Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 04, 2015

Syria: Negotiating Ethnic Cleansing And A Temporary Partition

The U.S. has no interest to defeat the Islamic State or to end the conflict in Syria and Iraq. Instead it is following a policy, successfully so far, which is designed to split Syria as well as Iraq into autonomous statelets which later may or may not realign into loose confederacies. There are now attempts to somewhat formalize that situation.

Many of the recently inserted 60 Pentagon trained mercenaries are by now captured, wounded or dead. Last night Jabhat al-Nusra captured another five of them. Mary Wheeler thinks that the whole theater around these few idiots was possibly just a fake to find a reason for the declaration of a U.S. imposed no-fly zone over north Syria. An illegal invasion of Syria to justify an even more illegal U.S. annexation of Syrian land and air space.

Media accounts describe the 60 fighters as the "first U.S. trained rebels". The 10,000 Syrian and foreign mercenaries the CIA trained and equipped since at least 2012 at a cost of $1 billion per year are conveniently put down the memory hole. The many more jihadis financed, trained and equipped by Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar who went to join the Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra are also missing from such accounts. The media insist that the whore's just born seventh child originates from an immaculate conception.

The U.S. may, for now, get its wish for a splintered Syria and Iraq. After four years of a massive onslaught from outside actors the Syrian government is no longer able to control all of the country. It needs to buy time to recuperate resources and wait for a major change in international policies. There has been a flurry of diplomacy recently, mostly pushed by Russia, to somewhat formalize the current situation.

The chief of the Syrian intelligence was recently in Saudi Arabia and the Saudi chief of intelligence will visit Syria at the end of the month. The Russia foreign minister Lavrov met several parties in Moscow and over the last two days in Doha. He spoke with the Syrians, with Hamas, with the leader of the U.S. proxy Syrian exile group, with Hizbullah, with Qatari and Saudi liaisons to Jabhat al Nusra and the Islamic State as well as with secretary of state Kerry. The Syrian foreign minister Muallem and the Russian deputy foreign minister Bogdanov will soon touch down in Tehran.

There are certainly some deeper discussion about longer term issues going on but one of the more urgent negotiating points is the fate of some 40,000 Shia Syrians in two insurgent besieged towns just north of Idlib. These are under daily artillery barrage from Nusra and other jihadi groups and the humanitarian situation in Kafraya and Al-Fou’aa is dire. The Syrian army currently supplies the towns by air and local forces so far held off all attack but there is no way to relief the towns from the ground and no longer term solution. Meanwhile Hizbullah is besieging and operating against several hundred jihadis in Zabadani near the Lebanese border. Unlike in earlier operations Hizbullah will not let any of its enemies flee from this cauldron.

A complicate deal is in the making that would exchange the besieged 40,000 civilians in Kafraya and Al-Fou’aa for the militants in Zabadani. Such a deal would be a "negotiated ethnic cleansing". There are many parties involved including Hizbullah and Jabhat al Nusra and the exchange would take place under the supervision of the United Nations. Nothing is fixed yet and transferring such a huge number of people through enemy territory and lines will be difficult to achieve.

Should the deal go through and the evacuations successfully executed a model would have been found that could then be repeated in other areas. In the end some homogenous territories would be defined, each under rule of one armed entity, and some of the fighting over enclaves would die down.

But that state would be far from peace. The fighting would continue along internal border areas with no side giving up yet on its maximalist aims. Neither the more secular Sunnis nor the Alawi, Shia, Kurds or the Druze want independent statelets. They want to be Syrians. The Syrian government will reassert itself, if needed with the help of Russian paratroopers. The war will still go on for a long time.

Posted by b on August 4, 2015 at 13:48 UTC | Permalink

Comments
next page »

As usual, an insightful post, b. Some of these developments indicate that there has been a rethinking going on among the Saudi royals. The present lot were left saddled with this Syrian mess by Bandar & Co, and seem to be trying to extricate themselves from it. Then there is the recent alliance with Egypt's el-Sisi. He was pro-Assad, and is anti-jihadis and anti-Turkey. He has probably influenced Prince Salman to change policy.

Posted by: FB Ali | Aug 4 2015 15:46 utc | 1

Any time the US does something moderately good (e.g., signing a deal to end sanctions on Iran) you can count on them to quickly counter it with something bad (e.g., continuing to try to overthrow the government of Syria to install another regime of chaos as in Libya). It's good to be able to count on Moon of Alabama to call out these instances.

Posted by: WorldBLee | Aug 4 2015 16:11 utc | 2

Should the deal go through and the evacuations successful a model would have been found that could then be repeated in other areas. In the end some homogenous territories would be defined, each under rule of one entity, and some of the fighting over enclaves would die down.

Imo, this a huge mistake. It's Identity Politics writ large. Before the Yankees wrecked Iraq (for "Israel") Iraq was notionally secular and Yankees deliberately inflamed sectarian tensions by disenfranchising Sunni and empowering Shia. Abracadabra: in 2014 Obama began whining about the Iraqi Govt being too Shia and regime-changed Iraq by telling Maliki to step down.

Before Obama's fake war on Assad (for "Israel") Syria was notionally secular. This so-called strategy will create as many problems as it solves, as b's following par illustrates...

But that state would be far from peace. The fighting would continue along internal border areas with no side giving up yet on its maximalist aims. Neither the more secular Sunnis nor the Alawi, Shia, Kurds or the Druze want independent statelets. They want to be Syrians. The Syrian government will reassert itself, if needed with the help of Russian paratroopers. The war will still go on for a long time.

Syria & Russia should resist adopting this 'model'. It sets a precedent for applying external pressure to "Sectarianise" Syria which will be difficult to reverse.
The Russians are pretty clever. They should (very publicly) blackmail the Yankees into quelling the non-moderate "rebels" who have taken "40,000 innocent Syrians" hostage.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 4 2015 16:20 utc | 3

How many armed Jihad-is are there 20,000/40,000? But more importantly how many of the 5 million people under their control [some might call them hostages] actually want to be governed by these animals? It is difficult for the Sunni in those areas to rise up against them so they must be crushed from outside. IS can only survive if they can continue to be supplied with arms and funding from Turkey and the Gulf states. A case in point is the sale of oil through Turkish intermediaries, pressure should come from the US, but it will not. Maybe Assad can do a deal with the Kurds, a promise of some kind of self rule or such like, to pressure Erdogan. One thing J Landis got right in the link above, is that this is existential, for both sides, IS have to be smashed.

Posted by: harry law | Aug 4 2015 16:44 utc | 4

The Achilles Heel of this story, for the Yankees, is that the term "two insurgent besieged towns" sounds all but QED that the siege is NOT the work of Syrian Nationals. It is much more likely to be non-Syrians imported from outside Syria. It makes no sense at all that Syrian nationals would besiege a random bloc of Syrians. I also don't buy the (Media?, bullshit?) that there are "Shia towns" in SECULAR Syria ... because if there are then this isn't a story.

I hasten to add that I'm critical of the story, not b's perspective.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 4 2015 16:49 utc | 5

Tomorrow's headlines .... "Assad Thumbs Nose At Obama."

http://news.yahoo.com/us-says-may-additional-steps-defend-allies-syria-172801915.html

Posted by: dh | Aug 4 2015 17:22 utc | 6

The Syrian government will reassert itself, if needed with the help of Russian paratroopers.

well the Syrian gov'ts gameplan right now, in response to the very overt US bombing of it's territory and killing it's civilians, seems to be "Let's just sit tight and ignore them. Hopefully they'll just go away"

Unless it can militarily assert itself in it's own airspace soon, then it's only a matter of time.

The idea that russian Paratroopers are going to arrive and save the day is laughable. Not only is this very unlikely to actually happen, but even if it did they would they not arrive in numbers enough to save the situation for the Assad/syrian gov't.

I don't think the Russians are that stupid, and it's probably too late for that anyway, even if they were that stupid.

The USAF Bombing Syrian Territory [and civilians] is the "New Norm" now.

If the russkies were going to save the day they should have made their moves before USAF Bombing of Syrian Territory [and civilians] became the "New Norm"

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 4 2015 17:31 utc | 7

b, you can't do a post on what is occurring in Syria without mentioning the fact that Kurdistan is in the process of being created.

The "Kurds", you claim, want to be a part of Syria are not the Kurds forming Kurdistan-

Ignoring what is going on with the NATO backed Kurds is like pretending the giant pink elephant isn't in the room.

The Kurds backed by NATO: PKK/YPG are forming cantons, governing them and connecting them into a unified territory as you and I type-

With the assistance of US airstrikes

When one speaks of the Kurds, one has to speak of the heavy duty ties with Israel. Kurdistan, Israel's home away from home
;)

b, there is a giant pink elephant in the room. It can't be ignored.

As for the expansion of airstrikes, it was always the plan. Expanding war on Syria- all this talk of supporting their trainees was just the big distraction.

Posted by: Penny | Aug 4 2015 17:37 utc | 8

The SAA and Hezbolla are in a mopping up phase in the West of Syria.

The Southern Front is a complete failure for the terrorists from Jordan and the SAA with Hezbollah will soon be peforming the same type of cleanup operations on the Jordan and Palestine borders in the coming months.

IS has become a non-factor. Still able to cause horrendous acts of terror but militarily they have been reduced to nothing more than another foreign supported terror group. Iraq is rapidly cutting off the ability of IS to move freely across the Syria/Iraq border.

IS main supporter Erdoğan has managed to unite the Kurds with the Syrian government.

The US terrorist training program is complete failure.

Sorry, but this war is winding down. More hard work is still to be done in Idlib and the border with Iraq but anyone believing idiotic stories about 'partition' or other inane deals is delusional.

Posted by: Kathy | Aug 4 2015 18:03 utc | 9

anyone believing idiotic stories about 'partition' or other inane deals is delusional.

Posted by: Kathy | Aug 4, 2015 2:03:03 PM | 8

I have no idea if b is delusional or not, but he is the one posting about "partition plans"

Sorry, but this war is winding down.\

well certainly b and many others, you included now I guess, have been saying that for nearly 3 years now.

3 yrs later such talk certainly is looking quite delusional indeed.

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 4 2015 18:28 utc | 10

re 5

It makes no sense at all that Syrian nationals would besiege a random bloc of Syrians.
I don't see that at all. There was plenty of sectarianism already among rebels of Syrian origin. After all, it was they who invented the chant, "Christians to Beirut, Alawites to the tomb". They had their women veiled to the eyes already in 2011.

Of course they might give it up if they stopped being paid.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 4 2015 18:40 utc | 11

Russian paratroopers can enter anytime that they want to. I am skeptical of reports that they will do such a thing, but it's certainly possible for Russia to bully its way in to the conflict as a way of throwing USA out

Posted by: aaaaa | Aug 4 2015 18:47 utc | 12

@11 How about a few planeloads of Chinese troops in there too? Time to go all in.

Posted by: dh | Aug 4 2015 18:52 utc | 13

furthermore, Russia won't commit troops to Syria unless they know that its' a strategically tenable situation - i.e. Syria the tide in their favor.

If Kathy's claims are correct, then maybe we'll soon see some dramatically positive developments for the Syrian government

Posted by: aaaaa | Aug 4 2015 18:53 utc | 14

It should not be forgotten that Saudi has been funding a programme of Wahhabi-style Islam for years, on a world-wide basis, building mosques and schools to propagate the doctrine. In most countries of the Islamic world, many of the new mosques are saudi-funded. In Benin, to give an example I recently discovered, the old mosques were built by returned slaves from Brazil, and look like Catholic churches. The new mosques are all in the Saudi style.

I don't know much in detail how the Saudi propaganda worked before 2011 in Syria, but I'd be surprised if the money didn't get in years before the revolt. Asad didn't want to offend the Saudis. That would have provided a pool of Wahhabi inclined Sunnis ready to fight for sectarianism.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 4 2015 19:01 utc | 15

Remember when ISIL and Al Qaeda was on the back foot, was exact time the US Empire wanted to attack Syria but chose not to due to the slight and uncommitted unpopularity among most of the public.

When the proxy terrorists started dominating the top half of Syria, there was no calls for western war crime regime change by the empire because things were going as planned.
And now that the proxy terrorists are getting too big for their boots, that's when the US Empire is ramping up the plans to directly attack Syria itself with its bootlicking allies. Cutting deals with the fuck wit Erdogan to launch airstrikes, is just the beginning phase of direct Western war crime regime change.

The tough part for the empire is how to destroy of enough of their proxies in ISIL and Al Qaeda, to remove them from power and control in Syria, take out the Syrian regime, and a regime it is, and relocate hegemon ( US and mid East ) terrorist proxies to Hezbollah, Iran and Russia.

Posted by: tom | Aug 4 2015 20:07 utc | 16

@11 How about a few planeloads of Chinese troops in there too? Time to go all in.

Posted by: dh | Aug 4, 2015 2:52:14 PM | 12

Sure , why not? In for a penny . . .

Cry "havoc!", and let slip the Dogs of war

===============

Pretty certain neither the chinese nor the ru-skis are that dumb.


Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 4 2015 20:15 utc | 17

If Kathy's claims are correct,

Posted by: aaaaa | Aug 4, 2015 2:53:36 PM | 13

Well whatever ya do don't hold yer breath while waitin. that would not end well.


Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 4 2015 20:18 utc | 18

Kathy @ 8 says:

believing idiotic stories about 'partition' or other inane deals is delusional

the thing is is that a kind of de-facto partition of sorts has already been accomplished in Syria. 9 million Syrians, as of a year ago, have been displaced, internally or externally. that's 9 million castaways. THAT'S ONE HALF OF THE PEOPLE OF SYRIA!!!

and i'm sure that if there is one thing you've learned in life it's that...
there's no going back.

Posted by: john | Aug 4 2015 20:23 utc | 19

http://www.todayszaman.com/columnist/dogu-ergil/trouble_395549.html

I think Zaman is trustworthy, but the tales of the content of close meetings should be taken cautiously. However, the story on the paratroopers is official. Russia does not have manpower to turn the tide in Syria, but Iran could. I think that West Europe wanted Iran to have more resources precisely because ISIS and waves of refugees cause a lot of headaches. Rudaw.net had a story of extremely amicable interactions of Shia militias and Peshmerga in Kirkuk area (I suspect this story is in part about how things should be than about how they are, but the vision is important).

In other words, additional manpower and more plentiful arms from Russia and Iran could change the game at the time when jihadists in Syria are pretty exhausted and supply lines potentially uncertain.

Perhaps there is a window of opportunity before November. Erdogan seems to be the largest obstacle, but right now he has some problems supplying the jihad. Delivering some failures to Erdogan and jihad could decrease his popularity, and if the government in Turkey went into hands of CHP+HDP (and AKP splinter?), strategic balance would change drastically. Elections are pencilled for November.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 4 2015 20:28 utc | 20

the thing is is that a kind of de-facto partition of sorts has already been accomplished in Syria.
Posted by: john | Aug 4, 2015 4:23:51 PM | 18

Hey - stop using Reality to bully the delusional!

that's Racist, that is!

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 4 2015 20:37 utc | 21

@16 I doubt if the Russians or the Chinese will be provoked into a confrontation. They've seen all those tricks before.

But I bet the Syrians would love to bring down a pilot or two. One Christian = 100,000 Muslims.

Posted by: dh | Aug 4 2015 20:42 utc | 22

@21 Unless the Christians are also Arab.

Posted by: dh | Aug 4 2015 20:44 utc | 23

@tom

The tough part for the empire is how to destroy of enough of their proxies in ISIL and Al Qaeda, to remove them from power and control in Syria

US doesn't care. The Saudis are calling the shots, and they'll be fine with a Wahhabi regime, exactly like KSA.

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 4 2015 20:55 utc | 24

FYI Turkey is NOT part of any international coalition against Assad or DAESH/IS or whatever the name of those US/Saudi backed fanatics are.

Turkey IS Erdogan, and with the result of the past elections, he has no majority but also no opposition. The only game Turkey/Erdogan is playing right now is its own : how to stay where he is and become the futur Turkish Sultan. The rest is complete bullshit and media coverage.

Today Turkey has nothing to do with Syria, it only focuses on the Kurds only bombs the Kurds (in Syria) only arrests the Kurds (in Turkey).
Why ?
So that the Kurdish party won't get 10% of the votes at the next election and as a result won't have any congressman.... And Erdogan will get 80 more congressmen and thus be able to become a Super-President, then a Sultan.

Some of its voters thinking that he wasn't hard enough on the Kurds voted for the MHP (a fascist party against the Kurds). Those should be happy to see that he is now doing "what is necessary" and could revert their votes to Erdogan.

Some of the "normal" turks who voted left or right, could also turn to Erdogan because "the Kurds are murdering our poor soldiers"...
Some of them who voted for the HDP (kurdish party) could also change their votes because of the same "poor soldiers"...

A little less of the left, a little less on the right and Erdogan might very well end up with enough votes to rule the country on his own....

And that is THE ONLY think that interests him right now.

So any political analysis about Turkey's current role in Syria is complete nonsense...

If Erdogan manages to save his ass and continues to rule the country after october, _then_ and only then he might have something to say about Syria. But for the time being nothing Turkey does has anything to do with international politics.

Believe me, he's only trying to save his ass that's all.

PS: BTW Piotrt, Zaman is not a "trustworthy" newspaper. It belongs to Fethullah Gülen, an islamist "hoca" who was Erdogan's best buddy a few years ago and now his worst enemy. So what ever they says has to be analysed with that in mind. And the whole story about Putin, yelling a the Turkish ambassador and calling Erdogan a "dictator worse than A.Hitler" is total bullshit. I've only read that on a ADW News called piece of crap that nobody knows... But of course it's Zaman's job to talk about Erdogan that way and they will relay that kind of story even if they know that it's completely false. Hell ADW News could even be a front for F.Gülen itself...

Posted by: SysATI | Aug 4 2015 21:23 utc | 25

Blockquote: who the fuck are you to know anything?
As I implied, if Russia go in, that'd be a good indicator that the jihadists are probably facing an endgame. Otherwise it's prevent D against USAF

Posted by: aaaaa | Aug 4 2015 22:05 utc | 26

There are too many people who are filling their heads with pure fantasy from the Western media.

The only thing that is going to change the outcome of this war against Syria is a massive air attack by the US. The fake chemical attacks going nowhere thanks in large part to social media immediately debunking each new attempt within seconds of being posted. No one, even the hardcore supporters in the West, of this sickening attack on Syria are tying to claim Syria is fighting anything but foreign jihadist and mercenaries. There will be no US led UN action in Syria.

The murderous clown Erdogan is bombing the Kurds and completely derailing the latest attempt by the US to start a bombing campaign in the North of Syria.

Jordan is terrified that the remaining crazed jihadists they helped train and send across the border are about to pack it up in Syria and turn their sights on Jordan.

Israel got a harsh lesson in what it means to mess with Hisbollah a few months ago.

Saudi Arabia is on the brink of destruction due to their comically inept attack on Yemen.

And Syria, Hisbollah, Iraq, Iran, and Russia are tightening their security cooperation.

Taking out the foreign jihadists in the North of Syria is going to be tough but with so much of the rest of Syria being cleansed by the SAA and Hisbollah it is not a question of if but just how long it will take. IS has been shown to be completely incapable of going head to head in direct military engagements and instead are completely reliant on the mass and swarm and hide among civilian population centers strategy and have been suffering insane casualties the past six months.

The West and Gulf dictatorships are clearly running out of crazed jihadists to send into Syria. Other than the Kurds possibly ending up with a bit more autonomy in their areas of Syria how anyone can believe that the Syrian war against foreign jihadists is doing anything other than winding down I'd love to hear why.

Posted by: farook | Aug 4 2015 23:18 utc | 27

I find this post by B to be a bit confused but perhaps that is a reflection of the mess that Syria and Saudi Arabia have to deal with together now that they have brought to the negotiating table by Russia.

The significant thing though is that the Saudis and Syrians have agreed to work something out and that is an indication that the Saudis realise that overthrowing Assad is much harder than they thought and that this together with their senseless invasion of Yemen is destabilising their own country. It also demonstrates that the US is losing influence in the Middle East and must be in full panic mode which is certain to lead to the US making more mistakes of the same brutal and violent kind.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 4 2015 23:37 utc | 28

"The war will still go on for a long time."

Makes me so sad.

Maybe Syria will negotiate with the Saudis long enough for Saudia to fall.

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Aug 5 2015 0:41 utc | 29

Re: 24, SysATI: Zaman is a very polished paper, and it definitely attempts to be sophisticated and credible, so I would not suspect them of pulling stuff out of their asses. That said, with an unofficial version of a closed meeting there is a wide room for pulling all stops. It is like when you bluff while playing poker: it works best if you bid predictably and deviate sharply only at well selected moments.

However, Erdoganists do not even attempt to be polished and credible. For example, they reported that Turkish airforce killed 190 PKK terrorists. Hard to believe, because they used to bomb Kandil regularly before the "peace process" and I bet PKK has a very good system of shelters. Example two, they reported that Barzani condemned PKK, but in KRG press it is something order of magnitude milder, and of course KRG will not remove PKK from Kandil/Qandil (just to make sure, PKK blew out the pipeline that is the only export route for KRG). And Erdoganists claimed that in private, Putin was inclined to abandoning Assad, and really, when did Putin abandon one of "his bastards"? It is actually possible that the story of Putin yelling about Erdogan has a Russian source, and Russia will deny neither of the two versions.

Last comment: I do not believe that a plan to exchange enclaves in Idlib for Qalamoun enclaves is possible. It would necessitate a very high level of coordination and mutual trust, while even different branches to jihadists do not trust each other.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 5 2015 0:59 utc | 30

#26:

Re:"The West and Gulf dictatorships are clearly running out of crazed jihadists"

Well, "a sucker is born every minute," so a certain quantity of gullible, misguided idealists, ripe for exploitation, will turn 18 every year. But the West and GCC have certainly burned through their current surplus of cannon fodder.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Aug 5 2015 1:54 utc | 31

A bit off topic but, on the subject of Erdogan, he was interviewed in a CCTV (China) EXCLUSIVE last week, during which he indicated that Turkey is:

- seeking closer economic ties with China to address a China-Turkey trade imbalance and a shortfall in the projected Turkey-China trade total for 2015 ($50B projected vs ~$20B actual).
- still interested in full SCO membership
- keen on Turkey's inclusion in the China-inspired AIIB venture
- believes that peace with the Kurds is 'impossible'
- openly questions the West's silence on Morsi's death sentence

An optimist could be forgiven for concluding that Erdogan is seriously contemplating a Turkish Pivot to Asia and escape from the frustrations of incoherent Western policies and influence.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 5 2015 4:23 utc | 32

The only one in Syria who seems to be having trouble finding recruits is Assad who stated that fact publicly recently. It's difficult to estimate the number of Rebel forces but 200,000 well armed and motivated fighters seems possible.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 5 2015 4:30 utc | 33

On Monday, August 3, Turkey's Erdogan stated to the press that accompanied him on his trip to Indonesia, that Putin "might give up" his support for Assad, a futile attempt to create the impression his campaign for regime change in Syria is winning support even from Putin, a staunch supporter of the Syrian regime.

On Tuesday, August 4, Russia's Putin summoned the Turkey envoy to Moscow, and breaking all diplomatic protocol, in a statement that according to AWD News was originally published by "Moscow Times," and has only been reproduced by alternative media, i.e. Veterans Today, Press TV, Al Manar TV, Reddit, et al, Putin issued a clear ultimatum to Turkey, "End all military support for ISIS" or else...

“Tell your dictator Erdogan to go to hell and that unless he stops well established and easily proven support for ISIS, Russia will sever diplomatic relations. We are prepared to turn Syria into a big Stalingrad for Turkey and her Saudi allies and their vicious little gang of Hitlers. Your little dictator is a hypocrite, attacking the military coup in Egypt while, at the same time, he is trying to overthrow the elected government of Syria. As it stands, China, Iran and Russia will guarantee the survival of Syria.”

Putin Issues Ultimatum, Threatens War Over Erdogan’s Support of ISIS

If true, a strongest statement of support for Syria, at the same time debunking Erdogan lies about Putin "giving up" on Assad, couldn't have come from Russia. Other sites have reproduced more or less the same statement, with few word changes.

Putin to Turkey Envoy: Tell Erdogan He Can Go to Hell along with ISIL Terrorists

Russian president to Turkish ambassador: "tell your dictator President he can go to hell along with his ISIS terrorists, I will make Syria a 'Big Stalingrad' for him!"

Russia knows very well the attack on Syria and Iraq is an attack at their borders, and "better to fight them in Syria than in Chechnya/Dagestan/Ingushetia/Caucasus." The statement by the elite VDV paratroopers, ready to fight in Syria, shows the depth of commitment the Russians are ready to go to keep Syria under their sphere of influence. Russia's base at the port of Tartus has taken renewed importance under the new Naval Doctrine "from the Arctic to the Antarctic" signed by Putin last month. There are many other strategic considerations for Russia, China and Iran to give up on Syria, a region they intend to pacify as part of their Eurasian Great Game.

If Putin statement to Erdogan is true, Russia's red line re: Syria and the Greater Middle East has been clearly demarcated, and the empire's ME game will be redefined under new rules.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5 2015 4:32 utc | 34

BTW, the only Turkish newspaper published in English that mentioned the undiplomatic incident, if ever happened, is Today's Zaman, very well know for its opposition to Erdogan and its support for the Gulen movement. One of TZ columnists, DOĞU ERGİL, mentioned the incident prefacing it with a big "If the news out of Moscow on Aug. 3 in the Moscow Times (http://awdnews.com/top-news/) is true..." in the context of an article attacking Erdogan's domestic and foreign policies.

Trouble?

The incident, if ever happened, is very non-Putin, well know for his reservation and calmed approach to difficulties, however trying. There is another side of Putin, not so evident in public, which shows only after he has exhausted his patience trying to solve a problem without positive results, and is that of a man who has made a decision and will stand his ground no matter what. If the incident is true, who knows what Erdogan did or said that triggers such a powerful response.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5 2015 5:27 utc | 35

CORRECTION

"...If the incident is true, who knows what Erdogan did or said that TRIGGERED such a powerful response."

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5 2015 5:31 utc | 36

Lone Wolf @33: It's unlikely to be true. Sounds made up, and it is not reported in rt or sputnik. Putin is playing a game of patient support of Syria, but it seems to me the limits are well-established with a requirement of minimal fireworks and 'controversy'. I _could_ see Russian support of increased numbers of Iranian forces. But no, inserting a significant number of 'white guys' is not a move Putin would make.

My sense is that there is no immediate crisis despite new Western empire propaganda on Assad's 'decline' or whatever. There seems in fact to be consolidation/stalemate, and maybe very slight advances on the Syrian side in the heartland where it is strongest. If anything, the latest silly but deadly moves the the US represent a some desperation on that side.

My guess is that we may be set for another 10 years of war, but eventually the US/UK/KSA/Turkey sectarian/mercenary forces will wear down. There is no immediate need to 'do something' on the anti-imperial side. So Putin won't.

Posted by: fairleft | Aug 5 2015 5:52 utc | 37

@23 okie farmer.

In terms of a sunni wahabi 'state' to keep terrorising Shia, I'm with you. But not in terms of a rich powerhouse of KSA, cause I don't think the slave Princes/king are calling the shots.

A stable dictatorship loyal to the US empire is always the goal of it regime change. It's what the zionists want to. And it has to keep whoever is in charge of Syria weak and subservient, which is not so much like SA.

Posted by: tom | Aug 5 2015 6:03 utc | 38

lonewolf.. moscow times.. check mt's agenda.. it isn't in sync with reality. it's more propaganda.. see a previous link for a discussion on this specific topic..

Posted by: james | Aug 5 2015 6:34 utc | 39

to myself @37.

And the Saudi terrortist state can't even run their own (genocidal) war against little old Yemen, so how can they do regime change that will last anything like a typical US run dictarorship. All they know is Wahhabism and oil.

Posted by: tom | Aug 5 2015 6:49 utc | 40

TOM @39
The US exerts best efforts to transfer the burden of military expenditure to its allies/including KSA/

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/july_2015/should_defense_be_left_off_the_spending_chopping_block

Posted by: ALAN | Aug 5 2015 7:20 utc | 41

tom@37
US has consistently supported Sunni regimes in ME and N Africa. Same as Israel. The US is a allied with all Sunni regimes in the area; so who's 'calling the shots' is probably the deep state in all these countries in collaboration with each other, although I suspect the CIA is the lead agency. The Shia Crescent has always been an obstacle for Israel's Yinon Plan.

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 5 2015 7:24 utc | 42

Don't worry, once Jeb!- Rafael 2016 are installed in office, and WW3 is humming along again nicely in Eurasia, once USAryan war factories are filled with happy Hispanic and Hindu workers and the Fed eliminates Social Security in favor of perpetual interest-only debt penury forever, then everything will be better, the sun will shine on the Ivory City on the Hill against a stunning backdrop of Bougainvillea, Scientism will become the Final Religion, and we're never gonna die~!

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 5 2015 8:25 utc | 43

If Putin statement to Erdogan is true,

.Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5, 2015 12:32:57 AM | 33

Well there ya go. You wasted time and words blathering about the consequences of an alleged statement reported by hardly anyone and skipped completely over the fact that those that did report it are not known for their credibility

Any way the bullshit alleged statement probably wasnt even remotely true, and was grabbed onto by the usual bunch of wishful thinking idiots that have been declaring the Syrian war as "over" for at least the last 3 yrs

Amazing that some people choose to waste so much time writing so much tosh based on so little actual reality in fact


Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 5 2015 9:56 utc | 44

My guess is that we may be set for another 10 years of war,
Posted by: fairleft | Aug 5, 2015 1:52:12 AM | 36

You mean i gotta listen to 10 more years of the usual idiots telling me how this war is almost over? Man thats harsh

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 5 2015 10:14 utc | 45

BLOCKQUOTE @44: Mostly mild and stalemate-y but with occasional flare ups (of stupidity mixed with terrorism) based on US, Turkish and Israeli internal politics.

Posted by: fairleft | Aug 5 2015 10:36 utc | 46

re 32

The only one in Syria who seems to be having trouble finding recruits is Assad who stated that fact publicly recently.
It's only an issue now because the rebels (non-jihadi) all went home years ago. They'll defend their village, but that's about it. The forces actually fighting the war are very small, as you can see when reading accounts of actual battles.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 5 2015 11:33 utc | 47

In re "Stalingrad" and AWD news -- This item was already raised and debunked at the "Cruel and Aimless War" thread (see Wayout's nr. 22 there.) That AWD failed to provide a link to the asserted Moscow Times report should have been a dead giveaway.

BLOCKQUOTE at 43 finds it "Amazing that some people choose to waste so much time writing so much tosh based on so little actual reality in fact." No surprise to me at all. People take wild guesses about things they don't know about all the time here. I find this puzzling when Wikipedia, Bing and Google are but a few clicks away, but it is not uncommon.

Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 5 2015 12:32 utc | 48

I find this puzzling when Wikipedia, Bing and Google are but a few clicks away, but it is not uncommon.

Posted by: rufie kardashian| Aug 5, 2015 8:32:03 AM | 47

Yes, its long been obvious that without wikipedia, google and bing to copy&paste from you certainly would have much more severe problems than you currently have, rufie

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 5 2015 13:12 utc | 49

@fairleft@36

It's unlikely to be true. Sounds made up, and it is not reported in rt or sputnik.

Incidents like this happened all the time in the international arena, but they remain obscure due to the nature of diplomacy. Putin may or may not have lambasted the Turkey envoy, or given him an ultimatum, but it is good to follow the trail of this kind of "news" for one's own clarity. The fact is, an obscure news site from Germany, AWD News picked it up from the anti-Russian, anti-Putin rag Moscow Times, and then spread to alternative venues, without any proof it had been published at the Moscow Times. However, it is normal for governments to leak issues like this to whichever news outlet is convenient for them at any given time, and nothing better than the MT when it comes to show Putin on a bad light. They could conveniently kill the news once their intended purpose has been achieved, and the news has been spread by other venues. All governments manipulate information and news the same way, and the Russians are not the exception.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5 2015 13:33 utc | 50

BLOCKHEAD@43&44

What a pretentious nincompoop. Sorry my post was too much gymnastics for your pygmy brain, but will try an adjustment next time for a -40 IQ, if possible.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5 2015 13:43 utc | 51

@rufus magister@47

Exploring an issue is not the same as swallowing it, and if the issue had been debunked in other venues, there is nothing wrong with debunking it here too. Case closed.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5 2015 13:49 utc | 52

Mike Whitney highlights The Brookings Institute Plan to Liquidate Syria


Syria is going to be the testing ground for O’Hanlon’s new regime change strategy ... an anarchic failed state sprinkled with US military bases where massive resource extraction can take place unimpeded.

The strategy is explained in great detail in a piece by Michael E. O’Hanlon at the Brookings Institute titled “Deconstructing Syria: A new strategy for America’s most hopeless war”.


I don't think that's news to anyone here, but Mike is telling it like it is to the folks at counterpunch, who seem to be behind the curve on Greece, Syria, Ukraine and such like. Lot of focus on Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton though.

Posted by: jfl | Aug 5 2015 13:52 utc | 53

There are some 'real' news stories on the ME today, Russia has invited the Syrian National Coalition leaders to Moscow for talks and they accepted this time, something has definitely changed in Russia's position on Syria.

Loyalists forces backed by UAE mechanized units have taken al-Anad airbase in Yemen, this is Yemen's largest airbase north of Aden that was the US drone base.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 5 2015 14:13 utc | 54

Okie farmer;The only people calling shots are the Zionists.The Saudi regime rests with the Zionists,otherwise its toast.All roads lead to Zion,from Ukraine to Africa to Asia.

Posted by: dahoit | Aug 5 2015 14:22 utc | 55

"gymnastics"
Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5, 2015 9:43:13 AM | 50


Well that's one word for it, I guess.

Posted by: href | Aug 5 2015 14:42 utc | 56

There's no indication here that Putin is thinking about selling out Assad, in fact, the article clearly states "Lavrov dismissed the allegations that Russia could be preparing to shift its support for Assad as he called for dialogue between opposition groups and Assad's government..."
http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/08/05/russia-invites-main-syrian-opposition-group-for-talks

So why has "Russia invited the main Syrian opposition group to visit Moscow"???

According to the article, Putin wants to "form a coalition that would include those confronting the terror threat with arms in hands, meaning the Syrian army, the Iraqi army and the Kurds."

Okay. But why would the opposition groups (RE: US-backed militants) join a coalition when their real goal is to remove Assad?

What am I missing here?

Posted by: plantman | Aug 5 2015 14:49 utc | 57

jfl @52 "... an anarchic failed state sprinkled with US military bases where massive resource extraction can take place unimpeded."

How does an "anarchic failed state sprinkled with US military bases" mean that "massive resource extraction can take place unimpeded"? Wouldn't actual experience in places like Afghanistan lead you to expect the opposite in US-occupied anarchic failed states?

Well, such doctrines -- their stupidity overlooked by all the important and suitably well paid pundits and analysts -- have for years justified the US military's massive money extraction from US taxpayers.

Posted by: fairleft | Aug 5 2015 15:09 utc | 58

re 57

How does an "anarchic failed state sprinkled with US military bases" mean that "massive resource extraction can take place unimpeded"?
Syria doesn't have more than minimal resources that could be extracted unimpededly. I couldn't understand that one from 52.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 5 2015 15:51 utc | 59

plantman @ 56: "What am I missing here?"

Maybe, that, just like the Western Empire, Putin needs to pay attention to his oligarchs and attend to Geo-political interests. Russia needs that naval base in Syria. Could it be, this whole confrontation is just Western oligarchs Vs. Eastern oligarchs?

I would like to believe Putin and the BRICS really care about the welfare of the masses, but who knows? Time will tell.

Posted by: ben | Aug 5 2015 16:24 utc | 60

From Counterpunch:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/05/the-brookings-institute-plan-to-liquidate-syria/

Posted by: ben | Aug 5 2015 16:32 utc | 61

Syria's just an unfriendly regime to DC wonks.. all resistance to the USA empire in that region must be undermined and wiped out.
Still wondering what the hell Putin's going to do (probably nothing)

Posted by: aaaaa | Aug 5 2015 17:37 utc | 62

there are many things that are not clear to me. The fight between Erdogan and Gulen (US backed and living in the US)- what is that about? It is obvious that Erdogan supports ISIS although I would doubt that the main Turkish general population is with it. It is obvious that the Turkish military is with Erdogan in killing Kurds in the PKK. The renewed fight against Kurds in Turkey seems to be mainly about Erdogan losing his majority. It is clear that without an airforce the islamic jihadis can't win against conventional armies - Ghadafi was holding his own in Libya until NATO became the air force for the Islamic fundamental insurgents. the US is divided - part of it wants to Balkanize Iraq into Kurdistan, Sunnistan, and Shiastan. Notice how the US airforce does help the Kurds fighting ISIS. ISIS helped get rid of Maliki who wouldn't be a complete puppet for the US but then was getting too successful. Erdogan is dead against the idea of Kurdistan and also does want to get rid of Assad as does the US plus the Gulf kingdoms. The Russians let Ghadafi go but drew the line in Syria which has stopped the US and NATO air force from being used. The Russian naval base at Tartus has a lot to do with this. The US is still trying, using Turkey and ISIS to get its airforce bombing Syria. Stalement and continued war in Syria for the foreseeable future. As long as Arabs keep killing Arabs the US establishment is happy.

Posted by: gepay | Aug 5 2015 17:47 utc | 63

I mentioned in the earlier post about Division 30 that that fighting force was a sham and a PsyOps operation to pave the way for more discussion in the US about troops on the ground. This Brooking's report is verification of the return of the Syrian Intervention meme even though its dividing up Syria into enclaves storyline is BS.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 5 2015 17:49 utc | 64

How could I have forgotten that Israel wants Assad gone also. Is already supplying an airforce for the Islamic jihadists operating on its border with Syria.

Posted by: gepay | Aug 5 2015 17:50 utc | 65

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33792796

A US plan to build a moderate fighting force to take on the Islamic State (IS) group in Syria has been criticised by a senior rebel trained in the programme.

Capt Ammar al Wawi said the US and its allies failed to protect his fighters - known as Division 30 - when they came under attack in Syria last week.

At least five fighters were killed and more than 10 abducted in clashes with al-Qaeda-affiliated al-Nusra Front.

Capt Wawi said only 60 fighters had been trained so far under the plan.

This was despite a pledge by the US last summer to train up to 5,000 fighters a year to form a moderate Sunni opposition to help take on IS militants.

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 5 2015 19:36 utc | 66

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/06/world/middleeast/turkey-recep-tayyip-erdogan-airstrike-pkk-isis.html
Politics Seen Behind Turkish Leader’s Push to Fight Kurds

By TIM ARANGO and CEYLAN YEGINSU 11:38 AM ET

Analysts say that by resuming military operations against the Kurds, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is setting the stage for snap elections so his party can regain control of Parliament.

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 5 2015 19:59 utc | 67

Libya is the perfect lesson on how not to install a forced dictatorship loyal to the US Empire. It's been lawless chaos In Libya because there's no stable repressive dictatorship forced by the U.S. Because it's not been able, and that is a lesson it wants to take on board.

In Syria, The US doesn't have its own regional acolytes powerful enough to take over a repressive government in a stable way, So then murderous chaos by created using terrorist jihadi proxies is 'fine' until that happens. If the US can't immediately control, then murderous chaos of opposing groups killing each other will makes it easier to control later. Divide and conquer. Conquer now, or conquer later, is just a matter of timing.

If in tiny Libya competing chaos has been going on for too long according to the empire, so in Syria, a far larger nation and with many more terrorist proxies involved, it is Far bigger problem to control, and much too big for the Zionists or the moronic and idiotic Saudis. Those two can't run shit.
Only the evil US Empire with this long track record of dictatorships and repressive governments across Africa and the Middle East is capable of such government obedience.

And since the US Empire in military terms is been recent failure in Iraq and Afghnistan, that's where the CIA and other US agencies are far more important and have a much more successful track record of sustaining the Empire. Thie Israelis and Saudis have nothing on the level of the CIA and similar agencies of domination and manipulation, It's not even close.

Posted by: tom | Aug 5 2015 20:39 utc | 68

Wayoutwest @ 63 says:

This Brooking's report is verification of the return of the Syrian Intervention meme even though its dividing up Syria into enclaves storyline is BS

confounded by the chicken first/egg first archetype?

maybe you should take some Geritol and catch up on the reruns.

Posted by: john | Aug 5 2015 20:39 utc | 69

tom @67:

"In Syria, The US doesn't have its own regional acolytes powerful enough to take over a repressive government in a stable way..."

That's OK, stable or not the US will just outsource. The Empire is more and more being exposed as having its own foreign legion, both military and administrative...

Posted by: Vintage Red | Aug 5 2015 21:18 utc | 70

Russia NOT planning to send troops to fight ISIS in Syria – Putin’s spokesman

The participation of the Russian military alongside the US in the fight against Islamic State militants in Syria, is not on the agenda, said Dmitry Peskov, the presidential press-secretary.

“No, this isn’t being discussed in any way. This issue isn’t on the agenda,” Peskov told reporters on Tuesday when asked about the possibility of Russian military involvement in Syria.

The press-secretary also told the media that Syrian President Bashar Assad, had never asked his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, to send troops to battle IS (formerly ISIS/ISIL).

well they we go.

another pipe-dream busted

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 5 2015 21:38 utc | 71

@plantman@56

So why has "Russia invited the main Syrian opposition group to visit Moscow"???

Russia's approach to international conflicts is to remain active in their solutions within the framework of international law. Same way they used P5+1 platform during the nuclear negotiations with Iran, Russians platform for Syria is the UN Action Group for Syria Final Communiqué 30.06.2012, which in a nutshell looks for a political settlement to the Syrian conflict.

The UN framework gives Russia the legitimacy to remain a main actor in the search for political solutions in Syria, while actively supporting the Syrian government in their struggle against the US/Eurostan created "opposition." The Russians are constantly calling for meetings with Syria's terrorist groups, which for the most part they refuse to attend. This is just the newest call for the "opposition" groups to come to Moscow for conversations re: a political solution to the Syrian conflict. Nothing significant, not a change in Russia's policy of support for Syria.

According to the article, Putin wants to "form a coalition that would include those confronting the terror threat with arms in hands, meaning the Syrian army, the Iraqi army and the Kurds."
Okay. But why would the opposition groups (RE: US-backed militants) join a coalition when their real goal is to remove Assad?

I haven’t read the article (US News denies access to anonymous browsers), but I don’t think Putin’s aim is to incorporate the takfiris into that coalition. The coalition, and I totally speculate here, might be only a platform for Russia to arm Iraq, Syria and the Kurds, a sort of anti-coalition to the US fake and phony coalition “fighting” ISIS.

What am I missing here?

Nothing.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5 2015 21:48 utc | 72

Still, nice to see the local 'Wishful-Thinking Bandwagon' rolling on, . . . and on, . . . and on . . . . and on , regardless.

Never let a little thing like reality get in the way of a good blatherfest, eh?

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 5 2015 22:07 utc | 73

Putin is already allied with Israel, Egypt and the Saudis in his crusade against 'Terrorists' so an alliance with the western oriented opposition in Syria is not a surprise. What he is offering them may be news if it is released after these meetings.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 5 2015 22:16 utc | 74

@BLOCKQUOTE@70

Russia NOT planning to send troops to fight ISIS in Syria – Putin’s spokesman

well they we go.

another pipe-dream busted

Clearly, myopia is not only a medical condition of the eyes, it is also a shortness of the brain.

Sending Russian troops to Syria would be a serious political and strategical mistake, since it would put Russia on a par with the US interventionist policies in the ME. It is a trap the Russians shouldn’t fall into, as it will tarnish their legitimacy as mediators in the Syrian conflict. Even Iran, which will be the most appropriate country to intervene in Syria (or Iraq) if needed, has avoided it. Interventions are a tar baby, as proven in the last twenty years by the stupid US neocons.

Russia’s role in Syria, which they coordinate closely with Iran and China, is to remain supporting Assad while advocating for a political solution. There are no shortcuts to the Syrian conflict, and no Russian intervention will stop the takfiri factories CIA has in Jordan, Turkey, KSA, etc. Knowing that, Russia, China and Iran are in for the long haul in their support of Assad and the search for a “political solution” that will leave Syria and Iraq with governments they consider friendly, denying the US/Eurostan another sector of the planet in the ME.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5 2015 22:27 utc | 75

Posted by: john | Aug 5, 2015 4:39:24 PM | 68

gosh geritol......gooser?

Posted by: mcohen | Aug 5 2015 22:45 utc | 76

in re 48 --

Yes, where would I be without sources of information? Why, I’d be just another idiot on the internet, randomly abusing people with verbal spitballs.

Hey! I’d be you, Lamebot. Only with more smarts and class, of course.

Kudos to your programmers, the improved subroutines had me mistaking you for a human being.

To LW at 51 –-

Agreed, exploring is not swallowing. But I’m pretty sure I'd heard some gulps. At least you brought out the best in BLOCKHEAD.

Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 5 2015 23:17 utc | 77

And what BlatherFest, worthy of the name, would be complete without the almost obligatory(?) yawn-inducing pontification of the Blather Magister himself, eh?

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 5 2015 23:23 utc | 78

Sending Russian troops to Syria would be a serious political and strategical mistake,

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5, 2015 6:27:03 PM | 74

Gee, ya think?

Wow. dat some high level strategic analysis ya got there, pardn'r

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 5 2015 23:27 utc | 79

Post number 7

The idea that russian Paratroopers are going to arrive and save the day is laughable. . . . .

I don't think the Russians are that stupid, and it's probably too late for that anyway, even if they were that stupid.


Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 4, 2015 1:31:25 PM | 7

Post number 74

Sending Russian troops to Syria would be a serious political and strategical mistake,

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 5, 2015 6:27:03 PM | 74

Foxy finally gets it.

Better late than never, I guess

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 5 2015 23:49 utc | 80

@Vintage Red@69

That's OK, stable or not the US will just outsource. The Empire is more and more being exposed as having its own foreign legion, both military and administrative...

...And the Ukraine became the testing ground for all kinds of outsourcing on the usual crooked suspects, from petty criminals like Saakashvili, to Islamic Battalions, Stocked With Chechens, to Russian "liberals," i.e. useful idiots, as Lenin used to call them.

I've been feeling the presence of your absence, VR, nice to know you're still around.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 6 2015 0:43 utc | 81

. . . . and on, . . . . and on, . . . and on . . .

Regardless.

It's like reading bad Press Releases conjured-up some mildly-retared dandruff-covered coke-bottle-lensed halfwit, wheeled out by neighing donkeys from the Ministry of Information [MinIn]

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 6 2015 0:52 utc | 82

@rufus magister@76

But I’m pretty sure I'd heard some gulps.

RM, that was me wishing it were true. :-) In reality, I truly hope Putin trims Erdogan's "Greater Turkey" delusions a bit, and no better place than Syria. When I quit posting a few months ago due to my traveling, MoA had a part-time idiot like BLOCKHEAD; is this the same one metamorphosed into a full-time idiot?

Cube top, squared off
Eight corners, 90-degree angles
Flat top, stares straight ahead
Snake eyes, blockhead

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 6 2015 1:30 utc | 83

Turkey is now the enemy! The Arab league unanimously ( minus Qatar) condemned the illegal attack on the Kurds who are citizens of Iraq and Syria.
This is the end of the short lived Saudi-Turkey 'alliance'that has allowed Al Nusra to occupy Edlib.

The Arabs are becoming finally aware that Turkey is a much more dangerous and militarily aggressive enemy that Iran. Turkey is openly bombing two neighboring Arab countries under the pretext of its own security. It is acting like Israel. And worse of all, Turkey is Sunni.

The UNSC, with Russia support, is about to agree to investigate the use of chemical weapons in Syria. Russia knows that the opposition will get the blame.
No wonder then that the opposition to Bashar al Assad is crumbling and now begging Russia to propose a way out.
It seems that by trying to boost himself by bombing Arab land under a sudden pretext, Erdogan has triggered a reverse of the GCC and Arab countries policy toward Syria, an Arab country.

The next few weeks may see the opposition accepting all conditions for a cease fire and negotiations.
We may be on the way to a resolve.

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 6 2015 1:43 utc | 84

in re 77 --

Bless you my son, but I'm just a humble street preacher. "Oh! By the way, Domini Domini Domini, you're all Catholics now! God bless you!" Sacrament of the Cup for all Barflies!

Incidentally, all contributions to aid in my magisterium are globally tax-deductible, except where prohibited. Deacons will be passing the plate momentarily, give as the spirit moves you, even the widow's mite helps in spreading the Good News. Bless you all, brothers and sisters, bless you all.

C'mon Cisco. Who in their right mind would want to live in this stinking desert?

Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 6 2015 1:44 utc | 85

Lone at 82 --

I wish it were too, Kemalism had its problems but beats soft Ottomanesque Islamicism. I'll settle for continued cooperation on the gas pipeline.

I believe it's the re-return of the troll formerly known as "Rogan Josh," aka "Napoleon Dynamite," aka Lamebot.

. . . . and on, . . . . and on, . . . and on . . .

Regardless.

It's like reading. . . . hurl.

Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 6 2015 1:59 utc | 86

@plantman@56

What am I missing here?

“Putin's plan” to deal with ISIS

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 6 2015 3:33 utc | 87

@rufus magister@85

I'll settle for continued cooperation on the gas pipeline.

Only because Greece needs it to get out of the troika's stranglehold, and Russia needs to get its gas out of Ukraine...hoping Erdogan's reign is coming soon to an end. He's not to be trusted with strategic deals, the man is unstable and dangerous.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Aug 6 2015 3:42 utc | 88

@86

It's interesting that Lavrov stated that support for Assad is irrelevant because a transition government has already been agreed on by most of the involved parties. The Russians can support Assad as he is transitioned out of Syria.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 6 2015 5:08 utc | 89

Lone Wolf, 87

I'd only go as far as "mercurial," but agree he's not to be trusted. Like Pakistani aid for the various mujaheddin in Afghanistan, they have their own agenda in fighting Washington's war for them. I would guess that Istanbul is trying to use Moscow as leverage vs. Washington.

Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 6 2015 5:57 utc | 90

86

As any fool knowe, Imitation is, of course, the sincerest form of flattery.

83
being called an idiot by an obvious halfwit like yourself never gets old. Downright hilarious. Methinks you project too much.

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 6 2015 7:55 utc | 91

Thing the i love most about boring farts like foxy and rufie is that they are frequently shown to be wrong,

They are frequently proven, time and again, to not have a f'n clue what they are talking about, yet they still just blater-on rehardless, as if people had not just moments earlier proven just how stupid they are.

Tards like that are hilarious.

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 6 2015 8:04 utc | 92

interesting that Webster Tarpley seems to find the recent report of Putin's ultimatum to the Turkish Ambassador completely legit. listen in for context. and here.

i mean, after being so thoroughly 'debunked' here at MOA.

Posted by: john | Aug 6 2015 10:09 utc | 93

93

Yes, indeed,

argumentum ad verecundiam
or "appeal to authority": - a common form of logically fallacious argument employed, often in desperation, by those with little in the way of actual fact to bolster their "argument" [such as it is]

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 6 2015 10:33 utc | 94


like all the other fools disseminating this Putin/Erdogan bullshit, Tarpley's sources for this BS are by his own admission, one (alleged) "wire service report" - unnamed wire service, unspecified report.

Tarpley seems to be basing his story on the exact same sources that have already been deservedly laughed at here.

So basically all your link to Tarpley "proves" is that he is as gullible, on this occasion at least, as that eejit above, Foxy or Wolfie or whatever he calls himself

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 6 2015 10:56 utc | 95

at minute 28 in the hilarious Tarpley link posted by "John", Mr Tarpley is listing various groups that are pushing for more war is Syria. he mentions "Neo-Cons" andthe host interjects with "Zionists" - listen to Tarpley run as quick he can away from any mention of Zionists, and any equating of "Neo-Cons" with "Zionists"

hilarious.

Tarpley is a purveyor what is known as "limited hangouts", mixing good info in with deliberate disinfo - according to Tarpley Obama is an innocent in all this and John Allen is to blame for it all.

"Gullible" hardly even begins to describe his crap

Of course he might just be plain ol' "dishonest" instead of merely "gullbile"

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 6 2015 11:23 utc | 96

. . . . and on, . . . . and on, . . . and on . . .

Regardless.

It's like reading. . . . chunder.

Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 6 2015 11:40 utc | 97

97

Argumentum ad moronicum - another of the frequent Logical fallacies which clowns such as Rufie like to employ

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 6 2015 11:47 utc | 98

Penny's post @8 (mysteriously disappeared, and then for some equally mysterious reason finally allowed to see the light of day, long after the conversation had passed on) is worth repeating, especially as it adds much much more to the conversation than the current combined mental-output, in the form of unwittingly hilarious comical-utterances, of the local Clown Posse, Foxy and Rufie

b, you can't do a post on what is occurring in Syria without mentioning the fact that Kurdistan is in the process of being created.

The "Kurds", you claim, want to be a part of Syria are not the Kurds forming Kurdistan-

Ignoring what is going on with the NATO backed Kurds is like pretending the giant pink elephant isn't in the room.

The Kurds backed by NATO: PKK/YPG are forming cantons, governing them and connecting them into a unified territory as you and I type-

With the assistance of US airstrikes

When one speaks of the Kurds, one has to speak of the heavy duty ties with Israel. Kurdistan, Israel's home away from home
;)

b, there is a giant pink elephant in the room. It can't be ignored.

As for the expansion of airstrikes, it was always the plan. Expanding war on Syria- all this talk of supporting their trainees was just the big distraction.

Posted by: Penny | Aug 4, 2015 1:37:55 PM | 8

It'd be a shame for that to get lost in amongst the local Clown-Posse dreck

Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 6 2015 13:00 utc | 99

I thought we merely had a Confederation of Dunces here who would report this obvious BS story but now that they are doubling down and referencing nutters such as Tarpley I'm beginning to see that we have a pack of Persian Running Dogs practicing the rinse and repeat regime that has become their standard rube-toob performance.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 6 2015 13:44 utc | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.