Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 12, 2015

British Labour Elects Corbyn

The British Labour party just found back to light. Against resistance and condemnation from the Blairite Labour establishment, as well as the Grauniard and other pseudo-left media, the party members elected Jeremy Corbyn as their new leader. Corbyn received more votes than any Labour leader, including Blair, before him.

The veteran left winger got almost 60% of more than 400,000 votes cast, trouncing his rivals Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper and Liz Kendall.
...
Mr Corbyn was a 200-1 outsider when the three month contest began.

This victory is biggest party mandate for any political leader in Britain's political history.

In social economic policies Corbyn is a moderate left, neither a socialist nor a communist. In foreign policies he prefers (unlike Bernie Sanders) non-intervention instead of imperialistic and militant behavior. A genuine old flavor European social-democrat. We could certainly need more of those to kick out the neoliberal centrists that captured and domesticated the original social-democratic parties over the last decades.

It is amusing to observe the genuine horror Corbyn's election creates within the doom mongering Blairite establishment as well as with the Conservatives. We can also expect the U.S. establishment in both parties to follow this line:

Defence Secretary Michael Fallon, giving the Conservative Party's reaction, said: "Labour are now a serious risk to our nation's security, our economy's security and your family's security.

"The RED MENACE is coming!!!"

Congrats to Labour in Britain. May other European social-democratic parties follow your example.

Posted by b on September 12, 2015 at 15:59 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Good news indeed, but I worry he might share the fate of another non-interventionist Laborite, Robin Cook. Yeah, "they" are that evil and then some.

Posted by: Lysander | Sep 12 2015 16:30 utc | 1

I hope we can elect Bernie Sanders, here. And try to move the pendulum back.
~

Posted by: if | Sep 12 2015 16:35 utc | 2

False Flag event could strike fear in the hearts of the citizens to get them back in line with Conservative Security State Lock Down Juggernaut.

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 12 2015 16:55 utc | 4

kudos to those folks who are voting for some type of change from the interventionist agenda that is wrecking havoc on the planet - the new leader of the labour party in the uk - corbyn - in particular at this moment..

didn't know that about bernie sanders.. i guess that increases his chance of getting elected to the leading warmonger nation on the planet..

Posted by: james | Sep 12 2015 16:59 utc | 5

Just read an article by Catherine Shakdam. In it she says: "For well over a decade now the world has been force-fed American exceptionalism; taught to believe that America knows best what the world needs, how it needs to be organized and more importantly under whose leadership countries should be allowed to function." Poor lady ... doesn't she realize that force-fed American exceptionalism is at least as old as the Monroe doctrine? (In my opinion, it goes back to one of the reasons we (Americans) created the holocaust that destroyed native American cultures starting with every colony established by europeans.)
She goes on to say: "America has no lesson to give when it comes to democracy building and legitimacy … and it certainly cannot claim to any form of exceptionalism; not when it has so much blood on its hands and not when it has committed so very few funds to humanitarian aid. If anything Washington officials have mastered the art of terror-propping and radical-funding - from Ukraine to Syria, America has some of the world most despicable characters on its payroll … All for the greater good of course." Oh,and what about the list of American Interventions going back at least as far as our actions against the so-called pirates of the Barbary Coast which Wikipedia describes as "The first United States military land action overseas, executed by the U.S. Marines and Navy, was the Battle of Derne, Tripoli, in 1805. It formed part of an effort to destroy all of the Barbary pirates, to free the American slaves in captivity, and to put an end to piracy acts between these warring tribes on the part of the Barbary states, which were themselves member states of the Ottoman Empire. The opening line of the "Marine's Hymn" refers to this action: "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli...". This was the first time the U.S. Marine Corps took part in offensive actions outside of the United States..."

Don't you just love the line "American slaves in captivity?

Posted by: Rg an LG | Sep 12 2015 17:12 utc | 6

Hooo bloody ray!

Maybe a quote from the drunken sot Churchill is appropriate

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

and maybe an end to the Evil Thatcher's dictum "There is no alternative". (which begs the question 'why vote in a single party regime?')

Posted by: Yonatan | Sep 12 2015 17:21 utc | 7

>> In foreign policies he prefers (unlike Bernie Sanders) non-intervention instead of imperialistic and militant behavior.

Kindly elaborate on Bernie Sanders.

Posted by: not a name | Sep 12 2015 17:57 utc | 8

240,000 votes is a Mandate in a country of nearly 65 million people?

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 12 2015 18:07 utc | 9

The people have not yet learned that we live in a post-democratic world. The hope of the "Arab Spring", Syriza, Corbyn, Podemos and Sanders must rise and be crushed by the true power brokers, in order for that lesson to be learned. Is there a glimmer of hope that this time it could be different?

Posted by: mrd | Sep 12 2015 18:31 utc | 10

Wayoutwest @9

Thanks for displaying your ignorance of Britain's political mechanics.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 12 2015 18:32 utc | 11

K@11

I read that many who created this Mandate bought their vote for about 5 bucks US, interesting 'mechanics'

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 12 2015 18:52 utc | 12

" . . . Corbyn received more votes than any Labour leader, including Blair, before him. . ."


I am rejoicing at this news.

Pull up your socks, Bernie.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 12 2015 19:06 utc | 13

I read that many who created this Mandate bought their vote for about 5 bucks US, interesting 'mechanics'
He would have won even without them. 49.75% of full members. Though I agree, such voting members should not have been admitted. Not Corbyn who organised that, he merely benefitted.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 12 2015 19:12 utc | 14

re 9

240,000 votes is a Mandate in a country of nearly 65 million people?
It's a primary in American terms, not what you call a general election. Only members get to vote, along with the registered supporters you complain about in 12.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 12 2015 19:19 utc | 15

The Electorate: 554,272, of whom 422,664 voted. Corbyn 245,520 59.5%; the others had 19%, 17% and 4.5% respectively.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 12 2015 19:28 utc | 16

L@15

I don't think it compares with our primaries because it is a small elite paying group that picks the leader and I wonder if it reflects public opinion at all. I was surprised how small a group actually belongs to the Labour Party.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 12 2015 19:44 utc | 17

"The RED MENACE is coming!!!"

The Plutes in the Plutocrats Republic feel the same way, Jeremy Corbyn elected Britain's opposition Labour party leader


Content with lurking on the back benches in Parliament since becoming MP for the London constituency in Islington North 32 years ago, Corbyn was cascaded into the political limelight when he was persuaded at the last minute to enter the leadership race.

With odds of winning put initially by bookmakers at 200-1, Corbyn's participation was seen as a side-show, giving party members a wider choice in the election.

Labour changed its rules to allow people to become party supporters, paying three pounds (4.6 U.S. dollars) to earn a vote. The party membership rocketed, with hundreds of thousands joining, most of them backing Corbyn.

This year it was reported he had married a Mexican coffee importer, Laura Alvarez, 20 years younger than him. She became his third wife after two broken marriages.

He is teetotal and a supporter of the London premiership team, Arsenal, and is five times winner of Parliament's "beard of the year" contest.

An anti-monarchist, he once asked Blair to remove the Royal Family from Buckingham Palace.


Probably pissed, like the Tories and B.liars that they didn't jump at that 200:1 action when they had the chance.

I don't know anything about the guy, really. Like Syriza ... I'll wait and see.

Not with Bernie, though. As with Obama, I've seen enough of the kinder, gentler assassin. You cannot have change and stay just the same.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 12 2015 19:50 utc | 18

The only similarity I see between these two systems is that both produce political parasites who never have a real job in there whole career although Corbyn did work at a pig farm once.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 12 2015 19:55 utc | 19

There's going to be one helluva battle in the next few years. Sitting on top of the volcano doesn't mean that you've mastered the "deep state". Corbyn is quite like Egypt's Morsi in that sense. He doesn't come from the traditional political elite.

I'm somewhat optimistic. Corbyn is very reactive to problems, has little ego, never gets angry, is honest, and attracts people, though not a good speaker. Evidently the media have thrown all sorts of shit at him. He hasn't put a foot wrong so far; that's impressive.

The most important point for us here is that his presence is already having an effect on the neo-con Conservative government. Cameron and his crowd may be despised by Obama, but British support is still of a certain importance. They may have to row back somewhat. There's a distinctly less possibility that Britain will support an attack on Asad, which was otherwise in full development.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 12 2015 20:11 utc | 20

re 17

I don't think it compares with our primaries because it is a small elite paying group that picks the leader and I wonder if it reflects public opinion at all.
Of course it is not identical. Different countries have different political systems. 'Primary' was the nearest to what you have. It is not a general election, as you claimed at 9.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 12 2015 20:20 utc | 21

Any mention on what is actual policies are ?

Excited about his PR or just a fuzzy feeling that he might do some "good" in the future ?

Not deterred by fuzzy feelings with the failures of Syriza, Arab Spring and occupy Wall Street.

No need to trot out the threat to Corbyns life by the evil elite - which is real - as the first concern, when the real issue is what he actually will do.

He has a mandate to set policies in his party, for that moron wayoutwest.

Posted by: tom | Sep 12 2015 20:25 utc | 22

L@21

Sorry about your confusion but I was referencing the claim of Party mandate in the post and never referred to a general election. In fact from what I have read Corbyn doesn't even have a mandate among the Labour MPs.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 12 2015 20:35 utc | 23

re 23.

"In fact from what I have read Corbyn doesn't even have a mandate among the Labour MPs."

What has that got to do with anything? The electorate was as decided by the party, nothing to do with the winner. You started off by complaining that the electorate was too restricted, now you suggest that only the elected representatives should have their voice heard. Sounds pretty contradictory to me.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 12 2015 21:04 utc | 24


@PM #2

"I hope we can elect Bernie Sanders, here. And try to move the pendulum back."

I'm sorry your Bernie Sanders is not my hope. He's no different from Elizabeth Warren, Hillary Clinton or Obama - die-hard wars mongers. The pendulum will again swing back to more endless wars in support of the apartheid Israel..

Listen carefully "Israel have the right to live"....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xZqBXzYz4U

Below video link may not work in every browser. Search for "Bernie Sanders’ Stance On Israel Has Caused Some Tension For Him In The Past CHRIS TOGNOTTI "

http://www.bustle.com/articles/79871-bernie-sanders-stance-on-israel-has-caused-some-tension-for-him-in-the-past#!

"The summer 2014 Israeli war on Gaza, which so angered the Vermont town hall attendees, was endorsed by 79 senators (40 Democrats and 39 Republicans) via Resolution 498, which Sanders refused to cosponsor. The resolution was adopted unanimously without a vote, so a refusal to cosponsor is something like a vote against the proclamation. However, Senators are permitted the right to object (which Sanders did not) when unanimous support for a resolution is requested, making Sanders’ refusal to cosponsor the measure something like a whisper of disapproval"

“The bottom line is that Israel must have the right to exist in peace and security, just as the Palestinians must have the right to a homeland in which they and they alone control their political system and their economy."

https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/07/06/how-bernie-sanders-reacted-to-israels-attacks-on-gaza-and-his-position-on-israelpalestine/

When will we learn?

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 12 2015 21:17 utc | 25

@PM #2

Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Dr. Jill Stein, Paul Jay senior editor of TRNN, Norman Finkelstein, Robert Scheer, Lia Tarachansky, Phyllis Bennis, Medea Benjamin..

Which of the above with Jewish ancestry do you trust to end endless wars... and continue to supports apartheid Israel?

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 12 2015 21:39 utc | 26

re 22

Any mention on what is actual policies are ?
Too many policies have been accused, according to the media. According to them he's an old-fashioned Trotskyist, who can't move on from the 1980s, or the 1970s.

According to Corbyn himself, policy is open to party decision. he's been known in the past for opposition to Trident, that is the renewal of purchases of ICBMs furnished by the US, and under US electronic control, but paid for by Britain. Anti-NATO. And pro-palestinian. I can't remember all.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 12 2015 21:41 utc | 27

L@24

I best stop now, you seem to be more confused than ever.

It seems the only thing that Corbyn has so far gained by this selection is the ability to lead the yelling at the PM during PMQ's all while his back bench hisses at him.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 12 2015 21:50 utc | 28

re 28

"I best stop now, you seem to be more confused than ever."

Really? An American declares a Brit confused about the politics of his own country. Believable or what?

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 12 2015 22:04 utc | 29

Came to know of Jeremy Corbyn recently from searches and watching RT... he seems not to be another so call liberal or far left. For now unless someone proves otherwise I'll hitch onto Jeremy Corbyn's bandwagon.

From RT Corbyn may not survive before he could change UK directions since Margaret Thatcher.

I’ve posted two posts above regarding Bernie Sanders, please the time and watch the videos and learn more about Bernie Sanders since many readers questions Sanders positions.

I won’t touch Sanders with a 10 foots pole, either Dr. Jill Stein or no one and they are both Jewish.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 12 2015 22:05 utc | 30

re 30

" he seems not to be another so call liberal or far left. "

True.

"Corbyn may not survive before he could change UK directions since Margaret Thatcher."

He has already done so. The Neo-Cons in London are no longer free to do what they want. They are hedging back.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 12 2015 22:22 utc | 31

To Tom at 22:

I believe Corbyn has called for renationalising railways and keeping other essential industries and services (like National Health System, education and utilities) under government control. His policies basically call for a mixed economy of both public and private ownership and control as opposed to privatising everything and shrinking government down to invading other countries and bailing out large banks.

Posted by: Jen | Sep 12 2015 22:47 utc | 32

L@29

I was referring to general confusion or perhaps habitual confusion, this is a problem when people are separated by a common language.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 12 2015 22:52 utc | 33

@33 We know what you were insinuating WOW. That the people who elected Corbyn to lead the labour party are not representative of the British population. Obviously it takes a general election to settle that.

Posted by: dh | Sep 12 2015 23:11 utc | 34

re 33

"this is a problem when people are separated by a common language."

I think I understand the American language quite well, thank you very much. Apart from my time as visiting professor in one of the top five of US universities, I also once had an American wife, though it did not last long, and is thus perhaps evidence of my incomprehension of the American language, as defined by Sarah Palin.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 12 2015 23:29 utc | 35

@Rg an LG #6 - you may find this of interest
Ghosts of terror wars past? Crime, terror and America's first clash with the saracen hordes by r.t. naylor

Posted by: b real | Sep 12 2015 23:32 utc | 36

I wish Corbyn all the best, he'll need it. As far a Bernie Sanders is concerned, here's a new web-site. Explore.

http://feelthebern.org/

Posted by: ben | Sep 12 2015 23:34 utc | 37

And here also.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/04/bernie-sanderss-27-years-of-israel-answers/

Yes, I'm a Sanders supporter. He has a long record explore it. I'll post nothing more on Mr. Sanders.

Posted by: ben | Sep 12 2015 23:42 utc | 38

@ b: "Congrats to Labour in Britain. May other European social-democratic parties follow your example."

I agree. 100%!

Posted by: ben | Sep 12 2015 23:50 utc | 39

L@35

I see, the problems causing your confusion are over-education and having once been married to Sarah Palin. That's a nasty combination.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 13 2015 1:13 utc | 40

"In social economic policies Corbyn is a moderate left, neither a socialist nor a communist."

He's being slammed as a "hard leftist" by the reptile press. Might as well embrace his inner Red, because he's going to be accused of it whatever he does.

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 13 2015 1:18 utc | 41


@ben #38

Go ben go - Palestinian lives doesn't matter. The cycle continue endless wars.....

Israel have a right to live and continue to supports apartheid Israel

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 13 2015 1:39 utc | 42

I wish Corbyn well but he'll have some big hurdles to jump. Radical ideas may sit well with students and the unemployed but most people want stability and security. Another problem is the Scottish Nationalist Party. Labour lost a lot of seats to them. Pleasing the defectors in Scotland won't be easy and Unionists in Britain won't like it.

Posted by: dh | Sep 13 2015 1:51 utc | 43

DH, Corbyn's ideas are no more "radical" than Ike's in 1956 when he signed the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act.

What is radical is, that so many "experts" confuse common sense with communism.

Posted by: S Brennan | Sep 13 2015 3:00 utc | 44

@45 Good point. Corbyn is basically an old-fashioned socialist in the Keir Hardie mold. And that scares the pants off some people.

Posted by: dh | Sep 13 2015 3:12 utc | 45

@ Jack 43: And your solution is? Go Jack go.

Posted by: ben | Sep 13 2015 3:12 utc | 46

Politics is about choices, and perfect choices may exists, but more often then not, they do not. Bernie seems the best of possible candidates (those that can be nominated). As it is, he got a real chance because of anemic economy that creates anti-establishment mood and self-destruction of the principal opponent.

Concerning Corbyn, SNP is not necessarily a problem. Highly unlikely for Labor to get majority without any seats in Scotland, but his style is quite compatible with SNP that seemed to be to the left of Blairite, so coalition would not be hard.I

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 13 2015 3:19 utc | 47

PB @ 48: Voting in America today, this, is what bothers me.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=14545

Posted by: ben | Sep 13 2015 3:36 utc | 48

#43 jack smith says

"endless wars"

which wars jackoff smith

ww1 ww2 korea vietnam 6 day falklands iraq-iran gulf rwanda sudan syria lebanon libya congo south africa panama star

labour party lefty and biden bernie ......bbbbbbbbbbbbbb bloody bollocks old boy

Posted by: mcohen | Sep 13 2015 5:23 utc | 49

re 41. I see you're just down to personal abuse now, wow. Haven't you got anything better to say?

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 13 2015 11:23 utc | 50

@30 Jack Smith

' I won’t touch Sanders with a 10 foots pole, either Dr. Jill Stein or no one and they are both Jewish. '

I hadn't thought of that angle. I'd forgotten - if I ever knew - that Bernie is Jewish. But he is not diplaying any backbone on 'foreign policy' - so I must assume that when he gets 'the phone call' he'll cave to the Israeli takfiris in one NY minute.

I'm with you. I'd take a chance on Medea Benjamin, with Jill Stein I never got as far as Israel in my calculations ... Max Blumenthal I'd vote for ... I don't get as far as Israel with Bernie either ... silence on 'foreign policy' means the wars will continue. It's hard to imagine someone able to resist the Israeli takfiris getting any 'party' nomination in the US ... and their ain't no Jewish Donald Trumps ... instead they got Sheldon Adelson.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 13 2015 12:27 utc | 51

@46 dh

Thanks for the 'link' to Keir Hardie ... back in the days when men were men and so were half the women. I have no idea about Corbyn, time will tell. Time has tolled and told on Keir Hardie.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 13 2015 12:41 utc | 52

Go Corbyn,the biggest breath of fresh air in Britain in years.And they hate him,the Zionist enemy.
Jack Smith;Yes,Bernie gives me the willies also,but right now he is the only option,Trump went neocon with Cruz,and maybe it would be a Jew to reign in
Israels crazies,although I have no faith he will.
Saw story yesterday in the Indy,about Joshua Goldberg,from good ol Florida USA,and his impersonation of a jihadist.Remember the Garland TX shootings?Well,he set it up.The evil bastards.
Check it out before it disappears,it's still there,as I saw it nowhere else on the web yet,the Lying Times and Wapo,AW,Graun have nothing about it.

Posted by: dahoit | Sep 13 2015 13:28 utc | 54

Way out West at 17. Article, Independent, which details public support for some of Corbyn’s main proposals. Massive.

http://tinyurl.com/oxwl9oj

And there are plenty of other polls (goog) that show, in the general public, v. strong support (part of which is of course for ‘diversity’ in public discourse, and ‘return to roots’, etc.)

————-

The Corbyn phenomenon / election as leader / future is not to be compared with the lame wishy-washy Podemos (now being ‘normalised’) or hapless populist - traitorous according to some - Syriza.

….champers all round old chaps or yr fave tipple on me cheers

————-

At Jack Smith at 25. Were B. Sanders to be elected his foreign policy might even be worse than that of Obama. I saw those vids a while ago, and there is more out there. Why do left-leaning US voters think that left-leaning candidates in the US will be better than Republicans? Mystère… (Well not really, don’t explain.)

This article from The Nation:

AIPAC Spent Millions of Dollars to Defeat the Iran Deal. Instead, It May Have Destroyed Itself

is sorta interesting, for lack of a better description.

http://tinyurl.com/nnfkhd2

Posted by: Noirette | Sep 13 2015 13:29 utc | 55

Noirette says:

Why do left-leaning US voters think that left-leaning candidates in the US will be better than Republicans

good question, but having started WW1 & WW2, it seems only kosher that they really get WW3 off the ground, too.

Posted by: john | Sep 13 2015 14:21 utc | 56

@ Noirette 57 asks: "Why do left-leaning US voters think that left-leaning candidates in the US will be better than Republicans?"

Because they, as a consistent voting block, continue to screw the working classes. Republicans, in modern times, ALWAYS support the Mega-Wealthy to the detriment of the poor, and working classes.

Obviously, you don't follow US politics. :)

Posted by: ben | Sep 13 2015 14:27 utc | 57

UK Prime Minister: Jeremy Corbyn a 'National Security Threat'


Newly elected British opposition leader, Jeremy Corbyn, is a “threat to national security,” according to U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron.

So ... who's out of touch here? Is the UK so firmly in the hands of the tpry fascists that this makes sense to people?

Or is Cameron just totally out to lunch? And if so, why the hell is he PM? I suppose that Corbyn is here to close the barn door now that the horse has gone?

Posted by: jfl | Sep 13 2015 14:35 utc | 58

Good for Corbyn. There is still the question of whether the West, or the world, for that matter, can escape the suffocating, false reality of the elites. Living inside the illusion, surrounded by all the distorting mirrors, breathing and consuming the polluted environment that is slowly killing us. It is an uphill battle to reconstitute democracy, or even to strengthen the consciousness and awareness of communities.

I hope the people in the UK are at a breakthrough point, politically, and can rally against those who would either enslave us, or draw the world down further into fear and destruction.

Posted by: Copeland | Sep 13 2015 14:41 utc | 59

As the mid term elections in the US have already shown, the Democrats biggest problem is going to be just getting their people to vote.
Obama has done so much damage to the psyche of ordinary working people who thought he was sincere, they no longer believe that any liberal-sounding candidate will keep his word.

Many traditional liberals have given up on the process...which I think is a positive development since democracy in the US is basically a fraud.

Posted by: plantman | Sep 13 2015 15:17 utc | 60

Apparently, there wasn't a viable method of vote rigging which would have prevented the election of Corbyn up to this point. Vote rigging - flipping votes/black box voting/rigged ballots (don't forget the prearranged gerrymandered districts) - seems to be most effective with large numbers of votes in general elections.

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 13 2015 15:18 utc | 61

Jeremy Corbyn is one of Britain's most popular public figures among online voters – while PM David Cameron is the most hated
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 13 2015 16:02 utc | 62

ff @ 63: You got it, vote rigging is so much easier with e-voting, since corporations own the machines, and by law, can't be tested for efficacy because the soft-ware used, is private corporate info.

Question for non-US posters, How do most people vote in Europe and elsewhere?

Qualifier for my post at 59: Both Clinton and Obama campaigned as Dems/liberal/progressives, were actually, corporate empire backers. Can we, in the US, ever get a candidate who isn't? Probably not, but, in a two-party system, which sucks, is the reality we're stuck with.

Posted by: ben | Sep 13 2015 16:08 utc | 63

copeland @ 61: Yep!

Posted by: ben | Sep 13 2015 16:12 utc | 64

karlof1 @ 11 ==

Please, do tell us where what the actuality of British politics is? Thank you.

Posted by: jawbone | Sep 13 2015 17:45 utc | 65

Prior to the vote, the BBC had a panel discussion during which a Labor MP from what we in the US would call a "swing district" said that Corbyn represented "Old Labor" and would lead to the diminishment (as if there much further they could shrink down to…) of Labor's political strength.

Indeed, the new leader of the party will have a huge problem on his hands with these Corporatist (aka Blairite) Labor reps. The woman speaking as much as said there would be a schism in the party. So, will the Labor Lites go to…the Conservatives? Lib Dems

Posted by: jawbone | Sep 13 2015 18:24 utc | 66

"Defence Secretary Michael Fallon, giving the Conservative Party's reaction, said: "Labour are now a serious risk to our nation's security, our economy's security and your family's security."

didnt this Fallon fellow vote in favour of
1)invade Iraq---wars nos 1,2 and 3
2)Libya
3)Syria(unsuccessfuly first time out--must try harder next time

Posted by: chris m | Sep 13 2015 19:24 utc | 67

@Laguerre: "Corbyn is... not a good speaker." I watched a stump speech of his, from the Midlands someplace. He wasn't a bad speaker at all.

As for this kind of talk: "...Jeremy Corbyn, is a 'threat to national security,'..." and "Labour are now a serious risk to our nation's security, our economy's security and your family's security." well, this is fascism pure and simple. If Corbyn is these things, then logically, in today's world, he should be hit with a hellfire missile from a drone, or renditioned to a cage in Guantanamo Bay and waterboarded to find out what he knows. Surely, something like this is logical, just as when John Kennedy was called "a traitor" and "a moral degenerate" who was "selling the US out to Communism" and the logic of those comments played themselves out on the streets of downtown Dallas. No different than the logic of the murder spree that followed the "stab in the back" myth of 1930s Germany. It's Fascism 101, and if people in the UK aren't screaming their heads off about it and organizing real protection for the man, they're going to see history repeating itself.

@Laguerre: As for your battle with WoW, this is a man who fawns over ISIS's "brilliance", to expect common sense, logic, or honesty from him is really expecting too much. Having been trounced here so many times for his blood-thirsty, imperialist views (now trying to bash a legitimate democratic outburst in the UK), I suspect he only remains here because it he's too small of a man to say "I'm wrong".

Posted by: guest77 | Sep 13 2015 23:42 utc | 68

corbyn is pro immigrayion when it comes to refugees especially those from the middle east.population swaps to solve the i/p conflict could bring about a solution with europe playing a constructive role in relocating palestinian refugees in camps to europe.

Posted by: mcohen | Sep 13 2015 23:52 utc | 69

@71 More likely and more satisfyingly he could play a constructive role in relocating Palestinian refugees back to their homes in Palestine-Israel.

Posted by: guest77 | Sep 14 2015 0:06 utc | 70

@70 it's just a job. 'retired' CIA.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 14 2015 0:52 utc | 71

All this stuff about Bernie, I've already said my peace. Bernie won't upset AIPAC, not in a million years. He's no peacenik (he likes drones) and I've heard no solution for the pointless economic drain of the military industrial complex. His soundbite that the Saudis need to "pull their weight" in the Middle East, ignoring the gruesome effects of what they've already done, is as laughable as pushing the Devil to take a more active role in Hell.

That said, those failings, and they're fucking really bad, pale in comparison to the rest. The only thing you can say about him is that, amongst all the rotten apples, he has the least rot ... and with that being the best I can say of him, well, I can't say it. Obama, at least, was an honest con. He really fooled most people, said all the right things about war, Guantanamo, Iraq, even talked about union rights in Colombia. Bernie is, at least, telling you what you're going to get, problem being nothing he says on the Empire makes sense. And you can't have the Empire without this inequality. So to talk about one but not the other... its impossible IMHO. Unless he expects to exploit the rest of the world so hard that the economy comes back, like Germany seems to want to do with the EU. But who could want that? Who could think that is a long term solution? The rest of the world has had it with that.

He is at the very least more rational than the rest, less prone to the Clintonian, brown-nosing outbursts hoping to prove to warmongers that he is as rabid as the worst of them. No, I haven't heard Fred Kagan give him props, nor have I seen any photos of him hanging with Rupert Murdoch, smiles on their disgusting faces. What's been squeezed out of him in interviews, which is always very little, he's never talked for peace but he doesn't spew venom. I don't think Bernie will ever call Putin "Hitler". That's something. He appears sane, which is a rarity in a politician these days. But it isn't enough for me to go "Go Bernie!" on my friends or even on the internet.

That said, the real threat in all of this, and one that should not be ignored, is the prospect of President Biden, a beltway lizard so slippery and poisonous he defies description. A man who was deeply involved in the pre-PATRIOT ACT "Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995" six years before 9/11.

The man who might lead us to World War 3 out of his bizarre hatred for Russia, who has supported the toppling of the government of Ukraine and the Georgian attack on Russian peacekeepers, while at the same time he makes imperial policy personal by extending the corrupt tentacles of nepotism across the globe by placing his son at the head of fracking ventures in the Ukraine. That's very scary.

The man who was ready (and is certainly still ready) to split Iraq along its ethnic seams, leaving the heart of the Middle East with at least a century of conflict that would make India-Pakistan look like Sunday School.

The man known as "The Senator from MasterCard" for his close ties to the credit card industry, a man who could care less wether people pushed into penury by medical bills or for whatever reason are ever able to emerge out from under it, having supported the odious bankruptcy bill. Not to mention his fervent support for the bailout nightmare, and this "new normal" of economic stagnation by giving all to the banks...

This man should never, ever, ever be President. I'll take Bernie or Hillary any day over this snake.

Posted by: guest77 | Sep 14 2015 0:54 utc | 72

Raw Story piece on the MCM's freakout over Corbyn:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/americas-mainstream-media-freaks-out-after-socialist-wins-uk-labour-leadership/

Posted by: ben | Sep 14 2015 2:00 utc | 73


@guest77 #74

Excellent! Bernie Sanders, Biden, the Clintons, The Bushs, Elizabeth Warren, D Trump.....aren't they all the same? Endless wars continue, back and forth "the pendulum swings"

I'll vote for anyone who promised and do it - bring murder and criminal charges to anyone who have hands even remotely on the banking debacles and the deaths of millions starting with Clinton from 1993.

Anyone objects or the pendulum continues swing?

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 14 2015 6:48 utc | 74

@74 guest, @75 jack

I'm with you Jack, and I'm astounded that guest is ready to settle for the lessor of a fistful of evils. Change will never come about by settling. If so much weren't at stake ... maybe it wouldn't make any real difference ... but nah, a few moments reflection leads to the conclusion that that is exactly how we got here.

Write in a human-being. Do not vote for any of these automaton-freaks. Pitch your friends to do the same. Make new friends on the basis of shared peril and pitch them as well. Pitch strangers. Pitch your 'enemies'.

Forget everything called 'politics' in the USA, it's what we do instead of politics. Democracy is possible. It's missing the essential ingredient : just add people.*

It's not at all too early to talk about the next election ... if there's actually going to be one. The only way there can be one is if we eliminate all the 'party' candidates - skip pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey at the freak show - and choose from among ourselves ... and keep choosing until we reach consensus. I'd be happy if I never heard of any of these freaks again in my life.

* people:democracy::water:life on earth

Posted by: jfl | Sep 14 2015 9:46 utc | 75

mcohen @ 70 says:

population swaps to solve the i/p conflict could bring about a solution with europe playing a constructive role in relocating palestinian refugees in camps to europe

normally i wouldn't waste my time on you and your stupid, fucking premonitions and shitty poetry, but here we have a good example of your craven disingenuousness wherein your humanitarian fakery belies your deeply racist, apartheid ethos.

asshat

Posted by: john | Sep 14 2015 10:34 utc | 76

Posted by: guest77 | Sep 13, 2015 8:54:48 PM | 73

Strange that your comment compares Bernie to Biden in a thread about Corbyn. Perhaps because Bernie looks so much worse compared to Corbyn?!

You are simply advocating less-evil voting. The duopoly thrives on fear of the greater evil. If it is Bush vs. Biden one year from now, you will no doubt be back here imploring us to vote for Biden.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 14 2015 11:38 utc | 77

#77

dear "john" or should i say mondocunt

you are welcome

as to my premonitions......they are never wrong.

it only takes a few words to flush propagandists out

league of liars

Posted by: mcohen | Sep 14 2015 12:10 utc | 78

jfl

retired.....all of them

Posted by: mcohen | Sep 14 2015 12:14 utc | 79

@78 "You are simply advocating less-evil voting."

Please read again, I'm not advocating voting for anyone. I just compared the two.

Posted by: guest77 | Sep 14 2015 12:28 utc | 80


@mcohen #80

Do you mean murderers and liars walks free?

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 14 2015 12:32 utc | 81

#77 says shitty poetry

this one is for you ....dear john

your eyes are like dark liquid pools of desire

your lips red, inflamed with hot fire

your hands touch my skin

urgently build desire

i get out of the car and change the tire

Posted by: mcohen | Sep 14 2015 12:36 utc | 82


Whether you are Neoliberal or NeoCon; Bernie Sanders Or Donald Trump watch this...

Why Sanders & Trump Are More Alike Than You Think

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=14705

I'm Jessica Desvarieux in Baltimore. "Producerism. It's the idea that our society is split into two groups: takers and makers, or parasites and producers. Producerism argues that these divisions have nothing to do with class, but rather we're measured on how productive we are in terms of society...."

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 14 2015 13:47 utc | 83

@ 73 guest 77: Your take on Biden is absolutely spot on.

Posted by: ben | Sep 14 2015 14:01 utc | 84

Jack @84: Thanks for the link. TRNN always has some interesting goodies. They take no gov. or corporate money.

Sanders and Trump have some intersecting thoughts, but, given their personal histories, they are nothing alike.

Posted by: ben | Sep 14 2015 14:25 utc | 85


@ben #86

"they are nothing alike." Be smart and don't just trust any one progressive websites. Check out this website:

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/index.html

Not exactly true.... Israel have the right to defend itself and Hamas rains thousands of rockets on Israel, Israel overreacted . . .

The endless wars continue while tens of thousand innocents victims dies whether in Gaza, Ukraine, Yemen, Iraq, Afghan and god know wherever America's Exceptionalism asserts itself.

Bennie Sanders, Donald Trump, Joe Biden or Clinton more or less the same, maybe the lesser of 3 evils?

..... and the pendulum continue to swings.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 14 2015 15:46 utc | 86


@ben #86

If you missed Abby Martin in RT like I do, she is now in a weekly Telesur's show. "The Empire Files"

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/audio/The-Empire-Files---The-Rise-of-Historys-Biggest-Empire-20150913-0004.html

Hopefully you'll change your mind.... :-)

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 14 2015 15:55 utc | 87

Mildly of topic but germane to Neolib Lesser Evil cretinism.

At about 5-30am (Oz EST) Sept 14, one of the news headlines concerned a staffer from Deloitte's announcing his summary of the recommendations in a Tax Reform report his firm had prepared for the Abbott govt. The report says that the Oz govt (which has been grossly mismanaging the economy and its own Budget) can raise up to $30 billion in additional revenue - depending which version of an increased Goods & Services Tax it adopts (the GST is currently 10% with fresh/unprocessed food, and a few inconsequentials, exempted). The Lesser Evil-ist choice being
1. Levy GST on Everything and increase it to 12.5%.
2. Levy GST on Everything, increase it to 15%, and nominate a class of Financially-challenged People as conditionally exempt.

(GST is regarded as a Regressive tax because, like all flat taxes. it places a bigger burden on poor people than on wealthy people. And wealthy people will NEVER approve of any tax regime which doesn't hurt poor people more than it hurts them.)

This "Tax Reform" agenda coulda/woulda been hotly debated BUT by Midday Abbott's (neo)-Liberal Cretins had hijacked the "news" by dreaming up a (utterly meaningless) Leadership Spill which, by 10pm, had resulted in Abbott being replaced as PM by Malcolm Turnbull - Abbott's Communications Minister, an immensely wealthy ex-lawyer and ex-Merchant Banker. Mr Turnbull's political achievements to date are

1. Getting himself narrowly elected as Opposition Leader and disappointing his sponsors within the Party so badly that he was asked to step down.
2. As Comms Minister, declaring the the previous Govt's National Broadband Network "too costly and impractical", down-scaling it, and thereby DOUBLING the projected cost.
3. He has a well-deserved reputation for being his own Mini-Me (ref Austin Powers).

So this was a victory of one competing Lesser Evilism over another. And a meaningless leadership spill was deemed to be Less Evil (for the Liberals) than a heated debate about the validity of either version of the Inherently Evil GST. It's a non-change but it will clog the "news" headlines with drivel for long enough for discussion of the GST solution to "Tax Reform" to slide off the agenda.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 14 2015 16:25 utc | 88


@Hoarsewhisperer #89

Follow up latest Downunder News

Liberal leadership spill: Malcolm Turnbull to become prime minister after toppling Tony Abbott

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-14/malcolm-turnbull-wins-liberal-leadership-ballot-over-tony-abbott/6775464

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 14 2015 16:39 utc | 89

@90 Turnbull looks like more of a front-stabber than a shirt-fronter.

Posted by: dh | Sep 14 2015 17:21 utc | 90

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 14, 2015 12:39:39 PM | 90

As I attempted(?) to explain, it was a DESPERATE pantomime. It really doesn't matter which Liberal Party Leading Light becomes their Glorious Leader, they're all part of the wholly-owned subsidiary of the 1% known as the Liberal Party. Turnbull is infinitely more polite and less offensively stupid and abrasive than Abbott BUT he is already backing away from more Humane insinuations he was (almost) famous for and will soon be lying, and breaking (non-core) promises as diligently as Abbott was famous for doing.

The only bright note in your comment was abc.net.au...
Abbott's Liberals came to power on a promise of NOT cutting the ABC (and SBS) budget. One of his first acts of infamy was to cut half a Billion dollars out of their combined budget (over a period of circa 4 years).
Now, the Govt Broadcaster will ensure that every sin committed by the "Privatise Everything" Libs will be broadcast into every home in Oz, every time one is uncovered.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 14 2015 17:38 utc | 91

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/


#82 jack

not only walk free but commit the same crimes again..........including terrorists released in prisioner swaps


Posted by: mcohen | Sep 14 2015 22:38 utc | 92

ironic that tony should go just as corbyn should come......alignment of the stars coming up

Posted by: mcohen | Sep 14 2015 22:41 utc | 93

#95

James ....we only just met,how would you know what concerns me.....trolley polly

Posted by: mcohen | Sep 15 2015 2:50 utc | 94

mcohen posts his Zionist propaganda on MondoWeiss where it is debunked by the highly informed regulars. Perhaps he's decided to try to find a more accepting audience.

Posted by: dynkyd | Sep 15 2015 7:17 utc | 95

Posted by: dymkyd | Sep 15, 2015 3:17:14 AM | 97 says.....debunked

dear trolley polly

I post a article from.....https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/ about hamas and you post some asshat about mondoweiss debunk by regulars....I call them palhasbies...

I never wrote the article by amnesty I merely linked to it at #93

hey asshat troll ....attacking the messenger only works on mondoweiss....here is my last post

----------------------------------------------------------
mcohen.
September 14, 2015, 6:57 pm

annie says

“we all know great ideas come in altered states of mind”

beautifully put.legends retain elements of truths that shine like stars in a dark sky.more important they add to one,s accumulation of positive knowledge, to be passed on from generation to generation.threads woven in the tapestry of life

--------------------------------------------------------------
this is the reply from the ...highly informed whatever

Mooser September 14, 2015, 7:18 pm .“threads woven in the tapestry of life” Yeah, thank you, Carole King. I don’t think Annie is saying that legends should be used as a basis for a colonial project. Or used to manipulate children into hate, especially by a concerted effort from adults which replaces ignorance with legends instead of facts. -

-------------------

see what I mean...carefully refined,ever so gentle,highly intellectual....."concerted effort from adults which replaces ignorance with legends instead of facts"

dear dindu dinkid ...you must be kidding right....Zionist propa what

check it out for yourself

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/09/storyteller-abulhawas-displacement

Posted by: mcohen | Sep 15 2015 8:23 utc | 96

Posted by: mcohen | Sep 14, 2015 6:38:46 PM | 93

Amnesty? Surely you jest?
Amnesty is known for the cherry-picked "controversies" it sheds crocodile tears over AND for pretending not to notice the ones its 'donors' have told it to ignore.

For example, Amnesty has been told to ignore the rather obvious fact that HAMAS would not exist if Palestine hadn't been occupied by violent, murderous, thieving Jews who have been trying to ethnically cleanse Palestine for more than 70 years.
And ignored it they have.
So what's your excuse?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 15 2015 15:22 utc | 97

Hoarse

Are you the H in HAMAS

Posted by: mcohen | Sep 15 2015 21:01 utc | 98

mcohen's post.. take them for what they are - zionist propaganda.. likely paid for too..

Posted by: james | Sep 15 2015 21:22 utc | 99

Hoarse
Are you the H in HAMAS
Posted by: mcohen | Sep 15, 2015 5:01:08 PM | 99

No. Nor am I the 'mcohen' who can't control its Inner Basil Fawlty.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 16 2015 2:48 utc | 100

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