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May 20, 2016

Open Thread (NOT U.S. Election) 2016-19

News & views ...

Posted by b on May 20, 2016 at 17:46 UTC | Permalink

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Bedtime for Democracy ... this time in Brazil

Posted by: nmb | May 20 2016 18:34 utc | 1

Again -- would Peter Lavelle kindly shut up and let his guests talk?

Posted by: chet380 | May 20 2016 18:35 utc | 2

Seeing there's not much happening here on this Open Thread compared to the other Open Thread devoted to the 2016 US Presidential elections, and since nmb led off with that link to an article on Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff's suspension, maybe I'll pick up the torch and lead off with the observation that the US is using Latin American countries' own political institutions against them to install pro-Washington neoliberal governments.

I assume most (maybe all) Latin American countries have a presidential system of government where the executive function (President and cabinet) and the legislative function (Congress) are separate, as in the US system. Over the past several years, leftist or left-leaning politicians have been elected to serve in the executive function (eg Cristina Kirchner in Argentina, Rousseff in Brazil, Evo Morales in Bolivia, Michelle Bachelet in Chile, Rafael Correa in Ecuador, Jose Mujica in Uruguay) but the legislative function and the judicial function (Supreme Court) seem to be dominated by right-wing parties. This is where the US is exploiting the vulnerability of Latin American political structures by cultivating politicians in those parties.

The role of US ambassador in these countries is another issue to consider. Liliana Ayalde is the current US ambassador to Brazil. Before that appointment, she was ambassador to Paraguay. In 2012 the then President Fernando Lugo (a leftist) was suspended and impeached in a process similar to what Rousseff has undergone and will undergo.

In a 2009 diplomatic cable released by whistleblower website WikiLeaks, then U.S. ambassador to Paraguay, Liliana Ayalde warned a colleague that rumors of an impeachment were growing.

“We have been careful to express public support for Paraguay's democratic institutions — not for Lugo personally — and to make sure Lugo understands the benefits of a close relationship with the United States,” wrote Ayalde in a Dec. 7, 2009 cable.

Carlos Eduardo Martins, a sociology professor at the University of Sao Paulo, told teleSUR that Ayalde is using similar language to defend the parliamentary coup against Rousseff.

“That ambassador acted with great force during the coup that happened in Paraguay and she is in Brazil, using the same discourse, arguing that there is a situation that will be resolved by Brazilian institutions,” Martins said.

Meanwhile, Argentine political analyst Atilo Boron called Ayalde an “expert in promoting 'soft coups.'”

Perhaps all Latin American countries (and for that matter all other countries) should consider cutting off all diplomatic relations with the US, and any other ties (trade, cultural, academic, scientific, whatever) that involves a direct or indirect link with the US government or US corporations.

Posted by: Jen | May 20 2016 22:09 utc | 3

@3 jen 'but the legislative function and the judicial function (Supreme Court) seem to be dominated by right-wing parties. This is where the US is exploiting the vulnerability of Latin American political structures by cultivating politicians in those parties.'

That's the MO in US itself, although the TNCs/plutocrats have the executive as securely in their pocket. But remember Clinton XLII.

I certainly agree with Atilo Boron. The USA is like typhoid Mary, although asymptotic it's not - the Emperor's new Nobel Peace Prize has apparently covered them all.

Posted by: jfl | May 20 2016 22:29 utc | 4

Yes, Brazil now owned by golden saxs and the imf. They were so close.

Posted by: jo6pac | May 20 2016 22:29 utc | 5

Posted by: chet380 | May 20, 2016 2:35:55 PM | 2

Again -- would Peter Lavelle kindly shut up and let his guests talk?

Again and again can you please stop spamming on Peter Lavelle. It's his show, said repeatedly he can do what he like with it. Giving fair time and encourage his guests to jump in. CrossTalk' is RT's flagship program and never missed a show since 2013.

If you dun like his show don't watch and stop spamming!

Posted by: Jack Smith | May 20 2016 22:29 utc | 6

Glenn Greenwald's Interview with Dilma Rousseff: Her First Since Being Suspended YT

Posted by: Terry | May 20 2016 23:13 utc | 7

nmb @ 1: Thanks for the link, big money wins again.

Posted by: ben | May 21 2016 2:15 utc | 8

Jack Smith | May 20, 2016 6:29:44 PM | 6

If you dun like his show don't watch and stop spamming!
Yep, he's boring and a troll to boot...

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 21 2016 2:28 utc | 9

@ chet380 | May 20, 2016 2:35:55 PM | 2

To get several others to more or less agree in differing ways is creating nuance; a skill needed for complex reasoning as well as critical thinking, neither of which can exist without it. So sorry to conclude your opinion is deficient as well. Had you ever thought this forum was irrelevant to your right to make a fool of yourself?

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | May 21 2016 3:08 utc | 10

@1 nmb - thanks for starting a conversation on what is happening in brazil.

@3 jen.. thanks for articulating this in a way i can quickly understand some of it.

@7 terry.. thanks for link to the interview.. i really enjoyed watching it. dilma rousseff comes across very impressively while greenwald seemed fairly prepared for it..

it doesn't seem as though it is finished and she is gone, although the usa seems to have done a lot of damage this far....

Posted by: james | May 21 2016 3:26 utc | 11

Victoria Nuland: Hillary's Warmonger In Waiting

And that brings us to the deplorable Kagan clan—Washington’s leading resident family of war-mongering neo-cons. The odds are that, if elected President, Hillary would likely choose one of them——her protégé during her stint in the Obama administration, Victoria Nuland—as Secretary of State.

Posted by: Frank | May 21 2016 4:11 utc | 12

Events still proceed slowly in Kiev after the recent removal of Yatsenyuk and the appointment of Groisman as the new PM. This was despite considerable worry by the regime about the second anniversary, early this month, of the arson and murders at the Odessa Trade Union Building. But the big news on the Eastern Front is that, at least for the purposes of song contests, European values include weeping over Nazi collaborators.

Sergii Leshchenko, a former MP in the Petroshenko Bloc, writes in The Moscow Times that the new government is Poroshenko's last chance politically.

The main takeaway from two years of Poroshenko's presidency has been the defeat of reform at the gates of oligarchic consensus. Not one of Ukraine's main oligarchs has suffered serious losses....

Sixty percent of Ukrainians consider the president personally responsible for the continued high levels of corruption... The demand from society today couldn't be clearer: It wants zero tolerance for corruption and the complete rejection of oligarchic clans.

So far, only one appointment by the new government has come under fire. Poroshenko named a close crony without legal credentials as the new anti-corruption prosecutor, not surprisinly producing some suspicion. Poroshenko would seem likely to disappoint popular expectations of reduced corruption.

The overall political situation is largely unchanged. Prior to the latest Minsk-II meeting in early May, attacks were on the rise in the Donbas, but have since subsided. The Russians hoped to somehow get an agreement to hold elections in the summer, but the meeting ended with no progress on the underlying issues.

This would be because official Ukrainian intransigence on the Minsk-2 requirements for genuine autonomy and elections continues. VOA reports that Oksana Syroyid, deputy speaker of the Ukrainian Rada, believes that election would be "possible only after Ukraine's sovereignty is renewed in the region and Russia's presence is eliminated in those territories." Further required measures include the removal of all of what the regime calls "Russian propaganda... and the withdrawal of all Russian agents from the area."

On a related point, the BBC has declined Kiev's demand to stop referring to the conflict as a civil war and highlight "Russian aggression" as the cause.

The anniversaries of both the Odessa massacre and victory in the Great Patriotic War early in the month made the junta tense. American scholar Nicolai Petro gives this account in Counterpunch. Fearing demonstrations against them on both days, the regime deployed extensive force to keep a lid on the city. In particular, a detachment of the Azov militia was posted to the region

He also reports that the newly-formed "State Initiative Yarosh" announced that it was ready to deploy if needed. Yarosh is the former leader of Pravyi Sektor, who left the group late last year over differences in strategy. At that time he announced that he would convene a February conference to found a new organization. Several Pravyi Sektor detachments left with Yarosh and formed the core of his new movement.

Petro cited an article in Korrespondent, which quoted Yarosh as saying that the massacre was "organized by the Kremlin's secret services..." Ukrainian security prevented a repeat of "such a Kremlin scenario" and his militia stood ready to mobilize to prevent a fresh Moscow provocation that would bring "a new massacre on an even larger scale."

Azov for its part just staged a provocative rally before the Rada, threatening to launch another coup should elections in the Donbas be held. Interfax-Ukraine characterized it as a warning, quoting Biletsky of Azov as saying "We're not going to go into the Verkhovna Rada building right now, but we will demand our requirements be met.... We will not allow holding elections in Donbas...."

Such intransigence by the "volunteer battalions" is the primary reason why Kiev will not comply with Minsk-2.

Finally, for all you fans of bad pop music, take comfort in knowing that it too can be used as stick with which to beat the Russians. The junta named Crimean Tatar exile Jamala as their representative to the yearly Eurovision Song Contest. Her winning tune, "1944," lamented their deportation from Crimea as retribution for their collaboration with the fascists; they served in the Waffen-SS. The rules ban overt political songs, but this was elided by calling it "historical" (as though history is without past political context or present implication).

Kiev, Moscow, Paris, Munich, everybody talk about Pop Muzik!. Fix me a Molotov!

Posted by: rufus magister | May 21 2016 4:17 utc | 13

Thanks for the Brazil materials. The link @7 to the Greenwald interview of Dilma Rouseff was on YouTube. Here's the source page at The Intercept - it contains a backgrounder on the situation as well as a transcript of the English subtitles, for those who have less time:

Watch: First Interview With Brazil’s President Dilma Rousseff Since the Senate’s Impeachment Vote

As a sidebar - I hadn't looked at The Intercept since its beginning, and frankly I was very dubious about Glenn Greenwald since his move there. He used to be a hero of mine, not least for his undeniable love of (US) Constitutional law. But the tie to Pierre Omidyar seemed a bridge too far at the time, so the knee-jerk reaction was to shy away. Not to distract from the important topic of Brazil, but I would welcome opinions on Greenwald and his integrity as a journalist.

Posted by: Grieved | May 21 2016 4:41 utc | 14

I like Peter Lavelle. He puts together a good assembly of guests. Perhaps he talks too much on occasion but that is small price to pay for good programming.

What I found disappointing was that Russia-Insider has turned out to be such a scandal. I am not convinced yet that Bauseman is a conman but I have seen other people who tried to put together a business that simply failed and resorted to shady dealing trying to salvage their project. It was interesting to see that it was Lavelle himself who revealed the problems.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 21 2016 4:54 utc | 15

Grieved @14

b is a journalist and Greenwald is a journalist prostitute.

Greenwald does it for money and (from what I perceive) personal ego which makes me question his motives and writing.

Greenwald is acting as a gatekeeper of information from Snowden about our world and I resent the implication that we can't handle the whole truth. We live with a form of social organization that seems to be leading us and the world we live in to extinction so pulling punches at this point seems ludicrous.

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 21 2016 5:14 utc | 16

Israeli politician in line to be defence minister called for 'disloyal' Israeli Arabs to be beheaded

Mr Lieberman, who lives in an illegal settlement in the occupied West Bank, said of Arabs in Israel in a 2015 election campaign speech: "Those who are with us deserve everything. Those against us, it cannot be helped, we must lift up an axe and behead them - otherwise we will not survive here."

'Netanyahu-Liberman government shows signs of fascism,' Ehud Barak says

Barak seemed to be echoing Ya'alon in his remarks, saying: "Extremist elements have taken over the State of Israel."

"The outgoing defense minister, Moshe Ya'alon, was the victim of a purge," Barak said. "In the initial months, Liberman will give off the impression that he is moderate. Sooner or later, however, we will see the price we have to pay."

Parallels Between Israel and 1930s Germany

General Ya’ir Golan, the deputy Chief of Staff of the Israeli army, made a speech on Holocaust Memorial Day. Wearing his uniform, he read a prepared, well-considered text that triggered an uproar which has not yet died down.

Dozens of articles have been published in its wake, some condemning him, some lauding him. Seems that nobody could stay indifferent.

The main sentence was: "If there is something that frightens me about the memories of the Holocaust, it is the knowledge of the awful processes which happened in Europe in general, and in Germany in particular, 70, 80, 90 years ago, and finding traces of them here in our midst, today, in 2016."

All hell broke loose. What!!! Traces of Nazism in Israel? A resemblance between what the Nazis did to us with what we are doing to the Palestinians?

One of the main slogans of our present government is to replace the "old elite", considered too liberal, with a new one. One of the main Nazi slogans was to replace "das System".

[W]hen the Nazis came to power, almost all high-ranking officers of the German army were staunch anti-Nazis. They were even considering a putsch against Hitler . Their political leader was summarily executed a year later, when Hitler liquidated his opponents in his own party. We are told that General Golan is now protected by a personal bodyguard, something that has never happened to a general in the annals of Israel.

The general did not mention the occupation and the settlements, which are under army rule. But he did mention the episode which occurred shortly before he gave this speech, and which is still shaking Israel now: in occupied Hebron, under army rule, a soldier saw a seriously wounded Palestinian lying helplessly on the ground, approached him and killed him with a shot to the head. The victim had tried to attack some soldiers with a knife, but did not constitute a threat to anyone any more. This was a clear contravention of army standing orders, and the soldier has been hauled before a court martial.

A cry went up around the country: the soldier is a hero! He should be decorated! Netanyahu called his father to assure him of his support. Avigdor Lieberman entered the crowded courtroom in order to express his solidarity with the soldier. A few days later Netanyahu appointed Lieberman as Minister of Defense, the second most important office in Israel.

Before that, General Golan received robust support both from the Minister of Defense, Moshe Ya'alon, and the Chief of Staff, Gadi Eisenkot. Probably this was the immediate reason for the kicking out of Ya'alon and the appointment of Lieberman in his place. It resembled a putsch.

It seems that Golan is not only a courageous officer, but a prophet, too. The inclusion of Lieberman's party in the government coalition confirms Golan's blackest fears. This is another fatal blow to the Israeli democracy.

Am I condemned to witness the same process for the second time in my life?

See also Gideon Levy: Americans “Are Supporting the First Signs of Fascism in Israel”. From my point of view, these guys are all understating the situation, both in Israel and in the USA.

Posted by: jfl | May 21 2016 5:35 utc | 17

@14 grieved.. i identified with you in regards greenwald, but although i stopped following him when he went with intercept, i have less hostility towards him then others.. i think he does good work.. he has lived in brazil for some time so it's an issue close to him.. i think he is brilliant.. i don't know his agenda and don't know that he has one other then what i see him doing.. i think it might be unfair to accuse him as gatekeeper to snowden and for all we know, the powers that be would like to string up and lock away greenwald, like snowden - if they could.. so, i cut him a lot more slack then others i guess.. i think there is too much we don't know about that goes on behind the scene.

as for peter lavelle... i am going to quote from an anonymous source who i had a conversation with in the past day or two -

"I don’t know the evidence behind the claims that have been aired (regarding a question on russian insider i made) I’ve known Peter Lavelle for many years,....from being a brokerage analyst (sale side) to his first byline in The Russia Journal. I don’t know Charles Bausman personally. I don’t believe Peter. I believe Charles owns the R-I website and deserves the credit for it.

As for what goes on at RT,i reported "this"many years ago (2009).... unpleasant threats and punishment followed for me, and for any publication around the world which republished it. The anonym reported in the story as so terrified of my questions he hung up the telephone was Peter Lavelle."

now, i've intentionally left info out as i wasn't given authorization to share this. it was a conversation i had.. it seems peter lavelle isn't all he appears to be either..

it is hard to keep an open mind when so often things are not how they appear..

Posted by: james | May 21 2016 5:36 utc | 18

or, perhaps i meant to say ' it is hard to keep a closed mind, when so often things are not how they appear..

Posted by: james | May 21 2016 5:38 utc | 19

I bump into Greenwalds stuff once in awhile and so I cant say much other then it seems to match up with other Alt. Medias The Snoden stuff is both important and sensitive so won't be dumped onto the web .

"FROM THE TIME we began reporting on the archive provided to us in Hong Kong by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, we sought to fulfill his two principal requests for how the materials should be handled: that they be released in conjunction with careful reporting that puts the documents in context and makes them digestible to the public, and that the welfare and reputations of innocent people be safeguarded. As time has gone on, The Intercept has sought out new ways to get documents from the archive into the hands of the public, consistent with the public interest as originally conceived.

Today, The Intercept is announcing two innovations in how we report on and publish these materials. Both measures are designed to ensure that reporting on the archive continues in as expeditious and informative a manner as possible, in accordance with the agreements we entered into with our source about how these materials would be disclosed, a framework that he, and we, have publicly described on numerous occasions.

The first measure involves the publication of large batches of documents. We are, beginning today, publishing in installments the NSA’s internal SIDtoday newsletters, which span more than a decade beginning after 9/11. We are starting with the oldest SIDtoday articles, from 2003, and working our way through the most recent in our archive, from 2012. Our first release today contains 166 documents, all from 2003, and we will periodically release batches until we have made public the entire set. The documents are available on a special section of The Intercept.

Posted by: Terry | May 21 2016 5:43 utc | 20

@14 Grieved, ' I would welcome opinions on Greenwald and his integrity as a journalist'

One thing that did sour me was the Oscar extravaganza starring Himself, Laura the filmster, and - oh yeah - Edward Snowdon. Not a word about ... Chelsea Manning, for instance. Or wikileaks.

I won't presume to comment on Greenwald's integrity ... but the Intercept seems to have been a great mistake. I did follow it at first, and Greenwald was good. But the rest of the people were not up to par. And then one day I read an 'explanation' of the new tracking system that had been set up at the Intercept, how it was ultimately for the good of readership. I haven't been back since. I suppose I may have missed one or two fine articles by Greenwald, but no one is indispensable.

It's all talk anyway.

Posted by: jfl | May 21 2016 5:45 utc | 21

@14 Grieved

Here my take, been reading's Glenn Greenwald stuff since Salon days, continues to Guardian. After He met Edward Snowden in HK, moved onto Pierre Omidyar's The Intercept. I continue reading The Intercept faithfully. Something missing, Ukraine seems to fade away while daily massive bomb drops on Donbass citizens. That's when I decided to quit.

Rarely mentioned is Sarah Harrison, without her Edward Snowden most likely locked somewhere possibly in Gitmo?
Sarah Harrison

here and

Sorry, first attempt insert two websites. :-)

Posted by: Jack Smith | May 21 2016 6:27 utc | 22

Jack Smith says @ 22:

Something missing,...

in 2001, after the september attacks, Greenwald spoke glowingly of Bush's performance and in 2003 he supported the invasion of Iraq. in 2007 he joined the corporate tabloid Salon and in 2012 he signed on with the corporate behemoth Guardian. now, of course, he works directly for a neo-fascist oligarch at the Intercept.

all in all i'd say it's been a pretty congruous effort on Glenn's part.

but it was when Snowden was holed up in some hotel in Hong Kong (for a couple of weeks!!), with the CIA and god knows who else in hot pursuit, that Greenwald managed to waltz into the scene for an exclusive interview with our intrepid fugitive.

at this point i realized how well connected Greenwald is.

Posted by: john | May 21 2016 10:30 utc | 23

Re: Greenwald/Lavelle/Bausman/et al; why ask another's opinion of their integrity? Find out for yourselves by doing the work.
Do not "believe" any news source until you check it out, one reportage at a time.
If you give up that discernment, you're no better than the rest of the sheep; quit looking for approval from others.
We’re poor little sheep who’ve lost our way; bah, bah, bah…

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 21 2016 11:16 utc | 24

Snowden as Limited Hangout:

11 minute vid -

Posted by: fast freddy | May 21 2016 12:06 utc | 25

jfl # 17

I read the other day a link from ICH to a CBS piece that made me scratch my head ...."Israel's defense minister announced his resignation on Friday, saying the governing party had been taken over by "extremist and dangerous elements" and that he no longer trusted Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu following reports that he was to be replaced.

His departure removes a strong voice of moderation in the Cabinet and deepens the rift between the security establishment and the hardline politicians.

Moshe Yaalon told reporters that "Israel is a healthy society with a sane majority" that is tolerant of minorities and strives for a liberal and democratic society.

"But to my great dismay extremist and dangerous elements have taken over Israel, also over the Likud party, and are shaking the house and threatening to hurt its inhabitants," he said. "I fought with all my might against manifestations of extremism, violence and racism in Israeli society that threatens its sturdiness and is seeping into the army and already damaging it."

Posted by: Terry | May 21 2016 13:29 utc | 26


The Widening Cracks in Zionism

Seymour Reich, who is a former chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations (such folks always wait until they retire to speak out critically), has recently described Israel’s current leadership as alarmingly anti-democratic. He writes of “the Israeli government’s assault on democratic values” and its use of “legislation and incitement to strike down dissent,” be it expressed through “speech, press, religion [or] academic freedoms.”

He goes on to quote the Israeli Minister of Religious Affairs, David Azoulay. “Speaking about Reform and Conservative Jews,” who happen to make up the majority of Jews in the U.S., are often of liberal persuasion, and increasingly alienated by the ultraorthodox policies of Israel’s religious establishment, Azoulay said, “I cannot allow myself to call such a person a Jew,” and, “We cannot allow these groups to get near the Torah of Israel.”

Things appear potentially even worse when we hear Israel’s Intelligence Minister Israel Katz calling for the “targeted killing” of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) leaders. In the U.S., many of these leaders are Jewish.

Such official Israeli attitudes make a mockery of the claims of American politicians, such as Hillary Clinton, that Israel “is built on principles of equality, tolerance and pluralism. … And we marvel that such a bastion of liberty exists in a region so plagued by intolerance.” It should be noted that in January 2016 the Israeli Knesset rejected a bill that would have secured in law equality for all the country’s citizens.

The hardcore fascists in Israel begin to excommunicate those Jews critical of themselves and of their genocide of the Palestinians. They crave ethnic/racial purity. It's the Israelis against the Jews. The 'real' Jews against the JINOs - Jews in Name Only.

Maybe it's a good sign. Once they start with the ethnic/religious/racial purity their numbers will begin to shrink, maybe they will reduce themselves to numbers that can be drowned, well, if not drowned at least washed out of our collective hair, and if not in the bathtub, at least in the Dead Sea.

Posted by: jfl | May 21 2016 13:40 utc | 27


I read that too and I wonder why it would take so much time for a guy with a conscience to recognize all that evil. Then, I think Limited Hangout. This guy is a distraction from all that evil. Meantime all that evil continues unabated.

We had Colin Powell drumming up a case for war and then after the damage had been done (and he'd cashed his checks) he too had developed a conscience.

Posted by: fastfreddy | May 21 2016 13:45 utc | 28


I watched that YT vid on the Limited Hangout and it could well be .Some will shrug off the suggestion to links to Mystery Babylon in all of this and Earnst Martins book on The People that History Forgot but even looking at the esoteric symbols at the Israel Supreme Court raises my eye brows .

Seems along with the Vatican and DC for that matter they have roots that go way back .

Posted by: Terry | May 21 2016 14:08 utc | 29

I've always found GG pretty good on the issues,and his only drawback is his LGBT connection,which sometimes makes him lose his perspective on reality,but hey no ones perfect.
He left Salon and the Guardian,probably because both signaled their stance on the issues was not amenable to truthiness.Salon is a yuppie wasteland of feminist wackos,and the Graun is now totally Israel centric,despite Zions total radical rightisms.
Saw Rusbriger was pushed out of chairmanship.Anyone know the particulars?Was he too left or too right?

Posted by: dahoit | May 21 2016 14:24 utc | 30

Ukraine is not in the news these days. Rough summary on Donesk People’s Republic.

Gvmt and administration: named by decree, voted in, a mixture. Parliament: 100. Several political parties. Elected (internally) Nov. 2014.

Army: United Armed Forces of Novorussiya - with Luhansk, as it is part of the Confederation of Novorussiya - a union of People’s Republics. However this Confed. seems barely to exist or it does not in any important sense though its officials stress collaboration.

Blockaded (almost completely): by Kiev

Patron: Russia. Imports, aid: Russia. Exports to Russia. (Kiev controls the border and the movement of goods is a mess, smuggling and racketteering but trade is still ongoing.)

Judiciary: own police, courts, prisons, etc. Taxes, collected (unevenly!)

Banks: Own central bank, which will print its own new currency, supposedly planned. More idk but Russia has being buying up Ukr. banks. DPR is hooked into the Russian banking-finance system, afaik that is almost complete. (?) Currency: hryvnia, ruble, euro and US dollar. (Floating exchange rates + black market). Pensions and functionaries are paid in rubles.

Travel and borders: relatively easy to travel to Russia, work there, etc. To Kiev Ukraine: difficult as an ordinary resident as DPR traveller but expatriation to the East can be managed. Costs!

Communication: has created own cell-phone network. (No idea how efficient, what cos. etc.) Internet: idk.

Education (a topic I do know about):

DPR kept Ukrainian policy for choosing lang of schooling (Ukr vs. Rus) but inscriptions for Ukr fell so practically no more. (It is implemented by classrooms. Ukr teachers have been recycled to other posts, not fired. Or they left.)

Schoolbooks, text-books + library bks now come for a large part from Russia. Switched to Russian grading system. (= 5 pt-scale.) Higher level educ. institutions are all twinned with similar in Russia. Certificates are R-compatible (or identical, idk) allowing automatic inscription in Russian Unis, tech schools, and so on.

A new history curriculum is pointed more to the Donbass/Novorussiya: contemporary history (political information / indoctrination.) Russian literature, culture, etc. loom large. No foreign language -except Ukranian, not really ‘foreign’- (from 2 to more hrs/week) is taught at primary level (to age 13.) (After that, English.)

Teacher pay is ‘adequate’ - teachers are protected.

— For all practical purposes, the DPR is part of Russia already. The conflict is ‘frozen’ as Kiev cannot give up the break-away lands - too much failure on the international scene, see Crimea. Kiev faces threats from the neo-nazis who want to get rid of the inhabitants and keep the territory. The W wants to maintain the fiction of Minsk II, which Kiev cannot / refuses to implement, while the W continues to blame Russia. Russia will not intervene, or allow the Novorus forces to take more territory. Russia could take the whole area, to Odessa (and more) easily but it would not be bloodless and it would indeed be an invasion. The opposition to elections in the DPR from neo-nazis is linked to Minsk. Allowing them to take place amounts to according status to ‘those ppl’ and agreement to a Federal Structure, which de facto would mean the break up of Ukraine.

Posted by: Noirette | May 21 2016 14:43 utc | 31

@17 jfl.. the topic of israel moving further to the right seems to be in the news right now.. i like gideon levy, max blumenthal and what they have to say generally. a quote from the bottom link - "The worst curse that you can hear today is you are a leftist. It's a curse in Israel. This atmosphere, violent, aggressive, and lacking any kind of tolerance, is above all dangerous for the future of Israel." bds is the most obvious tool for changing some of this.. wonder when bds becomes against the law, or has it already?

@25 fastfreddy.. thanks for the video.. here's a transcript, if anyone would prefer to read it.. the article is okay.. it is good to ask these kinds of questions.. i am unconvinced by the writer either way and maintain an automatic default position - skeptical of everything..

@31 noirette.. nice summation.. thanks.. is education a special focus of yours? is everyone in the usa still getting school textbooks from texas?

Posted by: james | May 21 2016 16:08 utc | 32

I think AMTV is a Limited Hangout.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 21 2016 16:11 utc | 33

Terry @29 - Your comment 'Seems along with the Vatican and DC for that matter they have roots that go way back' triggered a fond memory of a documentary I watched back in 2011 by Bill Still called 'The Secret of Oz'. Still connects the City of London, DC and the Vatican as the centers of power behind the building of the global/international order we are witness to today. He uses the story of the Wizard of Oz, the one we've all seen gazillion times on the idiot box NOT the original story, to illustrate what the powers were communicating to the masses via film about this world order 40+ years ago. There is much more to the documentary that I fear I will do a disservice if I keep rambling on about it.

It's well worth the time to watch it, if you haven't already, and who knows, it may help connect even more dots to this grand conspiracy -

Posted by: h | May 21 2016 16:32 utc | 34

Maduro is now in very serious trouble. The OAS will soon decide if Venezuela shall be expelled from the organization, this will open up the country to suffer sanctions that will deal a mortal blow to the current government. Maduro is now on the ropes, he is aware that their might be a coup and has mobilized the military. The situation in the country as per people I have spoke to very dire.

Posted by: Fernando Arauxo | May 21 2016 16:39 utc | 35
Forget Damascus and forget President Bashar al-Assad’s seat of power – the real battle for Syria is being played out in the northern city of Aleppo, where Turkey dared dream it would revive its empire of old. Ankara here, is in for a rude awakening!

So rude in fact that Turkish President Recep Erdogan is contemplating a military incursion into Syria – a move fraught with dangers, as it could potentially send Turkey in a collision course with not just Damascus, but two military superpowers; Iran and Russia. Needless to say that while both Moscow and Tehran have exercised restraint and measure when dealing with Ankara’s political folly, for the sake of regional stability; a direct military move against Syria would likely send ripples across the region that no amount of diplomacy will quiet.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 21 2016 17:16 utc | 36

The Syria conflict is a proxy war between the US + its allies (KSA, not in favor right now, Israel, Gulfies, etc.) against Russia (+ Iran, Hezb. etc.) It swerves and sways between different declarations and is set to jell as a ‘frozen conflict’ (see also Ukraine) while the different parties position themselves not only in Syria but elsewhere.

The US (+ poodle EU) is caught in too many binds (Afgh, Iraq, Lybia, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Ukr, Montenegro, N. Africa (Mali even Egypt) or Nigeria which eveyone forgets about ..) but can’t ever withdraw, admit failure, give up or even re-coup. The hegemon must be top of the heap. So a one time a ‘cessation of hostilities’, is all good for a while until it turns to sh*t.

Actually putting all in terms of countries makes only marginal sense (US ppl gain nothing by killing Iraqis or Syrians, in fact they loose big time), it is a double-edged war, fought all over the W (OECD) world by large Corps in cahoots with Finance/Banks and Gvmts to achieve a fantastical Super-Uber-Class that is immune from strife and controls the human dregs as slaves, repressing the useless eaters. Second, against those Gvmts. who object to that (or obstinately remain outside of the circuit under control), the ugly dictators, e.g. Saddam in Iraq with WMD and green claws, etc.

E.g. one film aout the EU (2015). “The Brussels Business.”

Posted by: Noirette | May 21 2016 18:32 utc | 37

Everything should be considered suspect and researched further. There are no golden knights, but there are the Knights of Columbus, Opus Dei, and etc. There are no hard and fast disqualifiers wrt Limited Hangouts. Because one thing appears to be a Limited Hangout, does not discount the other as a Limited Hangout also.

Sure seemed peculiar to me the manner and speed in which Pvt Brad Manning morphed into Chelsea. Seemed to discredit (for sure deflected attention away from) the terrible story of which the main points were obviously valid. Damning evidence on video the gunning down of innocents in the street and the heinous attack on an ambulance and kids.

So then you get this guy apparently motivated to take the fall and they stick a wig on him and he's transgender.

The left had placed so much hope in him and his revelations and the story gets lost. Now the story is Chelsea Manning and the abuses she suffers in Military Jails, etc.

Somebody made that Limited Hangout and succeeded in wrecking the story.

Posted by: fast freddy | May 21 2016 21:03 utc | 38

another impoverished nation fed into the maw of Dragon Inc

Posted by: ruralito | May 21 2016 21:19 utc | 39

@35, I've seen vids of Maduro giving speeches to big crowds who support him; did you talk to any of them? eg

Posted by: ruralito | May 21 2016 21:24 utc | 40

@27 it _is_ a good sign. More Jews are becoming embarrassed by Israel. If enough get in AIPAC's face Israel will be stalemated and have to find a more congenial site. For years I've called for a Jewish[sic] State[sic] in N. Nevada. Getting more plausible by the hour.

Posted by: ruralito | May 21 2016 21:32 utc | 41

Some pieces of news weigh more than others and they could have been placed in more than one category. You just can’t miss or ignore them. The capture of US, French intelligence operatives by Hezbollah in Aleppo is a good example, as it has many implications. So I briefly review what happened and what this means:

Posted by: massoud | May 21 2016 21:33 utc | 42

massoud@42 - Interesting. I was just going to put up the FARS news article:

Lebanese Source: US, French Intelligence Officers Captured by Hezbollah in Aleppo

TEHRAN (FNA)- Hezbollah has captured an American and a French spies in its operations in Aleppo, a prominent Lebanese media source revealed on Saturday, adding that the US, Israeli and Saudi intelligence agents helped Al-Nusra Front to find the place of Hezbollah's martyred military chief, Mustafah Badreddin, and kill him in retaliation...

So far, complete absence of any mention in Western MSM. Hmmmm....

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 21 2016 22:54 utc | 43

in re 34 --

Srsly? So our long history of nativist "anti-popery" is some sort of ruse? Didn't you forget to mention the Illuminati and the Jesuits forging the NWO?

Posted by: rufus magister | May 21 2016 22:57 utc | 44


“Top US Commander for Middle East Secretly Visits Syria”

The commander of US Central Command, responsible for the Middle East, Northern Africa and Central Asia, made a secret visit to Syria to discuss Raqqa assault.

U.S. rebuffs Russia‘s offer.
Think the Commander went only to discuss Raqqa assault. Is it not the Kurds leading the charge and where is the Sultan?

Posted by: likklemore | May 22 2016 0:19 utc | 45

@h 34
Indeed, The Secret Of Oz is a great way to while away 2 hours. Goes to lengths to explain the role and misuse of debt throughout some important points in history...until you get an understanding that our current global bind has been seen before, and will be seen again.

The film version of The Wizard of Oz hides some key symbolism from the original book and subsequent stage versions that feature Dorothy sporting silver shoes - not ruby. It is said that without the silver slippers upon the golden path the rest of the obvious symbolism was lost. But, for sure, the production tips a deserved hat to the US Constitution which was written to prevent financial terrorism to be wrought upon the states ever again.

Gold, Silver, a stuttering industry (tinman)...among others ...and the man behind the curtain...

Is everyone prepared for the next bank run...?

Posted by: MadMax2 | May 22 2016 2:01 utc | 46

Yip Harburg was the lyricist for the movie, The Wizard of Oz. Here's a link to an interview of Yip where he explains the whole movie in terms of its symbolism; it's a wonderful video to watch;

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 22 2016 2:51 utc | 47

It could almost look like a ground war between the spooks of several nations in Aleppo.

Thanks @36 for that journal-neo analysis on Erdogan - what indeed will he do? I have to suppose the US would welcome Erdogan going headstrong into Syria, although perhaps not enough to actively encourage him. It would be a clusterf*ck and Turkey would get badly beaten there I think, but the US would capitalize on the chaos.

@42 - so you're saying the escalation has only just begun. It seems only a few days ago the story was that Hezbollah was preserving its fighters and staying out of the ceasefire-violation war. But now Nusra terrorists - "who received their trainings from Israel's Mossad secret service in 2012", according the Farsnews story linked @43 - have goaded Hezbollah, and it begins to look, to my unskilled eye, like a serious battle of retaliations between covert services is underway.

Hezbollah is about to launch a massive attack on what we're calling terrorists, but who appear suspiciously like direct operatives of US, Israeli and French black ops - I wonder how many nationals from those three countries will be among the combatants? Can we be approaching a time of show trials of foreign spies in Syria?

Posted by: Grieved | May 22 2016 2:57 utc | 48

Can we be approaching a time of show trials of foreign spies in Syria?

Russia will not allow Syria to conduct a trial of anyone, particularly an Israeli Op. Hezbollah though, will ensure a lengthy interrogation and quite disappearance of those who fall into their hands.

Posted by: alkomv | May 22 2016 4:00 utc | 49

it is hard to keep an open mind when so often things are not how they appear..

Posted by: james | May 21, 2016 1:36:28 AM | 18

or, perhaps i meant to say ' it is hard to keep a closed mind, when so often things are not how they appear..

Posted by: james | May 21, 2016 1:38:35 AM | 19
Thank you James for the correction & for your comment. It seems to me that an important part of being an adult is being able to tolerate uncertainty. Sometimes it takes the form of "I don't know whether A or B is true. I WANT B to be true, so I must be careful not to exclude any evidence, fall where it may." I don't watch Peter's show any more as it so seldom allowed any real addition to the big picture. Both his show & RT generally seem to have certain limits or fences-- and it's precisely what's on the other side of those fences that I most need to know to resolve my uncertainties.

Posted by: Penelope | May 22 2016 4:48 utc | 50

Here is a link to a story that say that a US drone killed Mullah Mansoor who is/was a top Afghan Taliban leader

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 22 2016 4:51 utc | 51

V. Arnold @ 24, There's nothing the least bit wrong in asking for the opinion of others. Especially since one expects any worthwhile opinion to be accompaniied by experiences, facts, links, etc. Presumably you too are on the site in part to consult the info donated by others.

Perhaps you're just in a bad mood, but I think your criticism is uncalled for besides much too mocking. If you have an opinion in the matter under discussion I'm sure we'd like you to share it.

Posted by: Penelope | May 22 2016 5:02 utc | 52

21st Century Wire has close conact w a couple local journalists in Syria & they have a slew of stories on Syria, the fighting, US intentions, what Carter said, etc, etc.

Posted by: Penelope | May 22 2016 5:57 utc | 53

huge massacre around the mines in RDC and the police attacked the demonstrators asking the government for acountability yesterday in kinshasa
spread the word

Posted by: Mina | May 22 2016 8:17 utc | 54

Syrian President Bashar al Assad would seem like a natural ally to the United States and the European Union. He heads a secular government and presides over a secular nation. It is a nation where extremist political factions like the Muslim Brotherhood are outlawed and armed terrorist groups hunted down and eliminated. There was even a point in history before the 2011 war began within and along Syria’s borders that Washington even feigned such an alliance with Damascus.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 22 2016 8:40 utc | 55


This is the sort of downright bizarre conceptualization of reality begotten by the technocratic and DESPOTIC mentality that most of society is unwittingly and increasingly being subjected to, and yes, the operative word is SUBJECTED!

On the subject of surveillance and the right of individuals who WISH to be LEFT ALONE to THEIR PRIVACY, and their attempts at using countervailing measures to mitigate, to some degree, of face recognition technologies, this particular hack, Torin Monahan, employed by North Carolina University at Chapel Hill (from my perspective, his title or CV means nothing, given his lack of respect for free-will), says the following in his paper “The Right to Hide? Anti-Surveillance Camouflage and the Aestheticization of Resistance”, published in Communication and Critical/Cultural Studies, Vol 12, No. 2 June 2015, pp 159-178

“…Taken at face value, anti-surveillance camouflage enacts a play of surveillance avoidance. It frames the enemy either as state and corporate actors invading one’s privacy or as malicious individuals seeking to violate helpless others through voyeuristic transgressions. The gaze is always unwanted; it always individuates; it always objectifies. In this narrative, there is little room to engage the problems of categorical suspicion that undergird marginalizing surveillance because the unit of analysis is the individual, not the group. There is little room to explore complex amalgams of desired surveillance, extractive systems, and hidden effects. The provocation is one of the enlightened, bourgeois subject asserting his or her right to be left alone, which is a claim that by its very implied utterance already reveals the relative privilege of the one making it. It is also a heroic, masculinist narrative that positions women as feeble targets of voyeuristic encounters (e.g., the dreaded “upskirt” shot) who are in need of stylistic, technological shields to preserve their dignity and honor. It would seem, then, that systems of oppression and discrimination - racism, sexism, classism, ableism, etc, -- are preserved or at least not directly contested by anti-surveillance artistic experiments…”

Notice how this guy argues. Classical! Best form of defense is attack and distraction.
Let us bring a red-herring into the discussion, bundled in a simultaneous attack and distraction/evasion from the central point – namely, the assault on privacy, and ways to mitigate it,-- and instead, fault those who are trying to address this problem (with whatever ways they can find to somewhat mitigate it) for the fact that those mitigating strategies do not address racism (!), and further, through a prodigious amount of contorted logic, label them as sexist, in the process!!!

I found him through this website, called SURVEILLANCE STUDIES NETWORKS - the international research information network on surveillance, which states preposterous things as well, such these kind of precious nuggets (!):

“So, instead of thinking about surveillance as a single all-knowing oppressive force – as George Orwell depicts in the novel Nineteen Eighty Four – we prefer to think of it as something which is woven into everyday life and that is more complex and multi-layered. The covert hi-tech world of the spy or the all-seeing evil despot are but tiny aspects of the surveillance society. “

Please read,


Posted by: susette | May 22 2016 10:26 utc | 56

james at 32. On USA textbooks - for readers unaware:

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the price of textbooks has risen more than 800% over the past 30 years, a rate faster than medical services (575%), new home prices (325%), and the consumer price index (250%). The average college student spends more than $900 a year on textbooks. Not surprisingly, textbook publishers have been highly profitable.


.. which treats the vicious competition in the area from the ‘internet’ segment, only part of the story. Besides the purveyors of the material(s) many entities are involved: Fed. Gvmt (Common Core, Obama’s Race to the Top etc.), local Gvmt., movement for charter schools, various Foundations with dubious aims, new entrants, etc.

It is the Financiarisation of Education given free reign from the one angle where it could easily be wildly profitable - others, such as security and social control are not as lucrative, and building/infrastructure is another topic.

No secret: US Education stats (though many are highly questionable as to method, the int’l measures used, etc.) and ratings re. science publications, patents, and any other measure one cares to look up have gone down since about 1990 and are plumetting in years 2011-16. One of the main causes (imho) is the ‘forced outsourcing of educational materials’ for profit.

Heh I’d better stop there! (Open thread after all.)

Posted by: Noirette | May 22 2016 12:11 utc | 57

Noirette | May 22, 2016 8:11:49 AM | 57

You wouldn't believe the origins of American education; the Hindu model from India circa 1860's (IIRC).
Anyway, a must read is John T. Gatto's, The Underground History of American Education. It's way worse than you can imagine.
Gatto was a #1 teacher in N.Y. for 30 years with many awards for his abilities; he finally quit because of corruption.
Here's a link to his book, which is a free audio book from Unwelcome Guests;

It is a mind blower from the beginning until its end...

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 22 2016 12:30 utc | 58

Let me just add; if nothing else, listen to the first chapter, The way it Used to Be; if that doesn't grab you nothing can...

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 22 2016 12:35 utc | 59

V Arnold The Prussian education system refers to the system of education established in Prussia as a result of educational reforms in the late 18th and early 19th century, which has had widespread influence since. It is predominantly used as an American political slogan in educational reform debates, since it was adopted by all American K-12 public schools and major universities as early as the late 18th century, and is often used as a derogatory term for education in the service of nation-building, teaching children and young adults blind obedience to authority, and reinforcing class and race prejudice.[1] The actual Prussian education system was introduced as a basic concept in the late 18th century and was significantly enhanced after Prussia's defeat in the early stages of the Napoleonic Wars. The Prussian educational reforms inspired other countries and remains important as a biopower in the Foucaultian sense for nation-building.[2] Compulsory education on the Prussian example was soon mirrored in Scandinavia, and US states started to adopt the Prussian example.

The design from what I understand of it was to teach the student what to think but not how to think .

Posted by: Terry | May 22 2016 12:44 utc | 60

@ Noirette

Supplied link doesn't work; try this, it works;

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 22 2016 12:48 utc | 61

Terry | May 22, 2016 8:44:21 AM | 60

Yes, correct, but, where did the Prussian model originate?
India; the Hindu school's methods.
Check out Gatto's book. He's the real deal @ Unwelcome Guests...

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 22 2016 12:51 utc | 62

You would have been an excellent apparatchik for Stalin with this apologia for his exiling of all Crimean Tartars for the sins of a few. The choice of this song for recognition may have been political but it was a reminder that history does influence people today especially when many people try to cleanse the past.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | May 22 2016 14:24 utc | 63

unitedsnake is here to 'protect' its 'allies' from the big bad dragon , or so we heard.
really ?

who robbed the okinawans of their ancestral lands and has been abusing their daughters for the past SEVENTY yrs ??? [1]

who robbed the jeju islanders of their ancestral lands, broke up their communities, turned bros against bros, friends into foes ???

who perpetrated serial terrorism against malaysia ?

who committed terrorism in order to gain a foothold in ph ???

who's jihadists army, the grey wolf, committed terrorism in thailand ??


william blum on the 'world cop'
it was the cleverest protection racket since men convinced women that they needed men to protect
for if all the men vanished overnight, how many women would be afraid to walk the streets?

Posted by: denk | May 22 2016 14:32 utc | 64

Denk #64 A better understanding biblically of woman and her roll would be "“It is not good that man should be alone. I will make him a companion of strength and power who has a saving power and is equal with him.”

Posted by: Terry | May 22 2016 14:54 utc | 65

Iraq forces fire on and wound and kill many in Green Zone.Another travesty swept under the rug of forgetfulness,a puppet govt against its own people.
We aint seen nothing yet,as far as violence in the ME.
Thanks for nothing Zion.

Posted by: dahoit | May 22 2016 15:18 utc | 66

Re: Iraqi protesters fired on by government forces in Green Zone (@ dahoit 66)

Al Jazeera reports 4 dead, hundred wounded.

Also articles by Reuters, CNN, NYTimes, WaPo, BBC with slightly differing numbers of wounded.

This is the kind of news the US government wants promulgated so that it prepares the publics in the West to see more military sent into Iraq. I think.

Posted by: jawbone | May 22 2016 15:29 utc | 67

@50 penelope.. thanks for stating that and acknowledging my comment.. as i have mentioned here before, i tend to read script, as opposed to listening to video feed.. for some reason i find the written format more enjoyable...

@57 noirette.. thanks. i was mostly going on the fact that much of fundamental christian ideology - bible as opposed to evolution was the dominant thinking in texas where many of the school text books originate from and making some passing joke.. your data is interesting and i was unaware of that..

@58 v. arnold.. regarding gatto - i read his book 'dumbing us down' - which is quite informative for anyone wanting greater insight on the educational system in the usa.. good book!

Posted by: james | May 22 2016 15:46 utc | 68

@63 Same goes for Japanese internment in the US during WW2. Though admittedly their sins weren't as grievous as the Waffen SS.

Posted by: dh | May 22 2016 15:55 utc | 69

The design from what I understand of it was to teach the student what to think but not how to think...
Posted by: Terry | May 22, 2016 8:44:21 AM | 60

Also known as Devotion To Religious thinking.
Note that Hindu is a religion, thus plagiarising a Hindu model and calling it a Prussian Model makes a blatantly Religious model sound Safely Secular in the post-Enlightenment West.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 22 2016 18:08 utc | 70

hey B!

it would be cool if you did a post on brazil, or brasil - as that would be interesting to hear your perspective!

Posted by: james | May 22 2016 19:47 utc | 71

Can anyone, sane, recommend books on 1) The Bosnian war, and 2) The 2008 conflict in Georgia?

I was a pretty dumb bastard during these periods (little has changed) and I notice a lot of folks alluding to these conflicts which I process cognitively on the level of cattle.

Posted by: IhaveLittleToAdd | May 22 2016 21:07 utc | 72

Trump’s Five Questions on US Foreign Policy

“Let me [Stephen Cohen] just rattle off the five questions he [Trump] has asked.

[First] why must the United States lead the world everywhere on the globe and play the role of the world’s policeman, now for example, he says, in Ukraine? It’s a question. It’s worth a discussion.

“Secondly, [Trump] said, NATO was founded 67 years ago to deter the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union ended 25 years ago. What is NATO’s mission? Is it obsolete? Is it fighting terrorism? No, to the last question, it’s not. Should we discuss NATO’s mission?

“Thirdly, [Trump] asks, why does the United States always pursue regime changes? Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, and now it wants a regime change in Syria, Damascus. When the result is, to use Donald Trump’s favorite word, the result is always “disaster.” But it’s a reasonable question.

“Fourthly, why do we treat Russia and Putin as an enemy when he should be a partner?

“Fifth, Trump asks, about nuclear weapons – and this is interesting. You remember he was asked, would he rule out using nuclear weapons – an existential question. He thought for a while and then he said, ‘No, I take nothing off the table.’ And everybody said he wants to use nuclear weapons! In fact, it is the official American nuclear doctrine policy that we do not take first use off the table. We do not have a no first use of nuclear weapons doctrine. So all Trump did was state in his own way what has been official American nuclear policy for, I guess, 40 or 50 years. …

“It seems to me that these five questions, which are not being discussed by the other presidential candidates, are essential.”

Of course they're essential. They won't be discussed in the corporate media, that's for sure. The US has all its eggs in one physical basket : war; and one imaginary basket : finance. It's losing its wars, although it is simultaneously bringing about unimaginable suffering in all the countries where it is prosecuting those wars ... Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Yemen ... and creating a bone-deep hatred for the US and its citizens world wide. When it finally is seen to have lost all the horrid wars that it's started, its imaginary, financial hegemony will disappear like a puff of smoke as well. And all of us Americans will wake up in the gutter ... gee, what happened?

Posted by: jfl | May 22 2016 23:40 utc | 73

Interesting side note; Thailand has frozen the U.S. out of defense procurements.
The U.S. envoy here, Glyn Davies, has totally pissed off the present government and not a few Thai citizens with his public criticisms...

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 23 2016 1:23 utc | 74

I have little to add @ 72, For info on the two matters I would recommend you use the internal search at
One of the articles may even be a book author. Their archives are fantastic.

Posted by: Penelope | May 23 2016 5:10 utc | 75

Susette @ 56, What a creep the guy is. "the enlightened, bourgeois subject asserting his or her right to be left alone,
which is a claim that by its very implied utterance already reveals the relative privilege of the one making it."
Then he says asserting a woman's right to privacy is sexism cuz it regards her as a feeble victim.
Good lord, if he had a mind he'd take it out & play w it. No, I take it back: that's what he IS doing.
Nobody could call it thinking.

Posted by: Penelope | May 23 2016 5:11 utc | 76

Here is a link about Fukushima from the China press

I find it interesting that China is being more vocal about Fukushima. They certainly have reason to want to be critical of both Japan and the parent US empire but I hope that they are responding to the long term potential threat to humanity that Fukushima is.

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 23 2016 5:21 utc | 77


Not comparable actions, DH the US acted from ignorance and fear during WW2 and released the remaining detainees at the end of the war while the Russians acted after the end of hostilities to ethnically cleanse Crimea for political reasons.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | May 23 2016 6:03 utc | 78

jfl says:

And all of us Americans will wake up in the gutter ... gee, what happened?

Ralph Hubert "Sonny" Barger, founder and lifetime member of Hell's Angels, once said(my brackets), 'there are three kinds of people in this world, those who make things happen[like psychopaths], those who watch things happen[like yours truly], and those who wonder what happened[most everyone else].'

Posted by: john | May 23 2016 9:17 utc | 79

Can anyone, sane, recommend books on 1) The Bosnian war (..)

IHaveLittleToAdd @ 72.

First off, obligatory reading, Diane Johnstone’s book on the Yugoslavia war. You will like it I promise.


As for the Georgian war idk about a good book (? -anyone else?)

Posted by: Noirette | May 23 2016 12:10 utc | 80

Just dropping this spin /spin piece for any one still on the thread . "The Iran Deal Wasn’t About Nukes At All
The Obama administration decided early on that the only way to get the United States out of the Middle East was to replace it with Russia and Iran. Looks like a bit of throwing some of the spin under the bus to save the new spin for another day .....

Posted by: Terry | May 23 2016 13:23 utc | 81

@73 jfl

That podcast was quality listening. Thanks. Makes you wonder, what drives this push eastward...? When does the human cost become far greater than the potential profits and acquisitions...? I guess it says something that the wars of today are just a series of localised spot fires with containment being the key word.

The Eastern push really is insane and cannot end well... NATO truly serves no purpose for the further prosperity in Europe. It is indeed an idle monster after the fall of the Soviets - a monster just sitting there, trying to make itself useful, and failing...simply making trouble. NATO cannot seem to break free of the cold war mentality, it is the west who cannot move on.

The west won, the USSR fell, Russia is open for business...and the best we can manage is more tension...? What a joke fuck off.

Posted by: MadMax2 | May 23 2016 13:36 utc | 82

@78 Absolutely correct. The situation of Japanese immigrants in the US was in no way comparable to the brutality of the Tartars punitive battalions in Yevpatoria.

Posted by: dh | May 23 2016 13:53 utc | 83

Does anyone have any insight with regard to Syrian poetry as described by these articles:

> A 'new poetry' emerges from Syria's civil war

> 'Poetry is a witness' to suffering wrought by Syria's civil war

Anti-war or anti-Assad? Authentic voices or propaganda?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 23 2016 13:58 utc | 84


I see you are also applying for the Stalinist apparatchik position to rewrite history and appease those who can't face the hard facts.

If you had used the Native Americans as a group subject to ethnic cleansing to compare to the Crimean Tatars the reality of their treatment, as a people, would be clear and both actions could be condemned and remembered for the depraved actions they were and still are.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | May 23 2016 14:34 utc | 85

@ 85 Thanks for mentioning Native Americans. I was thinking of talking about Cherokees and Sioux but I chose to go with Japanese because of the WW2 connection.

Over 250,000 Tartars went back to Crimea after Ukrainian independence. To live peacefully no doubt. No more slave trading these days. But for some reason the Mejlis still associate with fascists.

Posted by: dh | May 23 2016 15:03 utc | 86

Today's bombings in Syria: the famous "B Plan" announced by KSA in Geneva recently. With full support of the French if I am to believe the official propaganda (listen to the so called specialist of Yemen on France Culture news at 12h30 today 23 May) where the so called expert praises KSA for being ready to negociate with the Houtis but does not even mention their role in bombing Yemen!

Posted by: Mina | May 23 2016 16:04 utc | 87

rape victim on okinawa...
*I have the scroll. This is a data from, I guess, 1945, and there are young babies who have been raped; women who had babies on their back, women that were digging for potatoes; men that were rape victims...*

*Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said he is outraged at the murder of a 20-year-old Rina Shimabukuro. What do you make of that? Do you think that some measures are going to be implemented any time soon? *

abe the poodle expressing 'outrage' ,
roflmao !!

* I think that the same rhetoric has been happening for the last 70 years, when the Japanese prime minister would come out, and the US military or government official would come out, and they will say the same thing over and over again: "We are angry about what has happened and this will never happen again!" But it has happened again. Now Ms. Rina Shimabukurois dead, and that is just the same thing that keeps on happening every time. *


*Someone needs to start walking the talk. We need to have 24-hour government-funded rape crisis centers. And I have been advocating for that for the last 14 years*

this broad blame the jp for not setting up rape crisis centers !
jeeze lady , why dont u join the jp struggle to kick out the assholes ???

Posted by: denk | May 23 2016 16:30 utc | 88

I think dh's points on the Eurovision episode stand, while wayoutwest's points corroborate dh's position that the judges' decision was politically motivated. (I didn't see dh on any of his posts praising Stalin for the ethnic cleansing of Crimea, nor, more importantly, does Putin.)

Today's Russia is not the USSR. The propaganda conflating the two continues, but that's what it is: propaganda. And sort of the KKK mentality, in my view, promoting international disharmony, violent confrontation. Shame on the judges.

Posted by: juliania | May 23 2016 16:37 utc | 89

@82 MM2

On NATO, there is a great performance by Rick Rozoff, originally linked here by ... guest77?

Posted by: jfl | May 23 2016 17:38 utc | 90

@89 Thanks Juliana. We're used to WOW here. He likes to bring up dead dictators. For every Stalin I raise him two Hitlers.

Posted by: dh | May 23 2016 17:43 utc | 91

While on the topic of deportations, massacres, and concentration camps, what the French did in Algeria was *monstrous.* 2 - or much more *million* people displaced into camps, deprived, x proportion died (starvation, disease.) etc. That is without even mentioning ‘prison’, straight out massacres day by day (sometimes as usual not enough! bullets), regular torture, rape, and even worse atrocities which hurt to write about.

I just googled for a wiki or the like which would situate it, as it is down the memory hole, and the whole first page is only about the Paris massacre of 1961!

Under orders from the head of the Parisian police, Maurice Papon, the French National Police attacked a demonstration of some 30,000 pro-National Liberation Front (FLN) Algerians.

.. wiki doesn’t like to list the no. of victims but *at least* 300 were murdered and thrown in the Seine. In the Center of Paris.

Some of the 1 - 2 page articles make a link between this massacre and the recent Paris terror attacks (Charlie, etc.)

Google stinks. It is amazing how some genocides are never mentioned and others get press 24/24.

This link (in F) gives some text and references etc. There is a book for ex. by Michel Rocard (yes him) which is good or acceptable.

histoire et société

This youtube short (in F) offers some images that are telling without understanding the speech, of course not a proper historical record.

Posted by: Noirette | May 23 2016 19:37 utc | 92

@ juliania 89

I've been working toward a diary on Ukraine, the neo-Nazis looking to overthrow Poroshenko, stop the election in the Donbass, void the Minsk II agreements, etc., and saved this, knowin next to nothing about the history, because #United for Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, Twitter, only want to speak of the Stalinist genocide of the Tatars, and their 'ongoing persecution'.

Bryan McDonald’s Op-ed for RT: ‘Crimea River: Decades after Tatar deportation, situation is far from black & white’

I'm willing to be educated, but not unduly propagandized. ;-)

Posted by: wendy davis | May 23 2016 19:57 utc | 93

Jackrabbit @ 84,
Re Syrian poetry. A search w/in brings up a number of authentic
references, not propaganda.

Posted by: Penelope | May 23 2016 22:19 utc | 94

Terry @ 81, The idea that the US wanted to leave "management' of the middle east in Iranian hands (as a US proxy)
was floated by Thierry Meyssan of at the time of the Iran nuke deal agreement. At that time Sergei
Lavrov said that the way was now clear for Iran to help in the war against terrorism in the mid-east. US then had
the Patriots removed to allow Syrian & Russian aircraft full dominance of the Syrian skies, and the US "didn't
notice" as the Russians set up for action in Syria. Obama consistently refused to re-establish a no-fly over
Northern Syria. I would think there was a Russian-US agreement reached during the ridiculously extended Iran nuke
talks. (Nothing necessarily nefarious here; countries often have secret agreements.)

Further, I think that the Russian passenger plane crash in Egypt was a hoax to bring the Russian people along to the
next stage of escalation, and US & UK helped to put it over by immediately reporting their intelligence that it was
a bomb. Phoney air crashes are accomplished by trucking in old wrecked parts & setting fire to a few bits. The reason
I think it was phoney is that the crash scene was entirely unrealistic. The Egyptians did a really poor job of setting
it up. They set a few big pieces down gingerly on the sand, all right side up. Then they set the wings alight. Nothing,
not even the heavy engine shown made the slightest impact crater. The sand readily took tire tracks. (Again, nothing
necessarily nefarious here. Just another piece of evidence that there was a limited agreement to the Russian engagement
in Syria.)

Posted by: Penelope | May 23 2016 22:59 utc | 95

@95 penelope... you say some intelligent things from time to time, but then go off the deep end every now and again by saying really silly stuff as you have again in your last paragraph here... not sure why you do this as it makes you look really foolish..

Posted by: james | May 23 2016 23:29 utc | 96

I see references in Western media to Syrian poetry 2011-2013 but then little thereafter. The rise of ISIS and their atrocities against artists/writers/journalists meant that anti-regime poetry stopped or seemed less urgent?

What I am wondering is if the anti-regime/pro-revolution poetry was incidental or organized as propaganda to humanize rebels or spread outrage.

BBC: Syrian rebel commander finds solace in poetry
Apparently only days after capturing a border-crossing, a Syrian rebel commander recites his poetry, which "talks about how the Syrian people stood up to the regime and paid with their blood."

The article also informs the reader that: "under the Assad regime anything other than government-sanctioned culture was discouraged. Because art is often a means of dissidence, famous Syrian filmmakers, writers, painters were locked up. The regime continues to target them in today's crackdown."

BBC highlights the following quote: "I picked up my gun but did not put down my pen. During the battle there I wrote poems about the suffering of civilians in the area."

PEN International campaign to protect Syrian writers and journalists from the Syrian Regime (Assad)
Links to a 2012 video by "Creative Syrian Revolution" of a protest where a poets lyrics were used (notes says that the poet was killed by the regime the next day).

Isis kills Syrian poet who opposed Assad government

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 24 2016 0:26 utc | 97

@72 ihlta, @80 noirette

On the Balkans, I just noticed a very interesting paper at the site I associate with guest77 : Bosnia, Kosovo, and Now Libya: The Human Costs of Washington’s On-Going Collusion with Terrorists, 2011.

Posted by: jfl | May 24 2016 4:19 utc | 98

Aha ... typepad hates

@72 ihlta @80 noirette

I just found a paper I found very interesting : "Bosnia, Kosovo, and Now Libya: The Human Costs of Washington’s On-Going Collusion with Terrorists", 2011. It's at slash details slash aQcovertUSally. It was linked to by the page I associate with guest77, slash details slash @altviewstv-fanclub. It's available at ASia Pacific Journal - Japan Focus, as well. Saker has a copy, too.

Posted by: jfl | May 24 2016 4:27 utc | 99

James @ 96,
Not foolish, James. Offensive, because it has become necessary to you to believe that the Russians are never deceitful. what real plane crashes and their impact craters look like.

I think that when investigating anything for which we have video that it's incumbent upon us to begin w the visual evidnce and let it dictate the conclusion. It's not logically permissible to begin with our preconclusions and to allow them to blind us to the visual evidence.
I'm sorry that you feel offended.

Posted by: Penelope | May 24 2016 5:16 utc | 100

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