Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 07, 2015

WaPo Peddles Crackpot Idea - Fears Russia Will Steal It

The Washington post editors peddle the crackpot idea that the CIA smuggled a bomb on board of the Russian airline that went down over the Sinai peninsula. Or something like that. No one else, as far as I can tell, has offered such an idiotic conspiracy theory.

So far there is not even a shred of real evidence that a bomb took down the plane. All we know is that the black boxes on board of the plane suddenly stopped recording. This points to a sudden rupture and decompression of the plane after which it disintegrated and fell down. The cause of such ruptures can be manifold. Metal fatigue or faulty repairs are a frequent cause (see Japan Airlines Flight 123). As the plane's tail separated from the main cell a tail strike the plane suffered years ago might be relevant. A turbine blade may have cracked and hit the nacelle at a critical point (see Delta Air Lines Flight 1288). A Lithium ion rechargeable battery pack in some luggage in the rear luggage hold may have exploded (see UPS Airlines Flight 6).

The Islamic State claimed it had something to do with the downing of the plane but that announcement was unusual as it contained zero evidence. Other Islamic State attacks were announced with video or other evidence of its misdeeds. Here the Islamic State might just piggyback on a mere technical accident.

Maybe some farting goats on board released methane which exploded? Maybe. But there is no evidence that there were goats, or a bomb, on board of the flight.

Non the less, the Washington Post editors suggest that, maybe, the CIA took down the plane and that, maybe, Russian or Egyptian peoples might be told such:

[W]e won’t be surprised if Russians and Egyptians are told the CIA is somehow responsible for the tragedy in the Sinai.

How come the editors "won't be surprised"? I "won't be surprised" if Russians and Egyptians are told that one plus one is two because I know that one plus one is two. So when the editors "won't be surprised" do they know something about CIA involvement that we do not know?

The editors suggest that the governments of Egypt and Russia might lie about the incident:

The Egyptian and Russian regimes are far less adept at fighting terrorism than they are at lying.

This from the media of the country that peddled the falsehood of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and wages a "war of terror" which increased the membership of al-Qaeda from some low hundreds in 2001 to a hundred thousand in 2015.

There is little chance for Russia or Egypt to lie about the incident. The investigation of the plane wreckage and circumstances will be done by several countries and technicians from Airbus will be involved:

Under international aviation rules, representatives from France, Ireland, Russia and Germany are included in the official committee investigating the crash because of various connections to the plane or the flight.

So how would Russia or Egypt lie about it? The WaPo editors accuse both countries of some nefarious mindset:

While Mr. Putin suspended Russian flights on Friday, his spokesman was still insisting there was no reason to conclude that there had been an act of terrorism. When not issuing his own denials, Egypt’s transport minister was obstructing the British evacuation effort, reducing the number of London flights from 29 to eight.

But the Putin spokesman is right - there is no reason to conclude that this was terrorism because there is no evidence to support such a conclusion. And the "obstruction" by the Egyptian transport minister was a well founded decision after the British government said the British passengers flying home could only take carry-on luggage:

“The British airlines opt to fly without the hold baggage of the British passengers,” Hossam Kamal, the minister of civil aviation, said in the statement.

“The airport will not accommodate more than 120 tons of left-behind luggage,” he added. “This big volume affects the smooth operation of the rest of the domestic and international flights.” The burden of the British baggage, he suggested, had caused the airport to reduce the number of British departures to eight instead of the 19 flights previously scheduled, thus prolonging the plight of the stranded vacationers.

There is no doubt that the neoconservative Washington Post editors hate the Russian and the Egyptian governments. But that is hardly a good reason to wrongly accuse those governments of falsehoods or for suggestions that the CIA may have taken down the Russian plane.

Posted by b on November 7, 2015 at 13:09 UTC | Permalink


Sure gets tiresome, fighting through all this "mis-direction". Seen the same in comments here last week.

PBS broadcasts a BBC segment here everyday: yesterday, good part of it was devoted to UK statement that "intelligence" picked up "noise" suggesting IS was planning something (???). Then very serious sounding "expert" guests, guessing what all that was about, but -0- publication of any of this "noise".

AFAIC, this is same nonsense that got us into Iraq in the first place: innuendo.

Only "suggestion" I've seen from evidence that it could have been on board explosive device, is couple photos of the fuselage showing relatively small hole "punched out". But was you say, this could have been caused by "accidental" events from cargo.

Wish more people would calm down, let investigators do their work. And wish US/UK mouthpieces would just shut up and support integrity of those investigators.

Posted by: jdmckay | Nov 7 2015 13:30 utc | 1

If it was shoddy repair work, it makes Russian airlines look bad. If it was a bomb, it makes Egyptian tourism look bad.

Time to weigh the options and produce the corresponding cover story...

Posted by: ralphieboy | Nov 7 2015 13:45 utc | 2

Sorry b, I think you've misinterpreted sarcasm for accusation. I agree on your analysis on the other possible causes though and that we should wait.

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Nov 7 2015 13:57 utc | 3

It could also point to a technical deficiency in the Airbus that is the European competitor to Boeing. The USA would rejoice if such is the case as it could give a blow to Airbus.
Therefore the Europeans certainly prefer that it is a bomb.

Posted by: virgile | Nov 7 2015 14:19 utc | 4

b, ' Maybe some farting goats on board released methane which exploded? Maybe. But there is no evidence that there were goats, or a bomb, on board of the flight. '

Right on. Goats and bomb equally likely. I share your suspicions of the motives of the Bezos/Amazon/CIA Post.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 7 2015 14:29 utc | 5


> Therefore the Europeans certainly prefer that it is a bomb.

I doubt that.

@ 2

> If it was shoddy repair work, it makes Russian airlines look bad.

Airbus engineers supervise and guide repairs such as that tail section damage.

> If it was a bomb, it makes Egyptian tourism look bad.

Only to confused people: it makes IS/AQ look VERY bad. And, pretty sure by now enough people know... with all the locations IS has a presence, if it was a bomb it is in much of the world's interest to get this right.

AFAIC, all this attention speculating on the Airbus crash just diverts attention for progress being made in Syria.

Posted by: jdmckay | Nov 7 2015 15:01 utc | 6

The liars at WaPost confirm yet again that they're liars.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 7 2015 15:22 utc | 7

WaPo offers a garbled crazy stew. It is curious though that they would suggest that the CIA took it down - I alluded to such a rumor saying that if ISIS did it maybe then one blames the US, in a previous post, humorously, even mentioning CIA so they are not the first ;) As if the CIA was an ‘independent’ org, nothing to do with the USA…

Perhaps they are trying to predict and preempt conspiratorial rumors? Or sneakily trying to claim credit for murdering Russian tourists? There is no point in wondering really, the whole MSM has gone postal, lost the plot (even whatever they imagine the plot to be.)

The Brits are obviously not worried. This (Sat 7 nov.) aft’s intl arrivals at Sharm el-Sheikh come from Jeddah (2x), Riyad, Kuwait. London (5x!), Manchester (2x), Birmingham, and Milano.

As for departures: to Jeddah, Riyad, Cairo (2x), to London (5x), Manchester, Milano. Plus to Moscow (2x), carrier: listed as ORENAIR.

-> site obviously only shows movements in real time.

b. yes we need to wait and see.

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 7 2015 15:22 utc | 8

You misread it. They are implying that U.S. and U.K. intel seem rather sure that it was a bomb, and they are predicting that Russia will blame the CIA, b/c they are liars. In no way were they personally suggesting that the CIA did it. Never that.

Posted by: CathexesInc | Nov 7 2015 15:31 utc | 9

...well, at least I'm probably not the first paranoid idiot to have read this blog. I understand that we do not want to fall prey to US/UK misdirection, but do feel that blowing up a civilian plane would not be beyond the secret services of these particular countries. Anything seems possible in the current climate..

Peter Lee- who is a pretty sober sort analyst- has insisted on airing the possibility that the GCC countries may have organized things (which is of course a long way removed from saying the CIA or MI6 did it).

Posted by: bassalt | Nov 7 2015 15:36 utc | 10

b, speaking of possibilities, why don't we include the possibility that the Israelis hijacked the plane remotely? I think the bomb stories are patently a public cover story.

For those pursuing the bomb angle, (I'm NOT saying that bomb residue won't be found, just that it was not the cause), just look at the flight data. Important information can be found in this article 'Suspicions about the Russian Plane Crash' at Scroll down on front page to access article.

HOW DOES A BOMB MAKE A PLANE FLY LIKE THAT?? (Radical up and down maneuvers)

Why in the first reports (not appearing in American news sources) was it reported that the pilot complained about a 'problem with the wireless devices' and asked for an EMERGENCY LANDING? But not report a MAYDAY?!

This is not the first time planes have been lost with seemingly similar flight characteristics. Who had an interest in those other anomalies? Who has the capability to pull off something like this?

If the Israelis did bring the plane down, there would be major reasons for Russia to deny it. Putin would be caught in a couple of traps. The home domestic political situation would become more divisive. Obviously this would be another instance of potentially drawing Russia further into a raging Middle East situation.

This would also give the US a chance to refocus its policy and dive into greater involvement in the fight against ISIS.

Does anyone believe that Israel wouldn't enjoy sticking it to Putin and Russia, especially if it furthers the goals of the phony war on terror? And they wouldn't be blamed in the media? From their standpoint, it would look like a 'win-win'.

Posted by: kafkananda | Nov 7 2015 15:45 utc | 11

@CathexesInc #9:

they are predicting that Russia will blame the CIA

This reminds me of the Kiev coup. The US was disappointed that Russia did not invade Ukraine in response. In the same way, the US and Britain were hoping that Russia would respond to the MJ9268 disaster by instantly shouting terrorism!, and suggesting that Western intelligence services might have been involved to boot. Instead, Russia says that one should not draw conclusions before investigations have collected information on the basis of which one can draw possible inferences on what may have caused this tragic event.

This infuriates anglo governments and Western media to no end. Thus they are acting out the hysterical responses that they were hoping Russia would be provoked into.

@Noirette #8:

the whole MSM has gone postal, lost the plot

It is like something out of Star Trek. Putin is Captain Kirk, and the Western media are an evil computer or space probe or android run amok. Putin uses logic on the computer: You said that Islamic terrorism is the main threat facing the threat. We are now doing a better job of killing the terrorists than you ever did. Your response is rage at our killing jihadi terrorists. What is the only logical conclusion, Nomad? You are the terrorist.

Thus, the Post gives the plot away, by bringing the possibility that the CIA was involved in the downing of MJ9268 into the Western mainstream, before the RF even suggested that it was considering such a scenario.

Posted by: Demian | Nov 7 2015 16:01 utc | 12

As reported by The Times Of Israel, in their headline, Blue Skies: Israeli, American, Greek, and Polish air personnel square off against a fictional enemy state in two-week drill (Oct. 30, 2015):

Air forces from around the world have gathered deep in the Arava desert in the south of Israel for the past week and a half to take part in the largest aerial exercise in the history of the Israeli Air Force.

The “Blue Flag” exercise, which is continuing through November 3, pits the Israeli Air Force, the United States Air Force, Greece’s Hellenic Air Force and the Polish Air Force against a fictional enemy state, the captain in charge of all IAF exercises told The Times of Israel Thursday night.
[Maps show locations of flight & of war games. But are war games conducted w live ammo?]

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 7 2015 16:24 utc | 13 CAIRO, November 3. /TASS/. Experts working at the scene of the Saturday Sinai crash have found elements that are not components of the crashed A321 airliner, informed sources in Cairo have told TASS.
"They have been sent for an expertise," one of the sources said. "It could be equipment transported by passengers, for example diving equipment," another source said, adding that specialists were working on identification. TASS has no official confirmation of this information at the moment.

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 7 2015 16:25 utc | 14

maybe wow works for wapo?

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2015 16:41 utc | 15

As CathexesInc above stated, you've misread the article and the WAPO isn't peddling any theory that the CIA put a bomb on the plane or that the Russians have said we did.

The article posits that the Russian government through it's media MIGHT tell Russians (the people) and Egyptians that the CIA did it because of course they lie, but we don't, except when we do.

Posted by: FIHCY | Nov 7 2015 16:55 utc | 16

It is clear in the last paragraph that Wash. Post editors are claiming that since Egypt and Russia are liars, expect to be told that the CIA did the bombing.

The US/UK (and more recently the French) say with near certainty that the plane was bombed, based presumably on evidence to support the claim. Has this evidence been turned over to Russia/Egypt? Why not?

Whatever the case, watchers such as those here are left with speculation alone as to what is going on. Perhaps US/UK/France need to provide he evidence (why wouldn't they?).

I, for one, can't help but speculate that the US/UK wish to tie this tragedy to a more profound strategy: use it to help propel forward an even more secretive wish that Russia be draw into a prolonged war, Afghan style. This ties in well with the arming of "moderates" including with providing TOWs as well as landing US "advisors", presumably to provoke greater Russian involvement.

Syria is nothing less than a stage for multiple conflicts between multiple countries with the New Cold War thrown in. In the meantime, 100,000's, even millions of people suffer while the glorious power elite play their game of chessboard. Beyond pathetic. Criminal.

Posted by: graydog | Nov 7 2015 16:59 utc | 17

Sharm al Sheikh is 15 km by boat from the Saudi coast. Having said that, the number of crazy Caucasians with Russian passports is huge.

Posted by: Mina | Nov 7 2015 17:09 utc | 18

Japan Airlines Flight 123 spent over thirty minutes in flight after the structural loss and is in no way comparable to what we have here.

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 7 2015 17:27 utc | 19

hmm. There was a TV program where a couple students[?] hijacked a car's internal controls through wifi.

Surely the creators of Stuxnet could figure a way into the controls of a plane. No Israeli planes have been shot down, and surely they would be a target of ISIS, right?

The timing is way beyond suspect. IF now commercial travel has become "fair game", not many countries will want to acknowledge that. Going to suck for tourism and global trade. Flight 370 might just have been a trial run. I still think we did not get the straight facts there.

We can speculate here, right? And the WaPo article, blaming ISIS, I say it's the people behind ISIS.

Posted by: shadyl | Nov 7 2015 17:34 utc | 20

re 16.

The US/UK (and more recently the French) say with near certainty that the plane was bombed, based presumably on evidence to support the claim.
They have a track-record for not having the evidence to support their claim.

But also, as b says, if you read the French reports carefully, they don't actually say there's the sound of an explosion, rather something unusual in the last second. The conclusion that there was an explosion, and a bomb, is the journalists' deduction.

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 7 2015 17:40 utc | 21

If it was a bomb on-board, I don't see how one can't blame a state actor in this. The "anti-ISIS" coalition is over 60 countries, with the US being the lead country.

ISIS makes a convenient and willing fall guy for their benefactors. What remains to be seen is how Russia reacts if it was a bomb. I have no doubt they will take the ISIS claim at face value, at least publicly. That doesn't mean, however, that Putin & co. won't find a way to 'get their pound of flesh'.

Don't you just love a good game of charades?

Posted by: woogs | Nov 7 2015 17:40 utc | 22

It is deeply unsettling (especially for the wealthy, traveling classes) when a commercial airliner crashes due to causes that are inadequately explained and may not be fixable. Such an event sends a cold chill through society and undermines political support for whomever is responsible for ensuring public safety.

Am I the only one who suspects such motives were at work in the crash of the Germanwings airliner? Or Malaysia Flight 370? And now in the crash of the Russian flight over the Sinai?

Posted by: Laker | Nov 7 2015 17:49 utc | 23


Check out the article I pointed to @11. You are not alone!

Posted by: kafkananda | Nov 7 2015 17:54 utc | 24

How was it in the black boxes can stop working after decompression or even after a explosion ? Aren't they meant to still be operating after such dramatic causes ?
Might be a smaller issue but that should be looked into as well as a criticism.

Posted by: tom | Nov 7 2015 18:06 utc | 25

The WaPo editorial states, "Both rulers have sold themselves as warriors courageously taking on the Islamic State and its affiliates". So I think it's worthwhile to consider an excellent recent post about ISIS, especially given that it's likely that no reliable information will be released about MJ9268 for weeks.

The idiotic media version of ISIS: are we losing our critical thinking?

In terms of its physical presence on the ground ISIS is all but indistinguishable from al Qaeda, al Nusra, the Mujahideen and all the rest of the western-backed terror networks/proxy armies currently in place in the Middle East and other areas of strategic sensitivity. What sets ISIS apart is not hard fact, but the gigantic PR machine that pushes its name, its declarations, its agenda in the world media. …

It looks like this franchise could run and run. Baghdadi is Goldstein on speed! Oceania will be at war with these tricky dickies until the end of time. Watch out for future blockbusters such as ISIS’ first satellite launch, ISIS goes to the Moon, ISIS takes over Disneyland and murders Mickey Mouse. On video. With a complementary Android app and total media meltdown.

Posted by: Demian | Nov 7 2015 18:07 utc | 26

The Washington post has invented pre-emptive propaganda.

1) British Jihadis in jet bomb link

Rupert Murdoch's Sun seems to be the only one to have noticed this.

2)Britain's interest in Egypt

But it is not only Egypt’s economic dependency on the West that will be deepened by the crash – Britain, in particular, appears to be using the crash as leverage to re-insinuate itself into Egypt’s military and security apparatus. Firstly, British officials have been taking every opportunity to humiliate Egypt, trying to convince the world that Egypt is perilously unstable, and that only by outsourcing security to the West can it be safe again. When Sisi arrived in the country this week, noted the Times, “Britain openly contradicted the Egyptian leader and suggested that he was not in full control of the Sinai peninsula,” whilst an Egyptian official “commented that the dispatch of six officials to check the security arrangements at Sharm el-Sheikh airport was ‘like treating us as children.’”

Posted by: somebody | Nov 7 2015 18:59 utc | 27

Believe it or not US Intelligence is reporting intercepting chatter before the crash, between al-Raqqa and Sinai, that announced a coming event and then after the crash celebrating the event.

The propaganda and spin from the MSM may be entertaining but both Russia and Egypt may be facing the costs of Putin's playing with fire in the ME and the possible fact that they were quickly burned for his actions in Syria.

The small Islamic State Sinai Provence may have scored a dual victory by instilling fear into any Russian flying to foreign lands and doing major damage to Egypt's tourism industry.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Nov 7 2015 19:16 utc | 28

somebody from your last link:

So, if the plane was indeed brought down by an ISIS-in-Sinai bomb, either the group have suddenly been blessed with some amazing new technology, or they have suddenly decided to change tactics to mass killings of civilians. If the latter, isn’t it a little odd that, after more than a year of Western airstrikes apparently targeting them, ISIS have failed to launch such an attack against Western civilians – yet are able to respond within weeks to a campaign of Russian airstrikes which, according to the West, are not even aimed at them?

Posted by: okie farmer | Nov 7 2015 19:17 utc | 29

Happens all the time taking an adventurous destination for yr holidays ...

Sharm el-Sheikh flight from Stansted dodged missile on August 23rd | The Guardian |

Of course the incident was kept secret, Britons would have signed on for more such trips ... fare price all-inclusive. ;-)

Posted by: Oui | Nov 7 2015 19:21 utc | 30

Je Suis Charlie ... Non!

The cartoon appears on the magazine's back page and shows parts of a plane and a passenger falling from the sky onto a bearded, armed militant.

The commentary reads: "Islamic State: Russian aviation intensifies its bombardments." Russians have been conducting airstrikes in Syria since end of September.

Lawmakers at the Russian State Duma voiced their outrage as well, calling on the government to blacklist the French publication as extremist literature and insisting that the French authorities react and apologize.

"The Charlie Hebdo journalists danced on the memory of people who died in that terrible air crash. These caricatures will deliver a hard blow at the image of France and Europe where such things are possible," said Vyacheslav Nikonov, the head of the Russian State Duma Committee for Education.

Russian users of social media were no less forgiving. One said Russian journalists seen in a photo wearing the now-iconic "Je Suis Charlie" shirts in the wake of the shooting were committing "treason." Another said to the cartoonists, "Burn in hell."

Russians outraged after Charlie Hebdo cartoons ‘ridicule’ Sinai plane crash | RT |

Posted by: Oui | Nov 7 2015 19:22 utc | 31

@Wow joining the IS celebration? Maniacal

Posted by: Oui | Nov 7 2015 19:25 utc | 32

Kremlin slams Charlie Hebdo cartoons on Russian air crash | France24 |

French weekly satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo was slammed by the Kremlin Friday for publishing cartoons linking last week's crash of a Russian airliner with Moscow’s air campaign in Syria.

Peskov said the cartoons – one showing falling debris from the plane with the caption “Daesh [Islamic State group]: Russia aviation intensifies its bombardments” – were “unacceptable”.

The second cartoon features a skull wearing a broken pair of sunglasses, with a speech bubble saying: “I should have taken Air Cocaine”, a reference to the scandal involving two French pilots who allegedly smuggled suitcases filled with cocaine out of the Dominican Republic.

Yuri Barmin
Allegedly these are new #CharlieHebdo
cartoons mocking a tragedy as a result
of which 224 people died.

Posted by: Oui | Nov 7 2015 19:40 utc | 33

I don't read the WaPost much, but that 'The Post's View' editorial reads like it was written by a 15-year-old whose world view is essentially video war games plus Tom Clancy novels.

The U.S. will definitely lose the long game if its 'foreign policy establishment' continues to be manned by people like whoever wrote that editorial.

Posted by: fairleft | Nov 7 2015 19:44 utc | 34

I think b’s “WaPo Peddles Crackpot Idea” article is crap. The idea that there is not “. . . even a shred of real evidence that a bomb took down the plane.” is false. The characteristics of this incident strongly point in the direction of a device on the plane causing structural failure.

In any case, I would give it 95% odds that the cause of this crash has been firmly determined by now. Once you know what caused the crash, you tend to hold this information back. The Russians tend to take this one step further by sometimes just never coming out. For example the Paris Air Show and their Concord type plane, and that Russian submarine Kursk (K-141). The Russians work out some sort of back-room deal that helps them on other issues and does so without getting their population upset.

You guys need to remember that truth is a touchy issue. If Putin says the USA did it, then 143 million Russian will demand revenge. It could make things uncomfortable for all of us on this planet.

In any case, there is a big difference in knowing what happened to the aircraft and knowing who did it. I contend that Russia knows what happened. I have no idea if they know who did it.

About Japan Airlines Flight 123, Boeing caused the crash with a bad repair job and took 100% responsibility. The pilot had almost no control of the aircraft, just engines. Boeing does not like to repeat mistakes. That is one reason air travel is so safe. So do not count on Boeing causing another crash with a bad repair.

Posted by: Peter B | Nov 7 2015 19:45 utc | 35

... I know it is an Airbus, both Boeing and Airbus learn from each other. This applies to the Airbus A321 repair as well.

Posted by: Peter B | Nov 7 2015 19:55 utc | 36

@somebody - #26

Did you miss this article which explains a lot ..

UAE told UK: crack down on Muslim Brotherhood or lose arms deals

See also my previous comment on another thread – here.

Posted by: Oui | Nov 7 2015 19:56 utc | 37

Peter B @ 34

Did you see the article mentioned @ 11? Here is the pertinent chart from information from flightradar24........


Until we have any, let alone a reasonable, explanation for the actual path the plane took, I think it is very cautious and reasonable to not jump on the "bomb" media story.

Posted by: kafkananda | Nov 7 2015 20:32 utc | 38

By WP did you mean Washington Povda, what did you expect Fred wants the Russians to blame it on Putin, he is telling them Putin bombing CIA trained terrorists in Syria is not making them safer it's actually making them more subject to retaliation by proxies of Fred' busses in CIA, at the end of the day he might be right. Who knows that is possible, Americans will never refuse a good day time murder, if you can bomb weddings you may as well bomb civilian airliners , Fred H. knows his stuff.

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 7 2015 20:41 utc | 39

Oh, sorry missed one please add bombing Hospitals in nice remote small towns to the list of weeding and airliners, including Iran Air flight 655 in 1988.

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 7 2015 20:45 utc | 40

13;I really can't see the Israelis as perps here,there must have been Russian Jews on board,and Russia aint one to screw with,if there is or are perps,but Penelope's account of war games (OMG-US,in for a penny in for a pound)with Polish involvement reminds me that many Poles blame Russia for that Polish Pres. air crash.But no sign of air to air here,unless cover-up so?
And Star Trek;Awesome campy show,best on TV until Next Gen,a much more serious show,and the best ever,until they started to go soap opera.And remember it was killed right around the beginning of the War of Terror,near the height of popularity.
And its best analogy to today is the Borg,of Zion

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 7 2015 21:07 utc | 41

And yes,those Persian Gulf midgets on steroids might just fit the bill here,if indeed it was a bomb.
And I've just read that the Russians have stopped flights also.Graun?Indy?

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 7 2015 21:12 utc | 42

36;Yes,i saw that also.I wonder what the look was on the British establishment's faces given this order from the "United Arab Emirates",The nerve!
Boy,how the mighty have fallen,but alas not far enough,the idiots.

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 7 2015 21:20 utc | 43

Kafkananda @ 37:

I've read somewhere - it was actually a comment made in a comments forum attached to a blog that (damn!) I've forgotten - that the up-down flight of the Airbus A321 (which you see in the graph) is typical of planes trying to maintain altitude after their tail sections are damaged during flight.

That plane had its tail section repaired by technicians at the Airbus Toulouse facility in 2001 after landing heavily in Cairo in 2001.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 7 2015 21:30 utc | 44

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 7, 2015 4:07:53 PM | 40

It would have to be cyberwar. Strange things happened during NATO exercises before.

Posted by: somebody | Nov 7 2015 21:41 utc | 45

If the WaPoo editors are a fair sample of the American Bourgeois and their a$$hole lickers (and they definitely are) we can safely predict they are (finally) a species on the way down and out. Good riddance. Cant happen soon enough. Their "award winning" "journalism" now reads like a Roger Ailes internal FOX memo, or a Turkish govt. press release, one written by Erdogan himself, after getting really stinking on Ouzo

Posted by: psakiwacky | Nov 7 2015 21:46 utc | 46

@27@ way-out west

"The small Islamic State Sinai Provence may have scored a dual victory by instilling fear into any Russian flying to foreign lands and doing major damage to Egypt's tourism industry"

Or not. And what channel are you watching ? Most of us (the world) have been watching Russia putting out the fire in Syria,the one the Americans and their proxies started. Its also been fun to watch the latter and losing their fucking minds over it.

Posted by: psakiwacky | Nov 7 2015 21:55 utc | 47


We are seeing a propaganda effort that is running the merry-go-round at full tilt boogie. Past, present and future are all to be manipulated to Empire ends.

Look at the way the new movie "Truth" is being beaten down. Truth is an adaptation of Mary Mapes’ 2005 memoir “Truth And Duty: The Press, the President, and the Privilege of Power.” The film centers on Dan Rather’s 2004 report on CBS’ “60 Minutes Wednesday”about a series of memos critical of President George W. Bush’s Texas Air National Guard service record that had been discovered in the files of the president’s former commanding officer. The authenticity of those documents was called into question, which led to claims that the memos were forgeries.
Rather and CBS initially defended the story — released during the height of Bush’s re-election campaign — but wound up retracting it 12 days after the initial broadcast. “If I knew then what I know now, I would not have gone ahead with the story as it was aired, and I certainly would not have used the documents in question,” he said.
CBS fired Mapes, who was the story producer, and Rather left CBS News in 2006. In 2007, he sued CBS, Viacom and its top management for making him a “scapegoat” in the story; the suit was dismissed in 2009 by a New York state appeals court.

Truth, the movie, is being victimized just like the real thing these days. And on it goes.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 7 2015 22:02 utc | 48

New York Times

WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. has agreed to help the Russian government with its investigation into the deadly crash of a Russian charter plane in the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt, senior American officials said on Saturday.

Posted by: somebody | Nov 7 2015 22:06 utc | 49

To support Jen @43, a plane flying up and down erraticly would be typical of a plane that had lost its tail. It is also the case that the black boxes are situated in the tail, so it is not too surprising that there is nothing on them.

The question will be why the tail was lost. That can only be detected from detailed study of the remains, in the absence of the West revealing its supposed intelligence information, which seems unlikely.

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 7 2015 22:07 utc | 50

all those pointing to cyber attack:
how would a hacker cause the tail section to come off midflight and land 1.5 miles shy of the fuselage?

Posted by: sillybill | Nov 7 2015 22:11 utc | 51

It's naive, to say the least, not to assume that the CIA did it, directly or otherwise, until that is proven not to be the case.

Posted by: paul | Nov 7 2015 22:20 utc | 52

Jen @ 43 and Laguerre @ 49....

Thanks for that feedback! Needless to say IANAP!

Posted by: kafkananda | Nov 7 2015 22:39 utc | 53

IRT: tom | Nov 7, 2015 1:06:28 PM | 24

tom's point seems quite valid. Unless these "media outlets" are not providing much info at all, these "black boxes" are technological rubbish. In this age of flash memory they certainly should not just stop operating when a plane disintegrates. And they should have acoustic and stress detection inputs that can can record explosive pressures and shock waves. And also document what came apart and when. And there should be about six of them in different locations. After all, they are much simpler than our computers.

If such devices cannot be installed at a "reasonable" price (ha!) then maybe we should forget about the whole security circus and just accept our losses.

Posted by: blues | Nov 8 2015 1:15 utc | 54

jfl@5 I love your characterization of the suspect "newspaper" as the "Bezos/Amazon/CIA Post". "WaPo" doesn't begin to express the sinister nature of that beast. "WaPo" sounds like something you'd order from the Waffle House.

Posted by: Macon Richardsonn | Nov 8 2015 1:40 utc | 55

Posted by: sillybill | Nov 7, 2015 5:11:42 PM | 50

fuel tank explosion ?

I don't think there is any part of a plane that is not regulated by cyber.

Posted by: somebody | Nov 8 2015 4:38 utc | 56

Endless speculation. To tell you the truth I'm more concerned about the possibility of the Turkish Army invading Syria.

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 8 2015 5:26 utc | 57

The WaPo article is nothing more than a feckless drive-by smearing. It's an extension of the ongoing anti-Russia smear campaign augmented with an anti-Egypt smear. Apart from casting Russia & Egypt as Luddites and dictatorial, primitive regimes, it re-asserts the US-UK opinion that the crash was the result of a luggage bomb and pre-empts any different conclusion which may come from the official investigation.

If one reads it carefully, as some of the commenters above have done, it's a desperate and puerile effort. Very WaPo.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 8 2015 5:37 utc | 58

A Modest Theoretical Proposal
author: geral e-mail:e-mail:
...and where are all the geniuses who could offer suggestions on how to improve the human condition!
A Modest Theoretical Proposal To End Gross Abuses Of Human Beings :

Remove all governments from power, educate the masses regarding their rights and responsibilities, and allow all the world's people to govern themselves in a manner consistent with universally recognized human and civil rights.

Inescapable violence always emanates from government against the people . Today, the murderous attacks and incessant threats reflect rule by a global coalition of bellicose regimes bent on world inhumane domination:

Some of my studies :

About me (typo in the following data: my name has always been spelled 'Geral'):

homepage: homepage: http://
phone: phone: na
address: address: usa

contribute to this article


Good For You Geral 07.Nov.2015 22:58
blues link

This is bigger than anyone knows.

Think about it.

Why persecute virtually innocent individuals?

Maybe because they are vetting an army of 10,000 psychopaths to carry out things like 9/11?

They wouldn't stoop to that, would they?

Posted by: blues | Nov 8 2015 7:03 utc | 59


Thanks. Looked at the graph at your link. For some reason the altitude does not reflect the vertical rate of climb or decent. I am not sure why it does not? In other words the data is not consistent with itself. If your rate of climb is high then your altitude will always go up and same for decent. Also your airplane speed is ground speed and not air speed. So you could be going down at 1000 km/hour air speed but only have 50 km/hour ground speed. In other words I am confused about that chart – I do not see good data.

With structural airframe failure you can expect all sorts of odd movements because of the asymmetric aircraft. Like if one wing were to detach.

Also, another post talked about power failure of the flight recorder. Yes, the flight recorder stops recording when you no longer have an airplane. Otherwise there are multiple power systems that will keep the thing going.

Sure at this point, you cannot rule anything out. I just looked at the information that they gave out and came up with a safe bet conclusion. I would give myself 80% chance of being correct. But we live in an ultra-high-tech world now and who am I to say what is possible and what is not.

But sometimes simple bits of information are all you need to make an accurate assessment. On the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster on February 1, 2003, the live news feed said touch down in 15 minutes, yet 30 minutes later the news team were still thinking it might land. I told my wife that thing is gone – it was just simple math.

Posted by: Peter B | Nov 8 2015 8:12 utc | 60

WRT: Peter B | Nov 8, 2015 3:12:03 AM | 59

I was in the electronics biz for decades. Truly, it makes no sense for "black box" recorders to stop working when all power to the rest of the plane is cut. It has batteries. And flash or "old fashioned CMOS" solid state memory should keep on working when all other power fails. In fact it should go into "high gear" within one millisecond of the detection of any serious anomaly.

And there should be a half dozen or more of them attached to strain gauges and numerous other sensors. As it is, they seem almost useless.

Posted by: blues | Nov 8 2015 9:47 utc | 61

Given the way the western media and politicians have leaped to exploit the alleged "bomb", should it turn out to indeed be a bomb, I don't see why the idea agents of the west might be responsible is "crackpot." In fact you could see the WaPo article as an attempt to defuse the allegation before it's made which itself implies knowledge of guilt.

Posted by: proceptic | Nov 8 2015 11:01 utc | 62

@59 pb `For some reason the altitude does not reflect the vertical rate of climb or decent. I am not sure why it does not?`

That confused me as well ... I think its due to the horizontal axis only covers 04:12.00 to 04:13:26 less than a minute and a half, and of that minute and a half about one minute is stable flight. There are great changes in verticle feet/minute ... over the course of just a second or two ... which accounts for the big grey ups and downs translating into little blue ones representing altitude. There is no obvious relation between orange ground speed and the other two lines. The wild, alternating gray velocity up and down, over the course of 34 seconds, makes me think of a balloon let go and flying every which way it can. The tace ends with the airplane still above 25000 feet. This trace came from the 'blackbox' in the tail? which supposedly stopped working when the tail separated from the rest of the aircraft?

All I feel is sympathy for the poor souls aboard that aircraft. And now for their families.

Isn't war fun? The Nobel Peace Prize Laureate just can't seem to get his fill of it.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 8 2015 11:04 utc | 63

Wingnuts are sufficiently convinced:

that ISIS bmobed the plane; Russia is not bmobing ISIS, Russia is selectively bmobing only the good terrorists; Obama (secret Muslim helping to usher in Sharia Law) will not "leave quietly".

These are the key points which I gleaned from a politically-informed customer yesterday. Perhaps half of the US Citizenry believes such shite.

Posted by: fast freddy | Nov 8 2015 13:34 utc | 65

Now Russia is withdrawing all its nationals from Egypt and suspending flights: they have obviously decided to go with the bomb story.

I feel sorry for the (mostly young) people who work in the tourism industry in Egypt, it has been languishing for years now, and this is only going to hurt it worse.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Nov 8 2015 14:25 utc | 66

It is getting bad British Daily Telegraph

• US agencies picked up intelligence in the days before the disaster suggesting a 'big event' was planned for Sinai

• After the plane crashed, US spies intercepted boastful exchanges between the same jihadis celebrating the tragedy

• Egypt accused other countries, thought to be the UK and US, of failing to share its intelligence on teh crash

Why are they spilling this to the media?

Posted by: somebody | Nov 8 2015 14:58 utc | 67

"Why are they spilling this to the media?"
Posted by: somebody | Nov 8, 2015 9:58:12 AM | 66

If you include the omitted key word then the question answers itself...
"Why are they spilling this to the lying media?"

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 8 2015 16:38 utc | 68

One point;Wapo might hate the Russians,but they've treated the dictatorship in Egypt with kid gloves ever since the coup that brought Sisi to power,although they might be softening that with the latest Russian Egyptian weaponry deal.
Egypt is Israels pet dog,Wapo is one of their American assets.

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 8 2015 16:40 utc | 69

I'm afraid a bomb is the most likely explanation and the most likely culprit is a western intelligence agency working through the cover of "ISIS." Yes, they are that evil. By stopping flights to Egypt, Russia is taking precautions against more than "lax security." Even strong security will not prevent a determined CIA/MI6/Mossad.

The 2 points to remember is that world domination is worth a lot and the US/NATO will do absolutely anything to get it. They will not give up until they lose. The other is that as US control weakens, second tier former colonial powers (England and France especially) will try to reprise their earlier glories.

Posted by: Lysander | Nov 8 2015 17:00 utc | 70

This article deals with a possible scenario to this and some recently mysterious airplane

" The fact that the pilot’s last communication, from 30,000 feet, reported a malfunction in the airplane’s wireless devices and that he asked for an emergency landing indicates that the airplane may have been in the process of being hacked externally through its satellite wireless connection. It is interesting to note that the report of the “malfunction in the wireless devices” has not been published in a single U.S. newspaper or media outlet. "

Posted by: curious | Nov 8 2015 17:17 utc | 71

@68 dahoit.. i see it that way too.

@69 lysander.. ditto your comments as well. it is hard for me to reset to something other then extreme cynicism.

as i said previously - we're now in the endless speculation zone as we were with mh17, and mh370..

Posted by: james | Nov 8 2015 17:28 utc | 72

Peter B: In any case, I would give it 95% odds that the cause of this crash has been firmly determined by now.

Yesss...particularly if it it was a bomb (imho), which seems more and more likely ??, certainly they know already. It would also explain the speedy ‘outing’ of ‘bomb’, as an expert eye on the ground would identify that (with high certainty) and the wires would hum. Then, some simple analyses would show the presence of explosive material easily.

Putin, however, will never blame al-CIA-duh and co. in public, imho. If true, it would be difficult to determine for sure, never mind prove, and of course impossible to present in a court. That is not the kind of escalation Putin would indulge in, he would act in other ways (see Peter.) So maybe the mixed up article is just fixing the consensus that will be settled on: bomb by Daesh, and a bunch of ppl at Sharm airport will lose their living, some extra culprits or scapegoats will be added to the mix (by Egypt.) After all, ISIS is everyone’s *official* enemy.

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 8 2015 17:55 utc | 73

Whatever the cause of this crash the psychological damage has been done, Putin appears incompetent unable to even protect his fat tourist class from attack outside the country or supply them with safe aircraft if it wasn't a bombing.

Al-Sisi looks even more stupid than usual, unable or unwilling to protect the badly needed Egyptian tourist industry with basic security at obvious target sites.

If the IS is behind this crash the blowback from the Russian/Syrian war has rebounded on Russia much more rapidly than expected.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Nov 8 2015 19:58 utc | 74

Even if there is very little evidence yet available showing that there was a bomb stowed on board the plane it seems most likely at this point that will turn out to be the case. The real evidence, chemical and physical analysis of the wreckage is not yet available.

Whatever the final results, Western intelligence behavior is utterly despicable. They are leaking information to the press but do not seem to sharing details with either the Egyptians or Russians. CNN currently has an article up on this. They include this little nugget in their article:

But if some of the intelligence is Israeli in origin, it could be an impediment to intelligence sharing over the crash.

This does sound like a big hint that these leaks involve the Israelis one way or another. Leaks from intelligence agencies has been a time-honored method for spreading disinformation and Israel is probably the worst in this practice.

Posted by: ToivoS | Nov 8 2015 20:08 utc | 75

ToivoS #75:

Western intelligence behavior is utterly despicable. They are leaking information to the press but do not seem to sharing details with either the Egyptians or Russians.

I can only imagine how Russians feel about this. I'm not even a Russian citizen, and yet I feel deeply hurt. Britain is not only openly treating Russia as if it is an actual enemy in a war, but actually seems to be going out of its way to show that it has nothing but contempt for the lives of innocent Russian civilians.

Of course, we knew that that's how the people running Britain feel about Russians from the UK response to the Ukrainial civil war and the atrocities committed by the Kiev regime, but here it is Russian citizens we are talking about who were killed (in what was a terrorist act, according to the UK).

Posted by: Demian | Nov 8 2015 21:02 utc | 76

@75 Toivos

CNN is saying Mossad set the bomb, that's the part they'd like to keep secret?

Posted by: jfl | Nov 8 2015 21:02 utc | 77

The core problem: Spy tools and cyber-weapons rely on vulnerabilities in existing software programs, and these hacks would be much less useful to the government if the flaws were exposed through public warnings. So the more the government spends on offensive techniques, the greater its interest in making sure that security holes in widely used software remain unrepaired.

Moreover, the money going for offense lures some talented researchers away from work on defense, while tax dollars may end up flowing to skilled hackers simultaneously supplying criminal groups. "The only people paying are on the offensive side," said Charlie Miller, a security researcher at Twitter who previously worked for the National Security Agency.

A spokesman for the NSA agreed that the proliferation of hacking tools was a major concern but declined to comment on the agency's own role in purchasing them, citing the "sensitivity" of the topic.

America's offensive cyber-warfare strategy - including even the broad outlines and the total spending levels - is classified information. Officials have never publicly acknowledged engaging in offensive cyber-warfare.

Read more at Reuters

Posted by: okie farmer | Nov 8 2015 21:38 utc | 78

The editors suggest that the governments of Egypt and Russia might lie about the incident:

'The Egyptian and Russian regimes are far less adept at fighting terrorism than they are at lying.'

WAPO chooses to call egypts and russias governments 'regimes'...doesnt say much for their being a 'free press'

Posted by: brian | Nov 8 2015 22:25 utc | 79

@64 in line with US/UK govts and their media must be chortling with glee at 224 dead russians as he hopes this wil cause russians to turn on Putin

thus the western world continues to descend into degeneracy

Posted by: brian | Nov 8 2015 22:27 utc | 80

Posted by: somebody | Nov 8, 2015 9:58:12 AM | 67

youve seen this intelligence? if so why not share it farive seen nothing but empty claims by the media

Posted by: brian | Nov 8 2015 22:29 utc | 81


did the incident take place? i see claims but nothing more to substantiate it

Posted by: brian | Nov 8 2015 22:31 utc | 82

Re: Posted by: brian | Nov 8, 2015 5:25:43 PM | 79

The editors suggest that the governments of Egypt and Russia might lie about the incident:

To be fair, this is part of the trap - obviously part of the trap. Almost certainly the incentive is there for Egypt & Russia to lie about this incident and that leaves them open to later charges of lying and falsifying evidence for their own ends.

That is obviously a part of the trap laid.

Just look at what happened in lieu of the 2004 Madrid train bombings and how lying about the incident destroyed the credibility of the Aznar Government. Egypt & Russia are potentially leaving themselves open to this sort of charge if they make any firm assertions that are actually lies.

Posted by: Julian | Nov 9 2015 0:51 utc | 83


[...] No one else, as far as I can tell, has offered such an idiotic conspiracy theory [...]

I did offer it in the former thread, not as a "conspiracy theory," but as a possibility, with some qualifications.

@okie farmer@10

Sound of explosion heard on Russian plane's black box: French TV

Russians are still not saying anything official about a bomb, at least to my knowledge, the investigation continues. If in fact it was a bomb, that was not IS, that was a CIA/Mossad/MI6 operation, period [...]

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Nov 6, 2015 8:18:46 PM | 29

As I can see by the comments on this post, speculation on the subject continues unabated, with pros and cons about the "bomb" possibility. As I said in the post above, as long as we lack the official report, we are all limited to endless speculation; once the report is out, and if it points out to a bomb, it will be idiotic to exclude the CIA as a potential perp. IF, big IF, it was a bomb, IS will be used as a scapegoat, they don't have the capability, the intel required, or the sophistication for such an operation.

The CIA station in Egypt is one of the largest in Africa, it's been a base for CIA operations in North Africa, the Middle East, the Horn of Africa, and the Lower Nile for years now. CIA/Mossad/MI6 have a close working relationship with Egyptian intelligence that goes back for decades, and those will go unaffected by the new coziness between Russia and Egypt.

On the WaPo article: like rabid dogs, they are foaming Russophobia at the mouth. I have no memory of reading anything so hateful on what passes for MSM ever. It reads like a hate-mongering piece in a right-wing rag published by a radical fringe. Dumping Russia and Egypt on the same bag as "liars" is their way to chastise Egypt for flirting with Russia. The rest of the article is trash, Russia's operation in Syria "quickly bogged down," when the Russian bombing of IS it's been going for 5 weeks only; Western governments worry about "protecting their citizens," while Putin and Sissi are concerned about "defending themselves," and they will automatically, in a knee-jerk reaction, blame the CIA for the bombing.

"The wicked flee when no one is pursuing [...]" Proverbs 28:1. Their pre-emptive innuendo is the WaPo version of Charlie Hebdo cartoons mocking the Russian tragedy.

I sincerely hope b uses some really tall waders and a chemical mask to move through the pile of shit the WaPo has become.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Nov 9 2015 1:00 utc | 84

times of israel is now reporting that the intelligence reports from England and Washington concerning the downed Russian airline were provided by Israel.

Posted by: ToivoS | Nov 9 2015 8:04 utc | 85

Posted by: lowyomiller | Nov 9 2015 9:03 utc | 86

It would be just as naive to imagine it was not the cia as to imagine it was. in the Levant as in politics everything as you is possible and likely,cheers.

Posted by: lowyomiller | Nov 9 2015 9:19 utc | 88

Since UK & POTUS are, rather prematurely, busy spreading disinformation & misdirection, this makes this bombastic report look plausible.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Nov 10 2015 1:52 utc | 89

@89 st

Great story. No idea if there's a word of truth in it.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 10 2015 7:25 utc | 90

@ 90 jfl Where there is smoke there is fire.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Nov 10 2015 16:12 utc | 91

Here's one from Radio-free Europe along the same lines.

The site mentioned within seems to be a disinformation site. As with the fake ISIS claim of responsibility for the plane crash, the site claims it was a surface-to-air missile which appears to have been ruled out

Posted by: Les | Nov 10 2015 16:35 utc | 92

@ 92 Les I read until "Kyiv-based" and then I recalled the nazis have taken over Kyiv (or Kiev).

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Nov 10 2015 17:15 utc | 93

@91 ST

I can believe the part about the UN/CIA agents in Yemen - wonder if they are the same the Houthis are said to have - one 'died' - in b's latest post? Cannot believe the Russian airliner was shot down by a shoulder-fired missile, if it was flying at 30,000 feet according to kafkananda @38 above.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 10 2015 22:23 utc | 94

on the day that the accident happened, the data available (radar?) showed a very unnatural shot upward (planes can't do that) followed by something like 10K/min downward, more like freefall than any plane trying to control itself after some failure. it is nothing like the other plane disasters that b mentioned.
whether it was a bomb or not, whatever was recording the radar data went straight up and then pretty much straight down...

Posted by: anon | Nov 10 2015 23:28 utc | 95

@94 The shoulder fired missile is a red herring. AAM fire from a nearby war game is not.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | Nov 11 2015 1:29 utc | 96

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