Please use this thread for collecting and discussing news and opinions about the current events in Ukraine.
|
|
|
|
Back to Main
|
||
|
February 13, 2015
Ukraine Ongoing Thread
Please use this thread for collecting and discussing news and opinions about the current events in Ukraine.
Comments
Ukraine Parliamentary fist fight Thursday 02/12/15 … Posted by: Alberto | Feb 13 2015 19:15 utc | 1 The extraordinary character of the visit of Merkel and Hollande in Moscow (5 hours 6 eyes talk) and the following Minsk meeting with a ready to go proposal appears in the constellations of these days in their resonance with the presort (Horoscope) with the archetypes of Merkel and Putin. Posted by: mundanomaniac | Feb 13 2015 19:34 utc | 2 IMF Bailout for Ukraine Will Come with Massive Austerity Posted by: Lone Wolf | Feb 13 2015 19:57 utc | 3 Here we have it, Ukraine obviously dont plan any ceasefire Posted by: Anonymous_test | Feb 13 2015 20:10 utc | 4 Young ukrainan looking like…I dont know is ready to kill! Posted by: Anonymous_test | Feb 13 2015 20:24 utc | 5 The Saker ended his post about the new Minsk accord with this:
As far as I can understand, according to Christianity, God does not care what you do in your daily affairs (das ist mir egal (since God is a Lutheran, he speaks in German of course)), unless you do something extraordinary, such as kill someone. Thus, the Saker sounds more to me like a Muslim than a Christian, or a Russian Orthodox believer in particular for that matter. From TRNN: Posted by: ben | Feb 13 2015 20:44 utc | 9 Demian #6, what country are you from? Spain (Si dios quiere -old folks) and Brazil (Se deus quiser -mostly everyone) do use the same expression. Posted by: citizen x | Feb 13 2015 21:31 utc | 10 A number of Russian media now reports that a group of soldiers from Murmansk refused to go to fight in Ukraine. Or, more precisely, they requested that their commander gives them the order officially, on paper, and notified Russian human rights activists. Posted by: Ulster | Feb 13 2015 21:39 utc | 11 @6 Sounds like a rough translation of Russian “бог даст”, which is typically used in this suffix (or prefix) way. More precisely, this expression is present in virtually any Slavic language I’ve heard, so Russian used only because I know it best. Posted by: Ulster | Feb 13 2015 21:45 utc | 12 Another fun fact about the new Minsk Agreement: can anyone explain why Tornado-S was included on the list of equipment to be withdrawn? Posted by: Ulster | Feb 13 2015 21:57 utc | 13 Demian @6, wrt Xian provenance, will this do? Posted by: rjj | Feb 13 2015 22:15 utc | 14 @Ulster #13: @ Demian #6, Ulster #12 Posted by: DZhMM | Feb 13 2015 23:15 utc | 17 …still curious if anyone has the start time on feb 15th for when the agreement engages. 12 noon? 12 midnight.. also – does anyone know the time of day on feb 12th in minsk the agreement was signed? thanks.. Posted by: james | Feb 13 2015 23:26 utc | 18
I don’t imagine anecdote will help here, but I worked with an Orthodox Christian who used this expression regularly. Posted by: RudyM | Feb 13 2015 23:29 utc | 19 Trolls are not real. Posted by: citizen x | Feb 13 2015 23:29 utc | 20 The particular Orthodox Christian co-worker was ethnically Polish (though I don’t think he ever lived there), and fluent in Polish and Russian, with some knowledge of other East European languages. I realize Orthodox Christianity isn’t the obvious choice for Poles, but that’s the faith he adhered to. He was very anti-Communist, but not anti-Russian. Pretty immersed in East European culture broadly. I wish I could talk with him about the current situation. Posted by: RudyM | Feb 13 2015 23:37 utc | 22 And it looks like Martin Luther used the phrase as well, unless this is an awful translation: Posted by: RudyM | Feb 13 2015 23:43 utc | 23 3 Posted by: ChipNikh | Feb 13 2015 23:57 utc | 24 @18 “Бог даст” literally translates to “if God allows” or “God willing”, and according to this is a “statement expressing the hope of a successful outcome of events”. Posted by: Ulster | Feb 14 2015 0:13 utc | 25 @Demian/6 Posted by: CaptainCook | Feb 14 2015 0:14 utc | 26 Posted by: Ulster | Feb 13, 2015 7:13:20 PM | 26 Posted by: somebody | Feb 14 2015 0:23 utc | 27 Russia has declared that they will protect the Russians abroad. right now the Ukr army is killing the Donbass civilians on the daily basis trying to provoke Russia to invade. People in Russia understand the complexity of the situation but the never ending massacre of Russians in East Ukraine is making people quite upset. If Putin cannot stop this he is risking his presidency. He has to do something and stop the Ukr army from killing the people of Donbass whatever it takes. We know that the EU and the OSCE don’t give a shit and we know Poroshenko doesn’t want peace so I hope Putin will give enough support to the rebels to drive the Ukr nazis out of the Donetsk&Luganstk regions completely. There has to be a dramatic military victory for the Ukr masters to realize Russia means business. They can keep negotiating in Minsk all they want but the nazis should get out of there first and they won’t do it voluntarily, so… Posted by: Al | Feb 14 2015 0:31 utc | 28 GOD WILLING Posted by: rjj | Feb 14 2015 0:33 utc | 29 @6 Posted by: Crone | Feb 14 2015 0:34 utc | 30 @26 Posted by: DZhMM | Feb 14 2015 0:37 utc | 31 @RudyM #24: @citizen x, 10: Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 14 2015 0:53 utc | 33 Back to Ukraine news: Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 14 2015 0:56 utc | 34 God isn’t real, Demian. Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 14 2015 1:11 utc | 35 @Vintage, thanks for the feedback, one word forward, “host” 🙂 Posted by: citizen x | Feb 14 2015 1:34 utc | 36 Sorry to break in on the theological discussion among non-believers … except maybe hoarse? Excellent troll topic!
The Minsk Peace Deal: Farce Or Sellout?
And whose store did they give away … for a deal that still failed? The people who had to sign the deal which they had zero input on. Posted by: jfl | Feb 14 2015 1:50 utc | 37 The proper expression is Deus Vult. Posted by: ǝn⇂ɔ | Feb 14 2015 1:59 utc | 38 >Russia takes Ukraine accords to the Security Council Posted by: somebody | Feb 14 2015 2:21 utc | 39 Posted by: somebody | Feb 13, 2015 9:21:39 PM | 40 Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 14 2015 2:38 utc | 40 @jfl #38: Good lord…this entire thread has been nothing but one persons obsession over the phrase “God willing”, plus the usual inanity by Ulster. And please don’t fixate on my “Good Lord”. Sheeesh people, aren’t there more important things in the world than where a particular phrase came from? If not, here’s one for you to gab about…”That old dog won’t hunt”. It’s appropriate and on point…for this thread anyway. Posted by: Scott | Feb 14 2015 3:23 utc | 42 @Scott #43:
I have a strong feeling that Atlanticism is on the skids. Europe: Goodbye American woman. “Deus vult” has nothing whatsoever to do with the expression “God willing”. “Deus vult” means “God wills it.” It is not a common expression. Posted by: Harold | Feb 14 2015 4:16 utc | 44 Right Sector militants surrounded the Krasnoarmeisk Ukrainian command headquaters, threatening to storm it Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 14 2015 4:38 utc | 45 Is this the right room for a disputation?
Can I get an “Amen” from the deacons! And as the stewards pass the collection plates, brothers and sisters, let’s all turn to Just a closer walk with thee in your hymnals and sing along with Patsy Cline, Willie Nelson, and the Jordanaires. Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 14 2015 4:40 utc | 46 Russian Spring Posted by: Fete | Feb 14 2015 4:42 utc | 47 @Harold #45: @demian:If anyone can demonstrate that the expression “God willing” has any Christian provenance, I would be most grateful. And now back to our regularly scheduled programing.
Does not sound promising for Poroshenko. A few more tremors as well. Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 14 2015 5:20 utc | 50 @rufus magister #48: Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 14, 2015 12:20:21 AM | 52 Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 14 2015 6:14 utc | 52 @The Saker #51: Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 13, 2015 9:38:00 PM | 41 Posted by: somebody | Feb 14 2015 6:53 utc | 54 in re 53 — Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 14 2015 7:36 utc | 55 HoarseWhisper at 54 — Seriously, funniest post I’ve seen here in days. So right, too. Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 14 2015 7:38 utc | 56 @31 crone.. i enjoyed your post. thanks. Posted by: james | Feb 14 2015 7:44 utc | 57 more versions on the Maidan massacre Posted by: somebody | Feb 14 2015 7:57 utc | 58 Something happened. Main stream media are losing sympathy with Kyiv – New York Times:
Now waiting for the other shoe to drop. Posted by: somebody | Feb 14 2015 8:09 utc | 59 Demian also thanks for bringing up this theological issue. I have found the interchange quite interesting. Also it is very relevant to this Ukrainian civil war. The role of US imperialism or hegemony is obviously a primary source for this war. What I find hard to understand is the motives of those people in Ukraine who are fighting and dying to protect their heritage. In eastern Ukraine, there seems to be a Russian nationalism that is rooted in the orthodox christian church. Personally I would have fled after the first artillery barrage visited by the Ukie fascists. There are many opportunities for these refugees in the west. For some reason they are standing and resisting. And it seems that religion is part of it. Posted by: ToivoS | Feb 14 2015 9:11 utc | 60 @ToivoS #61: #51 so even Saker gets bored with the Amen corner over at his place Posted by: Cu Chulainn | Feb 14 2015 10:39 utc | 62 “deo concedente” the humble formula medieval alchemists Posted by: mundanomaniac | Feb 14 2015 11:26 utc | 63 In French, “si dieu le veut” was just a common expression, Catholic and Protestant. Nowadays – or the last I heard it used anyway – was down South, by elderly Catholics, and only for important events or outcomes, such as recovering from an illness. Note the ‘si’ – if : “dieu le veut” means ‘god wills it’, and thus makes no sense, one cannot speak for God. Lordy me, I can’t believe I just typed this out, argh. Posted by: Noirette | Feb 14 2015 11:32 utc | 64 Posted by: Noirette | Feb 14, 2015 6:32:34 AM | 65 Posted by: somebody | Feb 14 2015 12:41 utc | 65 WTF!!! Posted by: acrimonious | Feb 14 2015 13:00 utc | 66 As far as I know, God doesn’t interfere with free will or human politics but perhaps through the concept of irony. Everywhere and everything else is subject to infinite conjecture. Unless you know with absolute certainty, which is the provence of foolishness. Posted by: Geoff | Feb 14 2015 13:20 utc | 67 WTF!!! Posted by: TLC | Feb 14 2015 13:57 utc | 68 in re 62 —
And now it’s off to the Ephrata Cloister in Amish Country. Seriously. Little road trip, see some family on the way back. Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 14 2015 14:08 utc | 69 anyone can demonstrate that the expression “God willing” has any Christian provenance, I would be most grateful.
Fails miserably, of course Posted by: TLC | Feb 14 2015 14:10 utc | 70 acri, you missed the point. It is about the propriety of the expression God willing as a pious ejaculation (I hope that’s the correct rhetorical term). Posted by: rjj | Feb 14 2015 14:17 utc | 71 the point of this formula (Deo volente) is not so much to profess pious belief in God as to recognize the contingency of all human statements about future events–Arabs today interject the same formula whenever speaking in the future tense, Greeks of the older generation still do this (prota o Theos) Posted by: Cu Chulainn | Feb 14 2015 14:33 utc | 73 Posted by: acrimonious | Feb 14, 2015 8:00:55 AM | 67 Posted by: somebody | Feb 14 2015 15:03 utc | 74 @Harold #45 Posted by: ǝn⇂ɔ | Feb 14 2015 16:31 utc | 75 Jezus, I thought I had escaped the Bible Thumpers at the Saker and joined the Moon Worshipers here but the Goddess has failed me again. Posted by: Wayoutwest | Feb 14 2015 16:47 utc | 76 Several years ago I quit reading the Race for Iran blog, because it became a “warzone” between different sects of Islam. I’m not even sure the blog is still up. Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 14 2015 17:27 utc | 77 @okie farmer #78: any interesting comments on the satellite pics that geoffrey pyatt is sharing on twitter? since it is g pyatt i think that explains it all, but was curious of others views on this.. Posted by: james | Feb 14 2015 18:23 utc | 79 Zacharchenko has an interesting thing to say about Minsk2 (reported at FORTRUSS ) I can say the following, we will stop fire across the entire territory of Donetsk People’s Republic, except for internal areas. Internal areas means Debaltsevo. Any attempt of UAF to break out of this cauldron or deblock it will be considered a violation of the Minsk agreements, and naturally these attempts will be foiled, and the enemy will be destroyed. Posted by: ToivoS | Feb 14 2015 19:12 utc | 80 #Debian Posted by: gersen | Feb 14 2015 19:27 utc | 81 James@80- the contempt and the belief in the endless gullibility of the American public is astounding. But for how much longer can the US peddle this propaganda? This was the best they could come up with after scouring Eurasian social media for the past year- Russian troops in Georgia circa 2008? Pyatt with a call of duty satellite picture? Posted by: Nana2007 | Feb 14 2015 19:46 utc | 82 The really notorious saying of the crusaders was supposed to have been uttered in 1209 by at the start of the massacre at Béziers, during the Albigensian crusade against heretics in southern France. When asked how the crusaders were to distinguish heretics from orthodox believers, the papal legate is supposed to have replied: “Kill them all, God will know his own.” Posted by: Harold | Feb 14 2015 19:50 utc | 83 #82 from your lips to god’s ear today is used sarcastically by secular Jews. I doubt Religious Jews would use the phrase. Posted by: ToivoS | Feb 14 2015 19:55 utc | 84 @gersen #83: TS@82 Posted by: Wayoutwest | Feb 14 2015 21:08 utc | 86 While I would never say that M2A has been a “betrayal” of NovoRussia by Russia, I would say it was totally predictable that: Posted by: Lysander | Feb 14 2015 21:27 utc | 87 @Wayoutwest #88:
It is good that many Europeeans understand that Poland was responsible for WW II. The AngloAmerican Empire is now scheming for another war in Europe; hopefully, Europeans will not make the same mistake twice. @Lysander #89 D@90 Posted by: Wayoutwest | Feb 14 2015 22:02 utc | 90 @84 nana.. thanks. we see that very much the same way! Posted by: james | Feb 14 2015 22:08 utc | 91 Swift is an empty threat as far as Europe is concerned as a cutoff would sink their banks heavily invested in Russia. Posted by: somebody | Feb 15 2015 0:26 utc | 92 Has the IMF Annexed Ukraine? Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 15 2015 0:51 utc | 93 Ceasefire broken (by Ukrainian soldiers in the Debaltsave cauldron, some of whom admittedly might not know there is a ceasefire): Posted by: RudyM | Feb 15 2015 0:57 utc | 94 @95 somebody.. thanks re swift. that makes sense. one can read up on them, as i have, but still not find a clear answer to this question/threat that has been suggested. Posted by: james | Feb 15 2015 1:11 utc | 95 @Wayoutwest #92 “Poland started WWII” may be overstating it, but they did contribute to it. Germany’s grievance over the Danzig corridor issue, crudely exploited as it was by Hitler, was legitimate. Poland had frustrated Weimar Germany’s efforts to resolve it under the terms of the Locarno Treaty, contributing to the demise of the Weimar political center. Posted by: Thirdeye | Feb 15 2015 1:15 utc | 96 @RudyM #97:
It’s because I didn’t say “God willing.” Posted by: RudyM | Feb 15 2015 1:26 utc | 99 |
||