Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 25, 2016

The Imminent Dodging Of Brexit - A Gift For The Fascist Right

We claimed that BREXIT - is not gonna happen and pointed to a propaganda campaign (see further examples in the comments there) launched to reverse the Brexit votes. Within that campaign two memes get pushed:

First, young voters feel cheated of their future because some old, grumpy people voted for Brexit. Well, these young voters of age 18 to 24, tearfully interviewed by the BBC and Channel 4, constitute only 5% of the electorate. Only a third of them voted at all, 70% of those 1/3 of 5% for "Remain". This is a small part, and a not very interested one, of the population. Who are they to deserve some special attendance?

The second meme pushed is the "success" of some petition for a #ReverseBrexit vote someone set up on the UK parliament website. It now has more than a million "signatures". That is a lot in a short time frame. But wait, any dog on the Internet can "sign" that petition provided it has some throw-away email address. I, a German in Germany, "signed" to test the procedure. It took me about 30 seconds.

This propaganda campaign will not have any tangible success, but it sets a certain atmosphere which then will be used to stall the exit process.

The EU exit mechanism is build in a way that allows for an endless postponement of the actual procedure. This is the way the British politicians will likely take. The Jack of Kent Blog explains how this works:

The UK did not [immediately] send to the EU the notification under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty on European Union which would have commenced the withdrawal process.

The Article 50 process is the only practical means by which the UK can leave the EU.
And so unless and until the Article 50 process is commenced and completed, the UK will stay as a member of the EU.

In short: no Article 50, no Brexit.
And it is entirely a matter for the Member State to choose whether to make the notification and, if so, when.

The UK immediately filing Article 50, as Cameron once promised, would trigger a two year long negotiation period with the EU which would end with the legal exit independent of the negotiation results. After filing Article 50 the clock would run down to the deadline likely without any serious concession from the EU. The UK has therefore an interest to negotiate before filing Article 50. To negotiate before filing is its only chance to apply some pressure.

But the EU has no reason, or legal basis, to negotiate at all before the UK files. Why should it make concessions to a divorce letter that was not filed and may not ever arrive?

It is a stalemate situation. The powers that are against Brexit will use this to blockade any move.

The six founding EU members claim to push Britain to file the Article 50 application immediately. But that is just playing to the gallery. In reality they want the never ending stalemate:

There is no desperate rush for Britain to trigger the process for it to leave the European Union, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Saturday, leaving London some space to work out its next move after a referendum vote to leave the bloc.

Despite the British voter decision for Brexit business as usual will continue with absolutely no change in sight:

Jack of Kent:

It is not impossible to imagine that the Article 50 notification will never be made, and that the possibility that it may one day be made will become another routine feature of UK politics – a sort of embedded threat which comes and goes out of focus. The notification will be made one day, politicians and pundits will say, but not yet.

And whilst it is not made, then other ways of solving the problem created by the referendum result may present themselves: another referendum, perhaps, so that UK voters can give the “correct” result, or a general election where EU membership is a manifesto issue, or some other thing.

This will not please Leave campaigners, and rightly so. It means the result of the referendum will be effectively ignored.

While this may be a convenient way forward for the EU bureaucrats and the politicians committed to neo-liberal globalization, the damage in the long run will be much more severe than a chaotic Brexit procedure.

Brexit will join a number of other issues on which the democratic will of the people has been ignored. This further de-legitimizes the EU and whatever it undertakes.

People who argue that a violent overthrow of the system is the only way forward will gain credibility.

The aborted Brexit will also give further impetus to the hard-rightwing parties currently cropping up in several European countries. These parties ostensibly cater to the "small people" who feel unrepresented and on the economic losing side. But the economic programs of these parties are anti-social and would only further inequality. They (ab-)use the grievance of the poor and middle class to gain even more power for the rich.

What is missing in Europe are leftwing parties that take the romantic longing for local nationalism - in opposition to bone-crushing globalization - seriously and merge it with socialist policies. The social-democrats once had that role but under Blair, Schroeder and Hollande they waft away into the anti-nationalism, neo-liberal globalization sphere. Nationalism has, for them, become a dirty word. This at the time as nationalism gains new popularity as the anchor for common people lost in the sea of neo-liberal arbitrariness.

The space left empty by them will be filled by fascism.

Posted by b on June 25, 2016 at 14:32 UTC | Permalink

next page »
More than 1.5 million and rising sign UK petition for new EU referendum

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 25 2016 14:59 utc | 1

" It means the result of the referendum will be effectively ignored."

"What is missing in Europe are leftwing parties that take the romantic longing for local nationalism - in opposition to bone-crushing globalization - seriously and merge it with socialist policies."

Right on target b.

With all this discontent for "The powers that are", let's not forget the "root" of the problem..The corporate world, who owns most of the lackies that make the policies.

Posted by: ben | Jun 25 2016 15:00 utc | 2
London's financial institutions risk losing their prized access to the EU if the UK leaves the single market, said the head of France's central bank.
Francois Villeroy de Galhau said London's banks would lose their "financial passport", which allows them to trade freely in the EU.
Earlier, the head of the Eurogroup of finance ministers Jeroen Dijsselbloem said banks would move outside the UK.
But UK economist Gerard Lyons said it would be difficult to displace London.
Many London-based banks currently serve customers throughout the EU unhindered under rules known as "passporting".
However, that would be under threat if the UK chooses to leave the single market as part of its withdrawal from the EU.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 25 2016 15:02 utc | 3

The left elites are passionless, they imagine they can think their way out of the chaos that swirls about us. Not gonna happen. Brexit is the first of many failures yet to come in 2016. Soros leapt into gold weeks ago. This is a 2008 rewind moment, nothing more. Lots of profit taking, hand wringing, government intervention on behalf of wealth, oh yes, and manufactured terror.

Posted by: Lawrence Smith | Jun 25 2016 15:02 utc | 4

Read this article by Gilad Atzmon a Jewish artist . It spells out what is going on in the European Soviet Union and Obongo's USA

Posted by: all you see is a fraud | Jun 25 2016 15:06 utc | 5

French nationalist leader Marine Le Pen - cheering the Brexit - says it is France's turn now

A while ago France's National Front (FN) leader Marine Le Pen said that if the UK voted to leave the EU, it would be like the Berlin Wall falling in 1989.

She was right. Brexit is a momentous event in the history of Europe and from now on the narrative will be one of disintegration, not integration.

That does not mean that the EU will fall apart, or even that another country will leave, which is highly unlikely in the foreseeable future. But the centrist politicians who run nearly every EU member state will henceforth be on

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 25 2016 15:07 utc | 6
Italy's 5-Star hails Brexit as democracy, wants Italy vote on euro

Italy's opposition 5-Star Movement, the country's second-most popular party, described Britain's vote to leave the European Union as a lesson in democracy on Friday and vowed to pursue its own proposal for an Italian referendum on the euro.

The anti-establishment party, considered a genuine contender for government at the next general election, believes strongly in direct democracy and wants Italy to hold a "consultative" or non-binding referendum on whether to remain in the euro zone.

The party's leaders avoided voicing an opinion on the result of Britain's referendum, which showed a near 52-48 percent split for leaving, but applauded the fact it had been held.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 25 2016 15:23 utc | 7

Superb commentary. Kudos b.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2016 15:39 utc | 8

"Ludwig von Mises understood that self-determination is the fundamental goal of liberty, of real liberalism. Today's Brexit vote fired a shot heard around the world, to challenge the wisdom of the “globalism is inevitable” narrative. Ultimately, Brexit is not a referendum on trade, immigration, or the technical rules promulgated by the (awful) European Parliament. It is a referendum on nationhood, which is a step away from globalism and closer to individual self-determination."

"Does today’s Brexit vote similarly mark the spot where the once-inevitable march of globalism begins to recede? Have ordinary people around the world reached the point where real questions about self-determination have become too acute to ignore any longer?"

Mises is often used to advance neoliberal economics. The oily-garchs have plans to exploit any movement towards self-determination too. One net, already laid to catch the unwary, is to balkanize countries for easier takeover. TPTB have already formed several international groupings of cities, the aim of which is to tempt these cities away from their nations through increased sovereignty-- they become City-States under the aegis of the UN (merely a mask for the oligarchs.)

Let's see, there's the UN's Sustainable Cities Programme, United Smart Cities, and the Strong Cities Network. This last is a real gem; I know less about the others. They are all wonderfully presented as goodness and mother's milk. Our shield against the garchs' sneakiness is to know in some detail what will serve humanity. It's not going to be good enough to react to what they are doing; WE need to put forward positive plans/platforms for people to unite behind.

Posted by: Penelope | Jun 25 2016 15:48 utc | 9

b shows us how this will play out: no Brexit. The European politicians freeloading on the Brexit vote---Le Pen, Grillo, Wilders---are deceiving their supporters just as much as Farge and the other leaders of Brexit did the British: they had no plan for Brexit and were not intending to implement it anyway. The issue was basically an internal power struggle of the Tory party which got blown into a full-scale public relations war ending in the referendum. So here we are. Girllo is for a comedian a bad laugh: he refuses to give his opinion on the Brexit vote while applauding that it took place (what ever that means) and then goes on to pour oil on the fire by proposing a meaningless referendum on Italy's membership of the euro zone: if there ever was nonstarter, you've got it there. A process for withdrawing from the euro is nonexistent (unlike Article 50 regarding EU membership) and the logistics of returning to the lira would be daunting, completely beyond a comedian's grasp of economics and IT/financial organization. Maybe beyond anyone's comprehension.

Posted by: Quentin | Jun 25 2016 16:02 utc | 10

The name Cinque Stelle is metastasized tourism: 'Where is this hot five-star hotel I've heard so much about', asked Silvio Berlusconi, 'I'd like to make my singing comeback in its night club.' Commedia dell'arte is, after all, Italian.

Posted by: Quentin | Jun 25 2016 16:09 utc | 11

It's hard to say if the prediction that populist uprising, or revolt, will be channeled into fascism is necessarily true. That is perhaps too pessimistic. I think the British people's perception of how manipulated events would then be, under the scenario of purposeful delay, would cause an enormous backlash of anger and indignation. I doubt the political class would risk it at this point.

The appropriate expression is: "the die has been cast". It doesn't surprise me that the inner circle of EU would want to get this political divorce over with quickly. The UK has its own currency; and has always been a square peg in the round EU scheme. The chronic and broad suspicion of EU encroachment against the nation's financial prerogatives is but one feature of the irreconcilable differences. But political meaning and the soul of a society is much more significant than concerns over the present inadequate, compromised leadership. If society is polarized at present, one prominant line of division is surely drawn between those who are comfortable inside the panopticon, and the others who refuse to capitulate to government by remote control.

The existential reality here is the one that can be drawn from the Scriptures: "no one can serve two masters".

Posted by: Copeland | Jun 25 2016 16:41 utc | 12

Quentin @ 10

Beppe Grillo ia a graduate accountant with a thorough knowledge of economics and commerce. he has a keen awareness of the workings of high finance and how it cripples the ordinary man.

for those of you who believe that working with the system we have is the best strategy, a study of Grillo's 5 star movement might be in order. he started from scratch 6 or 7 years ago and his party is now, essentially, the main political force in Italy, their 5 stars being, public water, sustainable transport, sustainable development, right to internet access, and environmentalism. they are generally anti-establishment and anti-globalist...and Eurosceptic.

in the recent mayoral elections Grillo's movement took 19 out of the 20 elections they participated in...including a landslide win for Virginia Raggi in Rome.

Posted by: john | Jun 25 2016 16:42 utc | 13
The European Central Bank has fanned fears that London could lose its status as Europe’s financial capital after warning that the Brexit vote might sever the City’s trade relationship with the EU.

A top ECB official said banks in the City of London risked being stripped of their lucrative EU “passports” that allow them to sell services to the rest of the union. François Villeroy de Galhau said keeping the so-called “passport” would not be possible if the UK leaves the single market of trade in goods and services.
The ECB governing council member also echoed calls from EU leaders for quick Brexit talks and he warned that Britain would bear the brunt of the economic consequences of leaving the EU, while other European countries would be less hard hit.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 25 2016 16:45 utc | 14

No b. The space is already filled with fascism (what else is the rule of an economic oligarchy giving lip service to 'democracy' engaged in multiple colonial wars and ready to attack yet again Russia to slaughter and enslave the subhuman slavs? ). What may happen is that it may be filled with a different more crude version of fascism with a localist flavor (in truth most of these parties are just smokescreens from the same oligarchy so people can release their rage there, some of the uglies they used to try to avoid Brexit as something only freak racist would do are already showing their true colors and purpose). What come after that is what may be interesting or at least determine the fate of the Western States

Posted by: ThePaper | Jun 25 2016 16:54 utc | 15


This is a very important post.

As the democratic will of the people are thwarted regularly by the elites in their determination to maintain their privilege, it opens the field to more extremist demagogues. If in America, the establishment steal the election from Trump and the working class feel even more disenfranchised it will pave the way for a fascist to suggest that democratic means no longer work.

While I'm not a supporter of the Left ideologically, I agree that the Left no longer have leadership of stature. The fact is that the Clintons and Blairs and Schroeders have sold the left leaning working class down the river and now have become social justice warriors supporting racial grievance, LGBT and other cultural divisions abandoning the more culturally conservative working class.

The social compact is fraying and we're headed towards a more violent phase of tumult.

Posted by: ab initio | Jun 25 2016 17:06 utc | 16

The 2nd referendum “petition” is wide open to fraud
The UK Parliament online petition for a second referendum, currently containing upwards of a million alleged signatures is open to almost unlimited fraud, and likely worthless.

Although we might assume such a potentially significant petition would be subject to at least basic checks on identity to prevent fake identities and duplication, one of our own frequent researchers can confirm this is not true, and he has sent us the screen caps to prove it.

The researcher, who does live in the UK, signed the petition twice today, within minutes, from the same computer, using fake names and email addresses designed for the purpose. The only test of his ID was a simple checkbox that asked if he was a UK citizen. He was not asked to provide a street address, or any proof of ID. He gave two different – and false – postcodes, one in Manchester and one in the West Country. This is a screen shot of the two confirmatory email he received after each of these attempts.

He apparently made no attempt to conceal what he was doing. He did not use a proxy IP or any other means to cloak his origins. He tells us even the names he used were blatantly fabricated. Yet as you can see they were both accepted without question.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 25 2016 17:07 utc | 17

How Western Military Interventions Shaped the Brexit Vote

Michael Hudson argues that military interventions in the Middle East created refugee streams to Europe that were in turn used by the anti-immigrant right to stir up xenophobia

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 25 2016 17:33 utc | 18

See you in Rapallo:

Posted by: Oddlots | Jun 25 2016 17:39 utc | 19


My impression of Grillo is that he doesn't understand Macro at all. His whining on about deficits suggested to me txt he was unwittingly offering Italy a dead end.

Posted by: Oddlots | Jun 25 2016 17:43 utc | 20

the goal of the US has clearly been to prevent Europe's integration w/Russia and then ultimately the larger integration of the Eurasian landmass. that "the markets" responded negatively to even a symbol of democracy is a good sign, but balkanized entities are easier to control and to pit against one another. even if America jr's brexit vote winds up being thwarted, Uncle Sam likes turmoil. counting on Lafarge, Le Pen, etc., to protect their nations from global finance or NATO's agenda seems like a fool's dream. the predictable result of US interventions into the MENA region was floods of refugees in Europe, weaponized migration. why is the brexit vote different? or why isn't it just a political stunt like the US election? "we respect democracy." if texas voted to secede, the troops would move in. if britain had voted to secede from NATO, wouldn't that be a more substantive cause for celebration than a non-binding vote that will almost certainly never be enacted?

Posted by: jason | Jun 25 2016 17:55 utc | 21

"The social compact is fraying and we're headed towards a more violent phase of tumult."

If only ... I still am of the opinion that real change will only take place if the system is brought all the way to it's knees. Whether by revolution from the bottom, or thermonuclear war from the top ... unless and until that happens ...

Have any of the people who write to this blog recall what Jacques Cousteau said about the oceans in the 1970's? Or what Paul Ehrlich said in 'The population explosion?' And what did we do? What have we done?

Individuals, whether the so-called 1%, or the alleged 99%, are simply complicit in the destruction of the earth. Brexit is no solution because it is simply (like the alleged election in the US) driven by a desire to get more by the individual. That more has to come from someplace. The 1% will fight to keep their 'share' and the 99% will attempt to either get more out of the system or convince the 1% to share.

What will break us out of such a mindset?

Could it be that ending the existence of those greedy creatures (humans) is really the only solution if life is to continue?

Go ahead ... be insulting and hateful ... I have a very thick hide. But prove me wrong? Ain't gonna happen. I may be wrong, but so far no one has proven it!

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 25 2016 18:03 utc | 22

the Article 50 notification will never be made, and that the possibility that it may one day be made will become another routine feature of UK politics

This seems like a well-known and very realistic scenario. It will be a more lively discussion the next few days, after that just a common topic that comes up every now and then. "Surely under these circumstances we can't proceed with the Treaty Cancellation, and YOUR Party is to blame... no YOUR Party... we've got to respect the people... bla... ect... bla..."
Yes, this seems very likely to me. Maybe in the end someone will play the card of definitely leaving EU, but not until treaties are in place that fulfil the same function the EU had before. This will drag out for some time.

Posted by: radiator | Jun 25 2016 18:05 utc | 23

Eric Arthur Blair aka George Orwell's commentary "Animal Farm," displays the 'prescience' of Mr. Blair as Brussels manifests the very essence of the tale.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Why is irony always so ironic?

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 25 2016 18:09 utc | 24

The true insidious motivation for the Brexit was hidden, namely that it is a UK banksters effort to extort concession from EU commission regulatory agencies to exempt UK (London) based banks from more sensible regulation, curbing rampant speculation, naked short selling, insanity of hypothecation of the same collateral to the infinity, transparency to prevent fraud, impair money laundering, tax evasion, and equity markets/derivatives transaction tax that would have been imposed on banksters when EU banking union is consummated as a part of furthering political consolidation of EU into a continent wide super-state.

And article 50 is the trigger, a threat the banksters now are using in ongoing secret negotiation with EU/Eurozone establishment.

Curiously they allegedly want QEII on the top of integrated EU-superstate in the future (a ceremonial form of little British empire) but most importantly they demand an exemption from EU laws for City of London financial center as apart of TTIP signing concessions. Both FED, ECB and Bundesbank oppose special rights for London City since Germany suppose to be local master of EU slaves owned by US (global) oligarchy.

While there is a split in banking elites i.e. ruling elites, visible by pound sterling dropping like a stone there is no side to be picked in this fight for British working people since one way or another they will be screwed by raise of corporate billionaire gangsters, and that’s the hidden truth. What they are negotiating is extermination of working people as usual.

However, the awakening among working people, the sense of togetherness and courage to oppose the establishment with success is priceless regardless of actuality of Brexit and in condition of elites’ split, at least temporarily, people have a chance to wreck this abhorrent regime, one piece at the time, the regime that is strong only because we believe that is invincible and omnipotent while in fact it is more fragile than house of cards.
If billions of people, in the world deeply realize that Oligachic power is all in our minds, oligarchy would have been gone as a matter of months, not years.

It is a revolution of mind that will change everything or there will be no change.

Posted by: Kalen | Jun 25 2016 18:22 utc | 25

"The space left empty by them will be filled by fascism."

The West has had a fascist system since WW2. I mean the economic system that Benito Mussolini said would be better called "corporatism". Some in my country call it "crony-capitalism"

In American terms, we see the "progressive" left-wing seeks to control people's every action just as the right-wing "conservative" movement does.

We have a struggle going on between the "little people" who want freedom and liberty with the collectivists (both left and right) who want to control every aspect of life.

The state (government) is our enemy. If we must have governments, then the smaller the better. I can not recall from history a small, weak nation-state starting large scale warfare. If there is one example, I have missed it. The smaller the state the more society can grow and the more the family is the center of life. While no situation in this life is going to be perfect, having a government that does not micro-manage every aspect of life is better than the dystopian tyranny that the USA is now.

I applaud the UK for leaving the EU. I also think Scotland should leave the UK. Let London go to if it wants. And more importantly for the whole world --- let us see 50 states leave the USA federal government.

Posted by: Mark Stoval | Jun 25 2016 18:23 utc | 26

Thanks Kalen, that's hat I figured out! A new, bigger Switzerland.

People here should not buy the comments on "poor-uneducated voted Leave/educated-wealthy voted Remain", just check back the reactions to the results or go a few days before: many PM of both the conservative and the leftist parties where pro-leave, many academics too.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 25 2016 18:58 utc | 27

I believe every threats and intention to commit violence and a4buse of power that the right wing is committed to.

And as a leftist myself, I did not believe the; cowardly, self lying, hypocritical, gutless in principled whores of the majority of the left.
The left is a joke, and actually complicit in the crimes of the elite. It is the left that will discredit the left, and be the quickest thing to bring fascism into power across a lot of the world.

Posted by: tom | Jun 25 2016 19:08 utc | 28

That's unprincipled

Posted by: tom | Jun 25 2016 19:09 utc | 29

Brexit was born of two things, not just one. The complete meltdown of globalization "for the rest of us", yes, but also the wanton and unwarranted destruction of whole countries and societies in MENA (leading to millions of refugees heading toward the EU). Without both, this vote would have never happened, let alone the result.

This was a vote against a concurrent raft of ill/maliciously-conceived, middle-class destroying policies. That popular feeling is not going to go away. This was as much a vote against (though arguably indirectly; ie. directly against the effects) perpetual war as anything else.

There's "progressive gold" in them thar political hills - if leadership has the vision and courage to exploit it.


Posted by: ritzl | Jun 25 2016 19:19 utc | 30

"People who argue that a violent overthrow of the system is the only way forward will gain credibility."

And how well is voting workin for ya?

Posted by: Perimetr | Jun 25 2016 19:23 utc | 31

b - "We claimed that BREXIT - is not gonna happen and pointed to a propaganda campaign (see further examples in the comments there) launched to reverse the Brexit votes."

Who comprises the "we?" I thought the proprietor of this blog was a German guy named Bernhard.

Posted by: Par Lang | Jun 25 2016 19:34 utc | 32

Wow! No wonder there's been no spare money around since the sub-prime scam. Imagine how much it must be costing to "reward" the vast majority of Western Politicians for singing from the Neolib (privatise Politicians (and then EVERYTHING ELSE)) Song Book?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 25 2016 19:42 utc | 33

@okie farmer | Jun 25, 2016 1:33:32 PM | 18


Refugees. Refugees. Refugees. Perpetual war. Destruction of whole countries. Evaporated $Ts (or £Bs).

Principal driver of the vote and result.

Posted by: ritzl | Jun 25 2016 19:48 utc | 34

Who comprises the "we?"
Posted by: Par Lang | Jun 25, 2016 3:34:23 PM | 32

b and the MoA Community.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 25 2016 19:59 utc | 35

The Brexut stuff is a little heavy, so here is some light relief. It is a fine example of the 'Hidden Hand' and 'G_d Moves In Mysterious Ways'.

There has been a big hooha about Russian athletes and doping which led the US to demand Russia be banned from the Olympics. One key stepping stone to this end was provided by Maria Sharapova, a 'Russian' athlete who lives in the US. It seems she was advised by her lawyer to publicly confess and hope the good natured Americans would accept this. It turned out they did't and she was badly affected. Cue her tearfully blaming poor advice from her lawyer. Now here is the HH aspect. She has just been offered a place at Harvard Business School! Truly GMIMW!

Her tweet:

Not sure how this happened but Hey Harvard! Can't wait to start the program! 🎓📓

All has turned out well. Athletes have limited lives at peak performance, but the Harvard Business School is an permanent opening to the upper levels of the highly remunerated 'talks' circuit.

Well done, Maria.

Posted by: Yonatan | Jun 25 2016 20:55 utc | 36

Igor Besermenji IBesermenji

"@MariaSharapova: Not sure how this happened but Hey Harvard! Can't wait to start the program! 🎓📓" Bravo.

3h Reply Retweet Favourite

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 25 2016 21:32 utc | 37

"The left elites …"

There is no 'left' anywhere in the World in any number that matters. Which is why the right is winning everywhere.

Posted by: paulmeli | Jun 25 2016 22:15 utc | 38

Read this:

The violence of organized forgetting?
We forgot?
Therefore ...
We don't care ...
And the present is all there is.

What IF we remembered? What IF the past mattered? What would it indicate for the present?

I am not advocating what historians write ... most is professionalized organized forgetting.

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 25 2016 23:24 utc | 39

From the Guardian's comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.


Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

Posted by: Yul | Jun 26 2016 0:50 utc | 40

The legal experts quoted in The, offers a second referendum is highly unlikely and, on Saturday, as b observed,
the EU founding states called on Britain to "urgently" trigger Article 50 and begin the process of departure[.]

IMHO , it may be a futile effort to reverse BREXIT. The Tories are in the State of Splitsville. “Stop the Boris” is on.

With or without BREXIT, this EU project as constructed is done, dead done in 18 months, in tandem with the BREXIT timeline of 2 years upon the invocation of Lisbon Treaty article 50.

The financial system is burnt toast – Watch the Sovereign Bonds and Derivatives:

See this $3 Trillion speed bump ahead and in the related article at link:

“Day of Reckoning for Banks in Italy, Spain, & Portugal Kicked Down the Road (Elegantly) for 18 Months”

Senior bankers in Spain and Italy can breathe a collective sigh of relief after Europe’s finance and economic ministers decided on Friday to postpone, for at least 18 months, a decision on setting a limit on the government bonds some banks can hold as eligible “risk-free” capital. It was one of four things keeping Spanish senior bankers awake at night. Now, they can sleep a little sounder.

The initiative, initially proposed by the German government and supported by other fiscally hawkish governments such as Finland and the Netherlands, was intended to limit the purchase of public debt by banks, in order to break the vicious cycle of co-dependence that now exists between sovereign and bank risk.

If allowed to happen, the move could have posed a very serious threat to the balance sheets of many banks on the Eurozone periphery. According to European Central Bank data, euro-area sovereign bonds accounted for over 10% of banks’ assets in the Eurozone, or €2.73 trillion ($3 trillion), at the end of 2015 — over €300 billion more than at the end of 2014, on the eve of the ECB’s launch of its negative interest rate policy (NIRP).

The establishment wants BREXIT – In the related article at link above –

“BREXIT Chaos to Serve as Cover for ECB Bank Bailouts”

"If Europe’s biggest banks are in trouble, it’s safe to say that Europe’s financial system is too."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The opening shot for the reset –unwinding - will be laid at the feet of the UK and Switzerland. Will you lend your money to a bankrupt for 50 or 100 years at 1% ?

Question of the weekend: Will the ECB be allowed to continue holding British bonds (Gilts)? Monday and Tuesday will be interesting.

Posted by: likklemore | Jun 26 2016 1:07 utc | 41

Clearly, when freedom and sovereignty can not be "borne" by either the leadership or the people, one is living in a tyranny. What will happen next?--cats and dogs living together? wild-eyed anarchy in the streets?--the Apocalypse? And all because one has to reissue passports, and secure one's own borders?

What a bunch of pathetic dullards these public men would be, and even weaker and more irresolute than those cowardly premiers and pols of the 1930s.

Posted by: Copeland | Jun 26 2016 1:21 utc | 42

WikiLeaksVerified account
#Brexit means the scrapping of the European Arrest Warrant used as the excuse to detain Assange without charge in the UK for 5.5 years

Posted by: brian | Jun 26 2016 1:55 utc | 43

Isn't this whole thing reminiscent of a mild version of what happened in the Ukraine? The people voted, and duly and legally elected an leader. And a minority was able to dispose of the majority will. Only no violence, just lies, distortions, and propaganda to reverse the vote. I have been going around American websites and the emerging theme is that the vote was only advisory and not a mandate--therefore, it can be ignored. Although Cameron certainly is taking it seriously as he is stepping down.

Posted by: Erelis | Jun 26 2016 2:02 utc | 44

@40. Excellent observation.

Posted by: ab initio | Jun 26 2016 2:13 utc | 45

@40. Excellent observation.

Posted by: ab initio | Jun 26 2016 2:13 utc | 46

'What is missing in Europe are leftwing parties that take the romantic longing for local nationalism - in opposition to bone-crushing globalization - seriously and merge it with socialist policies. The social-democrats once had that role but under Blair, Schroeder and Hollande they waft away into the anti-nationalism, neo-liberal globalization sphere. Nationalism has, for them, become a dirty word. This at the time as nationalism gains new popularity as the anchor for common people lost in the sea of neo-liberal arbitrariness.'

localisation? meet Helena Norberg-Hodge

Why Global Capital Fears ‘Brexit’

Posted by: brian | Jun 26 2016 2:20 utc | 47

@43 - it would be lovely if his freedom would come to pass on those grounds. I expect a thousand such golden points of light shining out from this global shock that the lads and lasses of Blighty have created.

All the headaches and nightmares of the withdrawal process cited by the Guardian are actually opportunities to revise the nature of the British state. As with all withdrawals, the pain is simply an increased sensitivity to a reality formerly numbed.

London has already been seeing capital outflows, but it's because of the Shanghai Gold Exchange. Brexit will be blamed, and cover up the true cause, for a time.

Brexit has already won. It's like Minsk 2, and the Syrian cessation of hositilies: it matters less that it won't be implemented, and more that it sticks sideways in the windpipe of the enemy forever and never goes away.

Brexit is a win. The people will not forget. It doesn't matter what the politicians do. The ship is sinking. The people know it.

All over the world.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 26 2016 2:23 utc | 48

the audacity of courage:the West elites cheered the Arab Spring, lets see how they like the Europe Spring

Posted by: brian | Jun 26 2016 4:03 utc | 49

To #48: PRECISELY. You nailed it. It matters NOT what they do to extend and pretend. Whether Merkel stays or goes. They are EXPOSED. And whatever they DO to cover TRUTH will be SEEN and understood for what IT IS. Brexit is PROOF of the QUICKENING. People worldwide are AWAKE. It may take younger peeps a bit longer. Cuz they've been coddled to believe in their entitlement. They too will realize the sham. Sooner than later. The genie can't be stuffed back into the bottle. And its about to make major mischief for TPTB. Doesn't matter how they spin Brexit. Cuz the fat lady has stepped on the stage. And she's clearing her throat.

Posted by: 4H | Jun 26 2016 4:22 utc | 50

@ Grieved, I much admire your post at 48. Very well said

"All the headaches and nightmares of the withdrawal process cited by the Guardian are actually opportunities to revise the nature of the British state. As with all withdrawals, the pain is simply an increased sensitivity to a reality formerly numbed."

I think this is a realization that will comfort and strengthen the British in the days ahead as they face the changes.

And I don't accept that Brexit is the moment that spells the disintegration of the EU. If such a first cause exists, it came when Greece was slammed ruthlessly against the wall of austerity. There's nothing like seriously abusing one of the smaller children in front of everyone, to ensure that the family is never the same again.

Posted by: Copeland | Jun 26 2016 4:27 utc | 51

@brian | Jun 26, 2016 12:03:41 AM | 49

Thank brian for reminding us Arab Spring. Like to expand further - EU and America Spring and see how they are gonna to deal with its citizens bullied for so long. I have neither sympathy for the regimes resulted so many innocents’ lives murdered and millions displaced victims. Many blame the NeoCon but the Neoliberal is even worst.

Chickens coming home to roost. Bros & Sis gets your pitchfork ready for regime changes in your backyards and b are you with us or with Angela Merkel?

Posted by: Jack Smith | Jun 26 2016 4:42 utc | 52

b: “Brexit will join a number of other issues on which the democratic will of the people has been ignored. This further de-legitimizes the EU and whatever it undertakes.”

This doesn’t make sense. It is entirely the prerogative of the UK government to initiate the exit process. If the UK government fails to do that, how does that delegitimize the EU? The EU can’t force UK to initiate the process, besides EU has already told UK to GTF out, IYSWIM.

Also, you’ve missed pointing out that there’s a quick-exit process that does not require 2 years negotiation. Apparently the quick-exit waives any claims UK would have to funds or other assets the UK has contributed to EU.

You’ve made a bold prediction that Brexit will never happen. Good man. The DemLibs are already trying to cash in on your prediction and grab seats by promising to reverse the vote. Idiots, those guys. I mean, basically that word describes all UK politicians – Cameron, Boris, Blair, Farage (jezus), Corbyn, Sturgeon . . . a bunch of wankers on good pay.

Posted by: Denis | Jun 26 2016 4:47 utc | 53

hoarsewhisperer - par lang is pat lang - always reminding anyone and especially 'b' who bothers to listen to his broken record of how nationality trumps independence of thought.. if you don't live in the specific country, you are not allowed to express a viewpoint... just imagine george soros not having a viewpoint on every country he has fucked over the past however many years? i am sure par lang feels the same way, lol..

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2016 5:15 utc | 54

Supposedly up to two millions bots signed online petition for re-vote. That's an open gate for revote if negotiation between UK and German banksters concludes successfully for London.

Note that the result of the vote was rigged this time as well while allowing fopr Brexit, but in fact vast majority over 65 % to 70% voted for leave but that result would have been more difficult to reverse in a new vote.

All elections are rigged as Walter Lipman said those morons (citizen) will not allowed to hurt themselves with their stupid voting.

Posted by: Kalen | Jun 26 2016 9:09 utc | 55

Why do the conservatives get to choose the next PM in Britain? Why isn't there going to be a vote of no-confidence and a new election?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 26 2016 11:48 utc | 56

hoarsewhisperer - par lang is pat lang
Posted by: james | Jun 26, 2016 1:15:27 AM | 54

The possibility crossed my mind but I assumed PL would know how to spell His own name. But it didn't matter. I always try to sound more polite than necessary in a dispute. It's more fun than flinging/ swapping insults.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 26 2016 12:45 utc | 57

Now come the Scots fighting to defend their queen (and the juicy EU subsidies she receives for her estates!)

Posted by: Mina | Jun 26 2016 13:32 utc | 58

40;You funny guy.Britain only joined the club a decade or so ago,and knows how to run a nation on its own.
The banksters are in a tizzy,as their stinkin globalization schemes are checked first by the British and then in Nov,Americans.
That bastion of believablity, the Indy,says HB opens double digit lead.
Manufacturing dissent,too bad Americans don't read it.

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 26 2016 13:57 utc | 59

52;Exactly the same,except the neocons are unapologetic criminals,while the neolibs apologize.

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 26 2016 13:58 utc | 60

Re: Posted by: jfl | Jun 26, 2016 7:48:47 AM | 56

It seems you misunderstand the concept of Parliamentary Democracy.

Electors don't elect the Prime Minister, the representatives sent to Parliament elect the Prime Minister.

It is not a Presidential system you know.

Posted by: Jules | Jun 26 2016 15:01 utc | 61

Re: Posted by: Mina | Jun 26, 2016 9:32:55 AM | 58

If the Scots go their own way you can be sure of something, they will not want some Englanders holding onto all their Scottish based estates.

Scotland will demand their own Royal lineage.

Step forward King Harry of Scotland. First King of a newly Independent Scotland.

You heard it here first.

Posted by: Jules | Jun 26 2016 15:08 utc | 62

Posted before that there will NOT be another vote, that ship has sailed.

Problem here is that GB does not do referendums and this one was crazy from the start. Normally (in CH for ex.) an initiative or a ref. is launched by the person/party/group that seeks change, mild or radical, challenging the status quo, Gvmt. policy, Corporations, etc.

In GB it was promised and carried out due to internal political-circle-in-group calculations (e.g. Tory party fishing for UKIP votes, see France and the Sark) - the PM, no. 1, instigated it, set it up, campaigned AGAINST the proposal. How wacky is that? And how come a PM campaigns? If a democratic ref. is to have meaning surely the top brass keeps away?

The campaign was appalling, on both sides. The Leave strategy was mapped out long ago and in fact their choices were narrow (emotion, ‘immigants’, jobs, sovereignity, etc.) but the Remains did a terrible job, only widening the class divide with arrogance and BS. Both sides spouted rubbish. “Take back border control” (GB is not part of Schengen, immigration from the EU to GB is low, etc.) vs. “Diversity is great for communities, mutual understanding between ppls, Kumbaya! wow free-visa travel etc. etc.” - it really looks like the lot of them are glib PR fakers in cahoots; the Englanders told them all to put a sock in it. The satellites (Scotland and N. Ireland) prefer a far-off master who shunts some funds and favors to them vs. the closer dominating power (England. In fact the EU through its ‘integration’ policies and pushing for ‘regions’ instead of ‘Nation States’ has encouraged these splits.)

The powers that are against Brexit will use this to blockade any move. - b.

Agree ..wrote before they may/will find some way around. (See Cameron who stays on for some time and hands the decision for provoking Leave to ..someone else!)

However there is a counter-argument, which is why everyone is skating around clueless. Finance, the energy biz (the most energy-rich country in the EU just left it, btw), global corps, the Hegemon, and more, can adapt to changes (somewhat) but can’t function under uncertainty. They will want to have this matter resolved as quickly as possible, to get on with biz. as usual, even if under very different conditions. Even the EU itself (Merkel, Hollande..) wants to wind this up, to ‘concentrate on the core’, ‘regroup’, ‘defend’ etc. while waffling about ‘needs for reform’ which will never take place.

(ps. - i support brexit but not ukip)

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 26 2016 15:10 utc | 63

@57 hoarsewhisperer.. thanks.. you are just more civilized then me, lol..

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2016 16:38 utc | 64

What does this mean for Assange sitting in the embassy?

Posted by: Daisee | Jun 26 2016 17:26 utc | 65

Central to all of the opinions and comments I've been reading since Friday's win is the electorate the world over is AWAKENED, and if they weren't on Friday they are today, to the nefarious, underhanded, secretive Western cabal's march toward Globalism/NWO.

Thanks to the Brexit vote the U.S. march towards Globalism has taken a seat at the 2016 campaign table.

Since 2008, the more conservative voices in alternative news media throughout the world has relentlessly pounded home the facts by ripping off the masks of the fakery called 'government'. Of course many were writing about this takeover long before 2008, but my point is, at least when speaking about the U.S., the energy shifted into high gear following the '08 election in the states.

Back in '08 the Republican/Conservative voters sensed something wasn't right and began in earnest to figure out what in the world was really going on and down the rabbit holes they went. While digging to learn what the root cause of the their unease was their brethren passed Obamacare, Tea Party groups were skewered, taunted and belittled by the Left, Breitbart, a massive influence on conservatives, dies on a sidewalk of a heart attack following a glass of wine, the FBI was caught gun running across the border, no bankers went to jail let alone to court, no accountability, Hillary's state dept seemingly aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood, the Arab springs, the Cantor's and Boehner's in the house always aligning themselves in the end with neolibs, the massive surveillance across the globe, the senseless loss of lives in the Middle East all for the sake of regime change so the West could/can divide the people and pillage the resources to line their greedy pockets and so, so much more.

Across the pond, the EU has been using austerity measures, a rather foreign concept, like a cudgel on Greece, Cyprus, Spain, etc. all the while secretly sending their military to Libya, Iraq, Syria and goodness knows where else. Having Merkel order millions of refugees to be re settled throughout the EU, the pensions debacle, unemployment rates skyrocketing, housing unattainable, the constant fearmongering of terrorist attacks...

While the conservative right/middle here in the U.S. was awakening, the left remained stubbornly silent preferring blinders and hands over their ears all the while remaining loyal to the leadership rather than the values that once made the Democratic Party a platform for the people. The middle grew larger and made it their business, not all, of course, but damned many to learn too what was really going on.

Back in 2008 I'd be reading articles about which pill had been taken--the blue/red pill, the political/policy matrix, the communication matrix and the 'wake up' articles. Alex Jones tag line 'There's a war on for your mind'. The comment threads were so painful to read b/c a few folks then were yelling at anyone and everyone to 'wake up' 'wake up' and they meant it.

The conservative right, and I think it's safe to say, the conservative middle has awakened here in the U.S. and the Brexit vote certainly shows the majority of the electorate has awakened to their leaderships dishonest, backroom deals, pay to play, talking out of both sides of their mouth, cozy elite club (literally).

The Brexit vote is the clearest indicator of the Zeitgeist or the growing trend of our time, that is 50+1 have AWAKENED to Globalism's agenda and at least in Britain, the voters have rejected it by voting to Leave the EU. Going back is a loss and nobody wants to be a loser.

I believe this trend is only going to grow, strengthen and solidify as more bother themselves to learn Globalism's agenda. As well, people intuitively align themselves with winners and fighting the elites agenda of Globalism is now a winning proposition thanks to Brexit.

Efforts I'm certain, enormous efforts, will be made by the Globalists to stuff the genie back into the proverbial bottle, but such efforts will be an exercise in futility. But try they will and try they must.

The comment posted by Yul@40 suggests Cameron is putting the onus of Brexit on whomever will replace him. I ask, so what? Why on earth would Cameron ever be expected to lead the departure? The Brexit vote was as much about him as it was about the EU's governance. The next dance is going to be when Article 50 is triggered, not if. This is the next phase of Brexit's battle and yes, the journey is going to be chock full of peaks and valleys, but I wholeheartedly believe in the end the voters will prevail because they must.

And as for the current propaganda campaign regarding the petition for a re vote? This effort too will fade away into the shadows of time. Few, very few, ever expected a Brexit win by more than a million votes against Remain. I know some say a million votes isn't that much, but unless you've run a political campaign I can promise you that it is that much.

And I'd argue, given the growing trend of AWAKENING coupled with an already embarrassing loss equals the risk of losing, again. Globalists are a lot of things but they aren't stupid, but then again...

Globalism lost on Friday. The People won. And the People aren't going to go backwards. It's not in our best interest and it's just not in our nature.

The Brexit vote propelled the very real tug of war -- Globalism v The People -- out of the shadows and into the light of a very bright sunny day...

Next up, November...

Posted by: h | Jun 26 2016 17:30 utc | 66

Too funny - 3M+ ‘Remain’ Petition Uses ‘Script’ To ‘Fake’ Signatures: 25,000 From North Korea, 2,800 From Uninhabitable Antarctic -

Posted by: h | Jun 26 2016 17:51 utc | 67

re Noirette 63

Posted before that there will NOT be another vote, that ship has sailed.
Actually, I think you might not be quite right. The issue is that there was only a small majority of 4 percentage points, and it is really a very serious decision for the future of Britain. The Tory government should have imposed a higher bar, but didn't, because the whole thing was really not about leaving, but about settling disputes within the Tory party.

Some kind of confirmation is needed. Heseltine, as a Tory elder, notorious pro-European, it is true:

He said he thought the House of Commons would not pass legislation to leave the EU without either a general election, or a second referendum once the terms of withdrawal are clear.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 26 2016 18:09 utc | 68

"I believe this trend is only going to grow, strengthen and solidify as more bother themselves to learn Globalism's agenda. As well, people intuitively align themselves with winners and fighting the elites agenda of Globalism is now a winning proposition thanks to Brexit.

Efforts I'm certain, enormous efforts, will be made by the Globalists to stuff the genie back into the proverbial bottle, but such efforts will be an exercise in futility. But try they will and try they must. "

Well said, h; well said!

The negativity is strong in all media even at Yves at, ditto, as she was for Greece. They even don't seem to mind over there that the British Labour Party doesn't represent laborers! For these people it is TINA, TINA, TINA and 'jobs won't EVER be coming back.'

I do recommend the "Brexit - Goal!" Crosstalk at (I know it isn't prudent to link to saker, but he does present videos in a format that my old computer can digest, so I am just mentioning that for any others that would find it useful. rt always jams me up.)

Posted by: juliania | Jun 26 2016 18:12 utc | 69

40;You funny guy.Britain only joined the club a decade or so ago,and knows how to run a nation on its own.

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 26, 2016 9:57:01 AM | 59

That's the second time you've posted that bullshit. First you try to pretend that they joined the EU fifteen years ago now you falsely claim that the "only joined the club a decade or so ago".

Britain acceded to the EU in 1972 and joined on January 1st 1973 a decision ratified by the British electorate in their 1975 referendum on the topic.

You don't strenghten your case by posting blatant falsehoods.

Posted by: Irony maiden | Jun 26 2016 18:37 utc | 70

@ 70

He must be from the same gang who google "what is the EU?" on Friday morning :-)

or like the Breaking News from FOX NEWS : UK is leaving the UN !!!

Posted by: Yul | Jun 26 2016 18:50 utc | 71

@71 - Entirely probable!

Posted by: Irony maiden | Jun 26 2016 19:06 utc | 72

@ Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 26, 2016 2:09:13 PM | 68

And if the vote had been the other way 52% remain and 48% leave would you be saying the same thing?

"Some kind of confirmation is needed."

A democratically elected government* that won a large majority chose to call a referendum. Said referendum to be decided by simple majority. There was a clear if small majority but suddenly you want to them to do it all over again just like all the other EU referenda that didn't come up with the "right" answer.

*Yes I know their FPTP voting system sucks but they voted to keep it in their 2011 referendum.

Posted by: Irony maiden | Jun 26 2016 19:24 utc | 73

New Yorker
Jo Cox, the Brexit Vote, and the Politics of Murder
By Ed Caesar , June 24, 2016
“We just want our country back.” Both men expected the “Jo Cox thing” to have “skewed” the result toward Remain, but they still expected a majority in the district to have voted Leave.
The counting area of Kirklees, which incorporates Batley, voted Leave by a margin of fifty-five per cent to forty-five per cent.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 26 2016 19:34 utc | 74

@66 h... it was cameron that said he would initiate clause 50 immediately.. so, it's a good thing the bullshitter is saying he will step down... find another liar to replace him.. it doesn't matter.. you are correct - people realize they are being had by this globalism business.. and the 1% are not going to take a 'no' either.. there will be some sort of hi-jinx where it is stalled, or another vote over the specifics is given to get the right answer... no f'king way this is going to go down as if little people have any sort of say in the matter.. when they vote the wrong way, it is becuase they are xenophobic or whatever lame ass excuse the establishment can come up to, to convince little people to be conned into behaving properly (read- voting the proper way)..

@68 laguerre.. yes - that is what b has been saying and what i will say too.. the 1% who are have the political class in tow will not accept anything other then the continued breakdown of anything that gets in their way.. the politicians are only to happy to comply, not to mention the msm which is also bought and paid for.. hopefully more folks are waking up to this.. i am all for anti-establishment as the establishment are killing us..

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2016 19:47 utc | 75

Posted by: h | Jun 26, 2016 1:30:43 PM | 66

48% are "the people", too. Rule of thumb - if someone talks about "the people" - I would recommend to keep a distance.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 26 2016 19:53 utc | 76

interesting and related article from john helmer..


Posted by: james | Jun 26 2016 20:15 utc | 77

Laguerre at 68. The issue is that there was only a small majority of 4 percentage points, and it is really a very serious decision for the future of Britain.

Quite right, I agree, but a close result was perfectly predictable from the start, and nobody peeped a bloody word. (Getting into talking British..) Cameron pushed it ahead.

I base my judgement that no second vote will be forthcoming on:

a) pride and the democracy shtick, we da best, we respect the ppl etc.

b) doing a second vote is past its sell date, and might create tremendous social anger

c) it might furnish the same or even ‘worse’ result (blowback at not respecting the first vote, in any case totally risky), UKIP has coasted gloriously on ‘Brexit’ for 10 years, now that it has ‘won’ it won’t actually do anything, take a hand, and would thus love to bray like stuck pigs at a second vote, grist for their mill

d) a good part of the Brit public AND some elites want to quit the EU (different motives, some opportunistic etc.)

e) GB has always been an outlier and uneasy member, the EU did its best to keep it IN with all kinds of favors (no Euro, no Schengen, etc.), the latest being the major concessions made to Cameron so he could go back home and say SEE I got this and that, which didn’t work

f) being or not a EU member is a sort of sliding scale and to protect what the neo-aristo class wants other avenues are open

g) both the REMAIN Tories and Labour (ex. leaders Cameron and Corbyn) seem to have accepted defeat, and as their parties are split on the issue they are ruderless.

Oof! I hope I convinced you Laguerre! But we will see…who knows.

Brexit imho is also the result of the weakening power of the the USA. Which is now having difficulties keeping its ‘allies’ and puppets in hand (EU, KSA, for ex. GB obviously..)

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 26 2016 20:29 utc | 78

@68 lg, 'Some kind of confirmation is needed.'

You're a closet Remainer yourself?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 26 2016 20:31 utc | 79

Sigh meanwhile we read that Clinton is now leading even more against Trump, 10%

whatever happend with the Assange threat to release documents? Just bogus?

Posted by: Robz | Jun 26 2016 20:50 utc | 80

if it's any indication here in b.c. canada, a vote on proportional representation was held in 2005... 57% voted in favour, but the gov't had made the threshold 60% for it to be adopted!!! they did the vote again in 2009, changed wording and managed to flip it in the reverse 60.9% in favour of the continued status quo.... when politicians require a certain result, they usually manage to get it... this example with cameron is interesting as he adhered to what i think is a fair referendum, but has only really fallen down in not honouring his word of engaging clause 50 immediately after... that's generally how i see it..

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2016 20:52 utc | 81

'public poles' bought and paid for by the same folks who get to word the questions any way they like... corporations never tell you who paid for the pole, unless of course the results are what they want to publish! public poling prior to brexit gave a remain answer.. i suspect we will be hearing how clinton is leading in the polls right up until the day of the election.. poles are for idiots to follow - 101 propaganda technique..

Posted by: james | Jun 26 2016 20:55 utc | 82

@78, Noirette, 'd) a good part of the Brit public AND some elites want to quit the EU (different motives, some opportunistic etc.)'

Have you seen BREXITthe full movie?

It is very slick, well funded, toff heads talking ...

1. the EU is anti-democratic
2. the EU is a regulatory nightmare

The people ... just to scare somebody ... are at 1.
The 1% ... The City of London ... are at 2. The wild "West" of 'liberal' - rapine free from regulation - finance.

It's like dejavu ... WW II ... all over again. A People's History of the Second World War. The fascist powers that are and the people concurrently fighting fascism. The FPTA ... not so much, actually.

The point seems to me to be, everywhere not just in Britain, to be aware of those who would always co-opt the struggle for democracy in the interests of fascism. As Grieved has pointed out,

All the headaches and nightmares of the withdrawal process cited by the Guardian are actually opportunities to revise the nature of the British state. As with all withdrawals, the pain is simply an increased sensitivity to a reality formerly numbed.

all the points that have set the 1%+15% hair on fire are exactly the avenues along which radical change is to be effected as the solution. There is no democratic leadership anywhere - in Britain the Labour Party seems hopeless - it's up to ourselves. We're the only ones here.

And yes, indeed, 'Brexit imho is also the result of the weakening power of the the USA. Which is now having difficulties keeping its ‘allies’ and puppets in hand (EU, KSA, for ex. GB obviously..)'.

We must stay strong, and prevail. Now or never.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 26 2016 20:55 utc | 83

So many desperate delusional leftist writers congratulating British resistance to EU. Ask same people to do more than vote and they would rather watch bad TV.

Posted by: tom | Jun 26 2016 21:01 utc | 84

@81. james

I think that 'proportional representation' is just another name for divide and conquer. A means to reify class structure. Look at Germany. I'm for poll to majority, no matter how many polls it takes. Either one will break the duopoly. As well, poll to majority represents the least change to effect ... it's the way most people think it works already.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 26 2016 21:04 utc | 85

@84 tom

So many morbid misanthropic, closet Remainers, aghast at Brexit. Ask such people even to vote and they would rather watch endless reruns on TV.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 26 2016 21:11 utc | 86

jfl at 83 I will watch it (Brexit the full movie.) Prevail now or never it is going to be very tough…

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 26 2016 21:34 utc | 87

UK is leaving the UN - Yul at 71.

This actually brings up an interesting point which is not discussed. Now I know the UN is weak etc. (useless, or fill in more acerbic criticisms..) but as things stand Great Britain has the power of veto, as 1 of the 5 permanent members of the Security Council, the winners of WW2.

Were GB to dissolve.. for ex. if Scotland, N. Ireland, and the Republic of Ireland joined together in a New federation/country/what not (1) Great Britain would lose that seat and possibly veto power unless it managed to get these break-aways and ‘the new entity’ to sign over its rights to have England (London?) represent them at the Security Council, which might very well not happen.

When the USSR split up, the Security Council seat of the USSR just passed to Russia, the splitters agreed to give their ‘voice’ to Russia, see the Alma-Ata treaty.

NY Times archives (hope it works)

1. For anyone who is contemplating this, it is imperative that the new ‘Gaelic Unity’ or what not, sets up a double currency system, Euro and XXX, a new second currency, Pfund or ? (via Gvmt. owned central bank.)

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 26 2016 21:47 utc | 88

@ Noirette "Brexit imho is also the result of the weakening power of the the USA. Which is now having difficulties keeping its ‘allies’ and puppets in hand (EU, KSA, for ex. GB obviously..)"

You might be interested in this from the Financial Times:

5 hours ago by: Alex Barker in Brussels and George Parker and Jim Pickard in London

John Kerry, the US secretary of state, will visit Brussels and London to discuss the crisis as Washington reassesses its relations with London. “The US must face the fact that the UK will likely be less of an effective and reliable partner in global affairs,” said Jim Stavridis, former Nato supreme commander.

Britain faces up to waning influence on global stage —

Posted by: Irony maiden | Jun 26 2016 21:52 utc | 89

The Independent: The Chilcot Report and the Brexit Campaign

Posted by: somebody | Jun 26 2016 22:58 utc | 90

Oh well, it is getting serious ...

The Pope has warned against the “Balkanisation” of Europe in the wake of Britain’s vote to leave the EU and urged the bloc to chart a new way forward by giving member states greater freedoms, Agence France-Presse reports.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 26 2016 23:02 utc | 91

@88 Noirette

Link to Text of Accords by Former Soviet Republics Setting Up a Commonwealth, the (CIS), worked great. Thanks.

Speaking of the UN ... how would that organization be democratized?

1. Subjugation of the Security Council and Secretariat General to the General Assembly,
2. their election,
3. the elimination of 'super powers' and their vetoes,
4. and so on ...

That seems certainly as or more important than the deconstruction of the EU/democratization of a replacement institution.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 26 2016 23:32 utc | 92

@90 somebody

The Independent is trying to dirty Brexit by associating the names of some of the same stooges who jumped in front to lead the (Independent conjured) parade of support for the war in Iraq with those same names now having jumped in front of the bona fide Brexit parade to 'lead' it. Elementary propaganda. We're going to see a lot more of it.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 26 2016 23:49 utc | 93

@89 im

Sorry ... northing at your link but an advertisement for

Posted by: jfl | Jun 26 2016 23:51 utc | 94

@87 Noirette

The hard part is accepting responsibility for our own affairs, and the governments erected above us in our own respective states are our own affairs, no matter how much we revile 'them' and bewail our supposed 'impotence' - or would we prefer the US/EU/UN/NATO to invade and 'straighten them up' for us?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 27 2016 0:01 utc | 95

i thought glenn greenwalds view on brexit were quite good as usual...

Posted by: james | Jun 27 2016 0:01 utc | 96

There is every cause for optimism; a Britain rebooted, reset, renewed and able to engage with the whole world. This was a seismic campaign whose lessons must be learnt by politicians at home and abroad. We heard the voices of millions of the forgotten people, who have seen no real increase in their incomes, while FTSE-100 chiefs now earn 150 times the average pay of their employees. We must pursue actively the one-nation policies that are among David Cameron’s fine legacy, such as his campaigns on the Living Wage and Life Chances. There is no doubt that many were speaking up for themselves.

PM in waiting announces Brexit is shite.

Posted by: Nana2007 | Jun 27 2016 1:47 utc | 97

Hey the Home Depot is selling seconds and seconds is all there is. Take a breather and all quarterfinals have resulted in these highlights resulting in penalties which set the stage for the finals. You start your mental game right now. Where am I? There are faces on both ends of it. For the tahder said there is both, and eyes are many, not that we haven't seen it happen on the right side are henceforth summed up.

Posted by: Nana2007 | Jun 27 2016 2:47 utc | 98

We had just returned in the spring.

Trying to stand still.

Now that was cool. A fourteen year professional put a shirt over his waist for home.

That's where Romero went. .

That rotten sonofabitch and he never did anything for me.

Posted by: Nana2007 | Jun 27 2016 2:58 utc | 99

@88 Noirette, @92

The CIS complex is seemingly as bewildering as the EU, although impotent when compared to the power the EU wields over its members. Another compare/contrast exercise USA/Russia.

I made a graph of the CIS, CISFTA, EAEU, CSTO and their subsets of the CIS membership. I find a picture worth many, if not a thousand words.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 27 2016 5:56 utc | 100

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