http://www.voltairenet.org/article191712.html
by Thierry Meyssan
Every time the Syrian Arab Army beats the jihadists, new combatants arrive in Syria in their thousands. We are therefore forced to admit that this war is being cultivated from the exterior, and that it will last as long as soldiers are sent to die. So we must understand the exterior reasons which continue to maintain it. Then, and only then, can we elaborate a strategy which will spare lives.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 15 2016 16:41 utc | 4

@4 Thierry likes to talk about the Silk Route but it more or less already exists. The biggest obstacle to East/West trade is Europe agreeing to sanctions on Russia which depends on Kiev agreeing to Minsk2. If the sanctions were dropped trade would follow soon enough.

Posted by: dh | May 15 2016 17:49 utc | 6

@7 I was OK with most of Freeman’s speech but this didn’t sound quite right…
“….the West must help the conservative Muslims of the Middle East, none of whom approve of takfīr, to ban it, criminalize it, and shut it down.”
Maybe it depend how we define conservative but it seems to me that conservative Saudis do approve of takfir. Wahabbis certainly do. What’s lacking in the Arab world is powerful voices for tolerance.

Posted by: dh | May 15 2016 18:18 utc | 8

My favorite example of Israeli petty autocratic behavior: The Palestinian keffiyeh is a gender-neutral chequered black and white scarf (like Arafat used to wear). The Gap, of informal clothing fame, briefly carried the keffiyeh, which was popular w young people as a means of showing solidarity w the Palestinians. You can imagine the hissy fit that Israel threw.

Posted by: Penelope | May 15 2016 20:14 utc | 10

Okie Farmer @ 4,
“So we must understand the exterior reasons which continue to maintain it. Then, and only then, can we elaborate a strategy which will spare lives.”
But I think we DO understand the reasons for the Syrian war. Powerful oligarchs have corrupted enough govts and others to make effective their war against any element of civilization which opposes them in their project of a world feudalism in which they are kings. They protect the Saudis & Qataris, therefore empowering them to recruit & pay the jihadi soldiers. They are further directly aided by forces like the CIA, who work directly for Wall Street.
Is it more complicated than that? To be sure, the young jihadis would be less susceptible if they lived in countries w good economic opportunities. But the lack of such countries is directly attributable to Wall Street’s economic neoliberalism, and control of the money supply in all developing countries thru the Fed/IMF system. And of course countries which succeed are attacked– like Libya.
Everything really seems to come back to the desire to produce death, failure, weakness and chaos everywhere so that the oligarchs can enforce the order that they want. They are purposely taking down the economy of the EU and the US for the same reason.

Posted by: Penelope | May 15 2016 20:41 utc | 12

@12 penelope.. i agree with you.. meanwhile – more whack jobs with their whack job view on ‘conservative islam’ will continue to pour into syria – and they will be labeled ‘moderate’ by the west.. that is called pouring fuel on a fire.. charles lister would approve.. military contractors/suppliers will also approve.. western msm will support it all too.. western politicians will also continue to approve it.. pathetic..

Posted by: james | May 15 2016 20:48 utc | 14

@okie farmer | May 15, 2016 2:00:07 PM | 7

An important speech by Chas Freeman

“>http://chasfreeman.net/americas-continuing-misadventures-in-the-middle-east/
No kidding. Masterful.

Posted by: MRW | May 15 2016 23:30 utc | 16

The link in #16 added a blockquote to the end of the URL and therefore is broken.
The correct link to Freeman’s talk is in #7, and I’ll correct #16 here.
http://chasfreeman.net/americas-continuing-misadventures-in-the-middle-east/

Posted by: MRW | May 15 2016 23:38 utc | 18

It’s irritating when a Nakba-denying, non-semitic, arab-hating Jew resumes whining about Holocaust-denial and anti-semitism – merely to deflect attention from his own lethal brand of anti-semitism toward (senitic) arabs in Jewish-occupied Palestine.
Give that man a Piece Prize for his Palestinian Piece Process!!

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 16 2016 2:12 utc | 20

@15 jen.. yes – depends on how one defines conservatism.. bottom line is those whack job wahabbis and takifis are not going to listen to anything other then their insane puritanical, fanatical ideology preachers.. anyone who is ‘moderate’ or ‘conservative’ will have there heads chopped off..
and one can forget about the idea of anyone addressing these whackjobs directly due the intimidation and fear they evoke.. @15 dh’s idea of someone addressing it – ain’t going to happen inside that culture.. has to come from outside of it.. i think the west is dealing with a monster here and it is unwilling to address it as it is hoping it will somehow go away.. it is going to get worse.. sorry, but that is how i see it.. even if syria were to fall apart of overcome this craziness – it isn’t going away.. it is being exported 24/7 in the schools and teachings found in the madrassas and mosques throughout the muslim world at present, which include the west with it’s open immigration policy… we are in trouble.. that is how i see it..

Posted by: james | May 16 2016 5:24 utc | 22

james @23
Great pr job for Fear Inc. Best is to look beyond the MSM headlines and many [most] blogs about Arabs and Muslims.
The scourge of nationalism, a direct result to decades of globalization, is spreading across the globe. Islamophobia was introduced by Israel and neocons in the instant of the 9/11 attacks on the US. Ask Ariel Sharon and Bibi Netanyahu ..
Yes, Saudi Arabia has spread extreme Wahhabism through madrasses for decades across Syria, Lebanon, SE Asea and Western Europe. Most Sunni Muslims do not live and the Arabian peninsula, so I agree with MRW on that point.
Geert Wilders is funded and supported by Daniel Pipes & Co. from the United States. Similarly, Ayaan Hirsi Ali got her start in Dutch politics which accelerated with a break-through after cooperating with Theo van Gogh on his film Submission.

Posted by: Oui | May 16 2016 8:18 utc | 24

@20 Chipher
I think this is (at least) your second reference to The Conquest of Bread. Inspired me to make my own copy. About half way through.

Posted by: jfl | May 16 2016 13:08 utc | 26

@25 Oui
The Arab as EVIL theme is a classic example of cultural conditioning. It has been developed as an essential component of the long-term narrative in regard to the mid-east. Its roots, however, predate 9/11; the narrative having already permeated western consciousness by that point. It had been instilled by the vilification of Arabs and Muslims in MSM, most notably Hollywood. Curiously, this process began in earnest in the early 70s, a time of major conflict between Arabs and Israelis.
‘Death to the infidels!’ Why it’s time to fix Hollywood’s problem with Muslims
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/mar/08/death-to-infidels-time-to-fix-hollywoods-problem-muslims
Throughout its history, American cinema has employed a lamentably narrow set of stereotypes about Arabs and Muslims. “They’ve been the most vilified group in the history of Hollywood,” says the academic and author Jack Shaheen. His book Reel Bad Arabs surveys some 1,200 depictions of Arabs and Muslims in the movies. By his estimation, roughly 97% are unfavourable, coloured by orientalist myths, racist demonising and xenophobic paranoia. “At most, three dozen or so had balance, or what I would call positive images. In the rest of them, Arabs are either terrorists or shady sheikhs or people you would not want to associate with. Those images continue to pervade our psyches.”
Surely the confluence of the demonization of Arabs in juxtaposition to the Israeli./Arab conflict is merely a coincidence. After all, its not like the jews own Hollywood or anything. >>> Oh wait…

Posted by: pantaraxia | May 16 2016 13:49 utc | 28

dh @28
read the ending: “which include the west with it’s open immigration policy… we are in trouble.. that is how i see it..”
A telling argument of fear used by the anti-immigration parties in Europe and populists like Geert Wilders.
The audience of young Muslims in the West is created by foreign policy of the U.S. and in particular the old-colomial powers France and Great Britain in the Middle East. From the ending of World War I and the Sykes-Picot agreement until the episode in the 21st century of the 9/11 aftermath, invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Muammar al-Qaddafi and Bashar al-Assad [delayed].
U.S. hypocrisy of a nuclear Israel and the circumventing of International law by establishing Jewish settlements on Palestinian land.
Just today wrote briefly about it …
○ ‘Old Warriors Never Die’ … Bill Clinton Should Just Fade Away!
Interesting what Bill said about the Israeli war crimes in Gaza, Egypt’s president Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood …. and Hillary’s role in stopping the hostilities. LMAO, what a load of bunk!

Posted by: Oui | May 16 2016 14:13 utc | 30

@31 James will have to explain the difference between ‘open’ immigration and regulated immigration.
Yes the West has a lot to answer for historically but you can’t deny that we have been tolerant recently. The UK in particular has been very accommodating towards its former colonial citizens.
So why do SOME young muslims feel the need to go off and kill infidels? That’s the big question. No doubt some of them are disaffected or don’t feel at home in the West. Could simply be a hormonal imbalance in some cases. Whatever the reason wahabism does nothing to calm them down.

Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 14:28 utc | 32

@dh #34
Minor element: Overthrow in Libys due to US and NATO bombing at the behest of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Calling regime change new R2P policy. Just historical facts, no opinion.
Jihadists and arms [Qatar funded transport of thousands of tons of Libyan weapons] into northern Syria across Sultan Erdogan’s “open border policy.” See the articles about HRC, Bill Clinton Foundation and the Muslim Brotherhood triangle Qatar, Turkey and Egypt’s Morsi.

Posted by: Oui | May 16 2016 14:47 utc | 34

Some Libya news just in.
Seems there are still a few things in Libya left to bomb….
“The US and other world powers have said they are ready to arm Libya’s UN-backed unity government to help it fight the self-styled Islamic State (IS) group.
Speaking in Vienna, US Secretary of State John Kerry said world powers would back Libya in seeking exemption from a UN arms embargo.
He said IS was a “new threat” to Libya and it was “imperative” it was stopped.”
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36300525

Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 15:38 utc | 36

All the considerations and ‘talk’ about different ‘identities’ is made up to distract, divide and rule, and impose. To draw away attention from, or circumvent objection to, or justify war. To the detriment of peace, state-hood, and so on.
It’s the oldest tool in the book!
Everyone is supposed to argue and be passionate about gay identity, aka ppls sex lives, women’s role, religious adherence and schisms (but not at home in the West), the close relation of religion to terrorism (there is none..), ethnicity as some kind of intrinsic characteristic that hard-wires ppls brains, the legitimizing of endless war between Jews and ‘muslims’ (with Israel and the US supporting ISIL-Daesh…) or between Sunni and Shia (engineered and recent) and on and on.
This leads to endless dicussions about the difference between peoples, the purity or ‘belonging’ to certain ‘races – ethnicities ..’ or being labelled ‘Shia’ etc. Or ‘European’ for example. The bad oh-so-horrible behavior of some ethnically-religiously-racially defined groups, anything will do (ex. sexual agression by Muslims, a totally minor topic..) or conversely the ‘strong stand’ made by ethnic minorities …but not, of course, where long-entrenched racism is of any importance, e.g. in the US against blacks. Nor of course directed backwards to justify for ex. the Holocaust. Oh the horrors! So now…err.. it must be denied that Palestinians have the same genetic make-up as Israeli jews, that can’t possibly be so! The contradictions are mind-boggling.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/25/medicalscience.genetics
You’d think you were back in 1850’s scientific definitions. Which of course had a straighforward colonialist aim, and were cruder in their representation.
There are many sites out there that peddle such BS. These ppl are stooges for the PTB, and seek to distract, from for ex. taxes, international finance, corporate power, military, war, murder, climate change, etc.

Posted by: Noirette | May 16 2016 15:44 utc | 38

That Hill article continues:

Like many federal agencies across Washington, the spy agency watchdog was handed a copy of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s full, 6,700-page report about the CIA’s former methods shortly after it was completed. The full version of the report remains classified, however a 500-page executive summary was released to the public in late 2014.
But at some point last summer, both the electronic copy and a hard disk were destroyed, the watchdog told Congress.

I wonder if the Senate still has its own copy or copies. After all, Republicans got the majority in the Senate after the 2014 elections.
I’m reminded of how, during the Kosovo War, when I had a part-time job transcribing CNN, they never referred to the U.S. bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade without calling it the “accidental bombing”.

Posted by: lysias | May 16 2016 15:50 utc | 40

@dh
Piquant detail when the Dutch set up a covert military action to extract a royal package from Sirte, Libya in 2011 …
○ Libya TV shows captured Dutch navy helicopter crew
The package was royal princess Mabel Wisse-Smit.

Posted by: Oui | May 16 2016 16:18 utc | 42

@44 Hmmm Princess Mabel would seem to have plenty of excitement in her life. I wonder if Hillary is jealous.

Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 16:34 utc | 44

@46 Your mistake was mentioning immigration at all james. It’s become synonymous with racism in some quarters. You even have to be careful with words like ‘screening’.

Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 16:45 utc | 46

>> ‘Death to the infidels!’ Why it’s time to
>> fix Hollywood’s problem with Muslims
Gee, is someone saying we should feature more Russian and Chinese villains??
In the context of the “pivot” and Cold War 2.0, the timing is a little late. But, it’ll do. Thank you, Guardian?

Posted by: dumbass | May 16 2016 16:59 utc | 48

Who knew!
Panama Papers reveal George Soros’ deep money ties to secretive weapons, intel investment firm
Soros Capital set up an offshore company in the Cayman Islands for the purpose of investing private equity with the Carlyle Group, alongside members of Saudi Arabia’s Bin Laden family. Carlyle’s partners include ex-heads of state and former CIA officials. The private equity partnership specializes in buying and selling weapons manufacturing and intelligence gathering companies with government and military contracts and it also uses secret offshore companies to conduct business.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/05/16/panama-papers-reveal-george-soros-deep-money-ties-to-secretive-weapons-intel-firm.html

Posted by: shadyl | May 16 2016 17:09 utc | 50

@james | May 16, 2016 12:37:44 PM | 46,
I agree with you about Wahhabism, Takfiris. (Did you read the Chas Freeman article okie farmer linked to in @7? Do.)
Wahhabism is a bastardized whacked-up sect invented in 1800 AD by a bunch of tribes running loose in the Saudi desert. It has nothing to do with regular Islam. Zero. Other than the claim that it does. They are seriously off-the-wall.
As for takfiri. Freeman says this. Freeman was US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia and speaks Arabic. In my view, he is one of the smartest and most astute foreign service officers to have served the country:

Islam stipulates that there can be no compulsion in religion. The violation of this principle through takfīr [تكفير‎] – the excommunication of others as non-believers deserving of death for apostasy – is at the heart of the warped version of Islam that Da`esh and other Islamist terrorists profess. It is takfīr that provides the rationale for murder on behalf of political grievances and resentments. In the interest of its own security and well-being as well as that of the region, the West must help the conservative Muslims of the Middle East, none of whom approve of takfīr, to ban it, criminalize it, and shut it down.

Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 17:48 utc | 52

juniors. (like Susan Rice, Samantha Powere, Ben Rhodes.)

Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 17:55 utc | 54

@53 I would prefer the conservative Muslims, whoever they are, do something about the nutjobs themselves. Any help from the West is bound to be seen as interference.

Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 18:18 utc | 56

@54 With all due respect to Chas Freeman I think he’s behind the times. The Saudis are scared stiff. The takfiris know all about the gambling and whoring and drinking in London so they get paid to go decapitate infidels in Syria. What we have now is a giant protection racket.
And the West is no help. As fast as Putin and Assad kill them the US sends in another arms shipment.

Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 18:42 utc | 58

@dh
The US under Jimmy Carter and the Brzezinski doctrine asked the nutjobs from the extreme Wahhabist regime of Saudi Arabia to help defeat the commies in Afghanistan in 1979. Today these nutjobs are fighting the West’s proxy wars in Libya and Syria. Just a bit of blowback now and then. 🙁
○ World In Turmoil: Role of Brzezinski and Albright, Our Democrats

Posted by: Oui | May 16 2016 19:14 utc | 60

@dh | May 16, 2016 2:42:25 PM | 59,
That’s rather dismissive of Freeman’s experience.
As for this:

The Saudis are scared stiff. The takfiris know all about the gambling and whoring and drinking in London so they get paid to go decapitate infidels in Syria

Big whoop. Everyone knows about the gambling and whoring and drinking. And it isn’t just London. It’s Marbella, Spain, and all over the continent. The takfiris aren’t holding any state secrets in that regard.
And this:

As fast as Putin and Assad kill them the US sends in another arms shipment.

Exactly. The US created ISIS.

Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 19:16 utc | 62

@59. I’m sure Freeman is experienced in Middle Eastern ways. I just think he’s behind the times.
And maybe something of a dreamer. If I knew who he meant by ‘conservative muslims’ I might revise my opinion.
My point about the whoring and drinking etc. is that the Saudis are seen as hypocrites. It’s an amazing balancing act they maintain over their own population.

Posted by: dh | May 16 2016 19:24 utc | 64

@46 spot on james, i really do not think people realise how badly all mosques have been infected with wahabbi poison !!! Amazing how money just gets you everything because they have bought their influence follow zionisms footsteps. In my eyes they are both as bad as each other
@ dh 59
Yepp and the last time someone tried to pick on the Saudis well we all know how that turned out. He was a US puppet himself and learned first hand what that protection racket
I think Iraq has been damaged by the saudis n kuwaitis more then anything. I think the palestinians have been hurt more by the egyptians and the jordanians then anyone else.
Israel and the US obviously play a massive toll but not of their actions would work if they didn’t have sooo many obedient lap dogs in the ME

Posted by: Deebo | May 16 2016 19:33 utc | 66

dh,

I would prefer the conservative Muslims, whoever they are

Why don’t you email Chas Freeman and ask.

Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 19:58 utc | 68

MRW @ 53
Chas Freeman also said:
The mass murders Osama[bin Laden] contrived inflamed passions that spurred American political leaders to set aside the constraints of the United States constitution and laws. There has been serious erosion in American civil liberties amidst popular disdain for the rule of law both at home and abroad. This is what paved the way for the horrors of Abu Ghraib, ‘extraordinary rendition,’ and ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’—otherwise known as ‘cruel and unusual punishment,’ ‘kidnapping,’ and ‘torture.’
sounds like Chas took the bait, to me.

Posted by: john | May 16 2016 20:04 utc | 70

@john 72
He’s a highly seasoned, circumspect, and experienced diplomat. His sentences are loaded with diplo-speak.

Posted by: MRW | May 16 2016 20:14 utc | 72

MRW says:
He’s a highly seasoned, circumspect, and experienced diplomat. His sentences are loaded with diplo-speak
yes, precisely.
and do check out his resumé.

Posted by: john | May 16 2016 20:26 utc | 74

@MRW – #55
Even “seniors” like Dennis Ross (aipac and dual citizen with loyalty to Israel) and William Burns (has a chip on his shoulder from the Lebanon barracks bombing in the 80s where he lost a good friend) still blaming the ayatollahs of Shia Iran and thus no trust while being a Sr diplomat and top negotiator! First class hypocrites destroying the greater ME to favor the mob (Soviet era Jewish immigrants) in Israel. HRC the neocon in disguise as a Democrat.

Posted by: Oui | May 17 2016 1:23 utc | 76

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran-rhodes-idUSKCN0Y725J
The White House confirmed on Monday that Ben Rhodes, the deputy national security adviser, would not testify at a House oversight panel on Iran on Tuesday.
The panel had asked Rhodes to appear after a New York Times article had suggested that he had manipulated the public debate over the Iran deal.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 17 2016 8:45 utc | 78

@ dh | 36

@35 Yes Sarkozy and Clinton provided the air cover for militants in Eastern Libya who hated Ghaddafi. I’m not sure who supplied the arms and pick-up trucks. Muslim Brotherhood?

The exact same usual suspects who are supplying arms to Syria’s terrorists now.
@ MRW |56

Putin understands the value of defanging ISIS and the takfiris, if Obama doesn’t.

Why would Obama defang his own proxy terrorists? He wants them alive and kicking (hence fake ceasefire to stop their routing by SAA and co) and arms them to the teeth. US and alies supplied over 200.000 tons of weapons during those 5 years, and transported tens of thousands headchoppers from over 100 countries to Syria.

Posted by: Harry | May 17 2016 13:16 utc | 80

…
Jews, Arabs, Palestinians, Saudis, Syrians, Iranian mullahs, ISIS, al-Qaeda, Sunnis, Shia, Alawites, Wahhabis, Salafis, Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrahi, Druze — all of these people with roots in the ME are Semites, linguistically and genetically. Descendants of Shem.
And the reason this is so important is that it means the ME mess is one big 3500 year internecine Semite punch-up — always has been, always will be. To analyze what’s going on at any given point in time, you have to assess which Semite group hates which other Semite groups the most — analyzing the balance of Semite hatreds. Of course, Yisrael is the master at playing this game and has been able to survive by playing one Semite faction against another. Right now it suits them to tag-team with KSA, tomorrow it will be Egypt. It’s like playing musical Semites instead of musical chairs.
If the West and Russia would get out, and if you could wave a magic wand and make the iJews and their nukes disappear, it wouldn’t improve a thing…
…
Posted by: Denis | May 15, 2016 11:11:20 PM | 22
Your long-winded Potpourri of confused and confusing supremacist “Israeli” Identity Politics claptrap is cheap, nasty, and “Israeli” (dishonest) in nature and intent.
The Palestinians were minding their own business, working hard, and were friendly toward the (few) Jews among them when the Jewish Deniers of (the (origins of) their favourite Holocaust arrived in Palestine and began killing, maiming, and dispossessing Palestinians.
Grow up.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 17 2016 16:09 utc | 82

@13 @14 @22 @45
As far as the wars go Wahhabism is the vehicle not the engine. There was a reprint of a good article by William R Polk at consortiumnews.com, Muslim Memories of West’s Imperialism, that lays out the background all in one spot, or two.
Religion is just the channel for the deep-seated rage of the Islamic population of Africa-Middle East-Central Asia at the present time.
The Saudis have been greasing this channel for a long time, as it runs away from their ruthless, greedy, brutal selves and toward the exterior, toward the West, and toward the Shia, who they’ve been able to tar with the same infidel brush. This is an essential channel to have if you’re an extended family of tyrannical despots. And not just the Saudis are, among the Sunni ‘royalty’.
But of course the damage was done over hundreds of years by Neolibraconia itself and, with zero change on the horizon in terms of the relationship of the world’s Islamic population and Neolibraconia, its still mounting today. People actually do blow themselves up, everyday, in revenge for their collective treatment at the hands of the Neolibraconians and other infidels. The real Saudi masterstroke has been to make sure that it is only Neolibraconia and the Shia, and not Neolibraconia’s compradors among the Sunnis – themselves – who suffer the rage of the long-oppressed, predominantly Sunni, Islamic masses.

Posted by: jfl | May 18 2016 11:16 utc | 84

And West don’t worry,Montenegro is now NATO!This little postage stamp of a nation is a pit bull,and will defend Europe from the savage Russian bear.
God,save US from the ziomonsters!

Posted by: dahoit | May 19 2016 15:08 utc | 86