Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 17, 2015

U.S. Air Force Is Supporting AlQaeda In Yemen And - Coming Now - Also In Syria

A few days ago newly Saudi trained Yemeni forces were inserted into the southern harbor city Aden to fight against Houthi and parts of the Yemeni army loyal to the former president Saleh. The inserted forces had brand new mine resistant vehicle and were led by special forces from the United Arab Emirates. With Saudi and U.S. air support they managed to push the Houthis from several Aden quarters. But after a day of fighting the attack got stuck and the Houthi hit back. An Emirati officer, likely acting as Forward Air Controller providing target designation for the air attacks, was killed. The Wall Street Journal notes that AlQaeda was part of the Saudi/U.S. supported forces:

Local militias backed by Saudi Arabia, special forces from the United Arab Emirates and al Qaeda militants all fought on the same side this week to wrest back control over most of Yemen’s second city, Aden, from pro-Iranian Houthi rebels, according to local residents and Houthi forces.

The U.S. is providing the ammunition, refueling and targeting intelligence for the "Saudi" campaign. Not only did it help to recently destroy various important bridges, hospitals and all three cement factories in Yemen, it is now actively giving air support to AlQaeda.

The same is likely to happen in Syria:

They arrived in Toyota Hilux pickup trucks, the favored vehicle of Islamist fighters in the Middle East and South Asia. But these men, the first graduates in the faltering U.S. train-and-equip program, were traveling into Syria to fight against an extremist insurgency, the Islamic State. The U.S. military calls them the “New Syrian force” and disclosed that they are to coordinate with rebel forces already on the ground who have a different objective – to fight the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad. The goal, a spokesman said, is to expand the effectiveness of all moderate forces.

Who please are the "moderate forces" in Syria? The clowns from Jaish al Fatah, Jabhat al Nusra (AlQaeda) and their best friends, the Brookings favorite Ahrar al-Shams, come to mind.

These groups, supported with the help of U.S. intelligence by Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Qatar, last month took Idlib in northern Syria. As reaction to that the Syrian government received additional support from its allies and pulled back to defensive positions. Since then new Jihadist attacks against Aleppo, Daara and in the Golan heights all failed with high casualties on the attackers side.

So now it is time to insert those "new" forces and, like in Yemen, offer AlQaeda the help of the U.S. air force:

[Maj. Curtis J. Kellogg, a spokesman for the U.S. Central Command, told McClatchy] “However, it is anticipated that New Syrian Force personnel will coordinate with other moderate opposition forces to build trust between organizations that are countering ISIL and apply the skills they have learned through the train-and-equip program to increase the combat effectiveness of all forces they operate with.”
...
The “New Syrian Force” will be able to call in U.S. airstrikes, as the Kurdish People’s Protection Units or YPG, a militia that has captured dozens of villages from the Islamic State in recent weeks. A U.S. government official who spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to discuss details of the program said the force on the ground will communicate with a U.S. military officer who’ll pass requests for air support to coalition commanders.

The "new" forces the U.S. is inserting will thereby be the Forward Air Controllers who will call in the U.S. air force "to increase the combat effectiveness of all forces they operate with". They will join the other insurgents on the ground, AlQaeda and other Jihadis, who have the premier aim of overthrowing the Syrian government.

Does anybody believe that the targeting data the "new" U.S. trained forces in Syria will be submitting will be solely of Islamic State targets?

But while the U.S. is giving air support to AlQaeda in Yemen and in Syria the lunatics of the Washington Post are threatening Iran for "meddling" in the Middle East:

Stopping Iran’s destabilizing behavior is the priority in the Middle East, as senior Israeli, Saudi and Emirati officials agree privately, whatever the public commotion about the nuclear deal. This essential task of confronting Tehran should be easier now that the Iranian nuclear program is capped for at least a decade.
...
What’s the best way to confront Tehran on these regional issues? As with the nuclear problem, the right strategy is a combination of pressure (including possible military force) and diplomacy.

"So yeah. Let's bomb Iran so we can help AlQaeda to swallow up Yemen and Syria."

I remember from years ago travel that the water in Washington DC is heavily chlorinated. Since then, it seems, they added LSD to it.

Posted by b on July 17, 2015 at 15:46 UTC | Permalink

Comments

it must be just a little spillover from those pre 'historic moment' days. not to worry...

Posted by: john | Jul 17 2015 17:07 utc | 1

typical usa warmongering activity... all the while saying they are going after al qaeda, or al qaeda version 2 - isis..

watch what folks do, not what they say.. in the case of the usa - it is often the exact opposite... wait til hilary or whoever gets in power.. it will get even worse.. lies, lies and more lies..

Posted by: james | Jul 17 2015 17:19 utc | 2

"moderate opposition forces".. my question to the usa of propaganda - when does al qaeda and isis get re-branded as moderate? has it already happened and i missed it? do these doofus's think everyone on the planet is brain dead?

Posted by: james | Jul 17 2015 17:20 utc | 3

@3 Not to worry james. All the moderates have been carefully vetted. It eliminates the chance of blue-on-blue incidents.

Posted by: dh | Jul 17 2015 17:34 utc | 4

Aren't the various U.S. intelligence officials and military officers aiding Al Qaeda in these efforts in violation of myriad laws under the Patriot Act? Meanwhile the suckers at home are still routinely being whipped up into an anti-terrorist frenzy. It's truly amazing that not one American politician will call anyone out on this. The show must go on.

Posted by: Gareth | Jul 17 2015 18:14 utc | 5

Robert Parry assigns the blame where it rightly belongs, the US/Israel and Saudi Arabia. "There is a madness in how the mainstream U.S. media presents the world to the American people, a delusional perspective that arguably creates an existential threat to humanity’s survival", and, "Israel’s belligerence, including frequently attacking its Arab neighbors and brutally repressing the Palestinians, has roiled the region for almost 70 years. Not to mention that Israel is a rogue nuclear state that has been hiding a sophisticated atomic-bomb arsenal".

"An objective observer also would note that Saudi Arabia has been investing its oil wealth for generations to advance the fundamentalist Wahhabi sect of Sunni Islam, which has inspired terrorist groups from Al Qaeda to the Islamic State". https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/15/usisraelisaudi-behavior-problems/

Posted by: harry law | Jul 17 2015 19:19 utc | 6

Meanwhile US urge americans to leave Ukraine.
http://uaposition.com/us-calls-on-americans-to-leave-crimea-and-donbass-in-short-order/

Piggo..sorry Poroshenko/US/NATO planning a war obviously.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 17 2015 19:53 utc | 7

ISIL will absorb these other Al-Qaeda and non Al-Qaeda affilities piecemeal if there is no Shi'ite resistance. The reason for continued resistence in Syria and Northern Iraq from Assad's government is Iran, and in Syria's case, Lebanon. Iran helps to stabilize the region and is not as reactionary as sources in the US have people beleive. Am I a Iran apologist? Absolutely not. Though it is important to recognize that they stablize a region that would fall under far more reactionary elements if we are to combat them.

The only hope for a successful counterinsurgency that the US has worked on the past 12 years is to lay off Iran and help them combat the more radical elements advocating Wahhabism in the region. It is not looking good so far and it seems as if the US has given up that goal. What is the end game supposed to look like?

Though an earlier commenter stated that the Saudis advocate fundamental Wahhabism, you can trust that their fundamental Wahhabism does not match ISILs.

Posted by: wc | Jul 17 2015 20:33 utc | 8

b says:

I remember from years ago travel that the water in Washington DC is heavily chlorinated

you're right; and chlorine is used not because it's safe, but because it's cheap. the water is chlorinated and fluoridated and it's not uncommon to find traces of insecticides and herbicides as well. not to mention traces of a vast array of pharmaceuticals including antibiotics, anti-convulsants, mood stabilizers and sex hormones.

DO NOT drink municipal water in the USA!

Posted by: john | Jul 17 2015 20:33 utc | 9

Can someone please help with what the major Iranian nuclear deal concessions were ?

I heard One point, that was that there will be a weapons embargo on Iran for at least five years that the Iranians insanely agree to. And the embargo can easily be extended by the U.S. evil empire.

Are the cowardly Russians still going to abide by the criminal war embargo by still not selling major weapons Iran ?

So not only did Iran surrender so much of its sovereign nuclear power, but also set itself up to be attacked by the US, or its tyranny allies later.

Posted by: tom | Jul 17 2015 20:55 utc | 10

Classic Neo Yinnon Plan under the Zio-Brezhnev Doctrine with the full support of MIC-IMF-WB and it's endgame of ethnic cleansing, ahead of fracking the huge newly discovered Yemeni oil and gas deposits.

'We won, you lost. It's just business, get over it.
NOW GET OFF OUR (STRATEGIC RESOURCES) LAND!'

Eid Mubarak!

Posted by: Chipnik | Jul 17 2015 21:17 utc | 11

9

You should qualify that alarmist statement to say 'Investigate your local water company water sources and treatment methods, and read their quarterly water quality report, as well as taking advantage of your local water testing service (tell them you live in the county on a well).

You'll find North America's water supply is exceptionally high, which is why all commercial bottled water suppliers use filtered tap water, you mook. I can name a half dozen pure spring water municipalities off the top of my head.

Your North American tap water is free of the hormone disrupting aromatic plasticizers found in bottled water, and, of course, doesn't contribute to the MOUNTAINS of non-renewable plastic garbage spilling out of the landfills and into ditches, creeks and rivers, choking 3rd world tourist centers with plastic garbage in places 3-feet deep across the entire watercourse.

Posted by: Chipnik | Jul 17 2015 21:30 utc | 12

Damn, it is simply amazing that the people of the US either do not know this, or do not care (I presume "do not know" becaue of the outpouring of anti-war sentiment over the Ghouta attacks).

The USA created al Qaeda to fight Communism, and continues to use it attack the remaining socialist-leaning countries there are. Apparently 9/11 was just a lovers spat...

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 18 2015 0:00 utc | 13

logistics, our middle name
as long as unlimited jet-a and pallets of cash
will carry on the chaos as ordered, now that China has built up its steel and concrete capacity
new weapons seem kinda lame?

Posted by: Jay M | Jul 18 2015 1:25 utc | 14

I would like there to be a web site to send the non-believers to that is accumulating evidence that the US is committing war crimes. It needs to list the charges against people like Bush W and Cheney that can't go to countries that support the warrants for their arrest.

The American public is, to a large degree, ignorant of the ongoing war crimes being committed around the world by our government. I feel like a German under Hitler.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 18 2015 2:25 utc | 15

I'll believe the Yankees are going to directly attack Syria when I see it happen. Yemen and Iraq are just poorly-defended pissy little countries with no friends. With Russia waiting to pounce, and severely punish any Yankee foolishness, Syria isn't pissy enough for them and the cowardly Yankees won't attack it.

Russia must, by now, have many months of radar-tracking data on Yankee-related airstrikes in the region including bases, refuelling and re-arming zones, and favoured routes - and the ability and capacity to disrupt all of them in a few hours.
Where Yankees are concerned, Talk is one thing but Courage is whole new ball game.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 18 2015 3:09 utc | 16

I admit I have yet to read the full text of the Iran agreement, but from what I have gathered is that many of the economic restrictions will be lifted in return for the closing of their nuclear program. Export more oil, import more raw materials and goods. Pretty standard.

But where does the oversight come from with these programs? It seems that it will follow the familiar pattern of good faith, the breaking of that faith by one side or the other, and thus the return of economic sanctions and the return of the Iranian nuclear program. And since a nuclear free world is not a possibility for the forseeable future, I am at a loss on the pressure put on by Iran. Who is going to acquire these nuclear weapons? Certainly not any of the Sunni radical sects in the region.

This is not a third world country, the Iranians are fully capable of producing their own weapons. Thus, any weapons embargo would be inoperative. It isn't like they are acquiring NATO weapons to begin with.

Posted by: wc | Jul 18 2015 3:20 utc | 17

If only the US could create ideology for other groups! How easy foreign policy could be! Unfortunately, we are much better at providing training and weapons, not ideology. You can control the narrative for sporadic periods of time. But counterinsurgencies take patience and an adherence to doctrine yet adaptability on strategy and tactics.

The US is currently in Syria. The battlefield is constantly changing. Perhaps a strong flanking movement by the "yanks," supported by conventional artillery is a bit outdated of a concept. Much has changed since 2003. Conventional forces in Syria will not occur unless a significant change occurs.

Posted by: wc | Jul 18 2015 3:34 utc | 18

re James @ 2

An NZ viewpoint
Here

:-)

Posted by: DavidKNZ | Jul 18 2015 3:37 utc | 19

re psychohistorian @ 15

"I feel like a German under Hitler."

or a Greek under Germany

Posted by: DavidKNZ | Jul 18 2015 3:41 utc | 20

@5

' It's truly amazing that not one American politician will call anyone out on this. '

The politcal class are not like us. We Americans have 546 enemies in Washington DC and must replace them all with representatives from among ourselves.

The pledge : No donkeys, no elephants. People before animals.

Of course this requires massive, distributed 'grass roots' involvement' ... may the Greeks show us the way.

I imagine the same goes for all the European countries as well.


@6

' Robert Parry assigns the blame where it rightly belongs, the US/Israel and Saudi Arabia. ' Why not the US/Saudi Arabia as well ?

israelis:Judaeism::saudi-wahabists:Islam

The blame from Robert Parry's perspective ought to be laid up to the supplier and enabler of both fundamentalist extremists : the USA and to his own Democrat Party every bit as much as the 'dread' Republicans.

@8

It seems to me that the Saudi fundamental wahabism is identical to the ISIS'. As the father so the son.

b:

It also seems to me that someone among them needs to summon Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Iran to sit down with each other and, pointing to the fate the US/EU are trying to effect even in Greece, convince them to hang together - or they are sure to (continue to) hang separately.

They need explicitly to make common cause and to act in their own regional interests first, and relegate geopolitical concerns to a supporting role for their own common interests. Working together their collective-will will surely prevail.

So what's wrong with winning? With becoming the bedrock of the Middle East, of centering the Islamic world in the Islamic world and in the Islamic peoples and their states?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 18 2015 3:45 utc | 21

@17 The weapons embargo is aimed primarily at the S-300 system. We are constantly being told that it is a game changer because it makes a preemptive attack more difficult. There seems to be some confusion about whether the Russians can now legally supply it. Do the Iranians already have their own version?

Posted by: dh | Jul 18 2015 3:56 utc | 22

@21

The big difference is that the Saudis, who we both agree are fundamental Wahhabists, have an economic model that the Western world both benefits and agrees with. They are capitalists and wahhabists. Whereas ISIL has no economic model to speak of, and from what I have seen have not tried to create one. If they stopped the attacks against soft targets and the executions committed for propoganda reasons, and instead tried to export the oil on their occupied territory, while toning down their rhetoric, I believe it would be a completely different theatre of war today, especially with Assad being such a reviled figure. The US and westerners would be much more willing to work with an emerging government who had the same economic outlook as the Saudis.

Posted by: wc | Jul 18 2015 4:07 utc | 23

@ dh | 22

The weapons embargo is aimed primarily at the S-300 system.

Not really, UN resolutions dont cover defensive S-300, only offensive missiles. Russia received bribe from Israel (drone tech) to break the deal with Iran, and they did. Russia used UN resolution as an excuse, but its just a figleaf. In the nuclear deal, missiles embargo remains for another 8 years, and yet Russia now is willing to fulfill the S-300 contract this year, or so they say.

Russia's in Iran's relationships arent exactly as alies, they just work on principle "enemy of my enemy is my friend", other than that Russia repeatedly backstabbed Iran over the years.

@ wc | 23

tried to export the oil on their occupied territory, while toning down their rhetoric, I believe it would be a completely different theatre of war today

ISIS is exporting oil from occupied territories to EU, Turkey and Israel. Toning down rhetoric might come later, as it happened with other Al Qaeda franchise Al Nusra. Now Al Nusra is pictured as "moderate freedom fighters". If ISIS project wont succeed for the West, they will just create a new monster, while sliding ISIS to current Nusra backseat.

Posted by: Harry | Jul 18 2015 4:31 utc | 24

@23

Saudi Arabia = al Qaesda = ISIS, insofar as 'their' common connection to the US/CIA is ignored. I guess our difference is that I don't view 'them' as 'a good thing'.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 18 2015 4:42 utc | 25

A number of news sources are reporting that most of Aden has been recaptured by the Saudi backed Yemeni forces but no one but the WSJ has claimed that AQAP is involved in any way in this battle.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Jul 18 2015 5:25 utc | 26

..they just work on principle "enemy of my enemy is my friend", other than that Russia repeatedly backstabbed Iran over the years.
...
Posted by: Harry | Jul 18, 2015 12:31:01 AM | 24

My preferred measure of whether Russia has backstabbed Iran is whether Iran has been invaded and destroyed by the "real men" of "Israel" and America. Iran shares a border with Russia. So if Iran is attacked Russia will have no alternative but to help Iran. Medvedev hinted as much when, in a Sept 2009 CNN interview, he described an invasion of Iran as "a humanitarian catastrophe" - referring specifically to a refugee crisis.

Attacking Iran is just another Neocon Daydream/ wankfest.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 18 2015 5:54 utc | 27

@ Hoarsewhisperer | 27

So if Iran is attacked Russia will have no alternative but to help Iran.

Russia would help but only as much as needed so Iran wouldnt be defeated (not like NATO could conquer Iran anyway). Some political cover, some supplies (food, weapons), intelligence, but Russia would absolutely not send forces.

If we look through the history, Russia was always hostile to Iran, and as recent as Iranian revolution and Iraq's invasion. Some people forget, but it wasnt just Hussein/West/Arabs vs Iran, Russia was against Iran as well. Things changed now, but only from hostile to lukewarm relationships, Iranians dont trust Russians, and for a good reason. One thing they can trust on - Russia will do whats best for their interests, so as long as goals align, so will their paths.

Posted by: Harry | Jul 18 2015 6:16 utc | 28

Chipnik @ 12 says:

Your North American tap water is free of the hormone disrupting aromatic plasticizers found in bottled water

yeah, fuckwits, that's terrific, but i'm not talking about what's not in the water, but what is.

Posted by: john | Jul 18 2015 10:53 utc | 29

Posted by: john | Jul 18, 2015 6:53:38 AM | 29

Interesting study. But @ 45,000 deaths per year in a population of ~320,000,000 chlorine rates lower than many common afflictions including deaths caused by carelessness and/or stupidity among the same population.
Genetic susceptibility, if they ever get a handle on it, will prove to be the biggest killer of all. For example smoking only kills some of the people who take it up and others live to a ripe old age.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 18 2015 12:25 utc | 30

Hoarsewhisperer @ 30

there are many manifestations of unwellness between healthy and dead.

i think we're talking about incremental toxicity.

water is the stuff of life and there are better solutions for its treatment...

but chlorine is the cheapest.

Posted by: john | Jul 18 2015 13:09 utc | 31

No way its LSD,it tends towards introspection and violence eschewing,maybe methamphetimines,or yeah,the bottled water.Ever since that became chic the mental capacities of many have shrunk.How the hell people want to pay a dollar a bottle for essentially free stuff is amazing.I never touch the crap,unless emergency.(bottled water)

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 18 2015 15:12 utc | 32

Cowardly Russians?A new term,unseen before.Pragmatic maybe,but definitely not cowardly.Cowards are the bullies like Israel and US who pick on nations unable to fight back.

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 18 2015 16:13 utc | 33

15;Or Britain,under the Nazi loving Royal family.:)

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 18 2015 16:16 utc | 34

Re: water bottled in plastic -- I recall back in 2006 finally realizing just how much plastic leached into even plain water when a man at the head and throat cancer group I was in talked about being able finally, long months after his radiation and chemo sessions, able to stand the taste of plain tap water. It was wonderful, he said, to at last be able to just drink water without gagging. However, he could not drink water bottled in plastic; the taste was awful to him.

Not much to do with the horrors of what the US is doing to the Middle East, but, damn, maybe there is something in the water…especially in plastic bottled water!

Of course, the US will only test chemical additives when they've reached a tipping point in deaths and serious illnesses…. Fookin' brilliant, that.

Posted by: jawbone | Jul 18 2015 16:24 utc | 35

Syrian airstrikes conducted by UK military pilots

Posted by: Vintage Red | Jul 18 2015 16:34 utc | 36

@4 dh and @19 DavidKNZ.. laughing helps a bit. thanks..

Posted by: james | Jul 18 2015 16:48 utc | 37

the narrow political spectrum from Bernie Sanders to Donald Trump just wants to put Humvees in every corner of the planet.
I would laugh if it were not true.

Posted by: anon | Jul 18 2015 17:51 utc | 38

These poor Syrian special forces! I pity them. I worry they will either decapitated by ISIS or killed by Jabhat al Nusra or executed as traitors by the Free Syrian army for refusing to fight against Bashar al Assad.
I wish them good luck, they are the cannon fodder for Saudi Arabia provided by the USA who feels so sorry that the nuclear deal is hurting the sensitivity of the bedouins occupying Arabia.
Nothing more effective than human sacrifices with honor.

Posted by: Virgile | Jul 18 2015 18:02 utc | 39

LSD gets decomposed by chlorine in water. That's the primary reason not to include it in chemical weapons arsenal by the US Army.

Posted by: Michał | Jul 18 2015 19:59 utc | 40

Rg is an LG. Not Rg and LG.

I am amused at the seriousness expressed on this blog. Yes, our water sources are a mess. Taking action on that issue is needed. So, what DO we DO? Bloviate ...

The so-called Iran "agreement" is a mirage.

We (the us in US) want wars that don't get too close to home. And, the elites want more wealth. The globe is teetering on the edge of collapse ... well, at least homo sapiens.

And just how are we going to get a handle on any of this when the only thing we really do is whine on blogs?

Oh, and for what it is worth ... you know what I do?

You got it! I whine on blogs! Just like you.

Posted by: Rg an LG | Jul 18 2015 22:40 utc | 41

US gives up nothing of substance in negotiations with Iran. Unless you really think this agreement will hold up 10-15 years. It is certainly looking like a policy coup for the US and their interests in Iran.


@ 24

In the least condescending way possible, I would like to see those sources. To Turkey, ill buy that. But certainly no legitimate contracts to EU nations or Israel. I agree with your analysis of the missile systems

Posted by: wc | Jul 18 2015 23:37 utc | 42

@ wc | 42

In the least condescending way possible, I would like to see those sources. To Turkey, ill buy that. But certainly no legitimate contracts to EU nations or Israel.

In the least condescending way possible :) Google is your friend. Even 'b' wrote about it.

"Speaking at the European Parliament Foreign Affairs Committee, Ambassador for the EU in Iraq Jana Hybaskova confessed that some members of the EU purchased Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham's (ISIS) oil." http://goo.gl/mdpFWb

"The so-called Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) began selling Iraqi crude oil extracted from oil fields which it seized in recent months and is exporting it through the Kurdish region to Turkish refineries and from Turkey’s Mediterranean port of Ceyhan ultimately to Israel.

ISIS began shipping 100 tanks loaded with Iraqi crude oil extracted from the Ajeel oil field which the Saudi-terrorist group took control of last month. ISIS sells the crude oil at a price ranging between $12-14,000 per tank to finance their operations.

Israeli and Turkish companies who buy the oil use paved roads controlled by ISIS militants and take it through the cities near the border with Turkey to civil refineries inside Turkey or they go through the city of Makhmour to the Kurdistan region in coordination with the checkpoints." http://goo.gl/SqD6XO

Posted by: Harry | Jul 19 2015 1:52 utc | 43

Interesting Harry! Thanks! I wanted to sound interested, not demanding. I will look more into any EU connection. The Turkish-Israeli connection makes sense.

Posted by: wc | Jul 19 2015 3:21 utc | 44

re 43. ISIS-exported oil was never very much in quantity, and I would have thought has now stopped, because the oil-field installations have been bombed. In any case the main consumer was Syria - where else do you think they are going to get their oil, but their own country? The cross-front trade has been going on for years.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 19 2015 7:31 utc | 45

35;As a victim of throat cancer myself,your taste buds and moisture and saliva production are shot from radiation and chemo,and its been 2 years since,and its still screwed up.Sucks,but better than dead.
15;I imagine the Germans thought Hitler was #1 with a bullet up until 1942 or so.

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 19 2015 13:48 utc | 46

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