More on the Tsipras selling out proposal:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-10/tsipras-sells-out-referendum-no-vote-ahead-weekend-deadline

Posted by: ab initio | Jul 10 2015 18:02 utc | 3

Yanis Varoufakis writes in the Guardian: Germany won’t Spare Greek Pain: It has an Interest in Breaking Us
Debt restructuring was our aim: little did we know, when we embarked on negotiations, that Grexit might be a goal for eurozone leaders.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2015 19:17 utc | 5

Syriza as Trojan Horses or White Knights?
Opinion is split into two starkly opposed camps.
Misconceptions, misunderstandings.
I believe Syriza is sincere, this was not a put-up job. In the 5 months suspense and dragging are the result of a very weak, new, opponent who tried to change the conversation and faced shocking bad faith, intransigeance, obfuscatory moves, insults, and threats. And capitulated for lack of …a plan B. Yanis V said repeatedly there is no plan B. (I said this before, and someone snipped right back, how is that possible, a game theorist? Well if you are condemned to death in a locked-up cell, the plan B is suicide, and the result is the same.)
Syriza is not a ‘left’ party. The communist refused to have anything to do with it, and the ‘left component’ of the party will now maybe quit.
Lamenting about pensioners starving and your country exploding, does not make you ‘left.’ Syriza, in a way, took over where PASOK left off, which does not mean they are the same (new ppl set on reform and without the clientelist bent, etc., a fresh approach etc.) It was a last-ditch try at garnering some advantages in the present framework. Saving it. And that is what said they would try to do. Honest.
The PTB will not accept political movements of any stripe, except ordo-liberalism.
Syriza is a Citizen Movement, like Podemos, Cinque Stelle, etc. These can be dealt with. Easily. They can even be encouraged, as signs of ‘democracy’, ‘freedom’, etc. (See one step further, color revolutions, when that suits.)
Citizen Movements confine themselves to the existing geo-political space (1), but request, demand, scream for more re-distribution, advantages or compensation for their voters, etc. More parking places, free internet, better health care, more Gvmt. jobs, debt relief, stipends for the poor, attracting more investment, Keynes galore, some ecological stuff like no fracking, no Monsanto, getting rid of corruption, reforming the tax structure, no surveillance, or getting rid of some pol/king/ etc. and even ‘independence’ (Scotland, Catalonia.) etc. (I support most of these.) And they get nowhere.
1. Syriza, being in the Euro/EU. Both Tsipras and Yanis V. are Europhiles.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 10 2015 19:44 utc | 7

we can soon add Syriza, if not already, next to the list of failures, straight after the Arab spring and Occupy.

Posted by: tom | Jul 10 2015 20:39 utc | 9

I agree with Noirette that Syriza is sincere. I believe the article in the guardian by Varoufakis (that was linked in the other thread), shows the quality of intelligence and capability in this party. (“Germany won’t spare Greek pain–it has an interest in breaking us”)
What chance have the negotiations had, while the Troika, backed by interested EU nations, were playing so falsely and maliciously with Syriza? Tsipras indicated for a long time his preference for staying in the EU; and with an idealistic spirit has sought to appeal through the European Court for Justice, if necessary.
However, I’m convinced that there are sincere people of the left in the coalition, and that Syriza is much more than a citizens’ reform movement.
Whatever the outcome from the last, dispiriting round in the negotiations, the resistance shown by Greeks will continue. I don’t believe that they will lie down and accept to be stripped of their country’s legacy and dignity. They will not give up without a fight.

Posted by: Copeland | Jul 10 2015 21:04 utc | 11

Why Greek PM Tsipras “determine” to remain in EU even with resounding victory of 61% NO votes and would EU finally disintegrate?

Posted by: Jack Smith | Jul 10 2015 21:32 utc | 13

I agree with Noirette that Syriza is sincere.
I believe the article in the Guardian by Varoufakis (that was linked in the other thread), shows the quality of intelligence and capability in this part
I’m convinced that there are sincere people of the left in the coalition, and that Syriza is much more than a citizens’ reform movement
Posted by: Copeland | Jul 10, 2015 5:04:50 PM | 11
Lol
“I agree . . . . ”
“I believe . . .”
“I’m convinced . . . .”
When reading the nonsense quoted above plsremember that back in 2008 the idiot above was telling people to give Obama a chance, and that he might just be the solution to the problems the US was having back then.
Just keep that in mind when reading anything written by this guy.
An oracle or a cassandra he is not

Posted by: yawn | Jul 10 2015 21:49 utc | 15

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11732926/Crippled-Greece-yields-to-overwhelming-power-as-deal-looms.html
Tsipras and Syriza messed with the Greek people. They led them down the garden path of defiance only to surrender when push came to shove. Goes to show they were not fit to govern in the first place as not only have they brought Greece to the brink but did not gain any advantage. Now the Eurocrats have them by the balls and know it. So they will not back down any more. This will weaken the Left in other places in particular Podemos in Spain and strengthen the Right.

Posted by: ab initio | Jul 10 2015 22:01 utc | 17

He, he, he…
I am really glad that Syria/fascists are back to square one. They are just like Beppe Grillo. Phew, White Liberals. Expecting that Greek PM will clash with New German Wehrmacht would be to much.
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/07/tsipras-has-just-destroyed-greece/

This is basically the same proposal as that was just rejected by the Greek people in the referendum. There are some headlines floating around about proposed debt restructuring as well but I can’t find them.
This makes absolutely no sense. The Tsipras Government has just: renegotiated itself into the same position it was in two months ago; set massively false expectations with the Greek public; destroyed the Greek banking system, and
destroyed what was left of Greek political capital in EU.
If this deal gets through the Greek Parliament, and it could given everyone other than the ruling party and Golden Dawn are in favour of austerity, then Greece has just destroyed itself to no purpose.
Markets are drawing comfort from the roll over but how Tsipras can return home without being lynched by a mob is beyond me. And that raises the prospect of any deal being held immediately hostage to violence.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Jul 10 2015 22:46 utc | 19

Greece debt crisis: Athens accepts harsh austerity as bailout deal nears
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/09/greece-debt-crisis-athens-accepts-harsh-austerity-as-bailout-deal-nears

Emphasising the likelihood of further strife in Greece next week even should a deal be concluded, Brussels officials talked privately of plans to fly in humanitarian aid such as food parcels and medicines to major cities.
The urgency of Greek efforts to prevent an exit from the euro came after Brussels set a midnight Thursday deadline for Greece to produce a package of measures in line with previous demands.
The new proposals include sweeping reforms to VAT to raise 1% of GDP and moving more items to the 23% top rate of tax, including restaurants – a key battleground before.
Greece has also dropped its opposition to abolishing the lower VAT rate on its islands, starting with the most popular tourist attractions. Athens also appears to have made significant concessions on pensions, agreeing to phase out solidarity payments for the poorest pensioners by December 2019, a year earlier than planned. It would also raise the retirement age to 67 by 2022.
And it has agreed to raise corporation tax to 28%, as the IMF wanted, not 29%, as previously targeted.

He, he, he….

Posted by: neretva’43 | Jul 10 2015 23:06 utc | 21

It ain’t over til the German lady sings- Greek-businesses-accept-lira-lev-grexit-looms

Amid the chaos, the Greek Drachma has made two mysterious appearances this week (see here and here), suggesting that the EU is on the verge of forcing the Greek economy into the adoption of a parallel currency and while this week’s Drachma “sightings” might properly be called anecdotal, a report from Kathimerini and comments from deposed FinMin Yanis Varoufakis suggest redenomination rumors are not entirely unfounded.
Now, with the ECB set to cut Greek banks off from the ELA lifeline on Monday morning in the absence of a deal, some businesses are mitigating the liquidity shortage by accepting foreign currency. FT has more:
Like many Bulgarians, Kostadin Dobrev, is a regular visitor to the beaches and bars of northern Greece. But this week, the holidaying firefighter immediately noticed things were different. First, the shops were half-empty. Then, even more surprising, he found Greek hotels and restaurants were happy to accept the Bulgarian lev.
As Europe’s politicians prepare for a weekend summit to decide whether Greece can stay in the eurozone, Mr Dobrev’s experience highlights how the old certainties are collapsing. By early next week Greeks could be preparing for life outside the euro and a possible return to the drachma.
Many Greeks in the retail and leisure industry say it makes increasing sense to accept Bulgarian and Turkish money at a time when tourism, the country’s economic lifeblood, is under threat. The tourism confederation said last-minute bookings plummeted 30-40 per cent, compared with the same period in 2014, after Greece imposed capital controls last week.
Athanasos Kritsinis, who runs the Krita chain of supermarkets, said Bulgarians visiting his shops in the northern cities of Xanthi and Komotini were paying in leva.
“There is nothing bad in accepting Bulgarian leva because it is stable and pegged to the euro so why not accept to do business with it? It is legal. There is no reason not to accept,” he said.
Yes, “no reason not to accept.” There are however, quite a few reasons for Germany “not to accept” Tsipras’ latest proposal and for Greeks “not to accept” a deal that flies in the face of a referendum outcome that’s not even a week old.
And so as we kick off yet another weekend where all eyes turn nervously to Brussels on Saturday and to Athens on Sunday, the million dollar question seems to be this: what will the preferred payment method be in Greece this time next week? Lira, lev, drachma, or euro?

Posted by: Nana 2007 | Jul 10 2015 23:25 utc | 23

SCO starts expansion, ratifies 10-year development strategy

UFA, Russia, July 10 (Xinhua) — The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) on Friday ratified a resolution on starting its expansion procedures and passed a comprehensive blueprint for the bloc’s development in the next decade.
The leaders of the SCO states ratified the resolution on starting the procedures of granting India and Pakistan full membership of the organization, according to a declaration issued after the 15th SCO summit held in Ufa, capital of Russia’s Bashkortostan Republic.
The SCO also elevated Belarus to the status of observer from dialogue partner, and took in Azerbaijan, Armenia, Cambodia and Nepal as new dialogue partners…
Meanwhile, the leaders approved the SCO Development Strategy until 2025, which set targets and tasks for the organization’s development in the upcoming 10 years.
Analysts said that with its expansion, the SCO will provide a platform for broader economic and security cooperation within the Eurasian region.
Both India and Pakistan are challenged by terrorism, separatism and extremism. Their entry into the SCO will be a positive step for the two countries to improve domestic security situation, as the rich experience accumulated by the bloc will help them tackle the “three evil forces,” said Chen Yurong, a senior research fellow at the China Institute of International Studies.

‘…to improve domestic security situation, as the rich experience accumulated by the bloc will help them tackle the “three evil forces” : terrorism, separatism and extremism.’
Right. But Barack Obama and his European Unit might cite the same “three evil forces”. Enemy twins seem to converge, to come to resemble each other during the course of their contest so that in the end it makes no difference which one wins. The very fact of the contest misshapes – unifies – the contestants.
Come on Greece! “Birthplace of democracy!”

Posted by: jfl | Jul 11 2015 0:38 utc | 25

Blah. We heard “Syriza is sell outs” within the first week, that they had capitulated. This rollercoaster has been up and down almost uncountable times. Then they refused to deal and held the referendum. Now again, we hear they are sell outs for the latest proposal, which most here have surely read about in NYTimes or in some website full of limp dicked western “leftists” who seem to have joined hands in their “triumph” of pissing on those who have been elected by the Greek people to try and get them out of this austerity.
Look, we even have the neretva’43 laughing as he reads about “Greek failure” written up in a Western rag calling them “fascists”. Scumbag, but you always were.
I’m going to wait until the end to find out. And I’m not going to take the words of some shitty Western newspaper for the details. I do know this: the great majority of Syriza, including the hard left voted for this. So, like all the other times we’ve heard the local snakes cry “sell out!” it may well be a false alarm.

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 11 2015 0:48 utc | 27

And what is this posted by Nana? These are not the words of Steve Keen, this is some other author, so why are you presenting it as such?
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/07/tsipras-has-just-destroyed-greece/

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 11 2015 0:57 utc | 29

Judas!

Posted by: Anunnaki | Jul 11 2015 1:04 utc | 31

Is this not reminiscent of all the flowery rhetoric of the newly elected Barrach Obama back there in 2008; only soon to be followed by the most tragic of political betrayals on Record?
Much the same with Tsipras, the actions are a far cry from the rhetoric. Similar to many analysts, I strongly believe he was among the most disappointed by the “OXI” referendum outcome. He remains forced to carry on with the farce he appears uncomfortable with. Perhaps he shoulf enroll in the Obama school on how to lie incessantly to your public; without feeling any shame.

Posted by: bjmaclac | Jul 11 2015 1:35 utc | 33

#32 he can start by making it perfectly legal to lie in campaigns, ala Obama.

Posted by: Colinjames | Jul 11 2015 2:09 utc | 35

It is important to confront this economic propaganda because it sells a social-pathology which rationalizes “wars of choice.” See how my teacher manipulated our class: Our Teacher Misled Us about Government Spending & Economic Stimulus

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jul 11 2015 2:14 utc | 37

guest77@28- Wait what?
My mistake, he didn’t write this, tsipras-has-just-destroyed-greece, but he did send the link to automatic earth via this article which is worth reading. someone-pull-the-plug-or-this-will-end-in-war/

Yes, it’s still entirely possible that Tsipras submitted this last set of proposals knowing full well they won’t be accepted. But he’s already gone way too far in his concessions. This is an exercise in futility.
It’s time to acknowledge this is a road to nowhere. From where I’m sitting, Yanis Varoufakis has been the sole sane voice in this whole 5 month long B-movie. I think Yanis also conceded that it was no use trying to negotiate anything with the troika, and that that’s to a large extent why he left.
Yanis will be badly, badly needed for Greece going forward. They need someone to figure out where to go from here.
Just like Europe needs someone to figure out how to deconstruct Brussels without the use of heavy explosives. Because there are just two options here: either the EU will -more or less- peacefully fall apart, or it will violently blow apart.

I agree with Jackrabbit- nobody knows how this is going to turn out. Thanks for pointing out my mistake, and noting the pile on of gloating dickheads.

Posted by: Nana 2007 | Jul 11 2015 2:19 utc | 39

Follow-up to my comment @
Tspiras remarks to Greek Parliament:

“For the first time, we have on the table a substantial discussion for a debt restructuring.”

ALSO NOTE: Yanis’ Op-Ed pressures Schauble/Germany to accept the Greek proposal and to agree on other items (debt restructuring, investment, etc.) that are being discussed behind the scenes.
=
Syriza has always sought a comprehensive deal that included structural reforms, debt restructuring, and investment. Those who are calling Tsipras a “sell-out” are not taking into account what is happening behind the scenes. It appears that France and the US, each for their own reasons, are helping to broker the kind of comprehensive deal that Syriza was hoping for.
It may not be everything they were hoping for, but it’s likely to be MUCH better than what they would’ve gotten if they had just quietly succumbed to the Troika back in February.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 11 2015 2:34 utc | 41

fairleft @39: “the problem with Tsipras and most of Syriza […] is a There Is No Alternative to neoliberalism, austerity and the Eurozone ideology.”
Tsipras’ Historic Greek Parliament Speech in Support of Social Democracy – Against Neoliberalism
Care to rephrase?

Posted by: Comrade X | Jul 11 2015 2:45 utc | 43

@41- er, no. Nothing has decisive has happened yet. Besides who am I to say how this should all be going, or anyone else? Am I from Detroit and is Tripras Kwame Kilpatrick? Is nedver 43 a black panther? Jeezum crow this Tsipras/Obama blather has been repeated by ninny hammers since day one.

Posted by: Nana 2007 | Jul 11 2015 2:55 utc | 45

Joshua Tartakovsky, in Tsipras Capitulated, We Owe it to the Greece to Speak Out, says what needs to be said. Unless he is rescued by German and creditor intransigence, he has struck a huge blow against resistance to austerity (see especially the final paragraph in the blockquote below). Things could not have worked out more perfectly for the Troika in their efforts to contain and demoralize resistance across southern Europe:

… Just 6 days ago, this past Sunday, 61 percent of the Greek public voted for its dignity and against capitulation to the Troika, despite the fact that they were placed under economic siege and financial blackmail. …
The last proposal cannot be defined as anything else but capitulation. This is due to the simple fact that it would involve major cuts in pensions and a rise in VAT while Greece would cut 13 billion euros from its budget, which is far more than the original 8 billion that the Greek public voted against. This is not just a capitulation, but a trampling upon the results of the Greek referendum and the will of the people. Germany said it will consider some kind of debt relief, but recent months have made it increasingly clear that the neoliberal austerity intentions of Germany regarding the Southern countries of Europe have not only not gone away but have intensified. …
It is clear, however, that as long as Greece remains in the Euro, it will never manage to pay the debt and its economy will never recover. Leadership is not to accept such a tragic and declining trajectory at face value and offer no resistance in its path. Tsipras’ trajectory therefore sends a double message. First, that despite the popular ‘No’ vote in the referendum and the strong stance taken during negotiations, the bottom line is that there must be a capitulation. This sends the unmistakable message that resistance is futile. Precisely since Tsipras arguably tried and failed, his capitulation not only discourages other Greeks from pursuing a path out of austerity but also demoralizes parties across the continent such as Podemos who may have more courageous ambitions. Secondly, by not educating the public about the potential of an Exit, or at the very least by not being straightforward about the fact that the economy can never recover under austerity, Tsipras has betrayed the public trust placed in him. He was supposed to lead, not to be dragged by circumstances.

The solution to despair is for Greeks to build on last Sunday’s ‘61% against’ vote and continue the resistance, in the streets because the parliamentary ‘post-democratic’ politicians have abandoned you. Good luck!

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 11 2015 3:09 utc | 47

My pet theory is that Victoria Nuland flashed Trsipras the medusa head when they sat down together in March. This Tsipras today is an impostor. The real Tsipras is currently a statue in a rooftop garden in Brussels. Varoufakis is secretly in route to Berlin to slay the minotauress. Merkel. A new age is coming into being. It’s going to be glorious.

Posted by: Nana 2007 | Jul 11 2015 3:15 utc | 49

By the way, this Greece discussion actually began awhile ago, on page two of the Countdown to Grexit. There’s some substance there that informs or should inform some of the comments here. Yesterday, for example, I wrote:
[Bill] Mitchell wrote earlier today, before the austerity capitulation became clear:

… I am still trying to work out an impression of what is going on in Greece and Brussels. … The sheer antagonism of the Baltic States towards Greece is a newly revealed element which is interesting. If their logic prevails then it really is a race to the bottom unless the nation is Germany. Representing the desired benchmark by massive mediocrity if not near disaster (as in Latvia, Lithuania etc) seems to be the new normal in EU debates. Spare the thought. The Baltics should be joining Greece in a solidarity pact to oppose austerity and seek fundamental changes to the EU Treaties instead of siding with the Troika’s death wish for Greece. But there is quite a bit of uncertainty in trying to guage the Greek position. One is led to the most obvious, simple and consistent interpretations of that position – that Syriza is a fractured coalition and those currently in positions of authority (Prime Minister etc) are surrender monkeys who have miscalculated dramatically. But that would tell us that they are acting with such venality towards their people as to be almost an unbelievable narrative. …
[And yet …]
Yes, once again, the so-called ‘progressives’ who think it is fine for Greece to remain in the Eurozone, fundamentally misread the Groupthink that binds the Troika together as a ‘Recession Cult’. …
Anyway the big external spending boost is not about to happen – and really, it never was.
The Troika’s position has really only hardened from ridiculous to something beyond believable – if you sit outside the neo-liberal Groupthink that they are trapped within.

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 10, 2015 10:44:22 AM | 169
There are other good comments there too, including an excellent one by Chipnik at 166.
And then there’s also a lot of wailing about someone named ‘Yves’ … Is that a pseudonym of somebody who actually matters, i.e. someone who posts here?

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 11 2015 3:33 utc | 51

Great comment under that Bill Mitchell post I referred to in comment 50:

Derek Henry says:
Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 4:38
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
These neoliberals know what they are doing, it is not because they are stupid. They know how it works in reality and they have set up so that commercial banks are the ones calling the shots not the ECB.
It’s been a project managed for decades now, it is an asset stripping machine and they know it. It’s exactly how they want it. Ban fiscal policy and let the commercials do that job instead and oh boy it has worked like a dream for the top 1%.
It’s time to stop calling them stupid, our narrative must change. They are deceitful parasites end of story.

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 11 2015 3:46 utc | 53

@jfl #24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IImopHDKcuk
Russia’s Putin and China’s Xi at BRICS summit in Ufa
Watch carefully as President Xi speaks to Putin. The Eng translation is weak. I am fluent in Mandarin. Xi facial expression when he said “met my old friend again”.
in Chinese it carry deeper meaning. “my old friend again” is an exception – someone you know and trusted for donkey years.
I am confident should America exceptionalism showdown with Russia, China will back Putin especially if Japan’s on America side.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Jul 11 2015 4:27 utc | 55

@54
I was thinking that … NATO hegemon, SCO hegemon … they are coming to resemble each other. Although the Chinese are rich enough not to have to stoop to violence. As well, of course, the US berserkers has everyone running their way.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 11 2015 5:34 utc | 57

from RT:

Greece’s parliament has backed a debt restructuring deal, sealing that which is a “national responsibility,” PM Tsipras said during passionate debates. The reform package has already received ‘positive’ reviews from creditors ahead of a crucial EU summit.
Following lengthy Friday night debates in the Greek parliament, the lawmakers have voted to authorize the Greek delegation’s sealing of a deal with the country’s international creditors in accordance with conditions presented earlier this week. […]
“For the first time, we have on the table a substantial discussion for a debt restructuring,” Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras told the parliament ahead of the vote on bailout terms the country put forward on Thursday.
“It is a choice of high national responsibility, we have a national duty to keep our people alive … we will succeed not only to stay in Europe but to live as equal peers with dignity and pride,” Tsipras said.
The PM insisted that with the latest proposals he had won important concessions from the creditors, and the new deal was better than the one rejected by the Greek public in last week’s referendum.

Only 32 NO votes and 250 votes approving the proposal in the Greek Parliament.
I recall that there was an Yves Smith story, that included the scandalous charge that there were two different copies of the agreement, one to be shown to the “institutions” and a whole different version (implying betrayal by Tsipas) to be fobbed off on Parliament? Something might be a little smelly about that story.

The government officials working on a deal appear, by accident or design, to have sent a version of the proposal to Parliament that includes debt relief when the version sent to the creditors does not. There were a couple of junctures at which the Greek team sent Brussels the wrong version of their proposal. But the European Commission and French have come to “help” the Greeks. One suspects that they’ve essentially take over the drafting process despite claims otherwise. It’s not clear how the creditors would be sent a “wrong” version (which would be fatal) or Parliament (which could be read as bad faith). There is a parliamentary vote at 2:00 PM in Athens; that is presumably more than ample time to get this sorted out, but it’s not a good sign.

What was Yves Smith’s intent in passing this story along, which seems little more than a rumor, unsubstantiated by any source?

Posted by: Copeland | Jul 11 2015 6:07 utc | 59

Seamus Milne said it back on July 2:

The real risk across Europe is that if Syriza caves in or collapses, that failure will be used to turn back the rising tide of support for anti-austerity movements such as Podemos in Spain, or Sinn Féin in Ireland, leaving the field to populists of the right.

And we see Golden Dawn, UKIP, and France’s National Front were and are all strongly against giving in to the forces of austerity. Is there a major political party on the left that will join them? What a bleak situation. You can see Farage’s ‘support Syriza resistance’ Euro Parliament speech here, with Tsipras squirming in his seat in response. Obviously something was up …

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 11 2015 7:34 utc | 61

33
Greek debt crisis: Tsipras trolls for $74BILLION in additional debt
MPs approve bailout plan, but some Syriza MPs rebel
Athens Parliament technocrat elite has given Alexis Tsipras the authority to negotiate
a new refinancing bailout by 250 votes to 32, but 17 government MPs didn’t back the plan
Tsipras: We have a strong mandate (wait, I thought the oxi vote was the ‘strong mandate’)
Summary: Motion passed, but Tsipras hit by defections
Tsipras: We can put Grexit behind us (which was the plan all along)
Reuters: EC and IMF give thumbs-up
Story: Day of judgment for Greece
Anti-austerity protests in Athens
See the Tsipras NeoLiberal Austerity and National Privatization proposals here

Posted by: Chipnik | Jul 11 2015 8:15 utc | 63

via Reuters
EU, IMF tell Eurogroup Greek proposals form basis for bailout talks
The European Commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund have told euro zone governments that proposals from Greece for a bailout loan are a basis for negotiation, an EU official said on Saturday.
“The three institutions have made a first joint assessment of the Greek reform proposals submitted Thursday night. Under certain conditions, they jointly see the proposals as a basis for negotiating an ESM program. This assessment was sent to the Eurogroup president last night,” the official said.
That recommendation is an important step before the Eurogroup of euro zone finance ministers meets at 1300 GMT in Brussels to decide on Athens’ request for help from their European Stability Mechanism bailout fund. Ministers’ advisers are due to meet in the Euro Working Group at 0800 GMT.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jul 11 2015 8:35 utc | 65

58
If you really want to take the red pill and go down the rabbit hole, in a three-dimensional chess game, this is just the opening act in a Shakespearean (read ‘Western morality play’) tragi-comedy Greek theater, preparing USAryia for the imminent Poroshenko Second Bailout, using the $58 BILLION that the US RINO Congress just looted from USAryans to form a ‘special fund’, a fund to keep Kerry’s promise to, ‘unconditionally backstop the IMF loans’ that will be made to the Kiev Junta Coup leaders, and which every economic expert has said will never be repaid, just as the IMF has already said the Greek loans will never be repayed~!
That means it’s coming out of your last life savings and my last life savings, savings that are never coming back again.
“BREAKING: Greece Grexit Tsipras Troika Syriza~~!!” What the F*ck~?
The whole media festivus is just PSYOPS for the hoi polloi when Chocolate Emperor strides onto the stage, and begins his aria:
“La, la, we, are white like you and me,
and need more tens billions you see,
that will be looted from you to me,
…
but it’s just business, get over it!”
Well, I’m no quatrain writer, but you get the picture, coming to Western media circuses this fall, just before the Big Crash!!

Posted by: Chipnik | Jul 11 2015 8:57 utc | 67

57
Uhhh, China is building a bunch of nukes of the same style, purchased from the same Toshiba-owned Westinghouse that Japan used.
Uhhh, China has not even begun to riff down their real estate and retail bubbles, the ‘BRICSA’ talks are pure PSYOP, while the
world’s billionaires are busy buying up all the natural resource companies being shuttered by the collapsing commodities bubble,
all part of the Shekinah 2001, 2008, 2015 Global Inter Caetera Etsi Cuncti Intra Arcana.

Posted by: Chipnik | Jul 11 2015 9:19 utc | 69

@60 Do you seriously believe any truly left party will join movements that are far right, nationalist and sometimes openly fascist?
Posted by: Arbat | Jul 11, 2015 3:44:59 AM | 61
I believe any truly left party would join the right on the anti-austerity issue.

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 11 2015 9:34 utc | 71

@70 It’s not “some right”, we’re talking about diehard nationalists. Do you really want to stand arm in arm with people who say that gas chambers were a “minor detail in the history of WW2”?

Posted by: Arbat | Jul 11 2015 9:49 utc | 73

I still think this nightmare is going through (too much Washington Consensus and US political pressure), despite these hopeful signs:

Deal hopes tempered
On the back of that leaked assessment from the Troika, Reuters is now reporting two unamed eurozone officials who reflect the same concerns that the measures will not be enough to satisfy creditors.
“The high figures for financing needs over the next three years may be too high and too sudden” said one official.

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 11 2015 10:28 utc | 75

here’s the link to FOUR HORSEMEN, it’s worth your time.
https://youtu.be/5fbvquHSPJU

Posted by: okie farmer | Jul 11 2015 11:10 utc | 77

Far right Spain Prime Minister gives off hopeful signs of a non-agreement:

New agreement with #Greece “will be worse than the previous one,” says Spain’s PM Mariano Rajoy.

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 11 2015 12:37 utc | 79

However, I’m convinced that there are sincere people of the left in the coalition, and that Syriza is much more than a citizens’ reform movement. Copeland at 11.
Copeland, I agree, I drew with a wildly splashing broad brush to get the point over. And what you say is certainly part of the reason why the Troika did everything it could right from the start to get rid of Syriza / make it capitulate. To the point of making its power felt by shutting down cash assistance / payment system, as an ultimate threat (which it certainly wanted to avoid, it looks very bad, yet at the same time it serves as a threat to others) but which worked.
My point, *for others*, was, this is not a morality play in musty costumes, or Boulevard Theatre with bedroom lies and deceptions, or a game of poker, or negotiations at the Golf Club. It is dirty financial politics, filthy to the highest degree, involves the survival of millions of ppl, and endless unknown facts / variables.
Yanis V. and Tsipras stated they had no plan B (which they hadn’t as far as visible) in the sense of ‘we intend to stay in the Euro – EU’ – for a reason, had they not proclaimed that, made that last ditch effort, they would not have been accepted at all, in negotiations or whatever.
What would have followed idk, but they would have been OUT. Was that a good choice? Many would say not, go it alone, etc. More pointedly, join the BRICS, cosy up with Russia, etc. My spontaneous bent is in that direction as well, sure. But while we are free to judge, we do so on insufficent information imho.
Greece as Ukraine or Lybia is a step too far for all the parties. Specially for the Greeks who prefer to stay alive, sort of for some. For now.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 11 2015 14:55 utc | 81

Legal Working Paper Series No 10 / december 2009
withdrawal and expulsion from the eu and emu
by Phoebus Athanassiou
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/scplps/ecblwp10.pdf
4 Intermediate conclusion
The conclusion is that Member States could not, pre-Lisbon Treaty, withdraw unilaterally either from the EU or, a fortiori, from EMU, and that the only way for them to do so legally would be by means of a negotiated agreement with their fellow Member States. Such an agreement would necessarily involve a Treaty amendment and require the unanimous consent of its partners, in accordance with Article 48 TEU. How likely some Member States are to wish to withdraw voluntarily (however heartily their partners may desire their departure) can only be a matter of speculation. What is clear, however, is that given the serious legal and practical difficulties that the withdrawal of a Member State would entail, and which even negotiations in good faith may not suffice to overcome, those who supported the withdrawal of Member States accused of having ‘thrown a spanner in the works’ of European integration may well have advocated a step which, though politically imaginable, would be legally inconceivable (at least pre-Lisbon Treaty) (90. See Ellemann-Jensen, ‘Ireland must go’, available at < http://www.project-syndicate.org/print_commentary/ellemanjensen16/English >, exhorting Ireland to ‘do the rest of Europe a favor and withdraw from the European Union’.)
This conclusion inevitably raises the question of whether, in the absence of its willingness to withdraw or of an agreement on the procedure for withdrawal, a Member State could be expelled against its will, either from the EU or EMU. Part Two of this paper will examine these questions.
…
Thus, marginalising a Member State, even if not formally expelling it, would not be impossible, but none of the avenues available for achieving it would be ideal. Persuading a Member State to withdraw, by making use of the proposed exit clause or resorting to the regular Treaty revision procedure, may be the better option.
…
In the unlikely event that a Member State withdraws voluntarily or is expelled from the EU, its NCB’s membership of the European System of Central Banks (ESCB) and euro area participation would be terminated, with the departing Member State having to restore its old currency or adopt a new one. Restoring a Member State’s old currency or adopting a new one would inevitably involve considerable risks and difficulties and entail substantial legal complications, including with regard to the validity and enforceability of outstanding re-denominated contracts between debtors in the withdrawing Member State and their creditors. Successfully resolving the issues arising would necessitate very close cooperation between the departing and the remaining Member States. While it may sound attractive, the idea of using the agreement with the Council provided for in the Lisbon Treaty exit clause for negotiating a departing Member State’s continued participation in EMU (even temporarily) after that Member State has withdrawn from the EU (113) is questionable, not least from a public policy perspective.

Posted by: c | Jul 11 2015 16:34 utc | 83

@84 wow… your last sentence – i guess everybody has to be in bed with the imf keeping the world financial system and us$ propped up according to you.. anything else will be defined as the abyss, lol…

Posted by: james | Jul 11 2015 19:33 utc | 85

To everyone here who claim to be a moderate re the Syriza position, name for me all the sovereignty actions the’ve taken to protect themselves from the terror Troika ?
And whether those actions are sufficient ? I’d love to hear it.
All those claims that Tsipras is just one man is not credible what-so-ever. He is the leader of the Syriza party, and in this latest betrayal, the vast majority of this party sided with subjugation. So it’s not just one man is it ? It never was. I look forward to never hearing that poor excuse again.
And who really forced Varufakis to quit, was it the terror Troika, or Tsipras ?

Posted by: tom | Jul 11 2015 21:19 utc | 87

Another day of failure to agree is a good day for Greece (despite Syriza’s best efforts to screw over the bottom 80-90% of Greeks). Germany’s Schauble rejects Greece’s capitulation because he doesn’t trust them, proposes a ‘temporary’ 5-year Grexit. Finland finance minister Alexander Stubb says he has to take any agreement to Finland’s parliament and will have a very hard time getting ‘more loans’ through. Meanwhile, Wall Street, I mean ‘the US’, is applying heavy pressure for an agreement and even more severe austerity for Greece.
How austere can it get? Bangladesh severe? Sure, no limits!

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 11 2015 23:19 utc | 89

@84: ‘The other faction that may be disappointed are those who screamed for the poor Greeks to jump from their precarious ledge so that Russia could profit from their plunge into the abyss.’
Your statement is pro-Wall Street neoliberal nonsense. When Argentina took essentially the same plunge, it suffered 3 months of negative growth and then ‘endured’ 7 years of strong economic growth. Greece’s suffering might be even briefer, since a new, undervalued currency would create an immediate boom in tourism, and that is Greece’s number one industry.

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 11 2015 23:57 utc | 91

b
EU♡RU

Posted by: Chipnik | Jul 12 2015 2:56 utc | 93

86
Tsipras is Menem of the Med. Look at him! Look at his body language!
Para Los Santos, Para Sa Yawa, Pour a 40 on the Ground for δημοκρατία.
It’s just business, get over it.

Posted by: Chipnik | Jul 12 2015 3:11 utc | 95

Typical right-wing Guardian ‘news’ article, but at least it notes some key names worth following (like Costas Lapavitsas) of the honorable resistance:

“I cannot support an austerity programme of neoliberal deregulation and privatisation,” said [Greece] energy minister, Panagiotis Lafazanis, after refusing to endorse further tax increases and spending cuts in an early-morning vote on Saturday.
“If accepted by the [creditor] institutions and put into practice, they will exacerbate the vicious circle of recession, poverty and misery.”
The Marxist [SCARY!] politician, who heads Syriza’s militant wing [MILITANT! IS HE A BOMB THROWER??] and is in effect the government’s number three, was among 17 leftist MPs who broke ranks over the proposed reforms.
Other defectors included the president of the 300-seat parliament, Zoe Konstantopoulou; the deputy social security minister, Dimitris Stratoulis; and the former London University economics professor Costas Lapavitsas. All described the policies … as ideologically incompatible with Syriza’s anti-austerity platform.

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 12 2015 3:21 utc | 97

Sorry to go off topic, but it does say open thread at the top … the Dictator in Thailand has just raised a ruckus by returning 100+ Uighurs to the Plutocrats’ Republic. The assumption is that everything the Dictator does is wrong … he’s Royal Thai Army, in power via smash and grab coup of the elected government, and he and his Royal Thai Navy cronies are in the midst of cutting a deal to buy 4, no make that 3, no make that 2 Chinese submarines – all for the same 36 gigabaht, 1+ gigabuck USD price, the number of u-boats keeps getting ‘refined’ – and they’re going to cut Thaksin’s Universal Health Plan to pay for it – get the infant mortality rate back up where it belongs outside Bangkok in occupied Thailand. The assumption is quid pro quo, for the PRC’s ‘good deal’ on submarines too big to operate in the littoral waters of the Gulf of Thailand.
But Xinhua marshals a story of a (CIA, presumably) ratline of recruits from Xinjiang through Southeast Asia to Turkey and the ISIS. Xinhua gives more detail than is usual in a strictly disinfo campaign … so it might actually be true.
But, never believe anything until it’s officially been denied … U.S. Condemns Forced Deportation of Ethnic Uighurs in Thailand to China, UN ‘gravely concerned’ over deportation of ethnic Uighurs in Thailand to China .

Posted by: jfl | Jul 12 2015 4:08 utc | 99