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June 22, 2016

Open Thread 2016-22

News & views ...

Posted by b on June 22, 2016 at 18:23 UTC | Permalink

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Jill Stein (Green Party) at 7% in latest CNN poll with NO significant campaigning by the Greens!!!

RCP 4-way Polls

Jill Stein website

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 22 2016 19:11 utc | 1

There is an interesting campaign going on in Washington right now pushing for a no-fly zone over Syria. As we saw in an earlier thread the petition by those 51 FSOs inside the State Dept calling for this. That was preceded by the main editorial in the WaPo calling for the same. Then yesterday the Yazidi woman who was held as a "sex slave" by ISIS testified before Congress and called for Obama to set up no fly zones so refugees could find safety. Her testimony was horrific and only the most heartless could dismiss her story. But since ISIS does not have nor has ever had an airforce it is not clear how a no fly zone would have prevented the horror she experienced.

This is obviously orchestrated very likely involving the Hillary campaign and/or those who are trying to influence her. Hillary has after all called for such in recent months. Could Hillary really be that stupid or incompetent to set off a shooting war with Russia?

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 22 2016 19:27 utc | 2

Hillary may be the fist president from the democratic party to be impeached.

Posted by: Northern Observer | Jun 22 2016 19:35 utc | 3

@ ToivoS | Jun 22, 2016 3:27:26 PM

Expect them to throw anything including the kitchen sink to take full control of Syria . WW3 starting in Syria has the best odds to be the place where its going to happen .:>( ....I keep wondering and hoping that China might somehow help out . A fresh batch of 50,000 well trained troops wouldn't hurt .

Posted by: Terry | Jun 22 2016 19:36 utc | 4

Here are my two cents on Syria: I think we're seeing Hillary's people surreptitiously taking over the US's foreign policy even before Obama leaves office (those 51 idiots asking for increased bombing in Syria didn't come from nowhere). IMO the idea will be to try to reproduce an "Afghanistan-Soviet debacle" for Russia in Syria today. Putin already faces the challenge of increasing his troop commitment in order to salvage Assad. He seemingly has balked at that, as Col. Lang has suggested in his blog: "If you watch the embedded SITREP in this South Front report you will learn that the authors at South Front (I assume we are in one way or another talking about Russians) agree with me that the R+6 coalition is attempting to do too much with insufficient forces. This is a recipe for failure."

Posted by: Maracatu | Jun 22 2016 19:55 utc | 5

Our problem is that a terrorist organization has taken over our government.

Posted by: Barbara | Jun 22 2016 19:57 utc | 6


Yep moving up and I read somewhere one bernies people have joined Jill team.

Posted by: jo6pac | Jun 22 2016 20:00 utc | 7

@3 "Hillary may be the fist president from the democratic party to be impeached."

Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were both impeached. Both democrats. In fact, only democrats have been impeached.

Posted by: skuppers | Jun 22 2016 20:00 utc | 8

@1 I hope she can win, here's a petition I am helping to promote:
Bernie Sanders should meet with Dr. Jill Stein

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jun 22 2016 20:02 utc | 9

There is no WW3 scenario only nuke apocalypse that would be bad for business and even Putin isn't about to sacrifice his nation for Assad or the Iranians.

The US apparatchiks have measured the Russian ability to protect Assad and found them lacking and are moving to ratchet up the rhetoric hopefully forcing a deal without any real escalation but they appear ready to directly confront the Russians in Syria.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Jun 22 2016 20:27 utc | 10

The layout of the previous post has gone haywire, at least on my computer. The columns run completely across the screen making them impossible to read. Can't someone correct that?

Posted by: Quentin | Jun 22 2016 20:32 utc | 11


I real don't want Bernie on the Green ticket do to his foreign policy beliefs.

Here something going on to keep people in the demodog party but it's time to throw them and their 1% friends under the bus like they have done to us so many times in the past and will continue in the future.

Posted by: jo6pac | Jun 22 2016 20:48 utc | 12

#10 wow. For once I agree with you. Those forces working for the no fly zone over Syria do not want nuclear war. They happen to believe that in any game of chicken the Russians will blink first. However, I would hope that this would happen but there are other scenarios here short (it is hoped) of nuclear war. The Russians also do not want nuclear war. They like the Chinese have been preparing their military in conventional war tactics against the US. Not that these tactics will defeat the US but that they will cause so much damage that it would drain domestic support for future US aggression against those countries.

Both China and Russia have concentrated their defenses on anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles. Today, the Russians have the ability to sink any US warship in either the Black or Baltic seas. The Russians have made those weapons available to Iran and they may possibly be able to easily sink any destroyer or cruiser in the Persian Gulf. My fear is that if, say Russia, sunk say a destroyer with the loss of all hands the fools running the US would panic and then respond with a nuclear escalation. I think Russia and China really are preparing for conventional weapons confrontation with the US. And the battlefield will not be in Syria but on those nations borders. Russian forces in Syria are no more than a trip wire.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 22 2016 21:07 utc | 13

Wayoutwest@10 - "...but they appear ready to directly confront the Russians in Syria..."

Whaa...? You're talking about Americans, right?

The soft invasion of Syria is happening as we speak. What's the latest roll call: French, Belgian, German, UK special forces? Norway on deck? NATO has already invaded without confronting Russia. The U.S. will not permit Sunnistan to fall. If you don't believe the pipeline reason, then you have to recognize the NATO Sunni Corridor must exist to block the Shia Corridor from Iran.

The U.S./Israeli plan to separate Syria and create the Sunni/Turkey corridor is going along as always planned - although they're rushing as of late. We're at the stage where Turkey and Jordan are shutting their borders. Useless in practice, but necessary to give western MSM the cover story of the threat of ISIS spreading to those countries. Laughable because that's where the head-choppers came from, but reason has nothing to do with propaganda. ZATO has to foment a massive, well-publicised humanitarian crisis to justify the next partitioning step.

Thus, the humanitarian crisis (which has always existed) will now be touted as a newly-discovered reason for NATO/UN peacekeeping and humanitarian intervention. As long as that intervention creates a well-guarded Sunni Corridor from north to south Syria with the appropriate UN buffer zones. Oh yeah - it should include nearly all of Syria's oil resources (for future U.S. use). Toss in a few bazillion blue helmets and NATO air support for the inevitable No-fly Zones and Operation Yinon: Block the Evil Shia Corridor will have been accomplished.

Russia still has its port and doesn't have to bomb anyone else. Assad still has a leftover chunk of partitioned Syria without any oil, gas or water - but Israel will sell them all they want for a slight premium. The Kurds get whatever bones they're thrown. And the U.S. and Israel have their coveted Sunnistan - even though the Sunnis will be impoverished and little more than oil well guards and human shields for any imaginary Iranian invasion of Syria. Oh, and foreign diplomats will have guaranteed jobs for a decade as they try to solve the unsolvable problem they created.

Halliburton and their little Cheney KBR buddy are already salivating over the reconstruction contracts. Let's get those damn blue helmets in there! The former KBR is loosing money every second this scheme is delayed.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 22 2016 21:16 utc | 14

pretty sorry state of affairs when the world - americans in particular - think it is okay to play chicken over the possibility of nuclear war... basically sums up the level of stupidity in the usa today - reflected best in the idiots running for political office who haven't a clue about anything their there own political future with the military industrial complex/clinton..

Posted by: james | Jun 22 2016 21:17 utc | 15

toivo - i really think americans need to be thinking the next war will be on their homeland... enough of the shit of making war in faraway lands on others... americans need to fucking wake up..

Posted by: james | Jun 22 2016 21:19 utc | 16

jo6pac @12

No need to worry. Bernie is a Democratic Party loyalist who counts top Democrats as his friends. He will not join/lead any other party. He will dutifully fulfill his role as sheepdog - which now means stringing along his supporters until the Convention.

Worry instead about how the DNC will try to undermine the Greens with smoke and mirrors like fake grassroots groups and controlled opposition.

The link you provided is a perfect example. They want to talk about socialism in the abstract?! They want to (pretend to) lay the groundwork for a future third-party. Bogus claptrap.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 22 2016 21:23 utc | 17

Russia MOD need to bring into Syria the top of the line S-500. give THE u's/Israel a serious warning. You fly-you die.

Also, what's happening is the SAA and co. are luring the ISIS to leave their structures and come out into the exert so they car isolated and destructible. A, that it. lure isis in to the open. One team at a time.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 22 2016 21:35 utc | 18

PavewayIV @14 Yinon was plan A from the start. But what about the Kurds? Do you think the US backed YPG units will form a Rojava or a syrian Kurdistan along the border with Turkey? All they need is to close the gap between Azaz and Manbij (Al Bab being the next goal).

Posted by: jean | Jun 22 2016 21:51 utc | 19

To put the US and EU at their knees, a simple massive blackout for one week will suffice. Just think about the mayhem and looting that will follow...

Posted by: jean | Jun 22 2016 21:56 utc | 20

James ...
If Only ...
War in, by and for Americans!
What a grand idea ... but who?

I'm hoping for revolution in the French style in which oligarchs are mostly wiped out. But a nasty war IN the US would do ... maybe even with a Bolshevik style take-over? THAT might get US off our asses regarding deporting wars to other people. We haven't had some good old bloodshed in the US since the 1860's (except for killing natives and blacks, but as Penelope made clear, they are so long ago and way unwhite to care much about any more) ... long overdue in my opinion. Our complacency has led to complicity as a hegemon.
Time for that to change ...

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 22 2016 21:59 utc | 21

I know you're not particularly interested, but the Brits are getting out of their minds on the referendum. It's getting totally irrational. The OUT people are ready to produce any lie to advance their position. It's 50/50.

It's going to be very serious, if they vote out. The whole western system in question.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 22 2016 22:09 utc | 22

You may not like the western system, as I don't, but the alternative is more extreme right.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 22 2016 22:11 utc | 23

System is fubar. People are fed up. Let the chips fall where they may. Smart play is to get out of EU.

Russia has been boxed into a corner by the Rep, Dem, Brit, NATO neocons. Russia has been exceedingly patient and diplomatic at every turn. Russia should be well prepared now to militarily defend the legitimate Syrian Government and it territory.

Posted by: fast freddy | Jun 22 2016 22:23 utc | 24

Imagine the US attacking Syria, but suffering heavy losses in the process. It is one thing to attack weak opponents but quite another to attack strong opponents who can take a heavy toll of the attackers. If the Russia, Syria, Iran coalition was to succeed in sinking or severely damaging a US carrier, a record breaking stock crash and a huge rise in gold could happen in the twinkling of an eye.

Perhaps that is why many in the military are not at all anxious to do the neo cons bidding.

Posted by: zucco | Jun 22 2016 23:01 utc | 25

nice article from smoothie who posts here from time to time..

Posted by: james | Jun 22 2016 23:01 utc | 26

@5 maracatu, 'I think we're seeing Hillary's people surreptitiously taking over the US's foreign policy ...'

Surreptitiously! You're kidding, right? It's 'The king is dead long live the queen!' in Neolibraconia!

They're ready for more DDD&D, mere shameless betrayal is not even noted. Anything for the cause!

@23 lg 'You may not like the western system, as I don't, but the alternative is more extreme right'

The USA has successfully introduced its Lessor Of Two Evils™ system into the EU.

The demise of the EU is necessary, perhaps sufficient, to end the wars in MENA, and to put off, at least, WW III.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 22 2016 23:06 utc | 27

UK and Brexit: NATO Warns of Terrorism

More bs ... hoping the Leave camp wins tomorrow. As I have written, Britain is a key voice inside Europe for NATO aggression. See my earlier posts about the Atlantic Council, a think tank for ambitious neocons seeking a career in US foreign policy. I'm thinking about Yvo Daalder a few years ago: "make Russia a pariah state" ahead of further NATO expansion. Libya and Syria were well planned for turmoil and chaos. Serving ally Israel and the Gulf States by placing harsh sanctions on Iran. Must get rid of the axis Tehran – Baghdad – Damascus – Beirut and global terror of Shia funded by the Ayatollahs.

Exclusive: Nato chief says UK staying in the EU is key to fighting terrorism | The Guardian |

Britain’s role at the heart of Europe is crucial in combating terrorism and illegal mass migration, the head of Nato has said on the eve of the UK referendum on EU membership.

In an interview with the Guardian at Nato headquarters in Brussels, Jens Stoltenberg, the secretary general, also said a fragmented Europe would exacerbate instability in the region.

His intervention came on the last day of campaigning before Thursday’s vote.

France’s president, François Hollande, said the European Union’s future was at stake. “There’s a very serious risk for the United Kingdom not to be able to access the common market and … the European economic area any more,” he said. France would “draw all the conclusions” of a vote to leave. “This would be irreversible.”

Posted by: Oui | Jun 22 2016 23:14 utc | 28

@25 zucco, 'sinking or severely damaging a US carrier'

US Carrier Strike Groups Locations Map – June 17, 2016

Eisenhower is following Truman in the Mediterranean, according to Southfront. I imagine the Russians will have to go to the source, eventually, rather than endlessly to expend the surface-to-air missiles in Syria which they'll need to defend Russia itself. PaveWay would know better than I.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 22 2016 23:20 utc | 29


Posted by: Eliza Doolittle | Jun 22 2016 23:26 utc | 30

To Brexit or not? The Brits will decide tomorrow. Will the status quo scaremongering work once again? Will the Brits cede their sovereignty to EU commissars?

Posted by: ab initio | Jun 22 2016 23:35 utc | 31

Re: Posted by: Northern Observer | Jun 22, 2016 3:35:04 PM | 3
Hillary may be the fist president from the democratic party to be impeached.

Very funny. You know her husband, the man with the fist, was impeached don't you?

Posted by: Julian | Jun 22 2016 23:38 utc | 32

rg the lg, Don't "restate" (lie about) anything that I say. You are far too blinded by hostility to understand anything but your own worst angels-- quite aptly turned on by all those misanthropist propagandists you've read.
You STILL haven't figured out who empowers that propaganda. It's not the good guys.
Barbara, "Our problem is that a terrorist organization has taken over our government."
That's it exactly. I admire your brevity and ability to put the criminality where it belongs.

Posted by: Penelope | Jun 22 2016 23:49 utc | 33

5,085,444 people voted in the Syrian parliamentary elections on 13 April 2016.

The commencement day of the new parliament was on 7 June 2016. On commencement day, the parliament elected a new Speaker of the Assembly, which is the most important office. The person who holds the office of Speaker is the most powerful and publicly visible member of the Parliament. The new Speaker is Hadiyeh Khalaf Abbas. She was born in 1958 in Deir Ezzor and holds a PhD in Agricultural Engineering from University of Aleppo. From 1988 to 1998 she was a member of the local leadership of the Deir Ezzor branch of Al-Baath Arab Socialist Party. She was elected to the national parliament in 2003 representing Deir Ezzor. Recently she has been a member of the parliament's National Reconciliation Committee. The previous Speaker of the Assembly, May 2012 - May 2016, was Mohammad Jihad al-Laham, who is also a member of the Baath Party. .

On the parliament's commencement day on 7 June 2016, Bashar Assad went into the parliament chamber and gave a speech. After his arrival on the floor the chamber, the members of parliament all rose to their feet and chanted the well-known popular chant Ber-rouh bed-dam nafdeek ya Bashar = "With soul with blood we sacrifice for you, Oh Bashar". They did the same at the end of the speech. You can see the video of this event at: , . The second of those videos starts off with some words by the parliament's new Speaker, Hadiyeh Khalaf Abbas.

What this means is that the Assadists have a bone-crunchingly strong grip on electoral representation in Syria.

By the way, an African grey parrot bird in year 2011 was trained to say Ber-rouh bed-dam nafdeek ya Bashar : ; better link uploaded in 2014 . For a foreigner learning Arabic, the parrot's accent and diction are to be emulated. The parrot is better able to say his phrases than the majority of American citizens that have lived in Arabic-speaking countries for years. The current head of the US CIA, William Brennan, lived in Saudi Arabia for years. He cannot speak decent Arabic. And when he tries to, his accent is inferior to that of the above parrot.

Posted by: Ghubar Shabih | Jun 23 2016 0:12 utc | 34

Great read, my thoughts exactly:

Britain will remain in the EU: Why 'Brexit' outcome is a foregone conclusion

Posted by: ProPeace | Jun 23 2016 0:36 utc | 35

and... john helmers article from a few days ago -

the parallels are disturbing..

Posted by: james | Jun 23 2016 0:41 utc | 36

@34 ghubar shabih 'The current head of the US CIA, William Brennan, lived in Saudi Arabia for years'

I'm sure you meant John Brennan. Wikipedia has

At one point in his career, he was a daily intelligence briefer for President Bill Clinton. In 1996 he was CIA station chief in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia when the Khobar Towers bombing killed 19 U.S. servicemen. In 1999 he was appointed chief of staff to George Tenet, then-Director of the CIA.

I hadn't realized he was in Saudi Arabia. I also hadn't realized that he was out and in the revolving door before working for Obama, before having Obama appoint him head of the CIA

His last post within the Intelligence Community was as director of the National Counterterrorism Center in 2004 and 2005, which incorporated information on terrorist activities across U.S. agencies.

Brennan then left government service for a few years, becoming Chairman of the Intelligence and National Security Alliance (INSA) and the CEO of The Analysis Corporation (TAC). He continued to lead TAC after its acquisition by Global Strategies Group in 2007 and its growth as the Global Intelligence Solutions division of Global's North American technology business GTEC, before returning to government service with the Obama administration as Homeland Security Advisor on January 20, 2009.

Made good connections on the other side of the revolving door, I'm sure. No doubt the kickbacks will flow from the drone builders/operators and the electronic communications spies after his next trip through.

He may not be as good as the parrot with Arabic, but he had Obama parroting his lines very well throughout his eight long years. Obama will share those kickbacks as well, I'm sure. Polly wants a cracker.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2016 0:56 utc | 37

@35, pp

I hope the the Brits vote out of the EU. It's shameful that the 'left' is not supporting the Brexit.

@36 james

The last time the US declared war was June 5, 1942 against Bulgaria, Hungary, and Romania. Before that December 1941 against Japan and Germany. Yet it's been nothing but war since. The declaration of war, like the rest of 'details' of the US Constitution and the Constitution itself, are quaint artifacts of another age in Neolibraconia.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2016 1:08 utc | 38

There is no UN mandate for foreign troops in Syria, nor can there be a UN mandate for UN troops, except under legal specifications that Russia approves. Ultimately at stake in Syria is international law. The Russians still hold the cessation of hostilities agreement over the skies of Syria, and I see neither argument nor evidence, either in this thread or anywhere, to suggest that the US and the UN combined can come up with anything to beat that.

It's just like Ukraine, where everyone says Minsk 2.0 is dead, including many people in Donbass, while the only certain fact about Ukraine is that very agreement. It rules the theater, and every force is in check because of it.

Syria will be no different. Within a generous margin currently allowed by Russia, the US can enter only on pain of death unless they cooperate with Russia, which renders them harmless.

Nothing says that the US is holding any cards stronger than those already seen through, evaluated, and matched by the Syrian axis. In the war of pipelines, Russia is winning, and the massive effort to change this that the US would have to introduce into Syria - even supposing the US had the will - is checked by the UN resolutions and the cessation of hostilities agreement. Western companies will not get the contracts to rebuild Syria, those have already started going to Russia.

Nothing in this situation speaks of a need for Russian ground troops - Iran is at stake even more than Russia here, and cannot let Syria be conquered by mercenaries. All that the US can throw at Syria is more mercenaries to be bombed. Eventually the supply lines will be closed. Russia's not going to abandon Syria, ever, and Syria's not going to be partitioned, ever. The return of Golan may take decades of careful work, but it's clear that the expansion of Israeli occupation has been stopped dead, by Russia.


As to China playing its part in this war, look to the Shanghai Gold Exchange to see the soldiers maneuvering for position in the hills, waiting for the moment - which may never come - when a mortal blow must be struck. The real war is global, and only seems asymmetrical if you look at small parts of the world instead of the whole world.


Posted by: Grieved | Jun 23 2016 1:09 utc | 39

jean@19 - "Do you think the US backed YPG units will form a Rojava or a syrian Kurdistan along the border with Turkey?"

The YPG/YPJ are the militia, not the political party.

They PYD is the (self-appointed) leading Rojava political party. The PYD already announced a federation and desire full independence from Syria. They want to see the cantons connected so that an independent Rojava stretches all the way across the top of Syria. The CIA and the U.S. State Department back their scheme and I suspect pretty much own the PYD. The PYD is a relatively small group of idealogues and wealthy, well-connected Kurds. There are many (including many Kurds) who do not feel the PYD represents the people of Rojava or has their best interests in mind. They PYD needs the YPG/YPJ to steal as much Syrian oil, gas and water as possible for the future PYD Kurdistan because they have no economy, no taxes and no money to run their future country.

They YPG/YPJ are average Kurds that just want the wars to end and everyone to leave them alone. They're loyal to their fellow Kurds, not to the PYD. I - and many others - doubt that they will fight and die merely for the land for a PYD-controlled contiguous Rojava. The 'dream' of a unified Rojava is mostly western MSM spew to drum up support for the corrupt PYD and their land-grabbing schemes. It's not that the YPG/YPJ don't want a unified, independent Rojava. They just don't want it right now considering the amount of blood they will have to shed for a U.S. puppet PYD crony-controlled Rojava.

The YPG/YPJ need the U.S. help today to get rid of ISIS, so they are probably fighting further beyond their borders than they would like. They are certainly capable of taking the Turkish corridor militarily, but they personally gain nothing by doing it themselves. They want ISIS cut off, but they don't think they should be doing this alone or at all. It's not their problem to solve.

I would bet the average YPG/YPJ would forgo the 'unified' Rojava thing for now if someone else offered to clean up ISIS in the Turkish Corridor. The U.S. is actively preventing the SAA from doing that, and the U.S. will never permit their FSA 2.0 (NSyA) or their allied head-choppers to do it either. On the other hand, the U.S. is encouraging the PYD to push the YPG/YPJ to close the Turkish Corridor and playing on their hopes of a unified Rojava. It may become easier for the YPG/YPJ as ISIS disintegrates, but then they'll either have to fight al Nusra or the Turkoman FSA for the last stretch between Azaz and Killis. Then there's the matter of holding it afterwards when all the truck bomb attacks start up.

At this point, it looks to me like the U.S. isn't counting on them either way, but is scheming instead to mount some kind of NATO/UN invasion on humanitarian grounds. The aim of the U.S. isn't to give Kurds the Turkish Corridor land - it's just to keep the Turkish Corridor out of Syria's hands by any means possible. In other words, simple land theft. If the Kurds can't or won't do it for the U.S. (or do it fast enough), then the U.S. will just use the U.N. and humanitarian grounds for their land-grabbing schemes.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 23 2016 1:32 utc | 40

I'm perfectly capable of being my own crackpot! So, Miss Penelope, go ahead and defend the status quo with a little modest tweaking. Alas, the US has been nothing except a greedy colonialist nation from the inception. It will take more than tweaking to make any real changes. Real changes are clearly not something you, and others like you, wish to happen ... . Your change, like the 'change we can believe in' is about as radically different as a republican and a democrat. Two faces of the same rotten system pretending that they don't dance to the same piper.

Nothing seems to get through the almost impervious myth that you, and others like you, continue to stand for. The US is exceptional ... as in exceptionally greedy and exceptionally disinterested in such things as truth they either want to deny, or maybe restate.

Once a quadrennial period (coinciding with leap year) interest is not going to have an impact. It is simply going to justify the same old same old. Once, a long time ago, I thought that way. But I am way too long in the tooth to stand pat on what was faith in a deception.

Like I have said over and over and over ... and will say again ... hope does exist. One channel is a nice bloody revolution; another is a bloody invasion; the third is a nuclear holocaust that life (but hopefully not humans) will survive. That will sadly include my two remarkably wonderful grandchildren ... so, now you know ... and will continue to posit (like so many others here at MoA) a delusional belief in tinkering with a rotten to the core system.

Sometimes a fire that destroys a decrepit structure is what is needed to build again. Patching a rotten edifice with good wood, only delays the inevitable collapse. So, patch as you wish ...

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 23 2016 1:38 utc | 41

Is Russia going to sit an watch as everything they gained earlier this year in Syria is wiped out during "ceasefire negotiations?" When are they going to figure out the United States' myrmidons are liars?

Posted by: Rob Centros | Jun 23 2016 1:40 utc | 42

'US arms shipment to Syrian rebels detailed', Jane's Defence Weekly, April, 2016

??? 'Putin plays John Kerry's ventriloquist dummy, calls for imposing 'regime change' on Syria. via @SuchanVladimir'

Posted by: wendy davis | Jun 23 2016 1:56 utc | 43

Re: Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 22, 2016 5:16:45 PM | 14

I tend to agree with the assessment you've provided there.

The big big problem (or at least it should be a BIG BIG PROBLEM) with that plan is that it allows the GCC countries to build their gas/oil pipelines through this Sunni corridor to Turkey & Europe.

Well, obviously it does.

So given that - there is simply no way Russia can allow this to happen.

It's in a way fairly simple really, Russia/Syria/Iran must grab, take and consolidate the "Sunni Triangle" of Palmyra (TICK), Al-Raqqah (NOPE) & Deir-Ezzor (NOT REALLY).

Grab this triangle and defend it properly and you can forget any ideas of an Eastern Syrian "Sunnistan".

Surely that must be the objective while Obama is still in the White House.


Posted by: Julian | Jun 23 2016 1:56 utc | 44

nsnbc : An oil executive at the Central Bank of Iran (CBI) announced that the bank would only receive payments from refineries in India in euro. Seyed Mohsen Ghamsari, the Executive Director for International Affairs at the National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC) dismissed comments made by Indian officials, according to which Tehran was “banning” crude oil sales to refineries in India.
Ghamsari stressed that the Central Bank of Iran (CBI) holds responsibility for the collection of receivables from the sale of Iranian crude oil to refineries, including refineries in India. He added that the CBI decided to stop the sale of Iran’s oil to India in rupee and said that from now on, payments will only be made in euro. The NIOC director also stressed that the NOIC is not in charge of defining the currency that is accepted by Tehran. --

IRAN: Always impressive.

Posted by: Penelope | Jun 23 2016 1:58 utc | 45

rg the lg, "Nothing seems to get through the almost impervious myth that you, and others like you, continue to stand for. The US is exceptional ... as in exceptionally greedy and exceptionally disinterested in such things as truth they either want to deny, or maybe restate."

My goodness, I think you've gone whole-hog into invention. It's the oligarchs' minions like Obama & Kerry who push the "exceptional" propaganda. I doubt that many Americans are foolish enough to believe it. However, many people are too strapped for time to see beyond the MSM.

It's easy for you to condemn them and ascribe every sort of motivation to them. Many of them, like us, simply don't know what to do about it. I personally have opted to put out as much of the truth as possible. YOU seem content merely to spit guilt at people about whom you know nothing. The racist can only find himself superior by putting down other races. Is that your motive in constantly putting down ALL ordinary Americans? It doesn't earn you any stature. You would do better to criticize the actual villains who are killing people and civilizations at home and abroad.

And what was all that tirade about I only want to tweak the status quo? You obviously haven't a single clue about what I want. You just enjoy going into an ecstasy of anger against strawmen of your own invention.

Posted by: Penelope | Jun 23 2016 2:17 utc | 46

Rob Centros@42 - The Russians and Iran are both gearing up with more troops/equipment for a major increase in military action in a few weeks. They never did trust the U.S. - they think we're insane and that we have no coherent strategy for anything. Neither Russia nor Assad stand to lose anything by giving the U.S. this one last shot at... well, whatever it is we're trying to do (even we don't know). Sure, some fresh head-choppers are smuggled in an new arms shipped, but this is meaningless in the long run. Russia can see where these weapons depots are anyways and no doubt has them on target lists. ISIS is crumbling and al Nusra and head-chopper pals have lost their supply lines. They are cornered and Russia/Iran are just biding their time before they go in for the final slaughter.

The U.S. can't send in more troops (Obama's objections and an unwilling U.S. public) and they are not having much luck dragging NATO allies into the quagmire. The U.S. is basically stuck until the new green-scaled slit-eyed warmonger is sworn in as president. That's why they have Kerry running around like a chicken with it's head cut off today trying to find a non-existent diplomatic solution even though the U.S. is not in a position of power to demand anything. The U.N. humanitarian thing I think they're rolling out is really just an act of desperation to delay the inevitable.

Russia is moving slowly and deliberately - they don't need to rush anything. You shouldn't interpret that as a sign of weakness. The U.S. is frantically pulling it's hair out trying to figure out some way to win when they've already lost. That makes the U.S. ten times as dangerous - potentially doing something stupid out of desperation. Russia fully realizes that about the U.S. and is giving them plenty of room to howl and thrash around for now, hoping that they'll eventually give up and go away. If they don't, Russia is willing to do what needs to be done.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 23 2016 2:21 utc | 47

Sadly there's been a big loss for Syria in Raqqa. Looks like that campaign is over and done. Syria is done for

Posted by: bbbb | Jun 23 2016 2:30 utc | 48

bbbb@48 - The 'big loss' was due to ISIS using U.S. intelligence to attack the over-extended, under-manned Syrian forces. It was only a matter of 'when', not 'if'. It's easy for head-choppers to beat back an attack if they know precisely when and where the SAA forces are.

Russia and Syria should have known better. They act like they don't think the U.S. or one of its crony pals are sharing real-time intel with ISIS. The U.S. obviously isn't going to do this if their proxies are fighting ISIS somewhere, but they will do anything to help ISIS kill Russians/Syrians/Iranians - including sharing real-time intelligence.

The second possibility is that these so-called ISIS forces counter-attacking were not even ISIS. It would not be beyond the U.S. to drop a few TOW-equipped SF or NSyA crews off near a Syrian flank and have them take out a dozen vehicles before sneaking away. If you recall, the Brits were caught dressing SAS guys in ISIS 'uniforms' and attacking SAA units a year or two ago. I'm sure that's been going on all throughout the conflict, and doubly so since the U.S./Gulf cronies are on the verge of defeat.

The NSyA guys at al-Tanf were part of the first FSA types that the U.S. trained and equipped with TOW missiles. These were ex-Syrian SF troops and would not fight anywhere near al-Tanf (there's nothing there). The U.S. is not going to waste those assets - I'm sure they did their share of fake-ISIS attacks on SAA in south Syria and just used al-Tanf as a base. Russia seemed to know exactly who these guys were and wanted them dead - Russia never acts 'randomly'.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 23 2016 3:02 utc | 49

You said: "It's the oligarchs' minions like Obama & Kerry who push the "exceptional" propaganda. I doubt that many Americans are foolish enough to believe it."

I believe that most Americans do believe that the US is exceptional ... not just the mouthpieces of the oligarchs. I think, down deep inside, you think that the US is exceptional. Exceptionally what is the question.

You then said: "However, many people are too strapped for time to see beyond the MSM." Really?
I rather suspect that most people are 'too strapped' for time to bother with more than one or another flavor of MSM. They seem to have more than enough time to watch all of the hundreds, if not thousands, of non-MSM channels. They seem to have more than enough time to watch endless sports shows, many of which are redundant, and don't even bother with any of the MSM. Worse, you seem to think that many people actually give a rats ass as to what is happening. I mentioned the situation in Syria the other day at the coffee shop, and one of the guys asked "Why? Syria isn't important." Oh ... I see. Maybe he's right ... maybe we are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Maybe the movement of NATO to the actual border of Russia are not important and merely mole hills.

Or, maybe, just maybe, it is important ... important enough to force the primary trouble maker (the US and those it owns/daunts) out of business. Not that another won't emerge ... but it won't be "my country 'tis of thee" creating most of the mischief while hiding on this side of two oceans.

maybe ... we'll see.

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 23 2016 3:12 utc | 50

Julian@44 - I agree. Russia is just biding its time, though. They still have plenty of time. The Iraqi army (or at least the Iraqi Shia militias) will be on the Iraqi-Syrian border soon. The 'triangle' will be subject to intense, round-the-clock Russian air attacks. Fresh Iranian troops will round out the SAA forces coming from the west.

The one twist I'll throw out there is that it is not necessary for the SAA to actually 'take' anything in the triangle. All they have to do is control all the territory around it. If ISIS or the U.S. proxies do not control a corridor from southern Syria all the way to Turkey, then the partition and 'Sunnistan' are useless for pipelines or anything else.

ISIS has leverage inside urban environments - especially populated ones. But they are sitting ducks in the open desert, especially if Russia brings in more attack choppers and secures an eastern airfield. If ISIS were driven INTO the triangle and denied all the land around it, then the entire U.S. scheme falls apart. It's just a matter of picking the headchoppers off one-by-one. They would no longer be an effective fighting force anywhere besides the cities they were holed up in.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 23 2016 3:20 utc | 51

Some seem to think that I am crazy. Maybe. As a descendant of native Americans, I tend to agree with Andre and his analysis as posted by ICH.

May you all read this and begin to think. What do Americans (the West) want? What do we (Americans, the West) see the rest of the world as? Is Andre right?

I think so ... but while I post this with hope, I am sure there are those who see the article and the writer as irrelevant.

Like I've said before: we shall see.

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 23 2016 3:36 utc | 52

I posted this in an earlier thread, but it belongs in an open thread so I'm copying it here.

The Shanghai Gold Exchange is a game-changing weapon in the war for a multi-polar world as surely as the hypersonic missiles that threaten to rain destruction on the formerly untouchable United States. It answers many riddles, all in one simple clearing of the worry clouds from the sky.

Analysis about this is all over the precious metals world, but I recommend an extremely cogent interview in 2 recent Keiser Reports, Episodes 926 and 927. Max Keiser can be loud, but Stacy Herbert joins the interview, as she often does when it's important, and keeps Max quiet.

Interviewed are Craig Hemke and Andrew Maguire together, both experts in physical gold (as opposed to paper gold). The interview spans the second half of each of the two shows, starting at 12:35 in E.926 and at 12:50 in E.927.

As I posted previously, these were some important takeaways for me from the 30 minute interview:

• The Bank of International Settlements has always treated gold as one of the currencies that it manages. It's a currency, not a commodity.
• The COMEX and US exchanges are purely paper. In London, the LBMA does deliver physical, but only 7 tons out of every 600 traded.
• But Shanghai IS physical. Gold is traded and delivered.
• While the London gold fix is set by people who only deal in paper, the Yuan fix is set by people who must first deposit physical gold.
• So while price discovery is lost in markets flooded with paper derivatives, it actually exists in Shanghai.
• China currently is keeping the price in the same range somewhat as the west (although the upward pressure has begun).
• But as the Yuan fix comes to be the true price of physical gold for a majority of the world, China has a unique position of arbitrage. It can buy gold at the western price, knowing the value is higher back home. It can gradually strip the west of all its physical gold, until either the west has no more, or the west raises the price. This seems decidedly Chinese to me.
• And China is still holding a lot of US dollars. The process of unloading them in exchange for gold need not happen quickly.

I guess the cleared sky for me is to see with utter finality that, despite all the propaganda that we in the west have had to suffer though all our lives, gold matters, and always has. Which is why central banks and the BIS continuously struggle to balance their gold books, and why we need to be lied to about it, and prohibited from owning it at times. Most importantly of all, a historic moment has occurred with the shift of gold to the east, and China's decision to realize a true price for its holdings, as she gathers it all into her banks.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 23 2016 3:41 utc | 53

Well, this is damn inconvenient:

President Obama, Hillary Clinton Knew of Weapons Supplied from Benghazi to Al-Qaeda in Syria

Posted on June 22, 2016 on True Pundit

Finally, there is official confirmation of what has been rumored for years: President Obama, his White House, and Hillary Clinton and her State Department knew that weapons were being shipped from Benghazi to rebel troops in Syria. Those “rebels” were largely al Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood extremist factions, according to corroborating documents.

Below is a gem of an intelligence cable we unearthed from the Defense Intelligence Agency dated September 12, 2012, the day after the Benghazi attack, courtesy of Judicial Watch’s stacks of ongoing FOIA litigation. Absent wholesale redaction, this could prove to be a smoking gun finally exhibiting what the United States was doing in Benghazi prior to the Jihadists attacks on the U.S. consulate and then-secret CIA annex just miles away.

I can't post the scan of the intelligence report - see linked article for the juicy details.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 23 2016 3:42 utc | 54

Since it's an open thread, here's an esoteric aspect of the gold flows for those who like mysteries.

The unkown person called "Another" and his successor, "Friend of Another" - who appeared in the (gold site) Kitco discussion forums around the turn of this century - always maintained that the secret power balance of the world was denoted by holdings of the world's gold. As power shifts, so shifts the gold holdings.

As we've seen gold move to Russia and China at incredibly low prices, as denominated in US Dollars, it's tempting to wonder which happens first - does the power start shifting and the gold follow? As if at each geopolitical turn, like each round of cards by the rulers of the world, settling-up involves a scooping of the pot to one side or another of the table.

I certainly can't answer the question. But no one can doubt that history will show this century to belong to Eurasia, replacing the west, and the gold as having shifted similarly.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 23 2016 3:51 utc | 55
The Looming US War on Russia By Finian Cunningham
June 22, 2016 "Information Clearing House" - "Sputnik" - Russian President Vladimir Putin’s comparison of increasing US-led NATO aggression towards Russia to the attack by Nazi Germany on the Soviet Union is advisedly apt.
Putin was addressing the Russian State Duma this week on the occasion 75 years ago when the Nazi Third Reich launched Operation Barbarossa on June 22, 1941.

Nazi Germany’s aggression, which led to the Great Patriotic War in which up to 30 million Soviet citizens lost their lives in order to gain victory against that fascist power, was at bottom an attack by Western imperialism. As Putin reminded, this fundamental fact is often omitted in Western commentary.

In that way, the significance of NATO’s current military buildup – what else is that but aggression? – on Russian territory is all too often absent in Western media. And, by extension, Western public appreciation is lacking on how sinister the unfolding situation is.
The burgeoning US-led aggression towards Russia – in the form of provocative political campaigns to demonize and vilify with false accusations, economic sanctions and the spurning of diplomacy and dialogue, as well as the expansion of military forces, including the deployment of missile systems – is in a long, reprehensible tradition of Western belligerence towards Russia, going back to, among others, French emperor Napoleon Bonaparte and German Fuhrer Adolf Hitler.
This congenital aggression towards Russia stems from the dynamic of the Western economic system of capitalism, which in turns begets imperialism as its necessary tool for expropriating natural resources and subjugating foreign nations.
The little-known historical record – at least in Western media – is that Nazi Germany was fomented by American and British capitalism as a proxy with which to vanquish the Soviet Union. The subsequent Western alliance with Soviet Russia to defeat Nazi Germany was merely a cynical damage-control move by the Western powers who were witnessing their Nazi attack dog being muzzled and liquidated.
As the US presidential election swings towards Democrat contender Hillary Clinton, that portends ominously for relations with Russia. It was Clinton who as Secretary of State in the first Obama administration in 2009-2013 plunged bilateral relations into the freezer and who set the course for the present geopolitical tensions.
Of further concern is Clinton’s likely
selection to head the Pentagon . It is hotly tipped that Clinton will appoint Michele Flournoy as the first female Secretary of Defense. Flournoy (56) is a prominent Pentagon insider, with close links to the military and CIA. We can be sure that this duo will keenly push a bellicose agenda towards Russia.

Only last week, Flournoy made strident calls for increased US military intervention in Syria. She wants to deploy large numbers of American troops and openly use military force to topple the Syrian government of President Bashar al-Assad.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 23 2016 4:39 utc | 56

Will the Brits cede their sovereignty to EU commissars?
Posted by: ab initio | Jun 22, 2016 7:35:18 PM | 31

That would be the biggest fly in the oinkment for me (in a world run by greedy pigs and bribed apparatchiks).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 23 2016 4:45 utc | 57
Hillary Clinton’s Likely Defense Secretary Wants More US Troops Fighting ISIS and Assad
By Patrick Tucker

June 22, 2016 "Information Clearing House" - "Defense One" - The woman expected to run the Pentagon under Hillary Clinton said she would direct U.S. troops to push President Bashar al-Assad’s forces out of southern Syria and would send more American boots to fight the Islamic State in the region.

Michele Flournoy, formerly the third-ranking civilian in the Pentagon under President Barack Obama, called for “limited military coercion” to help remove Assad from power in Syria, including a “no bombing” zone over parts of Syria held by U.S.-backed rebels.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 23 2016 5:07 utc | 58

This may have posted before:
Israeli Intelligence Chief: We Do Not Want ISIS Defeat In Syria
By News Desk
June 22, 2016 "Information Clearing House" - "Al Masdar News" - Israeli intelligence Chief, Major General Herzi Halevy, said that the last three months have been the most difficult for ISIS since its inception. In a speech delivered at “Herzliya” conference yesterday , Halevy explicitly said “Israel” does not want the situation in Syria to end with the defeat of ISIS “, the Israeli NRG site reported.

“Withdrawal of the super powers from the region and letting Israel alone in front of Hezbollah and Iran that possess good abilities Will make “Israel” in a hard position” Therefore, we’ve to do all we can so as not finding ourselves in such situation”, the Israeli chief intelligence added.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 23 2016 5:12 utc | 59

@58 okie - the article from paveway @54 suggests the same, lol... once a warmonger, always a warmonger..

hey folks - thanks for the many insights and ongoing education here..

@35 propeace.. that was a good opinion piece on brexit..

Posted by: james | Jun 23 2016 5:12 utc | 60

@59 - was posted on al masdar news a few days ago, discussed on sst yesterday or the day before too and linked here a few times, but people often miss shit, so no harm posting again..

Posted by: james | Jun 23 2016 5:14 utc | 61

Grieved | Jun 22, 2016 11:41:44 PM | 53

Thanks for the links; very interesting. The COMEX was outted over a year ago; something like 200 paper oz's. for every physical oz. stored.
Here in S.E. Asia, gold is a genetic part of the culture and they (Asians) would never own paper over the real deal. As time passes it's apparent the world's economy, and economic institutions are corrupt to the core...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Jun 23 2016 7:28 utc | 62

Okie farmer #58, good catch.

When I posted at #2 I hadn't noticed that Flourney statement. It is even worse than I thought. Hillary is for all out war with Russia. It is not going to end well.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 23 2016 7:52 utc | 63


The ZUKs need Syria, and then Lebanon, for their Zionist Leviathan gas pipeline to Ukraine, within the ZUK Super-Corridor into the soft underbelly of Europe, then they'll blow up Iraq and Libya, and go to full battle-rattle with Russia, to spike gas and oil prices in EU to $150 again.

Old Testament AntiChrist Ba'al worshippers don't f'around. Trump-Clinton-Goldman are all-in with US military zupport.

Let's get ready to rumble!

Posted by: Uk Tahder | Jun 23 2016 8:13 utc | 64

I must say I would love Britain to leave the EU. This would help the housing prices in Spain and Scotland (and probably in France too) go back to normal. Plus I want to see the forecasted mayhem: Scotland wants to stain within the EU, the North Irish want to leave it and the South Irish want to remain, so that they have already said that in case the "leave" win, a referendum will be called for with a question on the reunification.
Britain's tax paradises will be happier out of the EU, they'll continue their money laundering elsewhere, export their mercenaries without making it resemble international law, etc. And if they don't want more migrants, let them return to interbreeding.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 23 2016 8:26 utc | 65


"But as the Yuan fix comes to be the true price of physical tungsten for a majority of the world, China has a unique position of arbitrage."

You can buy perfect round tungsten blanks in CHINA for every gold coin ever minted, and Max Keiser is blowing smoke under your skirt with the Yuan 'gold fix', in fact there is no official Chinese statement to any of that.

I'm reminded of "What a Fool Believes" by the Doobie Brothers, and brother, you must have smoked a lot of doobies to be peddling that smack on MoA.

Posted by: Uk Tahder | Jun 23 2016 9:00 utc | 66

@54 pw

Here you go ...


SERIAL:(U) (b)(3)10 USC§424



Shipped to Syria via the Port of Benghazi. Libya

DATE OF INFORMATION: (U) 1 May 2012 - 1 Sep 2012.

CUTOFF: (U) 18 Sep 2012.

(b)(3)10 USC§424, (b)(3)50 USC§3024(i)


TEXT: 1. (S//NF) EXECUTIVE SUMMARY. Weapons from the former Libya
military stockpiles were shipped from the port of Benghazi, Libya to
the Port of Banias and the Port of Borj Islam, Syria. The weapons
shipped during late-August 2012 were Sniper rifles, RPG's, and 125mm
and 155mm howitzers missiles.

2.(S//NF}During Ihe immediate altermath of, and following the
uncertainty caused by, the downfall of the ((Qaddafi)) regime in
October 2011 and up until early September of 2012, weapons from the
former Libya military stockpiles located in Benghazi, Libya were
shipped from the port of Benghazi, Libya to the ports of Banias and
the Port of Borj Islam, Syria. The Syrian ports were chosen due to
the small amount of cargo traffic transiting these two ports. The
ships used to transport the weapons were medium-sized and able to
hold 10 or less shipping containers of cargo. (NFI)

3. (S//NF) The weapons shipped from Libya to Syria during late-August
2012 were Sniper rifles, RPG's, and 125mm and 155mm howitzers
missiles. The numbers for each weapon were estimated to be: 500
Sniper rifles, 100 RPG launchers with 300 total rounds, and
approximately 400 howitzers missiles [200 ea - 125mm and 200ea - 1[55

(b)(1) Sec. 1. 4(c).(b)(3): 10§USC 424,(b)(3):50§USC 3024(i)

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2016 13:05 utc | 67

@49 pw, 'Russia and Syria should have known better.'

On Raqqa ... You mentioned Southfront's analysis ... the SAA overextended. That analysis was made by Southfront weeks - months ago. Southfront is connected to the Russians. The Russians knew better.

I don't know, but I certainly imagine they told the Syrians what they'd learned over a lot of years of victories and defeats. So I further imagine that, in the end, they said ... they're your men and it's your country, and walked away. To let the Syrians learn the hard way. Now the Russians can buck them up, help them pull themselves together again. I personally know that there's nothing like defeat - I know nothing of military defeat or victory, thank goodness - to instill some deep learning, once you've accepted defeat and its causes for what they are.

Compare/contrast the Russians/Syrians with the Americans/Iraqis. Plenty to learn there as well.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2016 13:19 utc | 68

Sanders co authored a bill in the senate about potential terrorist monitoring.
As all humans are potential terrorists,it exposes the mundane and cluttered mind(zionism)of BS.
Another false hope for the small minded.
He'll work with HRC to defeat Trump.What an independent!Trumps message is a hell of lot more amenable to Sanders campaign than the HBs,but whatever.

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 23 2016 15:05 utc | 69

Penelope is quite correct about the past.It is unfixable,and the sum of the past equals the present,which is our only chance at improving,the present.

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 23 2016 16:37 utc | 70

Bernie has not done anything wrong, particularly. (from a certain political point of view) And of course, as Americans, we hold our share of the blame for all of it--that is--the trashing and corruption of our politics But concerning the real dangers, the real context and backstory of our predicament; it happens that the full accounting of our government's depravity is never even brought into the discussion, never aired in public. This is because the laundry is too foul and unspeakably stained. Yes, Bernie's Children's Crusade has finally reached its apotheosis.

However, the regime's furtive, dreadful and mostly secretive business continues on the Dark Side:

Posted by: Copeland | Jun 23 2016 16:43 utc | 71

56;In no way shape or form is the election bending HRCs way.Stop reading serial liars as gospel.
Every day Trumps words resonate with the absolutely disgusted American people.
Only rethugs,demoncrats and Zionists hate him.
Know a man by his enemies.

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 23 2016 16:43 utc | 72

38;Half right.Germany declared war on US,as a member of the tripartite? pact.One of Hiters biggest errors.(2nd only to invading Russia before eliminating GB.)

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 23 2016 16:46 utc | 73

64;I notice a lot of you false flagging Zionists invoking Trump with the HB policies,whats the pay rate?
Trump has no beef with Assad or Russia.

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 23 2016 16:50 utc | 74

%0;What the hell are you talking about?The MSM owns every channel on the cable box,outside of 1?or2?.They wouldn't be on,wo MSM approval.

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 23 2016 16:53 utc | 75

Trump as peacenik? Well hey, it takes one to know one.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 23 2016 18:25 utc | 76

Bernie Sanders: Here's What We Want

Firstly, this "revolutionary" chose to write this in the f'cking WALL STREET JOURNAL!?!?

Secondly, if this is what his supporters want, they are unlikely to get it from Sanders who supports the neolibcon "Third Way"/Sellout Clinton-Obama Party.

Lastly, Sanders has watered down his campaign rhetoric into "demands" are mostly platitudes that Hillary can play lip service to later.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 23 2016 18:44 utc | 77

@ 76

A typo there - Piecenik, a piece of this action, a piece of that action, a piece of every action - soon adds up, especially if one becomes (p)resident of the Whitehouse.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 23 2016 19:57 utc | 78

'Politics is the entertainment division of military industrial complex.' Frank Zappa

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 23 2016 21:14 utc | 79

in re 78 --

Nope, not a typo says this peacenik.

Though Dickhead Donald (not only acts the part but looks it; it's the hair) does want a piece of the oil action.

Trump sees this as just compensation for invading Iraq in the first place. "I say we should take it [Iraq's oil] and pay ourselves back," he said in one 2013 speech....

Trump wants to wage war in the name of explicitly ransacking poorer countries for their natural resources — something that's far more militarily aggressive than anything Clinton has suggested.

This doesn't really track as "hawkishness" for most people, mostly because it's so outlandish. A policy of naked colonialism has been completely unacceptable in American public discourse for decades, so it seems hard to take Trump's proposals as seriously as, say, Clinton's support for intervening more forcefully in Syria.

Yet this is what Trump has been consistently advocating for for years. His position hasn't budged an inch, and he in fact appears to have doubled down on it during this campaign. This seems to be his sincere belief, inasmuch as we can tell when a politician is being sincere.

So let's blow shit up with The Donald! The political system, the economy, the Middle East, the whole bloody world. Let's make America hate again! The apocalypse will be huuuuuuge!

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 24 2016 1:37 utc | 80

@ 80

Get a life. Try linking to humour.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 24 2016 1:57 utc | 81

in re 81 --

If I gotta dumb it down or tart it up for ya, I can do that.

You want funnies? We got funnies!

'Cuz ya know what they say - just a spoonful of sugar....

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 24 2016 5:24 utc | 82

@ 82

Do you have any idea how utterly inane you are when your links are not employed?

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 24 2016 6:04 utc | 83

Ding dong a witch is dead.
Circumstances have changed but he blindly parroted the old maxim.

Posted by: ThatDamnGood | Jun 24 2016 6:13 utc | 84

I am headed to bed but am reading all the hysteria over the BREXIT vote and wondering how the situation will be manipulated by the global plutocrats to their favor.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 24 2016 7:09 utc | 85

in re 77 --

Seems you mean the Washington Post, not the WSJ. Alternet seems to like it.

“What do we want? We want to end the rapid movement that we are currently experiencing toward oligarchic control of our economic and political life,” Sanders concluded. “As Lincoln put it at Gettysburg, we want a government of the people, by the people and for the people. That is what we want, and that is what we will continue fighting for.”

in re 83 --

What does that even mean, "links not employed"?

This might not be very funny, but it did bring a smile to my face - Why Trump Is Faltering Since He Locked Up Nomination.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 24 2016 12:02 utc | 86

Now this is funny. Ukraine names new price: Russia must both "return Crimea and pay 3 trillion".

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 24 2016 12:05 utc | 87

66;Those who smoke a lot of doobies seem much more in touch with reality than those who don't.:)

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 24 2016 13:50 utc | 88

86;They always say old commies are Zionists at heart.

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 24 2016 13:52 utc | 89

Apologies if this has been noted here, but I haven't had time to go though all the comments.

A US federal court has declared that a home computer, inside one's residence, is not protected by the 4th Amendments guarantee of the necessity of a search warrant. "According to the court, the federal government does not need a warrant to hack into an individual's computer."

This from a court in Virginia, where it seems the Constitution isn't worth the paper it was printed on.

Posted by: jawbone | Jun 24 2016 20:20 utc | 90

News that Obama has been thinking about owning an NBA team.

Hhhmm. I didn't think someone on the president's salary could even consider such a purchase.

Maybe it'll a gift form some grateful Dot Zero One Percenter.

Posted by: jawbone | Jun 24 2016 20:40 utc | 91

Now I understand why the SAA offensive stopped:

The Syrian army withdraws in the face of chemical weapons

In the province of Rakka, while the Syrian Arab army was advancing and liberating villages held by Daesh and its allies, the enemy has used sarin gas, or more precisely its most dangerous version: VX gas.

The Syrian army was forced to withdraw.

To protect Qatari supporters, Saudi and Turkish jihadists, the Atlanticist propaganda assures that Syrian forces are exhausted by years of war.

Posted by: ProPeace | Jun 24 2016 20:40 utc | 92

in re 1

See this set of data, from Real Clear Politics. Various other polls that exclude Stein have Johnson at 10 or 11 pct.

released 6.23
scope ----------------- pollster ------- results
General Election ------ Reuters/Ipsos -- Clinton 43, Trump 34, Johnson 6, Stein 5
North Carolina ------- PPP (D) -------- Trump 43, Clinton 43, Johnson 4, Stein 2

released 6.21
Pennsylvania ---------- Quinnipiac ---- Clinton 39, Trump 36, Johnson 9, Stein 4
Ohio ------------------ Quinnipiac ---- Clinton 38, Trump 36, Johnson 8, Stein 3
Florida --------------- Quinnipiac ---- Clinton 42, Trump 36, Johnson 7, Stein 3

released 6.20
General Election ------ Monmouth ----- Clinton 44, Trump 37, Johnson 9, Stein 4

released 6.16
General Election ------ Reuters/Ipsos -- Clinton 39, Trump 29, Johnson 6, Stein 4

Personally, I thought that regular appearances on the alt-media, such as Democracy Now, and having shills like Lindorff talk up the Greens as an option qualified as campaigning.

Oh, and little things like appearing at campaign rallies for local candidates. To say nothing of protests

Sanders will not gift his operation to the Greens. They have been pleading with him since 2011 to hook up, Stein told Democracy Now. But he has yet to return their calls, they're not holding their breath. I see the headlines that he anticipates voting for Mrs. Clinton. But Mrs. M, active in the local Sanderista partkom, tells me that there is as of yet no suggestion to the aktiv that they should necessarily do likewise.

And no wonder they want Sanders on their team, as the Greens are hemorrhaging voters in California.

Well, that and they're not that attractive politically.

David Weigel from WaPo, writing at Slate, examined The Pathetic Failure of Green Party Candidate Jill Stein in 2012. He particularly examines the vote in Massachusetts, where Stein had previously stood for governor and US Senate.

In Massachusetts, Stein ran fourth, with fewer than 20,000 votes, even though every Democrat in the state realized he could cast a spoiler vote if he wanted to.

The Greens have not bested what Nader got for them in 2000, have not bested even Nader's worst numbers, and Stein has gotten less votes than Cobb did in 2004, head to head against Nader (Cobb 120K, Nader 465K). In 2012, I would note, they failed to beat the Libertarians in any state (though the came within 0.2 pct, 1.3 to 1.1, in Oregon).

Weigel nails the problem with the Greens in his analysis of Steins pathetic 2012 electoral performance. The strength of the anti-Obama left overall was overstated. He found their "Green New Deal" platform ill-advised, arguing that the Manning revelations had driven activists from energy issues. But I think his characterization of them “dilettante white leftists with no real interest in or ability to organize beyond their affinity group” pretty much sums them up.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 25 2016 12:47 utc | 93

The notion of Sanders as some sort of adjunct to the DNC is taken from Bruce Dixon, who offers no evidence of any actual collusion. Just a pattern of working stiffs hoping that someone can do something in the here-and-now to improve their lives. And how odd that they expect a party actually on the ballot with a history of such achievements to deliver.

Granted, only once us proles get mad and get organized. As always.

One should note, Dixon has his own plans for the Greens, whom he criticizes as poorly organized, and so would not be a disinterested critic. "The model of the Green Party up till now has been with a low level of participation of members and not even defining members, and we’re gonna break away from that." He wants a mass, dues-paying membership, and more formal accountability. I wonder -- is Stein one of those "self-selected groups of people, not... responsible to a definable membership" he seeks to displace?

Sanders and his cadre look to be stirring it up. Were he to be on the take, I think our democratic socialist has over-fulfilled the DNC’s Five Year Plan for this work. Yeah, they wanted to make socialism respectable, what with Obama being a Kenyan Mau Mau and all that. But too much, too soon....

And were I in the market for a herder, there were any number of more suitable hounds in the DNC kennel. You would want either an known, reliable quantity, or a hungry but ambitious journeyman, controlled by promises of his/her future prospects. Bill Richardson, for example, has substantial foreign and domestic credentials. I think O'Malley coulda done the job as well, but for his connections to the Baltimore police post-Freddie Gray. My old mayor, Micheal Capuano, is now a Mass. Congressman, he might have worked too.

Assuming, of course, some nefarious plot, and not the normal factional and personal agendas in any broad, mass party.

This post at Countepunch takes on the “dog” analogy, arguing that “Sanders is not just a 'lesser evil'. His proposals and policies are good In addition, Sanders seeks to change the current electoral process based on money coming from corporations, political action committees and wealthy individuals. Changing this system is the first step....”

There are any number of arguments that Sanders has changed and will continue to change the political dyanmics. More and in a different direction might be nice. But after decades of neo-liberal assaults on the working class, let's not have the best be the enemy of the good.

Former Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis holds that:

Sanders’ meteoric rise is evidence that unabashed progressive politics is an effective antidote to the far-right xenophobia on the rise across the developed world.

“Every time we have a spasm of capitalism, whether this is the 1930s or now, the seeds of vulgar ultra-right-wingness sprout into a very ugly tree,” Varoufakis said....

“I am very impressed by his capacity to rise from almost complete marginality to the center of the debate,” Varoufakis continued. “And if you look at the discussion he has invigorated, or reinvigorated, in the Democratic Party, that just goes to show that it is perfectly possible to excite young people....

Yeah, he botched with Syriza in Greece. But he was principled enough to resign and move on politically. I don't know with what sort of success his proposed organization met.

Alternet offers a handy list of things Sanders has already changed about American politics. I particulary note points 5 and 6, on princples and issues, but the author notes he has brought progressives together, shown popularly-funded campaigns to be viable, and made socialism respectable. "Not too shabby."

Politics isn’t for the meek, but it doesn’t have to be all mud all the time like the GOP’s nominating contest, and Sanders has shown that in state after state....

The passion and public purpose of his campaign has struck deep and wide notes precisely because of that. More than anything, Sanders has reminded vast swaths of the country that his democratic socialist agenda is exactly what they want America to be—a fairer and more dignified, tolerant, responsible and conscientious country.

I have previously noted, the consensus amongst the pundit class is that Sanders is a principled politician. The conduct of his campaign reflects these principles. I do not agree with them, but I respect that he has been consistent in their application throughout his political career.

Ah, but "what is to be done" with all of the passion aroused? Sanders clearly intends to keep the pressure on within the Democratic Party. Though doubtless, it will not all remain there.

I keep hearing that "things" are different, post-Occupy, etc., and that some sort of Green/Libertarian/Trump miracle is possible. It is also possible, and historically conditioned, that these pressures will in fact push the Democrats to the left.

This would be good, in and for the short-term. Revolutionary change takes patient work, especially in early stages. We're quite a "Long March" away, and these are useful baby-steps.

So this whole notion that but the hopes of the masses and left wing of the Democratic Party, we'd have our Utopia by now, us a cheap alibi as to why the divided left (as “b” very accurately describes) can’t make any headway, even after the economy nearly repeated the Great Depression.

The nerve of those damn proles, hoping for short-term improvement! What about the intersectionality?

You know, I don't think “Suck it up and butch it out ‘til after The Revolution, you ignorant, evil, unenlightened over-privileged sell-outs” is really that attractive as politics. Maybe that overstates this argument, but probably not too much. "The Greens know that someone is in the buff but the Sanders gang has yet to catch on that their emperor has no clothes" does strike a rather condescending tone, sure to win friends and influence people.

Somewhat at odds with the next paragraph, though. But is topic is the "Green Machine."

Second, and more importantly, Marsh has left out a key point in his analysis. The Greens just passed a major benchmark to gain federal funding.

Is that lime Kool-Aid then?

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 25 2016 13:11 utc | 94

in re 89 --

They say old jew-haters are new Trump voters.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 25 2016 13:12 utc | 95

rm @ 93-94: Good synopsis,kudos.

Posted by: ben | Jun 25 2016 13:28 utc | 96

rufus @93-4

LOL! Don't hurt yourself.

Your dismissing of 'collusion' for lack of a smoking gun ignores much circumstantial evidence:

> Sanders has been a Democrat for many years in all but name;
- he has an arrangement with the Democratic Party whereby he runs in Vermont Democratic Primaries but will not accept the Democratic nomination and the Democratic Party will not fund candidates that oppose him;

- Obama campaigned for him, Schumer and Reid endorsed him, he calls Hillary "a friend", etc.

> He pulled punches in his campaign - refusing to attack Hillary or Obama on issues that could've made a big difference for his campaign, like:

- when Hillary defended taking money by pointing to Obama who has clearly been pro-Wall Street;

- Obama's record on the economy and black issues (Obama's support has helped Hillary to win over blacks);

- his slowness to criticize Hillary-DNC collusion;

- on Hillary's emails after the State Dept IG report;

- he all but endorsed Hillary from the start.

The November election will be a referendum on the neolibcon establishment in the U.S. as much as the Brexit vote was for the EU. The Brexit vote showed that people are so fed up that they aren't listening to establishment fear-mongering.

No matter how Democratic Party loyalists try to spin it, the blame for a Trump win will fall on the corrupt Democratic Party establishment. It is no accident that the vast majority of Super-delegates have steadfastly stood by Hillary, warts and all.

Bernie the sheepdog has failed his movement but the Greens and true progressives will continue. Here is what Kasama Sawant has to say at Counterpunch today:

If Bernie refuses to break from the Democratic Party, our movement should back Jill Stein as the strongest left alternative in the presidential election ... Stein deserves the strongest possible support from Sandernistas.... With Bernie stepping out of the race, and likely endorsing Clinton, it will be up to us to continue the political revolution and to stand up against both Clintonism and Trumpism.
And drives home the point with:
It says a great deal about both Warren and the Democratic Party, in which she is the most high-profile “left” politician, that she never endorsed Bernie and has now enthusiastically endorsed Hillary. It would not be a stretch to say that had Warren endorsed and campaigned for Sanders, it could well have been the difference needed to defeat Clinton in the primary. But she did not.

It says a great deal about the whole of the Democratic Party leadership – which claims that its key priority is to defeat Trump – that it has fiercely backed Clinton in spite of the fact that the polls have shown Sanders to be the far stronger candidate in every matchup.

Because of course the problem is much larger than just Warren, Clinton, or Debbie Wasserman Schultz. At the heart of the matter is a political party that is thoroughly undemocratic and corrupt to its very core – one that answers to Wall Street, not working people. It’s the second most pro-capitalist party in the world, after the Republican Party.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

@86 Yes it is the Washington Post, but the point stands: it is a strange place for a 'revolutionary' to deliver his message. Unless that message is one of capitulation (it is).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 25 2016 15:00 utc | 97

facists reunited.

unitedsnake orchestrated the 1965 genocide on chinese indons,
[later clinton called suharto the executioner 'our kind of guy' .]
then instigated the 1989 pogrom [including mass rapes of chinese girls].

once again unitedsnake has roped in its facists buddies in jakarta for another 'open season'
on chinese people.

Posted by: denk | Jun 25 2016 15:04 utc | 98

I didn't break a sweat.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 25 2016 15:05 utc | 99

Ben at 96 --

Thanks! Some of Mrs. M's partkom comrades are already active in their township and county committees, though I think she's had her fill of the Democrats. They're continuing to meet locally. "All politics is local." And all political machines, too. "Don't mourn, organize!"

in re 97 --

I don't get. Folks complain Sanders doesn't get MSM props. But when he appears, he's some sort of sell out.

So what sort of revolutionary writes for the WaPo? One that want's to reach and perhaps persuade a lot of intelligent and politically-involved people, perhaps? Or maybe the sort of man that reads Playboy.

While I have long stated my hope that other, more revolutionary parties will derive more benefit in the long term, it is clear that much of the Sandersista mobilization will stay with the Democrats. This is for structural reasons inherent in human psychology and the peculiarities of American electoral politics. This cannot be wished away.

These hopeful mass blue collar numbers will not be won over by faux moral superiority delivered via patronizing seminar-grade sophistry. With the ongoing "lumpenization" of all forms of employment, courtesy of Silicon Valley's "disruptive" gig economy, we're all blue collar.

"We share your goals, what can we do to help you force the changes we both want?" And when you prove an effective and superior ally, tactician, and strategist, then you get defections.

If other reformists like Sawant want their own party, more power to them. Their social-democratic politics, like Sanders, are perfectly compatible with late industrial capitalism. Another step forward on "The Long March."

"Not building a wall, but making a brick." B. Eno.

Your circumstantial case, like Dixon's, is weak. Right up there with you guy's party-building skills.

I do not see Stein getting enough votes to push the election to Trump (the disaster would be HUUUUGE!). The Libertarians, possibly, but they would be more likely to pull from The Dickhead Donald. The left-liberal vote will head the pronouncements of St. Noam of Cambridge; Trump is a danger to the planet.

I hate it when Chomsky is right; his reformist politics undercuts his radical analysis.

In Stein, you have a weak candidate for a weak and disorganized party with a poor message. Nothing will come of it.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 25 2016 16:43 utc | 100

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