U.S. State Department Releases A Statement - As Instructed By Netanyahoo
10:01am · 15 May 2016Barak Ravid @BarakRavid
Netanyahu spoke last night with SecState @JohnKerry and asked him to condemn the Holocaust denial cartoon contest in Iran
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1:43pm · 15 May 2016Matt Lee @APDiploWriter
#US @StateDept on #Iran Holocaust cartoon contest: pic.twitter.com/yirOSwNaQX
Meanwhile John Kerry expressed his concern (not) for human rights in Arab lands :
1:39pm · 15 May 2016John Kerry @JohnKerry
Meeting with @KingSalman today in #Jeddah underscored breadth & depth of US-#SaudiArabia relationship. pic.twitter.com/B1idXVypXr
Posted by b on May 15, 2016 at 13:59 UTC | Permalink
Democracy Now Outed As Turkish/ Israeli Black Propaganda Site
"One by one, Israel has, out of increasing desperation, burned their propaganda assets. Only hours after an Alawite village near Aleppo was put to the sword by “moderate head choppers,” days after the same gang began open shelling of residential areas across Aleppo, Democracy Now, crossed the line. In the article below, a bizarre concoction of black propaganda, internet rumor and CIA/Mossad disinformation, Democracy Now jumps onboard with ISIS, al Nusra and their money backers, Israel’s Mossad, Erdogan’s Turkish police state and the brutal Saudi dictatorship."
Source - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/05/14/democracy-now-outed-as-israeli-black-propaganda-site/
Posted by: ALberto | May 15 2016 14:46 utc | 2
If only Assad had taken a que from his neighbor and utterly crushed the uprising, utterly bombed the shit out of them, then maybe things would be all good. I'm kidding - of course he shouldn't do that but seriously, Israel gets a blatant pass while we draw up red lines to have a reason to launch a couple tomahawks at vital infrastructure.
Posted by: Au | May 15 2016 16:04 utc | 3
http://www.voltairenet.org/article191712.html
by Thierry Meyssan
Every time the Syrian Arab Army beats the jihadists, new combatants arrive in Syria in their thousands. We are therefore forced to admit that this war is being cultivated from the exterior, and that it will last as long as soldiers are sent to die. So we must understand the exterior reasons which continue to maintain it. Then, and only then, can we elaborate a strategy which will spare lives.
Posted by: okie farmer | May 15 2016 16:41 utc | 4
@4 Thierry likes to talk about the Silk Route but it more or less already exists. The biggest obstacle to East/West trade is Europe agreeing to sanctions on Russia which depends on Kiev agreeing to Minsk2. If the sanctions were dropped trade would follow soon enough.
Posted by: dh | May 15 2016 17:49 utc | 6
An important speech by Chas Freeman
http://chasfreeman.net/americas-continuing-misadventures-in-the-middle-east/
Posted by: okie farmer | May 15 2016 18:00 utc | 7
@7 I was OK with most of Freeman's speech but this didn't sound quite right...
"....the West must help the conservative Muslims of the Middle East, none of whom approve of takfīr, to ban it, criminalize it, and shut it down."
Maybe it depend how we define conservative but it seems to me that conservative Saudis do approve of takfir. Wahabbis certainly do. What's lacking in the Arab world is powerful voices for tolerance.
Posted by: dh | May 15 2016 18:18 utc | 8
What took the State Department so long? Trouble between the bestest of buddies?
Posted by: kafkananda | May 15 2016 19:47 utc | 9
My favorite example of Israeli petty autocratic behavior: The Palestinian keffiyeh is a gender-neutral chequered black and white scarf (like Arafat used to wear). The Gap, of informal clothing fame, briefly carried the keffiyeh, which was popular w young people as a means of showing solidarity w the Palestinians. You can imagine the hissy fit that Israel threw.
Posted by: Penelope | May 15 2016 20:14 utc | 10
@ 4 Thierry Meyssan says:
We are therefore forced to admit that this war is being cultivated from the exterior, and that it will last as long as soldiers are sent to die
hey Thierry, no shit!!! and anyway, who's we?
fucking Thierry was telling us not sooo long ago that peace in Syria was imminent. and he's constantly played the 'Obama has his hands tied' card. i think the dude has a crush on Barry.
fortunately, every now and then somebody comes along to spell it out (for the umpteenth time) what the fuck is going on. somebody like Bernie.
Bernie Suarez, that is.
Posted by: john | May 15 2016 20:20 utc | 11
Okie Farmer @ 4,
"So we must understand the exterior reasons which continue to maintain it. Then, and only then, can we elaborate a strategy which will spare lives."
But I think we DO understand the reasons for the Syrian war. Powerful oligarchs have corrupted enough govts and others to make effective their war against any element of civilization which opposes them in their project of a world feudalism in which they are kings. They protect the Saudis & Qataris, therefore empowering them to recruit & pay the jihadi soldiers. They are further directly aided by forces like the CIA, who work directly for Wall Street.
Is it more complicated than that? To be sure, the young jihadis would be less susceptible if they lived in countries w good economic opportunities. But the lack of such countries is directly attributable to Wall Street's economic neoliberalism, and control of the money supply in all developing countries thru the Fed/IMF system. And of course countries which succeed are attacked-- like Libya.
Everything really seems to come back to the desire to produce death, failure, weakness and chaos everywhere so that the oligarchs can enforce the order that they want. They are purposely taking down the economy of the EU and the US for the same reason.
Posted by: Penelope | May 15 2016 20:41 utc | 12
@4/7 thanks okie.. only comment that stood out to me in theirry's article - "there is nothing to be gained by negotiation with people who are being paid to maintain the conflict."
didn't watch the video, but agree with dh @8.. folks can entertain anything they want about what it means to be conservative islam, but wahabbism and takfirism is a complete aberration.. ain't conservative.. whackjob is more like it.. until the west acknowledges this, instead of hoping to use this as some type of mercenary force in the areas they want regime change, we are all in big trouble..
Posted by: james | May 15 2016 20:44 utc | 13
@12 penelope.. i agree with you.. meanwhile - more whack jobs with their whack job view on 'conservative islam' will continue to pour into syria - and they will be labeled 'moderate' by the west.. that is called pouring fuel on a fire.. charles lister would approve.. military contractors/suppliers will also approve.. western msm will support it all too.. western politicians will also continue to approve it.. pathetic..
Posted by: james | May 15 2016 20:48 utc | 14
dh @ 8:
" ... Maybe it [depends on] how we define conservative but it seems to me that conservative Saudis do approve of takfir. Wahabbis certainly do. What's lacking in the Arab world is powerful voices for tolerance."
How do you know that such "voices" don't already exist? It's not necessarily in the interests of Western media to report stories about people of different faiths or ethnic backgrounds working together, co-existing peacefully and supporting one another?
If a country is oppressed, brainwashed and terrorised for long enough with extremist Wahhabi ideology - and Saudi Arabia has existed in its present form since the 1930s - then Western judgements of how "progressive" or "conservative" the country's society is become irrelevant. No-one can know what people in that country really want or need: they will be too afraid to say what they think and will always tell you what they know their rulers want them to say; and when their own needs have been suppressed for too long, they may not really know what it is they need to rebuild their society as a democratic one.
Posted by: Jen | May 15 2016 23:28 utc | 15
@okie farmer | May 15, 2016 2:00:07 PM | 7
An important speech by Chas Freeman
http://chasfreeman.net/americas-continuing-misadventures-in-the-middle-east/
No kidding. Masterful.
Posted by: MRW | May 15 2016 23:30 utc | 16
@dh | May 15, 2016 2:18:23 PM | 8
@7 I was OK with most of Freeman's speech but this didn't sound quite right..."....the West must help the conservative Muslims of the Middle East, none of whom approve of takfīr, to ban it, criminalize it, and shut it down."
I think your issue is with your understanding of “conservative Muslims.”
Conservative doesn’t mean fundamentalist whackos. It means deeply religious. Freeman prefaces that paragraph with a correct statement that most Americans don’t understand as a basic tenet of Islam, “Islam stipulates that there can be no compulsion in religion."
Posted by: MRW | May 15 2016 23:36 utc | 17
The link in #16 added a blockquote to the end of the URL and therefore is broken.
The correct link to Freeman’s talk is in #7, and I’ll correct #16 here.
http://chasfreeman.net/americas-continuing-misadventures-in-the-middle-east/
Posted by: MRW | May 15 2016 23:38 utc | 18
@15 I'm sure there are such voices. But we don't hear them because they are afraid to speak. And not just in Saudi Arabia. The wahabis intimidate muslims everywhere.
@17 You are right. Conservative has different meanings depending where and when it's used. Freeman is referring to devout muslims....not fundamentalist whackos. It would be nice if the devout muslims started cleaning house.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 0:03 utc | 19
It's irritating when a Nakba-denying, non-semitic, arab-hating Jew resumes whining about Holocaust-denial and anti-semitism - merely to deflect attention from his own lethal brand of anti-semitism toward (senitic) arabs in Jewish-occupied Palestine.
Give that man a Piece Prize for his Palestinian Piece Process!!
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 16 2016 2:12 utc | 20
Hoarsewhisperer | May 15, 2016 10:12:56 PM | 21
"lethal brand of anti-semitism toward (senitic) arabs"
That is such an important point for understanding the Middle East:
Jews, Arabs, Palestinians, Saudis, Syrians, Iranian mullahs, ISIS, al-Qaeda, Sunnis, Shia, Alawites, Wahhabis, Salafis, Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrahi, Druze -- all of these people with roots in the ME are Semites, linguistically and genetically. Descendants of Shem.
And the reason this is so important is that it means the ME mess is one big 3500 year internecine Semite punch-up -- always has been, always will be. To analyze what's going on at any given point in time, you have to assess which Semite group hates which other Semite groups the most -- analyzing the balance of Semite hatreds. Of course, Yisrael is the master at playing this game and has been able to survive by playing one Semite faction against another. Right now it suits them to tag-team with KSA, tomorrow it will be Egypt. It's like playing musical Semites instead of musical chairs.
If the West and Russia would get out, and if you could wave a magic wand and make the iJews and their nukes disappear, it wouldn't improve a thing. You would be left with all the other Semite factions fighting each other over Palestine, Syria, probably the whole area. (The Turks, Kurds, and Persians are a separate group who have their own genetic psychoses and issues with Semites that exacerbate violence in the ME Semite-swamp.)
I mean, look at the photos of Aleppo, Homs, Ghouta. Look at the body count from Syria. For all of the shit the Palestinians suffer at the hands of the iJews, the Palestinians have a cake-walk compared to the internecine Semite blood-bath in Syria. Take away the boot of Yisrael and Hamas and Fatah would be at each others throats, and the people would suffer even more.
During the Middle Ages it must have looked to the Semites like the ME was being destroyed by the invading Christians/Europeans. Now it looks like it's the Semites themselves who are going to destroy the ME, probably by a final blow-out of nukes, chemical weapons, and biological weapons. Personally, I find the genetic roots of this cluster fuck depressing. Semitic war without end.
So, yeah. In this more accurate and expanded meaning of "Semite," guess I'd have to consider m'self an anti-semite. It goes with being a misanthrope.
@15 jen.. yes - depends on how one defines conservatism.. bottom line is those whack job wahabbis and takifis are not going to listen to anything other then their insane puritanical, fanatical ideology preachers.. anyone who is 'moderate' or 'conservative' will have there heads chopped off..
and one can forget about the idea of anyone addressing these whackjobs directly due the intimidation and fear they evoke.. @15 dh's idea of someone addressing it - ain't going to happen inside that culture.. has to come from outside of it.. i think the west is dealing with a monster here and it is unwilling to address it as it is hoping it will somehow go away.. it is going to get worse.. sorry, but that is how i see it.. even if syria were to fall apart of overcome this craziness - it isn't going away.. it is being exported 24/7 in the schools and teachings found in the madrassas and mosques throughout the muslim world at present, which include the west with it's open immigration policy... we are in trouble.. that is how i see it..
Posted by: james | May 16 2016 5:24 utc | 22
Mainstream Christians view the snake-waving and talking-in-tongues Christian sects as extreme.
Let’s assume for a minute that’s accurate, and let’s assume they’re evil. Which they are not, but let’s assume it, and further, assume they threaten western civilization.
This is how the Wahhabists and Takfiris are viewed by regular Islamic-religion folk.
So, @james | May 16, 2016 1:24:49 AM | 23, this statement of yours,
it is being exported 24/7 in the schools and teachings found in the madrassas and mosques throughout the muslim world at present, which include the west with it's open immigration policy
is over the top and far too broad.
Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 7:37 utc | 23
james @23
Great pr job for Fear Inc. Best is to look beyond the MSM headlines and many [most] blogs about Arabs and Muslims.
The scourge of nationalism, a direct result to decades of globalization, is spreading across the globe. Islamophobia was introduced by Israel and neocons in the instant of the 9/11 attacks on the US. Ask Ariel Sharon and Bibi Netanyahu ..
Yes, Saudi Arabia has spread extreme Wahhabism through madrasses for decades across Syria, Lebanon, SE Asea and Western Europe. Most Sunni Muslims do not live and the Arabian peninsula, so I agree with MRW on that point.
Geert Wilders is funded and supported by Daniel Pipes & Co. from the United States. Similarly, Ayaan Hirsi Ali got her start in Dutch politics which accelerated with a break-through after cooperating with Theo van Gogh on his film Submission.
Denis @ # 22
Yes, it is actually amazing how many people just don't get it
. . . "What do ya fuckin' mean I'm an anti-Semite ?? I support the Palestinians"
It's during the (usually) stunned silence that ensues while they try to digest / process that, that's when I'm able to get in the fact that the original inhabitants are the Semites & the vast majority of the Jews are in fact
Eastern-Northern-Central-European interlopers. It is actually a very powerful tactic & often allows the thin edge of the wedge to be driven in, especially with ones with half a brain. That's been my general experience anyway.
Cheers
Chris in Ch-Ch
Posted by: kiwicris | May 16 2016 11:05 utc | 25
@20 Chipher
I think this is (at least) your second reference to The Conquest of Bread. Inspired me to make my own copy. About half way through.
Posted by: jfl | May 16 2016 13:08 utc | 26
@25 I read james' post @23 a few times and I don't think he's fearmongering. He's obviously talking about whackos and nutjobs and not mainstream muslim folk.
There's no denying that wahabism has been spread through madrassas and mosques and it has found its way to Europe. A certain kind of young muslim finds it very attractive which is why they go to Iraq and Syria to kill infidels.
Perhaps that's the reason odious people like Wilders and Pipes find an audience.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 13:25 utc | 27
@25 Oui
The Arab as EVIL theme is a classic example of cultural conditioning. It has been developed as an essential component of the long-term narrative in regard to the mid-east. Its roots, however, predate 9/11; the narrative having already permeated western consciousness by that point. It had been instilled by the vilification of Arabs and Muslims in MSM, most notably Hollywood. Curiously, this process began in earnest in the early 70s, a time of major conflict between Arabs and Israelis.
‘Death to the infidels!’ Why it’s time to fix Hollywood’s problem with Muslims
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/mar/08/death-to-infidels-time-to-fix-hollywoods-problem-muslims
Throughout its history, American cinema has employed a lamentably narrow set of stereotypes about Arabs and Muslims. “They’ve been the most vilified group in the history of Hollywood,” says the academic and author Jack Shaheen. His book Reel Bad Arabs surveys some 1,200 depictions of Arabs and Muslims in the movies. By his estimation, roughly 97% are unfavourable, coloured by orientalist myths, racist demonising and xenophobic paranoia. “At most, three dozen or so had balance, or what I would call positive images. In the rest of them, Arabs are either terrorists or shady sheikhs or people you would not want to associate with. Those images continue to pervade our psyches.”
Surely the confluence of the demonization of Arabs in juxtaposition to the Israeli./Arab conflict is merely a coincidence. After all, its not like the jews own Hollywood or anything. >>> Oh wait…
Posted by: pantaraxia | May 16 2016 13:49 utc | 28
Fisk at the Indy says Hariri blown up by the Saudis for stealing Iraq war dough.
The Saudis and those criminals,Israel,I bet.
I said something along that nature 11? years ago.
sheesh.
Actually my track record is pretty good,excerpt for 08 when I voted for Obomba,the biggest disappointment in American history,bar none.I even went to his pre inaug ceremony in DC.What a maroon.(me)
Posted by: dahoit | May 16 2016 14:03 utc | 29
dh @28
read the ending: "which include the west with it's open immigration policy... we are in trouble.. that is how i see it.."
A telling argument of fear used by the anti-immigration parties in Europe and populists like Geert Wilders.
The audience of young Muslims in the West is created by foreign policy of the U.S. and in particular the old-colomial powers France and Great Britain in the Middle East. From the ending of World War I and the Sykes-Picot agreement until the episode in the 21st century of the 9/11 aftermath, invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Muammar al-Qaddafi and Bashar al-Assad [delayed].
U.S. hypocrisy of a nuclear Israel and the circumventing of International law by establishing Jewish settlements on Palestinian land.
Just today wrote briefly about it ...
○ 'Old Warriors Never Die' ... Bill Clinton Should Just Fade Away!
Interesting what Bill said about the Israeli war crimes in Gaza, Egypt's president Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood .... and Hillary's role in stopping the hostilities. LMAO, what a load of bunk!
@dahoit #30
Too sophisticated to have been executed by the Saudi Arabs alone ...
@31 James will have to explain the difference between 'open' immigration and regulated immigration.
Yes the West has a lot to answer for historically but you can't deny that we have been tolerant recently. The UK in particular has been very accommodating towards its former colonial citizens.
So why do SOME young muslims feel the need to go off and kill infidels? That’s the big question. No doubt some of them are disaffected or don’t feel at home in the West. Could simply be a hormonal imbalance in some cases. Whatever the reason wahabism does nothing to calm them down.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 14:28 utc | 32
@31 I notice you mention 'the overthrow of Muammar al-Qaddafi and Bashar al-Assad [delayed].' as factors in muslim anger. Wasn't it radical muslims who overthrew Ghaddafi?
Aren't ISIS and al-Nusra fighting the secular government of Assad?
The West and Israel certainly take advantage of their eagerness to kill each other.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 14:39 utc | 33
@dh #34
Minor element: Overthrow in Libys due to US and NATO bombing at the behest of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Calling regime change new R2P policy. Just historical facts, no opinion.
Jihadists and arms [Qatar funded transport of thousands of tons of Libyan weapons] into northern Syria across Sultan Erdogan's "open border policy." See the articles about HRC, Bill Clinton Foundation and the Muslim Brotherhood triangle Qatar, Turkey and Egypt's Morsi.
@35 Yes Sarkozy and Clinton provided the air cover for militants in Eastern Libya who hated Ghaddafi. I'm not sure who supplied the arms and pick-up trucks. Muslim Brotherhood?
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 15:16 utc | 35
Some Libya news just in.
Seems there are still a few things in Libya left to bomb....
"The US and other world powers have said they are ready to arm Libya's UN-backed unity government to help it fight the self-styled Islamic State (IS) group.
Speaking in Vienna, US Secretary of State John Kerry said world powers would back Libya in seeking exemption from a UN arms embargo.
He said IS was a "new threat" to Libya and it was "imperative" it was stopped."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36300525
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 15:38 utc | 36
Non Jews existing in the Middle East are much like "Indians" who lived (for thousands of years) in the land that became the USA. These peoples (savages) are to be eradicated so that progress (Israel & Corporate Business) can occur.
Colonialism Redux. It has never really halted. It just occurs in different places. It is currently disguised as a War On Terror.
Few are aware of the grand Middle East scheme, even though it's been revealed to us in the Yinon Plan and later in the PNAC Plan.
Ask a friend or acquaintance if he's ever heard of the Yinon Plan.
They don't even know about Bill O'Reilly, the Loofah, The Falafel and the fantastic soapy boobs of and Andrea Mackris.
Posted by: fastfreddy | May 16 2016 15:39 utc | 37
All the considerations and ‘talk’ about different ‘identities’ is made up to distract, divide and rule, and impose. To draw away attention from, or circumvent objection to, or justify war. To the detriment of peace, state-hood, and so on.
It’s the oldest tool in the book!
Everyone is supposed to argue and be passionate about gay identity, aka ppls sex lives, women’s role, religious adherence and schisms (but not at home in the West), the close relation of religion to terrorism (there is none..), ethnicity as some kind of intrinsic characteristic that hard-wires ppls brains, the legitimizing of endless war between Jews and ‘muslims’ (with Israel and the US supporting ISIL-Daesh…) or between Sunni and Shia (engineered and recent) and on and on.
This leads to endless dicussions about the difference between peoples, the purity or ‘belonging’ to certain ‘races - ethnicities ..’ or being labelled ‘Shia’ etc. Or ‘European’ for example. The bad oh-so-horrible behavior of some ethnically-religiously-racially defined groups, anything will do (ex. sexual agression by Muslims, a totally minor topic..) or conversely the ‘strong stand’ made by ethnic minorities …but not, of course, where long-entrenched racism is of any importance, e.g. in the US against blacks. Nor of course directed backwards to justify for ex. the Holocaust. Oh the horrors! So now...err.. it must be denied that Palestinians have the same genetic make-up as Israeli jews, that can't possibly be so! The contradictions are mind-boggling.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/25/medicalscience.genetics
You’d think you were back in 1850’s scientific definitions. Which of course had a straighforward colonialist aim, and were cruder in their representation.
There are many sites out there that peddle such BS. These ppl are stooges for the PTB, and seek to distract, from for ex. taxes, international finance, corporate power, military, war, murder, climate change, etc.
Posted by: Noirette | May 16 2016 15:44 utc | 38
Well, well, well! Even the CIA Inspector General took part in the cover-up.
The Hill: CIA watchdog ‘accidentally destroyed’ copy of ‘torture report’:
The CIA’s inspector general has accidentally deleted its only copy of a controversial Senate report about the agency’s history of brutal interrogation techniques, opening a new front in the long battle over the document.
Posted by: lysias | May 16 2016 15:48 utc | 39
That Hill article continues:
Like many federal agencies across Washington, the spy agency watchdog was handed a copy of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s full, 6,700-page report about the CIA’s former methods shortly after it was completed. The full version of the report remains classified, however a 500-page executive summary was released to the public in late 2014.But at some point last summer, both the electronic copy and a hard disk were destroyed, the watchdog told Congress.
I wonder if the Senate still has its own copy or copies. After all, Republicans got the majority in the Senate after the 2014 elections.
I’m reminded of how, during the Kosovo War, when I had a part-time job transcribing CNN, they never referred to the U.S. bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade without calling it the “accidental bombing”.
Posted by: lysias | May 16 2016 15:50 utc | 40
blues,
Not sure if you came across Sputnik
Brian Becker podcast LOUD & CLEAR The Ghost of Sykes-Picot Still Haunts the Middle East a Century OnPosted by: Jack Smith | May 16 2016 16:09 utc | 41
@dh
Piquant detail when the Dutch set up a covert military action to extract a royal package from Sirte, Libya in 2011 ...
○ Libya TV shows captured Dutch navy helicopter crew
The package was royal princess Mabel Wisse-Smit.
@dh
Miss Mabel Wisse-Smit gets around: slept with Dutch gangster Klaas Bruinsma, involved in the illegal arms trade into Serbia, slept with Muhamed Sacirbegovic a former Bosnian UN ambassador and now US citizen and fugitive from Bosnian justice, represented the Soros Foundation and ended up marrying Dutch Prince Friso of Orange-Nassau. Lately she has become a widow.
@44 Hmmm Princess Mabel would seem to have plenty of excitement in her life. I wonder if Hillary is jealous.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 16:34 utc | 44
@24 mrw, @dh and @oui
that 'open' immigration comment probably should have been left off given the confusion it caused.. everything else sticks.. what i was implying is that these folks being taught in these madrassahs and mosques around the world are not being screened via immigration due the fact they swallow this wahabbism poison..
in fact, the west hasn't realized it has a huge problem with wahabbism! these folks are crazy enough to think that suicide bombing others who don't share there faith is okay.. i read just the other day a group of about 20 folks in iraq trying to escape from an isis controlled area of iraq.. punishment? - they had there feet cut off.. i wish i was kidding.. this ideology driving isis - wahabbism/takifism - is one sick ideology..
Posted by: james | May 16 2016 16:37 utc | 45
@46 Your mistake was mentioning immigration at all james. It's become synonymous with racism in some quarters. You even have to be careful with words like 'screening'.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 16:45 utc | 46
@james #46
Fair enough ... agreed.
The Wahhabist regime of Saudi Arabia buys plenty of sophisticated weapons from France, US and the UK. Smart move by Obama is to open the market with Iran for smilar military goodies in the coming decade. Let the pieces lie where they may fall, the tinder box will explode one day.
>> ‘Death to the infidels!’ Why it’s time to
>> fix Hollywood’s problem with Muslims
Gee, is someone saying we should feature more Russian and Chinese villains??
In the context of the "pivot" and Cold War 2.0, the timing is a little late. But, it'll do. Thank you, Guardian?
Posted by: dumbass | May 16 2016 16:59 utc | 48
Who knew!
Panama Papers reveal George Soros' deep money ties to secretive weapons, intel investment firm
Soros Capital set up an offshore company in the Cayman Islands for the purpose of investing private equity with the Carlyle Group, alongside members of Saudi Arabia’s Bin Laden family. Carlyle’s partners include ex-heads of state and former CIA officials. The private equity partnership specializes in buying and selling weapons manufacturing and intelligence gathering companies with government and military contracts and it also uses secret offshore companies to conduct business.
Posted by: shadyl | May 16 2016 17:09 utc | 50
http://crooksandliars.com/2007/08/01/oreillys-statement-after-he-settled-the-andrea-mackris-case
Posted by: okie farmer | May 16 2016 17:46 utc | 51
@james | May 16, 2016 12:37:44 PM | 46,
I agree with you about Wahhabism, Takfiris. (Did you read the Chas Freeman article okie farmer linked to in @7? Do.)
Wahhabism is a bastardized whacked-up sect invented in 1800 AD by a bunch of tribes running loose in the Saudi desert. It has nothing to do with regular Islam. Zero. Other than the claim that it does. They are seriously off-the-wall.
As for takfiri. Freeman says this. Freeman was US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia and speaks Arabic. In my view, he is one of the smartest and most astute foreign service officers to have served the country:
Islam stipulates that there can be no compulsion in religion. The violation of this principle through takfīr [تكفير] – the excommunication of others as non-believers deserving of death for apostasy – is at the heart of the warped version of Islam that Da`esh and other Islamist terrorists profess. It is takfīr that provides the rationale for murder on behalf of political grievances and resentments. In the interest of its own security and well-being as well as that of the region, the West must help the conservative Muslims of the Middle East, none of whom approve of takfīr, to ban it, criminalize it, and shut it down.
Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 17:48 utc | 52
@james | May 16, 2016 12:37:44 PM | 46,
Our problem is that the junior advising Obama don’t know Islam or the history of Islam, and in the interest of getting Assad out of office are supporting these nutjobs which they refer to as opposition rebels. !?!
Obama tried to put Chas Freeman on his National Security Council in Feb 2009 and the rabid pro-Israeli faction in DC went postal smearing him and denigrating his reputation. Because they knew that Freeman would talk some sense into him about handling the ME, and Israel.
Read his speech.
Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 17:54 utc | 53
juniors. (like Susan Rice, Samantha Powere, Ben Rhodes.)
Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 17:55 utc | 54
@james | May 16, 2016 12:37:44 PM | 46,
Putin understands the value of defanging ISIS and the takfiris, if Obama doesn’t.
Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 17:56 utc | 55
@53 I would prefer the conservative Muslims, whoever they are, do something about the nutjobs themselves. Any help from the West is bound to be seen as interference.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 18:18 utc | 56
Freeman's appraisal is somewhat of an improvement, but he falls far short of what would be considered Right and Truthful. And in reality his views matter not--the speech is merely made to promote his latest book--and are ignored by those in power as proven by their actions.
Posted by: karlof1 | May 16 2016 18:40 utc | 57
@54 With all due respect to Chas Freeman I think he's behind the times. The Saudis are scared stiff. The takfiris know all about the gambling and whoring and drinking in London so they get paid to go decapitate infidels in Syria. What we have now is a giant protection racket.
And the West is no help. As fast as Putin and Assad kill them the US sends in another arms shipment.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 18:42 utc | 58
P @ 12: Good take P, and no, I don't think it's much more complicated than you opined on. World history keeps proving the insecurity of the ruling classes.
Posted by: ben | May 16 2016 18:44 utc | 59
@dh
The US under Jimmy Carter and the Brzezinski doctrine asked the nutjobs from the extreme Wahhabist regime of Saudi Arabia to help defeat the commies in Afghanistan in 1979. Today these nutjobs are fighting the West's proxy wars in Libya and Syria. Just a bit of blowback now and then. :-(
○ World In Turmoil: Role of Brzezinski and Albright, Our Democrats
○ CENTO: Cold War Boundaries In Caspian Sea Region
The Central Treaty Organization (CENTO) , originally known as the Baghdad Pact, was formed in 1955 by Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey, and the United Kingdom. See map here. The United States supported the pact and used it as a strategy to endorse anti communism and provide aid to these four Middle Eastern countries. Iraq eventually pulled out of the pact in 1958.
@dh | May 16, 2016 2:42:25 PM | 59,
That’s rather dismissive of Freeman’s experience.
As for this:
The Saudis are scared stiff. The takfiris know all about the gambling and whoring and drinking in London so they get paid to go decapitate infidels in Syria
Big whoop. Everyone knows about the gambling and whoring and drinking. And it isn’t just London. It’s Marbella, Spain, and all over the continent. The takfiris aren’t holding any state secrets in that regard.
And this:
As fast as Putin and Assad kill them the US sends in another arms shipment.
Exactly. The US created ISIS.
Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 19:16 utc | 62
@61 Well the last thing the Wahabi regime wants is for the takfiris to come home. So they pay them to stay away.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 19:17 utc | 63
@59. I'm sure Freeman is experienced in Middle Eastern ways. I just think he's behind the times.
And maybe something of a dreamer. If I knew who he meant by 'conservative muslims' I might revise my opinion.
My point about the whoring and drinking etc. is that the Saudis are seen as hypocrites. It's an amazing balancing act they maintain over their own population.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 19:24 utc | 64
They really don't want that report to get out: Appeals Court: Senate's CIA Torture Report Not Public Record [subject to disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act].
Posted by: lysias | May 16 2016 19:32 utc | 65
@46 spot on james, i really do not think people realise how badly all mosques have been infected with wahabbi poison !!! Amazing how money just gets you everything because they have bought their influence follow zionisms footsteps. In my eyes they are both as bad as each other
@ dh 59
Yepp and the last time someone tried to pick on the Saudis well we all know how that turned out. He was a US puppet himself and learned first hand what that protection racket
I think Iraq has been damaged by the saudis n kuwaitis more then anything. I think the palestinians have been hurt more by the egyptians and the jordanians then anyone else.
Israel and the US obviously play a massive toll but not of their actions would work if they didn't have sooo many obedient lap dogs in the ME
Posted by: Deebo | May 16 2016 19:33 utc | 66
@ 63 MRW
That is why ISIS = Is U.S. = ISU.S. (with a little help from friendly Tel Aviv). Ever wonder where the strategy and generalmanship that allowed such rapid takeover of Iraq and Syria? it wasn't from any local militia or command structure, there were highly placed well funded command decisions and structures behind Daesh's performance - who would have that kind of modus operandi in that part of the world.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | May 16 2016 19:42 utc | 67
dh,
I would prefer the conservative Muslims, whoever they are
Why don’t you email Chas Freeman and ask.
Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 19:58 utc | 68
@Formerly T-Bear | May 16, 2016 3:42:20 PM | 68,
IIRC, Colonel Lang said they came from Saddam's former Iraqi army that Bush tore up in 2003, and left them to flounder with no jobs, no nothing. Destitute, and with families to support.
Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 20:01 utc | 69
MRW @ 53
Chas Freeman also said:
The mass murders Osama[bin Laden] contrived inflamed passions that spurred American political leaders to set aside the constraints of the United States constitution and laws. There has been serious erosion in American civil liberties amidst popular disdain for the rule of law both at home and abroad. This is what paved the way for the horrors of Abu Ghraib, 'extraordinary rendition,' and 'enhanced interrogation techniques'—otherwise known as 'cruel and unusual punishment,' 'kidnapping,' and 'torture.'
sounds like Chas took the bait, to me.
Posted by: john | May 16 2016 20:04 utc | 70
@john | May 16, 2016 4:04:49 PM | 72,
You think so? Or was he working off the perceived wisdom to make his greater point?
Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 20:11 utc | 71
@john 72
He’s a highly seasoned, circumspect, and experienced diplomat. His sentences are loaded with diplo-speak.
Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 20:14 utc | 72
@69 "Why don’t you email Chas Freeman and ask."
Thanks for the suggestion but I don't think I should be emailing Chas with such a trivial question. It all comes down to his definition of conservative anyway. He'll probably tell me about King Faisal or some wonderful old Sufis he met somewhere. I doubt if he's ever been in the Playboy Club or come face to face with a knife-wielding head chopper.
Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 20:18 utc | 73
MRW says:
He’s a highly seasoned, circumspect, and experienced diplomat. His sentences are loaded with diplo-speak
yes, precisely.
and do check out his resumé.
Posted by: john | May 16 2016 20:26 utc | 74
@47 dh / oui @48 / @ mrw.
thanks guys.. i have a busy day today and not able to respond as quickly as i would like.
i agree with you dh and feel we share much in common in how i am viewing this..
@53 mrw. i didn't read chas freemans comments in the link.. for some reason i have a sketchy memory on the role he has played in the us admin and etc and i skipped it, although it sounds as though i agree with much of what he says. that is a very good quote from him in your link, so i will read the article.. thanks for being consistent with me and in trying to expand my understanding in a more diplomatic framework.
@54 mrw.. i agree with you.. thanks for re-jogging my memory on that... will do.. thanks.
@55 mrw - horrible loser juniors... what a shame, but a continuation of us foreign policy which is clearly stuck in a rut for however many years..
@56 mrw - agree with you.
@57 dh - agree..
@58 karlof1.. that's true too which makes it more of the same in many respects and more of a shame.. self promotion - one of the inherent costs of living in a capitalist society... it has gotten worse.
@59 dh - another example where i am in complete agreement with you..
@61 oui.. more people need to understand this history and the unintended consequences of it -long term..
great conservation on this everyone, even if it is off tangent of b's post.. i really feel this conversation needs to be much bigger.. thanks everyone for engaging in it with me and others here..
Posted by: james | May 16 2016 21:58 utc | 75
@MRW - #55
Even "seniors" like Dennis Ross (aipac and dual citizen with loyalty to Israel) and William Burns (has a chip on his shoulder from the Lebanon barracks bombing in the 80s where he lost a good friend) still blaming the ayatollahs of Shia Iran and thus no trust while being a Sr diplomat and top negotiator! First class hypocrites destroying the greater ME to favor the mob (Soviet era Jewish immigrants) in Israel. HRC the neocon in disguise as a Democrat.
How are they going to hide behind "freedom of the press" when the other side attacks them about similar stuff?
Posted by: Amir | May 17 2016 4:20 utc | 77
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran-rhodes-idUSKCN0Y725J
The White House confirmed on Monday that Ben Rhodes, the deputy national security adviser, would not testify at a House oversight panel on Iran on Tuesday.
The panel had asked Rhodes to appear after a New York Times article had suggested that he had manipulated the public debate over the Iran deal.
Posted by: okie farmer | May 17 2016 8:45 utc | 78
William Joseph Burns (born April 11, 1956)[1] was a career Foreign Service Officer. He was Ambassador of the United States to the Russian Federation from 2005 until 2008, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs from 2008 to 2011, and United States Deputy Secretary of State from 2011 to 2014.
He retired from the U.S. Foreign Service on November 3, 2014, after a 33-year diplomatic career with the highest rank in the Foreign Service, Career Ambassador, and is currently the president of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, the oldest international affairs think tank.
Posted by: okie farmer | May 17 2016 10:50 utc | 79
@ dh | 36
@35 Yes Sarkozy and Clinton provided the air cover for militants in Eastern Libya who hated Ghaddafi. I'm not sure who supplied the arms and pick-up trucks. Muslim Brotherhood?
The exact same usual suspects who are supplying arms to Syria's terrorists now.
@ MRW |56
Putin understands the value of defanging ISIS and the takfiris, if Obama doesn’t.
Why would Obama defang his own proxy terrorists? He wants them alive and kicking (hence fake ceasefire to stop their routing by SAA and co) and arms them to the teeth. US and alies supplied over 200.000 tons of weapons during those 5 years, and transported tens of thousands headchoppers from over 100 countries to Syria.
Posted by: Harry | May 17 2016 13:16 utc | 80
Jihadis getting low on ammunition?
"The opposition said they could not continue amid mounting violence around the northern city of Aleppo and stalled aid deliveries."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36310876
Posted by: dh | May 17 2016 15:47 utc | 81
...
Jews, Arabs, Palestinians, Saudis, Syrians, Iranian mullahs, ISIS, al-Qaeda, Sunnis, Shia, Alawites, Wahhabis, Salafis, Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrahi, Druze -- all of these people with roots in the ME are Semites, linguistically and genetically. Descendants of Shem.
And the reason this is so important is that it means the ME mess is one big 3500 year internecine Semite punch-up -- always has been, always will be. To analyze what's going on at any given point in time, you have to assess which Semite group hates which other Semite groups the most -- analyzing the balance of Semite hatreds. Of course, Yisrael is the master at playing this game and has been able to survive by playing one Semite faction against another. Right now it suits them to tag-team with KSA, tomorrow it will be Egypt. It's like playing musical Semites instead of musical chairs.
If the West and Russia would get out, and if you could wave a magic wand and make the iJews and their nukes disappear, it wouldn't improve a thing...
...
Posted by: Denis | May 15, 2016 11:11:20 PM | 22
Your long-winded Potpourri of confused and confusing supremacist "Israeli" Identity Politics claptrap is cheap, nasty, and "Israeli" (dishonest) in nature and intent.
The Palestinians were minding their own business, working hard, and were friendly toward the (few) Jews among them when the Jewish Deniers of (the (origins of) their favourite Holocaust arrived in Palestine and began killing, maiming, and dispossessing Palestinians.
Grow up.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 17 2016 16:09 utc | 82
'Israel to release Duma arsonist from prison' from the Iranian press tv site
An Israeli court has ruled for the release of Meir Ettinger, an Israeli settler who was behind the burning to death of a Palestinian family in the West Bank.Ettinger will be freed on June 1, a court ruled on Tuesday, after being detained for eight months without being charged for leading a terror group.
The ruling came as the Israeli Security Agency decided not to extend Ettinger’s detention.
The 24-year-old settler was arrested in August 2015 for leading Israeli attackers who firebombed a Palestinian home and killed three members of the family. The victims were an 18-month-old boy and his parents.
Tried once before at the open thread, typical 'your message has been posted' and then it's not. So I'm guessing its the site.
Check out the grin on Meir Ettinger's face. He's always grinning. Thinking about the Palestinians he's killed I guess. He's from Brooklyn NY. Meir Kahane's grandson.
'Yeah, but we're not as bad as the NAZIs!', all the rest of the Israelis chime in on cue.
I don't believe even they believe that anymore. A whole nation of self-hating Jews. Dangerous.
Posted by: jfl | May 18 2016 9:44 utc | 83
@13 @14 @22 @45
As far as the wars go Wahhabism is the vehicle not the engine. There was a reprint of a good article by William R Polk at consortiumnews.com, Muslim Memories of West’s Imperialism, that lays out the background all in one spot, or two.
Religion is just the channel for the deep-seated rage of the Islamic population of Africa-Middle East-Central Asia at the present time.
The Saudis have been greasing this channel for a long time, as it runs away from their ruthless, greedy, brutal selves and toward the exterior, toward the West, and toward the Shia, who they've been able to tar with the same infidel brush. This is an essential channel to have if you're an extended family of tyrannical despots. And not just the Saudis are, among the Sunni 'royalty'.
But of course the damage was done over hundreds of years by Neolibraconia itself and, with zero change on the horizon in terms of the relationship of the world's Islamic population and Neolibraconia, its still mounting today. People actually do blow themselves up, everyday, in revenge for their collective treatment at the hands of the Neolibraconians and other infidels. The real Saudi masterstroke has been to make sure that it is only Neolibraconia and the Shia, and not Neolibraconia's compradors among the Sunnis - themselves - who suffer the rage of the long-oppressed, predominantly Sunni, Islamic masses.
Madrasses?Nah,its the Hebrew Schools or whatever that scare me,as the graduates are all mad mullahs of Zionist provocation and evil,which makes the justifiable enraged Muslims seem rational by comparison.
Yahoo to pick Lieberman as minister.sheesh.
Posted by: dahoit | May 19 2016 14:52 utc | 85
And West don't worry,Montenegro is now NATO!This little postage stamp of a nation is a pit bull,and will defend Europe from the savage Russian bear.
God,save US from the ziomonsters!
Posted by: dahoit | May 19 2016 15:08 utc | 86
The comments to this entry are closed.
"We have met the enemy and they are us." Pogo
Posted by: ALberto | May 15 2016 14:20 utc | 1