Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 13, 2016

A Few More Questions About The Orlando Massacre

Some additional bits about the NYPD fan who allegedly killed some 50 people in Orlando are coming to light.

The father of the guy who is an immigrant from Afghanistan was a bit of a loon himself. He damned Pakistan and Afghan politicians over the Durand line. He put himself forward as a candidate for the Afghan presidency even when no election was in sight.

His son, the killer, was known to the FBI as a loon. He hated black, gays, Jews etc and had claimed affinity to the Boston bomber, Al-Qaeda, Hizbullah and the Islamic State - three groups which hate each other. He was not known to have any contact to any of these groups.

The Islamic State took the obvious step of adopting the shooter. The claim of IS responsibility did not come from the core organization but from its "news" agency which cited "sources". The IS folks are unlikely to have known of his existence until they heard the news. For them it is just good propaganda to claim a relation.

The various politicians use the case as they use any case. They propagandize their favorite policies and whatever facts of the case do not fit those policies are simply shoved aside. One can only ignore them and hope that over time sanity will prevail.

There are open questions I have yet to find answered:

Any big event in these days produces dozens of videos. Some people inside the club must have filmed whatever happened. Will we ever see those clips?

How does one guy in a club full of men manages to shoot 50+ and wound another 50+ without getting overwhelmed? He needed to change ammunition clips several times. The ideal time to attack him. Where there no three strong guys around in the club to jump him?

Was it really only one shooter? Those are a lot of casualties for one sole loon to cause.

It will take weeks until a more or less solid picture of the incident can be painted. There will of course be lots of speculations about false flag attacks and the like, including here in the comments. I do not see any evidence for such. The FBI had him on its radar?

Well, there are some 600,000 people on the U.S. no-fly-list. Hardly any of them is a "terrorists". The FBI has even more under on and off surveillance. Its haystack is too big to find the real needles. They thought he as a loon and not a danger. They were right with the loon part.

Posted by b on June 13, 2016 at 18:20 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Posted by: Mina | Jun 14, 2016 3:25:57 PM | 100

He does not seem to have had any weapon. Partner of the police officer got strangled?

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14 2016 19:59 utc | 101

About being blackmailed and pushed into corners by the powerful, i have no doubt it exists!
True in France, as you say. The French are very racist, but still they provide social housing for immigrants, and a French passport is not difficult to obtain. It's going further that is difficult.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 14 2016 20:03 utc | 102

@ bored muslim | Jun 14, 2016 3:07:57 PM | 97

Am saddened to see your reply to ignorance disappear, that was an impressive aggregation of historical information I had not encountered prior. I was aware of some parts of that historical record and found your report accurate in those parts I was familiar. I think it should be pointed out that the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church held Jews responsible for the crucifixion of Christ and all too often the Jewish community, by its isolation, became the convenient 'other', the 'them' on which whatever stress being experienced was blamed; after all, it is always somebody else's fault, never ones own. Add to that the emergence of ducal and princely power during the middle ages, followed by the emergence of the great kingdom state leading to the modern era with the reconquest of the Iberian peninsula in 1492. What is retained thereafter is mostly habitual, set in stone, belief based prejudices which redirected stresses experienced by various empowered interests. It is indeed a very ugly history that is not spoken about much - but needs to be. At least I know there exists some aggregate summary of that experience - thanks.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 14 2016 20:06 utc | 103

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2016 3:59:48 PM | 103

Found it. He used a knife.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14 2016 20:16 utc | 104

Re Noirette

Funding, the schoolbooks, the teachings, etc.

What about US/EU education infiltrating Saudi Arabia and the financial gains, aka scams, and high-jinks associated with that?

Do you really mean, Noirette, that you're not aware of the big Saudi push, for forty years now, to impose Saudi Wahhabism as the real version of Islam?

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 14 2016 20:35 utc | 105

ruralito at 12,

In late September, early October "Oswald" supposedly went to Mexico City. I use Oswald in quotes because it seems like there were at least two definite Oswalds, plus others who used the cover.

A man using the name "Lee Harvey Oswald", who was not LHO (the CIA took pictures of the people coming and going), went to the Cuban consulate and the Soviet embassy in Mexico City. Oswald had files at the CIA and the FBI. So what did the FBI do when it got word that "Oswald" was in Mexico City? They took him OFF the watch list, that's what, just like the FBI took the Orlando shooter off the list.

Also, in parallel to the Boston bombing, the Orlando shooter has a relative with a long-time history with the CIA. His dad has a CIA-backed cable show on satellite in Afghanistan. The Boston Bombers' uncle, Ruslan, ran a Chechen aid program (this was in the 90s, when Chechen rebels, filled with the Wahhabi spirit, were blowing up schools and subways) out of his father-in-law's address. Father-in-law was Graham Fuller, an old CIA hand who is credited with coming up with the idea for Iran-contra.

The older Boston bomber was connected to the Jamestown Foundation (Institute?) which is CIA and the younger brother was being tutored by a professor at his college who was also connected with the CIA.

Not only does the CIA make news, it controls enough of the media to make sure what should and should not be reported is sorted out, and the echo chambers tell us what to believe about it.

At a certain point one stops relying on the excuse of coincidence.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Jun 14 2016 20:43 utc | 106

The point of this thread is what tips over a Muslim, not very stable, into a suicidal attack.

A: the FBI (or some other such organization, but probably them in this case, or the CIA occupied FBI).

Posted by: RudyM | Jun 14 2016 20:46 utc | 107

Some suggestive evidence (probably posted by now):

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/06/confirmed-fbi-introduced-florida-shooter-to-informants.html

Posted by: RudyM | Jun 14 2016 20:48 utc | 108

Orlando Shooter Was Reportedly a Regular at Pulse and Had a Profile on Gay Dating App

“He’s been going to this bar for at least three years.”

at least four clubgoers who remembered seeing Mateen at Pulse at least a dozen times.

http://gawker.com/orlando-shooter-was-reportedly-a-regular-at-pulse-and-h-1781920316

his daddy was part of operation cyclone
sonny mateen a queer sort worked for zion wakenhut g4s cia torture inc.
this story is kind a weird not in a muslim kind of way i would say more babylon talmud

ORLANDO SHOOTING DAD A LONGTIME CIA ASSET

http://www.madcowprod.com/2016/06/13/orlando-shooter-dad-longtime-cia-asset/

but keep talking islam you naughty assets

Posted by: charles drake | Jun 14 2016 21:09 utc | 109

Bob in Portland @ 108, Thank you for being well-informed.

I would like to add that the security company that the "shooter" is said to have worked for for almost 9 years, G4S, bought Wackenhut. Wackenhut, by all reports, continued its CIA-like behavior and its guard-for-the federal-govt contracts. G4S has just announced that i's being sold to an unnamed company.

"plans to launch new strategic divisions next quarter, including national security protection, base operations support and training and fleet maintenance and construction services. G4S GS's current customers include the departments of Defense, State, Homeland Security, and Justice, as well as other federal, state and local agencies. It also works with commercial clients across the globe."

Bob, I think you would appreciate another dimension of San Bernardino. LiftTheVeil411 has put out 14 very brief videos on it. Here is one that gives you the flavor of an entirely different motive than gun control. http://lifttheveil411.com/san-bernardino-hoax-location-motive-episode-2

Posted by: Penelope | Jun 15 2016 0:41 utc | 110

for penny and her zion friend lift the veil.
what company you keep ms oded yinon


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz9oMCzEMHo

Posted by: charles drake | Jun 15 2016 1:30 utc | 111

in re 67

It's called a "weapon of war" because that's what it is. If you're in the market, don't go with this piece of trash, get yourself a nice Czech Kalashnikov. Or the classic M1 Garand.

"The AR-15 is a military and civilian rifle that has been produced in many different versions. The term AR-15 was chosen by Colt for the civilian models it produced after selling the rifle to the U.S. military as the M16 rifle, and many people and references use the term AR-15 exclusively for civilian models. This article discusses the original design for military users and its major variants, however they are labeled. AR-15 rifles are lightweight, gas-operated, magazine-fed, air-cooled, fire an intermediate cartridge, and are manufactured with extensive use of aluminum alloys and synthetic materials."

No doubt all of the other operational and technical expertise deployed here is of a similar caliber and equally on target.

One reason why he overcame security -- inserting shots into music, by artists or DJ's, is apparently common on modern dance music; see this popular track by MIA. Love that synth vamp. "Yeah, I got more records than the KGB/So, uh, no funny business." The first few shots folks thought were part of the jams.

Add to that, as Bill Hicks noted at 42, the surprise and confusion after an evening of partying. You take out security right off, and then plenty of targets of opportunity. Throw in the fact that the guy was regular at the bar. He's a familiar face and very familiar with the terrain. So he's got an added element of surprise, and has good intel from his recce.

I find it... odd. No terrorist attack anywhere is ever actually the work of organizations or ideologies known for a predilection to violence, or of "lone wolves" of questionable psyches. No, clearly, it is the work of "The Usual Suspects" from the fevered ranks of "The Deep, Dark State" as it races to fix tyranny upon us. 'Cause they're in Complete Control.

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 15 2016 2:05 utc | 112

114
rufus stuffus put down the tel aviv crack pipe sir and put your greasy hands up.

i kid you not rufus
you cannot kid a kidder.

Orlando Shooting for Dummies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wP_GsMvG80

Posted by: charles drake | Jun 15 2016 2:44 utc | 113

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3639961/Orlando-terrorist-went-gay-club-Pulse-dozen-times-got-drunk-belligerent-talked-wife-kid-massacring-49-people-there.html
&
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/os-orlando-nightclub-omar-mateen-profile-20160613-story.html

1) Ex-wife said he was closeted gay & that his religious father(while hiding it publically) used to call him gay & denigrate him in front of her, his police academy classmates also said he was a closeted gay who went to gay bars together & he asked 1 of them out (the friend refused his offer) & he frequently used gay dating app

2) http://www.rockprophecy.com/herdthin.html -scientific evidence from science experiments & studies on animals & humans humans show homo/bisexuality is caused by too
much of the hormone
androstenedione (a "weaker version" of testosterone)
secreted
by
the mother during pregnancy when the mother is under severe or chronic stress
(such as starvation, , dehydration, constantly shaking the cages of the animals, etc in animal studies or living in warzones in human studies).

Under such prenatal chronic or severe conditions, higher rates of the animal offspring that were born became homosexual, seeking to mate with members of the same sex whereas in human studies of people born in warzones during WW2 & Vietnam War, higher rates of homosexaulity/bisexuality was found.

All fetuses start off as female but testosterone causes the fetus to develop into a male instead of remaining female.

Androstenedione disrupts that process, replacing & displacing some of the testosterone in male fetuses, causing the fetal brain to remain partially female in the area of the brain responsible for mating
while
the secretion of too much androstenedione causes partial masculinization of the
female fetal brain (which should have none or minimal levels of androstenedione/testosterone) in that part of the brain responsible for mating.

3) From confessions & psych studies, it's common that such people who are closeted gay but conflicted due to religious beliefs become tormented
&
commit suicide or murder-suicide

4) They overcompensate for their torment by being publically very anti-gay to throw off suspicion,
which
is why you see many cases of anti-gay politicans & pastors/priests getting caught
having or seeking sex gay sex
(ie, Larry Craig, Ted Haggard, Hagee, the Catholic priest scandals, etc)
http://www.advocate.com/politics/politicians/2015/05/29/16-antigay-leaders-exposed-gay-or-bi

5) See country music celebrity confession of this as she came out as lesbian after she
put a
gun in her mouth due to her suicidal torment of being unable to accept her being homosexual in her deeply religious social circle where
she was vehemently anti-gay publically so that others wouldn't think that she was homosexual:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karen-ocamb/country-star-chely-wright_b_565302.html

6) If those certain religions were less anti-gay & more accepting instead of causing suicidal torment & self-hate over being homosexual/bi, it would reduce such torment & murder-suicides

Posted by: Jiu Jitsu | Jun 15 2016 4:43 utc | 114

in re 115 --

You were much more erudite back in your first appearance. If it is Lord Charles....

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 15 2016 6:03 utc | 115

The casualty question is easily answered. There were several hundred (up to 800, I think) people in the club at the time. When you have that many people in a confined space and there is any panic - from a fire, or smoke, or in this case gunshots - trampling casualties inevitably result. I would imagine the final report, should that be made public, would give a detailed breakdown.

The "three strong guys" question is incredibly misinformed. One, witness accounts suggest that it was so "loud" that a number of people did not realize what was happening until after many gunshots. The confusion was increased once a police officer (at least one) already at the club opened fire as well. Two, the crowd, as I understand it, was flowing away from the shooter. Good luck fighting through a couple of hundred panicking people in a dark and confined space to show off how much of a Rambo you are.

Three, the natural instinct when someone points a gun at you is not to proclaim "I am Rambo and there are twenty of us and only one of him" - it is to panic and either run or take cover, because your individual self is about to be extinguished. You can train to overcome this instinct, or sometimes you can just be very brave, but on average and off the top of my head I can think of exactly one mass shooting out of the past 10-15 we've had where non-professionals engaged the shooter (the Kip Kinkel incident - which was in a relatively open cafeteria and not inside a packed club, by the way). And that sounds as a roughly appropriate ratio.

Finally, as for the inside-the-club videos - I don't think I much care. I would rather people focused on the fact that this is yet another blowback, in a way, from Afghanistan I, the one where the Taliban and their ilk were the "good guys". Because guess, just guess, what kind of an Afghan would have been able to go to the U.S. from "socialist" Afghanistan in the 1980s, and what kinds of things they might teach their children. To wit, what was that about the father being a bit of a loon?

Posted by: Angry Panda | Jun 15 2016 14:01 utc | 116

Salafis and wahabism? are the natural reactions of people under threat by outside forces.The retreat to the mattress of religion.
They will dissipate once we leave the region to its own devices,and make the Zionists make a peace to believe in.
Assange says Wikileaks will release enough to get the HB indicted!Go for it!

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 15 2016 14:48 utc | 117

Cryptogon dot com has been under attack since updating his thread on Mateen and his employer, G4S aka Wackenhut Securities (sp?).

It appears Mateen changed his name in 2006 from Omar Mir Seddique to Omar Mir Seddique Mateen. There was a case in Florida where a David Mahmood Siddiqui was an FBI informant -

"Why is that important? Why is his original last name, Seddique, also spelled Siddiqui, significant? Because of a previous terrorism case in Florida, in which the FBI informant’s name was Siddiqui."

A journalist from the New Yorker did an exceptional write up on the case (embed in link below) where the so-called 'terrorist' talks about this FBI informant.

It's becoming more plausible that Mateen, like Tamerlan Tsarnaev, had more than a passing relationship with the FBI.

Jon Rappaport elaborates on these details - https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2016/06/13/orlando-shooter-deeper-hidden-ties-to-the-fbi/

Posted by: h | Jun 15 2016 16:11 utc | 118

The official account, as it currently stands, makes no sense. It is claimed that after the "shootout" with the club's security shortly after 2 AM, and after spraying the club with bullets, the alleged killer retreated into a washroom with 15-20 hostages, and there was an ensuing standoff which lasted almost 3 hours. Then the SWAT team attacked - through the concrete exterior wall! The official account claims that after creating a breach in the concrete wall "dozens of persons" were able to escape.

The obvious question: if the alleged shooter had retreated to a washroom with hostages, why didn't the police simply set up inside the club? Why would they have to break down the exterior wall? Weren't there over 50 wounded persons in the club? Were they not assisted at all during the three hour standoff? Were people left to bleed out? How did "dozens" of people escape through the breech in the concrete wall at 5 AM, when it seems like they could have walked out of the club long before, after the alleged gunman retreated to the washroom? Why aren't the press asking the obvious questions?

Posted by: jayc | Jun 15 2016 18:55 utc | 119

Extra doctors were called in to hospital to treat the wounded. According to one doctor's discussion with another doctor with whom I am acquainted, entry wounds were one and a half inches or more in diameter and the exit wounds were up to 4 inches in diameter. Many victims had been shot in the back as they attempted to escape the shooter who was standing in the exit path.

One victim was given 40 pints of blood, but could not be saved due to massive internal bleeding probably coming from aortic artery.

I am skeptical of any so-called terrorist incident and I was initially skeptical of this one. Having heard the account of the doctor and others who had friends at the club who were shot, there is little doubt that gunfire did occur. It is probable that the alleged shooter did at least some of the shooting.

Still, the behavior and the monologue of the crying mother who did not shed a single tear, on tv is very suspicious.

That the police broke down a concrete wall with a paramilitary weapon is also suspect.
That the perp and his father are/were deeply enmeshed in the MIC, security, surveillance FBI, CIA, police state apparatus is also suspect.

G4S is "clever" (corny) word play which indicates G Force.

Posted by: fast freddy | Jun 15 2016 20:14 utc | 120


While the noise, confusion and mayhem make sense I also think the "where were the three strong men" question is worth addressing simply because fitness/self-defense/bodybuilding (and steroids) is so huge a part of the contemporary gay community of exactly the age group that also haunts the clubs. Beyond all doubt there were far more than three strong men present, the story makes little sense to me I have
to think it was a planned operation with a patsy (like always) and a professional clean up and press roll out all prepared and ready. Seems hugely successful too.

Posted by: mad1 | Jun 15 2016 23:49 utc | 121

a whack job identifying closely with a bastardized religion can cause a lot of trouble, regardless of the whackjob religion they identify with.. the religion de jour at present is wahabbism/salafism - the ice cream of ISIS..

Posted by: james

wow james is on a mission not interested in g4s israeli security or rita katz or the 3 years drinking booze and gay hook up at the very same club.
it is almost like you have a meme script that you have to stick 2

hasbara sayanim like do not want to offend as you seem to have the power to evict and delete comments.
everyone should chill it holly wood land casting of spells and myths


Orlando Shooting HOAX put to the Sword.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lknq40WW9iU

Posted by: fats domino | Jun 16 2016 1:52 utc | 122

@122 fats, charles drake - trolls.. whatever...

Posted by: james | Jun 16 2016 2:09 utc | 123

btw - are you the same fats domino retard from syrian perspective always rooting for murder and mayhem in syria? same name...that shows a lot of disrespect for the person fats domino too..

Posted by: james | Jun 16 2016 2:19 utc | 124

Media push for release of 911 tapes

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 16 2016 5:07 utc | 125

posted last night at ZH

New Orlando Shooter Eyewitness Emerges: Testifies That 5 People Were Involved In Pulse Attack

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-15/new-orlando-shooter-eyewitness-emergestestifies-5-people-were-involved-pulse-attack

Posted by: mad1 | Jun 16 2016 12:36 utc | 126

Well, they won't release the 911 tapes (see @125) but now - DAYS later - add that Omar Mateen posted his allegiance to ISIS via Facebook during his attack.

They really, really want us to know that he "pledged" to ISIS but we still have no hard evidence that this is true.

Q: Why didn't one of his Facebook friends bring the Facebook "pledge" to the attention of the media soon after the attack?
How many Facebook friends did he have? Was the Facebook account suspended/removed? When?

Q: Why didn't he post photos of the nightclub carnage to his Facebook?
I just saw a description of the Facebook pledge on a MSM cable news channel which quoted what he wrote but didn't mention any photos?!? Posting photos would be consistent with his 'laughing' while killing and his anger at the West.

Q: Why so many pledges? (911; TV station; Facebook; negotiators)
And, if he was sooo concerned about ensuring that his 'pledge' was known, why didn't he take steps beforehand - like sending a letter(s)/video(s) to news organization(s)? After all, they say he was trying to buy body armor weeks in advance of the attack.

Q: Why did he call 911 twice without saying anything?
Why did he 'pledge' via 911 only when the 911 operator called him back? What is the timeline of the calls?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 16 2016 17:50 utc | 127

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 16, 2016 1:50:40 PM | 127

The politics are clear: Attack by powerful ISIS - support wingnut Republicans
Gay self hate - fear wingnut Fundamentalists including wingnut Republicans

The guy sounds far from stupid - here he is in a documentary on the deep water oil spill

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16 2016 18:11 utc | 128

somebody @128

Review of salient facts.

1. A suspicous timeline

2006: USA + Israel support Saudi Arabia's use of extremists as a weapon.

2011: Libya and Syrian Civil War beings; Qauddafi is overthrown.

2013 Sept: Russia intervenes to prevent bombing campaign after Obama's 'red line' is crossed (probably by rebels that hope for USA bombing).

2014 July: ISIS takes Mosul after government forces many times larger abandon the city. ISIS gains a huge supply of weaponry as well as a great deal of financial resources.

2015 Sept: Russia intervenes in Syria; USA's weak response to ISIS becomes clear:

> A $500 million program to counter ISIS results in only 5 graduates. Many (hundreds? thousands?) enrollees "drop-out", supposedly because they would rather right Assad.

> Intelligence officers file whistle-blower claim that their intelligence about ISIS was "distorted" to play down the threat that they posed.

> USA bombing campaign virtually ignored ISIS's lucrative oil trade - as well as NATO ally Turkey's support for ISIS.

2015 Oct 31: Russian plane is downed by ISIS after Obama warned Putin of a 'quagmire' and despite Pentagon insistance that Russia was not fighting ISIS

2015 Dec 2: San Bernandino attack - probably led by a Saudi citizen - ensures that the ISIS attack on Russia (after only 6 weeks of intervention) is balanced by an attack on USA (after more than a year of bombing ISIS). Was San Bernandino CYA? (CYA: "Cover Your Ass")

Note: Americans are generally apathetic about foreign affairs unless/until USA 'meddling' hits home.

2016 April: Syrian Peace deal is threatened by resupply of rebels (who have a history of turning over their arms to ISIS and al Nusra); Iranian Peace Deal is also threatened by Obama Administration's refusal to lift sanctions as they urge Iran to accept the departure of Assad.

2. Obama's "lead from behind" foreign policy
Allows ME "allies" to engage in behavior that Western democracies could not. The policy implies logistical, diplomatic, and material support for the Sunni proxy army of extremists. And this support is born out by facts (see above).

3. FBI program to prevent attacks on the Homeland mostly entraps weak-minded/downtrodden individuals.

In light of the above, it is natural to be skeptical of the Orlando attack. Was Omar Marteen 'groomed' for a possible attack? Was he really gay (we don't yet know of any sexual encounters)? Was he really motivated by ISIS (we don't yet have any solid evidence of that)? Or is a patsy?

What about his 3-year son? Why would a parent of a young child end his life?

Our covert support for ME "allies" - especially wrt the 'Assad must go!' campaign - is a bi-partisan affair. But Trump threatens these cozy and very lucrative relationships.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Last week Trump threatened to reveal the Clinton Foundation dealings with ME nations. He has also previously vowed to quickly end ISIS (implication: by pressuring our allies to end their support).

Was this attack, and the rush to 'pin' it on ISIS also CYA? (as San Bernandino had possibly been)? An effort to get ahead of Trump's revelations?

Trump has (smartly) altered his plan of attack. Instead of highlighting Clinton Foundation financial dealings in a way that might be construed as 'conspiracy theory', he is talking about Obama/Hilary's inability to recognize the problem.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 16 2016 20:16 utc | 129

in re 117 --

Yeah, when the Saudis went Wahabi in the 1800's they were under a serious threat....

Posted by: rufus magister | Jun 16 2016 22:32 utc | 130

Baruch Goldstein had military training, a full auto Galil assault rifle and possibly grenades.

He opened fire while his victims were prostrate in worship. He only managed to kill 29, before being overwhelmed and beaten to death. Other Israeli soldiers may also have opened fire in the ensuing chaos, contributing to the casualty count.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre#Casualties

And yet, nothing near the body count of the Orlando shooter.

Something smells bad. It reeks.

Posted by: JCM | Jun 20 2016 9:55 utc | 131

@JCM 131, ' Other Israeli soldiers may also have opened fire in the ensuing chaos, contributing to the casualty count.'

Local Orlando cops|FBI may also have opened fire in the ensuing chaos, contributing to the casualty count?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 20 2016 12:41 utc | 132

Recent developments
Lapdog media refutes Trump

1) The FBI released partial transcripts of the shooters 911 call (and supposedly also some of the interaction with the hostage negotiator, though I haven't seen that). They created an artificial controversy by redacting the "pledge" to Baghdadi and ISIS.

The "uproar" over the redaction - and the accompanying relief at the FBI's releasing unredacted transcripts masks the fact that no independent source has heard the tape recordings.

More importantly, AFAIK reporters are NOT demanding to hear the tapes. A free and independent press would demand that a diverse group of their colleagues have an opportunity listen to the actual tapes.

What about voice/speech analysis? What about confirmation from those who knew Marteen that it is Marteen's voice?

Also:

a) Marteen called 911 twice without saying anything. He said something only after they called him back. Why was he so hesitant to talk?

b) It is now reported that he was at the nightclub earlier in the evening. He left and returned. Was he reluctant to carry out the shooting? All the more reason for reporters to actually hear the tapes.

c) It was reported that Marteen called a tv or radio station, posted to facebook, and did internet searches to confirm coverage of the shooting. Marteen was very interested in publicity. But he took no steps beforehand (like a martyrdom video) to ensure that his "pledge" to ISIS was known?


Why did Marteen stay at the nightclub (Paris and San Bernandino attackers were mobile)? Who was the friend that he called? What did he say to that friend? Why was he tweeting with his wife instead of talking with her? WAS MARTEEN SET UP? Was it really Marteen that 'pledged' to ISIS? Or was Marteen already dead?

USA support - even if only indirect or covert - of allies that support a proxy army of Sunni extremists taint any investigation of terr0r attacks associated with those extremists. Feckless media coverage only adds to suspicions.

2) Univision interviewed a gay man who says that he had a short affair with Marteen. He says that Marteen was angry because he had gotten HIV from an earlier gay encounter/relationship.

Would acquiring HIV - now treatable! - have sparked the rage needed for a mass killing months later? Possibly. But if he didn't get HIV, then there is no cause for the rage. And no cause to abandon his son/family.

This is easy to verify. And if it is true, then it throws doubt on the "ISIS-inspired" theory.

Will they test the body? Will they release the results? Will they allow independent confirmation?

Note: Univision and Donald Trump are involved in a bitter legal battle!

3) A 'friend' of Marteen's who attends the same Mosque came forward to say that he had warned the FBI about Marteen.

Is his account believable? Or does he try too hard to make it so? He doesn't say if he was paid to inform.

He says he came forward to refute Trump's talk about Muslim's not informing on those who pose a risk.

Note: The Washington Post is also unfriendly to Donald Trump!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 22 2016 16:31 utc | 134

follow up @134

For those who didn't see Trump's remarks on the Orlando shooting, he basically said that:

1. Hillary and Obama refuse to identify "radical islamic terrorism" as the cause;

2. he (Trump) is a better friend to the gay community because the Hillary Campaign/Clinton Foundation takes money from countries/interests that are anti-gay;

3. the American muslim community should better police itself.

OTOH, Obama and Hillary have spoken of "self radicalizing" (essentially absolving extremist groups and fundamentalist teachings) and pointed to Assad as the motivator of extremist groups like ISIS.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 22 2016 17:17 utc | 135

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