Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 16, 2015

Was The Killing Of The IS Oil Minister A Combined Syrian-U.S. Operation?

Compare these two success announcements about the killing of an alleged Islamic State oil functionary:

Reuters Sat May 16, 2015 7:30am EDT:

Syrian army kills Islamic State's "oil minister"-state TV
May 16 The Syrian army has killed an Islamic State leader responsible for oil-related affairs along with 40 other militants in an attack in the eastern province of Deir al-Zor, Syrian state media reported.

A news flash on state TV identified Islamic State's "oil minister" as Abu al-Taym al-Saudi. It said he had been killed in a special operation in the Omar oil field, Syria's largest, which Islamic State captured from rival insurgents last July.

U.S. National Security Council press release Sat May 16, 2015 8:19am EDT

Last night, at the President’s direction, U.S. personnel based out of Iraq conducted an operation in al-Amr in eastern Syria to capture an ISIL senior leader known as Abu Sayyaf and his wife Umm Sayyaf. During the course of the operation, Abu Sayyaf was killed when he engaged U.S. forces.
...
Abu Sayyaf was a senior ISIL leader who, among other things, had a senior role in overseeing ISIL’s illicit oil and gas operations – a key source of revenue that enables the terrorist organization to carry out their brutal tactics and oppress thousands of innocent civilians.
...
This operation was conducted with the full consent of Iraqi authorities ..

It is usual that people in the Arab language world are identified by multiple names. "Abu al-Taym al-Saudi" might well be also known as "Abu Sayyaf". The "Omar oilfield" may also be written as "al-Amr".

A later update of the Reuters/SANA version added this paragraph

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based organisation that tracks the war, said around 19 Islamic State members had been killed in an air strike on the oil field. Twelve of the dead were foreign fighters, it said.

So what was this? A combined operation of U.S. and Syrian special forces coordinated through Baghdad? An airstrike by either side? Or did one side, the Syrian government or the U.S. administration, "steal" the success from the other side for their own propaganda purpose?

We know that the story the U.S. told over the Bin Laden killing was almost completely false. We therefore have reason to doubt the truthfulness of the NSC statement. The Syrian SANA news agency may not be the most accurate source either but here it was the first to announce the raid. SOHR, while paid by the "west", has proven to be at least somewhat independent. We will need more information before we can really stitch up the story. My bet for now is on a combined Syrian-U.S. operation that neither side has interest in to publicize in full.

Posted by b on May 16, 2015 at 09:53 AM | Permalink

Comments

"Iraqi authorities" "consent" was required for a ground operation on Syrian territory? At "the President's direction"? Obama, really? I smell BS from the usual source.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 16, 2015 10:04:25 AM | 1

It's possible both are lying. If you google both names no images or anything comes up regarding this. This person seemingly doesn't exist.

Abu al-Taym al-Saudi or Abu Sayyaf

Posted by: Celeste | May 16, 2015 10:47:29 AM | 2

The person concerned is just as likely to be still alive, as in the case of Izzat al-Duri.

Posted by: Laguerre | May 16, 2015 11:08:35 AM | 3

Very likely dozens of administration lies in this

U.S. Troops Fought ‘Hand to Hand’ in Syria Raid

U.S. Special Operations Forces met resistance and had to fight “hand to hand” in Friday night’s raid that killed ISIS senior commander Abu Sayyaf, several defense officials told The Daily Beast.
...
Some ISIS fighters hid behind women in an attempt to use them as human shields, and the second defense official said the U.S. troops had to “literally shoot around” the human shields to kill the fighters.
...
The hand-to-hand combat occurred in the building where Abu Sayyaf was, the second official said. The Tunisian national, attempted to resist in some way, leading U.S. forces to kill him.
...
His wife, an Iraqi national, and an 18-year-old Yazidi slave were taken out of the compound, as well as computers, cell phones and other forms of potential intelligence sources

And Obama personally rappelled down from a chopper shot around the human shield and destroyed dozens of pirate DVDs to protect U.S. unintellectual property.

What a load of bullshit.

Posted by: b | May 16, 2015 12:15:06 PM | 4

So what was this? ... An airstrike by either side? Or did one side ...the U.S. administration, "steal" the success from the other side for their own propaganda purpose?

There, fixed it. Expunged all favourable references to the unmitigated liars.

My guesses ...
- This story is part of the recent, feeble, attempts to rehab the predictably gormless reputation of the Syrian Observatory for HR in London.
- Until ISIL attacks "Israel" or some Jews, or destroys some Jewish Historic artifacts, it's JSIL - same as Al Qaeda's activities and alliances earn it the Al CIA Duh handle.
- The Brits still want Assad out so the Syrian Observatory for HR would need the Cameron regime's approval/ direct order, to say anything pro Assad; which this remark, like his previous Syria casualty comment, wasn't. They were neither pro nor anti.

They're just trying to confuse us with Regime Change incidentals while they ponder how much strife their bluster has invited from Russia & China - neither of which is a Pissy Little Country incapable of defending itself and/or making USUK glow in the dark.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 16, 2015 12:36:28 PM | 5

I think it's more desperate wishful thinking to believe that Obama is kissing and making up with Assad to fight the IS. He won't do anything to save Assad from his fate and evidence shows he will do just the opposite and continue to assist in his overthrow.

This raid is possibly the beginning of a new ground offensive against the Technocrats who operate and guide the IS infrastructure and oil funding. As expected the air war has not dramatically degraded the IS so now Special Ops troops are in play.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | May 16, 2015 12:42:54 PM | 6

There is some information around about an Ab Sayyaf a.k.a Mohammad (al-)Shalabi. He's from Jordan though, not Tunisia. As far as I understand al-Tayn is a valley in Lebanon, not in Saudi-Arabia. It does not add up.

Posted by: jaqwith | May 16, 2015 12:49:53 PM | 7

thanks b. and thanks for the laugh in your @4 comment "And Obama personally rappelled down from a chopper shot around the human shield and destroyed dozens of pirate DVDs to protect U.S. unintellectual property."

i think i get the best kick out of the white house press release here
"This operation was conducted with the full consent of Iraqi authorities and, like our existing airstrikes against ISIL in Syria, consistent with domestic and international law." consistent with domestic and international law - SURE! lying mf's can do no wrong while they ignore international law.. there domestic law as witnessed in fergusson mo, ain't to pretty either..

the sohr had to be quoted by the neutered reuter press, as the spin is in line with the bullshit white house press release.. "our guys are amazing and it's all legal" - kinda like the "we got osama in pakistan story" that unravels eventually...

Posted by: james | May 16, 2015 12:57:01 PM | 8

@b

What a load of bullshit.

It looks like it. Hopefully you had your wellies on to wade through it. While the smoke from bombs and gunpowder settles down, and Obama gets back home to a hero welcome with "near-certainty" of no civilians killed, we can blame the "confusion" on the fog-of-war. Be ready for another flick (Zero Dark News?) coming to a theater near you.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | May 16, 2015 2:35:53 PM | 9

US special forces kill senior ISIS commander in Syria raid - DoD
http://rt.com/usa/259253-us-syria-raid-isis/

Israel only beneficiary of Syria turmoil: Mark Glenn
http://rinf.com/alt-news/newswire/israel-beneficiary-syria-turmoil-mark-glenn/

Posted by: ALAN | May 16, 2015 3:01:19 PM | 10

Just the first U.S. press release admitted the Lie in the claim that the target was to be captured. What, captured just like bin Laden.

Posted by: tom | May 16, 2015 3:06:05 PM | 11

Given that:
1) The Syria Accountability Act restricts the extent to which the US can coordinate with Syria
2) The NSC statement profusely thanks the Iraqis for their assistance in an action outside Iraq.
3) The US may have been after bigger fish than the named one killed in the raid,

How about, Syria intelligence relayed to Iraqi intelligence information about high-level ISIS operatives gathering in the region of the Omar fields. Iraqi intelligence gave that info to the Americans, who wanted to capture some of them alive, but most of the highest value targets evaded the raid.

Another senior US official, who asked not to be identified for this article, told The Daily Beast that Abu Sayyaf was one of several ISIS figures targeted in the raid but that the others had left before the strike-force arrived, suggesting although the mission had been fully successful, US commanders were hoping to ensnare bigger ISIS leaders.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | May 16, 2015 3:13:17 PM | 12

Syria Comment has a
Poll

The regime is staying but can’t retake the country. Sunni needs are unmet, leading to the IS problem and a de facto Sunni pseudo-state forming. Will Syria end up partitioned between rebels & regime?

Yes - this is a permanent solution that will come to define the new reality of what was Syria (35%, 242 Votes)

Yes - this is a temporary solution and after a number of years it will be possible to build a united Syria once again, in a post-Assad era (24%, 163 Votes)

No - another solution is possible that won't involve partition (41%, 282 Votes)

Total Voters: 687

Posted by: okie farmer | May 16, 2015 3:14:40 PM | 13

"Some ISIS fighters hid behind women in an attempt to use them as human shields"

Yawnnnn... One of the many versions the US government offered about their alleged assassination of Bin laden involved Bin hiding behind his wives, using them as human shields.
Crudest of propaganda.

Posted by: Luca K | May 16, 2015 3:58:50 PM | 14

B wrote:
"SOHR, while paid by the "west", has proven to be at least somewhat independent."

Huh?? The pompously named one man(anti-government) outfit SOHR is little more than a propaganda, psy warfare operation. One apparently connected to brit intel btw.
I love the way SOHR 'knows' the numbers of syrian army and pro government paramilitaries casualties, often to the last digit. Time and again it reports government losses as always higher than those of the islamic mercenaries.

IOW, the pattern is to grossly exagerate government losses and setbacks, while minimizing those of sohr's heroes.
Garbage in, garbage out.

Posted by: Luca K | May 16, 2015 4:11:22 PM | 15

Here it is said everything
US Commandos Raid Syria To Kill ISIS "Gas Minister" Identified By Damascus As Saudi Citizen
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-16/us-commandos-raid-syria-kill-isis-gas-minister-identified-damascus-saudi-citizen
...

Posted by: ALAN | May 16, 2015 4:36:52 PM | 16

4

Rooters (NY) -
"US troops on the ground in the Middle East (again),
get Iraqi (sic) 'permission' to invade Syria, to
kidnap/rendition a Saudi national IL oil minister
who hid behind his multiple wives, so ... sorry!"

Why does everything that comes out of the Pentagon
vox dracula sound like #JohnMcCainArmed&FundedISIS?
Or maybe a jacked-up crystal-meth version of CoD4?

and, at

B'naiBart.com (Hebron) - by John Hayward (aka 'CounterJihad')
"The White House said today U.S. forces with American
special operators “infiltrated (sic) into Iraq over the
past couple of weeks as they prepared for the mission
(to) free(d) a young Yezidi woman, who officials believe
was held as a slave by the couple, and said it intends
to reunite her with her family ‘as soon as feasible.'
Meehan went on to say that the operation was conducted
“with the full consent of Iraqi authorities,” and in
accordance with both American and international law.”

That last part should read, "...with both American and
Israeli 'Right of Hot (sic) Pursuit' law (sic)", since
there is no 'international law' that gives America the
'right' to ask Country A if it's OK to invade Country B
to kidnap/rendition a senior official of Country C, who
has apparently defected to Country D, (not yet a country).

I'm fairly sure 'international law' is meaningless now.
"We won, you lost. It's just business, get over it.
NOW GET OFF OUR (OCCUPIED) LAND!" - the Peacock Angel

Death is the only 'rule of law' left in the world today,
where the New Pentagonal Church of Satan is the Largest .
Corporation . on . Earth, whose sole function is to bring
Death (and fat stacks for his Corporate death merchants.)

We are all Êzidî now. Just wait until the oil runs out.

Posted by: NoReply | May 16, 2015 6:06:16 PM | 17

@13 I don't think there will be a official partition for maps on puzzles, but limits of growth, failures of existing institutions/nation states, and the lack of a collectivist counter system is going to lead to areas of extreme lawlessness and warlords within the map. Much like how parts of LA are just gang areas, Somalia, or Kashmir. Even cities outside the world focus could fall into this mess.

Outside powers will tolerate a Sunni pseudo state built without the backing of a dominant power with so many international thugs and hostile to outside groups. The attacks on Christians are a problem, but it's only a matter of time before ISIS recruits blow up a bus of tourists. At that point, Israel can't afford to ignore that evangelical tourism is its lifeblood in Washington. Turkey won't want the Kurds to get ideas.

The Saudis may not recognize it now, but they won't want any kind of open Sunni state. At some point, the recruits will be the leaders not the Saudi puppets, and if they are still around with a young and disaffected Muslim population to draw on its only a matter of time before they decide Mecca doesn't need a king or royal family with so many religious Sunnis waiting to be liberated. Given the nature of Islam, it's only a matter of time before this happens if a large enough base is tolerated.

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | May 16, 2015 7:57:13 PM | 18

I have to agree w/ b. What a tremendous load of bullshit.

I am always suspect of stories which have at once too much detail:

"...had to literally shoot around..."

and not enough:

"...attempted to resist in some way..."

That they add in he has a sex slave for a wife is a nice touch. It's like when a comedian ends his/her set with a reference to a joke made earlier - always a crowd pleaser.

Posted by: guest77 | May 16, 2015 9:12:05 PM | 19

U.S. troops kill top ISIL commander in raid inside Syria


Asked about the timing of the U.S. and Syrian announcements, NSC spokeswoman Bernadette Meehan said the U.S. government did not coordinate with the Syrian government or advise it in advance of the operation, the AP reported.

"We have warned the Assad regime not to interfere with our ongoing efforts against ISIL inside of Syria," she said. "As we have said before, the Assad regime is not and cannot be a partner in the fight against ISIL. In fact, the brutal actions of the regime have aided and abetted the rise of ISIL and other extremists in Syria."


We have warned Syria not to interfere with our arbitrary operations inside Syria. And it's the Syrian's "brutal actions" ... not Barack Obama's ... that have aided an abetted the rise of ISIS ... Will somebody please put Bernadette Meehan in jail? Will somebody please put Barack Obama in jail?

'Somebody' ... that'd be me. I'm a US Citizen. He's my baby ... my scofflaw, murderer, terrorist ...

Another report - which I don't find now - had some 'spokesperson' remarking that they had had several bigger fish than the one they've claimed to have killed as marks in this operation ... but the real victims ran out the backdoor and disappeared before the US troopies showed up. And so all they got was this one ... whom the Syrians actually killed in another operation?

So they decided to salvage this failed mission ... use it as a warning to the Syrians that they 'own' Syrian ... and don't gotta show no Syrians no stinkin' badges when they decide to go killin' in Syria.

Obama does need to be put in jail ... left in the White House the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate will kill, and kill, and kill again. Guaranteed. That makes all of us Americans, us zc's, accessories to his crimes.

Posted by: jfl | May 16, 2015 10:26:19 PM | 20

cannonfire has a good article on this here.

The hidden truth about Abu Sayyaf

Posted by: james | May 16, 2015 10:29:55 PM | 21

"A US official identified him as a Tunisian."

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=402077

They have two different names...
Maybe these are two different men, one Tunisian killed by the US and another one Saudi killed by the Syrian army.

Posted by: Virgile | May 16, 2015 10:55:28 PM | 22

@21

Certainly the situation with Jordan and all the states in the region vs ISIS is 'problematic'. But the cannonfire cannot connect the guy the Americans trained say they killed and the IS 'oil ministry'. And the guy the Syrians say they killed, who they say was in charge of the IS 'oil ministry', had a different name. And was a Saudi?

So, maybe the Americans killed their usual bunch of random Arabs in this raid, but then told the Jordanians they took care of their man for them, and told the rest of the world they killed the IS 'oil minister' ?

Who knows. It's all bullshit all right. You cannot believe a single word that comes out of any USG mouthpiece.

Posted by: jfl | May 16, 2015 10:58:48 PM | 23

http://www.vocativ.com/news/193719/u-s-declares-abu-sayyaf-killing-significant-blow-to-isis/

This action has resulted in an ISIL threat on the life of the US president.

Posted by: guest77 | May 16, 2015 11:37:44 PM | 24

"Brilliant" ISIL captures the important Iraqi city of Ramadi ... then pulls out the next day.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/isil-pulls-key-areas-iraq-ramadi-150516164239848.html


----------

OT, but Ukraine economy fell 17.5% in the first quarter. Poor Ukrainian people suffering so that Yats the rat and Porko Piggo can get wealthy. And they call this "a recession"?

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/ukraine-recession-deepens-as-gdp-falls-176-20150515-00327

Posted by: guest77 | May 16, 2015 11:42:20 PM | 25

OT again, but:

Calling all vampires, cannibals, and other capitalists! the great feast on the corpse of the Ukraine begins.

Posted by: guest77 | May 16, 2015 11:47:53 PM | 26

Very important speech by Shaykh Hassan Nasrallah, addressing three main points, Nakba, the battle of Qalamoun, and the political vacuum in Lebanon.

On Nakba, he made a very keen analogy between the British/Zionist Nakba of 1948, and the ongoing US/Zionist Nakba being perpetrated by US/ISraIL in Syria & Iraq, which he said is worse. He warned all Arab and Muslim countries, including those who support ISraIL, they will suffer the modern Nakba if they don't confront the taqfiris.

On the battle of Qalamoun, he declared it open and ongoing, stated Hezbollah/SAA have extended their control over the surrounding mountains facing the Bekaa valley, and over most of the Qalamoun; even if the control is not absolute, Lebanese towns have achieved a higher level of security.

On Lebanon political crisis, he called all political factions to look into Gen. Michel Aoun proposals for a way out of the crisis. He addressed other issues briefly, i.e. Bahrain, Yemen.

Link to vid below.

Nasrallah Address, 16.5.2015 - full length

(47:58)

Posted by: Lone Wolf | May 16, 2015 11:50:32 PM | 27

25, 26

Lest we forget in our Nano New Cycle, where all things are 'New' and all history is rewritten, then forgotten, that the very first move of the Junta Coup in Kiev was to loot $38 BILLION in Ukrainian State gold bullion and transfer it to The Chosen of NYC TBTF, which then engendered The Chosen's IMF to offer $38 BILLION in 'loans' to underwrite Junta Coup Junk Bonds for Privatization of All State Resources, (for which every financial analyst in the world said would never be repaid), and why Kerry flew to Kiev to grift the Junta Coup Leaders with $5 BILLION in cash, (in exactly the same way Clinton flew to Kabul to grift Karzai with $5 BILLION in cash looted from Humanitarian Aid to Afghans), then Kerry pledged $38 BILLION in US taxpayers' last life savings to backstop the IMF loans, (a financial term called 'bicycling funds')!

In other words, The Chosen 'bicycled' $38 BILLION from the Ukrainian People into NYC bank vaults, then ZIRP'd it up with guaranteed repayment by 'bicycling' $38 BILLION from the American People US Treasury, effectively depositing ONE-HALF $TRILLION DOLLARS IN LOOTED FRACTIONAL RESERVE CREDITS INTO PRIVATE TBTF COFFERS, AND IT'S ALL TAX FREE. Then the now-RINO Congress just dutifully voted to deposit $38 BILLION into a 'Special War Fund™' without any oversight or audit.

FIRST THEY COVERED THIS $100 OF BILLIONS CRIME OF THE CENTURY NEWS SPLASH THAT NEVER HAPPENED BY HARPING ON THE CLINTON FOUNDATION $100 OF MILLIONS. AND THEY DID ALL THIS RIGHT IN PLAIN VIEW, WITHOUT TORCHES, PITCHFORKS OR GUILLOTINES~!

Now comes a deliberate destruction of the Ukraine economy to launch a fire sale, perhaps the first, but certainly not the last, Vampire Squid total assimilation of an entire country and all of its peoples within a matter of just a few years.

"We won, you lost. It's just business, get over it. NOW GET OFF OUR LAND!"

"And noone seems to notice, and noone seems to care." George, "The Man" Carlin

Posted by: NoReply | May 17, 2015 12:44:51 AM | 28

Bottom line


Syria has been grappling with a deadly crisis since March 2011. The violence fueled by Takfiri groups has so far claimed the lives of over 222,000 people, according to reports.

Over 3.8 million Syrians have left their country since the beginning of the crisis. More than 7.2 million Syrians have also become internally displaced, according to the United Nations.


... if it weren't for the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, Barack Obama, we might give peace a chance.

Posted by: jfl | May 17, 2015 1:39:20 AM | 29

Two French nationals along with Syrian Kurds were arrested in a bizarre attempt on the life if Bashar al Assad, President of Syria. The French government has already contacted Damascus through direct channels asking for the return of those arrested. The French indicate they are willing to enter into negotiations for the return of the captive accused assassins.

The alleged conspirators are said to have been working with a Kurdish terror cell that had penetrated the household staff of Assad. The Kurds had planted explosives inside detergent containers at the presidential palace south of Damascus. The attack was not successful.

Syrian officials speaking anonymously say that the Damascus government believes the would be assassins are part of a Kurdish faction trained inside Jordan. The explosives used were from the Royal Jordanian Army.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/05/16/french-arrested-in-assad-assassination-attempt/

Posted by: ALAN | May 17, 2015 2:06:28 AM | 30

Parsing the article properly always makes things clearer.

A news flash on state TV identified Islamic State's "oil minister" as Abu al-Taym al-Saudi. It said he had been killed in a special operation in the Omar oil field, Syria's largest, which Islamic State captured from rival insurgents last July.

Syrian state television make no claim as to who carried out the operation. That they have such a statement to make so early indicates that someone in the Syrian government knew exactly what was happening and most probably supplied the intelligence to the Iraqis as suggested in other comments above.
The first paragraph is an unwarranted assumption made by a Reuters reporter.
The Syrian army has killed an Islamic State leader responsible for oil-related affairs along with 40 other militants in an attack in the eastern province of Deir al-Zor, Syrian state media reported.

BTW, this is just a distraction from what has happened in Ramadi, that raises serious questions about how the west trained and equipped the Iraqi army. Before the suicide bombers hit, reports suggest that ISIS used armoured bulldozers to temove barricades. Now I doubt armoured bulldozers are fitted with composite armour, so simple ATGMs should have been able to deal with them easily(even RPG7s should do it), so did the Americans and the British decide to train the Iraqi army as they would a militia, able to deal with civil unrest but unable to conduct full blown military operations for fear that those skills might be used against other US/UK allies in the region?

Posted by: blowback | May 17, 2015 6:38:40 AM | 31

"SOHR, while paid by the "west", has proven to be at least somewhat independent."

SOHR hasn't proven itself to be independent, not even somewhat.
SOHR wears many hats- but an independence hat is not in their attire

Posted by: Penny | May 17, 2015 8:08:50 AM | 32

"This operation was conducted with the full consent of Iraqi authorities ..

Which Iraqi "authorities"?

Posted by: Penny | May 17, 2015 8:10:12 AM | 33

Who killed Abu Sayyaf?
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150516/1022220754.html

Posted by: ALAN | May 17, 2015 8:54:22 AM | 34

Why do they even mention this stuff,as a hundred others replace our whackamolian efforts.There's more jihadists than ever.Yankee Come home.

Posted by: dahoit | May 17, 2015 9:21:55 AM | 35

From the link from james @ 21:

"The neocons gave us "Abu Sayyaf" and now the neocons taketh away. Blessed be the name of the neocons."

Yep!

guest77 @ 19:"
"I have to agree w/ b. What a tremendous load of bullshit."

Again, Yep!

Posted by: ben | May 17, 2015 10:10:32 AM | 36

Le Monde has nothing of these (it just woke up to the Hersh story), but focuses since two days of daesh advancing on Palmyra and saying they are there already. For once, they emphasis the role of the Syrian army in protecting Palmyra and fighting the djihadists. So-called experts have been roaming radio stations to explain that daesh is a functional state in Mosul "according to their private sources" and here to stay.
Maybe Le Monde staff should pack and stay embedded with daesh for good.

Posted by: Mina | May 17, 2015 11:32:20 AM | 37

For some strange reason unknown to me like in a Rambo movie seen all combatant enemies of American Forces hide behind women and children when encounter the our heroic, brave men.
On a second thought I think since Sy Hearsh is now done with OBL killing investigation.
CIA and White House thought he can use a new investigative dig so they creating a new BS ( or as was said before creating their own reality on the ground )to keep him busy.

Posted by: Kooshy | May 17, 2015 11:42:10 AM | 38

@blowback@31

BTW, this is just a distraction from what has happened in Ramadi,(...)

What REALLY happened in Ramadi? Information is sketchy, Iraqi government sources are not to be trusted, and Western MSM is inflating the takeover of any checkpoint, as irrelevant as it is for the definition of the war. We all know there were some huge car bombs, ISraIL took over Ramadi's government building, planted their pirate flag, Iraqi air force bombed them out, and that's that. What REALLY happened, anyone guess is as good as mine.

(...)that raises serious questions about how the west trained and equipped the Iraqi army.

Agreed.

Before the suicide bombers hit, reports suggest that ISIS used armoured bulldozers to temove barricades. Now I doubt armoured bulldozers are fitted with composite armour, so simple ATGMs should have been able to deal with them easily(even RPG7s should do it),

The "armored" thingy is yet to be seen, as any rag-tag army these days builds "armored" cars a-la Mad Max 2 (see Ukraine.) AFAIK, ISraIL took some armored cars and tanks from the Iraqi army in Mosul, haven't seen any reports about their use in combat, but you're correct, any of those monsters are good for rifle bullets, can't stop an RPG or any anti-tank weapon.

(...) so did the Americans and the British decide to train the Iraqi army as they would a militia, able to deal with civil unrest but unable to conduct full blown military operations for fear that those skills might be used against other US/UK allies in the region?

That's a 64k dollars question. The performance of the Iraqi army forces has been abysmally poor in the field of battle, the Iraqi air force saving the day from their complete destruction. It's been routed quite a few times, and if not for the Shiite militias and the Iranian input, ISraIL would have taken Iraq by now. Back to your serious questions about the quality of training and equipment provided to the Iraqi army. I think you hit the nail on the head with your assumption the Iraqi army was trained more as a police force for internal repression than an army to face external enemies. After all, one of the first actions taken by the US was the destruction of the Iraqi army, why create a new one, as powerful as in Saddam times? The new Iraqi army was trained by the same enemies that destroyed Iraq, the main supporters of the Zionist entity, KSA, Jordan, the Gulf Counterrevolutionary Council, and you're correct in your final assumption, the US/UK want to protect their allies, no reason to empower Iraq with a modern, combative army.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | May 17, 2015 12:04:12 PM | 39

@blowback@31

BTW, this is just a distraction from what has happened in Ramadi,(...)

What REALLY happened in Ramadi? Information is sketchy, Iraqi government sources are not to be trusted, and Western MSM is inflating the takeover of any checkpoint, as irrelevant as it is for the definition of the war. We all know there were some huge car bombs, ISraIL took over Ramadi's government building, planted their pirate flag, Iraqi air force bombed them out, and that's that. What REALLY happened, anyone guess is as good as mine.

(...)that raises serious questions about how the west trained and equipped the Iraqi army.

Agreed.

Before the suicide bombers hit, reports suggest that ISIS used armoured bulldozers to temove barricades. Now I doubt armoured bulldozers are fitted with composite armour, so simple ATGMs should have been able to deal with them easily(even RPG7s should do it),

The "armored" thingy is yet to be seen, as any rag-tag army these days builds "armored" cars a-la Mad Max 2 (see Ukraine.) AFAIK, ISraIL took some armored cars and tanks from the Iraqi army in Mosul, haven't seen any reports about their use in combat, but you're correct, any of those monsters are good for rifle bullets, can't stop an RPG or any anti-tank weapon.

(...) so did the Americans and the British decide to train the Iraqi army as they would a militia, able to deal with civil unrest but unable to conduct full blown military operations for fear that those skills might be used against other US/UK allies in the region?

That's a 64k dollars question. The performance of the Iraqi army forces has been abysmally poor in the field of battle, the Iraqi air force saving the day from their complete destruction. It's been routed quite a few times, and if not for the Shiite militias and the Iranian input, ISraIL would have taken Iraq by now. Back to your serious questions about the quality of training and equipment provided to the Iraqi army. I think you hit the nail on the head with your assumption the Iraqi army was trained more as a police force for internal repression than an army to face external enemies. After all, one of the first actions taken by the US was the destruction of the Iraqi army, why create a new one, as powerful as in Saddam times? The new Iraqi army was trained by the same enemies that destroyed Iraq, the main supporters of the Zionist entity, KSA, Jordan, the Gulf Counterrevolutionary Council, and you're correct in your final assumption, the US/UK want to protect their allies, no reason to empower Iraq with a modern, combative army.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | May 17, 2015 12:06:24 PM | 40

BB@31

Good parsing of the SANA report and what was actually said but you are jumping to conclusions based on assumptions about where SANA's information came from. They could just as likely have received a call from someone who witnessed and reported the attack. It could have even been reported to the military and then passed on to SANA without any pre-knowledge of the incursion.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | May 17, 2015 12:07:12 PM | 41

Will Volkswagen offer a new SUV model called "Takfiri"?

Posted by: fast freddy | May 17, 2015 12:11:44 PM | 42

dahoit 32

Why do they even mention this stuff,as a hundred others replace our whackamolian efforts.There's more jihadists than ever.Yankee Come home.

It's a feature, not a bug. Yinon Plan, Baby.

Posted by: fast freddy | May 17, 2015 12:15:34 PM | 43

@fast freddy@38

Will Volkswagen offer a new SUV model called "Takfiri"?

Yeah, fully equipped for desert lands, with plenty of space for an entire platoon, and with optional machine-gun mounting atop. How about naming it "Takfiri Wayoutwest"? A fitting name. :-)

Posted by: Lone Wolf | May 17, 2015 12:39:31 PM | 44

@fast freddy@38

Will Volkswagen offer a new SUV model called "Takfiri"?

Yeah, fully equipped for desert lands, with plenty of space for an entire platoon, and with optional machine-gun mounting atop. How about naming it "Takfiri Wayoutwest"? A fitting name. :-)

Posted by: Lone Wolf | May 17, 2015 12:43:28 PM | 45

Always a bad idea
Rand Paul asks: What happens when we topple secular dictators?

Paul Singer, USA TODAY 10:13 a.m. EDT May 17, 2015

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul said Sunday the renewed debate over the Iraq War should raise a more forward-looking question: "Is it a good idea to topple secular dictators? And what happens when we do?"

~~~

In an interview aired on NBC's Meet the Press Sunday, Paul said he does not believe the world would be a better place if Saddam Hussein were still in charge in Iraq. But he noted, "when Hussein was toppled, we got chaos. We still have chaos in Iraq. I think it emboldened Iran. I think — we now have the rise of radical Islam in Iraq as well."

"So you have this radical brand of jihad, this radical brand of Islam, that is now strong and growing stronger because of sort of the failed state that Iraq is," Paul added. "You have the same thing going on in Libya. So this is a valid debate and we're gonna have to have this debate, not only in the Republican primary but in the general, as to whether or not it's a good idea to topple secular dictators. Is intervention always a good idea? Or sometimes does it lead to unintended consequences?"
~~~

Posted by: okie farmer | May 17, 2015 1:34:01 PM | 46

@41

Rand Paul has backed away from his appealing ant-interventionist/isolationist rhetoric. Now he's clawing back some of it. Reminds me of Campaign Mode Obama vs. President Drone King Obama.

Posted by: fast freddy | May 17, 2015 1:50:32 PM | 47

OT
Macedonian media: Turkish Stream will be a reality


Sun, May 17, 2015

By Andrew KORYBKO (USA)

Macedonian media: Turkish Stream will be a reality

With the help of the local revolutionaries and ethnic terrorists, the West is trying to destabilize Macedonia in order to overthrow the democratically elected government and to withdraw the country from the Balkan (Turkish) Stream. There is a clear and present danger that the US agents would try to initiate street violence during today’s manifestations in Skopje under false flag, as it was the case with snipers in Kiev. In the interview with the major Macedonian news agency Netpress Andrew Korybko argues that besides economic and political, there are ideological reasons for the aggression of the West against Macedonia, aimed to destroy conservative traditional values in the local society using SDSM [opposition Social-democratic Union of Macedonia) and a number of NGOs on the Soros payroll as a tool of destabilization.

The latest announcement of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs after the terrorist attack in Macedonia is saying that the opposition and the NGOs in the country, inspired by the West, are trying to make a so-called color revolution. So now it is more than clear that all this that has been happening these last months, the failed coup, the publishing of the illegally wiretapped phone records, the protests, and the terrorist attack is a strategy created and supported by the opposition, the Soros NGO`s, and some western powers in order for Macedonia to withdraw from Turkish Stream Russian pipeline. What are the details from the dark scenario that they had in mind?

The main strategy is to overthrow the government using a Color Revolution, but if that doesn’t work, then they plan on introducing an Unconventional War modeled off of the Syrian template. We already see the beginning of the second strategy with the terrorist attack in Kumanovo, which they staged in order to try to instigate the Albanians to break away from the democratically elected and legitimate government. They hope to stain the Albanians’ reputation by affiliating them with this terrorism in order to incite ethnic and religious tensions on both sides. If the combination of Color Revolution and Unconventional War doesn’t succeed in overthrowing the government, then they hope that the resultant chaos can create a pretext for a formal military intervention by NATO.
http://orientalreview.org/2015/05/17/macedonian-media-turkish-stream-will-be-a-reality/

Posted by: okie farmer | May 17, 2015 2:11:45 PM | 48

Debka has another interesting version of the events.

The US Delta Special Operations raid that killed ISIS oil chief Abu Sayyaf Saturday, May 16, could not have taken place without prior US coordination with Damascus and Moscow, debkafile’s military sources report. […]

Our military sources note that the area of operation - Al-Amar some 20 km southeast of Deir El-Zour in eastern Syria - is bristling with Syrian air defense units, while Russian air defense facilities cover the distance from there to Damascus. […]

The daring Delta raid can said to have failed in one important respect: None of the five high-value ISIS leaders was caught alive - or any of their 27 bodyguards. […]

The commanders of the operation can congratulate themselves on two feats: The entire raider force returned unscathed – was one; and, two, it captured a large cache of digital and other documentation which should offer up precious data on ISIS’s finances and its command hierarchy.

With the technology available today, Abu Sayyaf, aka Abu Muhammad al-Iraqi or Abd al-Ghani, could have been liquidated by pushing a button from a US drone base in Jordan, Iraq or an aircraft carrier on the Mediterranean, and saved risking US troops by dropping them deep inside an ISIS military compound. One or more drones armed with laser-guided bombs could have hovered overhead.

On the other hand, only a large group of elite combatants (estimated at 70-100), dropped on target by V-22 and Black Hawk copters, could have penetrated the offices and homes of the Islamic State’s financial chief and stripped his computers and other digital storage units of documents recording the movements of personnel and money.

To carry out its mission, the Delta force must have had back-up from hundreds of fighting men in the first and second circles of response, as well as medical, logistics, electronic warfare, intelligence and communications personnel and also air cover. UAVs overhead would have fed the unit intelligence in real time.

The only way the elite US unit could have operated without fear of being cut down by massive ground-to-ground missile fire from Syrian forces close to the scene was if prior directives were handed down to the Syrian and Russian air defense units to hold their fire. […]

It is more than likely that this arrangement was secretly set up when US Secretary of State John Kerry visited Russian President Vladimir Putin in Sochi on May 12. It may be assumed that the Russian leader quietly approved the operation and acceded to Kerry’s request to give Damascus a heads-up.

The nationality game continues:

It now appears that Abu Sayyaf was not the only target, but that 32 ISIS fighters were killed in the same compound including four more of its leaders – all them Moroccans. American sources identified one of them as the group’s military chief, Abo Omar al-Shishani. ["The Chechen", from Georgia]

Posted by: jaqwith | May 17, 2015 2:35:40 PM | 49

Wayoutwest @ 41

If the Syrian government had not known about it upfront, it could not have come out with a report so quickly. It would have had to carry out an investigation which would be difficult given that it took place in ISIS-controlled territory. A few years ago, the US military launched a raid into Syria to take out a high-value target without Syrian government approval and the Syrian report came out a lot later than the US one of that event.

Posted by: blowback | May 17, 2015 6:40:53 PM | 50

@50

Many things are possible, BB but still not probable and the US working with the SAA is very improbable. The Debka story above is now reporting that Abu Omar, a real big fish, was reported killed, for the forth time, in this raid. It's hard to know what to think of all the claims and supposed connections generated by this incident.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | May 17, 2015 9:03:13 PM | 51

On the lines of your note about Arabic names, I like the line, widely reported, about "Abu Sayyaf and his wife, Umm Sayyaf." Papa Sayyaf, and his wife Mama Sayyaf. Well, that certainly zeroes in on who we're talking about!

Groucho: Who's buried in the Sayyaf's Tomb?
Lucky contestant: Sayyaf. And Umm Sayyaf.

Posted by: ryanch | May 18, 2015 2:59:41 PM | 52

FAIR points out ...

White House Reveals ‘Boots on Ground’ in Syria, but Media Too Giddy Over Special Ops Porn to Notice


... [O]nly 40 percent of Americans read past the headline, so when everyone from CNN to New York Times to Vox announces it as a military raid to catch a “key ISIS commander,” and puts the fact that it’s the first direct military action in Syria by US troops—if they do at all—in paragraph 12, most people will never notice the expansion in US military objectives.

Frame it however you like, but the US just announced it has active combat troops on the ground in Syria. Even if one thinks this is A-OK, shouldn’t media outlets make that the primary topic of at least one article?


... that this was actually the first boots-on-the-ground operation by the US. And they got it past the media as just more ramboesque action. So now Obama has minted himself a 'license' to put boots-on-the-ground in Syria in future ... Didn't he once pledge that there'd be no boots-on-the-ground in Syria?

I know he's pledged everything at one time or another.

Posted by: jfl | May 20, 2015 2:11:04 AM | 53

" We know that the story the U.S. told over the Bin Laden killing was almost completely false:

how do we know that?

Posted by: dubinsky | May 22, 2015 7:55:00 PM | 54

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