Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 14, 2014
Syria: UK Still Wants “Regime Change”

The British government does not get it. There is no reasonable alternative to the current government of Syria. The Syrian National Council is a joke:

Over the weekend, the Syrian National Coalition failed to failed to agree on a prime minister during a summit in Turkey. A member of the SNC said the biggest dispute at the Istanbul meeting centred around a split between the favoured candidates of vital funders Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Everyone seems to acknowledge that those idiots should not be allowed to run Syria. Why then still go for regime change?

Britain’s top diplomat says the US-led military campaign in Syria against Islamic State militants must be followed by regime change in Damascus, the seat of power for President Bashar al-Assad.

In an interview, Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said Britain would help the US to stand up a proxy army in Syria that would be capable of fighting both Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, and President Assad’s forces.

The CIA has been building up a proxy army in Syria for three years. It has supplied it with all kinds of weapons including hundreds of anti-tank missiles. Other “allies” have supplied Chinese anti-air missiles. The CIA proxy army, the Free Syrian Army, is in disarray. It has allied itself with extreme Jihadist forces and the weapons it received have been taken by the Jihadists and have recently been used to shoot down Iraqi army helicopters.

What Hammond now at least admits is that the forces he wants to train are mercenaries. People who fight for money and not for some higher interests:

Hammond argues that regular funding is key to building a cohesive rebel force in Syria. “They will be employees. We’re not talking about training a bunch of freelancers who go off on their pick-up trucks and we never see them again,” he says, noting that the FSA already has organized units that draw a regular salary.

He estimates that IS fighters are paid between $300 and $600 a month, which provides a yardstick for funding a proxy army. “The wage bill for a force built up eventually to 50,000 is not going to break the bank,” he says.

I am confident that it will be nearly impossible to find enough Syrians willing to continue to fight to fill another 50,000 men army. The war has been going on for some years and people get tired of it. And what is the difference here between employees and freelancers? Would “employee” mercenaries be more loyal to Hammond than “freelance” mercenaries? Does he think he can pay those Islamic State fighters a bit more than their Caliph pays them and they will forget about the ideology and do his bidding?

Is Hammond really that naive?

Comments

Sticking to the original game plan, despite exposure of every layer of deception. Career-wise and money-wise, Western warlords get only positive feedback for naked imperialism and aggressive war.

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 14 2014 17:48 utc | 1

Is British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond really that naive? Yes.
“The wage bill for a force built up eventually to 50,000 is not going to break the bank,” he says.
Fifty thousand fighters at $600 a month equals $30 million a month, plus logistical support etc. Meanwhile, domestically, the steady drumbeat of austerity and belt tightening because of programs which are “unaffordable”.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 14 2014 17:53 utc | 2

So money is no object. Why not offer the IS fighters double what they get now to rejoin the ‘cohesive rebel force’?

Posted by: dh | Oct 14 2014 17:57 utc | 3

What a reptile. The fact that he can say shit like that and somehow it sounds almost normal. Expected even… Psycopathy, I’d put my head on a block… But its everywhere now… In fact if youre not one, youl’d feel pretty lonely in politics…

Posted by: Dan | Oct 14 2014 19:05 utc | 4

Kissinger, the unindicted war criminal, has been pushing for a mercenary band of World police for a long time.
http://schema-root.org/region/americas/north_america/usa/government/officials/henry_kissinger/
Blackwater/Academi or whatever the present descriptor is, is our future. Of course we will have to maintain our present Armed Forces for training. Certainly we shouldn’t expect contractors to foot that bill.

Posted by: Ben Franklin | Oct 14 2014 19:07 utc | 5

Hammond’s statement is ludicrous and against all International law, Russia, China and Iran are following this debacle very closely, and it is to be hoped they have some countermeasures in hand against this blatant breach of International law. Of course US, UK, China and Russia are above International law for all time as veto wielding members of the security council, but this is pure aggression on the part of US/UK which must be met with the appropriate kinetic response.
It is to be hoped that Assad and Iran can also put a spanner in the Saudi and Turkish plans, even in a clandestine manner.

Posted by: harry law | Oct 14 2014 19:15 utc | 6

The nimrods of Western hegemony are conditioned by the fact that until recently they created “reality” while everyone else was only allowed to respond to their machinations. It is ludicrous to expect them to behave in anything but a dogmatic way.
While they are caught up in their own delusions a new reality is unfolding, the Islamic State, who are, even while being attacked with bombs and bombast, continuing their conquest of the region.
The Western disconnect with this new reality will only increase as the Idea of Islam actually being able to defeat the Hegemon spreads and nothing anyone does seems to alter that fact. This is an Idea who’s time has come and ideas are impossible to defeat with armies.
The only thing the US or the UK will get from the removal of Assad is a very large bill and more defeat as their proxies are either eliminated by or incorporated into the Islamic State.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 14 2014 19:23 utc | 7

British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond – stooge for the international bankers based out of the usa/uk… these folks don’t care about international law.. they don’t care about the welfare of the lives of people.. they care about whether they are serving their paymasters or not to the best of their abilities… blair, obama – all of them – it is the same deal.. they are all war criminals, or inciting others to war crimes while thinking it is perfectly okay to do this..
thanks for a reminder about just how fucked up and subversive our western leaders are at this point in history..

Posted by: james | Oct 14 2014 19:50 utc | 8

Libya is a portrait of the further disorder that would await Syria. As bad as it is now, it would only get worse if Bashar Al Assad goes. Some people just can’t get that, it’s not that we are in love with Assad but the alternative would be worse.

Posted by: Fernando | Oct 14 2014 20:04 utc | 9

“The British government does not get it. There is no reasonable alternative to the current government of Syria?”
b, the British government “gets it”
They know there is no reasonable alternative.
That’s the entire idea- Chaos. Chaos. Chaos
Out of chaos will come the new order the psycho elites have been planning
Order out of chaos is as old as…. I don’t know
It’s an old old game and Britain and co are very adept at that.

Posted by: Penny | Oct 14 2014 20:04 utc | 10

the usa wants regime change too, but they just don’t come out and say it the same as it doesn’t sell with the public as well as the fearmongering rattling ISIS on the screen 24/7..
@9 fernando – that is exactly where this is headed – libya version 2 or whatever.. the air campaign is just the first part… stay tuned for parts 2, 3 and etc..

Posted by: james | Oct 14 2014 20:23 utc | 11

simple: the imperial masters in Telaviv/Washington dont want Assad…they dont care about Syria any more than the power hungry SNC

Posted by: brian | Oct 14 2014 21:30 utc | 12

the UK regime wants to arm an insurgency in someone elses country, and the ICC isnt interested? nor are all those internationakl law experts in all those universities, nor is the antiwar movement, nor the media…nor….

Posted by: brian | Oct 14 2014 21:33 utc | 13

Definitely the international community wants regime change. A stable puppet would be ideal, but they accept chaos as well. The choir is steady: Assad is a brutal dictator, he used chemical weapons and he must go (where Saddam and Muammar went). Then on to the Mullahs, aren’t they an islamic state? Wow – what a threat! And then on to Moscow, they have a new Hitler as president.
Just found this Putin-quote on RiaNovosti:
“Today it is important that people in different countries and continents understand what horrible ramifications can be brought about by confidence in one’s being exceptional, by attempts to achieve doubtful geopolitical aims as well as by neglect of basic human rights and morality. We must do everything to avoid such tragedies in the future,” Putin added (talking about the resurrection of nazism).
And Hammond is a ziopuppet, payed well and may he rot in hell.

Posted by: slirs | Oct 14 2014 21:38 utc | 14

I doubt that Hammond is naive. He must know the history of the “moderate” Syrian opposition over the past three years and therefore understand the impracticality of the plan to overthrow the Assad government by supplying the Free Syrian Army. No doubt there is a plan for regime change in Syria but since Hammond knows the public would not accept the plan he offers this smokescreen.

Posted by: Roger Milbrandt | Oct 14 2014 21:42 utc | 15

12;What else could be the source of all this animosity towards Assad? And someone said we,in relation to not loving him.He’s never done nothing to me,my family,or even America,as far I know,so he’s OK by me.
And fighting for just money is definitely not as motivating as fighting for that higher power,so good luck(nah) with mercenaries.Isis is just blowback,and that blowback is scattershot.And I definitely believe they think “they” are the good guys,right wing response to right wing provocation.

Posted by: dahoit | Oct 14 2014 21:59 utc | 16

@16 The war machine is hungry and it needs to be fed. Knocking over Assad was doable and perceived as easy by many (democratic smart wars/and whatever BS Cheney said about Iraq). Knocking over a country in South America or Africa would risk counter blocs and retaliation against Western citizens and property. It’s not a problem for Syria or even Libya. Iran, North Korea etc. could launch a counter attack, so what is left? Pakistan’s tribal areas, forgotten states on the Arabian peninsula, remoter areas of Africa, and certain areas of the former Soviet sphere are what is left.
The alliance of Moscow and Beijing means the time for launching easy wars on behalf of the West is closing. The rest (conspiracy, cultural arguments, and follow the money mantras) is just commentary.

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Oct 14 2014 22:44 utc | 17

Many mainscream media sources are pushing the story of “Caesar” who defected from Assad’s regime with horrific photos proving torture. They are to be displayed at the Holocaust Memorial. And yet, the US govt had no problem when it sent/renditioned an innocent Canadian to Syria to be tortured. And what is the exact source of the photos and what are the circumstances? And why push them at the Holocaust Memorial? What is the agenda here?

Posted by: Curtis | Oct 14 2014 23:04 utc | 18

$300 to $600 a month?
Well, don’t let the Ukranian “army” to know that, otherwise the “conscripts” ($40/month) will hang Porkoshenko and go, en bloc, to ISIS/ISIL/DAASH/IS.

Posted by: Scan | Oct 14 2014 23:14 utc | 19

@Penny #10:
The AngloAmerican empire may want chaos, but it may end up with a (Turkish-run) caliphate, losing its influence in the Middle East:

What we see happening in Kobani, combined with the announced willingness of Turkey to militarily intervene in Syria, is the initial flexing of muscles between the two coming local super powers Turkey and Iran, who could carve up the entire Middle East between themselves, after the end of the American Era.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 14 2014 23:22 utc | 20

…The only thing the US or the UK will get from the removal of Assad is a very large bill and more defeat as their proxies are either eliminated by or incorporated into the Islamic State.
Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 14, 2014 3:23:09 PM | 7
And this is the very definition of calculated insanity, doing the same thing over and over to get taxpayer funded death, destruction and MIC payola at the expense of the innocent and msm manufactured ignorant.

Posted by: really | Oct 14 2014 23:28 utc | 21

Posted by: Curtis | Oct 14, 2014 7:04:50 PM | 18
its as if US regime and its media arm forgot all about Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo

Posted by: brian | Oct 14 2014 23:52 utc | 22

In the most simplistic non-nuanced terms –
The US and its UK poodle want Assad out and the trans-Syrian pipeline built.
The Israelis want Hizbullah mortally disabled and then to take the Litani River unopposed.

Posted by: chet380 | Oct 15 2014 0:33 utc | 23

@curtis#18:
The photo will be displayed at the Holocaust Industry museum as a reminder of the Israel Lobby’s support for regime change in all of the countries on PNAC’s list (so do Syria, already).

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Oct 15 2014 0:33 utc | 24

I’m still hoping that President Obama will somehow get out of this trainwreck that is Syrian regime change. Whether the USG wants to believe it or not US influence and need to be in the Middle East is waining. The US needs to address serious issues within its own borders and that means spending tax receipts on the US citizenry, not foreign interventionist proxy wars which will yield nothing more than increased hatred of Americans and balloning debt. If Obama and his administration do the responsible thing and defeat ISIL and call the dogs off of Assad, they may be able to for once and all leave the Middle East in the hands of responsible Middle Easterners and not foreign occupiers. It is time to use the weapon of responsible non lethal foreign diplomacy.

Posted by: really | Oct 15 2014 0:38 utc | 25

@7 Wayoutwest and…@21 really..
it is not insanity when the us$ is the defacto world currency and can be printed up the yin yang endlessly with no fallout.. the fallout only happens when the us$ is no longer the world currency.. this is exactly what the bric countries know and understand.. the more they move towards trading in non us$ denominated currencies, they more they will be seen as a direct threat to the value of the us$ and need to be sanctioned, or have regime change.. this is what is going on and we are watching it unfold slowly in real time.
@18 curtis.. if we are not being reminded of the holocaust directly, we will be reminded of the holocaust memorial endlessly too.. hit the repeat button 24/7 on the same theme 24/7.. never mind people have grown tired of this spin cycle and don’t believe it anymore.. just keep repeating it over and over and over… sort of like an obama speech at this point.. bs 24/7..

Posted by: james | Oct 15 2014 0:44 utc | 26

Demian@20
Turkey appears to be heading into a civil war with the Kurds and the Turks may eventually be part of the caliphate but it won’t be theirs. Iran is well on the way to lose their satrap in Iraq and their proxy force, Hezbollah, in the already crumbling Lebanon.
Both Turkey and Iran are on the defensive now and their internal contradictions may determine their eventual fates. It is interesting how the IS is manipulating, either intentionally or not, their opponents to attack and weaken their future opponents.
Did you see the UN report on Iranian led Shia Death Squads in Iraq? This information should harden Sunni attitudes towards the US/Iran backed Iraqi regime and many of the ME Sunni majority population’s view of Iran. Iran’s almost pathological need to kill and humiliate Sunis in Iraq may lead to their own destruction.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 15 2014 0:45 utc | 27

further to my comment @ 26 on the us$, you can read this article from today to get another obvious example of how this game is being played out at present..

Posted by: james | Oct 15 2014 1:16 utc | 28

@Wayoutwest @27:
No, I haven’t seen that report. I was under the impression that any Iraqi death squad activity was attributable to US, not Iranian, influence, but I could be wrong, since I’m pretty ignorant about the region.
Whatever the ME ends up looking like, I think it’s fair to say that Sikes-Picot is crumbling. Also, since the USG committed itself to “destroying” ISIS, ISIS’ continued advances are one more development that makes the US look like it is losing control of the world.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 15 2014 1:16 utc | 29

#27:
If Iran has the same kind of influence on Iraq’s pro-government militias as it has had in Syria, it is more likely to help train them and help them be more accountable to common standards. The US, on the other hand, had several years of input into Iraq’s militias from folks at CIA and State who had plenty of experience training death squads in Latin America.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Oct 15 2014 1:17 utc | 30

yes he is very naive.

Posted by: khalil | Oct 15 2014 1:34 utc | 31

@28- To put it another way, the US is like Wiley Coyote with an unlimited account at Acme. It’s forever back to the drawing board, rubbing our hands together and cooing “super genius” to ourselves…and one waits for “that’s all folks” with a lot of dread and a little hope.

Posted by: Nana2007 | Oct 15 2014 1:46 utc | 32

@ Rusty Pipes, khalil:
According to Joaquin Flores,

The US has regularly used Death Squads in all of its wars following WWII. Especially infamous were their use in Latin America during US fueled civil wars and counter-insurgency operations in El Salvador and Nicaragua, during the Reagan and Bush I administrations. Since then they have played a critical role in the US occupation and operations in Iraq and Syria.
Even where the actual targets are themselves of limited tactical importance, the use of the tactic itself is ‘the target’; meaning that the overall short and long-term effect on the collective psyche of the target population is the goal itself. This is often referred to as a “strategy of tension“. It is a form of psychological warfare developed as a standard doctrine with nearly universal application within the framework of 3GW. Its increase in efficacy correlates to the increase of urban populations of scale, and relies upon reporting by TV and newspaper printed photographs in order that the maximum horror/gore component can be widely advertised.

According to Flores, the reason junta forces did not leave the Donetsk airport was that death squads were operating from it.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 15 2014 1:48 utc | 33

@26, 28 james
Oh I understand the “threat” to dollar dominance that the brics pose. The reality of the brics nations ramping up trade in non dollar currency was even given a slight boost by the Ukraine conflict sanctions. I think the US/EU did not think of that consequence, while they were in their fog of cold war 2.0. In my opinion for the common worker ant in the farm a multipolar currency trade market will eventually be a boon to the economic and social welfare of the 99%ers on the globe.

Posted by: really | Oct 15 2014 2:09 utc | 34

Totally OT but –
‘b’ runs a great site – clearly I am a regular at the whiskey bar – but it is sadly light on the extremely important events and social battles in Latin America.
The student protests happening in Mexico are tremendously important – it appears that the Mexican police, in league with drug gangs, have been caught red handed in the mass murder of at least 43 students who were protesting against neoliberal education laws.
The rise of the self-defense groups among the citizens of Mexico and the revelations of Mexican government and CIA/School of the Americas links to the drug gangs – all against the background of the stolen 2006 elections leading to a major war in Mexico that has killed, if the stats were truthful, at least as many as have died in Syria – Mexico is a tinderbox and events there deserve more attention.
Just my two cents. Thank you for this great site.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 15 2014 2:25 utc | 35

James @ 26 said:
“it is not insanity when the us$ is the defacto world currency and can be printed up the yin yang endlessly with no fallout.. the fallout only happens when the us$ is no longer the world currency.. this is exactly what the bric countries know and understand.. the more they move towards trading in non us$ denominated currencies, they more they will be seen as a direct threat to the value of the us$ and need to be sanctioned, or have regime change.. this is what is going on and we are watching it unfold slowly in real time.”
Very succinct and well put..Thanks!

Posted by: ben | Oct 15 2014 4:10 utc | 36

Decent Reuters report:
How Mosul fell – An Iraqi general disputes Baghdad’s story
It sounds like the top Iraqi army commanders are pretty incompetent, as was Malaki. It’s funny how recent US client states tend to have a sectarian, incompetent leadership. Ukraine is another example.
Of course Reuters is going to toe the Anglo line, so its reporting needs to be treated with suspicion, but I do get the impression from the story that the fall of Mosul to ISIS was not planned by the US, and was indeed unanticipated. My inclination is to believe that ISIS is run primarily by Turkish intelligence. Antiwar.com, where I got that link from, also has a short story about how ISIS has a gift shop in Istanbul.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 15 2014 5:18 utc | 37

excellent Pepe Escobar in the atimes today
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-01-151014.html

Posted by: Mina | Oct 15 2014 9:17 utc | 38

Hammond says what he’s told to say. That’s why he’s been moved from Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Secretary of State for Transport, Defence Secretary, and now Foreign Secretary. Jack of all trades, master of none. Loyalty to the party leader goes a long way.
Besides, the current Government expires in 7 months. Then Cameron and his ministerial lackeys will be off. Don’t expect Labour, under Ed Miliband (who last year derailed international efforts to bomb Syrian forces) to even entertain this lurid idea.

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Oct 15 2014 9:24 utc | 39

7
?Why is it that a MoA that was so scintillating back in July is now like doner kebab, and wait a minute, here comes that same old tired slice again on the MoA rotisserie?
‘Shekhinah’ (‘Shock and awe’), the ‘dwelling of the Divine Presence of God in the Temple in Jerusalem’ is the time-stamp across our 21st century ever since the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, as the Ashkenazim former-Soviet invasion by immigration began in the Holy Land.
From that point forward, ‘We won, you lost. It’s just business, get over it. Now get off MY land! has been the national motto of a New Zionism, whose members are now largely Turkic rather than Semitic, and include a very sizable portion of nut-job Christian Zionists as well, the final gunny-sack race, if you will, of the Apartheidchik End of History.
It’s patently absurd to sit here and pound out ‘this won’t fly for USUKreal’, when Kiev is using the ceasefire to position Uki military forces in Donetsk for a Final Putsch, and Tel Aviv is using WADC and London to position military forces in the Levant to overthrow Assad.
Just as in a short 20 years the Ashkinazim have ceded up 98% of Formerly-Called-Palestine, and moved to make the free city-state of Jerusalem their gated community national capital, (so that even the US real estate firm RE/MAX is selling illegal occupied territory condos with swimming pools over the internet now, and fronting as ‘Arab’ buyers the last lands of Palestinians, which are then turned over to the Zionists), in another 20 years, Assad will be gone, Putin will be gone, the KSA-Qatari Axis will be trillionaires, and their oil and gas trunklines pipelined throughout the world in a last Stage 5 metastasis of civilization.
To pretend otherwise is just keeping shuffleboard score on the Titanic.
Oh, nice slide Teddy!! Good show!

Posted by: ChipNikh | Oct 15 2014 9:43 utc | 40

Posted by: Demian | Oct 14, 2014 9:16:55 PM | 29
‘iranian death squads’…are like iranian nukes

Posted by: brian | Oct 15 2014 10:46 utc | 41

@27 is indeed wayoutwest!
‘ Iran is well on the way to lose their satrap in Iraq and their proxy force, Hezbollah, in the already crumbling Lebanon./’
no hezbollah isnt a proxy force for Iran….but youre a proxy for washington….right?

Posted by: brian | Oct 15 2014 10:48 utc | 42

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 14, 2014 3:23:09 PM | 7
new reality? or old reality? thnk afghanistan and Brzezinski

Posted by: brian | Oct 15 2014 10:49 utc | 43

Demian @20
“The AngloAmerican empire may want chaos, but it may end up with a (Turkish-run) caliphate, losing its influence in the Middle East:”
Pretty sure the angloamericans have considered that and every other possibility and aren’t going to allow that to happen

Posted by: Penny | Oct 15 2014 10:51 utc | 44

‘Did you see the UN report on Iranian led Shia Death Squads in Iraq? This information should harden Sunni attitudes towards the US/Iran backed Iraqi regime and many of the ME Sunni majority population’s view of Iran. Iran’s almost pathological need to kill and humiliate Sunis in Iraq may lead to their own destruction.
Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 14, 2014 8:45:46 PM | 27;’
reading this shite….id almost suspect you were from outwest…what need to humiliate sunnis has Iran?
can just see your alter ego Wayouteast…saying the opposite, and watching in contentment the carnage
id be ware of a man who uses a nickname….

Posted by: brian | Oct 15 2014 10:52 utc | 45

wayoutwest,.,.is new..not seen him around before….i believe we have a troll

Posted by: brian | Oct 15 2014 10:53 utc | 46

Curtis @ 18
The entire “Caesar” episode is a psyop. From start to finish.
The entire report was commissioned by Qatar
I did a big post on this fabrication in January of this year
-a 31-page report obtained by the Guardian newspaper and CNN.
-The report was commissioned by the Gulf state of Qatar, which backs the Syrian rebels.
-The report is based on evidence from an unnamed informant, a photographer who claims to have defected from the Syrian military police.
-The report comes just ahead of the Geneva 2 peace talks
Which is typical of the whole Syrian destabilization just before some major talk was ongoing- or UN meeting, whatever, some psyop would take place to justify and further push the agenda
At the time of my post I cited a number of issues with the whole episode
1- commissioned by qatar
2- no images of actual torture
3- images all taken in hospitals- why? why weren’t they taken where alleged torture took place?
4- images smuggled out on a memory stick- how does one prove/demonstrate where these images actually originated.
Perhaps if they would have been on some other official device?
A hard drive taken from a government officials computer, something like that?- Admittedly I’m not techie.
But, one can download images to a memory stick from anywhere- and there were atrocities aplenty taking place in Syria- thanks to NATO’s jihadi army- and then just all the fighting- images taken in hospital???
For the holocaust museum to show these as if they are legit can only lead one to ask, that which must be asked, what other PR created displays are contained within the walls of the ‘holocaust museum’?
There are no images of actual torture taking place
Unlike Abu Ghraib- where there were images a plenty of torture and brutality as it happened

Posted by: Penny | Oct 15 2014 12:27 utc | 47

Supreme Military Advisor to the Supreme Leader’s Representative in the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps Maj. Gen. Yadollah Javani renewed Iran’s full support to the Syrian people and government in confronting the conspiracy hatched against it and in its confrontation of the terrorists’ organizations….

They have been lots of such comments from the SL office, IRGC, but very few from the present government. They seem to be caught in this P5+1 talks which is going nowhere.
Rest of article here

Posted by: papa | Oct 15 2014 13:03 utc | 48

Whos winning in Russia/US effort on ISIS?

Posted by: Anonymous | Oct 15 2014 13:14 utc | 49

@ 44 @ 47
Some “quick and dirty” “anti-propaganda tools” I have find quite useful over the years
NEVER trust anything associated with, or said by, anyone or anything .. . .
1) that uses the phrase “Caliphate” in anything other than a completely dismissive/derisory sense
2) that has the word “Holocaust” in it’s name
3) that is a “political org/NGO” has the word “Open” in it’s name
there’s lot’s more in a similar vein, but I’m sure you get the picture by now

Posted by: Anti-Semanticism | Oct 15 2014 13:21 utc | 50

Meanwhile, Kurdish officials say airstrikes carried out by the US-led coalition against ISIL positions in Syria are not working.
“There’s a valley to the Southwest of Kobani that had 2,000 ISIL vehicles in it for 11 days, yet the Americans have never targeted them. It’s as if they only want to scare them or do a little damage,” said Ahmed Shekho, the head of the Syrian Kurdish students union.http://english.farsnews.com/print.aspx?nn=13930716001160

Posted by: harry law | Oct 15 2014 13:57 utc | 51

Xymphora published a LOL jibe at what passes for UK ‘strategic thinking’ recently…
Friday, October 10, 2014
The something-must-be-done-even-if-it’s-stupid lobby
“Two more Tornados were sent to raise the British deployment to eight, because, I am told, Denmark had sent seven.”

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 15 2014 14:12 utc | 52

Here we go again. They’re ramping up the anti-Assad rhetoric for regime change.
http://news.yahoo.com/exhibition-of-syria-torture-photos-shows–depravity–of-assad-regime-220711714.html

Posted by: ben | Oct 15 2014 14:14 utc | 53

@50
NGO = NOGoodOrganization in my book, always.
No exceptions
Including
Greenpeace
Amnesty International
Human Rights Watch
AVAAZ
and many, many, many more
etc.,

Posted by: Penny | Oct 15 2014 14:17 utc | 54

Hoarsewhisperer@52 I think its called willy waving.

Posted by: harry law | Oct 15 2014 14:40 utc | 55

54
As Jean Bricmont said about NGOs . . . . –

“It’s the ‘N’ I object to!”

Posted by: Anti-Semanticism | Oct 15 2014 14:56 utc | 56

Aussi premier threatens to ‘shirtfront’ putin at the next G20 summit, accusing him of being responsible for the murder of Australians by Russian backed rebels using Russian supplied equipment in the downing of MH17, The Russian embassy in Canberra said “Hopefully there’s no fight. Well, definitely we admire the Australian prime minister. He’s very fit, but the Russian president…he’s a professional judo wrestler,” http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/10/15/382354/russia-dismisses-aussie-pm-remarks/ Don’t they know he also wrestles bears?

Posted by: harry law | Oct 15 2014 15:00 utc | 57

“Many mainscream media sources are pushing the story of “Caesar” who defected from Assad’s regime with horrific photos proving torture. They are to be displayed at the Holocaust Memorial.”
This is the same pack of lies that some idiot on Abby Martin’s RT program was trying to sell, even pathetically trying to hold some printouts of the photos up in front of the cameras.
The use of the holocaust to promote another holocaust – by the same countries that coddled the surviving Nazis.
All for cash and for power – all said a smoother, easier lifestyle. That’s our world.
After all, that’s what the Nazis were fighting for – a massive slave system spanning continents, where they’d sit back and be the “culture creators”. Now look at how the US has set up its society in relation to, say, Indonesia – and ask if it looks much different.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 15 2014 15:26 utc | 58

It appears I have attracted the Wrath of Brian the Hall Monitor of MOA JH.
If you want to understand Iran’s actions in Iraq you need to look back to the Iran-Iraq war. They have a desperate need to control and punish the Sunni population who they still seem to blame for that humiliating and horrible defeat.
The rise of the Islamic State has renewed their fears of destruction and they will do whatever they can to avoid that fate. I understand their reactions such as arming and training the militias, it worked for some time in Syria, but it appears to be ultimately counterproductive. They can’t send large numbers of troops into Iraq because there is US and also some Shia resistance to their interferance.
They are left with militia proxies who serve to suppress the Sunis and terrorize the Iraqi Army to deter them from their tendency to cut and run during battle. There was an example of this recently when retreating wounded Iraqi soldiers were killed by militamen with grenades.
Hezbollah has never tried to hide their Iranian roots and when Nasrallah speaks we hear what the Grand Ayatollah in Quom is thinking.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 15 2014 15:29 utc | 59

But the credibility of the syrian government is only the best of a number very nasty, ugly alternatives. In that regard Assad’s days are numbered as well.
See what happened in Iraq. Maliki persecuted the Sunnis and now he gone as well. (Good riddance, Maliki). Abadi seems to much better in that regard but it’s not clear if that would help to reconcile the Sunnis & the Shias.

Posted by: Willy2 | Oct 15 2014 15:37 utc | 60

Demian @20
Penny @10 is spot on! US/UK is only after Chaos! Chaos! Chaos! So what if a turkish caliphate results? Why can’t we then fund some insurgencies or stir up a color rev against that caliphate? It would still only be Muslims killing Muslims; Muslims losing homes and families; Muslims buying western armaments and selling cheaper oils to survive. Why would the empire care a flip, as there is no western lives lost? Influence? What influences are we speaking of here?
Only way to put in some checks and balances, is when bombs are raining down in Damascas/Allepo/Anbar/etc., some infiltrators in UK/US are able to bring down a few bridges across the Thames or St. Croix River/Mississippi, or bring the roof crushing down at AT&T Stadium in Arlington Tx during a sellout game, as a response. Then and only then would the imperial operators have second thoughts about Chaos.
Forget about all those geopolitical theories and punditry dished out for consumption by MSM. They are meant to confuse and mislead, not to enlighten. It’s part of the ‘reality’ machination at work.

Posted by: OleImmigrant | Oct 15 2014 15:39 utc | 61

o what if a turkish caliphate results? Why can’t we then fund some insurgencies or stir up a color rev against that caliphate? It would still only be Muslims killing Muslims;
Posted by: OleImmigrant | Oct 15, 2014 11:39:24 AM | 61

Isn’t that what they are already setting up right now?

PEPE:
Additionally, the Pentagon does not have a clue on how to build its Obama-designed proxy “rebel” force to fight The Caliph (with no US soldiers or marines; only fanatic Wahhabis and assorted mercenaries).
To start with, they have no clue who the hell qualifies as a “moderate rebel”. The rabble must be “vetted” – and then sent to, of all places, Saudi Arabia for training. There the guy in charge will be – who else – a Special Ops honcho, Major General Michael Nagata. Even under the most optimistic scenario, the Pentagon won’t have its proxy “moderate rebel” army on the ground in Syria before the summer of 2015.
Hefty bottles of Chateau Margaux can be bet that all this prime US weaponized know how will ultimately end up captured by The Caliph’s goons. Same applies to reliable “rebel” intel on the ground.
But the real Dadaist masterpiece is that first these “rebels” will be politely asked by the Pentagon to forget about getting rid of Assad to fight The Caliph. At least for a while. Re-enter Stoltenberg, the new NATO head: “Next year, at the ministerial meeting, we will take decisions regarding the so-called spearhead but, even before it is established, NATO has a strong army after all. We can deploy it wherever we want to.” OK, tough guy; why not “Syraq”?
If this all sounds like a plot straight out of hit series Blacklist, that’s because it is. Why not get Red (James Spader) to fight The Caliph? And then again, what if Red is The Caliph? He pretends to fight himself – and he wins, handsomely. Back to Welles’ The Lady from Shanghai: “Killing you is killing myself”. Yet nobody could possibly want The Caliph dead when he’s such a smashing, undisputed box-office success.

The US etc announces that it’s plan to combat it own proxy army is to conjure up yet another proxy army to supposedly oppose its OTHER proxy army.
Are there really people in this world dumb enough to buy this shit?

Posted by: Anti-Semanticism | Oct 15 2014 16:31 utc | 62

The US, on a power downslope, can only act street-gangsta like, attacking baddies.
Person, group, country – threats to their hegemony (Russia, China, Brics), socialist types who propose another economic model (Venez), heads of state they suddenly turn against or hate, a ppl / country with ‘unworthy, suspect’ religion, culture, dress habits – anything at all. (1).
Affirm and wield power –, full spectrum dominance, that old phrase.
Naturally, the war machine / economy has to be fed, a major aspect. Another part is that the idea of a ‘country’ that defends its own interests, its own ppl, is dead in bloody water. Poor whites and blacks in the US are trash. Soon their bodies and lives will be worth nothing at all and be a burden. (For now the taxpayer and social re-distribution afford some profit from these bodies – prison industry, Medicaid, etc.)
International law (treaties, agreements, UN, etc.) are to be thrashed -> check. Manipulating and threatening, blackmail, making shady promises one breaks which cannot be denounced in public, are to be kept quiet -> check. Lying about what is going hiding it from public view -> check. Ignore or cover up revolt elsewhere (except if pro-US) -> check.
Support own ppl just enough with food stamps and the like and have huge repressive police and judiciary / social control to prevent revolt of any kind -> check. Control media / Gvmts in the W -EU-, 5-eyes, Japan, to support the US -> check (is a crucial element.)
War to be fought on all levels: image and PR etc., economic, – anything goes, disturbance with color revolutions, any primer for chaos etc. Violent attacks using proxies, such as Ukr. neo-nazis, ISIL, Israel against Hamas, whatever can be exploited.
This won’t end well. That is what everyone is afraid of. Therefore appeasement, temporising, etc.
OK that was all a bit rough n’ one-sided.
1. Internal individual or small group dissidents are of no account and handled speedily.

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 15 2014 17:48 utc | 63

“It appears I have attracted the Wrath of Brian the Hall Monitor of MOA JH.”
No, he’s just on to you. You’re like Cold Horseshit in a dress.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 15 2014 17:51 utc | 64

G@64
Now we have a taped-glasses AV nerd backing up the Hall Monitor, I’m outnumered and so intimidated by your questioning my masculinity.
If you have any debateable response to my analysis I’d like to see it otherwise ‘bite me’.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 15 2014 18:06 utc | 65

The link posted by harry @51 says Iran is ready to fight the Takfiri Terrorists and provides this assessment: “[The Iraian Spokeswoman] also blasted the international community for ignoring the situation of the people in Kobani, and said the actions and the policy taken by the US-led anti-ISIL coalition have rather encouraged the terrorist group to take any action that it desires.” Iran awaits: “if the Syrian government makes a demand, we will be ready to provide any assistance it wants,” humanitarian to combat units. http://english.farsnews.com/print.aspx?nn=13930716001160
Personally, I’d like for Syria to make “a demand” of Iran and a similar one of Russia, which ought to cause more than a headache for the International Takfiris located in the US/UK.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 15 2014 18:44 utc | 66

@guest77 #64:
james should give me some kind of prize for not calling Wayoutwest a troll, but for taking his remark that Iran is running death squads in Iraq in good faith. james occasionally reminds me that I shouldn’t call other commentators trolls.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 15 2014 19:26 utc | 67

@65 wayoutwest
I believe he’s objecting to your claim that Iran wants to massacre Sunnis. Verifiable squad behavior in Iraq was supported by the united states. Any claim that Iran wants to kill sunnis has the trace of either malice or real naiveté, when saudi and its gcc partners are paying mercenaries to actually go out and kill Shia.

Posted by: Crest | Oct 15 2014 19:53 utc | 68

A bit off topic but this is funny!
Russian guy think he is an american soldier!
http://englishrussia.com/2014/10/05/russian-guy-thinks-he-is-an-american-marine/

Posted by: Anonymous | Oct 15 2014 20:02 utc | 69

D@67
The fact that the Shia militias in Iraq are trained, armed and often led by Iranians is not new news and you don’t have to take my comments in “good faith” The murders have been reported in local Iraqi news since the beginning of the IS offensive with reports of mass graves and hundreds of Sunni prisoners murdered in their cells. There was a report of about three dozen women being murdered by Shia Death Squads in Baghdad because they were prostitutes. The Iraqi news reports did use the “unidentified gunmen and victims” cover to try to hide the responsibility for these crimes.
None of this information is hidden or contested by reporters in the region, it is a sad fact that Iran feels it is necessary to behave in this cruel way.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 15 2014 20:17 utc | 70

Not just UK, the whole Axis of evil (the real one) continues regime change goal in Syria. Tactics may change, but goal wont (not in foreseeable future, at least). Too much time and capital invested (political and petro-dollars), and rewards would be so sweet. Plus if anything, Cold war with Russia will only increase determination, i.e. “civilized” EU would kill (both literally and figuratively) for pipeline from Qatar.

Posted by: Harry | Oct 15 2014 20:19 utc | 71

@40 ChipNikh.. i agree, however some folks aren’t that old to be able to have this perspective which is why it is helpful for you to give us the reminder..
i wish folks would let others know who made the comment.. just a general observation.. sure, i can connect the dots, but it would speed up the process. thanks
@67 demian..i am sorry i expressed my personal thoughts on the use of the word troll on the internet and you took them to heart. carry on doing what you do and it is all good. i will continue to avoid the use of the term as i find it really unfriendly. we all have a different method for responding to others.

Posted by: james | Oct 15 2014 20:35 utc | 72

@Wayoutwest #70:
The main reason I, unlike some others, am not inclined to call you a troll is that I like your handle. To an anglophone, “west” has positive connotations: see/hear Go West. (Now, “Anti-Semanticism” is a trollish handle if there ever was one.)
I don’t doubt that there are death squads in Iraq, or that one can call them Shiite death squads. Where I disagree with you is that I believe the death squads were created by the Americans, and Iran has nothing to do with them. Can you give any links to news stories indicating that Iran has something to do with Iraqi death squads? (There is no reason to capitalize the term “death squads”, btw.)

Posted by: Demian | Oct 15 2014 20:36 utc | 73

‘Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Oct 14, 2014 6:44:28 PM | 17
The alliance of Moscow and Beijing means the time for launching easy wars on behalf of the West is closing…’
Yes , hopefully soon this will become a reality , however I am afraid that until then the ‘Axis of the Devil’ forces will accelerate/multiply the degree of their satanic blood lust in West Asia , there is no room for repenting and they know it.

Posted by: Sufi | Oct 15 2014 21:16 utc | 74

If you want to understand Iran’s actions in Iraq you need to look back to the Iran-Iraq war. They have a desperate need to control and punish the Sunni population who they still seem to blame for that humiliating and horrible defeat.
The rise of the Islamic State has renewed their fears of destruction and they will do whatever they can to avoid that fate. I understand their reactions such as arming and training the militias, it worked for some time in Syria, but it appears to be ultimately counterproductive. They can’t send large numbers of troops into Iraq because there is US and also some Shia resistance to their interferance.
They are left with militia proxies who serve to suppress the Sunis and terrorize the Iraqi Army to deter them from their tendency to cut and run during battle. There was an example of this recently when retreating wounded Iraqi soldiers were killed by militamen with grenades.
Hezbollah has never tried to hide their Iranian roots and when Nasrallah speaks we hear what the Grand Ayatollah in Quom is thinking.
Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 15, 2014 11:29:27 AM | 59
not surprising…as you seem to think Iran is absolute evil!
lets examine your claims:
1′
They have a desperate need to control and punish the Sunni population who they still seem to blame for that humiliating and horrible defeat.

sez who?
2’The rise of the Islamic State has renewed their fears of destruction and they will do whatever they can to avoid that fate’
also USA UK france evej saudi are all afraid of the monster they have created…the main fear iran has is of USrael, but you chose to ignore that
3. ‘ I understand their reactions such as arming and training the militias, it worked for some time in Syria, but it appears to be ultimately counterproductive.’
since when has iran trained (sunni) militias like alnusra?
4. ‘They are left with militia proxies ‘
i readliase ‘proxy’ is the word of the month…but iran has no proxies there…the proxies are alnusra IS FSA…and guess who they proxy for…there are no others.
5. ‘and terrorize the Iraqi Army ‘
…..snigger…..
6.’Hezbollah has never tried to hide their Iranian roots and when Nasrallah speaks we hear what the Grand Ayatollah in Quom is thinking/”
see this is why you telegraph your associations so loudly! Nasrallahs fame comes from his NOT being a mouthpiece.
so in sum youre a fraud a liar an oaf and a real proxy for USrael.
smoke that

Posted by: brian | Oct 15 2014 21:43 utc | 75

@brian#75:
One of Iran’s most significant contributions in Syria has been sending IRG units to train neighborhood and village defense units. At the beginning of the Syrian conflict, all local militias were derided by rebels as “shabbihas” or thugs, who were blamed for a variety of atrocities and corruption. Even if they were not responsible for all of the activities attributed to them, they were poorly organized and trained, loosely structured and insufficiently accountable for their actions. The IRG has helped them to be more effective and accountable. But it is a gross distortion to call these groups Shiite squads. They have been composed of whatever available local people were dedicated to fend off the insurgents.
On another note: Attention shoppers! Avoid major mess in aisle 3. Management has not yet cleaned it up.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Oct 15 2014 22:14 utc | 76

The fact that the Shia militias in Iraq are trained, armed and often led by Iranians is not new news and you don’t have to take my comments in “good faith” The murders have been reported in local Iraqi news since the beginning of the IS offensive with reports of mass graves and hundreds of Sunni prisoners murdered in their cells. There was a report of about three dozen women being murdered by Shia Death Squads in Baghdad because they were prostitutes. The Iraqi news reports did use the “unidentified gunmen and victims” cover to try to hide the responsibility for these crimes.
None of this information is hidden or contested by reporters in the region, it is a sad fact that Iran feels it is necessary to behave in this cruel way.
Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 15, 2014 4:17:00 PM | 70
strange then how you dont provide the links…i sure the MSM has lots of stories like that…after all is iran was backing death sqwuads itd be all over the NYT BBC ABC NBC CBC Guardian telegraph etc
so lets see the western english language press reporst of iranian death squads
they are likely to be next to the iranian nuke stories

Posted by: brian | Oct 15 2014 22:16 utc | 77

Since we’re talking about Iran, I’ll mention that I was struck by the DeepResource blogger calling Iran a “fundamentalist state”. I don’t see how anyone can call a country which can produce a film like A Separation fundamentalist.
On a side note, my experience with Iranians is that they are a magnificent people so long as they remain true to their culture and live in Iran, but when they become Westernized and emigrate they become completely unbearable.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 15 2014 23:33 utc | 78

Don’t you ever make a token effort to acknowledge information that runs counter to your narrative?
Obama’s ISIS strategy is going down a path with one destination: an alliance with Assad – Vox
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6961925/obama-ally-with-assad-isis-syria

Posted by: Louis Proyect | Oct 15 2014 23:49 utc | 79

When I taught college composition, I read many stories by Iranians from the Outlaw Empire inspired Iraq-Iran War–Iranians from different socio-economic and religious backgrounds–a very proud people cognizant of their long-lived culture. I think Iran has finally decided enough is enough–given the hyping of the International ISIL/ISIS Threat, Iran becoming the only nation willing to destroy the Threat cannot be seen as doing anything wrong unless the whole ISIS narrative–so deeply and loudly proclaimed by the Propaganda System–is turned on its head.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 16 2014 0:06 utc | 80

Louis Proyect is a rude son of a bitch, and doesn’t know how to post links to boot.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 16 2014 0:07 utc | 81

i know a few folks from iran.. the one’s i have met have been quite nice.. i used to watch foreign films a lot and i always enjoyed the films out of iran..
@79 louis proyect.. that link is pushing a very right wing ideology.. an obama and assad alliance – sounds about right coming from wacked out neo-con central… always good to get some neo-con central viewpoints..

Posted by: james | Oct 16 2014 0:17 utc | 82

Now I’m really going off on a tangent, but our friend Wayoutwest did bring up the issue of Shiism.
I have know several Iranians, a couple fairly closely, but I have not known any Sunnis, so that may influence my thinking here. But my impression is that Iranians, and hence by extension Shiites, are people you can relate to, whereas Sunnis are something utterly alien, like aliens in a sci-fi film or TV series, the Goa’uld for example. (BTW, Obama comes across to me as a Goa’uld.) To me, Iranians come across as Poles: people who come from a culture which is my adversary (Poles because they hate Orthodoxy; Iranians because they reject Christ and hence reject God), but people whom I can nevertheless understand as ordinary human beings. Sunnis on the other hand seem to live in an utterly alien world, again, like something out of science fiction. That impression is reinforced by what I find on Muslim Web sites. I just did a Google search on “Reza Aslan Sunni”, because I wanted to find out if he became a Sunni. I didn’t get an answer to that, but I did run across some posts on Muslim Web sites that sound completely crazy. I’m sorry, but Sunni Muslims come across to me as more crazy than Scientologists.
If some lurkers out there with knowledge of Islam could help me out with this, I’d be very grateful.
Also, as I indicated before, the films of Asghar Farhadi help me relate to Iranians. I tried watching a Turkish film once, Once Upon a Time iin Anatolia, but found it to be completely unwatchable, and gave up about half an hour in. If someone knows of a Turkish equivalent to A Separation, a Turkish film which helps make Turkish culture accessible to Westerners, I’d appreciate any recommendations.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 16 2014 1:14 utc | 83

“so intimidated by your questioning my masculinity.”
That’s a bad sign.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 16 2014 1:16 utc | 84

@Demian – Oh, Proyect knows how to post links. That’s all he does, living links back to his blog like so many rat droppings all over the internet.
The number of times I’ve gone to sites like FAIR, or Behind the News’ timeline only to see Proyect has pathetically left links back to his blog without even the decency to leave a comment is astounding.

Posted by: guest77 | Oct 16 2014 1:33 utc | 85

ot @83 demian.. check out ziauddin sardar’s writing .. the first book of his which i read was “Desperately Seeking Paradise: Journeys of a Skeptical Muslim”..

Posted by: james | Oct 16 2014 1:40 utc | 86

An Obama/Assad alliance makes good sense. So does a nuclear deal with Iran and an easing of tension in Ukraine. But Obama will never be allowed to do it even if he wants to.

Posted by: dh | Oct 16 2014 1:50 utc | 87

@james #86:
Thanks for the link, but that is a cultural studies piece about how Hollywood portrays Muslims. I don’t need to read a pomo article to know how Hollywood does that. And the whole concept of “skeptical Muslim” is a non-starter for me, since it is a given that Islam is a false religion which worships an idol.
What I want is some means of access to how Sunni Muslims experience the world. I think film is the most effective means for doing that, for someone who, like myself, does not want to make a significant investment in learning about this culture. It’s the next best thing to actually visiting the country. I have read one book on Islam, Reza Aslan’s No god but God, and that is more than enough. (That title is highly tendentious and anti-Christian by the way, since Muslims do not worship God but an idol called Allah.)

Posted by: Demian | Oct 16 2014 2:13 utc | 88

Even David Ignatius admits it:
“Syrian opposition falls deeper into disarray”
….
The political disarray of the Syrian opposition — and the regional feuding that drives it — deepened in Istanbul this week, as Qatar pushed its preferred Islamist candidate into a key leadership position of the major rebel coalition despite bitter protest from rival factions backed by Saudi Arabia and other nations.
..
Tumeh’s nomination was strongly opposed by other rebel factions, including the Saudi-backed “Democratic Bloc,” headed by Ahmad al Jarba, and the Kurdish National Council. These and several other groups boycotted the final vote, according to Syrian opposition members.”

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 16 2014 2:14 utc | 89

@88 demian. i was going to give you the wikipedia page on him, but i thought the article might suggest that most of the west’s views on muslims are shaped via important propaganda vehicles like movies..
your comment ” since Muslims do not worship God but an idol called allah” could just as easily be applied to christians who worship an idol called christ.. i think the degree one is steeped in a particular religion in a subjective context is the degree where they are unable to get outside of a particular viewpoint to be able to appreciate an alternative viewpoint.. what do you think?

Posted by: james | Oct 16 2014 2:29 utc | 90

@james #90:
OK, I am going to continue going off on a tangent here, but I think we all support Assad and Iran in their struggle against the Empire, and aside from that, I am an atheist, so what I am going to say has philosophical but not political or practical import.
I approach religion from a Hegelian point of view. The concept of God is useful, because it gives one a representation of the Absolute, something which is outside us that connects us all together. However, once that concept has been attained, one must realize that it was just a working hypothesis deployed in the process of getting to the final point, which is to realize that we are all greater than ourselves, because we are connected to each other through our intersubjectivity. This is where Christ comes in. Christianity, with its doctrine that God became a man, reveals the true meaning of the concept of God: we are all God. (The Hegelian way of expressing this is that we have access to the Absolute because our way of being is reason; Orthodoxy also has an understanding of this truth of Christianity with its concept of theosis.)
Since Islam vehemently rejects the idea that God became a man, it definitively cuts itself off from the truth that is contained in monotheism, and thus is a false, puerile, vapid, and lifeless religion, demanding that one devote one’s life to a sterile and incoherent concept.
To answer my own question about Turkish films, Valley of the Wolves: Iraq is accessible to a Western audience. However, it is a thriller in the Western mold, so it does not really convey what it is like to be a Turk, the way that A Separation conveys what it is like to be Iranian.

Posted by: Demian | Oct 16 2014 3:36 utc | 91

To LP, Demian, & jas., 79, 81 & 82 —
FWIW, I has a few more ads than I’m used to seeing on some of our more common sources. All I can make out from the glossy presentation as to their politics is “Putatively Hip.” But damn, I feel like I suddenly slid on some oil — boy was that slick. Seriously, the Media Package is, like, totally cool. The pages kinda slide up the screen as you move along. I particularly liked the page touting their live production skills. “No agency or other media company conceptualizes and executes unique, polished offline experiences that connect readers, industry insiders, and advertisers the way Vox Media does.” I should have like to have gone the the event they tout — “SXSW Kickoff Party featuring Local Natives” at the Moody Theatre, Austin.
As to the substance of Fisher’s, let’s avoid peregrinations about “Barry Choom’s” ME policy in pts. 1-9 and cut to the chase, 10. Unless ISIS miraculously collapses on its own or Obama changes the calculus that had led him to rule out every other option, then he ultimately has two choices. Keep the status quo strategy… or partner with Assad and help him win the war. Both… are disasters for Syria and for the broader Middle East, not to mention for Obama’s legacy. But only one of them [the latter — rm] actually achieves Obama’s narrow objectives in Syria…. And, accept it or not, it’s the path down which we are already heading.”
Obama has consistently failed to stand up for the 99% on every issue. The only ones he persists in affirm and indeed extend the fiascos of Bush the Younger. Too many powerful interests benefit from the status quo. He will continue down the neo-con path.
James and Demian at 90, 91 (et al.)
I think I’ve said too much on Hegel and religion already. Except to quote Chief Wiggums on the Simpson’s repeat tonight. Homer gets brainwashed into converting to fundamentalism, Wiggums has got a bulletin saying someone in Springfield has been radicalized. He has a list of suspects, including Bumblebee Man, and tells Apu, “I don’t see colors, I see crack-pot religions.” Issues of meaning and morality are IMHO best left to poets and musicians, not inquisitors or priests (of all varieties). Hey, if Yhwh exists, he is seriously schizo….
“For Duty and Humanity!”

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 16 2014 4:13 utc | 92

Holy Cow. This is nothing less than an historic grab for the future of the ME. Will it be a Turkish caliph, a salafist caliph, a sunni caliph, or what?? All these powers are vying for a return to glory of their individual sovereign past at owning the majority of influence over the ME. Who’s gonna win?
We don’t have a real dog in this fight, just some leftover hubris at western empire still struggling to stay viable. It is over for us. We will be coming home soon since we are dead broke.
The rest of the story will be written by the players in the region, not the western powers. Who’s greater glory to god will prevail, or will they each wear each other down with the whole thing becoming one giant fiasco? Then what??

Posted by: andrew | Oct 16 2014 4:14 utc | 93

…and I would agree, 92 coulda done w/ a little more proofing….

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 16 2014 4:16 utc | 94

Posted by: Louis Proyect | Oct 15, 2014 7:49:46 PM | 79
what the hell is VOX?
hes back, hes bigger, hes badder..and hes stil on the wrong side of history and the right side of the devil.
Louies latest has: ‘After the US threatened to bomb Assad in 2013, the Syrian leader allowed the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) to grow into such a serous threat that the US is now bombing it instead. ‘
US didnt plant to bomb Assad but to bomb Damascus! so bombing Assad will be commiting not one murder/assassination of a head of state, but the mass murder of hundresd or thousands.
But outraged Assad, says VOX and Louie,, he was upsegt OBAMA and his G men didnt kill him , so he planned to draw Obama back for another try..this time he didnt just allow ISIS in..he created it! (i can imptrove in VOXs invention), thus giving the Nobel peace prize winner the justification to make another bombing sun and kill thousands of syrians for good.
===============
its difficult not to see the poor fellow as having been taking somwe SSRIs and gone on a psycho bender!

Posted by: brian | Oct 16 2014 4:45 utc | 95

Don’t you ever make a token effort to acknowledge information that runs counter to your narrative?
Obama’s ISIS strategy is going down a path with one destination: an alliance with Assad – Vox
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6961925/obama-ally-with-assad-isis-syria
Posted by: Louis Proyect | Oct 15, 2014 7:49:46 PM | 79
thats why we have Cold and hole in the head and other ‘originals’!
but i notice you dont allow any ‘information that runs counter to your narrative?’ on your blog…right? i used to comment there till my information ran counter to your narrative and i was blocked

Posted by: brian | Oct 16 2014 4:48 utc | 96

@rufus magister:
There definitely has been a Russian spring or Russian reawakening. Before, when I explicated Christianity, I completely ignored Orthodoxy. Now I feel compelled to represent Christianity not just through Hegelianism (which I consider to be the end point of Lutheranism), but also through Orthodoxy. (My paternal grandmother was Latvian, so Lutheranism is in my blood.)

Posted by: Demian | Oct 16 2014 4:56 utc | 97

andrew at 93 —
Well said, w/ the caveat, local players with outside support. Ergo consequences will reverberate back to the paymasters, maybe initially muted or delayed.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 16 2014 4:56 utc | 98

B, I think these psychos in Western capitals are perfectly sane and know exactly what they’re doing.
Make no mistake, they have a script and follow it to the last letter. If you think about it, Western public have grown tired and weary of their troops fighting and dying in foreign wars and their politicians are finding it harder everyday to justify any military intervention anywhere..
The idea of relying on a mercenary army of jihadists, sorry moderates, fits perfectly with their plans. The benefits to them are huge!!! No body bags coming home and most of all their troops won’t be the ones doing the dying – the jihadis do a better job at that. This is classic 21st century war on the cheap.
And as for Syrians, the empire don’t give a f*ck what happens to them as long as Israel is safe in herself. Seems to me the strategy here is to destroy what they couldn’t have in 3 – 4 years of fighting. The initial plan was to install a pliable puppet in Damascus but since this hasn’t worked despite all the sh*t they’re thrown at it(even chemical weapons), they’ve now decided to go for broke and destroy Syria altogether. Think of it as a scorched Earth campaign, using jhadists from all over the world. Chaos is good for business..Think about all the defense contracts their cronies will be getting and all that comes with it.
The fallacy of this madness is that, it puts all the US/UK’s regional “allies” at risk since these cuddly jihadis(sorry, moderates) often tend to develop a mind of their own. Already we’re witnessing tensions in Turkey with the Kurds getting pissed day by day due to Turkey’s open support for them jihadis..More to come 🙂

Posted by: Zico | Oct 16 2014 6:05 utc | 99

@91 demian.. thanks for sharing. yes to the first part of your first sentence.. i can’t see this conversation getting to a place that is mutually rewarding for both of us. i understand the christian concept of the trinity (ps your theosis link didn’t work) and what christ is said to represent in this concept.
demian quote :”Since Islam vehemently rejects the idea that God became a man, it definitively cuts itself off from the truth that is contained in monotheism, and thus is a false, puerile, vapid, and lifeless religion, demanding that one devote one’s life to a sterile and incoherent concept.” perhaps you know more about islam then i am able to appreciate, but i don’t get this from what you’ve shared here and it certainly isn’t my understanding of islam.
i tend to believe formal religion has cut itself off from god by creating a formal structure that is many steps removed from a direct experience of god/enlightenment. the relationship to this a person has doesn’t hinge on any particular world religion christianity, buddhism, islam, judaism and etc. but on a persons direct experience of god/enlightenment. i don’t believe world religions have a special hotline to any of it. the high priests of all of them would like us to believe differently, but without a personal connection (which i don’t believe hinges on participation in a formal religion – some might say it interferes in one’s ability), i see them all equal in either helping or hindering a person’s ability to reach enlightenment. this will be my last OT comment on this.
on a related note i think the different islamic sects – sunni, shite, and etc are being used to create more conflict by the west. it’s a bit like helping foster more conflict by having provocateurs adding fuel to these differences rather then to lessen these divisions. bottom line is the wests military involvement in lands primarily associated with the religion of islam requires we give more attention to knowing the religion of islam rather then less if we are to have any place of integrity to stand on. i would say the west has failed miserably in this regard. on a final note perhaps karen armstrongs book on islam is a better place for you to start demian..

Posted by: james | Oct 16 2014 6:20 utc | 100