Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 24, 2015

Hillary Clinton: We Lied. The Aim Of Our War On Libya Was Regime Change

Micah Zenko finds a nugget in yesterday's Benghazi hearing of Hillery Clinton:

When asked by Rep. Peter Roskam (R-IL) about a video clip that read, “We came, we saw, he died [meaning former Libyan President Muammar al-Gaddafi]. Is that the Clinton doctrine?” Clinton replied, “No, that was an expression of relief that the military mission undertaken by NATO and our other partners had achieved its end.”

The video clip in question is here and should be watched by everyone to understand what an evil character Hillary Clinton is.

But the point, Zenko says, is that she admits that Obama and Clinton as his Secretary of State lied when they claimed to wage war on Libya for some "humanitarian reasons":

What is now totally forgotten is that regime change WAS NOT the intended military mission of the Libya intervention in March 2011. As President Barack Obama stated in a speech to the nation on March 28, 2011, "The task that I assigned our forces [is] to protect the Libyan people from immediate danger, and to establish a no-fly zone," adding explicitly, "Broadening our military mission to include regime change would be a mistake."

If there are any competent opponents to her candidacy for president they should pick up on this and use it to destroy her: "You want a president that is lying to you about going to war? About getting your sons and daughters killed?"

Posted by b on October 24, 2015 at 16:53 UTC | Permalink

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Is there some sort of State Dept or master federal database that our officials can access to keep their lies straight? Or maybe it's just more work involved in sorting the lies than there is in recording every email sent over internet?

It's becoming difficult to parse the utterings from all our psychos, so can someone tell me how to access the Matrix database?

Posted by: BOG | Oct 24 2015 17:07 utc | 1

no harm in a little honesty from time to time... i don't generally expect anything other then lies..

Posted by: james | Oct 24 2015 17:20 utc | 2

Obama "Broadening our military mission to include regime change would be a mistake." Well he was right there. It is just possible that that mistake could have cost the US the middle East. Russia and China were furious that NATO, led by the US had lied to them by not following the UNSC Resolution. They are determined regime change like that will never happen again. So now we have Syria,Hezbollah,Iran,Iraq and now Jordan cooperating with Russia on fighting terrorists [good and bad ones]with the US issuing threats to its "Allies" to stay under the US umbrella. Heck of a good job Obama.

Posted by: harry law | Oct 24 2015 17:36 utc | 3

People that she surrounds herself with are rabid neo-cons. Hand chosen ones no less.

AND Bernie??? MUM on Mideast policies...

So, when will WallStreet Hillary declare war on Iceland? When they start printing debt free money?

Icelandic Bankers Are Not Too Big To Jail: Face 74 Years In Prison As US Bankers Bask In Bailouts

As TheAntiMedia's Claire Bernish exclaims, you could ice skate in Hell sooner than see the United States follow in Iceland’s footsteps with this move: the 26th banker was just sentenced to prison for a combined 74 years between them — each of them jailed for their roles in the 2008 economic collapse.

Five top bankers from Iceland’s two largest banks — Landsbankinn and Kaupþing — were found guilty of embezzlement, market manipulation, and breach of fiduciary duties. Though the country’s maximum penalty for financial crimes currently stands at six years, the Supreme Court is currently hearing arguments to extend the limit. Most of those convicted have so far been sentenced to between two and five years.

Do those sentences sound light to you? Perhaps. Until you consider the curious method of punishment the U.S. employed for its thieving bankers.

While Iceland allowed its government to take total financial control when the 2008 crisis took hold, American bankers — in likely the only bail handout given to criminals of mass destruction — received $700 billion in Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) funds.

snip
Iceland’s president, Olafur Ragnar Grimmson, described how his country not only weathered the storm, but has been labeled the first European country to fully recover from the crisis:

“We were wise enough not to follow the traditional prevailing orthodoxies of the Western financial world in the last 30 years. We introduced currency controls, we let the banks fail, we provided support for the poor, and we didn’t introduce austerity measures like you’re seeing in Europe.”

MORE:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-24/icelandic-bankers-are-not-too-big-jail-face-74-years-prison-us-bankers-bask-bailouts

Hillary's state department minions had hands in Egypt, Ukraine, Libya, and Syria's uprisings. No denying. imo.

What would happen to our economy without Wall Street gambling and military weapon sales? Would we even have an economy left?

Posted by: shadyl | Oct 24 2015 17:37 utc | 4

If there are any competent opponents to her candidacy for president they should pick up on this and use it to destroy her

i'm starting to believe what a number of prescient observers have been saying for quite a while, i.e. that Hillary will be the next president. she's taking on that gloss of 'the chosen one'

but as much as the idea dumbfounds me, i believe, too, that americans would buy dogshit if it was packaged right.

Posted by: john | Oct 24 2015 17:45 utc | 5

Indeed. One wonders if the Clinton email 'scandal' is to some extent intended to distract us from the real problem with Hillary Clinton. To many the email thing seems technical and boring and they are getting tired of it. What she did in Libya is the real evil, yet it gets a lot less press.

And how interesting that the mass media can, though sheer repetition, persuade us that a sociopathic monster like Hillary Clinton is 'qualified' and 'reasonable' and 'moderate', while persuading us that reasonable people like Ralph Nader and Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are 'quixotic' and 'extremists' and that decent people should be ashamed of voting for them. OK "The Donald" can be out there, and Sanders is a bit more a cold warrior than your typical liberal, but neither of them has personally overseen the destruction of an entire nation that didn't threaten us. Imperfect as these two are, objectively compared to Clinton, who comes out as more objectively decent?

People like Hillary Clinton fail spectacularly at every endeavor, and they call it being experienced.

Posted by: TG | Oct 24 2015 17:53 utc | 6

OT: In addition to supporting the Syrian army, Russia has offered to provide air cover/support for "patriotic opposition," including the Free Syrian Army, and has urged presidential and parliamentary elections in Syria. The rebels have replied that it's too soon to talk about elections.

Wish they'd called Russia's non-bluff ...

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 24 2015 18:04 utc | 7

@5 "OK "The Donald" can be out there, and Sanders is a bit more a cold warrior than your typical liberal, but neither of them has personally overseen the destruction of an entire nation that didn't threaten us."

Not yet.

Posted by: dh | Oct 24 2015 18:07 utc | 8

Harry Law @ 2,

I guess you wouldn't exactly call it "regime change", but no one-- Russia & China included-- seems to care about the "country destruction" going on in Yemen. US is certainly facilitating another project there.

It's even possible Saudi Arabia could again be reduced to dependency. US didn't much like it when Saudi Arabia backed the overthrow of Morsi & the Muslin Brotherhood. And then the major trade deals with Russia. Followed shortly by US "aid" to the Saudis in invented war against the Yemenis. The target here may be as much the Saudis as the Yemenis.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 24 2015 18:13 utc | 9

The naive Americans manipulated by the medias may to elect a hysterical witch.
She is so stupid that she will simply accelerate the USA's downfall.

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 24 2015 18:16 utc | 10

TG @ 5,

Hillary's failures are bad enough, but her successes are even worse-- as in Libya, or her undermining the Geneva 2012 Syrian peace process.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 24 2015 18:18 utc | 11

Virgile @9: Yeah, maybe that's the best we can hope for.

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 24 2015 18:30 utc | 12

American politicians lie every time they open their mouths. Americans know it, and are resigned to it. It doesn't really matter who gets elected - there is no difference between Bush and Obama, or between Hillary and McCain.

As for "someone competent", competent people don't run for a President anymore, for an obvious reason - competent person would know that managing country's decline is the worst job in the world.

@10 Penelope
There is no such thing as an "American foreign-policy success" anymore. Only failures. Some may be perceived as "success", but they never pass the test of time.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 24 2015 18:36 utc | 13

@ john -

Americans bought dogshit consecutively several times in the past few decades. I think Hillary, while undoubtedly the worst candidate (saying much, considering the field) is likely to get elected by default and humongous spin machinery here in the states. After Clinton lies and shenanigans, then Bush lies and shenanigans and now 8 years of just plain stupid - she might just stroll into office and finish wrecking things completely.

Posted by: BOG | Oct 24 2015 18:43 utc | 14

@5 - Any chance that Hillary was just doing her job? Not that that would ever absolve her of the task with which she seemed successful but comments that she "failed" seem somewhat off. Depends what she was trying to accomplish.

Got an alternative?

Posted by: Bardi | Oct 24 2015 18:47 utc | 15

@3 "What would happen to our economy without Wall Street gambling and military weapon sales? Would we even have an economy left?"

Yes: Pharmaceutical, sports and surveillance industries. And Uber drivers.

Posted by: Murican | Oct 24 2015 18:56 utc | 16

It's not "competent opponents" you should be asking for b, its principled, moral, ethical and anti-imperialist opponents. And looking across the landscape of evil that runs power and those that cheer for US evil....well they are the vast majority, and they dominate the stinking, rotting, decrepit state of the US.

Guess those standards above ( which everyone should be demanding of their political candidate choices ) exclude the despicable fraud that is Bernie Sanders.

Even after all the shit that Hitlery has done, and under the scrutiny she's currently under, she is still favourite to be the US president, at this time. What an amazingly despicable state that is a condemnation of US politics.

The sooner that US political shit-hole collapses under its own rotting corpse, the better off humanity will be.


.

Posted by: tom | Oct 24 2015 19:00 utc | 17

By the way: Lybia would not be destroyed if Putin had been in charge.
Just one MSM Source:
http://www.ibtimes.com/medvedev-putin-clash-over-libya-rare-moment-public-discord-276513

Posted by: From The Hague | Oct 24 2015 19:05 utc | 18

"If there are any competent opponents to her candidacy for president they should pick up on this and use it to destroy her"

Competent opponents don't make any difference in that US 4-yearly circus called an election. It doesn't bring any change in foreign policy and hardly noticeable change in domestic policy. The only thing the circus brings is a new face, lot's of promises that never materialize and a brief impression of hope; of change.

How was Obama who seemed the total opposite of Bush any different from Bush? Guantanamo is still there, the US military occupation footprint in Iraq and Afghanistan is still there and has even expanded to many other countries preceded by different kinds of propaganda scams like the Koni scam; the EU needs protection from Russia scam; ... , he has made highly needed anti global warming measures a joke, domestically general welfare is a failure, banksters and rating agencies have been awarded not punished by the government, although a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School and law professor at University of Chicago he converted international law into a worthless piece of toilet paper where only the exceptionalist country is supposed to decide, the ultra secret national eves dropping programme by the NSA wasn't curtailed but expanded it's surveillance to the point that you can talk of a global panopticon, the slowmotion genocide of Palestinians by Zionists remains well on track and finally he has expanded the extra judicial killing programme through drones. The current POTUS also ventured into new roads like the persecution of whistle blowers (Manning, Snowden, Assange and those that never got a name).

His predecessor (Bush) or his predecessor (Clinton) or his predecessor (Bush) or his predecessor (Reagan) wouldn't have done it any different.

Whether a perceived pacifist is chosen, a lunatic or a psychopathic banshee, the end result is still the same.

Posted by: vendet | Oct 24 2015 19:27 utc | 19

Billary = GOPs = neocons. The only hope for America and the world is Bernie. That's why the Wall Street banking mafia won't let him go too far.

Posted by: nmb | Oct 24 2015 19:33 utc | 20

Nice find! Too bad it won't make any difference, unless the Russian Duma picks it up and uses it as a basis for arresting her for war crimes. I know some of the Duma members would be very happy to make such charges. And why not?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 24 2015 19:41 utc | 21

@18 - Bernie is our only hope???? don't make me gag

Posted by: bbbbb | Oct 24 2015 19:48 utc | 22

@ 13
Good point. For Hillary, Libya was perfectly rational and I’m sure she still considers it a huge success. On RT’s Crosstalk show last Wednesday the increasingly hysterical Peter Lavelle and one of his guests claimed the United States was not acting rationally in Syria. When another guest, Sam Husseini, pointed out that in their terms they were acting perfectly rationally, that the aim was to produce failed states, he was openly mocked and shouted down by Lavelle. Is rationality a meaningless concept?

Posted by: Lochearn | Oct 24 2015 20:00 utc | 23

Penelope@8 I agree with you, unfortunately the US as a veto wielding member of the UNSC has given Saudi Arabia a free pass to commit aggression against Yemen, and as you know if Russia or China introduced a Resolution condemning Saudi Arabia, the US would veto it and it would go down the memory hole. I would like to recommend an article by Dr David Morrison on 'Why the UK Attorney Generals Advice [on the Iraq war] was sound' http://www.david-morrison.org.uk/iraq/ags-legal-advice.pdf

Posted by: harry law | Oct 24 2015 20:13 utc | 24

Lochern @21

Many have noted Lavelle becoming ever more hysterical and irrational, to the point where they no longer watch Crosstalk. He's becoming RT's Glenn Beck.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 24 2015 20:15 utc | 25

Has it, does it, ever occur to anyone that maybe the Obama's, the Bushes, the Clinton's ARE what Americans want for their presidents? People who will attempt to preserve and expand the empire?

Would that not explain why the President and the Congresspersons are both real and virtual neo-cons?

Historically, even from the very beginning of the european destruction of the peoples of the new world, Americans have led the way in taking while destroying. Now it is the world they want, not just the continent.

Posted by: Rg an LG | Oct 24 2015 20:16 utc | 26

@24 "Has it, does it, ever occur to anyone that maybe the Obama's, the Bushes, the Clinton's ARE what Americans want for their presidents? People who will attempt to preserve and expand the empire?"

Security is what they want. There is a sense, especially since 911, that the world out there is hostile. They look for strength and protection from the president. Any pullback is seen as weakness.

Posted by: dh | Oct 24 2015 20:30 utc | 27

I did not read the whole thing nor I will, whether b took all this out of some context (showdown with the witch) I do not know. What is interesting that this coming from someone who is member of CFR. I would give my right had that Micah Zenko (given his bios he might be neocon/facist) is villain and psychopaths, in true sense of this word, just as is someone from Clinton and Bush family - and pretty much majority of the US citizen for that matter.

I believe that "gruesome questioning", as the national narrative goes, is just the Theater of the Absurd and the CFR's member is part of it, a part of an entertaining and cover up complex. That is the cultural aspect of the US society where truth and facts are unknown categories - from ordinary people who are victims of regime to the top echelon of society. What we see on the US' media and read in newspapers is divorced from reality and one shouldn't pay attention to it. The latest example is the hurricane Patricia of “historic” proportion. So, informations from the weather, dieselgate to the WH and US Congress everything is just plain violent lies. Unfortunately with a lethal consequences.

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Oct 24 2015 20:32 utc | 28

Americans are thoroughly brainwashed to believe in American exceptionalism and the mission of "making the world safe for democracy" and America as upholder of human and civil rights (except when we "need" exceptions) ... even people who "should know better" fall into believing that as the world's "one remaining superpower" there is some sort of noblesse obliges mandating America "rescuing" the downtrodden, etc. etc. etc.

Americans are taught -- if not in school, in life -- that were it not for Americans saving the day, Hitler would have won ... nuf said. (cue mighty mouse theme song) ...

Despite rather embarrassing facts/evidence to the contrary they also believe Americans are the most generous people on earth and that our "justice system" is at least better than everyone else's.... add in an extraordinary willingness to give "our leaders" the benefit of the doubt and to believe that corruption does not factor in American business or society ... and you have Disneyland.... or other fantasy-land.
As it was with Vietnam, with Iraq and Afghanistan, the only thing we did "wrong" was to fail.... (having never articulated a plan or vision is overlooked) ...
I'm still waiting for someone to notice that 30-50 years of democracy promotion throughout the middle east (particularly in Egypt, Mubarak objected strenuously) produced such a lack of results when Arab Spring rolled around ... seriously ... these hotbeds of wannabe color-revolutionaries failed pretty resoundingly ... even though we knew Mubarak would not last forever ...

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 24 2015 20:39 utc | 29

today's irony alert is the head of the FBI blaming "viral videos" ((iow Black Lives Matters) for a rise in crime because they allegedly embolden criminals ... days after the Department of Justice said there was not such things ... the wheels are falling off the cart ... (there are allegations elsewhere that the cops -- having hurt feelings and low morale -- are failing to vigorously perform their job functions .... hmmm) ...

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 24 2015 20:44 utc | 30

So, for Hillary to fulfill her destiny as the chosen one, Sanders has to get out of the way yeah? I wonder though, if TPTB might have to go with Bernie in the end since Hillary's numbers are just awful, the scandals keep getting worse by the week- and that's just MSM version scandals sinking her- and I assume there has to be a point at which selecting her is just not a viable option. Besides that, asuming Hillary was preferred and Jeb #2,Trump appears to be foiling the Bush III backup plan. And since Bernie's no threat to the status quo- rabidly anti-Russia, fanatically pro Israel, as Zionist as it gets, votes with Dems 95% of the time, inc. for every war/AUMF I believe. Plus, ALMOST unbelievably coming right on the heels of Obama's Hopey Changey PR hoax, a critical mass of left leaning peoples are falling for practically the same act, AGAIN. This phenomenon has to be a joy to those who depend upon or rose job it is to keep people believing in the system, so they may as well milk it for all it's worth.

I have a question, looking at campaign finance #s, why do lawyers love Hillary so much? The contributions to her from that sector are ridiculously large.

Posted by: Colinjames | Oct 24 2015 20:44 utc | 31

Hillary be a cunt. Jesus she's fuckin worse than a cunt. She's a Nazi psychopathic cunt. Fuck, if I could use hasher language I would....

Posted by: Dan | Oct 24 2015 20:47 utc | 32

As b pointed out earlier, Hillary Clinton also called for the implementation of a no fly zone in Syria after Russia intervened along with 7 other Presidential Candidates. The shock and awe attack required to be successful would start world war III with nuclear armed Russia. It would also trash the memorandum of understanding that regulates flights over Syria between Russia and the USA agreed to four days ago. The fact that the media and her opponents don’t point this out means that Americans perceive risking a nuclear war as a plus or else they are blissfully ignorant.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Oct 24 2015 20:54 utc | 33

@Dan 30.

hmmmm, Bernie. Thought I read somewhere that he has never voted against any of our wars.

I suspect Bernie might get tapped as VP....just like Gore tapped Lieberman. Still trying I guess.

Is Lieberman still in change of homeland security? Haven't checked lately. Another fail of Obama. He brought both Hil and Lib in, how nice.

Posted by: shadyl | Oct 24 2015 21:00 utc | 34

Dan#30, cunts are usefull, she is not...

Posted by: Kevin | Oct 24 2015 21:02 utc | 35

I must be going blind, my post above was for Colinjames @ 29.

Posted by: shadyl | Oct 24 2015 21:03 utc | 36

@32 Sanders was a no vote on Iraq. He was in the House of Representatives at the time, so he wouldn't show up on a Senate roll call.

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Oct 24 2015 21:15 utc | 37

@24 thats not what the opinion polls say. Our leaders arent a reflection of popular opion, theyre the product of utter corruption.

Posted by: Guest77 | Oct 24 2015 21:54 utc | 38

If we take Sanders on his word alone, and lets assume for the argument that he will implement without much restriction far more socially beneficial policies in the US if he wins the presidency, he is still committed to the US empire and will condemn the rest of humanity to war, depredation and misery. That's if we take his words as accurate.

If you choose that, your choosing condemnation to world wide evil so you and the US population will have a better life. That is evil itself and a world sacrificial evil that no decent human could ever advocate.

Posted by: tom | Oct 24 2015 21:55 utc | 39

"Nature" of the US society: Pathological Lies.

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/30/silencers_the_nras_latest_big_lie/

“Billions of dollars are spent every year in our healthcare system for hearing loss conditions, such as shooting-related tinnitus,” explained the NRA. It was a very important point that had long been overlooked in the gun control debate; because if there is a single pressing gun safety issue in America today, it is the hearing, comfort and convenience of recreational shooters who find orange earplugs unsightly. The NRA is also extremely concerned about the fright children may receive from shooting or standing near the reports of high-caliber weapons. These jolts could have a lasting and detrimental developmental impact, possibly imbuing America’s impressionable and tender young brains with the notion that guns are loud, dangerous things. The NRA firmly believes that American freedom is best served by giving 9mm gunfire the feel and sound of a toy cap gun. As the NRA’s Lacey Biles put it during last April’s Dallas Silencer Shoot, silencers are good for “getting younger folks involved [in guns]. They’re less afraid of the loud bang.”

Do not forget eyeglasses while shooting, NRA did not say this.
http://www.captreeopticians.com/shooting-glasses/ranger-classic

So, people do get what they deserve. USAians deserve Hilary, Trump, Carson, Jindal, etc

"Majority Of Americans Believe US Would Be Safer If More People Carried Guns"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-23/majority-americans-believe-us-would-be-safer-if-more-people-carried-guns

Posted by: Neretva'43 | Oct 24 2015 22:22 utc | 40

I guess Gladio has become mainstream; it's no longer necessary to kill govts unacceptable to the oligarchy; now they can just invent the legal right to set them aside. Amazing.

"Portugal has entered dangerous political waters. For the first time since the creation of Europe’s monetary union, a member state has taken the explicit step of forbidding eurosceptic parties from taking office on the grounds of national interest.
Anibal Cavaco Silva, Portugal’s constitutional president, has refused to appoint a Left-wing coalition government even though it secured an absolute majority in the Portuguese parliament and won a mandate to smash the austerity regime bequeathed by the EU-IMF Troika. " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11949701/AEP-Eurozone-crosses-Rubicon-as-Portugals-anti-euro-Left-banned-from-power.html

We are just ants to the oligarchy-- and we can't seem to figure out what to do about it.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 24 2015 22:36 utc | 41

""Majority Of Americans Believe US Would Be Safer If More People Carried Guns"

Seems like the stat is that if one owns a gun you are 4 times more likely to get shot than if you don't.

Not to mention that gun-related deaths are rising to the point that they are about to surpass motor vehicle deaths in the U.S.

On the other hand there may be some net benefit arising from increasing the level of Darwin Award winners collateral damage notwithstanding. As usual the devil is in the details.

Posted by: paulmeli | Oct 24 2015 22:39 utc | 42

Kevin @ 33,

Please moderate your language. Thank you.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 24 2015 22:40 utc | 43

Rg and LG @ 24, "Has it, does it, ever occur to anyone that maybe the Obama's, the Bushes, the Clinton's ARE what Americans want for their presidents? People who will attempt to preserve and expand the empire?"

No, it is NOT what Americans want. There seem to be no instrumentalities by which we can affect the power structure. Since the more important aspects of local govt have become national our primary constitutional right is the vote. And as you can see that's hopeless.

I always wonder why people seem to think it enhances their moral stature to complain to Americans about the Indians. No one living today is guilty of any bad treatment of the Indians. I do get tired of all the guilt-slinging. I expect if you go back far enough most countries had somebody else living there before the ancestors of the present citizenry.

Why don't you try being more just to the present occupants of this continent by not accusing us of being in favor of the gangsters who presently have the US in their pocket?

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 24 2015 22:56 utc | 44


@nmb #18
@bbbbb #20
@Colinjames #29
@shadyl #3, #32
@tom #15

The only hope for America and the world is Bernie??

To better understands a Trojan horse.... If both video and audio below cannot convince you nothing will. We are doom for endless wars and slaughter of innocent Palestinians till they are totally eliminated in West Bank and Gaze will be far worst than the Holocaust.

Please pay particular attention the first audio especially on Israel:

5 Questions For Bernie Sanders Supporters

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-24/5-questions-bernie-sanders-supporters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTyqHHoifNY

Bernie Sanders town hall gives US party line when confronted re: #gaza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf2cCdgwgoM

Two more videos from the children of a general who participated in 1967 war. Miko Peled, Nurit Peled-Elhanan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurit_Peled-Elhanan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05nh1asqU9o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWKPRC-_oSg

When we ever learn!!!

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 24 2015 22:59 utc | 45

@23 karlof

I agree on Lovelle. I watched him - for the last time - ignore a Lebanese who knew what was happening in Syria to shout - at length - at a revolving door US general whom he had put on the show to act as his foil. As disgusting as it was disinformative.

@24 Rg

Yes, the people who live in Palestine, Libya, Syria, Yemen ... just so many more 'red skins' to most of us Americans, apparently. The only good one is a dead one. Actions (and in-actions) speak louder than words. We folks at Buffalo Bill Cody's Wild West shows didn't actually kill the redskins ourselves either. Just sat in front of our TVs eating popcorn. Tsk, tsk. On occasion. Just following orders.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 24 2015 23:03 utc | 46

Tinnitus, which I have, because shooting guns? You have to be freaking kidding me. How about all the loud rock'n'roll listening, whether in the car or in concerts. How about all the power tools used without ear protection? When practice shooting, most shooters wear, at least, ear plugs.

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Oct 24 2015 23:06 utc | 47


Paraphrasing Nietzsche, “A certain belief or idea might be absolutely essential for survival and still be false.”


Posted by: Neretva'43 | Oct 24 2015 23:07 utc | 48

I don't think the Democratic nominee will be elected president... whether it is Clinton or Sanders.

A lot of independents and great many Republicans see Trump the same way so many Democrats and Independents saw Obama... the enthusiasm is there for Trump. If he gets the nomination I believe he will beat Clinton. That is if someone doesn't shoot him first.

Posted by: cronetoo | Oct 24 2015 23:23 utc | 49

Why benevolent dictatorship is worse than corrupted democracy - discuss....

Posted by: bridger | Oct 24 2015 23:28 utc | 50

I’ve been trying to cover WikiLeaks cable aggregations in some (broad) locations at my small website, most recently (US democracy project™) NGOs attempting/helping to overthrow leftist governments in Latin America. But Hillary looms large in Honduras.

‘Hillary Clinton's Emails and the Honduras Coup’, by Alexander Main at CEPR.
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/US-Denies-WikiLeaks-Claims-of-Plot-To-Topple-Bolivian-President-20151006-0019.html

But far more damning re: Clinton/Honduras, but some you likely know about Syria: ‘WikiLeaks cables shed light on US foreign policy failures’

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/10/wikileaks-cables-shed-light-on-us-foreign-policy-failures.html

Bernie? Okay, but from the horse’s mouth, and this doesn’t speak to his ‘well, Israel’s response in Gaza is...disproportionate... but I didn’t go to the joint session with Bibi!’ schtick. Well, you decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMhJn4EYbQI

Posted by: wendy davis | Oct 24 2015 23:29 utc | 51

Hillary is terrible, but the Republican nominee will certainly be as bad or worse than Hillary. There is no candidate with a chance of winning whom is not a Zionist warmonger. Jeb will be our next President.

Posted by: fast freddy | Oct 24 2015 23:49 utc | 52

Explains the conduct of the battle in Syria. Informative, worth reading.
The most alarming part:

In its turn, the US will likely increase the delivery of weapons to ISIS. I would not exclude that, to enable ISIS to strike Russian aircrafts, the US will supply more powerful anti-aircraft guns, not only mobile ones, but also those with higher power. Just like the US supplied heavy long-range anti-tank complexes, even though usually they supplied only short-range ones. The US might also supply more powerful rocket-launching systems, which, from Turkish territory, can “accidentally” fall into terrorist hands, where “accidentally” will be well-trained personnel, and can act against our aircrafts at heights up to 20 kilometers. This would mean serious casualties. After these losses, our air force will have to suppress these anti-aircraft systems, which will lead to gradual escalation of the conflict. Thus, I believe that in the next two weeks the tensions will increase, the intensity of actions of the Russian and ISIS forces will increase.

I also think that greater ISIS military force will be deployed at the frontlines. I think they will be redeployed from other areas, such as Afghanistan, and they will be transported in the only way possible: by the US military transport aircrafts. As Afghanistan does not border Syria, there is no other way of their transportation. I would not exclude that from Europe or countries bordering Syria, such as Jordan or Turkey, the migration of terrorists to Syria will be initiated and supported. This is because the US cannot allow the Russian victory in the region, as the victory of Bashar Assad over ISIS, Russian victory in the area will mean that the US, at least in the near term, the next 10-15 years, will lose a chance to restore its control over the region. They cannot let that happen. Thus, at any price, by supporting any force, the US will do everything possible to defeat Assad and the Russian military there. Thus, in the next two weeks we can only expect escalation of the military confrontation in Syria and the emergence of new areas of conflict.

http://thesaker.is/konstantin-sivkov-interviewed-about-the-russian-operation-in-syria/

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 25 2015 0:15 utc | 53

@b "If there are any competent opponents to her candidacy for president they should pick up on this and use it to destroy her: "You want a president that is lying to you about going to war? About getting your sons and daughters killed?" "
Good one! ...Oh, you're serious. Better pray Trump is on the level.

-

@17 "...although a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School and law professor at University of Chicago, he [Obama]..."

NO. Fucking NO.

No. No. No.

Columbia University's laws school head says Obama NEVER studied there. Fucking search for it online. Obama did didn't study at Harvard either. Search for it. Not ONE person remembers him from the time he supposedly spent at Harvard. He wasn't a law professsor either. NO evidence of this. Obama was working for Business International at the time. Obama is CIA all the way. How the fuck are you an American voter and you're too stupid to know this shit? Moron. This is unforgivable. Seriously. I'm British and I know this shit. What is wrong with you that after 7 years of Obama you don't know this? Fucking dipshit. People like you are the reason Obama is America's fake president to begin with.

-

@18 "The only hope for America and the world is Bernie."
A war-mongering Jew who supports almost every AIPAC and Zionist policy? A liar and cheat? Fuck you for being so stupid. Cunt.

-

@20 You can't argue with paid shills or cultural marxist-brainwashed morons.

-

@30 Hey, don't insult Nazis.

-

"Iran Envoy to UN: Israel Main Sponsor of Regional Instability"
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940801000242

-

Russia drops leaflets on rebel areas in Syria depicting Israel controlling both the USA and ISIS.
https://crushzion.k0nsl.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/russia-anti-israel-jew-semitic-propaganda-isis-syria-moslem-islam-iraq-al-qaida-terrorist-translate.png


Posted by: BiffaBacon | Oct 25 2015 0:32 utc | 54

Candidates come, candidates go, Pick one, join in the facade, I will.
For me, this is the new American electoral problem.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=14545

Posted by: ben | Oct 25 2015 1:34 utc | 55

BB @ 52: I see you continue to denigrate this site. Paid much?

Posted by: ben | Oct 25 2015 1:40 utc | 56

Neretva @38:

Do not forget eyeglasses while shooting, NRA did not say this.
http://www.captreeopticians.com/shooting-glasses/ranger-classic

-----
Rant on: it is a pinnacle of irresponsibility to provide such dubious links. Shooting glasses indeed! But do they satisfy any standards? That page does not mention any! My advise is to keep money in the wallet unless you see something like that:

Ballistic Protection Standards
Compliant With: U.S. MIL SPEC MIL-DTL-43511D (Clause 3.5.10), ANSI Z87.1-2010, U.S. Federal OSHA, CE EN 166

like in
http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/ep01bk1-cam.html
Don’t let fogging jeopardize the safety of your mission. The ESS TurboFanTM Series provides the best weapon available for keeping your vision clear during situations where perspiration or temperatures are extreme. With a built-in fan that literally blows humidity out of the goggle at 13,000 rpm, no technology is more effective at dramatically reducing lens fogging.

Like the regular ESS Profile NVGTM goggle, the Profile TurboFanTM is a compact system compatible with night vision systems and helmets. The durable closed-cell face OpFoamTM face padding is easy to clean and ideal for extended comfort in all weather conditions.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 25 2015 1:57 utc | 57

Someone on this comment board brought up the CFR, and that made me think, about the reach of such special interest groups, and their influence on American politics. What, if it were the CFR that organized what ever it was you would call that silly congressional hearing America witnessed for eleven strange hours this past week. This was that magical moment whereas Madam Clinton would officially launch her 2016 presidential race. Trust me, that so called CNN debate, did nothing for Hillary's desire to conquer the Democrats presidential nomination. What helped her the most, so far, was her patiently sitting there in order that her inquisitors would grill her with such disrespect, and to what her ardent supporters would consider, a shameless politicizing witch hunt to no end. What did we learn? Mostly, that Sidney Blumenthal is nothing more than some business acquaintance of the Clintons. By the end of this Washington made for TV drama, and for what has been referred too, as the Republicans prosecution of poor Grandma Clinton, I will ask you all once again, what in the heck did we news junky's all learn, that was new about the 9/11/12 Benghazi attack? Apparently, by it's mention inside of today's moonofalabama article, even Hillary's admission of regime change, in regard to Libya, flew over our American heads. It would be way too much for us Americans to rely on our wonderful corporate news anchors, and pundits, to guarantee something as this regime change admission would be brought to our attention. Something this big could never get reported objectively, with America's controlled corporate news media. Then they wonder why everyone is clambering to the Internet, to get their news. In the end the Republican congressional representatives looked good to their respective constituency, and Hillary may have guaranteed herself a path to the White House. How great is that, everybody wins.

(As a side note; will President Hillary on day one, order the White House cleaning staff to disinfect the Oval Office? Sorry, just say'n!)

What I cannot get over, with all the fuss over Benghazi, why is no one grilling David Petraeus. After all, it was Petraeus's CIA compound, where four Americans met their fatal fate. Don't the good congressional people want to do right by these four brave American heroes, and their families. On any September eleventh day, in any year, wouldn't it be wise to order an American ambassador to stay inside, especially any ambassadors stationed in one of a few of the Middle Eastern countries, who might have an axe to grind with the U.S.? Okay, I understand, its me, isn't it? This whole Benghazi episode has the feel of a Brzezinski inspired, Petraeus implemented plan, gone wrong. At that particle time in the 2012 presidential election cycle, a gone wrong plan, would have also reflected badly on a president running for a second term. Webster Tarpley actually points a finger to a covert Mitt in the mix. Although, I'm not completely sold on the Romney involvement, I will buy into a CIA double cross, which brought the revengeful crazies out in force that day. Brzezinski, and Petraeus, love using the bad guy, to fight the other bad guy, and this is where one conniving nobleman could find themselves in a really tight squeeze. I will leave you all with this thought; would a cheating general let out a news leak, about his scandalous sexual affair, in order that said general would escape prosecution for a war crime? Remember, this 2015, and one should never say never, again.


Sent from my iPad

Posted by: Joe Tedesky | Oct 25 2015 2:06 utc | 58

Contrary to what most here seem to believe, poll after poll after poll have indicated for years that a majority of Americans do not want overseas military interventions, invasions, or military meddling. The majority of Americans want overseas military bases closed. The majority of Americans want the money spent on senseless foreign wars spent instead on infrastructure and improvements within the US.

But like citizens of most every other country, Americans are primarily concerned with their domestic affairs and economy and that is what determines elections, not foreign policy as stupid as most Americans know it to be. Issues such as social security and the unemployment rate take precedence.

So, the bipartisan empire continues.

Posted by: sleepy | Oct 25 2015 2:24 utc | 59

"No one living today is guilty of any bad treatment of the Indians."

They most certainly are: http://lakotalaw.org/

It's an awful tale - children taken from their parents and put into foster homes. There they are used as guinea pigs for the drug companies who grease South Dakota politicians with their campaign contributions. The Native American's are powerless, and at the mercy of these corrupt state organizations.

Every morning, South Dakota’s Department of Social Services seize Lakota children with no warning.

Every afternoon, Lakota parents start looking for their children when they don’t return from school. The state claims that it does not have to immediately notify the family or tribe in the event of the seizure of a child. Many families don’t realize that their children can be taken without any notification. ...

Every evening, young Lakota foster children in state custody struggle to fall asleep away from their family.

Every day, Lakota grandparents and relatives are illegally denied a South Dakota foster license. In traditional Lakota culture, grandparents and other relatives always took care of the children, however, since South Dakota often denies foster licenses, relatives are not allowed to be the caretakers of these children....

When most Lakota children wake up to for their 18th birthdays, it is more of dreaded date than a celebration. This is the time when those in foster care will exit the state system and be sent into the world with very little preparation or tools to be successful. By age 20, over 60% are homeless, in prison, or dead.

Like the "advance" from slavery to Jim Crow to the mass incarceration Black Americans are facing now, the US government has stopped the outright genocide of native people but has done nothing to help them live. In fact, it uses their position of powerlessness to make money off of their lives.

The Native People are worse off than any group in America. So no, this idea that the horrors of manifest destiny are in the past and that the state (and ultimately the people) owe the native people nothing is incorrect to say the least.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 25 2015 2:29 utc | 60

Joe T @ 56 said:

" In the end the Republican congressional representatives looked good to their respective constituency, and Hillary may have guaranteed herself a path to the White House. How great is that, everybody wins."

Very perceptive Joe. This was theater to generate sympathy for HRC. She IS the Empires' choice.

Posted by: ben | Oct 25 2015 2:47 utc | 61

sleepy @ 57: Great post, absolutely true!

Posted by: ben | Oct 25 2015 2:50 utc | 62

@58 guest77

That's a good post. While outside the US there are still lands and resources to be exploited, within the US gone are the days when 'Indians' or Black Americans had exploitable land or labor to awaken the lust of the oligarchs - although what little each may have left is duly exploited. Now the very existence of those of us 'Indian' or Black is exploited by the foster 'care' and prison industries. We're worth more to the TNCs institutionalized and on our backs than we are on our feet, living real human lives in freedom.

The whole of us are next, as the tide runs out of the sea of humanity. When it comes to human beings it's the TNCs, and the cyborgs who populate and run them - sterile slaves to corporate ends themselves - that exploit all the rest of us now, fish out of water; starting at the shore as the waters recede and moving out to the dry seabed itself.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 25 2015 3:33 utc | 63

@jfl - thanks very much.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 25 2015 4:12 utc | 64

Penelope, it is sad when you refuse to see that our present actions as an empire, both internally and externally, have been and are a continuation of the squabbles of the European mindset. You, like all of us in the US, are complicit. I would be wasting my time to suggest that you read the articles written at http://andrevltchek.weebly.com/ by Andre Vltchek. If I disagree with him, it is because he does not go far enough in his criticism of the west, and the US in particular.

Someone once asked me: 'If you feel like that, why don't you leave the USA?' My answer was then, and is now: because 'I have American genes and the rest of the world is bad enough off without those genes or the genes of my fellow countrymen messing up their world.'

Incidently, my heritage includes:
Scots
Brits (english, welsh)
Polyglot
and way down the list one of those millions of Cherokee Princesses so many people claim.

Posted by: Rg an LG | Oct 25 2015 4:17 utc | 65

As posted by VENDET on Oct 24, 2015 3:27:32 PM – COMMENT # 17

” Competent opponents don't make any difference in that US 4-yearly circus called an election. It doesn't bring any change in foreign policy and hardly noticeable change in domestic policy. The only thing the circus brings is a new face, lot's of promises that never materialize and a brief impression of hope; of change.”?

So the question we should all ask is why? Why does it not make a difference that a leftist such as Obama has promulgated the same kinds of policies as a republican, say, Bush, the younger? Why did Holland in France promoting the same kind of policies as Sarkozy? This repeats in the Western world ad nausea. Well, the only logical explanation is that they are not in control. And the fact that this repeats in other Western “democracies” means that whoever it is (it is a cadre of them, however small in number they are) controls more than one country. So why are we pretending that this is not so?! Why do we berate the politicians? They are paid servants. They are to do what they are told. The “invisible hands” of control – the shadow government, with the aid of the military and security services, sees to it, through various processes, the leading one of which, being blackmail (remember when the Wikileaks came out where it was evident that Mrs. Clinton was demanding the bank accounts numbers, and other very personal information of diplomats from other nations?) I find it odd that so many of you, as intelligent, well-informed, and savvy as you all are, still keep berating politicians as if seemingly believing that the politicians have any choices once they decide to run for office! Mr. Sanders cannot speak against the Empire altogether. Should he so do, he may find himself in “hole lot of trouble”, -- as in being able to stay alive. Obama, -- the same. I actually think that Mr. Obama is the Manchurian Candidate that the CIA had been working towards, already since decades ago. New technologies are available to selectively brain-wash the human mind – so, when he says certain things, he may very well have been brainwashed to say them – hereto, the genuine sincerity with which he says them, however out-of-character that these pronouncements might be. There shall be no hope for us, for democracy, for decency, for genuine care for humanity, without demolishing the military/CIA, period. They are the higher servants on the totem pole to the “shadowy individuals” who run this world, -- or almost all of it – they now want Russia and China, for the eventual total World or Global Autocracy – a project towards which, they have been stealthily and earnestly working for many decades. Again, however sanguine am advising that you all become, I am in no way wishing to conveying disrespect towards any of you, in any way! It is just frustrating to see the weird juxtaposition of great intelligence, education, and savvyness with a suspended disbelief of how world currently really works, and is!

Posted by: susette | Oct 25 2015 6:17 utc | 66

Harry Law @ 22, Thanks for the link. I'll finish reading it later, looks like a link I should file. Two comments: I have long thought that UN General Assy votes should be by secret ballot to forestall the usual US bullying & bribery. You may not know that the US exempts itself from jurisdiction by the ICC. Not that it matters; I think they've so far brought to trial only Africans. Outrageous! I understand that the ICC is totally politicized all the way through the judicial cases, too.
--
Thank you Sleepy @ 57, You are the only one who has named correctly what Americans really want

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 25 2015 7:57 utc | 67

Thank you Guest77 @ 58, That's absolutely horrifying. Far better to give a fact-filled narration like that one than to sling guilt about something that happened 200 years ago as if you expected us to have time travel.

--
Rg and LG @ 63, I am NOT complicit, and you have not the slightest idea what I see or don't see

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 25 2015 8:01 utc | 68

// I watched the last Cross Talk - hadn’t seen any in a while - because Pepe Escobar was on and I kind of enjoy him. Lavelle lost his temper, literally, he went red in the face and couldn’t stop himself grimacing and shut out a lady called Rachida (Sp) who would certainly have had something interesting to say, she was going to address the issues raised by the poll in Syria I posted some ways back. Lavelle seems to be stuck on one opposition mantra - stupid is as stupid does (USA!) //

Hillary. The funny thing is that the Republicans could easily win the election, I could tell them how to do it. They have been struggling with a new slant, image, etc. along the more ‘inclusive’ line (the Bush 1 election was won through fraud, but if we consider he did win, it was because more Hispanics than usual and a large majority of Muslims voted for him ..) but they have difficulty because ‘reaching out,’ it goes against their electoral core (white, old, rich, though it isn’t as simple as that.) But it could be done. Also of course they don’t have a candidate. (Trump is a whole other ball game.)

Besides that, see here: Forget the debate, Two simple reasons a Republican will win in 2016. Though it is uncertain whether such analysis is relevant to today’s confusion, and the Donald.

http://tinyurl.com/nqfwyrd

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 25 2015 8:49 utc | 69

Why does it not make a difference that a leftist such as Obama has promulgated the same kinds of policies as a republican, say, Bush, the younger? Why did Holland in France promoting the same kind of policies as Sarkozy? susette at 64.

You can add the spiffing Trudeau junior. He is pro-Maidan and 100% supports democracy and the Canadian ‘Ukranian’ community. He is anti-Putin with virulence. Anti BDS and pro Israel. These links are all mainstream, text. brief.

http://tinyurl.com/otzjehg

http://tinyurl.com/ob2sqom

http://tinyurl.com/neyapck

http://tinyurl.com/lbgve8h

He has withdrawn Canadian bombers from Iraq and Syria (was an electoral promise) to concentrate on ‘humanitarian aid’

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34589250

He has said elsewhere (see other links) that he intends to train Syrian opposition fighters!

Here an article about ‘watching Trudeau’s promises’ - role of women, taxes on the middle class, Syrian refugees, climate change…and dead silence on the rest!

http://tinyurl.com/q3mfra2

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 25 2015 9:01 utc | 70

susette @ 64 says:

Why do we berate the politicians

and

They are to do what they are told

and

Mr. Sanders cannot speak against the Empire altogether

and

New technologies are available to selectively brain-wash the human mind

and

...when he(Obama) says certain things, he may very well have been brainwashed to say them

and

blah, blah, blah...

well, i've said it before, i'll say it again...

idiocy is renewed with every generation.

(god, b, this place is crawling with crypto-dems)

Posted by: john | Oct 25 2015 10:22 utc | 71

Lochearn @21 (emphasis added)

For Hillary, Libya was perfectly rational and I’m sure she still considers it a huge success. ... When another guest, Sam Husseini, pointed out that in their terms they were acting perfectly rationally, that the aim was to produce failed states, he was openly mocked and shouted down by Lavelle. Is rationality a meaningless concept?

All semantics anyway so I don't _really_ wanna argue about it, but we don't use the irrational person's self-assessment when deciding whether her actions are rational or not.

Hillary is primarily a warrior for the rational self-interest of the US financial oligarchy, i.e., basically 'Wall Street'. That oligarchy wants to have good and eventually domineering relations with any country that is moving towards 'open economic borders' and neoliberal rule. Both Libya and Syria were doing that prior to their invasions, so destroying them is irrational from an "I represent 'Wall Street'" perspective. On the other hand Hillary is _also_ a warrior for the neoconservative constituency, the military-industrial complexes of the US and Israel. That constituency requires chaos and terrorism, scary enemies, in order to justify its massive size. So for that constituency it is rational to produce failed states.

As many here have said, all mainstream Presidential candidates represent both constituencies and sometimes choices have to be made between the needs of one and the other. Hillary, especially compared to Obama, _does_ seem to lean to the neoconservative side ...

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 25 2015 10:52 utc | 72

The reason Republicans were able to go after Hills is no one can reveal the 'classified information' the Benghazi compound was the command and control-center for shipping weapons to Syria. For Republicans it would be counterproductive since their trying to destroy her chance to be Prez. For Dems revealing that classified info would put Hils in the dock for war crimes.

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 25 2015 11:22 utc | 74

Sergei Lavrov: "that Russia's airforce could support the so-called Free Syrian Army rebels, if it knew where they were." This meme has appeared in all western MSM. I call attention to the last 6 words. If US reveals where they are (if they're anywhere?) Russia will bomb them. If the US doesn't reveal where they are, that means they're 'nowhere'.

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 25 2015 11:52 utc | 75

Some democrats are waking up - impressive interview with congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard speaking simple truth

I would vote for her.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25 2015 12:22 utc | 76

Tertiary sidebar response to biffabacon challenging POTUS resume

MANY comments online by his Con Law professor Lawrence Tribe, including remarks from his diary when he interviewed him for admission. Criticisms throughout his student's presidency re executive over-reach and inadequate response to climate change. Just google their names together. I recognized Professor Tribe's name from my own legal education – it was on our con law hornbook. And my con law professor wrote a book with him. (Spelling may be Laurence)

Posted by: Deneicy | Oct 25 2015 12:24 utc | 77

Lots of interesting comments to read on MOA today.

Connecting dots?

Paula Broadwell Leaks Info on Benghazi Annex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PgsLSsSKMI

Deadly School Stabbing Highlights Racial Tensions in Sweden
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/10/24/world/europe/ap-eu-sweden-school-attack.html?_r=1

Revolt against Saudi King Salman gains pace: report
http://atimes.com/2015/10/drive-to-oust-king-salman-gains-pace-says-report/

Lots of headlines on India and China. So much to read today.

One conclusion I have is that melting pots don't always work out so well. I wonder what the social engineering professors are teaching now days. World events are like some sort of chaos mathematical equation. Can one little drop in the ocean really change a pattern? So many variables.

One thing. The more MSM trashes Trump, the more I am eyeballing him. But, like someone commented, he could get himself killed. So much destruction, might it be a time to build? I am so naive...

Posted by: shadyl | Oct 25 2015 13:07 utc | 78

Hillary going down because of Benghazi is not fun as it's kind of known what exactly transpired. On the other hand, the Bin Laden story has a lot more shock value and it's currently picking up steam.

Posted by: S | Oct 25 2015 13:25 utc | 79


Free Syria Army spokesman rejected Russia's offer for air support "the Russia's cannot be trusted".

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 25 2015 13:40 utc | 80

Things Fall Apart

Things fall apart describes the economy of every developed nation and the balance of power that the world has known since the end of World War II.

The powers that be have lost control. After almost a century of playing the Wizard of Oz, the curtain is disintegrating. Institutions to ensure control, stability and prosperity are failing. People and markets were not to be trusted and most of these institutions were established to protect against such freedom. Bureaucrats, central planners and big governments were to be the answers for a better world.

The damage of nearly a century of this nonsense is suddenly becoming evident. Things fall apart is characterized by institutions that no longer are trusted or believed in. Few institutions are seen to work and when they do they are increasingly seen as favoring the elites at the expense of the masses.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-24/things-fall-apart

WTF:
More and More Countries Are Beginning to Outlaw Cash For Certain Transactions
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-24/more-and-more-countries-are-beginning-outlaw-cash-certain-transactions

Another WTF:
Tony Blair Apologizes For Iraq War Mistakes But Does Not Regret Toppling Saddam Hussein
http://www.ibtimes.com/tony-blair-apologizes-iraq-war-mistakes-does-not-regret-toppling-saddam-hussein-2155309

Trump had interesting convo on CNN this morning.

Posted by: shadyl | Oct 25 2015 13:43 utc | 81

Ben @ # 54

Was beginning to think along similar lines . . . . that being haven't heard from Cold Field . . . morphed into Bacon Butties perhaps

Posted by: Kiwicris | Oct 25 2015 14:10 utc | 82

okie farmer @73: I think it might be a lot more interesting and positive than that, in my humble opinion. The few rational, authentic and non-head-chopping rebels see that Russia (in combination with forces of Iran/Iraq/Hezbollah/Syria) is now and going forward the dominant power in the Syrian space. The only great power to actually use its own military in Syria. So the FSA might want to find out how big the huge slice of power (and positions) for Sunnis is in any future compromise agreement and get first in line for all that. So, gotta talk to the Russians.

Russia would be motivated by getting the 'real' subsection of the Free Syrian Army on the government side. And talking with the FSA will inevitably make any agreement down the road more possible, broad-based, and authentic, and be another great propaganda victory for Russia and everyone interested in a compromise peace.

There are right now conflicting stories: RT.com: FSA proposes Russia to hold talks on Syrian crisis in Cairo – official, and AlJazeera: Russia offers to coordinate with rebels and US in Syria ... [Subhead:] Free Syrian Army rejects Russia's offer to cooperate, saying Russian air force jets regularly target FSA positions. There may be some dissension within FSA, or more likely the group is initially and prudently playing hard to get and loyal to 'US/KSA', but (most of it) is actually interested in what Russia has to offer. Interest strengthened by the Syrian Army's recent gains and of course by getting pounded on the head whenever they get in the way of SAA and Russian military plans.

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 25 2015 14:52 utc | 83

somebody @74: Great video, thanks. Gabbard should be a rising star; she presents herself with great calm and command, and punches hard the key and very popular position that the US should not be helping Al Qaeda and ISIS take over Syria and turn it into hell on earth. Mentions Libya, directly opposes Hillary. Great.

Smiled when Blitzer got his 'dirty old man' thing going there at the end.

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 25 2015 15:24 utc | 84

Who constitutes the FSA at all at this point, that is what I would like to know. Are there commanders and unints with real indpendence and territory or is there just some guys in a hotel in Turkey claiming some al Nusrah battalions as theirs?

Posted by: Guest77 | Oct 25 2015 15:27 utc | 85

@85 Good question guest. Will any of these moderate opposition leaders be running for election? My sense is they won't last 5 minutes back in Damascus.

Posted by: dh | Oct 25 2015 15:38 utc | 86

fairleft says:

There are right now conflicting stories

that's de rigueur dude

here's your conflict

Posted by: john | Oct 25 2015 15:42 utc | 87

F@83

I see that you are stuck in the Fairyland of Denial and developing alternate realities to deflect from the real story.

Lavrov is begging the Liver Eaters to join their other enemies to fight the Islamic State who have cut the SAA supply line to their forces in Aleppo. The FSA groups are bemused by this strange Russian nonsense, while they are being attacked with thermobaric weapons and Lavrov's asking the US to locate/target the FSA forces for them. What happened to the Russian/Iranian so called intelligence and complete control and knowledge of the battlefield?

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 25 2015 15:52 utc | 88

Penelope @41

yes, really troubling; we've had a softer version of such political meddling by the president here in Italy, by Giorgio Napolitano, leading in particular to Italy's support of Nato's bombing of Libya and the substitution of Berlusconi by Mario Monti with the task of draining internal resources, so as to repay the debt Greece owed to French and German banks and at the same time rebalance foreign trade through the crushing of internal demand

Posted by: claudio | Oct 25 2015 16:18 utc | 89

who are the "moderate rebels"? it'll be the factions sponsored by countries that decide to come to terms with Russian strategy, and have a seat at the table when the political process begins; Us influence over the process will be wiped out by this move

Posted by: claudio | Oct 25 2015 16:30 utc | 90

@4 That Iceland has been able to boot out the money-power and has still been left alone probably means that they have nothing they want or are too small to worry about. However, as Perkins points out in "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" it's a protection racket, same as one that would be run by a gang in a city, on a global scale. If a small shop bucks the system, then it MUST be made an example of, if a small fish escapes the net the big fish will be looking for the same out.

Putin certainly hasn't kicked them out (the Russian Central bank is still firmly within their orbit, and BRICS is controlled by the money-power), no debt free money there? is Putin even trying?

@53 I'm not sure about that Penelope. If they tried that the origins of ISIS would become blindingly obvious to the average punter.

Here's a summary of the MSM's ISIS effort however, a few have been missed out.

@23 yes what's happening at RT? Max Keiser looked deranged or on something the other day but then he did interview Dimitri Orlov so it was good put a face to a name.

Posted by: Optimist | Oct 25 2015 16:38 utc | 91

C@90

The confusing label Moderate was probably chosen because Secular, supporting Western political ideas, would be too easily confused with Sectarian. There are about a dozen Syrian rebel groups who were vetted by the US using this metric and I think most are under the umbrella of the Free Syrian Army.

These rebel groups and many others are mortal enemies of Assad and now Putin who's strategy seems near insane, bombing them and sending their other enemy Iran with the SAA to kill them while you supposedly want to ally with them against the IS.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 25 2015 16:51 utc | 92

68;Mona,is that you?
Re Morsi and Egypt,the Saudis do nothing the Ziomonsters don't want.Do you hear the silence from the MSM regarding this Yemen disaster,their obvious support of terrorists throughout the ME,and OBL,the Saudi,and 15 other Saudis allegedly doing 9-11?Its deafening.
And the use of c*nt,is that different than dick,or prick?Or cocksucker?Unless as a female you put more weight on the woman slur?I rarely use it myself,though,it is appropriate for that witch with the track record of failure that in any sane world would preclude her running for POTUS.But again see the MSM,and their control of our discourse,look at their coronation after that useless hearing.
Rg an Lg;Re Americanism;My sentiments and heritage exactly.Although born on St.Crispins Day,I consider myself a yankee doodle dandy.
Yankee Come Home,please?

Posted by: dahoit | Oct 25 2015 16:54 utc | 93

@92 A smooth transition seems a long way off. Wait till the moderate rebels start killing each other for a slice of the pie. That might be a good time to grab the Golan.

Posted by: dh | Oct 25 2015 17:22 utc | 94

wow @92 - nothing insane in Putin's policy, it's a simple either you are with us or against us; with the plus that if you are with us, you get combat support and a seat at the table (and the minus that if you aren't, you might get bombed);

it's not meant to attract masses of rebels, but to splinter their groups and alliances, sow doubts and divisions by offering concrete alternatives, and to objectively define the requirements for participation to the political process: everybody who fights against Isis and Al-Qaeda and renounces to oppose Assad with weapons, may participate

but most of all, it gives the possibility to a hostile country that decides to play along with Putin, to arrange a group that conforms to the new definition of moderate rebel, so it has guarantees it will have the means for indirect participation in the Syrian internal political process;

it's quite a compromise, in my view, because it's true that rebels (and their foreign handlers) hate Assad, but also the viceversa holds, which is why Putin wanted to announce this policy shift together with Assad in Moscow, as if to guarantee that promises will be kept

Posted by: claudio | Oct 25 2015 17:31 utc | 95

@95 wow only has the interests of the Syrian people at heart so he dreams of a smooth transition. Putin is a realist. There are no moderate rebels in Putin's book. Just mercenaries and armed opportunists.

Posted by: dh | Oct 25 2015 17:48 utc | 96

Noam Chomsky & Abby Martin: Electing The President Of An Empire
https://youtu.be/mBZLnfKSa_k

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 25 2015 18:16 utc | 97

not much time for people on the ground (and their foreign supporters) to decide how moderate they are, anyways: Putin wants early parliamentary and presidential elections; he sure knows the risks of protracted entanglement and unconclusive talks, and wants to set clear benchmarks; elections, b presciently said somewhere, would be legitimate even with 70% of the population having the possibility to participate; and after elections, who is in is in, who is out is out

Posted by: claudio | Oct 25 2015 18:17 utc | 98

@98 ....elections followed by accusations of rigging.

Posted by: dh | Oct 25 2015 18:28 utc | 99

Rg an LG @ 65.
.
It was wrong what immigrant Europeans hundreds of years ago did to the Indians. I do not call them native Americans because the term is foolish. Everyone born here is a native American and when the earlier Indians were born here it WASN'T America. At that time a larger and better area ought to have been reserved for the Indians. I object to the constant guilt-flinging at Americans over something that happened hundreds of years ago.

Look at the whole thing from a different angle: Who do you think are today's "Indians"? What is today's stone age tribe? What nation refuses to understand property rights & seems incorrigible in its habits of theft? What nation is so primitive that it fails to observe the most elemental cooperation between tribes (nations)? What nation makes slaves (vassals & puppets) of the other nations?

What do you think is going to happen to that nation? Do you suppose that hundreds of years from now some guilt-flinging Frenchman or Belgian is going to be alleging that the nations of the world ought to have rescued the American people from the nuclear wasteland that their country will have become? Will your prototype in the future say, "Yeah, but a lot of them were peaceful and had great skills & they invented the this & the that."? And some dumb sociologist will write a book about how it's the fault of today's Frenchmen & Belgians not to have found a way to live with a nation so primitive that it killed women & children & seemed to enjoy torture. He will write that future Frenchmen & Belgians born hundreds of years hence have somehow inherited "guilt" over what happened to the American nation.

Instead of idealizing the noble savage of the past and imagining yourself so able that you could have saved the Indians hundreds of years ago if you had been contemporaries-- instead of such a stupidity face the challenge of living today. What a cheapshot to puff yourself up because you have compassion for massacred Indians who died hundreds of years ago so that your compassion burdens you with taking not a single action! I have compassion for them too. So what?!

I tire of witnessing moral poseurs. If you are so moral involve youself in the burning moral issue of TODAY-- how are we to free ourselves of an atavistic international cult using banking and America as their particular tools?

Today's "Indians", the helpless American nation of ordinary people possessing as much morality as any other, cannot figure out how to rid themselves of their sociopathic gangster chieftans. Nor can we make them stop stealing other people's horses. If you truly possess the milk of human kindness and compassion then apply the little gray cells to the problem of dispossessing this criminal class who are probably well-represented in whatever country YOU live, too.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 25 2015 18:50 utc | 100

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