Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 15, 2015

After Paris Two Questions

Syrian Presidency @Presidency_Sy
President al-Assad: Terrorism will not stop here, it will export itself through illegal immigration into Europe.

11:46 AM - 17 Jun 2013


Two questions:

  1. What should be the response to the attacks in Paris?
  2. What will be the response to the attacks in Paris?


Posted by b on November 15, 2015 at 15:19 UTC | Permalink

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ISIS fighters' threats concerning potential attacks in Western countries serve perfectly the plan, which is to transfer the wars from borders to urban centers. Indeed, since a citizen of any Western country, attached to the ISIS or other extremist groups, is determined to die in a bloodbath at the heart of this country, the protection of borders has no meaning, and citizens start to wonder about the ability of the nation-state to protect them.

Posted by: nmb | Nov 15 2015 15:25 utc | 1

Mission to Syria: NINA KOUPRIANOVA
The Soviet Union’s first ambassador to Egypt, Nikolai Vasilievich Novikov, recounts his pioneering role in establishing diplomatic relations in 1944 with Syria.

Must read article for history since the French (!) colonisation of Syria.

What should happen is a French commitment to support their former colony, seriously rethink support of ANY militants. Also have a renewed look at the "moderate" nonsense the US peddled. Oh, and a head slap for Erdogan.

What will happen is likely more of the same. The red white and blue all over the world was creepy, and the passports found suggest this attack was allowed, more likely to drag France into attempting to re-enable the safe zone for "moderates" to train and group.

Posted by: david | Nov 15 2015 15:40 utc | 2

What Marine Le Pen tweeted: crack down hard on Muslim religious activities in France, expel Imams, close Mosques, kick out Muslims. France should rid itself of the plague...

Posted by: Casowary Gentry | Nov 15 2015 15:42 utc | 3

What WILL happen? That remains to be seen, but significant electoral gains for the NF can be foreseen.

Posted by: Casowary Gentry | Nov 15 2015 15:43 utc | 4

What should be the response? Stop arming, supporting, waging wars in the Middle East - problem solved.

What will happen? More intense bombing of Syria by the whole western world? Perhaps a Libya rerun?

Posted by: Seder | Nov 15 2015 15:45 utc | 5

This morning's Le Figaro had a good summary of the growing number of pro-Russian, pro-Bashar voices across the French political scene here. Even Alain Juppé, Sarkozy's rival to be the presidential candidate of Les Républicains in 2017, has drastically softened his position towards the Syrian government.

Posted by: Samn! | Nov 15 2015 15:46 utc | 6

i read somewhere that the Paris terrorist attacks were a response to the French flying missions against ISIS.
Where are they flying out of?
I can believe they were flying missions in support of ISIS. As in dropping munitions.
So why Paris?
I thought France was helping the Libyan rebels. And continues to be anti-Assad.

Posted by: Ha Ha Herman | Nov 15 2015 16:00 utc | 7

Response should be:

- actions against Turkey, KSA, and others who support/facilitate/tolerate ISIS that pressure these countries to turn against ISIS;

- public education that reduces the tendency for people to blame muslims (attacks on Mulsims only help the extremists);

- renewed effort to tackle the Palestinian issue - a longstanding sore point which has been masked by the overwhelming 'Assad must go' media campaign.

Response will likely be:

- the West occupies 'Sunni' areas of eastern Syria and Western Iraq, denying this area to the Russia-Iran coalition (an action which pleases Turkey/KSA/Israel/Gulf States);

- De-facto partition: Syrian immigrants are encouraged to return to the occupied area and talks for re-uniting the occupied areas with Syria and Iraq drag on for years because the votes of the Western occupied Sunni areas would mean Sunnis control a united Syria.

- a turn to the right in Europe / growing authoritarianism and growing Euro-nationalism via anti-immigrant/anti-Muslim movements and anti-Russian propaganda;

- ISIS grows in Afghanistan and other central asian 'stans, creating turmoil and undermining the 'New Silk Road' project.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15 2015 16:14 utc | 8

@ Seder | 5

What should be the response? Stop arming, supporting, waging wars in the Middle East - problem solved.

What will happen? More intense bombing of Syria by the whole western world? Perhaps a Libya rerun?

My thoughts exactly. Maybe France wont dare to bomb SAA, but what they can do is to send French Foreign legion to Syria, and embed them to "moderates", thus effectively establishing safe zones for terrorists, since Russia/SAA wont be able to bomb them either.

Whatever will happen next, I expect only escalation from the West and France.

Posted by: Harry | Nov 15 2015 16:15 utc | 9

There was a military exercise that same day.

First you have to ask: Who did it?

Posted by: From The Hague | Nov 15 2015 16:20 utc | 10

1) Sanity
2) Insanity


P.S. - I have to vent, and so few people in my "real" life can comprehend this: it frustrates me to no end the selectivity with which certain "terrorist" attacks are memorialized. I opened the Amazon app yesterday and was greeted by a mostly stark white page, save for a very sad and limp French flag and a single word: Solidarité. My first reaction was pain; the loss of even one person is a loss for all (for whom the bell tolls and all that). But then, I felt angry. Did I miss Amazon's tribute to the victims who died in the recent plane crash, now assumed (I think) to be carried out by ISIS? If that's a reach, what about the bombings in Beruit? Or is 40 some odd people not enough to warrant a FB profile photo change. Wasn't there a bombing just a day earlier in Iraq? (Which is probably the same as saying "Today is Sunday, wasn't yesterday Saturday?) I could go on, but why bother?

It's a trite phrase, but I weep for humanity. I cocoon myself in sarcasm and cynicism, because I have little hope for any positive change. I just hope I can make some sort of difference by instilling in my children the sanctity and value of humanity. And how to sniff out propaganda.

Posted by: Jessica | Nov 15 2015 16:22 utc | 11

@11 jessica.. i am with you.

what should the response be?

contain saudi arabia and the other gulf states and stop directly and indirectly supporting terrorism which you are directly responsible for - the west.

what will be the response.

i am optimistic. aside from all hell breaking loose in the middle east, i give it a couple of years for saudi arabia to be a completely changed country and for the west to be on the fast track to waking up..

everytime i try to bold text it screws up.. lets see if it works this time..

Posted by: james | Nov 15 2015 16:31 utc | 12

Is there ONE photo of a perpetrator in action?

Till then they can accuse ANYBODY

Posted by: From The Hague | Nov 15 2015 16:33 utc | 13

Support Assad 100% and give Lebanon and Syria their fair share of the gas [Leviathan gas field] and oil profits [pipelines].

Posted by: shadyl | Nov 15 2015 16:34 utc | 14

I suspect the Paris incident was done by the Saudi's, and maybe with the Turks, to force NATO and the US to support a no fly zone and even a ground intrusion into Syria. Think of it as chemical weapons redux. The Saudi king and his son are seriously beleaguered as the wars in Syria and Yemen have gone bad and the US has moved away from "Assad must go" language. The Saudi economy is in the crapper and the other Saudi royals are getting pissed.

ISIS is a saudi creation in any case so the response should be actions against Saudi as well as against the other supporters of ISIS, the Erdogan Regmime, UAE, Qatar, etc.

Posted by: alaric | Nov 15 2015 16:36 utc | 15

Additionally, I remember when a group of Taliban officials came to Texas to negotiate pipelines and profits [with Bush] in Afghanistan...and we know how that turned out.

Posted by: shadyl | Nov 15 2015 16:38 utc | 16

@ b

An à propos piece of info ( Via Angry Arab) :

The top French client over the period was Saudi Arabia, which snapped up €12 billion worth of weapons over the period — including $3 billion bought to help the Lebanese army.

Let's not forget all those push for the sale of the rafales and how the GCC is holdin the P3 by the ----- to get those arms since UK and France need those petro dollars.

Posted by: Yul | Nov 15 2015 16:41 utc | 17

What will be the reaction in France?

The usual, handwringing, national solidarity show, quarrels between different factions (about borders and the like), more police, military, actions, more surveillance, more control of the ppl (internet, surveillance, etc. etc.), more discrimination against Muslims, more exclusion of them from jobs etc., more tracking of school children, though that has now fallen flat (after Charlie Hebdo, ppl rose up, 7 year-olds arrested?), more hype from the FN, more troubles with the EU (supposed closed borders which won’t be, Hollande’s decree is empty, as it is impossible), a great storm of confused lashing out, blaming from your supicious neighbor who is dark and worships Allah, to Hollande, to the US, the CIA, the Mossad, nationalists against the EU, etc. etc.

In two months it will be forgotten. Who even knows who was killed at Charlie Hebdo? Why were they? Who remembers Merah? The ppl are manipulated to get on an erstaz (yes there are the dead, I don’t neglect) emotional roller coster, grieving and weeping and hanging on to authority, to then, 6 weeks or so later, return to ‘regular’ life, ignore all State actions.

Hollande will make speeches about attacking IS (Daesh) etc. but no French action in Syria will influence world events at all.

What should be the reaction?

Governements should stop handling and controlling or ignoring, facilitating, ‘terrorism’ - and that won’t happen. Until the ppl throw them over.

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 15 2015 16:49 utc | 18

well, to get the ball rolling Federal Marshalls should be immediately dispatched to arrest John McCain for consorting with the enemy and for inciting violence. then, once he's been convicted of treason and led off to singsing and this news has been splashed across the nation's headlines, thus breaking the psychological bondage between the 'exceptional' people and their 'exceptional' leaders, the bigger fish should be hauled in.

meanwhile, of course, all US forces should be withdrawn from the greater ME (and elsewhere) and a process of political reconciliation and massive reparations should be implemented.

Unfortunately, all i see on the horizon is more lying, more bombing, more destruction, more death.

Posted by: john | Nov 15 2015 17:04 utc | 19

ot - patrick bahzad post on ssr.

Posted by: james | Nov 15 2015 17:09 utc | 20

Harry | 9

...send French Foreign legion to Syria, and embed them to "moderates", thus effectively establishing safe zones for terrorists, since Russia/SAA wont be able to bomb them either.

Whatever will happen next, I expect only escalation from the West and France.

G20 will resolve to put NATO troops in Syria under the guise of attacking IS. All the patriotic rubes will believe this farce. The real agenda will be to protect IS from Russia allowing it to strengthen and regroup. With NATO "boots on the ground" they can DIRECTLY supply IS with everything John McCain and his girlfriend Lindsey dream about.

It's an ingenious plan that will throw a spanner in Putin's gearbox.

Posted by: fast freddy | Nov 15 2015 17:16 utc | 21

count me as unconvinced nato will put ground troops in syria, or that a move towards syria for a no fly zone and etc. will happen.. for that to happen, it means going into a direct confrontation with russia.. now, given the mccains of the world - i don't completely discount a push towards ww3, but i am hopeful it won't play out like that..

Posted by: james | Nov 15 2015 17:19 utc | 22

Agree with Jessica, James, Noirette and particularly with John

I add on the "What should be the response" by the French Gov:
- Investing more in terminating the "Cités"/guettos: more investment in public services (education & healthcare) to reach the same levels than in middle-class neighbourhoods.
- Reducing the social/racial inequalities in access to employment
- Stop police abuses against Arabs and Blacks
- Stop supporting Israel against Palestine
- Leave the ME alone! If France does not want to engage in war against terrorism like Russia and Iran are doing, at least be NEUTRAL
- Stop doing business with totalitarian regimes: Saudi Arabia, just to start with
- Reinforcing the Security services
- Put the senior staff of Front National in jail, for promoting racism and xenophobia

What will be the response? I bet none of those (maybe reinforcing the security services, to better control dissidents)

Posted by: Rabino Kuerbovich | Nov 15 2015 17:33 utc | 23

What should be the response to the attacks in Paris?
Condemn Turkey, KSA, Qatar and it's own French intelligence agency DGSE for the supply, funding and training of the salafist terrorists in Syraq.

What will be the response to the attacks in Paris?
Event is politically exploited by NATO to impose a "no fly zone" creating safe havens for salafist terrorists in Syraq and further supply, fund and train them. Russia counters this by playing the bombed Russian air plane in the Sanai card.

Posted by: diddy | Nov 15 2015 18:00 utc | 24

james @22: count me as unconvinced ...[that] means going into a direct confrontation with Russia

Russia is only providing air support. It is SAA, Hez, and some Iranians on the ground.

The rationale has already been stated by McCain et al.: Russia is supporting Assad, not attacking ISIS. So the US-led coalition has a free hand to go against ISIS.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15 2015 18:07 utc | 25

Using the Problem Tree as model, the root of the problem must be addressed to ultimately solve the problem. I posted that root as provided by Angry Arab in yesterday's thread:

"3) there is no way on earth to stem the menace of ISIS and Al-Qa`idah like organizations without going to the source, in Saudi Arabia which is the official headquarters of the Ibn Taymiyyah's terrorist interpretation of Islam.
4) Ibn Taymiyyah is the one thinker/theologian who has inspired and guided the deeds and thoughts of terrorists striking in the name of Islam....
18) The Saudi and Qatari regime media (Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiyya in particular but others as well) have created a culture of terrorism in which crimes against civilians who happen to be Shi`ites or Alawites or Christians or Sunnis who reside in "regime dominated areas of Syria" are justified on a daily basis. Just yesterday, after the bombs of the southern suburbs both Saudi and Qatari regime media provided ample justifications and rationalization for the crimes and lionized the terrorists who perpetrated them. This culture of terrorism is responsible climate in which crimes of Paris take place.
19) Western governments can't have it both ways: they can't continue to support gulf regimes and arming them while claiming to want to fight terrroism.
20) US and Western governments and media are responsible for the selective denunciations and condemnations culture: they are silent about the daily crimes against the Palestinian civilian population by key West ally, the terrorist state of Israel.
21) Arabs/Muslims and Westerners can't get to reach a common understanding against all manners of terrorism as long as Western governments and Arab regimes continue to be selective in condemnation of terrorism.
22) Western support for dictatorships in the Arab world are responsible in many ways for the creation of ISIS and those terrorist groups....
26) The Islam of Arab regimes is a dangerous and conservative Islam. It can't be changed by the military commanders of Western powers but it can be changed by the people of the region if they are allowed to choose and think freely: but neither the West nor the Arab regimes want the Arabs to think freely. Al-Azhar University has become through bribes a tool for the Saudi Wahhabi regime.
27) It is not sectarian to declare Saudi Wahhabi doctrine as the official doctrine of Jihadi terrorism. Wahhabiyyah is not a sect: it is a school of fanatical terrorist thought and practice."

But if you look at these images posted at his site, it's rather unlikely that the French will even imagine doing the right thing,

What will happen now is the current status quo will be continued; the elite make too much money for any significant alteration let alone erasing Wahhabiyyah or solving Palestine or reversing neocolonialism. A few twigs from the problem tree will be pruned, but the roots won't be touched, and the problem will continue.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15 2015 18:14 utc | 26

@25 jackrabbit.. i don't listen to msm, especially the usa msm.. if that's how they are spinning it, i'm still not convinced.. mccain may as well be an adherent of ibn taymiyyah for all i know..

Posted by: james | Nov 15 2015 18:14 utc | 27

diddy @24:

The US-led coalition want to retain territory held by Sunni forces (rebels, al Nusra, ISIS, etc.), not just protect isolated pockets of safe-havens.

And providing rebels with sophisticated MANPADS is risky because 1) they could fall into terrorist hands, and 2) Russia will see that as an act of war.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15 2015 18:15 utc | 28

An answer to both questions.
Remember who created them and I mean all the acronyms.
Enough said!

Posted by: noman | Nov 15 2015 18:18 utc | 29

Gee, not Putin did it, but Snowden enabled it:

"But now we’ve entered the inevitable “U.S. Officials Say” stage of the “reporting” on the Paris attack – i.e. journalists mindlessly and uncritically repeat whatever U.S. officials whisper in their ear about what happened. So now credible news sites are regurgitating the claim that the Paris Terrorists were enabled by Snowden leaks — based on no evidence or specific proof of any kind, needless to say, but just the unverified, obviously self-serving assertions of government officials."

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15 2015 18:18 utc | 30

@24: technically Russia can easily prevent the creation of a NATO no-fly zone, since its gear is superior to that of NATO. But will Putin confront NATO over Syria?
I hope Putin prevents the Paris FF be used to slow down the mauling of IS and other assorted western intel tools in Syria.

Posted by: nopa | Nov 15 2015 18:28 utc | 31

France should join the Russian effort against ISIS and support diplomatic efforts to end the Syrian civil war rather then seek regime change.

Posted by: Edward | Nov 15 2015 18:30 utc | 32

Any update on the Vienna meeting? Has lavrov sold Assad out? This is what I am reading on Twitter.
b do you have an update.

Posted by: James lake | Nov 15 2015 18:33 utc | 33

What should happen? The US ought to be forced to abandon its unipolar global ambitions. Start by dismantling the US/Saudi/Israel alliance that operates in the dark to recruit, fund, and coordinate terrorism worldwide. The fall of the House of Saud would be a good beginning to shake things up. Arrest and prosecute war criminals and crack down on arms trafficking and the underground economy surrounding continuous war. Prosecute, prosecute, prosecute. Establish legal framework to prevent recurrence.

What will happen? There will be military escalation by the west in Syria under the auspices of fighting ISIS but it will really be undermining Russia's attempt to save Syrian sovereignty. What Russia does with that is to be determined.

Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Nov 15 2015 18:33 utc | 34

@26 karlofi,

I agree with your problem tree depiction of problems. I see the roots of the problem tree being private finance and immoral inheritance and certainly those are not being discussed.

What should be done
Stop the destruction of nations that causes inhabitants fleeing such to lash out at those they think are the perpetrators of their hurt.

What will be done
Escalation of propaganda and suppression of dissent. While I would like to see change before it is too late, it looks like our hand basket of humanity is headed straight to extinction.....and possibly in what is left of my lifetime......sigh!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 15 2015 18:34 utc | 35

@32: any western country joining the Russian effort will only slow down the superb work currently being conducted by RuAF, Hezb, Shiite militias and to some extent SAA. Western countries will always act to throw a spanner in the works, and do not contribute significantly to firepower or tactics, which the Russians and Soleimani are mastering at a higher level than any western country could.
I always interpreted Putin’s call for joint action as a way to call out the west on their hypocrisy, not as an actual invitation. Apart from the fact that Russian and NATO gear is incompatible, why have bloated and inefficient western countries join a lean and mean fighting machine which is getting the job done? And then only to end up torpedoing it?

Posted by: nopa | Nov 15 2015 18:37 utc | 36

This morning's Le Figaro had a good summary of the growing number of pro-Russian, pro-Bashar voices across the French political scene here.
I thought that was a most positive move, which has been picked up elsewhere.

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 15 2015 18:43 utc | 37

37 was re 6 Samn!

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 15 2015 18:47 utc | 38

I agree with Noirette @18 that not much will happen. Hollande to me seems like Obama, an anti-McCain, someone who just wants to slide through and not have dozens of bodybags as part of his legacy. Some bombing of ISIS desert encampments, kill some civilians in Raqqah, and close a few 'rad' mosques in France.

john @19 has the first step right, arrest McCain for material support for terrorists. Second, the UN makes a resolution barring aid or refuge to Al Qaeda and ISIS by its government or private citizens. No excuses, no exceptions. Those countries that don't comply will be subject to a severe (but excluding food and medicine) economic boycott. Right now we have a surplus of oil resources in the world, especially with Iran re-entering the market. So, we could seriously go after Saudi if it fails to comply.

Posted by: fairleft | Nov 15 2015 18:57 utc | 39

The should: A UN Security Council resolution that (a) clarifies the extent of state support for the development/support of Daesh from the members of the Gulf Coordinating Council and NATO and (b) isolates Daesh economically by imposing sanctions on any private or public entity that does business with Daesh (including the sharing of intelligence data by the US and its partners).

The will: (quoting from #8 Jackrabbit):

"- the West occupies 'Sunni' areas of eastern Syria and Western Iraq, denying this area to the Russia-Iran coalition (an action which pleases Turkey/KSA/Israel/Gulf States);

"- De-facto partition: Syrian immigrants are encouraged to return to the occupied area and talks for re-uniting the occupied areas with Syria and Iraq drag on for years because the votes of the Western occupied Sunni areas would mean Sunnis control a united Syria.

"- a turn to the right in Europe / growing authoritarianism and growing Euro-nationalism via anti-immigrant/anti-Muslim movements and anti-Russian propaganda;

"- ISIS grows in Afghanistan and other central asian 'stans, creating turmoil and undermining the 'New Silk Road' project."

Posted by: Laker | Nov 15 2015 19:05 utc | 40

Military vs. diplomatic solution. They should carry on with the Vienna talks, convince as many groups as possible to adhere to a ceasefire, start negotiating and coordinate the fight against the terrorist. I think we will see some progress in western Syria. Russia's entry has left little hope for the opposition to win this war and many will be looking for better options than fighting till the end.

I do not expect much coordination though in the fight against IS, but more of a race where each side tries to gain as much influence as possible. Riyadh and Ankara would love to link up as much as Tehran and Damascus. Western countries seem to favor the Kurds plus some democratic forces to block both.

Posted by: jaqwith | Nov 15 2015 19:08 utc | 41

fairleft: ... not much will happen. Hollande to me ... anti-McCain

I think you are right only IF a ceasefire can be arranged that secures the position of the rebels and ISIS.

I don't think the US-led coalition will allow the Sunni-held areas to fall to the Russia-Iran coalition.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15 2015 19:13 utc | 42

"I don't think the US-led coalition will allow the Sunni-held areas to fall to the Russia-Iran coalition."

my fear as well. But how are they going to physically stop RuAF/Hezb/Shiites/SAA as they roll into Idlib and Allepo, then later to the north and east?

Posted by: nopa | Nov 15 2015 19:16 utc | 43

This is paraphrasing something I read somewhere else, but...

I will tell you what's already happened, and that is the weakening of the resistance to Israel.

-10s of thousands of military-aged men dead
-Iraq's already been depopulated and shot up
-Syria's been depopulated and shot up
-Hezbollah has suffered casualties and potential material losses
-Russia seems content to allow Assad to be voted out, provided that the new leadership keep Russia's naval base.. for Iran that could mean that they lose a potential ally..
-Saudi Arabia becomes more destabilized
-Yemen is already destabilized

Posted by: bbbbb | Nov 15 2015 19:21 utc | 44

1. What should be the response to the attacks in Paris?

The French aircraft carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, should be turned around and return to port. There should be strong diplomatic efforts to censure Turkey and Saudi Arabia for aggravating an already desperate situation, and condemn them for their work to ignite a regional war. It should be suggested that the United States withdraw militarily from the immediate theater of war in Syria, where it has not been invited to be, by Syria's legitimate government. There should be no further increase of non-Syrian boots on the ground in the disputed areas. The French government should state that it has no further intentions to arm any rebel faction in Syria.

2. What will be the response to the attacks in Paris?

The nations most responsible for aggravating and prolonging Syria's war will not be reproached in diplomatic circles; and their deeds will go unpunished, except for the situation leading to a World War, in which we will all be punished.

After the dead are mourned in France, I'm expecting there will be some kind of deep national reflection on these events. Maybe it won't end as it did in the US, after 2001, with the nation being subsumed by the security state, and just being hypnotized by a kind of cartoon posing as a political class.

Posted by: Copeland | Nov 15 2015 19:21 utc | 45

Psychohistorian @35

I agree that there's more to the tree than just the Saudi terror state. Indeed, the issue of terrorism is just one mighty branch really. In my own historical studies, I've decided that competition instead of cooperation is the root problem going back over 10,000 years. And if pressed to go beyond that, I'd say it's our DNA that's the ultimate root of the problem. Find a copy of Spirit in the Gene to understand why.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15 2015 19:23 utc | 46

@bbbbb: dunno whether you are not just trying to discourage?
some of your pnts are valid, but overall the situation has much improved for Syria, Iran and Hezb. Also, Israel is not enjoying having it's wings clipped, and it's embeds with IS also being bombed and taken out.

Posted by: nopa | Nov 15 2015 19:35 utc | 47

What will happen, is a guaranteed further intrusion of the French spy state.
- A push to the right wing among the French public, with racists/bigots increasing in popularity.
- Scapegoating all French Muslims for discrimination and repression. Which would also be the excuse used for targeting all lower classes for erosion of privacy and human rights.
- and deeper ties with their despicable allies as part of the US Empire.

I can't see anything else but Antabuse of power by the French elite coming out of the Paris attacks.

Oh and Obama should be arrested along with McCain and the rest of those freaks

Posted by: tom | Nov 15 2015 19:36 utc | 48

Failure of Intel? (posted this link in the wrong thread) Iraq warned of attacks before the assault.

Posted by: Daisee | Nov 15 2015 19:47 utc | 49

Jackrabbit @42: The Sunni-held areas are already falling, and nothing that wimpy guys like Hollande/Obama -- and it's good for the world that they _are_ wimps -- can do about it. Are they willing to put boots on the ground? No. End of story.

Alternatively, Hollande will arrange some big 'radical mosque raid' spectacles and similar. That always works for pacifying the Islamophobes.

Lest we forget, Obama is extremely tight with Wall Street's Western corporate globalization crusade, rather than the military-industrial complex neocon/military crusade. His heart is with the TPP and its Euro version, and Wall Street, which will shower him with money in a year and a half.

Not that the neocons and the big Western military-industrial complexes don't have several more tricks up their sleeves. But this overblown terror attack, which took half as many lives as the Russian airliner explosion, ain't big enough, ain't U.S.-connected enough.

Posted by: fairleft | Nov 15 2015 19:55 utc | 50

Michael Corleone keeps growing up....

Posted by: Fernando | Nov 15 2015 19:55 utc | 51

@47 I was paraphrasing something I read elsewhere..

But this has been very devastating for the region.. think about the amount of manpower from both sides that have been killed..
Furthermore lots military hardware damaged, residences destroyed that will take years to rebuild.. depopulation with some % of the the more educated class fleeing to the west.

The only ones benefiting are the ones who haven't lost a thing.. namely the West, Russia, Israel

Posted by: bbbbb | Nov 15 2015 19:55 utc | 52

@11 Jessica

Yes, it is precisely this moral blindness/malpractice that leads us where we are today. Paris IS one of the world's great cities. Beirut (the Paris of the Levant), Baghdad, and Damascus WERE some of the world's great cities...

Our glorious leaders have taken the wrong turn and nearly every juncture. I wish I could believe that this will change. Obama and Putin sent away the translator and had a private talk today. Perhaps some good will come of it.

Also, safe areas and no fly zones are a red line for Russia, not to mention the Kurds and the Syrian government. Won't happen. Shouldn't happen.

Posted by: chuckvw | Nov 15 2015 20:14 utc | 53

Might I add that seeing groveling displays from ME leaders and countries to this French tragedy is disappointing.

While it was a tragedy for non-culpable French civilians, France overall should receive a giant middle-finger for their meddling in the region instead

Posted by: bbbbb | Nov 15 2015 20:22 utc | 54

These are sort of ridiculous questions. Maybe I am too sensitive but the questions imply everything that I hate and more about that from this awesome interview in addition with Angry Arab's piece two best informations that I've seen.

So all in all who give a damn what France is going to do. It is third rate country and on its own doesn't represent anything.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Nov 15 2015 20:23 utc | 55

@ Neretva'43 | 55

So all in all who give a damn what France is going to do.

Libya from the most prosperous African country was destroyed to failed state primarily by France and UK, so yes, they can inflict plenty of damage if they choose to. Also when false flag "Assad gassed his own people" was going on, France was the most eager country to bomb Syria, ironically it was US with UK who said no, with Russia's provided face-safe solution.

Posted by: Harry | Nov 15 2015 20:33 utc | 56

You give too much credit to that racist country. Politically, economically, militarily France is third rate country, being mild here. Same with UK and Germany. And they KNOW that, therefore they have allied themselves with the USA. Only gang mentality keep them afloat.

As for all this they are pathetic and miserable, just as they were in WWII. Their "enemy" is a fiction and "war" they are going to wage is in their imagination.

Now when French battleship group is allegedly on its way to Syria's coast or Persian gulf, I would like to see the Syrians (Assad) to employ their Bastion (Yakhont) coastal missile system.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Nov 15 2015 20:49 utc | 57

What Hollande should be besides resigning:

1) Serious crackdown on the Sunni Islamic centers funded by Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait and expulsion of ALL the clerics who are not french citizens. The local clerics should go to a debriefing on the proper guidelines for their preachings. They should be warned that all their public preaching will be recorded and scrutinized for extremist and sectarian contents. Any of these will give way to financial sanctions
2) Tight control on the financing on these centers
3) A marshall plan to tackle unemployment in the Moslem ghettos around Paris
4) Mandatory education at school on Islam for all from kindergaten

What Hollande will do

Big clown declarations as Hollande who badly needs Saudi and Qatari money and... nothing else. A third attack is inevitable.
Marine le Pen will probably be France's next president...

Posted by: Virgile | Nov 15 2015 20:51 utc | 58

What should happen: On the military front NATO forces should join the Russian joint command centre and there formulate a military strategy based on NATO driving towards Raqqa from Iraq, and Russia's allies driving east from Syria, with the plan being that the two forces meet at the Euphrates. On the covert front all the resources of the west should be directed at taking down Salman in Saudi Arabia and Erdogan in Turkey. They can leave the House of Saud in place, and leave the AKP in charge, fine, I don't care, but the leadership of those two regimes should be in the hands of puppets, not wannabe puppet-masters.

What will happen: The west will do exactly what ISIS is hoping they will do i.e. barge into Syria and make an unstable situation infinitely worse. If they are really stooooopid then NATO forces will end up fighting Russian forces on the ground and in the air, and all the while ISIS, Salman and Erdogan will be laughing themselves silly on the sidelines.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 15 2015 20:59 utc | 59

"Marine le Pen will probably be France's next president..."

That's is what I would like to see. That would be the end of farcical liberal system or covered fascism.

An opionon of author of France.

Endnote: My personal and limited knowledge of French society comes from having traveled, lived, and worked in France. I have witnessed the egregious class segregation and extreme racism of that country first hand, and have personally suffered some of its consequences. Within the young professional classes in Paris there is little racism, but between the dominant social classes towards the lower classes there is viscous and palpable racism. The disdain of the elite classes for the working and un-working classes is highly racialized, as is their view of former French colonies. The French ruling and elite classes are extremely chauvinistic and racist. I have not felt anything so palpable in other European countries where I have worked or traveled for work: The Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Italy, UK, … In my view, this determinative class-racism is part of the mechanism that creates this domestic terror, as I have outlined above.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Nov 15 2015 21:00 utc | 60

Daesh’s strategy is proceeding according to plan.

That is, the Caliphate can only grow up on the ruins of Arab nation states. What better way to dissolve existing Arab nation sates than to bring in the “Crusaders” to create maximum chaos?

Daesh bombs Paris not to exact revenge, but as part of their well-thought out strategy. The French will unwittingly oblige. Even worse, NATO article 5 may be invoked which may create even more provocative visuals.

What is at the root of this chaos is the Sunni vs. Shiite civil war that must be confronted. Christian countries cannot play a role resolving this conflict that has been ongoing since 632 AD.

Posted by: Mark Rothschild | Nov 15 2015 21:59 utc | 62

sunni, shite civil war my ass.. that is just convenient cover for more of the same agenda from the west.. was religion the issue in ireland, or was it british colonialism/imperialism?

Posted by: james | Nov 15 2015 22:10 utc | 63

@Neretva'43 #60

Me can't read French. Marine Le Pen's National Front website provide second opinion. She supports The Separatists in Ukraine and Russia Federation.

If you are using Goggle browser might wanna try Yandex browser with ease translation. Excellent security and bookmarks.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 15 2015 22:11 utc | 64

Don't the Saudi and Turk regimes want NATO to invade Syria? This latest atrocity would then be made to order. In that sense, the Takfiris aren't at all biting the hand that (most directly) feeds them.

Make sense?

Posted by: ComradeStalin | Nov 15 2015 22:25 utc | 65

Vienna2 Syria talks: Ceasefire against all except ISIS & Lavrov wants to expand the coalition fighting against ISIS.

Paris bombing: It may be a hoax; doesn't much matter either way.

Imm'y result is a state of emergency: borders closed, arrests upon suspicion, suspension of habeus corpus, searches w/o warrant, curfew, banning of demonstrations. (US state of emergency post 9-11 has never ended. Law requiring that it be renewed only after Congressional debate is ignored & Prez simply renews it quietly every year.)

Longer term result: Borders closed, so immigration problem solved & thereby a powerful argument for leadership change is nullified. If ban on demonstrations continues it will further inhibit change of govt & facilitate signing of TTIP. Sara Wagenknecht, die Linke party, Germany calls for exit from NATO, anti-austerity, anti-TTIP. Don't know what the other oppositions stand for, but all are less likely to be successful now.

In light of what Russia's agreed to at Vienna2 these "attacks" were not terribly necessary to facilitate more participation against ISIS; indeed Russia's been requesting it from the beginning.

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 15 2015 22:29 utc | 66

1/ What should be done by the French govt?

- Ground all international flights for 2 weeks
- Suspend all international flights by El Al and flights between France and Israel
- Monitor all train and road traffic in and out of France, step up border patrols for a month
- Demand explanations from ambassadors from Israel, Turkey and Saudi Arabia over their involvement
- Weed out all possible moles working for these countries within its agencies, esp security agencies
- Begin enquiries into the sources of funding for Sunni Islamic mosques, madrasahs and all other cultural institutions in France patronised by Sunni Muslims
- Expose Israeli infiltration into French Jewish community and come clean on Israeli attempts to bribe, blackmail, manipulate or panic French Jews into "aliyah" through false flag attacks on Jewish institutions that can be blamed on Muslims

2/ What will be done by French govt?

- None of the above
- Stupidly evoke and activate Article 5 of NATO treaty leading to declaration with US and UK of no-fly zone over Syria
- Anything to save President Hollande's bum

Posted by: Jen | Nov 15 2015 22:35 utc | 67

Desired result: Acceptance of destruction of Daesh, Al Qaeda in Syria as task #1, calling Saudia Arabia and Turkey to account for supporting Salafist terrorists, acceptance of Syrian government and Russia as partners.

Probable result: Hand-wringing, backlash against Muslims in Europe, political firestorm over refugees. We've already seen some efforts to tie the attacks to Assad, but I doubt they will gain traction. More talk of a no-fly zone, but it will look stupid. A lot of noise, but very little action.

Apparently four of the attackers were French citizens who traveled to Syria. France might want to reconsider its approach of winking and nudging at its citizens who travel abroad to become Jihadis. It could become a real political problem for Hollande.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 15 2015 22:37 utc | 68

what ought to happen:

We in the west ought finally to realize that it is our own governments who are our enemies, at work directly or through proxies a la al-CIAduh/Da'esh, and that we ourselves are the only ones on our side. We ought to seize power. We ought to change our situation.

That link to the AP above, posted by: Daisee | Nov 15, 2015 2:47:55 PM | 49 tells the story.

what is likely to happen:

I don't know. One of the polar extremes : better or worse, or I hope at least something in between. I agree with James and Neretva that NATO is unlikely to intervene directly.

I hope, the French in particular stop doing what they have been ...

If France is at war, "It's because of the criminal incoherence of French foreign policy, ... plunging Syria into chaos"

The French Republic, as president François Hollande revealed in the interview with journalist Xavier Panon, has been supplying weapons to the Syrian rebels since 2012. Through channels of the DGSE, 20mm cannons, machine guns, rocket launchers, and anti-tank missiles were delivered to the "moderate" rebels, in violation of the arms embargo put in place by the European Union in the summer of 2011.

An advisor in the Elysée recalled, according to Panon:

"Yes indeed, we are furnishing what they need, but within the limits of our means and in accordance with our evaluation of the situation. Under cover, you can't act except on a small scale, with limited means, limited objectives."
France has also put special forces on the ground aimed at the training and operational support of the combattants.

In March 2012, 13 French officers got captured by the Syrian Army when the Islamic Caliphate was relaunched in the Baba Amr quarter at Homs by the Al-Farsouq brigade and the Al-Waleed brigade, which would soon leave the FSA to join ranks with the Islamic State.

President Hollande, quoted in Le Monde confided in August 2014:

"We can't let up on our support that we have been granting these rebels who are the only ones sharing the democratic spirit."

... and take to heart the words of a man who can save them 5 years of suffering that his country has been made to go through ...

Syria - President Bashar al-Assad on Paris attacks

Journalist asked:

“Your reaction on what happened in Paris on Friday?”

President al-Assad said,

“First of all, we offer our condolences to the French families that lost dear members yesterday, and we are the closest people to this situation to understand what happened yesterday in France, because we have been suffering from this kind of terrorism for the last five years in Syria.”

“And what happened in France yesterday cannot be separated from what happened in Beirut two days ago, because this is terrorism. That’s why you shouldn’t look at terrorism as separate arenas, like looking at Syria’s arena, Yemen, Libya, France. Actually, it’s one arena all around the world.”

Journalist asked:

“Do the Syrian intelligence services have any indication or information that either the people who committed this act came from Syria or were in contact with any group in Syria?”

President al-Assad said,

“No, we don’t have any information about what happened, but it’s not about the names, and who went and who didn’t. We warned about what’s going to happen in Europe three years ago, and we said don’t mess with the fault line in Syria. It’s going to be like an earthquake that will reverberate around the world, and unfortunately the European officials didn’t pay attention to what we said. They thought that we are threatening, and they didn’t learn from what happened at the beginning of this year, from Charlie Hebdo.”

He added

“Just giving statements that you are against terrorism means nothing. You have to go and fight terrorism, you have to pursue the correct and right policies, that’s what they have to do.”

Journalist asked:

“Is Syria ready to fight with France against terrorism if they ask and help the French intelligence services?”

President al-Assad said,

“They don’t have to ask; they only have to be serious. This is where we are ready to fight terrorism with them. We are ready to fight terrorism with whoever wants to really fight terrorism, and the French government is not serious yet.”

Journalist asked:

“Do you have a message to send to the French President Hollande?”

President al-Assad said

“Work for the sake and the interest of your people. And the question that any Frenchman would ask today: did the French policy during the last five years do any good to the French people? Actually, no. So, the first thing I’ll ask is to work for the interest of the French people, and if he wants to do that, he has to change his policy.”

Journalist asked:

“What is the condition for the Syrian government and the French government to work together, or for the Syrian intelligence services to work with the French intelligence services?”

President Assad said

“You cannot talk about intelligence cooperation without political cooperation. You cannot talk about intelligence cooperation in order to fight terrorism while at the same time your policies, the policies of the same government, are going in the direction of supporting terrorism. That’s what I meant by being serious.”

... at the end of the day its my own USA that has created all this trouble, for Syrians and French alike. The Syrians have stood up, have been standing up to the most monstrous aggression by the US and France, among others, for 5 long years and its about time that we, too, stand up to it with them, in solidarity beside them.

We in the west ought finally to realize that it is our own governments who are our enemies, at work directly or through proxies a la al-CIAduh/Da'esh, and that we ourselves are the only ones on our side. We ought to seize power. We ought to change our situation.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 15 2015 22:53 utc | 69

This maybe Out of topic, but consider this
1-Syria has a war of 'liberation' since 4 years
2-Russia and allies are creaming the hell out of ISIS
3- Only NOW do we have a 'refugee' or migrant problem...

Are the Powers That Be evacuating 'assets' from the Middle-east?
And putting them out of harms way?

Just wondering
p.s. check out the rape statistic in Sweden since 'Enlightened' immigration

Posted by: Melusine | Nov 15 2015 22:59 utc | 70

What should be the response to the attacks in Paris?

..Who gave France the right to bombs Syria a sovereign State and elected government?

French jets drop 20 bombs in massive anti-ISIS raid in Syria

What will be the response to the attacks in Paris?

They deserve it for their endless wars and past colonial misdeeds.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 15 2015 23:00 utc | 71

@70 Melusine

The link posted by Neretva'43 | Nov 15, 2015 3:23:19 PM | 55 has an Irishman in Paris speaking about 'coercive engineered migration' as yet another weapon in the hands of the Neolibraconian globalists. He mentions the woman, Kelly Greenhill (pdf), who coined the term, further on. I think Kelly, Gearoid, and yourself are onto something.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 15 2015 23:20 utc | 72

@20 jack smith

Now if they'll only stop arming al-CIAduh while calling them "the only ones sharing the democratic spirit" they will have accomplished something.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 15 2015 23:25 utc | 73

@73 refers to jack smith @71, not @20

Posted by: jfl | Nov 15 2015 23:27 utc | 74

jfl @69

That's the same drum Chomsky, Zinn, Parenti, myself, and many others have been pounding since the 1960s. The only difference between then and now is the mass of evidence proving we are correct, that we reside within an outrageously arrogant genocidal Outlaw Empire that wants to control the human activities on our planet and will kill its own citizens and others in whatever numbers are required to ensure the goal is attained. I believe Putin and others within Russia, China, and elsewhere understand those stakes, have stood up and said No More; however, they also know the tremendous danger of the situation, so progress will be very slow--particularly for those of us wanting events to move quicker.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15 2015 23:29 utc | 75

So is France/NATo going to bomb the east while Russia bombs the west? What's the legality of this????

Posted by: bbbbb | Nov 15 2015 23:30 utc | 76

guardian: G20: Barack Obama and Vladimir Putin agree to Syrian-led transition.
Presidents of US and Russia meet at leaders’ conference and agree to have the UN negotiate a peace deal between the opposition and the Assad regime

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 15 2015 23:57 utc | 77

Sorry to say, but I don't think this will be the last attack on French soil or for that matter, European soil. I think we will be seeing quite a few more in the next few weeks and months.

Posted by: Mischi | Nov 16 2015 0:56 utc | 78

What should happen:
With no prior ultimata or attempts at "negotiation" , the kingdom of Saudi Arabia should be seized in an airborne invasion, Ala Norway 1940.
The entire Royal family and their retainers should be put to the sword. Religious leaders should be rounded up and liquidated . All mosques and religious sites should be destroyed and the ground "sown with salt".
Economic sites should be taken over. The remaining civilian population should be driven into enclaves where they can be watched and minimally sustained.They should be denied any rights to leave or travel.

What will happen:
Initial breast beating and some action against "terrorists". Otherwise nothing..

Posted by: erik vanderlieb | Nov 16 2015 1:09 utc | 79

Remember that (IIRC) only Russia, Iran, Hezbollah, and Iraq have been permitted by the Syrian government to carry out military operations in Syria. Not the U.S., France, etc. So it is no more legal for the U.S., France, etc. to bomb militia facilities in Syria than in, say, Switzerland.

If some militia from Texas shoots and kills 300 people in Paris, do the French thereby have the right to bomb alleged militia sites in Texas?

The Eurofools thought that bringing in millions of young Middle Eastern men with cultural traditions of reproducing like rabbits, never even partially assimilating, and with militia elements that hold deep anti-Western resentments was a great idea.

They should accept responsibility for their foolishness and adjust their behavior accordingly. Since they're fools to begin with, they won't.

Posted by: blues | Nov 16 2015 1:11 utc | 80


These are sort of ridiculous questions.

No, they are not, the first question might be irrelevant, but not ridiculous. The second one is a valid question, worth to debate/speculate about.

There is the assumption in the first question that Paris has the leverage to respond, when the response, IF previously decided, might have been the reason for the planning of 13/11. Even if not, Paris response will be processed inside the Beltway, London, Berlin, and Brussels, and then announced as a "French" response to the world. Hollande is not De Gaulle, France is now, along with Germany, the US anchor in Eurostan for the Atlanticists exceptionalism, and as they have shown in Syria, Yemen, Libya, et al, they favor to be used as the attack dogs for the US/NATO.

The first question make sense if and only if France were an independent state, capable of structuring its own foreign policy. It is not, therefore, the question has no relevance in terms of a French response.

For the second question, we can expect a customary response 9/11 style, macho-man statements ("make no mistake"), threats of more interventions, increased surveillance, NSA/GCHQ free reign, and a fully developed policy of containment toward Russia's assertiveness, disguised as fighting "terrorism." What would that mean for Syria and the ME region as a whole, we don't know yet, but we will find out in the near future. France has been in a free-fall for years now, and the Atlanticists have been taking full advantage of erratic, idiotic Hollande, now they can use him further for their nefarious purposes, exploiting his multiplied political weaknesses to the max.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Nov 16 2015 1:29 utc | 81

I am wondering if Putin/Obama/UN cooperation isn't meant to preempt France calling on NATO ... since France is very much on the Removing-Assad-is-Job #1 bandwagon ... which I think will never get UN permission ...
If Obama and others can "get the job done" at Assad's "invitation" and the UN's blessing ... calling on NATO might just complicate matters.

I'm hopeful that as France demonstrates it's own "revenge" -- cooler and more constructive heads can collaborate ... "people say I'm a dreamer" ... I've thought that ISIS/DAESH might well be wanting to provoke a broader conflict by bringing in Hezbollah, a bigger Russian assault and NATO ... and then there's Turkey ... and I'd love nothing better than to see the Caliphate's border closed to resupply and blackmarket revenues.
If NATO attack were pending -- I wonder if ISIS will dig in to fight to the last soldier or simply evaporate in large numbers -- to fade into the Magreb or join the refugee throngs ... As we invaded Iraq, Saddam released his army ... Would the caliphate prefer to be destroyed by the crusaders to rise again in the future ... or die a slow death of many small defeats???

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 16 2015 1:31 utc | 82

How dare the French drag us all into war bombing Syria today. They would be better occupied training their police to respond to calls for emergency - Why did they leave four men in theRock Concert murdering people with gunfire for 2 hours before they raided the place?(From 10pm to midnight? according to the time line in our newspapers)

Posted by: Jocelyn Braddell | Nov 16 2015 1:52 utc | 83

“Would the caliphate prefer to be destroyed by the crusaders to rise again in the future ... or die a slow death of many small defeats???”

While using a noun crusader is OK with me maybe more suitable would be the Satanic cult. Nominally, the crusaders had believed in God. These modern ones (crusaders) do not believe in anything but oppression, looting and plundering therefore "they" are antithesis to God.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Nov 16 2015 2:10 utc | 84

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 15, 2015 6:57:57 PM | 77

Ceasefire? OK.

But what ground forces will attack ISIS and take the territory that they now hold? They will have to be backed by air support.

Will NATO countries work with Russian air support against ISIS? I would doubt that, but it will be interesting to see what they agree on.

And what about other places where ISIS has a foothold? Like Libya?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 16 2015 2:14 utc | 85

@ susansunflower @ 82

NATO already attacked . France does not have an independent foreign policy in Syria. No way. The French declared the perpetrators were ISIS before the attack was over and in less than 24 hours 10 French jets were on their way to attack targets 1000 miles away in Syria..Planningand preparing such an attack takes more than a day. All the while Putin is out of Russia and a virtual hostage in Erdgonistan.....

Posted by: psakiwacky | Nov 16 2015 2:22 utc | 86

Also, the French, as well as many other Europeans, need to ditch their useless party-based “proportional representation” and replace it with strategic simple score, party-free proportional representation.

The system they have now serves their mafia-elites while destroying them.

Posted by: blues | Nov 16 2015 2:25 utc | 87

@76 "So is France/NATo going to bomb the east while Russia bombs the west? What's the legality of this????"

If by "east" you mean "Iraq" then the legality of that action would depend upon the approval of the Iraqi government.
If by "east" you mean "Syria up near the Euphrates" then the legality of that action would depend upon the approval of the Syrian govt.

The Russians show how that works: they bomb ISIS inside Syria with Assad's express permission, but won't bomb inside Iraq unless/until the Iraqi's request it.

As Lavrov once said when asked about Russia air operations in Iraq: "We were not invited or asked," .... "We are a polite people, as you know, we don't come if we're not invited."

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 16 2015 2:30 utc | 88

You know we struck (bombed) an Isis Leader in Libya yesterday?
We can't seem to tell our ISIS from our Al-Qaeda
with whose authorization/blessing I don't know ...
guardian: Islamic State leader in Libya 'killed in US airstrike'
Pentagon says strike’s target was Iraqi national and al-Qaida operative
US airstrike was country’s first against Isis in Libya, Pentagon notes

If the efforts to oust Assad can be put on the back-burner ... and a ceasefire would help enormously... then some sort of coordinated "response" to ISIS can be discussed. France is an impediment to that and France has been targeting ISIS oil installations -- in other words -- SYRIAN oil installations ...
France really needs to be "brought into the fold" and have a come-to-Jesus moment about Assad.
The moment for that is coming.
I think a massive attack on ISIS would be disasterous mistake ... there will be vast slaughter of innocence and likely destruction of more heritage sites even if a slaughter of ISIS forces is "successful" (not to mention international blow-back) as well as a possible diaspora of ISIS soldiers across the middle east and into Europe.

(For another perspective, Juan Cole thinks Isis was trying -- al-Qaeda like wrt Madrid bombing -- to get France to withdraw from the anti-ISIS coalition ... who knows)

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 16 2015 2:40 utc | 89

What should happen: Nothing! Compared to what the west did to Belgrade, Fallujah, et. al, this is a tempest in a tea pot. What's the big deal? The real issue, hauling Clintons, Bush, Blair, Sarkozy et. al. to war crime court should have happened a decade ago, but didn't. What makes anyone think it would now?

What would happen: All the self proclaimed intellectuals would hoop it up, throw a few candlelight parties to fake their compassions just like the western political clowns voicing outrages in MSM, then go back to theorize on the ultimate fate of Assad ad nauseam. Meanwhile same politicians will be elected (?) in the west to carry on exactly the same policies that led to what happened in Paris last couple of days.

Just my very humble opinion.

Posted by: oleimmigrant | Nov 16 2015 2:41 utc | 90

Posted by: psakiwacky | Nov 15, 2015 9:22:04 PM | 86
France has been bombing in Syria for a while now -- the question after the Paris Attack was if France would call on ?Article 4? which is NATO's mutual aid agreement ... and that has not been done (yet), and (???) might be averted or complicated by involving the UN (which recognizes Assad as the leader of Syria, a member state).
France can call the Paris Attacks an "act of war" and potentially demand NATO military support in response ... but the latter has not happened yet.
I think ISIS wants to provoke Russia, Hezbollah and NATO and the Kurds (the Turkish demonstration bombing) ... and they (or someone pretending to be them) have promised more terror attacks in Europe etc...

Al arabiya: France strikes ISIS oil sites in Syria
As Russia is trying to stop "rebel" destruction/obstruction of the necessary supply/resupply routes ... someone needs to stop France from bombing oil installations and the USA from bombing electricity generating plants ..

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 16 2015 3:00 utc | 91

haha the black lives matter group have #fuckfrance trending on twitter

Posted by: bbbbb | Nov 16 2015 3:32 utc | 92

karlof1 @ 75: " we reside within an outrageously arrogant genocidal Outlaw Empire that wants to control the human activities on our planet and will kill its own citizens and others in whatever numbers are required to ensure the goal is attained."

@ 90: " Meanwhile same politicians will be elected (?) in the west to carry on exactly the same policies that led to what happened in Paris last couple of days."

Just a couple of the truths espoused in this latest thread. This latest event will drive France into the arms of the " business uber alles" camp, to insure "corporate global dominance" over the bulk of humanity.

"It's just business, get over it."

Posted by: ben | Nov 16 2015 3:37 utc | 93

Posted by: bbbbb | Nov 15, 2015 10:32:28 PM | 92

it's going to be a very long and likely tumultuous week ... between Thanksgiving, end of semester and the Christmas Holiday ... there's going to be a rush to avoid losing momentum ... At some point, someone is going to tell them "no" and I expect all hell to break loose. Eventually, they may realized that "regime change" at the administrative level is not some magic wand and "the new person" may or may not be an improvement ... I gather state legislatures and boards will be weighing in about the changes that are more than a matter of someone's resignation.
#fuckfrance -- yeah, that's a winner ... but I've already seen on-line resentment that France is eclipsing them ... sigh

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 16 2015 4:14 utc | 94

Atlantic: What Is France Doing in Syria?.
After a year of aerial sorties in Iraq, France began bombing in Syria in September 2015 .... short concise article.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 16 2015 4:19 utc | 95

@Susan Sunflower #91

If France decided to invoke Article 4 to compel NATO to invade Syria it wouldn't go over too well.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 16 2015 4:28 utc | 96

"We are all France. Apparently. Though we are never all Lebanon or Syria or Iraq for some reason. Or a long, long list of additional places."

Full article:

Posted by: ben | Nov 16 2015 4:33 utc | 97

I'm sorry; there's bad news about what's going to happen next. I posted about a week ago about the Kurds taking more territory in the north into areas where they've always been a minority & kicking out Arab schoolteachers to substitute only Kurdish=-speaking ones.
It appears the push is on to partition Syria in the North & the South. Better read it yourself. It's Finian Cunningham

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 16 2015 5:06 utc | 98

Paris massacre has taken place shortly before a major climate summit that was set to take place in France on Nov 30. The French government was expecting massive protests they alleged could potentially become violent, by activists opposed to globalization and energy austerity.

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 16 2015 5:17 utc | 99

I think that the heinous attack in Paris ha a simple explanation. "This is not just an attack on the French people, it is an attack on human decency and all things that we hold dear," says U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham.

We at M of A have no doubt in the sagacity and acumen of our Senator, but reporters in the field are trying to figure out what is it exactly that the Senator views as "human decency and all things that we hold dear". As the reports are trickling in, we can offer preliminary conclusion. First, "just an attack on the French people" would be just an attack, nothing to worry about per se, it is the HIDDEN agenda that is worrisome. Some salient points: (a) imposing socialized medicine, perhaps even worse than Obamacare, and thus much worse than slavery, (b) imposing gun control, (c) recognizing gay marriage and thus breaking millenia of Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, (d) sex education in school that broaches topics not related to the necessity of abstinence, and to top it off, (e) imposing Sharia in Nebraska, South Carolina etc.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 16 2015 5:41 utc | 100

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