Open Thread 2015-36
News & views ...
Posted by b on October 8, 2015 at 17:39 UTC | Permalink
next page »
In Major Escalation, US To Sail Warships Around China's Man-Made Islands In South Pacific.
Even as Ukraine still in slow cook setting and Syria starting steaming, just around the corner American exceptionalism in China deja vu....
The thing I like about Obama he love wars endless wars.
....A senior US official told the Financial Times that the ships would sail inside the 12-nautical mile zones that China claims as territory around some of the islands it has constructed in the Spratly chain. The official, who did not want to be named, said the manoeuvres were expected to start in the next two weeks.....
Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 8 2015 18:10 utc | 2
Posted by: nmb | Oct 8 2015 18:14 utc | 3
@2
Given we know the Outlaw Empire sponsors Daesh and its kin, and China recently absorbed quite a volley of terrorism sponsored by the usual suspect, I expect a shockingly strong response if the Outlaw Empire goes through with its planned provocation--extremely strong warnings followed by shots across the bows. Being the sponsor of Daesh automatically makes the Outlaw Empire a Terrorist (as if it wasn't before), and the Chinese have repeatedly said their installations are there to prevent terrorist activity in the shipping lanes, so Chinese action would be in line with its stated doctrine. Then the Outlaw Empire would be faced with a genuine Gulf of Tonkin it has no way of winning.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 8 2015 18:29 utc | 4
A brutal video shows undercover Israeli forces infiltrate a group of Palestinians protesters this afternoon near a checkpoint outside of Ramallah in the West Bank and open fire on the demonstrators.
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/10/undercover-palestinian-demonstration#sthash.GZl9YFYu
Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 8 2015 18:31 utc | 5
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/08/us-afghanistan-nato-idUSKCN0S20KN20151008
BRUSSELS - The United States and its NATO allies signaled a willingness on Thursday to consider slowing their withdrawal from Afghanistan, days after the Taliban's brief takeover of a provincial capital stoked concern about the strength of Afghan state force.
Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 8 2015 18:38 utc | 6
Syrizas Tsipras, sinks in further into treasonous adsurdity, by declaring that Greece needs more severe austerity to get out of austerity.
But I guess as long as he and the fake left has power, who gives a shit how many Greek people suffer and die.
Don't forget, that the Greeks state headed by Syriza, will be the in enforcers of the EU/banks caused and increasing poverty and depredations against the Greek people.
Posted by: tom | Oct 8 2015 18:55 utc | 7
Oh Man - so we have CIA and SAS and mercs on our payroll in Syria while we are droning the (?) targets with the Russians trying to clean the country out of terrorists, which we are sponsoring or leading?
And then we are trying to pull out of Afghanistan and just praying the Taliban isn't going to notice?
And then we are moving men, missiles and materials to surround Ukraine?
And getting ready to move men and materials into Turkey?
And now we ANNOUNCE we are going to trot a destroyer or carrier group within eyesight of the China's new island forts, where they have already pounced on one of our intelligence flights, and where they likely have their carrier destroyer missiles set?
Lest we forget, we are also droning other areas like Yemen...
Makes perfect sense to Xbox warriors.
Spreading peace and stability - yup...what could go wrong?
Posted by: BOG | Oct 8 2015 19:09 utc | 8
I guess I wonder what China sanctions might look like for us here in the US? Or Russia getting seriously pissed and stopping flights for Americans from the ISS or natgas to NATO (about time for that to bite hard anyway)? And we all know what happens if war or just a few key bombings really break out in KSA.
I need to lubricate my brain - it hurts...
Posted by: BOG | Oct 8 2015 19:20 utc | 9
You know, "terrorists" could totally bomb a natural gas compression station, reducing or even halting flow of natgas to NATO... asymmetrical response - a concept that is likely not resident in the brain trust of the Pentagram or Pennsylvania Avenooooooo....
Posted by: BOG | Oct 8 2015 19:27 utc | 10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQYEoYW2VlI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6wiWXw3voY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJLwqBfrcu8
Posted by: Hieronymus Merkin | Oct 8 2015 19:32 utc | 11
http://www.rferl.org/content/fitch-declares-ukraine-default-after-missed-eurobond-payment/27292178.html
Fitch Declares Ukraine In Default After Missed Eurobond Payment
Fitch declared the partial default on $500 million in eurobond obligations on October 6 after Ukraine did not make payment following a grace period. It then downgraded the country's main credit rating to "restricted default."
Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 8 2015 19:40 utc | 12
http://sputniknews.com/world/20151008/1028231635/iran-russia-isil-missile.html
Iranian defense ministry believes reports on "fallen Russian cruise missiles" are part of the intensified western propaganda war, according to a source.
Tehran has denied US reports that four of Russia's cruise missiles targeting ISIL actually fell to the ground in Iran, with the country's defense ministry calling the accusations "psychological war."
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20151008/1028231635/iran-russia-isil-missile.html#ixzz3o0XtaoYy
Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 8 2015 19:50 utc | 13
glen greenwalds latest.. A Short History of U.S. Bombing of Civilian Facilities
Posted by: james | Oct 8 2015 20:09 utc | 14
Open threads at MoA are always interesting. Good questions are often asked ... though rarely responded to. Still ...
There has been a recent question asked in the media about the use of Toyota pick-ups by the anti-Assad groups in Syria. It makes me wonder if somebody is simply upset by the fact that money is being spent by some unnamed group for something other than Fords, Chevys/GMCs, and Dodges?
Posted by: Rg an LG | Oct 8 2015 20:11 utc | 16
john helmers latest..
BURYING THE DOCTRINE OF ONE MORE HELICOPTER – US STRATEGY IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS DYING, ALONG WITH ITS AUTHORS, JIMMY CARTER AND ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI; VLADIMIR PUTIN, BASHAR AL-ASSAD GET TO DANCE ON THEIR GRAVES, DAVID BEN-GURION TOO
Posted by: james | Oct 8 2015 20:15 utc | 17
@16, more likely pissed that US war money is being spent on COTS equipment, not high-margin Federal contractor gear.
Posted by: Jonathan | Oct 8 2015 20:20 utc | 18
"There has been a recent question asked in the media about the use of Toyota pick-ups by the anti-Assad groups in Syria. It makes me wonder if somebody is simply upset by the fact that money is being spent by some unnamed group for something other than Fords, Chevys/GMCs, and Dodges?"
Man never created a better car than a Toyoto Hilux or Landcruiser, and the D.A.E.S.H. devil worshipers and their backers know this.
Posted by: Sufi | Oct 8 2015 20:20 utc | 19
Mutafa Barghouti say's a Palestinian uprising has begun. I hope that is not the case, although it would be quite understandable. Because 1/ The Palestinians have no leadership,Abbas is an Israeli contractor.2/ The Israelis probably want an uprising so they can fight "terrorism" 3/and most important of all it would appear they have no military means of conducting a successful campaign. One only has to look at the cost/benefit analysis of the last Gaza massacre. 7,000 rockets fired at Israel with just 2 yes two causing any damage. Most blew up the desert.
One rocket landed approx 1 mile away from Ben Gurion airport and stopped flights from there for a short time. The cost equation was over 2,000 dead Palestinians including 500 children with destruction estimated at 7 billion dollars. Professor Norman Finkelstein in his study on the conflict found that 20,000 Palestinian homes had been destroyed with just i Israeli home damaged. If I can make an analogy, if during the second world war the UK war cabinet had sent a 7,000 aircraft bomber force to Germany and 6,998 of those bombers had offloaded their bombs into the North sea, and in response the Germans destroyed a third of the UK. You get my point? The home made rockets have a simple design and are cheap to make, and a prolonged shut down of Ben Gurion airport could wreck the Israeli economy. The Palestinians need to go back to the drawing board and forget about the futile actions of half a dozen youths throwing rocks at heavily armoured vehicles and getting killed for doing so. If they have decided on an uprising, then it needs to inflict serious economic damage on the occupier. They need to get new leaders and prepare for EFFECTIVE military resistance.That is legitimate under International law. To do anything else is playing into Israels hands.
Posted by: harry law | Oct 8 2015 20:35 utc | 20
A little good news from the Yemen cauldron: Yemeni Army, Committees Destroy Saudi Warship
Posted by: Grieved | Oct 8 2015 20:45 utc | 21
@20
I have much sympathy for the Palestinians, but I agree that now isn't the right time for the reasons you cite and others. Preaching patience to them is very difficult, but patient they must be as the political climate is just beginning to change along with the regional balance of forces thanks to Russia's entry.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 8 2015 20:58 utc | 22
New update from Southfront, http://southfront.org/international-military-review-analysis-syria-oct-8-2015/
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 8 2015 21:05 utc | 23
The most recent Gaza war may have done little physical damage to Israel, but it did substantial damage to its moral standing.
Posted by: lysias | Oct 8 2015 21:22 utc | 24
@harry law Oct 8, #20
Please watch this. Tariq Ali talks to Dr Ghana Karmi, Palestinian author and academic, about the dilemma of the Palestinian State, the history of its formation and the potential future it faces.
teleSUR
http://multimedia.telesurtv.net/v/the...
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g98i1uWz1HU
Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 8 2015 21:27 utc | 25
Sorry, the top weblink 404...
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/audio/The-World-Today---The-tragedy-of-Palestine-20151008-0002.html
Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 8 2015 21:32 utc | 26
Again sorry, try to link to teleSUR for both video and audio and it don't work.
Anyway YouTube is OK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g98i1uWz1HU
Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 8 2015 21:38 utc | 27
Erdogan makes escape plans for himself and family?
http://www.todayszaman.com/national_twitter-faces-block-in-turkey-over-fuat-avnis-tweets-about-bilal-erdogan_400961.html
Posted by: bassalt | Oct 8 2015 22:25 utc | 28
@20 h law
Easy for you to say. Tha Palestinians have been abandoned by humanity.
Posted by: jfl | Oct 8 2015 22:34 utc | 29
Thanks Jack, I always learn something new and unexpected from Tariq Ali.
Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 8 2015 22:37 utc | 30
Jack Smith @2,
About that little provocation of sailing w/in the Chinese island's 12 mile limit: I don't think Obama's approved it yet. Do you think maybe these public releases are a little nudge?
"The Navy is preparing to send a surface ship inside the 12-nautical-mile territorial limit China claims for its man-made island chain, an action that could take place within days but awaits final approval from the Obama administration, according to military officials who spoke to Navy Times.
"Plans to send a warship through the contested space have been rumored since May, but three Pentagon officials who spoke to Navy Times on background to discuss future operations say Navy officials believe approval of the mission is imminent.
"If approved, it would be the first time since 2012 that the U.S. Navy has directly challenged China's claims to the islands' territorial limits."
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/10/07/china-territory-island-dispute-south-china-sea-navy/73525862/
Also US is having a conference to merge the navies of some of China's neighbors.
Posted by: Penelope | Oct 8 2015 22:41 utc | 31
@14 james
Note that Schwarz stops his recount deep inside the Bush XLIII timezone. He always seems to be a day late and a dollar short. Soft on Obama, soft on Israel ... The only guy I can take seriously at the Intercept - outside of Greenwald himself - is Lee Fang. I may be wrong.
Posted by: jfl | Oct 8 2015 22:44 utc | 32
jfl@29 "Easy for you to say. Tha Palestinians have been abandoned by humanity." It is not easy for me to say. But you are partly right. The 'Arc of Resistance' have not abandoned them, Iran,Iraq,Syria and Hezbollah support the Palestinians, unfortunately the Arab Dictators led by the Saudi perverts do not, these Dictators would sell their own mothers to stay in power or destroy fellow Arab counties to do so, think Libya,Syria and Yemen, so you are right the Palestinians should in the first instance get support from their immediate Arab neighbors, but they can never unite or are in hock to the US. Making their defeat by the West and the Palestinians demise inevitable.
Posted by: harry law | Oct 8 2015 22:51 utc | 33
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/08/us-usa-china-southchinasea-idUSKCN0S21D220151008
U.S. mulls sailing near disputed South China Sea islands: Pentagon official
The United States is considering sailing warships close to China’s artificial islands in the South China Sea to signal it does not recognize Chinese territorial claims over the area, a U.S. defense official said on Thursday.
The Financial Times newspaper cited a senior U.S. official as saying U.S. ships would sail within 12-nautical-mile zones that China claims as territory around islands it has built in the Spratly chain, within the next two weeks.
The Navy Times quoted U.S. officials as saying the action could take place "within days," but awaited final approval from the Obama administration.
Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 8 2015 23:29 utc | 34
@27 j smith @33 h law
Thanks for the link to youtube ... telesurtv.net ... I've never been able to watch their video, often unable even to find them ... but that one is great ... and points, perhaps to the 'solution' of the 'Palestinian problem' in Palestine. The de facto one-state solution and demographics. Wonder if the US/EU/NATO will invole r2p in support of the Palestinians against Isral ...
The Russians in Syria and the Russian-Israeli dialogue might better be read as the Russian-unified-Palestine dialogue?
Posted by: jfl | Oct 8 2015 23:30 utc | 35
@31 p
I think that is yet another instance of the US neocon/military taking over US foreign policy directly. The NPPL is no longer in demand even as a figurehead. Unless, of course, he stood up to them. Fat chance. He's got 470 days 'til payday, and he's counting them. Running down the clock in the 4th quarter.
Posted by: jfl | Oct 8 2015 23:37 utc | 36
@Penelope #31
About that little provocation of sailing w/in the Chinese island's 12 mile limit: I don't think Obama's approved it yet. Do you think maybe these public releases are a little nudge?
You wanna bet with me? I know Southeast Asia. Most of the dictators and oppositions still look favorably to American exceptionalism, except one man Dr. Mahathir Mohamad former Malaysia’s prime minister.
US (with Japan) dying to teach China lessons far worst than Japanese's occupation or Colonial's ruled. Abu Ghraib and Gitmo are pale in comparison to Unit 731 (below).
Pity China doesn't have in its arsenals like Russia. I can’t see President Xi back down either.
http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/page1.html
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/07/wwii-horror-files-unit-731/
http://jesus-is-savior.com/Disturbing%20Truths/unit_731-japanese_evils.htm
Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 8 2015 23:50 utc | 37
@ jfl #35
Me too have hell of a time searching for Empire File in Telesurtv hosted by Arby Martin until I bookmarks it in my Opera browser. I go there everyday. About Tariq Ali, he is really good!
Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 8 2015 23:59 utc | 38
“Moscow will soon start paying the price for its escalating military intervention in Syria in the form of reprisal attacks and casualties, the US defence secretary has warned, amid signs that Saudi Arabia and its Gulf allies are preparing to counter the Russian move.”
There were no plans to deploy the force to Turkey, though the Nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, suggested its existence alone should discourage future Russian or Syrian incursions into Turkish territory.
“We don’t have to deploy the Nato response force or the spearhead force to deliver deterrence,” Stoltenberg said. “The important thing is that any adversary of Nato will know that we are able to deploy.”
Saudi Arabia, a leading supporter of Syrian rebels fighting to overthrow Bashar al-Assad, was said by diplomats to be preparing to step up its support, having despaired of the US. Ministers from Qatar and Turkey, the Saudis’ partners in the fight against Assad, are holding talks on their next moves.
Riyadh’s anger over Vladimir Putin’s intervention was reflected in a statement by 55 leading clerics, including prominent Islamists, urging “true Muslims” to “give all moral, material, political and military” support to the fight against Assad’s army as well as Iranian and Russian forces.”
““Russia has created a Frankenstein in the region which it will not be able to control,” warned a senior Qatari source. “With the call to jihad things will change. Everyone will go to fight. Even Muslims who sit in bars. There are 1.5 billion Muslims. Imagine what will happen if 1% of them join.”
Seems that the AshHat is givin’ Riyadh the green light to me.
Posted by: wendy davis | Oct 9 2015 0:12 utc | 40
News you can use.
Citing anonymous MilSec sources, CNN reports that DC thinks that maybe a couple of Russian missiles could have gone astray, perhaps. This although they do not know where they might have struck, what if any damage that caused, or even their course. Both the Russians and Iranians have denied it. NPR is reasonably evenhanded on this occasion, cf. to PressTV.
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 9 2015 0:13 utc | 41
Great Satan is reeling both abroad as well as at home where in the cesspit that is Washington, D.C. the GOP cannot even elect its own leadership in the House of Representatives. Meanwhile, Hillary is trying to dupe the plebs by repackaging herself as the second coming of Eugene V. Debs (against the TPP and Keystone XL, for paid family leave, etc.) and Trump continues to rule the Republican roost. End times for U.S. global hegemony are here.
Posted by: Mike Maloney | Oct 9 2015 0:20 utc | 42
Two new books here, concerning the vicious economic assault on Russia during the 1990s, and the other concerning the recent Ukrainian "Revolution": https://archive.org/details/@altviewstv-fanclub
Sidenote: we all know of course what neo-liebralism did to Russia during the 1990s. At the end of the USSR, GDP was falling 2-3% per year. Bad enough, but by 1994 it was falliing 15% per year. It seems that only with Putin taming the thieves is Russia now recovering.
The counterpoint to the Russian example is Belarus, which rejected all neo-liberal "reform" and carried on, more or less, with socialism. It is today in totally comparable shape with former Soviet counties on both sides of the NATO-EU line, without having to suffer what really amounted to a genocide in the case of Russia.
Genocide: Russia and the New World Order
(October 1993-August 1998)
A Strategy for Economic Growth on the Threshold of the 21st CenturySERGEI GLAZYEV
TRANSLATED FROM THE RUSSIAN BY
RACHEL B. DOUGLAS"The rate of annual population loss has been more tha double the rate of loss during the period of Stalinist repression and mass famine in the first half of the 1930s... There has been nothing like this in the thousand-year history of Russia."
Sergei Glazyev on Russia in the 1990s Minister of Foreign Economic Relations in Boris Yeltsin's first cabinet, the only member of the Russian government to resign in protest of the abolition of the
Parliament and the Constitution in 1993, Doctor of Economics Sergei Glazyev looks at post-Soviet policy in Russia from a unique vantage-point. He is confident that Russia can recover, but only if the "reform" policies of the 1990s are rejected as the instrument of national catastrophe that they have been. Glazyev's book is must reading for an understanding of what went wrong, and what was wrong from the outset, after the Soviet Union broke up.
&&
(I believe this has been posted here)
Stanislav Byshok, Alexey Kochetkov
NeoNazis & Euromaidan: From Democracy to Dictatorship [Second edition]"Whoever is not jumping is a Moskal" is a chant that women and men of different ages who took to Kiev Independence Square in winter 2013-2014 repeated trying to get warm. They kept jumping and laughing, for nobody in the brave new world of the Ukrainian revolution under Stepan Banderas banner fancied gaining the character of a staunch enemy of Ukrainian statehood.
Mass demonstrations of angry citizens in Ukraine had objective reasons. This was a protest against ineffective and corrupt government, against police and bureaucratic abuse of power, against unclear and dead-end policies of the President and the Government.
All national libera on movements use the popular ideas and political sentiments that dominate the society as their positive manifesto.
Thus, exclusively left-wing ideologies were mainstream in the Russian Empire in 1917, radical Islamism was most popular in Arab countries during the Arab spring of 2012, whereas nationalism, also radical, turned mainstream in the Ukraine of 2013-2014.
The book describes the development of Ukraines nationalist groups since 1991 until present day. It focuses on the history of the parliamentary right-wing radical Svoboda party and the non-parliamentary Right Sector movement. The authors study the ideology, psychology and methods of political struggle of these structures.
The experts seek to answer the question: how did the radical neo-Nazi groups manage to become the key driving force behind the Ukrainian revolution?
wwww.kmbook.ru
Stanislav Byshok, Alexey Kochetkov, 2014
Alexei Semenov, 2014
Translation Anna E. Nikiforova, PhD in political science
----
Sorry, I hope no one feels this is spamming
There's a point made in this link,
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/09/american-allies-in-syria-their-shameful.html
that I wonder whether other commenters might have an opinion about.
The reasons one most often hears about why US training fails --I make this statement in full awareness that I'm unaware what the full nominator and denominator would be for other countries' training efforts-- are (a) corrupt horrendous illegitimate local government/proxies, and (b) mismatch at the ~operational level, i.e. training South Vietnamese to fight with plentiful artillery, armor and air-support.
Now, this cluborlov guy proposes an additional one, which I find unfamiliar enough for it to be "provocative," namely that even at the enlisted/NCO level, American practices are highly unsuited for the kind of fluid infantry-with-rpgs-supported-now-and-again-by-heavier-weapons kind of warfare current "small wars" seem to consist of. And unsuitability occurs in part *because*, rather than in spite of, very recent and protracted American combat experience at the enlisted/NCO level.
I've mucked up the summary enough, so let me cede the floor to the guy:
This might all sound like a farce, but it reflects the essence of training that's used in the US Army and which is being transferred to its allies. The emphasis is on physical capabilities, suppression of individual initiative, drilling in specific techniques and, of course, “teamwork.” As a result, when a fighter finds himself in a nonstandard situation, he becomes confused and cannot apply the skills in which he has been trained to the specific problem. He has been “honed” to react to situations that are consistent, homogeneous and artificially constructed.(...) The Iraqi experience, of which the Pentagon is so proud, trained them to patrol, to accompany convoys, and to man garrisons in the middle of the desert. Three decades of random abuse directed at weak opponents have accustomed the American army to rely on technological superiority, and it has largely lost the skills of close-range combat. Now even at Yarov the Ukrainian military and national guard are refusing to obey instructors, whom they see as complete and utter newbies.
Guy then goes on to describe an engagement in the 2008 Georgia war between the American-trained Georgian military and South Ossetian militias that is worth reading in full.
Would be grateful for any informed thoughts or opinions on this. (Or at least anything past, "well, look at his website man! Of course he thinks russkies great and we suck").
Just deleted all the 50 some comments "al manar" aka "Bill Kristol" aka the troll made over the last two day and blocked it.
[....] Such deletions renumber the comments and may lead to confusion, sorry for that.
If it was the former Chief in Staff to Dan Quayle, it's probably worth it.
Otherwise, why delete stupid text? Text is not a big "bandwidth" moocher.
Posted by: blues | Oct 9 2015 0:29 utc | 45
"The Navy is preparing to send a surface ship inside the 12-nautical-mile territorial limit China claims for its man-made island chain, an action that could take place within days but awaits final approval from the Obama administration, according to military officials who spoke to Navy Times.
"Plans to send a warship through the contested space have been rumored since May, but three Pentagon officials who spoke to Navy Times on background to discuss future operations say Navy officials believe approval of the mission is imminent."
Okay, so the Chinese blow up the U.S. ship. Then what? You planning to go shopping at Walmart? Better do it soon!
Posted by: blues | Oct 9 2015 0:40 utc | 46
blues @45,
For a slightly different definition of "bandwidth", stupidity and discord do make quite a bandwidth sink.
Posted by: Jonathan | Oct 9 2015 0:55 utc | 47
From the link in 12:
Fitch said the "distressed debt exchange" for $18 billion in eurobonds is designed to avoid default and will harm creditors.
Rival ratings agency Standard & Poor's similarly declared Ukraine in selective default last month, saying Kyiv's offer to creditors would include a 20 percent "haircut" in the money they are owed.
Fitch said it expects the debt exchange to be successful and it will upgrade Ukraine's credit rating shortly afterward.
-------------------
In my town, male haircuts seem to range from 10 to 30 dollars, but renowned artists in NYC, LA etc. can charge 20 times more. But if you crave an insanely expensive haircut, queue for bonds sold by the government of Ukraine. Ukraine ditched about 10% of expenses and 25% of revenue, by not paying pensions and other benefits in Crimea and rebel territories, by loosing taxes there, plus subsidies from Russia in return for the use of Crimea, and collapse of industries dependent on Russian markets or Russian parts. Those are back-of-the-envelope estimates. War is expensive, Ukrainians do it on a cheap, but they also have little money, and effects were, well, proportional.
Americans are notoriously stingy, happy to advise Europeans to help neighbors etc. EU eastern members hate Russia (except Hungary and Greece), but they hate spending on strangers much more. In the case of Poland, Ukrainians are not exactly strangers, but the familiarity does not breed friendly feeling on the level of furnishing aid (refugees and illegal workers would be tolerated much better) The western countries will give something, but overall, the mood is against throwing money into black holes abroad, of which there are many (to the dismay of American columnists). So Ukraine will remain broke or almost broke, and in few years, even with opposition outlawed the current rulers may be in trouble during the next elections. If oil will rebound somewhat, the bosom of Mother Russia may be even atractive https://www.pinterest.com/pin/294634000592861012/ .
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 9 2015 1:08 utc | 48
Claud at 44 --
Orlov has it on the ball, even if he is a little heavy on the post-apocalypse survivalism. His analysis of the weaknesses of the American style of war and military leadership (apparent since Nam) seems fair.
I think the underlying problem is the ever-growing robustness of the digital means of command and control centralizing authority and lessening autonomy is present through out the neo-liberal economy. Why not, when you can get masses of archived data, a real-time log of transactions and communications, and video-on-demand of the plant floor or foreign field? "SOP's" and their accompanying forms & records are designed to lessen discretion and impose uniformity.
And you're right, the glorious campaign of the 43rd Battalion, IV Brigade of the Georgian army in Ossetia is worth a read. First brackets are mine, the second Orlov's.
That is, all day long the battalion wandered around the forests and the mountains, discovered all on their own “a large defensive enemy position” (...no more than ten Ossetian irregulars who... [staged an] ambush, called it a day and quietly retreated), blasted it with artillery for an hour and a half, then marched to their goal, [Znaur] but then went back to square one because they were tired.
This was a battalion, he notes, that was specially trained by the U.S. for deployment in Iraq. He contrasts that with the Georgian II Brigade, with its Soviet-trained officers, which mounted a temporarily successful defensive line.
further to blues at 45
Al Manar was pretty surly, but I don't think he was as bad as "Myles," who got booted pretty rapidly. But a respectable bar needs a respectable bouncer, and so I never question a bartender while my tab is still open.
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 9 2015 1:23 utc | 49
@32 jfl.. thanks.. i think i am on the same page as you on that.. glenn is top notch, but the other writers don't cut it near as well..
Posted by: james | Oct 9 2015 1:24 utc | 50
the difference in the looks on the faces of these three is priceless: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151007/1028133675/turkey-russia-syria-confrontation.html
Transcript of Sec Def Carter's press conf today. He was in Brussels at a NATO meeting. Some of the statements were particularly nasty. Like this one:
"We have not and will not agree to cooperate with Russia so long as they continue to pursue this misguided strategy. We've seen increasingly unprofessional behavior from Russian forces. They violated Turkish airspace, which as all of us here made clear earlier this week, and strongly affirmed today here in Brussels, is NATO airspace.
They've shot cruise missiles from a ship in the Caspian Sea without warning. They've come within just a few miles of one of our unmanned aerial vehicles. They have initiated a joint ground offensive with the Syrian regime, shattering the facade that they're there to fight ISIL. This will have consequences for Russia itself, which is rightfully fearful of attack upon Russia. And I also expect that in coming days, the Russians will begin to suffer casualties in Syria."
------------
Also, this sounds to me like they're going to put more NATO ships in the Med:
"SEC. CARTER: We did discuss NATO's cooperation with the European Union. And in fact, Federica Mogherini joined us for lunch today. And I think there's widespread consensus in the alliance, and I think the secretary-general said as much, that NATO should be supportive of the EU-led effort. That includes a maritime dimension, which is very important, a maritime surveillance dimension that's very important. So there are ways in which military instruments can compliment the EU-led effort in the Mediterranean and to help the continent to deal with this really terrible and heart-wrenching refugee issue in a humane and practical way.
So there is a NATO view that it can compliment the EU-led mission in the Mediterranean. We're discussing exactly how we can do that, but I think the fundamental strategy is to align ourselves with the EU strategy and to bring military instruments where they can appropriately compliment that strategy to strengthen and reinforce it."
Posted by: gemini33 | Oct 9 2015 2:08 utc | 52
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 8, 2015 9:23:25 PM | 49
Orlov has it on the ball . . . His analysis of the weaknesses of the American style of war and military leadership (apparent since Nam) seems fair.
What specific knowledge or experience qualifies you to make this statement?
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 9 2015 2:12 utc | 53
Piotr Berman @48
You imply that Ukraine's financial condition means that they are an unreliable ally that would be reluctant or unable to fight. You also suggest that the current regime might be voted out.
Yes, the West 'won' a liability, but your comment is just wishful thinking for the foreseeable future as the USA/West: 1) will not want to hand Russia a victory by losing Ukraine, and 2) the Ukraine 'card' may still prove useful against Russia at some point in the future.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 9 2015 2:37 utc | 54
@harry law@20
Mutafa Barghouti say's a Palestinian uprising has begun.
That is wishful thinking.
I hope that is not the case, although it would be quite understandable.
Agreed.
Because 1/ The Palestinians have no leadership,Abbas is an Israeli contractor.
A corrupt to the core, sold-out clown, a pawn and a puppet.
2/ The Israelis probably want an uprising so they can fight "terrorism"
Not so easy. The Israelis have their hands full with the recent developments in the region, have decided to annex the Golan Heights, which won't go without a response, sooner or later, and are keeping close tabs on Hezbollah and Iran. A Palestinian uprising, though easy to quell for the Israelis, will force them to divert their attention to the occupation, and will cost them even more international support. BB N'yahoo angry look at the world was symbolic of how low Israel has fallen in the global arena.
3/and most important of all it would appear they have no military means of conducting a successful campaign. One only has to look at the cost/benefit analysis of the last Gaza massacre. 7,000 rockets fired at Israel with just 2 yes two causing any damage. Most blew up the desert.
The Israeli-Palestinian military ratio is, this late into the game, rather irrelevant. Palestinians cannot procure any military means, the PLO not different than butcher Sharon's SLA, an army of occupation. Palestinian resistance will have to be channeled differently, a mass movement more similar to SA's Soweto, with spontaneous, sustained uprisings that will cost hundreds, thousands of lives, combined with an international diplomatic offensive that will denounce the occupation and cut to shreds whatever is left of Israel's credibility as "the only democracy (sic!) in the ME."
Not that military attacks on the Israelis are useless, the Palestinians need to use all forms of struggle, peaceful and violent, mass movements and lone-wolf attacks, spontaneous and planned uprisings, and the new geopolitical context unfolding in the ME can provide fertile soil for a new resistance push, but given the gigantic disproportion between the two, the Palestinian struggle, if it is to succeed, should be guided by Napoleon's dictum, "spirit is to the materiel as three is to one." That's how the SAs ended white minority domination, not by military means, though military resistance was widely used.
The SA struggle and the victory over the white minority was ultimately defined by external events, which might be the case with the Palestinians. The SA white army defeat at the hands of the Cubans at the tank battle of Cuito-Canavale (Angola), sealed the fate of the SA regime. Similar developments, with different historical twists, no doubt, can be expected from the tectonic moves the Russian intervention in Syria is going to signify for the Levant and the ME in general.
Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 9 2015 2:52 utc | 55
CORRECTION
It is Cuito Cuanavale, not Cuito-Canavale...it's been quite a while...
Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 9 2015 3:54 utc | 56
@43 guest
I think somebody first posted HOW HARVARD LOST RUSSIA here. It's the 'shocking' tale of the wall street/harvard square gangster condominium - 'smartest guys in the room' - making a killing while killing Russia.
Posted by: jfl | Oct 9 2015 4:40 utc | 57
b, thanks for banning that nuisance -- in the previous thread. In future, maybe you could consider leaving the numbering of the comments as they were, possibly with a "deleted" in place of the deleted comment. It would make it easier for latecomers to follow the conversation.
So what does this newly planned provocation by the US against China around those islands mean?
Surely they are not prodding China to join the coalition in Syria?
Posted by: NotMe | Oct 9 2015 4:59 utc | 59
When I heard that MSF Doctors Without Borders was bombed by Amerikka on Kunduz Hospital, immediately worried someone I know and not personally - Dr. Harkin may be hurt. I was overjoyed when Amy Goodman, Democracy Now interviewed him on the phone.
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/10/5/mission_accomplished_redux_1_year_after
Hawkin a qualified physician fluent in several languages.....Dr. Wee Teck Young earns no income, has no more personal belongings (except his guitar) than will fill a duffel bag and his family, for all intents and purposes, has been the small community of young Afghan Peace Volunteers ( APVs ) with whom he has shared quarters nearly identical to those of Afghan villagers.. He shuns his official title, preferring “Hakim,” the name bestowed on him after he had served as a public health doctor among refugees on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
He was awarded “International Pfeffer Peace Prize” in 2012 but the Amerikka consulate in Singapore refusing him a visa to enter the United States to received the prize....."
http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151007/1028127459.html
Afghan Peace Volunteers Co-Founder Dr. Hakim claims that the United States will unlikely be charged with war crimes for the Saturday’s bombing of a hospital in Kunduz......
http://www.countercurrents.org/hakim110213.htm
...But Singapore is also responsible because it is one of the fifty U.S. /NATO (the North Atlantic Treaty Organization ) coalition countries working with the corrupt Afghan government (rated the most corrupt country in 2012)......
Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 9 2015 5:03 utc | 60
Austerity, Saudi-style, from a leaked secret memo:
Posted by: Vintage Red | Oct 9 2015 5:13 utc | 61
@Lone Wolf
Just a small point. On Cuito Canavale---South Africa withdrew, as they didn't take the Cubans seriously, which was probably what the Cubans had hoped for, as suggested by their not fighting back, but rather behaving somewhat silly and taking disproportionate casualties. South Africa's primary motivation for withdrawal was stretched logistics. Cuba was building a military airport, from which they soon controlled Namibia's skies, and the SA leadership was unaware until after the Cubans began flying over Namibia (then SW Africa, a nominal protectorate of South Africa). The Cuban air dominance is what made PW Botha call for negotiations. The battle at Cuito Canavale itself would not have been cause for the effective surrender, even had South Africa unambiguously lost the battle.
Posted by: Johan Meyer | Oct 9 2015 5:48 utc | 62
You can't make this shit up
World Bank sees migration as engine of global economic growth
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-10/09/c_134694087.htm
I wonder if it ever occurs to any of them World Bank folk to ask just why are all those folks migrating? Isn't the real economic growth being realized in the MIC world? Maybe all those migrants can be hired to build cheaper war machines to terrorize more of their previous countrymen to force more migration.....a self licking ice cream cone.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 9 2015 6:36 utc | 64
"US & Germany are withdrawing the Patriot rockets"
http://www.todayszaman.com/anasayfa_us-germany-to-withdraw-patriot-missiles-from-turkey_396671.html
Was this the reason that Erdogan allowed the syrian refugees to "flee" to Europe. It's also a sign that NATO support for Erdogan is shrinking. I still think Erdogan is "on its way out".
Posted by: Willy2 | Oct 9 2015 7:14 utc | 65
http://www.defense.gov/News/Special-Reports/0814_Inherent-Resolve
Cost of Operations
As of Aug. 31, 2015, the total cost of operations related to ISIL since kinetic operations started on Aug. 8, 2014, is $3.87 billion and the average daily cost is $9.9 million for 389 days of operations. A further breakdown of cost associated with the operations is here.
Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 9 2015 7:57 utc | 66
Wary of Escalation, the U.S. Is Waiting Out Putin’s Moves
The New York Times
By PETER BAKER
The layers of complexity are hard to unravel. In Iraq, the United States finds itself on the same side as Iran in fighting the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, but on opposite sides in Syria over the fate of President Bashar al-Assad, an ally of Tehran whom Mr. Obama has demanded step down. The United States has resisted military action against Mr. Assad, pressing its allies to focus instead on the Islamic State inside Syria, even as Sunni Arab states like Saudi Arabia want to topple the government.
Iran’s foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, made the case that the United States is in a box of its own creation. “You have allies who do not want to undercut ISIS because it will strengthen the center government,” he told reporters while in New York for the United Nations session. “The U.S. is not capable of fighting ISIS because of the concerns its allies have that this will strengthen a government they find unacceptable.”
Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 9 2015 8:06 utc | 67
NATO's current position on Syria borders on absurd, a fact not even the mainstream media can cover up. The Guardian article previously mentioned is a case in point. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/08/russia-pay-price-syrian-airstrikes-ashton-carter-us-defence-secretary
After quoting Carter and Stoltenberg's stern warnings over Russian "incursions" of Turkey's border, it is reported: "Saudi Arabia continues to insist that Assad must go, and cannot be part of any political transition... It is expected to boost its financial aid to rebel groups and deliver weapons via the border with Turkey."
Later, Carter is quoted again: “They (Russia) have initiated a joint ground offensive with the Syrian regime, shattering the facade that they are there to fight Isil [Isis],” Why does Carter and apparently the Guardian journalist not know the Russian policy, as articulated by Putin at the UN was clearly to support Assad. What facade has been shattered? What is he talking about? He then complains a cruise missile passed within miles of a US drone flying illegally in Syrian airspace.
The article closes with three paragraphs of information from the ridiculous and suddenly ubiquitous "Syrian Observatory of Human Rights".
The cognitive dissonance is too apparent, and although the heavy spin in the West's media will win over the inattentive, the upcoming appeal to international law and the UN charter through the Security Council cannot be convincingly challenged by the compromised NATO coalition. They are freaking out over the "incursions" across the Turkish border, already being labelled "Russian aggression", while admitting the exact same border hosts the delivery of money and weapons into Syria in support of terrorist armies. It's too obvious.
Posted by: jayc | Oct 9 2015 8:36 utc | 68
@ 62 Just a small point. The significance of Cuito Canavale is not only it being a Cuban military victory over the army of Apartheid South Africa but it smashed the myth of 'white' military invincibility that was a foundation of white supremacist ideology in Africa. And of course in European settler-colonial projects (not least of which was in what Jose Marti called Our America).
start at minute 31:47 with the scene of Nelson Mandela asking Fidel, one African the other American, one 'black' the other 'white,' "when are you coming to South Africa?"
Cuito Canavale and Beautiful Cuba
to understand, as explained by the historian Piero Gleijeses, the power and significance of Cuito Canavale and the overall impact of Cuban sacrifices in Africa - in that continents struggles to rid itself of the parasitic scourges of European colonialism and white supremacy in the revolutionary upheavals now labeled anti-colonial struggle of the 1960s, 70s, and 80s.
I could have read you wrong my friend but your qualifications of Cuban military victory at Cuito Canavale reminded me of a lecture many years ago in which the professor tried to account for the shocking defeat of a 'white' army of the Kingdom of Italy by a 'black' army of the Empire of Ethiopia at the battle of Adwa in 1896 by stating that Italy "was not really a great European power" so it did not really amount to much! Recall that this defeat was just eleven years after the Berlin Conference, in which European powers divided the African continent into colonial territories on the basis of white superiority and black inferiority. The March 4, 1896 New York Times ran – as it does today – a headline bemoaning “Italy’s Terrible Defeat.” The significance of this so-called “insignificant” victory was that it represented a permanent victory and the colonized subjects of European colonial empires in Africa, the Americas and Asia understood it as the beginning of the end.
As the scholar scholar Molefe Asante explains:
‘’Ethiopia became emblematic of African valour and resistance, the bastion of prestige and hope to thousands of Africans who were experiencing the full shock of European conquest and were beginning to search for an answer to the myth of African inferiority.’’
It also reminded me of how the spirit of Spartacus lived in the enslaved flesh of Toussaint l’Overture, who led the first nation-wide successful slave rebellion in the Americas by defeating French and English forces sent to conquer the island of St. Domingue from 1793-1798, and of Jean-Jacques Dessalines who vanquished the French forces of Napoleon Bonaparte at the Battle of Vertieres in 1803. St. Domingue was renamed 'Haiti' alluding to its indigenous Arawak name (before Cristoforo Colombo, the mercenary from Genoa who was pimped out by the Castilian fundamentalist Christians, opened up one of humanities darkest chapters of genocide by mass murdering the Arawak). It was the America's second republic and the first independent nation in Latin America and the Caribbean.
The United States of America, was the first colonial society to free itself from European colonial power in 1783 but trembled at the prospects that slaves had taken the Enlightenment mantle of "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" seriously and established in 1804 a republic in Haiti as a "threat" that could spread like a virus (even before that despotic Henry Kissinger used it as an analogy for the rise of nationalist movements in Latin America). The simple existence of a formerly slave colony as an independent republic of Haiti with free citizens shook the U.S. to its very core because it was a slave-republic based on white supremacy. So, the US of A under the planter and slave-holder President Thomas Jefferson began a trade embargo and policy of “isolation” (echo of todays sanctions-as-regime-change policy) and refused to recognize Haiti as a sovereign nation until half a century later in 1862!
This same US of A would unflinchingly try to isolate and destroy Cuba after it gained its sovereignty from being a plaything of the mafia and local despots. It would go on to embrace the white supremacist South African government’s fight against Cuba, Angola and the African National Congress of Nelson Mandela and actively recruit, train, fund and supply ‘white nationalist’ terrorists (the jihadi terrorists of today) in places like Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) to face off-against liberation front leaders such as Robert Mugabe and ZANU-PF, who are now demonized like Putin as 'despots' and personifications of 'evil' (surprise!).
The iconic battle of Cuito Canavale was one of those moments that the Empire was seen in its beastly nakedness in Africa and the Americas and a moment that signified the beginning of the end.
Thank you for the memories.
~ Salu’
Posted by: thirsty | Oct 9 2015 8:40 utc | 69
@thirsty
The Cubans had already shattered the psychological hold on blacks prior to Cuito---many of the soldiers they brought were black Cubans. Moreover, the SA forces included a large number of Zulus (whose citizenship status was effectively South African, rather than Bantustan). Rhodesia's white regime army was majority black. The psychological hold was more a case of white regime power, rather than white soldier power. And many of the SA white soldiers were quite poor---Kwashiorkor among whites in SA was only defeated in 1969; apartheid isn't that easy to enforce in a rural setting, and many of the poor were from more rural areas; they certainly didn't have any illusions of invincibility, and such an apparent setback that deep in Angola would hardly have registered---most of the fighters on behalf of SA, USA and China belonged to Jonas Savimbi's UNITA. The SA white elite is about 10 percent of the SA white population.
As to Mugabe, he became demonised mainly on account of his disruption of the neoliberal game, by spending all of Zimbabwe's foreign reserves on a quick IMF debt payment. I don't see any justification for the guKurahundi (back when he was acceptable, and the west was wooing Zimbabwe and Bangladesh from North Korea). And his land redistribution system was bad in many of the same ways as the "white highlands" land redistribution was bad in Kenya---powerful families ended up with much of the land, and land shortage remained a problem among the land hungry (giKuyu at the expense of local Maa speakers---they've since largely intermarried in that locale; both baShona and amaNdebele), although it seems that that problem is being addressed in Zimbabwe.
Posted by: Johan Meyer | Oct 9 2015 9:24 utc | 70
12
Bingo! Exactly the Kiev default I predicted yesterday, and the reason PMs spiked! If you really want to understand the Marcos-Khashogi-Bush 'turn looted gold into defaulting but bailed out junk bonds' "scheme", as they call these public funds swindles in USArya, here: USArya Is Pure Junk!
Posted by: chipnikh | Oct 9 2015 9:47 utc | 71
Senior Iranian general killed by Islamic State in Syria - Tehran
Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 9 2015 11:45 utc | 72
Employer cuts off Indian woman’s arm, India protests
The tough stance by the Indian authorities came days after the right hand of Kasturi Munirathinam, a 58-year-old woman from the southern Indian city of Chennai, was chopped off by her Saudi employer when she tried to escape reported abuse.“When she tried to escape the harassment and torture, her right hand was chopped off by the woman employer. She fell down and sustained serious spinal injuries,” Indian media outlets quoted Munirathinam’s sister as saying.
Munirathinam’s family members said she has been hospitalized in Riyadh and “is in critical condition.”
According to her family, she was denied food and was being tortured by her Saudi employer.
Saudi authorities have not commented on the incident yet.
Hundreds of men and women from India work as domestic servants and laborers in Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia has beheaded a number of individuals of different nationalities, including from Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, the Philippines and Indonesia, over the past few years.
On April 16, Saudi Arabia decapitated an Indonesian female domestic worker just two days after executing another woman from the Southeast Asian country.
People wonder why Da'esh are such brutes? Like father like son.
Posted by: jfl | Oct 9 2015 12:02 utc | 73
Rufus magister at 49--
Re your point here
I think the underlying problem is the ever-growing robustness of the digital means of command and control centralizing authority and lessening autonomy is present through out the neo-liberal economy. Why not, when you can get masses of archived data, a real-time log of transactions and communications, and video-on-demand of the plant floor or foreign field? "SOP's" and their accompanying forms & records are designed to lessen discretion and impose uniformity.
not only do I think you're probably exactly on the money, but also you simply *have* to read Andrew Cockburn's "Kill Chain" (http://www.amazon.com/Kill-Chain-Rise-High-Tech-Assassins/dp/0805099263/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444404490&sr=8-1&keywords=kill+chain) if you haven't.
There's masses in that book beyond "simply" drones, but the part that's relevant here is that he details the insane degree to which satellite relays, better data compression, etc., actually allows all these layers of flag-rank officers from Doha to Florida to micromanage, literally sitting in an office looking at flat-screens, the activities not only of drones, but of, say, a Ranger platoon on an actual mission in Afghanistan, to the point that successive micro-delays in transmission can have literally fatal effects. Remember --I say "remember"--I mean, you know about those horror stories in Vietnam about how all these promotion-hungry officers from regiment on up would be circling above the jungle trying to direct the fight of a single company? Well, from Kill Chain I got the impression that we now have something like that on steroids.
But let me be useful for a minute. On the subject of too many mid-to-upper officer-managers with too little to do (something that certainly sounds familiar to civilians like me in the present economy) check out, if you haven't, this report on "brass bloat" in today's US military:
http://pogoblog.typepad.com/pogo/2011/11/todays-military-the-most-top-heavy-force-in-us-history.html
It's especially infuriating given how, even now-as-in-last-week, the first targets of defense budget cuts in terms of personnel are invariably the lower ranks (not to mention their benefits).
Re Nato and Turke:Last night on jeopardy they declared Nato recently expanded its language alphabets by adding a new language.What alphabet(s)were added besides the Latin alphabet?
I said to myself,Cyrillic and Greek,then I thought what what about Turkic?
So I switched to Cyrillic and Turkic.
But it turned out it was the Greek alphabet.(and Cyrillic)
Figures,let diss the Muslims.No inclusion there huh?
And as Lysias says,the image of Israel is decayed with every passing atrocity towards their captive Palestinian untermenschen.
Posted by: dahoit | Oct 9 2015 16:18 utc | 75
@Johan Meyer@62
The Cuban air dominance is what made PW Botha call for negotiations. The battle at Cuito Canavale itself would not have been cause for the effective surrender, even had South Africa unambiguously lost the battle.
There are plenty of versions about this battle from both sides, and your point deserves consideration. My intention going down memory lane is to bring attention to the fact that SA's liberation was influenced by external events, and a similar situation could evolve out of the developments around Palestine.
Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 9 2015 16:22 utc | 76
@thirsty
Sorry, I think we are talking at cross-purposes. I read psychological impact on soldiers; you probably had in mind psychological impact on black societies as a whole.
@Lone Wolf
Agreed, thus minor quibble.
The societal psychology has already changed, courtesy of Hezbollah. Perhaps an analogy to the South African experience: Russia in a similar role alongside Iran; Hezbollah in Cuba's role. Hamas in the role of the Pan-Africanist Party, and PLO as ANC. PLO is helping Hezb and Russia, albeit on a very small scale, comparable to Umkhonto we Sizwe. Israel and Turkey as SA and Rhodesia. Syria as Angola; jihadists as UNITA. While Israel and Turkey are not subject to deliberate efforts at regime change, intentions are not necessarily the most important factor in deciding outcomes.
Posted by: Johan Meyer | Oct 9 2015 17:03 utc | 77
@Claud@74
Thanks for a very informative post, the book recommendation, and the link to the blog. Kudos!
Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 9 2015 17:07 utc | 78
@Johan Meyer@77
My assumption about Palestine is that the occupation is so total and complete, and I mean from inside the Palestinian establishment, that only external events will shock the Palestinians into a drive for liberation. The little resistance there is has been dented, and has to fight both against the Israelis and the PLO goons, a very uphill battle. Hopefully the earthquake Russians have unfolded in Syria will open up an opportunity for the Palestinians to change their predicament.
Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 9 2015 17:49 utc | 79
@Lone Wolf 79
PLO has many goons, but I'm sure you will find decent people in the organization. The ANC also had its fair share of thugs (Winnie Mandela as a particularly nasty example), and had been in secret negotiations with the Apartheid leadership since the late 70s. The PLO has sent fighters to Syria to help out there. In some respects, the Hamas/PLO fight is comparable to the ANC/PAC fight. The PLO is/was given some support by neighbouring countries more for keeping their domestic populations happy than for the purpose of removing Israel; I suspect the same was true of the ANC. Nation state regimes usually collapse because of self-inflicted wounds, or because of actions of other nation states, as amplified by self-inflicted wounds. The neoliberal policy of the Apartheid government, especially from the late 70s, weakened support for the National Party, albeit with a US style shift to the right on the part of the poor (west Transvaal were probably most, though I haven't studied the geographical concentration of Conservative Party support).
So I agree roughly with the prognosis, but I think that that is the norm, rather than the exception. I think the reason why so many nominally non-colonial governments fell to communist and other insurgencies is precisely because the governments in question had inflicted grievous wounds upon themselves, often to suck up to the US, or occasionally other powers. Colonial systems were generally thinly protected scams, especially after Europe's demographic transition.
Posted by: Johan Meyer | Oct 9 2015 18:03 utc | 80
@Lone Wolf
Another matter is that the PLO generally seems to have had a very foolish view of attacking Israel, when it was still active. Most of their attacks seemed to be aimed at terrorising the population, rather than undermining Israel's infrastructure. Ditto Hamas. Terrorism is usually a weapon of the strong, and it rarely works in favour of the weak---even the Taliban prefers to attack convoys. Revenge bombing of Kibbutzim seems foolish, compared to say attacks on civilian and military airports, major highways, and the like. The same is true of Hezbollah. I'd imagine that if the Syrian army had destroyed some border roads early during the insurgency, they'd be shooting down supply aircraft, and making the insurgency expensive for its sponsors.
Posted by: Johan Meyer | Oct 9 2015 18:18 utc | 81
@Johan Meyer@80 & 81
PLO has many goons, but I'm sure you will find decent people in the organization.
Agreed. There are many different factions around the main one, the historical leadership around Arafat, of which Abbas might be the last one. PLO needs to change direction and leadership, it needs new blood and new strategies to defeat the Israelis.
Another matter is that the PLO generally seems to have had a very foolish view of attacking Israel, when it was still active.
True, and they wasted so much political capital on a dead-end "strategy"? Hamas is a different story, as you might know they were created by the zionazis to erode support for the PLO. In both cases, PLO and Hamas, infiltration by the zionazis intel was (is) very deep, and I wonder if many of the counterproductive actions carried out by them were masterminded by Israel, same way the FBI creates "terrorists" with young Muslim kids. Hezbollah is a different ballgame, and I disagree with you on that one. Hezbollah is a successful experience of resistance, from rag-tag guerrillas to a full-fledged army, that with 75 T-55 and T-72 tanks "donated" by Syria (read Russia) for the creation of their first armored division, Hezbollah, as predicted by yours truly when they joined the fray in Syria, went to become a battle-hardened, combat-experienced, modern army, a fierce enemy for the zionazis to reckon with.
Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 9 2015 20:02 utc | 82
@Lone Wolf
I wasn't commenting on the fighting ability of Hezbollah, nor PLO nor Hamas, but rather their fighting practices. Hezb already was battle hardened. Even in Syria, what little is visible from here suggests much effort at destruction through arms over denial of logistics (the 'rebels' are mercs, and thus should have substantial supply trains---just in time inventory tends to inhibit scavenging for the most part).
Posted by: Johan Meyer | Oct 9 2015 20:33 utc | 83
Claud @44 and @74
Orlov is far from proving his conjecture. He cites few examples. He doesn't address obvious variables that could negatively affect his conjecture and he plays up the few that are supportive. For example, he derides 'elite' units that were trained by the US but he doesn't give details like how they were defeated (Ukrainian military command seems to be a joke). He uses faulty propagandized info (related to USA training of 'moderate rebels'; see below) and doesn't list sources.
And just how important is soldier initiative on today's battlefield anyway? Yeah, a spotter may not be a great warrior but those smart bombs/missiles that he/she directs to a target can be decisive. The importance of training that instills 'initiative' will vary by type of unit.
I think it would be best to hear from someone that is familiar with military training. I suspected that Rufus did not have such knowledge or experience, which is why I challenged him @53. His answer @63 confirmed by suspicion.
Rufus' conjecture linking work-life and military service is even more strained than Orlov's conjecture. Do centralized economic structures have a stronger effect on soldier initiative than the much more forceful hierarchy of the chain of command? For all I (and rufus himself) know, centralized structures may make it easier for people to join and be effective in the military!?!
Lastly, Rufus' criticism of al manar is ironic given that one of al manar's issues was the 'armchair generals' that make assertions with little knowledge of military affairs.
If you are interested in a more authoritative and detailed answer to your question, you might ask at a site with a military focus.
=
Note
Orlev cites the poor record of US anti-ISIS training program. In doing so he is attempting to use US covert ops and propaganda against the US. This extents beyond sloppy analysis to propaganda.
Most analysts, as well as Russia, seem to agree that most of the rebels and militants are working together in some way and that 'moderate rebels' are a convenient device for supporting extremists. When Orlov bemoans the training of 'moderate rebels' he conveniently ignores this.
As for soldier initiative, extremists like ISIS seems have that in abundance. And those who were initially 'trained' by the US/US allies will no doubt get more training from the extremists.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 9 2015 20:48 utc | 84
Jackrabbit @84
From my own background, which is vaguely similar to Orlov's, I do believe that he has a very solid background in many areas. However, his article about US anti-ISIS training of "rebels" looks to be unusually far out of his usual orbit. I'm guessing this is stuff he heard while talking with people at some bar or something. I've often encountered people with notions that sound reasonable, but which actually are not.
Most of Orlov's information appears to be much more rooted in his personal expertise and experience.
Posted by: blues | Oct 9 2015 22:12 utc | 85
blues @85
I think you're right blues. He's stretching here. It might sound plausible but it would require a lot more work to confirm what truth, if any, there is. I think he got a bit carried away (as some have) with the excitement of the Russian Syrian operations.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 9 2015 23:26 utc | 86
I like to think myself well-informed about military affairs, as any citizen of a putative democracy needs to be. Pics of Obama monitoring the OBL raid in real time suggested to me that micro-management by higher command might be a problem.
I am fairly well read in military history (I liked McNeill's Pursuit of Power and Littwak's Coup de'Etat: A Practical Handbook especially) and have family who are both active and retired military. I was at one point scheduled to take the Navy ROTC physical, but I thought of better means of funding college. Being politically active since the early 80's is an incentive to keep up on these topics.
So unless you're sporting a combat infantry badge or lots of brass and braid, cut the b.s. We're all just citizens trying to figure out the murky ways and means of the power wielded by our elected and paid public officials and civil servants.
Orlov's analysis is consistent with much that I have seen on the topic.
Perhaps you might consider this item from TomDispatch, an authoritative progressive website on military and international affairs, as evidence, Judith Coburn on Flunking Counterinsurgency 101. Though I have it bookmarked (don't you?), I typically drop by TD when Counterpunch re-posts something good.
The use of high profile, aggressive tactics like round-ups, constant patrolling, indiscriminate firepower, and the abuse of prisoners has alienated civilians in Iraq just as such tactics did in South Vietnam. When American soldiers in Iraq complain -- just as they did in Vietnam -- that the enemy "melts" away or that they're "hiding" among civilians, it's because, on some very basic level, they and their commanders just don't get how a guerrilla war actually works.
Or how about American Military History: 1902-1996, by Maurice Matloff? See pp. 346-7.
Marked by ambiguous military objectives, defensive strategy, lack of tactical initiative, ponderous tactics, and untidy command arrangements, the struggle in Vietnam seemed to violated most of the time-honored principles of war.
And think back, kids, about every clip ever shown on MSM -- it's guys ridin' round in Humvees and MRAP's, supply convoys crossing the desert, young kids and the working poor from the sticks shootin' at stuff. They'll occasionally stop, wander around, maybe bust a few doors in. And when shit happens, shoot first, ask questions later (maybe), and don't spare the munitions.
And so since we can get these tactics to work, or at least, not fail disastrously, we train others in them. But as our clients lack the substantial resources this demands, they fail.
And for what it's worth, some in the business are worried about it. See The Army Gropes Toward A Cultural Revolution.
A new generation of generals is rising in the Army. It’s a generation forced to get creative by more than a decade of ugly unconventional conflicts. It’s a generation disillusioned by the mistakes of superiors, military and civilian alike. It’s a generation willing to take on the Army’s bureaucratic culture of top-down management, which dates back to Elihu Root becoming Secretary of War in 1899.
Now, you could try to show Orlov wrong with a little independent research of your own, instead of pissing and moaning about him as in over his head. What evidence can you produce then of effective training in appropriate arms and tactics often provided by the Americans? Or of robust combat initiative by company and battalion commanders in U.S.-trained forces?
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 10 2015 2:25 utc | 87
@Johan Meyer@83
I wasn't commenting on the fighting ability of Hezbollah, nor PLO nor Hamas, but rather their fighting practices.
Well, Johan, that wasn't clear from your posts. In any event, I have made my points re: Palestine vis-a-vis SA journey for liberation. I thank you for the interaction. See you around.
Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 10 2015 4:24 utc | 88
If elements of the military were seriously questioning or objecting to our present military aggressiveness (or illegal wars), etc, how wd we know about it? What signs visible to civilians, and where?
Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10 2015 5:45 utc | 89
Willy2 @65
The announcement that the Patriots wd be removed occurred almost imm'y after the initial nuke deal w Iran & long before it ran the gauntlet in US. Announcement was by all 3 NATO countries that had them on Turkey's border-- supposedly not til the end of their commitment. But in fact the command & control ship for them left at once. It is one of the bulwarks of my belief that Russia was invited in by the US to eradicate ISIS. The US military w its neocon elements couldn't be trusted to take down all the terrorists while leaving Syria and the Assad govt standing.
Regarding the "immigration crisis" it was IMO a psyop by US to move EU population from "the Russians are coming" to "thank God the Russians are here" w regard to Syria. Served admirably to muddy the waters. US got Turkey to open the camps & the EU to forget all normal procedures in dealing w migrants. It's all set out in this Starikov video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHqFkOenpvY
Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10 2015 6:36 utc | 90
Jack Smith @ 2,
Actually Obama hasn't yet approved the provocation of US ship sailing w/in the 12 mile limit of China's new islands.
Perhaps the advance announcement is a nudge by neocon elements in the military who are urging it.
Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10 2015 6:40 utc | 91
rufus @87
Your response doesn't address the issues that I raised.
Orlov claims that the US is systematically providing poor training resulting in ineffective forces that leave allies at a disadvantage.
And those who make conjectures have the burden of proving them.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 10 2015 13:57 utc | 92
JR at 98 --
You raised no issues, but merely blew off Orlov's argument as above his pay grade.
I found his evidence persuasive, and when you poo-poo'd it, I added evidence. Our weak practices get replicated in our training of our clients. Orlov links this unsuitable preparation with our long-time methods of waging war. "Three decades of random abuse directed at weak opponents have accustomed the American army to rely on technological superiority, and it has largely lost the skills of close-range combat."
Orlov presented a prima facie case, which I view as fairly robust. He discusses at length the particulars of the training, calling it "not military training. It is, at most, police training...." He notes that this sort of training has been provided to any number of our clients. Quite interestingly, he reports that the current Ukrainian trainees, veterans of the Donbas front, "are refusing to obey instructors, whom they see as complete and utter newbies."
The burden of proof now falls on those who would disagree. I see no prima facie case made against him, no opposing facts, no argumentation, just the unsupported assertion he's in over his head. If you intend to prove it, you'd best hop to it.
So you would need to show that Orlov incorrectly describes our military methodology, that the training provided on this basis is appropriate and effective, and the reasons for the appalling performance of our sepoys is due to other factors.
Wouldn't the fall of Mosul be good evidence of poor US training and inappropriate doctrine and tactics? Afghanistan? Or even our failed "moderate jihadi training program"?
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 10 2015 14:33 utc | 93
Now that Tsipras won a formal confidence vote Thursday for his revamped Syriza/ANEL mash-up it seems a good time to check on the status of their order for "Meaningful Debt Relief" (TM).
On Monday Reuters reported on the prospects for this chimera with Tsipras pleads for debt relief with austere budget.
Euro zone finance ministers have agreed to discuss a limited debt restructuring, but not writedowns, if Greece successfully concludes a first review of the new bailout programme by the end of this year, which entails passing far-reaching reforms of taxation, pensions and public administration....Diplomats and Greek officials say Tsipras and his Syriza party have decided to stop fighting the creditors for now and comply with the bailout in the quest for early debt relief and a return to economic independence....
The more pragmatic re-elected leader, who trounced hard left rebels in last month's vote, controls 155 lawmakers in the 300-seat parliament and is sure of a confidence vote on Wednesday.
However, some leftists in his Syriza party remain reluctant to accept liberal market reforms of labour law, cuts in welfare and retirement benefits and sweeping privatisation of state assets, setting up tense votes next year.
It goes onto say Tsipras has hopes of somehow mitigating the effects of these body blows to the Greek masses.
WSWS reports on the subsequent confidence vote and the preceding budgetary measures as Tsipras wins confidence vote in Greek parliament.
The budget unleashes the next round of savage cuts against an already impoverished population. Last month the OECD published findings showing that average Greek household income has fallen by 27.5 percent since 2007.
Unbalanced Evolution has a shorter, sharper take on this quest for the grail, as the wandering Tsipras vainly seeks support for Greece in the other side of the Atlantic late last month.
In reality this is only a secondary matter which will not fix Greece's problem, especially under IMF terms. It seems that it is only a tiny reward for SYRIZA to become a systemic social-democratic party which will obey to the global plutocracy mechanisms.The statements from both IMF and German officials, proves the above... [as] officials from the Ministry of Finance stated that Greece should follow every detail of the 3rd memorandum agreement to achieve the necessary "reforms".
Again, everyone knows that the new agreement contains more catastrophe for Greece. Debt is the tool to force Greece make the "reforms" towards the complete deregulation of the labor market and sell off public assets.
That's why the Brussels-Berlin axis wanted to get rid of SYRIZA's radical part.... Unfortunately, Tsipras and SYRIZA's moderate continue to make wrong estimations that will not help Greece escape from the dead end.
"New & Improved Meaningful Debt Relief (TM) -- Now With More Catastrophe!" If you have the belief, you'll feel the relief. Now available from Eurobankers everywhere!
Given the mass plundering that deregulation and privatization will be, it is difficult to see whatever crumbs that Tsipras might obtain through thorough compliance as any sort of compensation.
Here's an interesting post mortem from a former Syriza Central Committee member and present Popular Unity member, Stathis Kouvelakis, Defeat and Demoralization in Greece.. TRNN Executive Producer Sharmini Peries conducted the interview.
So in that context of demoralization and of defeat, there were two reactions to that that prevailed. The first is the logic of the lesser evil. And this is why a majority of those who had voted for Syriza, the coalition of the radical left in January, voted again for that same party in the September elections. The thought, they have the illusion, that Syriza could still somehow soften up some of the austerity which is included in the new package.Now, another very substantial part of the electorate is just completely alienated by politics. Deeply disappointed and angry. And those people abstained. And this is why those elections registered the lowest turnout ever in Greek political history with official abstention rates reaching 44 percent.
He attributes the loss in part due to the difficulties of pulling together a national organization and campaign in a month. Kouvelakis believes this was Tsipras' aim in not waiting for a formal no confidence vote before resigning, prompting new elections. This need for time to develop alternative party program and structures is likely the reason for slow consumation of the split that Kouvelakis said "started the moment Tsipras decided to surrender" to austerity and sign the memo, IMHO.
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 10 2015 14:57 utc | 94
Oh, BTW, the military itself sees even deeper problems with our approach to advising, which are frankly even more disturbing. They are not Giving Advising its Due.
Instead of top-shelf talent advising within their specialties, you get a potpourri of assorted discards with seemingly random assignments. They have short tours, leaving little time for effective work. For this and other reasons, due to operational limitations, they often lack credibility with the trainees.
So not only are we imparting inappropriate doctrine and tactics, we're not even doing that well.
The bookmark-worthy Small Wars Journal has a number of interesting pieces on intervention and the American way of war. I followed a few links on intervention and got to this from Counterpunch, back in 2008. It quotes a French officer, saying "If you find yourself needing to use counterinsurgency, it means the entire population has become the subject of your war, and you either will have to stay there forever or you have lost." We're big on counterinsurgency, of course.
And not to overlook the larger point -- the folly and existential bad faith of our way of war reflects the folly and irrationality of our way of life, aka the capitalist mode of production, dependent upon ever-growing mass over-consumption largely conducted in blissful ignorance of the real costs and consequences.
But hey, next quarters results look promising, that's what matters.
And on the topic of Russia and the Middle East, see Mike Whitney at Counterpunch. Dare I describe his work as almost always thoughtful, detailed, and interesting?
Barack Obama is not going to initiate a confrontation with Russia to defend a fundamentally immoral CIA program.... He will, however, do what the US always does when dealing with an adversary that can actually defend itself.... hector, harass, threaten, demean, demonize, ridicule, and bully.... But he’s not going to start a war with Russia...."
Good stuff on Turkey, too, IMHO.
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 10 2015 16:24 utc | 95
rufus @93-95
Typical rufus bloviating when losing an argument. Reject (not refute) and redirect (not engage).
You raised no issues
I raised issues @84 which you have not really grappled with.
merely blew off Orlov's argument as above his pay grade
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said this about Orlov. I pointed out that Orlov has not proven his conjecture and that YOU (rufus) don't have the knowledge or experience required to shed light on his conjecture.
I found his evidence persuasive
That means little when you don't have the knowledge or experience necessary for sound judgment.
I added evidence.
Which didn't address the logical flaws in Orlov's conjecture.
Orlov presented a prima facie case . . . The burden of proof now falls on those who would disagree
'Prima facie' is made to get a hearing. It doesn't prove one's case. The burden is still on Orlov (and/or his supporters) to prove the conjecture.
Wouldn't the fall of Mosul be good evidence ... Or even our failed "moderate jihadi training program"?
Not if the fall of Mosul was arranged (as many believe). And I dealt with the moderate training program @84.
Meaningful Debt Relief (TM)
Thank you for acknowledging (silently via "TM") my important and original contribution in pointing out that Tspiras called elections on August 20th because he could see that there would be no "meaningful debt relief". It's really unfortunate that I had to object to your plagiarism before your gave me that credit.
the military itself sees even deeper problems
There are always people trying to improve organizations. That's how they make a name for themselves and move up the ladder.Please point us to the military study that says that allied soldiers are being provided with training that makes their military less capable and their country vulnerable to its enemies (basicly a study that proves Orlov's conjecture)
counterinsurgency...the larger point...Mike Whitney
blah ... blah ... bloviation.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 10 2015 20:40 utc | 96
I could not have lost an argument, since you never made one. You made a few conjectures, I responded with facts. You need to respond with facts, not a word-salad smokescreen.
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 11 2015 4:46 utc | 97
Just heard two snippets from the rear-end of a BBC interview with Edward Snowden. He mentioned the riskiness of smart phones and "knowing how to keep a secret." He also explained his independence from Russian financial support by stating that he earned a vast amount of money (for someone with his qualifications) while at NSA and took all of it out of the USA in cash, in breach of US regs. He would return to US IF he could extract specific promises from the USG but the only guarantee his persecutors have given is that he wouldn't be tortured. And he's dismissive of that promise because of lesser promises they refused to make.
There are several probable links in a Google Search for >BBC Snowden interview< from about 6 days ago. The link I clicked on was for a 3min 30sec video and the full interview is much longer than that, and I've never thought Snowden was a phony. Many here apparently don't mind exploring videos online until they find what they're looking for ...
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 11 2015 10:49 utc | 98
What a canting idiot.
I presented plenty of evidence supportive of Orlov's position, and you affect to question my qualifications while pulling rank speculation of your hutch.
A prima facie case is one that must be rebutted, and Orlov's needs to be rebutted, not dismissed as somehow illogical and unfounded. Orlov has evidence, you have.... squat.
See yours at 86, where you agree with blues at 85, "looks to be unusually far out of his usual orbit." Sounded like blowing him off to me, though you do affect to do it in some depth with a few unsubstantiated talking points.
For example, at 84 you prove nothing, since you provide nothing but suggestions about how Orlov's piece might be criticized. What are your "obvious variables" Orlov fails to account for, how do you analyze them? If he's as wrong as you say, should be easy to prove, right?
Here's an example of a stupid question. "And just how important is soldier initiative on today's battlefield anyway?" Well, if you'd actually read any of links I'd provided, you see the military pros talking about it like it's pretty important. If you think that initiative on the battlefield is of little import, then YOU need to show that. Find some Pentagon brass talking about mindless execution of orders, maybe. Get off your lazy haunches and provide your own evidence.
And you say, he "doesn't list sources." Pretty rich coming from someone who regularly serves up word salads of unsupported facts.
You missed the whole point about the overall deskilling of labor and centralization of control. The same social and economic structures affecting capitalist societies will of course impact their militaries. De-skilling and centralization in the economy means de-skilling and centralization in the military.
Didn't you see, Tsipras thinks he can still get "New & Improved Meaningful Debt Relief" (TM) after he's screwed Greek workers for a few months? Didn't you say, before the elections, you expected him to fight for it after he returned to power? And didn't I say then that the time to fight was back when Syriza won the July referendum? And that Tsipras had no intent on any real fight? It was right after the referendum that Tsipras quit fighting, because he had a terribly long meeting with the troika, the poor dear.
BTW, if you have to tout your posting as an "important and original contribution," it probably isn't. I quoted it 'cause I know how you are about your little pet phrase.
But hey, what do I know? I only have an advanced degree in Soviet history, thirty years of political experience, and a long-standing interest in military affairs.
So what exactly are your "qualifications" for leaving your droppings all about and whining about how I don't think them gemstones? Ignoring the obvious, focusing on trivia, and ignorant, unsourced trash talk? Shouldn't you be a Republican then?
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 11 2015 15:54 utc | 99
Rufus reading comprehension FAIL
I am not saying that Orlov is wrong, only that he is far from proving his case. His conjecture is comprised of supposition and some anectodal evidence ... oh, and your irrelevant life experience. I also think that he also uses some info in a dishonest way (related to anti-ISIS training).
I didn't say that soldier initiative was unimportant, I questioned HOW important it was in today's battlefield and noted that it is more important for some units than others.
'De-skilling' of labor is a murky concept. There has been a bifurcation where some jobs are de-skilled and some jobs are more highly skilled. How this translates to the military is unclear. Most recruits have not been in the labor force long enough to be affected by a civilian job mentality. And, while military unit specialization (due to technological improvements) may mean that some units have less competence in battlefield tactics, the intent is to make a stronger fighting force overall. Assessing how well this goal is achieved requires a lot of data and military experience.
And I did NOT say that I expected Tsipras to fight for meaningful debt relief after he returned to power. That makes no sense whatsoever given that I argued that he chose to call early elections rather than fight the Troika because he saw no prospect for "meaningful debt relief(TM)". Note: I used the meaningful qualifier to highlight the bait and switch which Tsipras quietly acquiesced to when he called elections rather than fight: the IMF called for a big debt write-down before the Summit Agreement and Merkel had insisted IMF participation was political necessary during negotiations but in August Merkel backed away from that saying that the IMF was needed only for its 'technical expertise'.
=
Its sad that with all your academic experience you still fail to keep track of important points like those above. And your political experience has certainly not served you well because you constantly try to 'spin' like a politician.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 11 2015 17:20 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Mexico: One year after the disappearance of 43 students from Ayotzinapa, their parents have petitioned President Enrique Peña Nieto to ask for the cooperation of the United Nations (UN) in creating an International Commission against Impunity in Mexico (CICIM), following the example of the CICIG in Guatemala. As they note, an international commission would be critical in overcoming the serious crises of impunity, corruption, and human rights across the country.
Posted by: Maracatu | Oct 8 2015 17:58 utc | 1