Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 23, 2015

No End To The Stuck War On Yemen

This somewhat funny battle map of Yemen was posted by Haykal Bafana some five weeks ago.


bigger

The last bigger post on the war on Yemen here was on September 9. Since then nothing important happened there to write about. Little has changed in the positions on the battlefield. The daily Saudi bombing of the cities continues, the Saudi/U.S. blockade on the country continues and a wide raging famine is imminent.

The Houthis are still fighting the Saudis in Marib in the north-east. They are still invading the former Yemeni areas in Saudi Arabia in the north. They are still targeting Saudi ships that come near the Yemeni coast in the west. (Two were allegedly hit.) They still indiscriminately shell Saudi coalition positions in Taiz. Al-Qaeda and Islamic State groups are still gobbling up more territory in the south-east and around Aden. The Saudi attack on the Yemeni highlands and Sanaa is still stuck right where it started.

The Saudi/U.S. coalition included troops from the UAE which had landed in Aden. They brought in the Saudi sponsored "government" of the former president Hadi. But Hadi left the country after just 24 hours on the ground and the building the "government" occupied in Aden was targeted by double suicide car bombs. Some more UAE troops were killed and the "government" went back to reside in a convention center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. The UAE troops now keep to their camps.

The "vice president" Khaled Bahah is trying to arrange some peace talks but neither the Saudis nor anyone else is listening to him. The UN is also arranging peace talks but nobody expects any results. The Saudi lunatic "young leader" Mohammad bin Salman-un wants to get whatever he wants or continue the war.

Last week troops from Sudan, paid by the Saudis, landed in Aden. The U.S. is now in a coalition with Sudan even as it accuses the same troops of genocide in Darfur. Yesterday the soldiers from Sudan were attacked with a suicide car bomb and some 15 of them died. Some 500 troops are also suppose to come from Mauritania. They will fare no better. The Saudis also hired 800 Christian mercenaries from Columbia. Al Qaeda and IS are feverishly waiting for them.

The Saudis really believe they can buy everyone and anything and achieve the results they favor. But non of the bribes they paid to this or that Yemeni tribe to fight the Houthis changed the position on the ground. All their high tech weapons fail to decide or end the conflict. None of their mercenary troops have a chance against fiercely independent Yemenis defending their homes. All the support the U.S. gives the Saudis only brings more death, destruction and misery.

This war on Yemen is the most stupid one I can think of. There is nothing to win for anybody. Who will tell the Saudis?

Posted by b on October 23, 2015 at 02:02 PM | Permalink

Comments
next page »

Crazies in White House still pushing for no fly zone. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/23/world/middleeast/us-considering-ways-to-shield-syrian-civilians.html?_r=0

Posted by: H | Oct 23, 2015 2:17:45 PM | 1

There is nothing to win for anybody. Who will tell the Saudis?

My "sense" looking forward, is among consequences of Putin's swift moving influence in Syria and realignment's with Iran/Jordan have ending Saudi's ridiculous ideological influence/intrusions sharply in mind. From what I read elsewhere... coupled with Saudi's low oil price gambit, not just their influence but almost limitless finance available for these kinds of "shenanigans" is about to go "poof".

Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 23, 2015 2:33:02 PM | 2

KSA ramped up their drilling program starting in 2011 - because they had to in order to keep up with depletion. The KSA chart shows their 300% rig count (means drilling wells) increase over the last 48 months:

http://peakoilbarrel.com/international-rig-counts/

Oil prices did not just fall - colluding parties forced them down for their own reasons, which just happened to coincide into a single vector - overproduction. Within KSA, all but 3 of their oil fields have less than 20% remaining in them, and nobody ever gets that last 10% out easily. At current production/depletion rates, this cannot go on for very long - current rates are only sustainable due to no/slow world economic growth and no interruption in supply. KSA has no more additional production 'oomph' left to shove through their system.

Combine that with their own internal mess (succession, generational break, tiny native population vs huge expat population, sectarian nutjobs all over the country, 100% food imports,etc.) and the Saud clock is now ticking irrespective of what happens in Syria or Yemen.

Telling them means nothing, because they are all finally understanding that their children are, in fact, going to ride camels in lieu of driving Land Rovers. It is likely decisions will seem totally senseless to those outside of KSA, because within their is a LOT of squabbling and jockeying going on. I have had contracts cancelled for no clear reason other than internal political winds shifting. I am not the only one who has seen this.

The Saudis have always been able to buy whatever they wished - be it military equipment, destabilizing others, women, boys, drugs or anything else. It isn't coincidence that the largest drug and alcohol rehab center in MENA is in KSA, where everything they treat one for is illegal. There isn't enough hyperbole to describe it - but they are glimpsing the end of their magic carpet ride.

Posted by: BOG | Oct 23, 2015 3:10:09 PM | 3

I apologize for posting completely unrelated topic. I am dumbfounded at the lack of response to the John Brennan Hack.

According to an recent interview with Robert Bear, he stated something to the effect that Brennan is orchestrating the destruction of the CIA.

Then we get the 'weed smoking teenagers' hack of Brennan's email account. Then a progressive release of that data by Wikileaks https://wikileaks.org/cia-emails/

I'm guessing that this shake-up is not going to occur with a lot of grace.

1. NY Times, March 2015 reveals Clinton’s use of a private server for her email as secretary of state.

2. According to www.lawfareblog.com - there do not appear to be any Clinton-type issues about Brennan’s using private email for government business. ??? Though of course, they do mention EMBARRASSMENT.

3. Not only lot's of interviews published with stoned hacker, but an actual a phone call with Brennan about seizing his account. The authorities cannot track down the hackers?

4. Interview today...
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/10/23/ignoring_us_destabilization_of_libya_gop

AMY GOODMAN: Mel Goodman, you’re a former CIA and State Department analyst. Let’s talk about the role of the CIA, for example, in Libya. The CIA and the State Department, are they merging? And does that endanger diplomacy, when people in other countries think it’s the same thing?

MELVIN GOODMAN: Well, the problem, I think, is even greater than that. The merger that’s taking place, particularly under this director, John Brennan, is the merger between the CIA and the Pentagon. I left the CIA in the 1980s because of the politicization of intelligence under Bill Casey and Bob Gates. But what John Brennan has done is created the CIA as a paramilitary institution that is really doing the bidding of the Pentagon. He said in his confirmation hearings he was going to give up drone warfare, that that properly belonged in the Pentagon—if we should be doing it at all, which is another question. But not only has he not done that, we’ve expanded the use of the drones. Now he’s merging intelligence analysts and operatives, which will further politicize intelligence.

Conclusion: As if international events are not destabilizing enough.

Posted by: Kim Sky | Oct 23, 2015 3:18:55 PM | 4

So Yemen is dividing again into Zaidi north, and Sunni south. The invaders haven't made any progress.

Thanks for the analysis, b.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 23, 2015 3:24:42 PM | 5

"Who will tell the Saudis?"

Their own balance sheet will. Or the price of oil. Make your pick.
KAS already runs $120B budget deficit. It can't afford basic necessities, let alone dead-end wars.
I say "dead-end", because there is no optimal outcome for the Saudis, as victory would actually be even worse than a loss.
If they somehow achieve a victory, they'll own Yemen - the poorest Arab country with a population nearly as big as Saudi Arabia's and a birthrate twice its level - and will have to pay countless billions for the reconstruction and pacification, while being shot at by the insurgents. That will break the House of Saud even faster than the war itself.
Having said that, Yemenis have a fearsome reputation as some of the best Arab fighters, while Saudis have trouble wiping their own ass without a help of an East Asian maid, so I wouldn't bet a penny on the latter's victory.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 23, 2015 3:29:40 PM | 6

Obama who secretly loathes Saudi Arabia is extremely happy to see the country spending its money and resources on a endless war. He knew the Saudis will try to buy everybody, but he knew that it wouldn't work that way. Al Qaeda is sneaking in Aden and the separatists, despite well tipped, are still aiming at separating from the North and kicking out Hadi.
Poor Sudanis are been sent as cannon fodder. Pakistan was wise enough to refuse to join in.
In a few months, Saudi Arabia will be totally exhausted, accused of war crimes and unable to continue justifying to its citizens the reason of that war.
That's where Obama is waiting for them when desperate, they will call for the help of the USA to get out of the quagmire. Then they'll be like poddles licking Obama's feet
He will impose on them to stop supporting terrorists, force them to agree to find a compromise with Iran and stop meddling in the Iran-Russia protectorate: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon...
We will see that in 2016

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 23, 2015 3:41:53 PM | 7

@Jackrabbit 117 and @Kim Sky 3

I'm still convinced that State Dept and CIA are the ones melding, and maybe the defense minus Patraeus are the ones holding back Obama's reins. Especially after reading the article The Red Line and the Rat Line posted by Jackrabbit. And I had no clue Erdogan was so involved. Wow.

I think the only thing that is going to stop the neo-con policies now will be the destabilization of Europe by a mass migration of refugees.

At some point the EU will have to say STOP.

Populist, Pernicious and Perilous : Germany's Growing Hate Problem


There have been more than twice as many attacks on refugee hostels during the first nine months of this year as in the whole of 2014. The rising tide of hatred is now reaching the politicians many hold responsible for the perceived chaos besetting Germany. The national headquarters of Merkel's conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party in Berlin fields thousands of hate mails every week. As the architect of the "we can do it" policy of allowing masses of refugees into the country, Chancellor Merkel is their primary target.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-1059357.html#ref=rss

b....sorry to be always off topic.

Posted by: shadyl | Oct 23, 2015 3:58:36 PM | 8

MMARR@5

Their own balance sheet will. Or the price of oil. Make your pick.

Right on!

Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 23, 2015 4:00:08 PM | 9

thanks b..

my comments to a couple of lines from your post..

"The U.S. is now in a coalition with Sudan even as it accuses the same troops of genocide in Darfur." no problem as amnesty international and hrw - those ngo's working with usa and others money will not be mentioning any of it..

"The Saudis really believe they can buy everyone and anything and achieve the results they favor." where have we seen this before? learned behaviour from the exceptional nation it would seem.. my question to this - when do the world governing institutions who might be able to challenge this paid for mercenary game - address this outstanding issue as it arises internationally? countries like saudi arabia need to be held to account for sowing murder and mayhem in other parts of the world..

bottom line - saudi arabia needs to be done away with.. nothing good is coming out of it..

Posted by: james | Oct 23, 2015 4:18:07 PM | 10

@okie farmer, thanks for link on last thread.

Priceless:


He (Putin) asked rhetorically how “countries which never had an elected president and which don’t even allow their women to drive motor cars can dictate” on Syria’s leadership.

Posted by: shadyl | Oct 23, 2015 4:19:57 PM | 11

The Colombian troops are among the best in South America. The chilean army is also very good and so are the Cubans. These Colombians will fight very hard but they will be beaten because they are mercenaries, condotierrii can win battles but they cannot win a war.

Posted by: Fernando | Oct 23, 2015 4:20:46 PM | 12

#5 and 8


https://www.rt.com/business/319465-saudi-bankrupt-projection-imf/

Posted by: jo6pac | Oct 23, 2015 4:29:08 PM | 13

forgot to share this U.S. plans $11 billion sale of combat ships to Saudi Arabia.. imf also reporting saudi arabia might be bankrupt by 2020...

Posted by: james | Oct 23, 2015 4:32:34 PM | 14

@9 James -- Great post, and I agree with your sentiments about the Saudis. Their mindset that anyone can be bought is shared by others in the Gulf monarchies as a result of generations of unearned wealth and profligacy. I work in the media field and in the past few years I have been approached by different groups from Saudi Arabia and other GCC members for various projects. In several instances, I found the people I was dealing with to be sleazy and manipulative, and I declined their business. The look on their faces when I said no to their money was beyond priceless. It was literally as if they were having a stroke as blood stopped flowing to their brains. Initially they assumed I was simply angling for more money, which they offered immediately. When it finally became clear to them that I would never accept money from them under any circumstances, it was as if their entire sense of reality had been shattered.

What I experienced on a personal level is about to be experienced on a regional level by the rulers of the Gulf countries.

Posted by: VictorK | Oct 23, 2015 4:34:23 PM | 15

I know it's not Yemem-related, but I thought you'd be interested in this breaking story. It appears that yet another Israeli military handler of ISIS has been caught red-handed in the Syria-Iraq area of operations.
"Guess Who is Behind the Islamic State: Israeli IDF Colonel Leading ISIS Terrorists Arrested in Iraq"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/guess-who-is-behind-the-islamic-state-israeli-idf-colonel-leading-isis-terrorists-arrested-in-iraq/5483679

Posted by: Guest | Oct 23, 2015 4:41:35 PM | 16

@7
Shadyl, having read many of your posts, I respect you and I think you're honest, but I think you're mistaken about Obama having real power. Presidents are selected; they are hirelings.

@6
Don't indulge in daydreams.

1) Obama is a puppet; if he has any +ive or -ive feelings for Saudi Arabia, they are irrelevant.

2) 'Al Queda' is significantly Saudi-financed and Saudi-aligned.

3) You say: "He will impose on them to stop supporting terrorists, force them to agree to find a compromise with Iran and stop meddling in the Iran-Russia protectorate: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon..."
What? The US Administration funds and supports diverse Takfiri terrorists. Obama is owned by his campaign donors and the people who will pay him off outside of office, i.e., Ziocons.

Posted by: Guest | Oct 23, 2015 4:56:09 PM | 17

@14 victorK.. thanks..that's a beautiful analogy at the end of your post which i hope comes true.. not everyone can be bought off.. there are still those who come from a place of integrity.. we need to see this on a wider scale.. that to me is what real leadership would look like.. there is so very little of any of that in the world today in terms of leadership.

Posted by: james | Oct 23, 2015 5:04:38 PM | 18

Came across a video depicting Houthis versus Saudi tanks showing the topography of the region as desolate and very forbidding, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVe85-UbRNc

My guess is that Yemen has rare earth minerals in that topography worth more than all of Saudi's oil.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23, 2015 5:10:35 PM | 19

Guest @16

Yes! We constantly see Kool-Aid drinkers (or obamabots) insisting/implying that Obama doesn't approve of this or that when Obama is just doing a job. Obama is just another member of the WH team - and decisions are generally made elsewhere (DOD, State, CIA, etc.) so as to keep the cult of the Presidency strong (always deniability). The President as spokesperson and cheerleader of the establishment is the most important function of the office.

Its also hillarisous to see the foolishness of those who believe that Obama has a frosty relationship with Netanyahu/neocons over the Iran deal. They promote the notion that Obama is such a visionary and peaceful man (he's really earning that peace prize!). Yet, Obama does everything else that the neolibcons want?!?!?!

I have been skeptical of the Iran nuclear negotiations for long time and I think the 'deal' is not what is seems. With Iran joining with Russia over Syria, the truth of that is just now becoming clear.

=

The other Kool-Aid inspired get-out-of-jail excuse that we frequently see is the belief that the US can't do anything right (especially in the ME). This is very wrong-headed. Change your perspective, and the US and allies have been very successful at moving the ball (in their own coy, covert and duplicitous way). Only Putin's leadership in revitalizing Russia (and moving quickly when necessary) has stopped them from taking the whole of Ukraine and Syria (and much more besides).

That's why I disagree with Pepe's "Empire of Chaos" moniker. I think it is really an "Empire of Illusion". JDMcKay @120 fell victim to this erroneous "chaos" line of thinking in the last thread where is argues that the US should 'stop the madness' by halting everything.

=

Ordinary people can not believe that their leaders would act in such immoral and despicable ways. These excuses (and more, like "just following orders", and blaming the victim) are meant to tie people up in knots. And they are so pervasive that even well-meaning people can fall victim.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 23, 2015 5:54:02 PM | 20

"There is nothing to win for anybody."

Yes, there is. Israel wins the destruction of the Arab "cattle" occupying the future Greater Israel. From Yemen in the South to Syria in the North, from the Gaza Strip in the West to Iraq in the East. The people of these countries - whether Orthodox, Catholic, Shia, Sunni, Yazidi, Alawite, or any other group - have been bombed back almost to the stone age, their electricity cut off, their farms turned to dust, their water pipes run dry, their wells destroyed, their ancient history bulldozed, their universities bombed, their doctors and engineers emigrated, disease rampant, infant mortality rampant, literacy plummeted, life expectancy crashed.

We are seeing ethnic cleansing on a Biblical scale. We are seeing nation states, and civilisations, being unpicked, thread by thread. We are seeing the same tactics Zionists used in their long project to colonise Palestine, now being expanded to the Middle East at large. Exactly the same: terrorise them, uproot them, starve them, make them thirsty, make them fight one another, make them refugees, make them crawl. This will get much worse. Millions have died, millions more will die, and the 'fortunate' will be ethnically cleansed to refugee camps in the Turkey or Europe. This murder was planned many years ago.

Who has won, so far?

Israel has gained cut-price Kurdish oil. 75% of its oil supply is now Kurdish. Israel pays next to nothing, and its energy security is assured to boot.

Israel has occupied every would-be wahabbist footsoldier with battles located anywhere but Israel, under leaders loyal to Israel like al-Baghdadi, AKA Mossad agent Simon Eliot.

Israel has gained a barrier to Russian AND Qatari gas pipelines to Europe. Israel hopes Leviathan (and gas fields off the Gaza Strip) will fill the void, and further increase its clout with the EU.

Israel has gained a free hand. The world is too preoccupied to with Mossad's creation, ISIS, to dwell on the ongoing genocide of Palestinans.

Israel has gained impotent, broken enemies. All of the Arab nations which opposed Israel now lie in ruins. Israel has never been stronger.

Israel has become a conventional weapons superpower almost overnight, to match its nuclear capabilities. SInce 2003, Israel has gained hundreds of billions of dollars of American military aid, donated to 'protect' Israel from the very turmoil from which it benefits. The IDF now has more precision-guided munitions than all of NATO combined, if you exclude the USA.

Posted by: Names are hard to think of | Oct 23, 2015 6:11:50 PM | 21

continuing from #19:

I have to quickly add that it is equally wrong to say that Obama has NO power. He has a lot more power than any ordinary person. He has the power to use the bully pulpit for positive change and to hold people accountable. When have Clinton/Bush/Obama exercised these powers? They haven't because they are elitists anticipating their end-of-term payoff.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 23, 2015 6:15:12 PM | 22

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23, 2015 5:10:35 PM | 18

Have a look on the map. Saudi exports are controlled by the - narrow - Persian Gulf - Iran - and by the - narrow - Gulf of Aden - controlled by Yemen and Eritrea. Iran and Israel are involved in both countries. And, of course, there is Somalia.
US are clearly disengaging from the Middle East. I can understand Saudis getting nervous.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 23, 2015 6:42:30 PM | 23

@Jackrabbin #19

I'd be interested if you'd expand on your thoughts on the Iran nuclear deal. I suspect that it adds clarity to Russia's relationship with Iran, giving both more freedom of action.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Oct 23, 2015 6:48:52 PM | 24

Apparently, the largest old world vulture is surprisingly closely related to the American bald eagle. Indeed God moves in mysterious ways.

Posted by: bridger | Oct 23, 2015 6:54:02 PM | 25

Just to share background that might help understand.

In regard to Saudi Royals, IMO they make fundamental mistakes in their kingdom. The British royals try to keep their children poor and try to make them work. Historically, the sons of lower nobility would be sent to more senior families to work. This way they were not spoiled. They learned to value things and become more practical. In many ways this continues until today.

On the other hand, Saudi Royals are spoiled from day one. I personally knew one of these Saudi royal princes at Stanford University: he had a bazaar life where money had no meaning. In my view, he was far away from our normal world.

In general, royals are strangers to our world. My girlfriend at the time in the UK had lunch with Prince Charles and she sat next to him during the meal. She is also royal from Indonesia, but she was number three on the hierarchical list to sit next to him. Since the two higher ups were so close in ranking, they were both moved aside as a compromise. I forgot if she sat on the right or left. In any case, she said that Prince Charles was shy and lacked confidence. Anyway, the point is that they put all this effort into ranking and other issues – all without the idea of merit.

So what would you expect? And is it really any wonder that the Saudi Royals will tend to make a lot of bad decisions. And when they buy advisers, are the advisers making the best decisions for the Saudi’s or do they have their own agenda? Such is the strange world or royals.


Posted by: Peter B | Oct 23, 2015 7:18:43 PM | 26

@25 Not hard to understand at all. They are terrified of the peasantry.

Posted by: dh | Oct 23, 2015 7:35:59 PM | 27

@5 "East Asian maid"

This is semantics, its actually south Asian, not east Asian. Most of the immigrant workers are from India and Pakistan, making up almost 3 million people in Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: Massinissa | Oct 23, 2015 7:52:56 PM | 28

somebody @22

Thanks, I'm very aware of the geography as well as the topography and geology.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23, 2015 8:03:15 PM | 29

@MMARR@5

If they somehow achieve a victory, they'll own Yemen - the poorest Arab country with a population nearly as big as Saudi Arabia's and a birthrate twice its level - and will have to pay countless billions for the reconstruction and pacification, while being shot at by the insurgents. That will break the House of Saud even faster than the war itself.

I seriously doubt they would win, and if they do, it will be a Pyrrhic victory. Reconstruction? Pacification? You're dreaming. The Saudis are troglodytes, they will enslave the population of Yemen in such conditions, it would appear Spartacus' Nubian mines were a five-star hotel. For the Saudis, this is a war of revenge, and of reconquering lands lost in the 1934 conflict. It has nothing to do with restoring the rule of law to Yemen, even worse, restoring "democracy."

As Putin said, how “countries which never had an elected president and which don’t even allow their women to drive motor cars can dictate” on Syria’s leadership. By the same token, how can they restore "democracy and freedom" to the thousand times heroic Yemeni people? The Saudis will learn a lesson in Yemen, the Yemeni people will sweep the Arabian Peninsula with Saudi arrogance.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 23, 2015 8:52:23 PM | 30

What's your opinion on this?

"Russia receives authorization to strike Daesh inside Iraq" Reported by "Anadolu Agency" (Turkey state-run media)

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/russia-receives-authorization-to-strike-daesh-inside-iraq/454089

Has it finally happened or is this just more rumors?

Thanks.

Posted by: Laura Roslin | Oct 23, 2015 9:47:46 PM | 31

"The merger that’s taking place, particularly under this director, John Brennan, is the merger between the CIA and the Pentagon."

I thought that was clear by the fact that Petraeus, Hayden, and Panetta - all who were either powerful military or civilian leaders in the Pentagon - had been put in charge of the CIA? I've been reminded several times lately about Bush's battle with the CIA over Iraq intelligence, presumably the decline in the independence of the CIA began with that episode. That's my current understanding though I don't study it closely.

It does seem a particular pattern as though whenever there is an attempt by a President to exert more control over the Agency, we begin to see military men put in charge of it. Early on it was lead by military men, Admiral Turner was put in charge of the CIA in the face of the exposures of the Church Committee. It's worth reviewing the bios if you have an interest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_Central_Intelligence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_Central_Intelligence_Agency

And control over the CIA is important for Presidents of course. Some of who have not survived their battles with them...

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 23, 2015 10:02:02 PM | 32

ABOUT THE NATURE OF RUSSIA'S JAMMING

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/policy-budget/warfare/2015/08/02/us-army-ukraine-russia-electronic-warfare/30913397/

Russia maintains an ability to destroy command-and-control networks by jamming radio communications, radars and GPS signals, according to Laurie Buckhout, former chief of the US Army's electronic warfare division, now CEO of the Corvus Group. In contrast with the US, Russia has large units dedicated to electronic warfare, known as EW, which it dedicates to ground electronic attack, jamming communications, radar and command-and-control nets.

"If your radars don't see incoming fire, you can't coordinate counterfire," Buckhout said.
The US, Buckhout said, lacks a significant electronic attack capability.
"We have great signals intelligence, and we can listen all day long, but we can't shut them down one-tenth to the degree they can us," she said. "We are very unprotected from their attacks on our network."
Multifunctional EW

Col. Jeffrey Church, the Army's electronic warfare division chief, acknowledged that since the Cold War, adversaries have continued to modernize their EW capabilities, while the Army began reinvesting its capabilities for Iraq and Afghanistan. Church called the fielding of Army electronic warfare equipment the "No. 1 priority" of his job.

The Army has demonstrated some ability to counter enemy communications, not under formal acquisitions programs but as quick-reaction capabilities. In Afghanistan, the Army used a handful of C-12 aircraft equipped with Communications, Electronic Attack, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (CEASAR) jamming pods to jam insurgent push-to-talk radios, and two fixed-site systems — Ground Auto Targeting Observation/Reactive (GATOR) jammer and Duke V2 EA — to jam radios and repeater towers.

On an ad hoc basis, troops in Afghanistan used GATOR — conceived to protect forward operating bases — to suppress repeater towers while on patrol or training Afghan forces, providing themselves the freedom to maneuver while denying communications to potential enemies, Griffin said.
"It was unlimited capability, limited by the number of systems," Griffin said. "Honestly, we just did not have enough to support the demand that was in the Army."

MFEW, due to reach initial operating capability in 2023 and full operating capability in 2027, is intended to offer a suite of powerful, sophisticated sensors and jammers for in the air, on ground vehicles and in fixed locations. The Army is due to consider a capability design document for the "air large" capability, akin to Caesar, potentially for a C-12 or a MQ-8 Fire Scout drone. Last year it tested the Networked Electronic Warfare Remotely Operated (NERO), a jamming pod attached to the Gray Eagle drone.
The Defense Department in March set up a panel to address its electronic warfare shortfalls, which, Griffin said, has generated discussion about accelerating the timeline for MFEW.
----

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 23, 2015 11:01:57 PM | 33

----
MORE ON RUSSIA'S JAMMING

Webster Tarpley on the Russian electronic jamming system:
The technology in question seems similar to the KRET Richag-AV system, although it apparently functions on a larger scale. A tactical version of this system was presented to journalists in the Russian city of Back in April 2015. As Sputnik reported then:

“The Richag-AV system, mounted on the Mi-8MTPR1 (a variant of the Mi-8MTB5-1 helicopter) is said to have no global equivalent. Its electronic countermeasures system is designed to jam radar, sonar and other detection systems in the aims of defending aircraft, helicopters, drones, ground and naval forces against air-to-air and surface-to-air defense systems within a radius of several hundred kilometers. It can be mounted on units from any branch of the armed forces, including helicopters and airplanes, as well as ground and ship-based forces. The Mi8-MTPR1-based Richag-AV platform, using multi-beam antenna arrays with DRFM technology, is designed to actively jam and thus ‘blind’ radar systems in order to defend against radio-electronic guided weapons systems. In a combat situation, the system would operate as part of an aviation shock attack group aimed at breaking through virtually any defense system, blinding everything up to and including the US MIM-104 ‘Patriot’ anti-aircraft missile system.” [1]

NATO supreme commander and US Air Force General Philip Breedlove was probably talking about this new KRET system when he addressed the German Marshall Fund on Monday, September 28. Here Breedlove had warned that Russia was creating an “A2/AD bubble” over the Syrian coast, and the eastern Mediterranean. A2/AD is the abbreviation for anti-access and area denial. Breedlove pointed out that Russia has already established such bubbles over the Baltic Sea at the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad, and also over the Crimea and the black Sea.

‘While Russia’s stated goal in moving into Syria is to fight the Islamic State, NATO’s top commander believes Russia’s new presence includes the first pieces of an intricate layer of defensive systems deployed to hinder U.S. and coalition operations in the region. “As we see the very capable air defense [systems] beginning to show up in Syria, we’re a little worried about another A2/AD bubble being created in the eastern Mediterranean,” said Breedlove to an audience at the German Marshall Fund Monday. A2/AD stands for anti-access/area denial. During the early stages of warfare, A2/AD could have been a moat around a castle, or spikes dug into the ground—anything to keep the enemy off a certain swathe of territory. In the 21st century, however, A2/AD is a combination of systems such as surface-to-air missile batteries and anti-ship missiles deployed to prevent forces from entering or traversing a certain area—from land, air or sea.

According to Breedlove, the introduction of an A2/AD bubble in Syria would be Russia’s third denial zone around Europe. The first and oldest he said, was in the Baltics where the Russian naval base in Kaliningrad has robust anti-air capabilities. The second zone—originating from Russian-occupied Crimea—covers the Black Sea. “Russia has developed a very strong A2/AD capability in the Black Sea,” said Breedlove. “Essentially their [anti-ship] cruise missiles range the entire Black Sea, and their air defense missiles range about 40 to 50 percent of the Black Sea.”’ [2]

In addition, the Russian military had provided a demonstration of their ability to blind even the sophisticated Aegis phased array radar, which is part of the equipment of modern US cruisers and destroyers. This incident came during the Crimean crisis of spring 2014, when the US sent a destroyer into the Black Sea. This ship was repeatedly buzzed up by a Russian Sukhoi-24 jet fighter, which was able to cripple the radar guidance the systems of the vessel.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 23, 2015 11:05:53 PM | 34

Christians? Makes it sound like they're fundamentalists crusading. It's only natural that Colombian mercs would be nominally Catholic, but it's probably irrelevant.

Posted by: ruralito | Oct 23, 2015 11:24:55 PM | 35

[Hasbara trolling]

Posted by: BiffaBacon | Oct 24, 2015 12:22:48 AM | 36

@35
Sorry, I meant to mention that Vershbow was making his threat to Russia against the backdrop of the ongoing NATO 'Trident Juncture' war games involving 36,000 troops, the largest NATO war games for many years. The timing isn't coincidental, and comes just days after the USA conducted a ballistic missile interception test as a show of strength.

It's gangsterism, pure and simple. Bugsy Seigel and Czar Lepke would have been proud.

Posted by: BiffaBacon | Oct 24, 2015 12:43:33 AM | 37


@BiffaBacon#35

Link no good another link....

http://www.infowars.com/eurozone-crosses-rubicon-as-portugals-anti-euro-left-banned-from-power/

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 24, 2015 12:48:14 AM | 38

Thanks for the update on US/Saudi-Israelia's Quagmire Of The Barbarians in Yemen, b.
Judging by the irrelevance and trolling, accurate predictions and painful truths are bringing tears to the eyes of a lot of frustrated non-people.
I'm still gobsmacked that the Saudi Barbarians are so lackadaisically ignorant and incompetent that they think taking military advice from Yankees is a good idea.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 24, 2015 1:14:09 AM | 40

In the 19th, gangs of Wahhabites were regularly raiding Yemeni shrines and libraries to destroy them in the name of their war against bigotry, and now they systematically destroy the archaeological heritage of this country
http://mobile.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/video/2015/10/16/la-guerre-ravage-le-patrimoine-du-yemen_4791199_3218.html

Needless to say that Yemen has many things KSA would dream of: two rain season for the North, plenty of coasts and fertile land.

Posted by: Mina | Oct 24, 2015 3:39:11 AM | 41

I am having this gut feeling that we are seeing the beginnings of the end of the Saudi rulers.

You look at the actions over the last few years and there is a pattern of desperation to them. Their jihad against Shiites (etc) almost looks like a last ditch attempt to hold everything together by picking an 'enemy'.

The rulers face multiple challenges, from the young and educated who want no part of this Wahabbi nonsense, the 'extreme believers' who see them as corrupt and sell outs, the oppressed Shiites in the country, the endless number of ruling class parasites sucking the life out of their oil wealth, their inability (unlike Iran) to build a broader economy, their institutionalised social hypocracy and all the rest...plus they are running out of water. This is not a good equation for a healthy, stable society.

So the foundations of it are crumbling and their 'foreign' adventures (and mad oil price decision) will only accelerate it. It is amusing to see the achitects of the collapse of oil prcies (US and Saudi) are becoming the biggest victims.....

And they have made many enemies, especially Russia. That meeting with Putin and the Saudi 'prince of darkness' with his threats re the Sofia Olympics and Syria infuriated them. Even in the US there are many who take the money and say 'yes sir no sir' that really hate them and would, if the money stopped, cut their throats tomorrow.

So I think and feel their regime is heading for the end. How long? No idea, months, years but I suspect less than a decade.

Posted by: Lisa | Oct 24, 2015 3:45:48 AM | 42

Completely missing from Western media, the latest holocaust Saudi massacre, this time mostly of Yemeni fishermen and their families: Saudi fighter jets bomb Yemen's Hudaydah, kill 115. "Saudi fighter jets pounded a number of islands, including Uqban and Kamaran, in the Red Sea. ... It was also said that the Saudi jets targeted a number of fishing boats in the area and prevented them from providing aid for the people on the targeted islands."

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 24, 2015 3:48:50 AM | 43

'Don't bury me': Dying boy's words bring Yemen's forgotten war back into focus

Saudi fighter jets bomb Yemen's Hudaydah, kill 115

UNICEF: 500,000 Yemeni Children Face Potential Famine and Death

U.S. Sells New Warships to Saudi Arabia Despite Warnings of War Crimes & Civilian Deaths in Yemen

The Saudis could literally not get off the ground without the USSA. The UN is silent. Even b is silent.

If it's US/UK/EU/Israeli/KSA terrorism/genocide ... then it's not terrorim/genocide ... in fact they're fight the 'terrorists'. You can always tell the 'terrorists' ... fishermen, women and children ... and their 'terrorist headquarters' ... wedding parties, hospitals, fishing boats ... nothing to see here. WOT as usual.

The Yemenis are like the Palestinians ... forsaken by the rest of humanity.

And the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate is counting the days ... 455 ... till payday, when he'll switch from counting days to counting dollars.

Hey, hey, Obama-fay! How many kids have you killed today?

He's never bothered to count the children he's killed.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 24, 2015 3:49:04 AM | 44

Biffabacon is a troll, singlehandedly upping the anti-Semitic content here for the usual Hasbara reasons.

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 24, 2015 3:50:15 AM | 45

Is it possible that the war on Yemen is the Saudi way of announcing they intend to control the middle east via support of various groups? Is it possible that "winning" or losing is not the real issue for them?

Posted by: Mark Stoval | Oct 24, 2015 4:48:29 AM | 46

Mark Stoval @44: I think the motivation is what b implied it was: the relatively young, extremely well-connected, and utterly inexperienced defense minister Mohammad bin Salman-un (who likely doesn't know what strategy means and certainly can't think it) is a stupid lunatic ... and hates Shias. He's a crazy monstrosity who likely 'thinks' all the world's problems will be solved when there are no more Shias. That's what Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Saudi Arabia, the world's first 'Islamic State', are all about.

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 24, 2015 5:21:04 AM | 47

I should add that I think in this case the U.S. is just going along with Saudi Arabia. It's part of the placating effort that U.S. officials think is needed because of the Iran deal.

The much smarter imperial move by Saudi Arabia (and the U.S.) would've been to support a 'color revolution with teeth' in the south, splitting Yemen in two again. That could've worked as there's a lot of legitimate resentment by the south against the north. The Houthis hadn't had enough time in power to show whether or not they could've made some changes that would've satisfied the south.

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 24, 2015 5:34:40 AM | 48

Then there's this: Eight of King Salman's 11 surviving brothers want to oust him

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-power-struggle-between-king-salman-and-mohammed-bin-salman-could-bring-down-the-a6706801.html

Posted by: jay | Oct 24, 2015 7:09:19 AM | 49

The success of the 'arc of resistance' Syria,Hezbollah,Iraq and Iran backed by Russia and quietly by China is a nightmare for the Saudi perverts and hangers on, they are at war with the Shia and have a sectarian motive in everything they do. Thankfully the 'arc of resistance', unlike the GCC states backed by the US, have the people behind them, so it is only a matter of time before the GCC satraps and human scum are hanging from lamp posts. This one Prince Al Waleed with his 500 million dollar gold plated airplane amongst them http://www.pointchaser.com/saudi-princes-500-million-plane/

Posted by: harry law | Oct 24, 2015 8:20:15 AM | 50

I think the US is/was out to destroy Saudi Arabia, and to bleed it dry in arms sales while it doing so. Then, when the Houthis or Da'esh or al-CIAda hit the carcasse of the KSA, the US/Israel will/would pounce ... to occupy the oilfields and to 'safeguard the stability' of the ME.

At least that was the plan, pre-Putin/Syria/Iran/... /Iraq?/Jordan? Interesting to see what happens, post-collapse, now that its a 'new day' in the ME.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 24, 2015 8:27:56 AM | 51

@43 fairleft. His postings has as much truth content as yours. I understand truth is no defence for you leftists unless it is congruent with your agenda.

Posted by: Ivan | Oct 24, 2015 8:37:48 AM | 52

I understand truth is no defence for you leftists unless it is congruent with your agenda.
Troll defends troll.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 24, 2015 8:41:20 AM | 53

Saudi Arabia may afford "necessities" because it can afford the deficit. The reserves allow to run the current deficit for ten years or so. And it has a number of sidekicks who also have financial reserves, and perhaps no deficit. But they clearly have severe "structural problems". From Saudi rumor mill: the person responsible for computer security at Aramco got fired because she took part in a timid demonstration when a number of women drove. About a year later Aramco had the largest security breach, the network was shut down, allegedly because of an Iranian worm (part of the "proof" was that the worm used the same approach as Stuxnet that was used against Iran, so Iranians could copy the ideas). It is not like meritocracy on managerial level is TOTALLY absent from the kingdom, but even when it crosses the barrier of nepotism it takes a beating from Wahhabi though police (which is lead on hereditary basis). And then there is a way of grooming and selecting top leaders.

The good part is that the leadership is passed among sibling lineages, assuring that each successor is pretty old and he does not rule overly long. But the current king was rumored to have Altzheimer, which more often than not results in paranoia. Rumors were perhaps circulated by the adversaries, but paranoia overlaid with religious fanaticism is the center of Saudi political though and decision making.

Grooming of the leaders involves long years of foreign education, largely spent in alcoholic haze and other pleasures that we can omit here, as this web site is for an all-family audience. By comparison, the theocracy from the other side of the local pond looks like a pinnacle of rationality and merit. Unfortunately, they clearly look at each other, and compete. Pro-Saudi propagandists deride Iranian habit of hanging people, often in public (I think very rare nowadays), while Iranian are very dismissive of Saudi beheadings. That said, this year both state decided to go all out in attempting the record of executions per capita. The pace, never too tepid, doubled this year -- in both countries.

Concerning the war in Yemen, from KSA point of view one should stress the positives. For example, Houthis did not manage to penetrate more than 5 kilometers from the border, even though fully half of Saudi manpower was delegated to secure the safety of the Hajj. From the fine job they did there, it is indeed the blessing that they were kept far from Yemen.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 24, 2015 9:37:33 AM | 54

Ivan @50: The anti-Semitic comments he always inserts sound canned, from a script. Tell him to work on that and try again as a different identity. Fairly sophisticated, definitely B+ work.

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 24, 2015 9:40:57 AM | 55

b says:

All the support the U.S. gives the Saudis only brings more death, destruction and misery

yep, i definitely see a pattern here.

Posted by: john | Oct 24, 2015 10:08:38 AM | 56

Truth, can sometimes be very deflating. Everyone should go back and reread.....

Guest @ 16

Jackrabbit @ 19 & 21

And last, but not least..

fairleft @ 43

Thanks for the reminders.

Posted by: ben | Oct 24, 2015 10:48:53 AM | 57

From TRNN:

U.S. Sells New Warships to Saudi Arabia Despite Warnings of War Crimes & Civilian Deaths in Yemen

Full video:

http://therealnews.com/t2/component/hwdvideoshare/viewvideo/79788

Business uber alles!

Posted by: ben | Oct 24, 2015 10:55:35 AM | 58

Remember how Bush urged Americans to go out and shop after 9/11 - that was patriotism for the masses? Saudi Arabia is the last vestige of that message for the US corporatocracy, since the masses stopped being able to shop till they dropped many Christmasses ago. Not only do the Saudis shop for whatever arms the US needs to unload, but they have thousands of royals who stream into this country heading for Niemann Marcus and other 'high end' stores. They stay at our ultra ultra hotels and don't blink an eye. They take advantage of all the elective surgery nips and tucks that we can't afford and don't need. They keep the system clocking along.

These are the womenfolk of Saudi Arabia, encouraged by their government to come experience 'freedom' - who are placated by the lure of all luxurious amenities to prop up what the one percent of one percent are doing and make everyone feel the system is working somehow. So, if and when the Saudis go down, we go down. We buy all this stuff? Ah no; they do.

As we in the US await our artificially delayed daylight savings change (delayed so we could be tempted to shop a little longer) let's raise our empty glasses to the Saudis; they've got it all, don't they?

Posted by: juliania | Oct 24, 2015 11:01:32 AM | 59

"This war on Yemen is the most stupid one I can think of. There is nothing to win for anybody. Who will tell the Saudis?"

b, please agree me to disagree.

Whoever is in control of Yemen, holds a key to the traffic to and from the mediterranean. Maybe the fear of the Saudis as well as the US is to see Iran in control of both the strait of Hormuz and the Gulf of Aden.

The passage between Djibouti and Yemen is comprised of two narrow passageways (by artillery standards) and
whoever controls Yemen can make transit through the area quite painful if not impossible.

Are chess pieces being moved for a future conflict?

Posted by: CarlD | Oct 24, 2015 11:38:32 AM | 60

@Guest 16, your right. I give Obama too much credit. But, at the Hillary Hearings it came out that his lawyers were against funding rebels, and the State Department was all in.

@BiffaBacon @35 you wrote: Gerald Celente was right. We're already in the early stages of WW3. God help us all.

Thanks for reminding me of his website.

Listening to this (interesting starting @12:00 regarding Goldman Sachs):

Trudeau – Big Promises, No Time Lines. Gerald Celente - October 22, 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL5zxvQ6kjU

Posted by: shadyl | Oct 24, 2015 11:45:35 AM | 61

@58 carlD.. carl, you seem to imply that being at war and grabbing chess pieces is cost free and doesn't come with a lot of downside.. there was no reason for saudi arabia to stir up a hornets nest in yemen, but perhaps they are worried of the possibility of their own shite population seeking greater influence and know that a dictatorship is always a fragile thing to maintain? i would suggest they are coming out of a place of fear for their own survival and i think it is warranted.. the power they have isn't warranted on the other hand - and they know it.. this is what drives the fear.. spending money on counseling would have been wiser then on military arms, but saudi dictators don't seem all that bright..

Posted by: james | Oct 24, 2015 12:50:42 PM | 62

Several Yemeni fishermen killed in Saudi-led strikes - witnesses

At least 40 people were killed, including several fishermen, when Saudi-led coalition strikes hit two Yemeni islands on the Red Sea overnight, several locals said on Saturday.
...
On Thursday, a resident in the northern province of Hajjah said coalition planes had bombed a small island in the Red Sea close to the port of Midi, killing 10 fishermen.

Air strikes by the Arab coalition have struck civilian targets at least four times in recent weeks, including a wedding party on Sept. 28 that killed 131 people.

Posted by: b | Oct 24, 2015 1:14:54 PM | 63


There are too many conspiracies’ theories here. Please stop drinking Kool-Aid. :-)

NO offense intended

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 24, 2015 1:46:58 PM | 64

Yemen">http://news.yahoo.com/yemen-officials-talks-push-al-qaida-aden-fail-163303862.htmlef="">Yemen officials say talks to push al-Qaida out of Aden fail I'm sure they tried r-e-a-l-l-y hard. Hey, Al Qaeda has given Aden segregated schools and invisible women, what could be better for the Saudi invaders?

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 24, 2015 1:49:08 PM | 65

That link was supposed to look like this: Yemen officials say talks to push al-Qaida out of Aden fail.

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 24, 2015 1:51:59 PM | 66

1. As mentioned by others here, I think KSA are under very serious threat of a revolution that leads to their being deposed.
2. Given the above, will USA defend the regime? the consequences of losing KSA could be more devastating to USA than Yom Kippur in '73 was for USSR. The potential humanitarian crisis is massive as well, if such events become violent. I would imagine that it would outsize the current migrant wave into Europe

Posted by: bbbbb | Oct 24, 2015 2:11:01 PM | 67

Piotr Berman @ 52

About a year later Aramco had the largest security breach, the network was shut down, allegedly because of an Iranian worm (part of the "proof" was that the worm used the same approach as Stuxnet that was used against Iran

I didn't know about this. So Stuxnet had unanticipated consequence of "teaching" Iranians how to build/introduce (any word how this one was introduced) a very effective/disabling worm. Gives literal credence to "what goes around comes around".

Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 24, 2015 5:07:13 PM | 68

@#62

Not condoning Saudi's abject actions.

Just putting myself in the shoes of the zioneocons to try to understand their deeds.

Posted by: CarlD | Oct 24, 2015 6:11:58 PM | 69

The idea of the Saudi Royal Family going the way of the Dodo is an incredibly satisfying thought. I can't think of a single event that would be more positive for the earth - mostly because of its certain side effects which would include everything from the elimination of Islamic terrorism to the complete isolation of Israel in the Middle East. Including, of course, the reconstruction of the Pertrodollar.

Though I have to say, I can't imagine what would replace them. Like most of the client states of the USA, all potential rivals - meaning, any capable politicians - have been killed off or imprisoned. In fact, I'd suggest that many of the "failed states" that we see are the result of this. The police or local death squads eliminate every political figure to the left of the chosen clique - which in the case of KSA means every last political figure around. There is no one to take over from them - aside from some sort of al Qaeda inspired mob. It may well be the excuse the US needs to occupy the oil fieds once and for all.

The US relationship with Saudi Arabia is one of the most revolting and one the clearest examples of the historical drift from our national myth. One of the USA's key allies is the world's darkest absolute monarchy. The Founding Fathers' would be certainly be shocked and disappointed by this development, don't you think?

------
If the troll's posts have any content at all, true or otherwise, that would be a new development.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 24, 2015 11:07:45 PM | 70

@33 Penelope:

Very interesting article, thanks.

I do find it so amazing how the world's militaries spend huge sums to build the capabilities which eliminate other capabilities they have spent huge sums on to create. It's something worth of Alice in Wonderland somehow.

I wonder how the US forces interact with these openly Nazi Ukrainian National Guardsmen. I wonder what the racial/ethnic composition of the forces the US have over there are. And I wonder too wether the United States does anything to control their brutality.... ahahhaahhaaa. Who am I kidding. Of course not.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 24, 2015 11:16:49 PM | 71

As long as the principle of "what goes around comes around" holds some of the Iranian partisans may wish to consider that it remains the ardent desire of the bloody mullahs to lead the Islamic world. Their chosen instrument is to put Israel in cockpit of the Sunni-Shia fight with the prize going to the one who takes out Israel. Hence the al-Quds bullshit, their name for Jerusalem. The Israelis were more or less minding their own business in the early 90s when the mullahs thought they could muscle in on the issue of Palestine. The Israelis got into the Iranian OODA loop and basically saw off the mullahs' threat. The more is the honour to them though I don't like their current extremism. Under Sharon they saw off perhaps the cruelest example of terrorism in the suicide bombers. The Israelis have won every fight at every level that their enemies have thrown them. I really wish them well as a country that has managed to keep a civilized life in spite of everything and only wish that they will come to an accommodation with the Palestinians and live in peace.

Posted by: Ivan | Oct 24, 2015 11:50:04 PM | 72

...
I .... only wish that they will come to an accommodation with the Palestinians and live in peace.
Posted by: Ivan | Oct 24, 2015 11:50:04 PM | 72

I doubt that.
And btw, for Palestinians, peace = piece and smaller = better for "Israel".

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 25, 2015 12:18:35 AM | 73

Ivan @50: The anti-Semitic comments he always inserts sound canned, from a script. Tell him to work on that and try again as a different identity. Fairly sophisticated, definitely B+ work.
Posted by: fairleft | Oct 24, 2015 9:40:57 AM | 55

Anti-semitism is what Jews have been doing to Semitic Palestinians for 70 years.
A lot like a Holocaust, but slower and longer.
Germany took less than 5 years to repent for its Holocaust.
Moral Equivalence, anyone?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 25, 2015 1:04:13 AM | 74

@72 ivan.. you sound like a ft apologist for israel... good luck with that around here, or anywhere for that matter..

Posted by: james | Oct 25, 2015 1:31:27 AM | 75

I am not an apologist for Israel or anyone, just keeping it real
. They are not the only moral agents in the Middle East, responsible for their actions while the Muslims are only reacting to circumstances. Each has to look to his own conscience. If you look back to the 90s recall how many the Peace Now people could call upon. The numbers were in the hundreds of thousands. Meanwhile how many Arabs did you see? Their view was that the Jews had turned soft. Jews love life, Arabs love death. The Arabs thought they could intimidate the Jews. They had gone soft. Well the Jews showed them that they could overmatch the Arabs. In as much as we see the hard face of the Israelis, the Arabs are as responsible for it as anyone.


Posted by: Ivan | Oct 25, 2015 2:58:03 AM | 76

Posted by: Ivan | Oct 25, 2015 2:58:03 AM | 76

Nothing like "the Jews" or "the Arabs". Truth is hardliners make the place unlivable for normal people who meet - Arabs and Jews - again in Berlin.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25, 2015 4:58:05 AM | 77

@77 somebody. The hardliners are all now apparently religious fanatics with Christian Zionists and Muslim head-bangers ready to die for Zion or send Jewish and Christian monkeys to hell.

Posted by: Ivan | Oct 25, 2015 6:38:07 AM | 78

Posted by: Ivan | Oct 25, 2015 6:38:07 AM | 78

Yep, belief systems, world views, whatever, are dangerous for kids.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25, 2015 7:23:03 AM | 79

@44 (continued)

Lockheed Martin, Boeing Rally Around Saudi Arabia, Wave Off Humanitarian Concerns


[USAF Col. Ret. B-52 pilot] Ronald L. Perrilloux Jr., an executive with Lockheed Martin, complained of an atmosphere of “hostile media reports” shaping the views of Congress, most of which, he said, are “patently false.”

“Another significant irritant,” Perrilloux said, “is the application of human rights laws” toward U.S. allies in the Middle East, including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates. Perrilloux argued that these countries, despite being “better partners to us than some of our NATO allies,” were being unfairly judged compared to Chinese human rights abuses.

Jeffrey Kohler, a retired Air Force lieutenant general who left the military and now work as a vice president at Boeing, declared, “We ought be encouraging that type of cooperation and facilitating and helping them with the gaps instead of just throwing stones.”

Perrilloux added that “the biggest thing we can do to help them finish the job is to provide them with the benefit of our experiences, with training of their forces, and probably replenishment of their forces.”


Revolving-door Robbers from AC/DC put in the plug for selling the Saudis more murder weapons. The military-industrial-congressional complex axis for genocide in Yemen.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 25, 2015 10:10:22 AM | 80

@77 somebody. The hardliners are all now apparently religious fanatics with Christian Zionists and Muslim head-bangers ready to die for Zion or send Jewish and Christian monkeys to hell.
Posted by: Ivan | Oct 25, 2015 6:38:07 AM | 78

... "forgetting" of course that it was Jewish people, not Palestinian people, who described Palestine as "a land without people for a people without a land."
Racist-Supremacist much?

History, lies and Histrionics by Gilad Atzmon.
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/judea-declares-war-on-obama-by-gilad-atzmon.html

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 25, 2015 11:41:06 AM | 81

News from the ill-advised, needless and vicious, elective Saudi aggression in Yemen ...

Yemen army destroys Saudi warship near Ta’izz


The Yemen army, backed by Popular Committees loyal to the Houthi Ansarullah movement, has destroyed a Saudi warship in the waters close to the southwestern province of Ta’izz.

According to local media reports on Sunday, the Yemeni forces targeted the vessel, which had regularly been shelling Yemeni coastal villages, with rockets.

Reports said that the warship was set ablaze due to the Yemeni rocket attacks and sank.

On October 10, a Saudi warship was targeted and destroyed in the southwestern coast of Yemen, in the Bab-el-Mandeb Strait, which connects the Red Sea to the Gulf of Aden.

On October 7, the Yemeni forces managed to destroy another Saudi vessel in the area, with reports saying that the sunken ship had repeatedly fired rockets on residential areas in Ta’izz.

Earlier in the day, the Yemeni army destroyed a Saudi drone in Ta’izz. The unmanned aerial vehicle was shot down in the area of Siman, in Sabir al-Mawadim District.

Similarly, on October 22, the Yemeni forces targeted a Saudi drone in the Jabal Asvad area of the provincial capital, Ta’izz.


News from the ill-advised, needless and vicious, elective Saudi pogrom against Shia at home ...

Saudi Supreme Court approves Sheikh Nimr death penalty


Mohammad al-Nimr, the prominent cleric’s brother, said in a message on social media on Sunday that the Saudi Supreme Court and an appellate court had approved the execution of the Shia cleric and authorized the Saudi Interior Ministry to carry out the sentence.

The execution warrant has been reportedly sent to Muhammad bin Naif bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, the Saudi crown prince, who is also the first deputy prime minister and the minister of interior of Saudi Arabia.

The warrant will now be sent to Saudi Arabia’s ruler Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud after the approval of the Interior Ministry.

To be implemented, the warrant must be approved by the Saudi king.

Nimr was attacked and arrested in the Qatif region, east of Saudi Arabia, in July 2012, and has been charged with undermining the kingdom’s security, making anti-government speeches, and defending political prisoners. Nimr has denied the accusations.

In October 2014, a Saudi court sentenced Sheikh Nimr to death, provoking huge condemnations and criticism in the Middle East and the world.

Ali Mohammed Baqir al-Nimr, the nephew of the prominent Saudi Shia cleric, has also been also sentenced to death over his alleged role in anti-regime protests in 2012, when he was 17 years old.


News for the the ill-advised, needless and vicious, unelected Saudis from Iran ...

Saudi Arabia to pay dearly if cleric Nimr executed: Iran


Iran’s Deputy Foreign Minister for Arab and African Affairs Hossein Amir-Abdollahian addressed Saudi authorities on the matter, saying, "The execution of Sheikh Nimr will exact a heavy price on Saudi Arabia."

The UK-based rights group Amnesty International has called Nimr’s trial “deeply flawed” and the death sentence “appalling,” saying the verdict has to be quashed.


None of this can end well for the needlessly vicious Saudi dynasty.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 25, 2015 4:19:38 PM | 82

Hoarse @81 whichever way it is spun the fact remains that the Jews as a constituent people of the old empires have a claim to a homeland. How is it that Arabs can claim anywhere upto twenty countries from the Atlantic to the Indian Oceans but the Jews none? Why do the Arabs in their turn delegitimise the existence of Israel at every turn? Ranging from refusing to allow Israeli football teams to participate in Asian leagues to ensuring that anyone visiting Israel has to have his visa stamped on a different sheet of paper so that there is no trouble at the airports. All through the time when the stupid Non-Aligned Movement was meeting I recall that the only issues were Israeli-centric. So that if an issue like the treatment of workers come up, all of the attention would be concentrated on what happens in the West Bank . As though the situation was honky-dory everywhere else. The Israelis were made the whipping boys for the inadequacies of the Turd World morons.

Posted by: Ivan | Oct 25, 2015 9:53:14 PM | 83

Who made it virtually impossible for a Jew to travel in safely in so called moderate Muslim countries like Malaysia? Unrelenting propaganda against the Jews financed by Arabs with Palestinian providing the background music has over the decades worked a great evil among the Muslims. Look to the beam in your own eyes instead of the speck in your brother's eye as the Lord Jesus Christ admonished is apposite advice for the hypocritical Muslims.

Posted by: Ivan | Oct 25, 2015 10:06:34 PM | 84

WTF?

800 Colombian Soldiers to Join Saudi-Led Forces in Yemen


Hundreds of former Colombian nationals are fighting alongside Saudi Arabian-led forces in Yemen, according to reports Sunday.

The troops include former Colombian soldiers fighting under contract with Saudi Arabia. According to Colombian newspaper El Tiempo, the first group of just under 100 Colombian troops arrived in Yemen earlier this month. The newspaper has reported the troops were set to arrive in the southern port city of Aden, which is currently under the control of Saudi Arabia and forced allied with Yemen's ousted president, Abd Rabbuh Mansur Hadi.

As many as 800 Colombian fighters could take up frontline positions under Saudi command, according to the newspaper. In recent days unconfirmed reports have surfaced the number of Colombians in Yemen may have already reached that number.


Must be CIA recruiters?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 26, 2015 12:52:36 AM | 85

Incredible! The corrupt saudis and emiratis are hiring colombian mercenaries... soon they will learn the difference between killing innocent peasants and social leaders in the south american jungles and the harsh, desert war in the arabian peninsula. More cannon fodder.

Posted by: guy | Oct 26, 2015 1:34:18 AM | 86

Ivan at 54 --

You may have noticed, Jews have no rights that our "anti-zionists" here are bound to respect.

But relax, we earlier established that they're not to be driven into the sea, merely to the shore.

Equivalence will remain false until such time as the Israelis move from brutality to actual genocide.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 26, 2015 7:54:42 AM | 87

@84 ivan... israel has created more problems for the jews then anyone could have thought up.. until israel stops acting like a prison guard ( or worse) to the people of gaza and acknowledge there own responsibility in any of this, the rest of the world will not be convinced of the superiority of anything to do with israel. that the country was created in 1948 against the consideration of those living in the area ought to help in your understanding of why israels problems continue.. founding a country based on a religion where those of a particular religion - judaism - trump all others of any other religion - ought to help in your understanding of why israel will continue to struggle as well. i am sure you know this, but being willfully blind is still no excuse..

Posted by: james | Oct 26, 2015 1:32:20 PM | 88

for anyone interested in following the ongoing hypocrisy coming out of israel - the angry arab U is a good place to start.

""Since the start of last year’s Gaza war, there have been several incidents of anti-leftist violence to go along with the attacks aimed at Palestinians: Left-wing protesters were assaulted at antiwar demonstrations in Tel Aviv and Haifa last summer, during the war; left-wing journalist Gideon Levy of Haaretz was accused of treason by a Knesset member, a crime that during wartime is punishable by death. He’s since hired bodyguards. The comedian Orna Banai lost an advertising job after an interview in which she expressed horror over Israeli actions against Palestinians. This month, people in Afula attacked an Arab correspondent for an Israeli TV network and his Jewish crew while they reported on a stabbing attack. A new bill in the Knesset encourages the thought police by turning away visitors to Israel who have supported the movement to boycott companies profiting from the occupation. On Friday, a masked Jewish settler attacked the president of leftist group Rabbis for Human Rights in a Palestinian olive grove in the West Bank."

Posted by: james | Oct 26, 2015 1:43:12 PM | 89

james at 88 --

Two problems with this.

Israel was founded in 1948 because of the prejudices of others. We Europeans persecuted the "Christ killers" for centuries over their "particular religion," but not surprisingly they only got their fill of it after the Holocaust.

So if founding one state which the adherents of the Established Church (or Assembly, Gathering of the Tribes, etc.) "trump all others of any other religion" is a bad thing, what about a whole run of states founded on such a principle? And often, with a more rigorous pattern of exclusion than Israel? These would be states like, say, Saudi Arabia, where the Koran's relegation of non-believers to second-class status is given its full flower.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 26, 2015 7:33:03 PM | 90

rufus - persecution is an ongoing issue that needs to be addressed on an ongoing basis.. change the things we can change, and use history to remind us of the foolishness of our ways in the past. what israel is doing today is really problematic for it's continuation. what israel is doing to the rights of palestinians is wrong or much worse - genocidal.. maybe it is a slow genocide, but 2 wrongs don't make any of it right..

while many western countries may have been founded on so called religious principles, more often then not they were involved in forms of persecution towards those who weren't a part of that dominant religious perspective.. because it happened in the past is no support for it happening in the present as it does in israel, or saudi arabia and other countries that i may be leaving out here.. israel is a real case in point for anyone who looks into this countries actions - present and past tense..

Posted by: james | Oct 26, 2015 8:38:01 PM | 91

in re 91.

It's a pox on both houses, isn't it? Not, a pox on both, but a little more pestilence over here.

I don't see Israelis posting many beheading or mass execution videos. Nor do they rape the widows, and proclaim them wives.

This would perhaps be medium-slow genocide?

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 26, 2015 10:30:48 PM | 92

rufus, i wouldn't make a straight connection to isis actions and israels.. sometimes it's difficult to understand where you are coming from or your intent.. this would be one of those times.

Posted by: james | Oct 27, 2015 12:22:11 AM | 93

in re 93 ==

I see no reason for this reluctance. Both are motivated by devotion to their "particular religions," and are active in the same region.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 27, 2015 1:42:59 AM | 94

Hi Rufus and James, I went limp on the Israelis after their wanton, willful killing and mayhem in Gaza last year. I surmise that was the last straw for many erstwhile 110% Israeli supporters. The Likudniks diabolically goaded the Palestinians beyond endurance, in order to break any emerging links between Hamas and the PLO to pitch for a Palestinian state. They bear full responsibility for the bloodshed. Just as the were responsible for the butchery in Lebanon in 1982. Nonetheless there is still enough blame to go around.

Posted by: Ivan | Oct 27, 2015 2:24:30 AM | 95

Following their leader ...

Saudi Arabia hits hospital run by Doctors without Borders in Yemen


Doctors without Borders (MSF) says a hospital run by the international medical group in Yemen has been hit by Saudi airstrikes.

“MSF facility in Saada [sic] Yemen was hit by several airstrikes last night with patients and staff inside the facility,” the group said in a tweet on Tuesday.


... imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Must make the US proud.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 27, 2015 5:37:09 AM | 96

Ivan at 95 --

My sympathies lie with the PLO, not so much with Hamas. The Israelis are ruthless and despicable, but not presently genocidal. I would agree, plenty of fault to go around, though I think the Israelis are seriously bogarting it.

I take comfort from the fact that not all Israelis support the status quo.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 27, 2015 8:29:18 AM | 97

@94 rufus.. i think it is very different.. israel is a recognized country, whereas isis isn't.. isis is a paid for mercenary group funded by an ideology of barbarianism... israel is none of that either.

@95 ivan.. israels actions towards the palestinians has been bad for a very long time - as i see it. there actions are not justified in any way and it is always extreme any response they give.. it is like an elephant responding to a mouse.. overkill.. their actions are working to the opposite result they are on record as stating they hope to achieve - peace.. they may have undue influence on a political leveln, but it doesn't change any of the actions they have demonstrated for many years here..

@96 - jfl.. usa is going to go down with the saudi arabia ship if they don't distance themselves from it soon..

Posted by: james | Oct 27, 2015 6:57:54 PM | 98

in re 98 --

So it's OK for insurgents to behead people then?

I hold ISIS reasonably sincere in the religious principles they so loudly proclaim, and that their paymasters support; they certainly did a number on those Greco-Roman graven images.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 27, 2015 7:07:13 PM | 99

@99 rufus.. i never said that and it is strange how you can draw a conclusion like that from what i said.. i am getting an impression in this short conversation with you the past 2 days why others hold a particular view towards you.. i guess it took my having this limited conversation to reach a similar position..

Posted by: james | Oct 28, 2015 12:41:40 AM | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.