Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 3, 2015
Hunt On For Tayyeep Bin Ardogan Over Fighter Shoot-Down And Bosphorus Blockade

Today the Russian President Putin gave his yearly address to the Russian Federal Assembly. In the context of terrorism and the shooting down of the Russian fighter in Syria he addressed some very harsh words to the Turkish President Erdogan:

[T]he Turkish people are kind, hardworking and talented. We have many good and reliable friends in Turkey. Allow me to emphasise that they should know that we do not equate them with the certain part of the current ruling establishment that is directly responsible for the deaths of our servicemen in Syria.

We will never forget their collusion with terrorists. We have always deemed betrayal the worst and most shameful thing to do, and that will never change. I would like them to remember this – those in Turkey who shot our pilots in the back, those hypocrites who tried to justify their actions and cover up for terrorists.

I don’t even understand why they did it. Any issues they might have had, any problems, any disagreements we knew nothing about could have been settled in a different way. Plus, we were ready to cooperate with Turkey on all the most sensitive issues it had; we were willing to go further, where its allies refused to go. Allah only knows, I suppose, why they did it. And probably, Allah has decided to punish the ruling clique in Turkey by taking their mind and reason.

But, if they expected a nervous or hysterical reaction from us, if they wanted to see us become a danger to ourselves as much as to the world, they won’t get it. They won’t get any response meant for show or even for immediate political gain. They won’t get it.

Our actions will always be guided primarily by responsibility – to ourselves, to our country, to our people. We are not going to rattle the sabre. But, if someone thinks they can commit a heinous war crime, kill our people and get away with it, suffering nothing but a ban on tomato imports, or a few restrictions in construction or other industries, they’re delusional. We’ll remind them of what they did, more than once. They’ll regret it. We know what to do.

That was strong stuff from someone who usually stays very cool. These were not even threats but direct declarations that Russia will take revenge and will follow through.

What are "all the most sensitive issues" Turkey had and on which Russia was ready to cooperate? What has enraged Putin so much to declare Erdogan out of "mind and reason"? Was it only the ambush of the fighter plane? Or was there another, deeper provocation?

At the end of last week there were some rumors that Russian ships crossing the Bosphorus between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea were unreasonably delayed. Someone claimed that Turkey was holding them up but the issue soon vanished again. I filed that under "false rumor" but I was wrong. It apparently happened:

Turkey is creating obstacles for Russian ships without technically violating the right of free passage through the Turkish Straits, the online newspaper Vzglyad reports.

According to an online vessel tracking system, Russian ships moved in zigzags and circles on Nov. 29, waiting for hours for permission to enter the Bosphorus.

For instance, the Bratsk waited for permission from 10.00 to 19.00, and the Volgobalt from 3.00 to 17.00. However, as stated by the Ukrainian Center for Transport Policies, vessels belonging to the other countries passed through the straits without a delay on that day.

The Haberler.com news website reports that the transport ship Yauza was met by a Turkish submarine as it was passing through the Dardanelles on the morning of Nov. 30.

The Istanbul media reported the same day that at least two Turkish submarines were located in the vicinity of the Moskva missile cruiser (covering the Khmeimim Russian airbase in Syria).

Back in September Pat Lang posted this at his site:

[T]he Russians seem intent on reinforcing the Syrian government and the US is doing all it can to prevent this. The US has pressured governments seeking a denial of diplomatic overflight clearances for Russian cargo aircraft en route to Syria. It has also sought some means with which to deny Russian vessels passage through the Bosporus and Dardanelles.

It seems that Obama administration had developed the idea to delay Russian ships without directly violating the Montreux Cenvention that covers free passage through the strait. Erdogan used the trick last week to put additional pressure on Russia. But there was nothing in the wider news about this standoff.

So did this really happen and how was this resolved? Joanne Leon asked that question today and two answers from knowledgeable people were offered:

Elijah J. Magnier ‏@EjmAlrai
Turkey mentioned it and sent 2 submarines. Russia said "Turkey can't do it" and sent 2 submarines hunters

and

Dr Shahid @DR_SHAHID
Yup.
Russia Threatened To Nuke Ankara.
Problem Solved.

Hmm … I am not sure we know if the issue was really resolved with a nuclear threat or by some lesser means. But as no further ships were reported delayed the crisis seems to be over and Russia got its way.

To delay Russian ships by military means is rude behavior by Erdogan just short of openly declaring war. This and the fact that he ordered to ambush and shoot down a Russian jet likely incited Putin to use really harsh words today. Had Erdogan apologized and blamed some minions for the fighter jet shoot down the episode would have been forgotten by now.

But Erdogan escalated. Putin will now not rest until he has kicked that wannabe Sultan off his throne. My bet is that he will be more resourceful in his endeavor than Erdogan.

This for example is exceptional good trolling. Who arranged for this very intelligent hoax to appear in various U.S. media last night?

Pass the popcorn, please.

Comments

@68 somebody
It is not the only factor but it is a strong factor in many, if not most, wars. I did not limit myself to “civil wars” because they are often misnomers. A Civil War are [at least] two factions fighting to control the whole. Wars of independence are when [at least] one faction is just trying to leave the political map.
Re. the War Against Southern Independence. That was a predominant Anglo-Saxon faction against a predominant Celtic faction. It was , in some ways, the English versus the Irish-Scots, but in the New World.
Re. Spanish Civil. I do not know enough. Where the Communists mostly Basques or Catalonians. Were the Franconistas Castilians?
“But civil war is always economic – about resources and ownership, ideology is just a smoke screen.”
All wars, regardless, are economic struggles. But the difference approaches to the ownership and resource management are often a result of ethnic divisions.
The starting point in a society the has strong ethnic divisions is always that one of the groups is strong enough to impose a “common” civic life. The end in a civil war, other than the destruction and death and exhaustion, is that one group ends up winning and, again, imposing a “common” civic life by the same means as before, force.
@79 Benu
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aphorism
aphorism
noun aph·o·rism \ˈa-fə-ˌri-zəm\
a short phrase that expresses a true or wise idea
Full Definition of APHORISM
1: a concise statement of a principle
2: a terse formulation of a truth or sentiment: adage
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/saying
saying
noun
an old and well-known phrase that expresses an idea that most people believe is true
Full Definition of SAYING
: something said; especially : adage

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Dec 4 2015 18:31 utc | 101

@Harry@87
A very thoughtful answer to Anna Harvard’s concerns.
I would add that Mercouris’ Memo to Putin is a note of caution, that he qualifies with

In saying all this I realise that I am not informed about what has been going on behind the scenes.

After Putin appropriately called the SU-24 shooting a “stab-in-the-back,” he lamented how much personal investment he put into building strong Turkey-Russia ties. The Turkey Stream was one of those friendly gestures, one that would have provided Turkey lasting energy links to Russia, with the advantage of being a gas-hub for Southern Europe. A more symbolic gesture was Putin’s invitation to Erdogan (and Abbas) to the opening of Russia’s largest mosque, the biggest in Europe.
Putin’s angry, passionate reaction can be better understood against that background, partly as a warning to Turkey, another part for effect. Your perceptive “Its a calculated move” summed it all up. Putin appears as a non-emotional, phlegmatic character, but from the little I’ve read about him, he never forgives nor forgets betrayal. He’s known for never again talking to people he trusted and defrauded him by abusing their power/positions he entitled them with.
The flaw in Mercouris cautionary memo is the assumption that Erdogan, even after the blatant betrayal to Russia, is redeemable, or that given his influence in Turkey’s body polity, Russia owes him some deference. Wrong. Turkey drew first blood, remember? And as the son of a serviceman, for Putin the life of a soldier is sacred, and a red line. Adding insult to injury, Turkey never issued a proper apology, a diplomatic slap on the face of Russia. And Mercouris has it wrong again in his narrative about Erdogan calling Putin. He did only several hours later, after crying wolf to NATO first, scared as he was of the Russian reaction.
As you well pointed out, Mercouris is right about the psychology of an “angry and humiliated man,” but his projection of that truth onto the Putin-Erdogan raw lacks in details.
And you know well where the devil is…

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Dec 4 2015 18:31 utc | 102

The anticipatory social media confession conveniently found after the fact is as much a calling card of these terrorist attacks as the undamaged passport left at the scene is at this point. These guys need to mix it up a bit if they want to keep these things fresh.

Posted by: Bruno Marz | Dec 4 2015 18:31 utc | 103

the FBI said Farook had phone & social media contact w/ international terrorist suspsects http://www.inquisitr.com/2607474/syed-farook-was-radicalized-san-bernardino-shooter-in-touch-with-fbi-terror-suspect/

Posted by: Jiu Jitsu | Dec 4 2015 18:32 utc | 104

@ Harry | 98 What other options EU has?
Short term? By sabotaging North Stream II they keep transit to Ukraine operational subsidizing Kiev.
Long term, natural gas from the Mediterranean (Levantine) Basin. Cypruss, Greece, Syria, Israel (off shore Gaza) and Egypt have found large gas finds.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 4 2015 18:33 utc | 105

Malik was from Pakistan but lived in Saudi Arabia as a pharmacist (where she met
&
married Farook in a religious ceremony at their holiest shrine the Grand Mosque of Saudi Arabia (but it’s not official by US law unless they get certified US gov embassy documents or get married in the US -so they got married again under US law in the US) ..
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/12/04/investigation-heightens-to-determine-motive-of-san-bernardino-shooting-massacre
“However, CBS News has learned Farook was possibly radicalized prior to committing the senseless and violent act with his wife, Tashfeen Malik, 27,
as he was in contact with
people overseas who may be linked to terrorism.
A federal law enforcement official also confirmed to CBS that Malik pledged her allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi using a Facebook alias and later deleted postings.
“I can never imagine my brother or my sister-in-law doing something like this,” Khan said to Begnaud. “Especially because they were happily married. It’s just mind boggling why they would do something like this.”
Intelligence sources explained Farook, who was an American citizen employed as an inspector for the San Bernardino County Environmental Health Department, had traveled to Saudi Arabia to apparently attend the Hajj pilgrimage.
The pair were reportedly looking at ISIS propaganda online.”

Posted by: Jiu Jitsu | Dec 4 2015 18:35 utc | 106

TYPO CORRECTION
[…] but his projection of that truth onto the Putin-Erdogan raw lacks in details […]
It should be
[…] but his projection of that truth onto the Putin-Erdogan row lacks in details […]

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Dec 4 2015 18:52 utc | 107

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Dec 4, 2015 1:31:11 PM | 101
You are making it worse. Don’t tell me Wikipedia is wrong on the British slave traders :-))

Posted by: somebody | Dec 4 2015 18:58 utc | 108

75% of the Oil bought by Israel comes from Kurdistan at below market prices via Turkey ex-Ceyhan. ISIS sells stolen Syrian Oil to Turkish brokers via Mosul. Extremely flammable if not explosive revelation. Cui Buono? Together with the exposure of Erdogan’s family business the elephant in the room is the active role of Israel in this smuggling and looting affair. No wonder the MSM has reacted negatively to the revelations by Putin of Erdogan’s main business.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 4 2015 19:09 utc | 109

Lavrov- Cavusoglu meeting in Belgrade: Dead end.
“Lavrov told a televised news conference regarding the meeting, “We met with the head of the Turkish Foreign Ministry on his insistent request. We heard nothing new.”
He said Russia had reiterated its own position during the meeting with Çavuşoğlu on the sidelines of a conference of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in the Serbian capital of Belgrade.”
http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_davutoglu-moral-qualms-led-to-shooting-down-russian-jet_406162.html

Posted by: virgile | Dec 4 2015 19:21 utc | 110

@Sun Tzu@105
Short term? By sabotaging North Stream II they keep transit to Ukraine operational subsidizing Kiev.
All kind of speculations have plausibility, but from there to become possible is a long stretch.
Nord Stream AG is a join venture 51% Russian (Gazprom), 49% mostly German/Dutch. Germany won’t allow Ukronazis to sabotage a vital supply of energy to Europe, Merkel has been one of Maidanazis main supporters, and could pull the plug on their failed statelet and the Minsk II charade at any moment.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Dec 4 2015 19:39 utc | 111

@ Lone Wolf #111 All kind of speculations have plausibility, but from there to become possible is a long stretch. Nord Stream AG is a join venture 51% Russian (Gazprom), 49% mostly German/Dutch. Germany won’t allow Ukronazis to sabotage a vital supply of energy to Europe, Merkel has been one of Maidanazis main supporters, and could pull the plug on their failed statelet and the Minsk II charade at any moment.
The German Government is totally compromised with few exceptions

Germany Rebukes Its Own Intelligence Agency for Criticizing Saudi Policy
Source: New York Times
BERLIN — The German government issued an unusual public rebuke to its own foreign intelligence service on Thursday over a blunt memo saying that Saudi Arabia was playing an increasingly destabilizing role in the Middle East.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/world/europe/germany-rebukes-its-own-intelligence-agency-for-criticizing-saudi-policy.html

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 4 2015 19:49 utc | 112

Erdogan tries to ride the Arabian “ISIS” horse in Syria.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 4 2015 19:55 utc | 113

Sultan sensational video horse falling turkey.

Posted by: Carlos | Dec 4 2015 20:00 utc | 114

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 4, 2015 2:49:57 PM | 112
The unusual thing is that the BND gave a press conference at all. They are not supposed to.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 4 2015 20:07 utc | 115

@ somebody #115
Maybe they did because the electorate doesn’t know that their politicians are in collusion with the terror architects and financiers.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 4 2015 20:11 utc | 116

PB@55
You need to reread the China Times report more closely, they stated that plans to build LNG terminals and an oil pipeline were proceeding but all they said about the huge gas pipeline deal was ‘deepening energy cooperation’ which is newspeak without any real meaning except that no new agreement reflecting present economic realities has been reached. In the mean time BP has signed new multi billion dollar LNG deals to supply Chinese power plants with their product. They will also assist China with developing frackgas fields to increase their internal gas supplies.
The Nordstrean II deal may proceed but there is no pipeline or timeline for its construction. If Syria or Russia interferes or is crazy enough to shoot down the German surveillance aircraft that the Germans just voted to send to Syria/Iraq I doubt there will be any new cooperation, economic or political, between Germany and Russia. Also in the mean time huge LNG hubs are being built and soon to come online to supply gas anywhere it is needed without new pipelines.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Dec 4 2015 20:14 utc | 117

PB@55
You need to reread the China Times report more closely, they stated that plans to build LNG terminals and an oil pipeline were proceeding but all they said about the huge gas pipeline deal was ‘deepening energy cooperation’ which is newspeak without any real meaning except that no new agreement reflecting present economic realities has been reached. In the mean time BP has signed new multi billion dollar LNG deals to supply Chinese power plants with their product. They will also assist China with developing frackgas fields to increase their internal gas supplies.
The Nordstrean II deal may proceed but there is no pipeline or timeline for its construction. If Syria or Russia interferes or is crazy enough to shoot down the German surveillance aircraft that the Germans just voted to send to Syria/Iraq I doubt there will be any new cooperation, economic or political, between Germany and Russia. Also in the mean time huge LNG hubs are being built and soon to come online to supply gas anywhere it is needed without new pipelines.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Dec 4 2015 20:14 utc | 118

@115 somebody and @166 sun tzu.. i think like sun tzu here.. somebody – what are your thoughts on this as you are based in germany correct?

Posted by: james | Dec 4 2015 20:21 utc | 119

@Youcef@92
Erdogan behaves like a gangster. There are not only the traffic of oil. Turkey controls the Turkmen militias dismantled in 2011, 80,000 plants of Aleppo, Syria’s economic capital, and sent to the machines and tools in Turkey. We must not forget that these mafia activities take place under the eyes of the US government is well aware of these operations
Erdogan IS a gangster. He runs the Turkish mafia, one of several gangs around the world such as the “Eurostan” gang, ruled by the capo di tutti capi, the US “Deep State” gang, intend on dividing the world into mafia turfs for organized crime, e.g. extortion, racketeering, drug and human trafficking, labor and sexual slavery, sacking, pillaging and plundering natural/historical/archeological wealth from weaker, vulnerable states, on a massive, planetary scale, unknown to humanity before.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Dec 4 2015 20:22 utc | 120

@ W out W LNG can never compete with pipeline gas supply. The parasitic energy spent on LNG refrigeration (compression to liquefaction) reduces its appeal. In contrast, compression energy for pipeline supply is minimal when compared to LNG supply.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 4 2015 20:24 utc | 121

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Dec 4, 2015 3:22:48 PM
Erdogan IS a gangster. He runs the Turkish mafia, one of several gangs around the world such as the “Eurostan” gang, ruled by the capo di tutti capi, the US “Deep State” gang, intend on dividing the world into mafia turfs for organized crime, e.g. extortion, racketeering, drug and human trafficking, labor and sexual slavery, sacking, pillaging and plundering natural/historical/archeological wealth from weaker, vulnerable states, on a massive, planetary scale, unknown to humanity before.
This paragraph pretty well sums up the reality of our situation.

Posted by: Bruno Marz | Dec 4 2015 20:51 utc | 122

@Sun Tzu@121
Add to that the different in price, and that’s the reason Eurostan is moving from LNG to pipeline gas. (See link @Lone Wolf@88.)
WoW is pure blah-blah-blah, he never shows any evidence of his alleged “news sources” since he would self-debunk his own misguided interpretations of the “newspeak.” If he had any worth-reading link to the “China Times” why doesn’t he post it? Because we will find out it is all a fab’d lie.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Dec 4 2015 21:00 utc | 123

ST@121
The price of energy is important but not the deciding factor affecting the huge growth of LNG supplies and purchases. China’s building with Russia new LNG facilities shows that fact. Some governments are willing to pay more to reduce dependence on their grumpy bear neighbor for political and security reasons and that will probably continue.
The other attractive factor is that these LNG supplies can be sourced and delivered anywhere around the world without depending on interruptible pipeline sources that often cross unfriendly or unstable nations.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Dec 4 2015 21:10 utc | 124

@108 somebody
Wikipedia is be taken with a block of salt.
Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South
http://www.amazon.com/Cracker-Culture-Celtic-Ways-South/dp/0817304584
It has been a long time since I read the book.
One way to describe the differences is:
North: Picket fences
South: Open range
With all differences in lifestyle that it entails. Differences still extant, to a smaller degree but there they are.

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Dec 4 2015 21:11 utc | 125

@48 – thanks for @handles!!

Posted by: MadMax2 | Dec 5 2015 3:27 utc | 126

@33: virgile
wyh not let YPG initiate Kurdistan, perhaps under Russian cover? that would throw US, Israeli and Turkish designs into turmoil, and act as a buffer between Turkey and Syria.

Posted by: lotu | Dec 5 2015 18:29 utc | 127

@33: virgile
wyh not let YPG initiate Kurdistan, perhaps under Russian cover? that would throw US, Israeli and Turkish designs into turmoil, and act as a buffer between Turkey and Syria.

Posted by: lotu | Dec 5 2015 18:30 utc | 128

Lizzie Phelan ‏@LizziePhelan 2h2 hours ago
Captured militant claims ISIS gangs masquerading as FSA receive Turkish funding https://undercoverinfo.wordpress.com/2015/12/05/captured-isis-terrorist-claims-turkey-funding-jihadists-posing-as-fsa/

Posted by: brian | Dec 6 2015 1:35 utc | 129

I think the article is right but the wests motivation was perhaps to ship every ELINT specialist in the west to the area and try too get Russia to once again activate their “Cone of Silence” over Syria. An Active Denial system like the one the Rus Fed has, is a big big deal. Maybe EgoMan was manipulated by NATO to do the act with the words, “we gotcha back.” Then he goes back to NATO and they give him the finger and call him a nutjob.
What else could explain the terrified look in his speech after that trip. He knows he was double crossed by the best double crossers in the business. At the same time, that EgoMan’s Ottomania leads him to imagine new properties from Sinai to China and North to Austria that were once Turk, properties with energy Turkey needs, they were the stars in his eyes that have gone dark. He’s living on borrowed time.
It looks like Putin will take out the Gray Wolf too. The Turks and Germans go back a long way.
The world will be a better place. Lastly, with iraq like a suburb of Teheran, telling the US to get lost, and the Russians helping the Kurds, I would not be surprised to see the US and Russia agree to create a kurdish state by slicing off a third of Turkey.

Posted by: BolyHoly | Dec 6 2015 6:52 utc | 130

found on the net:

“But if some in the Turkish leadership decided to lick the Americans in that place – I don’t know whether they did the right thing or not.”
However, “that place” here is a Russian polite expression for derrière. And the correct American equivalent of “to lick the Americans in that place” is “to kiss the Americans in the ass”.
Bravo Vladimir Vladimirovich. You said it.

Posted by: From The Hague | Dec 18 2015 19:52 utc | 131

It was a bomber, not a fighter plane. You civilians almost never get it right.

Posted by: James | Dec 31 2015 0:55 utc | 132