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August 26, 2015
Open Thread 2015-32
News & views …
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A touching piece from Chris Hedges Posted by: Jack Smith | Aug 26 2015 17:51 utc | 1 Thanks for the link Jack. Chris Hedges is a giant in the world of Caring about humanity. Posted by: ben | Aug 26 2015 18:49 utc | 2 Chris Hedges … has … worked for The Christian Science Monitor, National Public Radio, The Dallas Morning News and The New York Times …for 15 years. Posted by: Some Guy | Aug 26 2015 19:00 utc | 3 @3 some guy.. i get your point, but to suggest guilt by association seems extreme to me.. true those news outlets have shown themselves for what they are, but that is like saying if a person if from the usa, i don’t want to know about anything they have to say, lol.. i think people need to be viewed individually as opposed to by association only is what i am trying to say. Posted by: james | Aug 26 2015 19:24 utc | 4 @Some Guy #3 Posted by: Jack Smith | Aug 26 2015 20:03 utc | 5 Chris Hedges is a giant in the world of Caring about humanity. Posted by: Blockquote | Aug 26 2015 20:06 utc | 6 Have a few of the know-it-all-haters migrated over from the Zero hedge blog today ??!? Posted by: Cracklier | Aug 26 2015 22:56 utc | 9 Chris Hedges, as the Los Angeles Press Club describes him, is a “Champion of the 99 % — mortal enemy of the 1%.” So it is no wonder that his poignant, informed and compassionate writings stir such vehemence from the 1% and their fearful minions. A man of high integrity, a very rare commodity in journalism today. Posted by: juannie | Aug 27 2015 0:13 utc | 10 I think Philip K. Dick is one of the most important writers/philosophers America has ever produced. I haven’t delved too deep into the fantastic life and oracular work of Philip K. Dick, but I think the opening is a good tease:
for what it’s worth, PKD got popular in France long before Hollywood figured it out. I think that speaks well of his work. Posted by: lizard | Aug 27 2015 1:41 utc | 13 Well, if you don’t like Hedges preaching you can still enjoy his interviews, like Hedges and Wolin : Can Capitalism and Democracy Coexist? I had never heard of Sheldon Wolin before Hedges mentioned his name and work in one of his columns. I guess I had read Inverted Totalitarianism, but the author’s name was unfamiliar. Posted by: jfl | Aug 27 2015 2:17 utc | 14 @ 13: “Of course it’s always the ideas being discussed and not the persona discussing.” Posted by: ben | Aug 27 2015 3:47 utc | 16 Talking about what passes for journalism (and that popular oxymoron Investigative Journalism) these days, there’s a 2015 hit-piece doco on Putin, concocted by Dateline (USA) called Putin’s Way which I recommend to any student of Official, but idiotic, claptrap. Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 27 2015 3:59 utc | 17 From the Saker on the Iran nuke deal:http://thesaker.is/iran-nuclear-deal-the-islamic-republic-sticks-to-its-guns/ Posted by: ben | Aug 27 2015 4:22 utc | 18 The US/EU/NATO together deal death, devastation, and destruction to Syria and the Syrians and then, when the Syrians have become refugees fleeing the US/EU/NAT DD&D … Hungary to Deploy ‘Border Hunters’ Against Refugees Fleeing War
It’s not just Hungary, of course, Arson suspected in fire at planned refugee shelter in Germany
And in Italy, and in Greece, … . The people … ok, the governments … who created the situation with their institutionalized program of DD&D now treat the results of their program, their very own victims, as the problem. Yet the European people remain as ‘unconcious’ as we Americans are of the results of their governments’ actions. And just as doggedly irresponsible. Posted by: jfl | Aug 27 2015 4:32 utc | 19 Hey America, you think your vote counts? Posted by: ben | Aug 27 2015 4:57 utc | 22 I consider folks like Chris Hedges similar to Paul Krugman. I call them Border Routers and their positions work similarly to the network type. Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2015 5:57 utc | 23 chris hedges seems to have hit a nerve here in the comment section.. i don’t really know the man or what his position is, but if the messenger looks a certain way, or comes inside of some msm outlet – does that mean we have to shoot him? why not just base it on what he did or didn’t say as opposed to the package he came in? Posted by: james | Aug 27 2015 6:31 utc | 24 “For Terry, simple human kindness, divorced from creeds or freed from ideology or religious doctrine, kindness that does not ask if the recipient deserves this kindness…” Posted by: Jack Smith | Aug 27 2015 6:55 utc | 25 I’m curious what y’all think of this – Posted by: Kyle Pearson | Aug 27 2015 7:39 utc | 26 “It is obvious that Bernie Sanders functions as the political ‘sheepdog’ of the 2016 presidential election. The sheepdog makes certain that otherwise disillusioned Democrats are energized enough to stay in line and support the eventual candidate, in this case Hillary Clinton.” Posted by: fairleft | Aug 27 2015 9:33 utc | 27 25 Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 27 2015 10:31 utc | 28 @ 13: “Of course it’s always the ideas being discussed and not the persona discussing.” Posted by: BLOCKQUOTE | Aug 27 2015 10:44 utc | 29 @ #25. Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 27 2015 13:36 utc | 30 Posted by: fairleft | Aug 27, 2015 5:33:21 AM | 26
Because they’ve been played like a fiddle many times before.
Strawman. Your focus on ‘enthusiasm’ is misleading. Enthusiasm for Sanders blocks alternatives. He now ‘owns’ that space. The establishment Democrat may not get the ‘enthusiasm’ but will be the beneficiary of many of those votes.
No, they won’t because:
(1) Damages their credibility? You seem to believe that their theory makes no sense. But it does.
Of course the Democrats will declare the race to be close and call upon Sanders supporters to back the mainstream candidate because otherwise the batshit crazy, reactionary republican will win(!!). Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2015 14:35 utc | 31 “Sibel Edmonds: ISIS Is US. As the US prepares a military coup in Turkey.” Posted by: Willy2 | Aug 27 2015 14:46 utc | 32 Commentary: U.S. cannot dodge EU refugee crisis
First, the US had its European Unit ‘sanction’ itself to hurt Russia. Posted by: jfl | Aug 27 2015 15:11 utc | 33 @26 Posted by: Martin Finnucane | Aug 27 2015 16:05 utc | 34 jfl@33.. the europeans have their head up usa’s ass.. not sure if they are capable of getting it unstuck any time soon.. Posted by: james | Aug 27 2015 19:08 utc | 35 @ jfl | Aug 26, 2015 10:17:19 PM | 14
✔✔✔ Posted by: MRW | Aug 27 2015 19:47 utc | 36 In my comment @34, I cited comment 26, when it should have been comment 27 (fairleft). Posted by: Martin Finnucane | Aug 27 2015 20:00 utc | 37 Chris Hedges calls for peaceful revolution. He hopes that people will amass in the thousands in peaceful protest. He feels that they may do this if and when they feel sufficient personal discomfort. Posted by: fast freddy | Aug 27 2015 23:00 utc | 38 First, the US had its European Unit ‘sanction’ itself to hurt Russia. Posted by: fast freddy | Aug 27 2015 23:04 utc | 39 More Ukraine polling from April 2014 – even in the West of Ukraine, just shy of 50% of Ukrainians in that extremely pro-Western, pro-EU region believe the country should NOT join NATO. This is less than two months after the EuroMaidan took place, basically at the height of nationalist feeling. And Ukrainians even in the west of the country felt that NATO membership was not desirable (in the rest of the country, anti-NATO sentiment ran anywhere between 60% to 90% (excluding Crimea). I have to agree w/ Hoarsewhisperer on the nukes (including, though, the thank you for the pics – the drovne vids were very cool). AP Suing FBI over Fake Story, Journalists Impersonation
Yeah! And for journalists to act as federal agents of disinformation as well. I guess now the excuse’ll be, Posted by: jfl | Aug 28 2015 8:26 utc | 42 Fort Russ has a report of intensified shelling in the Donbas.
And what is Pravyi Sektor doing over their summer vacation? Right Sector Destroys Memorial Plaque for Slain Journalist, Puts up One for His Murderers. Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 28 2015 12:15 utc | 43 Chipnik @ 44: Thanks for the article. Explains totally, why, ” it’s just business, get over it,” resonates. Posted by: ben | Aug 28 2015 13:53 utc | 45 Martin Finnucane @34 & Jackrabbit @31: Neither of you has dealt with my main ideas, but here are some comments …
Basically, you’re talking about Kucinich. I agree, he was a classic sheepdog, indicated by the bowl haircut. The rhetorical meaning of that haircut was “I don’t want to win, I’d rather appeal to quirky left Democrats who’ll flip over to Barack as soon as I lose.” But Bernie ain’t Kucinich. Bernie is leading Hillary in New Hampshire 6 months prior to that primary. Repeat: Bernie is leading Hillary in New Hampshire. Kucinich never led anything against anyone except maybe in Iowa at one point, but then he decided to throw that vote.
I’m not misleading when I’m responding directly to the quote, which talks about transferring “energized” Sanders supporters over to Hillary. You are introducing an idea I didn’t directly discuss, that Sanders support blocks alternatives. That’s of course why I noted that the end of Sanders, if he loses, will happen in early March. Specifically March 1, Super Tuesday, eight months before the November election, which is specifically designed to enshrine the big-money candidate and destroy a low-money candidate like Bernie.
1) No, based on Super Tuesday (March 1) and the election (November 8), Bernie is scheduled to be destroyed 8 months and 8 days prior to the election. Posted by: fairleft | Aug 28 2015 14:38 utc | 46 @ 46: Good post. IMO, the challenge is to get relevant issues out to the Sheeple. Not an easy task, with the Corporate Empire’s chokehold on Media. Posted by: ben | Aug 28 2015 14:56 utc | 47 The ‘migrant’ crisis has caught the attention of the media. It is true that the nos. have increased, but not everywhere. Posted by: Noirette | Aug 28 2015 17:54 utc | 48 Posted by: fairleft | Aug 28, 2015 10:38:52 AM | 46 Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 28 2015 17:58 utc | 49 @ 46: Good post. IMO, the challenge is to get relevant issues out to the Sheeple. Not an easy task, with the Corporate Empire’s chokehold on Media.Bread and Circus, almost always trump information. Posted by: blockquote | Aug 28 2015 18:36 utc | 50 Thanx for all the info doods but I’d still rather read Infoshop or Counterpunch or this site or even the WSWS than the Nation. Liberals give me the willies. Posted by: Some Guy | Aug 28 2015 19:11 utc | 51 Jackrabbit @49:
Yeah, okay, right. We see the same done by Labour right-wingers against Jeremy Corbyn. So what? (Do you think Corbyn is a sheepdog?) Yes, it’s hard now resisting big corporate money, and it will be hard every step. The two questions are, is it impossible to overcome big corporate money and is it worth it to try rather than assume it’s impossible?
Well, maybe, maybe not. It doesn’t seem on the surface the Republican ‘insiders’ have all that much control, considering the 17-candidate nomination process filled with loony right candidates. And insiders, even if they have control in general, might not be able to change candidates so late in the nomination process. But ultimately, again, yes it would be and will be hard every step of the way when you’re battling big money. What alternative do you suggest?
No.
Yes. Yes. Yes. I have no idea what you’re getting at with this. Posted by: fairleft | Aug 28 2015 19:42 utc | 52 @48 Noirette Posted by: jfl | Aug 28 2015 22:01 utc | 53 @48 Noirette Posted by: jfl | Aug 28 2015 22:43 utc | 54 With Bernie Sanders as bait, troll phishing is tooooo easy. Posted by: ben | Aug 29 2015 0:31 utc | 55 Bernie Sanders is the new hopium for lesser-evil Democrat apologists queasy over Hillary. criticizing Sanders got me booted from the “progressive” blog that I used to contribute to. Posted by: lizard | Aug 29 2015 1:09 utc | 57 @fairleft
I think the mood of the country is such that many are ready to support a candidate or movement that is anti-establishment. Sanders loyalty to the democrats means that he will try to channel the discontented back into the Democratic fold. That is why he is described as a sheepdog. Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 29 2015 1:32 utc | 58 70 people found suffocated dead in a truck after a failed smuggling op thru Hungary.. I can’t process the magnitude of such an absurd tragedy Posted by: aaaaa | Aug 29 2015 1:32 utc | 59 Here’s an interesting contribution from Counterpunch. It is putatively on Trump, but Sanders and a few larger issues come up as well.
Plenty more good stuff, on Syriza and The Donald’s (limited) prospects — too sleazy in too many areas. Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 29 2015 3:05 utc | 60 @ 58: “I think the mood of the country is such that many are ready to support a candidate or movement that is anti-establishment. Sanders loyalty to the democrats means that he will try to channel the discontented back into the Democratic fold. That is why he is described as a sheepdog.” Posted by: ben | Aug 29 2015 4:11 utc | 61 rm @ 60: Thanks for the link. This 2016 election will be fun and interesting. Probably more theater than substance. IMO, the empire and their minions, will not permit any real change. Posted by: ben | Aug 29 2015 4:30 utc | 62 @fairleft
Pandering to voters might be evidence except that of these voters would know that it is not authentic. That would defeat the purpose of a ‘sheepdog’.
This is why is has been called a sheepdog. His loyalty is to the Democratic Party, not the cause – despite his life-long socialism and his age (74). Many would be thinking of retirement and legacy at his age, not loyalty to a Party that has veered to the right during his lifetime. But he enjoys many perks as a Democrat, like being on important committees. He is a ranking member on the Senate Budget Committee (as of January 2015!). Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 29 2015 4:49 utc | 63 Someone named Sara Hirschorn has had a look at just who the takfiri Jews in the West Bank really are : they’re Americans …
… well, they’re certainly ‘over represented’, anyway. Interesting. Posted by: jfl | Aug 29 2015 14:18 utc | 64 ben at 62 — Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 29 2015 14:32 utc | 65 Yes jfl (at 53) this refugee story is horrible, I wasn’t trying to make light of it as you understood. I was just pointing out (and ranting) that the numbers are no problem, I mean for Cripes sake, CH (only 8 million pop..) right now has about maybe 15K empty jobs – and I’m not talking picking vegetables, but nurse, tech type, IT, IT, hotel manager, etc. Well last week CH decided to take 8K Syrians. Posted by: Noirette | Aug 29 2015 15:29 utc | 66 re 66
You are right that the French only talk about the Christians. Laicisation hasn’t got far in the policy. Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 29 2015 21:03 utc | 67 About the flows of human beings, i mean, the Europeans you think would discover that when you set fire to your neighborhood your own house might get burned. The cynic, i suppose, might say that such dislocations only serve the purposes of the very rich in Europe who would be pleased to have an underclass they can prey on and use as a threat against their native working class. God knows they will hardly cone in contact with this developing undercaste. @66, @77 Noirette, guest77 Posted by: jfl | Aug 30 2015 8:23 utc | 69 Rufus @ 65 Posted by: Ballast | Aug 30 2015 8:48 utc | 70 jackrabbit @58:
You realize you’re completely off-topic here? Because I was discussing whether or not Bernie is a sheepdog, I was pointing out that supporting Sanders will not block people from turning to a third party EIGHT months before the election, if that’s what they want to do. Anyway, if Sanders’ supporters are stupid sheep who can easily be led to the slaughter, why even strategize or discuss at all? And why have a sheepdog, just have the wolf come by and talk nice.
You didn’t seem to get my effort to help out your side of the argument. It’s not about pandering, it’s about talking the language of American voters. When most Americans hear ‘socialist’ they think Soviet Union and government ownership of nearly all property. If Sanders simply called himself a ‘social democrat’ — which is what he in fact is within the American discourse/language — he wouldn’t lose votes over being a ‘socialist’. Whenever a leftist loses votes over something like semantics, I get suspicious he/she might be a sheepdog. Posted by: fairleft | Aug 30 2015 9:31 utc | 71 Laguerre at 67, I agree 100% and it is the case in CH as well, exactly the same, the lower bureaucracy, etc. I didn’t say that Muslims are treated ‘worse’, but that Iraqis were, and you yourself point out your Syrian friends have done not too badly (presumably independent of religion), as is the case here too (CH just accepted 8K of them.) I have some Syrian students all doing great…but not one single person from Iraq, ever, since food-for-oil. I guess my maybe too ‘ranty’ posts can be read in different ways…. Posted by: Noirette | Aug 30 2015 10:58 utc | 72 Ballast at 70 — Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 30 2015 15:41 utc | 73 re 72
Language thing, I think. Iraqis prefer English-speaking countries, whereas Syrians can get on with French. Yes, I’ve got two or three Iraqis. Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 30 2015 18:13 utc | 74 Posted by: fairleft | Aug 30, 2015 5:31:51 AM | 71 Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 30 2015 19:32 utc | 75 chipnik 28 Posted by: denk | Aug 31 2015 3:04 utc | 76 Good piece by Ilargi at theautomaticearth–
Throw in the Ukraine and you have to wonder if it’s all going according to plan. Posted by: Nana 2007 | Aug 31 2015 14:36 utc | 77 Interesting how The Independent newspaper frames responsibility for the violence in Ukraine today. Posted by: Pat Bateman | Aug 31 2015 17:49 utc | 78 further to 78 — Posted by: rufus magister | Aug 31 2015 23:30 utc | 79 @72 Noirette, @94 Laguerre
Has Hedges just made all this up? Or does it depend upon which ‘neighborhood’ in Europe you live in? Somebody – Sep 1, 2015 6:59:28 AM | 46 – has drug up all the old news on Russia-Turkey on the rocks, refugees, and a coalition of the willing to do in Syria on the netanyahoo thread, I wonder if Merkel/Ursula will take the opportunity to do-in Greece at the same time? Posted by: jfl | Sep 1 2015 12:58 utc | 80 Posted by: jfl | Sep 1, 2015 8:58:44 AM | 80 Posted by: somebody | Sep 1 2015 13:24 utc | 81 Posted by: Noirette | Aug 28, 2015 1:54:17 PM | 48 Posted by: somebody | Sep 1 2015 13:40 utc | 82 Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 30, 2015 3:32:53 PM | 75 Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2015 14:43 utc | 83 Great article on Obama’s dishonesty, not to mention the balls out insanity of the “Defense” Industry: Posted by: ruralito | Sep 2 2015 19:06 utc | 84 @84 ruralito Posted by: jfl | Sep 2 2015 23:46 utc | 85 A couple of pictures of Obama’s Strange Fruit … An orphan sleeping between his parents’ graves. At least he is still alive. I guess that’s a ‘blessing’? A young boy’s body washed up on a beach in Turkey. Posted by: jfl | Sep 3 2015 9:18 utc | 86 32 killed in US drone strike in eastern Afghanistan
The Nobel Peace Prize Laureate’s endless sequence of more or less random assassinations continues. Makes you proud to be an American, doesn’t it – or jealous if you’re not? How many other countries have a Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for a president! War is Peace. And now back to our regularly scheduled programing.
Strelkov believes that the assault must begin by late Sept., and will probably occur while Putin is in NYC for the UNGA.
Posted by: rufus magister | Sep 4 2015 6:24 utc | 88 Could this actually be about to happen? Posted by: Pat Bateman | Sep 4 2015 10:03 utc | 89 Putin: Syria’s Assad Ready to Hold Snap Election, Share Power
Hmmm … I imagine he has spoken to all the people he says he has … is Europe scared enough by the ‘millions of refugees’ to give peace a chance? Putin: Syria’s Assad Ready to Hold Snap Election, Share Power
Hmmm … I imagine he has spoken to all the people he says he has … is Europe scared enough by the ‘millions of refugees’ to give peace a chance? Posted by: jfl | Sep 4 2015 12:38 utc | 91 P. Bateman at 89 – Posted by: rufus magister | Sep 5 2015 4:17 utc | 92 One paragraph in the Saker’s recount of the parade in Beijing stood out …
It’s hard to feel solidarity with someone named Park from South Korea, but it is easy to feel solidarity with the Koreans, North and South. Great to see anyone standing up to the Wicked Witches of the West. It would be great if China could help broker a reunited Korea. Typepad censored the link to the Saker’s map of who showed and how strongly in Beijing. Lots on no-shows in Europe, but heads of state in Croatia, Serbia, and the Czech Republic showed up, the head of the legislature from Poland, and England, Netherlands, France and Italy all sent special envoys, interesting only Germany showing true-blue with its ambassador only. ‘UK parliament to vote on air raids against Daesh in Syria’
It used to be the anti-Democrat Party in Thailand that tried to emulate the Tories, but now it’s the Tories in the UK emulating the military dictatorship in Thailand. No vote if the British electorate vote in the ‘wrong’ people. U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz backs Iran nuclear deal Posted by: sql | Sep 6 2015 17:47 utc | 96 DWS’ backing the deal means that – independent of the ‘goodness’ or ‘badness’ of the deal itself – the TNCs in the US have decided that they want a shot at the Iranian economic action they anticipate coming into play, the US’ histrionics regardless. Trump has said he’d back the deal as POTUS, which would be the traditional Republicrat position. DWS and the Donald agree not to fly in the face of international decisions they cannot control, but to try to benefit from them rather than shoot off their own feet … that is benefit and not shoot off the feet of their backers. Posted by: jfl | Sep 6 2015 20:55 utc | 97 |
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