Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 07, 2015

More War In Ukraine Needed So Lindsey Graham Can "Feel Better"


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There was a lot of stupid talk today at the Munich Security Conference where U.S. hawks are trying to instigate a big war in Europe. Such war would result in a lot of destruction in Europe but the U.S., secured by oceans, would hardly be touched. Especially in the current deflationary environment the destruction of European production capacity would be to the economic advantage of the United States.

The U.S. hawks (and their European puppets) want to deliver more weapons to Ukraine, they want to instigate Russia to harsher reactions to their coup in Kiev and they want to strongly escalate the situation there. That is not in Europe's interest.

The U.S. commander of NATO Breedlove's talk of the "military option" in Ukraine is dangerous nonsense. But even more nonsense came today in Munich from Senator Lindsey Graham, a member of the Senate Committee on Armed Services. He is, together with John McCain and the lunatic editorial boards of the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post, one of the loudest voices screaming for more war.

Graham has problems justifying any escalation. He admits that pushing more weapons into the Ukraine would not change much. But he says it would make him "feel better". Now that is really good reason to escalate a war? You can see and hear him saying that at 33:40 in this video:

I don’t know how this will end if you give [Ukraine] defensive capability. But I know this: I will feel better because when my nation was needed to stand up to the garbage and to stand by freedom I stood by freedom. They may die, they may lose ...

More war, more death, more destruction so Lindsey Graham "will feel better"? And that is supposed to be a good reason for war?

I doubt that Graham meant that seriously. It is simply his usual neocon sales-talk for more war and while such talk works in certain segments of the U.S. public it is unlikely to win him any following in Europe.

Fortunately some leading figures in Europe have at last recognized what the U.S. wants to do and are now strongly pushing back. The German chancellor Merkel said several times, including today, that "there is no military solution" to the problem and that the only way to go is through negotiations. She, together with the French president Hollande, is just back from long negotiations in Kiev and Moscow. The renewed Minsk agreement they talked about would freeze the war at the current front line and give the eastern parts of Ukraine autonomy.

Moscow would likely agree to that. But it seems that Kiev is the bigger problem because the Ukrainian president Poroshenko is unwilling to adopt the Minsk agreement for a ceasefire to his loosing positions on the actual battlefield. He also spoke out against autonomy for the east or a federalization of the Ukraine. He probably fears to be kicked out of office in another coup if he agrees to compromise. The Ukrainian prime minister Yatsenyuk, the puppet of the U.S. neocons, is an even stronger hawk and could be the one Victoria Nuland wants to use to replace Poroshenko.

The picture above, taken at a side meeting in Munich today, is quite symbolic. Poroshenko is sitting next to Biden and Kerry and the German government, Merkel and Steinmeier, are sitting at the opposite side of the table. It is obvious who's puppet Poroshenko is.

Hollande made clear today that the position Kiev, and the U.S. behind it, hold is the one he does not agree with:

French President Francois Hollande called for “quite strong” autonomy for Ukraine’s eastern regions while speaking on France 2 TV.
...
The French President also revealed part of the joint document under negotiation between Berlin, Moscow, Paris and Kiev. He said it will feature a 50- to 70-kilometer demilitarized zone on each side of the current line dividing militia-held and Kiev-controlled territories.

The Ukraine is bankrupt, loosing militarily and no amount of "defensive" weapons (which are of course also offensive ones) would change the power relations in the field. The U.S. attempt to push Europe into a wider war has for now failed but it is unlikely that this was the last one. The government in Kiev will have agree to the compromise Merkel and Hollande are pressing for or it will lose even more soldiers, land and money.

Posted by b on February 7, 2015 at 18:49 UTC | Permalink

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Graham is such a wonderful and enlightened representative of America. God help us.....

Posted by: georgeg | Feb 7 2015 19:10 utc | 1

Personally, I thought the only thing Lindsey needed to "feel better" was a pliable little boy. If he is overcome with bloodlust, let him enlist in a Maiden battalion. I'm sure they'd love him. Lead from the FRONT queenie.

Posted by: Scott | Feb 7 2015 19:26 utc | 2

What a salesman. They may die, they may lose ...The operative word is "stoodby". His copy must be written by Lockheed Martin.

Posted by: Nana2007 | Feb 7 2015 19:49 utc | 3

Porkyshenko like his Neonazi Fourth Reich puppet masters is completely out of touch with the reality on the battlefield. Looks like sacrificing 8,000 surrounded troops in the name of 'MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY DIPLOMACY' is not even a consideration.

__________________________________________________________________________

"Poroshenko responded by saying that Ukraine is a sovereign country and has every right to defend its borders, territory and people.

"We are not going by these weapons to kill anybody. It will just make the defense of my county more efficient," Poroshenko said.

Meanwhile in the same address the Ukrainian leader stressed that he was the president of peace, not the president of war."

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150207/1017947192.html#ixzz3R5es462j

Posted by: Alberto | Feb 7 2015 19:52 utc | 4

Does Breedlove use a wheelchair and does his arm form an involuntary Nazi salute occasionally?
That said, he is not as big a whack job as Graham.

Posted by: harry law | Feb 7 2015 19:54 utc | 5

Fortunately some leading figures in Europe have at last recognized what the U.S. wants to do and are now strongly pushing back. The German chancellor Merkel said several times, including today, that "there is no military solution" to the problem and that the only way to go is through negotiations.

Funny. Merkel and Holland are “leading figures” in Europe? Nuclear Physicists doesn't know where is Berlin on the map.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2pO6PFYnL4

Honestly, I wish I could see war (again) in Europe, but not in Ukraine or some “peripherals”, but in the Core countries. That's what they deserve - annihilation and destruction of client regimes.

The German chancellor Merkel said several times, including today, that "there is no military solution" to the problem and that the only way to go is through negotiations.

This exponents of German's capital, Ordoliberalism and Nazism/racism is clueless, she reminds me on Hans-Dietrich Genscher or rather that villain Helmut Kohl during war in the Balkans when Germany was instrumental of destruction of Yugoslavia. Yes, there is military solution, and it will be the one, but the client regimes will be on losing side.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 7 2015 19:55 utc | 6

Neither France nor Germany are going to back down their support to the fascist regime in Kiev. They just don't want be the paying side of the Western Empire war on Russia. It's bad for business to have a war just a couple hops from your own border. And while they may call for 'negotiations' (there is little to negotiate but a neutral Ukraine and a virtually independent Russian aligned Novorossiya and the Nazis back to fight brawls in Kiev and Lviv) and 'return to peace' (but for the continued artillery bombardment of Novorossiya cities they didn't care two weeks ago and don't care now with a military impossible 'demilitarized' border unless Ukrainian forces abandon completely the old Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts territories) they will just stay aside and do nothing while 'new fascist Europe' and their empire handlers from Washington and New York continue calling and supporting the third or fourth war on Russian's border since 1991. After completely giving away their soverignity in the early 2000s they don't hold any real power and don't care but to keep their local failed oligarchic tyranny called the European Banker Oligarchy Union surviving a few more weeks or months.

The US continues to feel invulnerable two oceans away from Eurasia but it's no longer the first half of the 20th Century and eventually they will be made aware that they are as vulnerable as all other nations. Let's hope that they don't become aware when it's too late for them and everyone else in the world. Russia should make clear what it means for NATO and US direct or indirect attacks against Russia to continue.

Posted by: ThePaper | Feb 7 2015 20:03 utc | 7

harry law

What is Breedlove for a name anyway? Sounds like a male pornstar.
Europeans need to kick out those crazy warmongers.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 7 2015 20:10 utc | 8

It looks like the Russian program to split the US and the EU is back on track. There was a similar moment last summer, until the MH17 false flag. If France and Europe continue defying the Empire as they are apparently now doing, the Empire wtll no doubt pull another trick out of its sleeve. Europeans must take care not to be fooled again by another false flag. War with one of the world's two nuclear superpowers is not good for any Europeans, including the 1%.

Still, it's hard to know how serious Hollande and Merkel are. If they were, you would think they would start criticizing the junta for its massive war crimes, but Hollande and Merkel are maintaining their studied silence. Pointing out that the Kiev junta is Nazi would make it difficult for USG to push for further escalation.

Posted by: Demian | Feb 7 2015 20:15 utc | 9

"Europeans must take care not to be fooled again by another false flag."

Assume that I am not knowledgeable. Europe is the continent, not nation or country thus there is no “Europeans” and there is no body that represent/express political will of the Europeans. France and Germany alone doesn't see situation exactly same not to mention Italy, Greece, etc.

Secondly, I very much doubt that the Europeans went to Moscow without consent of Washington. That's simply an impossible.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 7 2015 20:31 utc | 10

@6 haha

Anyway, I'm not a cartographer but a demilitarised zone on each side of the dividing line up to 70km deep would essentially remove the guns from Donbass, and with it the Ukrainian army; presumably ceding the area for federalisation. Will Kiev agree to this? With the Americans whispering sweet nothings into his ear, it seems Porky - the self-declared "President of Peace" may yet choose war. But if you play to win, you run the risk of losing. Rather than churning out melodramatic clichés in Munich, Poroshenko ought to think hard about this. Though, at this point, I figure he's damned either way.

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Feb 7 2015 20:46 utc | 11

@neretva'43 #8:

A split between the EU (or France and Germany, if you like) and the US is clearly reemerging. Merkel and Hollande probably told USG that they were going to Moscow ahead of time, and USG thought it couldn't stop them, so it is acting as if that trip was made with its consent.

You can see the split in a video at this blog post.

US colonial overseers arrive in Munich to attend the annual NATO ‘Security Conference’. It is obvious that they don’t like what they hear. Madeleine Albright, the butcher of Iraq at [1:01-1:14] shakes her head in disbelief when German defense secretary Ursula von der Leyen claims that ‘there are too many weapons already in eastern Ukraine’, where in contrast the Albright’s of this world opine that there never can be enough weapons to be used against those, who resist incorporation of their country, in casu Vladimir Putin’s Russia, into the New World Order of the Albright’s.
This Dutch blogger is a reactionary, but his hatred of the Anglosphere is refreshing.

Posted by: Demian | Feb 7 2015 20:48 utc | 12

Lavrov's Munich speech

It is important that everyone realizes the real extent of risks. It's time to get rid of the habit to consider each issue separately, not seeing "the forest behind the trees". It is time to assess the situation comprehensively. The world today is on a steep fault associated with changing of historical periods. "Birth pains" of the new world order are manifested through the increase of conflicts in international relations. If instead of strategic global vision, prevail the tactical decisions made by politicians with an eye on the coming elections at home, there is a danger of a loss of control over the levers of global governance.


Let me remind you that at the initial stage of the Syrian conflict, many in the West urged not to exaggerate the threat of extremism and terrorism, claiming that it will somehow dissolve on its own, and that the main thing - is to bring about regime change in Damascus. We see what happened. The vast territory in the Middle East, Africa, the Afghanistan-Pakistan area became uncontrollable by legitimate authorities. Extremism overflows to other regions, including Europe, aggravating risks of proliferation of WMDs. The situation in the Middle East settlement, in other areas of regional conflicts is gaining an explosive nature. An adequate strategy for containment of these challenges is still not developed.

I would hope that today's and tomorrow's discussions here in Munich will bring us closer to estimating the level of the efforts to find collective answers to common threats. The conversation, if you count on significant results, can only be equal, without ultimatums and threats.


Posted by: Nana2007 | Feb 7 2015 20:51 utc | 13

Interessting timing, Sarkozy is coming out again and surprise, surprise:

Crimea Cannot Be Blamed for Choosing to Join Russia - Sarkozy / Sputnik International

Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy noted on Saturday that France and Russia are part of a common European civilization, and that Crimea cannot be blamed for choosing to join Russia.


I am glad he is another voice speaking out, however, I still don't like him.

Posted by: Fran | Feb 7 2015 21:12 utc | 14

And another voice is speaking out, Sarkozy and surprise, surprise:

Speaking on Saturday before supporters at the congress of the Union for a Popular Movement Party (UMP), Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy played a conciliatory note toward Russia, noting that Crimea could not be blamed for choosing to leave Ukraine amidst the turmoil of early 2014.

"We are part of a common civilization with Russia," Sarkozy, who serves as the president of the UMP, noted. "The interests of the Americans with the Russians are not the interests of Europe and Russia," he noted. The former president added that "we do not want the revival of a Cold War between Europe and Russia."

I am glad he is speakeing out, however, I still don't like him.

And sorry no link - comments with links to Sputnik seem to be automatically deleted.

Posted by: Fran | Feb 7 2015 21:17 utc | 15

Azarov finally speaks out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v033nO-51I

Posted by: georgeg | Feb 7 2015 21:20 utc | 16

The NY Times finally admits that oil prices have fallen because Saudi Arabia deliberately made them fall:

Saudi Oil Is Seen as Lever to Pry Russian Support From Syria’s Assad

But with its typical mendacity, the Times presents KSA as acting on its own, with the target being Syria, whereas in actuality USG ordered KSA to lower oil prices drastically, with the targets being Russia, Iran and Venezuela.

NEO: Mystery Behind Dropping Oil Prices Solved – Concerted Manipulation

Instead of focusing on Saudi Arabia and claims that it is solely responsible for global oil prices being cut in half despite no discernible changes in supply and demand, the global public should see a wider confrontation playing out. The US is using its vast influence over finance, energy, the media and many other economic and political sectors to wage full spectrum war on those resisting its hegemonic expansion globally.
I recall reading that Biden visited Saudi Arabia just before oil prices started falling, but everyone seems to have forgotten about that. (It's hard to find an article about that, since Biden visited Saudi Arabia last month on account of the king's death, so only stories about the recent visit come up in searches.)

Posted by: Demian | Feb 7 2015 21:25 utc | 17

A split between the EU (or France and Germany, if you like) and the US is clearly reemerging. Merkel and Hollande probably told USG that they were going to Moscow ahead of time, and USG thought it couldn't stop them, so it is acting as if that trip was made with its consent.

If so be prepared for the colored revolution or the jets with them will crash suddenly. Germany and France are lost without "leading behind" empire, they are simply meaningless in political terms and significance, just as UK is. The White Man (Western “civilization”) must maintain its hegemony otherwise and exploitation otherwise they are doomed. And they know it. Without elaborating just read this article.

Division of Labor for Aggression
http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/58824

“Ischinger, therefore, declared that he does not want to rule out possible arms deliveries. "That could also be referred to as a division of labor" [13] - similar to the cold war - with a Federal Republic of Germany, economically expanding into Russia, while the USA makes a demonstration of armed force. Monday, Angela Merkel will confer at the White House with Barack Obama about the power struggle with Russia and, probably discuss these two sides of the coin.”

Also, Germans pays hefty bills submitted by the Empire during destruction of Libya. Whom are the Germans are going to sell MBs and BMWs if not to the Empire?

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 7 2015 21:27 utc | 18

thanks for the overview b..

what i see missing in all this is a voice of the folks in eastern ukraine.. as for poroshenko - he really looks like a puppet on the usa's string, a couple of minutes short of his expiry date where yats takes over.. does kiev or eastern ukraine actually have a say in any of this? my answer - no, apparently not.

i tend to agree with neretva quote @8 "I very much doubt that the Europeans went to Moscow without consent of Washington." everything has to go thru washington.. maybe they get their laundry and dry cleaning done there too.. next time i puke reading what they have to say, i'll try it too!

ditto pat's comments @9... make a wider zone away from donbass, but if they are into exterminating all of donetsk, i guess they can't agree to that..

nana @ 11.. the words of an actual diplomat.. how rare to read! i am used to that bumbling dolt kerry, or worse someone from my own gov't here in canada!!!

Posted by: james | Feb 7 2015 21:29 utc | 19

"We are part of a common civilization with Russia," Sarkozy

What's else liberal-fascists have in mind than the race card. On the moment notice Russia is the European country! Sarkozy wouldn't get second term without help form the Empire when they trashed Dominique Strauss-Kahn who was more popular. But Jew can not be President of France.

What piece of shit he is.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 7 2015 21:39 utc | 20

South Carolina is warmonger territory--it's economy depends on military spending:

"When you add up the retirees, 900 defense contracting firms, and eight major bases — including Joint Base Charleston, Shaw Air Force Base in Sumter, and the Marine Corps Air Station and Recruit Depot in the Beaufort-Parris Island area, says the report, 'military operations and activities represent more than 138,000 jobs in the state generating $7.2 billion in annual payroll.'"
http://www.jlconline.com/economic-conditions/south-carolina-economy--resting-on-defense.aspx

Posted by: JohnH | Feb 7 2015 21:41 utc | 21

This is just an aside, but it seems as though Joe Biden, might really be Al Capp's real life personification of Joe Btfsplk, who is followed by a black cloud that brings destruction in its wake. HA!

Posted by: Curtis | Feb 7 2015 21:44 utc | 22

Just a point of English to note: it's "losing" not "loosing."

Posted by: DL | Feb 7 2015 21:52 utc | 23

James@16- one of the most frightening aspects to all this is how our bozo statesmen are hopelessly outclassed.

Posted by: Nana2007 | Feb 7 2015 22:13 utc | 24

They will die and they will lose, but Graham and his neocon friends won't feel better until Americans are the ones dying and losing. Only then they can feel vindicated.

Posted by: Edison | Feb 7 2015 22:14 utc | 25

@21 You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait til the Facebook generation takes over.

Posted by: dh | Feb 7 2015 22:18 utc | 26

Joe Biden is in Europe at John Kerry’s side across the table from Angela Merkel who is meeting Barrack Obama on Monday. This is the week that determines if the European War expands and destroys itself again. These politicians are puppets of the Western Rulers who forced austerity on their people of Southern Europe and who ordered a regime change in the Kremlin. The British Foreign Secretary is notably missing. Clearly, Biden and Kerry didn’t want to hear again “The lamps are going out all over Europe, we shall not see them lit again in our life-time”. Nor does John Kerry want to be reminded of who will be the last person to die for this mistake. It will be all of mankind.

b. Have German Industrialists remember their family’s histories and instructed the Chancellor of Germany to end this madness?

Posted by: VietnamVet | Feb 7 2015 22:20 utc | 27

Here's an interesting bit from Banderastan, via Russia Insider. Is Yatseniuk really in the peace camp? He is apparently saying that there is No Military Solution to [the] Ukraine War.

"It is absolutely clear that Europe needs peace, which depends on peace in Ukraine," Yatsenyuk told a briefing held jointly with Slovakian Prime Minister Robert Fico.... "We understand that there is no classical military solution to the conflict. No one wants a full-scale war in Europe...."

Presumably, this is not more junta humor.

Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 7 2015 22:31 utc | 28

What has happened to all those $billions that the west sent after the coup? Playing with fire, gets fingers or worse, burned.

Posted by: Norman | Feb 7 2015 22:32 utc | 29

Even if one were to believe that Kerry, Hollande, and Merkel were well-intentioned in their efforts with regard to bringing about a peace agreement in Ukraine, the actions of Stoltenberg, Lute, and Breedlove point more to a NATO intent on seeking a military showdown with Russia. NATO should have long ago shuttered the doors in its headquarters in Brussels. It is a military bloc that only represents the interests of neo-con war hawks like the aging McCain and his «drama queen» friend Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and money-hungry war companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and General Dynamics, eager to sell their expensive war «toys» to new NATO members.

Read more at: http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/kerry-cementing-covert-deal-of-us-arms-flow-to-ukraine/

Posted by: Alberto | Feb 7 2015 22:50 utc | 30

Fran @comment 10 ...

"And sorry no link - comments with links to Sputnik seem to be automatically deleted."

Thank you for mentioning this. I posted quote with link to Sputnik and it disappeared. i THOUGHT IT WAS MY IMAGINATION ...

OBVIOUSLY BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNOENCE IS STRENGTH

Posted by: Alberto | Feb 7 2015 22:56 utc | 31

A cynic would say that Merkal and Hollande wouldn't be doing any talks if the Ukrainian Govt was winning and the death squads ethnically cleansing the Donbas (etc), they would be praising the success of the "fight against Russian agression' and 'terorism".

We are seeing standard pattern here. US/EU/NATO/etc push Ukrainine into a large attack, they lose, panic sets in, 'peace' talks are started.

A cynic would say this is just another example and if a ceasefire happens then after Ukraine builds up its men (if any are left) and weapons they will attack again.

A cynic would also say that Poland, germany, etc have been pouring weapons (from their old Soviet stock) into Kiev for ages now. For example, where have all their current aircraft come from? We know with fair precsion that Ukraine lost it's entire airforce last year, so where have the new ones (and pilots) come from? Poland, with Polish pilots?

Watch the wording "Germany doesn't support weapons shipments", doesn't mean they don't do it though.....

The problem is now that no matter what weapons are given to Kiev they don't have the men avalable to use them. Hence we will see more 'foreigners' moving in, 'mercenaries', 'trainers', etc. When they get thumped then what will they do? Move direct NATO troops in, those 'rapid response' forces building up now?

The current path is endless escalation, there is zero sign of that stopping now. Merkal and Hollande's 'peace show' is just part of that, buy a bit of time for Kiev to build up its forces again for another attack.

Posted by: Lisa | Feb 7 2015 23:05 utc | 32

@16

' what i see missing in all this is a voice of the folks in eastern ukraine.. '

Absolutely. And the voices of all of us, the rest of the 99% world wide.

' She [Merkel], together with the French president Hollande, is just back from long negotiations in Kiev and Moscow. The renewed Minsk agreement they talked about would freeze the war at the current front line and give the eastern parts of Ukraine autonomy.

' Moscow would likely agree to that. '

Autonomy for Novorossya means the freedom to die under US/Ukrainian bombardment, with or without aid from Russia. with no choice in the matter.

The US is manifestly ready to fight to the last Ukrainian as Graham, Albright, and the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate crow, but Russia is willing to buffer itself from their onslaught to the last Novorossyan as well.

France and Germany are playing 'good cop' to the US 'bad cop' ... what's their plan in the event that Russia does not backdown?

I agree there is no military solution to the problem of US aggression - now exclusively by proxy - all around the world.

Having weaponized finance, the US has unleashed its financial 'nukes' preemptively in a first strike.

The Russians and the Chinese need to see the handwriting on the wall ... they are in an 'existential' war with the US - the Evil Empire - and, having been preemptively struck by the financial 'nuke', must respond financially with all they have to destroy the aggressor once and for all.

If the US/EU keep playing this game of nuclear chicken the EU will be destroyed, Russia will be destroyed, the US will be destroyed - and the US will not go down without destroying China as well.

Much better for Russian and China to use the financial 'nukes' now. Sell off all their US dollar/Euro denominated holdings, buying back their own currencies and those of other states - SCO nations, BRICS states - and announcing the arrival of a new ruble-yuan-non-dollar-non-euro financial order.

The financial 'nukes' are like the 'neutron bomb' : they will wipe out the present 1% population worldwide, leaving them impotent, but they will leave the infrastructure of the real world - and that's all of us, too, for we are all just part of the furniture of the 1%'s financial fantasy world - intact after the financial 'neutron nuclear Armageddon'.

The alternative to a financial Armageddon is a real nuclear Armageddon, and that will leave nothing on the planet intact.

The Euro and the US greenback are the root of all the wars waged on the planet and of all the planet's suffering at this particular point in time.

Posted by: jfl | Feb 7 2015 23:05 utc | 33

@28

b, says its typepad. There's a whole laundry list of linkables verboten. Given the full title of the article, or even a verbatim quote from within it, and the domain name of it's host it's usually possible to make an end run ... a lengthier sort of link ... via google search:

article-full-title or verbatim-quote site:domain-name.domain-extension

@29

agree completely

Posted by: jfl | Feb 7 2015 23:19 utc | 34

One of the conditions of the IMF loan package to Ukraine was a strong central government as opposed to more autonomous federal regions or provinces. Presumably, a centralized authority would be necessary to carry out the job of imposing the IMF's austerity demands on the citizens. The IMF deal may be finished or revisited. Ukraine as a viable nation may be finished.

The American's premise of "let's you and him fight" is out in the open now, and saner and cooler heads may well have looked over the edge of that cliff and have begun to step back and away. Hope so. The NATO people are not the best to source out on what is happening behind the scenes, as they are in effect the salesmen for the MIC, and so more weaponry and more troop deployments are always their preferred option - arrived reflexively without deep thought of strategic implications.

Posted by: jayc | Feb 7 2015 23:30 utc | 35

What was mumblecore moron (Joe Lieberman) doing at the NATO ‘Security Conference’? Is he still like somebody? How impressed the world must be with this group of idiots, ghouls, and bandits the US sends to these events. Wee Willie Winkie (Graham) doesn't need Viagra as long as he has a nice war to stiffen his resolve.

Posted by: Charles Van Wey | Feb 7 2015 23:32 utc | 36

A question: can the USA still supply those "defensive" weapons if the EU refuses to allow those weapons to be shipped through Europe?

How much can be airlifted in, and from where?

Or sent via the Bosphorus, right past the Russian Black Sea Fleet?

Posted by: Johnboy | Feb 7 2015 23:47 utc | 37

Doomsday Watch: Ukrainian government to seize personal savings

J.Hawk's Comment: Since no international funding is forthcoming, it only makes sense for the Ukrainian government to squeeze every little bit of assets still to be found in their country. Aside from fostering discontent, it also means that any future Ukrainian government (one that appears after the "special period" is over) will be facing impossible financial demands, both to international institutions and to their own citizens. This is making Greece look like a paragon of financial health. But it looks like the Kiev junta has in effect decided to resort to hostage-taking (except in this case the hostage is the entire population of the country) in order to get its way: either you give us what we want, or you will have a failed state in a civil war right in the middle of Europe. It's doubtful they are doing it at the behest of Washington, Berlin, or Brussels. It's more the case of puppets trying to control the puppet-masters.

It's also interesting that the original article on which this blog entry is based was published in the Ukrainian media. If Ukrainians needed any excuses to stage a bank run, they have one now.

Finally, one should ask oneself the question who exactly in Ukraine still has sizable hard currency (i.e., euros or dollars) deposits. The list includes the country's oligarchs and any enterprises which engage in large-scale import and export operations. Ultimately it's their wealth that the proposed law would target and, frankly, annihilate, because Ukrainian government bonds do not seem like the safest vehicle for preserving wealth these days. No wonder Kolomoysky and Baloga are suddenly in favor of a referendum to determine the fate of Eastern Ukraine...


Posted by: Nana2007 | Feb 7 2015 23:54 utc | 38

@Nana2007 #35:

That link doesn't work. Working link.

A personal note: I'm going to try using Twitter. I already had a Twitter account, but I wasn't comfortable tweeting using my real name. So I set up an anonymous account. It was not easy to find n name that had not already been taken. Unsurprisingly, "Demian" was already taken. (I avoid using made-up names for user id's.) All names that are the titles of a Plato dialog but one are taken, and I didn't like the one that was is available. So I went to my second source of user names: old German first names.

Posted by: Demian | Feb 8 2015 0:14 utc | 39

Meanwhile - events dear boy events. Munich is a non event. The battle space will now drive the narrative. Remember, diplomacy is war by any other means. This is a war. You don't know where or when it will stop. 40 cubic miles of oil to go - and counting

Posted by: bridger | Feb 8 2015 0:29 utc | 40

@Anonymous, 6:

"What is Breedlove for a name anyway? Sounds like a male pornstar."

One of my favorite old science fiction novels was Stanislaw Lem's Memoirs Found in a Bathtub, in which a future archeologist excavating the "Third Pentagon" encounters a manuscript including many officers with names such as Cashenblade, Blanderdash, etc. My theory: once a US military officer gets above a certain rank, they are assigned a name like a call sign from a Pentagon Random Name Generator.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 8 2015 0:57 utc | 41

- How many "Defense" stocks does Mr. Graham own ?

Posted by: Willy2 | Feb 8 2015 1:24 utc | 42

This is make it or break it time for Old Europe. If France and Germany don't take a stand here for a diplomatic settlement, this thing is going to escalate quickly out of control. With the US wanting to arm the Ukrainian army, and NATO aggressively talking trash, Europe must somehow find a way to diffuse this most dangerous situation. The continent has much to lose if it does not rise to the occasion.

Posted by: Kraken | Feb 8 2015 1:24 utc | 43

Merkel and Hollande were sent to Russia for two reasons. Firstly, in the hope that Putin might see the error of his ways and bow down before Empire. Secondly, failing that outcome, to provide cover for them given the US intent to have war. They will be able to say that they tried to bring peace, but for Russia, aggression, etc, etc.

Irrespective of words between Europe, Russia and the US, the Novorossians are not going to put up with Nazis bombarding them to pieces. And the lying sacks of shit known as the Ukrainian regime and the Nazi blackshirts are not going to give up in the attempts at cleansing the east. Pravy Sektor are laying the ground for a coup against Poroshenko, on the grounds that he is too soft. For all his fine words, Yatsenyuk will be more than happy to take Poroshenkos place and up the game.

Posted by: Yonatan | Feb 8 2015 1:25 utc | 44

b

Good read here:

Before you get your 'RU smug' up, remember Ukie grand larceny was all patterned after
the pioneer grand larceny to the east in Russia, after Fall of the Berlin wall, and
that Oligopteron fraud and corruption continues today in Crimea, as former Ukrainians
report their farmlands and factories have been privatized away by Russia's Oligarchs.

It's a Great Big Club, ...it has no state, it has no denomination, and it's global.
It will not stop, ever, until they hold everything, including your childrens' lives.

Posted by: ChipNikh | Feb 8 2015 1:27 utc | 45


@ Fran 12

I came across Sarkozy comment somewhere. Sarkozy is right and I too don't like him. BTW, you might be interested in National Press info. Le Pen website SITREP Ukraine's civil war.

http://www.nationspresse.info/

Can't read French, Ukrainian nor Russian but National Press info website provides excellent SITREP with 3rd party translation.

First time posting, excellent blog, well articulated and informed posters.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Feb 8 2015 1:33 utc | 46

26

Defense (sic) just awarded a $10M contract to Boeing for ... wood pallets. Now, I know, you're saying, what does America's 'premiere aerospace company' have to do with pallets?
Maybe they'll all the recycled pallets from OIF-OEF-A? You remember, those shrink-wrapped
bails of $100S, entire C-47 loads of them, mysteriously disappearing into the desert?

They're going to need a whole lot more than $10M worth of pallets, that will only hold
a fraction of what the Ukies need to remain solvent, before the next round of looting.

Speaking of looting, 42 tons of gold gone missing in Kiev, $37B value claimed, almost exactly 50Ts of gold ingots that the NY Reserve had to 'melt down and restrike', to replace bars that had gone missing when Germany demanded their Reichsmark-stamped gold bullion back.

See, even the Chosen has a sweet spot for old bullion stamped with the famousReichsmark Eagle.

Posted by: ChipNikh | Feb 8 2015 1:49 utc | 47

...
Still, it's hard to know how serious Hollande and Merkel are. If they were, you would think they would start criticizing the junta for its massive war crimes, but Hollande and Merkel are maintaining their studied silence. Pointing out that the Kiev junta is Nazi would make it difficult for USG to push for further escalation.
Posted by: Demian | Feb 7, 2015 3:15:59 PM | 7

Good point. Should be a useful barometer.
Bush II's early Fake War on Terror battle cries included derogatory references to Old Europe. Maybe it's time for Old Europe to begin publicly lamenting the demise of Old America, Democracy, Sovereignty ... and Peace.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 8 2015 1:59 utc | 48

This is from earlier (1/22/15) negotiations between for. min. Lavrov, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, Klimkin (Ukr.), and Fabius (Fr.) - file in the category of "picture is worth a thousand words:"

http://spravy.pravda.sk/svet/clanok/343116-stretnutie-o-ukrajine-prinieslo-pokrok-a-viacere-dohody/

Posted by: GoraDiva | Feb 8 2015 2:12 utc | 49

@ChipNikh #42:

that Oligopteron fraud and corruption continues today in Crimea, as former Ukrainians report their farmlands and factories have been privatized away by Russia's Oligarchs.
Do you have any links documenting that? Ukrainians report lots of things, a sizable portion of them being paranoid delusions.

@Hoarsewhisperer #45:

Maybe it's time for Old Europe to begin publicly lamenting the demise of Old America, Democracy, Sovereignty ... and Peace.
Yes, that eccentric DeepResource blogger I like linking to writes about how there is a future for amicable relations between Europe and the US, after the Empire falls apart, and the Old World occupies the New. One can dream…

Posted by: Demian | Feb 8 2015 2:36 utc | 50

"The Ukrainian prime minister Yatsenyuk, the puppet of the U.S. neocons, is an even stronger hawk and could be the one Victoria Nuland wants to use to replace Poroshenko."

The above should be seen as a remarkably ODD situation. But it's not.

Speaking of which, has anyone got Vicky's phone number? I want to ring her up to ask her who, if anyone, is going to replace the reviled Tony Abbott as PM in tomorrow's Liberal (Privatise Everything) Party "leadership spill."
I'm sure she already knows; and I wouldn't have to wait until tomorrow night to find out, officially, who she told them to select.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 8 2015 2:43 utc | 51

@Hoarsewhisperer #46:

I think the portion of the Empire that Nuland oversees is restricted to Eurasia. Somebody else in the State Department must be selecting Abbott's successor.

Posted by: Demian | Feb 8 2015 2:49 utc | 52

The Eastern Orthodox never developed a doctrine of just war. In contrast to the Roman Catholic church (and American evangelicals for that matter), Orthodox find all wars to be evil. Muslims, Catholics, and American evangelicals have a concept of "holy war", but Russians do not.

Posted by: Demian | Feb 8 2015 3:18 utc | 53

Following the lead of Greece, the European people have got to organize to throw off their one-percent-bought-and-sold governments. The Europeans elite are surely hanging on by the thinnest of threads now. This generation of spineless neo-liberal poodles and Tony Blair clones have nothing to offer their people except austerity and war.

Something grave and corrupt happened in Europe following the Bush years and during the Obama years. It should be investigated. Europe - inexplicably and at odds with public opinion - went from being largely independent (recall the German and French response to the Iraq invasion), to being complete lackeys of the US. The European Union is a sham: NATO is in charge in Brussels and the US is in charge of NATO. The US seems to have this latest crop of European "leaders" in their pocket. And as b mentioned, the US - far from any of the action - is trying to pull the puppet strings in such a way as to force the entire continent march itself into the fires of war.

Something deeper has occurred too. Europe is slowly losing the progressive, anti-militarist spirit that developed there following the horrors of two world wars. Lost is the "Third Way" that rejected both the authoritarianism of the east and the cut-throat (literally) capitalism of the US. The welfare state is everywhere under attack. Workers rights and economic freedom is being more and more replaced by genuflection towards royalty and the rich. Julian Assange, hold up in London's Ecuadorean Embassy, is facing worse treatment than Anders Breivik who murdered 77 people. The UK has practically become a territory of the United States, following the US lead in everything from domestic spying to neoliberalization economy.

The US is an existential threat to the peace that has reigned in Europe for 70 years. It may well be difficult for the European people to challenge their governments, but they have no choice: it is that, or face an even worse fate of watching Europe pushed into war and having their closest neighbors - MENA and Eastern Europe - being ruined by war and turned into hotbeds of extremism which will bring their chaos and terror to European cities.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 8 2015 3:25 utc | 54

This whole thing about Yatsenyuk becoming the president of Ukraine - does anyone really think the Right Sektor and Svoboda would stand for this? I doubt it.

@jayc - the "let's you and him fight" had me laughing. Exactly right - the US, despite Bush's claim that "the oceans no longer protect us" - is still geographically protected from all the shenanigans it sets off globally. That protection is exactly why it can allow its "allies" the freedom to support groups like ISIS, and can play so easily with the specter of a European war. The Atlantic and Pacific are what allows the US to do what it does without having to defend itself by waging a domestic campaign of religious war and internal terror like Saudi Arabia, or set up a walled in, torture and prison regime like Israel.

Europe may value their "open society" now, but they're surely going to lose it if they keep allowing the United States to cause trouble in their neighborhood.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 8 2015 3:35 utc | 55

Posted by: Demian | Feb 7, 2015 9:49:01 PM | 49

Oops, you're probably right.
I should phone the US Embassy wherein resides the Emperor of Australia (He Who Mu$t Be Obeyed).
Then again, the Emperor is probably busy stuffing Accompli$hment Award$ into bags for the Friend$ of Tony, whereas Vicky gets paid to let cats out of bags.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 8 2015 3:40 utc | 56

When in a hole -- stop digging!

"Doomsday Watch: Ukrainian government to seize personal savings" -- Link

Posted by: x | Feb 8 2015 4:04 utc | 57

@38 Ulysses S Grant's real name was Hiram. West Point had the wrong name when he arrived as a cadet. Despite his attempts to fix the problem, the army told Grant he was wrong about his name.

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Feb 8 2015 4:33 utc | 58

Is a farfetched endgame the partition of the Ukraine? That is, if the regime's patrons continue debating lethal aid vs. no military solution, though up the ante? Blue helmets to keep the peace run drugs guns and whores ala the former Yugoslavia?
Just speculating here.

Posted by: farflungstar | Feb 8 2015 4:51 utc | 59

@ 51: "Something grave and corrupt happened in Europe following the Bush years and during the Obama years."

Agreed. That " grave and corrupt" thing was Wall St. and London catching the EU in their "Debt Peonage" net. Using the Feds ability to create money from thin air, and passing it out to banks in 2008, after the economic crash, they "captured" banks around the globe using their financial weapons of war. Backed up by the IMF, and the World Bank, they continue to snare countries around the globe.


Posted by: ben | Feb 8 2015 5:10 utc | 60

Russian Spring

02/08/2015-02:26

Head of Donetsk Republic’s intelligence general Petrovskiy known also as “Khmuriy” (“Sullen”) shared some results of day battles on the fronts of Donetsk Republic:
“Settlement Redkodub (at the bottom of Debal`tsevo caldron) is no man land, same as Mogila Ostraya (a height in the same area). My people (special force of intelligence agency) took Kalinovka; it is north-west of Uglegorsk (suburbs of Debal`tsevo).

Because of stern shelling, the combatants left Kamenka (?), but took railway station Debal`tsevo-Sortirovochnaya (marshalling yard).

Today my people pinpointed subversion-reconnaissance group “Makeevskaya” (named after settlement) and liquidated it COMPLETELY during pursuit between settlement Makeevka and city Gorlovka.”


Russian Spring

02/07/2015-20:58

Summary from fronts by combatant Prokhorov:

A Ukrainian outpost at the entrance to Avdeevka has been taken. The street battles seem to begin.

Ukrainians tell that tanks of unblocking group are ready. The group is tasked to tear down Debal`tsevo caldron.

A Ukrainian outpost under Mariupol` was shattered.


Russian Spring

02/07/2015-09:16

Combatant Prokhorov summarized situation on the front line by the end of February 6:

In Chernukhino, a part of the settlement is controlled by the combatants (the Ukrainians hold the rest of the settlement).

In area of Troitskoye (along north side of Debal`tsevo caldron, Lugansk Republic) units of 128th brigade have been surrounded. Ukrainian fortification area near outpost 29 (Bakhmutka, Lugansk) had been struck by artillery. The road from Svetlodarsk (neck of Debal`tsevo caldron) to Debal`tsevo is in combatants’ crossfire.

Posted by: Fete | Feb 8 2015 5:49 utc | 61

From Common Dreams on world debt:
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/02/07/global-capitalisms-terrifying-new-math

Posted by: ben | Feb 8 2015 5:57 utc | 62

@14 It's a shame google is so totally useless these days

Posted by: Crest | Feb 8 2015 6:11 utc | 63

Posted by: Johnboy | Feb 7, 2015 6:47:02 PM | 34

Probably the route is from Afghanistan via plane to Dniepropetrovsk airport. I think they have already been doing that.

Alternatively, Poland and the Baltics selling, supplying them.

But weapons are not Ukraine's problem. They produce and export the stuff. The US would have to deliver high technology stuff Ukraine does not have plus the personell who know how to use it.

Take the escalation from there.

Considering Ukraine's and their US backers non existing strategy (raise the prize for Russia equals raising the prize for Ukraine), accepting US military support will deepen the hole Ukraine's "leadership" is in.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 8 2015 6:47 utc | 64

When Ukrainians Choose Not to Die in a War

The English page of a Ukrainian anti-war activist

What are the USNATO going to do about this? What if they give a war and nobody comes?

Posted by: chuckvw | Feb 8 2015 6:51 utc | 65

Demian at 7:

Still, it's hard to know how serious Hollande and Merkel are.

Well, they're more serious than most of us here including me expected they would be, so that's great news. Love the quote from Merkel, that simply supplying more arms to an army with no will to fight is nonsense. Add in what I said many months ago, that Russia repeatedly has shown it is willing to ratchet up its aid to Donbass in tandem with whatever the West is doing to help Ukraine forces, and the added fact that the Donbass military is motivated and professional.

Being from the US, it is always nice to learn that realism is still alive in other parts of the globe. Though American elites are often intelligent, they almost universally lack honest depoliticized education at their elite hangouts, and US 'news' has become hysterically unrealistic and war mongering. The 'news' in Western Europe ain't much better, so credit should be given to Merkel's (and Hollande's) educations? She at least knows that "0 (horrible morale) times 'a gazillion' (limitless weapon supplies) still equals 0." That will never beat a motivated military adequately supplied. Not hard to figure out.

But I think we need to veer away from the notion that Merkel/Hollande are abandoning their roles as loyal servants of the US. They're just realists, and that reality is defeat for the US/EU/IMF side in Eastern Ukraine. They're saying to Kerry/Nuland/Obama: "If all you offer are weapons, and that _is_ all you are offering, Ukraine will be defeated in Eastern Ukraine and soon. Therefore, 'our side' really needs to accept that we are military losers in this conflict. However much the US wants a war with Russia in Ukraine (and Hollande and I love your warmongering and wish you the best) it just ain't gonna happen. Find some other place to get your war on, because there's no one ready to fight for you in Ukraine except for a few thousand unbalanced brown shirts."

So, like in Syria, US warmongers foiled again! Good news, and time is running down, only about ten more years of the American century ... Can we make it there without a damn WW III?

Posted by: fairleft | Feb 8 2015 9:45 utc | 66

Something grave and corrupt happened in Europe following the Bush years and during the Obama years. It should be investigated. Europe - inexplicably and at odds with public opinion - went from being largely independent (recall the German and French response to the Iraq invasion), to being complete lackeys of the US. guest77 at 51.

I agree as well. I do think though *part* of what we see - or can make out - is due to the fact that some masks have fallen and gloves have come off (provoked by a ‘rising Russia’ and the now urgent need to split Europe from Russia..) revealing a state of affairs that was partially hidden or obscured before. Recall that the F and G stance on the Iraq war ultimately had no effect at all - it may have delayed the invasion..

I also say this because Switz. is very subservient to the US, but this isn’t noticed, it is not part of the political discourse, not evident. If anything, Switz. is seen as quarreling with the US, and resisting it’s moves, notably in the long, ongoing, financial-banking wars (jewish funds, banking secrecy, tax evasion, FATCA, etc.)

CH’s (no resources except snow, water, and bank accounts) strategy is to please the US whenever it can do so easily and under the radar (e.g. taking Gitmo prisoners, running US representation in Iran, selling widgets to Israel) in the hope of getting brownie points (not clever); temporising, resisting, insisting on time / the rule of law, etc. (à la Russia), before giving in. This strategy is OK, because it gives the US the illusion of facing an adversary (which is what they want, as they finally prevail after a ‘struggle’), and it provides the Swiss time to adapt. The hope is also for reasonable compromise, which is never attained (all this imho) but what does happen is some concessions are made by the US side. (Compromise is supposed to be win-win; minor concessions are moves in an agressive confrontation supposed to show one holds the upper hand.) This is getting too long and OT but the ex. is pertinent imho.

But guest you are right, there is far more to be explained. And the social changes in Europe, yes.

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 8 2015 13:36 utc | 67

The US Empire is closer to its demise than a lot of people think. It looks like US interest rates are about to spike/explode higher.

Posted by: Willy2 | Feb 8 2015 14:41 utc | 68

Sending this cast from some comic opera (Graham, Biden, et al.) could be interpreted as the US taking a piss on the process.

Posted by: rjj | Feb 8 2015 14:43 utc | 69

Demian #10

So Madeleine "It Was Worth It" Albright curls her lip in contempt at the German diplomat's avowal of peaceful means; Victorious Secret Nuland says "F*ck the EU". What else is new? What _would_ be news would be if the representatives of Germany, France, Italy gave the same treatment to the 'Merkins, which they dare not do. It is beyond question that foreign inspired regime change against Russia, and a turning the social and economic clock there back 20 years, and the conversion of Russia into a resource colony of the West - no matter how horrifying in detail - is not going to disturb the sleep of anyone of Merkel's or Hollande's ilk. The EU politicians disagreements with Obama about Ukraine are tactical only.

Posted by: gersen | Feb 8 2015 15:15 utc | 70

Fort Russ has a interview with military expert Michael Kofman of the Kennan Institute, conducted with the Ukrainian Novoe Vremia, "Donbass is lost, you have no army, you will get no weapons!". Tatiana Kozik's questions are in italics, I bolded the sentences towards the end.

Many believe that all problems are in the Ukrainian army. The Ukrainian army is unfit for combat, it has no coordination with the volunteer battalions - they do not fight as a unified force. It has many structural problems, that weapons will not solve, even if we sent our best tanks, and put rockets and grenade launchers on top of them....

In Ukraine, many are convinced that Ukraine needs American weapons, because without it we cannot achieve the ceasefire.

You cannot achieve a ceasefire with the armed forces. You simply don't have any.

When can we achieve something? Sanctions against Russia are not particularly enhanced. It begins to attack harder. So everyone sees the solution in armed resistance.

You see, these are the illusions of the Ukrainian government.

The real problem in Ukraine is that no one - neither Poroshenko nor Yatsenyuk - don't want to sign a real agreement on a compromise with Russia. They don't want to realize what had happened, and to give some political status to this militia. They are very afraid of the people, a third Maidan.

Indeed, the probability of the third Maidan exists.

The fact is that the West in Ukraine is not allowed to make serious adult decisions in this environment. They just keep saying "yes" to Ukraine.

Because of this, Ukrainians continue to live in the illusion that they with their fighters can stand against one of the largest armed military in the world. This can not happen. My colleagues in Russia, associated with the General staff, are well aware that any day, if Russia wants to, it can completely destroy the entire UAF in 72 hours. They have such plans.

We understand that.

That won't happen, because Russia doesn't want to....

What did the conflict reach? These territories are really lost. The only result that I see over the past year, is that Ukraine has been losing territory and soldiers. And there are no improvements. Sanctions have not changed the policy of Moscow.

Why do they attack? Because the Minsk agreements did not give Russia anything. Russia believes that it made a serious mistake when it signed an agreement in Minsk. Ukraine had no sincere interest to observe Minsk protocol. Plus everyone knows that in addition to this protocol, between Kiev and Moscow, there was the second protocol signed on September 19, where there was a map of control between the UAF and the militia. According to this map Ukraine had to give them Donetsk airport and areas that Ukraine was not going to ever give up. It's all well known. Ukraine was in no way going to give up, despite the fact that it signed the agreement. Nobody wants to go for a real compromise in Ukraine.

So maybe no weapons (they discuss the powerful Dem. & Rethuglican figures promoting the idea), but no compromise, no peace. Wash. is fighting to the last PravSek cyborg, to leave the region unstable, as folks have argued.

Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 8 2015 15:21 utc | 71

@ 62: "What if they give a war and nobody comes? "

Impoverished nations insure many pliable surfs.

Posted by: ben | Feb 8 2015 15:24 utc | 72

Sorry, wrong thread. DUH!

Posted by: ben | Feb 8 2015 15:27 utc | 73

Or not. Time for the all-nighter to end. Apologies!

Posted by: ben | Feb 8 2015 15:30 utc | 74

Posted by: ben | Feb 8, 2015 10:24:37 AM | 69

Pliable serfs aren't good enough and serfs become much less pliable when it comes to getting killed. See what they call the 'Afghan Army'. The US/EU/Ukraine side needs soldiers motivated to fight and kill folks who a year ago were their countrymen. The realists knows that they have failed to find such people in sufficient numbers, and so the US can't have its war.

Posted by: fairleft | Feb 8 2015 15:35 utc | 75

To add a laugh: The dress rehearsal that wouldn't be broadcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ErE7kl_Bk

Posted by: g_h | Feb 8 2015 15:36 utc | 76

The Germans and French are (more than) willing participants in all this.
They've done it before - they'll do it again.
They're NOT puppets to the AngloZionists - they work together!

Hope Putin is not fooled by those weasels Merkel and Hollande...

The more things change...

Posted by: S-true | Feb 8 2015 15:38 utc | 77

In a different vein, a very interesting video available over at New Cold War, Mozgovoy’s manifesto: Self-defense commander in Luhansk argues for a social future for Ukraine. Mostly militant social democracy, with a dash of pan-Slavism thrown in as well. Important enough for me to watch, I thought (usually just music vids for me), subtitles in Eng. and Italian.

And while we're talking commanders, we should note Mercouris' piece on Strelkov at Russia Insider. He has the air of late Imperial commander about him, I expect him to saddle up and ride off with Vronsky (at the end of Anna Karenina) to fight with the Serbs against the Ottomans. He makes clear his disagreements with and independence from the Kremlin.

Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 8 2015 15:38 utc | 78

Oh BTW - I hope the Germans/French pay for what they did in former Yugoslavia.
I'm keeping a tally on that.

Posted by: S-true | Feb 8 2015 15:52 utc | 79

Here we have it, straight from the horse. Time to drop the illusions in diplomacy. The Kyiv Post reposted this item from the UK Telegraph. Ukraine crisis: US officials compare peace efforts to appeasing Hitler.

In a meeting attended by General Philip Breedlove, Nato’s military commander, and Victoria Nuland, the US’s most senior European diplomat, Angela Merkel was described as “defeatist” for her opposition to arming Ukrainian forces, according to details leaked to Bild newspaper.

Mrs Merkel and Mr Hollande’s peace initiative was dismissed as “Moscow bull****” at the meeting of American delegates to the Munich Security Conference, held behind closed doors at the conference hotel.

Senator John McCain reportedly compared the initiative to the Munich Agreement in 1938 between Neville Chamberlain, the British Prime Minister at the time, and Adolf Hitler, which allowed Nazi Germany to annexe the Sudetenland.

“History shows us that dictators will always take more if you let them,” Senator McCain allegedly said. “They will not be dissuaded from their brutal behaviour when you fly to meet them to Moscow – just as leaders once flew to this city....”

Delegates at the American meeting in Munich discussed how to press ahead with arming Ukrainian forces despite the new push for peace, according to the report in Bild.

“We would not be able to deliver enough weapons for Ukraine to defeat Russia. That’s not our goal,” Gen Breedlove reportedly said.

“But we must try to raise the price on the battlefield for Putin to slow this whole problem down so sanctions and other measures have time to work,” the military commander added.

I wonder what "other measures" they could have planned. Worrisome, no?

So we're willing to kill hundreds of soldiers and innocents so that we can have the righteous satisfaction that the sanctions worked. And that we did not offer any concessions to the legitimate concerns of Russia and Novorossiya is an added plus. And if it fails, we have our own "stab in the back theory," perfidious Germania.

Our tax dollars at work. Plenty to destroy Donetsk, none to rebuild Detroit or our collapsing infrastructure.

Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 8 2015 16:06 utc | 80

@ 72: Yes, if winning is the idea, but I'm convinced the empire doesn't care about winning, it cares about disrupting. Mercenaries will always be available to do just that, disrupt and create chaos.

Posted by: ben | Feb 8 2015 16:09 utc | 81

Nikolai Azarov, PM Ukraine 2010 -14. Youtube 34 mins eng subs. Feb 2015. (via Saker.)

For those who prefer to read text only the first two comments (for me now) offer a transcript.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v033nO-51I

Some interesting points, mostly about the economy, from his own pov. of course. For ex. that he saw Ukr. as a potential power-house and a competitor with Germany. Between the lines (he doesn’t exactly say) it shows that the W aimed to break a Nationalist-State run economy in favor of private chaos, as is usual.

This one parag. summary of an academic paper, 2006, (paper behind paywall) offers some perspective.

http://tinyurl.com/n5sbvf5

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 8 2015 16:14 utc | 82

S-true at 76 -- I'm with you on that, but I ain't holding my breath 'til it happens. The Great Powers just keep running up the score. France has got some 'splaining to do for Libya and Syria, so add them to the tally.

So until circumstances permit redress, an ounce of prevention....

Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 8 2015 16:14 utc | 83

A leak from Merkel to point out that the Ukrainian situation is worse than the media pretend.

Sicherheitskreise: Bis zu 50.000 Tote

Translation: German security services estimate that up to 50,000 death have occurred from fighting in Ukraine.

I agree. There is MASSIVE use of artillery in east Ukraine and that is devastating to infantry and light armor as well as to civilians. There are videos from the countryside with whole settlements/towns destroyed by artillery. Several hundred of lightly armored infantrycarriers have been destroyed. Each can carry up to 10 troops. The "official" UN number of 5000 and some is complete nonsense.

Posted by: b | Feb 8 2015 16:59 utc | 84

Noirette at 82 --

I read the abstract, I was more intrigued by the "transition industry," run by figures like Aslund and Sachs, than Donbas coal restructuring (not to detract from it's distinguished role in Soviet and Imperial industrial history). It's a known pheneomena, nice to see someone named it. As an adjunct, I might be able to avoid the fee. Tx!

I see b's recent post at 84, it looks like Breedlove, etc., are getting a little pushback, we'll see how long the sniping lasts.

Does Obama let his underlings, the Rethuglicans' usual bloodlust, and H. Clinton stampede him (probably, sadly)?

Or does he show some sense and gumption and buckle down on really earning that Peace Prize, at long last (sadly, probably not)?

Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 8 2015 17:17 utc | 85

rufus magister at 83

Agreed!
I do believe that justice prevails though (albeit on a personal level).
Wouldn't want to be Hollande/Merkel come reckoning time...

Read This from a former American patriotic "warrior" for better understanding...

Posted by: S-true | Feb 8 2015 17:38 utc | 86

S-true at 86 -- Let's make it a Trifecta of Eurotrash! Tony Blair needs to stand in a dock somewhere (along with his pal, George the Lesser; we'll fill out the Trifecta of Trailer Trash later).

Gotta run an errand, hope to remember the link later, tx.

Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 8 2015 17:54 utc | 87

Hear hear Rufus!
One can only hope...

Posted by: S-true | Feb 8 2015 18:07 utc | 88

@Demian #53:

I think I owe people an explanation for why I am Lutheran instead of Russian Orthodox, even though Russian Orthodoxy has shown itself to be more resilient than Lutheranism (or Protestantism in general for that matter) against the predations of the Empire. Russia has been able to maintain its cultural identity; western Europe has not. So why do I go on preferring Lutheranism to Russian Orthodoxy? Here is the answer:

Matthäus-Passion: Können Tränen meiner Wangen. Nobody has come close to J. S. Bach in making Christianity ecstatically beautiful. That is why I prefer Lutheranism to Russian Orthodoxy.

Posted by: Demian | Feb 8 2015 18:10 utc | 89

Feb. 2015, recruter for the army in Zaporozhié is shouted down and heckled by a very determined lady who does not stop and lays it all out. Notably, he says a United Ukraine is desirable (err? while getting ppl to kill each other?) and mentions the theft of Crimea. - A ‘united’ Ukr. is code for taking Crimea back.

The crowd approves of her, She shouts, where were you when Krim decided to join Russia?? What? They have the right! - and she is not cut off or prevented from speaking. 5 mins.

Subs in French only. It’s a great impromtu summary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpoPIFNlYIg#t=286

other, Feb 2015:

Ukraine’s parliament has passed a law which authorizes commanding officers to use physical force against army defectors. (…) .. have the right to personally use physical force, special means, and weapons when in combat against soldiers who commit “criminal acts” …. see details, Russia Insider.

http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/02/07/3228

Getting the Ukranians to fight each other is becoming an impossible sell. Oops, not quite, the State itself declares it will fight with violence against its own enlisted! Shoot them if needs be.

//rufus my interest is in the coal / steel / metallurgy / dependent production industries, in the Donbass, you get the picture//

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 8 2015 18:40 utc | 90

"Plenty to destroy Donetsk, none to rebuild Detroit or our collapsing infrastructure."

Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 8, 2015 11:06:02 AM | 80

that about sums american policy which is foremost a foreign policy agenda..

Posted by: james | Feb 8 2015 18:51 utc | 91

@Demian

Nobody has come close to J. S. Bach in making Christianity ecstatically beautiful. That is why I prefer Lutheranism to Russian Orthodoxy.

I beg to differ:

1
2
3
4
5

Posted by: S-true | Feb 8 2015 19:33 utc | 92

s-true - some very nice music in there. thanks.

Posted by: james | Feb 8 2015 20:02 utc | 93

@james:
No problem mate - my pleasure :)


On a different note - WOW, someone in Russia FINALLY gets it:
Andrew Korybko for SputnikNews

(hoping that Putin reads that op-ed LOL)

Posted by: S-true | Feb 8 2015 20:11 utc | 94

@james: no problem mate, my pleasure :)

_______________________________

On a slightly different note...anyone read THIS?
Seems not everyone in Russia is naive as to what Merkel and Hollande are really up to...

Posted by: S-true | Feb 8 2015 20:26 utc | 95

@S-true
Hate quoting myself...just read SputnikNews...
URL doesn't seem to work...sorry


btw how come Sputnik is "redacted/censored" here? Copyrights or what?

Posted by: S-true | Feb 8 2015 20:29 utc | 96

@ S-true #92:

I am willing to concede for the sake of the argument that the music you linked to is as beautiful as Bach. But all of the tracks you linked to are a cappella: there are no instruments. As far as I can understand, music is produced by the use of instruments, with the human voice being just another instrument. Thus, music which only uses the human voice is marginal and of little general interest.

The Bach piece I linked to is put together like a pop song. First you have the instruments setting up a rhythm, and then the vocals come in. In the tracks you link to, not only are there no instruments: there is also no sense of rhythm. Thus I would call the tracks you link to worship, as opposed to music.

Posted by: Demian | Feb 8 2015 20:38 utc | 97

Noirette 19 -- Totally cool, the heavy battalions of Soviet industrialization there in the Donbas. I studied Soviet industrial organization & policy back in the day (including a textile mill near Smolensk), I dabble in a little shipbuilding history occasionally even now.

in re 92, etc.

As an atheist, these are aesthetic rather than theological questions. When it comes to ceremony, I lean High Church. But when it comes to music, usually Low Church (though those cathedral organs do make a nice big, warm sound). Bach is nice, but no one sings praise music like The King.

Can I get an "Amen" from the deacons!?

Posted by: rufus magister | Feb 8 2015 21:07 utc | 99

I am willing to concede for the sake of the argument that the music you linked to is as beautiful as Bach. But all of the tracks you linked to are a cappella: there are no instruments. As far as I can understand, music is produced by the use of instruments, with the human voice being just another instrument. Thus, music which only uses the human voice is marginal and of little general interest.

The Bach piece I linked to is put together like a pop song. First you have the instruments setting up a rhythm, and then the vocals come in. In the tracks you link to, not only are there no instruments: there is also no sense of rhythm. Thus I would call the tracks you link to worship, as opposed to music.

Sorry, I understood your argument to be about Spirituality and NOT aesthetics, might have misunderstood though...as is often the case with me.
But, still even as a purely aesthetic preference - I prefer what I've linked to Johan Sebastian (though I'm a great fan).

Posted by: S-true | Feb 8 2015 21:07 utc | 100

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