Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 25, 2016

Open Thread 2016-12

Judas: Still on for Friday?
Jesus: Friday?
Judas: Yeah, the last supper.
Jesus: The what?
Judas: Supper, normal supper with the fellas.


News & views ...

Posted by b on March 25, 2016 at 14:42 UTC | Permalink

next page »
Judas: politicians

Jesus: the people

Will we ever learn?

Thanks for a superb intro to the Open Thread b.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 25 2016 15:25 utc | 1

The Empire Files: Understanding Marxism and Socialism with Richard Wolff

Posted by: ben | Mar 25 2016 15:43 utc | 2

I tried hard to persuade y'all to at least limit the extent of your belief in AGW to the fudged numbers given by the politicized NASA & NOAA, rather than the extremes put out by activists & our usual lying media. I thought that initially you would have believed IPCC AR5 estimate of global warming from 1880 to 2012 is 0.85°C +-0.2°C, which is consistent with our continuing climb out of the Little Ice Age. But even links that showed NASA & NOAA agreed didn't budge some of you.

I thought that after persuading you to limit the extremity of your faith in the propaganda that I could then tell you the rest of the truth. As I have failed there's no reason to hold back the full truth any longer. You needn't believe anything I say; just regard yourself as an anthropologist visiting the backward Skeptic Tribe, of whom there are many. Before I can tell you more I need to give you the Skeptic Tribe's legend of climate history:

The Earth is subject to more periodicities than the 24 hour cycle and the 365-day ones. According to the Greenland ice cores and other corroborating temperature proxies since 1470 the earth has alternately warmed and cooled approximately every 27-30 years. The oceans also alternate warming and cooling. (Pacific Decadal Oscillation and Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation). NASA confirmed in 2008 that the Pacific had entered its 30 year cooling phase, as has the Atlantic. Other periodicities include a 104 year, a 208 year, and a 350 year cycle.

--Cold Events have been superimposed upon these 30 year oscillations of warming and cooling so that sometimes the warming has been attenuated and the earth given over to Cold Events with only diminished warming cycles. The last such event was the Little Ice Age, from about 1300 until about 1860 . The worst cold within this period was within the Maunder Minimum & the Dalton Minimum. Warming cycles during this 5 century! Cold Event were muted.
--Warm Events within the past 10,000 years-- Minoan Warm, Roman Warm (Hannibal crossing the Alps on elephants), Medieval Warm (wine production in Britain & farming in Greenland) & our present Modern Optimum-- had similarly ineffectual 30 year cooling periods.

The US has the most complete temperature records. We had warming from 1917-1944 ; cooling 1945-1977; warming 1977-2005 (the last 7 years of which are thought to have been a standstill); 2005- and continuing: cooling, w El Nino interruptions at first.

We have formed the habit of thinking that the Ice Ages of prehistory are over and that the modern era guarantees a mild climate. We complain about a pleasant 30 year warming cycle because sea level continues to rise annually by 2 mm (the thickness of the wire of 2 paperclips!) and allow the powerful to frighten us into believing our cities will drown. Perhaps it is salutary to remember that in the past million years Major Ice Ages of approximately 100,000 years have alternated with interglacials of 10,000-15,000 years. Our present interglacial is 11,500 years. Our science cannot tell us when the next Major Ice Age will begin.

However, the next Little Ice Age-- that is, the next Cold Event greater than the usual 27-30 year period of alternating cooling/warming HAS ALREADY BEGUN. No one is predicting that the current Cold Event will be as severe or long as the 5-century Little Ice Age. But quite a few of the climatologists who have not become handmaidens of money or politics are predicting a Maunder or Dalton type Cooling. Predictions range from 60 years to 250 years of colder temperature. Nevertheless, falling temperatures will probably not be obvious in 2016 since the 2015/16 El Nino is continuing. (The exception wd be if it is succeeded by La Nina by July). Thereafter descending temperature will probably begin to become more obvious.

Sea Level evidence for the current Cold Event: High quality long tide gauge records from around the world were analysed to determine a mean global sea level history from 1904 to 2003. The mean rate of global sea level rise was found to be "larger in the early part of the last century (2.03 +/- 0.35 mm/yr 1904-1953), in comparison with the latter part (1.45 +/- 0.34 mm/yr 1954-2003)."
The present Sea Level Rise by raw data satellite altimetry is NIL, nothing. The values reported by NASA & NOAA are due entirely to controversial "adjustments" that are made to the data. In 2010 NASA's JPL confirmed that global SLR DROPPED 6mm. The warmist reason: the land and lakes are holding more rainwater than usual.

Temperature evidence for the current Cold Event: The land surface data show no warming since 1998, and a small downward trend 2005-2012. Measurement of ocean temperature was added to try to escape this land surface temperature data. At first this allowed further fudging of the data, but as the Argo Float System has developed this has become more difficult. Some warmists are now admitting that "short-term cooling is occurring, but makes no difference to the long-term warming trend." Politicized entities like NOAA & NASA now resort increasingly to self-contradictory records. There are numerous degradations of the data including the failure to omit temperature stations which express the urban heat island effect, and the 80% of sitings which violate NOAA's own siting regulations. When land-based temperature studies use only rural stations, the warming trend is zero.

The current Sunspot Cycle, Cycle 24, when measured by the comparable scale, is the weakest Cycle in 200 years. It is nearly as weak as Cycle 5, which was concurrent with the Maunder Minimum. To all but warmists solar grand minima coincide with climate cooling. It is thought the cause is that the weakened solar "wind" is less effective in blocking the ubiquitous cosmic rays, and their increased passage into our atmosphere is productive of more clouds, therefore more shading from the Sun's warmth. An intensification of cosmic rays is already observed.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 25 2016 15:51 utc | 3

Wasn't the last supper on Thursday?

Posted by: Ricky | Mar 25 2016 15:53 utc | 4

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 25 2016 15:53 utc | 5

@Penelope 6, 8

1. We have more CO2 in the air than the last ~million years. Knowing the observed relation between CO2 and warming, can you explain why the world would not be warming?

2. Can you explain why the stratosphere is cooling?


Posted by: Jeff | Mar 25 2016 16:04 utc | 6

must see

Posted by: mina | Mar 25 2016 16:14 utc | 7

Blah...., Religion

Syrian Army, Hezbollah officially enter Palmyra City

My heart goes with the Syrians’ army and its allies. Heart breaking to see them fighting inches by inches to free Syria from the terrorists with American-made weapons. It reminds me 60,000 plus young Americans killed in Vietnam and millions of innocents civilian's deaths. I still remember Kent States and My Lai Massacre....

I wonder how many Millennial generation willing to sacrifice their lives in this needless Obomo's war. I still remember the antiwar movements' chanting at Lyndon Johnson... "hey, hey LBJ how many kids you killed today?”

Where are the Millennial Generations why dun they chant at the warmonger-in-Chief in the White House and force him to resign? Oops, forgot 82% Black voted twice for Obomo and now chanting not at the wars but “Black Lives Matter”. How iconic?

Posted by: Jack Smith | Mar 25 2016 16:19 utc | 8
800,000-year Ice-Core Records of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide (CO2)

This page introduces Antarctic ice-core records of carbon dioxide (CO2) that now extend back 800,000 years at Dome C and over 400,000 years at the Vostok site. Links are also provided to shorter records from other Antarctic locations. The 2000-year record from Law Dome, Antarctica, has been merged with modern records and a spline function was fit to the result to provide a 2000-year time series extending to the present.


Over the last 800,000 years atmospheric CO2 levels as indicated by the ice-core data have fluctuated between 170 and 300 parts per million by volume (ppmv), corresponding with conditions of glacial and interglacial periods. The Vostok core indicates very similar trends. Prior to about 450,000 years before present time (BP) atmospheric CO2 levels were always at or below 260 ppmv and reached lowest values, approaching 170 ppmv, between 660,000 and 670,000 years ago. The highest pre-industrial value recorded in 800,000 years of ice-core record was 298.6 ppmv, in the Vostok core, around 330,000 years ago. Atmospheric CO2 levels have increased markedly in industrial times; measurements in year 2010 at Cape Grim Tasmania and the South Pole both indicated values of 386 ppmv, and are currently increasing at about 2 ppmv/year.
Vol. 339, Issue 6123, pp. 1060-1063
DOI: 10.1126/science.1226368
Synchronous Change of Atmospheric CO2 and Antarctic Temperature During the Last Deglacial Warming

Changes in the concentration of atmospheric CO2 and surface air temperature are closely related. However, temperature can influence atmospheric CO2 as well as be influenced by it. Studies of polar ice cores have concluded that temperature increases during periods of rapid warming have preceded increases in CO2 by hundreds of years. Parrenin et al. (p. 1060; see the Perspective by Brook) present a revised age scale for the atmospheric component of Antarctic ice cores, based on the isotopic composition of the N2 that they contain, and suggest that temperature and CO2 changed synchronously over four intervals of rapid warming during the last deglaciation.

Changes in the concentration of atmospheric CO2 and surface air temperature are closely related. However, temperature can influence atmospheric CO2 as well as be influenced by it. Studies of polar ice cores have concluded that temperature increases during periods of rapid warming have preceded increases in CO2 by hundreds of years. Parrenin et al. (p. 1060; see the Perspective by Brook) present a revised age scale for the atmospheric component of Antarctic ice cores, based on the isotopic composition of the N2 that they contain, and suggest that temperature and CO2 changed synchronously over four intervals of rapid warming during the last deglaciation.

Understanding the role of atmospheric CO2 during past climate changes requires clear knowledge of how it varies in time relative to temperature. Antarctic ice cores preserve highly resolved records of atmospheric CO2 and Antarctic temperature for the past 800,000 years. Here we propose a revised relative age scale for the concentration of atmospheric CO2 and Antarctic temperature for the last deglacial warming, using data from five Antarctic ice cores. We infer the phasing between CO2 concentration and Antarctic temperature at four times when their trends change abruptly. We find no significant asynchrony between them, indicating that Antarctic temperature did not begin to rise hundreds of years before the concentration of atmospheric CO2, as has been suggested by earlier studies.

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 25 2016 16:28 utc | 9

Addendum to #11

I still remember receiving the draft notice from the selective boards while a freshman in college. Ignore it and kept it for years until I disposed it in 2008 housing bubble meltdown.

It would have been good if the selective board revives and force every able body to fight Obomo's wars. We will soon have massive protest and repeat "hey, hey Obomo how many kids you killed today?”

Posted by: Jack Smith | Mar 25 2016 16:38 utc | 10

anyone following this story? - Reza Zarrab: Turkey reels from gold bullion scandal as spotlight lands on Erdogan allies..

Posted by: james | Mar 25 2016 17:02 utc | 11

As the Syrian Army and Hezbollah enters Palmyra City for the first time after they lost it in 2014, it’s the beginning of a new chapter for the Syrian army. It's not the end of the war but the beginning of a long struggle ahead. All the while Obomo went to Cuba, now in Argentina to set groundwork for future endless wars... BTW Argentina now rules by the 1% a gift to Paul Singer.

Bravo Democratic party and all it presidential hopeful. Democratic party is a warmonger party outstrips the Repug. Just to be clear, I'm no Repug and have no love for them.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Mar 25 2016 17:03 utc | 12

Mina at 10, link. Absolutely priceless!

I just posted to a pop French board (under moderation and prob. won’t make the gate) that F. djihadists in 2010, 11, and on, who went to Syria to fight against Assad were defending their own country -France, Belgium- as they were totally in line with their Gvmts policy. Against Assad! (Then they returned to plant bombs at home, etc.)
That may seem trivial and ignoring all the factors that ‘create’ terrorists (exclusion, no jobs, radicalisation in prisons and the like) but … It appears to me after looking about and some info acquired personally, that the F ‘terrorists’ who went to fight against Assad were between tolerated and encouraged.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 25 2016 17:13 utc | 13

been reading your interesting blog on Syria regularly.
but i'm dissapointed you had to take a swipe at the christian faith in order to score points with your audience. u sure did not impress me.

Posted by: frin | Mar 25 2016 17:30 utc | 14

Seems someone has saved up and Provisioned Prodigious Piles of Penelope Poo for the weekend. Penelope hasn't the education, intelligence or capacity to distinguish science from 'creation science' and insists on selling something someone has created to win a fraudulent argument, and persists on repeating the shite believing at some point the shite will actually grow something - it won't, it is sterile, barren, unproductive. Penelope will go through life never having an original idea and would not know what to do if one occurred. Penelope is a cut and paste whore, prostituting knowledge with false, misleading and deceptive opinion; a method developed by the tobacco industry to avoid the responsibility that smoking caused cancer. It would be nice if Penelope would take the product being pandered onto a site where it more resembles the tone of the site - creation science and that ilk come immediately to mind. Penelope - get lost until you can adhere to the zeitgeist of the site. MoA is not such a site.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Mar 25 2016 17:43 utc | 15

definitely encouraged; same for this guy who managed to get caught twice in two months by the Turks and expeled back to 1) Amsterdam 2) ?? without them saying exactly why and without the Dutch/Belgians finding him on the US blacklist.
interesting radio programme about EU weapon lobby making its best to let weapons be sold online and elsewhere without any control

Posted by: Mina | Mar 25 2016 17:51 utc | 16

@16 noirette @19 mina

And who was pulling the strings in France at the time? Do you credit the US or Israel?

Posted by: jfl | Mar 25 2016 19:41 utc | 17

Or did the French go crazy all on their own?

Posted by: jfl | Mar 25 2016 19:41 utc | 18

(mina at 19 yes.)

Terrorist attacks in Europe and germane to the Syria thread.

Daesh, Deserters and their testimonies.

Doc, Arte (mainstream TV French-German) 55 mins.

Voice over: French. Subs: English. Available till May 14 (for me from Europe)

Not great but v. informative for ppl who know little about Daesh / IS. Note the number of foreign fighters, attitudes towards them.


10 mins. you tube, Islamic youth sympathisers in Moelenbeek (Belgium, where the Brussels terrorists hung out). In French, but no need to understand the language.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 25 2016 19:45 utc | 19

N.F.L.’s Flawed Concussion Research and Ties to Tobacco Industry

Some retired players have likened the N.F.L.’s handling of its health crisis to that of the tobacco industry, which was notorious for using questionable science to play down the dangers of cigarettes.

The manipulation of research regarding concussions is just one of many examples of wealthy, powerful interests subverting truth for their own benefit. Others included:
>> The Tobacco Industry;

>> Manipulated Intelligence preceding the Iraq War;

>> The sub-prime mortgage scandal

>> Libor fixing scandal

>> Enron

>> VW's manipulation of car emissions;

>> Minimizing environmental damage of the Gulf Oil Spill by using toxic chemicals to break up the oil;

>> and many many more.

The fact is, our legal and political system virtually guarantees that such manipulations and cover-ups will occur. Corporate executives have a fiduciary duty to shareholders which makes financial results their only concern and money-in-politics means that politicians serve corporate and wealthy interests over the interests of the people.

Global warming has been attacked in waves. First there were claims it was a hoax, then the scientists were attacked; then claims that cutting back on oil use would mean job losses; etc. Now we are seeing a new wave where it is claimed that it is a conspiracy of bankers (wrong: the bankers want a solution that would be advantageous to them but that effort is independent of the scientific findings) and that the science itself is wrong.

Given past history of corporate scandal and the systemic corruption that our legal and political system encourage, it is reasonable to believe that climate change deniers and skeptics are funded or otherwise encouraged by those who have a financial incentive to do so: the fossil fuel industry.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 25 2016 19:49 utc | 20

jfl, at 20.

Hard to sort out,, but the old colonialist impulse (back to Sykes-Picot) is a strong lede. To ‘retake’ some of the ressources and have some powerful control in Lybia - Sarkozy, not just Hillary C. Syria: Hollande and ex-FM Fabius, being the prime movers of *Assad must go*, now overriden by a US-Russia alliance..The Free Syrian Army was actually very much an F creation imho..

France on the world stage and so on! Partnering with other war-mongers. And of course probably the most important, simply sucking up to world potentates (ex. KSA) to get contracts, money. A foreign policy gone amuck to favor those in the top seats, Young Leaders trained in the US, closet Zionists, Israel-supporters, and so on, all on various takes and belonging to the dominant class, determined to dumb down and control the French ppl. The model is the US, but in fact they are fighting for their survival within the EU.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 25 2016 20:19 utc | 21

Jeff, Al Gore presents in his video a graph showing that a rise in temperature and in CO2 are simultaneous across a historical swathe. Five years earlier when ice core studies were still crude ice cores did appear to show this. But at the time of his video new studies had shown that CO2 actually trailed rising temperatures by hundreds of years (and is therefore not causal).

The reason is that the solubility of CO2 in seawater depends on its temperature. The ocean is a gigantic heat sink, so large that it takes a long time for the entirety to heat or cool. Just think: The last major Ice Age ended 12,000 years ago and the ice is STILL melting (or in the case of Antarctica, NOT). Well, heating the ocean enough to give off CO2 doesn't take as long as melting huge quantities of ice, but apparently it takes hundreds of years. As it warms, CO2 comes out of solution. I think the ocean holds 75 times more CO2 than the atmosphere. Japanese satellite data has confirmed that most of the CO2 comes from the equatorial area, rather than the developed northern hemisphere.

But of course burning fossil fuels does put some CO2 into the atmosphere. In all the past warmings from ice ages CO2 didn't cause warming since it followed the warming. But what caused OUR warming from 1975 to 1998? Skeptics say, "the same thing that caused our warming from about 1919 to 1944 (before we were adding much CO2 to the atmosphere)." And "the same thing that brought us out of the Little Ice Age that ended about 1860." The Sun. Its mass is more than 99.8% of our solar system.

I believe the IPCC has admitted that Increasing CO2 in the atmosphere, even doubling or tripling it could BY ITSELF increase the temperature only by a tiny amount. I'm pretty sure everybody agrees that 95% of the potential for CO2 to raise the temperature comes from it's ability to raise water vapor in the atmosphere. The theory is that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, so raises the temp slightly, which increases the ability of the air to hold more water vapor, which raises the temp, which raises water vapor, etc. We are in a vicious circle.

Jeff, I'm going to make a ridiculous argument, and I want you to notice only the FORM of the argument: My orange tree made twice as many oranges as last year and 4x as the year before so in time the county will be buried in oranges. A ludicrous argument only because you and I understand orange trees. But observe the FORM of my fallacious agument:

"A linear (or geometric) trend will not encounter a countervailing factor or negative feedback and will continue until catastrophe."

Look how many assumptions the CO2 theory makes. Off the top of my head, it's not linear-- it's logarithmic. The IPCC even says so somewhere; if you want I'll find it for you. Meantime here's this .

If water vapor goes up clouds may increase, thus shading (cooling). It is not even demonstrated that water vapor will go up due to increased CO2: Just one example: NASA analysis shows water vapor went down 1995-2001, while CO2 went up.

I don't know what all the countervailing factors or negative feedbacks are; I don't think anyone does. The climate system is complicated. But if you want to test any theory, surely you look to see whether it can predict the future; it's failed. There is an immense amount of skullduggery to cover this up. It's a power-grab by TPTB thru the UN and energy/development policy.

Nor can it account for the past. Proponents have changed the records for the 30s (70 years later!) because a time warmer than the late 90s contradicts the theory. It contradicts 100s of studies which confirm that the Medieval Warm Period was global and warmer than the late 90s.)

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 25 2016 20:47 utc | 22

Denis @ 2:

If you're looking for the legally culpable party, that had to be the Roman prefect of Judaea at the time and that man was Pontius Pilate. The Gospels however say that he was reluctant to execute Jesus and his hand was forced by the rabbinical authorities, who kept harping on about Jesus' claim to be King of the Jews (and thus a threat to Roman authority in Judaea), and their rent-a-mob crowds baying for his blood. That is why in some Gospel accounts PP goes to some extraordinary lengths to disavow responsibility for Jesus' execution by giving the crowds a choice between executing Jesus and executing a known criminal (Barabbas) and washing his hands in public.

But the point of the Gospel accounts is not to sheet the blame home on any one particular person or authority: the emphasis is that everyone in some small way - even the disciples themselves, either by reporting him to the authorities (Judas), denying their association with him (Peter) or fleeing the scene (nearly all of them) - were to blame for Jesus' betrayal and death. That's supposed to be a lesson for all of us.

Posted by: Jen | Mar 25 2016 20:50 utc | 23

@24 n

So the French went crazy all on their own. Terror's not exclusively an Anglo-AmericanZionist franchise, is it? I wonder, is Franco-American still on the shelves? Ah ... it is. But it's now a TNC. Actually been so since 1915.

Posted by: jfl | Mar 25 2016 20:52 utc | 24

Jeff @ 9,
"We have more CO2 in the air than the last ~million years."

Jeff, There are many exceptions, but dealing w the most recent---

Study from the Law Dome Antarctic ice cores:

The first “record high” CO2 level was set in 1809, at a time when cumulative anthropogenic carbon emissions had yet to exceed the equivalent of 0.2 ppmv CO2?
From 1750 to 1875, atmospheric CO2 rose at ten times the rate of the cumulative anthropogenic emissions…

Cumulative anthropogenic emissions didn’t “catch up” to the rise in atmospheric CO2 until 1960…

The emissions were only able to “catch up” because atmospheric CO2 levels stalled at ~312 ppmv from 1940-1955.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 25 2016 21:05 utc | 25

Jackrabbit @ 23

This from the superrich Rockfeller Family Fund announcing its divestment from ExonMobil, the worlds superrich oil exploration company

“We would be remiss if we failed to focus on what we believe to be the morally reprehensible conduct on the part of ExxonMobil"

“Evidence appears to suggest that the company worked since the 1980s to confuse the public about climate change’s march, while simultaneously spending millions to fortify its own infrastructure against climate change’s destructive consequences and track new exploration opportunities as the Arctic’s ice receded,”

“These are not decisions, therefore, that have been taken lightly or without much consideration of their import,”

Posted by: DavidKNZ | Mar 25 2016 21:15 utc | 26

re 23

climate change deniers and skeptics are funded or otherwise encouraged by those who have a financial incentive to do so: the fossil fuel industry.
I'd be surprised to hear that Penelope is one of those. So others do exist.

While you are right in many ways, there are also financial interests among climate change scientists. Careers to make, new grants to get. I happen to think that the issues are far more complicated than our simplistic scientists think. I was interested recently to follow up an article in the Guardian whose title was "Syria’s drought 'has likely been its worst in 900 years'". I read the scientific study which was behind the article. It was entitled Spatiotemporal drought variability in the Mediterranean over the last 900 years in the Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres. I read the article, and there hidden in a single sentence, it was revealed that they had no data points at all in Syria. It was all interpolated from other Mediterranean countries. And yet it was thought worth making a big publicity thing.

Incidentally, 900 years ago (around 1100 AD) has been thought since the sixties, to be the end of the so-called Early Medieval warm period, and the 900 years covers the supposed "Little Ice Age", when rainfall levels in Jerusalem even in the 19th century have been shown to be far higher than today. However our authors don't know that, because they've just taken one set of data, and reached a conclusion.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 25 2016 21:28 utc | 27

PS I'm not being paid by the fossil-fuel industry.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 25 2016 21:29 utc | 28

Jeff @ 9, " Can you explain why the stratosphere is cooling?"

For 60 years, warmists insisted that the heat missing from the surface must be in an equatorial hotspot in the troposphere. Hundreds of thousands of weather balloons were sent up equipped to radio back the temperatures. It was not found, altho there was a short-term fraud when somebody claimed to find it.

Finally, a 2014 paper suggests that stratospheric cooling is a “more suitable” signal of AGW than trying to find a hot spot in the troposphere. The paper asks whether the cooling of the stratosphere may have been proceeding since before we began to monitor it, and if this extended cooling (if it has been occurring) might require explaining. And (if it is occurring) might it be related to climate change?
Sorry, Jeff, I lost patience w this nebulous idea. If you think there's substantial cooling of the stratosphere & think it presents evidence for warming, please relate the argument or give me a link.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 25 2016 21:34 utc | 29

Almost all research grants come from the govt directly, or from the govt via academia. The universities put pressure upon their scientists to bring in research dollars.

If you search for climate skeptic you will bring up 1,000s of warmist sites because google too is stacked against the skeptic position.

You see that Obama is for the warmist position. You see that the media carries exaggerated scare stories in favor of it.

How can you possibly deceive yourself that they are acting AGAINST Big Oil? Big Oil/Big Banking CONTROLthe media and administration. They are all on the same side.

Their goal is what it's always been-- global govt. They want to halt development, decrease population and turn energy management over to "the UN" (really themselves). It's a gigantic public relations program to usher in an important step in the NWO.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 25 2016 21:59 utc | 30

re 12

Rising CO2, inevitable in the modern world, should lead to more warming, but it's not certain from historical evidence that it is more important than other factors. The relationship doesn't seem very close. As Penelope has been telling us.

On the other hand, we are all likely to be asphyxiated by the level of pollution. That seems certain.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 25 2016 22:00 utc | 31

re 33.

How can you possibly deceive yourself that they are acting AGAINST Big Oil? Big Oil/Big Banking CONTROLthe media and administration. They are all on the same side.
Pity you go in for conspiracy theories. I regret supporting you earlier.

Posted by: Laguerre | Mar 25 2016 22:13 utc | 32

Major methane release is almost inevitable

We are on the cusp of a tipping point in the climate. If the global climate warms another few tenths of a degree, a large expanse of the Siberian permafrost will start to melt uncontrollably. The result: a significant amount of extra greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere, and a threat – ironically – to the infrastructure that carries natural gas from Russia to Europe.

The article is from 2013. This melting process has already started.

Here's why methane is a might bit scarier than CO2:

Global Warming’s Terrifying New Chemistry

... molecule for molecule, this unburned methane is much, much more efficient at trapping heat than carbon dioxide.

And permafrost is only the 'tip of the iceberg':

Ocean methane hydrates as a slow tipping point in the global carbon cycle

A family friend and I were discussing the danger of methane clathrates 15 years ago!!! This info is just now starting to seep into the 'mainstream blogosphere'.

@Penelope...You've been co-opted, compromised. You're being used to sew doubt. But while you study your cherry-picked realities, Gaia is off making up new realities for us to ponder. Hope you like eating insects, 'cause crop failure is imminent.

Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | Mar 25 2016 22:25 utc | 33

@ tony - that comes across as pretty derogatory.. if you are hoping people will ignore you - you are off to a good start!

Posted by: james | Mar 25 2016 23:05 utc | 34

Penelope @23

The conspiracy of silence that you propose is just hogwash.

I know that peer-review has been raised in earlier conversations with you.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 25 2016 23:32 utc | 35

jackrabbit @ 23:

"Given past history of corporate scandal and the systemic corruption that our legal and political system encourage, it is REASONABLE TO BELIEVE that climate change deniers and skeptics are funded or otherwise encouraged by those who have a financial incentive to do so: the fossil fuel industry."

operative few words: "reasonable to believe"

Bottom line..Man made activity is destroying the eco-system. pick one. Changes NEED to be made.

Posted by: ben | Mar 25 2016 23:46 utc | 36

Hillary and Transparency:

Posted by: ben | Mar 26 2016 0:03 utc | 37

Plenty of bad theology here. Condemnation of Iscariot, the apostles, Pilate, etc. is absurd. I'm a practicing atheist, by I remember my catechism and sunday school.

In Christian theology, Christ's blood is need for the forgiveness of sin. Instead of the yearly sacrifice of a lamb for personal forgiveness of current sins by Hebrews, the eternal Yahweh's big innovation was to sacrifice the Lamb of God, aka the Christ, aka Jesus of Nazareth, for the universal expatiation of all sins for everyone.

So to condemn Judas as a "politician betraying the people" is both foolishly anachronistic; it employs modern concepts to a time in which they were unknown. Judea was after all a theocratic province in an empire, and Herod a king. Neither organization really cares much about "the people," except as a source of taxes and soldiers.

It makes about as much sense as condemning the Jews as "Christ Killers," as standard anti-semitism does. All were playing their required parts, even Jesus, whose doubts in the garden of Gethsemane prompted him to ask Dad, "let this cup pass."

So I wonder, when might the good Dr. Stein get her 30 pcs. of silver? That was the standard monthly wage of a skilled worker in the period, so she'd be selling herself cheap. Well, she is a big time doctor at MassGeneral, if memory serves, so perhaps she'll get a higher rate.

Since it's the season, a favorite cut from Jesus Christ Superstar -- King Herod's Song. Prove to me that you're divine, change my water into wine! Personally, I might find that convincing. A round of Manischevitz Red for the house!

Posted by: rufus magister | Mar 26 2016 0:55 utc | 38

Lies of biblical studies

Happy Easter

Posted by: EasterTruth | Mar 26 2016 1:57 utc | 39

Posted by: rufus magister | Mar 25, 2016 8:55:11 PM | 42

Examining cherry-picked micro-details of a fabricated fairy tale doesn't change the fact that the 10 Commandments are Edicts intended to serve, and prioritise, the interests of the financially comfy above the interests of the peasants. The other 99.99999% of the Holy Bible is Noamian filler (pointless verbosity).

If The Bible's Foreword had been the 10 Commandments, instead of some questionable History/ Histrionics, nobody would have bothered to read what followed.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 26 2016 2:04 utc | 40

If Tolkien had written the Bible he'd have called it Lords of the Cringe.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 26 2016 2:12 utc | 41

Perimetr @ 12, The paper you cite cherry-picks data to fill his mission of "rescuing" the AGW theory. It's well known that there are historical periods w increasing CO2 accompanied by falling temperatures, and even by an ice age.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 3:05 utc | 42

Penelope and others,

I would like to encourage folks to read the book called Agnotology which is a compilation of research defining the term agnotology. The short definition of the term is "the manufacturing of ignorance" and we comment about it here consistently.

The book touched on the bigger implications of all this misdirection, obfuscation and outright lies but, IMO, didn't really speak to the effects of this over saturation of real or contrived crises. It keeps everyone from focusing on the underlying structural issues with our form of social organization.

So you all keep spewing your textual white noise about the crisis of the moment, IMO, and I will continue to rant about how I see private finance and inheritance as being the issues all should focus on so shit will change!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 26 2016 4:09 utc | 43

"In short, the phenomenon known as "ISIS" is not a temporal aberration within Islam but rather a byproduct of what is considered normative thinking for Al Azhar—the Islamic world's most authoritative university."

Posted by: ATW | Mar 26 2016 4:21 utc | 44

DavidKNZ @ 29,

The Bankers pretended to be against the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. They convinced people that it would limit their power-- by campaigning against it.

Warmists claim that 91 conservative think tanks spend $900 million on climate skepticism. Reality: AEI & Heritage account for 30 percent of the spending-- but they and others allocate only 10% to skepticism. Instead, they largely fund efforts for carbon taxes and other GW restrictions. As usual they're funding both sides, but mostly AGAINST the skeptic side.

Who funds Warmists? Virtually all the govt grants for research, either direct or filtered thru academia to warmists. Also there's all the free advocacy from the media and the administration.

Greenpeace and Nature Conservancy raise $1 Bil per year-- and not from the public! I don't know much about Greenpeace. But Nature Conservancy receives money from many, many foundations. Notably from George Soros and his Open Society Institute. After all their blather about Skeptics receiving $156 million in donated funds ("laundered" they called them)-- after all that, much of Nature Conservancy's funds are "laundered" thru the Tides Foundation. Taxpayer money from lots of govt agencies is laundered thru Tides, too.

Pretty unlikely the Skeptics' skimpy budget is supplemented by the poor taxpayer.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 4:40 utc | 45

LaGuerre @ 35, Thanks for reasonableness. I don't know how bad the Syrian drought was, but I know its impact was made much worse by the Turks building literally 100s of dams on the Tigis-Euphrates.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 4:42 utc | 46

LaGuerre @ 35,
I'm shocked that you should take exception to my saying the media's controlled. Can you explain otherwise the consistent misrepresentation of foreign policy? You don't think they purposely lie about (demonize) countries and leaders that they're planning to attack? Do you know they've long-since repealed the prohibition against using govt propaganda programs on the American people? The very last shred of it was called the Smith-Munson Act I think.

Nearly all the media is owned by 6 large TNCs. When the media execs air stories that they know are false, or when they pass on stories while avoiding obvious questions I call that a controlled media.

I'll give you a few snippets from my file to see if you don't agree:

Pacifica Radio, including Amy Goodman's "Democracy Now!" is supported by foundation money. I thought maybe they were honest anyway. But. . . you're familiar w the horrendous bombing campaign against Libya & what sort of a country it was before? Amy interviewed her correspondent in Libya who reported people were dancing in the streets w joy at having gotten rid of Gaddafi. When Amy asked about the bomb damage, her employee replied, "oh, I didn't see any." I had read a long list of bombed facilities by an alternative Canadian correspondent. It included just about everything you could think of including all 7 hospitals in the capital, electricity & water works, School & Foundation for the Blind, orphanage, a manmade river, vast underground reservoirs, etc ad nauseum.
What Amy covers is very limited indeed. Pacifica's other news programs frequently carry propaganda, but you wouldn't know it unless you already knew the truth.
Sorry, I was really disappointed about that one.

OK, here's from the file:
11/3/15 Good for her! She didn't let her successful career make her forget her ideals. Udo Ulfkotte reveals in his bestseller Bought Journalists, how he was "taught to lie, to betray and not to tell the truth to the public." The former editor of Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, which is one of Germany’s largest newspapers, was secretly on the payroll of the CIA and German secret service, spinning the news in a way that was positive for the United States and bad for its opponents. Recently, the German journalist Udo Ulfkotte wrote a book, Bought Journalists, in which he reported that every significant European journalist functions as a CIA asset.
The media disguises the reality. During the Clinton regime, six mega-media companies were permitted to acquire 90% of the US print, TV, radio, and entertainment media, a concentration that destroyed diversity and independence. Today the media throughout the Western world serves as a Propaganda Ministry for Washington. The Western media is Washington’s Ministry of Truth.
Phil Donahue (MSNBC) and Peter Arnett (NBC), both of whom were fired for expressing opposition to the Bush regime’s illegal attack on Iraq. The fact that Donahue had NBC’s highest rated program did not give him journalistic independence. Anyone who speaks the truth in the American print or TV media or on NPR is immediately fired.
-Media says 3/29/2014 that Turkey banned youtube to hide monetary corruption. Liars! Was to hide publication of tape of Turkey meeting at which false flag upon Turkey was planned to cause NATO war against Syria. Those of us in the US who hadn't heard the tape wouldn't learn of it thru our media. Top story of cabinet-level officials.
Surely you know the truth of many happenings only thru the net, and have heard them falsified by the media. How do you think this happens? Do you suppose that individual reporters or producers just happen to make identical decisions to deprive people of the truth? Surely that is as the result of a controlled media, no?

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 5:37 utc | 47

Ricky @7

I'm definitely no expert but considering that the Sabbath (Saturday) commences at sundown Friday then surely Friday commenced at sundown Thursday? The following from Wikipedia

According to halakha (Jewish religious law), Shabbat is observed from a few minutes before sunset on Friday evening until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday nigh

Posted by: Cortes | Mar 26 2016 6:12 utc | 48

Dr. Wellington Yueh @ 36,

This is why "peer-reviewed" has become irrelevant. It's astounding how little basis there is for these scare stories. The people behind the entire AGW hoax want you scared so that you won't oppose their power grab thru the UN treaty which will progressively stop development-- among other things.

Please don't uncritically allow just anything into your mind. Where is your critical faculty? At a minimum, try to learn the opposing side of the controversy, the one that's NOT trying to scare you. WhatsUpWithThat is probably the best all-around source to learn the other side. You just search WUWT arctic methane.

Here's a few bits:
Research continues on this frontier of climate science. Such as this good news, that much of the arctic tundra might absorb methane, not release it: “An active atmospheric methane sink in high Arctic mineral cryosols” by M C Y Lau et al, The ISME Journal, August 2015. Here’s an ungated copy. The Princeton press release tells the story.
Here's the link the above stuff comes from: It also covers methane-eating bacteria; if it warms they'll eat 5-30 times as much. I t also tells you what the IPCC says about methane.

There are at least 3 more methane articles on WUWT. I remember that one of them actually tells you the strength of methane as a greenhouse gas-- it was very low, if I remember right.

Do a little research. Really, it's much more comfortable than allowing yourself to be manipulated emotionally. Sorry to be so bossy.


Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 6:18 utc | 49

hw at 44 --

It's interesting to note that any number of millenial sects in Christianity (e.g., Levellers, Anabaptists) have intrepreted the message of the Bible as a blueprint for liberation. The took the communalism of the early Church as an inspiration.

Blacks in the American South as well picked up on the liberatory prospects of Exodus and other texts.

This is not to say that others have not taken a more authority-centered interpretation; could be why the Gospels were long kept from the laity and indeed most of the clergy. "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." (John 8:32) Of course, getting to the truth is always the tricky part.

If you drop the Deity-specific instructions for veneration (no graven images, no other gods), the Commandments are fairly logical rules for social life.

Respect for your parents is pretty obvious; you owe them everything, especially as a child. And when one gets to be a parent, the utility of the rule becomes obvious.

Societies are built on trust -- so don't lie. People have put their sweat into their stuff, foodstuffs keep you alive, so don't take their stuff. Later prophets extended this to kings taking from their subjects; the destruction of Judea and Israel by the Assyrians and Babylonians was a punishment for this.

You get to stealing and adultery through coveting. Theft can all to often involve murder, and adultery the same. And lies are quite convenient in evading guilt for coveting, stealing, murder, and adultery.

While I doubt his divinity, I'd say we could be reasonably sure that Jesus of Nazareth lived.

My Western Civ. prof. many years ago argued that his biography (the Gospels, in their variants), being the largest number of such works preserved from antiquity, suggested he did. But this could reflect bias of the later copyists; substantial numbers of secular works did not survive the medieval period.

Better proof, I think -- Pliny says the Romans killed him, in a noted letter to the emperor requesting guidance on the issue of executing Christians.

He has a number of wise observations. His summation of the law and the prophets is one -- love the deity, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I have problems with the former, but am totally down with the later.

But this also means, it seesm to me, after forgiving a substantial number of offenses ("seven times seventy"), payback is in order.

Let me close with a little "come to Jesus" music. Patsy Cline & Willie Nelson go for a little walk.

Posted by: rufus magister | Mar 26 2016 6:50 utc | 50

ps -- Unless one is even more thorough than I am (or long-winded, to taste), aren't we all cherry picking here, pretty much all the time? I would not say this is the pits.

Posted by: rufus magister | Mar 26 2016 6:54 utc | 51

Oh, dear Pen... I'm not the lighweight you seem to think I am.

Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | Mar 26 2016 7:13 utc | 52

These are 15 year old kids and they have nothing "Islamic" apart from the state religion in which most of their parents were born.
Representative of the X generation. "No future" youth doing cheap provocations (possibly paid documentary). In many places the "Salafists" are actually doing the job of turning them away from guns etc.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 26 2016 7:40 utc | 53

jfl #20
F gov has never been so good at selling wepaons manufactured by half-subsidized companies (Dassault etc)

Posted by: Mina | Mar 26 2016 7:42 utc | 54

Not al Azhar but KSA
or yes, al Azhar, since they have started being subsidized in disguise ("write" a book and publish it with us, we'll pay you a good sum, bring your family on pilgrimage)by KSA
But who is behind KSA if not US/UK? recently joined by F to help it fight the strong economic crisis?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 26 2016 7:47 utc | 55

@ Dr. Wellington Yueh | Mar 26, 2016 3:13:33 AM | 56

Some caution there with Penelope, the gal is off her meds, so to speak, and you are witnessing another of her episodes of obsessive compulsive disorders. Penelope seems convinced only she has any answer to any missing knowledge, no one else has even a clue. Penelope, alone in all the world, despite the countless hours millions have spent in obtaining higher education studying all the scientific accumulation of knowledge over all time, has the only correct answer. Go back into the archives here and observe Penelope at her apogee re conspiracy for almost everything under the sun - a study in itself, gratefully Penelope has quieted along those lines of late. No, Penelope will be Penelope, doG itself could not change that, and mere mortals aren't about to either. It would be interesting to see how much traffic Penelope could generate with a Penelope's Plentiful Piles of Poo site - the answer would be revealing but Penelope, like the remora needs the movement of some self propelled entity (e.g. MoA) in order to transport their ideas. It is sad really, but not up there with tragedy. Penelope is a loser, plain and simple.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Mar 26 2016 7:55 utc | 56

@47 psycho

Yeah ... rant away. But your message is a one-liner ... no attempt to flesh out how we might get from here to there. It's like a prayer to the tooth fairy. We all know what your dream is ... somehow, someway, someone will make private finance go away, and initiate an inheritance tax with teeth for the outliers on the wealth scale. We all hope it comes true, too.

Posted by: jfl | Mar 26 2016 8:43 utc | 57

Why "Global Warming" Failed & Why Climate Change is Real

Posted by: ATW | Mar 26 2016 8:47 utc | 58

This film should be shown to wanabee djihadists
"We were four lions"

Posted by: Mina | Mar 26 2016 10:01 utc | 59

ATW @ 45:

Regret to inform you that your Raymond Ibrahim quotation comes from Middle East Forum, whose President is that well-known neocon supporter Daniel Pipes. Pipes is notorious for being Islamophobic and a zealous Zionist supporter.

One could assume therefore that MEF selectively posts articles and quotes people with a view to whipping up Islamophobia and pushing support for Israeli policies that destabilises the Middle East further and sends even more Muslim refugees into the West. All to clear out the territory that will be incorporated into Eretz Israel.

The Raymond Ibrahim quotation may well contain a kernel of truth about Al Azhar University, insofar as it is a major cultural and educational institution in Egypt, likely to be supported by the Egyptian government and possibly other Middle Eastern governments including the KSA and other Gulf oil sheikhdoms, so its leading scholars are likely to have been vetted by these governments and other Islamic scholars, and those who make the grade and become university academics will be those whose opinions are very conformist. In this respect, Al Azhar University is probably no different from, say, Catholic universities in the West.

Posted by: Jen | Mar 26 2016 12:15 utc | 60

Dutch Referendum On Ukraine and Sarah Palin's Disciples

Astonishing which persons are influencing Dutch politics as an unusual referendum will be voted on in a fortnight: Should the EU accept the Ukraine as a member state. After all the anti-Putin propaganda spewed by western media in recent years, the coup d'état of February 2014 in shich dozens died on the street of Kiev and the downing of Malaysia passenger jet flight MH-17, the result of the Dutch vote is uncertain.

A Dutch newspaper published an opinion piece, authored by one of Sarah Palin's disciples ... WTF! The article is wholly inaccurate and filled with lies.

A Vote Against Ukraine is a Vote For Putin by Joshua Livestro and Michiel van Hulten

Posted by: Oui | Mar 26 2016 12:43 utc | 61

#Bruslog: Joshua Livestro: ‘GeenStijl rent voor Poetin, ook zonder beloning’

Maandag was de aftrap van de voor-campagne voor het referendum over het associatieverdrag tussen de EU en Oekraïne. Voorstanders hebben zich verenigd in de Stichting Stem Voor Nederland, die met geld van George Soros campagne gaat voeren voor een ‘ja’. Een gesprek met voorzitter Joshua Livestro over referenda, Oekraïne en buitenlands geld: “Het lijkt me redelijk dat de burger weet wat er aan geld is binnengekomen bij Stem Voor Nederland en waaraan het is uitgegeven.”

Posted by: Oui | Mar 26 2016 12:45 utc | 62

Posted by: rufus magister | Mar 26, 2016 2:50:27 AM | 51

I could smell a looming Happy Days Denial-fest when you said (4th par)...

"If you drop the Deity-specific instructions for veneration (no graven images, no other gods), the Commandments are fairly logical rules for social life."

Yippee! Way to go, Rufus!
Just "forget" the Blokey supremacist misogyny, jealousy, and chattel prattle, and wank eloquent about how enlightened the left-overs are.
And then excuse yourself for cherry-picking by blaming "we all" ...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 26 2016 13:40 utc | 63

Brokered Convention to benefit the Trotskyite Liberal Neocon "Establishment"? Rule 40 B "The Romney Rule"

Posted by: Daniel Shays | Mar 26 2016 13:53 utc | 64

in re 64 --

No, I'm observing your hypocrisy. I guess your abundance of abuse reflects the paucity of your arguments.

Posted by: rufus magister | Mar 26 2016 14:55 utc | 65

12;Yes,i am from democratic stock myself,a lifelong democrat,my dad being a party pres for my town back in the 60s,but these demoncrats are all ziotraitors.As are most of the rethugs.
Global warming?I see no rise,and I live by the shore.
Whatever its reality,I see no chance of neocapitalism correction,as they only worship mammon,and Zion.

Posted by: dahoit | Mar 26 2016 15:04 utc | 66

I’m always amazed, truly shocked (well not really) that in discussions of the causes of global warming as due to various types of human activity such as transport, agriculture, manufacturing, etc. the elephant in the room


is never mentioned.

link is to New Scientist, chart at top. it is only a hint, i’d love to see some calculations somewhere.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 26 2016 15:07 utc | 67

They keep up the the story that each year uis hotter than the previos.
Could that data be the result of more sites where they measure temp?
An increase of monitoring sites?
30 years ago it was global cooling and ozone holes.
Like the GWonT consensus,possible yuppie corruption.A generation of slugs and skeeziks.

Posted by: dahoit | Mar 26 2016 15:15 utc | 68


I TOLD you: Rockefellers & other oil interests are only PRETENDING to support Skeptics. This Senate Report shows they are actually backing the warmist side:

" In reality, an elite group of left wing millionaires and billionaires, which this report refers to as the “Billionaire’s Club,” who directs and controls the far-left environmental movement, which in turn controls major policy decisions and lobbies on behalf of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Even more unsettling, a dominant organization in this movement is Sea Change Foundation, a private California foundation, which relies on funding from a foreign company with undisclosed donors. In turn, Sea Change funnels tens of millions of dollars to other large but discreet foundations and prominent environmental activists who strive to control both policy and politics."

"Through these arrangements, the Billionaire’s Club gains access to a close knit network of likeminded funders, environmental activists, and government bureaucrats who specialize in
manufacturing phony “grassroots” movements and in promoting bogus propaganda disguised as science and news to spread an anti-fossil energy message to the unknowing public. "

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 15:30 utc | 69

I'm getting dyslexic in my old age.sheesh.
The lying times has an op ed about how Sisi is not supportable,or something to that effect.How long did it take for that to surface?Jeez.
Does anyone remember such hype going on for days about the San Bernardino shootings,and then the Belgium bombing?It still is front page(B)while the SB story,dried up as quick as spray paint,other than the encryption angle.
And an Israeli co is the third party saying they'll help decipher it!
Something very strange about SB.What?
And one of these days maybe Europeans(or their govts)will opine of how American destabilization of the ME led to Europe's disintegration,maybe.

Posted by: dahoit | Mar 26 2016 15:49 utc | 70

70;Keep up the skepticism,it should be sop re these crummy yuppie honorless scum to be so,about anything that is spewed today.
As I've said,this reminds me of Don Quixote tilting at windmills,as the only way neocapitalism will correct course,if true(AGW),is when its too late.
Is man the universes cancer?

Posted by: dahoit | Mar 26 2016 15:54 utc | 71

Noirette @ 68

You're right. The criminal indifference of the modern War Machine to all life on Earth is kept well hidden.

Everyone should read "The Burn Pits" (2016) by Joseph Hickman. Its scope is limited to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but you can be sure the "mission" -- no matter how minor -- always takes priority over preserving the planet. The Destroy-The-Earth-For-Profit pathology.

The "expendables" -- the pawns -- the soldiers, sailors, flyers are treated as useful idiots and cast off and forgotten. For corporatized national armies it makes economic sense to shorten the lives of pawns in order to keep down the cost of benefits, especially medical and retirement benefits.

Anyone considering "serving" in the military enterprise should know about the burn pits. Biden's son thought an Army tour in the Middle East would be a great career enhancer, but in the end the burn pits got him too, or so it would seem.

The Great War Machine is above the law and can pollute, radiate and poison with abandon.

Posted by: Ken Nari | Mar 26 2016 16:05 utc | 72


Here's my simplistic explanation for the cooling of the stratosphere(and acceptance) that increasing CO2 causes warming.

CO2 in the atmosphere makes it more opaque to the infrared radiation from the surface, and any photons emitted in the atmosphere. The photons travel a shorter distance before they are absorbed. But more photons are emitted as well. The atmosphere becomes a better conductor of heat, not worse. The better conductor of heat feels colder steels feels colder than a blanket, therefore the "greenhouse" effect is a complete misnomer and wrong analogy to use to explain the warming effect. The CO2 does not act like a blanket, heat is transmitted through the atmosphere faster not slower.

The effective radiation surface of the atmosphere is where a photon emitted towards space does not encounter another CO2 atom (or one of the other infrared emitting/absorbing atoms) and disappears forever. Because the average distance traveled by a photon REDUCES with increased CO2 the effective radiation surface of the atmosphere is higher therefore stratosphere cools because that's the layer from which heat from the Earth is radiated out to space.

Temperature decreases with altitude, the lapse rate, if the effective radiation surface of the atmosphere is at altitude X and if this altitude is increased after the addition of CO2, then the temperature at altitude X is going to be more because this is no longer the point at which the atmosphere is cooled by loss of photons into free space. Take the lapse rate from altitude X back to the surface and you have the increase of temperature at the surface.

I've always thought that this could be directly measured by satellite for a cold clear still night for say the middle of the Australian outback (but obviously the measurement would have to have been done 20 years ago and repeated today). Anyway that's my explanation that I came up with a few years ago.

Posted by: Nobody | Mar 26 2016 16:22 utc | 73

@noirette.. let me 2nd ken's comments @73.. i believe many of us see that for what it is too, but no one talks about it..

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2016 16:26 utc | 74

Psychohistorian @ 44,
"I will continue to rant about how I see private finance and inheritance as being the issues all should focus on so shit will change!"

Dear Psycho, I agree w you that it is the private controllers of finance (aided by inheritance) that we must stop. But they have already metastasized into control of much of the economy, per Oxfam's report on corporate control thru interlocking directorships. (Oxfam's thesis, not mine, LaGuerre)

And Psycho, they are in the process of taking over the global energy industry thru the AGW hoax and their resultant treaty to be signed by nations next month.

As important as the oligarchs' control of finance is, psycho, don't let it blind you to what they are buying w it. I know you can see that thru control of energy they will control worldwide development.

Not to see it w/b munching on your own agnotology. (But I'll take a look at the book at least on Amazon, thanks)

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 16:29 utc | 75

So I guess this was the unveiling of Penelope's anti-AGW statement.

I have no way to directly determine if it's warming up. I suppose the methane clathrate gun thing could happen. On the other hand, the arguments in it's favor always had that fishy flavor.

When I was a kid, long ago, they used to argue that the big problem was EROSION! The idea was that human activity (mostly farming) was sending these mountains of sand, soil, etc. into the rivers and out to sea. And then pretty soon, all the land would be gone, and the briny oceans would be at our feet. It was damn scary.

Posted by: blues | Mar 26 2016 16:47 utc | 76

Dr. Willington Yueh @ 53, I'm sorry if I've misjudged your grasp of the the methane issue, but your post @ 33 said "... molecule for molecule, this unburned methane is much, much more efficient at trapping heat than carbon dioxide."

That's untrue. The science behind AGW has been jumped up by tremendous money, notably by Big Oil. They are funding the warmists in order to push thru a treaty which gives increasing control of energy/development to the UN, which they control.

The creation & support of Big Oil & the other oligarchs for the entire warmist position is documented in this Senate report

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 16:52 utc | 77

Hey dahoit, your word processor has gone sideways. If you look up at your comments, there are no spaces after the commas. Maybe try pasting and cutting into something that works better first would help. If you cut and past here, the site seems to work differently than if you "baptize" it with a direct keystroke.

Posted by: blues | Mar 26 2016 16:57 utc | 78

@ Ricky | 4

Wasn't the last supper on Thursday?

It wasn't Friday, that's for sure. Fortunately, it doesn't spoil the joke.

But Professor James Tabor has some interesting discussions on just this subject-- interesting to this atheistic agnostic, at any rate.

Here's the gist of his answer to your question:

"Later Christian tradition put Jesus’ last meal with his disciples on Thursday evening and his crucifixion on Friday. We now know that is one day off. Jesus’ last meal was Wednesday night, and he was crucified on Thursday, the 14th of the Jewish month Nisan. The Passover meal itself was eaten Thursday night, at sundown, as the 15th of Nisan began. Jesus never ate that Passover meal. He had died at 3 p.m. on Thursday."

As noted, I'm not qualified to claim that Tabor is correct, but I find his analyses informative, lucid, and compelling. See the rest at:

Posted by: Ort | Mar 26 2016 16:59 utc | 79

Anyhow. It does seem that the whole theory of AGW (warming) (I hate all these a acronyms) is the establishment's version of doomerdom.

Posted by: blues | Mar 26 2016 17:18 utc | 80

Dahoit @ 69, "They keep up the the story that each year it's hotter than the previous.
Could that data be the result of more sites where they measure temp?
An increase of monitoring sites?"

No, Dahoit, they DEcreased sites in the north. Also when cities grew up around old sites they became subject to the "urban heat island" effect, but they don't subtract for that. When rural sites only are consulted there is no warming.

You mention the old "ozone hole" controversy. It was a hoax by the maker of a new refrigerant that wasn't selling because it wasn't as good as freon. Ozone hole is unchanged; waxes & wanes every year as per normal.

For a bigger picture of the purpose behind the warming hoax, see "Financial Ecology with a Climate Pretext" Their plan is to financialize nature, and many people who love nature haven't a clue what it is they are really supporting. (Well, how COULD they know; you have to be actually studying the psychopathic oligarchs to understand what they're up to. They hide behind such nice propaganda: "Save the planet." Yeah, it's really "Turn it all over to our control.") You can get a few hints here:


Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 19:24 utc | 81


China just completed their 13th 5 year plan. Are they perfect? No! BUT, they do show that there are alternatives to the global private finance families making all the decisions behind the myth of capitalism.

Posted by: James | Mar 26 2016 21:11 utc | 82

@83 james

Well, I hadn't mentioned China but, now that you have, you put me in mind of their very own 'global private finance families making all the decisions behind the myth of' Chinese capitalism. Are they complete failures as an alternative to capitalism? No! But the Chinese Communist Party does seem to be the home of some of (the majority of?) the most successful 21st Century Robber Barons, so far.

I really don't have favorites among the plutes I 'love to hate'. I just don't see now ... I certainly did see the tremendous gains made by the Chinese peoples in the 20th Century ... much difference between the China of the 21st and the "west". Apparent differences seem to be vestigial, left over from the 20th, as the plutocrats of the East and West rise and converge. Those in power in China are certainly more mindful of the precariousness of their position in the face of ordinary people who have made revolution very effectively not so long ago and may well do again.

What do I know? Nothing special. Just the way it looks to me, another bozo on the bus, from my seat thereon.

Posted by: jfl | Mar 26 2016 21:39 utc | 83

jfl @84

I am another bozo on the bus that has read too much about the atrocities wrought by the power of private finance and want to see structural change in my lifetime.....which is on the down side.

Your statement about those in power in China
Those in power in China are certainly more mindful of the precariousness of their position in the face of ordinary people who have made revolution very effectively not so long ago and may well do again.
would be a hellofasight better than what we have now in the "free" world. Instead of 5 year plans we get more banking shenanigans to fleece everyone.

I want a world with better incentives that the Gawd of Mammon capitalism myth.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 26 2016 22:31 utc | 84

DavidKNZ @ 26,

The "outing" of Rockefeller's Exxon-Mobil as supporter of Skeptics was done by the Energy and Environment Reporting Fellowship at the Columbia School of Journalism. And this group is funded by . . . Rockefeller Bros Fund. It's just like the Federal Reserve Act. Bankers pretended to be against it. Now they pretend to be against AGW.

I guess from now on they will do openly what they've been doing since at least 2013-- spend gargantuan sums supporting AGW groups, per the Senate report I've already linked above.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 23:33 utc | 85

jfl @ 84, I dunno much about China either, but here's a few bits:
--Rothschild's moved his headqtrs to HK.
--Rockefellers have been closed linked to China for at least 50 years.
--massive Western investment into China + technological transfer for decades.
--They are giving up Communist Party & imprisoned the few higher ups who objected to China's getting rid of nationalized industries.
Even Engdahl, who loved China, is beginning to pull back his judgement.

--Think I got the following from James Corbett. Jives w other sources & seems all the important families' kids are being educated in the West (not a good sign):

rise of modern China overseen by a small cadre of politically connected individuals (known in Chinese as the “Eight Immortals”) whose families still continue to control vast portions of China’s “national” wealth. These “capitalist road” reforms created the conditions for massive foreign investment in the country, which began in the 1980s with the establishment of the Beijing Central Business District and the formation of Chinese subsidiaries of major Fortune 500 companies like HP. This influx of foreign capital increased in the 1990s when direct investment of US-based multinationals in China quadrupled (from $2.6 billion in 1994 to $10.5 billion in 2001).

“forced” technology transfers that allowed China to leapfrog many other developing nations to become a player on the international scene in advanced technologies. There have also been numerous military technology transfers from the US to China over the last two decades that have doubtless played a role in the rise of the PLA Navy and Air Force’s capabilities.

In short, the rise of China as an economic and military power has been facilitated by a small group of oligarchical families working in close conjunction with businessmen, politicians and financiers representing oligarchical interests in the West, specifically in the US.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 26 2016 23:47 utc | 86

Erdogan is accusing the EU of sending armed jihadists to Syria through Turkey

Posted by: Les | Mar 27 2016 0:57 utc | 88

@85 psycho

It may well be the Chinese people who stage another revolution and bring about 'a world with better incentives than the Gawd of Mammon capitalism myth'. I just don't think it will be the present Plutocrats of the Republic who do so. I think they are more and more your garden variety plutes with each passing day. And we've been waiting awhile for us the people to advance beyond complaints here in the "west".

I think change is going to be brought about by the people suffering the most, those with the least left to lose under the capitalist 'trees grow to the sky' system. There are more of 'them' - us - in China than in the "west". The race to the bottom is still being run. But the big numbers are in China - and India. The dawn of the new day may well rise in the East. The sun always come up in the East, right? Sets in the West.

Posted by: jfl | Mar 27 2016 1:34 utc | 89

Hi Nobody @ 74, Sorry to be so long answering yours about the cause of stratospheric cooling.
When I found that report this morning that the Senate had documented funding of the warmists by the oligarchs including Big Oil I went bananas trying to read it. Then to have discovered the story the SAME morning that it was a Rockefeller-subsidized group that "discovered" their funding Skeptics. It was just too much cuz it's exactly what I've been saying; I KNEW they were really backing AGW, but you know how it is-- you don't really know till you see the proof.

Anyway, I'm calm now for the past couple of hours & I've been considering the little I know about the stratosphere. It's really not enough to comment on your thesis, which is inventive. Maybe just a little invent-ed, too. But that's OK; it's stimulating to think outside the box sometimes.

I remember reading that the rate of tropospheric heating increased with the rate of surface heating, so that it tended to act as a temperature stabilizer. But I haven't a clue if that extends to the stratosphere. You say that more photons w/b emitted in the atmosphere (as the result of increased CO2? Really?)

"Greenhouse effect is a complete misnomver, wrong analogy" Yeah, most any skeptic or old-school meteorologist wd agree w you there. "The CO2 does not act like a blanket, heat is transmitted through the atmosphere faster not slower." But the warmist position holds that it depends on the direction & type of wave-length, no? And the CO2 itself, since it accounts for only 5% of the warming hardly enters into it, right? I mean In 100,000 molecules of air, 78,000 are nitrogen, 21,000 are oxygen, 2,000 to 4,000 are water vapor, and only 30 are carbon dioxide (1/38000th of 1%). I mean 95% of the warming is sposed to come from the water vapor which the air is sposed to hold as a consequence of the slight warming by the CO2. (Trouble is there is a positive finding that there IS no increase in water vapor, but we better leave that aside to continue discussing your theory. So shall we assume that there is an undetected increase in CO2?)

"Because the average distance traveled by a photon REDUCES with increased CO2 the effective radiation surface of the atmosphere is higher . . . ." No. Rememer you defined the effective radiation surface as "where a photon emitted towards space does not encounter another CO2 atom". So you can't just forget about those which encountered a CO2 atom & then compute your effective radiation surface using only the unblocked ones. Am I right? But it was very inventive.

I don't really understand this stuff very well. In order that you may have "a meeting of the minds" w "someone" I've been looking on WUWT for stratosphere articles that might offer something interesting. I can only react; I'm a critic, but I couldn't begin to invent a theory about how the factors interact.
So here's what I found: I think this one's fairly interesting. I don't really dig the charts, but you might.

Happy prospecting. Sorry I don't know more.

PS: I think you'[ve got something in those last two paragraphs. Why don't you put it as a comment on one of the WUWT articles. They have some very knowledgeable commenters, btw.

Anyway I wd think the method you suggest might work to quantify the amt of CO2-generated heat. I remember that they ARE measuring the outbound radiation, but not the method.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 27 2016 4:02 utc | 90

@89 what's funny is that it's true. I believe that most of the lieutenants came from continental Europe. Almost all of the conspirators of project wreck Syria are getting it pushed back on them in various degrees

Posted by: aaaa | Mar 27 2016 4:34 utc | 91

@89 & 92
Erdogan might be a totalitarian nutter (something the region maybe requires from tine to time), but he's a damn good opportunist. France's Rwpublic Of Fear is self inflicted...and for the moment, the events within Francophone Europe make great propaganda tool of the western medi - ie; such a terrible tragedy, these masked villains, enemies of democracy who believe in nothing - when the river bleeding has a very definite, Gallic flavour...

Posted by: MadMax2 | Mar 27 2016 13:53 utc | 92

mina at 54, I agree. These kids are being ‘rebel youth’ in a very unoriginal, manipulated way, and all this has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. (But with third generation from cheap labor from ex-colonies, and poverty.) What is interesting is that tee-vee likes to show this kind of thing, and the kids, on the moment, love the publicity, the more outrageous they can be the better! A sort of complicity in a TV-reality thing. As you said in other words.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 27 2016 14:57 utc | 93

Suicide bomber kills over 50, mostly women, kids outside Pakistan park

and an an article from 2009 - Pakistan must confront Wahhabism

and in this article from 2014
"In local mosques all over Punjab, seminary students are being invited by the local clerics to enter into real Islam by embracing Wahhabism. They are taught that anyone outside the Wahhabi sect is a heretic and will burn in hell. For many decades now, generations of students with this mindset have been emerging from madrasas whose curriculum is designed to encourage intolerance and violence. The Wahhabi culture has generated internecine conflicts and terrorism in Pakistan, helped by various radic .."

Posted by: james | Mar 27 2016 16:19 utc | 94

Without comment:

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Mar 28 2016 20:24 utc | 95

Formerly T-Bear,

That's right: Arctic ice, which is all sea ice (no land beneath), is very much dependent upon the temperature of the water that it floats in. During the last of our intermittent warming episodes-- from about 1975 to 1998 and in the 5 year or so period of stasis afterward-- the ocean warmed a little, so ice melts more readily. As a result, for a number of years the amount of Arctic sea ice is DOWN by about 7%.

We are not able to see how much the ice decreased in the last intermittent warm period 1914-1944 (dust bowl, etc.) because the satellite record only goes back to 1979.

These NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS reveal the great anxiety that was felt about the loss of ice in the 20s & 30s, etc.

PS the Antarctica is growing you know.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 29 2016 1:23 utc | 97

pen 87

*“forced” technology transfers that allowed China to leapfrog many other developing nations to become a player on the international scene in advanced technologies. There have also been numerous military technology transfers from the US to China over the last two decades that have doubtless played a role in the rise of the PLA Navy and Air Force’s capabilities.

In short, the rise of China as an economic and military power has been facilitated by a small group of oligarchical families working in close conjunction with businessmen, politicians and financiers representing oligarchical interests in the West, specifically in the US.* [sic]


are u aware that since that tam *massacre* destabilisation, the snake has slapped a mil tech embargo on china, any country that sells high tech eqpt with murkkan components to china that has any potential military application, however remotely, has to get approval from washington ...or else.

funny you keep whining about china is *on board* with the zwo, while ignoring that 800 lb *elephant* in the room, hehehehe


*It should come as no surprise that major moves have been taken in the last 12 to 24 months to undermine each BRICS member nation and destabilize them through political and economic means. And it is no coincidence that those leaders shown smiling and shaking hands at recent BRICS summits are now either the targets of destabilization efforts and subversion – as in the cases of Brazil, Russia, China and South Africa [aka br_cs] or are a target of a military and political charm offensive, as in the case of India. In each case, the United States and its allies benefit significantly from the latest developments.

The next article in this series will examine the destabilizing forces reaching into South Africa. Future pieces will examine the growing military relationship between the U.S. and India, as well as the multi-faceted strategies to contain, isolate, and destabilize Russia and China.*

Posted by: denk | Mar 29 2016 4:56 utc | 98

@ 98

I don't take advise from ignorant fools - thanks for the needless effort.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Mar 29 2016 6:28 utc | 99

Nice one, found this linked on a german blog:
Saudi Arabia supports Syrian Elections
Al-Jazeera asks the saudi ambassador to the un why SA supports elections in Syria but not in SA. Great entertainment.
On a sidenote I wonder why Al-Jazeera asks these kind of questions? Are they really so much a western tool based in Qatar?

Posted by: radiator | Mar 29 2016 8:07 utc | 100

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