Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 30, 2015

Pentagon Needs More Money To Counter Chinese Submarine Threat



That the Chinese military comes up with this devious idea demonstrates that we urgently need to marshal new resources to counter this imminent threat.

No longer are the Chinese hiding their submarines in the mountains, woods or bathtubs. No. They found a new hideout for this menace:

“The South China Sea would be a good place to hide Chinese submarines,” said Carl Thayer, a U.S.-born security specialist who has taught at the University of New South Wales and other Australian institutions. The sea floor is thousands of meters deep in places, with underwater canyons where a submarine could easily avoid detection.

Putting submarines below the sea surface to avoid detection is indeed a brilliant idea. How come we did not think of this?

But don't fear. A few hundred billion dollars more for the Navy will be a great first step to counter this Chinese threat.

One or the other presidential candidate will soon make such bolstering of the Navy a core tenet of his or her program.

Posted by b on August 30, 2015 at 8:29 UTC | Permalink


What a stupendously cunning plan that, hiding submarines in the SEA sea. Brilliantly conceived, virgin thinking, conceptually without limitation, a child of doG.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 30 2015 9:22 utc | 1

any nation with this level of strategic thinking is simply too awesome to behold. the only course of action remaining for the US is start beating all those swords into plowshares and send every MIC lobbyist to Peking so they can start the rotting from inside process there.

Posted by: dan of steele | Aug 30 2015 9:33 utc | 2


It is especially important, above all else, everything, to not allow yourself to become sarcastic or sardonic when talking about the US War Department, diverting more than one TRILLION dollars a year, when you add in Homeland Security Department, into the offshore tax havens of Corporate war profiteering billionaires, with more admirals than fighting ships, more generals than tanks, and a vast sycophantic orgyfest of war contractors that now includes 32 'Made in USA' (sic) foreign nations, and national hosts for 800 overseas military bases, all symbiotically mucus-entwined with Great Pentangle Church of Shaytan in the most egregious fraud, waste and abuse, at a full order of magnitude above the Mafiosa.
The Pentagon is the largest Corporation on Earth, DoD/DHS is the largest embodiment in all of human history, greater even than the Pharoahs, whose only function is dispensing Death. and more!

Posted by: NoReply | Aug 30 2015 10:13 utc | 3

This article should really be on Duffel Blog, a series of military themed articles that brush surprisingly close to the truth.

Posted by: Bardi | Aug 30 2015 13:18 utc | 4

Sounds like Rumsfeld's back. More unknown unknowns to come, I guess...

Posted by: hidflect | Aug 30 2015 14:26 utc | 5

Wonderful, a new, "menace of the week", to throw more money at. What a circus. More welfare for the mega-rich.

Posted by: ben | Aug 30 2015 14:42 utc | 6

Your link to the McClatchy story is broken. It should be:

Posted by: Alphabet Hotel | Aug 30 2015 15:15 utc | 7

What next, Russia using the air to hide its airplanes?

Posted by: Captain Cook | Aug 30 2015 16:16 utc | 8

The security "expert" mentions that the ocean is thousands of meters deep with many places for a submarine to hide. He seems to be oblivious to the fact that the maximum collapse depth for military submarines are around 700 meters. Where do they find these military experts?

Posted by: ToivoS | Aug 30 2015 16:44 utc | 9

This is a surprisingly unsophisticated article for a McClatchy reporter to write and get printed. I expect more of them, but who knows what Corporatist powers are working on controlling content at that chain. All major media must bow before the power of the Corporatists and their owners.

Posted by: jawbone | Aug 30 2015 16:50 utc | 10

The geo-strategic context is that from time to time USA feels the duty to react to this and that and one of the fleets parades the the west or to the east of Taiwan. On a smaller scale, US Navy periodically makes joined exercises with South Korean Navy near the shore of North Korea. At least, in the latter case, when a ship is blown up by a torpedo the blame can be put on North Korean, even if some websites like this one disseminate suspicions that it could be "friendly fire".

Detecting submarines is definitely a worthy goal for a military.

One could wonder why the justification was specifying the Chinese threat, rather than, say, North Korean or Russian. And yes, Russians are hostile and crafty, and they DO PLAN to use air to hide fighter planes (stealth technology in their newest models). Concerning Russian submarines, they allegedly have missile-propelled torpedoes with no known countermeasures (damn fast and changing course a few times before hitting the target), so what one should do after discovering them?

In any case, Swedes have the richest tradition in submarine detection, and recently they had a success: they found a Russian submarine that sunk during WWI. 100 years may be a bit too slow during a battle, but at least they found it and their methods may be improved further.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 30 2015 16:51 utc | 11

O my Lord! I read the magnified text, and it is makes more sense and it is more insane than the satirical summary suggests. Namely, this is about spending billions of dollars on the quest to have "first-strike capability". That means wiping out nuclear missiles of the adversary in one fell swoop. One problem is that some adversaries, and one could mention Russia, China and Israel (some advisors of Netanyahu claim a. that they are advisors, b. advocate Samson option), have part of their nuclear missiles on submarines. And submarines can be hidden my moving very quietly and stopping in some spot that is hard to identify. Russia as the officially named adversary is a bit awkward for a number of reasons, one being that it is hard to conceive how "first strike" would avoid several American metropolitan areas being wiped out, but China does not have as many equally dispersed missiles.

Some quotes: "It also has at least three nuclear powered submarines capable of launching ballistic missiles and is planning to add five more" "Since submarines can often avoid detection, they are less vulnerable to a first-strike attack than land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles or nuclear bombers." "United States was easily tracking their submarines in the open ocean. So the Soviets created heavily mined and fortified zones for their subs to operate as close to the United States as possible. One was the White Sea of northwest Russia and the other was in the Sea of Okhotsk, north of Japan"

It deserves a long post to explain why "first-strike capability" is a profoundly stupid idea.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 30 2015 17:19 utc | 12

One reason that "first-strike capability" is a misbegotten idea is that it inherently creates expensive arms race. And one problem is that as China budgeted some money for five new toys (billion or more dollars each) and Russia is in "reduced circumstances", one can bet on China to get. newest technologies. This paste gives an idea:

Known countermeasures are the standard gas-producing decoy units, a holdover from the German Pillenwaffer, sonar jamming, and an ingenious acoustic decoy commonly referred to as the nixie. The nixie is a small torpedo that emulates the sound signature of the parent sub. Once launched, the nixie veers from the submarine’s track at three knots. The emissions coming from the nixie obscures the actual noise generated by the creeping submarine. While the tracking submarine is deceived into tracking and launching on a decoy, the Akula may silently alter course and counterattack. At the very least, a nixie will force the NATO submarine to track multiple targets, uncertain which is the Akula.

However, even more intriguing is the layman’s theory that the newer Russian subs can actually operate at lower sound levels than documented. Learning of the spectacular achievements of US sub quiteness from the Walker revelations (see below), Soviet military doctrine may dictate that all submarines routinely emit a level of noise that exceeds their minimum capability. The theory follows that NATO submarines track, record, and catalogue the Akulas at these artificial sound levels and US naval intelligence may be misled into believing that the profiles represent the best the opposition can do. In the event of actual conflict, doctrine would then direct the Russian submarines to shift into a combat mode of silent running and eliminate the false noise levels, effectively disappearing from NATO’s view. "The submarine versus submarine engagement profile is a lot more complicated than the simple comparison of radiated noise, which is too often used to oversimplify relative effectiveness," a Navy expert said. "Other equally important factors include tactical handling and sonar performance, and even non-acoustic sensors must be taken into account."

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 30 2015 18:06 utc | 13

And the guy is an expert. I wonder how "thinks" a normal "non-specialist" American.

Posted by: Fouché | Aug 30 2015 21:40 utc | 14

Wow, China is using the sea to hide its submarines?

Next thing you know, China may be using the air to hide its fighter jets, outer space to hide its spy satellites and the general public to hide its soldiers!

Posted by: Jen | Aug 30 2015 23:09 utc | 15

I enjoyed the general snarking on the silly headline. But...accurate or not, the strategic significance of the South China Sea as nuclear submarine nest is the final fallback for US strategists to justify the US presence down there after the other excuses (Freedom of Navigation, etc.) falter. Not surprised to see Carl Thayer endorse the idea, since he is extremely keen to see US inject itself into scs disputes on behalf of PH & VN & the submarine excuse is difficult to refute because "national security" "classified info" etc etc. I wrote about it here

Posted by: China Hand | Aug 30 2015 23:41 utc | 16

Typically defense reporters don't know the difference between mortars and torpedoes. They are in the unfortunate position of having to believe everything they are told.

Posted by: Secret agent | Aug 30 2015 23:55 utc | 17

BTW this story first appeared over at Chinamatters where the story line says that the reason the U.S. And Japan are stirring up trouble in the South China Sea is to make trouble for the Chinese sub base in Hainan island.

This article reports the Chinese strategic subs like the South China Sea because it is SHALLOW and therefore easy to hide there.

Posted by: Secret agent | Aug 31 2015 0:00 utc | 18

headlines in paper's never properly articulate, but this one is funny - i will give you that..

@16 china hand.. thanks for sharing the article you wrote.. good stuff... in some ways it is even more funny with regard to the usa official quote "Assistant Secretary of State Danny Russel "We are not neutral when it comes to adherence to international law. We will come down forcefully on the side of the rules."

when has that ever happened, expect in the deep past or someone's imagination?

Posted by: james | Aug 31 2015 0:36 utc | 19

*china is militarising the scs* !!!


Posted by: denk | Aug 31 2015 2:45 utc | 20

missile-propelled torpedoes
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 30, 2015 12:51:35 PM | 11

That should be rocket-propelled torpedoes (circa 350km/hr for a few minutes).
Iran and everyone else who wants them ('West' & 'East') already has them.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 31 2015 3:09 utc | 22

I can't help wondering why the Yankees bothered publishing such a half-baked non-story. I suspect they'll talk about any and every stupid idea the spin-tankers can dream up to avoid citizens asking embarrassing questions about the Top Secret TPP.
Non-issue talking points (which are barely, or not, worth talking about) are being floated everywhere in the West. Last week in Oz the Australian equivalent of Homeland Security, announced a Random Visa Check on the streets of Melbourne. The initial announcement implied that Racial Profiling would play a part in the scheme. There was such a flood of protesters in the CBD that it was cancelled before it began and there was an almost-apology from that traitorous freak, PM Tony Abbott - who also just happens to be the Clown Prince of Secrecy for the TPP "negotiations".

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 31 2015 3:38 utc | 23

The author of this piece is STUART LEAVENWORTH who used to write for the Sacramento Bee. He was well known as one of their stupidest reporters. Good to see him gain a well deserved international reputation.

Posted by: ToivoS | Aug 31 2015 4:25 utc | 24

msm bullhorn
*u.s. to solidify [sic] defence [sic] in scs*

since when has murcunt *defence* perimeter pushed to china's doorstep ?

oh i almost forget, it has been so ever since
invasion of tibet in 1903, ?
or was it the burning of yuan ming yuan, ?
or the eight nations alliance rape of beijing, ?
opium war ?

Posted by: denk | Aug 31 2015 5:05 utc | 25

Ah, but at a time when the politicians all have their undies in a twist over the Iran nuclear deal, our President and many in Congress are hell bent on "upgrading" our nuclear arsenal at a cost of a cool trillion dollars. I went to a meet and greet with our new US Senator last week to challenge him on why so many in Congress, particularly in his party are so opposed to the Iran nuclear deal. While he addressed it, one of the other questioners, a retired military guy wanted to know what WE are going to do about building the missal defense shield for Europe. This shit never ends.

Posted by: Lanny V Stricherz | Aug 31 2015 5:37 utc | 26

where are the yanks?

the murcunts are so good at organising rev all over the world, where are these *king makers* when u need them home ?
oops, too bad there aint no murcunt embassy in washington dc hehehehe

everything in the land of the *free* is fake,
even their *occupy central* is a dog n pony circus show !

Posted by: denk | Aug 31 2015 7:59 utc | 27

Posted by: denk | Aug 31, 2015 3:59:06 AM | 27

If you're rubbishing #Occupy try not to forget that it indelibly imprinted the concept of a rapacious 1% into the minds and lexicons of Humanity.
1% used to be a math term.
Now it's a name for greedy, manipulative, amoral assholes.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 31 2015 14:23 utc | 28

Talking about greedy rapacious amoral assholes (Vital To Prosperity & Wellbeing), 4 Corners whacked 7-11 Australia for paying its Foreign Student workforce $10 to $12/hr vs a statutory minimum of $24-00. Foreign Student Visas allow them to work a maximum of 20 hrs/week and they can be deported if they exceed that maximum. Clever 7-11 knows $10 x 20hrs isn't enough money to survive so they encourage them to work 40 - 60 hrs/week and cook the books to equate the diminished pay rate to 20hrs of work per week.
Then they blackmail them with the threat of exposure and deportation.
The 7-11 franchise in Oz is privately owned by a billionaire couple with "substantial property and investment interests" and makes $140 million profit per year. The franchise agreement gives 7-11 57% of net profit and the franchisee 43%. 43% makes it difficult for franchisees to pay legal wages and turn a profit. There are about 640 7-11 stores in Oz.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 31 2015 14:58 utc | 29

Whenever the "mainstream media" plays the "defense" card your garden variety american instantaneously drops their pants and bends over to reveal a pooched open mcrib scented anus. But this time, gobbling up social security, education and even the national power and water grids combined isn't going to stem the sucktide from lapping at the american military-industrial complex. The US has war mongered itself into insolvency just as Eisenhower predicted and all the hallucinatory scare mongering in the world isn't going to change that.

Posted by: Some Guy | Aug 31 2015 19:17 utc | 30

What I found NOT reported my the Western media this past week was the almost two weeks of joint China/Russia air, sea and land military maneuvers that are going on.

Is the global plutocratic run American empire willing to risk mutually assured destruction to maintain private finance control? I shudder to think that I may now live long enough to know the answer to that question and it isn't what I would like.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 1 2015 1:13 utc | 31

actually i meant *occupy warstreet*,

by now it should be common knowldge that
the wot is a fraud,
every *terrorists plot* in murkka is a ff,
*arab spring* , hk *occupy central* etc were made in usa,
*occupy warstreet* was mostly likely a globalist psyop....

like i say, murkka = land of the fake.

Posted by: denk | Sep 1 2015 3:30 utc | 32

the above is for
Hoarsewhisperer 28

Posted by: denk | Sep 1 2015 3:46 utc | 33

Posted by: Some Guy | Aug 31, 2015 3:17:58 PM | 30

...50% of which (minus bribes) is pure profit.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 1 2015 4:18 utc | 34

the above is for Hoarsewhisperer 28
Posted by: denk | Aug 31, 2015 11:46:36 PM | 33

Thanks. I wasn't sure what you meant.
But I did begin with IF :-)

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 1 2015 4:29 utc | 35

Hoarsewhisperer 35

from jimstone...

the sobs have started ww3
(and mum is the word)
*There was a major explosion in Dongying China. This would be the third explosion. This one was as bad as the huge one at Tianjin and was felt 50 KM away. Of extreme interest here: The Tianjin blast happened at 11:30 PM. This blast happened at 11:28 PM. These blasts happened within two minutes of each other on the clock. So I am calling it, once is an accident, twice is coincidence and three times is enemy action, and with the subtle message being delivered which is: same time of night so you over there in China know this was US, and no accident. I have no doubt this is aggression against China.*

Posted by: denk | Sep 1 2015 17:15 utc | 36

"...a US-born security specialist..." I'm still giggling, that's terrorism against my diaphragm!

Posted by: slirs | Sep 1 2015 19:26 utc | 37

Posted by: denk | Sep 1, 2015 1:15:12 PM | 36>

China has layers of bureaucracy which would make India green with envy.
They'll find out exactly how, why and what happened and will then say something and do something. They've been aware of US/UK Imperial Ambitions, and methods, for at least one hundred years.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 2 2015 14:57 utc | 38

If China's disaster investigation seems a bit too slow (to people who've never investigated anything) then one can draw comfort from the fact that AmeriKKKa's Friends of Ukraine('s Putch Govt) have had more than a year to "investigate" an open and shut jetliner shootdown and are no closer to publishing their "findings" than they were the day after it happened.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 2 2015 15:23 utc | 39

another cunt accuse china of *militarising the scs* hehehe

Posted by: denk | Sep 4 2015 15:10 utc | 40

@ 40.
Good catch! Two things you can be certain of re the Right-Wing Ideological Sewer known as the Australian Govt.
If there's nothing to say, someone in the Govt will say it.
If there's something stupid to say PM Abbott will say it himself. Twice (at least).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 4 2015 16:01 utc | 41

Hoarsewhisperer 41

next stop....syria ?

Posted by: denk | Sep 4 2015 16:19 utc | 42

Hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

Posted by: William Rood | Sep 5 2015 3:09 utc | 43

Posted by: denk | Sep 4, 2015 12:19:20 PM | 42

Yep. And it's official, as of today.
This par, from the (excellent) ICH article, encapsulates the rampant cretinism I was whining about at #41, which infects absolutely every thing they do.

In a recent interview, Abbott illustrated his argument for expanding Australia’s airstrikes against IS: "Whether it's operating in Iraq or Syria it is an absolutely evil movement and in the end, when they don't respect the border, the question is why should we?"

As you can imagine, most of Oz's senior politicians are "Good friends of Israel" (and parcels of non-sequential banknotes and Swiss bank accounts).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 5 2015 3:28 utc | 44

The only useful thing that has come out of the Fake War on Terra is that it has (all but) legalised spontaneous extra-judicial murder, whether deliberate or accidental. That will eventually become a handy tool for anyone and everyone (to whom it seemed like a good idea at the time).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 5 2015 4:05 utc | 45

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