EU To Greece: Capitulate Or We Will Send In The Turks
"There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt." - John Adams (1735-1826) When the threat of debt slavery not immediately worked some EU "leaders" threatened Greece with war.
Are threats of war now again a "European value"?
During a pivotal meeting with Merkel, French President François Hollande and European Council President Donald Tusk, Tsipras at one point received a thinly veiled threat that if he walked away and left the euro, Greece risked going it alone geopolitically, too.According to two officials in Brussels with knowledge of the exchange, the specter was raised of aggression from Turkey — a neighboring nation viewed in Greece as a historic antagonist.
Even if Tzirpas manages to get the dictates from Brussel through the parliament in Athens no problem will be solved. Debt that can not be paid back will not be paid back. There is no chance that Greece will ever be able to come up with the money it formally owns. There is an assumption that some €50 billions can be raised through a sell off of state assets. Zero to may be €5 billion is realistic. No money will be available for economic expansion. Austerity will kill the sick and old.
That or the Turks are coming? I am not sure what I would choose.
Posted by b on July 14, 2015 at 10:06 UTC | Permalink
“It is the first time that the Western elites are in such a difficult position after many decades of complete dominance. Grexit or not, it seems that they are losing control. What will they do then? Actions as usual in order of magnitude: propaganda - soft assassinations - economic hitmen - hard assassinations - color revolutions - military coups.”
Financial mafia threatens Correa, Greece the next target?
Posted by: nmb | Jul 14 2015 10:27 utc | 2
That or the Turks are coming?Isn't a threat of the Turks a bit old hat? You know, 1683 and all that. The Turks are not threatening Greece. They are, unfortunately, more interested in Syria.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 14 2015 13:01 utc | 3
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/we_are_all_greeks_now_20150712
Chris Hedges
Posted by: okie farmer | Jul 14 2015 13:28 utc | 4
I wonder if this threat to use the Turks might not have been the U.S.'s way of dispelling any ideas the Greeks might have had of turning to Russia for support and handing the U.S. naval base on Crete over to the Russians.
Posted by: lysias | Jul 14 2015 14:49 utc | 6
War, economic war (or worse), within the EU.
Schauble himself said the Greek debt could not be paid back.
The 50 billion income *hoped for* by privatization to be lodged in Lux (?, whatever…) and thus supervised by the EU, besides destroying the sovereignity of Greece, is a kind of hapless fire-sale.
The past, ongoing, similar efforts have been a flop. One article, there are many others:
Political insecurity? Threat of total break down? Greeks having no money to spend? Tourist industry destroyed? Energy prices too high to maintain travel etc.? Idk. But ‘the market’ wasn’t keen even at fire sale prices. Instability is the ultimate anathema.
See what the Hellenic Republic Asset Development Fund is flogging off. Note that there are few ‘truly completed deals’, and they try to cover that up. What is on offer is on the whole quite minor, with betting orgs. having some take up. Ok the ports, but that is buying shares.. the site may be incomplete but I doubt it, they really tried…
Posted by: Noirette | Jul 14 2015 17:09 utc | 7
pushing the bullshite down the road to be resolved in the future.. meanwhile, the hopeless situation remains..
threats and more threats... is this all that international politics has come down to?
refugees from africa, syria and etc are already passing thru turkey headed for europe.. sending some to greece instead won't help out.. i saw the article on the camps on the island of lesbos recently.. only way to get to lesbos is thru turkey.. is that a type of warfare? thank the usa/europe for their continued war in the middle east for creating an ongoing refugee crisis for these countries.. i guess one could blame turkey for that too and a number of other countries. the euro leadership is really out to lunch - paid for by the imf and gang obviously!
Posted by: james | Jul 14 2015 18:56 utc | 8
Well. Now that one of the OGs of western "civilization" is set to be carved up like the Xmas turkey at a Klump family reunion, it's time to speculate on who'll be next. Ireland? Spain? Italy? Not much of a priority perhaps. But what is important to remember is that eventually one of the morsels on the appetizer plate will be you.
Posted by: Some Guy | Jul 14 2015 19:25 utc | 9
The complete capitulation of Tsipras and Syriza will destroy whatever is remaining of the Left in Europe. Syriza has been shown to be another feckless political group in a rather dramatic betrayal of the Greek voters that voted for them and in the referendum.
The question: Would Golden Dawn have buckled? If the answer is Yes, then the Greeks are fooked. They better get used to their enslavement.
Posted by: ab initio | Jul 14 2015 19:30 utc | 10
@7
' The so-called sister company of Depa is Desfa, the gas-grid operator. It was said to have received only one bid. '
Let me guess ... Gazprom? And it was the Chinese who bought the port facilities at Piraeus, wasn't it ? Those sort of bids from outside the Western crime family itself would put a halt to mob hunger for 'privatizations' wouldn't it?
Posted by: jfl | Jul 14 2015 19:35 utc | 11
So the EU shitheads who refuse turkey EU membership due to their religion ( mostly ) are now willing to use Turkey to let them loose militarily against Greece ?
I don't see that happening for a long time, if at all. Seems the threat is not credible in the short to midterm.
Since the debt slavery deal has a three day absurdity window for Parliamentary approval in Greece, these threats are a way to motivate surrender, which Tsipras and most of Syriza are glad to accommodate anyway.
Remember the online jubilation of the referendum from the naifs online. Whatever happened to that jubilation ?
Tsipras and his acolytes used the Democratic values and of human dignity, not even successfully as a bargaining chip, but as fake PR hiding as a fifth column
Posted by: tom | Jul 14 2015 20:06 utc | 12
Dear Greek people, in banking terms; do you know that banks can create money, actually using national currencies, to do things like destroying your country.
So why can't your own government print it's own currency to help the people.
Please ask Tsipras and Syriza.
Posted by: tom | Jul 14 2015 20:53 utc | 13
I'd love to know how much US spying was going on during the negotiations. Everyone in the Eurogroup could probably hear "a mysterious thrid party" breathing and munching donuts in their cellphones.
Laguerre @ #3, Lysias @ #5,
Things on the Syrian front aren't going swimmingly. The Kurds are making some gains along the border. Erdogan is not looking like a genius, much less the New Ottoman Bad Boy. In such circumstances, bullies look for little guys to beat the tar out of. Turkey is not fully a member in good standing in NATO after playing it coy during the invasion of Iraq, now sticking their fingers in too many pies in the neighborhood. Greece, if Grexit, expulsion from the EU, and maybe from NATO lie around the corner, becomes fair game once again for conflicts. There is still that Cyprus thing hanging overhead.
And further, perhaps there are oil and gas reserves in the Aegean, inconveniently for the Turks currently located in Grecian territorial waters. Look tough, make money. Strong incentives for someone arguably certifiable like Erdogan.
Just speculation, but human nature doesn't change. Status (face) and greed can be motivators.
Posted by: JerseyJeffersonian | Jul 15 2015 1:02 utc | 15
That's one way to Grexit, become part of the Turkish Empire.
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 15 2015 2:49 utc | 16
okie farmer @4:
My comment under that Hedges piece:
If Greece Grexited, the international bankers couldn't hurt it nearly as much as Greece is hurting itself by consenting to deeper and permanent austerity. Why is the 'left' making excuses for the sleaze (or stupidity) at the top of Syriza? Do we make excuses for Clinton, or Blair?
Otherwise it was an excellent essay, though repetitive of other stuff he's done ...
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 15 2015 2:53 utc | 17
I've never seen such a massive excuse-making effort on the part of the pseudo-left. Here's another one, Binoy Kampmark's 'The Occupation of Greece: a Financial Coup d’État'. But that's irrational. How can the imposition of worse austerity be a coup d'etat when it could've been thwarted simply by Syriza choosing to leave the Euro?
No, Syriza chose austerity over Grexit. It chose to destroy Greek lives even more and the Greek economy even over. It chose to give the finger to the massive show of anti-austerity popular revulsion on July 5. PERIOD.
Why is the official left pretending Syriza is a victim and not a victimizer? Why is it trying so hard to avert its eyes from obvious betrayal or just stupidity? You're just an economic idiot if you think even worse austerity is 'better' than the Grexit, in even the most fantasy-world conception of a Grexit's potential problems.
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 15 2015 5:11 utc | 18
@18
Blame Syriza don't blame Syriza ... changes nothing. The problem is on the ground in Greece and up to the Greeks to resolve. That they were failed by the political class is strictly dog bites man.
I'm hoping to read of Greek men and women biting back the dogs: of the Greeks forcing their government - changing their government - in defiance of their government - in spite of their government ... standing up and doing what needs to be done.
Without their direct intervention at this point they're done for. 'Nation failed by its politicians', is unremarkable. Happens everyday and twice on Sundays and 'Independence day'. 'Citizens rise and save themselves', is remarkable.
Let the Greeks vote NO! to the latest proposal, and then develop their own : 50 cents on the euro and hands off Greece, or 0 cents on the euro, hands off Greece and we'll make some new friends. Offer's good for twenty-four hours. Take it or leave it. Whatever seems to the Greeks to be the appropriate terms.
We were in Europe while you were off viking. and we'll be staying in Europe while you're off viking again. Going it alone will be rough, but signing your latest proposal is impossible. Politicians of all brands will be fighting each other to walk in front and 'lead' our parade once it begins ... dog bites man. Nothing new there. Changes nothing.
Posted by: jfl | Jul 15 2015 5:43 utc | 19
"But objectively, the process leading to the disintegration of Syriza has already started. Syriza as we knew it is over and splits are absolutely inevitable. The only issue now is how they will happen and what form they will take."
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/07/tsipras-varoufakis-kouvelakis-syriza-euro-debt/
Posted by: ab initio | Jul 15 2015 5:55 utc | 20
@ fairleft #18
"Why is the official left pretending Syriza is a victim and not a victimizer?"
I strongly agree.
And the Spanish "Podemos" apparently follow the same way, even before the elections:
http://movimientopoliticoderesistencia.blogspot.com.br/2015/07/podemos-ya-no-quiere-reestructurar-la.html
They are or cowards, or EU/American trojans as suggested by Engdahl about Varoufakis. Period!
http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20150704/1024206753.html
Posted by: Scan | Jul 15 2015 6:07 utc | 21
The Greek Parliament has a report at its disposal already that the debt entered into by prior governments is invalid, unenforcible and repugnant. When the Greek Parliament is polled on the demands of the Troika Institutions to capitulate totally, their likely best response is to repudiate all debt with the offer to service, after examination, only those debts Greece received benefice. At that point, the financial house of cards is finished, nothing the banksters, the Troika Institutions, the EU itself or the Washington/Wall St./City London axis of evil can do to stay the consequences. A true Sampson Solution to the ignorance and arrogance that has been shown to Greece, the Greek peoples and most of the Southern Euro populations (+ Rep. of Ireland). Education is always a costly project, this will be no different. Will the correct people learn?
It is interesting reading what John Maynard Keynes wrote about this very subject concerning German 'reparations' at the end of WWI. But then that is for someone who's memory isn't measured between nanoseconds and a weekend.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 15 2015 7:10 utc | 22
greeks will have to cede cyprus and its access to gas reserves..only israel can save them.
all hail quint the squint....
Posted by: mcohen | Jul 15 2015 8:53 utc | 23
jfl 19: No, blaming Syriza focuses your street protests on Syriza, and places your protests and general strikes in Greece. That is where the pain and death are, and that is where the austerity attack can be defeated.
Blaming the IMF or the Troika places your protests in, where, Germany? Where Schauble is apparently incredibly popular?
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 15 2015 9:56 utc | 24
Scan @21: Good answers. The purposes of the misdirected protest are ineffectuality, despair, and 'TINA'.
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 15 2015 9:58 utc | 25
@8
This is not the death of the European left. On the contrary, the european left died decades ago. Almost all European left parties and intellectuals have long abandoned anticapitalism. In their words they may refer to marx, in their deeds they are socialdemocrats. What has died is the illusion that socialdemocracy can work (although the same people who supported Syriza are doing their very best to blame anything and everything except their own theory and actions in order to save this illusion). Only now, once we are rid of dangerous illusions, can the left as a mass movement with the capacity to change the course of history be reborn.
There can be no more reforms. There can be no more negotiating with capital. There can be no more class collaboration for the benefit of both. There can be no change through "hope" and dreams and negotiations and hip parliamentary movements who promise a peaceful and pleasant revolution. Now is the time to recognise that only force, only brute violence will stop this era of destruction. Now is the time of class WAR.
Posted by: fullcommunism | Jul 15 2015 10:09 utc | 26
Heh Maybe the IMF(ederal reserve) can bail out greece then.. somebody mentioned the likes of Jeff Bezos and Koch brother coveting private greek islands afterall. For a few 100 billion they can get the opportunity to buy them for a few tens of millions hey?
Posted by: aaaaa | Jul 15 2015 12:07 utc | 28
RT is reporting that the Greek Deputy Finance Minister , Nadia Valavani, has resigned in protest over the austerity deal.
“Alexis, I am ready to serve in any capacity to the end during challenges. However, when our delegation returned with liabilities that are ‘stillborn measures’ and at such a price [by the creditors in fulfilling the reforms program], once again when the dilemma appears of retreating or Grexit, it will be impossible for me to remain a member of the government,” Valavani’s letter reads.She called the debt deal reached Monday a “capitulation” by the government, that’ll hit the Greek people.
“This ‘capitulation’ is so overwhelming that it will not allow a regrouping of forces. With your signature there will be a deterioration in the status of an already suffering population, and this will be a tombstone around their necks for many years with little potential of redemption,” she wrote.
> fair left, ab initio, and fullcommunism, and others.
one point i didn’t add in my prev. post.
This brand of ‘left’ - Syriza, Podemos (worse imho), the French Socialists (differ in other respects) French Left, are total Europhiles. In love…
Their discourse: a better, different, EU - they usually say “Europe” - more social, more integrated, more worker-friendly, and on and on. Look at Yanis V.: he practically wanted to SAVE the EU and the euro (at the start anyway.) Getting them to change is like asking a devout Catholic to Give Up His God! The adherence is really quasi-religious: a-historical, not linked to other beliefs/facts, a question of foundational principles, etc. (That said, it is not why Tsipras folded, but why he had the mandate he had.)
Extreme example, Mélenchon (Left Party) has written a book: Bismarck’s herring, subtitle: German Poison.
A diatribe against Germany, pretty violent. 1 You got it…he is pro-EU + euro. Nuts. M. is educated, he has surely read Spinoza and Nietzsche, he knows history, he is clever and all. I have no idea how he manages the convoluted mental gymnastics, haven’t read his opus.
That is all about to change. Syriza has broken the ‘left EU’ myth.
see for ex. op ed Irish Times July 14 http://tinyurl.com/pt2u7x4
For Greece, this general ‘left’ Europhilia is heightened by the fact that its two enemies Turkey and Macedonia are not members of the EU.
1. from the back cover: .. necrotic .. a grave danger to its neighbors .. arrogance .. a step back for civilization .. a monster .. the child of deregulated finance .. german poison is the opium of the rich .. we must change our lives and change Germany before it is too late .. I denounce the model it imposes for its own profit ..
Posted by: Noirette | Jul 15 2015 13:21 utc | 30
In the WTF department, my Greek is not great, but I sometimes use it for emails and for blog comments.
I'm running Yosemite on a Mac, and a there's a flag on the toolbar for selecting the keyboard language. Two days ago the blue and white Greek flag icon suddenly changed to a black flag with a white lambda. I Googled it and Wiki says a lambda on a black background is the symbol of "unity under distress."
How the hell did that happen? How did the icon suddenly change. Has that happened to anyone else? Is someone at Apple showing support for Greece?
Posted by: Ken Nari | Jul 15 2015 14:00 utc | 31
Noirette @30: Agree completely! The entire "coup" narrative is based on deliberately disappearing the choice Syriza made between Grexit and worse austerity.
For the Europhiles, Grexit does not compute, or is a 1950s 'sin' like masturbation that cannot even be mentioned among decent people. Anyway, a great mass of cognitive dissonance can be avoided by pretending there was no choice.
That's why all I do elsewhere is mention the choice Syriza made! I so far have not gotten a single rational response, in other words a response that argues 'Grexit' (and rejection of the unpayable debt) would be worse than even deeper austerity.
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 15 2015 15:36 utc | 32
23;Yeah,Cyprus was my first thought,and I like that Israeli gas fields thing.Oy!
Full communism;May the world be blessed by the lack of ideologues.
Posted by: dahoit | Jul 15 2015 17:31 utc | 33
Of course there is always a choice, and there is still a choice. I am confused when Tsipras says now, that he is willing to take responsibility for his country's bondage. How can the man take responsibility for Greece, when it means that the country becomes an EU colony instead of remaining sovereign. What would his office as Prime Minister represent under those conditions. He also says he doesn't believe in the new austerity deal, but he is willing to implement it.
Tsipras can sell this to the Pasok and New Democracy MPs and grab a rather sordid hold of a Minority government, but he is facing massive defections from those in his own party, Syriza. This is going to be one hell of a day in the Greek Parliament.
The price that Greeks are being asked to pay is too much.
A new idea has been shoved into the foundations of the EU – the idea that a member state can and will be brought to heel. And brought to heel, not quietly or subtly, but openly and ritually in a Theatre of Cruelty designed for that sole purpose.--Fintan O'Toole. THE IRISH TIMES (from Noirette's link @ 30)The whole idea of making flagrantly provocative demands – the initial insistence that €50 billion of Greek public assets be placed in a fund in Luxembourg being the most spectacular – was to demonstrate, not just to Greece but to all member states, that the EU is now a coercive institution.
And as a coercive institution it has moved into a state of profound division. There is no deeper divide than that between those who are punished and those who do the punishing, between those who are brought to heel and those who shout “Heel!”
The writing was on the wall when Varoufakis got wind of the doctrine according to Schaeuble, that elections held in member countries that are being financially bailed out, are meaningless.
fairleft, I’d like to address the “coup” meme in the Greek context, and why it makes sense to speak of it.
The Tsipras government is a coalition within a coalition. Let me explain briefly, very briefly. First Syriza, is a coalition party made up of several entities. The main one on its “left” is the Left Platform, led by Panagiotis Lafazanis, Minister of Productive Reconstruction, Environment and Energy and the most important politician leading the anti memorandum forces within Syriza. He is pro Russian, and has negotiated the Turk/Greek Stream with Gazprom.
The other main component within the Syriza coalition are the people who drifted in from Papandreou’s collapsing PASOK, which before the anti austerity Syriza surge in the January 25 election, brought its popularity from roughly 4% to 17%, thereabouts. This component is more amenable to the deal.
OK, this is, roughly speaking, Syriza. The other coalition component (the governing coalition as opposed to the Syriza party coalition) is Syriza and the Independent Greeks, led by Panos Kammenos. ANEL is nationalistic, eurosceptic, severely anti corruption, anti German, and pro Russian. Needles to say, both the “left” and the “right” in the Syriza government are anathema to the Europeans, particularly the Germans, and to the Greek oligarchs, partners in corruption with German industry (Siemens, Rheynmetal, etc).
Finally, the “coup” meme. If the Germans (Dutch, Balts, Slovaks, Poles) succeed in breaking up, first the internal Syriza coalition via Lafazanis, second the government coalition via ANEL, the government will fall. For this very reason the Germans pushed such extreme positions on Tsipras, and exerted economic blackmail by shutting off liquidity, therefore the banks, after the OXI referendum. To make the Tsipras capitulation unacceptable to both coalition partners, and break up the Tsipras government, then install a government to Berlin’s liking.
The following days will tell if the “coup” succeeds. The Europeans (Germans) have already notched up a success in the coup department, with the help of Greek compradors — that of Papandreou after he proposed a referendum. So far, ANEL is holding with Tsipras because they have nationalistic, anti corruption fish to fry.
The left, however, is standing on its opposition to the deal, and will likely bring about Tsipras’s resignation, thus ushering in another same old same old government by oligarchs, corrupt media, and high income tax evaders.
The alternative proposed is the drachma. Perhaps, but I am not competent in economics to judge the feasibility of this given the five months allocated to Tsipras since his election, and with the Greek banks shut, money supply vanishing, and the Greek economy in total disarray. I myself favour the drachma and Greece leaving the Eurozone…maybe one day. Perhaps you are better informed regarding the feasibiltty of the drachma option given the Greek circumstances?
Finally, for an interesting alternative view of Schauble/Merkel, see the recent Alexander Mercouris article in Russia Insider.
Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jul 15 2015 17:42 utc | 35
The Euro-Summit ‘Agreement’ on Greece – annotated by Yanis Varoufakis
"Read and weep", as Yanis says.
Tsipras is scheduled to meet with the president of Greece.
Most likely elections in the offing. Greece's oligarchs smell blood.
Rinse, lather, repeat.
ps the overwhelming number of Greek citizens support the euro and and EU. I'm not sure how many support Tsipras at this point, but the pro eurozone numbers have been steady since before and after the election. Tsipras has got himself tangled up in this conundrum, and he's going to pay taking the easy rhetorical road.
Maybe it's time for Greeks to choose honestly what they want. They've been trying to go both roads too long, easy EU transfer lolly when times were good. I favour the drachma, but then, I'm not in Greece.
Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jul 15 2015 18:46 utc | 37
One more thing I’d like to comment on regarding the OXI referendum. My last comment for the day.
The question was on the eu proposals. The Eurocrats chose to portray the referendum as about the euro, as did their internal greek toadies, thus a campaign of political terror was unleashed inside and outside Greece. They knew Greeks favoured the euro, by a big margin.
Thus the idea that the referendum was about the Euro, which fooled a many of people, including a lot on the left. It was never about the euro, but about Eurocrat proposals of the hor. Greeks knew this wasn’t the question about the euro, so they voted overwhelmingly OXI.
The Germans and their allies proceeded sadistically to teach the Greeks who voted OXI, 80% young people, a lesson for their insolence, and now we are here.
Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jul 15 2015 18:58 utc | 38
From Greek Reporter:
Former finance minister Yanis Varoufakis said in parliament that the new bailout agreement proposed to Greece is doomed to fail, calling it ” Versailles Treaty,” and stated he will vote against it.Varoufakis accused German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble of working hard to bring back harsh memoranda because the Greek people voted “no” in the referendum.
“The troika, in cooperation with Schaeuble, was waiting to drag Greece back into the catastrophic clarity of the memoranda,” Varoufakis said.
“We suggested an honest deal – a bridge deal jointly drafted with the Chancellery of Germany to prevent Dr. Schaeuble,” he said, “But the troika with the institutions and Dr. Schaeuble worked hard to restore the hard and toxic memoranda.”
The former minister cited economist John Maynard Keynes in his speech. He argued that powerful European countries demanded terms they were not entitled to claim. “What we have before us is a new Versailles Treaty,” he said, adding that with this agreement Greece will remain a debt colony.
Varoufakis also expressed the opinion that the agreement will not materialize because the International Monetary Fund “refuses to participate.” Also, because the European Stability Mechanism will refuse to proceed without the involvement of the IMF.
“Unfortunately, once again, we are dragged to debt restructuring after the failure of the program… Everything will depend on the restructuring of the debt,” he said.
@30 @37
' ps the overwhelming number of Greek citizens support the euro and and EU. '
Looks bleak if that's the case ... but the euro and the EU are not 'Europe'. The struggle is between transnational corporate finance and humanity, taking place in Europe, in Greece.
Posted by: jfl | Jul 15 2015 19:39 utc | 40
@39
So the US is going to 'take charge' of its European Unit directly? That seems to be what Varoufakis is saying with his talk of the IMF as spoiler of Dr. Schaeuble's 'cure'. I cannot believe the US' cure will be any less fatal to Greek sovereignty.
Posted by: jfl | Jul 15 2015 19:58 utc | 41
Syriza Leadership Reject 'Humiliating' EU Deal for Greece
“The proud NO of working people in the referendum does not allow the government to give up in the face the pressures of the creditors.”The rebellion of a majority of members of the Syriza central committee comes hours ahead of vote by Greek lawmakers on the deal reached with creditors. Their dissension also essentially means that the prime minster has lost the support of his own party.
But what will the Parliament do? I guess that's what's got the US' IMF spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt about Dr. Schaeuble's cure?
Greece as a Euro ‘Economic Protectorate’
That settlement, should the Greek parliament vote to approve, will result in Greece not only losing control of its currency and monetary policy, as it did by joining the Eurozone. It will mean another deep loss of economic and political sovereignty. Like the terms of a treaty, the parliament will not be able to legislate changes later. The Privatization Trust Fund will remain in control of Eurozone bureaucrats who will oversee the management of the fund, make its decisions, and sign its checks.
If 'their' Parliament doesn't vote NO! the Greeks are going to have to do it themselves.
Posted by: jfl | Jul 15 2015 22:54 utc | 42
@ 31
I asked why suddenly the Greek flag on Mac's menu bar was replaced by lambda on a black background. The new icon apparently means "Unite under Oppression." Pretty outspoken for Apple. Too good to be true. Turns out Apple just is gradually doing away with national-flag icons, and lambda on black stands for Greece. Apple couldn't have chosen a better symbol.
@ 37
One reason so many Greeks want to remain in the EU may be because as much as one-fourth of the Greek work force is outside of Greece and sending money home. A Grexit could cost Greeks the right to work in other countries of the EU
Posted by: Ken Nari | Jul 15 2015 23:10 utc | 43
Greek parliament approves debt deal and first reforms to avert Grexit
ATHENS, July 16 (Xinhua) -- Greek parliament approved on early Thursday an omnibus draft bill ratifying the debt deal the government reached with creditors on Monday and the first round of reforms requested as prerequisites for the immediate release of international aid to avert imminent default and Grexit.The plenum passed the bill that paves the way for the finalization of the Greek third bailout and introduces a first set of taxation and pension system reforms, with 229 votes in favor out of 299 MPs taking part in the roll call vote. On the other hand, 64 deputies in the 300-member strong chamber voted against the bill and six lawmakers abstained.
Up to the Greeks themselves.
Posted by: jfl | Jul 16 2015 0:21 utc | 44
Zero Hedge is reporting that the Greek Parliament just passed the atrocity, the self mutilating capitulation. What a dark day this is!
@45
While I agree that Greek Parliament could better represent Greek citizenry, we both know that concept has been deprecated in favor of plutocratic rule.
I just read an article that quoted Tsipras as saying he signed the agreement with a knife to his throat. This whole kabuki has a few scenes to go before casting some of the actors into the pits of hell.
What is sad about it all is the suffering that must go on as part of the ongoing sickness that is global plutocratic inheritance and accumulation of private property.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 16 2015 1:09 utc | 46
Well, it seems that the conversation about Greece has moved here. I wrote a few comments on the last thread that may be of interest to anyone interested in Greece.
= = = =
Basically, what I wrote is that I doubt that the Summit Agreement will survive the needed vote of approval from the other EZ governments.
This deal is toxic. But as bad as it is, it may be worse for the EU/EZ than it is for Greece. Greece will get:
1) debt restructuring/re-profiling (the IMF has set the baseline: 30 years of no interest)2) the likelihood of a revamping of the EU/EZ which will bring an opportunity to change the terms which amount to colonization;
3) time to prepare for GRexit if #1 and #2 do not happen or are not sufficient.
As Yanis has noted (forefully), Schauble's alternative to a totally prostrate Greece was GRexit. The Summit Agreement only increases the risk to Europe - and especially to a German dominated Europe because: 1) the debt grows, and 2) the problem is NOT solved.
After the embarrassment of the referendum, the Troika/EU/EZ/German HAD to show a willingness to do a deal that would keep Greece in the EuroZone. That doesn't mean that a deal will actually happen.
Aside: in it's vote about the Summit Agreement, the Greek parliament was in same position as the Greek people at the referendum. Each was voting on a proposition that wasn't technically available.
It seems very likely that one or more of the Parliaments that have to approve the 'deal' will NOT do so (Netherlands and Finland are prime candidates). They will use the IMF Report as an excuse (to 'save' Europe from a Greece that can not be 'trusted' - note Tsipras' complaints/bad mouthing in his recent interview). Importantly, assuming that one of the 'dissenters' is NOT Germany, Merkel and Schauble will be pleased that Germany would not be directly/fully at fault for GRexit.
=
What follows if the Summit Agreement is not approved? Europe should provide technical and humanitarian assitance to the Greeks (they have a moral obligation to do so) - making a GRexit in 3-6 months less of a disaster than it would otherwise be. Greece would remain in the EU. And AFTER A DEFAULT (as required by German/Finland/et al.) Greece would get a debt restructuring that might be in the form of a writedown.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 16 2015 2:28 utc | 47
Posted by: Copeland | Jul 15, 2015 2:32:31 PM | 36
Thanks for posting YF's sobering critique of the non-bailout bailout.
There are striking parallels between the financial deal offered to Greece and the Nuke deal offered to Iran.
In each case there is a studiously unexamined presumption of "guilt" (blame the victim?).
Each 'deal' could be portrayed as an offer (from a gaggle of wealthy & arrogant Colonial Vampires who specialise in crippling countries) to kelp their victim walk again. But only if the victim promises to shoot himself in both feet as a pre-condition.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 16 2015 2:44 utc | 48
The Greek people finally respond. The house of cards is beginning to capitulate......
http://rt.com/news/273934-teargas-athens-protest-bailout/
Posted by: easy e | Jul 16 2015 3:00 utc | 49
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 15, 2015 10:28:59 PM | 47
Nice idea but it overlooks the Greed factor. For at least 40 years Capitalism's course has been controlled by people for whom too much private wealth could never be enough.
Phase I was the privatisation of commercial property (via the Leaseback tax break scam) and residential property (via the negative-gearing tax break scam).
Phase II appears to be the private ownership of entire countries. And if Greece succumbs it will be merely the first of many more.
None of this would matter if the rich weren't so greedy and adept at tax-evasion and avoidance. But they are getting better at buying governments and legalising tax (and regulation) rorts.
The poverty caused by current levels of plunder by the wealthy can be explained largely by changes to taxes on the rich since 1960, worldwide. As one example, UK's top marginal tax rate in 1960 was 95%+. And most countries had (ant-accumulation) Death Duty/Tax (UK, almost uniquely, still does although not as stringent as in the 1960s).
Spin tanks, paid for by the Rich, successfully conflated the concepts of "Fair" and "Responsible" tax regimes as a convoluted variation of Democracy.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 16 2015 3:53 utc | 50
RT:
"6 Turkish fighter jets violate Greek airspace"
" A formation of six Turkish fighter jets reportedly violated Greek national airspace on Wednesday, local news sites in Greece quoted defense officials as saying. Overall, 20 transgressions were observed in the northeastern, central and southeastern Aegean Sea, which borders Turkey. Two of the jets were armed. The whole formation was reportedly escorted out of Greek airspace by the country’s fighter jets."
Posted by: anon | Jul 16 2015 5:04 utc | 51
Even WSWS has fallen into the 'coup/blackmail' narrative promoted by Syriza excuse-makers who want to misdirect working class anger. I respond:
It's unfortunate to see WSWS fall into the "dictated," "coup," "blackmail" narrative foisted on us by Syriza excuse makers. Syriza had a choice, Grexit or deeper austerity. (I note that, like much of the mainstream analysis, you don't even mention the word 'Grexit' in your report/analysis.) Syriza chose austerity, and having that choice means it was neither blackmailed nor dictated. Instead, the problem is with Syriza and either its corruption or its irrational but apparently unbreakable love of the Eurozone. Probably both.
Thrasyboulos @35: Thank you but your explanation of the coalition is irrelevant. There is no 'coup' if there is a choice between two alternatives: Grexit, reinstatement of the drachma, or deeper austerity. Syriza chose deeper austerity and that is its responsibility and to its complete discredit. No one forced them not to Grexit. You write:
The alternative proposed is the drachma. Perhaps, but I am not competent in economics to judge the feasibility of this given the five months allocated to Tsipras since his election, and with the Greek banks shut, money supply vanishing, and the Greek economy in total disarray. I myself favour the drachma and Greece leaving the Eurozone…maybe one day.
None of your 'poor Syriza/Tsipras' excuses are relevant, because Grexit is perfectly doable, takes minimal advance planning, and there is much experience with currency changes. It's all explained in Bill Mitchell's easily understandable essay, A Greek exit is not rocket science.
The more important thing to do is to compare what Syriza decided to do to Greece -- abuse it with massive, life-shortening, despair-maximizing austerity -- with what could have happened if it had decided for 1., Grexit and a relatively undervalued drachma, 2., renouncing its unpayable debt, and 3., installing a common-sense, Keynesian, deficit-financed (in drachmas) economic development/recovery program for Greece. Think about that. It could've started on July 5, the day 61% of Greece rejected an austerity plan much less severe than the new Syriza Austerity.
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 16 2015 6:24 utc | 52
"A Grexit could cost Greeks the right to work in other countries of the EU
Posted by: Ken Nari | Jul 15, 2015 7:10:21 PM | 43"
No, exiting the EU would cost them that right, and no one suggests Greece leave the EU.
Exiting the Euro costs would benefit Greek workers in the Eurozone. With a relatively undervalued drachma, they would be richer whenever they visited Greece. One of the main points of a reinstating the drachma is to undervalue it and make Euros (and other currencies) go farther in Greece, thus creating a tourism boom. This would have the same nice effect on Greek workers visiting home, or on the money they send home.
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 16 2015 6:32 utc | 53
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 15, 2015 11:53:13 PM | 50
Well, we've already seen lots of twists and turns.
The fact is:
> The British refuse to be a part of any solution;> The IMF do not want to be involved;
> How the 'bridge loan' happens is still uncertain;
> Yanis spoke of how Schauble wanted to see a GRexit;
> The IMF Report makes it clear that the Greek debt problem is bigger than people have been led to believe;
> The Summit Agreement - which only authorizes negotiations - must be followed by negotiations that will add weeks of uncertainty;
> The 50bn Euro Privitization was tried before and failed.
> European and Greek economies are unlikely to improve much in the next 3 years so this 3rd bailout only increases the problem (considerably).
>The Greeks are a convenient scapegoat now - but the more that the can is kicked, the more the European public will see the Euro core as being at fault. With #itsacoup, that process is already well underway.
The timing of the leaking of the 'secret' IMF Report is also questionable. The IMF had already said that they would not be a part of any third bailout unless there was debt restructuring. Yet everyone assumes that the Report was released because the IMF doesn't want to be involved.
At the Summit negotiations Tsipras had pushed for the IMF to NOT be involved. So the IMF could've simply made their position clear (again) to Germany and 'the Institutions' privately. Instead they publicly described the full extent of the problem. This publicity didn't help the Greeks because it has already been agreed that they will not get debt restructuring/re-profiling until a positive review - which is many months away. It does, however, broadcast the magnitude of the problem to Euro Parliaments (and their citizens) that must approve the Summit Agreement.
I have no crystal ball. Like everyone else, I will be waiting to see what happens. But if one or more Parliaments do not approve of the Summit Agreement, it seems to me that the IMF Report will be a major factor in their vote.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 16 2015 6:34 utc | 54
Hoarsewhisperer @48:
Your analysis is nonsense. Greece was offered a horrible deal but it had the alternative of Grexit. It chose austerity over Grexit.
Why? If Greece just said, "later bro," the ECB and the Troika would have few politically realistic coercive options. (A Turkey invasion is not realistic.) The most obvious explanations from the record are that Syriza are Eurozonephiles and prefer the Euro, or they may have been foolishly fooled by some nightmare portrayals of Grexit, or they are simply corrupt and on the take. None of those are excuses, and all of them are good reason to direct our anger and activism at removing Syriza from power and replacing them with an authentic anti-austerity alternative.
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 16 2015 6:45 utc | 55
jackrabbit@ 47: "This deal is toxic."
Tentatively I came to the same conclusion about the vote of approval, following on the perception that in order to make as bad a deal as possible and as hard a compliance, the EU ptb were in effect already abandoning Greece. This gives an interesting twist to Tsipras' insistence that the Greek parliament must vote yes, though I doubt his intention is more than just to knuckle under and have some sort of relief for the immediate term. I could be wrong on that, but thanks for the reminder that the chicken's barely hatched - just a tapping on the inside of the shell so far. I do wish it were strong enough to break out on its own!
Posted by: juliania | Jul 16 2015 6:49 utc | 56
7
Noirette, I read everything you post, your intellect shines clearly, but you don't seem to 'get it' on Greece. The watch phrase: "We won, you lost. It's just business, get over it!!"
George Carlin's famous rant against the Oligarchs ends with 'And now they're coming for your Social Security (pensions), and you know what, they'll get it, ...they'll get all of it."
What did he mean by that? Hell, they can't just loot a Trust Fund, now can they? Instead, the Oligarchs set up stalking horses around the globe, Greece, Ukraine, Ireland there must be a couple dozen countries now more upside down in credit-debt default than even Zimbabwe.
Then the Banksters make the 'loans', which after all, are just dots-and-dashes semaphores for, 'Ha, ha, we just hit to create your perpetual Interest Only Forever debt."
And if the countries pensions being preyed upon default, then IMF-World Bank underwrites the loans and the US Private Fed Bank backstops the IMF, itself a private bank, just as Kerry promised $38 BILLION looted from US citizens' pensions to backstop IMF loans to Ukraine.
This is referred to in financial circles as BICYCLING FUNDS, bicycled from private debt into public debt, and then from public coffers into private offshore tax havens. VAMPIRE SQUID~!
If you need a visual analog think of: IMF-ECB is just FRACKING Greece for their pensions.
This is the greatest looting event in all of human her/history, perfected by Reagan, Thatcher, Menem ..., then after the 9/11 Mil.Gov Coup, metastasized around the world.
Fewer words?
Guerra la Deuda de Crédito de los Oligarchicos y Technocratos Parasitoids en los Ciudadanos.
Por los santos, por sa yawa, pour a 40 on the ground for all of us....
Posted by: Chipnik | Jul 16 2015 10:19 utc | 57
47
South Carolina is far more credit-indebted than Greece, but the United States was already taken over by the Private Fed Bank Coup a CENTURY ago, and they forgive the debt, while the Technocrats live off a $4 TRILLION a year skim, ...and of course, Oligarchs own everything. These are also the States with the highest number of people on Federal welfare, like Greece.
If "the USA can never default, because the Fed can always print more money," then what are Federal Income Taxes for?! For the purpose of BICYCLING OUR PENSIONS INTO THEIR TAX HAVENS~!
2/3rds of all Federal contracts disappear down the Black Hole of IDIQNB war profiteering, a Deep Mil.Gov that we know loses track of $250 BILLION every year and will never be audited.
Oh, look! A squirrel!
Posted by: Chipnik | Jul 16 2015 10:55 utc | 58
Hoarsewhisperer @48:
Your analysis is nonsense.
...
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 16, 2015 2:45:59 AM | 55
It isn't analysis. It's a superficial analogy.
But as well as not being analysis, it's not nonsense either.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 16 2015 14:13 utc | 59
Hoarsewhisperer @59
Sorry, only your analogy was nonsense. The analysis was ... uneven.
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 16 2015 14:46 utc | 60
fairleft at 32, see, we can figure it out and agree on some points……Grexit is simply horror, anathema
Jack Rabbit at 54 had this, which corresponds to a prev. post of mine, where I pointed to the prev. privatization program failing (in part, as for ex. the Greek railways have been more or less privatized already, with disastrous results, not in the news…)
The 50bn Euro Privitization was tried before and failed
As I pointed out, though it wasn’t 50 b. I wrote that I did not understand why. Got it now. It is because local laws in Greece hinder, restrict, legislate, re-development, construction, transformations, right of way, road building. So a fantastic beach island-front property - but you can’t demolish it, transform it, or build a marina, or kick out a peasant who has a tiny field, or build a hotel, etc. (Not impossible and the ex. is exaggerated, but a hard road, risky, wearisome, subject to local objections, costs a pile, lawyers, etc.)
Ppl looked into these fantastic fire-sale glory deals, and retreated. As is easy to understand, property rights in Greece (see for ex. land registration, a mess, subject to challenge to put it mildly, you can be in the courts for years, taxation uncertainty and more) are not well consolidated or protected. That is why the lotteries and the like got more buyers, the legistlation is simpler. Just shuffling money…
Posted by: Noirette | Jul 16 2015 15:36 utc | 61
Poll by Kapa Research published 14/07/15 and conducted post deal.
51.5% consider the deal “positive”.
72% vs 25.3% consider the deal “necessary”.
70.1% vs 25.3% consider that the deal must be voted by the Greek parliament.
64.5% vs 31.2% are against new elections.
48.7% say the Europeans are to blame, while 44.4% say the Tsipras government is to blame for the deal.
68.1% say Tsipras must remain prime minister in any new government. 22.6% would favour another person.
Tsipras favourable 58.8%, unfavourable 40.7%
The attempted political coup by Greek compradors and their foreign dog handlers did not succeed.
Government reshuffle in the offing. Elections maybe in September/Octoger, Grexit maybe further down the road.
Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jul 16 2015 17:10 utc | 62
"The attempted political coup by Greek compradors and their foreign dog handlers did not succeed."
Is that "not" an error.
Of course with all the media and NOW Syriza megaphoning the same 'necessary' line, and the opposition disorganized and in despair, you get those kinds of numbers. We wait three months, see the catastrophic effects, and the Grexit forces coalesce, we see vastly different numbers. The unreasoning, groundless fear of Grexit will diminish. It will diminish most if the left unites, stops being Syriza and Eurozone apologists, attacks the Greek (not German) oligarchy, and keeps patiently explaining how Grexit AIN'T Rocket Science. (See Bill Mitchell and Billyblog).
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 17 2015 3:08 utc | 63
It would seem, should someone have their hands upon your neck and throttling the life out of you, the practical thing to do is to stop by any means their continuing that strangulation. Submission (agreement) is normally the most immediately useful signal there is. That the Greek Parliament has done, the banks have been promised ESM backing, how this translates to citizen account withdrawals remains to be seen, but funds should be available to the banks, for liquidity, in the very near term (supposedly). An old saying to the effect: "It is difficult to remember you are there to drain the swamp when you are up to your a$$ in alligators", applies to the Greek Parliament in their attempt to serve the best interests of the Greek nation. Without having a well considered plan 'B' or 'C' with which perspective judgments can be compared, there was little else the Parliament could practically do. However, no agreement entered into under duress is binding. Time only will tell whether the agreement holds or fails, time to explore and consider any number of alternatives, their benefits, their costs, and their efficacy. If repudiation of all questionable debts is chosen, it starts the clocks on the Troika Institutions themselves to try to stay their own collapse, Greek exit can provide shelter until another set of institutions more amenable replaces the current cohort of economic thugs.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 17 2015 7:59 utc | 64
Formerly T-Bear @64: You're being naive and overly trusting of Syriza. Not that it would have taken a great deal of time, but why did they not create a Plan B? The answer to that question is obvious: They knew they would prefer the Eurozone no matter what conditions were attached. Nightmarish conditions: fine.
When you leave your parachute behind and jump from an airplane, trusting you'll be able to cling to your notorious psychopath instructor ... You can do the rest.
Posted by: fairleft | Jul 17 2015 12:19 utc | 65
@ fairleft | Jul 17, 2015 8:19:51 AM | 65
Since you don't seem to have any idea of what has transpired between Syriza and the Troika Institutions starting before Syriza was elected, please refrain from using naive, your sources of information are better suited for propaganda dispersion. Syriza has been faced with some daily crisis with the Troika Institutions in some form or another and had been responding to demands rather than establishing their programme. You also obviously have some provincial concepts about what was built upon the 1958 Treaty of Rome, dangerously close to wilful ignorance, your horizons are that of a backwoods valley hillbilly for that matter. When FDR established the New Deal, he had both time and public discussions to educate with, Since January, neither has beed available to Syriza except in your vanilla yellow skied world. I think it is the projection of your own naïveté you perceive.
Since this is also the anniversary of MH-17, you probably still think a BUK brought the plane down, is that where you got your parachute implant?
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 17 2015 14:55 utc | 66
A small additional note. Greece can kiss off the latest 'delivery' of financial assistance of which something like €7.5 billions goes directly to the vaults of the fabulously endowed European Central Bank, probably to forward the non-EMU banks of Romania, Bulgaria and of course Ukrainian fascists in their civil war. Greek Banks will remain closed again Monday - no relief cash on the horizon for the Greek people.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 17 2015 18:30 utc | 67
The comments to this entry are closed.
Interesting and typical, typical fascistic....from Washington, interestingly nowhere is Turkey is mention in the Euro-press. Just one more confirmation that the White House is behind it. Now DC's propaganda takes over.
They done that in ex Yugoslavia, in Ukraine, in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afganistan and so on you name it. What's next? Death Squad in Greece to incite civil war.
"Fascism is an open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, the most chauvinistic, the most imperialistic elements of the financial capital... Fascism is neither the government beyond classes nor the government of the petty bourgeois or the lumpen-proletariat over the financial capital. Fascism is the government of the financial capital itself. It is an organized massacre of the working class and the revolutionary slice of peasantry and intelligentsia. Fascism in its foreign policy is the most brutal kind of chauvinism, which cultivates zoological hatred against other peoples."
Posted by: neretva'43` | Jul 14 2015 10:22 utc | 1