Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 30, 2015

Kenneth Roth's Schizophrenic Positions On Zahran Alloush

Can someone explain the logic or thought behind these tweets of Human Rights Watch director Kenneth Roth?


Tweeted at 9:35 PM - 25 Dec 2015

Tweeted at 12:25 AM - 30 Dec 2015


Alloush was released from jail, which was then one of the demands of those peaceful protesters and Human Rights Watch, so he could "taint" the "uprising". But he also was a valid "choice" for the Syrian people even as Roth's own organization accused him of war crimes? How does that compute?

Interestingly the link in the first tweet goes to an NYT piece by Anne Barnard which the Angry Arab described as:

A moving tribute to moderately polygamous, moderately sectarian, and moderately murderous, and moderately Salafite Zahran Alloush

The link in the second tweet sent only five days later goes to a more realistic biography of Alloush written by Aron Lund for Syria Comment.

It seem that Roth's opinions are more influenced by the latest piece he read than by case based analysis. Or does it depend on which sponsor is  more ready at this moment to shuffle big money into his pockets?

Posted by b on December 30, 2015 at 17:24 UTC | Permalink


I wish they respected us enough to check for internal consistency of the propaganda before dumping it on our heads

Posted by: Cresty | Dec 30 2015 17:30 utc | 1

kenneth roth is a liar and a hypocrite... like the us admin, he thinks aloush is a 'moderate' until someone points out something different.. the us 'regime' use two words to regularly dismiss alternative viewpoints - assads 'regime' has murdered and brutalized the syrian people and anyone who is opposed to him is a 'moderate', excluding isis or al nusra.. no mention of funneling the weapons and terrorists into syria and the consequences of this on the syrian people or leadership... it's a one way st. conversation.. kenneth roth is on the same one way st... liars and hypocrites in partnership.. hrw - another prop shop...

Posted by: james | Dec 30 2015 17:35 utc | 2

This bastard was all about killing Shias and annihilation, this same bastard was the poodle of the west. Thos who can kill Shias are moderate like Saudis, Qatari, GCC, Turkey Israel and EU. I am glad he is sent to hell and hope to see Kenneth and likes also see the day when they face the music.

Posted by: ABC | Dec 30 2015 17:46 utc | 3

Ken and Samantha Powers. King and Queen of simulating "concern" for human rights in 2015. They should get an award.

Posted by: neuronaut | Dec 30 2015 17:51 utc | 4

Human Rights Watch used to send us return address stickers in hopes we'd remit a donation. After learning about Roth and his crap, I'm ashamed I ever used them. Explain his mindset? Based I the gutter like his sponsor the Outlaw US Empire. Amnesty International and the Red Cross make three once seemingly legitimate aide groups that are now proven to be mere tools of the same Depraved Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 30 2015 18:14 utc | 5

Neither. In the world of courtiers like Roth, anyone (short of bare ISIS) is a "moderate when opposing the Assad government, and a dangerous radical when opposing more favored unicorns.

Posted by: sid_finster | Dec 30 2015 18:16 utc | 6

Roth is consistent: Whatever Assad does is bad.
Perhaps not coincidentally, this is also the opinion of the Obama administration.

Posted by: NoOneYouKnow | Dec 30 2015 18:59 utc | 7

He is not making a mistake, he is operating consistent with the western insufferable 'indispensable and exceptional' lunatic self righteous mentality that always spins to the operating narrative of the Empire.
Consistency be damned.
Man the torpedoes of agitprop and disinformation no matter what the truth.

Posted by: AriusArmenian | Dec 30 2015 19:00 utc | 8

One question.
Is Ken Roth a tribesman?

Posted by: Bunghole | Dec 30 2015 19:11 utc | 10

@10 Do bears shit in the woods?

Posted by: Yonatan | Dec 30 2015 19:30 utc | 11

A moment of yuletide cheer.

Russian humor at its best!

Posted by: Yonatan | Dec 30 2015 19:34 utc | 12

It seems like US is becoming just as sectarian as the worst of the Middle East. Or at least it appears that way because that's how we are presented by our media.Watching what is happening in Iraq, I think it is only going to get worse as the mission to tear Iraq and Syria apart has not gone away. I find it frightening. I don't have a side. It increasingly looks like my government has chosen the wrong side (when they shouldn't be choosing a sectarian side at all).

Posted by: Joanne Leon | Dec 30 2015 19:46 utc | 13

Roth is caring out the same PR lies and planned hypocrisy as that of the evil US Empire - who Roth serves disgracefully.
dictators, Nazis, terrorists and genocidal maniacs who are loyal to the US evil empire are lied about as being "good", and those who aren't loyal or obedient - are evil and bad.

Posted by: tom | Dec 30 2015 19:48 utc | 14

Dear B,

In that first tweet I think Roth means Assad when he says "him". In other words, Assad kills Zahran Alloush as part of a presumed general policy of eliminating the so-called "moderate rebels" so as to force Syrians to choose between himself (Assad) and ISIS.

The logic behind the second tweet then becomes consistent with the first tweet: Assad supposedly uses extremists like Zahran Alloush to infiltrate and discredit genuine dissent.

Of course the foregoing assumes that Roth is a rational human being. The reality could be that he does whatever he's told to do, and whatever that is has no logic because Washington policy is based on whatever tactics work in the moment.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 30 2015 20:21 utc | 15

Anyone have any documentation linking HRW and/or Amnesty International to US foreign policy initiatives or to US officials? If so please post. Thanx.

Posted by: Ima Monkey | Dec 30 2015 20:26 utc | 16

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 30, 2015 1:14:38 PM | 5

"Human Rights Watch used.......the Outlaw US Empire. Amnesty International and the Red Cross make three once seemingly legitimate aide groups that are now proven to be mere tools of the same Depraved Empire".

Oops! You forgot to include Freedom House. Here is a piece from Freedom Crap

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 30 2015 20:38 utc | 17

@16 ima.. this might get you started..

Posted by: james | Dec 30 2015 20:52 utc | 18

wrt: james | Dec 30, 2015 3:52:50 PM | 18

The link you gave is broken, so this should fix it:

I have noted on many occasions that "Human Rights Watch" was just a shill for the Western Empire. But I didn't collect notes on it.

Posted by: blues | Dec 30 2015 21:27 utc | 19

Many Bashar al Assad haters would find anything to put the blame on him. That's how they cope with their frustration that Bashar al Assad has outsmarted Obama, Hollande, Cameron, Erdogan and the Saudi family.

Posted by: virgile | Dec 30 2015 21:34 utc | 20

US policy is becoming increasingly confused - Roth I take as an example. It is probably a product of taking one side (against Asad), and feeling committed to it, even when the disadvantages appear. Not any logic. They have difficulty in changing course.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 30 2015 21:34 utc | 21

@19 blues. thanks.. not sure why that happens sometimes..

ot - here is M K Bhadrakumar's latest article from dec 30th..
"What explains Obama’s visceral dislike of Putin? There must be some reason behind it — some deep-rooted complex or insecurity, as Wood points out. At any rate, Obama’s ‘communication gap’ with Putin remains a factor in US-Russia relations through 2016. Meanwhile, the demonizing of Putin continues unabated in the US media organs."

larvov response and more connected to some of that - "The United State decided Tuesday (dec 29th) to expand its sanction list against Russia, one day after the European Union announced it would prolong the economic sanctions against Russia until July 31, 2016."

and today from - Energy War Heats Up: Israeli-Turkish Normalization and Turkish Base in Qatar.

Posted by: james | Dec 30 2015 21:37 utc | 22

@1 Well said.

Posted by: Au | Dec 30 2015 21:45 utc | 23 the US and A?!

Did you watch: "Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan"?

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 30 2015 21:49 utc | 24

re James 22

I don't see Badrakhumar's suggestion of Obama personally viscerally hating Putin. US aggression against Russia is more to do with the deep state, the Neo-Cons in power, what Pat Lang calls the 'Borg', reviving the Cold War, and Obama is unable to prevent it.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 30 2015 21:53 utc | 25

This is an Energy (Economic) war as much as it is an inter muslim feud. Russia and Saudi Arabia are rivals for the top Crude Oil producer spot. Qatar and Russia are rivals in the Natural Gas production department. Iran is a rival of Saudi Arabia and Qatar on both Oil & Gas production respectively. Furthermore, Persian and Shia Iran is a rival of Sunni Saudi Arabia fighting for islamic leadership and supremacy. The USA doesn't want any rival for power but Russia is an unquestionable nuclear and military power that buck's its diktats. China has no beef in the Oil and/or Gas producing department as it is a net importer of hydrocarbons. It benefits immensely from the current Oil & Gas wars. But China doesn't need any muslim caliphate wannabes within its borders, thus it is naturally in alliance with Shia Iran and also keeps good relations with Sunni Pakistan as a convenient check to India's interests. China is an economic giant that rivals both USA and Japan in the size of its economy. China knows that if Russia were to capitulate the result would be for China to follow as the last pawn to be submitted. So China would just support Russia stance from the background. Therefore, Putin or no Putin, Obama or not Obama, Erdogan or not Erdogan, Asad or not Asad this pickle will be settled with a loud bang, sooner or later.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 30 2015 22:07 utc | 26

"This is an Energy (Economic) war..." for the sake of argument there is plenty of all kind of hydrocarbons on market, cheap or not so cheap but still available. Yet, that's not enough the West and in particular the US want it for free. Therefore they need to kill entire nations and commit genocide against them a Muslim nations.

So, No, it is not, full stop. It is not shame of having dyslexia. It is shame being stupid with thousands of sources.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 30 2015 22:16 utc | 27

@25 laguerre, pat lang holds a confusing viewpoint that includes and disallows different ideas.. one thing i learned at ssr is how you are not allowed to mention that money has anything to do with anything.. it freaks the host and sycophants at ssr out.. confused usa foreign policy can be about a lot of things, but never is it about money!!! i noticed just yesterday and i quote "The IO campaign that has resulted in this stupidity has obvious Zionist roots and has been sustained for decades. pl" zionism is an ongoing problem, but money has nothing to do with any of it!!! when i want a mix of comedy and commentary i read ssr and to see what pat and others at his site have to say..

Posted by: james | Dec 30 2015 22:19 utc | 28

re 26

Excuse me, but waste of time. The battle is not about oil, but the survival of Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are panicking because the Shi'a are sitting on their oil in the Eastern Province. They've decided to try to eliminate Shi'ism entirely (of course impossible), in order to settle the control of their oil. That's the long and short of it. pretty much explains everything.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 30 2015 22:24 utc | 29

re 28

pat lang holds a confusing viewpoint that includes and disallows different ideas..
I was not talking about his general position, but rather citing his idea of the 'Borg'.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 30 2015 22:33 utc | 30

re 29 ? who says it is about Oil? It is the control of the top spot for Oil production. That gives you control and the opportunity to drive the market up or down. The opportunity to impose quotas, etc.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 30 2015 22:35 utc | 31

ps re 30

Lots of Blog owners are sensitive, and don't like certain views. It's their blog, and they can do what they want.

Lang is American military, with a lot of experience of the Middle east, and appears to have taken against the government. You have to take him for what he is.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 30 2015 22:49 utc | 32

So, No, it is not, full stop. It is not shame of having dyslexia. It is shame being stupid with thousands of sources.

The only stupid thing is the use of ad hominem. Full stop

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 30 2015 22:51 utc | 33

re 31.

It is the control of the top spot for Oil production.
It really isn't. It's more life-or-death for the Saudis, as they see it.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 30 2015 22:53 utc | 34

Saudis? Really?

OK, so why Saudis only?

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 30 2015 22:57 utc | 35

For you Tabula rasa folks grab Lenin's book The State and Revolution. If this is too radical than a liberal one, Mearsheimer's The Tragedy of Great Power Politics.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 30 2015 23:07 utc | 36

OK, so why Saudis only?
Who said 'only'? It is the Saudis leading the pro-Sunni sectarian battle. The US decided to go along with their obsessions, but it is not the only fight in the Middle East.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 30 2015 23:09 utc | 37

The missing bit is Israel, by the way.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 30 2015 23:16 utc | 38

@16, go to your window, it's written in fire across the sky.

Posted by: ruralito | Dec 30 2015 23:17 utc | 39

@Sun Tzu. Sun Tzu...right!?

"The only stupid thing is the use of ad hominem. Full stop"

Pardon me Your Highness.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 30 2015 23:17 utc | 40


Who else?

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 30 2015 23:19 utc | 41

Human Rights Front Groups ( Humanitarian Internentionists Warring On Syria):

Posted by: dChristine | Dec 30 2015 23:20 utc | 42

Who else?
We've discussed this a thousand times, it doesn't need to be repeated just for the Russian specialists.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 30 2015 23:24 utc | 43

HRW: Human Rights Watch or Hypocrites Representing Washington?

Posted by: dChristine | Dec 30 2015 23:27 utc | 44

HRW = Human Rights Washington

Posted by: slirs | Dec 30 2015 23:28 utc | 45

@ Laguerre | Dec 30, 2015 5:49:39 PM | 32

Lang is American military, with a lot of experience of the Middle east, and appears to have taken against the government.

Yes, and in addition, he knows Arabic and knows about Islam, which puts him head and shoulders above typical US military people. He's quirky, mercurial and easily pissed-off, but his speaking out against some of the insanity in US foreign and military policy makes me appreciate him, even if doesn't go as far as I'd like.

Posted by: PhilK | Dec 30 2015 23:31 utc | 46

It's just a lying douchebag proving he is smarter than the stenographers at the MSM. They will never call out this bullshit.

Posted by: Secret Agent | Dec 31 2015 0:01 utc | 47

@30/32 laguerre.. yes.. thanks. i was aware of all that.. doesn't change my viewpoint expressed initially.

Posted by: james | Dec 31 2015 0:05 utc | 48

@42 dchristine.. that link is a good starting point for ima monkey as well..

Posted by: james | Dec 31 2015 0:07 utc | 49

I think Kenneth Roth got it right this time, Zahran Alloush is Assad's police at Ghouta "Damascus largest suburb: include the city of Douma and 2 other districts" Like Assad, Alloush killed, tortured, kidnaped and imprisoned both peaceful and armed opponents to Assad regime, and "bomb" Damascus by fatwas and phony claims to justify Assad's massive killing in Ghouta by barrel bomb, chemical weapons, land and air strikes, siege and starvation
Lately Alloush end up in the front in calling for an Alliance 'beyond even negotiating" with the regime to fight ISIS
US, Russia and 65 countries gathering in Syria to fight ISIS, and Assad eyes on a slice in this cake, so they get rid of Alloush by a single bullet in his lung at the edge of Marj al-Sultan districts which Alloush give back o the regime forces the week before

Posted by: Inad Hamadany | Dec 31 2015 0:20 utc | 50

Jaysh al-Islam used civilians as human shields

Posted by: Les | Dec 31 2015 0:37 utc | 51

Haha, wow. Went through the pretty good Landis article Roth links to trying to spot where Roth's head is at with that 2nd tweet. But no... That's a contradiction a few days apart alright.

@Jen 15 re: US strategy. Obama has been telling us that there is a communication problem between his government and his subjects - while Obama's critic's inside the US critique him for, not the miscommunication of strategy...but that there is actually no strategy at all. It is tweets such as these from stooges like Roth that paint the picture as you say in your post: There is in fact, no strategy - let's just make shit up as we go along.

A strategy like this is no match for Lavrov's straight forward and on point: If it looks like a terrorist, moves like a terrorist, acts like terrorist...then its a terrorist. That's a simple philosophy on proceedings that almost everyone can buy into.

Of course, it could well be that the total dogs breakfast that is US strategy vs ISIS is one of ' Let's just get involved a little bit and say a few harsh words like 'regime change' in order to appease the neocons, and just do very little in open theatre of war...' A recipe for embarrassment, but probably stalls the bomb getting dropped for a little while.

Those Nobel Peace prizes work in mysterious ways...

Posted by: MadMax2 | Dec 31 2015 0:46 utc | 52

Whatever happened to the 2000+ rebels who were to be bussed out to Raqqa for the biblical showdown...did that happen...?

Posted by: MadMax2 | Dec 31 2015 0:50 utc | 53

I always remember that HRW started life as a wholly owned State Department subsidiary right after Helsinki, with the mission of going after the USSR on human rights. It was the first official overt human rights weapon of the USG, and it still is. Google "HRW State Department revolving door" for just the most recent of the periodic waves of revulsion with HRW, this one centering around Nobel Peace Laureates to Human Rights Watch: Close Your Revolving Door to U.S. Government.

It's primarily a question of focus - of whose human rights ox gets gored. With HRW it's not USrael's, not the West's in general, or their darlings du jour. Same with all the well-funded human rights goups, more or less. In fact, follow the money. Any well-funded NGO is working in the interests of those who fund it.

Bruce Dixon has some good observations along those lines, 2016's New Years Revolution… Time To Lose Some Old Habits, Gain Some New Ones. New Years, as a punctuation point of the perennial present, is as good time as any for us to remember what's up and to get on with it. There's no time like the present for losing bad habits.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 31 2015 0:52 utc | 54

@18 james,

Valid URLs MUST begin with a scheme, "http://" or "https://". Browsers add these internally to the contents of the URL bar for your typing convenience but HTML does not. If you make a point to ensure your copied URL is complete, you'll never have that trouble. If you don't prepend it manually in code, the browser interprets it as a relative path from the current page instead of an absolute URL.


Posted by: Jonathan | Dec 31 2015 1:03 utc | 55

Ukraine 2014 soured me for all time on Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.

Posted by: Anunnaki | Dec 31 2015 1:35 utc | 56

Like NGO's, Radio Free Europe, NYT, NPR, CNN, and Barry Obama, HRW is a front for the CIA. Ann Barnard is the new Judith Miller.

Posted by: fast freddy | Dec 31 2015 1:48 utc | 57

@28 james,

Oil = substitute slaves. It seems more reliable to treat their palace intrigues as plays to establish their upper hand in the ruler-labor power relation as fact on the ground by the time the deck has been exhausted. The last of the cheap oil will, as far as elites are concerned, best be used to herd people onto work farms so that the lordship can eat without working.

@50 Inad,

Loyalty to Washington is treason against humanity. Why don't those people deserve to be found in shallow graves simply for being employed by an enemy state? Or does Democracy™ mean nothing more than that US elites get a vote in everything?

Posted by: Jonathan | Dec 31 2015 2:08 utc | 58

No, freddy

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 31 2015 2:09 utc | 59

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 30, 2015 5:24:56 PM | 29
Thier oil?

Their oil, is in the eye of the beholder, or more correctly in the hand of the beholder. Like in the Syria ,Waite a few years and see what will happen.

Posted by: Kooshy | Dec 31 2015 2:59 utc | 60

"Many Bashar al Assad haters"

Posted by: virgile | Dec 30, 2015 4:34:25 PM | 20

Why an a hole like Roth becomes and Assad hater, did Assad do his mom, and just find out after 2011?

This A hole have no personal opinions, they just have personal Many Bashar al Assad haters would find anything to put the blame on him. That's how they cope with their frustration that Bashar al Assad has outsmarted Obama, Hollande, Cameron, Erdogan and the Saudi family.

Posted by: virgile | Dec 30, 2015 4:34:25 PM | 20

Posted by: Kooshy | Dec 31 2015 3:08 utc | 61

Description of the attackers' mood at Bataclan shows the use of Captagon
(but no mention of that in the article of course)

Posted by: Mina | Dec 31 2015 3:16 utc | 62

@ 55 jonathan.. thanks..

@ 58 jonathan.. maybe that is in reference to @26, not @28? looks like it!

Posted by: james | Dec 31 2015 3:21 utc | 63

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 30, 2015 5:07:05 PM | 26

Saudis can't ever poses the leadership of Islam, no matter what they did or how much they spend. To poses the leadership of Islam, traditionally only three countries can and have done that, Iran, Egypt, and Ottomans (and that only because they wear able to defeat the Romans/Christians).
To possess leadership in Islam there is a need to have a modernity, as well as a vibrant proactive culture capable of producing and expanding Islam by attraction. Saudis have none of that.

Posted by: Kooshy | Dec 31 2015 3:24 utc | 64

BTW on Zahran Allush
Mohammed Zahran Alloush (1971-2015), also known as Abu Abdullah, was a salafi activist from Douma, a town east of Damascus in the Ghouta region. His father, Abdullah Alloush, is a salafi theologian resident in Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: Mina | Dec 31 2015 3:33 utc | 65

ot - two new articles today from Elijah J M

Posted by: james | Dec 31 2015 3:58 utc | 66

"To possess leadership in Islam there is a need to have a modernity, as well as a vibrant proactive culture capable of producing and expanding Islam by attraction. Saudis have none of that."

That is a good insight and something that needs mentioning time and time again. This should be the Islamic calling. They need to take it up a notch. Lead by enlightened example, not animal like behavior.

Posted by: Andy | Dec 31 2015 5:58 utc | 67


ot - two new articles today from Elijah J M

Thanks for the links, james. Iraq doesn't seem to get off the fence it's been straddling on for quite a while now, they are still in the US grip, sadly.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Dec 31 2015 14:09 utc | 68

Roth is just another corrupt Zionist Jew.Nothing more to be said.
Hey,no talk of the NSA and Israel,and American political traitors?And believe me,the traitors are bipartisan.
Trump calls out Obomba for personal screening of SW.
I'm with Trump with that.What the hell is the POTUS watching stupid comic books?Jesus,the absolute mediocrity of our leaders,where comic books are intelligent,or deserving of attention.Ziollywood juvenile crap.
Which exposes his absolute lack of real savvy.

Posted by: dahoit | Dec 31 2015 15:25 utc | 69

IS claims credit for attacks in Dagestan (home of the Boston Marathon bombers and the Caucacus Emirates islamist group)

Mercenaries from the Caucacus Emirates insurgency have been fighting in both Syria and Ukraine per Vice or MEE (don't remember which).

Posted by: Les | Dec 31 2015 15:55 utc | 70


Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 31 2015 15:57 utc | 71

Ah, my apologies

that is fascist's propaganda. i mean Marathon bombing thing. Agree?

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 31 2015 16:00 utc | 72

Guess that means al-Shishani is really dead, then?

Posted by: Les | Dec 31 2015 16:08 utc | 73

@ Kooshy #64 Islam is an off shoot of Talmudism. Islam is predicated on the Old Testament with some twisting like the promise to Abraham was with Ishmael not with Isaac. Besides, Islam references to Jesus and Mary are completely twisted with exclusively non canonical apocrypha quotations instead of legitimate quotations. For example, Islam uses unflattering tales for Jesus's infancy which the gospel witnesses are silent about. Islam denies the death and resurrection of Jesus. So what leadership value is there in Islam if it is a string of lies from beginning to end?

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 31 2015 16:16 utc | 74

“Human Rights” is a worthless concept.
The US (domestic: police violence, plead guilty misuse, 2 million prisoners, and so on; foreign: invading, bombing, supporting terrorists, and so on) and its vassals uses it to blame and shame Russia about gay rights and China about artist rights (Wei Wei).

Posted by: From The Hague | Dec 31 2015 16:21 utc | 75

Roth is consistent: Whatever Assad does is bad.
Perhaps not coincidentally, this is also the opinion of the Obama administration.

Posted by: NoOneYouKnow | Dec 30, 2015 1:59:19 PM | 7

Very good point. Entire think tank / establishment thinking is based on such reasoning. There can be disputes if Assad is worse then Hitler or if it is rather better not to compare him to Hitler, and of course, there is a list of people and countries that define "bad", what they do is bad. Of course, what good folks do is always good, or barring that, "understandable". NYT had an article on parading prisoners in cages in East Ghouta (were Alloush held sway), including Alewite women, to discourage bombing, and apart from the explanations, I found it striking that folks who did it were "media activists". Who are also most authoritative news source from NYT point of view. Can they be biased? Perish the thought.

Another approach is to pretend to use rules, judge the act by its attributes and not by the actor. Then we carefully select attributes: using precision weapons is good and using imprecise weapons is bad, and that works very nicely when Israel wrecks havoc with ethical precision methods and suffers ghastly savagery (preschool children crying because of Iron Dome alarms) from imprecise weapons. Or when American precision weapons exterminate wedding parties or hospitals while Assad uses imprecise barrel bombs. So when Russians send their own aircraft, the first line of carping was that they use "dumb bombs". However, the killing of Alloush was quite precise, so we are back to Approach One, this NEVER fails.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 31 2015 16:24 utc | 76

So what leadership value is there in Islam if it is a string of lies from beginning to end?

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 31, 2015 11:16:49 AM | 74

Sorry, with what your understanding and explanation of Islam is, you are incapable to understand what values it's leadership may have. You need to discuss your understanding of Islam on Israelis bogs not with me.

Posted by: Kooshy | Dec 31 2015 16:41 utc | 77

@ Kooshy # 77 You need to discuss your understanding of Islam on Israelis bogs not with me.

Since Islam is an off shoot of Talmudism, you may need to discuss its origin on Israeli blogs. In fact, the worship of moon-god allah in the Levant predates Muhammad by about 3,000 years.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 31 2015 17:38 utc | 78

Sounds like Shoebat is Jewish.

Posted by: Les | Dec 31 2015 18:14 utc | 80

Allah as Moon-God criticism

Posted by: Les | Dec 31 2015 18:16 utc | 81

@ Les #80 Sounds like Shoebat is Jewish.

Who is Walid Shoebat?

For the record, my name is Walid Shoebat. I used to be a radicalized Muslim willing to die for the cause of Jihad until I converted to Christianity in 1994. As a member of the PLO I was involved in terror activity, and was imprisoned in Jerusalem for three weeks. In prison, I was recruited to plant a bomb in Bethlehem as a result of which, thank God, no one was injured. My mother was an American and my father a Palestinian Arab. My parents sent me in 1978 to the United States to study at Loop College in Chicago Illinois. There I was recruited at a hotel “Terror Conference” by Jamal Said, a founder of the IAP (Islamic Association of Palestine) and Imam at one of the largest mosques in Chicago. The IAP was a forerunner to today’s Hamas terror organization and also to the terror front group CAIR (Council for American Islamic relations). This was in the early 1980s when I was being trained for Jihad activities in the USA along with many other young foreigners as well as US citizens. The Imams were the prime recruiters for terrorism then as they are still today and terror conferences are held all over the USA to this day. Here is a link to a sample we have on video which was held in 1989, over twelve years before the 9/11 attacks.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Dec 31 2015 18:27 utc | 82

He seems to be an imposter.

Posted by: Les | Dec 31 2015 18:48 utc | 83


I think that Pat Lang doesn't factor the issue of money into his views on foreign policy, because he -- as do so many others in the anti-war community, both Left and Right -- doesn't want to believe that the Federal Reserve and other central banks are a driving force behind imperial wars and military intervention, covert or otherwise. Either that, or he feels there is not enough evidence out there for him of anyone else to connect the dots between western banking and western-led wars. I understand that it's hard to point the finger of blame on the banks, but that's only because the banks are exceptionally good at covering their tracks, especially when it involves money. Those who follow the money trail when it involves the banks will oftentimes be thrown off the scent, if not led astray.

But if you believe to a large extent, as I and many others do from the paleo-Right and the paleo-Left, that all wars are essentially bankers' wars, then you'll have no trouble at all in believing that big money is behind most imperial wars and military interventions, especially when they are done covertly through central intelligence agencies, chief among them: the CIA, MI6, and Mossad.

It seems to me that Pat Long and others like him like to blow off anyone who suggests that central bankers are calling the shots in terms of shaping foreign policy, be it to wage war of aggression or simply instigate regime change. I'm not a huge fan of anti-Fed warriors like Max Keiser or, say, the paleo-conservatives at Zero Hedge, but I will give them credit for frequently and successfully connecting the dots between western banking and western-led wars. Several years ago I recall Jeremy Scahill being on Max Keiser's show. Jeremy spoke about the US military conducting various covert operations throughout the Muslim world, from Somalia and Ethiopia to Pakistan and Yemen. Max questioned Jeremy on the central bank's role in these operations, Jeremy just blow him off as well, suggesting that he doesn't want to be accused of engaging in nutty, New-World-Order conspiracy theories. I suspect that Pat Long doesn't want to be accused of this as well.

Posted by: Cynthia | Dec 31 2015 19:16 utc | 84

Yule or Yuletide ("Yule time") is the festival of the winter-solstice observed by the historical Germanic peoples, later undergoing Christianised reformulation resulting in the now better-known Christmastide.

I wish you "Bona Saturnalia"

In the Saturnalia,Lucian relates that “During My week the serious is barred; no business allowed.Drinking,noise and games and dice, appointing of kings and feasting of slaves,singing naked,clapping of frenzied hands,an occasional ducking of corked face sin icy water—such are the functions over which I preside.” (Lucian of Samosata: Saturnalia,Book IV)
Sacaea was the Persian version (and was a festival to celebrate the harvesting of barley—and subsequent making of beer and debauchery which lasted twelve days during which priests begged their gods for long life,prosperity,wanton sexuality,and fecundity with Marduk being the god who would suffer and die on a stake [later mistranslated as a cross] and rise on the third day closely paralleling the Christian account.

Just as allmighty Saturn depicted in this Goya's picture today's modern "Saturns" devouring people and states mercilessly.

There is something in it.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 31 2015 19:20 utc | 85

@ Your Highness post #82

"I used to be a radicalized Muslim..." Hilarious, just hilarious. By the US, and the West's "standards" what is it? The answer is: All Muslims are "radical" except those who are "liberal" aka the fascists. One example is Ahmed Chalabi of something like Fuad Ajami filth in human embodiment.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 31 2015 20:06 utc | 86

Saturnalia was a long Winter solstice holiday observed by the Roman empire in honor of the goddess Saturn. Christmas was added as a holiday just after Saturnalia, just as Kwanzaa was latter added after Christmas. The Jewish holiday Hannukah sometimes overlaps Saturnalia.

Posted by: Les | Dec 31 2015 21:16 utc | 87

@84 cynthia.. thanks for your comments... we all have our blind spots.. far be it for me to point what pat langs are, but the passion/hostility he expresses towards ED's or 'economic determinists' while at the same thing thinking their is an ed under every new poster at his site is (i think) indicative of a blind spot!

the coincidence of financial sanctions often preceding military actions must just be another weird coincidence that i happened to notice that has no bearing on any of this either!! and just this morning reading pepe escobar affirms more of the same. here is the opening paragraph of his article: "The fight to the death in Moscow’s inner circles is really between the Eurasianists and the so-called Atlantic integrationists, a.k.a. the Western fifth column. The crux of the battle is arguably the Russian Central Bank and the Finance Ministry – where some key liberalcon monetarist players are remote-controlled by the usual suspects, the Masters of the Universe.

The same mechanism applies, geopolitically, to any side, in any latitude, which has linked its own fiat money to Western central banks. The Masters of the Universe always seek to exercise hegemony by manipulating usury and fiat money control."

no, i think pat lang is a knowledgeable person on a number of matters who doesn't like the idea that the christian nation he thought he was a part of has turned 'incarceration for profit' on him.. i am sure he's not alone in wishing corporations were beholden to democratic principles and etc, if he can entertain the concept.. i am not sure how he avoids it all, but then again blind spots are blind spots and we all have them..

Posted by: james | Dec 31 2015 22:51 utc | 88

@Les | Dec 31, 2015 4:16:40 PM | 87

Yes, but origin of December, 25 and if you like Christmas goes far beyond Romans. In fact origin is in Mesopotamia it is associated with god Nimrod/Baal and in Egypt. December 25 was birthday of the sun-god Mithra in Egypt Osiris.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 31 2015 23:31 utc | 89

"The destructive legacy of Arab liberals"

as always very good Joseph Massad.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Dec 31 2015 23:44 utc | 90

In order for it to gain a foothold, Christmas was fitted upon existing Pagan solstice celebrations which took place during the waning days of December.

Posted by: fast freddy | Jan 1 2016 0:16 utc | 91

Syria Rebel Leaders Assassination a Major Blow To Us Agenda:

Posted by: dChristine | Jan 1 2016 0:16 utc | 92

Wrong! Chalabi was no muslim. He was a zioKahn darling. I hear muslims don't believe in usury but zioKahns impose usury on just about all cattle.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 1 2016 7:23 utc | 93

Warning to "Sun Tzu" aka "Berean"

Stop the sockpuppetry or I will ban you.


Posted by: b | Jan 1 2016 13:35 utc | 94

Question to b? Is your warning to me because of my denunciation of Chalabi as a zioKahn? Wasn't Chalabi convicted in absentia for bank fraud? How was he both a (shiite) muslim, who are not given to usury, and a banker led by Bremer a zioKahn? Same with Mohammad Atta who as a good muslim fanatic, was given to party with prostitutes and drunk alcohol.

Posted by: Sun Tzu (aka Berean) | Jan 1 2016 14:01 utc | 95

angry arab on roth and hrw - "SO now we know: HRW does relay on the figures of the Qatari and EU-supported Syrian Observatory. This is like HRW relying on the figures of Syrian regime about civilian casualties of US bombing in Syria and Iraq. By the way, did you take a look at the report of Syrian Observatory on this?

Kenneth Roth (@KenRoth)
12/30/15, 11:04 AM
Russia bombers reportedly killed 792 Syrian civilians (180 kids). All terrorists, of course."

Posted by: james | Jan 1 2016 18:12 utc | 96

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