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September 24, 2015
Open Thread 2015-34
News & views …
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Thought you all would be interested in this: Posted by: Mark Gaughan | Sep 24 2015 18:50 utc | 1 Erdogan visited Putin yesterday hoping he could convince Putin to give up on Assad. Instead, Putin said “Nyet”. Posted by: plantman | Sep 24 2015 19:22 utc | 2 nice feel good story for anyone interested.. check out the video… Posted by: james | Sep 24 2015 20:49 utc | 3 I’ll start off with by saying , fuck Bernie Sanders. Calling Hugo Chavez ” A dead Communist dictator ” is lying bullshit propaganda in service of the US Empire that Bernie is so in love with. Posted by: tom | Sep 24 2015 20:54 utc | 4 Turkey’s a Dialogue Partner within the SCO, since 2012, and the SCO has a very big anti-terrorism component that’s part of its mission, which is why Pakistan and India’s becoming full members is of such importance. Erdogan’s support of Daesh has him burning his bridges to Europe and Asia simultaneously, which can’t enamor him to Turkish elites and is totally against true Turkish national interests. Given his behavior, I doubt Turkey will be welcomed into the Eurasian Economic Union, become part of China’s Silk Road project, or advance beyond being an SCO Dialogue Partner–not because of the European racism that’s kept Turkey out of the EU, but because of Erdogan’s behavior and policy choices. I don’t see Erdogan having any future in Turkish politics. Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 24 2015 21:02 utc | 5 About good feel stories: a European girl comes to an Asian country, sings in the local language and the locals get totally emotional. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA6uHf7-9HA Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 24 2015 21:20 utc | 6 @4 tom.. i’m a canuck.. i have a close friend here who grew up in the usa.. most of his family are in the usa.. he’s enamoured with bernie sanders.. i don’t know much about the man – mostly cause i haven’t looked into him.. he is pushing the right buttons on some level and my friend is no mental midget either, but i wonder if the latest incarnation of ”hopey changey’ starting with clinton, moving onto obama and now with sanders is going to amount to much of anything if he were to make it to the prez orifice.. Posted by: james | Sep 24 2015 21:33 utc | 7 Frome Private Eye: THE Langwell Estate near Ullapool in the Scottish Highlands offers grouse shooting, deer stalking and other opportunities to blow away wildlife. Its lodge rents for £4,250 per week in high season. In 2012, the estate received about £250,000 (€300,408) in EU agricultural subsidies. The estate’s owner, as Eye readers may recall, is Britain’s best-paid editor, Paul Dacre of… the not-very-EU-friendly Daily Mail! Posted by: Lochearn | Sep 24 2015 21:35 utc | 8 @3 james
Israel has 70% Arab speakers. I didn’t know that. After the settlement of ‘the troubles’, with Northern Ireland still in English hands, I remember reading a comparison of Catholic and Scots-Irish populations there and their relative birth rates, with the conclusion drawn that on the ground it made no difference. Maybe the same is true in Israel. That makes me feel good. Jews and Arabs lived together for centuries all over the Middle East before the Western colonial Zionist Crusaders invaded. Maybe the beginning of another Thousand Year Reich’s biting the dust. All that lovely dust in the video. Posted by: jfl | Sep 24 2015 21:39 utc | 9 Now this is interesting … look at the comments … is there a commonality? I detect at least two threads, but challenge you to think about what you see. Is this function of the blogger? of the readers? or, perhaps, of the whiskey? Posted by: Rg an LG | Sep 24 2015 21:51 utc | 10
Wonder if Angela will stab her countrymen and women in the back again?
I guess that, brought up an apparatchik sucking up to the USSR, it’s only natural for Angela now to act the good little apparatchik and suck up to the USSA? Posted by: jfl | Sep 24 2015 21:58 utc | 11 @1 Mark there are two other John Helmer that recently preceded the one you linked. Worth a read for those who don’t think that MH17 is a musical group. Posted by: SingingSam | Sep 24 2015 22:12 utc | 13 @1 & @13 Posted by: Bob | Sep 24 2015 23:10 utc | 14 Posted by: tom | Sep 24, 2015 4:54:06 PM | 4 Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 24 2015 23:30 utc | 15 On feel good, remember the the speech even if coached a young girl gave to save or planet? Then I read this morning Saudia Arabia is (be)heading Human Rights of a month, that is the oxymoron of feel good or being good, headless chicken if you axe me! Posted by: Kevin | Sep 24 2015 23:46 utc | 17 Given this piece of news, Posted by: ben | Sep 24 2015 23:52 utc | 18 @14 Posted by: Tom in AZ | Sep 24 2015 23:53 utc | 19 IF voting really matters, the question, whether voters realize it or not, is, do I get to share a bigger piece of spoils of the empire’s conquests, or not? Sick. The answer is, of course, not if you labor for a living. Posted by: ben | Sep 25 2015 0:04 utc | 20 Karlof1 @5: I don’t think Erdogan’s embrace of terrorism wd cause him to be estranged from Europe. NATO is behind Boko Haram in Africa, has made no serious objection to Nazism in Ukraine, and if they oppose any of the jihadi mercenaries they’ve kept it a secret. They’ve certainly gone along w helping US pretend to fight ISIS. They’ve enthusiastically supported US in its anti-Assad program; surely they know that the means is ISIS, etc. Posted by: Penelope | Sep 25 2015 0:45 utc | 21 @ James at 3 and JFL at 9: Posted by: Jen | Sep 25 2015 1:21 utc | 22 Where is that wretched quote about how this is a unipolar world, and the Empire ACTS and it’s up to us to just study what they do. You know the quote I mean. Well, I’m just enjoying the hell out of this: Posted by: Penelope | Sep 25 2015 1:47 utc | 23 nmb @ 16: Thanks for the link, good read. From that article: Posted by: ben | Sep 25 2015 2:30 utc | 24 http://www.todayszaman.com/latest-news_turkeys-erdogan-says-assad-may-be-part-of-syria-transition-process_399907.html Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 25 2015 3:06 utc | 25 sorry if i missed any comments directed to me.. Posted by: james | Sep 25 2015 3:29 utc | 26 @14 & @19 Posted by: SingingSam | Sep 25 2015 3:36 utc | 27 D@24 Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 25 2015 5:26 utc | 28 Putin on the Syrian Refugee Crisis: Nobody will pass the buck to Russia
China deploys troops to help Russia in Syria
Don’t know about the Chinese but the Iranians seem to be on board. Looks like Putin will have a fait accompli to present to the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate in New York … that is if the Japanese and Russian leaders are able to finish their conference in time for Putin to meet with Obama. Posted by: jfl | Sep 25 2015 6:29 utc | 29 @22 Jen @26 James Posted by: jfl | Sep 25 2015 6:49 utc | 30 @jfl | Sep 25, 2015 2:49:45 AM | 30
Israel lost the battle, but not the war (yet). Next US president might sabotage either the deal itself, or reimpose sanctions on another fake pretext, like human rights or “support of terrorism”. Speaking of which, US Senate is already considering sanctions on Iran based on it. http://goo.gl/AX8HuK Posted by: Harry | Sep 25 2015 7:16 utc | 31 @ 24 Thank you Ben. It’s global indeed. You are absolutely right. Posted by: nmb | Sep 25 2015 9:52 utc | 32 Posted by: james | Sep 24, 2015 11:29:31 PM | 26 Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 25 2015 10:57 utc | 33 6 Posted by: Chipnik | Sep 25 2015 11:50 utc | 34 28 Posted by: Chipnik | Sep 25 2015 11:56 utc | 35 9 Posted by: Chipnik | Sep 25 2015 12:10 utc | 36 After the fiasco of Obama I will never believe the promises of any supposedly populist candidate for President again. But Sanders didn’t call out Chavez by name and his point was the tactics used by Hillary who undoubtedly called Chavez an “Anti-American Dictator” in order to smear Sanders. Another advantage of a weak President Sanders would be that when the people who voted for him see him being smeared and undermined every day by his Democratic friends – or even his own cabinet – it will be a strong incentive for the formation of a new party un-beholden to Wall St. and their ilk. Posted by: Diogenes | Sep 25 2015 12:49 utc | 38 What did the Pope say to Congress?Well,if you didn’t watch the speech,you’d never know,from the Ziomedia.Was it something about selling weapons in a blood drenched world? Posted by: dahoit | Sep 25 2015 14:04 utc | 39 It’s nice to see a humorist here at MOA, a ‘Third Party’, that’s a real hoot. Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 25 2015 14:16 utc | 40 #39 dahoit
Do you think he was talking about Saudi Arabia and Syria and Yemen? Apparently Bonehead invited him …
Posted by: jfl | Sep 25 2015 15:05 utc | 41 “Given the numerous lines of evidence for the IS affinities of Liwa Shuhada’ al-Yarmouk, one may ask why IS has not already announced a new ‘wilaya’ (province), in this case a Wilayat Deraa, which would from a propaganda viewpoint mark a significant ‘expansion’ in that even its predecessor ISIS, which was much more widely (and thinly) spread across Syria, never had a foothold in the province on account of the loyalty of Jabhat al-Nusra affiliates to Jowlani. One answer may be that the problem for IS is that the territory currently controlled by Liwa Shuhada’ al-Yarmouk is not contiguous with the rest of its holdings in Syria and Iraq, or it may be the announcement is only a matter of time.” Posted by: Mina | Sep 25 2015 15:10 utc | 42 “In an historic address Pope Francis becomes the first pontiff in history to speak to a joint meeting of the United States Congress in Washington. He broached a number of subjects in his speech once more touching upon the issue of climate change and calling on Americans to embrace immigrants from Latin America and around the world.” Posted by: ben | Sep 25 2015 15:10 utc | 43 vice prez kalla on the made in indon toxic smog engulfing malaysia and sg, every yr this time for the past two decades. Posted by: denk | Sep 25 2015 15:23 utc | 44 Posted by: denk | Sep 25 2015 15:24 utc | 45 On the heels of the crane collapse in Mecca, a panic among pilgtims – reported to have been set off by Salman’s son the ‘defense minister’ and his heavily armed retinue – has killed a staggering 2000 of them …
Top-down or bottom-up looks like Salman is gonna go? He was just at the White House, wasn’t he? Basking in the warm, welcoming smile of the Nobel Peace Prixe Laureate slash Number One Purveyor of Arms to Slay Innocents in the World Today, who congratulated him on his recored 174, was it?, executions this year … no, actully he was congratulating him on Saudi’s new seat on the UN Human Rights Committee. They were smiling ear to ear : Barack the Arms Merchant for his phony Nobel and Salman for his phony human rights credential no doubt. Both taking great pleasure in black is white, war is peace, false is true. Posted by: jfl | Sep 25 2015 15:36 utc | 46 James @ 26: Posted by: farflungstar | Sep 25 2015 15:38 utc | 47 @43 ben
… not so many of the congress critters standing up for that one. Posted by: jfl | Sep 25 2015 16:53 utc | 48 @ 30 jfl.. i agree with your perspective here. Posted by: james | Sep 25 2015 16:55 utc | 49 @33 fast freddy and @47 farflungstar.. those sessions with the press are shocking for what they do and don’t say..yes – a saturday night live skit is about it, except they are representing warmonger incorporated, so it is more disturbing. this poster on youtube uploads many of these daily briefings from the state dept when it has to do with russia/ukraine.. i have been following the page for some time.. the state dept spokespeople follow much the same script regardless of the questions asked which is to offer up state propaganda while avoiding the questions or worse… Posted by: james | Sep 25 2015 17:05 utc | 50 I think it is reckless and dangerous for Putin to come to the US to address the UN. Posted by: plantman | Sep 25 2015 17:42 utc | 51 shaped charges Posted by: charles drake | Sep 25 2015 17:55 utc | 52 fast freddy@33 and james@50 The US state Department are a joke, they do not know what is going on in the world, even a glance at the newspapers might help them. In fact the next question to the mouthpiece should be.. Before I ask my question have you read any newspapers today,so that we start off on an even footing. Posted by: harry law | Sep 25 2015 18:17 utc | 53 Bringing Iran back into the Int’l community has changed everything. All diplomats are acting like Iran is now ‘in the fold.’ (Independently of commercial interests / deals. Iran as non-grata country is over. Actually that was over when the end-to-sanctions negotiations were about half way through.) The upcoming peace talks in Geneva (on Syria) will include Assad, Iran, Russia, all Assad opponents (questions as to who, etc.). ISIS – a terrorist organisation (that is the official position, see Putin) – will not be included. Anecdotally, it is said (even in Swiss press, so a rumor which is strongly bruited about), that the US and Russia have been having intense conversations about Syria and Iran for a few weeks now (not about Ukraine…which is now seemingly an abandoned project..) It seems that all the parties want this as soon as possible, which looks like being November. (The UN security council has to agree even if only implicitly.) Posted by: Noirette | Sep 25 2015 18:33 utc | 54 Yesterday, Saudi Arabia was named to head the Human Rights Council, and today I think they announced they are about to behead a 21-year-old Shia activist named Muhammed al-Nimr. Are you aware of that? Posted by: Noirette | Sep 25 2015 19:12 utc | 55 The Guardian is pushing a new think tank analysis, highlighting a perception of mistrust in Russian intentions for Syria, and recommending splitting Iraq and Syria into smaller statelets. The analysis also makes the absurd claim: “Russian troops are backing Assad in the fight against groups such as Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham, which are themselves opposed to Isis. If Russian troops do eventually join combat, therefore, they would also – technically – be assisting Isis,” Posted by: jayc | Sep 25 2015 19:24 utc | 56 James @26. Thanks. Love to read deserved squirming by US spokesmen for “Western values”. Posted by: Penelope | Sep 25 2015 19:25 utc | 57 dahoit @39 It’s what the pope DIDN’T SAY that was in the original draft. The paragraph was to introduce the punchline at the end, but he chickened out, omitted the whole para: Posted by: Penelope | Sep 25 2015 19:26 utc | 58 .. Posted by: Bob | Sep 25 2015 19:31 utc | 59 Support for Russian assistance to Syria from an unexpected source..”Vladimir Putin now pitches himself as Europe’s migrant-crisis saviour. Only by saving Assad, he argued, can we stem the flow. Bizarrely, he sounds as though he is making more sense than anyone else”.https://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9643672/putin-and-assad-have-made-fools-of-the-west/ Posted by: harry law | Sep 25 2015 19:34 utc | 60 jayc 56: just before the statement you cited from The Guardian, the expert of RUSI (Royal United Service Institute, all services from hair wash to blow jobs) made the following highly toughtful argument: QUOTE START Igor Sutyagin, a Russian strategic analyst, said there was an air regiment at Latakia with 28 planes, a battalion of motorised infantry and military engineers as well as a marine battalion at the naval base in Tartus. Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 25 2015 20:30 utc | 61 I don’t believe what I am reading by poster 61. Posted by: James lake | Sep 25 2015 20:59 utc | 62 Too bad the Pope chickened out in front of Congress. As I expected. Posted by: tom | Sep 25 2015 21:06 utc | 63 Ukrainian Link so you need to translate but it turns out NATO wrote Ukraine’s newly issued military doctrine. Which of course lists Russia as the top three (?) threats to their national security. Posted by: Bob | Sep 25 2015 22:03 utc | 64 JayC @56, Posted by: Penelope | Sep 25 2015 22:12 utc | 65 James lake @ 62, I think you are failing to recognize irony. (He doesn’t mean it; he is mocking those who wd assume such a conclusion; hence the exaggeration) Posted by: Penelope | Sep 25 2015 22:23 utc | 66 @65 ‘….some hawkish faction has just invented another new “moderate” group….’ Posted by: dh | Sep 25 2015 22:40 utc | 67 “These mouthpieces have been speaking in circle jerk for so long they don’t realize how stupid they sound.” Aron Lund of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace on the question of what Russia is going to bomb in Syria here. Posted by: persiflo | Sep 25 2015 23:22 utc | 69 @69 pretty weird link … I wouldn’t follow it if I were you. Looks like malware. Posted by: jfl | Sep 26 2015 1:01 utc | 70 @54, @55 Posted by: jfl | Sep 26 2015 1:28 utc | 71 in re 35, 58 Posted by: rufus magister | Sep 26 2015 1:52 utc | 72 oops — deleted “excommunicate him” but did not insert “crucify him.” Posted by: rufus magister | Sep 26 2015 1:54 utc | 73 persifio ant jfl, 69 & 70 Posted by: rufus magister | Sep 26 2015 2:01 utc | 74 Though attentions remained focused on Syria, the political situation in Banderastand continues to evolve. Posted by: rufus magister | Sep 26 2015 2:28 utc | 75 I think it is reckless and dangerous for Putin to come to the US to address the UN. Putin is putting himself needlessly at risk. Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 26 2015 2:34 utc | 76 here is another one of those white house press briefings from today.. press secretary josh earnest as ‘putinologist’! this guy comes across as a complete idiot..what a great image the usa is presenting and projecting with earnest buffoons like josh giving white press briefings.. Posted by: james | Sep 26 2015 2:36 utc | 77 oops — deleted “excommunicate him” but did not insert “crucify him.” Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 26 2015 2:50 utc | 78 @76 hoarse Posted by: jfl | Sep 26 2015 3:26 utc | 79 79 Posted by: NoReply | Sep 26 2015 5:52 utc | 80 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34368073 Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 26 2015 6:44 utc | 81 jfl @71 I s’pose the Yemen crimes against humanity are getting less attention than the earlier Israeli ones in Gaza cuz US is involved in Yemen. Also, Palestinians have so many champions that it wdn’t be possible to really shut the story up, whereas the Yemenis . . . . Posted by: Penelope | Sep 26 2015 9:41 utc | 83 @83 Posted by: jfl | Sep 26 2015 10:02 utc | 84 Thank you ben@43 for the link to Pope Francis’ address to Congress. Posted by: juliania | Sep 26 2015 12:40 utc | 86
Count me as one of the leftists enjoying Trump’s truth-telling. It’s pro-wrestling-style entertainment (well analyzed by Roland Barthes), sure, but Trump teaches the left how to effectively structure _our_ persuasive entertainment. If we dare, which we never do cuz it’s “too Jerry Springer,” “too NASCAR,” “too shit-kicker,” “too low CLASS.” Always revealing to consider why there never is a left version of Trump, in other words a leftist Presidential candidates who pulls better from the folks who never graduated from high school than from grad school grads, or better from the poorest 20% than she/he does from the CLASSiest 40%. Posted by: fairleft | Sep 26 2015 14:02 utc | 87 @87 fairleft Posted by: jfl | Sep 26 2015 14:54 utc | 88 jfl: Right! Posted by: fairleft | Sep 26 2015 15:10 utc | 89 @86 Juliana Posted by: jfl | Sep 26 2015 15:11 utc | 90 @89 fair Posted by: jfl | Sep 26 2015 15:15 utc | 91 james @77: Thanks for the excellent video showing the crayon level of analysis going on at Obama’s White House. And apparently the White House media — that elite group of journalists — loves Earnest and finds him very helpful. Posted by: fairleft | Sep 26 2015 15:38 utc | 92 California is in serious need of a “Box of Rain”: Posted by: Cynthia | Sep 26 2015 17:03 utc | 93 Israel is ‘projecting’ the ‘HATE’ onto the US – The US will soon be thrown under the bus ! Posted by: Jack Oliver | Sep 26 2015 21:03 utc | 94 I think Obama has been rather awful. But I don’t blame the paralysis of the “left” on him. I think that most everybody knew that the “19 cavemen with box cutter” 9/11 narrative was a joke, and the whole thing was done by the Mafia State, even the ones that convinced themselves otherwise. Posted by: blues | Sep 26 2015 22:12 utc | 95 @95, blues – Sounds like a very reasonable analysis. All opinion polls show that the majority of US citizens prefer policies that are considered “left” including single payer healthcare, reductions in the military budget, peaceful relations with other countries. @80 The difference between Russia and the USA/KSA is that Russia has rising living standards. Russia had oligarchy thrust upon it, and it is still less unequal than the USA or certainly KSA (which would be off the charts on the GINI scale). 44 Posted by: denk | Sep 27 2015 2:21 utc | 98 Posted by: guest77 | Sep 26, 2015 8:23:05 PM | 97 Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 27 2015 3:58 utc | 99 There’s a rumor in Oz that before one can join the Australian Liberal Party, a candidate must: Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 27 2015 4:16 utc | 100 |
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