Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 12, 2016

Orlando Killer Was NYPD Fan - This Tells Us What?

Last night some deadbeat loser killed more than 50 people in a gay club in Orlando, Florida. It is the largest shooting massacre in the U.S. since Wounded Knee. According to his ex-wife the man, one Omar Mateen, used to beat her and was not religious. He had worked for the private prison and mercenary corporation G4S for more than five years. There were U.S. Marines stickers on his car.

Earlier Mateen took pictures of himself and posted those on Myspace. The pics are selfies and mostly not remarkable but in TWO of them he wears shirts with New York Police Department emblems on them.

(pictures flipped for better readability)

This tells us what?

  • The guy was a follower of the NYPD?
  • He had pledged allegiance to the NYPD?
  • G4S or the NYPD radicalized him and taught him to hate gays?

There is currently a lot of speculation, but no public evidence, that the guy was also a fan of the Islamic State (ISIS) death cult. None of the pictures he posted points into that direction, but it still may be the case.

But what does that really tell us?

Was his emotional relation to ISIS as strong as his emotional relation to the NYPD?

Do such assumed allegiances tell us anything at all?

Posted by b on June 12, 2016 at 17:18 UTC | Permalink

next page »

His father says it had nothing to do with religion.

Posted by: dh | Jun 12 2016 17:25 utc | 1

Great, now we will hear about the phony isis threat again for weeks and that this is the "true islam." Sigh.

Posted by: Rob | Jun 12 2016 17:50 utc | 2

thanks b.. what a horrible event...

i see where you are going with the questions... must mean nypd is a terrorist group - applying msm logic...

Posted by: james | Jun 12 2016 18:04 utc | 3

WNYC is spending the afternoon talking about what is known, what might be known, what is possible, yada, yada.

Rule One -- Almost everything reported initially will be wrong and will change.

It seems to me that by the time all the knowable (and releasable) facts come out, the media has moved on to some other horror, titillation, or scandal. And most people will remember mostly what was dished out in the day or so after the tragedy such as today's killing of at least 51 people.

BTW, almost every count I've heard is 50 dead, 53 in hospital, and the shooter also killed. As if he wasn't worthy of being included in the group labeled "people." What would be wrong with saying simply 51 or whatever number is correctly know, including the shooter.

Posted by: jawbone | Jun 12 2016 18:10 utc | 4

Apparently at some point he got religious, because he called 911 and pledged allegiance to the religious death cult ISIS shortly before he commenced his terrorist act:

I'm interested in the ramifications this is going have on the presidential race. A registered Democrat ISIS terrorist, whose parents are Muslim immigrants, and who held one of the most difficult to get firearms licences in Florida, did this. Right or wring, I bet these points are going to be thoroughly harped on by at least one candidate in the days to come.

Posted by: jgordon | Jun 12 2016 18:14 utc | 5

"Three days ago - Major Muslim ISIS Terrorists Makes Declaration To target Florida "

I wonder how much hay the next POTUS will make of this .

Posted by: Terry | Jun 12 2016 18:28 utc | 6

Does the borderline 1:1 ratio of fatalities to injured say anything, especially combined with the horrifyingly high number of casualties? Seem like injuries are usually in excess.

It's disconcerting that there are enough of these for me to make such a statement.

Posted by: IhaveLittleToAdd | Jun 12 2016 18:28 utc | 7

@5 At first sight it looks like a boost for Trump. Depends how he chooses to play it. Exploiting a tragedy may not look good.

But jawbone @4 has a point. By September it will be old news.

Posted by: dh | Jun 12 2016 18:31 utc | 8

all the dead & injured -- how many killed/wounded by shooter & how many by police? we'll wait for forensic reports, surely they will be dispositive.

what went on between 2:00am and 5:00am? How many were dead at 3:00am?

Posted by: Croesus | Jun 12 2016 18:37 utc | 9

""ISIS 'kill list' targets Palm Beach, Treasure Coast residents: Ex-FBI agent""

""Reports of the list came to light online when Vocativ reported the list was shared via the encrypted app, Telegram, and called on supporters to kill.

Former FBI agent-turned lawyer Stuart Kaplan says the threat is especially alarming, because the people on this list are civilians who don't have the security necessary to protect themselves.

"It's going to create some hysteria," he said.

Kaplan believes civilians from our community are on the list.

"I would suspect a head of a hospital or, perhaps, a local community leader. Those are the individuals that may appear on the list--or just a local banker or local school teacher--someone who, for some reason, was in the public eye."

Posted by: Terry | Jun 12 2016 18:49 utc | 10

biggest mass shooting in US history.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 12 2016 18:49 utc | 11

@11, yes, seems to be a universal 'talking point' when officialdom speaks about the tragedy.

Posted by: h | Jun 12 2016 19:19 utc | 12

But what does that really tell us?

In the United States of AmeriKKKa the psychopath is King and Happiness Is A Warm Gun.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 12 2016 19:31 utc | 13

Appears Omar Mateen's dad is/was political in Afghanistan - Seddique Mateen Presidential Candidate -

This tragedy was made political by 10 am this morning. Nelson, Feinstein, Schiff, Sessions, Trump and Rubio have all had their say pushing anon sources saying the guy was radicalized all the while his own dad and ex wife are saying the guy wasn't a devout practitioner of any religion.

As for the NYPD link, well, nothing would surprise me anymore. But I doubt any trepid lamestream journalist would dare delve to learn what the connection, if there is one, may be.

Posted by: h | Jun 12 2016 19:36 utc | 14

This dog is being wagged real hard. By all the different Tails(tales).

Posted by: noman | Jun 12 2016 19:37 utc | 15

add #13.
In the United States of AmeriKKKa the King is a psychopath and Happiness Is A Warm Gun.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 12 2016 19:38 utc | 16

Land of the Shooting Spree and Home of the Depraved.

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 12 2016 19:43 utc | 17

@jeremyscahill - Omar Mateen worked for G4S, one of the largest mercenary firms. Their operatives are deployed in scores of countries, including war zones.

We're getting closer to the NYPD, eh?

Posted by: h | Jun 12 2016 19:49 utc | 18

Here in Australia, the cowardly dispicable Guardian Australia online "news" website predictably didn't go with theNYPD T-shirt images but with with the attacker wearing Black 'Muslim' clothing on, in the style of ISIS.

If the same thing happens in the US , Trump will be so much closer to president, even if it is mitigated by his gay hating right wing fucktard supporters who were massacred

Posted by: tom | Jun 12 2016 20:55 utc | 19

That's gays that were massacred

Posted by: tom | Jun 12 2016 20:57 utc | 20

And it comes as no surprise "Donald Trump couldn't resist making the deadliest mass shooing in American history all about himself.
The presumptive Republican nominee tweeted that Omar Mateen's slaughter of 50 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, proves he was right about the threat of Muslim terrorists."

Posted by: Terry | Jun 12 2016 21:04 utc | 21

@21 -- And I'm willing to bet that most people who aren't pearl-clutching Hillarybots are thinking something along the lines of "damn, he was right." Pearl clutching is not a winning strategy this year.

Posted by: jgordon | Jun 12 2016 21:21 utc | 22

This isn't the "worst shooting in American history." Many Massacres of Native Americans; the Massacre of the Branch Dravidians at Waco, Texas; and numerous attacks against striking workers, such as the Ludlow Massacre and Blair Mountain events; saw more people killed by government forces than by this one shooter. "Worst Shooting Ever" is just another Big Lie from the well known Propaganda System. At least b said worst since Wounded Knee, but that's also incorrect.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 12 2016 21:38 utc | 23

I read recently that the FBI is coming under the microscope for ensnaring and entrapping young Muslims into accepting airline tickets to Syria(via Turkey)on the idea they were joining the jihadi's.The also were reported to ship vulnerable youths fake weapons by mail after a informant would deceive said victims, then arrest them.All so the FBI can show it's 'numbers' as being good. Something just doesn't add up here. Of course, now Homeland,FBI and co. will receive all the funding increases they could ever dream of. Like any good detective, one should ask who stands to benefit the most from this.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 12 2016 21:50 utc | 24

There were two directions for to take this. One was mass murder + hate crime OR mass murder + terrorist attack. After a statement about losses could have followed an LGBT support statement. But terrorism is stressed to amp up the levels of support for the war agenda. Of course, the LGBT angle is implied so maybe they're not allowing this crisis to go to waste and hitting two things at once. So he claimed ISIS inspiration. If ISIS didn't exist would he have declared al Qaeda inspiration?

Posted by: Curtis | Jun 12 2016 21:51 utc | 25

#23 You beat me to it.


That's because Amerika never admits to what they did to Native Americans. Just saying.

Posted by: jo6pac | Jun 12 2016 21:55 utc | 26

Good point #23. Not the worst.

Obama made a statement including LGBT considerations but still says act of terrorism. It looks like most big crimes in the US will now be called Acts of Terrorism™.

Posted by: Curtis | Jun 12 2016 22:04 utc | 27

Conveniently Omar Mateen was shot dead by a SWAT team so we will never know if he had an accomplice who snuck out during the chaos and is in hiding.

The Orlando nightclub shooting looks suspiciously similar to the shooting that took place in the concert hall in Paris in November 2015. Both shootings took place in crowded and closed venues where loud music was playing and coloured lights might have been flashing on and off.

Very possible that some of the dead were killed by SWAT police as well.

I am beginning to smell the makings of a false flag attack aimed at demonising American Muslims even more and inuring people generally to greater police control and violence.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 12 2016 22:32 utc | 28

IhaveLittleToAdd @ 7:

People may have been stampeding for the exits and some unfortunately got crushed and trampled on.

Also people lining up at a fire exit and trying to get out may present easy targets with their backs to the killer, especially if the fire exit is at one end of a passage and the killer is at the other end.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 12 2016 22:38 utc | 29

Moslem families worldwide, especially Pakistani Sunnis, are know to be extremely homophobic.
The guy was obviously a repressed gay and could not come out because of fear of his religious family. He could have been recruited by ISIS and he accepted so as to hide the real homophobic meaning of his action.
Florida is a homophobic state: I heard on NPR that in Florida, employers have the right to fire an employee just on the basis he is gay. Therefore gays there are considered second class citizens, then no wonder they can be victims of violent acts especially from Moslem youth stuck in the Islamic closet.
Moslem immigrants should attend mandatory classes so they learn to accept the gay style life of the Western cultures, before they are allowed to reside in the USA.

Posted by: virgile | Jun 12 2016 22:49 utc | 30

Jen #28,

A prerequisite for a successful false flag operation is a creditable patsy. Sounds like Omar could have been groomed. No claims on my part just seeing patterns familiar from past history

Posted by: juannie | Jun 12 2016 22:58 utc | 31

Interesting analysis ...

"On The Last Night Of 611 ISIS Gunman Told 911 His Allegiance And Then Carried Out The Orlando False Flag Massacre: ISIS Is An NWO CIA Mossad Proxy Army"

source -

611! Get it?

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 12 2016 23:01 utc | 32

To carry out this atrocity, Mateen must have had training. Who provided it?

Posted by: lysias | Jun 12 2016 23:19 utc | 33

Marteen works for Jupiter Florida security company G4S ...

"The firm is called G4S and claims to be the world’s leading security solutions group with operations in more than 100 countries and 610,000 employees. G4S has more than 50,000 employees in the U.S. and its domestic headquarters is in Jupiter, Florida. Judicial Watch is filing a number of public records requests to get more information involving the arrangement between G4S and the government, specifically the transport of illegal immigrants from the Mexican border to other parts of the country."

source -

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 12 2016 23:21 utc | 34

If it was false flag, ensuring Trump's election may have been the motive.

Posted by: lysias | Jun 12 2016 23:21 utc | 35

b, forgive me for over posting but this is the best yet ...

June 12 , 2016 You cannot make this stuff up ...

"What We Know About the Orlando Shooter (Father Ran for Presidency of Afghanistan)"

"[Matten's] father is a very active man. He previously served as a director of the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce Inc. He is or was involved in other businesses, including something known as Wonderworks Production, LLC with Desiree Mufson; the Durand Jirga, Inc., in which his two daughters are also involved; and something only a few months old called The Provisional Government of Afghanistan, Corporation. He is unquestionably involved in the politics of Afghanistan, having even announced his candidacy for the President of Afghanistan in May 2015 through his Durand Jirga Show on the Payam-e-Afghan network."

source -

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 12 2016 23:30 utc | 36

Here we go . . . again. So we have the scapegoat-du-jour (evil Mooslum) shooting a roomful of protected-class-du-jour (gays) with the evil "assault rifle" (AR-15) and he does it all by hisself. And they give him a three hour head start to moe down victims while our "heroes" (cops) cower outside. Color me skeptical. I'm waiting for the offishull bullshit story on CNN to know what not to believe. God! This world needs a good herd-thinning. Starting at the top.

Posted by: Eddie Slovik | Jun 12 2016 23:31 utc | 37

Guys name is Omar. Very suspicious. Makes me think of hijacked 747s and the desert. Was ISIS for sure.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jun 12 2016 23:33 utc | 38 has some background and links ...

He was 29, born in the USA in 1986. The guy's father was an Afghan politico, running for president of Afghanistan, 'Long live the USA, Long live Afghanistan!' ... CIA connections?

The FBI 'had him [the shooter] on their radar' ... but were too busy with their bogus sting operations to check him out? or deferring to the CIA? Again (like the Tsarnaev's in Boston).

Once the guy decided to go nuts, he had no problem buying his 'tools' ... all US politicians defend to the (political) death the right of NRA funders to sell any and everyone the weapons to 'do the job'.

Meanwhile the USA keeps up its serial destruction of Muslim countries.

It's not about the well over a 1,000,000 Muslims that the USA has killed since the dawn of the third millennium, it's about the 50 Americans killed by a 'not particularly religious' American Muslim in Orlando.

We're told there's 'nothing can be done'. Too much money to be made in the death, devastation and destruction industry abroad and in the weapons peddling industry at home. So, like Omar Mateen, all you can do is hate.

Or would you like to buy a gun?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 0:08 utc | 39

My last offering was deleted ... must have hit a nerve.

Still, this is a side show. It has nothing to with anything on this blog. Beating a dead horse to get it to run has diminishing returns. Violence R Us is a good title for the US, and for us. I wonder if this will cause another crackdown? Might as well. Both right and left seem to feel it is necessary. Also, am waiting to hear a fundie congratulate the shooter for who he killed, given that the targets are hate objects all way round the religious factions.

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 13 2016 0:19 utc | 40

I just reread "" -- in light of the above issue regarding what happened in Orlando, I mused about how 'fundamentalists' of all types seem to have it in for gays. Should we expect one group of gay bashers to ally with other groups of antithetical movements?

Then it hit me: Trumps followers are angry with the system; Bernie followers are angry with the system. What if both groups allied to stop Clinton. Yes, Virginia, stranger things have happened. One thing for sure, the gang who write to MoA would have a ball dissecting that one! Doncha know ...

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 13 2016 0:31 utc | 41

The article ASSumes this guy was the shooter.More than likely the patsy as once again we have reports of more than 1 shooter. Considering the patsy's connections,more than likely another false flag.

Posted by: Frank | Jun 13 2016 0:32 utc | 42

The shooter worked for a British security firm, G4S and was licensed to carry firearms.

Posted by: Macon Richardson | Jun 13 2016 0:35 utc | 43

@30,virgile - Then you need to take classes on Islamophobia. Did you know that homosexuality is banned by the Eastern Orthodox Church. Do the Russian people need to take classes on sensitivity to homosexuals because the request for a Gay Pavilion at the Sochi Olympics was turned down? How many times have homosexual youth or adults been killed or seriously hurt in Western societies, especially in the U.S? Many times; and many times because of the severe bulling, homosexuals commit suicide. Think first, before writing on emotions only.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 13 2016 0:36 utc | 44


An ISIS terrorist committed a horrific atrocity, and you're trying to make this about guns? Well I can't say that it's very intelligent thing to do, but as someone who appreciates and is not afraid of guns myself I sure am glad you're doing it.

Posted by: jgordon | Jun 13 2016 0:45 utc | 45

[racist rubbish deleted - b.]

Posted by: Chris Bridges | Jun 13 2016 0:50 utc | 46

@37- Eddie,

I am thinking along the same lines. Not even John J. Rambo could pull something like this alone. All those fatalities and injured, reload, reload, reload...again and again. He was not overpowered, disarmed by the resulting panic; only to go outside and engage in a protracted gun battle with Police, Sherrifs Deputies and Swat Teams!?
When that terrorist Mr. Goldman walked into a Mosque in Jerusalem and opened fire on worshipers with an assault rifle and started mowing people down, he only killed 9 and injured some; before he was overpowered and trampled to death. Anyways, off topic but there is a shrine in Israel honoring Goldman and he is regarded as a national hero.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 13 2016 1:01 utc | 47

******* ANOTHER FALSE FLAG! *******

They are always killed -- and this one was no exception, and of course, in order for us to "get to know" that he was an ISIS sympathizer, he either had to have "left" some blog, or Facebook account of it, or less, likely call 911!!!! Of all the possible ways that we could get to find about his allegiances, this one is the most ridiculous possible!!! Whoever is planing these things is getting dumber! Sigh!

Please read:



Posted by: susetta | Jun 13 2016 1:12 utc | 48

The FBI let him off since it appears his terrorist ties may have been delusional. He espoused admiration for several well-known terrorist plotters but had never had any direct ties to any of them. He was a a terrorism fanboy, of which there appear to be many, including those who claim to be appalled at terrorist attacks and jump at the first chance to assign credit to ISIS. There are many more like this guy who are going to be influenced by the ISIS hype machine and the FBI's fake domestic terrorism propaganda.

Posted by: Les | Jun 13 2016 1:14 utc | 49

I think there are certain dark forces that plot, and scheme; and will not rest until (all) Muslims in the U.S are herded on railway carts and sent to FEMA or whatever camps in the Nevada or Arizona desert. Such was done to the Japanese. And these same 'forces' did so in the Soviet Union. The Germans should be mentioned too.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 13 2016 1:14 utc | 50

bored muslim @47

Dark, crowded, very noisy he probably shot more than 20 before anyone even realised what was happening. For some the first then knew was when someone beside them went down.

Posted by: Lisa | Jun 13 2016 1:20 utc | 51

Whether he was Islamic, Christian or nothing the key is the motivation was homophobia. Sadly there are very homophobic Christians (etc), even homophobic atheists.

See this for example:
"Christian Pastor Celebrates Nightclub Massacre: “There’s 50 Less Pedophiles in This World”"

Or these comments:
"Here Are All The People Applauding The Orlando Gay Club Shooter"

Posted by: Lisa | Jun 13 2016 1:26 utc | 52

Since he took hostages and was engaged in negotiations with the police, one way to know his motives is by his demands or any political statements he made.

Posted by: Les | Jun 13 2016 1:38 utc | 53

@47 bm, 'there is a shrine in Israel honoring Goldman and he is regarded as a national hero'

Got a link on that one?

@46 cb, 'Don't think the so-called "Constitution" is going to protect you when the decision is made for a wholesale clean up operation.'

Wow. More than the 'mud' people, even, I am worried about you and people like you. Maybe you're actually a DNC hasbarista trying to spread the fear of 'Trunp fans' like 'yourself'?

@45 jg, 'you're trying to make this about guns?'

Right, he didn't use guns ... he killed 50 and wounded 53 by sheer force of ISIS evil intent!

I didn't try to make it about guns ... it is about guns, and about the leading US export, dd&d+d : death, devastation, and destruction + deceit. DD&D+D fuels hatred on both sides and guns allow that hatred to manifest itself. And that fuels another turn of the 'perpetual motion machine', dd&d+d. And the carnies running the carousel tsk, tsk and roll in the dough. The roustabouts all say the same ... hey, it's tough, but it's a job.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 1:49 utc | 54

Meanwhile, in Utah, your data is being collected...

...for your safety.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jun 13 2016 2:49 utc | 55

I'm back to say I have made a mistake in an earlier comment. The real name is Baruch Goldstein, an American-Israeli and he mowed down and killed 29 Palestinian worshipers(not 9); injuring many. But I stand by what I wrote in that his grave is a pilgrimage site and shrine.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 13 2016 3:12 utc | 56

@bored muslim |

Homophobia is common in the USA from Christians too, I do not deny it.
Yes, Christian churches are homophobic but Islam is even more lethale against homosexuality.
Homosexuality is punished by death in all Moslem countries (except Turkey and Malaysia). Added to the anti-gay propaganda presently reported by ISIS and other Islamist groups financed by Wahhabi Saudi Arabia, this is making an explosive mix.
The guy was obviously a repressed and mentally unstable gay who got influenced by ISIS anti-gay propaganda and who acted according to the Islamic Sharia law that recommends death to gays.
No religion other than Islam punishes homosexuals by killing them.
This is no emotion , it is reality.

Posted by: virgile | Jun 13 2016 3:22 utc | 57

"Worst Shooting Ever" is just another Big Lie from the well known Propaganda System. At least b said worst since Wounded Knee, but that's also incorrect.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 12, 2016 5:38:55 PM | 23

What happened to your MSM-installed Memory Hole?
Did it have a glitch, or did unsolicited over-servicing ruin it?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 13 2016 3:23 utc | 58

jawbone | Jun 12, 2016 2:10:28 PM | 4: “As if he wasn't worthy of being included in the group labeled ‘people.’ “

News item: he wasn’t. He was another fucking loser so far at the bottom of the species he shouldn’t be counted as one of us.

Every freaking time someone kills a bunch of people, it’s a false flag. False flag allegations are more common than farts in a bean café. Some really deep thinkers, these conspiriados.

Chris Bridges | Jun 12, 2016 8:50:18 PM | 46: “I might add that many Muslims are inbred, the product of first cousins marrying for hundreds of years.”

Yeah and Einstein and Darwin both married their cousins, and if you trace your own genealogy back not too far, you’ll find lots of first cousin matches. It’s very common in all races and cultures.

Posted by: Denis | Jun 13 2016 3:38 utc | 59

"Mateen attended evening prayer services at the city’s Islamic Center three to four times a week, most recently with his young son, said Iman Syed Shafeeq Rahman. "

He was not religious???

"King, who is openly gay, said the Mateen he knew until 2009 did not appear to be anti-gay.

“What is shocking to me is that the majority of the staff at Ruby Tuesday’s when I worked there were gay. He clearly was not anti-(gay) at least not back then. He did not show any hatred to any of us. He treated us all like the individuals we were. He always smiled and said hello.”

King described Mateen as gregarious and talkative in the immediate years after high school, but said “something must have changed” since he last saw him in 2009."

Posted by: virgile | Jun 13 2016 3:41 utc | 60

@54, jfl - see below - from wiki :

'While mainstream Jewish religious leaders, including the chief rabbis of Israel, rejected the suggestion that killing Palestinians was authorized by the Torah, some extremist Jews have defended Goldstein's actions.[29]

At Goldstein's funeral, Rabbi Yaacov Perrin claimed that even one million Arabs are "not worth a Jewish fingernail".[29][30][31] Samuel Hacohen, a teacher at a Jerusalem college, declared Goldstein the "greatest Jew alive, not in one way but in every way" and said that he was "the only one who could do it, the only one who was 100 percent perfect."[30][31] Rabbi Dov Lior of Kiryat Arba declared that Goldstein was "holier than all the martyrs of the Holocaust."[32]

In the weeks following the massacre, hundreds of Israelis traveled to Goldstein's grave to celebrate Goldstein's actions. Some Hasidim danced and sang around his grave.[33] According to one visitor to the gravesite in the wake of the attacks, "If [Goldstein] stopped these so-called peace talks, then he is truly holy because this is not real peace."[33] Some visitors declared Goldstein a "saint" and "hero of Israel".[33]

The phenomenon of the adoration of Goldstein's tomb persisted for years.[8] The grave's epitaph said that Goldstein "gave his life for the people of Israel, its Torah and land".[9] In 1999, after the passing of Israeli legislation outlawing monuments to terrorists, the Israeli army dismantled the shrine that had been built to Goldstein at the site of his interment. In the years after the dismantling of the shrine, radical Jewish settlers continued to celebrate the anniversary of the massacre in the West Bank, sometimes even dressing up themselves or their children to look like Goldstein.[8][34][35][36]

In 2010, Jewish settlers sang songs in praise of Baruch Goldstein's massacre demonstratively in front of their Arab neighbours, during celebrations of Purim. A phrase from one song reads "Dr. Goldstein, there is none other like you in the world. Dr. Goldstein, we all love you… he aimed at terrorists' heads, squeezed the trigger hard, and shot bullets, and shot, and shot."[37]
end -

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 13 2016 3:45 utc | 61

For those of you on a false flag rant, you need to find a way to integrate this mass killing with Christian singer Grimmie's killing in the same town a few days earlier.

They were both shot by wackos in Orlando in club venues. Coincidence? I think not. The evil US government was surely involved.

Posted by: Denis | Jun 13 2016 3:47 utc | 62

Virgile@60- you just got done explaining he was obviously a repressed homosexual, which is it? Or are you done defining reality for us tonight.

Posted by: Nana2007 | Jun 13 2016 3:48 utc | 63

No religion other than Islam punishes homosexuals by killing them.
This is no emotion , it is reality.
Posted by: virgile | Jun 12, 2016 11:22:22 PM | 57

Well, half right.
Up until recent decades zealots of all the major religions ostracized and punished homosexuals. There was a famous WWII UK codebreaker (whose name escapes me) who was sentenced to jail-time by HM Govt for his 'crime' despite his "valuable services to National Security & Salvation". He was hounded relentlessly and committed suicide. It's debatable whether being executed is worse than the burden of Living Death.
In the screw-up known as the Roman Catholic Church it's still more acceptable for a 'celibate' priest to be a kiddie diddler than a poofter.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 13 2016 3:55 utc | 64

@61, bm

Thanks very much. That's Baruch Goldstein, Israeli physician and mass murderer.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 3:58 utc | 65

@64 hoarse

Alan Turing, 'chemically castrated'.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 3:59 utc | 66

Posted by: jfl | Jun 12, 2016 11:59:56 PM | 66

Yes Turing, thanks. There's a doco which I think is called Codebreaker.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 13 2016 4:35 utc | 67

One's interpretation of this attack depends one's understanding of what is going on.

1. Superficial: Deranged anti-gay bigot

His ex-wife: he beat me

His father: he wasn't religious

2. Partisan: Guns! - or - Muslims!

3. Skeptical: False flag

Calling 911 to report his allegiance to ISIS? Really? Is that required to secure his virgins?

And, if true, why did the authorities report it? Why give ISIS a propaganda victory?

The FBI interviewed him THREE times? That's the same FBI that has taken 15 months to investigate a private email server. Will email investigators be reassigned to tracking down potential domestic terr0rists?

4. Astute: Unintended consequences

'Assad must go!' was deemed more important than countering ISIS. Obama allowed this cancer to grow, only "getting tough" on ISIS after the Russians embarrassed the West.

5. Big picture: Collateral damage

Alliance between Western "Deep State" + Sunni states + Israel to use extremists as a weapon as described by Seymour Hersh in "The Redirection". (NB Bonus: keeps Western public in fear and supportive of police state.)
The policy shift has brought Saudi Arabia and Israel into a new strategic embrace, largely because both countries see Iran as an existential threat. They have been involved in direct talks, and the Saudis, who believe that greater stability in Israel and Palestine will give Iran less leverage in the region, have become more involved in Arab-Israeli negotiations.
Nasr compared the current situation to the period in which Al Qaeda first emerged. In the nineteen-eighties and the early nineties, the Saudi government offered to subsidize the covert American C.I.A. proxy war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Hundreds of young Saudis were sent into the border areas of Pakistan, where they set up religious schools, training bases, and recruiting facilities. Then, as now, many of the operatives who were paid with Saudi money were Salafis. Among them, of course, were Osama bin Laden and his associates, who founded Al Qaeda, in 1988.

This time, the U.S. government consultant told me, Bandar and other Saudis have assured the White House that “they will keep a very close eye on the religious fundamentalists. Their message to us was ‘We’ve created this movement, and we can control it.’ It’s not that we don’t want the Salafis to throw bombs; it’s who they throw them at—Hezbollah, Moqtada al-Sadr, Iran, and at the Syrians, if they continue to work with Hezbollah and Iran.”

6. Cynical: All of the above
His hate for gays brought him close(r) to his traditional/fundamentalist culture resulting in this attack. As is often the case in such attacks there were troubling signs of official cluelessness/incompetence.

In any case, political partisans try to use this attack for their own purposes - including misdirection from the bi-partisan culpability for allowing the rise of ISIS; which no one dares attribute to the actual support of allies - in accordance with Obama's "lead from behind" permissive foreign policy - that are using extremists as a weapon (violation of human rights & UN charter).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 13 2016 5:40 utc | 68

@61 bm, @65

Buruch Goldstein was an American, a follower of Meir Kahane - whose grandson, an American, Meir Ettinger, burned a Palestinian family to death on the West Bank a year or so ago, and was just released from jail - no charge.

USsrael has gone completely over the edge now, genocide is our common, overt program.

The Israeli Final Solution is at hand for the Palestinians. It's a big yawn in North America and Europe - all over the world. Hey, too bad for the Palestinians. Good thing I'm not a Palestinian.

Same with the USA's Final Solution for the Syrians, Yemenis, Libyans, Novorussians ... too bad. So sad. Good thing I'm not a Syrian, Yemeni, Libyan, Novorussian. Same thing in Europe.

No one cares enough about our brothers and sisters in Syria, Yemen, Libya, Novorussia to actually do something about their genocide. A few care a lot, but the many don't care enough to actually cause the genocides to end.

Won't we be surprised when we 'discover' that we're next?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 6:28 utc | 69

I am troubled.

I postulate that Western humanity never really quite made it all the way through the Enlightenment period or we wouldn't have the religious and social conflicts in observance. So then we aren't going through a Dis-Enlightenment period.

One could say we are devolving instead of evolving but I am not sure how to measure either today that wouldn't include some sort of religious test to invalidate the results.

So here we are in the petri dish called Earth using the Intertubes to watch our species show clearly that we haven't quite got the civil in civilization quite yet.

Why do we never have a discussion about the basic tenets of our form of social organization (private property/finance & inheritance) that created and maintain the "class" and control hierarchy ? Surely there must be a better way and 8 billion people should be able to stand up to 500, or so, and say, "No longer this way".

Us 8 billion need to look into ourselves, admit the hubris of our past ways and exorcise the virus at the core of the false Gawd of Mammon, IMO.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 13 2016 6:39 utc | 70

@ #68. And let's specifically recall the warning encapsulated in...

Oh, what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive.

"We" being the greedy, amoral arseholes who invented the Fake War on Terror (for Fun and Profit). Where were the lavishly financed tentacles of AmeriKKKa's multi-trillion dollar "Keeping Americans Safe" scam when "seemed like a good idea at the time" got caught, naked, impotent and irrelevant, in the headlights of Grim Reality?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 13 2016 6:40 utc | 71

@67 hoarse

Alan Turing’s Pardon is Wrong

The mathematician was spared jail and ordered to undergo an experimental hormone therapy for homosexual urges, often dubbed “chemical castration”. We know now the treatment will not have affected his orientation or desires, but it did cause physical changes including breast enlargement and erectile dysfunction.

Turing described the experience as horrible and humiliating and less than two years later, he died of cyanide poisoning. An inquest recorded a verdict of suicide. It is a tragic, shameful episode in our recent history, but while the tragedy was Turing’s, the shame was entirely the nation’s.

In announcing the pardon today, the justice secretary, Chris Grayling, said: “A pardon from the Queen is a fitting tribute to an exceptional man.” Turing was certainly an exceptional man but the tribute could not be less fitting. It says that the British state is prepared to forgive historical homosexual acts providing they were performed by a national hero, academic giant or world-changing innovator. This is the polar opposite of the correct message. Turing should be forgiven not because he was a modern legend, but because he did absolutely nothing wrong.

The Queen was not pardoning Alan Turing, she was pardoning barbarian Britain. She was attempting something beyond her capacity. Some things cannot be undone and Britain's treatment of Alan Turing is one of them. The Queen, and 'Great' Britain have only shown that they are too small to accept what their nation did, and instead have blamed their victim for their own crime. And have now, so graciously, so royally 'forgiven' their victim.

Britain is certainly not the only such small nation on this earth, the USA is a much larger example of a small nation. Obama just illustrated that once more in Hiroshima.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 6:51 utc | 72

i agree he was probably repressed gay. Afghan culture has a lot of ambiguity on that (the young boys dancing dressed as girls?)

+ a hyper patriarchal father, connections to Taliban? and Qatar? which is okay for USgov,
must be hard for a US grown up to make his choice between what is good and what is evil.
for sure he idealized order and his daddy...

Posted by: Mina | Jun 13 2016 9:19 utc | 73

Omar Mateen ex-wife said "he dreamed of being a policeman".
My question is why did it take the police 3 hours to get into the nightclub?

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 13 2016 9:52 utc | 74

He was clearly mentally unstable, such people are drawn to things like ISIS and the NYPD. But the ISIS connection will be overstated while the homophobic aspect will be ignored by many, as the latter does not fit in with the narrative that "radical Islam is a threat to our American values" narrative.

Rather, extreme homophobia shows the clear overlap between fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jun 13 2016 10:24 utc | 75

@61, bm @65, @69

Israeli settlers storm Al-Aqsa Mosque on Ramadan

A large number of Israeli settlers stormed the Al-Aqsa Mosque on Sunday in a new attempt to break into this historical Muslim site during the holy month of Ramadan.

The Israeli Sturmabteilung are active. 'Good' Israelis - and 'good' North Americans and Europeans - avert their eyes. These, too, are probably Brooklynites, followers of rabbi Meir Kahane.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 11:13 utc | 76

Meanwhile in Yemen, takfiri xtians were active as well ...

US drone attack kills two, injures one in southern Yemen

A US drone has struck a vehicle in southern Yemen, leaving two people dead and another injured, security sources say.

The drone targeted the car in Yemen's southeastern province of Shabwa on Sunday night. According to residents, the car was totally destroyed and no one escaped from the attack.

A military source said missiles, fired from the US drone, struck the four-wheel drive car in the tribal area of Haban.

It was the second such deadly attack this week. On Saturday, another American drone struck a vehicle in Marib province, east of the capital Sana’a and killed two people.

... they had no idea who they were shooting at, so they have no idea who they've killed. They'll huddle now, make up a story, try to make sure they all have it straight. The corporate media will dish it out ... no one will believe them. A few days will go by. Rinse and repeat. ...

Life post-Nobel-Peace-Prize. Demoblican murders are not like Republicrat murders or ISIS murders. They're 'OK'.
Keep them drone assembly lines running and them gameboys at their screens, hellfire triggers hot in their hands.
Eight more years!

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 11:33 utc | 77

If possible, I would like to hear another, more extensive, post from B on this topic. To me, the NYPD link, derived from a couple snapshots, is tenuous at best. This is an incredibly depressing and confusing event. If it is what the mainstream press is portraying it to be, then we have reached another new low in our society. If it is something more deceptive, that moves this conversation in an entirely different direction. Warranted, but altogether different.

Posted by: IhaveLittleToAdd | Jun 13 2016 11:38 utc | 78

answer is simple: mainly a hang out for latinos and blacks

Posted by: mina | Jun 13 2016 11:44 utc | 79

... Afghan culture has a lot of ambiguity on that (the young boys dancing dressed as girls?) ...

It is a little worse than that. It was reported that "warlords" routinely have very young minions, kind of perk of power. I also read about a case of a gay man in Qatar (?? could be another state of similar size) who was jailed, apparently for refusing advances from a prince. Basically, "power" is that you whatever you want, so what is it? Will you collect art, horses, girls or boys?

Given that Omar had "power related" jobs, his frustration could be more related to his non-illustrious carrier that occasionally allowed him to rough up some patsies, but he did not keep those jobs. So we had a "powerless" looser, well trained and reasonably armed, with a frustration against "all of them".

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 13 2016 11:48 utc | 80

Times are hard all around the world for the vast majority of us who aren't 'financially independent', as the saying goes. That class remains isolated from all the processes and subsequent events that keep them financially independent ... independent of like on earth. For the rest of us ... not so much.

And for those of us who cannot avoid taking it all far too seriously, and that number is increasing and looks to continue to, it becomes more and more likely that we'll be sucked into the nearest vortex, be it fundamental Xtianity, fundamental Judaeism, fundamental Islam, or just fundamental gunplay - suicide by cop. Which last seems to be the case here. The media have just raised the bar on for the next round : 50(+, I imagine) is the new number to beat. They're looking for new contestants.

This is the story of neo-liberal, global capitalism. It can always get worse. All the people at the wheels of power are, or think they are, financially independent. Which means 'liberal', as in 'free' ... to exploit the rest of us without restraint

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 12:09 utc | 81

@73, mina, 'i agree he was probably repressed gay. Afghan culture has a lot of ambiguity on that'

@75. rb. 'extreme homophobia shows the clear overlap between fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam'

I remember the US uniforms who were outraged by the pederasty they witnessed among their Afghan 'trainees'. One of them couldn't give it up. It was a matter of conscience for him. I think the US Army court-martialed him for interfering with the 'customs' of his trainee cohort, or somesuch. He was probably a fundamentalist xtian.

Too, remember the 'pastor' and his family who used to show up at the funerals of Americans killed in the wars abroad, happy and celebrating because the lord had taken one more, delvered judgment on America for its sinful homosexuality?

Times get tough and everyone needs someone to blame. Those who feel most powerless are the ones who enlist god on their side. You can't go wrong with god on your side, no matter what you do.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 12:24 utc | 82

@ Jackrabit/ Comment 48

----------- *** FALSE FLAG *** --------------

"ROBERT DAVID STEELE (Steele served in the Marine Corps as an 0203 Ground Intelligence Officer. After serving 4 years he joined CIA where he served for 10 years (3 tours overseas focused on extremist and terrorist targets). He resigned CIA to accept an invitation from the Marine Corps to stand up the Marine Corps Intelligence Center.[5]"

- Wikipedia

In the recently-published BOOK by Robert David Steel, a former CIA CLANDESTINE SERVICES OFFICER (he admits to having executing a false flag operation for the agency), titled "ANOTHER FRENCH FALSE FLAG", ten “key indicators of a modern false flag" are listed.

The most important is #10: “Who benefits?

Mr. Steele remarked on the Orlando Shooting, the following:

1.)"The tape pledging allegiance to ISIS is patsy perfect.”

This is because ISIS is a Western public relations operation, a 4th generation warfare psy-op, -- thereby proving that that the shooting is an inside job. For details, see the section “Who is ISIS” in "ANOTHER FRENCH FALSE FLAG", written by Mr. Steel.

2.)“Multiple shooters are detected by proper forensics on all bullet paths and all spent rounds. I doubt responsible forensics will be done (if 50 real bodies) am pretty sure that if it were, it would identify multiple weapons not found on the scene from the spent round signatures.

Posted by: susetta | Jun 13 2016 12:30 utc | 83

@81. 'The media have just raised the bar on for the next round : 50(+, I imagine) is the new number to beat. They're looking for new contestants.'

Actually, it's not unlike the taxi-dance contests in the 1930s, is it, dance till you drop? Last couple standing wins a hundred bucks, or whatever amount. Things are just less human, as is the age. Only solo contestants, and some random part of the audience is murdered as part of the show. Along with the contestant himself. A quick death and an end to the pain, real or imagined, is the payoff ... in lieu of the hundred bucks.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 12:34 utc | 84


My only question is ,,, which one is the real Penelope? Susetta or Robert David Steel?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13 2016 12:37 utc | 85



was not written by Robert David Steel, but instead, he was one of 26 contributors to it. It includes skeptical essays by these, and was compiled by Kevin Barrett

Posted by: susetta | Jun 13 2016 13:01 utc | 86

Omar Mateen: A U.S. Patriot Gone Astray .

Of course, radical Islamophobe Donald Trump exploits the radical Islam theme and calls for president Obama to resign ... gainng the hearts and minds of hard-working Americans!

Posted by: Oui | Jun 13 2016 13:04 utc | 87

From Paul Craig Roberts, on FALSE FLAGS:

".....This method of control might be wearing thin. There have been so many false flag “terrorist attacks” in the 21st century that there are now thousands of experts labeled as “conspiracy theorist.” For example, the 9/11 Truth Movement consists of thousands of high rise architects, structural engineers, demolition experts, nano-chemists, physicists, firefighters and first responders, civilian and military pilots, and former high government officials. Collectively these experts represent far more knowledge and experience than the 9/11 Commission, which did nothing but write down whatever the government told the commission, NIST, a collection of people whose incomes and careers depend on the government, and the presstitutes who can barely manage arithemetic, much less the mathematics of controlled demolition.

The neoconservatives, who conrolled the George W. Bush regime, called for a “New Pearl Harbor” so that they could begin their wars of conquest in the Middle East. A
“New Pearl Harbor” is what 9/11 gave them. Was this a coincidence or a Gulf of Tonkin or a Reichstag fire or a Tzarist secret police or Operation Gladio bomb?

The charge, “conspiracy theory,” is used to prevent investigation.

9/11 was not investigated. Indeed, as many experts have pointed out, there was a conscious effort to remove and destroy the evidence before it could be investigated. The 9/11 families had to lobby and protest for a solid year before the Bush regime consented to the totally controlled 9/11 Commission.

The Boston Marathon Bombing was not investigated. A scripted story was issued and repeated by the media. The San Bernardino shootings were not investigated. Again, a pre-scripted story took the place of investigation.

The success of false flag attacks in the US led to their use in the UK and France. The Charlie Hebdo affair was not investigated and the official explanation makes no sense. The story has been closed with all the loose ends dangling. For example, why did a French police official investigating the crime allegedly commit suicide in his police office in the early hours of the morning, and why was his family denied the autopsy report? What happened to this disappeared story? Why did the police finger a third participant in the attack as the “getaway driver” who had an iron clad alibi? If the police were so totally wrong about this member of the gang, how do we know they are right about the two men they shot to death. How come alleged perpetrators of “terrorist attacks” are always killed before they can talk? How come the only story we ever get is what the government says? How can people be so gullible after the Gulf of Tonkin, Operation Gladio, etc.?

Apparently the Charlie Hebdo attack was insufficient for the purpose, and now France has had what is called “the Paris attack,” an even more unbelievable event, evidence for which is missing...."

Posted by: susetta | Jun 13 2016 13:10 utc | 88

Emulating Dutch politician Geert Wilders, Donald Trump was sunning in the pool of hate and terror of Orlando shooting. SHAME!

Perpetual motion of terror and Islamophobia, war and blowback. On France24 some idiot from Orlando by the name of Tom Harb was interviewed ... ME background, anti Obama, pro-Trump ... most likely from Lebanese Maronite descent. Nice!

Posted by: Oui | Jun 13 2016 13:10 utc | 89

And again, we make a hero out of a killer. We will not show the picture of, nor publish the name of an idiot who runs naked across the field during a football game because we "don't want to encourage other publicity seekers to engage in similar behavior." But when someone engages in mass murder after publishing some sort of "manifesto" we tell the world every detail about the tortured workings of his inner mind so that the next sick fuck that thinks he is not getting enough attention can decide to "go out in a blaze of glory," and be sure that the world will know everything about him.

We are concerned about encouraging copycat streaking at football games, but we don't in the least mind engouraging copycat mass murder. These perpetrators should never have even so much as their names known, and the supposed reasons shoul be dumped on the slagheap of history unread.

Posted by: Bill H | Jun 13 2016 14:17 utc | 90

Mass shootings (= 4 or more victims killed or injured - that is why ‘the shooter’ is always counted separately) according to gunviolence, for 2016 so far, in the US: 133.

No distinction is made between personal relationships (killing family, bosses, drug gang violence, etc.) and other motivations.

All things being equal, and Muslims being at most 1-2% of the population of the US, one might expect for 2016, 1-2-3 mass shootings by Muslims (outliers like 0 and 5 perfectly possible), with all the others, 260 (half still yet to come! Hold onto your hats aka Kevlar helmets!) by Christian or other (no religion, Buddhist, Jewish, etc.)

But all things are not equal. Muslims are encouraged or even provoked to act, see for ex.

Are singled out and framed for the slightest hint of ‘islam.’ Imho often made up of whole cloth.

Anders Breivik, Norway, (killed more than 50 people) was not labelled a Christian, though he was rabidly anti-Islam, anti communist-socialist (mutli-culti), nationalist, and he murdered ‘leftists’ or would-be-so.

(…kicking in open doors sure…)

9/11 was run and sold on the ‘islamist terrorist script’ - by whom exactly does not matter here - but this script continues at the lower levels, it is all good to promote fear, hysteria, strife, arms sales, more plots, more money for media, possibly for political gains as well. To understand what is going on one needs to dig into recent history (1990 >)

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 13 2016 14:44 utc | 91

@Bill H. - #90

Your observations are astute.

And the explanation for the reason you observe what you observe, is:

Were the government to be shy about plastering the terrorists' faces, pursuits, and the like, as everywhere as possible, the United States' population would not have been terrorized -- as this is the purposed of these false flag EVENTS, toward:

1) the ability to assault more of our civil liberties
2) attempting to do away with the 2nd amendment or, at least, infringing on it in a very serious way
3) In this case, could also have been to do away with whatever little good PR there was associated with Islam from the death of Ali
4) positioning the republican presumptive nominee, Donald Trump, in a better position to win the presidency (he had taken a beating with his last comments regarding the Mexican Judge).
5) According to Veteran's Today Editor, it may also have been to prevent Obama from attempting to recognize the Palestinians' self-determination towards having their own country (presumably there seems to be ongoing renewed pressure on the Israelis regarding this)

The Deep State is largely fascistic in nature, and so the Republican party is closer, however still quite far, to their point of view. Deep State is largely composed of Zionists, which is the same thing as rabid fascists.

Posted by: susetta | Jun 13 2016 14:46 utc | 92

"the Mexican" judge -- I meant to put that in quotes, as he is an American.

Posted by: susetta | Jun 13 2016 14:48 utc | 93

As to why he blewback against gays is debatable.
And yes,Lysias,this will help Trump win in a landslide.
The hell bitch blames guns,and wants to take away our 2nd amendment,when it is all her fault(and her fellow Zionist travelers of course)in the first place.
Yankee come home,now!

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 13 2016 15:07 utc | 94

"In the United States of AmeriKKKa the King is a psychopath and Happiness Is A Warm Gun."

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer

Yeah, Good thing our 100% honest media is telling us what to think, huh? This ought to be good at least to attack Libya, and maybe even for more "security" laws.

Posted by: Penelope | Jun 13 2016 15:13 utc | 95

Just a thought...Why do these "wackos", always, seem to kill the passengers on the "train", instead of the ones who operate and own it?

Blaming the "passengers", on the "train",for the train wreck,is so in vogue now.

Posted by: ben | Jun 13 2016 15:22 utc | 96

Susetta -- do you have links for your quotes and summaries? They would be much appreciated. It's frustrating to see statements made and quotes as well which have no sourcing. Sometimes a search can turn up what might be the source, often not.

So, again, those using material from your reading, etc., if possible please include links. It's, well, a internet kind of thing.

Posted by: jawbone | Jun 13 2016 15:22 utc | 97

Witness report of multiple shooters on ABC:

(Yeah, intellihub is kind of a joke but they sometimes put up something worthwhile.)

Posted by: RudyM | Jun 13 2016 15:25 utc | 98

Apparent account of two shooters (kind of vague--"I saw two guys"--but the context seems to imply shooters):

Posted by: RudyM | Jun 13 2016 15:27 utc | 99

susetta -- apology, I can't find your comment which I was referencing as to links. Looking for it again, I see your usually do show links. My bad.

Posted by: jawbone | Jun 13 2016 15:28 utc | 100

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