Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 08, 2014

WaPo Blames Syria But U.S. Iraq Invasion Created The Islamic State

One Missy Ryan at the Washington Post wants her readers to swallow this nonsense:

While the Obama administration is expanding its effort against the Islamic State, it has resisted calls from some of its Middle Eastern allies to more directly pressure Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, whose long civil conflict has created the conditions that gave birth to the Islamic State and other extremist groups.

The conflict in Syria, started by the U.S. and other international supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, had nothing to do with the "birth" of the "Islamic State and other extremist groups".

Academic accounts of the genesis of the Islamic State, Jabhad al-Nusra and others point to a much earlier creation of these groups:

A popular narrative holds that the surprising recent events in Iraq can be attributed mainly to the unraveling of Syria.
...
[This] is just part of a picture, one constructed by connecting the dots from events that we can observe, rather than from a careful analysis of the group known as the Islamic State. Consider another possibility: the Islamic State’s resurgence since 2010 in both Iraq and Syria is the result of a carefully crafted plan. The Islamic State counteroffensive in Iraq, conducted under the noses of a waning U.S. presence in the country, created conditions for the Islamic State to establish a new political coalition that remains intact to date. The high-level of military excellence achieved by the Islamic State in their campaign as much as any political factor, has influenced their return and creates a host of challenges for the military, intelligence, and diplomatic professionals tasked with their defeat.

The Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra were both part of AlQaida in Iraq (AQI). The were created in reaction to the U.S. invasion of Iraq. After having been temporarily defeated during the "surge" of U.S. troops AQI revived and fought an intense war against the Iraqi government. When the conflict in Syria started the war in iraq was again raging. A part of AQI transferred to Syria under the name of Jabhat al Nusra. It used the eastern part of Syria primarily as a retreat and training space. AQI split in two when the Iraqi part detached itself from AlQaida central in Pakistan as well as from Jabhat al-Nusra and transformed itself into the independent Islamic State.

The conflict in Iraq ignited by the United States is the creation point of these extremists group. The conflict in Syria allowed the growth of these groups into the geographically near eastern parts of Syria but the Syria conflict had no relation to those groups founding. Ahrar al-Shams and the Islamic Front, other extremist group in Syria, were also founded and led by senior AlQaeda members mostly from Iraq. Like the Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra these groups do not originate in the Syrian conflict but in a wider and older context.

The origin of these groups lies in the the U.S. war on Iraq. To accuse the Syrian government for their creation is propagandistic nonsense.

Posted by b on November 8, 2014 at 09:24 AM | Permalink

Comments
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I wrote an article about the origins of "The Caliphate" seen here.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8, 2014 9:30:31 AM | 1

Missy Ryan, former jorno at CNN, was one of the Rixos Hotel US jornos in Tripoli during Qadhafi times during the Lybian war together with Jomana and Matthew Chance. As it was shown, there are not jornos in reality but undercover CIA agents. Qadhafi prohibited them to go around so that they didn't give any infos. They were tasked with the ops to kill dissident jornos namely Thierry Meyssan, Lizzie Phelan, and another one from Global Research as well as a Black Senator who saw that initial beheadings in Libya were done by Danish and French officers as Libyans didn't want to perform it. So I have quite a lot of doubts about what Missy Ryan writes. Just CIA propaganda inflitrating newspapers.

Posted by: Sierrasverdes1 | Nov 8, 2014 9:34:43 AM | 2

Just more of the same old BS. This, from TRNN:

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12278

Posted by: ben | Nov 8, 2014 9:40:37 AM | 3

DB @ 1: Thanks for the link, good read.

Posted by: ben | Nov 8, 2014 9:52:02 AM | 4

The Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra were both part of AlQaida in Iraq (AQI).

True - and Al QI was created/long-ago-infiltrated-at-the-uppermost-levels by the Empire, so as to have a semi-plausible "enemy" for the Empire when it decides to kick the crap out of some 3rd world country. A bunch of Mad Muslims was decided upon long ago by the likes of Zio-Nazi Bernard Lewis as the vehicle to kickstart his "Clash of Civilisations" Pro-Zionist game-plan

The were created in reaction to the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

False - they were created by the Empire and it's minions so as to have A) a plausible enemy for the Empire to fight & B) a stay-behind group of Mayhem creators should the US leave

AlQ existed before the invasion of Iraq and was one of the many many pathetic excuses used to justify that illegal invasion

Hard to justify having a war when only one side shows up

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 8, 2014 10:42:26 AM | 5

To accuse the Syrian government for their creation is propagandistic nonsense.

agreed.

did the WaPo ever blame bashar al-assad's notorious mukhabarat for its participation in bush the younger's outsourced torture program?

i doubt it.

Posted by: john | Nov 8, 2014 10:54:30 AM | 6

On Missy Ryan, she is doing the task that the WaPo assigned her after the "news" paper got its memo from the US State Department, to wit: The effort against ISIS has to be turned into an effort against Syria. Iran will come eventually, but Syria must come now. This is getting embarrassing, with the US for years now demanding that Assad must go and he's actually gaining a victory. That must stop and the Washington Post must pull its share of the load (and deliver a load). The PTB see an opportunity now that Obama got his butt whipped in the election.

If "journalist" Missy Ryan DIDN'T write this nonsense she would become an ex-journalist and they'd get somebody else to do it. She knows that. Every "journalist" at the WaPo and NYT knows that.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8, 2014 11:00:11 AM | 7

http://www.thenation.com/article/bushs-faustian-deal-taliban#

$43 million from US sent to the Taliban. Article from June 2001

Posted by: Fast Freddy | Nov 8, 2014 12:10:13 PM | 8

for the usa to accept responsibility for what it's war in iraq created, would be for them to wake up from all the rest of the bullshit they are responsible for.. instead the stenographers are the major propaganda outlets will be suggesting something completely different.. denial is an amazing human characteristic and the usa culture demonstrates it in spades.

Posted by: james | Nov 8, 2014 12:27:10 PM | 9

Its the same as any child would do, blame others for the mess one created. This is what these "journalists" get paid for, any one with the vague sense of truth gets weeded out in high school.

These lies only carry weight among a dwindling group of elite in the west though. Eventually, the tangled web will tangle even them.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 8, 2014 2:20:04 PM | 10

JMcC

B is defining a point when the breakoffs swung out of Empire control, but that doesn't suit your
always in control fantasy.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 8, 2014 5:03:30 PM | 11

Yawn


You're to stupid to even argue with

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 8, 2014 5:13:34 PM | 12

the idiot at @11 should have read it also

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 8, 2014 5:28:16 PM | 14

It's a pity Missy Ryan "forgot" that Dubya Bush promised, before the invasion, to turn Iraq into "flypaper for Ter'rists" (fight them over there rather than over here) - and that the biggest bug that got stuck to it was the US of A.

Although the 2005 London Bombing tended to expose the fly-paper theory as a product of feeble minds, it did persuade a lot of Brits that the timing (within weeks of Tony Bliar announcing a UK withdrawal from the Iraq Fake War) made 7/7 look a lot like an Inside Job (like the all-too-convenient 9/11).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 8, 2014 11:17:38 PM | 15

In my opinion, reading the Washington Post is a waste of time, especially now that it's an Amazon/CIA franchise ... but an Izzy Stone I am not ... his sort of focus allowed him to derive enormous understanding from the tons of newsprint he devoured daily.

But this is nonsense, as B himself says, and he read it, Better he than I.

But I don't understand B's reluctance to entertain what to me is obvious : the USA and the Gulf despots created the 'rebel armies' in Syria and Iraq.

Surely it is the devastation of the entire region - the crime that can only be laid entirely at the doorstep of the US/UK/EU/Israel - that motivates the actual foot soldiers in these alphabet armies; but their arms, their chow, and the specification of 'the enemy' are all handled by US/UK/EU/Israel, chiefly by the US. And their paychecks come from the Gulf despots, chiefly Saudi Arabia, although the place is so awash in cash that money is not the heaviest part of the lifting. And what, exactly, became of the 30 billion in arms purchases made this year and last by the Saudis? They're killing Iraqis and Syrians.

There are two wars of devastation going on : one by the 'people' - the foot soldiers - against those who have devastated their region. even though it's hard for us to connect the dots between the real devastators and their immediate victims; and another against anyone who embraces TIAA (There Is An Alternative to the global, neo-liberal empire) driven by the Emperors of Spice Dreams : the TNCs, and their captive governments in US/UK/EU/Israel and their dependents in the Golf Oil Despots' country clubs.

Thanks for the links Don Bacon and and really.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 8, 2014 11:39:45 PM | 16

Don@1

I read your story on the Caliphate and it is quite a fractured fairy tale. Your talking point assertions aren't even supported by the following paragraphs except in some abstract unexplained way.

Uri Avnery's latest post at Counterpunch is clear about how some Israelis view the Islamic State as an existential threat not so much because of their military power but because of the Idea they represent and the promise they offer to the Muslim world.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Nov 9, 2014 10:48:21 AM | 17

Don Bacon @ 1 -- thanks for your excellent piece on the origins of the 'Caliphate'.

Something incidental to your piece got me off on another chain of thought.

You give a quote where Biden says you don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist. I remember coming across a piece on Biden at that very interesting but now defunct website, judicial-inc.biz, showing a number of photos of him voting in the first Iraq election, held under American auspices, the so-called purple-finger election. The photos were from CNN, with Biden proudly showing his stained finger. The vote was open to anyone of Iraqi origin, and Biden said he had voted on the evidence of his Iraqi grand-father's Torah. The CNN piece has long-since disappeared.

Here is the link to the original judicial-inc article: http://judicial-inc.biz/biden.htm. If you click on it you will get a notice that the site is under construction, and a shabby video-clip of a semi-clad woman doing some sort of twitch, with the suggestion that you use it for wanking. It is sad to see someone dancing on the grave of a brave but grim venture.

The author, who I assume was some sort of Jewish renegade, had it as his life mission to detail the most telling sins of Jews that he could get his hands on. His specialty was outing crypto-Jews, such as Hugh Hefner the pornographer who was given a lifetime achievement award by the B'nai Brith. Given the Jewish ascendency over the Western world, the material the site carried was something the rest of us might find handy for our self-defence. Starting a few years ago the site started getting banned, and finding a replacement server took increasingly longer. There were only a couple of new articles over the last year or so. The last one heard, he mentioned he was being stalked by the ADL. And now much of the material has disappeared even from web archives, though the Biden piece is still available, at http://web.archive.org/web/20080325210156/http://judicial-inc.biz/biden.htm.">http://judicial-inc.biz/biden.htm.">http://web.archive.org/web/20080325210156/http://judicial-inc.biz/biden.htm.

I wonder what happened.

Posted by: sarz | Nov 9, 2014 1:59:57 PM | 18

Interesting . . .

Your WebArchive link won't work though
here's a link that'll get people to where you want them to go

http://tinyurl.com/mcxd5w6

One might need Javascript turned on to view it - not sure

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 9, 2014 3:25:19 PM | 19

Biden, like John [Cohen] Kerry, likes to pretend he's Irish as far as I know

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 9, 2014 3:27:17 PM | 20

@ jfl & sarz
Thanks for the comments.
Regarding the Washington Post, b's headline is correct: "WaPo Blames Syria...." before he focuses on Missy Ryan, a tool of the Post when it comes to supporting essential national positions like 'Iran and Syria are bad.' That doesn't cost the Post any advertisers, it avoids controversy and supports the 'common wisdom,' and it doesn't have any negatives.

On subjects like this, the Post's editors rule. Some USAToday excerpts from laudatory obits on recently-passed Ben Bradlee, the former executive editor of The Washington Post:

Ben Bradlee was the most charismatic boss I have ever worked for or, for that matter, ever seen,'' Kramer said. "He was a wonderful person and an inspirational leader. His guidance was so powerful because it was so simple...But his true magic was as a leader,'' Kramer said. "Leading came so natural to him that if you worked for him you barely realized you had become unflinchingly loyal to him. ..Described by colleagues as passionate, blustery, confident and playful, Bradlee roamed the newsroom to gossip with and recognize reporters for their work in his frequent but brief stops at cubicles.

For those who want to get deeper into this subject, check out Norman Solomon's "War Made Easy: How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death."
War Made Easy cuts through the dense web of spin to probe and scrutinize the key "perception management" techniques that have played huge roles in the promotion of American wars in recent decades. This guide to disinformation analyzes American military adventures past and present to reveal striking similarities in the efforts of various administrations to justify, and retain, public support for war. War Made Easy is essential reading. It documents a long series of deliberate misdeeds at the highest levels of power and lays out important guidelines to help readers distinguish a propaganda campaign from actual news reporting. With War Made Easy, every reader can become a savvy media critic and, perhaps, help the nation avoid costly and unnecessary wars.--Amazon

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 9, 2014 4:10:07 PM | 21

JMcC

Learn how to spell too.


I would like someone to authenticate a quote BEFORE the Iraq War, from Bush or any of his team which predicted a significant onslaught of
Al Qaida or other jihadists to Iraq as an intended result of the invasion. After the war was being lost, as a defense mechanism, certainly.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 9, 2014 4:27:09 PM | 22

so why do young males go off on jihad?

Sunday, November 09, 2014
I offer you struggle, danger and death

"Review of Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler" by George Orwell (March 1940) (note how much this is exactly like today's United States, where the only two available jobs are prison guard or soldier):

"What he envisages, a hundred years hence, is a continuous state of 250 million Germans with plenty of “living room” (i.e. stretching to Afghanistan or thereabouts), a horrible brainless empire in which, essentially, nothing ever happens except the training of young men for war and the endless breeding of fresh cannon-fodder. How was it that he was able to put this monstrous decision across?"
and:

". . . he has grasped the falsity of the hedonistic attitude to life. Nearly all western thought since the last war, certainly all “progressive” thought, has assumed tacitly that human beings desire nothing beyond ease, security and avoidance of pain. In such a view of life there is no room, for instance, for patriotism and the military virtues. The Socialist who finds his children playing with soldiers is usually upset, but he is never able to think of a substitute for the tin soldiers; tin pacifists somehow won’t do. Hitler, because in his own joyless mind he feels it with exceptional strength, knows that human beings don’t only want comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense; they also, at least intermittently, want struggle and self-sacrifice, not to mention drums, flags and loyalty-parades. However they may be as economic theories, Fascism and Nazism are psychologically far sounder than any hedonistic conception of life. The same is probably true of Stalin’s militarized version of Socialism. All three of the great dictators have enhanced their power by imposing intolerable burdens on their peoples. Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a more grudging way, have said to people “I offer you a good time,” Hitler has said to them “I offer you struggle, danger and death,” and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet. Perhaps later on they will get sick of it and change their minds, as at the end of the last war. After a few years of slaughter and starvation “Greatest happiness of the greatest number” is a good slogan, but at this moment “Better an end with horror than a horror without end” is a winner. Now that we are fighting against the man who coined it, we ought not to underrate its emotional appeal."
"The War Nerd: Crunching numbers on Kobane":

"The rules of that war are very different. Imagine you’re a young guy sitting at a café in, say, Tunis.

There are no jobs in Tunis. There isn’t much that connects you to anyone, except Islam, which—in theory—unites all Muslims in friendship. It doesn’t work that way in practice, of course, as Muslims from poor countries find when they take jobs in the Gulf—and Lord, do they get mad!–but it’s still the only cheerful idea in your world, as you sit there nursing a coffee all day.

Imagine being that guy, and jihad doesn’t seem like such a crazy idea. You don’t even have to imagine being a Tunisian; I can give you an All-American example from the other side of the fight in Kobane. Jordan Matson, a 28-year old American, joined the YPG after getting out of the US Army and ending up doing night shifts in a meat-packing plant.

I’m not pretending that YPG and IS are morally equal. They’re not. YPG is a secular, gender-neutral local militia defending its home town against fucking monsters, and IS is the monster in question, one of the vilest groups around. But the life-story, the motives, the experiences, of Jordan Matson and the average Tunisian recruit aren’t that different. Jihad, on either side, beats graveyard shift in Wisconsin or unemployment in Tunis.

So if you’re that potential IS recruit in Tunis, you’re watching the news from Kobane, but you’re watching it your way. You don’t worry too much about the atrocity stories coming out about IS. Young men have a great tolerance, let us say, for such things. In fact, many of them have a great deal more than tolerance—something more like enthusiasm, and I speak from my own embarrassing experience of a celibate adolescence.

As for sex slavery, it can look very different, if you’re a celibate young man sitting in a Tunis café with no job, than it looks to a New York Times pundit. As William Butler Yeats said a century ago, noting the, er, unusual eagerness of young Irish Catholic males to get themselves killed fighting better-trained and –armed regulars, celibate young men raised in sex-segregated environments get very excited at the idea of war and martyrdom. My hand is the first to be raised here, my old bald head blushing. I’m not one of those old “bald heads forgetful of their sins” that Yeats described; I remember my sins all too well, even if they were mostly imagined. And the average young man in Tunis or Riyadh has been raised in an atmosphere every bit as devout and celibate as the one which forged the martyrs of Yeats’s Ireland.

If you really want to venture into this territory—and it’s very, very embarrassing territory, believe me—you should read an amazing book called Male Fantasies.

The author is an annoying German academic, and the writing is tedious as Hell, but the idea is amazing: A look at the fantasies about women that motivated the young men who joined the Freikorps, the volunteer military forces of Weimar-era Germany. The book argues, in its slow, earnest German way, that these fantasies are ordinary, but very creepy, male ideas leading direct from dumb-ass dreams about girls, to the fatal decision to march off with the Freikorps. And if you were to look for a 21st version of the Freikorps…Ladies and gents, may I present Islamic State?"
"ISIS and the Real Reason Why Young Muslim Men Join the Jihad"
http://xymphora.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/i-offer-you-struggle-danger-and-death.html

Posted by: brian | Nov 9, 2014 4:42:43 PM | 23

@sarz
Biden was making the point that Jewishness and Zionism are two separate and distinct things, and IMO we should stick with that.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 9, 2014 4:42:51 PM | 24


ISIS and the Real Reason Why Young Muslim Men Join the JihadThe male warrior phenomenon
Published on September 20, 2014 by Mark van Vugt, Ph.D. in Naturally Selected


Almost every day new news stories and gruesome images appear of atrocities committed by ISIS (Islamic State), also referred to as IS. This does not seem to diminish the appeal of this terrorist movement, however. Recent figures show that there are more than 3000 Western jihadists who have joined to fight in Syria and Iraq, mostly young Muslim men from Britain, Australia, France, Germany and the US. The mortality rates are pretty high (of the 140 Dutch IS fighters 15 are known to have died; so more than 10%). So this begs the question why any rational human being would decide to fight there?

Analysts and politicians break their heads over the apparent popularity of IS among foreign fighters, and they come up with all sorts of explanations such as discrimination and prejudice at home, an aversion to Western culture, and the influence of the imams. I do believe that all these factors play a role, but they ignore a deeper underlying cause. For many young men engaging in warfare is just an adventurous journey. And for many it is a way to increase their status among their peers.


The American philosopher Jesse Glenn Gray fought in World War II and described his experiences as a member of a platoon in the memorable book The Warriors: "Many veterans who are honest with themselves will admit that the experience of communal effort in battle was a high point of their lives. Despite the horror, the weariness, and the grim hatred, participation with others in the chances of battle had its unforgettable side which they would not want to have missed. "

Are the Western jihadists seeking such highlights? It could well be. We have done quite a bit of research on what we call "male warrior' effect. This describes the strong fascination among men in particular with anything to do with warfare. We find significant differences between men and women in watching war movies, reading war books, and in their political support for armed conflict as a solution to international relations. Men also participate more in intergroup aggression, are more prejudiced, and like to wear the colors of their favorite tribes, for instance, the sports team, motorcycle club, and religious tribe. This warrior psychology is probably deeply ingrained in the biology of men. There are several indications.

In different places in the world archeologists have found the mass graves with the skulls and skeletons are of men, women, and children who are clearly the victims of organized violence. Some of these graves are several tens of thousands years old. In today's hunter-gatherer tribes – such as the Yanomamo in the Amazon – we see that male warriors enjoy high standing. The more enemies a warrior slains the higher his status in the group. Status translates into reproductive success, because good warriors sire more children. In recent research, we have through scenarios looked at the attractiveness of soldiers. Historical research (yet unpublished) shows that American soldiers who had earned a Medal of Honor in World War II had more children on average than the average war veteran surviving WWII.

In our genetic relatives, the chimpanzee, we also find evidence for something that looks like warfare. Males of one community work together to guard the borders of their territory and if they see a male intruder then they grab him, pulling his limbs from his body and bite off his genitals. Female intruders tend to be left alone. It is a cowardly and sadistic spectacle reminiscent of some of the IS videos. Primatologists believe that the cause of these killings lies in weakening the other community so that the females choose to migrate to the stronger community. A recent study in Nature indeed shows that chimpanzee violence is not a result of human interference because it occurs even in areas in which there is no chimpanzee human interaction..


There may be several evolutionary advantages for young men to join a war party despite the chances of death. It gives young men a platform to acquire hero status for themselves and their family, and thus access to fame, women, and sex. The 72 virgins for Jihadis who are slain in battle is a metaphor of this reward. Sometimes however bride theft is a direct cause of warfare, think of the two hundred Nigerian girls were recently kidnapped by Boko Haram. Furthermore, participation in warfare ensures a memorable bonding experience with like-minded young men, similar perhaps to joining a street gang or a group of hooligans. Probably there is also a hefty dose of the "love" hormone oxytocin involved in the male bonding that occurs during fights. This mix of excitement, elevated status, and the surge of powerful hormones is the real reason why so many young Western men choose to join IS.

What should Western governments do about this? I have watched the anti-IS video of the American government showing clips of public executions by IS, and suicide bombs going off in mosques. The message is that you're crazy if you're going to fight fellow Muslims. But that's not the solution, I believe. Muslim communities around the world should stand up and make clear that it is not cool to become a Jihadist fighter and that you are absolutely not a hero but a loser who is rejected by their local community, by the mosques, the imams and women if they join this war. Those young Muslim men who stay home should be considered the true heroes of this terrible story.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/naturally-selected/201409/isis-and-the-real-reason-why-young-muslim-men-join-the-jihad

Posted by: brian | Nov 9, 2014 4:44:19 PM | 25

Biden was making the point that Jewishness and Zionism are two separate and distinct things, and IMO we should stick with that.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 9, 2014 4:42:51 PM | 24

without jewishness thered be no zionism

Posted by: brian | Nov 9, 2014 4:50:08 PM | 26

@: brian #23
I don't have Orwell's or Yeats's intellect, so probably for that reason I think your verbage is overblown. Young men go to war simply because in their stupidity they have been convinced by their elders that it's a patriotic endeavor, and perhaps they have no good alternatives. Then when these immature males actually get into it they find it exciting in many ways including the close ties to other males. Band of brothers.

That's why the military is so successful in recruiting teenagers. They don't know any better. (In fact the Marines start with pre-teens.) The human brain isn't fully mature, on average, until about age 30, they've recently found, depending somewhat of course upon individual life-styles.

The marketing specifics differ, the Marines from the Islamists from the French Foreign Legion, but at the core it's all similar, IMO. They convert the weakest societal element (boys) into the strongest (fighting men).

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 9, 2014 4:59:47 PM | 27

@Posted by: brian #26
without jewishness thered be no zionism

Joe Biden is Irish-Catholic, and a self-claimed Zionist.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 9, 2014 5:07:04 PM | 28


I would like someone to authenticate a quote BEFORE the Iraq War, from Bush or any of his team which predicted a significant onslaught of
Al Qaida or other jihadists to Iraq as an intended result of the invasion. After the war was being lost, as a defense mechanism, certainly.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 9, 2014 4:27:09 PM | 22


Are there really people in the world that are that stupid that they think the above could possibly form a coherent argument?

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 9, 2014 5:20:15 PM | 29

@27
'I don't have Orwell's or Yeats's intellect, so probably for that reason I think your verbage is overblown'

i know...because if you had the intellect youd know this was written by blogger xymphora!

however the ideas presented are good and likely valid..we'd know more if someone bothered to interview jihadis

Posted by: brian | Nov 9, 2014 5:46:36 PM | 30

Surprisingly I agree with Mr Bacon on this one

IMO Yeats' claims about young Irish Catholics and what motivated them have to be viewed with the fact in mind that Yeats was part of the privileged Protestant Ascendancy, which was undergoing something of a identity crisis, (as well as Economical and political crises), and didn't have much in common with the majority of the rest of the population. In his search for meaning he conjured up some sort of Mythical Irishness which unfortunately had little basis in reality.

Catholicism, and Catholic society, such as it was, was pretty alien to him, just as Islam is alien to most of the modern-day "Western" pseudo-intellectuals bloviating about young Islamic men. So he latched onto Catholicism as THE explanation for what he saw happening around him. IMO it's nonsense.

These guys go to war for the exact same reasons young men have always eagerly gone to war - testosterone mixed with youth and ideology is a potent brew, and it was no different in Yeats' or Orwell's time either

Curious that Xymphora and War Nerd focused on Yeats and Orwell, as they both to some degree were essentially propagandists.

War Nerd is in real life John Dolan - so his focus on Yeats is probably just a result of him simply having studied an Irish Poet/Playwright in his college days and then attempting to use what he knows (or thinks he knows) about Yeats' work, while looking for a hook on which to hang his neat little theories (in his mind anyway) of just how different Muslims are from "the rest of us" (in Dolan's mind). Much like Yeats, in fact.

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 9, 2014 6:14:15 PM | 31

IMO what motivates a lot of these "Western" Jihadis is simply the result of a basic 'push-pull' technique, in regard to how Islam is treated in the west.

One the one hand there is the notion of "inclusivity" with even Politicians like David Cameron publicly and loudly claim to subscribe to, regarding the place of Muslims in Western countries


Mix that with opposing constant Anti-Muslim terror-mongering openly practiced by the likes of the very same David Cameron, the Police Forces, The Security forces etc as well as all the Media.

At the same time those very same Politicians send their troops of to kill Muslims in the 3rd world in illegal unprovoked wars.

There exists a lot of evidence of widespread infiltration of Security Service agents into Muslim communities who have been going around very successfully "radicalising" and entrapping some of the more dimwitted individuals in the Islamic communities in Western countries, complete with lurid nonsensical police and SS claims regarding their (usually) non-existent "terrorist" capabilities., dutifully parroted and hyped in equally lurid headlines by the willing media,

Again at the same time Western Media and politicians as somewhat schizophrenically openly supporting the exact terrorist groups that the claim are gonna kill us all in our beds at night

There you have the basis IMO for what motivates these "Western" jihadis

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 9, 2014 6:35:04 PM | 32

Orwell himself was imo influenced by that same potent brew of testosterone mixed with youth and ideology when he went off to fight in Spain

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 9, 2014 6:36:48 PM | 33

Joe Biden is Irish-Catholic,

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 9, 2014 5:07:04 PM | 28

Notaccording to that link provided by sarz earlier

Wasn't his alleged "Irish Catholic heritage" that got him a vote in the Iraqi elections now, was it?

Something to do with a Torah according to the news reporting at the time

Just simply ignoring that won't make it disappear, Don

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 9, 2014 6:43:08 PM | 34

Dear Moony Man,

What can you tell us about this other "secret" activity by president Obama? Allegedly he sent message via secret channels to Syria, letting them know they are off the hook, for now. Do you know any more about the subject? If true, it is a move in the right direction, too little, too late. Nevertheless, a move that would take courage to take, not one of Obama's virtues. I'd appreciate you share what you know in what could be a monumental change in US policy toward the ME, next to the other "secret" letter to Iran's Khamenei.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Nov 9, 2014 6:49:25 PM | 35

It's the same b.s that Bush used when he accused Saddam Hossein of being an accomplice to the 9/11 attack.
Didn't they accused Iran of being behind ISIS?
Any b.s is used to demonize a USA enemy that stays defiant.

Posted by: Virgile | Nov 9, 2014 7:31:21 PM | 36

If the Empire is no longer in control of ISIS, then are the Israelis still treating their fighters in pop-up field hospitals?
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/09/turkey-israel-directly-supporting-isis-al-qaeda-syria.html
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/06/11/why_israel_is_tending_to_the_syrian_rebels_wounded

'Cause if they are, um ya know, someone should tell them, like, not to.

Posted by: Farflungstar | Nov 9, 2014 8:57:27 PM | 37

Oh those dumb isrealis

Cleary they need to delegate a few mossad guys to read the likes of wankeroutwest and truthbenottold @moa.

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 9, 2014 9:16:14 PM | 38

The long tracts linked by brian, from Xymphora & psychologytoday, both touch on the Group Think factor which, to me, is best summed up as
The larger a crowd gets, the more brainless it tends to become.

Imo, this (undeniable?) feature of human behaviour (for both sexes) seems to be the basis of America's (+ Gene Sharp's) Non Violent Protest (plus guns + snipers) method of Overthrowing democratic, secular, anti-Totalitarian Capitalist Greed "regimes".

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 9, 2014 11:12:52 PM | 39

F@37

You really should read beyond the headline in the links you provide. the FP story is very clear about who is being helped by the Israelis, the FSA and other Syrian Opposition groups. The Islamic State and al-Nusra are not part of the other Syrian Opposition Groups they are fighting all other Western backed groups such as the FSA and have eliminated quite a few of them.

Even the Turkish story is based on hearsay with no evidence offered only opinion. Some IS fighters may be getting medical treatment in both countries but it is impossible to distinguish a Syrian IS fighter from any other injured Syrian.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Nov 9, 2014 11:18:02 PM | 40

I don't know the extent of our direction/influence, but the US certainly seemed to welcome (if not abet) the Sunni Awakening in the waning days of our second Iraq invasion. This seems to be the crystalization of the Sunni terrorism in Iraq. The invasion created the conditions, but we paid, trained covertly, operated with and transferred intel and no doubt weapons to these guys. That you for your great blog

Posted by: scottindallas | Nov 10, 2014 9:12:13 AM | 42

brian that psychology today article is a a load of something stinking.
It's official story hokum- even using the 72 virgins and the other assorted nonsense-

Young men go to war because they are manipulated by persons who are skilled at that form of manipulation
Boot camp in Canada and the US is a form of mind control-
Tearing down then rebuilding a 'new person'
Which causes much internal conflict with or without the battlefield.

Muslim or Christian it's all the same- play the people, Know what makes them tick, keep them stupid and poor, destroy their social cohesion- destroy their families, their communities through manipulative economics and you can create all the soldiers you need
Video games are great for indoctrination too
Hollywood- all of it

Posted by: Penny | Nov 10, 2014 9:56:06 AM | 43

Oui at 41

ISIS didn't get oxygen in Syria and take it to Iraq
ISIS was born in Iraq and moved into Syria.
You are touting a mainstream lie with that one
Yikes!

Posted by: Penny | Nov 10, 2014 9:58:21 AM | 44

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi & Bin Laden legends ‘made in USA’

The legend of “Caliph” Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, like that of Osama Bin Laden, is highly suspicious. Like Bin Laden, Baghdadi was a long-term guest of the American military – at a US base in Iraq rather than US bases in America. And as in the case of Bin Laden, the US military has emitted transparently false statements aimed at hiding or minimizing its relationship with Baghdadi, its supposed worst enemy.

The US says it held Baghdadi in the “terrorist training wing” of Camp Bucca for less than one year. But both American and Iraqi witnesses say it was more than five years. In any case, it would appear that the self-styled caliph was groomed for his future role while in US custody.

After his release, Baghdadi and his ISIL commanders received further training, as well as weapons and funds, at a secret CIA base in Jordan. The US worked through its regional proxies to create a formidable ISIL army aimed at overthrowing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. It seems likely that the US and its proxies also provided the intelligence that allowed ISIL to overrun the Iraqi army – which the US had intentionally disarmed – and seize oil-rich parts of Iraq.

And yet the American people are still being told that Baghdadi is their worst enemy. Like the tale of the “anti-US terrorist mastermind” Bin Laden, the story of the latest bogeyman Baghdadi is a transparently absurd legend.

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 10, 2014 3:25:16 PM | 45

Joe Biden is Irish-Catholic, and a self-claimed Zionist.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 9, 2014 5:07:04 PM | 28

most zionists are jewish (witness PNAC). and as is auid thered be to zionsim for Biden to aspire to but for judaism

Posted by: brian | Nov 10, 2014 4:39:47 PM | 46

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 9, 2014 11:12:52 PM | 39

youve not read the Wisdom of Crowds

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wisdom-Crowds-James-Surowiecki/dp/0385721706

Posted by: brian | Nov 10, 2014 4:41:40 PM | 47

Muslim or Christian it's all the same- play the people, Know what makes them tick, keep them stupid and poor, destroy their social cohesion- destroy their families, their communities through manipulative economics and you can create all the soldiers you need
Video games are great for indoctrination too
Hollywood- all of it

Posted by: Penny | Nov 10, 2014 9:56:06 AM | 43

so far its only sunnis being subject to this sort of manipulation thru the concept of Jihad..

Posted by: brian | Nov 10, 2014 4:43:49 PM | 48

ISIS didn't get oxygen in Syria and take it to Iraq
ISIS was born in Iraq and moved into Syria.
You are touting a mainstream lie with that one
Yikes!

Posted by: Penny | Nov 10, 2014 9:58:21 AM | 44

ISIS was formerly Alqaeda in Iraq...thats been known for ages, and links the events in syrias back thru OBL to the mujahadeen formed by Brzezinski in Afghanistan...

Posted by: brian | Nov 10, 2014 4:45:24 PM | 49

JM@45

Little White Lies from the Persian Persuader. The level of desperation in Qom must be very high, the fact that you are trying too hard to promote this tripe is telling.

For propaganda to be persuasive it must be believable to more people than those who read with their finger.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Nov 10, 2014 4:52:19 PM | 50

you really are a retard

Posted by: the Persian Persuader | Nov 10, 2014 5:26:29 PM | 51

So far 2 retards have offered their retarded thoughts on who supposed to be working for

Retard #1 ("Johnboy") said "Israeli!!"

Retard #2 (WankerOutWest) said "Iran!!"

Perhaps you 2 retards could organise a Retard Conference where you 2 retards could sit down and decided which it is - Iran or Israel?

Posted by: the Persian Persuader | Nov 10, 2014 5:30:41 PM | 52

so far its only sunnis being subject to this sort of manipulation thru the concept of Jihad..

Posted by: brian | Nov 10, 2014 4:43:49 PM | 49

Nonsense brian

everyone is being Manipulated

Westerners are being just as equally manipulated through the use of "Terrorists commin ta git ya!" headlines

Posted by: the Persian Persuader | Nov 10, 2014 5:41:20 PM | 53

Biden voted in an Iraq that didn't and still doesn't recognize Israel.
I will agree, however, that those who find e.g. a Jewish great grandparent somewhere in their ancestry, and use it to support
a bandit state like Israel, might fairly be called crypto-jews, but that is far from the worse label that could be bestowed on them if they are part of the American ruling class.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 10, 2014 7:52:51 PM | 54

The inference that the US planners of the Iraq War intended to fight a no-win quagmire in which various insurgencies, some
Baathist Saddam loyalists, some independent Baathists and some theretofore CIA and-or Mossad created jihadists would materialize
and create an unwinnable and still unwon quagmire is preposterous.

I believe Bacon among others has earlier outlined and elaborated on the plan, thwarted by among others Sistani, which was to install an Israel-friendly puppet government via phony elections and which was assumed to be doable by 2004-5.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 10, 2014 8:01:36 PM | 55

The inference that the US planners of the Iraq War intended to fight a no-win quagmire in which various insurgencies, someBaathist Saddam loyalists, some independent Baathists and some theretofore CIA and-or Mossad created jihadists would materializeand create an unwinnable and still unwon quagmire is preposterous.

Not it isn't.

Stop being ridiculous

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 10, 2014 8:10:57 PM | 56

Whoops
"No it isn't"

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 10, 2014 8:11:50 PM | 57

Yes it is.
And your bullcrap runaway conspiratology removes most or all of the responsibility of the US public to resist their inept leaders
who only get by fighting unwinnable and ultimately national-collapsing quagmires because the populace is without an ideological clue to fight them.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 10, 2014 8:16:00 PM | 58

Anyway your bullshit at 56 is just to distract from the obvious conclusion that most if not all of these myriad stupidly named jihadi groups are merely proxies for the empire, either setup from scratch by the empire itself or so heavily infiltrated at their uppermost levels as to have no independent leadership

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 10, 2014 8:17:33 PM | 59

conspiratology removes most or all of the responsibility of the US public to resist their inept leaders

No it doesn't

Without acknowledgement of the obvious conspiracy no effective resistence is possible

You clearly want everyone to remain ignorant of the true nature of the Empire's involvement in creating and maintaining these fakes. . Consequently you seem to favour completey ineffective resistence

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 10, 2014 8:22:42 PM | 60

Your bullshit is to distract from the conclusion that the various insurgencies, in spite of their infighting, heroically resisted American invasion and installation of a pro-Israel puppet.

The fact that Hillary Clinton is considered a viable candidate for president and a foreign policy expert despite being wrong in her predictions
about every Mideast gambit -errors which cost tens of thousands of American lives and limbs and trillions in expenditures since 2003 demonstrates the abject stupidity of the American populace.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 10, 2014 8:23:20 PM | 61

It's a sad fact also, that your inference notwithstanding, many US troops and laypeople understand that the US government has attempted to create and control jihad groups since they were utilized to push the Soviets out of Afghan--and they do not care much if at all because they
are willing players in the Empire's world policing and they will not care until they see clearly they are participants in a
losing war because the groups are not controllable.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 10, 2014 8:32:45 PM | 62

Blah blah blah

What you said about killery applies pretty much to every american on the planet. You yanks should probably just shut the f up and just sit and ponder your own obvious stupidity for a while.

That way the rest of us wouldnt have to hear the utterly vacuous bleatings that pass for your "thoughts"

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 10, 2014 8:34:54 PM | 63

The groups are not controllable?

Clearly they are since they're currently doing a damn fine rendition of the yinon plan. Killing hundreds of thousands of muslims in countries all considered a threat by the ZioNazis, and not a dead Israeli in sight.

Only a moron would continue to claim that these groups are out of control, from an "implementing yinon" perspective

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 10, 2014 8:40:17 PM | 64

Israel has ceded territory since the Yinon Plan was composed.

The Sunni-Shia split itself, yes, is uncontrollable by the Empire.
Just as Hamas proved to be uncontrollable by Israel and will be more so the next round-- as Hezbollah would agree after giving your invincible Israelis a good whacking.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 10, 2014 8:53:57 PM | 65

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40173.htm

From Cockburn, a description of life under ISIS rule. Doesn't sound so great - I don't suspect the fanatical fakers can rule their six millions for too long frankly. Compare this, of course, to VICE Magazine's early articles about how life hadn't changed much since ISIS came to rule Mosul.

Meanwhile, WayWayWayWayOutWeirdo's mighty ISIS machine, which will if we are to believe him soon conquer Turkey and challenge Israel, has been booted out of one of the prizes of the Iraqi oil economy, Baiji, by the Iraqi Army. Coupled with the fact that soon even Mosul will turn against them, ISIS is on the way out (until the US allied Saudis can get them more weapons and money, that is!).

If you want to measure how serious of a threat someone considers ISIS and global terrorism, ask this: Do you A) support those who are currently fighting ISIS hard and trouncing them often (the Iraqi Army and the Syrian Army) or do you B) indulge in the most pinheaded conspiracy theories about "Assad creating ISIS" and attack those forces fighting them as the "Assad" and "Maliki" Regimes, and discuss boosting the Fictious Syrian Army?

All you need to know about ones commitment to world peace and civilization will be in that answer.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 10, 2014 8:57:01 PM | 66

Now #66, that 's exactly what i meant when I referred to "vacuous bleatings" passing as "thoughts"

Isreal didnt "cede" anything.

Instead they created the largest concentration camp in the world.

They still fully control its borders and airspace, but have even less legal responsibilty for the lives of its inhabitants than previously.

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 10, 2014 9:03:56 PM | 67

@67

Of course a mere few months ago the Gimp @67 was touting exactly the same line of bullshit that wankoutwest is still touting

Not that the Gimp would ever admit it now. His kind never does.

Now, apparently, he's an authority on how ISIS is a proxy for the Empire.

Lol. What an utter gimp

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 10, 2014 9:09:17 PM | 68

LOL

Watching The Gimp attempting to chastise wankout for making "conspiracy theory" claims regarding ISIS +Assad is hilarious

Only a few months back the Gimp was behaving in exactly the same manner, screaming "conspiracy theorist" like the demented loon he is, at anyone that pointed out that ISIS and the Empire were joined at the hip

The hypocrisy of vacuous yank twats like the Gimp is boundless it seems

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 10, 2014 9:16:19 PM | 69

@36 Virgile.. i strongly agree with your post..

@56 truthbetold quote "The inference that the US ....would.... create an unwinnable and still unwon quagmire is preposterous." i don't think it is..

an effective way to control another country is to leave it in a state of constant disarray.. this is exactly what's happened in iraq and libya and what seems to be unfolding at present in the ukraine.. some might argue that it was an accident while others will argue it's been intentional.. i think it's intentional..

the usa and israel are both 'terrorist' states that need to be stopped.. western propaganda is working so well that most of the time who usa-israel want contained are viewed in the west as who needs to be contained.. russia, iran and etc. etc. are immediate examples of this.. it is just the opposite.. the usa and israel both need to be held to account for the mayhem they are responsible for..

Posted by: james | Nov 10, 2014 10:27:16 PM | 70

i forgot to include syria in the list..

Posted by: james | Nov 10, 2014 10:28:18 PM | 71

youve not read the Wisdom of Crowds
Posted by: brian | Nov 10, 2014 4:41:40 PM | 47

You got that right. And if Wiki's outline is a reliable guide, I'd be inclined to classify it as a bit too Hopey Changey for my taste.
I particularly question the author's belief that a crowd is capable of collectively arriving at a resolution smarter than that which the smartest member would be capable of deducing.
How could he, or anyone else, know that?
Chutzpah?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 10, 2014 11:10:38 PM | 72

Transcript and 15 min video of Robert Fisk interview on ABC.au Lateline last night. According to Fisk the SAA are fighting for their lives and their country, not Assad, whom Fisk takes great care to distance himself from, but nevertheless makes Assad seem quite heroically savvy and successful.
(and compared to Team Obama, who wouldn't seem savvy?)
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s4125600.htm

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 11, 2014 1:46:26 AM | 73

brian @ 49

so far its only sunnis being subject to this sort of manipulation thru the concept of Jihad.

that is highly unlikely.
But isn't the point I was making The article was yet another demonize the muslims piece

Jihad= mom and apple pie
Jihad = god and queen
Same poop, different toilet- as I like to say except I use the other word

Posted by: Penny | Nov 11, 2014 9:41:13 AM | 74

ISIS was formerly Alqaeda in Iraq...thats been known for ages, and links the events in syrias back thru OBL to the mujahadeen formed by Brzezinski in Afghanistan...

Posted by: brian | Nov 10, 2014 4:45:24 PM | 50


I wasn't the one selling ISIS from Syria moving to Iraq..
that was the product pushing of another
I am quite well aware of ISIS origins. AQ in iraq is only half of the story

Posted by: Penny | Nov 11, 2014 9:43:53 AM | 75

The article was yet another demonize the muslims piece

Posted by: Penny | Nov 11, 2014 9:41:13 AM | 75

You're wasting your time

Judging on what he posts here, Brian's A-OK with the whole "demonize the muslims" thingy

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 10:11:14 AM | 76

ISIS is America's Dream Rebel Army
Among those signing their name to this plan found within Brookings' "Which Path to Persia?" report, was Kenneth Pollack. Now, in efforts to overthrow the government of Syria, also a stated and integral part of undermining, isolating, and destroying Iran, Pollack has revealed another element of the plan - to create a full-scale proxy military force outside of Syria, then subsequently invading and occupying Syria with it.

In the report titled, "Building a Better Syrian Opposition Army: How and Why," Pollack cites the so-called "Islamic State" or "ISIS" as the ultimate impetus for expanded US intervention. However, upon looking at Pollack's proposal, it merely looks as if the US is using ISIS as a pretext to more overtly intervene in order to overthrow the government of Syria - not in fact neutralize ISIS.

After a considerable preamble assuring readers that the aim of creating a "better Syrian opposition army" would exclude sectarian extremists and result in the same "success" the US had in training the Iraqi army, the document explains:


...building a new Syrian army is best not done in Syria itself. At least not at first. The program would need the time and sanctuary to perform the necessary training, reorganization, sorting and socialization into a new Syrian army without the distractions and pressures of Syria itself. The Saudi offer to provide facilities to train 10,000 Syrian opposition fighters is one of reasonable possibility, although one of Syria’s neighbors would probably be preferable. Jordan already serves as training ground for America’s current training program and it would be an ideal locale to build a real Syrian army. However, Turkey could also conceivably serve that purpose if the Turks were willing.

Clearly, not only is this already being done as admitted by Pollack himself, it is being done on a scale already eclipsing Pollack's alleged plan - the only difference is it is being done through the use of sectarian extremists - not the imaginary, nonexistent secular professionals Pollack uses as a marketing gimmick to sell this scheme.

Posted by: the Persian Persuader | Nov 11, 2014 10:16:35 AM | 77

from Cartalucci

"The US, however, has failed in attempts to exclude Syrian, Iraqi, and Iranian forces from countering the ISIS threat."

That would as of this moment, constitute overall failure, not success. Eurasia and its allies do not view the decaying American-
Israeli oppressor as in control of many of its attempted moving parts, let alone consider the Empire formidable.
Speaking of Iran, it is working with Hamas now, criticized as "false opposition" by the hobbyists on this blog, accused even of letting
it be manipulated by Israel into helping foment the Gaza atrocity. Well since Israel helped Hamas along to offset the PLO at one time, I guess
once a pawn always a pawn in the world of Empire admiring hobbyists.
This is not how Iran sees it, nor how, even, Hezbollah sees it.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/hamas-hezbollah-relations-meshaal-normalization.html#

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 11, 2014 1:46:49 PM | 78


ISIS Fires American-Made Missiles At Syrian Army


ISIS received these weapons because the United States and NATO have been funding and arming ISIS from the very beginning. The U.S. has been arming the terrorists ever since 2010, when violence, shootings, and indiscriminate killings erupted in Syria (reported as “peaceful protests” in Western media). Before, during, and ever since, the United States and NATO have continued to support, train, arm, fund, and direct the death squads attempting to overthrow the Assad government.

From covert CIA assistance to actual coordination from death squad experts like Robert Ford, the United States and NATO were directly responsible for the Syrian crisis. By supporting the “rebels” early on, NATO was, in fact, supporting ISIS, since ISIS is nothing more than the current name for what was already in place in Syria when NATO embarked on its destabilization campaign in 2010.

Similar assistance was provided by Syria’s neighbors and fellow Middle Eastern countries with Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and a number of other Gulf State Feudal monarchies providing many of the terrorists and the money needed to pay and supply them. Jordan provided training grounds and logistics, Turkey provided the conduit and air support, and Israel provided air cover and intelligence.

Such coordination and military support continues in 2014, with the U.S. now engaging in air strikes that are aimed not at ISIS but at Syrian infrastructure.

In addition, many death squad fighters were recently re-armed by having arms passed from the United States to terrorist brigades that are presented as “moderate” by the mainstream media. These terrorists then immediately passed these arms to Jobhat al-Nusra.

While the revelations that ISIS forces have access to as well as possession of U.S.-made missiles are by no means shocking revelations, they are yet one more puzzle piece fitting together the tangled web of deception that the United States and NATO have woven in their effort to overthrow Bashar Al-Assad and the secular Syrian government.

Posted by: The Persian Persuader | Nov 11, 2014 3:27:58 PM | 79

more . . .

Western concern for religious minorities and the minimal provisions being made to "assist" them, is to maintain an increasingly tenuous plausible deniability. The feigned dithering of the West in the face of their growing mercenary force is to allow it to overrun the Iraqi government if possible, create more havoc within Syria, and spread the chaos to Lebanon.

ISIS is a standing army that requires state sponsorship - billions in cash, gear, weapons, and logistical, intelligence, and political support. While the West claims it has been handing over hundreds of millions to "moderates" in Syria, it has offered no plausible explanation as to who is providing ISIS and other Al Qaeda affiliates with even more resources enabling the extremists to displace these "moderates." There is no other explanation besides the fact that there were never any moderates to begin with and that the US, UK, France, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and even Israel, have from the beginning, intentionally created a mercenary army composed of Al Qaeda extremists of unprecedented dimensions and capabilities.

The direct war with Iran the West has for so long attempted to sell the world is now clearly being replaced with an immense proxy war. It will feign ignorance to the genesis of ISIS and the fact that no other explanation beyond state-sponsorship exists to explain its continued success on the battlefield. Token airdrops and even "airstrikes" against ISIS positions will admittedly do nothing to disrupt ISIS' ongoing campaigns across the region.

Posted by: The Persian Persuader | Nov 11, 2014 3:32:29 PM | 80

Do the unprecedented capabilities include overthrowing Jordan's government?

Jordan is alarmed by preachers spreading ISIS propaganda. Apparently, just issued a ban against any clergy criticism of the government or King as apostates.

So either the US believes Jordan can contain ISIS on its own, or does not care if Jordan is destabilized or the government overthrown, if that's what it takes to get Iran.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 11, 2014 7:03:38 PM | 81

Oh dont fret

The zionazis intend to get their fat greedy little blood-covered mits on Jordan too.

In fact they have done since the very day Transjordan was established, way back in 192[whatever]. Of course you'd know that if you knew any actual history.

Destruction of Jordan suits them perfectly since they probably want it sans current population.

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 7:15:42 PM | 82

There was a similar defeatist here who didn't realize Baathists teamed with religious jihadists early in the Iraq War to fight the US occupiers ((and insulted a poster who did) who talked about history.

Meanwhile a MOA nostalgic reference about Yinon.

Posted by: Cu Chulainn | Aug 25, 2014 5:34:10 AM | 37

The Yinon Plan presumable is same as Neocon/Netanyahu A clean break - securing the realm

Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.[1] Since Iraq's future could affect the strategic balance in the Middle East profoundly, it would be understandable that Israel has an interest in supporting the Hashemites in their efforts to redefine Iraq,including such measures as: visiting Jordan as the first official state visit, even before a visit to the United States, of the new Netanyahu government; supporting King Hussein by providing him with some tangible security measures to protect his regime against Syrian subversion; encouraging—through influence in the U.S. business community—investment in Jordan to structurally shift Jordan’s economy away from dependence on Iraq; and diverting Syria’s attention by using Lebanese opposition elements to destabilize Syrian control of Lebanon. .. Were the Hashemites to control Iraq, they could use their influence over Najf to help Israel wean the south Lebanese Shia away from Hizballah, Iran, and Syria. Shia retain strong ties to the Hashemites: the Shia venerate foremost the Prophet’s family, the direct descendants of which—and in whose veins the blood of the Prophet flows—is King Hussein.[1]

Of course it did not turn out that way.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 25, 2014 8:38:33 AM | 44

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 11, 2014 8:21:06 PM | 83

"Defeatist"

The language of retards

Especially coming from someone that spends so much time sending up smokescreens to try and distract from the obvious conspiracy that is the ISIS Empire proxy-force

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 8:41:05 PM | 84

Btw

If you want to know what the yinon plan actually says, just go and read the damn thing rather than copy and paste from one of this sites leading liars and misinformation artists posting on aug 25


http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/articles/article0005345.html

The zionazi infiltrated US Empire attacks on the muslim world began around the same time the yinon plan was published

The ZioNazis also commenced a series of invasions of its neighbour around the same time

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 8:49:10 PM | 85

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/11/world/meast/iran-russia-nuclear/index.html?hpt=wo_c1


Israel is not going to expand, it is going to contract. Defeatist conspiratology is soooo passee.

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 11, 2014 8:53:08 PM | 86

Like i said: a total retard

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 8:57:58 PM | 87

Israel has been expanding from the day it was created

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 8:59:14 PM | 88

Currently the Yinonites are winning. That may change in the future, who knows?

They have smashed several major countries which the ZioNazis consider to be serious enemies.


Some moron on the net shouting "defeatist" when its pointed out that several ZioNazis enemies have been totally defeated while others have and are being severly damaged, won't change that current reality


This is indisputable, and only a liar or a moron would dispute it.

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 9:10:53 PM | 89

"Currently the Yinonites are winning."

Let's consider what's happening carefullt. The plan may be in place, or something similar to it, but is it winning? I have my doubts (though I'm not surprised a fascist slug like you would think its a success).

There are a few, relatively small, groups of Jihadists who have taken control of a small part of Iraq and Syria. Where they have faced resistance, they lose. The only areas they managed to "control" were those that were inclined to accept them if only to see the Iraqi Army go. But now we have reports that their hold on these areas may diminish because the cannot properly govern. Without their support from the bad actors in the region and in the West, they would vanish instantly. They have no basis in the communities they are fighting over. They are a gaggle of young, brain-washed fanatics and mercenaries. They are in no way a social force or an ideology that could create a nation (of course their whole idea of them and their boosters presenting themselves as the "Islamic State" - is an effort to prove they are more than a gang. But they are not).

Other than that, a door has been open for the Resistance Axis ithroughout the region, overthrowing the order the US established during the GWOT.


  • Yemen is out of control. Shia socialists are again making their power felt and control the country nearly. This is not what the US wants to see there at all.

  • Hezzbollah has never been more active and is showing itself as a regional power and emerged from being seen as only a defender of their region. They have given Lebanon an active anti-US foreign policy.

  • Syria has certainly been damaged severely, but the government there has actually managed to establish a democratic legitimacy it never had, and has formed a strong national alliance of all the groups in the country. It is quite strong and getting stronger.

  • The Palestinians have never had more international support as they have recently - largely due to Israelis violence and illegal settlement building

  • Libya is a clear failure. Every future NATO aggression will be judged with the Libyan failure in sharp focus. Yes - NATO achieved destruction of the country, but it will never be able to use it as a showpiece for their R2P model. R2P is dead.

  • Iran as well has expanded its influence and become a key ally of the opposition in Bahrain, and Yemen, become closer than ever with Syria (actually having troops there could never have happened w/o this war) and has even become an ally with the Kurds in Iraq and Syria

  • Russia and presumably (behind-the-scenes) China have made clear where they stand and are actively involved. Their standing up of Syria while the USA and UK threatened to bomb was a watershed moment in post-Cold War history.

While I don't disagree that groups like ISIS and their backers in the NATO/Israel/GCC are still a huge threat, have succeeded in much destruction and can bring much much more, I see many ways in which the strategy of the Arab Spring has backfired completely. As we see in Syria, it has not succeeded in spliting societies along sectarian lines - it has instead split society between the fanatics and traitorously pro-Western elements and those patriotic elements be they Sunni, Shia, Kurd, or Christian.

The destruction is superficial and can be repaired. But the extent to which the Resistance Axis has come together to fight these different battles is far more important that the destruction that has been wrought.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 11, 2014 9:45:35 PM | 90

I should add Iraq: the split in Iraq seems unrepairable thanks to the US strategy of igniting a civil war between the country's two main sects. But it is showing that it can put its army to use. And when ISIS wears out its welcome, as they surely will, the Sunni areas will have to find new leaders, and these certainly won't be pro-US. They may even be secular Baathists and reject the Saudis (while accepting their money on the Egyptian model).

I think what should be watched for are for the Russians, Chinese. and Iranians to establish their own "Awakening Councils". Use them to boot out the fanatics, but promise to support the region economically and to help find a peace deal between them and the Iraqi Shia. The goal will be to establish an entity that rejects KSA and the West. Wether the country remains whole should be an open question, but the Resistance must reach out to the Sunnis there - the same sectors of Sunni society that have been open to fighting the fanatics in Syria.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 11, 2014 9:55:25 PM | 91

LOL, the gimp moron arrives to prove my point.

like i said earlier, only a liar or a moron would dispute the indisputable.

And here's the idiot gimp to prove me correct . . . .

I didnt read beyond line 1 of your sh*t cos its written by a moron so why bother wasting time reading the cyberdribblings of a moron

  • Iraq has been defeated and destroyed - it'll take at least 2 generations at an absolute minimum before Iraq could even hope to return to the levels of economic and social development that existed under Saddam

  • Libya has been utterly destroyed. Libya will probably never again even hope to approach the levels of economic and social development which Ghaddaffi built

  • Syria is not yet defeated, and may survive in something like its current form, but again it'll be at least a generation or 2 before they can even hope to get back to the level they were at before this started


    Like I said earlier: the yinonites may not win, but right now they are winning, and only a moron or a liar would dispute it. And indeed a moronic liar then proceeded to dispute it

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 10:06:21 PM | 92

Ps

All the above has been achieved without the Yinonites having to sacrifice so much as one Zionazi fingernail.

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 10:14:20 PM | 93

@hoarsewhisperer#74:

Thanks for the link. Interesting bit about Al Nusrah destroying the Armenian church where the major archives of the Armenian genocide were stored. That certainly would not be out of character for a group that has been protected by Israel and supplied by Turkey.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Nov 11, 2014 10:36:35 PM | 94

Pps

All statements regarding the timeframe, of all 3 named currently destroyed ZioNazi-perceived-enemies, to return to previous economic and social conditions, only apply if the situation for all 3 does not deteriorate further, and if they actually remain intact as nation states, in their current configuration


Imo it is likey that the situation for all 3 will worsen in the short-term at least, since the forces that are currently on the ground destroying them seem far from defeated

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 10:52:04 PM | 95

@95

Conspiracist defeatist!!!!!

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 11, 2014 10:55:13 PM | 96

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Nov 11, 2014 10:36:35 PM | 95

Yep. Embarrassingly obvious.
The Original Holohoaxers hate competition; especially from untermenchen (i.e. anyone and everyone except themselves).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 11, 2014 11:49:24 PM | 97

guest77 @ 91 said:

The destruction is superficial and can be repaired. But the extent to which the Resistance Axis has come together to fight these different battles is far more important that the destruction that has been wrought.

what an unbelievably callous thing to say. not to mention stupid. this could only be the view from an ivory tower. like that other fucking idiot who saw the tradgedy of fallujah as just a bunch of destroyed buildings. ignoring the vast areas of depleted uranium(and god knows what else) contamination that will adversely effect generations to come. ignoring the slaughter of hundeds of thousands including entire families thus shredding centuries of societal continuity and cohesion. ignoring the displacement of millions from their homelands including the culling of most of the professional and intellectual constituencies.

The destruction is superficial and can be repaired.

no, my 'savvy' little tactician, this brand of genocide/ecocide has permanently degraded and perverted the cradle of civilization.

Posted by: john | Nov 12, 2014 6:45:26 AM | 98

Got bored and decided for a laugh to read what the Gimp posted just to see how moronic it actually was.

Oh boy, it was far worse than even I could have predicted,

The Palestinians have never had more international support as they have recently - largely due to Israelis violence and illegal settlement building

What an utter asshole.

The life of the average Palestinian in Gaza is far far worse now than it was 10 years ago. Only a complete vacuous gobshite would try to to claim that the Palestinians have achieved some sort of "victory", moral or otherwise, over the ZioNazis.

Of course its easy for idelogical morons like the Gimp to make such claims. After all, the ZioNazi massacres of Palestinian men women and children don't affect these sort of idelogical morons one little bit, so its easy for the scum like The Gimp to stand on the sideline cheerleading the obvious losers, like the callous little sh*tbag he is.

For all the alleged "international support", it hasnt improved the lives of Palestinians one little bit.

But none of this matters to scum like Gimp - hes quite happy to sacrifice the lives of Palestinians just so he can have something to stand on the sidelines and cheer for, the sick bloodthirsty f*ck

Posted by: JMcC | Nov 12, 2014 7:09:33 AM | 99

Something for brian, and the author of The Wisdom of Crowds to contemplate, if only briefly...
Howard Gardner's theory of Multiple Intelligences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 12, 2014 10:07:47 AM | 100

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