Some Additional Bits On The Hebdo Attack
On the Hebdo attack go read "Unmournable Bodies" by Teju Cole who seems to somewhat agree with my take.
It seems that the attackers were underclass French boys who, out of not finding much sense in their lives, jumped on the first ideology that came along and promised them meaning. They were only tangentially, if at all, related to the various fundamentalist AQ entities in the Middle East.
The whole political outrage over "free speech" in this case is completely made up. There is no "free speech" in France or elsewhere in Europe or in the U.S. Most states have blasphemy and lèse-majesty laws. Additionally social laws are effectively in place against other speech issues. Just try to make a few public point about the racist colonizations project of some east European in west Asia and see the reaction. Hebdo Charles itself fired one of its writers for alleged anti-semitism. A court ruled the writer was unlawfully terminated without a sane reason.
My personal position is that there is not, and should not be, an absolute right to "free speech". "Free speech" is often abused to provide cover for sawing strife within groups and nations and between them. Societies are, in my view, right to keep the most vile stuff within their frames of reference off limits.
Some people think that all Muslims should somehow responsible for the three lunatics in Paris and should apologize. Here (audio) is a really good response to such nonsensical requests.
Posted by b on January 10, 2015 at 16:13 UTC | Permalink
next page »My personal position is that there is not, and should not be, an absolute right to "free speech". "Free speech" is often abused to provide cover for sawing strife within groups and nations and between them. Societies are, in my view, right to keep the most vile stuff within their frames of reference off limits.
Philosophically agree w/you.
However, I increasingly come to the conclusion the law doesn't matter in these matters. Here (US) these recent decades, the law governing this stuff has increasingly been dictated by most powerful interests conducting abuses you speak of. People are going to do what they do.
The bigger problem I think is the remainder of populations who either cower to these people, or become indoctrinated by them. There simply is not a critical mass of people outside these interests, to data having demonstrated sufficient unified principle >> behavior >> fortitude to overcome this stuff.
Posted by: jdmckay | Jan 10 2015 16:30 utc | 2
And now all western politician head to Paris to march in the streets, just feel to throw up.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 10 2015 17:01 utc | 3
and in the states people are being arrested for making verbal threats against police.
Posted by: lizard | Jan 10 2015 17:06 utc | 4
I try to use Molly Ivins' words as my guideline:
"There are two kinds of humor. One kind that makes us chuckle about our foibles and our shared humanity — like what Garrison Keillor does. The other kind holds people up to public contempt and ridicule — that’s what I do. Satire is traditionally the weapon of the powerless against the powerful. I only aim at the powerful. When satire is aimed at the powerless, it is not only cruel — it’s vulgar."
And as Max Blumenthal, as well as Bernhard, pointed out, Charlie Hebdo fired a cartoonist (Maurice Sinet/Siné) for ONE allegedly anti-Semitic article and cartoon, for which he received death threats from the Jewish Defense League (JDL):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin%C3%A9
The rag was definitely not an equal opportunity offender.
No, I’m not much of a Charlie, meaning that my tolerance for racist, shock-jock satire, especially directed at the powerless, is very low.
H/T: Ritzl @ Mondoweiss
Posted by: Cynthia | Jan 10 2015 17:11 utc | 5
Let's remember the bombings of Rome RR stations as well as other bombings just so we could, at that time, accuse the Communists. Gladio/CIA was very active all across Europe at that time. It included the killing of Italian PM Aldo Moro. There has not been one European election in which the CIA did not interfere.
So, when Francois Hollande decided to support an independent Palestinian State, subsequently supported Palestinian membership in the ICC, Netanyahu had a cow and said France would be sorry.
Subsequent statements by Hollande that sanctions against Russia should be stopped because they were bad for Europe got him in hot water with the hegemon.
What better way then to create a false flag operation by well trained operatives who, believe it or not, just happened to know that there was a meeting going on at Charlie Hebdo that had all the players in one room, to punish France AND to accuse and revile the Muslims. Killing 2 flies with one stone. Very conveniently they spoke fluent French. Very unprofessional and shabby to leave their own identification in the car. Reeks like Mohammed Atta whose passport miraculously survived the fire during 911. Anyone remember the Boston bombing?
And then we have another altercation with a hostage taker in a Orthodox Jewish Deli just in case WE didn't get IT after Charlie Hebdo killings. Yes we know, it is the evil Muslim terrorists who are against freedom of speech and hate the Jews. Missing is the sordid reality that France together with the West has funded/trained and aided terrorism of ISIL in Libya, Iraq and Syria.
So France can engage in terrorism in the M.E. but the world falls apart if they receive in kind, not necessarily by real terrorist,most likely patsies on behalf of a "greater good" snowing the people of France and the world as Gladio/CIA/Mossad engage in terror in France. I am against killing for whatever reason, but I am definitely NOT Charlie.
Wait for the next installment.
Posted by: Gerry1211 | Jan 10 2015 17:24 utc | 6
Bran gave a great explanation for the no blood head shot seen in the video on the other thread for those who haven't seen it.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 10, 2015 11:27:32 AM | 1
No he didn't
The angle of the gun barrel and the subsequent dust trail in the slo-mo video show that the Cop was not hit by the any bullet fired at the time from that gun
Charlie Hebdo police officer shooting zoomed in - cop "head-shot" in slow mo
What your friend "Bran" posted was an exercise in attempting to ineptly explain-away the contents of the slo-mo video by throwing up a deceptive smokescreen of definitive sounding BS which didn't address the central point that one can clearly see from the video that any bullet fired from the AK did not strike the Cop on the ground.
This is clear from viewing the video and requires no further "explanation" from anyone, let alone your imaginary friend "Bran"
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 10 2015 17:51 utc | 7
Info can be read here. It was not a cartoon but remarks by Maurice Siné in his column on July 2, 2008. A lawsuit had been filed by LICRA (Ligue Internationale Contre le Racisme et l'Antisémitisme) on two occasions, in 1982 and in 2008 against cartoonist Maurice Siné:
Sinet is subpoenaed September 9, 2008 before the 6th Criminal Chamber (press) the High Court of Lyon by the Licra for "inciting racial hatred". The hearing on the merits has been scheduled for January 29, 2009. It was finally held on 27 and 28 January 2009.
On February 24, 2009, he was acquitted in Lyon, judges considering that Sinet had used his right to satire. In March, Sinet is however dismissed a libel suit brought against Claude Paris Askolovitch .
On 30 November 2010, the High Court of Paris condemned Charlie Hebdo for moral and financial prejudice against Sinet. The judgment states in fact that "it can not be claimed that the terms of the chronic Sine ... are anti-Semitic or that it has made a mistake by writing. "Rotary Publishing, publisher of the weekly, will have to pay 40,000 euros in damages to Maurice Sinet for breach of contract. Charlie Hebdo appealed, and in December 2012, the Paris Court of Appeal confirmed the conviction and increases the amount of damages to 90,000 . [Source: Wikipedia]
Was the Troll, usually so grammatically correct, trawling for pedantic nit-wit pickers when he wrote "to insight rather than to inform?" We will probably never know, but his attempts at incite are always amusing.
Posted by: CaptainCook | Jan 10 2015 17:54 utc | 9
France is the no. 1 W. country that is ‘supposedly’ vulnerable to civil strife thru manipulation of the Arab-muslim dimension - large no. present thru long-standing cheap-labor immigration, colonialist past and yes *present*, racism against Arabs, etc. - but it resisted until recently (but see the Merah shootings in 2012, but who remembers that? See how fast that indignation goes down the memory hole?)
The original idea of terrorist attacks (since some time before 9/11, other topics left out,..) was to whip up hate against enemies of Israel - Arabs, muslims - who coincidentally had their expensively-clad cotton derrières sitting on massive spouting oil reserves. 9/11 was then used to justify invading ‘n destroying Afghanistan and Iraq.
Russia, Turkey, others, all in raucous yet uniform chorus after 9/11, we TOO will FIGHT TERRORISM, etc. (First! our own internal enemies! ..ha ha..) The only terrorism and contra-terror rationales or actions the Hegemon allows are against Ayrabs, sand-niggers, muslims, radical islamists etc. without any exceptions. Note good Muslims can exist, e.g. moderate rebels in Syria or the Muslim Brotherhood, Morsi, in Egypt.
Islamist terrorism became a wet-dream script for a) provocateurs, thin on the ground, but maybe some cartoonists who earn good pay, b) authoritarians, law enforcement, arms sellers, bio-warfare types, etc., c) those who want to show subservience, loving hands, to the USA.
Add on, d) non-white angry potential criminal sadist or murderer, as there is some support, rationale, etc. hovering to be embraced thru the pretense of love for the Prophet.
C. Kouachi, in F
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clCRRyTvWMo
Partial trans NSBC http://tinyurl.com/n69jo5g
Makes for a heady mix, as I said before, I’m surprised there haven’t been more deathly attacks.
It is too tempting, too easy. Even a modest terrorist attack, outsourced very cheaply, easy to organise, maybe 50K per terrorist (they make money too), three cars, some bombs, phones, or guns, etc., peanuts, can bring tremendous profits, a very lucrative investment, in terms of funding for police, military, weapons, new IT programs, surveillance matériel, experts, pundits on board from day one, new Gvmt. anti-terror program staffed with 150 ppl, justification for Gvmt. surveillance, control, etc. With minimal loss of life! (Surely this is a well-touted excuse?)
Ok, ideally you should torture some folks, but you can pretend to do that or skip it for now.
Posted by: Noirette | Jan 10 2015 18:16 utc | 10
There is no "free speech" in France or elsewhere in Europe or in the U.S. Most states have blasphemy and lèse-majesty laws.
No source, no examples. Not sure what you are trying to say here.
By "Most states" do you mean EU states, or US states?
Which US states are you alleging have blasphemy and lese-majesty laws? And of those, which ones have blasphemy and lese-majesty laws that conform to the 1st Amendment?
It's not that there is no "free speech"; the point is how broadly or narrowly "free speech" is defined by different courts in different jurisdictions. No one, except Justice Black perhaps, has ever seriously argued that there should be no limits on speech. For instance, there has never been a time in America when defamation was not actionable.
Posted by: Sequitur | Jan 10 2015 18:26 utc | 11
@6 Gerry 1211
Great comment Gerry. 100% on the money.
Posted by: Kraken | Jan 10 2015 18:31 utc | 12
Posted by: Cynthia | Jan 10, 2015 12:11:36 PM | 5
The mullahs and the clerics are pretty powerful. Satire is humorously exposing ironical contradiction and there is no shortage of that. It's like picking low-hanging fruit from a tree. Unfortunately, just as there's no one to audit the auditors, there's no one to satirize the satirists and so publications like Charlie Hebdo are not held to account and satirically exposed for their hypocrisy. To fire one of their cartoonists for anti-Semitism is satirical blasphemy. I'm going to have to take Charlie to task in my blog post and post a satirical Jewish rip to keep it fair and balanced. I'll choose a cartoon about how some Jews have created an industry out of the holocaust. It's an accurate observation that deserves more satirical derision.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 10 2015 18:39 utc | 13
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 10, 2015 12:51:37 PM | 7
My friend Bran? I didn't know I had a friend named Bran. If I did, I'd ask him/her to change their name to Bran Muffin.
That's not all Bran Muffin said, though. What about the other police officers who were killed. Let's say the one on the sidewalk wasn't, hypothetically, and it was a fake out. Why some officers but not others? Why any officers if the police were in on it? If the officer on the sidewalk was faking it, where does he go now? Fiji? Russia? Chechnya? However, I thought about this during my seven mile run today, and you're right, what Bran Muffin said about the head shot sounds nice and straight forward, but it doesn't make sense. Why did JFK's head get blown clear off and this guy's head looks unmolested? Also, I don't think the shell casing would kick up concrete dust like that.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 10 2015 18:49 utc | 14
Freedom Fighters Gun Strike in Europe Is Said to Have Killed 12 Militants
PARIS, France — At least 12 foreign militants were believed to have been killed in a freedom fighter gun strike in the North Paris tribal region on Wednesday morning, a Liberation security official said.The Liberation official said guns fired 128 precision bullets into a compound in the Cafe Au Lait subdistrict at 6:40 a.m. The area is close to the headquarters of numerous French businesses.
“The guns targeted a base of a French commander known as Francoise, killing 12 French militants. Two militants are wounded,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the news media.
It was unclear whether Francoise was there at the time of the attack. The local news media has reported that he is allied with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and engaged in plans to ship troops and weaponry to Western Asia.
Gun strikes in France, often attributed to Muslims, prompt regular diplomatic protests from the entire Western world.
Separately, the Liberation military said four terrorist hide-outs and a training center for bombers were damaged by gun strikes late Saturday in a remote suburb of the nearby South Paris tribal region.
In a brief statement, the military said that “6 terrorists, including some bomber pilots, were killed in precise gun strikes.” There was no independent confirmation of the military’s claim.
Last summer, the Liberation military launched a long-awaited offensive against French and foreign militants holed up in the Western Europe region. The military claims that it now controls 0.4 percent of the region.
NATO attacks in recent years have left hundreds of thousands dead.
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 10 2015 19:03 utc | 15
I've said it from the beginning, it's simply not 'satire', what these clowns are doing. Charlie Hebdo's staff cartoonists, along w her Dutch and Australian sisters, are pure Der Sturmer-type nothingburgers when it comes to cleverness or originality, and most definitely targeting the oppressed as opposed to the oppressors. Saying this, acknowledging this as a relevant fact, is not inapproriate wrt to the victims.
Someone on another thread was defending their 'articles' ; "I only read Der Sturmer for the articles" or something along those lines - 'cos you, know, they do an economics column and stuff. Serious Journalism.)
Charlie Hebdo is to 'classy' Parisians what Fox News is to 'classy' Americans. Some of these assholes in Australia actually are Murdoch guys, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Charlie Hebdo had also sold out to one or other of these vampire squids, on-the-record, or not. Anyway whether or not they had, they were definitely capturing France's 'Fox News' demographic. They sit in the middle of a metro city with the highest percentage of muslims of any western city and make it their business to mock the entire community. It's akin to putting an abortion clinic across from the Mormon temple in Salt Lake City and throwing the abortions on their lawn(the awful cliched vomit cartoons are the abortions, if you catch my drift).
They'd hired some half-assed security, almost a thumb of the nose in itself - and don't get me started on the ACTUAL martyr-lust...of the victims. The whole thing is just so pathetic, so 'prophetic' too. In the 'no one could've predicted' faux-concern parlance.
Posted by: L Bean | Jan 10 2015 19:18 utc | 16
I think that this entire episode is being
totally blown-up (pardon the pun, and my bad grammar) out of all proportion.
Europe has been dealing with terrorism-type incidents for decades
(look at Northern Ireland, even with 3500+deaths over 40+years, the situation
has been kept well under control)
Why the big fuss?
qui bono?
answer: the politico-types
(you cant let a crisis go to waste, now can you?)
the politicos/MSM are like porkers rolling in the mud.
(i'm loving it-----madonalds)
Posted by: chris m | Jan 10 2015 19:34 utc | 17
#4 - Cry me a river Lizard. Friday night in San Francisco four brothers were found shot to death in a stolen car at Laguna and Page. Possibly gang related. Tell me again "black lives matter"
Posted by: momo | Jan 10 2015 19:47 utc | 18
@Sequitur no. 11
Well said.
Do we really want, for example, anti-Israel speech to be defined as anti-semitic speech and then considered illegal?
Posted by: sleepy | Jan 10 2015 20:00 utc | 19
Charlie Hebdo also active smearing Putin
http://fortruss.blogspot.ru/2015/01/charlie-hebdos-anti-putin-cartoons.html
h/t The Kremlin Stooge
Posted by: ruralito | Jan 10 2015 20:05 utc | 20
jdmckay @ 2 --
Regrettably I have to take exception to this idea. How long will it be before anything but the most bland and effusive praise of established authorities and assorted random crackpots is banned as "offensive"? Will it be, do you think, noble and enlightened souls such as yourself who will make these decisions?
Don't like it, don't buy it, ignore it or denounce it in as strong as lang. as you feel necessary. Actions always speak louder than words, they are what should be regulated and if needed punished in any society hoping to administer Justice.
chris m @ 17 -- now there's finally some sense on this whole incident, many tx. If I may parody a favorite -- America runs on Druken! Coffee, Irish cream and sugar, French Cruller and a Boston Cream, please!
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 10 2015 20:06 utc | 21
Remember the Black Widows who blew themselves up on the Moscow Metro? Of course you do! It was all over the media. The outrage was sky high!
Bet you didn't know it was Putin's fault.
http://fortruss.blogspot.ru/2015/01/charlie-hebdos-anti-putin-cartoons.html h/t The Kremlin Stooge.
Posted by: ruralito | Jan 10 2015 20:16 utc | 22
‘He was silent but you could tell that he was in real pain’
http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/he-was-silent-but-you-could-tell-that-he-was-in-real-pain/
"An eyewitness account of the flogging today of Raif Badawi an activist in Saudi Arabia sentenced to 10 years in prison and 1,000 lashes for setting up a website for public debate. The witness has not been identified for security reasons."
Made me think of Charia Hebdo and free speech: "100 lashes if you're not dead of laughter".
How dare this man open a public debate in Saudi Arabia ? Does he not know that free speech is not their values?
As I commented on your site previously, Charlie Hebdo is an institution in France. Blasphemy, profanity, scatology and satire are very important to us. It's an old tradition against tyranny. And I am sorry to have to say that, but you are not making laws in France or dictating what Frenchness is. Not you or Muslims.
You are trying to portrait Charlie Hebdo as uniquely Islamophobe and that is simply not the truth. They shit on everybody. Especially their new friends, Marine Lepen, the queen of England or the Pope. But Muslims are the only one reacting violently and this is specific to this religion.
Why Charlie Hebdo Must Be Free to Offend All — Even Us
http://forward.com/articles/212292/why-charlie-hebdo-must-be-free-to-offend-all-ev/
For those interested in a less bigot opinion the MOA:
Understanding Charlie Hebdo
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/01/charlie_hebdo_cartoons_the_anti_clerical_newspaper_tradition_that_s_as_french.html
Posted by: aliena | Jan 10 2015 20:28 utc | 23
Maurice Sine former cartoonist of Charlie Hebdo was awarded damages when he was accused of inciting racial hatred, he was found not guilty. If on the other hand Charlie Hebdo had been found to have been guilty of the far more offensive cartoons directed at Blacks or Muslims like this example http://www.islametinfo.fr/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/1418433_226701860837248_576295875_n.jpg the culprits may have been guilty of complicity in the murder of the two policemen, on the grounds that what happened was a foreseeable and expected consequence of the incitement
Posted by: harry law | Jan 10 2015 20:32 utc | 24
oops, America runs on Drunken, not a good day w/typos -- but him really here to say, non seq. at 11, just noticed it, I'm with sleepy at 19, good stuff. No state relig., so how can the state have a view on blasphemy?
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 10 2015 20:40 utc | 25
Also in agreement with Gerry #6, for more analysis on this theme- the fingerprints of an intelligence op- here's a few good links. I should mention I'm really starting to like this guy Jay Dyer, smart dude, he was on Red Ice Radio few days ago. Great interview, best I've heard there in months (they can range from fabulous to God awful depending on guest)... I'm not 100% on the false flag aspect but it sure is fishy. Ain't they all though?
http://jaysanalysis.com/2015/01/08/the-french-connection-false-flags-and-the-charlie-hebdo-incident/
http://jaysanalysis.com/2015/01/10/paris-terror-suspect-met-with-sarko-in-2009/
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2015/01/paris-shooters-just-returned-from-natos.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2015/01/paris-shooting-suspects-under-french.html
And the Red Ice interview
http://www.redicemembers.com/secure/radio/program.php?id=933
Posted by: Colinjames | Jan 10 2015 20:42 utc | 26
@16 L Bean
You just don't know what you're talking about. Charlie Hebdo cartoonists are anarchists and puke on Marine Lepen and extreme right wing people.
It's a fucking fanzine!
Willem: "Nous vomissons sur ceux qui, subitement, disent être nos amis"
http://focus.levif.be/culture/livres-bd/willem-nous-vomissons-sur-ceux-qui-subitement-disent-etre-nos-amis/article-normal-360743.html
Posted by: aliena | Jan 10 2015 20:43 utc | 27
23
Re: The blatant Hypocrisy of the French and the Madness of the Pro-Israel crowd
The French "Satirical" rag Charlie Hebdo willingly took part in Anti-Muslim campaigns when, in it's February 9, 2006 edition, it joined with Islamophobic bigots all over the Western World in publishing a series of cartoons specifically designed to insult Islam and Muslims.
Phillipe Val, at the time Editor of the French rag Charlie Hebdo loudly proclaimed at that time, his love of 'Freedom of the press' while choosing to reproduce these cartoons, which he knew were certain to cause offense among Muslims.
Then a very short time later, in 2006, the very same Phillipe Val just as loudly sacked the satirist 'Sine' when he was accused of 'Anti-Semitism', following a rather ridiculously shrill uproar by France's Jewish community, when the satirist commented on the marriage of the son of Nichols Sarkosy to a rich heiress of Jewish extraction.
What he said was merely:
'He'll go a long way in life, this lad!'.nothing more. Just that.
The piece was published without controversy - until several days later, when a radio presenter referred to it as 'anti-Semitic'.
For some reason Phillipe Val and Charlie Hebdo did not consider 'freedom of the press' to have any bearing on THAT particular matter. Val even commented on the 'offense' it caused to France's Jewish community
For some reason Mr Val and Charlie Hebdo had no problem causing offense to people of the Muslim religious persuasion but appears very very reluctant to cause any sort offense to people of Jewish religious persuasion
Personally I believe that the press has the right to cause 'offense' to people of any religious persuasion, but when I see that they are very willing to offend Muslims but very very un-willing to offend other religions then I begin to suspect that "freedom of the Press" means nothing to these people, that it is merely a convenient cover to disguise their co-ordinated Hate-mongering campaign against a minority-grouping.
Basically the French, and the poster at 23 especially, are full of Sh*t with their claims of freedom of the press and free speech
BBC: - Friday, 11 March, 2005, 01:39 GMT -
French court bans Christ advert
France's Catholic Church has won a court injunction to ban a clothing advertisement based on Leonardo da Vinci's Christ's Last Supper.The display was ruled "a gratuitous and aggressive act of intrusion on people's innermost beliefs", by a judge.
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 10 2015 20:49 utc | 28
Posted by: aliena | Jan 10, 2015 3:28:11 PM | 23
I doubt Charlie Hebdo is that much of a French institution with 30.000 copies sold and fighting to survive financially - before the attack.
But it is a globalized world, you cannot prevent people you look at and laugh at to look back at you.
This here is a very nuanced Chinese take
“We notice that many Western leaders and mainstream media outlets highlighted their support for press freedom when commenting on the incident. This remains open to question. Press freedom lies as part of the West’s political and social systems and is a core value. But in these globalized times, when their acts contradict with the core values of other societies, the West should have the awareness to ease conflicts, instead of heightening them in accordance with its own values in a zero-sum manner,” said the mouthpiece of the ruling Communist party.“As the West holds absolute dominance in global opinion, non-Western societies can scarcely get their disagreements heard by the world. The West has to consciously control its use of “soft power” that can verbally abuse those it doesn’t favor,” it added.
Remember that they get nil sympathy from western media for what is going on in Xinjiang.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 10 2015 20:49 utc | 29
add to 27 - this here is German satire magazine Titanic's take - they print 99760 copies and own a party in the European parliament.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 10 2015 20:55 utc | 30
Can't help wonder whether the usual stealth overflight and tribute to the "troops" will be replaced with a tribute to Charlie Hebdo during today's NFL Playoffs.....
Posted by: georgeg | Jan 10 2015 21:05 utc | 31
Freedom and laughter are precious indeed, but isn’t it the French ‘socialist’ government that has been harassing and banning the best and most successful comedian in France, Dieudonné M’bala M’bala, because he satirized the Holocaust religion?
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/01/09/392328/Another-falseflag-operation
Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 10 2015 21:13 utc | 32
@ somebody
French anti-clericalism and obscenity goes back a long way, at least to Francois Rabelais, who published Gargantua & Pantagruel around the mid 1500s. Charlie Hebdo is the descendant of this tradition. They refused to publish ads and they struggled, just like others journals with higher printing and ads revenues.
On the Chinese take: Chinese society is so well known for its open mind and freedom that it is not much more than toilet paper. You get the idea?
Gargantua and Pantagruel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargantua_and_Pantagruel
Posted by: aliena | Jan 10 2015 21:15 utc | 33
Gerry at 6 -- Red Brigades got Aldo Moro. I don't know if your Gladio analogy fits, so I don't share colinjas. enthusiasm. I don't recall the bombers being caught on site, but some time later. And the revelations about the "Propaganda Due" (aka P2) group that organized them destroyed the Christian Democrats, if memory serves. That and there blatant corruption. Can't see Surete General making that kind of mistake.
While not citing them by name, Hezbollah leadership has said jihadis who kill cartoonists are doing far more harm than the cartoons to Islam. See the Huffington Post, if you need to. William of Occam would suggest some sort of byzantine plot is unlikely.
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 10 2015 21:20 utc | 34
Aliena literally all of CH's 'international' cartoons toe the rightwing and/or neoliberal line. Whether or not we can agree on what that means. But yeah. Anti-Putin? Check. Pro-FEMEN/etc? Check. Anti-Palestine? Check. Anti-'Iran' Check. Pro-regime change/chaos for every 'enemy' of the west? CHECK. That you think that they're 'anarchists' or 'leftists' is precious.
The domestic partisan political value of Charlie Hebdo is pretty much irrelevant to the the topic at hand, tbh. Their clicks were/are generated by their dumbass Fox News mouthbreather cartoons.
Posted by: L Bean | Jan 10 2015 21:23 utc | 35
William of Ockam would suggest no such thing
Careful with that razor in case you cut yourself with it,
There's a good boy
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 10 2015 21:25 utc | 36
Tens of thousands of people demonstrated in France in support of Charlie but none were seen to protest French bombing and killing Muslims in the ME, hypocrisy!
Posted by: Wayoutwest | Jan 10 2015 21:30 utc | 37
Hey everybody, I put some great Holocaust cartoons in my latest blog post if you want to get a good laugh. What is life without a good laugh every now and then? Come on over and fill your bellies with specially-crafted platinum mirth.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 10 2015 21:40 utc | 38
And who decides what is 'offensive' or 'sows discontent'? And once you've set that precedent, how long before inconvenient voices, like your own, are shut down?
Posted by: Saghei | Jan 10 2015 21:49 utc | 39
Posted by: aliena | Jan 10, 2015 4:15:45 PM | 33
That is the point - they have different values. And Posted by: Saghei | Jan 10, 2015 4:49:07 PM | 39 who decides whose values are best? And when people decide their values are best, do they have the right to dehumanize and kill people with "lesser" values?
Where is the outcry about Abu Ghreib? The protest march by enlightened and free Europeans united with their leaders under the Tour Eiffel?
Posted by: somebody | Jan 10 2015 22:09 utc | 40
The most ridiculous of all is the " I am Charlie" campaign.
When will there be a huge projection on the Arc de Triomphe of the "pearls" of the magazine cartoons.
The Prophet Mohammed cartoon projected on the Louvres Museum and the National Assembly building is the right way to "Be Charlie"
Posted by: Virgile | Jan 10 2015 22:17 utc | 41
Virgile
Yeah, I bet soon we will see obama walking with Bernard Henry Levy in Paris with the same signs marching in Paris, along with Netanyahu cheered by millions of "i am charlie" sheep. Pathetic!
Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 10 2015 22:24 utc | 42
Saghei | 39
"And who decides what is 'offensive' or 'sows discontent'?
And once you've set that precedent, how long before inconvenient
voices, like your own, are shut down?"
Finally a voice for sanity amidst the inane comments tothis thread!
You have hit the Bullseye, mr.Saghei.
Who decides? What are the parameters? Why?
The fact of the matter is that all of the censorship today in the West
is obviously ennacted into laws and the like by that very small but
extremely powerful hostile elite. They decide what is off limits.
When fully understood, B's comment borders on the pathetic.
The sad reality is that B, MOA's owner, does NOT believe in free speech.
It's that simple.
Maybe someday, even though he is pretty PC about many topics,
they'll come for him... then lets see how he likes it.
PS: Just to be clear: If said speech truly constitutes incitement towards
violent acts, whatever they may be, then there should be limits.
Let me give all a CLEAR EXAMPLE of what such may be;
A Wahabi cleric, living, say, in France, makes constant statements
that French women, given their behavior, clothing,etc, should be
fair game for rape. That would constitute incitement for the more
extreme elements in the muslim community to carry out crimes.
On the other hand, if the same cleric decides to write on why he
thinks that certain behavior in the West, amounts to degenaracy,
he should be free to do so. It could even be helpful, wink.
Posted by: Luca K | Jan 10 2015 22:27 utc | 43
@33
I'm really getting tired of all the deflection. I am well aware of the Wests many crimes. But that isn't the central point here. No one, anywhere, should be being killed, and just because more people die in places like Yemen and Iraq doesn't change the fact that a dozen (more, now) innocents are dead.
Posted by: Saghei | Jan 10 2015 22:37 utc | 44
Ditto [email protected] and [email protected]
@44.....some things are apparently more newsworthy and generate rallies in the streets and stupid ....I am Charlie....campaigns
Posted by: ..james | Jan 11 2015 0:28 utc | 46
Try searching for "french atrocities in algeria" or Indochina or .... (and to this we could suffix 'Dutch'; "British"; "American"; "Spanish"; ... -- basically "European").
Compare this image (as one example) of Frenchmen holding decapitated heads with what we see from msm of the ISIS terrorists recently.
https://3ddemocracy.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/french-algeria.jpg
The difference? Color of the skin.
Then we have the French postage stamp from 1922, showing Muslims beheaded in Morocco.
http://inagist.com/all/553955124641800192/
If all Moslems (or the culture/religion) are responsible a few radicalized extremist interpretations and actions then all French (and the french culture and 'religion' are equally responsible (and accountable) for the blow back from these barbaric acts of colonial tyranny.
And NATO's little 'adventure' into Libya recently shows this is not a thing of the past.
Are all French to be seen as such? No, of course not, and so neither are all Moslems.
It is a 'science' the French brag about and practice, it seems, even unto today.
From wikipedia:
Torture was a procedure in use since the beginning of the colonization of Algeria, which was initiated by the July Monarchy in 1830. Directed by Marshall Bugeaud, who became the first Governor-General of Algeria, the conquest of Algeria was marked by the "scorched earth" policy and the use of torture, which were legitimized by a racist ideology. In 1841, the liberal thinker and deputy Alexis de Tocqueville could declare:
"war in Africa is a science. Everyone is familiar with its rules and everyone can apply those rules with almost complete certainty of success. One of the greatest services that Field Marshal Bugeaud has rendered his country is to have spread, perfected and made everyone aware of this new science... As far as I am concerned, I came back from Africa with the pathetic notion that at present in our way of waging war we are far more barbaric than the Arabs themselves. These days, they represent civilization, we do not. This way of waging war seems to me as stupid as it is cruel. It can only be found in the head of a coarse and brutal soldier. Indeed, it was pointless to replace the Turks only to reproduce what the world rightly found so hateful in them. This, even for the sake of interest, is more noxious than useful; for, as another officer was telling me, if our sole aim is to equal the Turks, in fact we shall be in a far lower position than theirs: barbarians for barbarians, the Turks will always outdo us because they are Muslim barbarians. In France, I have often heard men I respect, but do not approve of, deplore that crops should be burnt and granaries emptied and finally that unarmed men, women and children should be seized. In my view these are unfortunate circumstances that any people wishing to wage war against the Arabs must accept. I think that all the means available to wreck tribes must be used, barring those that the human kind and the right of nations condemn. I personally believe that the laws of war enable us to ravage the country and that we must do so either by destroying the crops at harvest time or any time by making fast forays also known as raids the aim of which it to get hold of men or flocks."
"Whatever the case", continued Tocqueville, "we may say in a general manner that all political freedoms must be suspended in Algeria."[10] Historian Olivier Le Cour Grandmaison thus wrote that "From the years 1840 to the 1962 independence, the physical body of the "Arab" has therefore been used as a terror instrument on which the colonial power has never ceased in graving the marks of its almighty power. Torture in Algeria and in the French Empire: an exception limited to wars of national liberation conducted against the metropole? No, the rule."
(end quote)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_during_the_Algerian_War
Posted by: x | Jan 11 2015 0:33 utc | 47
Thanks for the link and this quote, somebody #29:
“As the West holds absolute dominance in global opinion, non-Western societies can scarcely get their disagreements heard by the world. The West has to consciously control its use of “soft power” that can verbally abuse those it doesn’t favor,” it added.
One thing we're all missing, including the powers that be in Beijing, is that what we need is a democratic and free press. A capitalist and free media produces what we have in the West, a slavish support for the PTB because in part they are the PTB and in part being favored by the PTB is a sure path to maximum profits. And at their geriatric capitalist stage, the powers that be in the West are on a permanent militarist and corporate globalization path.
In any case, it is a seriously foolish path to be defending censorship on such utterly impossible to define grounds as anti-Islam or anti-Semitism. This already leads straight to not being allowed to criticize Israel, and we know that. Next we won't be allowed to criticize Saudi Arabia? A guy in Jeddah a couple days ago started his course of being lashed 50 times a week for the next 20 weeks, his crime the ostensibly religious 'insult to Islam' violation. The insanely reactionary and misogynist Wahabbism is undeniably a religion so we'd be wise not to criticize those lashings.
You can't have any one of the following without the other two: freedom, democracy and socialism. This applies to the mass media too, of course. We have to democratize it or capitalist reaction -- our pettiness, selfishness, in general the worst of ourselves -- will continue to crowd out and repress what most people really want to read, watch, hear and think.
@Anonymous #45:
Poroshenko, who is commanding the genocide of Donbass and is perhaps complicit in the downing MH17, and so is an immeasurably greater terrorist than the CH attackers, will take part in tomorrow's CH march. But Marine Le Pen has not been invited.
Posted by: Saghei | Jan 10, 2015 4:49:07 PM | 39
Posted by: Luca K | Jan 10, 2015 5:27:00 PM | 43
Yeah, good comment by Saghei and clarification of what can be clearly and rightfully defined as 'out of bounds' speech. Inciting violent crime, when it in fact leads to such crimes, should be illegal. On the other hand, even there we need to be _very_ careful not to expand what we mean by 'violence' into acts -- like blocking a highway or train tracks -- that non-violent protesters carry out against the state. Yeah, sounds crazy to redefine non-violence as 'violence' but remember the courts are all appointed by the enemies of real democracy and the 'wrong' kinds of protests.
Is anyone suggesting censorship? Other than the habitually-censorious, neo-con Israeli supporters of campus watch, etc.? The problem is not that Charlie could spew its swill, the problem is that its now being defended, and an attempt to make it mandatory to embrace and repeat it is already in place ... see Glen Greenwald ...
Vox’s Matt Yglesias ... concluded that “to blaspheme the Prophet transforms the publication of these cartoons from a pointless act to a courageous and even necessary one, while the observation that the world would do well without such provocations becomes a form of appeasement.”
Posted by: jfl | Jan 11 2015 1:01 utc | 51
Female Suspect in France Shooting Flees to Syria through Turkey
Three days of violence shook Paris this week when three gunmen entered the office of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo and killed 12 people Wednesday, while dual sieges Friday, at a print shop and kosher supermarket, ended with four hostages killed. The three hostage-takers were also killed by police when they stormed the hostage sites.Police are now seeking the whereabouts of Boumeddiene, the partner of the Jewish supermarket attacker, listing her as a suspect in the strike and an earlier killing of a policewoman Thursday.
According to a police source, the woman crossed the border into Spain and flew to Turkey via Madrid, while authorities in Istanbul reported seeing a woman matching her description cross the border into Syria Thursday. However, there have also been alleged sightings of the woman in Paris.
"All our services are focused on looking for this person," French national police chief Jean-Marc Falcone told BFM-TV television. "We call on her to put herself in the hands of justice."
Three down, one to go? The woman who knows too much? If that is the case her only chance is to spill the beans, along with her fears of being murdered by the police, before the event.
Posted by: jfl | Jan 11 2015 1:17 utc | 52
@51
It wasn't a 'provocation'. They had the right to print what they did. Don't like it? Don't read it. And in light of the fact that the newspaper was apparently losing circulation, these shooters had to go out of their way to obtain it just so they could be 'offended'. Claiming offense isn't even a statement, it's a whine. Oh, I'm sorry, were your feelings hurt? Fuck off. Go sit in a corner and sob about how insulted you are. I see offensive shit every damn day, I've learned to ignore most of it, and certainly never consider violence as a response to things I don't ignore. Your beliefs are not sacred, and do not entitle you to special victim status. If you don't like that, than leave, find another country to live in.
The Je Suis campaign is steeped in hypocrisy, no doubt (whither Je Suis Yemen?), but given how it's exploded and the number of people re-tweeting it I see no reason to think it isn't genuine. They're not defending what the newspaper printed, merely its right to print it. No one should have to live in a world where they're afraid to voice an opinion because they're scared of being murdered. And apparently thinking that makes me a Nazi, go figure.
Also in choosing to respond by gunning down an office full of civilians the shooters have thoroughly vindicated every attack the newspaper ever launched on extremist Islam.
Posted by: Saghei | Jan 11 2015 2:09 utc | 54
@Rogan Josh: Please be careful to avoid slipping into paranoid schizophrenia. Assuming that people who do not fully agree with with you (not even people who disagree with you) are sock-puppets or "deliberately obfuscating" events, is a worrying sign.
You seem to believe with complete conviction that the policeman's killing was in fact staged. That it was set up to be captured on film by the attackers (who were then surely not the alleged perpetrators), the police man (and at least his family), the first responders and the medical officials investigating it, and the photographer. Thats a lot of moving parts in order to catch a few seconds of anti-Islamic propaganda that would have been made more effective simply by adding a blood pack (a staged shooting could easily have been made look less fake). As for your supposed 'fact' that he was clearly shot in the head, maybe you also need glasses in addition to other medication. Look at the video again, the gun is very clearly not pointing at his head. It also does not align with the puff of smoke but is roughly perpendicular to it, i.e. what might happen if a round (not a casing) passing through someones shoulder area was deflected (by bone or worn equipment) and exited at a sharp angle, then striking the pavement obliquely to kick up cement dust.
Note I did not say this was the only possible explanation, just what seems to me the most rational (it certainly doesn't preclude the whole incident having been instigated in the same manner the FBI has helped produce numerous US domestic terrorism cases). Unlike you, it seems so far, I am open-minded and thus able to change my stance quite easily. Your irresolute position on such things is a weakness when it comes to critical analysis that I suggest you should try to overcome. Far easier, however, to simply dismiss me as a deliberate fabrication. As Marsellus Wallace reminds us "That's pride fucking with you."
Posted by: Bran | Jan 11 2015 2:49 utc | 55
54
You'd fit right in with Breitbart's 'press freedom', to daily post, 'Lynch the O'Nigger!', and your defense of #JeSuisCharlie (Charlie is slang for 'The Enemy' by the way) shows you have no appreciation or perspective for the cartoonists' art or political satirists' craft. Nowhere but against Islam is the cartoonists' art perverted, the satirists' craft twisted.
Blackface!! I want to see blackface parodies!! Singing, dancing, Ayatollahs in black face!
You either get it, or you don't.
CH et al got exactly what they wanted, by using the most despicable and craven means: Fame!
"Fame! I'm gonna live forever, ...but no one will remember my name. Fame!" His family name, and the names and lives of the others, are already disappearing down the i-Net memory hole.
What remains is this rapidly-metastasizing Dark Swastika Event. We will all suffer for it.
And as always among ZioFascists, there will be Collaborators and Apologists and SpinDoctors.
#NousSommesTousCriminelsDeGuerre
Posted by: ChipNikh | Jan 11 2015 2:58 utc | 56
I believe that you are confused!!!!
One the one hand, free speech has some clear limits. Nowhere is allowed to aggrieve a person or lie about someone. There are sharp laws about that matter everywhere.
Take a try and scream "fire" in a theater, you'll be arrested for endangering the rest of the people.
On the other hand, fiction and arts in general and humor, specifically, and religions, can't be treated like non fiction, otherwise they would simply not exist.
Should the jokes about Obama, or any other president, be censored for not being true?
Do religions have to be abolish unless they prove the existence of their gods?
Pornography harts many minds, let's outlaw it.
This case isn't related to free speech, nobody forced you to read Charlie hebdo. What we have here is a case of intolerance, because as in this case muslims felt outrage against Charlie Hebdo for their publications, i feel outrage for many think that the koran says. The difference is that my ideas don't push me to kill somebody to defend them.
Aupa Naparra ta lege zaharrak.
Posted by: Free Basque Country | Jan 11 2015 3:09 utc | 57
@56
Yeah, I think I'm done here. You are an incredibly sick person, both morally and mentally. Yes, I'm sure the 'ZioFascists' engineered the evolution of modern French and the name of the newspaper so that 'I Am Charlie' could be rearranged into 'Jesus is Enemy', in a completely different language and utilizing an archaic Vietnam War slang term. That's totally a rational and not utterly insane, contrived theory. Yep.
And you're obviously not alone in your madness, I'm essentially arguing with a series of brick walls here. For the record Charlie Hebdo made fun of a wide variety of people, only the Islamic extremists decided violence was an appropriate response. Oh, and yes, Breitbart does and should have the freedom to post their filth. Freedom of speech applies to everyone, or it might as well apply to no one. You suppress them and soon enough you'll be the one suppressed.
Posted by: Saghei | Jan 11 2015 3:56 utc | 58
They were underclass French boys, but they were clearly following orders from somebody, we will never know from whom. There are wheels within wheels.
Posted by: Harold | Jan 11 2015 4:13 utc | 59
@Harold #59:
they were clearly following orders from somebodyHopefully we can all agree about that. Both someone from AQAP, which publishes Inspire, and someone from ISIS have taken credit for the attack. Since the two groups don't like each other, it is unlikely that they would have collaborated on this attack, so at least one of those two must be lying.
For what it's worth, there is little talk in the Russian blogosphere about this being a false flag. That is probably because Russians had plenty experience with Salafi terrorism in Chechnya.
Finally, unfortunately I need to point out, even here, that the term "Islamic extremists" is islamophobic and that its employment is a sure sign of bigotry. Calling Muslim terrorists "Islamic extremists" makes as much sense as calling Americans who bomb abortion clinics and murder doctors who help women terminate their pregnancies "Christian extremists". And I don't even take the politically correct multicultural line that Christianity and Islam are equally "peaceful" religions.
in re 36 --
I'll let you know if I need any assinine comments. I'm good for now.
I assume you have other opinions that are not pissing and moaning, but the evidence is a little short.
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 11 2015 5:16 utc | 61
Julian Assange believes there is something suspicious in the failure of French security to head off the Hebdo killings.
Link at teleSur
Comment:
Working Class Nero
January 9, 2015 at 7:17 am
You have to see the ISIS as just a chess piece created by the US Empire to counter Hezbollah and drive the Iranians to the negotiating table. There will very likely soon be a deal between the US and Iran which will put an end to much of the conflict in the Middle East. The deal will roughly be that Iran and Syria kiss the US ring, accept US hegemony, and Assad gets to keep power. Iranian support of Hezbollah has to be stopped, and in return US/Saudi support for the ISIS will dissipate. These military organizations will be transferred to political groupings in a similar was the IRA (for the most part) melted into Sinn Fein. This will take some time though.
In any terrorist organization there will always be a few true believers who slip out of the puppet master’s control so shutting down the ISIS will not be as simple as switching off a light. Al Qaida’s job was to help justify a US ME presence that took secular, nationalist, and socialist Arab states and turned them into Islamic Republics. ISIS is there to help flip Iran/Syria into the pro-US column
After the Iran deal, if required, some elements of “ISIS” will be redeployed to the Caucuses to help open a southern front against Putin who is already struggling with his western front in Ukraine.
Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 11 2015 6:28 utc | 63
So glad there's still people here I want to read. Thank you, Noirette, Copeland, Juannie and okie farmer. Oh, and most the old crew. Moonbats, as it were...
Addendum:miss beq, and annie and debs..
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 11 2015 7:22 utc | 64
58 Seig hi
700,000 marchers is 1% of the French population. You and yours are a most distinct MINORITY.
You and your 1% glibly and willfully sent 100,000s of armed and brainwashed thugs into MENA and CAsia for over a DECADE to slaughter, bmob and burn to death with white phosphorus MILLIONS of innocent Muslims who had absolutely NOTHING to do with WTC 911, or any of the other false-flag events in EU. For over a DECADE~! Where was your 'Free Speech' then?
An Afghan leader said to BBC, 'You have destroyed my country, you have burned my home, my lands, you have shattered my livelihood, taken my family from me, and defamed my dignity. Please, please tell me what it is that you WANT!"
And now you are oh, all UPSET, that a virulently racist news editor gets killed, along with all his staff, for DELIBERATELY provoking a violent outcry through those VICIOUS cartoons.
Then you hide behind 'Free Speech', like Corporate 'Free Speech' of Citizens United PACs and Breitbart, vile speech as divisive, vindictive, deliberately EVIL racist propaganda, the Big Lie that has brought their new RINO-RINO Congress of 1000 Years to power.
You remind me of the 60s hippies, dazed, confused, weakly signing 'V' and 'Free Love, Man'.
With #JeSuisCharlie, the Global ZioFascist Movement has, in this one Dark Swastika Event, achieved Goebbels ultimate propaganda goal: convincing the People that the VICTIMS, the FREEDOM FIGHTERS, are the Fascists! Wow! War is Peace. Black is White. Freedom is Slavery. But as long as you believe 2+2=5, then you're free to spew whatever vicious Five Minutes of H8-Speak you wish. Go ahead, give it your best shot.
Posted by: ChipNikh | Jan 11 2015 8:42 utc | 65
Posted by: Luca K | Jan 10, 2015 5:27:00 PM | 43
Censorship is rarely done by law mostly by society. As there is not "one" society but groups with different power, censorship is done in groups. The preacher in your example tries to censor women's dress style and behaviour.
It is very unlikely he will call for rape. However it it very likely that he will express the feeling that if something happens to a women with the wrong type of behavior and dress she had it coming.
Charlie hebdo tries to censor religious feelings and political correctness by ridiculing it.
Both create "the other". If we are all "Charlie Hebdo" now, we walk the first step into the "clash of civilisation".
Mosques have been attacked all over France. Synagogues have closed. People are afraid to walk on the streets. Great job, Charlie Hebdo.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 11 2015 8:53 utc | 66
Posted by: Gerry1211 | Jan 10, 2015 12:24:25 PM | 6
If this has a secret service connection, the French secret service must be part of it.
Radicalized in prison - check
On watch lists i.e. talking to the law regularily - check
Somehow slipped off the radar, despite warnings by other secret services - check
Could move beyond their means - check
Could acquire professional weapons - check
Deed professionally planned and executed but not the escape - check
Connection to organized crime - ?
Connection to Syria -?
Is it true that the Mossad has been recruiting Algerians to fight in Syria?
Cui bono? Anybody who wants to start a new "war on terror", "clash of civilization", reinvade the Middle East. And Marine Le Pen.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 11 2015 9:19 utc | 67
@59 Harold quote......"there are wheels within wheels".... Indeed! Try telling that to those who have the answers and know exactly who the bad guys are while never straying from the msm punch line, or punch bowl as the case may be......
I'm with chipnikh. Saghei has drank too much from the punch bowl
Posted by: ..james | Jan 11 2015 9:19 utc | 68
@62
Thanks. It's a short and rewarding read. Assange covers both the complicit and incompetent angles, finds they both fit. Throws in the 'might not be incompetent but were diverted from targeted surveillance by the the sweep it all dragnet M.O. that swamps the ... purely theoretical ... police professionals with the blackmail fodder being amassed by the Totalitarian 'democracies' of the west' angle, for free.
I now it's been linked to before, but the Charlie massacre is reminiscent of the CIA's boys' massacre at the Boston Marathon ... Charlie Hebdo and Tsarnaev’s Trial: Cui bono?. PCR throws in the history of US/NATO 'strategy of tension' - kill your own civilians and blame it on the 'bad' guys - for free.
Posted by: jfl | Jan 11 2015 10:24 utc | 69
Patrick Martin at wsws.org comes down on the complicity angle .,..
French paramilitary police gun down three Islamist gunmen
The Paris events thus conform to the larger pattern of the “war on terror.” Nearly all of those involved in or linked to terrorist attacks in the major imperialist countries—the 9/11 attacks, the London subway and Madrid train station bombings, and now Paris—turn out to have frequent, unexplained and dubious relations with the security services of these countries.These atrocious attacks have gone forward, if not with the active instigation and control, certainly with the passive complicity, of the very same agencies that then cite the threat of terrorism as the reason for scrapping democratic rights, massively increasing security budgets, and arrogating vast and unchallengeable powers to the military-intelligence apparatus.
His take boils down to what James Risen said to Glenn Greenwald, Talking to James Risen About Pay Any Price, the War on Terror and Press Freedoms
Yours is really one of the first that has focused on a particular part of the War on Terror, namely the way in which economic motives, what you call the Homeland Security Industrial Complex, has driven a huge part of the war, and there’s a lot of new reporting about how that functions.That was one of the key objectives of writing the book, and I think it plays a really central role in why the war is continuing. I think it’s basically that after so many years there’s a whole class of people that have developed. A post-9/11 mercenary class that’s developed that have invested in their own lives an incentive to keep the war going.
The angle is that it's really just garden variety corruption, albeit on steroids. That the phenomenal amounts of money involved have created a class of political cyborgs. with their figurative bioelectronic parts being somewhere behind the eyes - where the 'mind/soul' is traditionally located in human beings.
And the reach of that ... Yugoslavia, Manhattan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Boston, Syria, Ukraine, Paris ... the terrorist/counterterrorist symbiosis for mutual gain ... is much more terrifying than anything than mere terrorist groups could ever come up with on their own.
Posted by: jfl | Jan 11 2015 10:55 utc | 70
Posted by: jfl | Jan 11, 2015 5:55:49 AM | 70
yep.
This article generally is rubbish but mentions an interesting aspect
My friend and comrade Maajid Nawaz was a jihadi before he converted to liberalism and understands the totalitarian mind. He says that people still do not realise that radical Islamists do not just want to impose their taboos at gunpoint. They want to “create a civil war” so that European Muslims accept that they can only live in the caliphate; to encourage the rise of the white far-right so that ordinary coexistence becomes impossible.
It is a co-dependency. The national security state needs the threat and the fear, same as fundamentalists need the prejudice, the bullying, mockerie and attacks. So yes, of course security services cultivate these people.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 11 2015 11:10 utc | 71
61
Pls dont bother, so far the majority of what you have posted over the last few days is all about you
The narcissism is nauseating.
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11 2015 12:02 utc | 72
Will France intervene in Libya ? - al Akhbar
Sources told Al-Akhbar that UK and US diplomats have sent explicit messages to the two sides, the gist being more or less that he who controls the oil wells and export terminals will receive international cover to rule Libya.
And from January 5
President Francois Hollande said Monday that France would not intervene unilaterally in Libya and urged the international community to take action to stem the deepening crisis in the country.“We are acting to contain terrorism in the south, but France will not intervene in Libya because it’s for the international community to live up to its responsibilities,” Hollande told French radio.
Asked if France would take action in a United Nations-mandated operation, Hollande said there would have to be a “clear mandate”, “clear organisation” and the “political conditions” would have to be in place.
“We’re not yet going down that road,” added Hollande.
The president of neighbouring Niger said on Friday that a solution to the crisis in Libya was not possible without international intervention.
“I do not see how the armed terrorist militias can create the conditions for reconciliation among Libyans,” said President Mahamadou Issoufou.
“An international intervention is essential to the reconciliation of all Libyans,” including supporters of former dictator Moamer Khadafi, who himself was deposed and killed in 2011 after an international military intervention.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 11 2015 12:11 utc | 73
71
Somebody, after years of posting obvious lies about this subject, finally admits that these jihadi groups are a western SS creation?
That is 180 degrees from what you have been claiming for the last several years
So i spose i should welcome you over from the side of the morons and liars, but tbh your conversion probably wont last long, and knowing you is probably just so's you can sell us a bucket of lies at some later date
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11 2015 12:14 utc | 74
Don't worry Rogan Josh, there's more than one Social-laboratory...
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 11 2015 12:58 utc | 75
the attackers were young guys with lots of problematic family background, well grounded in the french 1/3 world, who went brainwashed in jail, where a mentor spotted them
they had enough connections with syria and iraq to have a little more than what you consider very little to do with al qaeda
anyone can claim to act for AQ or IS,as we all know; just as anonymous, it is what makes it strength
and now we see davutoglu and the israelis demonstrating in paris for "freedom of speech"... full recuperation orchestrated by our socialist governement
most of the people demonstrating have no idea of the drawings charlie published, but they knew the big names such as cabu and wolinski
Posted by: Mina | Jan 11 2015 13:14 utc | 76
The French -
https://twitter.com/nathanlean/status/553955124641800192
Nathan Lean @nathanlean - Here is a French postage stamp from 1922, showing Muslims beheaded in Morocco:
https://twitter.com/nathanlean/status/553955124641800192/photo/1
Nathan Lean @nathanlean - French soldiers (the white guys) in colonial Algeria pose with their prized catches: (Severed heads of Muslim Men)
The French.
They only stopped doing that sort of stuff an mere few decades ago, apparently they are much much more civilised now
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11 2015 13:15 utc | 77
If this has a secret service connection, the French secret service must be part of it.
Radicalized in prison - check
On watch lists i.e. talking to the law regularily - check
Somehow slipped off the radar, despite warnings by other secret services - check
Could move beyond their means - check
Could acquire professional weapons - check
Deed professionally planned and executed but not the escape - check
Connection to organized crime - ?
Connection to Syria -?
Is it true that the Mossad has been recruiting Algerians to fight in Syria?
Cui bono? Anybody who wants to start a new "war on terror", "clash of civilization", reinvade the Middle East. And Marine Le Pen.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 11, 2015 4:19:50 AM | 67
Here's a brief press piece on the "death by suicide" of a Limoges Police Chief tasked with investigating this Flase Flag event
http://www.medhajnews.com/article.php?id=NTM0MA==
Just over a year after Helric Fredoun discovered the lifeless body of the third ranking police officer SRPJ of Limoges, the second ranking service officer has committed suicide yesterday at his workplace with his service weapon.We learned this morning, a Commissioner Helric Fredoun SRPJ Limoges has committed suicide last night in his office with his service weapon .
Information confirmed by his superiors. It is unknown at this time the reasons for his actions. He would have killed himself that night or in the early hours of the morning.
The Commissioner Helric Fredou aged 45 years was from Limoges began his career in 1997 as a police officer at the regional office the judicial police of Versailles, before returning to Limoges. He was deputy director of the regional police service since 2012. His father was a former police officer, his mother was a nurse in the emergency context CHU Limoges. He was single and had no children.
According to the police union, Commissioner was depressed and experiencing burnout.
In November 2013, the Commissioner Fredou had discovered the lifeless body of his colleague, the 3rd ranking police officer of SRPJ Limoges, who had also committed suicide with his service weapon in his office. He was also 44 years old.
The Commissioner Fredou, like all agents SRPJ worked yesterday on the case of the massacre at the headquarters of Charlie Hebdo .
In particular, he surveyed the family of one of the victims.
He killed himself before completing its report.
So far the only English-language media that even mentions this "suicide" of a Top French Cop is Sputnik, an English-language Russian Media Channel
So far NO (ZERO) Anglo/US media have covered this -
https://www.google.com/search?q=Helric+Fredou
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11 2015 13:40 utc | 78
(Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama will invite allies to a Feb 18 security summit in Washington, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder announced on Sunday after meeting his European counterparts in Paris."We will bring together all of our allies to discuss ways in which we can counteract this violent extremism that exists around the world," Holder told reporters.
The Paris meeting of justice and interior chiefs came as France mourned 17 victims of Islamist gunmen this week in the worst assault on its homeland security in decades.
War on Terror II.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 11 2015 13:45 utc | 79
Watch out Paris!!!
Blood-thirsty Vampires on their way . . .
Netanyahu, Liberman, Bennett all headed to Paris for solidarity rally
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11 2015 13:47 utc | 80
https://twitter.com/nathanlean/status/553990506611752961
Nathan Lean @nathanlean - The Paris Museum of Natural History offers an exhibit of some 18,000 heads of Africans killed by colonial soldiers.
Don't worry though - apparently the French are much much more civilised now, or so I'm told
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11 2015 13:58 utc | 81
https://twitter.com/nathanlean/status/554052185538166786/photo/1
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11 2015 14:00 utc | 82
by: x | Jan 10, 2015 7:33:19 PM | 47
“...the Turks will always outdo us because they are Muslim barbarians.”
I'm always glad to read something like this - something what's like an eternal truth.
Celebrated liberal writer showed once again what is deep under their skin. What's intuitively everybody knows and but it was politically incorrect to say. The hate is value of Christian so-called civilization, and the norm. To be hated by Westerners the Colored and Muslim has nothing to do they are hated/despised/disdained by default. The Germans are somewhat honest and officially ended multiculturalism (helped by Theo Sarazin) by nuclear physicist Frau Merkel to go back square one - to Untermensch. Or, as Hitler's admirer Churchill translated as "Subhumans".
It is interesting show, these months, by Russia and Western Christian “culture” that's going on in Ukraine. Both are deeply racists and pervasively hate everybody else, imposing own “culture” is probably the greatest victory of all.
There is documentary “Drowning by Bullets” about pogrom of Algerians in the City of Light 1961, http://www.icarusfilms.com/new2003/dro.html. Police chief in France was ex Nazi collaborator, just as remainder today's Germany (US client state) is build by ex Nazis employed by US occupational administration. Twelve years before the Luftwaffe destroyed Guernica, French destroyed Damascus.
“She told me that the "messages" of her films were dependent not on "orders from above," but on the "submissive void" of the German public. Did that include the liberal, educated bourgeoisie? "Everyone," she said.”
http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-new-propaganda-is-liberal-the-new-slavery-is-digital
“Je Suis Charlie” is for morons who doesn't have ability to think of its own. I would say and I somewhat disagree with Pilger about propaganda. This is not propaganda this is an inner call, hate, racism of the White man, something what's part of its being. Their Milieu. Events like Charile helps to invoke their Groupthink and Hyena mentality.
Posted by: neretva43 | Jan 11 2015 14:11 utc | 83
by: x | Jan 10, 2015 7:33:19 PM | 47
“...the Turks will always outdo us because they are Muslim barbarians.”
I'm always glad to read something like this - something what's like an eternal truth.
Celebrated liberal writer showed once again what is deep under their skin. What's intuitively everybody knows and but it was politically incorrect to say. The hate is value of Christian so-called civilization, and the norm. To be hated by Westerners the Colored and Muslim has nothing to do they are hated/despised/disdained by default. The Germans are somewhat honest and officially ended multiculturalism (helped by Theo Sarazin) by nuclear physicist Frau Merkel to go back square one - to Untermensch. Or, as Hitler's admirer Churchill translated as "Subhumans".
It is interesting show, these months, by Russia and Western Christian “culture” that's going on in Ukraine. Both are deeply racists and pervasively hate everybody else, imposing own “culture” is probably the greatest victory of all.
There is documentary “Drowning by Bullets” about pogrom of Algerians in the City of Light 1961, http://www.icarusfilms.com/new2003/dro.html. Police chief in France was ex Nazi collaborator, just as remainder today's Germany (US client state) is build by ex Nazis employed by US occupational administration. Twelve years before the Luftwaffe destroyed Guernica, French destroyed Damascus.
“She told me that the "messages" of her films were dependent not on "orders from above," but on the "submissive void" of the German public. Did that include the liberal, educated bourgeoisie? "Everyone," she said.”
http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-new-propaganda-is-liberal-the-new-slavery-is-digital
“Je Suis Charlie” is for morons who doesn't have ability to think of its own. I would say and I somewhat disagree with Pilger about propaganda. This is not propaganda this is an inner call, hate, racism of the White man, something what's part of its being. Their Milieu. Events like Charile helps to invoke their Groupthink and Hyena mentality.
Posted by: neretva'43 | Jan 11 2015 14:12 utc | 84
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/01/07/252225/gunmen-in-paris-terror-attack.html
Other evidence suggests they could be linked to a top French al Qaida operative, David Drugeon, who’s been the target at least twice of U.S. airstrikes in Syria over the last four months.Witnesses inside the magazine’s offices told the French newspaper L’Humanité that both attackers spoke perfect French and claimed to be members of al Qaida.
Drugeon, who many experts believe
wasis a French intelligence assetbefore defecting towho posed as a member of the Western Security Service fake Jihadi grouping known as "al Qaida", is alleged to have masterminded a 2012 “lone wolf” attack on French soldiers and Jewish targets in the southern French city of Toulouse.That attack killed seven people before the perpetrator, a French citizen named Mohammed Merah, who French intelligence believes had been trained by Drugeon, was killed by a police sniper after a long, violent standoff with security forces.
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11 2015 14:24 utc | 85
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11, 2015 8:40:46 AM | 78
I'd be interested to read what Bran Muffin thinks about this. "It's a tough job. Police chiefs are under a lot of pressure. It's a miracle more don't commit suicide like this poor soul has done." Something like that, I'm betting, or perhaps he/she will say, "people commit suicide for many varied and complex reasons, and many times if not always the loved ones left behind never really know the full reason. We have no idea what was going on in this man's head and what was weighing on his psyche and really we never will know. We can only guess, and whatever conclusion we come to if we come to one at all is uninformed conjecture. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and shit just happens and this is more than likely another one of those times."
As for me, my family has a link to my blog and they've been told in no uncertain terms that if I commit suicide, I've been murdered and they have a duty and obligation to expose it via my blog. I have given them my solemn oath that I would never commit suicide, that I have never been suicidal and never will be, that I'm a fighter who loves life and will fight and love to the very end, whenever it will be, but it won't be by suicide.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 11 2015 14:32 utc | 86
The message still confused:
Le Monde: "contre le terrorisme"
Liberation: "pour Je suis Charlie"
Figaro: "marche republicaine"
France24: "national unity"
BFMTV: "Francois Hollande"
Midi Libre "marche citoyenne"
20minutes "personnes reunies" :-))
Let's see.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 11 2015 14:34 utc | 87
Is there only paper or plastic? I think so. The Hegelian Dialectic is predicated upon it, and it's in full swing everywhere you look — even here in this "enlightened" comment section (my PBA is off the charts after making that enlightened comment).
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 11 2015 14:38 utc | 88
@ 47
Don't forget:
The French govt waited until 2012 to accept their failures in the massacre of the 17 October 1961;
Ici on noie les Arabes on the St Michel Bridge. Dead bodies were found as far as Le Havre as the bodies ran down river from Paris to the ocean.
Posted by: Yul | Jan 11 2015 14:53 utc | 89
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 11, 2015 9:32:38 AM | 86
My guess is that like you, Bran Muffin will ignore the fact that, despite their recent seemingly non-stop love affair with all things French and especially all things Charlie related, No Anglo/US media has even bothered to report on this.
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11 2015 14:54 utc | 90
This is not propaganda this is an inner call, hate, racism of the White man, something what's part of its being.
Wow! Try convincing some White men that Michelle Obama is a White man — because that's what your statement implies. Do you think before you type? This is well beyond the "White" man at this point. Just as there are wheels within wheels, there are subcultures within subcultures. But that's messy, and who wants messy when you can delusionally have black and white? You, apparently.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 11 2015 15:00 utc | 91
Can't wait for the "Je Suis Azhar Ahmed" rallies
Muslim sentenced over Facebook soldier deaths comment
Azhar Ahmed Ahmed posted the message on Facebook just days after the soldiers' deathsA man who posted an offensive Facebook message following the deaths of six British soldiers has been given a community order.
Azhar Ahmed, 20, of Fir Avenue, Ravensthorpe, West Yorkshire, was found guilty in September of sending a grossly offensive communication.
He said he did not think the message, which said "all soldiers should die and go to hell", was offensive.
Ahmed was also fined £300 at Huddersfield Magistrates' Court.
He will have to do 240 hours of community service over a two-year period.
Ahmed was charged after the mother of one of the soldiers read the comments and was so upset she called the police.
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11 2015 15:02 utc | 92
1 million die in Iraq, oh no no protests 2 people kill 11 people, whole west weeps. That nice.
Something is not right in the west today.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 11 2015 15:09 utc | 93
@84
“Je Suis Charlie” is for morons who doesn't have ability to think of its own. I would say and I somewhat disagree with Pilger about propaganda. This is not propaganda this is an inner call, hate, racism of the White man...."
Je Suis Charlies is merely the deployment of class warfare and the 'whites' are as much a target as anyone else.
This is the elites employing divide to conquer via perception management they are very well versed in
@26
Jay Dyer is very interesting- I put an interview up he did (not with redice) because I found it so timely in relation to the JC archetypal manipulative campaign running in france
Plus- he mentioned the Parallax View during that interview
I watched it last night- very, very interesting- let's just say - very relevant to the patsy brother situation in France
SOMEBODY(66)
"Censorship is rarely done by law mostly by society.
As there is not "one" society but groups[...]"
Sorry buddy, this is total nonsense. As for groups, sure,
groups that are part of the elite though..
Posted by: Luca K | Jan 11 2015 16:01 utc | 97
Josh Rogaine at 72 --
Hey, it's not bother, it's a pleasure.
Talk about logorrhea, you're spitting out posts like it going out of style. Which would presume of course they were once in style.
Here's a little remedey for that illness you complained of, I hope you're feelin' alright. I'm actually feeling pretty good myself.
From the Monty Python's "Tale of the Piranaha Brothers," regarding the really vicious one, Doug. Dimsdale just nailed people's heads to the floor.
"Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug. He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 11 2015 16:18 utc | 98
Posted by: Rogan Josh | Jan 11, 2015 9:54:17 AM | 90
I bet the Russian media has though. They're so much more fair and balanced — that's why it's my go to source for objective and pertinent news and analysis. You used the word conversion in one of your recent posts, and not in a negative light. A dead giveaway, Rogan. Please be more careful next time. Conversion has no place in any of this, but leave it to the likes of zealots like you to impose that type of thinking on every one and thing you see and touch.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 11 2015 16:24 utc | 99
errata at 98 -- so sorry, Rogaine Josh, I meant no disrespect.
Posted by: rufus magister | Jan 11 2015 16:26 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Still, the question remains — why did these fringe dwellers choose Charlie Hebdo, considering? They could have walked into any old place and just shot it up. Why Hebdo and the Jewish market?
Bran gave a great explanation for the no blood head shot seen in the video on the other thread for those who haven't seen it. Still, leaving the passports/ids behind in the car is suspect, imo.
I agree there is no free speech, and most of those jumping on that bandwagon don't give a rat's ass about free speech anyway. How hypocritical of Hebdo to fire one of their own over anti-Semitism charges. Incredible. Or not.
I disagree with you about free speech. It must be absolute, but I will grant without a well-educated population that can think objectively and critically about matters, it can easily be used to insight rather than inform.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 10 2015 16:27 utc | 1