Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 03, 2015

Kunduz Hospital Bombing Exposes U.S. Airstrike Hypocrisy

Is the U.S. still using propaganda claims that the Syrian government is willingly bombing hospitals? Or that it uses "dumb bombs" or "barrel bombs" that cause "collateral damage"? Will its proxies prepare more fake videos that allegedly show such bombings?

Well, it is time to end that nonsense because the hypocrisy is now too obvious:

Kabul, October 3, 2015: At 2:10 AM local time on Saturday October 3, the Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières’ (MSF) Trauma center in Kunduz was hit several times during sustained bombing and was very badly damaged.

Three MSF staff are confirmed dead and more than 30 are unaccounted for.
Since fighting broke out on Monday, MSF has treated 394 wounded. When the aerial attack occurred this morning we had 105 patients and their caretakers in the hospital and over 80 MSF international and national staff present.
MSF’s hospital is the only facility of its kind in the whole northeastern region of Afghanistan, providing free life- and limb-saving trauma care. MSF doctors treat all people according to their medical needs and do not make distinctions based on a patient’s ethnicity, religious beliefs or political affiliation.

MSF was hiding "terrorists" is the claim the officials make. People at the hospital were "individuals threatening the force" says the U.S. military.

A video of the aftermath shows that the MSF clinic is a single, large building with a large courtyard and  walled off from the surrounding. This was no accidental hit by a "dumb bomb" but multiple willful targeting with "smart" bombs:

MSF International @MSF
All parties to conflict, including in Kabul & Washington, were clearly informed of precise GPS coordinates of our facilities in #Kunduz

MSF International @MSF
Precise location of our #Kunduz hospital communicated to all parties on multiple occasions over past months, including on 9/29

MSF International @MSF
Bombing continued for >30 minutes after American & Afghan military officials in Kabul & Washington first informed of proximity to hospital.

The total number of confirmed dead is currently creeping up with some saying that it will reach over 50.

Meanwhile the U.S. and the Saudis are tussling over who of them was responsible for designating a wedding in Yemen as an air attack target thereby killing over 130 people.

The U.S. and others (note: not Jordan(!) which seems to have left the anti-Syrian coalition) are whining that the Russian air force targets al-Qaeda CIA mercenaries and are begging to end that. Why exactly it should do so is not said.

Obama said yesterday that he will not get into a proxy fight with Russia over Syria. But the measures he announced, more weapons to the opposition, more bombing runs, point exactly into that direction. But with protection from the Russian air force and air defense the causing of "collateral damage" to the Syrian government, like to the MFS clinic, will be a bit more complicate.

Posted by b on October 3, 2015 at 11:17 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Some interesting bits in this BBC article about helicopter fire. How could they mistake this for something other than a hospital? It has drive up areas for the ambulances.

Headline misleading from an American standpoint. This wasn't a small clinic it was a trauma hospital, the only one in northern Afghanistan.

Someone else notes all 4 BBC headlines don't mention who did the bombing

MSF notes GPS coord were given to all parties multiple times, which is standard.

Article also notes most MSF staff were Afghan.

Posted by: gemini33 | Oct 3 2015 11:54 utc | 2

This reminds me of what Israel did to UN schools and Saudi Arabia is doing in Yemen. There are merciless psychopaths sitting atop NATO. A sad sorrowful day indeed. Will there be no end to all this war and suffering?

Posted by: Andy V | Oct 3 2015 12:21 utc | 3

@Andy V@3

This reminds me of what Israel did to UN schools and Saudi Arabia is doing in Yemen. There are merciless psychopaths sitting atop NATO. A sad sorrowful day indeed. Will there be no end to all this war and suffering?

US/NATOstan/IS-rahole & their minions not-so-hidden foundation of their foreign policy is racism, all of them believe in an "innate superiority" given by "god," and their primitive accumulation of capital was done on the blood of millions of Native-Americans (US), Palestinians and Arabs (IS-rahole), Africans, Asians, etc. (Eurostan).

They have killed millions to steal their land and property, to keep their colonies going, and will continue to kill people with impunity as long as they are brown, black, or yellow. A few Afghans more or less is not a problem, they might have been "terrorists," or were taking care of wounded "terrorists," or have relatives who are "terrorists," so, who cares?

Blatant hypocrites as the US/NATOstan/IS-rahole & their minions ruling classes are, they have no sense of wrongness (remember, by "god" they were made "exceptional," or "chosen," have a "god given right" to rule the earth), and they will always justify their killings no matter where, a hospital, a school, children playing soccer on a beach, defenseless women, elders, children (Yemen.)

Thanks b for calling these criminal US/NATOstan MoFos on their utter hypocrisy, bombing a hospital they clearly knew about, while ganging up on Russia for killing cannibals, head-choppers, slave-masters, kidnappers and low-life gangsters.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 3 2015 12:59 utc | 4

A map provided by BBC implies that NATO forces assisted the government against moderate Taliban, and not against ISIS which is active in Helmand, Nangarhar etc. but not in Kunduz. I think that we should voice concern.


In my book, if the building was hit from helicopters and it was in the middle of battle zone, such mishaps do not per se imply an atrocity. Of course, hiding the information who did the shooting is not reassuring.

Extermination of wedding guests very distant from any battelfield has no such excuses, and Americans promised to assist GCC with target selection. GCC denied that they did it, and Western "concert of democracies" let KSA investigate it.


The principles of telling right of wrong remind me a philosophical jokes. How a biologist and a methodologists establish sex of a hare? Both start with catching the specimen. Biologist checks the sex organs. Methodologist releases the animal and watches carefully: a female if she run away, a male if he run away (English grammar makes the joke rather awkward.) But we can check if a killing was an atrocity or for a good cause by checking who could do it. Syrian Air Force: atrocity, Russian air force: a matter of grave concern, NATO, good deed, KSA, let's say it did not happen. (Are you sure that there was any hare here?)

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 3 2015 13:19 utc | 5

Marcie Wheeler says the bombing continued for 30 minutes after the Afgain Army notified the US to cease and desist. A tweet with an link which didn't work.

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 3 2015 13:32 utc | 6

Yes.the NYTs says airstrikes hit hospital,and Wapo says possible US airstrikes hit hospital.WTF else would it be?The Taliban have no air force.
And Israel will increase its Golan Heights settlements because of the misery of Syria.Scum incarnate.

Posted by: dahoit | Oct 3 2015 14:17 utc | 7


by the way that the US military presence in Afghanistan is completely ILLEGAL, every death by their hands is an atrocity...

...curious how such semantic dithering could inspire a good laugh.

Posted by: john | Oct 3 2015 14:33 utc | 8

Peace Prize Laureate says "We ain't tanglin' with no stinkin' Russkies.
Besides, bombing hospitals and weddings is God's work ... and a Helluva lot safer!

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 3 2015 15:00 utc | 9

Amazing how they just simply lie all the time and people believe it.

I have to tell you. When I was protesting against the Vietnam War, my “comrades” actually believed that the New York Times could not tell a lie. When I came out with my line that the NYT was all bullshit they complained that I was somehow going “way over the top”. Like conspiracy theory territory.

I guess that they have had to “change their calculus” these days.

Posted by: blues | Oct 3 2015 15:25 utc | 10


The US is being operated by war criminals. I feel like the Germans under Hitler who despised what he did.

Please world, stop our madness.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 3 2015 15:41 utc | 11

Got to ask you B;

How in the hell did you get all the way through the intertwined lies in the WaPoo article [last link]?

The lies were so thick and twisted in the WaPoo article, it overwhelmed me, I could not finish.

Posted by: S Brennan | Oct 3 2015 15:43 utc | 12

Just another " routine incident" in a chain of many others that continue for years and years and years now. Every few days "incredibly well informed, incredibly precise" western forces make an "innocent mistake" and pulverize tens, if not hundreds of civilians in countries that never even dreamed of attacking the West. Then, what do you know, a couple days ago the Bloomberg op-ed by Josh Rogin pops up, headlined "Russia may be prosecuted for war crimes"!!!. This is getting more nauseating than anything George Orwell could even think of. I guess that's how empires die, in a stench of its own excrement.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 3 2015 16:09 utc | 13

SB @ 12.
Have you wondered if the emotions you experienced were an "Intended Consequence" of feeling obliged to read such irrational dross? It's a bit like emotional blackmail. I can see the funny side of any example of gross stupidity/deception. But I'll be interested to read b's answer. If...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 3 2015 16:12 utc | 14

SB @ 12.
It helps to skim articles from the point of view of a literature/communications critic BEFORE deciding whether, or not, to read them as a consumer.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 3 2015 16:36 utc | 15

I have a feeling the public are well aware of the hypocrisy of the Western leaders, in this article in the Daily Mail comments section is overwhelmingly anti Cameron and pro Putin.

Posted by: harry law | Oct 3 2015 16:37 utc | 16

Known as of now:

The attack was by an AC-130 "spooky" gunship. A transport plane fitted with a 105mmm cannon, a 30 mm gun and machine guns. They fly at night and have excellent night vision equipment. These planes support U.S. special forces.

MSF International @MSF
From 2:08 until 3:15 AM local time today, our hospital was hit by a series of aerial bombing raids at approx 15 minute intervals #Kunduz

MSF International @MSF
UPDATE: 12 staff members and at least 7 patients were killed; 37 people were injured including 19 staff members. #Kunduz #Afghanistan

Interesting is this one sentence from the NYT

"The hospital treated the wounded from all sides of the conflict, a policy that has long irked the Afghan security forces."

This wasn't a mistake or "collateral damage". This was intent.

Who directed the smashing of the hospital? U.S. spec ops? Afghan spec ops?

Posted by: b | Oct 3 2015 16:37 utc | 17

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." - Abraham Lincoln

I think the capacity of western MSM to shape a public opinion is greatly diminished. The lies and hypocrisy are simply too obvious.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 3 2015 16:49 utc | 18

No wonder people hate the US.

Posted by: Bardi | Oct 3 2015 17:01 utc | 19

Adding to my comment in 17

U.S. troops had raided a hospital in Helmand in 2009

A Swedish aid agency said Monday that American soldiers stormed through one of its hospitals in Afghanistan last week, searching men’s and women’s wards for wounded Taliban fighters, breaking down doors and tying up hospital staff members and visitors./blockquote>

The hospital in Kunduz was raided by Afghan spec ops in July

The French aid group said its hospital was temporarily closed to new patients after armed soldiers had entered and behaved violently towards staff.

"This incident demonstrates a serious lack of respect for the medical mission, which is safeguarded under international humanitarian law," MSF said in a statement.

A staff member who works for the aid group said, "The foreign doctors tried to stop the Afghan Special Operations guys, but they went in anyway, searching the hospital."

So was this a raid gone bad? Or was the intent to destroy a hospital that the Afghan and/or U.S. special operation folks hated?

Posted by: b | Oct 3 2015 17:05 utc | 20

@ 20.
Yeah... Remember the (famous) "Iraq Hospital Rescue" beat-up?
The Iraqi doctors had patched up a wounded US Soldier-ette and when she was stable they rang the Yanks to tell them where they could collect her. Naturally/Automatically, the Yanks smashed their way into the hospital, "rescued" her from the Dastardly Eye-Rackies, and re-told the story as a worldwide news fairytale about Brave, Courageous & Bold Yankees. And pinned a medal on the soldier-ette who, soon after, blew the whistle on her rescuers because she felt the Iraqis doctors had been so badly misrepresented by her anti-Heroic rescuers.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 3 2015 17:41 utc | 21

At least 16 killed at Afghan hospital after U.S. air strike

An airstrike hit a hospital run by Medecins Sans Frontieres in the Afghan city of Kunduz on Saturday, killing at least 16 people in what the U.S. military called possible "collateral damage" in the battle to oust Taliban insurgents.

Frantic MSF staff phoned military officials at NATO in Kabul and Washington after the attack, and bombs continued to rain down near the medical facility for nearly an hour, one official from the aid group said.

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 3 2015 18:07 utc | 22

US Continued Bombing Afghan Hospital Despite MSF Pleas

A caretaker for the MSF hospital, Abdul Manar, has told Al Jazeera children were among the civilians killed in the bombardment.

“I could hear them screaming for help inside the hospital while it was set ablaze by the bombing. We are terrified and speechless,” Manar stated.

They've been doing this since 2001. Soon it will be 15 years. There are no longer any protests in the Western world. This is what Putin is ending in Syriaq.

On the basis of international law we must join efforts to address the problems that all of us are facing, and create a genuinely broad, international coalition against terrorism, similar to the anti-Hitler coalition, it could unite a broad range of forces resolutely resisting those that, just like NAZIs, sow evil and hatred of human kind.

The Chinese and other fence straddlers need to be asked, 'Which side are you on?' They don't have to declare war on NATO, but they do have to answer the question, make it clear which side they are on. It might cost them a few bucks. It's cost far too many lives already. It's difficult to imagine 'win-win' with the butchers of NATO. How do you do that Xi? They bomb hospitals, destroy whole nations, and you stay silent? That's clearly a win for US/EU/NATO, What's the 'win' for you there?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 3 2015 18:31 utc | 23

Ah man, seems the USA can't even make a show of being a "good guy" for two days. You think the call would go out "we're running an information operation against the Russians, accusing them of all sorts of nasty stuff. So whatever you do, just hold off from any especially egregious war crimes. A couple of weeks is all we need..."

But no. Can't even manage that. But that's US policy these days. The hypocrisy has been turned to eleven (much US policy has a Spinal Tap feel to it anyway).

@Piotr Berman #5 - your last bit hits it exactly on the head. No morality, no honesty - all hypocrisy. They presume that the louder they scream "Assad and his barrel bombs!" no one will hear the cries of the civilians dying under their guns. Maybe that works in the "six media conglomerates" USA, but across the globe, no one buys this shit anymore. No one believes that it is better to be killed by a US C-130 than by a Syrian dumb bomb.

"I guess that's how empires die, in a stench of its own excrement." Certainly this is true. It should be carved into the facade of the Capitol before it gets even worse.

Personally, I think this all started when they covered up Picasso's "Guernica" during the UN debate on the Iraq War (not exactly sure which episode it was in that, maybe Colin Powell's "address"). The whole point of that painting was to show that war is most certainly NOT the high-falutin talk of leaders claiming "self-defence" or "just wars". Its point is to show what war really, really is - the little people being killed indiscriminately. And the minute those little people dying become an afterthought, its over.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 3 2015 18:37 utc | 24

I said: "much US policy has a Spinal Tap feel to it anyway" but should have added "if Spinal Tap was the story of a gang of mass murders, and not a rock band".

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 3 2015 18:38 utc | 25

new usa/west motto : ''don't bomb our mercenaries.. they're good terrorists'' qaeda 2 lite..

Posted by: james | Oct 3 2015 18:45 utc | 26

@gemini -- just look at those photos in the bbc piece. Clearly, these people have nothing, even at this place of healing. Yet it must be destroyed.

Henry "Anything that flies on anything that moves" Kissinger must be pleased.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 3 2015 18:48 utc | 27

One Day After Warning Russia of Civilian Casualties, the U.S. Bombs a Hospital in Afghanistan

This strike on a hospital in Afghanistan comes days after the Saudi-led coalition bombed a wedding in Yemen that killed more than 130 people. After days of silence from the U.S. Government – which has actively participated from the start in the heinous bombing of Yemen – Ambassador Power finally acknowledged the wedding massacre, but treated it like some natural disaster that has nothing to do with the U.S.: “Terrible news from Yemen of killing of innocent civilians & aid workers. Urgently need pol solution to crisis,” she tweeted.

If the US were not complicit in these terrorist acts, if they wanted them to end, they would simply stop committing such atrocities themselves and end funding and support for Israel, the KSA, Da'esh and all the other heads of the al-CIA-ea hydra in Syria and Iraq.

The US has been engaged in a world-wide series of aggressive wars and terrorism since the start of the millennium ... a little earlier in Yugoslavia ... and the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate continues to oversee those criminal acts and will do so until he's told not to by those who control him. Which apparently will never happen.

He never was an independent actor, only the willing assassin for hire in service to finance capital and the MIC. Nonetheless he is the POTUS and must bear 100% responsibility for all the US' war crimes during his tenure. He has the power - though obviously not the will - to end all this in an instant.

Speaking to the nation just three days ago about the Oregon shooting spree, Barack Obama said: “This is a political choice that we make, to allow this to happen every few months…” That applies to a lot more than that incident.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 3 2015 19:16 utc | 28

Does the US Military have a Standard Operating Procedure for apologising to dead people?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 3 2015 19:22 utc | 29

This is was a deliberate evil act, not only to destroy the hospital that treats the wounded, but since the Taliban took over Kunduz - be it even temporarily - any hospital attack by the US is a tactic so to weaken enemy forces.
No treatment opportunities, means less soldiers/enemies on the battlefield for the US to kill.
And even if the hospital is used to treat returning Afghan soldier puppets later in Kunduz if they got back control, the murderous racism of the US Empire couldn't give a shit about their ' rag-headed' cannon fodder.

It's also a murderous warning to others Aid agencies that work against the Empire in any way.

Remember in Iraq when US tanks fired at journalists in that building. Or how would about the planed destruction of water and electrical plants and other essential social services by US troops in Iraq and Afghnistan that number in hundreds of criminally despicable examples.

The evil US empire has such an immense killer contempt of anyone that resists, or works against it in any way, that all its crimes are considered deliberate to myself, and never surprising or unexpected.

PS. And just the supreme ironic timing of this atrocity straight after the propaganda onslaught against Russian airstrikes in Syria as dumb bombs, just proves the killer clown nature of the evil US Empire

Posted by: tom | Oct 3 2015 19:25 utc | 30

I have read jfl ask twice now for explicit China support of Russia. I see that as a nice to have but since I read about China/Russia doing a 1-2 week joint military thing less than 6 weeks ago, I see clearly who China supports implicitly.

Some of this shit is above my pay grade but if one keeps their eyes open they can maybe catch the little news that portends trends.

China is playing the heavy in the finance area with the development of the AIIB and now all the transaction and exchange clearing house back room sort of infrastructure.

The Glass Bead Game is on.......grin I was beginning to think I would not get to see this much social movement in my lifetime.

Keep hoping the leaders love humanity's children and their potential future.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 3 2015 20:11 utc | 31

MMAR @13,

"This is getting more nauseating than anything George Orwell could even think of. I guess that's how empires die, in a stench of its own excrement."

No, honey, excrement is natural by comparison. This is like a psychopath who goes into a house and kills all five people including the baby, and then he sits down at their kitchen table and has himself a bowl of Cheerios.

I mean there is something WRONG w those people. Or maybe ME because I keep laffin' at their fantasy fibs. I mean there's lies, then there's transparent lies. And then there's lies like wearing a huge sign that says "I am a liar." (and a poor loser)

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 3 2015 20:16 utc | 32


Makes me wonder who the contractors were and was the hospital Amerikas way of getting even?

Posted by: jo6pac | Oct 3 2015 20:17 utc | 33

Not a bad time for this "accident" to occur, with attention firmly on Russia's "collateral damage" in Syria.

Still, you can't really blame them. MSF has been aiding Al-Nusra fighters in Syria for years - treating them today so they kill as many Syrian soldiers tomorrow.

If Taliban fighters have been treated by MSF at this facility since at least 2009, it's a wonder they haven't been victims of "accidents" earlier.

Sanctimonious wankers, like HRW.

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Oct 3 2015 20:18 utc | 34

Pat Bateman says:

Still, you can't really blame them. MSF has been aiding Al-Nusra fighters in Syria for years

like i said to you a couple of threads ago, "you should just shut the fuck up."

Whatsoever house I may enter, my visit shall be for the convenience and advantage of the patient; and I will willingly refrain from doing any injury or wrong from falsehood, and (in an especial manner) from acts of an amorous nature, whatever may be the rank of those who it may be my duty to cure, whether mistress or servant, bond or free.

(from the original version of the Hippocratic Oath)

Posted by: john | Oct 3 2015 20:42 utc | 35

I don't understand why everyone's acting surprised here. This is a classic NATO double standard just taking its course. Their bombs are always "smart" and always hit their target. What's so hard to understand here?

Suddenly all msm, who just yesterday were ripping their hearts out over some Russian air strikes and civilian casualties have gone quiet. They're waiting for this incident to blow over(1 week max - people generally have very short memory) so they can pick up from where they left off.

There will be no UN inquiry and no war crimes probe. The strike in Kunduz is proof that some bombs are definitely smarter than others.

Posted by: Zico | Oct 3 2015 20:47 utc | 36

@31 psycho

Three times.

Productive Xi-Obama summit generates many areas for cooperation: former envoy

That's the lead at xinhuanet. Coalition against terrorism? What coalition against terrorism? Just 'win-win' and red envelopes in the Plutocrats' Republic of China. At least that's the image they are very purposefully projecting. I wanna believe, too. The PRC is just actively signalling me that I'd be a fool to do so.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 3 2015 21:14 utc | 37

@34 Your insults, directed at brave doctors and support staff, some of who have lost their lives or been severly injured in the very recent horrific assault are despicable and people such as yourself do not belong on a forum such as this one.

In the words of MSF: "MSF’s hospital is the only facility of its kind in the north-eastern region of Afghanistan. MSF treats all people according to their medical needs and does not make any distinctions based on a patient’s ethnicity, religious beliefs or political affiliation.
Syria: On January 2, 2014, ISIS abducted 13 MSF staff members. Among them were eight Syrian colleagues who were released after a few hours. The remaining five international staff members were held captive for up to five months. The abduction led to the withdrawal of MSF’s international teams and the closure of health facilities in IS held areas."

Posted by: Lochearn | Oct 3 2015 21:26 utc | 38

I am just really hoping that this isn't the PRC stroking Russia into exposing her underbelly, then slamming the door on them after a ZioCon false flag. Then the PRC would have both the USSA and Siberia in their talons. My concern is that China is laying back because another deal was cut somewhere with the Oligarch Mafia. Sun Tzu would do what in this arena??

Posted by: BOG | Oct 3 2015 21:29 utc | 39

It's a big issue, bombing a hospital, but tomorrow we'll be back to how evil Asad is. It won't make any difference.

However the argument has ceased to work. Launching a

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 3 2015 21:30 utc | 40

*Launching a war against Asad, by mistake from a war against ISIS, will no longer work.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 3 2015 21:32 utc | 41

However, I'm still waiting to to see what the results of a Russian campaign of bombing in Idlib are going to be. Will the Asad forces advance, or are they too tired?

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 3 2015 21:41 utc | 42

@42 The story of the Summer was Assad's forces withdrawing/collapsing and being abandoned by Moscow. Russia isn't reacting in response to the recent uptick in refugees into Europe. It's likely Syrians forces have been pulled off fiercer fighting in preparation for a counter offensive. The Iranians are simultaneously mobilizing forces. I wouldn't be surprised if the Western rhetoric bringing Syria to the forefront and renewed calls for a no fly zone at the beginning of September was motivated by fear the Russians were moving in. Hiding troop movements is difficult. They knew the Russians were coming, and the Chinese still dispatched their carrier to Syria. This is a long planned operation. After all, every media outlet was surprisingly on script. Usually, there is hesitation or generic reporting. Even now officialdom has gone dark over Afghanistan as opposed to presenting the United front they had against Russia.

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Oct 3 2015 22:04 utc | 43

@34--Sounds like the same puke who posted similar crap on the CommonDreams MSF article comments thread. Too bad M*A*S*H never had an episode as accurate; it unfortunately made people sympathize with the Outlaw Empire's slaughter of Koreans, North and South--70% died, yet too few ever mention Genocide.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 3 2015 22:08 utc | 44


Posted by: ALAN | Oct 3 2015 22:13 utc | 45


Do not address me unless I address you.


Likewise. This is the same hasbara we've heard for years from the Israelis when Nusra fighters are treated in their hospitals - stitched up and sent on their way to kill more Iranian, Hezbollah and Syrian troops as they fight around the Golan. Perhaps you admire Israel, but I don't.

"do not belong on a forum such as this one"

And what might that be? Where nothing is spoken of the deaths of Syrian civilians under Government airstrikes yet we are to mourn those claimed by the Americans and cry "what about the children!?"

I'd rather be consistent than a hypocrite. Sanctimonious wankers.

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Oct 3 2015 22:14 utc | 46

Just watched a Gotham episode, in which a father lives a letter to the son. The letter says "Bruce, you have to choose between happiness and the truth, it's impossible to have both"...don't remember if I heard it first elsewhere, but it seems like a valid dilemma to me. Since America was founded on the "pursuit of happiness", then maybe it simply has to banish the truth.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 3 2015 22:19 utc | 47

"leaves a letter", of course.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 3 2015 22:20 utc | 48

When you post on the internet, you address everybody, and anyone can reply to your post, no permission needed.

Having said that, I agree that MSF and HRW are both wretched outfits, and they deserve every bomb they get.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 3 2015 22:25 utc | 49

HRW = Human Rights Watch = CIA owned organization.

Posted by: fast freddy | Oct 3 2015 23:08 utc | 50

From Zero Hedge: Russia having some sort of diplomatic video conference I loved this snippet:

It is also known that Elissa Slotkin expressed in the negotiations concern that Russia is striking not only the militants of the “Islamic state” but other groups of terrorists, which the US considers “moderate opposition to Assad” and supports them.

The response of the representatives of the Russian Defense Ministry is unclear, but apparently, the general sense was that “We can not discriminate between the different shades of ‘crap’. So we will hammer everyone who shoots at the soldiers of the legitimate government of Syria, at whose request we are here”.

And the Americans had to accept it. Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said that the U.S. government will not use U.S. air power to protect the “moderate rebels”.

Ha! Nice of them. They've already admitted they can't access Russia's 'no-fly" w/o getting radar painted.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 3 2015 23:33 utc | 51

@S Brennan@12

Got to ask you B;

How in the hell did you get all the way through the intertwined lies in the WaPoo article [last link]?

The lies were so thick and twisted in the WaPoo article, it overwhelmed me, I could not finish.

You need some Gore-Tex chest waders, or you may ask b which ones are the best. I am sure his waders cover up to the neck, as he is wading through thick piles of MSM shit day in and day out.

I rarely go through the links b posts to make his points, out of curiosity I went through all of them on this post today, and then I could understand your predicament after reading the WaPo lies.

But there are more.

Look at this "gem" from the AP link he provided, quotes in bold are mine,

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Confusion reigned in the wake of the deadly bombing Saturday of a hospital compound in the northern Afghan city of Kunduz run by the international medical charity Doctors Without Borders, which killed at least 19 people and wounded dozens more. It remains unclear exactly who bombed the hospital and the charity has demanded an investigation into the incident.

Doctors Without Borders said that "all indications" pointed to the international military coalition as responsible for the bombing and called for an independent investigation. The U.S. Defense Secretary, Ash Carter said an inquiry is underway into whether the carnage at the clinic was caused by an airstrike from an American fighter jet, while Afghan officials said helicopter gunships had returned fire from Taliban fighters hiding in the compound.[...]

[...]The charity did not say whether insurgents were present, and it was not immediately clear whether the staffers were killed by the Taliban, government or U.S. forces. The group said another 30 people were still missing after the incident.

AP video of the compound showed burning buildings with firearms — automatic rifles and at least one Russian-made machine gun — on the windowsills pointed outward.[...]

[...]It said that from 2:08 a.m. to 3:15 a.m. Saturday, the hospital was hit by bombs at 15-minute intervals. It quoted Kunduz-based doctor Heman Nagarathnam saying that planes repeatedly circled overhead during that time.[...]

[...]The confusion over the airstrike overshadowed reports of human rights abuses and widespread looting committed by the Taliban before they began their retreat, leaving behind a city without water or electricity, and rapidly dwindling food and medicine supplies as roads into Kunduz were mined by the insurgents to thwart the government assault.[...]

[...]The Ministry of Defense said "terrorists" armed with light and heavy weapons had entered the hospital compound and used "the buildings and the people inside as a shield" while firing on security forces. Brig. Gen. Dawlat Waziri, the ministry's deputy spokesman, told The Associated Press that helicopter gunships fired on the militants, causing damage to the buildings.

Interior Ministry spokesman Sediq Sediqqi said 10 to 15 "terrorists" had been hiding in the hospital at the time of the strike. "All of the terrorists were killed but we also lost doctors," he said. He said 80 staff members at the hospital, including 15 foreigners, had been taken to safety. He did not say what sort of strike had damaged the compound.

But Doctors Without Borders said "all indications currently point to the bombing being carried out by international coalition forces."

The attack was a "grave violation of international humanitarian law," it added. The MSF statement made no mention of whether Taliban fighters were present in the hospital.[...]


"Confusion reigned..." at the beginning permeates the rest of the lies, and it is used again down below, "The confusion over the airstrike..."

Once "confusion reigns" the rest is easy, and Ash Carter comes into the confusion, clarifying there will be the customary inquiry "into whether the carnage at the clinic was caused by an airstrike from an American fighter jet, while Afghan officials said helicopter gunships had returned fire from Taliban fighters hiding in the compound."

Furthermore, "The charity did not say whether insurgents were present, and it was not immediately clear whether the staffers were killed by the Taliban, government or U.S. forces. The group said another 30 people were still missing after the incident."

More confusion.

Ah, and they found the reason for the bombing, a "Russian-made machine gun — on the windowsills pointed outward." Those pesky Russians move quickly.

And to top it all, the ultimate hypocrisy and lie, "All of the terrorists were killed but we also lost doctors." We? The royal we? The doctors were not "theirs," they were not government-affiliated.

Yes, S. Brennan, now I completely understand your feelings. One needs an airsickness bag to read the MSM lies nowadays.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 3 2015 23:37 utc | 52

Egypt came out in support of Russia. Huge!

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 3 2015 23:44 utc | 53

@52 Lone Wolf

Thanks for the parsing of the BS so I don't have to.


One more comment about China. They call themselves communist and restrict property ownership by 99 year leases. Can their party process and members be compromised by the world of private finance? I think they have been and continue to be compromised to a degree necessary to work within the current private finance bastardized US Reserve Currency, IMF, World Bank, etc. structure. But like I said above, they are working to support a different way which i see as very positive.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 4 2015 0:02 utc | 54

OT - can someone help me out with dispelling this myth about assad dropping or using barrel bombs? thanks..

Posted by: james | Oct 4 2015 0:17 utc | 55

Egypt says Russia's intervention in Syria will counter terrorism

Russia's intervention in Syria will curtail the spread of terrorism and help deal a fatal blow to Islamic State in the war-torn country, Egypt's Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry said on Saturday.

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 4 2015 0:17 utc | 56

Y'all seem to think that it requires a special explanation as to WHY the hospital was hit.
Most bomber pilots probably start out as normal people, but aren't they given certain GPS tardeting by their commanders? And isn't the ability for moral introspection greatly debilitated here in the US? And pilots are paid really well. I blame the pilot, but what I need to indicate to you is that at the top of the whole power structure-- outside of the military, at the level of those who choose whether we go to war and for what purposes, are people whose fell aim in life is to destroy the existing world civilization so that they can bring into being a very dark world controlled by them.

When you look for an "explanation" for bombing the hospital I have to conclude that you truly don't understand or have forgotten what "the planners" are. So forgive me, but I remind you w a leaked document of those who monitored the effect of the sanctions on Iraq. Two people who were nominally in charge did protest then resign, but obviously the following was a PLANNED outcome & half a million children died:

"The later-leaked U.S. Defense Intelligence document entitled “Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities” expresses the moral DNA at work. I cite the key lines of U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency reports because they reveal the character of the supreme moral goal and its strategic planning.“With no domestic sources of water treatment replacement or chemicals like chlorine”and “laden with biological pollutants and bacteria”, the leaked Defense Intelligence Agency report says (italics added), “epidemics of such diseases as cholera, hepatitis, and typhoid” will “probably take six months before the [drinking and sewage water] system is fully degraded”.

"The document continues, Conditions are favorable for communicable disease outbreaks [by the one-way air bombing] with the “most likely diseases during next sixty-ninety days of diarrheal diseases (particularly children) acute respiratory diseases (colds and influenza); typhoid; hepatitis (particularly children); measles, diphtheria, and pertussis (particularly children); meningitis including meningococcal (particularly children), cholera”. “Medical Problems in Iraq”, dated March 15, 1991, reports that the “water is less than 5 percent of the original supply – - diarrhea is four times above normal levels – - Conditions in Baghdad remain favorable for disease outbreaks”. The fifth document in June reports “almost all medicines in critically short supply” and “Gastroenteritis killing children – - in the south, 80 percent of the deaths are children”.[xxx]

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 4 2015 0:22 utc | 57

from b's WaPo link:

...the Russians requested U.S. intelligence on possible Islamic State targets, according to a senior administration official, one of several who discussed internal discussions on the condition of anonymity.

“The answer we gave is that we cannot coordinate with you if you’re fighting the Syrian opposition. . . . We’re not going to make their task any easier if their fight is the wrong fight,” the official said.

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 4 2015 0:30 utc | 58

Sounds mad and irrational but noticed just before the US causes a HR abuse, a tragic shooting occures in the US, recent is Oregon or is that just bad luck? Premeditated distraction???

Posted by: Kevin | Oct 4 2015 0:35 utc | 59

That's good detective work - uncovering a grain of truth in a mountain of lies. Most people wouldn't even notice just how self-incriminating those two phrases are.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 4 2015 0:42 utc | 60

@46 PB

I think the difference between the Israelis and MSF is that the Israelis only patch up al Nusra and ISIS - act as al-CIA-da's field hospital - whereas MSF patch up anyone who's hurt in the war. You don't blow up hospitals in either case ... or you might, but I wouldn't.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4 2015 0:44 utc | 61

@54 psycho

Well, you're a believer. I'm not yet, I just wanna believe. There remain obstacles to my faith. The Communists - the Party members who run the country - are certainly capitalists and not communists, although there are as certainly memories among the Chinese people of the good things that existed prior to the capitalist fork in the road as taken. As in all states and nations it's the ordinary people who are right and the oligarchs who are wrong. The oligarchs do deem to be cultivating a dependent middle class, as support against the people, as oligarchs do everywhere.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4 2015 0:54 utc | 62

According to Marxist theory, you can't achieve communism without going through capitalism first. Then comes socialism, and only after that - communism.
Communism boils down to the people living in super-productive communes. It means no countries, no governments, no money. You get whatever you want, when you want it, at request. It's a nirvana, a paradise on Earth.
China's is "communist" only in its aspirations. Otherwise, it's a capitalist country with a mixed economy.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 4 2015 1:05 utc | 63

Don't think I saw this here yet.

Okay, they've gone full retard:

FOX News -- Pentagon weighs using force to protect US-backed Syria rebels targeted by Russia -- October 02, 2015

Senior U.S. military leaders and defense officials are debating whether military force should be used to protect Washington-backed Syrian rebels who have come under attack by Russian airstrikes in recent days.

The Associated Press reported early Friday that the question was part of a broader debate within the Pentagon about the the broader dilemma of how the administration should respond to what White House press secretary Josh Earnest described as Russia's "indiscriminate military operations against the Syrian opposition."

Tensions between the U.S. and Russia are escalating over Russian airstrikes that are serving to strengthen Syrian President Bashar Assad by targeting the so-called "moderate" rebels rather than hitting Islamic State (ISIS) fighters it promised to attack.

Katy bar the door.

Posted by: blues | Oct 4 2015 1:24 utc | 64

@62 mmarr

Marx was/is a very good - the best? - analyst of capital. As a forward thinking political theorist ... not so much.

China is a capitalist country with a very different history than the West. But capitalism is the great 'leveler' of nation states?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4 2015 1:32 utc | 65

Sounds like there are crazy people in the Pentagon.

Posted by: lysia | Oct 4 2015 1:35 utc | 66

@64 blues

Pentagon weighs using force to protect US-backed al Qaeda rebels targeted by Russia

Think that will sell?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4 2015 1:36 utc | 67


make that

Pentagon weighs using force to protect US-backed al Qaeda insurgents in Syria targeted by Russia

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4 2015 1:38 utc | 68


My bad for using an ".....ism" name when we all know those "....isms" are myth.

I repeatedly state in comments here about my pet tenets of Western social organization, private finance ad ongoing accumulation of property through inheritance. While China does not have an inheritance "tax" at this time they own all the property and only let you lease it for 40 -70 years depending on usage.

I am not defending one ism over another. I just want to end the centuries old arrangement of private finance and ongoing accumulation of property by families that "contribute" to the class system. I believe these tenets of our system are detrimental to the evolution of our species.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 4 2015 1:43 utc | 69

OT some more details on the Mecca stampede

Posted by: Mina | Oct 4 2015 2:08 utc | 70

Check out the despicable Kenneth Roth on Twitter:

@KenRoth: Kunduz attack is awful, but recall that Assad attacks hospitals deliberately all the time.

Posted by: tom | Oct 4 2015 2:39 utc | 71

Bombing residential areas to punish just one guy, the Saudis can do that too

Posted by: Mina | Oct 4 2015 2:57 utc | 73

Iraq and the KRG in full support of Russia: Come and help us fight ISIS!

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 4 2015 3:19 utc | 74

Obama calls US airstrike on Afghan hospital ‘tragic’

"On behalf of the American people, I extend my deepest condolences to the medical professionals and other civilians killed and injured in the tragic incident at a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz ..."

Obama’s remarks about mass shooting at Oregon community college

... It's not enough. It does not capture the heartache and grief and anger that we should feel. And it does nothing to prevent this carnage from being inflicted someplace else... next week, or a couple of months from now. ... Somehow this has become routine. The reporting is routine. My response here at this podium ends up being routine. The conversation in the aftermath of it. We've become numb to this. ... This is a political choice that we make to allow this to happen ... We collectively are answerable to those families who lose their loved ones because of our inaction.

I'd ask the American people to think about how they can get our government to change ... And that will require a change of politics on this issue. And it will require that the American people, individually..., when you decide to vote for somebody, are making a determination as to whether this cause of continuing death for innocent people should be a relevant factor in your decision.

If you think this is a problem, then you should expect your elected officials to reflect your views.

Clearly elephants and donkeys cannot be expected to reflect our views, they do not work for us. They work for the TNCs and the individual plutocrats who own them.

Clearly we need, over the course of the next 401 days, to organize within our 175,000 precincts, to hold our own primaries, to select our own candidates for federal office from among ourselves, ordinary people; mindful of the larger constituencies we compose, we need to come up with candidates who can win a majority of our votes in each of our constituencies and then to write those candidates' names onto our ballots on 8 Novemeber 2016.

No more freakshows, no more least of nothing but evil, the real thing. We can do anything we want to do. What's to stop us? Our own timidity, our own inertia at rest.

No reason at all we cannot seize power in America. Millions of people in hundreds of countries around the world wish it were as easy for them to seize power as it is for us Americans. I cannot speak for Europeans, but I imagine the same may be said for them.

The only thing holding us back is ourselves.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4 2015 3:24 utc | 75

ISIS is fleeing Syria)

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 4 2015 3:56 utc | 76

@64 "FOX News -- Pentagon weighs using force to protect US-backed Syria rebels targeted by Russia"

That "weighing" will last about as long as it will take the Pentagon to focus-group this question:
Do you think we can sell the public on the idea that it is OK to protect "our terrorists"?

The answer from the focus-group will be this: Are. You. Stark. Raving. Mad?

Yes, I know, Washington is full of stark-raving-mad people. But I also know that the secret to being stark-raving-mad is not to let it show.

And this is a fact: claiming that it is A-OK to protect terrorists so long as you regard them as "your terrorists" exposes you as a stark-raving-madman.

Which might just work if you were a Saudi Crown Prince.
It definitely isn't going to work if you are a Pentagon Policy Wonk.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 4 2015 5:03 utc | 77

@71 "@KenRoth: Kunduz attack is awful, but recall that Assad attacks hospitals deliberately all the time."

The accusation is thrown at Assad many times, and each time Assad responds with a simple question: why on Earth would anyone think that doing that is a sensible use of my limited military resources?

And... Assad is quite right - deliberately bombing a hospital makes absolutely no sense from his PoV.
It gives him no military advantage.
It gives him no political leverage.
It gives him no leg-up in the "hearts and minds" battle.
It would do nothing but demonise him.

Ken Roth is very clearly demonising Assad.

And it is demonization of the crudest type: Assad does evil things because he is evil, and we know that he is evil because... he does evil things... and the reason why he does evil things is because... he is evil.

Cut to the chase, Ken.

Explain to us all **why** Assad would think that it is a good idea to deliberately attack hospitals.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 4 2015 5:14 utc | 78

@ 35, 38

Yes, doctors are suppose to be noble, indiscriminate and neutral. Are they? Some are genuine heroes, while some others are simply paid to be terrorists doctors (all of MSF hospitals that I know off in Syria are in terrorists areas, dont pro-government areas need doctors too? Neutrality my ass), to help them to kill as many soldiers as possible, which automatically includes massive civilian deaths too.

At the same time, due to relatively free movement, some are also spying for Al-CIAda. The list wouldnt be complete without mentioning MSF sometimes serves as propaganda tool (much like HRW, Amnesty, etc). Just look at those crocodile tears over "barrel bombs" and outcries for intervention for protection from "evil Assad". I was surprised though MSF didnt directly blamed Assad for CW attacks, still implied he might be responsible.

Wars are always ugly, especially initiated by the West, which also always include some corrupt doctors and humanitarians, journalists (often CIA, Mi6, etc. agents), etc. West perfected tactics to wage wars and propaganda on all levels possible.

Posted by: Harry | Oct 4 2015 5:40 utc | 79

Know who has a far worse recored of attacking hospitals Kenneth Roth ? - Your US and Israeli terrorist state paymasters.

Posted by: tom | Oct 4 2015 5:49 utc | 80

Here is Reuters: "KABUL - An air strike, probably carried out by U.S.-led coalition forces, killed 19 staff and patients, including three children, in a hospital run by Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) in the northern Afghan city of Kunduz, the aid group said."

Who is flying high on amphetamines there? It surely is the US Airforce.

Better give it to the Dutch to investigate -- based on their extensive non-investigation of MH17 they'll never find an answer!

Posted by: doveman | Oct 4 2015 6:11 utc | 81

Psychohistorian @54,

“ Can the Chinese party process and members be compromised by the world of private finance? I think they have been and continue to be compromised to a degree necessary to work within the current private finance bastardized US Reserve Currency, IMF, World Bank, etc. structure.”

I need to tell you about some China things, but the more urgent is Russia’s circumstance & it’s lengthy to explain, so I wd like to save this China question of yours to answer after we have dealt a while w Russia. On Russia’s predicament, she must very soon devise a way to rule the Russian Central Bank, which is currently under the control of the IMF/Fed system:. From rusvena:

“Most recently, the publication Euromoney has recognized Elvira Nabiullina the best Central Bank manager in the world.
“According to the economist Pavel Rykov, inept Russian financial authorities have led to disastrous consequences. About this he wrote in his blog.
“Well, at least Russia is first in the group of underdeveloped African countries such as Malawi, Ghana, Sudan. Well, what do you want? Best Manager of the Central Bank according to the West! How does need to be a troll, with the highest degree of brutality, to award the status of the best head of the Central Bank of the world to a woman who almost crashed the Russian banking system, paralyzed the loan, the debt market has frozen investment in the country, which has led to the impoverishment of millions of citizens and bankruptcy of thousands of small companies? The RCB worked as a weapon of mass destruction for the country.”

This will make more sense if you also read my comment on the previous thread (“Snuff”) @ 88, where there is also a link. Russia’s difficulties cd soon become a flat-out emergency.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 4 2015 6:59 utc | 82

James @ 55, Barrel bombs are just low tech bombs. US used ‘em in Viet Nam & other places. Because they are not precision, they may kill more civilians. However, the way modern warfare is conducted is that there is an assumptin that soon after the shooting starts the civilians have fled.

Therefore the Syrian Army uses whatever munitions it has. Doubtless it kills more civilians accidentally than does ISIS-- but then it kills none purposely. Obviously the terrorists take cover in the buildings & there’s no other way to dislodge them/kill them.
It’s silly for US to criticize barrel bombs as more deadly, since it has used “depleted” uranium munitions. Hellfire missiles just kill everything within a certain radius-- quite gruesome method. Also US refuses to sign UN prohibition against cluster bombs. insists they can be used in certain circumstances humanely.

Kevin @ 59,
Re: the Oregon shooting, I haven’t followed it. Anybody know whether it’s a false flag, or is it a hoax (non-incident)?
Kevin, I think they are tempted to actually try to disarm citizens soon, cuz the natives are getting restless.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 4 2015 7:12 utc | 83

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 3, 2015 7:37:37 PM | 52

Doctors without borders are very clear in what they say - the Washington Post article is a complete lie

The bombing in Kunduz continued for more than 30 minutes after American and Afghan military officials in Kabul and Washington were first informed by MSF that its hospital was struck. MSF urgently seeks clarity on exactly what took place and how this terrible event could have happened.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 4 2015 7:23 utc | 84

Blues @64,

Thanks for posting "Pentagon weighs using force to protect moderates" story.

It doesn't seem too serious until they can at least attribute a quote to a particular person.

I don't think there's any way for US to get close enough to protect "their" al qaeda. Russia's no-fly zone has already warned off Israeli & Turkish planes.

Btw, Oil has gone up as it always does w mideast fighting, so ruble has also gone up & the dollar down.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 4 2015 7:30 utc | 85

@ Penelope | 85

It doesn't seem too serious until they can at least attribute a quote to a particular person.

Both Clinton and Carly Fiorina were also suggesting to attack Russian forces to defend al-Qaeda,

Its just posturing for PR and funding reasons, nothing more. They may be crazy, but they arent suicidal, to start WW3 with nuclear superpower on behalf of Al Qaeda? :))

I find Russia's not only acts, but trolling to be superior too :)

Posted by: Harry | Oct 4 2015 7:59 utc | 86
MSF denies Taliban was firing from Afghan hospital hit by air strike

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 4 2015 8:39 utc | 87


You have to wonder how ZiMF Ghani / CIA Abdullah are being briefed right now. ¿Where is General 'Hearts and Mines' Betrayus when you need him? Shagging his Mossad hooker-journalist girlfriend?

Posted by: NoReply | Oct 4 2015 11:59 utc | 88


Kunduz is on “North-South Rail Line” between 'The 'Stans' and Mazar-i-Sharif to Kunduz to Hajigak (world class iron and coking coal reserves leased to India) to Kabul to Aynak (world class copper reserves leased to China, instead of Halliburton, which so infuriated Cheney that he launched The Surge, that Obama later gave the go sign for, and even later strong-armed the Ghani selection to kept US forces in-country) to Jalalabad, Pakistan.

Probably the single most important strategic route battle for control going on right now in Afghanistan.

Posted by: NoReply | Oct 4 2015 12:19 utc | 89


The only thing holding US back is their 4G Netflix Apple6s SuperSlurpy MMRPGs.
That, and automatic fear that if you speak up, if you fuck up, you will join the legions of 95,000,000 jobless and homeless invisible non-persons, facing a massive tidal wave of cheap Mexican labor, cheap Filipino service workers and cheap high-tech Hindus, so cheap, in fact, Corporate is massively back-officing service and technical production to the Offshore Cloud, and it's not automation you have to fear, but identity theft, national biometrics and non-personhood.
"America will always need hookers and cab drivers" ... until Uber came along, and now they have hookers in the private cars bidding for your long ride home.

Is this a great country, or what!!!!??

Posted by: NoReply | Oct 4 2015 12:37 utc | 90

Map of UN agencies and NGO's in Kunduz indicates that the USA and NATO know their way around the area very well.

Posted by: fast freddy | Oct 4 2015 12:43 utc | 91

Piotr Berman @ 5

In my book, if the building was hit from helicopters and it was in the middle of battle zone, such mishaps do not per se imply an atrocity

Pat Bateman @ 34

Still, you can't really blame them(for bombing the hospital)


...I agree that MSF and HRW are both wretched outfits, and they deserve every bomb they get

reposted without further comment.

Posted by: john | Oct 4 2015 13:24 utc | 92

I mention indiscriminate bombing and right on cue, they deliver. Maybe I shouldn't say anything and save a few lives. Nah, since Climate Change is such a threat, it's imperative that I continue to speak up so we can reach that 500,000,000 target sooner rather than later.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Oct 4 2015 13:51 utc | 93

bog 39

*I am just really hoping that this isn't the PRC stroking Russia into exposing her underbelly, then slamming the door on them after a ZioCon false flag. Then the PRC would have both the USSA and Siberia in their talons.*

u'r giving too much credit to the prc.
russia needs no *stoking* from anybody, syria is considered a core interest, just like scs, tw is china's core interest.
besides, such devious manipulation is beyond the chinese, it has always been the progative of the unitedsnake.
are the murcunts luring russia into afghan mark 2 ?
[as per tomatobubble.]

Posted by: denk | Oct 4 2015 14:40 utc | 94

jfl 61
*I think the difference between the Israelis and MSF is that the Israelis only patch up al Nusra and ISIS - act as al-CIA-da's field hospital - whereas MSF patch up anyone who's hurt in the war*

know something ...u really ought to post less and read more !
during the nato 78 days bombing of ex yugo, the greek arm of msf was kicked out from the outfit….for humanely treating wounded serbs civilians !!
no prize for guessing who's giving the order !

Posted by: denk | Oct 4 2015 14:52 utc | 95

The US’s Irrational Idealism is Israel’s Realism

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 4 2015 15:06 utc | 96

Mad Vlad has found a way to avoid the controversy over accidental bombings by making bombing hospitals a policy as was reported in the al Masdar news above where they reported the successful bombing of Tabakqa National Hospital in Raqqa. No controversy here just what to expect from the Bear and the IS canceling Friday prayers probably means someone recalls previous Russian behavior from Afghanistan or Chechnya and bombing mosques is also policy.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 4 2015 15:09 utc | 97


[...] reposted without further comment.

No comments necessary.

Typical petty-bourgeois meta-ethical moral relativism, with a top of unintelligible pseudo-science.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 4 2015 15:11 utc | 98

The model is Iraq (Afgh. before it.) Destroy the institutions and everything else —> constitution and law. gvmt. police. army no question. infrastructure. agri. trees. water. electricity. hospitals, foreign non-US do-gooders. roads. schools. libraries. cantinas. cultural icons. places of worship.

To, in part, grab money for rebuilding, and establish foreign neo-colonialist fiefdoms that drain in money and earn with illegal trades, but really to commit a kind of slow genocide. Model adopted from the small but oh so stellar laboratory of Isr.

That was accomplished in Iraq, a special case. Orlov has a post about how training ‘moderates’ (etc.) is built on the Iraq model and totally beside the point in any more serious ground war.

Btw the recent, supposedly first (illegal) F airstrike on Syria killed 30 ppl, 12 of them children. The BBC admits it, but calls them child soldiers.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (fake self appointed stooges) has a very garbled spiel.

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 4 2015 15:27 utc | 99

As a US Army vet, 66' 69', let me assure all posters, these aren't mistakes, it's policy.

Posted by: ben | Oct 4 2015 15:28 utc | 100

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