Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 13, 2016

A Few More Questions About The Orlando Massacre

Some additional bits about the NYPD fan who allegedly killed some 50 people in Orlando are coming to light.

The father of the guy who is an immigrant from Afghanistan was a bit of a loon himself. He damned Pakistan and Afghan politicians over the Durand line. He put himself forward as a candidate for the Afghan presidency even when no election was in sight.

His son, the killer, was known to the FBI as a loon. He hated black, gays, Jews etc and had claimed affinity to the Boston bomber, Al-Qaeda, Hizbullah and the Islamic State - three groups which hate each other. He was not known to have any contact to any of these groups.

The Islamic State took the obvious step of adopting the shooter. The claim of IS responsibility did not come from the core organization but from its "news" agency which cited "sources". The IS folks are unlikely to have known of his existence until they heard the news. For them it is just good propaganda to claim a relation.

The various politicians use the case as they use any case. They propagandize their favorite policies and whatever facts of the case do not fit those policies are simply shoved aside. One can only ignore them and hope that over time sanity will prevail.

There are open questions I have yet to find answered:

Any big event in these days produces dozens of videos. Some people inside the club must have filmed whatever happened. Will we ever see those clips?

How does one guy in a club full of men manages to shoot 50+ and wound another 50+ without getting overwhelmed? He needed to change ammunition clips several times. The ideal time to attack him. Where there no three strong guys around in the club to jump him?

Was it really only one shooter? Those are a lot of casualties for one sole loon to cause.

It will take weeks until a more or less solid picture of the incident can be painted. There will of course be lots of speculations about false flag attacks and the like, including here in the comments. I do not see any evidence for such. The FBI had him on its radar?

Well, there are some 600,000 people on the U.S. no-fly-list. Hardly any of them is a "terrorists". The FBI has even more under on and off surveillance. Its haystack is too big to find the real needles. They thought he as a loon and not a danger. They were right with the loon part.

Posted by b on June 13, 2016 at 02:20 PM | Permalink

Comments
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Here's the father meeting with members of Congress.

Here's a witness who claims a man was holding the exit door shut, not allowing people to leave.

Here's a neighbor describing the 'patriotic' Omar Mateen.

Found at icymi.co.

Posted by: Anonymous 2 | Jun 13, 2016 2:26:56 PM | 1

Turkish newspaper: "50 perverts murdered in a bar"

https://actualidad.rt.com/ultima_hora/210136-periodico-turco-50-pervertidos-orlando

Posted by: Dario | Jun 13, 2016 2:33:01 PM | 2

this is a repost from the previous series of comments

http://www.npiamerica.org/research/category/what-the-founders-really-thought-about-race

My point in bringing it to your attention is to attempt to make it clear, all posturing aside, that the oligarchy is (and has always been) in control. In order to really change anything will require a desire by the masses to risk revolution. Thus far only individual actors have made themselves felt. We, as a nation, are still what the founding fathers hoped for ... and the interesting thing to me is that situations like that in Orlando so easily distract us.

In this context, distraction after the victory of Clinton changes from the capitulation by Sanders. In short, perhaps a false flag for maintaining the same old same old, the status quo, the way things are.

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 13, 2016 2:39:42 PM | 3

this is a repost from the previous series of comments

http://www.npiamerica.org/research/category/what-the-founders-really-thought-about-race

My point in bringing it to your attention is to attempt to make it clear, all posturing aside, that the oligarchy is (and has always been) in control. In order to really change anything will require a desire by the masses to risk revolution. Thus far only individual actors have made themselves felt. We, as a nation, are still what the founding fathers hoped for ... and the interesting thing to me is that situations like that in Orlando so easily distract us.

In this context, distraction after the victory of Clinton changes from the capitulation by Sanders. In short, perhaps a false flag for maintaining the same old same old, the status quo, the way things are.

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 13, 2016 2:39:43 PM | 4

Usually an event the magnitude of the Orlando killings presents an opportunity to push agendas as well as cover for major events or failures of the power structure.

"The head of Iran’s Hajj and Pilgrimage Organization says Saudi officials barred Iranians from taking part in 2016 Hajj pilgrimage as they fear more revelations on the scope of a deadly human crush last year."

Iran is a Theocracy. The position of the Saudi's as keepers of Mecca and Medina banning Iranian pilgrims from Mecca during Hajj is tantamount to a declaration of war.

source - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/06/13/saudis-fear-iran-shedding-light-on-hajj-tragedy-iran-official/

The VT article I sourced is a bit sketchy but the import of this event cannot be understated.

Just my opinion

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 13, 2016 2:41:23 PM | 5

Even under the best of circumstances in a nation of 300 million and counting there will be lots of 'loons' and the FBI are not psychic and can't predict which ones will really become mass killers and which won't before it happens. Everything looks obvious in hindsight...

That said, Islam the POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY encourages this sort of thing. It's like Nazism, except that in addition to hating jews and gypsies and slavs Islamic men also hate women, children, Christians, atheists, Hindus, homosexuals, other sects of islam... and the trains don't run on time.

Japan doesn't let Muslims enter their country. Japan has basically zero problems with islamic terrorism. Perhaps Trump has a point here...

Posted by: TG | Jun 13, 2016 2:48:38 PM | 6

Sons of Muslim Immigrants – Self-radicalization

Sins of the father do not apply to the Orlando nightclub attacker | France24 |

Begining with the standard hailing of the Prophet, Mateen then launches into his message.

    “Greetings to the people of Afghanistan, my dear compatriots. You may know about the death of my child, I am really sad,” says Mateen, dressed in a formal black suit, before going on to reiterate, time and again, that he does not understand how and why his son, “a good child, educated, with a wife and children” could have committed such a ghastly deed. “I don’t have any information. I don’t understand. I didn’t know he had oqda inside him,” says Mateen, using a Dari word for bitterness or grievance.

He then proceeds to briefly explain what his son did.

    “He went into a gay club where there were boys and girls. He killed them. I am profoundly sad, my heart is bleeding. I say to the American people, I don’t know why he did such a thing during this sacred month of Ramadan. Only God is our judge, it’s not our business as slaves of God. Only God can punish them, not us…May God protect young people and put them on Islam’s right path.”

He continues before ending with a familiar anti-Pakistan rant. “I told the American TV station [NBC] Pakistan is responsible for terrorism and insecurity. Long live the people of Afghanistan, death to Pakistan.”

From my earlier post - Omar Mateen: A U.S. Patriot Gone Astray.

Posted by: Oui | Jun 13, 2016 3:41:43 PM | 7

The Orlando Killer's real background?

Here is a recent piture in the MSM:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160612152311-omar-manteen-orlando-police-large-169.jpg

And here he is working (standing in front of the pillar):

http://mondoweiss.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/sarona.png

No wonder the Muslims were quickly placed in the spotlight!

Posted by: Anonymouse | Jun 13, 2016 3:43:21 PM | 8

Link to a forum who likes to debunk media events. Ymmv.

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1894&sid=9b8ef8b4c33a35e4f5727ea624083b26

Posted by: Lozion | Jun 13, 2016 3:46:22 PM | 9

@b. 'had claimed affinity to the Boston bomber, Al-Qaeda, Hizbullah and the Islamic State - three groups which hate each other'

But the CIA loves them all - well not Hizbullah, although they'd certainly love to use Hiz members as terrorists. So maybe Omar's 'connection' was the CIA, and their mutual friends. That may well be the source of the Tsarnaev allusion. Both families were brought into the USA as parts of the CIA's worldwide terrorist operations.

As you point out it will be some while yet before we get more nearly solid information on the big picture.

Someone, FTB I think, pointed out that the most salient fact of this event is 50 blameless dead people. The blameless dead are always the most salient fact of all the neo-cons' adventures since the turn of the millennium, in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Syria, Ukraine ... the seven sorrowful sisters beset upon by the serial destroyers of countries and murderers of peoples headed up by George W Bush and Barack H Obama, the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate. The numbers of blameless dead there are in the millions.

If we want it to end we have to go to the source. The source is in Washington DC, USA. MLKjr said it nearly 70 years ago ...


As I have walked among the desperate, rejected, and angry young men, I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action. But they asked, and rightly so, “What about Vietnam?” They asked if our own nation wasn’t using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today: my own government. For the sake of those boys, for the sake of this government, for the sake of the hundreds of thousands trembling under our violence, I cannot be silent.

Although it is still about Vietnam and Southeast Asia "we" have now "advanced" to Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Syria, Ukraine ... and certainly seem to be headed for Russia and China.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 13, 2016 3:53:02 PM | 10

thanks b.. you make some good points as usual.

the guy was a loon.. yeah.. but the other labels must stick in order for people to continue... all arrows in the west point to ISIS, so why not help them out a little here, but continuing the same arrow pointing/labeling?

as bored muslim pointed out in the previous thread - baruch goldstein.. they eventually overpowered him after many were murdered.. was he a loon or a orthodox jew? same deal andres brievik.. was he a loon or a christian? this gets tiring..

Posted by: james | Jun 13, 2016 4:08:39 PM | 11

Very good questions b.

With an off-duty police officer and a team of bouncers on site.........seems like a hard tackle from behind would be possible.

Posted by: David | Jun 13, 2016 4:34:53 PM | 12

see https://twitter.com/jeremyscahill Nateeb had worked for G4S since 2007.

PTSD? When you google G4S they are involved from Guantanamo to UK centers for rape victims. And yes, they have contracts in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Is it only the FBI who spread he was an Islamist? ISIS does not count - they would boast anything.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 13, 2016 4:51:50 PM | 13

This guy, Mateen, reminds me of Oswald, LH. Oswald, deserted the Marines(!), reappeared in Russia, came back with a Russian wife, established the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, set about making pro-Communist speeches, appeared on TV defending Communism, and just happened to land a job, out of all places, overlooking the parade route JFK was to take that notorious morning. And no one in the Govt took notice!?!

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 13, 2016 4:56:31 PM | 14

So lol. This situation reeks of false flag and the Mateen family sounds like they might have been groomed. But yeah, Oswald acted alone, etc., etc...

Posted by: paul | Jun 13, 2016 5:01:55 PM | 15

First question, what happened to the bouncers when Omar was entering with not easy to conceal semi-automatic rifle. That was the time of the first shooting, so the most competent and bold people suffered first.

The rest of people were tired, drunk, and the panic did the rest. The killer was literally a professional. I bet that he knew a thing or two about martial arts and how to avoid being ambushed from behind. Because this is not the first shootout like that, although particularly lethal, I was theorizing to myself that a decent strategy would be tossing stuff at the killer, easy for people to join and it could give cover to those capable of overwhelming the killer. But there is not much stuff and cover on a dance floor! In a classroom folks could toss laptops and desks, but there? Perhaps bottles from behind the bar but that is easier said than done. In theory, it could be a good idea because alcohol vapor in a closed area can be quite incapacitating.

Contrary to my first impression, the guy may had severe problem handling marital life etc. but professionally, he had a steady job that presumably involved training in firearms and other type of combat.


Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 13, 2016 5:10:02 PM | 16

he worked for wakenhut
waken who
they got taken over by g4s
who g4s
israel and the uk use the services of g4s
g4s is pulling out of israel
triple whammy
lgbt victim hood
zion revenge on g4s
another muslim story for the msm.
real or not gladio trauma tavistock works.
100 years of mind shock and awe

Posted by: charles drake | Jun 13, 2016 5:29:32 PM | 17

martin or is mateen worked for wakenhut
g4s took over wakenhut

msm endless talk of islam
nobody asking who he worked for


What? A big private company - one with a board of former CIA, FBI and Pentagon officials; one in charge of protecting Nuclear-Weapons facilities, nuclear reactors, the Alaskan oil pipeline and more than a dozen American embassies abroad; one with long-standing ties to a radical ring-wing organization; one with 30,000 men and women under arms - secretly helped IRAQ in its effort to obtain sophisticated weapons?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_wackenhut06.htm

Posted by: charles drake | Jun 13, 2016 5:39:27 PM | 18

@16, at that moment, I can assure you, one's mind is preoccupied with the prevention of having one's bones punctured by bullets.

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 13, 2016 5:44:58 PM | 19

the folks on here who do not believe cnn,bbc and fox all i can say is shame on you.
i kid you not i am really discustard by some of you anti semites.

a little film clip on bullets for gunless city folks

The Impossible Lie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wP_GsMvG80

Posted by: charles drake | Jun 13, 2016 6:03:46 PM | 20

The timeline I have seen said there was a confrontation at the entrance to the club between the alleged shooter and the club's security - including an armed off-duty cop - at about 2 AM. Shots were apparently fired. The shooter then entered the club and the situation became a "hostage taking". The SWAT team stormed the club at 5 AM, meaning the "hostage" situation lasted three hours. Was the alleged shooter firing and killing people for all three hours? It can't be determined from any of the eyewitnesses. He apparently shot over 100 people. Were people killed by the SWAT assault? How is it that 300 people could be held for 3 hours by one guy, even if he did have an automatic weapon?

Posted by: jayc | Jun 13, 2016 6:11:30 PM | 21

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain ...

"U.S. President Barack Obama granted expanded military authority to the 9,800 U.S. troops stationed in Afghanistan on June 9. Under the new authorization, U.S. troops serving in a training and counterterrorism capacity can now join conventional Afghan security forces on the battlefield if their presence is deemed to have "strategic effect."

source - https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/afghanistan-war-politics-not-policy

"An Afghan soldier has been killed after border forces exchanged gunfire with Pakistani soldiers at the main crossing point between the two countries.
The overnight fighting at the Torkham crossing began shortly after 9pm (16:00 GMT) on Sunday. Pakistani officials said eight civilians were wounded, while Afghan authorities said there were six injuries on its side of the border."

source - http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/afghan-soldier-killed-border-clash-pakistan-160613075159320.html

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 13, 2016 6:19:10 PM | 22

reading the comments here, one quickly becomes aware of who is who, lol..

Posted by: james | Jun 13, 2016 6:55:55 PM | 23

number 24 from dimona
you talk of jewish massacre
what about the patsy martin or marteen
who worked for g4s
what is the relationship of g4s and the israeli state
come on brudder
muslim sim meme is getting kind of tired.

not only that but 2 many jewish charactor actors keep dying.
how many more no tears for oded yinon


Paris attack psy-op :MK-Ginnie: 'The girl in the picture'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78iuDSrCO7o

Posted by: charles drake | Jun 13, 2016 7:01:56 PM | 24

Maybe the CIA wants EL TRUMPO for president. After this weird incident in Orlando.. It certain to say that EL TRUMP is the winner in Florida. Now EL TRUMP needs to win in Ohio to say Adious Hitlery..If I recall some days ago I read some creep fake news of Somalis shooting spree at a Synagogue in Cleveland

Posted by: Nick | Jun 13, 2016 7:24:27 PM | 25

There is no way that a single gunman can kill 50 ppl in a room with an armed security guard on the premises and a bunch of big strong young men (gay or otherwise) to take him down beforehand. IOW, maybe one guy can shoot and kill a few, but not 50 for chrissakes. And the one mother - on endless loop - on tv with Snaffalalphagus sheds NOT ONE TEAR! I'm a man and I balled my eyes out for my dead dog for chrissakes - let alone my uncles, cousins and my mother and father, RIP. And she remembers to close with the boilerplate assault weapons ban. I call bullshite.

Posted by: fast freddy | Jun 13, 2016 7:26:34 PM | 26

More info on the FBI connection.

The FBI had been dealing with the alleged attacker for 10 months. They had introduced him t several 'informers - FBI-speak for 'handlers'. From FBI affadavits, these 'informants' act as members of terrorist outfits, who coach the patsy in appropr5iate techniques prior to the final setup.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/confirmed-fbi-introduced-florida.html

Here is a photo of the rear wall of the club where the shooting happened. That's one helluva load of damage. There is evidence of 'spray-n-pray' shooting against the exterior of the wall (by the police?) and presumably a load of bullets on the ground marked by flags.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2671476.1465819782!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/539631626.jpg

Posted by: Yonatan | Jun 13, 2016 7:32:41 PM | 27

TG @ 6, Anonymous @ 20:

As of 2007, there were about 70,000 - 100,000 Muslims living in Japan of whom 90% were foreign-born (mostly from Southeast Asia and the Indian subcontinent) and the rest being native-born converts. The major Muslim communities are Indonesian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Iranian and Turkish.

Kawakami Yasunori, "Local Mosques and the Lives of Muslims in Japan", The Asia-Pacific Journal, May 2, 2007,Volume 5 | Issue 5
http://apjjf.org/-Kawakami-Yasunori/2436/article.html

There have been acts of religious terrorism in Japan and all of them were carried out by extremist Buddhist individuals or groups, the most recent of these being the sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway carried out by the Aum Shinrikyo group in 1995 which killed 13 people and injured over 50 others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack

You guys were saying? ...

Posted by: Jen | Jun 13, 2016 7:41:30 PM | 28

@ A1 #20

I find you opinion that there is no "moderate Islam" to be short-sighted and bigoted.

there was a movement towards moderate and secular Islam, but the West has intervened and toppled those governments (In Iran in the 1950's, or more recently Iraq and Libya) and chooses to support primitive feudal monarchies like Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, who in turn promote fundamentalist Wahabism to placate their own people.

Fundamentalist Islam is thus financed by our dependency on the resources coming out of the Middle East. Trying to physically separate Muslims from US citizens without also physically separating us from their oil is like trying to deport Mexicans and still eat all the fruits and vegetables that they pick...

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jun 13, 2016 7:44:14 PM | 29

Most of the victims were Puerto Ricans. Unless they're like Juan Epstein in Welcome Back Kotter, very few Jews were in the club at the time.

Posted by: Les | Jun 13, 2016 7:58:19 PM | 30

i can't get know g4s traction
the tel aviv force is strong here.
he worked for the biggest security group in the world.
the group runs torture prison sites in israel and all you clowns talk about is his msm stated religion.
a religion that the biggest security firm in the world must of known about.
and as g4s purchased wakenhut off the dark side of the cia g4s would have had the files on his operation cyclone family.

but the back story is not important as long as the gladio trauma works and the clubs jewish owners are compensated.

did i mention g4s are pulling out of israel?

Posted by: charles drake | Jun 13, 2016 8:25:42 PM | 31

@25 No kidding ;)
Guys, dont feed the anon trolls..

Posted by: Lozion | Jun 13, 2016 8:29:02 PM | 32

Good questions, b. Here's a real journalist, as opposed to MSM, asking more questions like yours:
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/13/orlando-mass-shooting-the-accelerated-police-state-uk-column-june-13-2016/

Posted by: Penelope | Jun 13, 2016 8:46:31 PM | 33

Shooter reportedly a regular at Pulse Gay Club ...


http://gawker.com/orlando-shooter-was-reportedly-a-regular-at-pulse-and-h-1781920316

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 13, 2016 9:47:00 PM | 34

@30 yonantan.. thanks... from your first link, to which i say... good luck seeing that happen...

"Considering the disturbing activities conducted by FBI informants during these "investigations," the FBI appears obligated to tell the American public just what their "informants" were doing with Florida shooting suspect Omar Mateen in the 10 months they were "investigating" him beginning in 2013.

Did they also walk Mateen through planned attacks he ultimately backed out of? Did he eventually change his mind again after the FBI's investigation was allegedly closed?

The American media and US elected representatives have an obligation to ask these questions, obtain this information from the FBI, and to reevaluate the FBI's means and methods of investigating potential suspects through what is clearly a dangerous process of entrapment, indoctrination, and deceit.

The FBI's counterterrorism program has not made America safer. It has clearly been used to provide a steady stream of "foiled attacks" that otherwise would never have materialized - causing hysteria, hatred, fear, and division across American society. The FBI's counterterrorism program has also clearly failed monumentally to stop actual terror suspects known to them before real attacks have unfolded."

Posted by: james | Jun 13, 2016 9:57:06 PM | 35

Ralphieboy @ 32

Your comment was brief but it's one of the few sane and informed comments I've seen so far on the Orlando club mass shooting.

You are correct, the movement towards moderate and secular Islam in the Middle East under leaders like Mossadegh in Iran, Gamal Abdel Nasser in Egypt and some of the early Ba'ath Party leaders in other parts (Iraq, Syria) was undermined by the US, the UK and France - because those movements also involved regaining the ownership and control of natural resources such as oil and gas away from Western energy companies so that the monies earned from their extraction could be used to provide a better standard of living for all Arabs living in these countries.

Significantly the last of the moderate and secular Islamic societies in the Middle East today is Syria - and don't we MoA readers all know about the West's efforts to undermine and overthrow Bashar al Assad's government and all that it represents!

One thing that could have been mentioned too (but which most people don't know about) is that US ally Saudi Arabia has been funding schools in overseas Muslim communities. The pattern often is that refugees fleeing instability created by US and Israeli actions go to Western countries for safety, put down roots and attempt to establish mosques and community centres, but these communities (being poor and having few or no connections to money, and ignored by mainstream governments and charities in their host countries) must rely on overseas charity; and that "charity" is coming from the Gulf oil kingdoms and sheikhdoms with agendas of their own.

Robert Fife, "Saudi religious funding fosters terror, study says"
http://pointdebasculecanada.ca/saudi-religious-funding-fosters-terror-study-says/

Emma Henderson, "Saudi Arabia 'funding Islamic extremism in the West', German vice-chancellor Sigmar Gabriel claims"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/saudi-arabia-funding-islamic-extremism-west-german-vice-chancellor-sigmar-gabriel-a6763366.html

In one case, Saudi Arabia has even given money to a secular mainstream university in Australia, in spite of opposition from moderate Muslims in Australia.
Mervyn Bendle, "NATIONAL SECURITY: Secret Saudi funding of Australian institutions"
http://www.newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=3808

Posted by: Jen | Jun 13, 2016 10:04:47 PM | 36

In the previous post on this subject, b inferred "foul ball" on the meme that the Pulse massacre was the worst massacre in US history. He mentioned Wounded Knee. Others chipped in with Waco and mass killings of labor strikers.

These are misconstruing the meme -- it is not about the worst mass killings, it's about the worst mass killing by a single person. And more restrictive than that, the worst mass shooting by a single person. There is a subtle political agenda behind the shooting restriction, but that's what the most of the MSM are saying -- "the worst mass shooting."

Wounded Knee saw 300 Lakota men, women and children shot and killed; however, they were not killed by a single person but by an entire Calvary regiment. The "Red Summer" of 1919 saw hundreds of blacks killed by white mobs all across the mid-west and south -- 150 or more in a couple of locations. The Tusa riot of 1921 saw hundreds of blacks gunned down by Army machine-guns.

A sicko named Andrew Philip Kehoe holds the record for US school massacre -- 44 people, mostly kids, 1927 in Michigan. But they were bombed.

But as far as a single person with guns taking out the largest number, the Pulse Massacre looks like the record for the US. God help us all when a Republican Congress brings fully automatic weapons under the 2d Amendment. As it is, it's clear that by virtue of the 2d Amendment the Constitution is really a suicide pact made in behalf of the Fondling Fathers for future generations.

But before we get all pissy about the US, don't forget that Anders Breivik holds the world record for a single f*ck-wad with a gun -- 77, including 2 who died trying to escape. And if you wade into the realm of military atrocities or multiple African killing sprees, 75 would be nothing.

Posted by: Denis | Jun 13, 2016 10:15:20 PM | 37

One indisputable truth in this latest massacre.....The perpetual warfare will continue.

Posted by: ben | Jun 13, 2016 10:18:23 PM | 38

b,
totally OT, but your use of vernacular english, correct and natural use of slang, etc., has improved marvelously of late (last few months).


Posted by: sillybill | Jun 13, 2016 10:23:10 PM | 39

Anyone heard the actual 911 call or the call back to the shooter? This is the source of the claim of IS allegiance and is a critical piece of evidence. If he expected to die then perhaps there is a message elsewhere claiming allegiance to IS as he would have understood that he might be killed before giving his message.

It may be that the claim of IS allegiance is not true and is simply a government ploy to boost concerns over Islamic terrorism.

Posted by: Ian | Jun 13, 2016 10:37:24 PM | 40

Reading all this I am reminded of Voltaire who wrote that (sic) "History is a lie commonly agreed on."

What will the Wag The Dog story be next week?

At some point the BS does actually touch the fan blades and everyone needs to have their duck and cover strategy.....

The saddest is the ongoing waste of humanity because of induced fear by the global plutocratic families. Why are those families never the victims of killings like this? Because all are brainwashed to never make the connection between those families and the suffering in their lives. I fully expect, when change does come, that those at the real top will ride above the chaos and manipulate the results to their ongoing favor.....I hope history proves me wrong.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 13, 2016 11:23:43 PM | 41

"Where there no three strong guys around in the club to jump him?"

Oh come on...that certainly is easy to say from the quiet safety of your own living room, but the shock of having bloody mayhem suddenly break out all around you would be overwhelming even for an armed and trained police officer, let alone a bunch of civilians who had spent the night partying and drinking.

I like your blog, and you are usually spot on. But you should never try to pass judgment on the actions of other in such a dire situation.

Posted by: Bill Hicks | Jun 14, 2016 12:05:38 AM | 42

charles drake @ 18, That's right. He worked for Wackenhut-- for the past 9 years.
Wackenhut guards US embassies in some countries, oil pipelines, nuclear facilities. They also have a reutation
for dirty deeds, helping to overthrow govts, etc. Evidently the oligarchs are trying to bring the Gays and the millennials
into approval w their anti-Muslim foreign policy. (Millennials thru the music connection.)

This link gives a lot of good info, not JUST questions.
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/13/orlando-mass-shooting-the-accelerated-police-state-uk-column-june-13-2016/

Personally, I can't imagine why anyone would begin by taking it for granted that ANYTHING about the story is true;
the govt & media lie to us nonstop.

charles, you diminish yourself w the anti-jewish references. We're all against Zionism, but all jews aren't Zionists.

Posted by: Penelope | Jun 14, 2016 12:06:06 AM | 43

Penelope @ 46:

Wackenhut / G4S also ran the detention centre on Manus Island (Papua New Guinea) to process refugees and asylum seekers from Afghanistan, Iran and various other Third World countries for the Australian government from early 2013 to March 2014. There were reports of human rights abuses by G4S guards employed at the centre.

http://www.thecitizen.org.au/news/more-australians-wanting-blow-whistle-manus-island-and-nauru-conditions

Posted by: Jen | Jun 14, 2016 1:02:55 AM | 44

Then there is this: http://www.madcowprod.com/2016/06/13/orlando-shooter-dad-longtime-cia-asset/

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Jun 14, 2016 1:03:12 AM | 45

And don't forget this:

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2013/05/03/uncle-ruslan-tsarnis-organization-may-have-funded-terrorists/

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Jun 14, 2016 1:12:39 AM | 46

@40
"The Tusa riot of 1921 saw hundreds of blacks gunned down by Army machine-guns."

That was Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Posted by: Mudduck | Jun 14, 2016 1:41:23 AM | 47

The hard-boiled cynic in me wonders why these "evil Mooslums", ISIS, et al, can never be bothered with attacking their avowed enemy, the (gay supporting) Zionists in Israel, or even other logical targets -- such as shooting up a crowded synagogue here in the states. In fact, if I were of a conspiratorial bent, I'd be inclined to think that these bloodthirsty Mooslums have a habit of creating "terrorist" events that inadvertently further the agendas of the western elites: blackening the name of Islam, disarming the masses, creating the LGBT-community-as-victims consciousness, increasing the security/police state, destabilizing resource-rich countries in the ME, and providing a boogeyman to further justify their fraudulent War On Terror.

Posted by: Eddie Slovik | Jun 14, 2016 2:01:10 AM | 48

I gots a question. Can Muslim counries ban Americans and American agents from entering in their countries, as I'd say the US has killed more muslims since 9/11 than any other country and perhaps Trump's immigration ban should work both ways.

Posted by: Romulus | Jun 14, 2016 2:31:04 AM | 49

Romulus @52

Nice thought but private finance controlled America rules the rest of the world through the projection of their Reserve Currency status.

In case you missed it, if you try to stand up to the jackboot of global private finance as a leader, you will likely find yourself dead.......like in Hillary's "We came, we saw, he died."

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 14, 2016 2:39:29 AM | 50

Eddie Slovik @51, nice post.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 14, 2016 4:57:33 AM | 51

This attack is a real Rorschach test for America: some people blend out the aspect of a marginalized individual targeting a minority group and see only the aspect of "Islamic Terror" although the fellow had no active ties to any terror organization.

And the nuances that he was an American citizen, born and raised in the USA, that he had a record of mental instability are lost in the current news climate that consists almost entirely of headlines, tweets and sound bytes.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jun 14, 2016 6:09:00 AM | 52

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 13, 2016 9:47:00 PM | 37

New York Times had an article online quoting his ex-wife that he might have been gay but unable to accept it. The article seems to have changed now.

They still quote his father that hatred of gays was the main motivation.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2016 6:09:47 AM | 53

Witness: Omar Mateen had visited Pulse nightclub | Orlando Sentinel |

FORT PIERCE — At least four regular customers at the Orlando gay nightclub where a gunman killed 49 people said Monday that they had seen Omar Mateen there before.

"Sometimes he would go over in the corner and sit and drink by himself, and other times he would get so drunk he was loud and belligerent," Ty Smith said.

Smith told the Orlando Sentinel that he saw Mateen inside at least a dozen times.

"We didn't really talk to him a lot, but I remember him saying things about his dad at times," Smith said. "He told us he had a wife and child."

Another Pulse regular, Kevin West, told the Los Angeles Times that Mateen messaged him on and off for a year using a gay chat app.

...
Mateen's second wife, Noor Zahi Salman, was not cooperating with authorities, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Posted by: Oui | Jun 14, 2016 6:30:21 AM | 54

Here it is: former classmate says Orlando shooter was gay.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2016 6:47:00 AM | 55

Keep it simple;Blowback.
Why would the Zionists help Trump when the HB is their babe?This helps Trump immensely as it exposes the hypocrisy of all the warmongers,who are now trying to move the focus from terror to homophobia by a homo.Which is certainly possible,that self hate drove him,but their is also the overwhelming destruction of the Afghan people,and didn't we execute the head of the Taliban a couple of weeks ago?
Yankee come home.
Trump bans Wapoo,Zion in America,from covering his campaign!hoo hah!

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 14, 2016 8:33:37 AM | 56

Thanks to FB, terrorists can be more gorry every day.
Last 'action', yesterday in a Parisian suburb, a guy who was supposedly under 'watch' for connections with djihadists, managed with a single knife to kill a policeman, get inside his home, kill the wife, create a FB account with name 'Mohammed Ali' and post pics of his victims and of him with the (still living kid) on the sofa and wrote "what am i going to do with him, i yet don't know".

He was finally killed a couple of hours later when the police finally arrived... The kid was safe (unfortunately for him?)

But let's not forget that KSA bought 10 billions of weapons this year, so we're not going to question the ideology they spread, isn't it?

Posted by: Mina | Jun 14, 2016 8:37:14 AM | 57

56;Yes,born here,but obviously more Muslim or Afghan than American.
They are killing fellow American citizens for the crime of being American,an unheard of prior condition.
And of course we deserve every bit of condemnation for our crimes,but innocent citizens shouldn't be the targets,and like someone mentioned,how come the instigators of all this shite are sacrosanct and untargeted?

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 14, 2016 8:37:59 AM | 58

The 911 call is very strange. He called 911 twice but hung up without saying anything. Then 911 called him back and he THEN (supposedly) pledged allegiance to ISIS.

As I recall, the first publicity of the ISIS 'pledge' was from political leaders that had been briefed by the FBI (a Senator, then maybe the Governor). Why did they had ISIS a propaganda victory by trumpeting the 'pledge' to ISIS? Why haven't they released the 911 call with the 'pledge'?

Lets not forget that most supposed ISIS threats have been FBI entrapment operations. They create the appearance of a real threat and US govt vigilance against the same.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

The emotionalism of the attack should not blind us to the larger picture: USA supports "allies" that are using extremists like ISIS as a proxy army. USA was embarrassed by Russia's forceful action in Syria. But USA will probably not really take steps to eliminate ISIS as long as they are useful to us or our "allies".

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 14, 2016 10:38:57 AM | 59

Bravo #31.
A couple of dummies have been posting...

Posted by: ThatDamnGood | Jun 14, 2016 10:49:33 AM | 60

re Mina 61

That murder outside Paris. There's something more complicated going on, I think. The murderer and victims were neighbours. Hatred of the neighbour is probably a big factor. As well as the fact the victim was a flic. The police are notoriously racist. It's a bit parallel to Orlando.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 14, 2016 10:58:44 AM | 61

A1 mentioned it was reminiscent of the Bataclan attack. I had that thought as well. One has to take into account that copy-cat is always a present force in public shootings, ‘terrorist attacks’, and the like (no matter who the perps, be it a ‘lone shooter’ or a more complicated alliance, manipulation.) A club of that kind is actually a super venue for mass killing: hundreds of ppl crowded together in an enclosed space, often unwary, drunk, etc. Security tends to be low or nil or just for show - because it is extremely expensive and destroys the festive ambiance.

What actually happened - how come all this took so long? From 2.00 to 5.00? What went on? Will we ever know?

Remember Elliot Rodgers? He set out to kill a particular group (like Breivik in Norway but less creative/efficient) - as he was from a rich US non-Ayrab family he could not be branded ‘muslim’, etc. He set out to kill pretty blond girls who would not go out with him and from day one he was branded a ‘lone nut.’ He left a diary (which I have read), like Breivik, who left a political manifesto (400 pages or so.)

This vid. of Elliot 6 mins. (You tube will turn up longer and ‘last statements’ and TV docs etc.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBvaVWdJRQM

To say … that the ‘gay’ angle is dodgy and tangential.

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 14, 2016 11:08:21 AM | 62

It took the Orlando Swat team 3 hours from the first shot to strap up, strategize and finally say fuck it, we just have to go in and kill this man. That is wholly unacceptable in my opinion and a point no one is mentioning.

Posted by: Au | Jun 14, 2016 11:42:04 AM | 63

The bread is superb and the circus spectacular ...

Ex-wife shooter was gay -

http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/shooter-used-to-visit-orlando-gay-club-use-gay-dating-apps/

ACLU blames Christian right for shooting -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvJAhdahVp8

Shooters employer stages 'Crises Events' -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX3URuJypwM

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 14, 2016 11:46:00 AM | 64

ALberto @69

But there is always somebody who will complain that there is not enough butter on the popcorn........

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 14, 2016 11:53:24 AM | 65

Orlando shooter did NOT use AR15 ...

It appears that Orlando Police Chief John Mina initially described the weapon as an “AR-15-style assault rifle” and media outlets ran with the classification, several dropping “style” from the description.

The AR-15 is one of the most popular rifles in the U.S. and is regularly demonized by gun control advocates as a “weapon of war.” The semi-automatic rifle is also routinely confused as being a “machine gun” or fully automatic.

source - http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/06/14/despite-what-youve-heard-the-orlando-terrorist-did-not-use-an-ar-15-in-attack/

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 14, 2016 11:57:42 AM | 66

June 14, 2016 - You cannot make this stuff up ...

"The father of the man who slaughtered 50 people in the Orlando nightclub shooting Saturday night is a longtime CIA asset, whose TV show receives funding from the Voice of America -Dari. Pictured below is Seddique Mateen with California Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher"

source - http://www.madcowprod.com/2016/06/13/orlando-shooter-dad-longtime-cia-asset/

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 14, 2016 12:10:49 PM | 67

From Sitora Yusufiy's Facebook page, via heavy.com

Yusufiy posted a note of condolence to her Facebook page saying: "Great Spirit I offer my deepest prayer and condolences to the victims of the Orlando shooting... May they transition in peace may their souls be healed, may the wounded victims recover and heal in peace, may the families and loved ones heal and find their peace.... Archangel Michael Please protect us from suffering and the suffered.... Please protect us from hate, violence, anger and instability.... Amen."

http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/sitora-yusufiy-photos-pictures-omar-mateen-wife-instagram-facebook-page/

She seems like an interesting and thoughtful person. How did she ever get married to the guy? I guess bcz he could also be charming and manipulative...but who knows the ways of the heart and passion.

May her words of hope apply to everyone.

Posted by: jawbone | Jun 14, 2016 12:13:14 PM | 68

Posted by: 4Hhasbara | Jun 14, 2016 10:52:37 AM | 65

Typical "Israeli" Identity Politics drivel.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 14, 2016 12:21:53 PM | 69

@72 - that's interesting .. i thought voice of america was the shortwave broadcast agents used, looks like its morphed online, naturally.

Posted by: Au | Jun 14, 2016 12:26:12 PM | 71

Apologies if this has been posted. Why would she need to drive him to Pulse on 'other occasion' when he has (so says the media) visited it as a customer so many times in the past? http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/Wife-claims-she-tried-to-talk-Omar-Mateen-out-of-attack-382958401.html

Posted by: Daisee | Jun 14, 2016 12:27:31 PM | 72

@Alberto

"The ex-wife of Orlando mass killer Omar Mateen claimed Monday that she believed he was homosexual"

No surprise here. It was obvious that this guy could not accept his homosexuality while under pressure from his family and from his religion. He was looking to expiate his "sin" by killing people that he did not want to be associated with. Islam's sharia and ISIS gave him the greenlight. Islam + homosexuality + conservative family + US culture alienation = mental disturbance and violence

Posted by: virgile | Jun 14, 2016 12:32:59 PM | 73

the hate muslim rant continues over at sst, led by patrick bahzad now..

Posted by: james | Jun 14, 2016 12:48:45 PM | 74

All the perfect sensationalistic ingredients here...terror, LGBTQ victims, lone nutter killing spree, FBI, CIA, NYPD, Afghanistan, Muslims etc. The truth, no doubt, will be lost in the hubris. But the damage done to our personal liberties will remain. If this doesn't get used for political leverage to all of our detriment I will eat my hat....

Posted by: dan | Jun 14, 2016 12:51:42 PM | 75


@6, TG,

Obviously another miserable jew. Jews and Christians have lived in peace with Muslims for centuries, in Islamic lands and beyond. Jews thrived in Andalusian Islamic Spain for 1000 years (One Sultan of Cordoba even had a Jewish Foreign Minister)and Jewish philosophers and scientists benefited greatly from their Muslim peers; hence many, many great scientific achievements were translated into Hebrew and Latin that brought about the Renaissance and Enlightenment to the West. Up until Zionism reared it's ugly head, Jews lived in peace in every Muslim majority country and respected greatly.

As far as Hindus and Muslims go on the Asian Sub-Continent, everything was fine between the two until Hindu racist, fascist 'Nationalism' reared its ugly head; spurred on by certain Western influence. Hence Bangladesh and Pakistan. Gandhi respected Muslims and tried to restore harmony, but failed.

Sorry, but Japan does not subvert and terrorize Islamic majority counties and thus will not see any blow-back. Japan has good relations with all Islamic countries. And I highly doubt you allegation that they do not permit Muslims into their country. But blow-back for Japan is real as far as China goes due to Japanese atrocities.

Again, sorry but Islam is a real Abrahamic monotheistic faith that is here to stay and thrive regardless of how much Zionists plot and scheme against Islam and try to cause a 'Clash of Civilizations' between our Christian brothers of faith and Muslims. The Syrian Arab Army that is fighting the nefarious forces unleashed by said Zionists are Christian and Muslim Arabs.

There are an estimated 1.7 Billion Muslims in the World today(est.), that's about 1 in 5 people on the Planet. Good luck with you and your ilk in your Satanic endeavors. The Eastern Orthodox Church is waking up, and soon the West will too. The Mossad and U.S 5th column will fail to bring about their wet dream of demonizing Islam thus setting off a Global clash) and peace will prevail. God is most good, and wise. You and your friends will plan and plot, but God is the best of planners- as mentioned in the Quran about your sick ilk.

The conversion rate among Jews and Christians to Islam is quite high, why?

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 14, 2016 12:57:15 PM | 76

Orlando shooting makes Newtown shooting look like 'Citizen Kane.' In both instances there were NO AMBULANCES AT THE CRIME SCENE with which to transport wounded to hospital.

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 14, 2016 12:57:51 PM | 77

@81 bored muslim... @31 jen addressed 2 of the posters on this thread (rg and anonymous(A1)) that don't know there ass for a whole in the ground..

further to my previous comment on the hatefest on muslims at sst, i and a few others have been saying all along that this sickness called wahabbism/salafism - whatever you want to call it - that is being spread like peanut butter around the globe via the $ and largess of saudi arabia and etc thru the madrassahs - will have to be addressed.. until it is, we are all essentially fucked..

smoothis over at sst made a good comment on the role of the media.. i quote
"Western MSM are directly complicit in:

1) deliberate and ignorant misrepresentation of the outside world;
2) incessant pushing of nationally-suicidal cultural agendas;
3) war-mongering;
4) direct lies and obscurantism."

Posted by: james | Jun 14, 2016 1:21:07 PM | 78

a whack job identifying closely with a bastardized religion can cause a lot of trouble, regardless of the whackjob religion they identify with.. the religion de jour at present is wahabbism/salafism - the ice cream of ISIS..

Posted by: james | Jun 14, 2016 1:23:45 PM | 79

Neighbour or not neighbour Daguerre, what's the point you are trying to make?? Mantes-la-Jolie is famous for petty crime and the guy has been known by the police for many many years, like any dealer of Mantes-la-Jolie. He certainly knew the guy and knew he was a big cop, but he wanted his minute of fame on FB and now that you can make a snuff movie live why shouldn't any mentally ill guy do it? and as long as FB makes millions of dollars from having this kind of guy have his wall full of pics with guys holding weapons and incitation to murder, why should anyone stop FB ?

Posted by: Mina | Jun 14, 2016 1:24:15 PM | 80

typo: that was addressed to Laguerre

Posted by: Mina | Jun 14, 2016 1:24:50 PM | 81

Posted by: Au | Jun 14, 2016 11:42:04 AM | 68

For some reason it is mentioned in German media.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2016 1:26:15 PM | 82

The gay angle is very important. You grow up in a family where males have life-and-death power and where gays are considered as subhumans who should be drowned at birth (even though you discover than in your culture there is som old pederastic tradition that come directly from ancient Greece -and viceversa). BUT you want to integrate, and where you live in Florida, if you're not Wasp, the best way to integrate (and also because you want to refuse this hypermachist tradition that your patriarchal father represent) is to be gay, since that is what the society tells you that's the cool way to be, and even more so if you're Latino or Black or... Afghan Muslim... But you know your family will never accept that. Then of course to survive with such a double mindset is impossible to bear.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 14, 2016 1:29:51 PM | 83

Oh, about the ridiculous assertion made by miserable TG@6, that Islam hate women. Here look for yourselves:

https://www.google.com/search?q=muhammad+quotes+about+women&biw=1093&bih=491&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJoLH1g6jNAhUEXD4KHVuiBWwQsAQIGw

Also, there is a whole chapter in the Quran that is called 'Women'(An-Nisa):Chapter 4:

http://www.quranexplorer.com/Quran/

This chapter also talks about children and orphans, which our 'friend' TG says Islam hates. Also, take a look at chapter 19 'Maryam-Mary' and see the respect for Mary and Jesus that some books; the Talmud in particular degrades these two beloved figures in Islam to no end. And the Talmud is said to supersede the Torah to our 'friends'.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 14, 2016 1:39:05 PM | 84

Posted by: Mina | Jun 14, 2016 1:29:51 PM | 89

It is possible he was blackmailed for being gay. It is possible the older Tsarnaev brother was blackmailed for a drug trade related murder he had committed.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2016 1:46:17 PM | 85

@898 mina.. i agree with you.. so which comes first? the deranged society, religion, or family background, or the person who is gay and is not allowed to be? and, i am talking ordinary folks, not mentally deranged folks.. one could say the society/religion breeds the later..

Posted by: james | Jun 14, 2016 1:56:25 PM | 86


Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2016 1:46:17 PM | 91

plus

Here it is - New York Times of 2001 - rumours that 9/11 conspirators were gay and

Gay Palestinians are blackmailed into working as informants

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2016 1:58:33 PM | 87

@Anonymous (A1)

[rest deleted - b.]

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 14, 2016 1:59:36 PM | 88


@james, 25

Exactly, it's almost like a precision Swiss timepiece how the wolves shed their sheep clothing and suddenly become Hasbara.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 14, 2016 2:06:56 PM | 89


@jen, 39

You are absolutely right, Saudi Arabia and Qatar have spent 500 billion $ spreading Wahhabism around the Globe.

Also, I apologize for my earlier post, the one with that list(its not my writing; just trying to make a point). It was not necessary and maybe too much and offensive. B, you can take it down if you like and I promise to try and behave myself. :)

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 14, 2016 2:18:22 PM | 90

very interesting eye witness video, was wounded, tells his story, a bit too sentimental maybe ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/us/reconstruct-orlando-pulse-shootings.html?smid=tw-share

Posted by: b | Jun 14, 2016 2:36:28 PM | 91


@James, 79

SST and Patrick are 'mis-information' tools, nothing new here. Look, these people have a funny way of exposing themselves. Its so obvious. I had been 'watching' SST for some time. If you successfully point out most of his bloggers inconsistencies they get upset and out you go. They are mostly charlatans posing as intellectual, anti-imperialists.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 14, 2016 2:36:34 PM | 92

@all

Racist comments by "Anonymous (A1)" deleted, banned

Posted by: b | Jun 14, 2016 2:41:40 PM | 93


Patrick Bahzad at SST likes to brow beat ppl. There is also a lot of Patrick worship over there too. Don't waste your time.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 14, 2016 2:52:30 PM | 94


@ B, in regards to 90-

Thank you, I apologize. It was dumb for me to go there. Cheers.

Posted by: bored muslim | Jun 14, 2016 3:07:57 PM | 95

Posted by: Mina | Jun 14, 2016 1:24:15 PM | 82

The French case is strange in the media - I could find no real personal info on the guy - parents, friends, childhood, job before the halal sandwich business - I looked in French - did you find any?

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2016 3:21:01 PM | 96

One thing that could have been mentioned too (but which most people don't know about) is that US ally Saudi Arabia has been funding schools in overseas Muslim communities. Jen at 39.

I beg your pardon?

‘Many people’ is of course rather vague, are you talking about Brits stuck to their TVs and hating their Muslim neighbors?

I can assure you Jen that ‘many people’ here on this board know about that, and some even know the details.

Funding, the schoolbooks, the teachings, etc.

What about US/EU education infiltrating Saudi Arabia and the financial gains, aka scams, and high-jinks associated with that?

The most stupid + dangerous are those who take on the cloak of intrusive humanitarian experts.

Oh oh oh … KSA teachings and outreach are encouraging fundamentalism / terrorism!

Yes, Whababism has been spread, as has Christianity (Evangelicals) and neo-liberal economics and much more to a far greater degree and effect.

Supporting the 'rabid Arabs' narrative is lame — oops now it is supposed to be Islamist extremist, it is not ‘race’ but culture via religion who are terrorists now.

Ethhnicists (competing memes about race, origins, religion, etc. etc.) conveniently ignore finance, geo-politics generally, war, and corporate power, US plans, etc.

Of course yours was just a short post. But I have seen this kind of stuff so much on the intertubes I get sick of it.

Yeah so I got angry. Scusi.

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 14, 2016 3:25:52 PM | 97

yes, in Le monde article + some guys who knew him from the mosque interviewed on the public radios: france inter and france culture; Moroccan family, moved back to Morocco and that's when he got their appartment; very well known from french police, was in jail til recently, was "watched, followed, listened too" even last month but that did not make it hard for him to post syria pics on his FB page or to "pledge allegiance to Baghdadi" 3 weeks ago.

you must know of course that the French police is the best... at Pétanque, Belote and possibly a number of other games.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 14, 2016 3:25:57 PM | 98

About being blackmailed and pushed into corners by the powerful, i have no doubt it exists! and who knows what kind of manipulation goes online 24/7. The official statistics for France is that 1 on 4 has psychic disorders, so imagine the results on them of having their life made into a pervert narcissic film that is already broadcasted 24/7 and just waits for you to get your 5 minutes of fame...

Posted by: Mina | Jun 14, 2016 3:29:05 PM | 99

re Mina 82

Neighbour or not neighbour Daguerre, what's the point you are trying to make??
The point of this thread is what tips over a Muslim, not very stable, into a suicidal attack. As happened in Orlando. Obviously you have not experienced this, but living next to someone you detest frequently sends people into a sort of madness. In UK, they throw rubbish into each other's gardens, and other such activities. You'd be surprised how important these petty hatreds are. In other contexts, this could be the tipping point which turns someone unstable into a murderer.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 14, 2016 3:38:47 PM | 100

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