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January 2, 2016
Open Thread 2016-01
Comments
in re 83 —
As TM astutely notes at 89, you possess “poor reasoning skills.” You don’t really engage any of the points I raised, but try to escape them behind a dust cloud of new “concerns.”
So it seems to me that without further objection from the plaintiff, we can safely acquit Proyect of the charge of heresy in thought, namely, profession of faith in neoliberalism. I’d have to agree with Proyect, the KKE is a hell of a lot better than neo-liberalism.
If you think Hudson might be a critic now, then you need to show us Hudson, being a critic, NOW. Not your worthless guess about what you’d like someone better informed and more thoughtful to think, based on your (mis)reading of their position over the summer.
I pulled a few links from NC on his thinking on Greece, so I’m ready when you are.
Proyect is criticizing us on the left for errors in praxis wrought by misunderstanding the objective reality; his subject is not the neo-liberals or the Establishment. Bogus “criticism” to the effect that he did not write a different essay is a dodge.
“Intimidation of the left,” another unsupported dodge. Define left, please, specify parties, states, movements. Who intimidated, how, why?
On the underlying reality —
As I have said before, there will be no debt relief offered. Such is the position of the Troika. Tsipras is hard pressed to protect the masses as he said he would, recently forcing through legislation easing foreclose procedures, as required by the ECB. He’s already lost seats from his narrow majority. The financiers will do nothing to encourage any sort of resistance from the new left gov’t. in Portugal, any second thoughts by the Irish or Spanish, or any hope for the Italians to avoid a similar fate.
The time to fight for debt relief is before you signed on to pay it all back. Tsipras in July sold his birthright of resistance for the pottage of short-term funding for the bankers.
Syriza could have had a principled fight for the masses in the Summer, but instead Tsipras went to bat for banks in September. How do you get a better deal now when your bargaining position has worsened since then?
It looks like your line on responsibility is that it’s anyone but Tsipras’. I mean, he’s only the Prime Minister and party leader. Who purged Syriza of it left opposition at the behest of the bankers, and won an election on it.
Tsipras had any number of options. He chose to collaborate with the Troika.
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 5 2016 1:43 utc | 101
r@102
We’re still waiting on the details of your litmus test for a socialist. And you still haven’t addressed your moral lapses. Instead you’re still stonewalling (as everyone can see @76-81).
Stop bullsh*tting and just tell us: Do you support Proyect’s call for the left to abandon challenging of odious debt?
I’m tired of correcting your misinformation about my view of Greece.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 5 2016 2:39 utc | 102
Jack Smith are you telling me you can’t see how Sanders will be more moderate and better than Hillary?
Again, I am talking about the Democratic PRIMARY. Your suggestion is to throw away that vote and just sit on your hands?!
If you look at Sanders YES he will be different, first of all, he was an Independent up until just two months ago and you need to look at the policies he is talking about.
The fact that the powers that be are not giving him fair treatment should give you a clue.
Look at who is backing Hillary (big powerful interests)
What part of PREVENTING a Hillary presidency don’t you understand?
Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jan 5 2016 3:15 utc | 103
Jack Smith, you are making assumptions about my positions. Look at my videos on Israel, Hillary, Obama, Kerry & Hartmann: http://goo.gl/Q2aCxZ
Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jan 5 2016 13:22 utc | 104
on re 103 —
Do you believe in workers’ control of the means of production? You’re in. The tricky part is, how to get there.
You’ll need to develop your understanding. So read up, start with Socialism Utopian & Scientific. It’s not like liberalism, no armchair activists. I’d recommend hooking up with the leftist sectarian party of your choice and signing on to some paper sales. You should walk some picket lines, do a little clinic defense, wheat paste for the next meeting. Marching in the contingent in the big demo is a given.
So again, comrade, your credentials?
You mean, you’re tired of me correcting your misinformation on Greece? You’te the Tsipras “fanboi”; big mistake.
I do not support the Syriza government of class collaborationists. Your portrayal of Proyect’s position is simplistic and inaccurate. The question he raises is legitimate and complex.
Roberts concludes his article thusly: “The issue for Syriza and the Greek labour movement in June is not whether to break with the euro as such, but to break with capitalist policies and implement socialist measures to reverse austerity and launch a pan-European campaign for change.” I want to return to this question of implementing “socialist measures” later on but for now would dwell at length on a matter that came up in Roberts’s article that has preoccupied me for some time, namely whether repudiating the debt owed to Western banks would have broken the back of austerity, a view shared by Marxists and post-Keynesians alike.
He refers to Greece: Keynes or Marx?
Proyect’s suggestion is that debt relief does little in freeing states from domination by finance capital. He goes on to discuss the various implications and particularities of Argentina’s default; they and Venezuela have been offered as a theoretical models.
I’ve already noted, sorting through the data is work, and so for now, I’m sticking with the politics, which I understand. Roberts’ work looks interesting. Whatever they have to say, I’m sure they are far more insightful and correct than your heresy-hunting self.
So you should read that as, “no, he raises good questions of strategy and tactics.”
Do you care to actually try to analyze or debunk Roberts or Proyect? Nah, denouncing straw men, much easier. Here’s some questions, though, if you’re game — Was it tried elsewhere? Worked there? Why, why not? Compare and contrast with Greece today; how do economic structures, resources, and political forces compare?
As with Hudson’s “critique” that’s still lodged in your imagination, if you try, I’m ready. I ain’t holding my breath, though.
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 5 2016 13:45 utc | 105
r@106
Do you believe in workers’ control of the means of production? You’re in… So again, comrade, your credentials?
Deceptive segue. Exactly what we’ve come to expect from you.
And I’m not interested in applying to the rufus socialist priesthood.
Its clear that you haven’t followed Hudson or the debate at NC. You just want to attack me. But you’re village idiot antics are easy to see thru.
And you still refuse to retract your support for Israeli State murder as everyone can see @76-81. Sad.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 5 2016 14:42 utc | 106
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Posted by: jfl | Jan 5 2016 15:26 utc | 107
“US military leadership resisted Obama’s bid for regime change in Syria, Libya”
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/us-military-leadership-s-resistance-regime-change-1343405723
Posted by: Willy2 | Jan 5 2016 17:22 utc | 108
JR at 107.
Up to your old Trix, you silly rabbit?
This was a generic application process for all factions and tendencies.
You are not under consideration for any Fourth Internationalist tendency.
Assuming you could complete the pre-qualification process, I was thinking, as you lean towards willful blindness and heresy-hunting, you’re likely to be good RCP material. Maoist voluntarism would really suit you. You might have made a good MIM Comrade back in the day; they were so paranoid about the state, they used numbers to ID Comrades.
But you’ve given no evidence that you’ve finished the necessary theoretical and historical readings to go beyond candidate status. To say nothing about your lack of practical skills.
Now, wouldn’t it be fair to quote my actual comment? Instead of your fevered imaginings about it?
Here’s my original snark, in all its glory, see 152.
Well, as I’ve posted on Greece a few times since Tsipras’ betrayal and read Naked Capitalism daily, I’m reasonably certain I’m up to speed on Greece. I’m sure I know far more of the debate on Grexit than you do of the principles and practices of socialism. As I said, any time you wish to present and discuss Hudson’s current views, I’m still ready.
You know, he has a website, and so — you could use your time to go over there and badger him into regurgitating your views. Maybe he’ll be a easier mark than NC.
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 6 2016 2:28 utc | 109
As expected: BS, bloviation and more stonewalling.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 6 2016 3:04 utc | 110
Hate to interupt the private mudwrestling match, but I read (what I thought was) a very good exposition on Bernie Sanders’ candidacy – about the man, his record, and the inevitable consequences for a Bernie presidency, not about gaming the political sideshow – and thought I’d share it … Does Bernie Sanders’ Imperialism Matter?. The American political scene took over another, unrelated thread, so I thought I’d put it here. Hope I’m not disturbing the mudwrestlers who’ve made this thread their own. Again.
Posted by: jfl | Jan 6 2016 8:07 utc | 111
every time some major *terra* hit occured somewhere, the unitedsnake’d issue worldwide travel alerts to murkkans . it has just announced the 13th such alert right after the paris *attack*, even tho adding in the same breath the reasuring note that *no murkkans have been targeted so far* !
exactly !
since 911, or even before, the unitedsnake has been bombing dozens of countries with *daisy cutters*, du, hellfires, drones, bunker busters …. it had cia/nsa and whatnot tracking cyber traffic worldwide 24×7, it has xe mercenaries, 101 airborne, jsoc crawling in 150 countries at last count.
one’d have thought the *world cop* had the world nicely sewn up, literally, the terrarists days are numbered !
\
yet acute observers couldnt help but notice ,
*terrarism* actually GREW in direct proportion to the escalation of *wot* and the multiplying of murkkan foreign bases !
*no murkkans have been targeted by supposedly die hard jihadists seeking revenge on the great satan, yet tens of thousands of innocent bystanders have been sought out and butchered like sacrificial lambs by the *terrarists*, in countries policed by cia, jsocs !
in particular, thousands of chinese workers, diplomats, engineers, tourists were slaughtered on uncle sham’s watch, from afpak to ph, thailand, all the stans, all over africa including ethopia, sudan, mali, angola, ….
some notable cases included the massacre of dozens of chinese workers in afghan in 2004,
the murkkan puppet regime fingered the taliban right away, but the militants, who had never shied away from taking responsibility on a hit, rejected the charge outright.
in pak, the *most dangerous* taliban mohamed mehsud [in bush’s own words] was released by bush himself from gitmo in 2003, his first mission upon release….kidnapped and killed chinese engineers working on the gwadar the port project !
in 2013, mehsud’s outfit the pak ttp hunted down a bunch of foreign tourists and killed the CHINESE amongst them in cold blood, to *AVENGE THE MURKKAN DRONE ATTACKS IN PAK* , go figure !!!
in the recent terrarism outrage in mali, terrarists also seem to target chinese [and russians] amongst the hostages, their victims included three top exe from chinese rail who were in mali negotiating mega infra projects with the govn.
these are just the tip of an iceberg, highlited in my posts over the yrs.
inquiring minds want to know, why are these jihadists targeting CHINESE ,
when the GREAT SATAN is bombing their homeland and china is on top of uncle sham’s official enemy list ???
Posted by: denk | Jan 6 2016 8:31 utc | 112
To be fair, I’m just throwing it back. Mostly.
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 6 2016 12:45 utc | 114
Here’s a shocker — the Ukraine, says Gordon Hahn, is worse off.
The present regime is no different than Yanukovych’s except for a considerable increase in western Ukrainian neo-fascism both in the corridors of power and on the streets and a decidedly more catastrophic economic condition.
The lack of any real change represents a failure of Ukraine’s most recent pseudo-revolution, with corruption, criminal and nationalist violence, and the lack of rule of law so prevalent it more than negates Ukraine’s often relatively free and fair elections.
Hahn notes that Poroshenko has lower approval rating than Yanukovich when he was deposed, and wonders if USAID is working behind the scenes to depose him. “When demonstrations occur in Kiev, will State Department Assistant Secretary Victoria Nuland and US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt go there to hand out cookies?”
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 6 2016 12:51 utc | 115
the destabilisation of germany is escalating….
BERLIN — German police has described a series of sexual assaults against women in Cologne on New Year’s Eve as “a completely new dimension of crime.”
Officers received numerous complaints from women who said they had been assaulted around Cologne’s main train station next to the western German city’s famous cathedral on the night from Thursday to Friday.
Cologne police chief Wolfgang Albers says witnesses described the assaults as coming from a group of up to 1,000 men whose appearance indicated they were of “Arab or North African origin.”
Some 60 criminal complaints have so far been filed, including one allegation of rape.
German news agency dpa quoted Albers telling reporters on Monday that it was “an intolerable situation that such crimes are committed in the middle of the city.”
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/01/04/world/europe/ap-eu-germany-sex-assaults.html?_r=0
This German town renowned for its rococo palace threw open its doors to arriving waves of refugees. Donations from clothing drives filled four garages. The volunteer fire department pitched in to build a tent city at the airport that now teems with 1,400 migrants.
But like other Germans in a country that has rolled out the welcome mat for Europe’s largest wave of asylum seekers since World War II, residents here are having second thoughts.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/a-refugee-riot-puts-a-german-town-on-edge/2015/10/01/fa9075bc-65f5-11e5-bdb6-6861f4521205_story.html
Posted by: denk | Jan 6 2016 14:25 utc | 116
weapon of mass migration
from the horse mouth…
kelly greenhill, yet another murkkan whose *day job* consist of devising new way to
screw the world.
*Coercion is generally understood to refer to the practice of inducing or preventing changes in political behavior through the use of threats, intimidation, or some other form of pressure—most commonly, military force. This article focuses on a very particular nonmilitary method of applying coercive pressure—the use of migration and refuge e crises as instruments of persuasion“…
“Coercive engineered migrations (or coercion-driven migrations ) are “those cross-border population movements that are deliberately created or manipulated in order to induce political, military and/or economic concessions from a target state or states.”…
“Coercive engineered migration is frequently, but not always, undertaken in the context of population outflows strategically generated for other reasons. In fact, it represents just one subset of a broader class of events that all rely on the creation and exploitation of such crises as means to political and military ends—a phenomenon I call strategic engineered migration”
https://willyloman.wordpress.com/2015/11/21/the-refugee-crisis-understanding-the-globalist-weapons-of-mass-migration-campaign/
Posted by: denk | Jan 6 2016 15:00 utc | 117
jfl and Jack, see Other things I have tweeted about Sanders:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so59n1
and jfl, how paranoid and illogical are you? SO WHAT if I used a goo.gl url shortner. You post a description as if knowing how many people clicked a link and where they saw the link is some sort of “top secret info” which could be used for nefarious purposes. The point was to give an easy way to link to an important blog post without posting a long Url here:
Look at my videos on Israel, Hillary, Obama, Kerry & Hartmann: http://goo.gl/Q2aCxZ
Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jan 6 2016 15:48 utc | 118
rufus doesn’t like it when I point out his BS, hypocracy, and rhetorical tricks.
I called out his small-minded ‘whatever-it-takes’ thinking; revealed that his pro-Israel attitude extends to excusing State murder; and questioned his dedication to socialism after he sneered (to me and fairleft): “As soon as you kids fully work out your scheme to overthrow capital before the elections next year, get back to me.” (Note: He then informed us the he was NOT a Sanders supporter – despite having made a number of pro-Sanders statements in the past.)
In return for this truth-telling, rufus has decided to sling mud and invites others to join in. Sad.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 6 2016 16:56 utc | 119
jfl at 101, agree w. what you wrote. Ex. Buffer State. Nobody likes it. Everybody is getting used to it. All have realised that some independence for the Donbass (Minsk 2) is essential.
Ukr. represents a curious case in the sense that Nation States that are attacked often break up, and the break-up is sought for (Yugoslavia as an ex, the splintering was engineered.) Or some super power leaves behind a funded ‘special region’ which can ‘fight’ other regions, create internal strife, etc..or installs it…
Re. Ukr. the ‘superpowers’ all want a ‘unitary state’ as they aren’t willing, in this case, to deal with splinters, mini-regions, etc. Ukr. WAS attacked (Maidan coup) but everybody accepted that, cosied up to Poroshenko.
That is because Ukr. was a mostly failed state even before 2014. The outside PTB understand (imho) that the only way to regulate the situation (for evil or good, Monsanto, Biden son, Russia, whatever, Cargill, no matter) is to have a central Gov. that has effective and strong enough power to ‘hold’ for their enterprises. Potential mini-regions will devolve to barbary / local org., have no rule of law. (> No long-term, stable, profits possible.)
To cut a long story very short, imho, is that the Ukr. Kiev Gvmt, with all its support from outside, does not control the country, though it pretends to. It will be a case of spontaneous break-away, maybe not even official (covered up), just de facto on the ground. All the foreign powers will completely give up by then – they have already done so more or less.
Some Oblasts will slowly revert to Russia. Others might explode in violence (already going on.) Russia has clearly decided to sit, wait, this one out. (While doing what it can for DPR LPR, as you said.)
Posted by: Noirette | Jan 6 2016 17:37 utc | 120
Gwynne Dyer published in 2008 a book called “After Iraq”.
This is what Yale books
http://yalebooks.co.uk/
wrote about the book “After Iraq”:
“American and British troops are not going to stay in Iraq for ever. But what will happen when they start to leave? In this lucid and enormously readable book, acclaimed analyst Gwynne Dyer predicts that the Middle East will go through the biggest shake-up since the region became part of the Ottoman Empire five centuries ago – and argues that the rest of the world should stand back and leave them to it.Taking a step back from issues of blame and ideology, Dyer looks at what motivates the key players in the Middle East, from the various Iraqi factions through Iran, Lebanon and Syria to Israel and the Palestinians – not to mention the United States and the United Kingdom. Along the way, he shatters many myths and identifies the real threats to the status quo – such as the enormous Iraqi refugee problem, and the demographic and political forces that mean that Israel may be running out of time.Refreshingly direct, entirely non-partisan and frequently disturbing, this is essential reading for anyone who cares about the future of the Middle East and the wider world.”
http://yalebooks.co.uk/display.asp?k=9780300137354
Posted by: Willy2 | Jan 6 2016 18:25 utc | 121
I’m still here.
@1, I think the best way to prevent a Clinton Presidency is to get Bernie nominated in the Democratic Primary. And note that Bernie performs BETTER than Hillary when running against Trump:
@37, after the primaries we can decide what to do next. We “might” issue a demand that Bernie offer Jill Stein the VP spot on his ticket or we won’t vote for him in the general election.
Obomo, eight years into his presidency where are the changes and the endless wars continue millions displaced and murder by a peaceful Dem president? China will be next with Japan as the leading lapdog in Asia even before Ukraine and Syria wars end. BTW I haven’t forgotten JFK, and Ambassador Caroline Kennedy another neoliberal war monger
http://english.cntv.cn/2015/12/07/VIDE1449419161115143.shtml
http://english.cntv.cn/2015/12/14/VIDE1450045688327130.shtml
And you expect me to believe Sanders will not be any different from Obomo or Hillary? And you expect me to believe ..a demand that Bernie offer Jill Stein the VP spot…
You might have sealed my voting preference. VOTE for Donald Trump even as I despise him. I live in a 50% Dem – 50% Repug District. My vote plus a few others might make the difference. Maybe, finally kick out Democrat.
Posted by: Jack Smith | Jan 6 2016 20:45 utc | 122
Malooga’s glorious rant (Syria: the feckless left – see sidebar on MoA mainpage) still reverberates.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 6 2016 21:39 utc | 123
in re 120 —
You say you haven’t been throwing mud, but you’re covered in something brown and wet….
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 7 2016 0:03 utc | 124
Why is Bernie getting a pass on foreign policies? Does he have to go kiss the wall?
Posted by: shadyl | Jan 7 2016 0:17 utc | 125
And now childish taunting.
When’s the last time you got laid, rufus?
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 7 2016 2:45 utc | 126
Let’s see, that would be Sunday. I’ve been happily married for 25 years. And you?
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 7 2016 5:44 utc | 127
@123 Jack Smith you are playing the elite’s game of nullifying the Democratic Primary. AGAIN, I am talking about the PRIMARY and NOT the general election. Trump isn’t running in the Democratic Primary is he? You have fallen into the same mind games the elites are playing.
I do think based on his record that domestically Sanders will be a lot better than Hillary and with foreign policy he will be better but not ideal. Considering how horrible Hillary is, we need to prevent her from having a chance at winning the general election.
As far as TRump, he has talked about “taking Iraq’s oil!” He is a lawless thug. He continually lies. (this is a man who lied about what was on his own website during the debates!)Trump also lied when he claimed he negotiated the debated down to 2 HOURS from 3 to 3 and a half hours. Politifact backs up my statement that the debate was never planed to be three hours or more. (if you had any sense you would realize that IF CNBC wanted that to be the length then they would have been announcing it.
Look how he is dishonest about the multiple bankruptcies:
“Trump was exaggerating, experts said, when he said that virtually every business leader has filed bankruptcy. An estimated 5 percent of the 500 biggest U.S. companies have filed for bankruptcy in the past two decades, Georgetown law professor Adam Levitin said.” https://goo.gl/0e7WIQ “Trump’s four bankruptcies all happened within the past 25 years. That’s a lot, said Stephen Lubben, a leading expert in corporate finance and professor at Seton Hall School of Law. ” http://goo.gl/8krktF
“Trump claims that successful businesses file for bankruptcy all the time. At the debate he said “virtually every person that you read about on the front page of the business sections, they’ve used the [bankruptcy] law.”
But the facts don’t back that comment up.
Despite high profile examples, including General Motors (GM), Lehman Brothers and most of the nation’s major airlines, fewer than 20% of public companies with assets of $1 billion or more have filed for bankruptcy in the last 30 years, according to data from Bankruptcy.com and S&P Capital IQ.” http://goo.gl/GmtrGv
Reaganomics failed. “The Reagan economy was a one-hit wonder. Yes, there was a boom in the mid-1980s, as the economy recovered from a severe recession. But while the rich got much richer, there was little sustained economic improvement for most Americans. By the late 1980s, middle-class incomes were barely higher than they had been a decade before — and the poverty rate had actually risen.” “I understand why conservatives want to rewrite history and pretend that these good things happened while a Republican was in office — or claim, implausibly, that the 1981 Reagan tax cut somehow deserves credit for positive economic developments that didn’t happen until 14 or more years had passed.” http://goo.gl/QwblB6
“Reagan’s tax cuts brought a rapid ballooning of the federal debt, which was $934 billion in January 1981 when Reagan took office. When he departed in January 1989, the debt had jumped to $2.7 trillion, a three-fold increase. And the consequences of Reagan’s reckless tax-cutting continued to build under his successor, George H.W. Bush, who left office in January 1993 with a national debt of $4.2 trillion, more than a four-fold increase since the arrival of Republican-dominated governance in 1981.” https://goo.gl/fz0vEz
” see my videos on Hillary and Obama on my channel such as: https://goo.gl/DFO3GM and https://goo.gl/z8DKta
Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jan 7 2016 8:23 utc | 128
Jack, Trump bitches that HE “didn’t have it easy” and that he “ONLY got a million dollar loan” form daddy (which adjusted to today’s dollars is like daddy giving you a loan for over 5 million dollars! And the point is TRUMP BITCHES about having “not had it easy!”
Why be so eager to support Trump? He is hardly a man of the people. He COMPLAINS that it hasn’t been easy for him and his dad gave him a small loan for a million dollars: It has not been easy for me. It has not been easy for me. I started off in Brooklyn. My father gave me a small loan of a million dollars,” And it is important to note that in today’s dollars that would be like getting a loan of over 5 million dollars. Was it necessary for him to complain about the “small” loan and to insist that “It has not been easy for me?” Does this guy really represent the interests of the common man?
He COMPLAINS that he “only” got a loan for a million dollars from his dad. He COMPLAINS that he “didn’t have it easy.” That $1,000,000.00 (and it isn’t the only money he got from his father) would be $5,875,185.19 in today’s dollars. That’s calculated from The US Inflation Calculator which measures the buying power of the dollar over time: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
And as this article ( https://goo.gl/V6RWKM ) points out, that isn’t the only money he got from his dad. So basically he was a rich kid playing with money and here is the kicker: “One way he could have made it easier on himself? By not entering the real estate game at all. Earlier this year, the National Journal estimated that if Trump had invested his eventual inheritance in an index fund in 1982, he’d be worth $8 billion today.”
So basically he was a rich spoiled kid playing with money (and that loan wasn’t the only money he got from his dad and he always had the security of falling back on his dad’s money) and here is the kicker: “One way he could have made it easier on himself? By not entering the real estate game at all. Earlier this year, the National Journal estimated that if Trump had invested his eventual inheritance in an index fund in 1982, he’d be worth $8 billion today.” – https://goo.gl/92hnCh
So for all his boasting about his “art” of business deals, including risky business deals where he lost money, if he instead had invested his inheritance he would have MORE money than he does now! This National Journal article points out: “Had the celebrity businessman and Republican presidential candidate invested his eventual share of his father’s real-estate company into a mutual fund of S&P 500 stocks in 1974, it would be worth nearly $3 billion today, thanks to the market’s performance over the past four decades. If he’d invested the $200 million that Forbes magazine determined he was worth in 1982 into that index fund, it would have grown to more than $8 billion today.”
Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jan 7 2016 8:30 utc | 129
ANd for goodness sakes, Trump mocks a report’s disability! https://youtu.be/IvoXahouku0
Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jan 7 2016 8:31 utc | 130
@121 noirette
‘Russia has clearly decided to sit, wait, this one out.’ check
‘the Ukr. Kiev Gvmt, with all its support from outside, does not control the country’ check
‘Ukr. the ‘superpowers’ all want a ‘unitary state’ as they aren’t willing, in this case, to deal with splinters, mini-regions, etc.’
What they want is one thing, what they’ve brought about – with the exception of Russia : ‘Do you realize what you’ve done?’ – is another. What are they doing to prevent the splintering into miniregions? Propping up Poroshenko/Yats … those two’d be gone now without outside support. The only support they have at this point is outside the country. They will be gone in future.
Russia’s plan – not a plan really, just sitting on their hands, trying not to make a bad situation worse – is the only ‘plan’ with a future. They – and the future separate parties who used to be Ukrainians – will eventually pick up the pieces? I hope so.
Anticipating your part 2 … that’s what will happen in Syria, too? Sunni, Alawite, Christian, Kurd? A very meager peace, either/both of those would be a real and welcome accomplishment, and maybe that’s Russia’s back-handed plan – Syria first, as the pathfinder for Ukraine? … but as you point out @47 in that other thread, there is a force stalking the earth that is opposed to peace, no matter how meager.
Posted by: jfl | Jan 7 2016 9:37 utc | 131
Was it Woody Allen who declared ‘To never argue with fools; they bring you to their level and beat you with experience’?
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jan 7 2016 10:52 utc | 132
Formerly T-Bear | Jan 7, 2016 5:52:30 AM | 133
Actually it was Mark Twain; ““Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” Mark Twain
But point taken and well marked.
Posted by: V. Arnold | Jan 7 2016 14:58 utc | 133
@@ V. Arnold | Jan 7, 2016 9:58:33 AM | 134
Thanks. Not only was #133 not directly addressed to the intended (heaven forbid a reply was wanted from that quarter), it was also rhetorical. I try to choose the words I use carefully. None of the intended objective parties is stupid, far from it; thus fool was used as they can come is all shapes and calibers and memory has Woody Allen as being the font of that paraphrase (if your attribution is correct). Someone needs invent a smiley for {/rhetorical}, that will make some soul a rich person.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jan 7 2016 17:36 utc | 134
The people have spoken!
The question was rhetorical. The true answer is self-evident.
Fools only win derision.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 7 2016 17:38 utc | 135
in re 133-136
You kids lost on the facts (to the degree you presented any), and so now it’s back to greatest fantasy football moments and “clever” quotes you can’t quite get right. Feel free to continuing running up the score, and please do enjoy your victory dance.
We’re known by our enemies, I rather like mine. So all you haters, bring it on. I love reproving the ill-informed.
One sort of fool would be someone that advances an argument – like, say, Naked Captialism is neo-liberal – and gets all pissy when you ask for chapter and verse, and never delivers the goods. That’s the cowardly fool.
One class of stupid person would be the tendentious serial misreader. One that thought a prominent Marxist – like, say, Louis Proyect – was arguing for the Greeks to accept neo-liberalism when they actually preferred the KKE to win.
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 7 2016 23:25 utc | 136
Meanwhile Israel’s Final Solution, its genocide of the Palestinians continues …
Letter from Nazareth: The forgotten Palestinians
The unrest seething close by in the occupied West Bank brings unrelenting reports of Palestinian casualties. And in Syria, a stone’s throw from the Galilee, the crumbling regional order resounds like an ominous portent.
Equally unsettling are signs that Israeli society’s hostility towards its Palestinian minority is turning ever uglier. Chants of “Deaths to the Arabs!” have moved from the football stands to the high street.
My Nazareth-born wife no longer dares take along a knife to peel fruit on outings with our two young daughters, fearful that in the new mood of vigilantism she might be shot as a so-called “lone-wolf” attacker.
Israeli forces shoot dead 4th Palestinian youth in West Bank
On Thursday night, Israeli troopers opened fired on a young Palestinian woman[?] after he allegedly sought to stab soldiers at a checkpoint in the West Bank village of Beit Einun, located five kilometers (3.1 miles) northeast of al-Khalil (Hebron), Arabic-language Safa news agency reported.
The report came only hours after Israeli forces fatally shot three Palestinian youths over an “attempted stabbing attack” on a group of Israeli soldiers at the Gush Etzion Junction in southern West Bank.
The trio was later identified in the Palestinian media as 20-year-old Muhannad Ziyad Kawazbeh, Ahmad Salim Abd al-Majid Kawazbeh, 21, and 20-year-old Alaa Abed Muhammad Kawazbeh.
They were said to be the relatives of 18-year-old Ahmed Kawazbeh, who was shot dead after allegedly stabbing an Israeli soldier at the Gush Etzion Junction on January 5.
… no one has time to grieve for Palestinians … what, they’re not all dead yet? I guess we wish the Israelis would just get it over with? So that the Israeli Holocaust of the Palestinians will lie, still and dead, in the history books, alongside the NAZI Holocaust of the Jews. We can all breathe easy then, and say together, ‘Never again!’
Posted by: jfl | Jan 7 2016 23:49 utc | 137
Vote with your conscious. Remember, never trust Democrat Politicians.
They are war criminals and continue to support an apartheid regime in Israel.
My conscious is clear will never vote for any Democrats who refuses to denounce Israel for genocide of the Palestinians.
Posted by: Jack Smith | Jan 8 2016 4:37 utc | 138
… no one has time to grieve for Palestinians … what, they’re not all dead yet? I guess we wish the Israelis would just get it over with? …. We can all breathe easy then, and say together, ‘Never again!’
Even if the regime in Israel gather every single Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and in Israel and gas them, Democrats and our President will only mildly protest and will do nothing just as the Israel bulldozed 23-year-old American peace activist Rachel Corrie.
Let us not forget nor should we forgive – Rachel Corrie 1979 – 2003
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/action.htm
https://electronicintifada.net/content/photostory-israeli-bulldozer-driver-murders-american-peace-activist/4449
Posted by: Jack Smith | Jan 8 2016 4:58 utc | 139
Jack, the word is “Democratic.” When you describe a politicians party affiliation and you are talking about someone in the Democratic Party the word is “Democratic politician.” Using “Democrat Party” and “Democrat politician” is an old Republican trick, see: “”Democrat Party” is a political epithet used in the United States for the Democratic Party. The term has been used in negative or hostile fashion by conservative commentators and members of the Republican Party in party platforms, partisan speeches and press releases since at least 1940″ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet)
more Republican Dirty Tricks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8JDRiwoiZw
You should have backed Gravel or Kucinich, they would have been different. And how many times do I have to explain that at this point we are talking about the Democratic PRIMARY? Vote for a Green in the general election if you want put it is insane to sit on your hands and allow someone as bad as Hillary to win the Democratic primary.
See Me Vote, I Made a Video of Myself Voting for President of the United States:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlbfIyskOqA&list=PLfrlsC1yJ2dSVDDfOUl6AgmDZCy8WzIax
Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jan 8 2016 5:20 utc | 140
And did you get a chance to see my videos on Israel, Hillary, Obama, Kerry & Hartmann:
http://representativepress.blogspot.com/2016/01/you-are-making-assumptions-about-my.html
Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jan 8 2016 5:21 utc | 141
@ Tom Murphy | Jan 8, 2016 12:20:18 AM | 141
Are you not going to allow a term of scorn politically used by Republican politicos to also be used as a term of contempt by disillusioned Democrats when they see their political party emulate the Republican party down to the finest detail? If so, that certainly appears to be a function of the PC Police, PC Thought Control Swat Division. I had not thought you had that in you.
While your at seeing to things you might go above where Ruf-ass is having a fit at the checkout cause he cannot have what he wants and is holding forth in a screaming tantrum that nobody is paying his antics any attention, just what you would expect from a spoiled four year old. Sad really.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jan 8 2016 8:27 utc | 142
I didn’t read the story but saw a headline on the Donald ‘thinking Paris was in Germany’ or some such. Had the smell of Howard Dean’s scream about it …
The Stench of Hypocrisy: Ted Cruz & the Right to Rebellion
We have all heard that Ted Cruz is not exactly what he appears to be. He is not a knee-jerk reactionary bent on recapturing the glory of the fifties, when America was pure and its leaders were almost uniformly white male Christians. No, Ted Cruz is a strategic mastermind. He’s Karl Rove with pretty eyes and a smile that never travels far from his lips. He sees an opportunity and he seizes it.
He lets the Donald take the lead and stands ready to take up the banner as a viable option when the Donald inevitably implodes. Like Mr. Trump, he is adept at manipulating the gun loving, tax hating, Muslim fearing, intolerant Christian fundamentalist right to his own ambitious purpose. He will say and do anything at any cost to anyone but himself if it will lead him to the promise land.
… after the Hill buries the Bern and all the Hopies stay home in November, we might wake up to Ted Cruz. He is a very dangerous man.
Posted by: jfl | Jan 8 2016 12:24 utc | 143
and *migrants* crimes are taboo…..
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/german-public-broadcaster-apologizes-suppressing-report-about-migrant-attacks/ri12104
Posted by: denk | Jan 8 2016 17:11 utc | 145
B, what’s the German mood following the attacks in Cologne?
Posted by: Pat Bateman | Jan 8 2016 17:35 utc | 146