Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 22, 2015

New U.S.-Turkish Bluster For Open War On Syria

The U.S. media, especially cable TV, seems to create full hysteria over the Islamic State and Muslim in general. I assume that this campaign is supposed to prepare the U.S. public for war on Syria.

The way thereto has its own logic. Tom Toles catches the salami slicing drift into it. It is exactly how the open U.S. involvement in war on Syria unfolded so far.

How the U.S. goes to war. Every. Single. Time.

The neocons, here Robert Kagan who wants Hillary Clinton as next president, are already salivating. He claims there is a "crisis of world order", which is something that never really existed, and he wants U.S. troops to invade Syria and Iraq:

What would such an effort look like? First, it would require establishing a safe zone in Syria, providing the millions of would-be refugees still in the country a place to stay and the hundreds of thousands who have fled to Europe a place to which to return. To establish such a zone, American military officials estimate, would require not only U.S. air power but ground forces numbering up to 30,000. Once the safe zone was established, many of those troops could be replaced by forces from Europe, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and other Arab states, but the initial force would have to be largely American.
The heretofore immovable Mr. Assad would face an entirely new set of military facts on the ground, with the Syrian opposition now backed by U.S. forces and air power, the Syrian air force grounded and Russian bombing halted.

But why would Russia and Syria allow this? Why would they halt their bombing of the anti-Syrian insurgents? Kagan does not say. The last quoted sentence is the only mentioning of Russia in the whole lame op-ed. By what means does he want to convince the Russian to agree to that plan? He does not say.

Kagan also wants another 20,000 U.S. troops to directly fight the Islamic State guerrilla. Such an effort alone would need trice that number and would likely escalate further. Kagan is a certified lunatic but for whatever reasons his views are taking seriously in U.S. policy circles.

In the UK prime minister Cameron is also moving towards war:

The prime minister is likely to make a statement to MPs on Thursday, the day after Osborne’s spending review, and he will give them up to a week to digest his argument before deciding whether to call a Commons vote before the December recess.

There is speculation in Westminster that political opinion has shifted in favour of British involvement in Syria. The unanimous support in the UN security council for a resolution calling on member states to take all necessary means to eradicate Isis in the wake of the Paris assault is believed to have helped change the mood among MPs.

But the relevant UN resolution does not allow for war against Syria. It restricts all action to international law and the UN Charter. "Who cares," might Kagan say and Cameron think. Well, the Russians do. And they will have a say on this issue.

Meanwhile Turkey is introducing another proxy army into Syria. After official protest against Russian attacks on "Turkmen" insurgents Turkey is upping the propaganda and claims to have sent volunteers to defend Turkmen in Syria against the Islamic State. Two border villages were captured. But the Turkmen story does not make much sense. There are hardly any Turkmen in Syria except those Chinese Uyghur Jihadis Turkey smuggled in on false Turkish passports. The volunteers Turkey claims to have send are also not harmless. Even the Syrian opposition propaganda outlet in the UK calls them out:

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights confirmed that the villages had been captured from IS but said the campaign had been waged by rebel and Islamist factions and not just Turkmen fighters.

250 of the "volunteers" are men from the Alperen Ocaglari, the youth movement of the Great Union Party. These are real islamo-fascists combining hard right nationalism and radical Islamism into a crude ideology.

M.K. Bhadrakumar believes that Erdogan wants to take, and keep, a big slice of Syria up to Aleppo and that this is the beginning of a new phase:

In strategic terms, a defining moment has been reached in the Syrian conflict – the “first step” in the creation of a swathe of land in northern Syria that will be out of bounds for military operations by Syrian government forces, Russian aircraft, or various militia groups such as Hezbollah who are fighting on the side of the Syrian regime.

Put differently, the race for Aleppo has begun.

But neither Syria nor Russia will agree to that and it is unlikely that Erdogan will be able to send his official army. And make no mistake. Russia HAS the means to prevent Erdogan from further developing this scheme. One unconfirmed report said that a Russian cruise missile already hit one of those "Turkmen" towns. I am not sure that it is more than a rumor but it sounds like a good idea.

I doubt that the U.S. will send its soldiers to  occupy Syria for Erdogan. Obama is unlikely to want to risk war with Russia.

So for now I regard all this as bluster.

But should some kind of (allegedly) Islamic State related terror incident happen in the U.S. all bets are off. Obama may then turn to Kagan for "advice" and start a war that will confront another superpower.

Posted by b on November 22, 2015 at 16:04 UTC | Permalink

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" the idea of fighting against ISIS and against the Assad dictatorshipis far from foolish."

Its an idea that's been going for four years now - anyone willing to stand up and declare it "mission accomplished" yet? Maybe you, you fool?

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 24 2015 0:00 utc | 101

97 The global plutocrats that own private finance, most corporations, are in control of the MIC and our government.

Please keep the focus on the right set of perpetrators of our illness.

Yes, This is correct. Global Plutes do own the MIC. Rothschild, City Of London, Dan Quayle, etc.

Posted by: fast freddy | Nov 24 2015 0:18 utc | 102

@guest77@100 & 101


Mission Accomplished!

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Nov 24 2015 0:26 utc | 103

"Meanwhile Turkey is introducing another proxy army into Syria. After official protest against Russian attacks on "Turkmen" insurgents Turkey is upping the propaganda and claims to have sent volunteers to defend Turkmen in Syria against the Islamic State"

If I was a Russian general I would make a special effort to make sure that each and everyone of these greaseballs gets vaporized ASAP

Posted by: psakiwacky | Nov 24 2015 0:53 utc | 104

@104 Turkey needs to be split up. No question about it.

It's entirely obvious at this point that not only are the elites supporting ISIS, but also that this support is getting into large segments of the nationalist-oriented parts of the population. Turkey is a monster in the making, and Erdogan is the head of the beast.

Turkish soccer fans disrupt moment of silence for Paris attack victims

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 24 2015 1:08 utc | 105

Re: Posted by: Mina | Nov 23, 2015 12:43:47 PM | 85

In case you aren't aware - Sharri is a JAP.

Posted by: Julian | Nov 24 2015 1:32 utc | 106

@ 106 julian.. what is a JAP? japanese? she doesn't look it to me! at any rate - looks like more propaganda to further the same agenda "“The Syrian fighters took my details to keep in touch with a journalist when they return to Syria, where they’re at war with Assad and Daesh.”

sounds very amerikkkan to me!

Posted by: james | Nov 24 2015 2:00 utc | 107

Galloway breaks it down nicely:

How should Lebanon, Iraq, and France react to their terror attacks?

Why PressTV can't seem to get this on their site, I have no idea.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 24 2015 2:03 utc | 108

@107 james

I think the JAP acronym expands to Jewish Amerikkkkan Princess in this case.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 24 2015 2:04 utc | 109

Re: Posted by: Penelope | Nov 23, 2015 3:56:14 PM | 92

One thing I have found very strange, some would say suspicious about the Paris "Terror Attack" is that there were reported to be 129 fatalities and 99 very seriously wounded.

99 eh? What happened to them? It seemed all 99 have made an amazing recovery - but we were told that 99 were critically wounded. You certainly don't get a 100% recovery rate on 99 people critically wounded.

Not a chance.

Posted by: Julian | Nov 24 2015 3:15 utc | 110

@109 psychohistorian.. thanks.. it is pure propaganda at any rate given the content "they’re at war with Assad and Daesh." keep on telling folks this thru the lying guardian news or anywhere else anyone will believe in bs...

speaking of turkey... perhaps the greater plan is to break off a piece turkey too.. make a world war in order to create a new country called kurdistan.. get kleptomaniacs like barzani to run the '''new''' country for you.. slice off a piece of turkey (thanksgiving is approaching) to go with the slices from iraq and syria.. makes sense... make everybody so pissed off with turkey, folks will go along with it too.. the later part seems to be working well enough..

Posted by: james | Nov 24 2015 3:18 utc | 111

guest77 @ 108: Thanks for the Galloway link, he's been speaking truth for many years now.

Posted by: ben | Nov 24 2015 3:19 utc | 112

@108 Your post is wrong.
PRESSTV, here on YouTube, is "Iran's television network, broadcasting in English round-the-clock. Based in Tehran."
And that broadcaster, George Galloway, is not Geoorge Galloway, MP.

Here is George Galloway, MP
BBCTV: George Galloway on Paris terror attacks (19Nov15)

Posted by: MoonEd | Nov 24 2015 3:35 utc | 113

Re: Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 23, 2015 9:04:52 PM | 109

Correct, although in this case the A stands for a lesser-known Australian variety clearly.

Fairly sure a look at Sharri's instagram account confirms this wholly.

I think she may have experienced a little "culture shock" with her treatment given this fact.

Posted by: Julian | Nov 24 2015 4:12 utc | 114

John @ 95, If you must be an idiot, at least don't be an insulting one.

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 24 2015 4:28 utc | 115

@114 Julian

Thanks for the update. I admit to jumping to conclusion w/o checking source doc.

Now that I have, why isn't the story about why Israel is treating "Syrian soldiers" instead of just pointing out the fact by pressitiuting the "heavy handed" JAP treatment story?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 24 2015 4:45 utc | 116

Julian @ 110, Yes, one does wonder about all those injured plus the 99 critically injured; I wish I knew someone who works in a Paris hospital.

I suppose by now you've seen my other Paris hoax links:

-Cafe where windows are unaffected by gunfire & terrorist blowing himself up inside. No damage inside.

-Stadium where a loud couple of booms were fed into the PA system. Not a single picture of anything, no helicopters, nada.

-Behind the concert hall is fake.

Hoaxes are easier for to contain than engineered events; no proxies, patsies, no cover up for murder, etc.

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 24 2015 5:05 utc | 117

@113 moonEd... from wikipedia "Galloway has attracted criticism from both the Left and the Right for his comments relating to the government in Iran, and his work for the state-run satellite television channel, Press TV."

who do you represent in the confusion you appear to be sowing, intentionally or otherwise?

Posted by: james | Nov 24 2015 5:07 utc | 118

Putin had a 2-hour conversation with Khameini today. So much depends upon greater participation by Iran in the Syria war. Russia is going to loan them $7 Billion-- like Russia has extra money. I sure hope that's a payoff to get them more fully involved. I guess US hasn't freed up Iran's frozen funds yet.

Really, I think it all depends on Iran now. Massive manpower is required to overcome nefarious plans to partition Syria. If they are successful partitioning Syria then they'll start on Turkey & Saudi Arabia. The massive chaos that wd result wd cause an exponential growth in jihadi movements w destabilization at least into the Caucasus.

It's one of those turning points: right now it all depends on Iran.

Putin's visit to Iran is officially for an oil-pricing conference. I guess Saudi Arabia is hurting & also Iran wants to join the oil market soon.

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 24 2015 5:20 utc | 119

Laguerre @ 98, If I understand you correctly you're saying that Erdogan couldn't intend to take territory from Syria because Turkey is being negatively affected by Syrian refugees. But don't you realize that Erdogan has been one of the CAUSES of the war in Syria, and therefore of the refugees? His son's business is selling the oil ISIS steals from Syria; his daughter runs a hospital for them. Erdogan is hosting the Muslim Brotherhood. Turkey is the largest supply conduit to ISIS. Surely he expects something in return.. When he set up a no-fly briefly w the connivance of General Allen, Turkish newspapers imm'y began showing maps w Aleppo as "Turkey's 92d Province."

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 24 2015 5:21 utc | 120

guest77 @ 100, I don't think the US has learned anything yet. Someone posted here that 3 chartered planes removed fighters from Syria to transport them to Yemen-- not a peaceful move. I think the countries chartering the planes were Saudi Arabia, France & the US. Please correct me somebody if I got one of those wrong.

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 24 2015 5:22 utc | 121

Great posts and discussion here, as usual moonbamas.

guest77 | Nov 23, 2015 6:48:36 PM | 100

Great post except for the end here:

The problem, though, is that those running the US have no real stake in the game and this latest batch of psychopaths they've been carefully cultivating are probably out of their control if they even would care to try and put a stop to any of this.

Well, no, the people running the country in general have a huge stake in the game. The game being Russia (and its friend China) establishing Iran/Iraq/Syria/Lebanon, and eventually Turkey as outside the U.S. empire zone of control. I think the person with no real stake in the game is Obama, a lame duck just trying to get through his final year without offending anyone or making a huge mistake. A huge mistake like a major war to stop Russia from wiping out ISIS, Al Nusra, and other Wahabbi nutballs and their efforts to take over Syria. PR problems with that, since most in the U.S. who are aware of what Russia is doing (our media is minimizing Russia's effectiveness) applaud Putin.

What the deep state likely wants Obama to do, at a minimum, is keep things simmering, prevent complete Russian victory, while he waits out his final 13 months in office. And, as long as the Saudi/Qatari money keeps flowing and Erdogan has an open border for ISIS and similar, it will be very hard to completely squelch US/Wahabbi imperialism in Syria.

The US has started a fire that it can't control, to which there is no real solution. ... this one is going to rage out of control. ...

This is what we see when the elite have nothing to offer as a solution to the problems they've created.

The U.S. can control the loons and Saudi/Qatari mercenaries. Bomb them and their oil supply, cut off their money, force Turkey to cut off their Turkish havens. Agree to a compromise that leaves Syria intact and sovereign, with the Kurds in the north as a semi-autonomous region with no military. Place serious sanctions on Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the other obvious sources of funding. Let's not kid ourselves: the U.S. could handle this if it wanted to, especially if it cooperated with the other rational actors -- ie all the non-Wahabbist empire nuts.

It doesn't want to. It prefers continuing war, more terror incidents, and chaos, for now.

Posted by: fairleft | Nov 24 2015 5:23 utc | 122

@100 guest 'The US has started a fire that it can't control, to which there is no real solution ...'

Change is the solution, so I suppose you're right in the sense that Hopey Changey's job is to avoid change at all costs. But if he were to take the bit in his teeth he might discover that Israel is quite secure - within its de facto borders, that one pipline could take everyone's gas to Europe, that 'sanctioning' Turkey, the KSA, and the Gulfies works very well - pulls the magic carpet out from under Da'esh, and that closing the spigot does so for all of al-CIAduh. It's quite possible to put out the fire ... there're a multitude of ways, it's the will that's lacking. And always has been. Nihilists are not agents, have no wills of their own. I see I'm echoing @122 fairleft here ...

@121 p

I remember the planes as : 2 Turkish, 1 UAE. But they went all went down to Yemen, surely in cahoots with the KSA/USA who rule the skies there. Someone please correct us if we're wrong.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 24 2015 7:14 utc | 123

I don't seem to see it now, but I could swear I just read someone's (not somebody's) suggestion to partition Turkey, not Syria. That sounds like a great idea, actually. Give the Kurds an autonomous repbublic within the Turkish state, and the Armenians, too, while we're at it. Take a LOT of pressure off of Syria, Iraq, and Iran. Putin and Russia can help, past masters of the autonomous republic. And when you think of it ... Turkey has worked so hard, she really DESERVES partition.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 24 2015 7:27 utc | 124

@124 jfl.. that was my comment @111 that you saw...

Posted by: james | Nov 24 2015 7:32 utc | 125

@123 jfl

About that will thing......if we only had the will we could address all the worlds problems like adults.

It speaks volumes to the efficacy of propaganda that we don't have the social will to attempt to save ourselves from the potential extinction from Fukushima or even talk about it.......sigh

The Western world has been controlled by private finance for centuries, institutionalized by ongoing inheritance and the underpinning of the dominant class structure. Unless and until we eliminate private finance from our world, the adults of our species will continue to be ignored.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 24 2015 7:52 utc | 126

Penelope @ 115 says:

If you must be an idiot, at least don't be an insulting one

you should really qualify such an insulting, idiotic statement.

Posted by: john | Nov 24 2015 8:01 utc | 127

Turkey are f*king insane,
" Turkish military shoots down fighter jet near Syria-Turkey border - reports (VIDEO) "

This could become major..

Posted by: Seder | Nov 24 2015 8:18 utc | 128


cnn & guardian say it was Syrian .. the Guardian says ...

According to Turkish news reports, the jet went down in a buffer zone along the border near an area where fighting has escalated in recent days. Syrian government troops are trying to retake a border crossing point with Turkey near the town of Kassab that rebels captured on Friday.

... far as I can tell the 'buffer zone' is Syrian airspace. The Turks seem to be looking for a fight.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 24 2015 8:51 utc | 129

Posted by: Seder | Nov 24, 2015 3:18:56 AM | 128

Stupidity. Instead of Kurds Turkey will now have the Russian army on the Syrian border.

Posted by: somebody | Nov 24 2015 8:51 utc | 130

'The U.S. media, especially cable TV, seems to create full hysteria over the Islamic State and Muslim in general. I assume that this campaign is supposed to prepare the U.S. public for war on Syria.'

of course/./...the self promotion of ISIS as the bad boys of the 21st century is to whip up public feeling to justify a war on syria.
But Putin is onto this.a pity people dont apply more sense to see that noone promotes their atrocities if the idea is to gain adherents, but to provide cause for war....IS ISIS just a stand alone network of jihadis or something else

Posted by: brian | Nov 24 2015 8:56 utc | 132

@130 sb

Wow. Mohammed Alyahya is a real piece of ... work.

I hadn't put the Crimean Tatars together with Erdogan ... Erdogan would not have picked off a Russian plane in Syrian airspace without the wink and the nod from the USSA. I can't imagine the Russians backing down. It looks like the neocons are pushing the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for WWIII, and he's - as always - obliging them.

A real big 'thank you' to all the people who voted for Obama and got us into this mess.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 24 2015 10:07 utc | 133


"That's what's important, to feel useful in this old world, to hit a lick against what's wrong or to say a word for what's right even though you get walloped for sayin' that word. Now I may sound like a Bible beater yellin' up a revival at a river crossing camp meeting, but that don't change the truth none. There's right and there's wrong. You got to do one or the other. You do the one and you're livin'. You do the other and you may be walkin' around, but you're dead as a beaver hat."

The Alamo (1960), ...which the hooligan Texican rustlers lost, but the gringo Yankees won in the end.

Money trumps armies and rhetoric every time. Money trumps everything. There are only 3 holdouts left.

The Central Bankers and Mil.Gov will eat your liver with fava beans and a fine Chianti. Count on it...

Posted by: Chipnik | Nov 24 2015 11:55 utc | 134


The Zionists Final Solution for The West is like their Final Solution for the Levant. The Internet has too much power, too much sunshine and coarse salt. People were waking up to the Fed, the IMF, the Zurich Mob. They see Greece and Argentina, Iceland and Indonesia, looted and destroyed. They see Venezuala and Brazil, nigeria and Mali brought to their knees. They finally see the pattern, the perpetrators, the Bankster Mafia, and Mil.Gov. The 1% Chosen can only control the 99% by disinformation, by false flags and by fomenting racism. The 1% Chosen are preparing to 'pull' the pillars down, they need EU/US cowed and afraid, under martial law. 'Syrian refugee' is just a convenient trope for using psyop to instill fear of 'The Other', and so destroy in a single moment a century of progressivism and humanist rennaissance.

For the survivors and the slaves, there will only be the ravening shame that our generation let this genocide happen, to ourselves and our posterity, like a great grey beast, twittling and tweeting and twerking, lurching towards Bethlehem.

Posted by: Chipnik | Nov 24 2015 12:09 utc | 135

@113 You're crazy.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 24 2015 13:39 utc | 136

@fairleft - i can accept all that, thanks for reading my post. Though by 'real stake' i meant its all gravy for them. The US is safe and secure and wildly rich if it stuck to its own continent. These wars are just about making it richer.

Posted by: Guest77 | Nov 24 2015 23:34 utc | 137

@118 James and @136 Guest77
...apologies, my post 113 s.b. erased. I misinterpreted his accent.

Posted by: MoonEd | Nov 25 2015 0:19 utc | 138

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