Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 17, 2016
NYT Pampers Erdogan – Declares Secularism To Be Extreme

In its coverage of the coup attempt in Turkey the New York Times asserts that being a secularist is "extreme":

Turkey’s politics was for decades divided between secularists and Islamists, but both Mr. Erdogan and Mr. Gulen have occupied a middle ground between these two extremes.

Secularism is:

the view that public education and other matters of civil policy should be conducted without the introduction of a religious element.

Secularism is the basis of all modern democracies. How is that extreme?

Erdogan as well as Gülen are Islamists. They both believe in the primacy of religion. (Though Gülen's alleged $25 billion charter school empire, his ties to the CIA and to the Clinton Foundation cast doubt on any claim that he is driven by religious morality.) Erdogan called the coup a "gift of god".

In the same piece the NYT also asserts that:

Mr. Erdogan’s Turkey has been a reliable American ally and partner in the fight against the Islamic State.

That will be news to the Pentagon. It took years for Erdogan to take any concern about the Islamic State serious. His country still has a mostly open border policy towards the Islamic State. He just stopped U.S. air operation against the Islamic State in Syria by closing the Incirlik airbase. A move designed to pressure the U.S. to deliver Gülen, who resides in Pennsylvania and is Erdogan's arch enemy, to Turkey. Is that really a "reliable ally and partner"?

Had the amateurish coup succeeded democracy in Turkey would have been suspended for some years. Now, that Erdogan has won. he is launching an astonishingly well prepared cleansing campaign. Thousands of soldiers, including many officers unrelated to the "coup", have been detained. Some 3,000 judges, a fifth of the judiciary, have been suspended. Hundreds of them, including supreme court judges, have been jailed. Independent news-sites get closed, editors are rounded up. Erdogan calls on his Islamist followers to occupy the streets. They attack Syrian refugees, Kurdish and Alevi neighborhoods. Democracy in Turkey is now lost for decades.

To pamper Erdogan by redefining moral norms, as the NYT does, will not better the situation of the Turkish people or of anyone else exposed to Erdogan's whims.

Comments

@98, grieved, ‘The only thing I see currently that doesn’t parse is the report that the rebel jets shadowing Erdogan’s plane, and apparently locked on, refrained from firing. I don’t think we know why yet. If this whole thing was theater, was it really necessary to get that chancy with a detail that could kill Erdogan, and that was not at all necessary to the script development? Is he really that trusting or tightly in control? I await more information on this one.’
1. did it really happen? Another great story for Erdogan to tell post-coup, in any case.
If it did happen … what was the stage of the coup at that time?
2a. Maybe they thought they still had a good chance yet of ‘taking him alive’?
2b. Maybe they knew they’d already lost and decided that they themselves might yet live if they didn’t pop the godfather?
I do think that the coupsters were encouraged by some outside power – NATO/Israel/KSA/… – and that an important part of the Turkish military was understood by the coupsters to be on their side – but it wasn’t. Instead those officers betrayed the coup to Erdogan, and deferred to him as to how to handle it. The rest is history … or will be if that’s what actually went down.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 18 2016 5:58 utc | 101

One of the puzzling aspects of the failed coup is that the plotters went to a place where Erdogan was supposed to be, but didn’t find out until they arrived that he wasn’t there. That’s a monumental stuff-up and lends weight to the theory first expounded by hejiminy cricket that Erdogan was warned, by Russia, that the US was plotting a coup – along with suggestions on how best to deal with it.
However, it’s equally, if not more likely that Turkey’s Intel services got wind of the plot and Erdogan turned it to his advantage. It’s also likely that Turkish Intel services were able to easily infiltrate the (under-manned) plotters and obtain info sufficiently detailed and accurate to pull off his “disappearance” with such exquisite timing.
Imo, Erdogan’s megalomania has inspired him to overplay his hand prematurely and when Turks realise that his intention is to make himself a God-King, they’ll revolt.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 18 2016 7:30 utc | 102

I don’t buy the meme that Turks, or anyone else, crave a leader with so much God-like power that it’s dangerous to disagree with Him. Turks vote and the invitation to vote carries an implicit promise to respect, and heed, the Will Of The People.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 18 2016 7:45 utc | 103

@ Paveway et al– some cogent views on Turkey-Erdogan-Gulencia from Sybil Edmonds, just out:
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2016/07/18/newsbud-sibel-edmonds-dissects-the-turkey-coup-attempt-a-cia-gulen-concocted-dry-run/
Alternate link:
https://youtu.be/IXiBvdvyr2E
Includes call to Turkish citizens for direct action.

Posted by: chu teh | Jul 18 2016 8:02 utc | 104

…and covert Gulen-Clinton Fdn birthing mid-90s.

Posted by: chu teh | Jul 18 2016 8:07 utc | 105

96
It’s especially easy to delude ourselves if we live expatriate from the USA, where every day isn’t
media-saturated with the Zionist Media Exceptionalist Ubers meme, that we can all have schnapps and
sponge cake ‘when the NeoCons collapse’, seems to be the trope issuing from MoA, …but in truth,
the NeoCons aren’t gonna collapse, any more than the drug and oil cartels are. That’s just psyop.
The reality is that NeoCons are rapidly consolidating their financial and power base, and if any-
thing, what’s going to collapse is populism and the American safety-net dream. It’s all maxed out.
The only wealth left in the world, that’s not tied up in resource grabs, is the Fifth Quintile, the
US and EU elders with their savings and life pensions. All that’s in the crosshairs of the Elites.
Once the Goldman-Trump-Clinton Wehrmacht takes over USA, do you really think the EU will prosper
against China and ASEAN finance? China and ASEAN will eat EU’s lunch! You’ll be like RU after USSR.
You’ll have your natty little overpriced kuchen and kaffe, as your world grows increasingly insular.
EU Central Bank will keep injecting quid, until your EU alliance is another fiat paper Goldman con.
“The S&P 500 is now in record territory!! Is it time to get back into the market?!” Squawk Box, lol.

Posted by: Roitan | Jul 18 2016 8:24 utc | 106

From The Hague
A coup have no place in a parliamentary society as Turkey, why do you support a coup in Turkey but not in Ukraine (which I assume you do not?).
Toivos
Ok, yes I sometimes went there so I remember your name,
yeah sad that the blog just stopped without any notice at all.

Posted by: Golan | Jul 18 2016 8:30 utc | 107

For a while, I thought that Turkey was ideally positioned to leverage the crisis in Syria to emerge as the new center of stability, power and authority in the region. That chance is blown, along with any prospects of joining the EU.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jul 18 2016 9:25 utc | 108

Roitan | Jul 18, 2016 4:24:10 AM | 105
I hate sponge cake. As a self exiled (I don’t consider myself an ex-patriot) Usian; I find your post very relevant and probably spot on.
Fortunately I have not deluded myself and fully expect the worst; so, I’ll likely win the death bet at the ripe old age of 71, but not too soon; it’s still a very interesting show, no?

Posted by: V. Arnold | Jul 18 2016 9:34 utc | 109

“Secularism is:
the view that public education and other matters of civil policy should be conducted without the introduction of a religious element.
Secularism is the basis of all modern democracies. How is that extreme?”
So then secularism is a lie, i.e., secularism is a religion. All people and institutions contain a religious element, i.e., an element of moral preference fundamentally not based on empirical observation. The most raging, fanatical, bigoted religion of our time is secularism.

Posted by: Ezra Pound | Jul 18 2016 12:39 utc | 110

Ezra Pound
Indeed, liberal wars by nato/US/EU are built on this extremist view.

Posted by: Golan | Jul 18 2016 13:10 utc | 111

Really bad parsing. That one is at the extreme poles of opinion, as The Old Grey Lady places Islamist vs. secularists, does not necessarily make either an extremist. ‘Cuz if the Kemalists are, then the Islamists are extremist as well.
What I don’t get is how Erodgan is a moderate. The mystical, democratic Gulenists, I get that. But Erdogan leads an Islamist party, right?

Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 18 2016 22:04 utc | 112

Back from the dead to promote an earlier “raging, fanatical, bigoted religion”, eh, Ezra? Webcast on Rome Radio? Or rather, Radio Kyiv?
Ethical principles can easily be separated from theology. Unless you’re a raging, fanatical, bigoted true believer, of course.
Take the Ten Commandments. Drop the Deity-specific worship instructions, the rest are solid, logical rules for social life. I always liked the carpenter from Nazareth’s abridged version. Do unto others as you would have them do unto.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 18 2016 22:23 utc | 113

chu teh@104 – Thanks for the link, chu teh. Haven’t had time to watch it yet, but Edmonds never disappoints.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 18 2016 23:29 utc | 114

@ Ezra Pound | Jul 18, 2016 8:39:52 AM | 110
{QUOTE} “So then secularism is a lie, i.e., secularism is a religion. All people and institutions contain a religious element, i.e., an element of moral preference fundamentally not based on empirical observation. The most raging, fanatical, bigoted religion of our time is secularism.” {UNQUOTE} — Ezra Pound
Actually this is stupid absurd nonsense.
Different people have different ways of confronting the unimaginable. For some it’s organized religion. More and more it’s personal religion. And some have the atheist perspective.
Secularism is the idea that people have the right to see it their own way, without government interference.
So why should governments interfere with our personal beliefs?
Some good reason???

Posted by: blues | Jul 19 2016 1:02 utc | 115

rufus magister says:
Ethical principles can easily be separated from theology
oh yeah?
the mercenary conditioning of nearly a hundred years of hollywood/madison ave dogma seems fairly uninfringed to me.
hollywood/madison ave being, of course, ‘the mother of all madrasas’

Posted by: john | Jul 19 2016 10:47 utc | 116

Gee, I don’t seem to recall Daniel Craig and Lady Gaga executing unbelievers and raping the widows…. Is “uninfringed” even a word?

Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 19 2016 11:52 utc | 117

Hey blues — well said. It’s veil of tears, I don’t begrudge folks their comfort. As long as they don’t demand that I sign on, too.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 19 2016 12:13 utc | 118

rufus magister
Daniel Craig and Lady Gaga are products of an economic system that depends on, that quite literally, banks on, the ‘rape’ and ‘execution’ of entire ‘unbelieving’ nations.
Is “uninfringed” even a word?
well, if seeing is believing.

Posted by: john | Jul 19 2016 14:47 utc | 120

So metaphoric “rape” and “execution” count, then?
Don’t all systems of exploitation rest on coercion? I’m sure the slave raids by Arabic traders and the Chinese expansion south and west were all totally non-violent.
But none of that really addresses rational ethics; it’s an emotional appeal to dodge the question.
Um, I don’t see that “infringed” is same as “uninfringed,” so no belief.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jul 19 2016 23:27 utc | 121

rufus magister
So metaphoric “rape” and “execution” count, then?
20 million corpses(and counting), and god knows how many millions of other lives destroyed, just since WW2, lends a certain relevant gravitas to my metaphors, no?
But none of that really addresses rational ethics; it’s an emotional appeal to dodge the question
you mean like what’s less wrong, or less evil? in my book, there’s nothing less wrong or less evil.
Um, I don’t see that “infringed” is same as “uninfringed,” so no belief
’cause you didn’t scroll down to ‘related forms’…
you should be a more thorough

Posted by: john | Jul 20 2016 9:27 utc | 122