Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 6, 2015
In Which The NYT Claims That John McCain Is A White House Official

Some rag reports: Kremlin Says Russian ‘Volunteer’ Forces Will Fight in Syria:

Russia signaled deepening intervention Monday in the Syria war, strongly hinting that its “volunteer” ground forces would soon be fighting there..

Although President Vladimir V. Putin has ruled out sending ground forces to Syria, a senior Kremlin defense official told Russian news agencies on Monday that military veterans who had fought in eastern Ukraine were likely to start showing up as “volunteer” ground forces in Syria.

The statement by the official, Adm. Vladimir Komoyedov, head of the armed forces committee in Russia’s Parliament, asserted that such volunteers “cannot be stopped.”

Maybe a map is needed for the NYT to learn some political differentiation.

Dear NYT -believe it or not- but the Kremlin and the Parliament in Moscow are indeed two dissimilar  institutions. The retired Admiral Vladimir Komoyedov is the elected chairman of the defense committee of the Russian Duma and not a "Kremlin official". Also – Senator John McCain is not a "White House official" no matter how much he would like to be one.

The Kremlin cares about the former Admiral's opinion just as much as the White House cares about McCain's usual blabber. Komoyedov can announce whatever nonsense he likes. It does not make it Russian state policy.

The NYT of course loves to depict Russia as a dictatorship and attributes everything someone in Moscow says or does to the President of the Russian Federation or, even darker, to "the Kremlin". But that is propaganda, not reporting.

But back to the issue of the possibility Russian volunteers in Syria. On the "World" page of the NYT website we find a promotion for a current NYT Magazine piece headline: Meet the American Vigilantes Who Are Fighting ISIS

A ragtag group of fighters from America and Europe have joined the fight against extremists in Syria. But with little training and no clear leadership, do they know what they’re doing?

Are U.S. volunteers going to Syria to fight extremists in Syria a "signal" of "deepening intervention" by the official U.S. of A.? Why is seen as such when some Russian volunteers might want to do alike?

Comments

Whether quagmire or not, an interesting question is: is/was Syraqistan intended to be a quagmire for Russia?
One could make the case that the focus turned from Syrian to Russian regime change after Putin intervened to prevent the bombing of Syria in September 2013 (and it wasn’t just diplomacy – military conflict with Russia was very possible – the diplomatic solution only allowed Obama an excuse to back down). What happened after September 2013? Ukrainian coup, Iran negotiations (attempt to bring Iran on-side or sideline), ISIS’s sudden rise with slow, weak response from the anti-ISIS coalition (with covert support via Turkey, oil purchases, a ‘failed’ training program, etc.).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 7 2015 13:34 utc | 101

@al manar #125:
What things sound like to people who are tone deaf is of no significance.
@Jackrabbit #126:
was Syraqistan intended to be a quagmire for Russia?
It’s pretty clear that it was not. Regime change was the clear goal, and an overt and substantial Russian military intervention was not expected and apparently not planned for. All this talk of Syria being a “quagmire” for Russia is just Western propagandists grasping at straws.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 7 2015 13:50 utc | 102

follow-up @126
My answer: I’m not sure. The response to Russia’s intervention seems flat-footed.
The migrant crisis seems to have been intended to raise a cry of ‘something must be done’ (as b was quick to point out), followed by bombing Syria after elections in Turkey. Russia’s last-minute intervention spoiled this plan (similar to their quick action to secure Crimea). And USA/KSA/Israel/Turkey/etc. must be hopping mad at this as they probably felt that they were only months away from toppling Assad.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 7 2015 13:50 utc | 103

@130
I think that it is very plausible that a quagmire was intended because Russian regime change became top priority after September 2013. Clearly Russia is a key member of SCO and BRICS alliances that stand in the way of NWO unilateralism.
Key question: what happened at Sochi? Did Kerry bait Putin? (Did Erdogan do the same?)
The possibility that Russia may have been enticed is unknown, but whether the Russians chose to enter the fray or not, it seems likely that bombing Syria (for humanitarian reasons!) was probably not far off.
In addition, Russia might prefer this ‘quagmire’ to allowing ISIS to grow stronger and become entrenched in Syria/Iraq as well as Muslim areas in or near Russia/China. This is the George Bush argument: fight them THERE so we don’t have to fight them HERE.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 7 2015 14:27 utc | 104

100;Yeah,they don’t need the Bosporus if Iraq and Iran let them through overland.
And CH,Russians deported?There are about 1000? Russians in America,its probably the least represented European nation in America.But we’ve got millions of dual citizen Zionists to deport.

Posted by: dahoit | Oct 7 2015 14:31 utc | 105

follow-up @131
There is a possibility that it was hoped that Russia would support Syria with a small force meant merely to prop up Assad. Thinking that it could add more if necessary.
This kind of gradualism might be expected, as history shows this is how great powers often get involved in quagmires.
But Russia showed up with a substantial force and are working with Iran, Iraq and others so as to end the conflict, not just forestall a Syrian defeat.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 7 2015 14:37 utc | 106

@dahoit #132:
Russians in America,its probably the least represented European nation in America.
It’s not a question of numbers. Once in the US, Russians quickly get assimilated. They don’t do “ethnic”.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 7 2015 14:39 utc | 107

P.S.
Another thing is that the continental powers in the world (not counting China) are Russia and the US. Poles in the US can tell politicians in Washington “Help poor old Poland against mean bad Russia.
Russians in the US can not say something similar.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 7 2015 14:51 utc | 108

Al@130
Nice job of slowing the pounding circle-jerk of omnipotent Russian fantasies but it won’t end so easily.
I wonder about the validity of the graphs you mention because correlation does not imply causation. There are too many variables and arms suppliers to directly connect these facts. The US did supply and then interrupted supplying the FSA and other vetted groups but that was because these groups were allying with more Islamist groups such as al-Nusra.
Putin may not be seeking victory against the rebels according to some commenters but only trying to win some battles to position Assad for a stronger position in peace talks. The goal is then to unite with some of the rebel groups in the new coalition to face the Islamic State, probably a pipe-dream but wishful thinking seems to persist in this conflict.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 7 2015 15:21 utc | 109

@Wayoutwest:
I agree with you in that both sides are playing a long game and are in it for the duration; it is hard to distinguish a battle from a skirmish; and we won’t know for some time what the decisive battles were.
But what we are seeing now is the fourth world war. (Yes, the Cold War was the third.) As befits fourth generation warfare, it started with the Sochi Olympics.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 7 2015 15:30 utc | 110

@139 It’s old foffy!

Posted by: dh | Oct 7 2015 15:45 utc | 111

Penelope, 55, I for one probably missed some of yr previous posts so fine you wrote a longer version. I see the Petraeus /Allen stuff in the same light as you, more or less…
IMO there is no possibility that this occurred as it is presented to us, as an act of defiance by Putin is the key sentence in yr. post, and when I wrote briefly about the why now issue I did not mention this.
Nor did I go into the obvious that IS was ‘winning’ (can’t speak to the details of territory etc., facts not solid enough), so ‘winning’ in the sense of ‘being left alone (more or less) to act, and becoming institutionalised.’ In this kind of situation, as time marches on, people leave, territories empty, the grip of the invaders or revolutionaries strengthens, as businesses are taken over, the population convinced, coerced, killed or terrorised, new state structures set up, and so on. And just existing in the news…as an ‘entity’ – a State! that counts…for so long! Come a certain point, a de facto ‘success’ means that opponents can only undo it by Invasion and Mass Killing. At some point one has to act. A kind of threshold because TIME.
Obvious to me that Obama-Kerry + some realists on the block (paleo-cons etc.) vs. neo-cons and liberal interventionists had all this in mind and more, and the Iran sanctions lifting was the (visible) beginning — as I *repeatedly* stated, it was a done deal right from the start (see Netanyahu just stated he would stop fighting it: he just needed time to look like he was protesting, etc.) Once Iran was brought into the fold (it may even have been a condition on their part to be present on the ground in Syria), an anti-IS coalition that would actually ACT was sure-fire (sic).
So an act of defiance by Putin, no. More a taking in hand, adopting a lead, up-front position, while being relatively sure, for whatever reasons, that no serious violent opposition leading to WW3 will take place. If this was a straight-out agreement I doubt but no matter. Reality need not be spoken if agreed on in petto.
Therefore, we are offered dollops of trickle-truth, objections and horror tales (Putin targets moderates, civs are getting killed, Assad is still inherently a monster incarnate, etc. etc.) to then slowly pass from ‘Assad must go’ to ‘There is no alternative to Assad for now’ (Merkel, others).. from ‘Russia is a demonic agressor’ to…wait and see.. ‘US, Russia coordinate Syria strikes’, etc. etc. But imho the situation is more volatile and complex than you make out, the balance of power is very tricky…and Putin may be acting relatively alone / w. his coalition…but who knows…
All of which, btw, poses the larger question: Why did things proceed so far that the Syrian population / country was sacrificed ??

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 7 2015 16:56 utc | 112

from Nuland to Powers to Rice to Allen to Petraeus to McCain to Clinton to Kerry to Obama to…
the antecedant that renders all this hairsplitting commentary insufficient is that everyone of these cretins is guilty of treason. which means that the entire management of the affairs of state is a criminal monstrosity.
parsing the differences between ‘factions’ is at best inconclusive and at worst contributes an air of legitimacy to their aggregate dreadfulness, you know, like all the blathering we’ve been subjected to regarding the myriad ‘rebel’ groups wandering around in Syria.

Posted by: john | Oct 7 2015 17:19 utc | 113

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 7, 2015 12:56:50 PM | 142
It was meant to be done on the cheap, plus get the US out of the Middle East quagmire.
Plan A – let the European and Osman old colonial powers plus Germany take over – did not work as European populations have lost war lust for three generations and more – this was the progressive phase
Plan B – Let the Muslim Brotherhood take over – this freaked the Egyptian military, Israel and presumably the Jordanian king, not to mention Saudi Arabia – still the progressive phase pretending the US was on the side of democracy
Plan C – Let Saudi fundamentalism take over – this frightened all of the above including the European public – the Afghanistan option on Saudi Arabia’s border –
Plan D – Offer an agreement to Iran – the Iran/contra option – disliked by Israel and Saudi – Iran does not seem to have dealt any compromise on Syria for it – so it is unclear what the US got from it, but surely they must have got something, possibly Iraqi neutrality between the powers …
Plan E – restart with plan A and B – hoping the refugees would bring the European public to realize something had to be done
Russia walked in – Plan F – fine – we wanted to go anyway.
The US is bound to play the spoiler now – on the cheap. But it will cost them any good will they might still have.
Except if Putin can find some face saver.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 7 2015 17:43 utc | 114

somebody 144, yeah, something like that, ha ha. Your cited plan B was a hopeless failure visibly from the start. How the US (McCain in first place, the keenest as far as shown in the media) imagined that would work, in Egypt no less, boggles the mind.

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 7 2015 19:04 utc | 115

Walnuts McGrumpypants………..ROFL. So glad I came to MOA today, just for that gem alone!

Posted by: ShadyLady | Oct 7 2015 19:10 utc | 116

Anyone think Putin finally got around to reading The Clean Break Plan??

Posted by: ShadyLady | Oct 7 2015 19:14 utc | 117

John @ 143,
Neither faction is legitimate since both want a global oligarchy. There’s a struggle over tactics that’s all. The more prudent tactic of simply expanding the institutions which usurp national sovereignty is winning, so they don’t really need aggression. People have only begun to wake up about the most obvious: TPP, TTIP & TSiP. There is almost no awareness about the others, so they can continue w impunity.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 7 2015 22:56 utc | 118

@122 “a quagmire occurs when Xbox Military-fantasists see that bombing didn’t work so they try throwing 100’s and 1,000’s of cannon-fodder into butchery. ”
Dude, you’ve missed my point.
This is the last time I’ll repeat this, because you are clearly nothing but a troll: It Won’t Be Russian Troops Who Will Be The Cannon-Fodder.
I have said – more times than I care to count – that Putin doesn’t want to use Russian troops. He would prefer not to have *any* Russian soldiers return in coffins.
That’s why he will use Iranian soldiers. Lots and lots and lots and lots of Iranian soldiers.
And if it turns out that those Iranian soldiers have to go through a meat-grinder in this conflict then He Won’t Care Because They Aren’t His Boys.
Look, there are good reasons to use proxy forces to fight wars, and one of them is that You Don’t Care How Many Of Them Die.
The USA has been arming, training and supporting “moderate rebels” for several years now, and by any definition those “moderate rebels” are stuck in a quagmire – they aren’t strong enough to overthrow Assad, and they keep getting attacked in the rear by ISIS.
Does Washington care that those “moderate rebels” are stuck in a quagmire, or that those “moderate rebels” are only good for cannon-fodder?
Answer: No. Not in the slightest.
Get this part through your skull: if Putin uses IRANIAN troops rather than RUSSIAN troops then he can use them in large numbers without any care for their casualty rates.
So, I’ll ask again: why wouldn’t he use IRANIAN troops, and use them in vast numbers?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 7 2015 23:51 utc | 119

@118 “because Putin does not command an army of “100, . . . no fuk it 250,000″ Revolutionary Guards”
You clearly do not have a grasp of the wider interests that are in play here.
As in: the whole Middle East is in play here.
And Putin already has Syria and Iran on his side, plus Hezbollah. He will very, very soon have Iraq in his pocket (b has a new post that notes the Iraqis gave approval for Russian cruise missiles to pass through their airspace, just the beginning).
The aim is clearly the 4+1 coalition that b alludes to in that post.
So, can Putin call upon 100,000 Iranian soldiers?
Answer: Yeah, he can.
And would the Iranians think that putting 100,000 of its soldiers in Syria is a good idea?
Answer: Hell yeah.
After all, having 100,000 soldiers right next door will give Israel something to think about next time (and it would be the 4th time) Netanyahu starts floating the idea of launching air raids on Iranian nuclear facilities.
All the Iranians will need is the invitation (and that’ll be easy), and a promise from Putin that he can and will protect those troops en-route (again, very easy).
Neither were possible even a month ago. Both are possible now, and that’s why it’ll happen.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 8 2015 0:03 utc | 120

@153: “350, 000 i think it was”
At least 100,000 inside Syria.
At least another 100,000 inside Iraq.
“”Revolutionary Guards”, no less”
And that’s “fantastic”…. why, exactly?
“In your latest fantasy.”
I don’t think this conversation is going to last very much longer.
Though I don’t much doubt that you’ll be back with another moniker.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 8 2015 0:26 utc | 121

Wow. Just wow.
“Look, there are good reasons to use proxy forces to fight wars, and one of them is that You Don’t Care How Many Of Them Die.”
Yeah. Because obviously Putin never cared about human lives, that’s also why he firebombed all of western Ukraine or why he took and enslaved Georgia after stopping the nazis there etc…
And then we all wake up.
“The USA has been arming, training and supporting “moderate rebels” for several years now, and by any definition those “moderate rebels” are stuck in a quagmire – they aren’t strong enough to overthrow Assad, and they keep getting attacked in the rear by ISIS.”
Wow. Where have you been the last few years as the US media invented “ISIS” out of nowhere, as US trained the jihadists in Turkey, Germany etc.? Haven’t you seen the photos of McCain with AlBaghdadi and other goons (currently on display on FortRuss)?
I can understand shills, liars, I can even understand people being stupid and uninformed, but your nonsense above is just WAAAAY too much. Totally, utterly over-the-top crazy.
There never was such a thing like “moderate rebels”, that’s an oxymoron. They’re all crazy murderers and must be (and will be) stopped very soon. No need for any gazillions of useless and badly trained cannon fodder from Iran either, the syrians have a capable army that can now fight with much more vigilance, having proper air support and more freedom of movement. The required boots on the ground are there in sufficient numbers.
@ al manar guy – welcome, expect to be banned soon just I was a few times already. Talking truth or reason to the murder-porn-loving idiot-troll bunch residing here does not resonate well, unfortunately.

Posted by: zedz | Oct 8 2015 9:03 utc | 122

@122 zedz appears out of nowhere, and immediately indulges in an orgy of ad-hominem.
Let me guess: al marar has just been banned, so he immediately changes his name to zedz and starts his trolling all over again.
Puerile.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 9 2015 0:00 utc | 123

Hitler on Syria. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17qDNQ2xYdU

Posted by: Jak Jones | Oct 23 2015 5:48 utc | 124