Netanyahoo Gives Up On Iran Deal Opposition
Netanyahoo concedes that he lost the fight against Obama:
Israel is not opposed to an Iranian nuclear program that is civilian in nature, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told his Italian counterpart, Matteo Renzi, during a visit to Florence on Saturday.
The Iranian nuclear program is of course exclusively civilian in nature:
United States intelligence community and its allies, including Israel, have long assessed that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program and, even in the abstract, that its leadership has not made any decision to build nuclear weapons, despite the technical capacity to do so inherent in having a functional nuclear energy program.
Netanyahoo and anyone else of relevance knows this. When he no longer opposes a civilian nuclear program in Iran he has nothing left to complain about the agreement which six world powers negotiated with Iran.
The Israel lobby attack against the Iran agreement did not have the results Natanyahoo had hoped for. It was a major bust. Some of his followers in the Democratic Party, like Senator Schumer and Democratic National Committee Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, will probably loose their leadership positions for their open stand against the Democratic president on this issue. Good.
For a while the lobby's loss may dampen the influence Israel has over U.S. foreign policy. But in a year or two the Iran deal will be out of the news headlines and the lobby will have spent enough money to recuperate its influence.
Posted by b on August 31, 2015 at 12:49 UTC | Permalink
I see that I made one seriously confusing sentence with some dropped endings and commas. Who has "nothing to show": a hapless candidate or the Lobby? I guess, both.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 31 2015 13:14 utc | 2
"The Iranian nuclear program is of course exclusively civilian in nature"
Ahh, so that's why they have been developing and building ICBM's? Go figure...
Posted by: zed | Aug 31 2015 13:15 utc | 3
"But in a year or two the Iran deal will be out of the news headlines and the lobby will have spent enough money to recuperate its influence."
Hopefully the Israeli's will recover their sanity and send the Likud party to the trash can, where it belongs.
Posted by: Bardi | Aug 31 2015 13:28 utc | 4
Iran deal creates a wonderful opportunity for US and Israel (US shares intel with Israel) to learn precise GPS coordinates plus general and specific logistics regarding every installation and much more.
Posted by: fast freddy | Aug 31 2015 13:33 utc | 5
Well, it ain't over till the fat lady sings. I hope the lobby is beaten, though. I hope all the 5th column in the Congress are beaten as well. But I won't believe it's over till the Lobby has lain flat on its back with a stake through its heart for a good fortnight, after the vote.
Posted by: jfl | Aug 31 2015 13:34 utc | 6
@3 And what Iranian ICBM would that be, zed?
As far as I am aware the only public announcement of an "Iranian ICBM" was that burped out with great flatulence by Benjamin Netanyahu way back in 1997.
I gather that even he doesn't repeat that fairy tale.
Or are you thinking of something else?
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 31 2015 13:52 utc | 7
8;good one!The Zionist never sleep,and to think the monsters are giving up is an error.
The British MSM attacks Corbyn over OBL trial statements.sheesh.
And its not Likud,4,its both Israeli parties culpable for the disaster that is Zion.Uh,who are the only nation to benefit from 9-11?Freaking Israel,which should lead to some awakening from their slumber of BS.
Posted by: dahoit | Aug 31 2015 15:27 utc | 9
@7, this missile for example:
http://aviationweek.com/defense/iran-produces-first-long-range-missile
http://thediplomat.com/2015/03/irans-fancy-new-long-range-missile-can-strike-israel/
http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/irans-ballistic-missile-program
You don't invest billions into building these just to haul around a few kg of TNT.
And all those centrifuges (look at the timetable and "official" count, here for example: http://www.iranwatch.org/our-publications/articles-reports/irans-nuclear-timetable) are also not just for fun. Also the choice of reactor type is quite telling, more dangerous and prone to meltdowns but spitting out weapon-grade material as a by-product.
All Israel-related issues aside, Iran is a country oppressed by a crazy, medieval islamo-fascist dictatorship with "big" plans, who killed many Iranians, run a huge prison network full of "dissidents" and have the highest execution rate per capita in the world (289 executions last year according to their official numbers). Never forget those facts, as such - unrelated to the rest of the discussion. And then tell me, would you, personally, let someone like that unobserved while he develops ICBM's and runs 15+k centrifuges, while all the time shouting "death to infidels", including US and Europe? Seriously?
Posted by: zed | Aug 31 2015 16:05 utc | 10
#10 The missiles described in that Aviation Week article are NOT ICBMs. You don't know what you are talking about.
Posted by: ToivoS | Aug 31 2015 16:20 utc | 11
Netanyahu is a piece of shit. But grow up and spell the man's name right. Shit like this makes it real hard to take you seriously.
Posted by: sdfgvb | Aug 31 2015 16:45 utc | 12
As expected everyone is falling into line to support the Iran deal because the spoils will be shared or inducements will be offered.
Israel will get more aircraft for their 'defense' and the Saudis will get Russian help with their Nuke program that this new deal will serve as a template for. The Saudis will demand the same capabilities as Iran maintains and both will be capable of Bomb production after a short breakout period.
The rest of this show is pure theatre so everyone has their 15 minutes of airtime before the money begins to flow.
Posted by: Wayoutwest | Aug 31 2015 16:47 utc | 13
@ 12
spell his name correctly? And how would that be? Mileikowsky?
Posted by: crone | Aug 31 2015 17:26 utc | 14
I think leftists should admit we were wrong -- like most of us, I said here 9 months ago that I thought the deal would not go through -- and learn a few lessons. As someone above said, it ain't over yet, but it looks like the Israel Lobby will lose and a major shift in Gulf region power -- set in motion by the crazy Neocon/Zionist/Bush invasion of Iraq -- will happen. It can be turned back at a later date, but it is still happening. FWIW, the lessons to learn are mostly good news:
Lesson 1: The Israelis and Zionists are less powerful in DC than we thought.
Lesson 2: 'Western' capitalism led by the US is not a united, all rowing the same direction empire. There's grumbling about and resistance mainly to the burden of a crazy out-of-control Israel, but also (but to a lesser extent) to the knee-jerk and excessively militarist nature of the Western capitalist empire.
Lesson 3: Western capitalism probably has decided that it has alienated too many of the obvious key pieces of a Eurasian capitalist coalition. Not just India but also Iran -- maybe the ambition is for all of south and southeast Asia -- has to be kept on the Western side.
Posted by: fairleft | Aug 31 2015 17:50 utc | 15
They shouldn't lose their leadership - they should lose their heads!
Posted by: slirs | Aug 31 2015 18:19 utc | 16
OT
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34105925
One national guard member has been killed and over 100 injured in violent protests outside Ukraine's parliament, the interior ministry said.
Clashes between nationalists and riot police erupted after MPs gave initial backing to reforms for more autonomy in the rebel-held east.
Some in the crowd lobbed what police said were live grenades at officers protecting parliament.
Protesters led by the populist Radical Party and the ultra-nationalist Svoboda (Freedom) party - who oppose any concession to the Russian-backed separatists - gathered outside parliament early on Monday.
After a rowdy debate, 265 MPs out of 450 backed the first reading of the decentralisation bill, granting more powers to areas of Donetsk and Luhansk.
Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 31 2015 18:21 utc | 18
I said right from the start, it would go thru, with yikes, quotes from Obama way back when, before his first election. Kerry too, since forever, has wanted, nay ardently desired, to bring Iran into the fold. (That went over like a lead balloon..) At one point I had some doubt but still ..over or at least 50%.. etc..
Sure there are the commercial / trade / and more opportunities that everyone has been dying for (incl many Iranis), and it is hard to judge how the momentum was created, or coalesced.
The US (B.O and J.K), pressure from big corps, energy, automotive, banks; sanctions not obeyed; in fact they were declared illegal by the EU court recently after about 7 to 10 years of litigation (that judgment was then subsequently partly overturned), and who was sanctioning US cos. that dealt with Iran? All this melded together. The whole thing was no longer tenable.
Still, it is not done yet, but as some US senator pointed out a few days ago, I have forgotten his name, it will be done with or without the USA. In fact the USA had better deliver soon, and stop being obstructionist, because if it does not, it will lose face, as it will be ignored. (One opinion piece in a CH paper, and what my ‘banker’ (whom i met in a caf and did not ask anything) said. I guess he read the op-ed.) Netanyahu obviously also prefers not to pursue a losing fight. Not that any of it has to do with Iran’s nuclear industry, so there is that. It is a fig-leaf for other deals, event, etc.
Posted by: Noirette | Aug 31 2015 18:25 utc | 19
......events not event. Note I was wrong about Assad (I am less pro-Assad than many here) and I thought he could not last, disagreeing with b, I underestimated the role of Russia, Iran, Assad, others.
Posted by: Noirette | Aug 31 2015 18:45 utc | 20
For a while the lobby's loss may dampen the influence Israel has over U.S. foreign policy.
I wouldn't count on it. But that's not going to stop me from enjoying my schadenfreude while it lasts. Excuse me for a moment ... bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ...
Posted by: Some Guy | Aug 31 2015 19:21 utc | 21
noirette-....So you declared yourself been stupid regard Dr. Al-Assad???
Posted by: sejmon | Aug 31 2015 19:24 utc | 22
#16-slirs-They have just hot air in theirs heads-see Boehner and others RINO's....
Posted by: sejmon | Aug 31 2015 19:30 utc | 23
Netanyahus announcement of being for civilian nuclear power in Iran, is just his fake concession to looking reasonable. As well as playing to that particular audience. He speakth with with forked tongue, as always.
Straight after the lie that he speaks of the 'theory' of Iranian and nuclear power, he lies by saying it's not civilian but its militaristic, thus hyping the non-existent threat level.
He knows that Irans nuclear power is civilian, but does not want a growing powerful state as competition in the region. And I would be shocked by the various thoughtful evil Elites in western countries, that they didn't know the same. In fact many western intelligence agencies know as much.
Posted by: tom | Aug 31 2015 20:26 utc | 24
@zed
"Iran is a country oppressed by a crazy, medieval islamo-fascist dictatorship with "big" plans, who killed many Iranians, run a huge prison network full of "dissidents" and have the highest execution rate per capita in the world (289 executions last year according to their official numbers). Never forget those facts, as such - unrelated to the rest of the discussion. And then tell me, would you, personally, let someone like that unobserved while he develops ICBM's and runs 15+k centrifuges, while all the time shouting "death to infidels", including US and Europe? Seriously?"
Not one sentence of what you say above is correct or substantiated by facts and even a reformist in Iran wouldn't agree with one iota of what you are saying. Instead he would have put it this way:
Iran had a germane revolution 36 years ago which constitute the basis for her current dynamism. Immediately after the Revolution, an unprecedented war was imposed upon the country to overthrow the choice of the Iranian population, with the adversary using all the means necessary to win the war (chemical weapons included), while Iran refused to retaliate in the same manner. The legitimacy of the political system is based on Islam which is the glue sticking together all the parts of the political society. The institution symbolizing this legitimacy is on the way to become more and more formal (the way for ex. the sovereign in the UK became) and any reformist should welcome that trend. The country has a constitution based on the principle of separation of powers, although she hasn't been yet entirely successful in implementing the rule of law, and one might add like many other participatory systems in the world, any reformist should encourage the trend for the respect of the rule of law and back any effort in this direction. Iran's industrial enrichment program and nuclear power generation plans was setup by the previous regime, with the backing of the West, and the country is only following the path opened around 40 years ago. The Iranian Space program is civil in nature but like in any other country developing such industry certain aspect of it are inherently linked to military. The Islamic Republic Human Right records are certainly dismal and need improvement but, first they are not perceived as such by the majority of the population which accept the legitimacy of the system, and second compared to the actions of outside hegemons in the region (West, Israel etc...) and most other regional countries they can be considered negligible.
CONCLUSION: the one time that those "Islamo-fascist" had the means, and the reasons, to use weapons of mass destruction against an enemy which had attacked them and was using wmd against them in a continuous manner, they refrained to do it on the moral ground. While the one exceptional country, as soon as she developed her first nuclear weapon, didn't hesitate to use it, without any moral consideration, against civilians of an enemy country on the verge of surrendering.
Now tell me who will you trust more?
Posted by: ATH | Aug 31 2015 20:37 utc | 25
It seems as though all of the hubbub about Iranian nukes was a lot of dust, smoke and very little combustion. It was timed to distract, intimidate and co-opt nations and public opinion long enough to complete the sectarianization of Iraq and the destruction of Syria.
Not all on the left were wrong, by the way. There were some who noticed that the State Department bought neocon favorite Ahmed Chalabi an opulent headquarters villa in Tehran months before the invasion of Iraq, who noticed that 35 of the 54 faces in Bush's debar tho fixation deck of cards belonged to Shi-i men and women, who noticed the incredible number of Bush officials who were veterans of Iran/Contra and the other arms deals that Reagan did with Israel and Iran and who wondered what all the handwringing about war with Iran was about, when it was clearly secular Arabian that was being targeted.
Posted by: Ibrahimyazeji | Aug 31 2015 21:27 utc | 26
And secular Arabism. Google is correcting(?) my spelling Sorry.
Posted by: Ibrahimyazeji | Aug 31 2015 21:33 utc | 28
@10
I invite everyone to follow those links.
The first two refer to cruise missiles, which most definitely are not ICBMs.
Zed: "You don't invest billions into building these just to haul around a few kg of TNT."
Except, of course, that's exactly what the USA does.
All its cruise missiles are tactical weapons, not a single one carries a nuke warhead.
So every single American cruise missile does nothing more than "haul around a few kg of TNT".
The third link is simply unsubstantiated nonsense, and may as well have been bottom-burped from Netanyahu's nether regions.
Note this: "The Islamic Republic is the only country to develop a 2,000-km missile without first having a nuclear weapons capability."
First thing first: "a 2,000-km missile" is not an ICBM. It isn't even halfway towards being an ICBM.
Second, of course, is the inconvenient fact that Iran hasn't test-fired anything with a 2,000-km range.
Not once.
Not ever.
But I can name one country in the region that does have nuclear-capable ICBMs, and has indeed test-fired one.
I can even give you the date: January 17 2008.
And the launch location: Palmachim Airbase.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 31 2015 22:15 utc | 29
thanks b. and thanks for spelling the jackass's name in a metaphorical way - netan-yahoo - cause this is what he is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzedddddddddddddd braIN..
quote "For a while the lobby's loss may dampen the influence Israel has over U.S. foreign policy." i doubt that very much.. when usa can support israel in it's colonization of all of palestine, except for the open air prison part, you know there isn't a hope in obama hell of any change coming out of trumpland usa..
Posted by: james | Aug 31 2015 22:40 utc | 30
b: " But in a year or two the Iran deal will be out of the news headlines and the lobby will have spent enough money to recuperate its influence."
Won't take a year b, these AIPAC people have deep pockets.
Noirette @ 20: "(I am less pro-Assad than many here) "
Actually, it might be anti-empire and it's minions, that drives support for Assad.
Posted by: ben | Aug 31 2015 22:44 utc | 31
@31 ben - last part.. i think that is it.. it is not that assad is a nice guy, but that the concept of regime change left to the militarily powerful doesn't have much of anything to do with democracy, in spite of the hypocrisy of how it is sold.. the other reason for me is if you look at the result of getting rid of saddam or gadaffi - the after effect is way worse.. and of course it is the millions of innocent people's lives who are destroyed in all of this.. this last sentence has come to represent the usa since vietnam and nothing much has changed except just how morally and ethically bankrupt the usa is.. as for leadership - if you want a bully to lead, i guess it works, but this is what they claim they are getting rid of! far from it!..
Posted by: james | Aug 31 2015 23:48 utc | 32
Oui @ 33 asked:"Is this a true event?"
Haven't a clue, if true, it's big news. IMO, maybe its time the biggest bullies on the block received some push-back. (meaning the empire, and it's hired, modern day Hessians)
Posted by: ben | Sep 1 2015 2:16 utc | 35
Is it a true event (Russia moving pilots and planes to provide direct tactical support for SAA)?
Hard to doubt the sources, since there are from Israel (same words). Just reviewing google hits, I have found out that Russia and Iran decided to "abandon Assad", and it was reported in the ever reliable NBC (on Aug 8). Not only President Tayyip Recep Erdogan quoted Putin (NBC considered that the quote was pulled by Erdogan from his own body) but even ever-prescient American analysts said the same thing!
That said, Merkel expressed regret that Iran does not recognize Israel, and encouraged Iran to constructively engage in Syria combatting ISIS. It is possible that major EU countries are seriously worried that current waves of Syrian refugees are just a beginning. It is hard to shoot them to kill and turn back -- where? It is hard to find social acceptance, especially if the population is suspicious of absorbing numerous Muslim, and may further suspect the presence of Islamist terrorists among the refugees. The only conceivable solution is to have some peace in Syria, and thus a place where the refugees can be peacefully deported. If it takes Iranian-Russian intervention (Russian air force, Iranian boots), so be it. If I were Merkel, I will promise Ukraine to Putin if he manages to have it done. Then again, in the spirit of full disclosure, I am not.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 1 2015 2:46 utc | 36
Whatever went on in the background netanyahoo will have wrung some biggies outta amerika. Netanyahoo likely got what he wants
The real question is will Iranians get what they need?
I've always held high regard for Iranian strategies in dealing with amerika and Israel, but not so much Rouhani who seems to have a similar mindset to barack oblamblam or tony bliar - that is he places personal aggrandisement ahead of the needs of citizens, or loyalty to his culture.
Iran has been under siege for a very long time a siege that has been murderous and cruel yet it also prevented Iran from becoming enmeshed in the quagmire of neoliberal economics. world bank imf etc
That will all go with the passage of this treaty and I simply don't believe Rouhani and crew have the wherewithal (even if they had the will) to withstand the mac truck of corporate hegemony and deceit that is about to smash into Iran at 200mph.
Posted by: Debs is dead | Sep 1 2015 3:08 utc | 37
who will bear remembrance on september the 15 2015.who among the righteous shall step forward
will 10
will 9
will 8
will 7
will 6
will 5
will 4
will 3
will 2
will 1 person bear remembrance
Blessed are you,oh Lord, King of the universe
who dwells in the 7 realms
in the west,in the east
in the north,in the south
in the earth below,in the heavens above
in our souls eternally
3 companions,7 falling stars,the earth shall open,an ancient stream flows
Posted by: mcohen | Sep 1 2015 8:09 utc | 38
@25 ATH: there is no such thing as separation of powers there. The Ayatollahs rule supreme and the presidential candidates are only from the pre-chosen pool. Just even mentioning any "democracy" when talking about that is outright ridiculous.
Their prison network and the count of (mostly public!) executions are iranian official numbers. Those are hard facts. The "west" puts the number of executions way higher than the official numbers.
And then I hope you remember that first british removed the only genuinely democratic iranian government (Mossadegh) when he nationalized the oil industry and took it away from the "Anglo-Iranian Oil company", then they did the same to Shah for the same reasons in 1979, via the MI6-CIA driven "islamic revolution" that brought us the current regime etc. Those are also well-known hard facts. The Mullahs are very comparable to the current ISIS caliphate, just not so anti-technology. Let alone that they are calling for the destruction of "big satan" (all of us in the west) on a weekly basis, easily provable by looking at the iranian press. And sorry, but Islam is not "the glue binding the society", nor are all Iranians shiite muslims to begin with. The certain flavor of political Jihad is imposed upon the whole society, which is the very definitiojn of religious dictatorship. Also when the state is owned and ran by a bunch of oligarch-priests, that's the very definition of fascism, as defined by Mussolini himself. Suppression of the individual's rights for the "greater good" was the same in nazi germany, soviet Russia or current Iran.
I definitely don't ever trust religious zealots with fascist tendencies, that will never change. Regardless of which region or which religion - they are to be removed.
Posted by: zed | Sep 1 2015 9:35 utc | 39
@ 33
Indeed. The Israeli website Ynetnews-com is reporting that the Russians are definitely in Syria. This means ALL bets are off! "ISIS" (there) is finished. Turkey (and the US) will need to find a whole new game to play. This, I think, is largely about pipelines and Iran, and was inevitable.
/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ynetnews-com -- Russian jets in Syrian skies -- 8/31/15
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4696268,00.html
According to Western diplomats, a Russian expeditionary force has already arrived in Syria and set up camp in an Assad-controlled airbase. The base is said to be in area surrounding Damascus, and will serve, for all intents and purposes, as a Russian forward operating base.
In the coming weeks thousands of Russian military personnel are set to touch down in Syria, including advisors, instructors, logistics personnel, technical personnel, members of the aerial protection division, and the pilots who will operate the aircraft.
Past reports have stated that the Russians were in talks to sell the Syrians a package of MiG-29 fighter jets, and Yak-130 trainer jets (which can also serve as attack aircraft.) The current makeup of the expeditionary force is still unknown, but there is no doubt that Russian pilots flying combat missions in Syrian skies will definitely change the existing dynamics in the Middle East.
\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was sure this would happen.
Hi fairleft! The old "camp" had the "best" trolls ever. Maybe there should be an award for that?
Posted by: blues | Sep 1 2015 9:38 utc | 40
It has ALWAYS been just a ruse. Netanyahu pistol-whipped the US Congress to extend sanctions against RU...then immediately flew back to Hebron to inaugurate the New Israeli Free Trade Zone ... with RU!!!
26% of Israelis, the same 1/4 super-minority of former Soviet 'white Jews' who have kept Netanyahu in power, are still black-market dealing with their erstwhile Russian cohorts ... including black-market trading ... with Iran!!!
Bibi was just smoking out the $10s of BILLIONS the West is going to pour into Iran for trades that Isreal has already developed the pipelines for. They'll prolly sell Ukraine guns (Ukraine one of world's largest gun makers) to Iran to fund the Yinon Plan war in Syria with.
"We won, you lost. It's just bidnez, get over it. NOW GET THOSE AID $Bs TO TEHRAN!"
Need the visual?
Posted by: NoReply | Sep 1 2015 9:56 utc | 41
39
Also when the state is owned and ran by a bunch of oligarch-former-Soviet Likudniks who only managed 24% of the popular vote, to where even the original Sephardim Kibutzim settlers have applied to Spain for political refugee status, that's the very definition of religious exceptionalist fascism, as defined by Theodor Hertzl himself.
Posted by: NoReply | Sep 1 2015 10:10 utc | 42
The Ynet article explains the "Syrian refugee crisis - suddenly in Germany". DW is official - government paid - German news.
It does not happen every day that the White House puts out a statement explicitly praising a foreign leader for his or her actions on a certain issue. By doing so and by singling out Berlin's decision to suspend the so called Dublin rules to allow more Syrian refugees to come to Germany, President Obama was providing crucial support for the chancellor, who has faced criticism at home for being too slow to act."I think the US is trying to put their political weight behind that leadership that she is showing," said Elizabeth Collett, director of the Migration Policy Institute Europe.
Obama's presidential praise came on Wednesday. Hours earlier, Chancellor Merkel was booed by far-right protesters during a visit to a refugee center in a German town at the center of a recent wave of anti-foreigner violence.
"Ukraine refugee crisis" next.
To clarify what I mean. There has been a Syrian and Ukrainian refugee crisis for quite a while. That Europe feels compelled to take Syrian refugees in (and integrate them in their societies) means a decision has been taken on the outcome of the civil war.
Posted by: somebody | Sep 1 2015 10:11 utc | 43
10
The highest per capita execution rate in the world belongs to Israel in their liquidation of Gazans in the Israeli internment camps.
Posted by: NoReply | Sep 1 2015 10:13 utc | 44
Erdogan's foreign policy seems to have gone down.
According to Moscow Times on Monday, the Russian President, Vladimir Putin, summoned Turkey’s Ambassador in Moscow, Ümit Yardim, and told him to convey a rather undiplomatic message to President Erdogan. “Tell your dictator President he can go to hell along with his ISIS terrorists, I will make Syria a ‘Big Stalingrad for him!” he reportedly said.
Posted by: somebody | Sep 1 2015 10:46 utc | 45
Fasten your seatbelts
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said the United States will use a NATO summit next week to push for a coalition of countries to beat back incursions in Syria and Iraq by Islamic State militants who are destabilizing the region and beyond."With a united response led by the United States and the broadest possible coalition of nations, the cancer of ISIS will not be allowed to spread to other countries," Kerry wrote in an opinion piece published in The New York Times on Saturday.
...
Kerry said he and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel will meet with their European counterparts to enlist support for a coalition to act against Islamic State militants. "The goal is to enlist the broadest possible assistance," he wrote.
Hagel and Kerry will then travel to the Middle East to shore up support from countries directly affected by the Islamic State threat, he said.
...
Islamic State fighters have exhibited "repulsive savagery and cruelty" as they try to touch off a broader sectarian conflict, Kerry wrote, and the beheading of Foley "shocked the conscience of the world."
"Already our efforts have brought dozens of nations to this cause," he said. "Certainly there are different interests at play. But no decent country can support the horrors perpetrated by ISIS, and no civilized country should shirk its responsibility to help stamp out this disease."
Republicans and Democrats in Congress have called for lawmakers to vote on whether the United States should broaden its action against Islamic State.
Now Europe, you want to confront Russia in Syria? I already saw various opeds in German media arguing for confronting the "Syrian refugee crisis" at its root.
New attempt to sell war in Germany - if you do not want refugees go to war.
Posted by: somebody | Sep 1 2015 10:59 utc | 46
Oui @ 33
Voltaire Network
The Russian army is beginning to engage in Syria
by Thierry Meyssan
A profound and significant change has just occurred in the Levant – the Russian army has begun to engage against terrorism in Syria. Although Russia has been absent from the international scene since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and although it is moving with care, it has just created a Russo-Syrian Commission, has begun supplying weapons, sharing intelligence, and sending advisors. All of this is more or less coordinated with the White House.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article188522.html
Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 1 2015 12:06 utc | 47
Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 1, 2015 8:06:40 AM | 47
I bet on the "less".
The US is at the beginning of a new election cycle.
Posted by: somebody | Sep 1 2015 12:36 utc | 48
@39
zed: "The Ayatollahs rule supreme and the presidential candidates are only from the pre-chosen pool."
And that's different from the US Presidential race, err, how, exactly?
Since 1979 there have been only two (2) serious US Presidential candidate who emerged who weren't "from a pre-chosen pool", and in both cases the "rogue" candidate was an egocentric megalomaniacal billionaire: Ross Perot and Donald Trump.
And Perot had exactly zero chance of ever being elected, as he well knew.
zed: "Just even mentioning any "democracy" when talking about that is outright ridiculous."
Oh, please, just listen to yourself.
What passes for "democracy" in the USA is now an equally-ridiculous farce, and if you can't see that then, honestly, you might like to ponder why it is that a nonentity like Saunders is cast as a "liberal" or even (hah!) a "socialist".
zed: "Their prison network and the count of (mostly public!) executions are iranian official numbers. Those are hard facts. The "west" puts the number of executions way higher than the official numbers."
Yes, Iran visits death upon its own citizenry.
In that it is markedly different to the USA, whose specialty is visiting death in vastly greater numbers upon foreigners.
Foreigners whose only "crime" is to find themselves between Uncle Sam and something that he wants.
Or Israel, who kills without remorse simply because the natives have the misfortune of living on land that The Chosen People choose to call "Mine! Mine! It's All Mine!".
Hey, at least Iran insists that all those that it executes are executed following an exhaustive legal system, which is totally unlike the USA or its Mini-Me - neither of whom will even bother to tally the deaths that they cause.
Something to do with "exceptionalism", I believe.....
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 1 2015 12:49 utc | 49
The disastrous miscalculation made by the United States in signing a military agreement with Turkey at the expense of the Kurds becomes daily more apparent. In return for the use of Incirlik Air Base just north of the Syrian border, the US betrayed the Syrian Kurds who have so far been its most effective ally against Islamic State (Isis, also known as Daesh)....
President Barack Obama has assembled a grand coalition of 60 states, supposedly committed to combating Isis, but the only forces on the ground to win successive victories against the jihadis over the past year are the ruling Syrian-Kurdish Party (PYD) and its People’s Protection Units (YPG). Supported by US air power, the YPG heroically defeated the Isis attempt to capture the border city of Kobani during a four-and-a-half month siege that ended in January, and seized the Isis crossing point into Turkey at Tal Abyad in June.
The advance of the Syrian Kurds, who now hold half of the 550-mile Syrian-Kurdish border, was the main external reason why Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan offered the US closer cooperation, including the use of Incirlik, which had previously been denied.
Russia saving Obama once more?
Posted by: somebody | Sep 1 2015 13:03 utc | 50
Same link as #50
But there is a deeper reason for America’s inability to confront Isis successfully. Ever since 9/11, the US has wanted to combat al-Qaeda-type movements, but without disturbing its close relations with Sunni states such as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the Gulf monarchies. But it is these same allies that have fostered, tolerated or failed to act against the al-Qaeda clones, which explains their continuing success.
I would say the same in a different way: Should the US effectively fight ISIS they have no allies in the Middle East left.
Posted by: somebody | Sep 1 2015 13:10 utc | 51
@ 49:
"And that's different from the US Presidential race, err, how, exactly?"
That is how the Mullah-system is built and officially written into law. In USA it's simply corruption, the laws state otherwise. There is a big difference between a legalized dictatorship (being official as such) and the _illegal_ corruption going against the law like in the western countries. It is a topic for the judiciary, or maybe correction via legislation - there are no such options in a theocracy.
Yes, it is a farce in the US (or UK, Germany, France etc.), but it's because our judiciary is sleeping and certainly not because our system is rotten in it's basics. Two different worlds.
Iran is killing it's own citizenry in heaps, as mentioned it is the higest per-capita execution rate in the world. According to Iranian numbers alone. It is a fact, learn to live with it. Their network of prison camps is HUGE, there is nothing comparable anywhere in the west, the best comparison would actually be Stalin's gulags. Just be happy that you don't have to live there.
Of course there is also corruption and elite rule in Israel, just like anywhere else - what's so special about that? You don't go after France or Germany just because they have the same kind of oligarchy, so why do you try to single out Israel here? It's just another oligarch-enslaved entity.
As for your comment about "internment camps" in #44, it's outright ridiculous and can only be described as nazi pro-jihad nonsense propaganda. No known source supports that theory, unless you uncritically buy into any bull that Hamas propaganda tools post on Facebook and Twitter. There is a severe lack of reality behind those claims.
As for Iran, here's a latest example of them supporting the real terrorists: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/16/us-kuwait-security-iran-idUSKCN0QL0CV20150816
Just one of countless available examples. Also in the news were several caches of Iran-made weapons found in Egypt last month, feel free to google the news yourself. THAT is your "following an exhaustive legal system" right there.
Posted by: zed | Sep 1 2015 13:19 utc | 52
One more for "Yeah right":
http://www.thomaswictor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Jewish_Palestinian_wedding.jpg
As you can see, it's not the little people producing trouble down there, neither on arab nor jewish side.
Posted by: zed | Sep 1 2015 13:28 utc | 54
Over at AW they claim Petraeus wants to use AlCIAda to fight IsUS.What a maroon.I mean,even Sanders is infected with terrible takes on reality,expressing stupid ideas about the Saudis,and not recognizing facts.
And the NYlying Times says;Corbyn says OBL killing tragedy,not noting he actually said,it was a tragedy he wasn't brought to trial.The monsters never sleep.
Posted by: dahoit | Sep 1 2015 13:36 utc | 55
Follow-up on my earlier post #33 above.
Ynet News item noted by Informed Comment ...The Arabic newspaper Elaph expanded on the story and pointed out that there had been earlier reports that Moscow intended to send Mig-28 fighter jets to the al-Assad regime.
The rumors now are that Russia intends to go much further, and has decided to do for Syria what the US did last summer and fall for Iraq. Moscow will, Elaph says, send thousands of military personnel as trainers, along with some pilots, to shore up the al-Assad regime.
...
While Israeli sources are worried about the growth of a Russia-Iran alliance in the region, Elaph maintains that the United States is perfectly happy with the Russian plans, which add firepower in the US coalition’s own bombing campaigns ... against Daesh in Iraq.Related video: Euronews: Al-Assad Confident of alliance with Russia, Iran
ATH @ 25:Excellent post, right on point. Facts are such pesky things.
YR @ 29-49: More reason, wonderful.
Zed at 39: Agree with your last thought, but, not much else.
Question for Zed. Does Iran match this record?
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
Posted by: ben | Sep 1 2015 14:21 utc | 57
Woops, Zed, with one stipulation for your last sentence on #39:
As long as their"removed" by their own people.
Posted by: ben | Sep 1 2015 14:27 utc | 58
@56
I'm sure Putin and Russia are anxious to repeat another Afghanistan adventure, that turned out so well.
This rumor is being repeated by the real Moonie Press, the Washington Times so it being parroting here by lesser Moonies is predictable.
Posted by: Wayoutwest | Sep 1 2015 15:31 utc | 59
Theocracies are inherently right wing and authoritarian. Usually they govern repressively. The only recent exceptions to that rule were the Tibetan kingdom and...well, uhhh, OK, just Tibet. Iran's sectarian theocracy works to an extent because 89%(per National Geographic) of Iranians are Shi-I. Iran is ethnically diverse, with large Azeri and Kurdish minorities (much larger than Iraq's Kurdish population), but religiously unified. Historically Persian society was rather similar to how the Gulf monarchies are today, but with a definite clerical Shiite hierarchy having a lot of wealth and influence. The point of all this is that the current Iranian system provides stability and cohesion, for good or I'll - mostly for good in the middle of the chaos of decadent imperialism.
However, sectarianism - the favorite tool of the west's middle east imperialism - is clearly the worst evil afflicting religiously diverse Arab society, and therefore theocracy is an unmitigated enemy of their legitimate anti- imperialism.
Posted by: Ibrahimyazeji | Sep 1 2015 15:42 utc | 60
Meanwhile in the real world (and this is just one of many sectors). Having soon moved away from the nuclear issue, Iran will hopefully reintegrate itself in the global economy where it belonged (though catching up will take plenty of years and capital).
Posted by: never mind | Sep 1 2015 15:47 utc | 61
Posted by: Ibrahimyazeji | Sep 1, 2015 11:42:40 AM | 60
No, not the Tibetan Kingdom
Lobsang Gyatso (Wylie transliteration: Blo-bzang Rgya-mtsho), the Great Fifth Dalai Lama, (1617–1682) was the first Dalai Lama to wield effective political power over central Tibet.The fifth Dalai Lama is known for unifying the Tibetan heartland under the control of the Gelug school of Tibetan Buddhism, after defeating the rival Kagyu and Jonang sects and the secular ruler, the Tsangpa prince, in a prolonged civil war. His efforts were successful in part because of aid from Güshi Khan, the Oirat leader of the Khoshut Khanate. The Jonang monasteries were either closed or forcibly converted, and that school remained in hiding until the latter part of the 20th century. With Güshi Khan as a largely uninvolved overlord, the 5th Dalai Lama and his intimates established a civil administration which is referred to by historians as the Lhasa state. This Tibetan regime or government is also referred to as the Ganden Phodrang.
Posted by: somebody | Sep 1 2015 16:19 utc | 62
Somebody, you and Patrick Cockburn are both in denial, which results in the facts not fitting the real world (emphasis added):
Cockburn: The disastrous miscalculation made by the United States [nope, it was a sensible calculation and it's working out as planned] in signing a military agreement with Turkey at the expense of the Kurds becomes daily more apparent. In return for the use of Incirlik Air Base just north of the Syrian border, the US betrayed the Syrian Kurds who have so far been its most effective ally against Islamic State. ...
But wait, how can the most powerful military in world history, with no problem killing many civilians in pursuit of its enemies, actually be fighting against the Islamic State and have the following record of failure:
President Barack Obama has assembled a grand coalition of 60 states, supposedly committed to combating Isis, but the only forces on the ground to win successive victories against the jihadis over the past year are the ruling Syrian-Kurdish Party (PYD) and its People’s Protection Units (YPG). Supported by US air power, the YPG heroically defeated the Isis attempt to capture the border city of Kobani during a four-and-a-half month siege that ended in January, and seized the Isis crossing point into Turkey at Tal Abyad in June.
But wait, the US and the 60 states it allies with have zero victories over ISIS? The US (most powerful military in history, etc.) and those 60 states can't _really_ be fighting "against" the Islamic State, can they? No, they can't be and have a track record like that.
Somebody: Russia saving Obama once more?
No, Russia, if it is entering Syria in force, is opposing the US and its unofficial allies, Islamic State and Al Qaeda and its variations. Sensible interpretation is that the US is a rational actor advancing its interest: it wants to overthrow Assad and therefore enemies of Assad are US allies. Russia is a rational actor advancing its interests: it wants to preserve Assad and doesn't want to 'save Obama'.
Cockburn: But there is a deeper reason for America’s inability to confront Isis successfully. [Because ISIS is an ally in the fight to overthrow Assad? No, that would be too logical, and too in line with the actual facts.] Ever since 9/11, the US has wanted to combat al-Qaeda-type movements [Really? Then why does it always end up helping such movements, 'except' for the occasional well-publicized PR episode?], but without disturbing its close relations with Sunni states such as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the Gulf monarchies. [Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf dictatorships are very dependent, very subordinate, and very penetrated allies of the US. Al Qaeda was an official ally of the US in 1980s Afghanistan, ferchrissake. Why does Cockburn (and the mainstream media generally) pretend the US has not always been "in" on the creation, funding, and manipulation of the half crazy, half mercenary Saudi Arabia terrorist groups?] But it is these same allies that have fostered, tolerated or failed to act against the al-Qaeda clones, which explains their continuing success. [Yes, but in close cooperation with and with full knowledge of the USA (and UK as well).]
Posted by: fairleft | Sep 1 2015 16:42 utc | 63
Ii was referring to the Dalai Llama's government. Thanks for the correction.
Posted by: Ibrahimyazeji | Sep 1 2015 16:46 utc | 64
Ii was referring to the Dalai Llama's government. Thanks for the correction.
And the difference is?
Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. [...]In 1959, Anna Louise Strong visited an exhibition of torture equipment that had been used by the Tibetan overlords. There were handcuffs of all sizes, including small ones for children, and instruments for cutting off noses and ears, gouging out eyes, breaking off hands, and hamstringing legs. There were hot brands, whips, and special implements for disemboweling. The exhibition presented photographs and testimonies of victims who had been blinded or crippled or suffered amputations for thievery. There was the shepherd whose master owed him a reimbursement in yuan and wheat but refused to pay. So he took one of the master’s cows; for this he had his hands severed. Another herdsman, who opposed having his wife taken from him by his lord, had his hands broken off. There were pictures of Communist activists with noses and upper lips cut off, and a woman who was raped and then had her nose sliced away. [...]
What upset the Tibetan lords and lamas in the early 1950s was that these latest Chinese were Communists. It would be only a matter of time, they feared, before the Communists started imposing their collectivist egalitarian schemes upon Tibet.
The issue was joined in 1956-57, when armed Tibetan bands ambushed convoys of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army. The uprising received extensive assistance from the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) [...] The Dalai Lama's second-eldest brother, Gyalo Thondup, established an intelligence operation with the CIA as early as 1951. He later upgraded it into a CIA-trained guerrilla unit whose recruits parachuted back into Tibet.28
Many Tibetan commandos and agents whom the CIA dropped into the country were chiefs of aristocratic clans or the sons of chiefs [...] “As far as can be ascertained, the great bulk of the common people of Lhasa and of the adjoining countryside failed to join in the fighting against the Chinese".
Posted by: Kraut | Sep 1 2015 17:17 utc | 65
I thought that there could be an exception to the rule regarding theocracy, but I'm happy to concede the point.
Posted by: Ibrahimyazeji | Sep 1 2015 17:31 utc | 66
@52 OK, I can see that my point flies waaaaaaaay over your head.
Let me try again.
Iran is an inward-looking country. What death it visits it visits upon its own citizens that it deems to be criminals, and those deaths - even by your own argument - numbers in the hundreds.
Israel is an expansionist country. It visits death upon innocent civilians - almost invariably Palestinian and/or Lebanese - and those deaths number in thousands.
It does so not because those that it kills are "criminals", but because those unfortunates happen to live atop resources (Land, in the case of Palestinians, water in the case of the Lebanese) that Israel believes should be Mine! Mine! Alllllll Mine!
The USA is a global hegemon. It visits death upon innocent civilians numbering in the MILLIONS, and it does so for reasons of "exceptionalism".
So we have here a world in which Iran kills criminals in the hundreds (invariably its own citizens, nary a foreigner amongst them), while Israel kills innocent Palestinians and Lebanese in the thousands, and the USA kills uncounted millions around the globe.
Yet you are outraged by the former, and utterly indifferent to the latter two.
How odd. How singularly odd.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 1 2015 22:12 utc | 67
@52...and @67,
Zed, Iran is not at the top of the execution rate, even though Breitbart claims so, and there is some musing on Amnesty's site that although Iran's stated official rate so far this year (2015) is ~270, "some" sources are claiming over 700+. Sources not identified. Amounts not specified. Just some rumors. Consider the anti-Iran campaigns.
But if you're going to accept Amnesty's conjecture, then you have to consider this: "Amnesty estimates that China also executes "thousands" of prisoners each year," more than all countries put together. Amnesty has no official numbers for China and North Korea.
Iran is ahead in executions and Nigeria is ahead in death sentences in this Amnesty Report for 2014 (1/15)
Amnesty International Report Into Death Penalties And Executions Around The World Is Grim Reading
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/01/amnesty-international-death-sentence-capital-punishment-_n_6987216.html
Posted by: MRW | Sep 1 2015 23:22 utc | 68
Somebody at 45 --
The quotation about Stalingrad is a fabrication. See my nr. 10 at Syria: Is Israel Planning to Escalate?
On Russian co-operation with Syria --
I would wait for confirmation from other sources. Moscow denied the reports about fighter jets when it first surfaced, stressing the long-term the long-standing and ongoing nature of their relationship. Meyssan overstates the cooperation. Some of the actions he notes are a few years ago and in other areas, in Central Asia, if memory serves.
It's from about two weeks ago, but explains the stakes well, Mike Whitney from Counterpunch. Assad may go, but Russia will not back away from Syria.
Should there turn out to be a more robust Russian presence in Syria, it would be a sign that the Syrians position has deteriorated, as the MSM has been suggesting of late. The Russian response will be, like that in the Ukraine, firm, measured, defiant but not provocative. I'd keep some money on the table myself.
So far it looks like Turkey in front, ISIL closing on the far right, Syria third but still running strong despite the serious jostling from members of the pack. Kurds sadly trailing the field (I gotta go with the long shot here), America running poorly but talking a good game. Saudis and the Gulf Stables are running well, and could close on the final turns. Conditions are dry and the track is fast.
Kraut at 65 --
Parenti is usually pretty good, thanks for posting it. PopCult celebs cultivate this aura of Tibetan holiness, overlooking that the monks of the monasteries owed their contemplation to harsh exploitation of the peasantry, whom they repressed mercilessly.
Posted by: rufus magister | Sep 2 2015 1:54 utc | 69
@ ben #58: "removed by their own people" would be nice, but in most cases it's a pipe dream. In a country where the little people can own no weapons and the regime's guards are several million well-trained and equipped soldiers, it could be just a bit too much hopium.
@ Tibet topic: under Lamas, who were "God-Kings", people were skinned alive on a big wheel, would get their eyes gauged out or hands hacked off for simple theft etc. The Lamas were almighty dictators of the worst kind. Saudi Arabia today is the oasis of rights, freedom and peace in comparison.
Forget all that TV-nonsense about "peaceful Lamas" etc., it's just PR-talk for the gullible. Just the fact that they get so much promotion in the MSM should tip you off, even if we knew nothing further.
@67 yeah, right: I'm sorry man, but I can't take you seriously - your constant repetition of pro-Hamas Pallywood-PR from Twitter is complete nonsense and has zero substance. 95% of that stuff is concocted propaganda. I often did bother actually looking for sources and (dis-)proving those, almost all of it was either fantasy or a VERY one-sided view trimmed to feed uncritical consumers like you.
I am very much outraged about the latter, as are Palestinians themselves - being that Hamnas kills as many if not more of them than Israel. It's not Israel that places weapon caches and stores amo in schools and mosques or in the middle of residential areas.
Of course, in all of that you fail to even mention those thousands of rockets that Hamas shoots towards Israel every now and then in order to provoke a reaction and to have more (real or concocted) casualties to present on pro-muslim, pro-nazi western TV.
Posted by: zed | Sep 2 2015 8:23 utc | 70
The "pro-nazi" in the last line above of course refers to current Ukraine-related reporting.
Posted by: zed | Sep 2 2015 8:25 utc | 71
Big step forward on India-Iran-Russia corridor and
Iran agrees to consider being part of CPEC. With economic prosperity comes peace and stability. I hope that these plans of connecting east asia to central asia will come to fruition.
Posted by: never mind | Sep 2 2015 10:10 utc | 72
Further to 69
Moscow says, No Migs for You! I don't recall where I read it, but it was observed that ground attack aircraft would be of more use.
RT also calls BS on the report.
Elliott Abrams talks it up, so it’s gotta be BS.
The Saker at Russia Insider also provides an analysis.
Posted by: rufus magister | Sep 2 2015 23:06 utc | 73
zed says: "@67 yeah, right: I'm sorry man, but I can't take you seriously - your constant repetition of pro-Hamas Pallywood-PR from Twitter is complete nonsense and has zero substance. 95% of that stuff is concocted propaganda. I often did bother actually looking for sources and (dis-)proving those, almost all of it was either fantasy or a VERY one-sided view trimmed to feed uncritical consumers like you."
I invite everyone to read that drivel and marvel at how anyone can be so delusional as to think that the above is a "rebuttal" of anything other than some voices in zed's head.
This is a fact: Iran executes hundreds of people every year.
Each and every one of them is.... an Iranian citizen.
Each and every one of them is.... executed following due process of criminal law.
Now, so sorry, you (and I, for that matter) don't have to **like** that Iran is oh-so-quick to resort to capital punishment against its own citizens. Fine. Express your dislike.
But in a Westphanian World (obviously not the place you inhabit, zed) there can be no argument that Iran's penal code is for the Iranians to decide. Not you. Not me. Not the USA. Not Israel.
They decide, and only they decide.
COMPARE AND CONTRAST:
During the same period in which Iran was executing hundreds (of its own citizens, inside its own sovereign territory) the state of Israel had racked up THOUSANDS of killings.
Each and every one of them was.... an foreigner.
Each and every one of them was.... killed without any due process or criminal proceedings.
Heck, the 1982 IDF assault on Lebanon led to more civilian deaths than all of the public executions in Iran from 1979 to the present day.
Now, can you refute that? Or can't you?
Because I'm saying right here and now that based upon your last drivel not only CAN'T you refute that but you refuse to even attempt to refute that.
COMPARE AND CONTRAST:
During the same period in which Iran was executing hundreds (of its own citizens, inside its own sovereign territory) the USA killed *millions* of civilians around the globe.
Each and every one of them was.... an foreigner.
Each and every one of them was.... killed without any due process or criminal proceedings.
Heck, the civilian death toll caused by US actions inside Iraq *alone* would tally up to over a million deaths, if the USA was wont to do such tallying.
Which, of course, it isn't.
You neither, by the look of things.
zed: "I am very much outraged about".... drivel, drivel, drivel, the only importance of which is to add "mock outrage" to the other tricks of the trade that zed has so inexpertly displayed.
You know, like "ad-hominin", and "evasion", and "the straw man".
Dude, sunshine, dipstick: the Iranians execute hundreds of their own citizens, inside their own territory.
They don't kill anyone else's citizens, much less do so in anyone else's territory.
Unlike Israel, who make a habit of it.
Unlike the USA, who has carved out a hegemony by doing so.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 3 2015 6:42 utc | 74
First Jewish Revolt coinage was issued by the Jews after the Zealots captured Jerusalem and the Jewish temple from the Romans in 66 AD at the beginning of the First Jewish Revolt. The Jewish leaders of the revolt minted their own coins to emphasize their newly obtained independence from Rome.
In the revolt's first year (66–67 AD), the Jews minted only silver coins, which were struck from the temple’s store of silver. These coins replaced the Tyrian shekel, which had previously been used to pay the temple tax. The newly minted silver coins included shekels, half-shekels, and quarter-shekels, each being labelled with the year of minting and their denomination. These are the first truly Jewish silver coins,[3] and depict a chalice on the obverse with the year of the revolt above, surrounded by the ancient Hebrew inscription "Shekel of Israel". Three budding pomegranates are featured on the reverse, with the inscription "Jerusalem the Holy".[4]
During the second (67–68 AD) and third (69–70 AD) years of the revolt bronzeprutah coins were issued, depicting an amphora, and with the date and the Hebrew inscription (חרות ציון Herut Zion)"The Freedom of Zion
yeah,wrong #74
the difference between israel and iran is simple
the jewish people are fighting a war for a land that they have had a connection to for over 2000 years
iran is hanging people for crimes
Posted by: mcohen | Sep 3 2015 12:29 utc | 75
zed: "the difference between israel and iran is simple"
Oh, this is going to be good.
zed: "the jewish people are fighting a war for a land that they have had a connection to for over 2000 years"
The IDF killed 50,000 Lebanese civilians when it invaded that country in 1982.
Remind me again how and when "the jewish people" had dibs on Lebanon for the last 2,000 years.
zed: "iran is hanging people for crimes"
Hmmm, so according to zed-logic(tm) is it heinous for a country like Iran to hang its own people for their crimes, but it is every Israeli's patriotic duty to kill The Other because Those Others are living on land that "his people" claimed dibs on 2,000 years ago.
And - hey! of this zed has no doubts - a dib is a dib is a dibby-dob-dib, and there can be no denying it.
Which is indeed odd, because say what you like about the morality of Iran's use of capital punishment, there can be do doubt that it involves the use of "due process".
Unlike Israel's killing sprees, which even according to zed is founded upon nothing more that a 2,000 year old dib.
Due process, zed. You might want to look that term up.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 3 2015 12:38 utc | 76
Err, that was not me, so please stop misquoting stuff. Talk to the other guy.
Posted by: zed | Sep 3 2015 14:13 utc | 77
Oh and one more: "Each and every one of them is.... executed following due process of criminal law."
Let me just say "yeah, right" to that, followed by a huge ROTFLMAO.
Posted by: zed | Sep 3 2015 14:14 utc | 78
Lots of crazy drivel from you, but still nothing of substance, just repating your long-debunked twitter-nonsense from Hamas-youngsters. Just as expected.
No discussion possible with such utterly fact-resistant haters like you. And please allow me to call you a Jew-hater, which is simply what you are. You only care about DEAD Palestinians too, like all the murder-porn loving hypocrites of that kind.
Wish you lots of fun in your little reality bubble, I'm out.
Posted by: zed | Sep 3 2015 14:21 utc | 79
zed: "Wish you lots of fun in your little reality bubble, I'm out."
And as the little gutless wonder runs away as fast as his hairy legs will take him now would be a good time to point out to everyone who remains that zed has made not the slightest attempt to even acknowledge the point that I keep making.
One. More. Time: zed considers the Iranian regime to be "a crazy, medieval islamo-fascist dictatorship" because it retains capital punishment for serious criminal offenses, and executes such criminals at the rate of several hundred per year.
Okay..... but it is a fact that during those very same years the state of Israel has killed THOUSANDS of civilians, invariably foreigners, and invariably without any due process and invariably outside of the sovereign territory of Israel.
Ditto for the USA, only the killings number in the MILLIONS.
So one would think that if the execution of HUNDREDS inside Iran merits the appellation of "crazy" then what label would zed hang on Israel, who's killings rampages in the region are an order of magnitude greater? Or of the USA, which kills globally, and at a rate that is two orders of magnitude greater?
It would be interesting indeed to hear zed's response to that question, but I invite everyone to look over zed's lamentable posts for so much as a hint of an answer.
zed: "No discussion possible".... no discussion has ever been attempted by you, sunshine.
What you have posted in response to my argument has been meaningless drivel:
..."it's outright ridiculous and can only be described as nazi pro-jihad nonsense propaganda"...
..."your constant repetition of pro-Hamas Pallywood-PR from Twitter is complete nonsense and has zero substance"...
..."just repeating your long-debunked twitter-nonsense from Hamas-youngsters"...
Note the pattern of evasion: he does not have to address my argument, he just handwaves it away as "hamas propaganda".
Apparently the IDF didn't kill 50,000 Lebanese civilians during its 1982 invasion of Lebanon. That's "hamas propaganda".
Apparently millions of Iraqi civilians didn't die because of the USA's obsession with taking down Saddam Hussein. That's "hamas propaganda".
It says a lot about zed's confused state of mind that the execution of hundreds of Iranian convicted criminals is "crazy", but the killing of thousands of civilians (by Israel) or millions (by the USA) is merely a Hamas talking-point, and therefore zed refuses to even talk about it.
Well you should run away, little man.
Perhaps best if you go play in traffic.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 4 2015 0:17 utc | 80
Yeah what 80
Due process in the middle east is 2 arabs on a donkey sitting back to back one going forward,the other going backwards.
Posted by: mcohen | Sep 4 2015 8:35 utc | 81
@ murder-porn lover: "but it is a fact that during those very same years the state of Israel has killed THOUSANDS of civilians, invariably foreigners"
That is just a figment in your head. Almost none of those reports are real and of those that are, it's mostly people killed by Hamas or by placing their armor right under the people's asses, so that Israeli retaliation can produce enough media-worthy collateral for twisted viewership like you. As said, you only care about dead Palestinians, just like all of your kin. Hypocrite if I ever saw one.
Yes the executions in Iran do matter, because most of them are not for criminals but political "dissidents" who reject the Mullah rule. Also effectively presented in PUBLIC executions, the usual tyrant practice.
Besides executions, their vast and well-filled prison/camp landscape makes Stalin's gulags look like a holiday. Not like you would care reading some actual facts, but more astute readers might be interested: http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6202/iran-prison-archipelago
Again, I would wish all the disillusioned creatures like you to move to Iran for a couple of months and "enjoy" the Mullah rule on your own skin. You'd sing a different song after that experience.
I never refuse to talk about anything, but you are just recycling your nonsensical monologue and trying to insult and derail all the time, while not providing a single bit of evidence for anything. The usual moedus operandi of paid propaganda shills or useful idiots, whichever you are.
Posted by: zed | Sep 4 2015 9:14 utc | 82
Here's a little example of '"due process" for you:
Recent example:
"Iran's revolutionary court sentenced 18 Christian converts on charges that include evangelism, propaganda against the regime, and creating house churches to practice their faith. The sentences totaled almost 24 years (the lack of transparency in Iran's tightly controlled judicial system does not allow for a breakdown of individual sentences). The defendants were also barred from organizing home church meetings and given a two-year ban from leaving Iran. The Christians, many of whom were arrested in 2013, were sentenced in accordance with Article 500 of the Islamic Penal Code, which states that "Anyone who engages in any type of propaganda against the Islamic Republic of Iran or in support of opposition groups and associations, shall be sentenced to three months to one year of imprisonment.""
That's your "criminals" right there.
Posted by: zed | Sep 4 2015 9:37 utc | 83
Another recent one:
"BEHROUZ ALKHANI HANGED IN IRAN
On August 26, 2015, Iran hanged Kurdish political prisoner Behrouz Alkhani in Orumieh Prison. Alkhani was convicted of "waging war on God.""
Poor god, he needs the mighty Mullahs for defense.
Posted by: zed | Sep 4 2015 9:42 utc | 84
@81
Too funny. The argument is about the practice of capital punishment in Iran, to which mcohen responds with a racist rant against..... Arabs.
I can't be bothered explaining why mcohen is as ignorant as he is racist.
I'll leave the long explanation to others.
I'll give him the short version: They're Persians, dimwit
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 4 2015 9:42 utc | 85
Needless to say, Mr. MurderPorn cares zilch about hundreds of thousands of Christians killed all over the place. Can't sell fear porn with those I guess.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6258/christians-burn-pope-worries
Posted by: zed | Sep 4 2015 9:44 utc | 86
@82
zed: ...."It's mostly people killed by Hamas"...
*sigh*
I've now lost count of how many times I've pointed out that the IDF killed 50,000 Lebanese civilians during its 1982 invasion of Lebanon.
Apparently it doesn't matter how often I point that out, because he never, ever acknowledges that inconvenient fact
Instead he just pretends it has never been mentioned, all the better for him to parrot *squawk* *squawk* *Hamas* *squark* *Hamas*.
Dude, Hamas didn't kill 50,000 civilians in Lebanon in 1982.
But die those civilians most certainly did, and it was most definitely the state of Israel that done did kill 'em.
Your comment, please, and if you squawk *Hamas* again then you've already lost the argument.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 4 2015 9:54 utc | 87
@84
I think it is abundantly clear that zed has not the faintest grasp of my argument.
None. Whatsoever
Her, let me spell it out for you.
I don't like capital punishment.
Never have. Never will.
So just like zed I don't like that the Iran government executes criminals and certainly not when those executions number in the hundreds
On that matter see and I are in agreement.
Where we differ is in how selective our outrage is
Me?
Well, if I am going to be outraged at Iran killing hundreds of its own citizens according to its own penal code then I am going to be a order-of-magnitude MORE outraged when another country kills THOUSANDS without any pretense of any criminality.
But that's me.
What about zed?
*sound* *of* *crickets*
It's a tribal thing, apparently...
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 4 2015 10:17 utc | 88
Benjamin Netanyahu's attempt to scare Democrats on the Iran deal apparently backfired
On Aug. 9, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu cleared his calendar and sat down with 22 U.S. Democratic lawmakers who had been flown to Israel by a branch of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). The topic was the Iran nuclear deal. Netanyahu didn't ask any of the lawmakers to oppose the deal, some of those lawmakers tell The Wall Street Journal, but he answered their questions, explained his opposition to the accord and why he thought it dangerous to Israel, called their upcoming vote a "moral" choice, and at one point drew a picture of a "nuclear gun" with "nuclear bullets."
If true, I'd fear that he's out of his mind because that is truly disturbing.
Posted by: never mind | Sep 4 2015 14:09 utc | 89
The comments to this entry are closed.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/252255-report-dnc-chairwoman-blocked-iran-resolution-at-party-meeting
Debbie will probably keep her job. It is not like The Lobby is lacking plan B. Something similar happened before when AIPAC opposed a sale of advanced fighter plane to KSA. Standing between Schumer and a camera is one thing, but between arms industry and the most generous customer? But this is used until now as "you see, all the talk about omnipotent AIPAC is an anti-Semitic fantasy", while the donors of the Lobby can be scared "we need your support, we cannot be complacent". The difference is that Lobby burn quite a lot of resources, enough to prop one seriously hapless Presidential candidate with nothing to show, and the effort was much more visible, so the loss of face will be larger.
The biggest difference will be in Europe where support of Israel was a necessary ingredient needed to cure favors from Washington. Why do you thing countries like Latvia would have ANY POSITIVE ATTITUDE? Picking a very long, very visible and loosing fight with Washington will probably backfire on Israel.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 31 2015 13:10 utc | 1