Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 24, 2014

WaPo Propaganda vs. McClatchy Journalism

Washington Post

At least on the first day of bombing, there was little public backlash, with virtually no outcry beyond a pro-Islamic State protest in Istanbul."


On Facebook, critics of the U.S. and its Arab allies, calling them “aggressors” and the “Crusade Coalition,” dominated the postings Tuesday by almost 10 to 1.

Washington Post

The attacks against the Islamic State militants were openly welcomed by rebels who have fought for three years against the government of President Bashar al- Assad.


Raad Alawi, the commander of a smaller group of fighters, the Squadrons of Al Haq, told McClatchy he was very angry.“Starting the war with the bombing of Nusra is an indication that this is a war against the revolution and not Daash,” he said, using the pejorative Arabic acronym for the Islamic State. “Maybe next they will bomb the bases of the Free Syrian Army.”
The Hazm movement, which also receives U.S. and international support, issued a statement condemning the airstrikes, the failure to consult the Free Syrian Army and the deaths of civilians.

Posted by b on September 24, 2014 at 17:45 UTC | Permalink


wapo, nyt, wsj - all official propaganda outlets..

Posted by: james | Sep 24 2014 18:09 utc | 1

OT but worthy of some attention:

The downing of Malaysian passenger flight MH-17 was a great tragedy, especially for the Dutch people. In The Netherlands I covered all ins- and outs 24/7 from the beginning, the first hours after the Boeing–777 crashed in eastern Ukraine near the border with Russia.

In New York, president Obama spoke about the tragedies in the world and was quite forcefull about Islamic State, Al Qaeda 'remnants,' Ebola outbreak in western Africa and the conflict in Ukraine. Indeed the downing of flight MH-17 was covered and resulted in these immediate news headlines on Dutch news sites and tv coverage …

Obama: 'Rebels blocked entry to crash site with help from Russia'

This is a blatant and ugly lie from the U.S. president I will not let this pass unanswered.

Obama Making a Fool of Himself at U.N. General Assembly

Posted by: Oui | Sep 24 2014 18:53 utc | 2

The Pentagon has only released photographic evidence on three air and missile raids, seen here. They were an alleged ISIL storage facility, with major damage, and two buildings with some damage. We can assume that this is the best (and only) evidence the Pentagon can offer of their highly-hyped air attacks on Syria.

There was plenty of warning of these attacks. Obama telegraphed what he would do, and it's impossible to hide the midnight takeoff of F-22 aircraft in Qatar and the release of Tomahawk missiles from destroyers in the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf area. We can be reasonably sure that ISIL fighters were snug abed in town with their sweeties when these buildings were hit.

TIME magazine has reported that the wicked heart of darkness (per Obama) Khorosan group numbered around fifty, and the Pentagon claims that 47 Tomahawk missiles (at $1.5 million each) were fired at these fifty nasty people who were planning (or pre-planning) to hit Europe with shoe bombs and such. Show me some tangible results, I say, or shut up.

The attacks haven't helped Obama's drooping popularity at all, according to Rasmussen, nearly a month before the election. They have boosted ISIL recruiting, though, with a reported 6,000 signing up during the early days of this first "offensive" which the US generals say will go on for many years. No doubt, based on the current strategy. They would love that.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 24 2014 18:55 utc | 3

Islamic State (IS) Is Fully Active In Turkey

Quite interesting interview and discussion on Dutch news yesterdayt with Zaman editor Mehmet Cerit and a scholar Michael Leezenberg. IS has numerous terror sleeper cells in metropolitan areas of Istanbul and Ankara. IS enjoys a large backing in the slums, the poorest people. IS has freedom to promote its cause, operate mosques with their religious leaders and recruit fighters which could freely cross the border with Syria. In Turkey. many injured ISIL fighters are treated for severe injuries before returning to the battlefield.

As NATO partner, Turkey has become an unreliable member in the fight with the Islamic State. In addition, Turkey used the ISIL fighters to push back the PKK fighters in Syrian Kurdistan. The Kurds had complained ISIL fighters used the border with Turkey as refuge, to appear again in another location for an ambush.

Posted by: Oui | Sep 24 2014 18:58 utc | 4

ISIS Draws a Steady Stream of Recruits From Turkey | McClatchy |

NY Times article about support in Turkey for the ISIS and Islamic State raised some eyebrows and commotion in the circles of Erdogan. Do remember, the overthrow of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood was a slap in the face [or worse] for Erdogan personally and lighting path of Islam from Ankara. More media signal the reluctance of NATO partner Turkey to join the coalition against IS and al-Nusra extremists.

Report: ISIL has sleeper cells in Ankara, İstanbul, Konya

There are reports from Turkey, the nation may be torn apart by a strong Islamic State support and the Kurds (PKK).

Posted by: Oui | Sep 24 2014 19:00 utc | 5

Oui, that "reluctance" article was written Sept 12, when IS still held Turkish hostages. Now they've been released and afaik they're still "reluctant".

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 24 2014 19:37 utc | 6

Posted by: Oui | Sep 24, 2014 2:58:03 PM | 4

Zaman is close to the Turkish Gülen movement which was routed from the AKP by Erdogan. Gülen is a resident of the US and suspected to be close to the CIA.

I would take what they are saying with a lot of salt.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 24 2014 19:38 utc | 7

somebody, I think Gülen owns todayszaman. Whether he does or not it's his main media outlet in Turkey. I'm surprised Erdogan hasn't shut it down. On the other hand if Gülen is hooked up with the CIA, maybe Erdogan can't.

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 24 2014 19:46 utc | 8

Thanks, b. The Empire doesn't need to create MiniTrue when it has the WaPo.

Posted by: ess emm | Sep 24 2014 19:47 utc | 9

Those turkish hostages, is that the same that was caught back in June? If not, what happend with those?

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 24 2014 19:57 utc | 10

- It proves that McClatchy has a good set of reporters in the Middle East and that they don't toe the official US government line. But how many people read McClatchy on line ?
- McClatchy reporters are regularly interviewed by Scott Horton ( Horton used to do these interviews for but had to set up his own website/shop after Antiwar had to cut back on spending in 2011/2012. (I have regularly visited since say mid 2005).
- The articles prove my (biased ??) view that those air attacks are "not helping" on how the Middle East looks upon (predominantly) the US and its allies.

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 24 2014 20:00 utc | 11

What seems bizarre to me, Don, given Obama's poor standing with the public after finally dropping his charade that he is something other than just another war president is the level of commitment in training alone. This is from today's NYT story:

While the airstrikes are the opening wave in what officials say will be a sustained air campaign, military analysts say the weak link in the strategy for combating the Islamic State remains the ability to train and equip Iraqi forces and Syrian rebels. It will take time to build up forces in both countries that will be strong enough to capture and hold territory from the militants.

In Iraq, American advisers need to train the 26 Iraqi brigades that the Pentagon says are still intact and loyal to the government and help the Iraqis establish new national guard units, which would have the primary responsibility for defending Sunni-dominated provinces and would be recruited largely from Iraqi tribes.

With a bilateral agreement with the Afghanistan soon to be signed, continuing the training relationship there, how does the U.S. think it can keep paying for all of this?

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Sep 24 2014 20:04 utc | 12


Yes, these are the June 11 hostages.

Syrian rebel group freed ISIL militants in swap for Turkish hostages | Hürriyet Daily News |

Syrian rebel group Liwa al-Tawhid released 50 members of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), including the family of a late leader, in a swap deal that ended with the release of 49 hostages abducted from Turkey’s consulate in Mosul, according to security sources.

The wife and children of Samir Abid Mohammad al-Halefawi [nom de guerre Haji Bakr], an ISIL leader killed in Aleppo in February, were among the released ISIL members in the simultaneous exchange for the Turkish mission, the source told Hürriyet.

Posted by: Oui | Sep 24 2014 20:17 utc | 13

More press tv filming from the Israeli side of the Golan heights.

Definitively strange what is going on there. Filmed from a drone? But this person here is actually interviewing people.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 24 2014 20:21 utc | 14


Thanks for the observation, Zaman linked to Gülen movement. The storyline appeared across the media however. Here an article in Newsweek:

Exclusive: ISIS Starts Recruiting in Istanbul’s Vulnerable Suburbs

Posted by: Oui | Sep 24 2014 20:29 utc | 15

@12 This is absolute madness:

the weak link in the strategy for combating the Islamic State remains the ability to train and equip Iraqi forces and Syrian rebels.

You bet it's weak! Iraq is a serious ally of Syria, so the US intel is trying to get the two allies to fight each other? Or get the Iraqis to support the 'rebels'? This demonstrates to me that US actually has no strategy, just craziness.

Or worse - fake war on IS.

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 24 2014 21:31 utc | 16

so the FSA is still there? and still trying to wrest control of a chaotic situation the foosl have themselves created.

Posted by: brian | Sep 24 2014 21:34 utc | 17

Posted by: Oui | Sep 24, 2014 4:29:56 PM | 15

ISIS like alqaeda recruits its 'syrian rebels' from outside syria

Posted by: brian | Sep 24 2014 21:35 utc | 18

Posted by: Oui | Sep 24, 2014 2:58:03 PM | 4

ISIS is a missionary religion with a mission and the mass of sunnis aer vessels to be filled with it ,..just as wahhabis did in 18th century. The poor are many and often brutal and unscrupulous...perfect cannon fodder

Posted by: brian | Sep 24 2014 21:39 utc | 19

Syrianonymous ‏@Syrianonymous ·2h
It wasn't #ISIS/#IS/#ISIL who did this, it was #Obama's "moderate" #FSA during days of "peaceful" protests. #Syria

Posted by: brian | Sep 24 2014 21:41 utc | 20

@Willy2 #11:

As I recall, McClatchy was the only anglophone wire service which, during the run up to the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq, ran stories casting doubt on claims that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction.

Posted by: Demian | Sep 24 2014 21:51 utc | 21

Mike Maloney @ Training foreign forces " how does the U.S. think it can keep paying for all of this? The question is how can they train these foreign forces not to run away at the first whiff of grapeshot? 30,000 Iraqi troops with armour who, [unlike the Islamists] were not motivated to fight, did not stop running till they reached Baghdad. The old saying comes to mind.. you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink [fight].

Posted by: harry law | Sep 24 2014 21:55 utc | 22

Lavrov tells Kerry a few home truths "In an interview given to the Russian Channel 5 prior to his meeting with US State Secretary John Kerry on Wednesday, Lavrov said that combating terrorism requires fighting terrorists everywhere, not classifying them as good because they’re trying to topple a duly elected and legitimate leader that the sides making these classifications happen to dislike personally.
“According to this logic, the only bad terrorists are the ones who only kill U.S. citizens,” he said, wondering how the Americans failed to see the terrorist threats before".

Posted by: harry law | Sep 24 2014 22:06 utc | 23

Posted by: harry law | Sep 24, 2014 6:06:56 PM | 23

Please don't link to the truth it scares the sheeple;) The one thing I like most about Russian leaders is that if you didn't understand what they just said than your an idiot. Its to the point but Kerry will miss the whole thing spout off some insane BS as usual.

Posted by: jo6pac | Sep 25 2014 0:06 utc | 24

@jo6pac #24:

The one thing I like most about Russian leaders is that if you didn't understand what they just said than your an idiot.
Russian leaders don't do postmodernism, which Western elites have embraced. Postmodernism is a pseudo-left embellishment on the concept of doublethink. I can't think of a better recent example of doublethink than Obama's address to the UN General Assembly.

Posted by: Demian | Sep 25 2014 0:52 utc | 25

@ Mike Maloney #12
how does the U.S. think it can keep paying for all of this?
"Think?" You're kidding me.
There is no limit to what the US will spend on war. It's never a consideration, because (1) It's not their money and (2) There's no limit on borrowing. Just increase the debt limit.

There is a legal basis for not only the US intervention in Iraq, but also continuing to train the Iraq military. It's the US/Iraq Strategic Framework Agreement of Nov 26, 2007, which I've commented on previously. ..."Providing security assurances and commitments to the Republic of Iraq to deter foreign aggression against Iraq that violates its sovereignty and integrity of its territories, waters, or airspace."

Of course ISIS being a US ally they're not about to go beyond feckless air raids and the pretense of helping Iraq. Bottom line: Iraq and Syria are allies of enemy Iran, and so they must be crushed. So the Strategic Framework is out the window.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 25 2014 2:06 utc | 26

Posted by: Demian | Sep 24, 2014 8:52:30 PM | 25

Yes for sure and over the years have you noticed the meaning of words have changed;) Back to making dinner.

Posted by: jo6pac | Sep 25 2014 2:07 utc | 27

Just saying hello to fellow moa'ers. As Mike Malloy says, Thanks for keeping it lit.

Posted by: really | Sep 25 2014 3:05 utc | 28

Reuters: Syrian minister says U.S.-led strikes going in 'right direction'

Syria is still watching all developments with caution, Ali Haidar, minister for national reconciliation, told Reuters on Wednesday after U.S. warplanes pounded Islamic State positions in a second day of attacks.

"As for the raids in Syria, I say that what has happened so far is proceeding in the right direction in terms of informing the Syrian government and by not targeting Syrian military installations and not targeting civilians," he said.

"Notification of the Syrian government happened," he said. "Confirmation that they would not target Syrian military installations, and confirmation they would not target civilians happened."

Of course, this intervention by the US by means of air power in Iraq and Syria is in its very early stages, but still, this "notification of the Syrian government" does seem to set a precedent. So it is very hard to figure out what USG is up to. So far, with this new bombing campaign, the White House is mostly driven by domestic politics, as opposed to geostrategic concerns or Zionist goals, as far as I can tell.

(h/t to

Posted by: Demian | Sep 25 2014 5:21 utc | 29


If you understand how the PETRODOLLAR system works then you know who pays for those US wars: foreigners. But only as long as the US runs a Current Account Deficit.

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 25 2014 6:21 utc | 30

Posted by: Oui | Sep 24, 2014 4:29:56 PM | 15

from August Hürriyet on Turkish ISIS recruits

Hürriyet suggests that Erdogan, who comes from a kind of Turkish Muslim Brotherhood movement, has been fighting the Gülen movement who represent "enlightened Islam" instead of looking after ISIS who are hard line islamist.

The US has been supporting all three and the Turkish military to counter Soviet/Russian influence. Turkey has been the staging ground for proxy wars since the end of the Ottoman Empire.

Turkey now is blamed for the failed US/EU regime change policy in Syria - which was not Turkey's idea - they had this "zero problems with neighbours economic policy" - which is in Turkey's interest not the Middle East destabilization they are drawn in now. Fact is it was the EU that has made buying oil from rebels legal - and it was Al Nusra and ISIS who owned the oil fields. And fact is it was the CIA that was "vetting the rebels" in Jordan and Turkey.

The reason Turkey is all over the media as friend of ISIS now is likely to be this here

Turkey has so far played silent on E.U. sanctions against Russia, opting to stay out of the tit-for-tat diplomatic pressures Moscow and Western powers have been throwing at each other over Ukraine. This time, however, it may be more difficult for Turkey to remain on the fence.

It will be interesting to see if Turkish construction firms will work in Crimea.

This here is RT on Turkish Iran relations

And this is the same game, done via Turkey, that was done to Syria in the initial stages.

The US is negotiating with Iran to distance it from Russia. "Supporting Assad" by "striking ISIS" in Syria is part of it.

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 24, 2014 5:31:34 PM | 16
Or worse - fake war on IS.

That is likely. The borders between Syria and Iraq have been pulled down to create a "Sunni majority" to pressure the "Shiite governments" of Iraq and Syria.

Remember that the "Shiite/Sunni" dichotomy is artificial.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 25 2014 6:52 utc | 31

@somebodey - #31

Excellent, thank you.

Turkey was to be part of the gas transport pipelines Qatar – Saudi Arabia – Iraq – southern corridor to Europe. Part of an old plan from 1997 - feasibility study. A different scenario is the Leviathan [Israel] -Turkey pipeline: Natural Gas to Europe. Turkey's foreign policy is in complete shambles, however both Israel and Turkey have not condemned Russia's annexation of Crimea.

Turkey's animosity to Assad's Syria can be explained from Assad's opposition to the Qatar pipeline, protecting Russia [Gazprom]'s interest. The alliance of Muslim Brothers fell apart when Morsi was overthrown in a people's revolt and the military took control in Egypt. See my earlier comment.

Posted by: Oui | Sep 25 2014 8:22 utc | 32

Double Dutch F-16s In the Air

Ooops … these F-16s were promised to the "Eastern Front" in the Baltic in confrontation with Putin's Russia. The Dutch AF would be part of the NATO Rapid Reaction Force. Wonder how Mr. and Mrs. Sikorski ["War in Europe is not a hysterical idea"] will express themselves when they get this message. So sad!

Dutch F-16s to join anti-IS strikes in Iraq: deputy PM

Lacking a U.N. mandate from the Security Council, the European nations will operate in Iraq and will not fly sorties over Syrian territory.

Posted by: Oui | Sep 25 2014 8:23 utc | 33


Is there a mandate for IRaq though?

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 25 2014 8:31 utc | 34

Posted by: Oui | Sep 25, 2014 4:22:56 AM | 32

There is a recent Charlie Rose interview with Erdogan

His answer is ironic though the irony might be lost on an US audience. He basically claims to have told Putin that "helping Crimeans" by invading was wrong "as there might be other countries who might want to help people by invading" instead he should "help people to be able to stand on their own feet".

Posted by: somebody | Sep 25 2014 8:37 utc | 35

As US Bombs ISIS in Syria, Even Some Pro-War Pundits Express Skepticism
William Greider on September 23, 2014 - 2:15 PM ET

The war whoops of the pundit class helped propel the nation into yet another doomed military adventure in the Middle East. Ghastly beheadings by a newly discovered enemy were the frightening flashpoint. The president ordered bombers aloft and US munitions were once again pounding battlefields in Iraq—and as of last night, in Syria. The president promised to “degrade and destroy” this vicious opponent.

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 25 2014 9:20 utc | 36

Posted by: Oui | Sep 25, 2014 4:22:56 AM | 32

The alliance of Muslim Brothers fell apart when Morsi was overthrown in a people's revolt and the military took control in Egypt.

That people's revolt was staged by Gulf (Saudi) secret services in cooperation with Egyptian military/secret service. The Muslim Brotherhood was supported by "the West" to destabilize the region. The liberal young "spring" protest was for the consumption of Western publics. This has been pulled since German Social Democrats justified their support of World War I with the fight against the "reactionary tsar".

Saudi's largest customer nowadays is China - this here is a recent weapons deal - as seen from China

The United States approved the sale of DF-21s to Saudi Arabia as long as they are not nuclear-capable variants of the missile, said the Newsweek report. Eshqi did state that the purchased DF-21s, however, can be equipped with a nuclear warhead. The decision made by the Saudi Arbian government to purchase Chinese instead of American missile systems shows that Riyadh is being pushed further away from Washington by its international policy towards towards Iran and Syria.

This here is the NYT on Turkey's weapons deal with China. I think the US nixed it.

Turkey recently made a stir by selecting the FD-2000 system, the export version of the HQ-9, for its nationwide long-range surface-to-air missile system. The FD-2000 beat out competitors, such as the American Patriot, European SAMP/T Aster system and the Russian S-300. Key considerations were reportedly a price tag a billion dollars less than Western competitors’ prices and the promise of technology transfer. However, the deal is not sealed and negotiations have hit a snag over technology transfer.

The US is trying to block China in Pakistan, they sure will have tried to block it in Saudi Arabia. The stupid sanctions policy has driven Iran and Russia to China. The stupid Middle East destabilization policy has driven Saudi to China/Russia and now Iran. Turkey and Europe are dependent on Russian gas. Destabilizing the Middle East won't open any pipelines.

Let's hope the US cut their losses and sue for peace.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 25 2014 9:32 utc | 37

Obama Speech At UN: Hypocrisy, Lies and Newspeak

Video and Transcript

"We fight for our ideals, and are willing to criticize ourselves when we fall short. Because we hold our leaders accountable, and insist on a free press and independent judiciary."

Posted September 24, 2014

Note from Tom - ICH regulars, may wish to have a sick bag close at hand.

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 25 2014 9:55 utc | 38

Karzai tells it like it is

Mujib Mashal @MujMash · 23. Sep.

#Karzai references a poem: "In appearance, you call for quelling the fire...but in secret, you have matches in hand igniting the flame"

Karzai: you still ask why I didnt sign BSA? peace here until US & Pakistan want it. PakiStan's civilian gov want peace..but not allowed

Karzai: pakistan wanted control over our foreign policy...that will never happen.

Karzai: the amount of effort I put with pakistan, no Afghan leader has tried in our history. But didn't happen.The US didn't want this peace

Posted by: somebody | Sep 25 2014 10:22 utc | 39

Russia tops ISIS threat, Ebola worst of all? Lavrov puzzled by Obama’s UN speech
Published time: September 24, 2014 21:47
Edited time: September 25, 2014 04:44 Reacting to the speech, Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov spoke with astonishment.

“We earned the second place among the threats to international peace and stability,” Lavrov told journalists on the sidelines of the UN assembly.

Not only the ranking of international threats seemed bizarre to Lavrov, especially in the light of the current strikes in Iraq and Syria that bypassed the UN mandate, but also Obama’s certainty that the world has become “freer and safer.”

“I didn't understand whether he was serious or not and whether there was an Orwellian element in it. Because George Orwell invented the Ministry of Truth and it looks like this philosophy is lingering."

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 25 2014 10:40 utc | 40

Seems like Obama's speech writer was able to smuggle in some truth

The brutality of terrorists in Syria and Iraq forces us to look into the heart of darkness

Heart of Darkness

The story is a complex exploration of the attitudes people hold on what constitutes a barbarian versus a civilized society and the attitudes on colonialism and racism that were part and parcel of European imperialism.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 25 2014 11:37 utc | 41

It seems a bit preposterous that the so called Khorasan group chose to travel to an active war zone to concoct elaborate schemes against the West. The tacit implication that those plotting against us either don't value their own lives, or just want to make it more challenging, is a paradox. Our government wants to portray these individuals as criminal masterminds and at the same time to detail their counter-intuitive maneuvers. I can envisage them staring at a US drone, wondering why the US thinks everything is about them. Then again, they are probably smarter than that.

Posted by: IhaveLittleToAdd | Sep 25 2014 12:08 utc | 42

Fascinated that airstrikes in Syria targeted and destroyed/degraded "ISIS controlled oil fields" (which represent most of Syria's flagging oil industry) -- As far as I can tell Syria's oil industry was nationalized in the 1960's and I can find no evidence it was ever re-"privatized" (although foreign exploration resumed in the late 1970's and remains highly subsidized domestically (to keep prices down for the domestic market).
According to the BBC, this "blackmarket oil smuggling" has been in existence for decades and is low level and largely a "local market" so this may be another "strike" against terrorism that makes life even more bitterly difficult for the locals.

France reportedly bombed ISIS in Iraq (and Syria) -- allegedly in "retaliation" for the beheading of a "tourist" ... interesting precedent.
I'm guessing this will not increase Baghdad's popularity.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Sep 25 2014 12:19 utc | 43

My bad, wrong link (left out France) -- here's reuter's confirmation of France striking Iraq
(looking for link to backup what I had heard on BBC broadcast).

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Sep 25 2014 12:23 utc | 44

Oops, no ransom:
Algerian militants behead kidnapped French tourist
By Patrick Markey

September 24, 2014.

ALGIERS (Reuters) - Algerian militants have beheaded French tourist Herve Gourdel, who was kidnapped by gunmen on Sunday in what the group said was a response to France's action against Islamic State militants in Iraq.

In a video released by his captors, Gourdel, a 55-year-old from Nice, is seen kneeling with his arms tied behind his back before four masked militants who read out a statement in Arabic criticising France's intervention.

They then pushed him on his side and held him down. The video does not show the beheading, but a militant later holds the head up to the camera.

"This is why the Caliphate Soldiers in Algeria have decided to punish France, by executing this man, and to defend our beloved Islamic State," one of the militants says in the statement he read out.

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 25 2014 12:28 utc | 45

There is a recent Charlie Rose interview with Erdogan

His answer is ironic though the irony might be lost on an US audience. He basically claims to have told Putin that "helping Crimeans" by invading was wrong "as there might be other countries who might want to help people by invading" instead he should "help people to be able to stand on their own feet".

Posted by: somebody | Sep 25, 2014 4:37:19 AM | 35

One wonders why he won't remove Turkish troops and Turkish settlers from Cyprus.

Posted by: John Jones | Sep 25 2014 12:37 utc | 46;-.aspx

Lavrov/Obama and Sisi/Erdogan should fix it "the gentlemen way" on the green out the UN with witnesses.

At least in the old times war leaders were also participating in battles and there was a guarantee of renewal..

Posted by: Mina | Sep 25 2014 12:57 utc | 47

Just saw one of our military apparatchiks on the beeb saying that it might take a year to "recruit and vet" a new Free Syrian Army that presumably will be better than the old one. It's a shame that Soldier of Fortune magazine isn't around. They could buy a full page ad.

It's quite clear that regime change is and always was the goal. I think it's called sowing the wind...

Posted by: chuckvw | Sep 25 2014 14:13 utc | 49

Posted by: chuckvw | Sep 25, 2014 10:13:25 AM | 49

Obviously, regime change has been postponed - at least for a year.

Training as a pretext to take "vetted" people out of Syria to Saudi safety?

Posted by: somebody | Sep 25 2014 14:24 utc | 50

@IhaveLittleToAdd #42
It seems a bit preposterous that the so called Khorasan group chose to travel to an active war zone to concoct elaborate schemes against the West.


Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 25 2014 14:31 utc | 51

It's quite clear that regime change is and always was the goal. I think it's called sowing the wind...

It's seems quite clear that perhaps there is no goal. There doesn't have to be one — a goal, at least not in the conventional sense.

It's a bit like Monopoly, except more people get hurt. The object is not to win, but also not to lose. The game must never end, and The Family must survive at all cost.

It's not whether you win or lose, but whether you play the game and how well you play it.

There simply is no Game Over.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Sep 25 2014 15:10 utc | 52

It seems a bit preposterous that the so called Khorasan group chose to travel to an active war zone to concoct elaborate schemes against the West.

Khorasan Group?

Is it just me, or would this be a good name for a Wall Street hedge fund?

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Sep 25 2014 15:17 utc | 53

If I understood Cameron’s speech at the UN (broadcast over RT) yesterday, he is calling for making illegal making statements that could inspire people to commit acts of terrorism, and includes conspiracy theories about 9/11 and 7/7. That would of course be a drastic limitation of freedom of speech. One wonders whether such conspiracy theories are regarded as so dangerous because Cameron and other officials know there is truth in them.

Posted by: lysias | Sep 25 2014 15:39 utc | 54

@54 lysias. i am not sure which country is more messed up in it's clampdown mentality - england or the usa. i am beginning to think england and the usa is hard to beat in this dept!

Posted by: james | Sep 25 2014 15:43 utc | 55

@40 okie.. i think the idea is to demonize putin/russia 24/7.. any major public event such as obama's comments at the un are the perfect format for is quite pathetic, but one has come to expect from the exceptional nation..

Posted by: james | Sep 25 2014 15:48 utc | 56

Yep, Camerons speech is interesting. The independent has got the text in full.

Frankly, he sounds as if he has lost it.

Iran should also be given the chance to show it can be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Earlier today I met with President Rouhani.

We have severe disagreements.

Iran's support for terrorist organisations, its nuclear programme, its treatment of its people.

All these need to change.

But Iran's leaders could help in defeating the threat from Isil.

They could help secure a more stable, inclusive Iraq; and a more stable, inclusive Syria.

And if they are prepared to do this, then we should welcome their engagement.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 25 2014 16:02 utc | 57

Malbrunot is back. His article is mainly a summary of Haytham Manna' 's report on Daesh

The worse you can do to a pro-Syrian revolution journalist these days is to ask him who was in control of Raqqa before Da'esh...
Or what should be done to repare the mistakes in Libya, just to see.

2 million Libyan in Tunisia

Posted by: Mina | Sep 25 2014 16:16 utc | 58

Erdogan insulting Egypt at the UN is irritating Saudi Arabia and encouraging a rapprochement Saudi Arabia-Syria.
Erdogan is guaranteed for full hatred from the Arabs

Posted by: Virgile | Sep 25 2014 16:30 utc | 59

a more stable, inclusive Iraq; and a more stable, inclusive Syria.

'inclusive' means giving over political power to Sunnis - essentially to surrender. Never gonna work. They got Malaki out only to have someone more partison to replace him.

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 25 2014 17:03 utc | 60

to somebody at 41 --

Heart of Darkness is an excellent read. You know that it was the basis for the plot of F.F. Coppola's "Apocalypse Now." Best 'Nam pic, IMHO -- the Doors were never really on my musical radar until I saw the opening credits, over "This is the End."

to Demian at 21, 25

You're right about McClatchy. I recall reading somewhere, a while ago, that one reason it didn't have much of an impact was -- no papers in the major "opinion-maker" mkts., NYC, DC.

On our opinion-making elite -- only the academic elite fell for post-modernism, and this largely in the humanities. Bad enough though. They do have an impact on politicians who listen to what one MoA poster termed the "ineffectual left."

Is "Barry Choom" post-modern? Law deals w/ too much reality to go to heavily overboard, but then, constitutional law, esp. post Sept. 11th., is pretty unreal. He may flirt with po-mo, but likes Wall St. too much to get too weird. So I lean "no."

His speech the other night, not post-mod. As an academic signifier, it's used more to proclaim "in crowd" status. You don't want the masses, the uninitiated, or those who disagree to understand you. He needed to communicate in order to mislead.

On the ongoing strikes, IMHO -- What's interested me are two things. 1) Obama Admin. finally got the Syrian airstrikes he wanted, but instead of against Assad, helping him (so whined the "moderate" insurgents on drive-time news radio). 2) The the most is the effort the Establishment is spending to distance Wash. from any responsibility at all. Neither invasions, air campaigns, "moderate" insurgencies (dating back to the Afghani mujehedeen), nor Wahabi allies in Riyadh have anything to do with ISIS. It's all Assad's fault, or Leonid Brezhnev's. All "down the memory hole."

P.S. -- will cite details from the MSM item from the Sun. Ed. pg. for the bit on LB. Must run errands.

Posted by: rufus magister | Sep 25 2014 23:28 utc | 61

@Demian - Please don't confuse the western oligarchy embracing of lies, hypocrisy, and warfare for "post-modernism".

Post modernism is a fairly interesting group of ideas with some good in it. Unlike the "philosophy" of the western kleptocrats.

Posted by: guest77 | Sep 26 2014 0:20 utc | 62

Just for laugh:

Go Obomber! The early lame duck.

Posted by: Scan | Sep 26 2014 2:37 utc | 63

McClatchy (formerly Knight-Ridder) is one of the few true US newspapers where reporters do the footwork.

Posted by: MRW | Sep 26 2014 22:15 utc | 64

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