysias | Jul 1 2016 22:24 utc | 31 Read on Billmon’s twitter feed:
Wonder if there’s a connection between that and Erdogan repairing relations with both Israel and Russia. Posted by: lysias | Jul 1 2016 22:50 utc | 32 Back on OT 2016-20 I discussed some of the activities of the Crimean Tatars, particularly their militia and the “blockade” of Crimea, see my nr. 128.
Yurasumy also notes that the Tatars Celebicihan has debuted its flag. Yurasumy suggests a similarity with the ISIS flag, but I thought that it was marginal. Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 1 2016 23:12 utc | 33 A SIMPLE SOLUTION Posted by: Uk Tahder | Jul 2 2016 0:27 utc | 34 @ 17 Posted by: Forest | Jul 2 2016 1:27 utc | 35 RETIRED U.S. AIR FORCE Gen. Philip Breedlove, until recently the supreme commander of NATO forces in Europe, plotted in private to overcome President Barack Obama’s reluctance to escalate military tensions with Russia over the war in Ukraine in 2014, according to apparently hacked emails from Breedlove’s Gmail account that were posted on a new website called DC Leaks. Posted by: Les | Jul 2 2016 1:30 utc | 36 Come on people: neo-liberalism is the same as colonialism in the 13th through 20th century. I know you find Andre Vltchek anathema because he calls out the west for it’s desire to take from the rest of the world … thus both Bernie and Trump are not asking for anything more or less than a return to the good old days when the 1% at least pretended to share … . Or call it the New Deal, or whatever, but fairness stops at the borders of our enclave and those little not-white folks be damned! Posted by: rg the lg | Jul 2 2016 2:00 utc | 37 M K Bhadrakumar’s comments in today’s article.. Turkey needs help, Russia scrambles Posted by: james | Jul 2 2016 2:09 utc | 38 @ Laguerre | Jul 1, 2016 5:32:36 PM | 27 Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 2 2016 2:18 utc | 39 in re 37 — Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 2 2016 2:36 utc | 40 laguerre, jfl: laguerre is confused because “internationalist” had some connotation is Communist and Socialist movements, each having its International organization and each singing “International” at occasion. But in the recent “neocon” usage this means readiness to apply force to defend human rights, free trade etc. Readiness to make desert and call it peace (although, in practice, without the efficiency of late Roman Republic or early Roman Empire). Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 2 2016 3:36 utc | 42 My heart bleeds for the suffering of the internationalists in PLP (see above for the explanations of both terms). Where is a humanitarian intervention when they need it? Proper functioning of democracy requires some mechanism for removing “disastrous leaders”, and in case when the rascal are not only disastrous but also popular, making sure that they are not only removed but also prevented from running for office. I call it “Aristide treatment”: US marines packed him into a plane and send to Africa, and American diplomacy made sure that he can never return to his homeland. Why Corbyn problem cannot be solved in the same way? Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 2 2016 3:47 utc | 43 Rufus: Posted by: rg the lg | Jul 2 2016 3:54 utc | 44 Re 18, thanks Brad. I’ve bookmarked your article, as well as your webpage. Posted by: William Rood | Jul 2 2016 4:20 utc | 45 nmb @ 1: The Neo-feudalism offered by advocates of Globalism is the new religion of the elites. And, like most religions, isn’t based on reason, but myths held by some, to convince one another of their superiority. Posted by: ben | Jul 2 2016 6:27 utc | 46 @ rg the lg | Jul 1, 2016 11:54:22 PM | 44 Posted by: Jack Smith | Jul 2 2016 6:34 utc | 47 @ 39 (edit) Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 2 2016 8:21 utc | 48 Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 1, 2016 3:59:49 PM | 17 Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2016 10:50 utc | 49 Nato General plotting against Obama on Russia policy Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2016 11:50 utc | 50 @38 james, ‘Turkey needs help, Russia scrambles’ Bhadrakumar Posted by: jfl | Jul 2 2016 12:29 utc | 52 @50 sb, ‘Obama defied political pressure from hawks in Congress and the military to provide lethal assistance to the Ukrainian government’ Posted by: jfl | Jul 2 2016 12:34 utc | 53 11;Do you know any supporters of Trump to make that call of ignorance? Posted by: dahoit | Jul 2 2016 13:05 utc | 54 Posted by: jfl | Jul 2, 2016 8:34:02 AM | 52 Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2016 13:06 utc | 55 Wasn’t the modern world invented by Europeans?Are the Chinese,Japanese,Indonesians,Brazilians,Africans trying to be like us or we like them? Posted by: dahoit | Jul 2 2016 13:19 utc | 56 THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING Posted by: okie farmer | Jul 2 2016 13:40 utc | 57 Before you attack – keep in mind that I was in SE Asia in 1965 – 1967; a little country called Vietnam. Posted by: rg the lg | Jul 2 2016 13:43 utc | 58 49 Posted by: Roitan | Jul 2 2016 13:54 utc | 59 Posted by: dahoit | Jul 2, 2016 9:19:57 AM | 55 Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2016 13:58 utc | 60 Not only Ahmed Chataev is not Russian but Chechen, but he has been wanted by the russian on terorrism charges for years. In 2011, an EU court blocked his extradition to Russia from Bulgaria. @ rg the lg | Jul 2, 2016 9:43:51 AM | 57 Posted by: V. Arnold | Jul 2 2016 14:11 utc | 62 57 Posted by: Roitan | Jul 2 2016 14:12 utc | 63 Roitan | Jul 2, 2016 10:12:53 AM | 62 Posted by: V. Arnold | Jul 2 2016 14:17 utc | 64 Since many years — debate as to which country would leave the EU first. (Brexit ain’t a done deal..) Posted by: Noirette | Jul 2 2016 14:23 utc | 65 63 Posted by: Roitan | Jul 2 2016 14:35 utc | 66 To Piotr, other thread. Piotr post 78 Posted by: Noirette | Jul 2 2016 14:42 utc | 67 @okie farmer | Jul 2, 2016 9:40:03 AM | 56 Posted by: Jack Smith | Jul 2 2016 15:02 utc | 68 Good analysis on what is going on in Britain by Kevin Ovenden Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2016 15:12 utc | 69 It boggles the mind how twisted this Saudi’s logic is – he places all responsibility for the deaths of “400 thousand Syrian citizens and caused the displacement of another 12 million” solely on Assad’s shoulders. Inferring that if only Assad had handed the keys to Syria over to the Gulf Arab states long ago these lives wouldn’t have been lost or displaced. Thus, only Assad is responsible for the carnage. Spotlight with Sibel & Spiro- Istanbul Airport Terror: Glaring Unasked & Unanswered Questions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1RU72mtZF8 Posted by: Terry | Jul 2 2016 15:35 utc | 71 @51 jfl.. yes to that.. i triple your last comment which is a comment from b4real. Posted by: james | Jul 2 2016 15:51 utc | 72 @ rg the lg | Jul 1, 2016 2:16:22 PM | 6 Posted by: blues | Jul 2 2016 15:59 utc | 73 in re 44 — Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 2 2016 16:28 utc | 74 Very interesting read … Posted by: ALberto | Jul 2 2016 16:56 utc | 75 July 2, 2016 – You cannot make this stuff up … Posted by: ALberto | Jul 2 2016 17:40 utc | 76 Re: @36, @74, “Breedlove”. Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 2 2016 17:48 utc | 77 Turkey’s dumping of its old allies, Al Nusra, may increase the risks of terrorists retaliations within Turkey. It will also make the ‘moderate’ Syrian opposition insignificant. How will Qatar and Saudi Arabia react to that backstabbing coming from their “ally” Erdogan? Posted by: virgile | Jul 2 2016 18:02 utc | 78 @ Susan Sunflower | Jul 1, 2016 4:54:48 PM | 23 Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 2 2016 19:56 utc | 79 virgile @77 Posted by: ToivoS | Jul 2 2016 20:05 utc | 80 Rufus: Posted by: rg the lg | Jul 2 2016 20:50 utc | 81 Posted by: lysias | Jul 1, 2016 6:50:18 PM | 32
Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2016 21:36 utc | 82 @68 sb, ‘ It is that in the next three months, a hiatus which Cameron swiftly decided upon in the early hours following his referendum defeat, the labour movement might assert in this national political crisis the independent interests of working people against a capitalist Establishment reeling from popular rejection at the polls. Posted by: jfl | Jul 2 2016 21:44 utc | 83 The only thing that gives me hope in this world run by madmen, Posted by: Anon02July | Jul 2 2016 21:50 utc | 84 @81 sb Posted by: jfl | Jul 2 2016 21:56 utc | 85 @83 a2j, ‘Hopefully some extraterrestrial civilisation has a sense of benevolence.’ Posted by: jfl | Jul 2 2016 22:06 utc | 86 @77 I’m not buying Erdogan’s new found religion. Another set of patriot batteries are soon to be in place on Turkey’s southern border, the switch by the SDF from a Raqqa focused attack to Manbij represents a more easily defensable area from the Kurdish point of view, and HillbillRAH-hotep’s slouching towards Bethlehem to be born is nearly complete , so getting Russia on board (entrapped into? )for the Clinton’s next Kosovo-like victory in Syria is important. Posted by: wwinsti | Jul 2 2016 23:00 utc | 87 Posted by: jfl | Jul 2, 2016 5:56:02 PM | 84 Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2016 23:02 utc | 88 Jaysh al-Islam.. another one of those ”moderate” rebel groups considered signed on to the party on cessation of hostilities in syria – the group that captured the syrian pilot.. “The group along with Ahrar ash-Sham are the main rebel groups supported by Turkey and Saudi Arabia.[38] The group aims to create an Islamic state under Sharia law.[39][40] Syria, Russia, Iran, and Egypt have designated Jaysh al-Islam as a terrorist organization.” wikipedia quote… meanwhile – usa state dept. spokesperson john kirby is pointedly asked on this topic and replies with the usual evasiveness only outdone by the propaganda opportunity he also capitalizes over the same questions… quite the circus show at the “U.S. Department of State – Daily Briefing: July.01.2016” if interested – 3 minute video here… Posted by: james | Jul 2 2016 23:19 utc | 89 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ozone-hole-shrinks-montreal-treaty_us_577684c8e4b04164640f9cd8?section= Posted by: Uk Tahder | Jul 3 2016 0:50 utc | 90 83 Posted by: Uk Tahder | Jul 3 2016 1:11 utc | 91 But Hillary isn’t Jewish. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-hillary-clinton_us_5777e61fe4b09b4c43c0afb4 And Trump supports what is considered by many to be mainstream Jewish interests such as being over the top supportive of Israel. “Mr. Trump regularly touts his close ties to Jewish people, noting that his daughter Ivanka converted to Judaism when she married her husband, Jared Kushner. He also has promised to make the security of Israel a top priority if he is elected president.” I think Trump’s graphic designer just used a star shape. And I personally have never seen someone try to depict a star of david using a solid color red. When some in the media refer to it as a “Star of David” instead of a 6 point star or Hexagram star shape, they are manipulating people. I am no fan of Trump BTW: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfrlsC1yJ2dT68_Hur1jfMts7n_QMnx45 Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jul 3 2016 1:20 utc | 92 ToivoS@79 Posted by: virgile | Jul 3 2016 1:26 utc | 93 87 Posted by: Uk Tahder | Jul 3 2016 1:56 utc | 94 69 Posted by: Uk Tahder | Jul 3 2016 2:38 utc | 95 So, infinite moral retrofitting then. There is no historical explanation, only petty-bourgeois moralism and volunatarism. Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 3 2016 3:09 utc | 96 Erdogan’s apology – there are many layers to its nature, and there is really no one single thing as a cause. Turkey has half a dozen good reasons to make up to Russia, and the Saker has a good list in his latest Unz Review article: Turkey on the Ropes.
We know that Erdogan likes to act as the rugged individual, and also that his moves have all failed. The apology is the beginning of national reason, larger than one man. To think that Erdogan may do this or may do that – as if he had the room to be arbitrary anymore – is to miss the importance of the apology, the attempted rapprochement. We must wait and watch, but it almost seems as if even Erdogan is no longer being allowed the space to be capricious – that perhaps a stronger force for survival is at work in Turkey. With luck, those old days are over. Posted by: Grieved | Jul 3 2016 4:15 utc | 97 Blue @72: Posted by: rg the lg | Jul 3 2016 4:24 utc | 98 Israel and Turkey Officially Announce Rapprochement Deal, Ending Diplomatic Crisis
Erdogan has betrayed the Palestinians … probably cooperating with the Israelis’ hocus-pocus theft, @87, of Palestinian gas off the coast of Gaza. Posted by: jfl | Jul 3 2016 5:16 utc | 99 I a seeing lots of opinions and parsing of BREXIT statistics around the web. The one I want to share is as follows: Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 3 2016 5:31 utc | 100 |
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