Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 19, 2015

Yemen: U.S. Doubles Down, Saudi-UAE Invasion Stuck

The U.S./Saudi/UAE attack on Yemen continues. The air attacks on various Yemeni cities are hitting more and more civilians and few fighters. The U.S. doubled the number its "advisers" that select targets for the Saudi airforce to bomb. Recent targets include a group of 40 fighters allied with the Saudis. Another target was the port of Hodeida, the last access point through which aid could be transported into the norther part of Yemen. The four harbor cranes and the piers were destroyed. Today the airport of the capital Sanaa was again bombed and the terminal building set on fire. One wonders why as the Yemeni airspace is under complete control of the U.S. and Saudi airforces. Smaller cities from which little reporting is coming through also get hit. Julien Harneis, a UNICEF staff member in Sanaa, tweeted today:

Yesterday in Amran an airstrike killed 20 & injured 30 educators and children who were preparing exams for students who had missed the year

Over 3600 schools in Yemen are closed down and some kids get recruited by the various militia.


The ground attack into the cauldron of Yemen by UAE and Saudi forces makes little progress. Aden and the al-Anad Air Base were cleared from Houthi forces in a well equipped campaign by the invading UAE forces and some local proxies. But where the Houthi forces left AlQaeda and local gangs of southern separatists have taken over. Further UAE attacks northward against Taizz and Ibb got stuck. Under pressure the Houthis forces melted away only to come back in the rear of the advancing UAE forces. At least three UAE vehicles were hit and destroyed.

There is no news available of the Saudi move from the north towards Marib. These forces may have been pulled back after the Houthis turned the table and invaded Saudi Arabia. They claim to have taken the Saudi Shirfa military base and are now broadcasting their successes on TV from a high point above the Saudi city of Najran.

The "young general" in Riyadh must be furious over such a disgrace. But how can he respond? There is nothing left to destroy in Yemen from the air, the ground troops are not successful and he burned all bridges with the UN so there is no one left to mediate. Washington, with zero regard to Yemeni casualties, seems to be willing to give him more rope with which, the White House may hope, he will hang himself.

Posted by b on August 19, 2015 at 18:08 UTC | Permalink


i don't get the usa's open support for this, other then it's ongoing determination to create murder and mayhem in the mid east.. saudi arabia on the other hand have to be the most backward nation on the planet, so i understand where they are coming from..

Posted by: james | Aug 19 2015 18:49 utc | 1

@1 From a sky high view of the Yemen situation, the U.S. is a declining imperial power with local warlords and an emperor focused on his tomb or library rather than being emperor. Only the President can redirect major resources, so every actor grabs what they can in hopes of forcing the President or next President to the game.

I don't think it's a clear policy from the U.S. perspective as much as keeping our local thugs happy without ruining the emperor's day. Do you think Obama missed a back nine to deal with this? No, he's as decadent in an American fashion as countless other leaders. Bad actors know the President is neither interested in their pet project or cleaning house which means they are safe as long as they don't embarrass Obama which is difficult, the man has a Cadre of cultists and no shame.

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Aug 19 2015 19:09 utc | 2

The after bombing picture show some rubble but the four cranes and nearby containers seem to be undamaged.

The Ansar Allah forces did carry out a successful ambush of Loyalist forces but calling it a cauldron is a bit of wishful thinking.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 19 2015 19:18 utc | 3

@1 Yemen's only value to the US has to do with control of a strategic waterway.

Posted by: dh | Aug 19 2015 19:18 utc | 4

The US is increasing its daily drone missions by 50% to 90/day. The Airforce is maxed out so the Army will increase their involvement and private contractors will also be used. Finally we have a jobs program from the government.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 19 2015 19:39 utc | 5

Socking that 3600 schools have closed down in Yemen.

They know better then supportive western genocide propagandists in the mass media, that children and their schools are targets for the US's Saudi killers. Why bomb children one by one when you can bomb children when they're all at school at once. You can save ammunition that way.... Atrocious.

If the Israeli terrorists can bomb shelters and schools with impunity, the Saudis must think the same. Both backed by the evil US Empire.

Posted by: tom | Aug 19 2015 19:43 utc | 6

As expected the pig felching saudi shit beetles fold completely when playing on a level playing field. One day they'll fuck up and take on an enemy truly capable of fighting back and will get utterly wiped like the stale dog turds they are.

Posted by: Some Guy | Aug 19 2015 19:45 utc | 7

@1 james

' it's [US'] ongoing determination to create murder and mayhem in the mid east.. '

Just like its ongoing determination to create murder and mayhem in the Ukraine, in Libya, in Syria, in Iraq ...

The Number One terrorist nation on earth, tobogganing toward catastrophe with closed eyes toward an economic and military catastrophe ... in a state of perplexity bordering on a paralysis of will

Capitalist breakdown intensifies the drive of imperialism to war. Under conditions of glutted markets and falling demand, the capitalists of each nation seek to expand their share at the expense of their rivals, intensifying conflicts that ultimately are settled by means of military violence. At the same time, the ruling classes seek to divert mounting social tensions at home by deflecting them outward on the basis of national chauvinism and militarism.

The crisis cannot be resolved, except on the basis of barbarism and war, within the framework of capitalism. The global economy, more interconnected than ever before in history, cannot be rationally developed within the framework of rival nation states and private ownership of the means of production.

In 1938, in the midst of the last Great Depression and on the eve of World War II, Leon Trotsky, in the opening passages of the founding document of the Fourth International, the Transitional Program, wrote that the bourgeoisie, seeing no way out of its crisis, “toboggans with closed eyes toward an economic and military catastrophe.” He spoke of capitalism’s traditional parties being “in a state of perplexity bordering on a paralysis of will.”

Posted by: jfl | Aug 19 2015 20:31 utc | 8

In Syria, Saudi Arabia and Qatar have not send any troops to face ISIS and Al Qaeda, they have just used well paid local mercenaries. In Yemen, as the Houthis are withdrawing the Saudi and UAE troops will soon have to face Al Qaeda on the ground. Then we will see how great these fighters are.
The USA seems more than glad to have Saudi and UAE troops fighting Al Qaeda. They do not have to loose any american.

For these countries it is bound to be a quagmire.
Yemen may become Saudi Arabia's Vietnam and this war risks to trigger the fall of the House of the Saud.

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 19 2015 21:26 utc | 9

why US sponsored chaos in the Middle East?


"It is obvious that the above military assumptions, and the whole plan too, depend also on the Arabs continuing to be even more divided than they are now, and on the lack of any truly progressive mass movement among them. It may be that those two conditions will be removed only when the plan will be well advanced, with consequences which can not be foreseen."

divide and conquer

Posted by: dave | Aug 19 2015 22:37 utc | 10

jfl @ 8: "The Number One terrorist nation on earth."

said over and over, and more true, day by day. That would be of course, the USA. Ain't it great to be # 1?

Posted by: ben | Aug 19 2015 22:37 utc | 11

For USA the calculation is straightforward: GCC pays cash for weapons, and unlike supplies to rebels that can be "Made in Ukraine" etc, a bombing campaign has to be supplied from USA, UK etc. However, Kornet missiles made tanks rather obsolete (the correct type delivers one-two punch and goes through reactive armor), and of course they are also good at stopping any kind of vehicles. That said, Yemen is under siege and Huthis and the army have to conserve ammunition. I think that cauldron is out of the question, but if they stall GCC expedition, there can be some backstabbing in the south. After all, southern separatists do not want to bleed to conquer Saana.

However, one has to wonder about the cash balance of the Kingdom. Prop a puppet here, puppet there, pay for bombing campaign AND sell oil at about 40 dollars per barrel, and support the domestic livestyle, at some point it can be too much. There is some unseemly squabble with Kuwait over a shared oil field. Either Kuwait did not join GCC in Yemen expedition, or the Kingdom does not mind stopping production at the share oilfield, world prices of oil being low already.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 20 2015 0:47 utc | 12

I have also been wondering about Saudi spending on the various conflicts you mentioned. There is also the fact that the Saudis have recently signed lucrative arms contracts with US MIC arms producers (somewhere in the neighbourhood of $60 billion or more) as well as military procurements with France and Russia! Given that the Saudis are in an oil price (slashing) war with global competitors, and revenues are certain to suffer, this is all in the context of a global recession which is yet to bottom out, depressing oil revenues much further. I can’t help but wonder if this is part of a US strategy to humble and incrementally destroy the Saudi regime, which by all measures is a foreign relations embarrassment to the US. Perhaps the Iran nuclear deal is part of the US strategy to finally be rid of the Saudis. After all, rapprochement with the Iranians was always Washington’s trump card that could be played in the event of a break in diplomatic ties with the Saudi regime.
Can’t help but wonder how AQAP factors into this; bearing in mind their long and well established CIA ties. And then there are all those US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia. Hmmm!

Posted by: bjmaclac | Aug 20 2015 4:44 utc | 13

@Virgile | 9

The USA seems more than glad to have Saudi and UAE troops fighting Al Qaeda.

Why would Saudi and UAE fight against their own proxy terrorists? Actually they are helping them all they can - money, arms, attacking Al Qaedas enemies, etc.

US isnt really fighting Al Qaeda either, other than cosmetic bombing if they overreach into Kurds areas. US is using Al Qaeda to attack its enemies - Syria, intransigent Iraq, Hezbollah, Iran, China, Russia, etc.

Posted by: Harry | Aug 20 2015 9:16 utc | 14


Rep. Ed Royce (R-CA)64%, Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, responded to news that a side deal between Iran and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) will allow Iran to use its own experts, instead of international inspectors, to test potential nuclear sites. Royce described the move as a “dangerous farce”.

Speaking of 'dangerous farce', in 2008, SecWar Panetta took over from SecWar Rumsfeld with the same promise Rumsfeld made on 9/10: to audit the Pentagon. Panetta got no farther than Rumsfeld, in the end, cutting a side deal with the Defense auditors to ... wait for it ... audit themselves~! Of course, their glowing report a year or so later, pretending they had 'made first efforts to prepare the Pentagon to take on the task of readying for the effort to organize the push to move forward with the effort to begin a new approach, to an audit.'

I'm not making that up. That's ThinkSpeak at the Pentagonal Church of Shaytan, so densely malevolent that SecWar Hagel took one look and bugged out, once he saw the damage Petraeus wrought. ONE TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ... poof~! Yemenis? It don't matter. Donbass? Libya? Aleppo? Anbar? Kandahar? "On the whole, I think it was worth it," or as the great Quaking Embolism in Waiting herself put it, 'At this point, really, what difference does it make?'
She'll be blacked-out in the potted palms with a martooni in hand when the 3AM call comes.

Freedom isn't Free! Hope is Chains! Bmobs Bursting in Air~!

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 20 2015 12:16 utc | 15

thanks for all the response to my question regarding what usa gets from this.. i agree with most of the conclusions you've all shared too.

i still maintain the usa likes having all these proxy wars using mercenary armies whether they be al qaeda, isis - or whatever the latest name of the mercenary army is.. and they like to show their support for the murderous and soul-less regime running saudi arabia at present as well as it helps to keep the two way street between oil and military gear open.. world trade seems to have come down to this.. so much for just buying plastic products from walmart.. world trade has to be about something bigger.. energy needs or security needs seems to be long as the bankers can profit from all the traffic, i guess wall st is happy.. just turn the other way when innocent people are being regularly murdered as it isn't happening in your own backyard.. and you don't relate to the planet being your own backyard either...

Posted by: james | Aug 20 2015 16:42 utc | 16

• Rebels In Ukraine’s Donetsk Plan Referendum On Joining Russia (Xinhua)

Leaders of the self-proclaimed “Donetsk People’s Republic” are planning to hold a referendum on seceding from Ukraine and joining Russia, the Donetsk-based Ostrov news agency reported Wednesday. The referendum is scheduled to be held in two to four weeks after the Oct. 18 local elections, said the news agency. The ballot papers for the referendum designed in the colors of the Russian flag have already been printed, it said. Neither the rebel leadership nor the Ukrainian authorities have commented on the report yet.

In July, leaders of pro-independence insurgents in Donetsk region said they would hold local elections on Oct. 18 without Kiev’s supervision as they believed that the Ukrainian government has not fulfilled its obligations under the Minsk peace agreement. Last week, violence in eastern Ukraine has sharply escalated after several weeks of relative calmness. On Sunday night, at least 11 people, including nine civilians, were reportedly killed in Donetsk region, marking the worst casualties in the conflict since early June.

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 20 2015 18:43 utc | 17


I agree with you. I am convinced that the USA is trying to humble and weaken Saudi Arabia by encouraging the kingdom to get involved more deeply in the Yemen quagmire.
The USA is offering its support in advising and intelligence giving to the Saudis the illusion that the USA is still a 'loyal' friend even after the Iran deal has been done.
The more re-assured by the USA the more the Saudi feel that they are strong and can escalate the war.
The silence of the Russian about the Saudi adventure in Yemen is significant. The Russian are as happy as the USA to see Saudi Arabia engaged in an endless war, that would gradually become unpopular within the kingdom and on the international media. It is a time bomb and the USA and Russia are waiting to see it explode. Saudi Arabia will come out broken economically and politically and the Saudi 'charities' will not have money anymore to fund Al Qaeda and other islamist terrorist groups.

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 20 2015 19:09 utc | 18


I thought that the People's Republics had already voted to be annexed by Russia not long after Crimea made their move. The Russian legislation to annex them was buried by Putin soon after it was introduced to the Russian government unlike the Crimea bill which passed quickly.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 20 2015 19:11 utc | 19

james @ 16 says:

.. just turn the other way when innocent people are being regularly murdered as it isn't happening in your own backyard..

or even turn the other way when innocent children are being raped and murdered IN your own backyard...

Posted by: john | Aug 20 2015 20:06 utc | 20

@WOW #19

"The Russian legislation to annex them was buried by Putin soon after it was introduced to the Russian government unlike the Crimea bill which passed quickly"

quite impossible for Putin to bury non-existent proposals; quite unlike Crimea, one should say:

Referendums on the status of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, parts of Ukraine that together make up the Donbass region, took place on 11 May 2014 in many towns under the control of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics. [...]

The chairman of the Republic, Denis Pushilin, said that the ballots were printed in both Russian and Ukrainian, and ask one question: "Do you support the declaration of state independence of the Donetsk People's Republic?" The Russian word used, самостоятельность, (samostoyatel'nost) (literally "standing by oneself"), can be translated as either full independence or broad autonomy, which left voters confused about what their ballot actually meant. One polling station manager interviewed by VICE News insisted the vote had nothing to do with secession.

Posted by: claudio | Aug 20 2015 21:05 utc | 21

Do you remember september the 15

Posted by: mcohen | Aug 20 2015 21:13 utc | 22

This is well worth a read.

So Turkey’s right wing pundits are saying that Aleppo, (which is in N Syria) is “Turkey’s 82nd province”?

Yep, they sure are, which means the path has been cleared for a major invasion followed by a land-grab in northern Syria (including Aleppo) using the justification of establishing a “safety zone”. The assumption is that the US will provide air cover for this blatant act of aggression, and that the UN will sweep the whole matter under the rug...

Posted by: chuckvw | Aug 20 2015 22:12 utc | 23

james @ 16: "just turn the other way when innocent people are being regularly murdered as it isn't happening in your own backyard.. "

Unless of course, you happen to be poor, or black or brown.

Posted by: ben | Aug 20 2015 22:44 utc | 24

cvw @ 23: Thanks for the link.

Posted by: ben | Aug 20 2015 23:01 utc | 25


Putin/Russia has never passed the bill that was introduced to recognize the People's Republics the necessary first step to an accession treaty that they quickly did for Crimea.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 20 2015 23:36 utc | 26

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 20, 2015 3:09:03 PM | 18: The silence of the Russian about the Saudi adventure in Yemen is significant.

What is significant is what our media does not report. While in Australia you could read this:

Russia attacks UN Security Council on failure to back ceasefire

The UN Security Council was unable to agree on a Russian-drafted statement demanding an immediate ceasefire or at least humanitarian pauses in the fighting in Yemen.

Russian ambassador Vitaly Churkin criticised the 15-member council, saying fellow envoys showed "amazing indecision" in the face of the worsening humanitarian crisis in Yemen.

"If you cannot agree to a motherhood-and-apple-pie statement, what can you agree on? I don't understand," Mr Churkin told reporters following the behind-closed-door meeting.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 21 2015 0:07 utc | 27

The Russians as usual call for dialog but they know very well that the USA is too eager now to woo the Saudis to allow any compromise.
The USA is discreetly telling the Saudis to stop while they know that Saudi Arabia's arrogance and fear of another humiliation will make them inflexible.
Soon the Saudi and UAE soldiers will be face to face with Al Qaeda. That's what the USA has always wanted and never got, Arab Sunni troops on the ground fighting Al Qaeda. It will be the moment of truth for Saudi Arabia and the UAE.
Saudi Arabia may come out so weaken that it may loose its relevance in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, leaving Iran as the most influential country in the region to the despair of Israel.

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 21 2015 1:14 utc | 28

This has the look of a false flag.

An Israeli aircraft has fired missiles at a building in Syria's Golan Heights in response to a rocket strike on an Israeli village, according to reports.

Syrian state TV said "several missiles" had hit a transport centre and public building in the Height's Quneitra area.

Earlier rockets landed near a village in northern Israel. There are no reports of injuries in either attack.

Israeli officials blamed the rocket strike on the Palestinian group Islamic Jihad, which denied the claim.

A statement released by the Israeli military said the rockets that hit the upper Galilee region "were launched from the Syrian Golan Heights... by Islamic Jihad, sponsored by Iran".

The statement went on to say that Israel "holds the Syrian government responsible for attacks emanating from Syria".

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 21 2015 5:10 utc | 29

I am convinced that the USA is trying to humble and weaken Saudi Arabia by encouraging the kingdom to get involved more deeply in the Yemen quagmire.

Not true, the US deep state, especially the CIA, require Saudi support for the US jihadis/proxy fighters to destabilize countries who have independent foreign or domestic policies. Over at The Nation, Juan Cole, has an article up, "The US Saudi Coalition Are Winning in Yemen".

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 21 2015 5:24 utc | 30
But will a devastated country destabilize the region?

The Saudi coalition is closing in on the rebel Houthi movement, moving steadily up from the southern port of Aden, where 2,800 Saudi and United Arab Emirates troops are alleged to have landed along with soldiers loyal to President Abdu Rabbu Mansour Hadi, in early August. These forces not only took Aden back from the Houthis, but have conquered five southern provinces and are now besieging the country’s third-largest city, Taiz. The months of heavy Saudi and coalition airstrikes, some of them appearing to target civilians, and of heavy fighting between Hadi forces and the Houthis, have left a swath of destruction across the already desperate country that bodes ill for the future of the region.

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 21 2015 5:37 utc | 31


Comparing the "peace plans" for Syria of Washington, Ankara and Tehran, as laid-out in the Counterpunch article, it appears that DC doesn't really have a plan of its own. It will either continue down the neo-ottoman/sunni islamist road to hell, or it will revert to the solution favored by Iran, which has been sooo successful in Iraq. What is missing is a non-sectarian, secular peace that comports with the needs of the Syrian Arab Republic and its people. I hope Russia will support such a plan, or maybe the GCC monarchies will remember that Damascus, not Riyadh, is the cultural and political capital of Arabia...before it is too late for all of them.

Posted by: Ibrahimyazeji | Aug 21 2015 17:06 utc | 32
At least 65 civilians have reportedly been killed in air strikes by a Saudi-led coalition on the Yemeni city of Taiz.

More than half of the dead were women and children, according to aid agency Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF).

Taiz has been the scene of intense clashes between Houthi rebels and pro-government forces, supported by Saudi Arabia and its allies.

The coalition began targeting the Houthis in March.

It wants to defeat the rebel group, which controls much of Yemen, and restore the government of exiled President Abdrabbo Mansour Hadi.

The conflict has killed about 4,000 people so far, nearly half of them civilians, according to the United Nations.

Seventeen of those who lost their lives in air strikes late on Thursday were members of the same family, MSF said.

A number of civilians also died in rebel shelling in Taiz.

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 21 2015 22:09 utc | 33

This is a link to a Lebanese daily that used to be reliably anti-Hezbollah and pro-American, and implicitly pro-Saudi. However, lately I see more reports based on the material from Hezbollah spokesmen. It seems that Saudi policy in Lebanon becomes a huge flop. In any case, Lebanese business reporters should have good idea about Saudi economy for a number of reasons, so predictions that KSA budget deficit can be astounding are credible. Of course, the kingdom has huge financial reserves, but running "two and half war" may rise concerns among the public (who cares) and among the fellow princes (if finances are dire, billion dollar allowances can be cut, and whatever your household budget is, slashing it by 50% or more can hurt).

One thing is that Lebanon is broke and the Army has somewhat pitiful arms. In particular, it is clearly not able to remove taqfiris from desolate areas in Anti-Lebanon mountains (often called Qalamoun, and without backing by Hezbollah Lebanon could be is serious security trouble. The West and Saudis claim that Hezbollah IS the security trouble but they do not give weapons to the Army, which became quite Hezbollah-friendly. To break the "vicious circle" Saudis figured quite ingenious plan: to give two billion dollars for weapons, to be administered by their agent, former prime minister and their current stooge, Hariri. There was much rejoicing in pro-western/pro-Saudi circles, but it was a while ago and arms did not materialize, there was one deal with France to supply arms and it was basically cancelled as the Saudis refused to pay. So much for rebuilding Hariri as a head of patronage machine that would include the Lebanese military and subsequent marginalizing of Hezbollah in Lebanese politics. Hard to see why KSA got cold feet other than just being overwhelmed with bills coming from everywhere. Al-Sisi has to be propped, or he would be even more surly than he is now, that takes about ten billions per year. Stooges in Syria have to be propped, which requires propping Jordan and bribing of the Turks, with markups like that it is another bunch of billions. Civil war in Libya requires some attention too. Pakistan needs to be cultivated, as well as Northern Sudan (the latest is a much needed decoration of the Anti-Huthi coalition). Lastly, Yemen is a country with a larger population than Syria, while the terrain and the temperaments of the population are disconcertingly similar to Afghanistan, not a kind of place to have nice, short, inexpensive and victorious wars.

One solution could be to buy weapons with depreciated rubbles rather than with strong dollars, but for obvious political reasons, the kingdom will save only a few billions in that ways.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 22 2015 0:36 utc | 34

Virgile @28: That is so backwards. Saudi is ISIS/Al Qaeda. They definitely will NOT fight them. Fight alongside them, sure. Let them take over whatever Saudi/UAE armed forces conquer. Of course, that's what they're already doing.

As for the larger picture, there is nothing special or Machiavellian here. The new Saudi ruler is stupid and an anti-Shia lunatic. 'Nuff said about him. The US doesn't have a problem with the fool invading and partially or completely destroying popular/populist forces that are not belligerent towards but, still, are also not puppets of the US global empire. Either Saudi idiot loses and is hit in the face (seems he craves this lesson) with how weak and dependent he is on the US, or he wins and destroys popular forces and creates another smoldering showpiece for the consequences of not being a puppet of the global overlord. Good for ally Al Qaeda too, and, more important, for arms sales by the US, UK and France. As someone above said, Obama didn't miss a minute on the golf course over this.

Posted by: fairleft | Aug 22 2015 6:30 utc | 35

chuckvw @23: I predicted here a week or two ago something like this land grab, but they won't take Aleppo (too hard, too complicated), just the territory north of it. And populate it with happy Turkmen!

Posted by: fairleft | Aug 22 2015 6:39 utc | 36

Yemen officials say al-Qaida seizes key areas of Aden
Associated Press By AHMED AL-HAJ
1 hour ago
Map locates Aden, Yemen; 1c x 2 inches; 46.5 mm x 50 mm;

SANAA, Yemen (AP) — Al-Qaida militants have seized control of key areas in and around Yemen's port city of Aden, high-ranking security officials said Saturday, a major gain for the group which has been making inroads amid the chaos of the country's civil war.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 22 2015 21:11 utc | 37

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