Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 14, 2014

Masha Gessen Is A Fact-Challenged "State Propaganda Agent"

UPDATED below

Anti-Russia propagandist Marsha Gessen is a pet of neolibcons with regular space in Fred Hiatt's funny pages. Whenever she writes about Russia she gets, like the U.S. president, nearly every fact wrong. It is almost as if she has opinions and then creates facts to argue that her opinions are right and the only possible ones to have.

Ohh - the paragraph above is prejudice and slander?

But Gessen now confirms that she, in her own words, is not a journalist but a "state propaganda agent". She also confirms (again) that the facts she uses never cross the realm of reality.

Yesterday Mahsa Gessen stormed out of the taping of a radio show as she was upset about the professional background of one of the participants of the show. Explaining herself Gessen wrote:

The reason was that after a detailed preliminary discussion on topics and possible guests, the lineup had nothing in common with what was discussed and included a woman who was identified as a "Russian-American journalist." Neither the host nor the producers seemed to know anything about her - except that until earlier this yea she had worked for the Kremlin propaganda holding Russia Today and now is flogging a book supposedly critical of Putin. I have not read the book, but I do know that people who work for Russia Today are not journalists.
...
I tried to explain to [the producer] that my problem is not with a difference of opinion - it's with the misrepresentation inherent in calling state propaganda agents journalists.

So if people who work for state sponsored media, like Russia Today, are not journalists but "state propaganda agents" what then is Masha Gessen?

In September 2012, Gessen was appointed as director of the Russian Service for Radio Liberty, a U.S. government funded broadcaster based in Prague.

Besides her obviously total lack of self awareness Gessen, who did not name the person she ranted against but used slander like "that woman", was completely wrong about the facts. Anna Arutunyan, the journalist with whom state propaganda agent Masha Gessen would not discuss, now responded:

Since Masha Gessen decided to bring this up, I need to clarify some of her incorrect claims: I have never worked for RT. I have never worked for Voice of Russia. The quotes about Pussy Riot that she ascribes to me actually belong to Anton Fedyashin (all of which can be Googled). I worked at The Moscow News for ten years, until Dmitry Kiselyov took over RIA Novosti and work there became impossible due to my critical reporting. As I understand, Gessen was informed of who would be on the show well in advance (my info was on the Open Source website).

So Masha Gessen, through her most recent hissy fit, proved what the first paragraph said. She acknowledges that she is no journalist but, as she worked for a U.S. government sponsored media outlet, is a state propaganda agent. She also proved again that she has no factual base for her opinions and seemingly does not even care enough about those to do some two minute research.

But let me assure you that U.S. media will continue to love and pay her for her anti-Russian nonsense and for her oh-so-democratic calls for a popular coup against an elected Russian president with a 88% public approval rate.

UPDATE:

Gessen now posted a response to criticism of her rant. In it he gets, as you might have guessed, the "facts" wrong:

A few facts. I said Anna Arutunyan worked for the holding Russia Today. This holding owns the newspaper Moscow News. The newspaper has lived through many incarnations - it was most recently reinvented by the state as a hip offshoot of the propaganda machine, one that would kill the independent city magazine Bolshoi Gorod. The independent magazine has since essentially stopped to exist. Arutunyan worked there until earlier this year. What I said about VoR is that Arutunyan hosted an unconscionable show on Pussy Riot there right around the time Nadya and Masha were being shipped off to prison colonies. Here is a transcript of that show. http://voiceofrussia.com/.../radio.../70924886/90978067/. There is a lot more where that came from, like an article accusing those of us who were calling Putin authoritarian a few years back hysterical. So no, I am not confusing her with anyone. And no, Alexey Kovalev, being a critic of the regime when/if it suits you does not make a journalist of someone who works or has worked for the Kremlin's propaganda machine. And yes, that goes for you too

The facts marked bold are completely wrong. I dod not check the other claims.

There was and is no holding named Russia Today. The Moscow News was since 2007 partially owned by RIA Novosty. At the end of 2013 RIA Novosty was merged with the international radio service Voice of Russia to create Rossiya Segodnya (which can be verbally translated as "Russia Today" but is a different organization than the well known TV station Russia Today). The Moscow News was killed in that process and Anna Arutunyan left. The TV station Russia Today was and is largely independent but is since a few month ago under the same top management as Rossiya Segodnya.

Arutunyan never "hosted" a show on Voice of Russia. As one can clearly see from the transcript Gessen herself linked the host of the show was one Dmitry Babich and Arutunyan was one of five guests on a panel about Pussy Riot. Arutunyan has a total of six sentences in that panel and those are mostly about the church and the state. It is nothing nefarious about Pussy Riot in those.

Gessen again is completely away from any reality. She is even wrong about the content of the transcript she herself links to. Then again - as she claimed herself she is no journalist but a "State Propaganda Agent" for the United States. Facts then don't matter.

Posted by b on November 14, 2014 at 09:43 AM | Permalink

Comments

Russia's Putin to PM Abbott: 'Bring It On!' @G20 Summit

I love it! Recently Australia's PM Abbott declared he would "shirtfront" Putin personally when he shows up at the G20. Putin didn't come alone …

[posted in earlier thread]

Posted by: Oui | Nov 14, 2014 9:46:48 AM | 1

Not sure whats worse, Gessen's views or her face, yes google that.

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 14, 2014 10:17:31 AM | 2

Not only that - it appears Australian military intelligence, well, isn't:

http://johnhelmer.net/?p=12090

"A local military officer named Mark Binskin (right) made a disparaging reference to the capabilities of the Russian squadron. “Their confidence? One of them is an ocean-going tug. It’s just part of their operation. They are in international waters. They are allowed to do that. They are in our approaches and we will continue to surveil them with air and maritime assets.” The official started as a naval pilot, and after running operations in Iraq was promoted to head the Australian air force, then the combined Australian defence forces. "

What a bunch of clowns. Not surprising, really, given the US influence in Australian defense policy in no small part due to the testing and surveillance bases in West Oz.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 14, 2014 10:18:54 AM | 3

Never heard of Masha Gessen before, thanks b. She obviously has a different view of Putin than I do. Ok, that's her right. As far as Russia's right to oppose its encirclement by NATO, she's dead wrong, and so, becomes a useful propagandist for the West. Russia has every right to push back against NATO's attempt to throttle it.

Posted by: ben | Nov 14, 2014 10:27:10 AM | 4

I guess Gessen was afraid of having to debate with Arutunyan, somebody who was actually aware of the facts and willing to discuss them.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 14, 2014 10:44:06 AM | 5

i think the message is clear... if it is media money spent by the us gov't - that is not propaganda.. if it is media money spent by the russian gov't - that is propaganda.. i think that is what gessen is trying to say.. good to know, lol..

of geez. and now i see she has a number of articles in the wapo.. lol.. hard to get serious about something like this, or her.. b, i keep telling you these papers - nyt, wapo and wsj are propaganda rags and nothing more!

Posted by: james | Nov 14, 2014 11:20:46 AM | 6

Not that walking Penny Dreadful, Masha Gessen!?
I thought the name rang a bell... I recorded an episode of an ABC.au program called Big Ideas a few weeks ago and checked the recording. Sure enough, it was THE Masha Gessen - Putin hater and liar extraordinaire.

Here's the program. Highly recommended as an alternative to sticking one's fingers down one's throat if you need to empty your stomach urgently...
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2014/09/23/4092993.htm

Dual Citizen Masha was in Oz for the Melbourne Writers Festival to plug her new book (full of recycled codswallop) Man Without a Face, and to tell porkies about Putin to anyone who'd listen. The ABC, being very Australian, is always ready to help people make fools of themselves.
Masha got her/my money's worth.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 14, 2014 11:24:09 AM | 7

@Anonymous (Nov 14, 2014 10:17:31 AM | 2):

Not sure whats worse, Gessen's views or her face, yes google that.

I'd rather not look at her face right now; I just ate! ;-)

Posted by: Seamus Padraig | Nov 14, 2014 12:14:18 PM | 8

She's probably more popular with neoliberals than neocons. Don't neocons hate things like gay marriage?

Posted by: dh | Nov 14, 2014 1:08:01 PM | 9

hilarious !

Posted by: Nini | Nov 14, 2014 1:11:26 PM | 10

Must see:http://www.1tv.ru/news/leontiev/271824

Posted by: Alan | Nov 14, 2014 1:26:27 PM | 11

She's a sshh...Zionist Jew.What else is new?The most sexually confused serial lying criminals in the history of our planet.
But as they control the vertical and horizontal,saying obvious truths gets one in trouble.The age of bullsh*t continues unabated.

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 14, 2014 1:54:32 PM | 12

I have no idea if Gessen is "zionist". It is also not relevant to the threat. So leave that out of the comments please

---

"blt" is banned

Posted by: b | Nov 14, 2014 2:05:23 PM | 13

@dh #9:

No. The US State Department is now a fully neocon institution, and advocacy of gay rights has recently become State Department policy.

State Department Working With ‘Private Sector’ To Advance LGBT Equality Around The World

Posted by: Demian | Nov 14, 2014 2:50:49 PM | 14

I'm not sure why you're labelling this Masha Gessen as a pet of the neocons, from what I've gathered, she is a neo-con.
I assumed from the name, but wikipedia confirms it (I still wonder why wikipedia always makes this the first thing mentioned about any Jewish individual, but it clarifies things here)

The policy towards Russia over this has been petty, directionl-ess and generally consisting of a policy of a kind of reflexive hostility that resembles the attitude between two neighbouring countries with a violent past, (Ie Russia and Ukraine) not the kind of attitude one expects of a distant cosmopolitan super-power attempting to police a distant land. And needless to say, none of this was even handled with a view as to what was in the interest of the US. Everyone loses to some degree in the way the internal ethnic competition and conflict has been handled in Ukraine (Nor do I think the Russians totally innocent) but Russia gets hurt and that is all that matters to the neo-cons.

Jewish tribal hatred for Russia and Slavs in general is a big factor in the way Russia has been treated since the end of the cold war by the US. This arrogance and hatred for Russia and Europeans more generally held by a massively disproportionately Jewish foreign policy and media elite was most finely expressed by Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland.

Posted by: Altai | Nov 14, 2014 3:00:26 PM | 15

@13 That may well be Demian. But gay marriage remains a hard sell with the Christian Right....and those people do vote.

Posted by: dh | Nov 14, 2014 3:14:33 PM | 16

@Altai #14:

I am aware of English and Polish "tribal hatred" of Russia, but was unaware of "Jewish tribal hatred for Russia and Slavs in general".

Posted by: Demian | Nov 14, 2014 3:15:27 PM | 17

@Altai - Gessen is not a full neo(lib)con. She isn't grown up enough for that. She is a tool or pet.

"Jewish tribal hatred for Russia and Slavs" is ethnic propaganda nonsense aka racism.

The are Jews in Russia, some doing well and Russians in Israel, some doing well. Some half of the Jews in Israel are of Slav heritage. In general the relation between Orthodox Russians (the majority) and Jewish Russians (a small minority) has always been quite friendly.

So please stop such slander here.

Posted by: b | Nov 14, 2014 3:41:59 PM | 18

@17, b, with all due respect how would you characterize the Russophobic attitude which seems to follow Jewish (by ancestry) academics who spout the kind of racism towards Russia
which the MSM accepts with glee?.....

Posted by: georgeg | Nov 14, 2014 4:09:35 PM | 19

I have no idea if Gessen is "zionist". It is also not relevant to the thread. So leave that out of the comments please


LOL Friday Nov 14th 2014 must have been designated "Offizielle Komödie Nacht" in the Frieheit und Hansestadt

Posted by: Cloud9 | Nov 14, 2014 4:55:56 PM | 20

"Jewish tribal hatred for Russia and Slavs" certainly is racist.

It certainly would be a good thing is they ceased with the hatred for Russia and Slavs

Posted by: Cloud9 | Nov 14, 2014 5:00:29 PM | 21

They became a "small minority" as a result of the most disloyal moving to Israel. (Palestine)

Posted by: truthbetold | Nov 14, 2014 6:14:15 PM | 22

@b #17

Relations between Jewish and Orthodox Russians haven't always been that rosy. Dostoevsky's apocalyptic anti-Jewish screeds expressed genocidal sentiments. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion hoax has had its origin traced to the Ukraine. The Black Hundredist (radical Russian Nationalist Czarist) movement was extremely anti-Jewish, along with everything else deemed impure by the Orthodox-Czarist nexus. Black Hundredist tactics and ideology are believed to have influenced the Nazis through Baltic Germans such as Alfred Rosenberg, and through Germany's Russian contacts in the Aufbau Vereinigung.

The early Soviet era saw de-Russification as official ideology, as nationalist sentiments were deemed tools of counterrevolution. The postwar era saw a rising suspicion of Jews that led to some purging. Some of that was likely due to the rise of Orthodox-Russian patriotic sentiment that had been fostered during WWII (Stalin himself went back to the church). Of course, the upsurge in the Zionist movement didn't help things either.

The Russian Awakening is not without its risks for Russian Jews. There is potential for backlash over the preponderantly Jewish background of the oligarchs and a potential for associating Jews with Russia's now-discredited liberal movement. If affirmation of Russian identity yields a positive result (Russia parries the blows from the neoliberal establishment, prospers, and maintains a sphere of influence) the risks are lower. If a siege mentality sets in after setbacks, the risk of hard ethnic nationalism and all of its baggage taking hold are higher.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 14, 2014 6:16:33 PM | 23

With all due respect...it would be nice if they ceased hating non-jews in general...and Christians in particular. And no. Co-opting WASP names, mannerisms and traditions (boola-boola) is NOT admiration. Especially when its paired with making sure those sons and daughters of goyim are the cannon fodder for greater ZIO interests. Nah. It's hilarious to claim racism when one makes the observation that non-jew whites, Russians and Slavs are being systematically replaced, diminished and exterminated by J-mafia tribesmen. And furthermore, to call this obvious FACT "anti-Semitic" is an affront to every truly-Semitic Palestinian Nuttyyahoo was unable to exterminate.

I have been following this site for a long time -- without posting -- and the contortions and rationale twisting criticism of ZIOs (aka the Tribe) as the last-bastion of rabid boogy-men is amusing if it wasn't such obvious shilling for J-mafia brownie points. FYI. It's a waste of time. Soon they won't be able to help them selves. Let alone shabbos-goyim.

Posted by: giddy | Nov 14, 2014 6:23:04 PM | 24

Resistance TV

RT.com (Russia)
PressTV (Iran)
TeleSur English (ALBA)
CNTV (China)

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 14, 2014 6:43:19 PM | 25

@giddy #23

"I have been following this site for a long time -- without posting..."

Do us all a favor and resume that mode.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 14, 2014 6:59:27 PM | 26

@Thirdeye #22:

Very nice post and analysis, although the Russia of today is different from Dostoyevsky's Russia. And yes, Jews were overrepresented in the early Bolshevik party, which carried out a policy of suppressing Russian identity.

Posted by: Demian | Nov 14, 2014 7:08:16 PM | 27

a photo of a plade shooting a missile at MH17 has surfaced
background to the MH17 photo sent by email from an ATC named George Beatle
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/759835

already Brown Moses is debunking it
http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/proof-the-russian-tv-satellite-photo-of-mh17-is-fake/

Posted by: brian | Nov 14, 2014 7:29:53 PM | 28

despite the fact the Brown Moses is a proven propagandist, on the subject of the satellite photo he's probably correct

Posted by: Cloud9 | Nov 14, 2014 7:51:43 PM | 29

@Demian #26

I think we need to be clear that de-Russification was a way of tempering the nationalist sentiments of all national minorities. But I'm sure it was seen by more nationalist Russians as a campaign against Russian identity by Jewish Bolsheviks.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 14, 2014 8:21:12 PM | 30

I think we need to be clear that de-Russification was a way of tempering the nationalist sentiments of all national minorities. But I'm sure it was seen by more nationalist Russians as a campaign against Russian identity by Jewish Bolsheviks.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 14, 2014 8:21:12 PM | 29

Suuuure

thats why, upon seizing power, they almost immediately passed a law protecting Jews from persecution, while simultaneously immediately commencing the persecution of Orthodox

Posted by: Cloud9 | Nov 14, 2014 8:28:16 PM | 31

Why does nearly EVERY discussion or topic "B" starts here, has to degenerate into a discussion on "Jews" and "Zionists" by posters?????

So sick of this crap...and apparently so is B.

Posted by: RC | Nov 14, 2014 8:46:17 PM | 32

Posted by: RC | Nov 14, 2014 8:46:17 PM | 30

b's rule about smearing Jews is quite specific.
It boils down to (my interpretation)...

'Don't smear an individual because he or she is a Jew, and for no other reason.'

It's nice and simple; and perfectly reasonable.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 14, 2014 11:01:05 PM | 33

Thirdeye | Nov 14, 2014 6:16:33 PM | 22,

You may have missed this article: Stalin's Jews by Sever Plocker in Ynet: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

Posted by: MRW | Nov 15, 2014 8:31:16 AM | 34

The fact that Gessen is able to travel throughout the world and spread her type of hatred is indicative of the power held by the puppet masters.

Posted by: georgeg | Nov 15, 2014 9:56:31 AM | 35

To Thirdeye -- De rein. Let's not have a variety of perspectives. Am perfectly content to cease posting or supporting this site. Carry on with your circle-jerk.

Posted by: giddy | Nov 15, 2014 10:15:17 AM | 36


If Gessen wasn't a Zionist,she wouldn't be quoted and have the opportunities to impugn Russia,and yes,the historical memory of pogroms and hatred towards Jews expressed by the denizens of the citizens of all the central European nations,and even France,with Vichy,and Dreyfus,are engrained in the Ziomind.
I'm glad some see my point,others are either naive, part of the borg,or are of the see no evil,hear no evil contingent.Sad.

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 15, 2014 12:06:40 PM | 37

16;Ok,Poland ,right next to Russia,and historical enemies.But GB,why would they be Russophobes?Where does the phobia come from,Crimea?No,it comes from the media,as in America,and both exclusively(how that happened needs a good expose) controlled by Neoliberal Zionist capitalists.

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 15, 2014 12:13:10 PM | 38

As far as the satellite photo showing the jet shooting at MH17,there is not a word today in the MSM about it.Wouldn't they splash it all over the front pages if it was a forgery?Even at AW,and the Graun,I saw nothing.Hmmm...maybe it is true.
And the hoax of the POTEOZ;Who called it a forgery?The Eastern European Rabbinical Council?If it was a Russian or other nations call,I'd give it a little credence,but how can perps try and judge their own case?
I'm sorry if I deal in logic,and my aim in this world is promotion of peace,love and understanding,but the Zionists want no part of that,its obvious from their actions.

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 15, 2014 12:48:56 PM | 39

Bacon lettuce and tomato is banned?My Jewish son in law likes it.Really.

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 15, 2014 12:54:13 PM | 40

OMG!!! I just finished reading an article in The Guardian about the G20 summit which, naturally, was filled with the usual propaganda and inuendo regarding Russia/Ukraine.

But then this line jumped out at me:

In the meeting, Putin referred back to the coup earlier this year, but Cameron said the focus should be on the future rather than a dispute about the merits of past events.

That's right! For the first time I can remember, The Graun actually used the word 'coup' to refer to the coup. I couldn't believe it! Most of their commentators/contributors had staunchly insisted that such a description was mere conspiracy theory. I had to read the text a few to make sure they weren't somehow being sarcastic or ironic. It appears not.

A sudden change of editorial policy? A freudian slip? A subtle act of newsroom rebellion that escaped the censors? I am still not sure what to make of this.

Posted by: Seamus Padraig | Nov 15, 2014 1:54:22 PM | 41

@37 The BBC, surprisingly, do mention the story...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30064374

The MSM would probably prefer to ignore it. Perhaps screaming Fake!! would give the story more exposure..

Posted by: dh | Nov 15, 2014 2:02:49 PM | 42

Someone else picking on Gessen with more details on the facts she is getting wrong or making up:

Masha Gessen’s Facebook Fuckup

Posted by: b | Nov 15, 2014 2:10:26 PM | 43

@dahoit #38:

See The Eternal Collapse of Russia

The Crimean War of the 1850s, pitting both the French and the British against the Russians, sparked an especially intense British animus against a marauding Russian bear, pitted against the regal British lion, as the political cartoonists of the day had it. (Or a meek lion, as some illustrators sketched the scene. In one such cartoon, a massive bear, a Russian soldier’s cap on its head, sits atop a prostrate Persian cat, a lion looking on helplessly in the background.) Negative images of Russia seeped into British literature. George Stoker wrote an anti-Russian travelogue, With the Unspeakables, drawn from the Russo-Turkish war of 1877–1878. That book, in turn, may have supplied an impetus for his older brother, Bram, who later wrote of a pair of fantastical novels, Dracula and The Lady of the Shroud, that can be read as conjuring an "Eastern” or Slavic threat to England. In the end, of course, Count Dracula has his throat slashed and is stabbed dead in the heart.

Granted, the British Empire was a promiscuous slanderer of its motley rivals—consider the aspersions regularly cast toward the French. Still, British feelings toward Russia were notably raw. The historian J. H. Gleason, in his 1950 book The Genesis of Russophobia in Great Britain, characterized the nineteenth-century English public’s "antipathy toward Russia” as the "most pronounced and enduring element in the national outlook on the world abroad.” The sentiment, Gleason concluded, was concocted by a manipulative, imperial-minded elite—and was off base, anyway, since Britain’s foreign policy was actually "more provocative than Russia’s” in this period. Others concur. "The world champion imperialists of modern history, the British, were in a permanent state of hysteria about the chimera of Russia advancing over the Himalayas to India,” Martin Malia observed in his 1999 book Russia under Western Eyes.

So, the short answer is that the maritime power Britain saw the continental power Russia as the main obstacle to its hegemony. History is repeating itself, with the US playing the role of Britain.

Why don't you place spaces between sentences, BTW? That bizarre habit makes your posts hard to read.

Posted by: Demian | Nov 15, 2014 2:51:02 PM | 44

the British, were in a permanent state of hysteria about the chimera of Russia advancing over the Himalayas to India,”

It's always been about Empire.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 15, 2014 3:37:09 PM | 45

@Cloud9 #31

You're confusing equal opportunity suppression of overt religiosity (including Muslims and Jews) with selective persecution based on religious background.

@MRW #34

The article illustrates that Stalin's terror was an equal opportunity enterprise. Baltic Germanics were also recruited to Cheka for tasks related to stamping out the vestiges of the imperial regime. They had fewer inhibitions about such tasks than did ethnic Russians.

@Demian #44

Interesting perspective on Dracula!

The same period that saw the rise of Russophobia saw the rise of Sinophobia - the Yellow Peril. That was tempered only by the inability of the Qing Dynasty to defend itself against the west.

Winston Churchill's Russophobia makes some of his boneheaded strategic blunders in WWII more understandable. His vision of the postwar world with Britain in control of eastern Europe, leading a new Cordon Sanitaire facing the Soviet Union, drove his Mediterranean/Balkan strategy. He was forced to let go of it when the Italian campaign ground to a bloody halt in 1943. In the end, postponing the campaign in Northern Europe for the sake of the Mediterranean only put the Soviet Union in a stronger position at the end of the war.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 15, 2014 4:30:56 PM | 46


@Cloud9 #31

You're confusing equal opportunity suppression of overt religiosity (including Muslims and Jews) with selective persecution based on religious background.

I'm not confusing anything. If anyone is confusing anything here it's you, and deliberately so imho.

The quote above is a fact-free, but very convenient for you, assertion that I would have to guess, in the complete absence of any evidence offered by you, that you just made-up seconds before you wrote it. You seem to be really good at just plain old making up whatever you think will con people into accepting your evidence-free viewpoint. (Having had plenty of "discussions" with Zionists, I notice that they behave in the exact same fashion - making evidence free assertions that they hope no one will bother to question)

So, you are now claiming "equal opportunity suppression" of all religions in early Soviet times (1919 to 1930)

So provide the information please that would back up this so far fact-free convenient assertion of yours.

At the very least you need to answer 2 questions, and provide reliable evidence for your answers, :

  • Where and when were Synagogues burned to the ground by the disprotionatly Jewsih Bolshevicks?

  • Where and when were Rabbis regularly attacked and murdered by the disprotionatly Jewsih Bolshevicks?

Time to put up or shut up, my evidence-free friend. Evidence is required for these so-far evidence-free assertions of yours.

I think we need to be clear that de-Russification was a way of tempering the nationalist sentiments of all national minorities.
Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 14, 2014 8:21:12 PM | 29"

"We" don't "need" to be "clear" about any such thing at all. It may be that "de-[Orthodox]-isation was a way of tempering the nationalist sentiments of all national minorities. " - but I'm pretty damn sure that there was no corresponding "De-Judification" campaign.

So why wasn't there? If what you say has any truth in it at all, (and I'm pretty sure there isn't, since I'm pretty sure you just made it up on the spot) then there certainly should be plenty of evidence of burnt-out synagogues, murdered Rabbis etc in early Soviet times (1919 to 1930).

So where is that evidence?


It is a verifiable fact that one of the first laws the disportionately Jewsih Bolshevicks passed were laws protecting the rights of Jews and at the same time the Bolshevicks were viciously atttacking all other religions in Russia. That fact doen't gell at all with the evidence-free claims you made @29 and 46

Posted by: cloud9 | Nov 15, 2014 6:58:22 PM | 47

@MRW #34

The article illustrates that Stalin's terror was an equal opportunity enterprise.

Yet another fact-free & evidence-free assertion by you - and it's completely at odds with the content of the article in question.

Have you no shame at all?

Posted by: cloud9 | Nov 15, 2014 7:00:34 PM | 48

In July 1918 Trotsky, (born Levi Davidovich Bronstein) announced, via the newspaper Izvestia, that all "anti-Semites" were to be shot.

As far as I know Mr Bronstein did not define "anti-Semitism" in any comprehensive legalistic fashion, so it's highly likely that it probably would have included simply highlighting the disproportionate representation of Jews amongst the Bolshevik leadership

There were no corresponding announcements by Trotsky, nor indeed by anyone, that all "anti-Orthodox" were to be shot.

Nor were there any corresponding announcements by Trotsky that all "anti-Islamites" were to be shot.

Nor were there any corresponding announcements by Trotsky that all "anti-Ukrainians" were to be shot.

Nor were there any corresponding announcements by Trotsky that all "anti-Chechens" were to be shot.

Only a law saying that "anti-Semites" were to be shot.


Trotsky, a Bolshevik revolutionary on the run, had no problems when he entered America. Which is very curious to say the least.



Posted by: cloud9 | Nov 15, 2014 7:32:20 PM | 49

@cloud9 #47:

It is a verifiable fact that one of the first laws the disportionately Jewsih Bolshevicks passed were laws protecting the rights of Jews and at the same time the Bolshevicks were viciously atttacking all other religions in Russia.
I find this issue very interesting, because my background is White Russian. If you could give any links verifying this (they can be in Russian or German), I would much appreciate that.

Posted by: Demian | Nov 15, 2014 7:33:04 PM | 50

Izvestia.ru suffered some serious internet downtime in 1918

Posted by: cloud9 | Nov 15, 2014 7:48:34 PM | 51

@Demin#50

Don't hold your breath. He's making it up for his "anti-Russian-Jew-Bolshevik" narrative.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 15, 2014 8:11:02 PM | 52

@cloud9 #51:

Yandex is your friend:

«Активные антисемиты караются по законам СССР смертной казнью» (Active antisemites are punishable by the laws of the USSR with the death penalty)

25 июля 1918 года Россия стала первой страной в мире, которая ввела уголовное наказание за антисемитизм, погромы и нацизм

Октябрьская революция в числе первых своих актов провозгласила основные гражданские свободы, которых в то время не было даже у большинства развитых стран — свобода вероисповедания, равноправие женщин, право на аборты, всеобщие равные права избирателей, отмена наказания за гомосексуализм, и так далее.

Среди них было и провозглашение равноправия всех национальностей. В первую очередь это положение коснулось одной из самых угнетаемых наций России – евреев


25 July 1918 Russia became the first country in the world, which introduced criminal penalties for anti-Semitism, pogroms and Nazism.

The October revolution among his first acts announced basic civil liberties, which at that time was not even in most developed countries - freedom of religion, equality of women, the right to abortion, universal equal rights of voters, the abolition of the punishment for homosexuality, and so on.

Among them was the proclamation of the equality of all nationalities. The first nationality affected by this was one of the most oppressed Nations of Russia - Jews

Posted by: Demian | Nov 15, 2014 8:12:58 PM | 53

@cloud9 #56:

"JEWS" is NOT a Nationality
That remark shows that you don't know much about the USSR, and suggests that you don't know Russian, which makes me wonder, why do you care about the oppression of Orthodox by the Bolsheviks? Anyway, this Russian language link explains the meaning of "nationality" in the USSR: Пятая графа.

I am not going to respond to your other points since you seem more interested in contradicting people than in having a productive discussion. The article I quoted from backed up the main assertion you were making, yet all you did was mock it.

Posted by: Demian | Nov 15, 2014 10:06:38 PM | 54

@cloud9 #60:

No problem. You have my apologies as well. I guess that remark would have been more appropriate on a tech forum. I just wanted to make the joke of substituting "Yandex" for "Google".

Posted by: Demian | Nov 15, 2014 11:30:20 PM | 55

Here's Masha Gellen's scientific assessment of Russia's demographic challenge. Apparently what Russia needs is an Obama:

If this is true—if Russians are dying for lack of hope, as they seem to be—then the question that is still looking for its researcher is, Why haven’t Russians experienced hope in the last quarter century? Or, more precisely in light of the grim continuity of Russian death, What happened to Russians over the course of the Soviet century that has rendered them incapable of hope? In The Origins of Totalitarianism Hannah Arendt argues that totalitarian rule is truly possible only in countries that are large enough to be able to afford depopulation. The Soviet Union proved itself to be just such a country on at least three occasions in the twentieth century—teaching its citizens in the process that their lives are worthless. Is it possible that this knowledge has been passed from generation to generation enough times that most Russians are now born with it and this is why they are born with a Bangladesh-level life expectancy? Is it also possible that other post-Soviet states, by breaking off from Moscow, have reclaimed some of their ability to hope, and this is why even Russia’s closest cultural and geographic cousins, such as Belarus and Ukraine, aren’t dying off as fast? If so, Russia is dying of a broken heart—also known as cardiovascular disease.

Posted by: Nana2007 | Nov 15, 2014 11:53:51 PM | 56

@cloud9 #55

It wasn't called Nazism in Russia, but Nazism does have its roots in imperial Russia.

http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/45120/frontmatter/9780521845120_frontmatter.pdf

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 16, 2014 12:04:18 AM | 57

The complete work from post #63

http://www.thechristianidentityforum.net/downloads/Russian-Nazism.pdf

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 16, 2014 12:10:21 AM | 58

To cloud9 @ 67 --

Bad ideas and the language to match. It's the Jews fault for fight back that the Nazi's emerged? Its... most... shall we say, colorful?

Anti-Semitic laws forced European Jews into trade and finance. And then, of course, they're vilified for being heavily into trade and finance. Such blind hypocrisy, the original blame the victim game.

Posted by: rufus magister | Nov 16, 2014 1:46:04 AM | 59

@cloud9 #54

You haven't provided any evidence for the assumptions underlying your two questions, to wit: that there was systematic persecution of Orthodox Russians by "Jewish Bolsheviks." If somebody had the opposite axe to grind, they could point to the Zionist Jews sent to Siberia, including the soon-to-be-terrorist Menachem Begin. But they were suppressed as Zionists, not as Jews. Likewise, Orthodox Czarists were suppressed as Czarists, not as Orthodox Russians.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 16, 2014 2:21:06 AM | 60

Posted by: cloud9 | Nov 16, 2014 2:10:40 AM | 69
To falsify history, you have it start at the wrong point.

It starts here
Anti Jewish Progroms in the Russian Empire

A much bloodier wave of pogroms broke out from 1903 to 1906, leaving an estimated 2,000 Jews dead and many more wounded, as the Jews took to arms to defend their families and property from the attackers. The 1905 pogrom against Jews in Odessa was the most serious pogrom of the period, with reports of up to 2,500 Jews killed

Yes, the Bolsheviks put an end to that. It did not make life safe in the Soviet Union and it did not change society completely. So, of course anti-semitism in Russia crept up from time to time. But if it had not been for the Soviet Union - the possibility to flee to the Soviet Union, the Nazis would have managed to kill a lot more.
There is a history of anti-semitism in the US, too, by the way. And the rescue of Jews was subject to immigration quotas.

The history of World War I, which, you are right, is the root cause of the German catastophe, starts with Wilhelm I.'s decision not to follow through on Bismarck's pact of neutrality with Russia. Basically, German nationalists found a way to continuously dig themselves deeper into the hole they found themselves in. From a good position in 1870 and a reparation treaty with France that called for revenge.
Yes, I know, to understand German nationalist sentiment, you have to start with Napoleon. They should have learnt from him, though, not to fight with Russian winter.

Posted by: somebody | Nov 16, 2014 4:15:39 AM | 61

@cloud9 #72

In other words, you decline to provide any evidence for your claim that "Bolshevik Jews" persecuted Orthodox Russians. The reason you provide no evidence is that your claim is a lie.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Nov 16, 2014 5:11:19 AM | 62

Its hard to miss the level of collusion that exists within J-mafia. Or that it has a purpose. And it's why people are compelled to identify person's (like Marsha Gessen) as jewish vs non-jewish. It's called self-preservation. Because the J-mafia does not want western societies -- European or Russian or non-ZIO-Americans-- to be strong and solid and virtuous. They WANT us weak and corruptible and indebted to the J-mafia. To secure Zionist self-interests. Masha may be 3rd string. But J-mafia fields a very large team. And they play with too many men on the field. Best to know when they're coming at you. Before its too late.

Masha Gessen and her ilk say they "do what they do" for our best interests. And once they've reconfigured society according to their tastes and practices they will at last accept themselves as the superior beings they profess to be. And finally they'll be at the tippy-top. Oh goody! Mummy will be so pleased.

To show some gratitude for all Masha's "do-good-ery" and demonstrate reciprocity henceforth I proclaim to know what's best for her and them. I will take the J-mafia's burden upon my shoulders and instruct them as to their shortcomings and conduct them in the ways of righteousness. For their own good. And because I have learned so VERY much in observing the J-mafia. They should be confident I will use the same methods they used on me and mine. Upon them. For their own good.

Posted by: giddy | Nov 16, 2014 6:38:00 PM | 63

@guest $45:

Here's another piece which argues that the main Russopobes are the Poles and the English:

Deconstructing Russophobia - Vladimir Golstein

Gold argues that the third main source of Russophobia is Jews who left Russia during the pogroms. He also says that "Ukraine" is a word of Polish origin. So the "border" in question is viewed not from Russia, but from Poland: to the Poles, the Ukraine is the "edge of civilization".

Posted by: Demian | Nov 19, 2014 6:37:16 PM | 64

The comments to this entry are closed.