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September 08, 2014

Open Thread 2014-21

News & views ...

Posted by b on September 8, 2014 at 01:28 PM | Permalink

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Former CIA Representative: MH17 Crash Investigators May Be Hiding Information.

Link/A>

Posted by: james | Sep 8, 2014 2:06:46 PM | 1

My coverage here - Tomorrow a Preliminary, Final Report On MH-17 Within a Year.

Bloggers already "know" the conclusion of the DSB report: The Russians did it! Expect more western propaganda. [Update: Cameron's personal outlet the BBC adds more bs]

The whodunit question won't be answered by the Dutch Safety Board tomorrow, nor in the final report. It's not their task to point to a culprit, that's what the criminal investigation is set up for. It will be a lengthy road, all experts are firm, the person ultimately responsible will never face justice.

Posted by: Oui | Sep 8, 2014 2:13:24 PM | 2

Good article by Samir Amin in the latest monthly review, "The Return of Fascism in Contemporary Capitalism."

Not to spoil the ending, but here is Amin's last paragraph (accurate I think):

In conclusion, fascism has returned to the West, East, and South; and this return is naturally connected with the spread of the systemic crisis of generalized, financialized, and globalized monopoly capitalism. Actual or even potential recourse to the services of the fascist movement by the dominant centers of this hard-pressed system calls for the greatest vigilance on our part. This crisis is destined to grow worse and, consequently, the threat of resorting to fascist solutions will become a real danger. Hillary Clinton’s support for Washington’s warmongering does not bode well for the immediate future.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Sep 8, 2014 2:14:29 PM | 3

"President Mahmoud Abbas has now said the delay in sending the letters to the United Nations (UN) was at the request of American officials

See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/09/israels-occupation-birthday.html#sthash.cYwkypVH.dpuf

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 8, 2014 2:21:47 PM | 4

What a traitorous pig is Mahmoud Abbas ...

Abbas Accuses Palestine´s Hamas of Running “Shadow Government”


“We won't accept a partnership with them if the situation continues like this in Gaza, where there is a shadow government... running the territory,” Abbas stated, according to WAFA news agency.

... I understand that he has millions upon millions in the proverbial 'Swiss bank accounts', his Judas geld from the US/Israeli imperialists.

Posted by: john francis lee | Sep 8, 2014 2:38:19 PM | 5

abbas is just a stooge for usrael anyway..

thanks for the link @3 mike.. that sounds about right.. meanwhile we have folks divided along the lines of which football team to cheer for.. team america verses team russia - while the ugly details are completely ignored..

Posted by: james | Sep 8, 2014 2:39:13 PM | 6

Life goes on + popular culture.

The Mrs. America contest vs. the Russian Mrs. will take place in Sevastopol in 2015. Scroll down to the vid:

http://mrsamerica.com

the Russian entry for the 2014 Eurovision is all about Ukraine/Russia:

song with eng. subs (I don’t recommend except for those interested):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60QdHa4Pkhs

the lyrics here (no sound):

http://www.eurovision.tv/event/lyrics?event=1883&song=31183

Natch’ Russia, the West, moves, and all the horrific deaths, maiming, destruction, take first place. I weep. Everyday. But at the same time there is this popular culture which just proceeds regardless. It was, and is, very much the case, for ex. since 15 years with Iran, student exchanges, scientific competitions, songs, never stopped. I don’t know what to make of that.

Posted by: Noirette | Sep 8, 2014 2:46:43 PM | 7

@6 james
Cue the music...

Posted by: really | Sep 8, 2014 3:09:54 PM | 8

the sanctimonious ones are giving out sanctions again.. see here

Posted by: james | Sep 8, 2014 3:11:51 PM | 9

@really.. exactly! people treat world events like a football, or punching match as opposed to recognizing their own family being murdered, which is basically how i view humanity - one big family..

Posted by: james | Sep 8, 2014 3:14:28 PM | 10

I think the Pentagon has determined that the world's resources are being spread too thin and the most effective solution is to eliminate lots of people; preferably through hirelings, but by first hand in a pinch.

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 8, 2014 3:24:55 PM | 11

@10 james

I totally get what your saying. These politicians and pundits wage wars like its some kind of video game simulation. The problem is, particularly with US "politicians" and punditry is that they are too far removed from the killing and destruction. They would think twice about being so trigger happy if there was a certainty that reciprocal continuous death and destruction would rain on their cul-de-sacs.

Posted by: really | Sep 8, 2014 3:27:00 PM | 12

Tommorow the first report/version of MH crash, will be out.
Prepare for full blame on rebels and Russia.

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 8, 2014 3:38:52 PM | 13

@13 anonymous

Of course it's gonna be an instant replay like the day of mh17 incident. Prepare for the propaganda. The entire msm orcheastra will be in tune and the USG will be the conductor.

Posted by: really | Sep 8, 2014 3:46:25 PM | 14

Sidestepping the "N"-word in Ukraine. N for Nazi.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/06/sidestepping-ukraines-n-word-for-nazi/

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 8, 2014 3:47:55 PM | 15

Poroshenko interview the other day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TozuOzVHE00

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 8, 2014 3:57:06 PM | 16

Ruralito, we're already there. The current age is characterized by what is known as the Holocene extinction, or the Sixth great mass extinction. Homo sapiens have managed to avoid a huge die-off so far, but our time is a-coming. This is from the Center for Biological Diversity:

Perhaps one of the most striking elements of the present extinction crisis is the fact that the majority of our closest relatives — the primates — are severely endangered. About 90 percent of primates — the group that contains monkeys, lemurs, lorids, galagos, tarsiers, and apes (as well as humans) — live in tropical forests, which are fast disappearing. The IUCN [International Union for Conservation of Nature] estimates that almost 50 percent of the world’s primate species are at risk of extinction. Overall, the IUCN estimates that half the globe’s 5,491 known mammals are declining in population and a fifth are clearly at risk of disappearing forever with no less than 1,131 mammals across the globe classified as endangered, threatened, or vulnerable. In addition to primates, marine mammals — including several species of whales, dolphins, and porpoises — are among those mammals slipping most quickly toward extinction.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Sep 8, 2014 3:58:34 PM | 17

Iran & the US are aligning up to defeat ISIS.

http://www.juancole.com/2014/09/signs-allied-versus.html

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 8, 2014 4:07:55 PM | 18

Michael Hudson on the financial shenanigans the IMF is playing in Ukraine. IMF breaking own rules, the money being loaned to UKR is fleeing the country, and the US's plan to have UKR stiff Russia on what it owes them. Hudson is excellent, as usual.

Posted by: ess emm | Sep 8, 2014 4:12:10 PM | 19

"...WASHINGTON — Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats.

That conclusion, of which President Obama and other senior officials are aware from classified assessments of the Syrian conflict that has now claimed more than 25,000 lives, casts into doubt whether the White House’s strategy of minimal and indirect intervention in the Syrian conflict is accomplishing its intended purpose of helping a democratic-minded opposition topple an oppressive government, or is instead sowing the seeds of future insurgencies hostile to the United States.

The opposition groups that are receiving the most of the lethal aid are exactly the ones we don’t want to have it,” said one American officia familiar with the outlines of those findings, commenting on an operation that in American eyes has increasingly gone awry.

The United States is not sending arms directly to the Syrian opposition Instead, it is providing intelligence and other support for shipments of secondhand light weapons like rifles and grenades into Syria, mainly orchestrated from Saudi Arabia and Qatar..."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/world/middleeast/jihadists-receiving-most-arms-sent-to-syrian-rebels.html?qs=&form=QBLH&pagewanted=all&_r=0&

Posted by: really | Sep 8, 2014 4:17:34 PM | 20

- I like Michael Hudson but sometimes he's a bit "off his rocker".
- "Obama strategy to beat Islamic State likely to draw U.S. into years of conflict"

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/09/05/239029_obama-strategy-to-beat-islamic.html?rh=1

(McClatchy has some VERY good reporters).

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 8, 2014 4:20:15 PM | 21

"How the US made ISIS"

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-01-030914.html

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 8, 2014 4:35:45 PM | 22

From a long piece in the London Review of Books -

Why not kill them all?

And so imagine if for two decades you have been trying to pull your country, bit by bit, into Europe. Imagine that it’s been a bumpy road – everything you accomplish seems to get sabotaged by the political forces from the east. Imagine that finally the contradictions within your country have come to a breaking point. Imagine that all the people who opposed your politics for twenty years – all the most backward, poorest, least successful people in the country – got together in one place, declared an independent republic, and took up arms? What would you do? You could let them go. But then you’d lose all that land and its industrial capacity and also what kind of country just lets chunks of itself fall off? Perhaps you could think of it as an opportunity. Something similar happened when the old Stalinists and nationalists took over the Supreme Soviet in Moscow in 1993. All the enemies of progress in one place, all the losers and has-beens: wouldn’t it be better just to solve the problem once and for all? Wouldn’t it be a better long-term solution just to kill as many as you could and scare the shit out of the rest of them, for ever? This is what I heard from respectable people in Kiev. Not from the nationalists, but from liberals, from professionals and journalists. All the bad people were in one place – why not kill them all?

The author manages to acknowledge at various points in his story the existence of fascists among the ranks in Kiev but lets this statement just hang there. To my untrained ear this sounds an awful lot like Hitler's Final Solution and should have called out as such.

Another odd thing was this passage -

We drove to the fields west of Makeevka to visit an old cow shed where Bik now raises worms to produce fertiliser; according to the US government, it was from one of the nearby fields that Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 had been fired on.

Last I heard the US government said an SA-11 was launched from rebel controlled territory outside Snizhne. There was the photo of the launcher being trailered through Torez earlier in the day and a video of the launcher trundling south out of Snizhne for the Russian border. Snizhne is 50+ km west of Makeevka, hardly what one would describe as nearby.

Snizhne never made sense since the 777 was hit at a point very near the max range - and some say beyond the range - of both the missile and the BUK launcher's radar. A shot taken from the area on Makeevka would make much more sense, assuming you want to argue it was an SA-11 that brought down the plane. Are we being set up for a new and improved story line?

Posted by: Anon | Sep 8, 2014 4:38:36 PM | 23

@MM, disagree; the Pentagon, the ZioGhouls, love them some bio-diversity; it's the excess people, demanding pay checks, health care, food, housing, that stick in their craw. The big human die-off mustn't be left to nature; too messy, time consuming and hard to manage. It should be planned in advance.

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 8, 2014 4:47:07 PM | 24

"...“Who are the rebel forces?” asked McCaul, who receives classified briefings in his role with the Homeland Security Committee. “Every time I get briefed on this it gets worse and worse, because the majority now of these rebel forces — and I say majority now — are radical Islamists pouring in from all over the world to come to Syria for the fight.”

Kerry strongly disputed McCaul’s question. “I just don’t agree that a majority are al-Qaida and the bad guys,” he told McCaul. “That’s not true. There are about 70,000 to 100,000 oppositionists, about somewhere, maybe 15 percent to 25 percent might be in one group or another who are what we would deem to be bad guys.”

McCaul would not accept Kerry’s numbers. “The briefings I’ve received, unless I’ve gotten different ones or inaccurate briefings, are 50 percent and rising,” he said. “These fighters coming globally are not coming in as moderates. They are coming in as jihadists.”..."

http://m.hanfordsentinel.com/news/opinion/todays_opinions/politics-today-how-do-we-tell-good-guys-from-bad/article_af54b57a-1a68-11e3-bd86-001a4bcf887a.html?mobile_touch=true

Looks like that USG vetting of so dubbed moderate rebels in Syria helped on purpose or not, to create ISIL. Now the USG and certain pundits want to double down on vetting "moderate rebels" again. The USG and the Saudis just want ISIL to get stronger, because ISIL 1.0 is getting smacked down by Assad. ISIL in Syria is about regime change...

Posted by: really | Sep 8, 2014 4:47:16 PM | 25

@20, IIRC US arms were/are funneled through the Mexican army to the Drug lords by the simple expedient of just leaving a truck full of legal guns parked somewhere and posting a discreet facebook message. Can't find the link. Maybe I just imagined it, but it has a certain cause and effect appeal in light of ISIS' convenient acquisition of US hardware.

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 8, 2014 4:59:26 PM | 26

@9 Sanctions + a new UA troop build up = pressure to agree to Kiev demands. They never quit.

Posted by: dh | Sep 8, 2014 5:07:45 PM | 27

14 really

Yes I think tommorow might be the one of the worst day when it comes to propaganda and warmongering against Russia.

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 8, 2014 5:09:57 PM | 28

14

Tommorow's headline will be like:

"BREAKING NEWS: REPORT SHOW REBELS SHOT DOWN THE PLANE WITH RUSSIAN PROVIDED MISSILES!!!!!"

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 8, 2014 5:18:23 PM | 29

@29 anonymous

What I find peculiar is that the msm have not even mentioned today that the mh17 report is being released tomorrow. I guess the USG and state dept. are scripting the narrative up to the very last minute before delivery to the msm shills. I guess they are having a hard time photo shopping Putin manning the buk....

Posted by: really | Sep 8, 2014 5:32:08 PM | 30

I don't think they have conclusive proof. It's yesterday's news anyway. The only thing that matters now is the next round of fighting in Donbass.

Posted by: dh | Sep 8, 2014 5:34:48 PM | 31

@Willy2 #21:

From your link:

Jeffrey White, a former senior Defense Intelligence Agency analyst, said it appears that Obama has been forced by the Islamic State’s military successes and its growing threat to undertake a serious effort to build and arm a Syrian opposition force capable of defeating the Islamist extremists with the help of U.S. air power. …

The top general of the Free Syrian Army told McClatchy last week that since December secret U.S. military and non-lethal support has bypassed the group’s Turkey-based leadership and gone directly to up to 14 commanders inside northern Syria and some 60 smaller groups in the south. All of them report to the U.S. spy agency, he said.

“The leadership of the FSA is American,” said Gen. Abdul-llah al Bashir, who defected from Assad’s army two year ago.

Free Syrian Army field commanders confirmed that the United States is providing their men with training outside Syria and with weapons, including TOW anti-tank missiles.

Thus, the US is going to direct the fight by its proxies in Syria against IS, while completely ignoring the Syrian government. At the same time, the US endlessly screams about how Russia must respect Ukraine's sovereignty. The double standard could not be more glaring.

Also, I can't believe that the US is still talking about the Free Syria Army. The only way to make sense of Obama's strategy to use a rival insurgent force to fight IS, instead of teaming up with the Syrian government, is that the US wants to spread chaos.

Posted by: Demian | Sep 8, 2014 5:40:49 PM | 32

excuse me b and moa folks...ahem.....

CONGRESS NEEDS TO VOTE ON ANY MILITARY ACTION IN SYRIA. CONGRESS SHOULD NOT HIDE BEHIND OBAMA'S ROBE JUST BECAUSE IT IS AN ELECTION YEAR. DO YOUR JOB FOR ONCE CONGRESS, DON'T BE COWARDLY. PUT THE VOTE ON THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, YOU OWE AT MINIMUM THAT MUCH TO THE SERVICE MEN AND WOMEN OF THE US MILITARY.

Posted by: really | Sep 8, 2014 5:43:51 PM | 33

It gets weirder....

"Israel has provided satellite imagery and other intelligence in support of the U.S.-led aerial campaign against Islamic State in Iraq, a Western diplomat said on Monday."

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-provides-intelligence-islamic-state-western-diplomat-172835378.html

There's that 'Western diplomat' again. Busy guy.

Posted by: dh | Sep 8, 2014 5:58:47 PM | 34

dh

Yes I agree, there will be no 100% proof on MH, that wont stop the us/eu-warmongers though.

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 8, 2014 6:06:01 PM | 35

Tomorrow's preliminary report by Dutch Safety Board ...

I suspect it will be a delay tactic as the Dutch forensic experts vacated their search of the crash site within a few days. The site came under attack from Ukrainian forces contrary to U.N. Security Council resolution to let the investigation proceed. The DSB has stated they need to have all data to make a conclusive report on the crash.

The report most likely will urge the war parties to lay down arms so the investigation of the site can begin in earnest. I do hope they have arrested the ATC tapes within hours/days as the US sent in their experts when the Dutch Recovery team left Kharkiv and the DSB joined them going back home.

MH-17: Members Dutch Safety Board Return Home | Aug. 11, 2014

Posted by: Oui | Sep 8, 2014 6:31:36 PM | 36

In response to B.'s blog posting "Obama Administration Restarts Marketing Campaign For Bombing Syria" someone wrote that B. must be "demented" to call Juan Cole a "warmonger", which is interesting because among other things he has consistently supported American war against Syria - having neglected the significance of US suppport for Bin Landen in the Eighties he helped to cause a worst tragedy - still unfolding - with the "Islamic State", which got its start with American and Saudi weapons supplied to the "good" terrorists, and confiscated by Isis. Even now he is pushing war against the Assad regime - unmindful of the power vacuum to follow, which would be filled by ISIS.

So when B. suggests that Obama is trying to start war in Europe because the US will be relatively unscathed, that is no exaggeration. Hasn't that been the US playbook in every conflict since Koriea? Preemptive war, devastation and chaos, which bother Obama and his enablers not at all, since it turns out to be good for the corporate bottom line.

It may be coincidence but the change in Juan seems to date back about five years ago when Cole got neo-conned out of his appointment to Yale. The Yale administration actually vetoed Cole's appoinment as a professor of history - the faculty had actually voted for him 13-7.

Posted by: rackstraw | Sep 8, 2014 6:50:00 PM | 37

#34

Wonder if the so-called "Western diplomat" get his info from the famed SITE Intelligence Group :-)

Posted by: easy e | Sep 8, 2014 6:57:40 PM | 38

@38 They get all their info from Informed Sources.

Posted by: dh | Sep 8, 2014 7:11:26 PM | 40

MH17: Dutch Safety Board to publish preliminary report on disaster

On its website the Dutch board said: "The DSB will not make any statements with regard to apportioning blame or liability, and these issues will not form part of its investigation."
That isn't stopping new "reports" from coming out casting blame on the Russian military. Incredible. Even Kiev didn't do that.

Posted by: Demian | Sep 8, 2014 7:13:04 PM | 41

@17

Maybe you family tree is littered with apes, chimps and monkeys. I suspect anyone who relies on The Center for Biological Diversity for his facts, could well expect to find one of his ancestors flying from one limb to to the next.

I think all of my forebearers from the first generation to the last only climbed a tree when they were hunting bears or lions or deers. I believe later they worked smart, made a lot of doe and drove BMWs.

I think this because this is what the folks over at the Center for What's Happening Now published in their most recent paper on diversity.

Posted by: Skip Cook | Sep 8, 2014 7:34:41 PM | 42

Dutch Safety Board preliminary report - most curious whether it refers to the ATC tapes, as it is not clear yet whether they have been handed over or not. Also if any mention of fighter jets in vicinity. High possibility of very ambiguous report, with perhaps some language or phrasing which could be spun as supporting the *rebels did it* position.

Posted by: jayc | Sep 8, 2014 8:44:11 PM | 43

Difficult to believe that the investigation of the crash over Ukraine that took almost 400 souls could assign guilt absent Kiev spilling their guts with the Tower tapes and whatnot.
Guess we will see if the modern Goebbles can paper over the fissures in their souls among other body parts.

Posted by: Jay M | Sep 8, 2014 8:45:53 PM | 44

--@ 37 rackstraw

To expand on yr post re Prof. Cole, while those who led the attack on his appointment can be called "neocons", in reality it was a concerted effort by the entire pro-Zionist propaganda apparatus that was enraged by his relentless criticism of barbarous Israeli actions and policies that cost him the appointment.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/06/05/cole

Posted by: chet380 | Sep 8, 2014 8:58:52 PM | 45

Sorry. I don't have time to find the poster who linked to this treasure-trove. but I am obliged.

More petrol for your fire-sale RD...http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n17/keith-gessen/why-not-kill-them-all

"‘The protests in March and April were the most massive grassroots protests I have ever seen in Donetsk,’ Yuri Dergunov, who is also from Makeevka and teaches political science, told me. ‘In my memory people here had never been so active and so involved in their own fate.’ He pointed out the very specific social composition of the protests in Donetsk. The pro-Maidan protests, when they took place, were middle class and nationalistic; anti-Maidan was lower class and anti-oligarchic (and Russian nationalist). ‘I would see the people at Maidan and think: “What nice people, so well dressed, so educated.” Then they would open their mouths.’ The things that came out of their mouths included slogans taken from interwar Ukrainian fascism. They also expressed what Dergunov calls barely concealed ‘social racism’ towards the members of anti-Maidan. Perhaps nowhere else in Ukraine was the split between pro-Maidan and anti-Maidan so visible as it was in Donetsk.

While Mishin was quietly attending the rapidly growing anti-Maidan meetings, Enrique Menendez, a businessman, was himself getting worried. Menendez, who is named after his grandfather, a Spanish Republican soldier who retreated to France and after the war ended up in the USSR, is thirty years old. He grew up in a town fifty miles north of Donetsk and moved to the city after high school to seek his fortune. Too poor to afford university, he found he could navigate the media business, and got work at a growing internet company in Donetsk. Three years ago he started his own company, the Ad Factory, which did online marketing for businesses in Donetsk. He was doing well and had seven employees. But he began to feel his city slipping away from him.

In early March, Menendez and some other local professionals decided to organise a big pro-Ukraine meeting. Menendez was tasked with ensuring security for the protesters: everyone knew they might be attacked. He approached the staff of the newly appointed governor, but they couldn’t guarantee the protest’s safety; eventually he got in touch with the organised fans of Shakhtar Donetsk (shakhtar means ‘miner’ – Donetsk is coal country). These ultras, who had been supporters of Maidan, agreed to provide security. The meeting went off, thousands came, and at the end a group of men approached with sticks. The ultras were as good as their word and confronted the attackers, with the result that several of the ultras (as well as several of the attackers) ended up in hospital. This was as expected, but Menendez was discouraged.

Posted by: Ben Franklin | Sep 8, 2014 8:59:47 PM | 46

Sorry. This is the one.

http://monthlyreview.org/browse-the-archives/articles-by-subject/

Posted by: Ben Franklin | Sep 8, 2014 9:00:47 PM | 47

It seems Col Lang didn't like my comment...!

C. Tuttle

a "western diplomat" interviewed in Jerusalem. Would this be Dan Shapiro, the Likudnik US ambassador to Israel? I find it hard to believe that Israeli spy satellites have capabilities that the US has not. A crock. pl

He hasn't published my responses to Fred and him, about Narus and Verint's insidious backdoors...! What was the Israeli involvement in collecting U.S. communications intel for NSA?

Israeli high-tech firms Verint and Narus have had connections with U.S. companies and Israeli intelligence in the past, and ties between the countries' intelligence agencies remain strong.

And, Wired... Shady Companies With Ties to Israel Wiretap the U.S. for the NSA


Posted by: CTuttle | Sep 8, 2014 9:23:05 PM | 48

all the most backward, poorest, least successful people in the country – got together in one place, declared an independent republic, and took up arms? What would you do? You could let them go. But then you’d lose all that land and its industrial capacity

I haven't read that whole lrb article, but where does the author get off calling the most productive people in Ukraine - those in the Donbas who provide the lion's share of GDP - "the most backward, poorest, least successful people in the country"?

Is that really the gist of the article? Because it sounds downright fascistic.

Posted by: guest77 | Sep 8, 2014 9:32:37 PM | 49

Btw, I had the pleasure of hosting Prof. Cole yesterday on his new book...! ;-)

FDL Book Salon Welcomes Juan Cole, The New Arabs: How the Millennial Generation is Changing the Middle East

He and I didn't see eye-to-eye on a bunch of his observations(like R2P actions in Syria and Libya), in the phone calls we'd had leading up to it...! ;-)

Why do I keep being labelled as a 'crackpot'...? ;-)

Posted by: CTuttle | Sep 8, 2014 9:33:40 PM | 50

"But then you’d lose all that land and its industrial capacity"

As if it would be anything without the people living and working there.

I seriously hope that anyone who thinks like this - probably the entire "Google generation" - burns. And they may just, with the world they are creating.

The ascension of Hilary to be President, or even now apparently an arch-Zionist like lovable Elizabeth Warren (not to mention the fiends that are surely waiting in the wings of the Republican party) I think really spell America's doom.

They will all double down on the war, the hatred and the lies. And then its really only a matter of time until the nuclear missiles start flying... But then we all remember the scene from Dr. Strangelove: we'll all be dead while the oligarchs are enjoying their "ratio of ten females for each male".

Posted by: guest77 | Sep 8, 2014 9:39:33 PM | 51

@51 If the females are anything like Clinton, Warren, Nuland, Powers et al the oligarchs are welcome.

Posted by: dh | Sep 8, 2014 9:50:43 PM | 52

Dr. Strangelove: we'll all be dead while the oligarchs are enjoying their "ratio of ten females for each male".

*heh* What about those 72 virgins waiting on the flip side, guest...? ;-)

Posted by: CTuttle | Sep 8, 2014 10:05:19 PM | 53

Aah, the good Col. did publish my remarks...! ;-)

Btw, Is Bibi truly that batshit insane as to attack Hizb...?

Posted by: CTuttle | Sep 8, 2014 10:13:03 PM | 54

Chris J. Chung
唇芒齿寒!Traditional Chinese idiom, "when the lips are gone, the teeth freeze!", and its taken from a historical occurence when one strong state asked permission to go through a smaller state to destroy a neighbouring state. The official to the king there used this idiom and said "If you let this happen, WE would be next!". King didn't listen, took the bribes from the strong state, the neighbour disappeared, and true enough, shortly after that, HE got invaded and disappeared too! Simply put, if Russia goes, next is a surrounded and isolated China, then the USA would truly rule the world! LOL!
http://carnegie.ru/eurasiaoutlook/?fa=56559

Posted by: brian | Sep 8, 2014 10:17:38 PM | 55

Posted by: Demian | Sep 8, 2014 5:40:49 PM | 32

of course

Posted by: brian | Sep 8, 2014 11:11:30 PM | 56

is that the US wants to spread chaos.

Posted by: Demian | Sep 8, 2014 5:40:49 PM | 32

this has always been the USrael goal...why be surprised!

Posted by: brian | Sep 8, 2014 11:12:46 PM | 57

Russian Spring

09/06/2014-15:29

Altready old but revealing message from Yevgeniy Zhilin – a leader of organization “Oplot” (a combatant unit)

I can not claim Yarosh (a leader of “Praviy Sector”) is dead. Our reconnaissance group entered an area, in which the leader of “Praviy Sector” was supposedly resided. Me detained a man, who gave us such information.

The Ministry of Internal Affair (of Ukraine) indirectly collaborates with our organization. The head of the Ministry Arsen Avakov, being afraid of the punitive battalions, conducts active eavesdropping on their command. We are being informed of some conversations.

The state authorities are in such fear of these battalions that send them to death by disclosing their location.

The reconnaissance tracked Yarosh up to a house. “Oplot’s” artillery struck. After that the reconnaissance informed of him being wounded in neck.

So far, Yarosh has not appeared anywhere, his plight is unknown.

Comment: Compare above with today’s article, in which Amnesty International accuses battalion “Aidar” of being too zealous to revenge on civilians:

8 September 2014

Abuses and war crimes by the Aidar Volunteer Battalion

Posted by: Fete | Sep 8, 2014 11:24:18 PM | 58

Batshit crazy Saudi propaganda in the NYT op-ed page. The title is The Saudis Can Crush ISIS. I'm not kidding. The comments are hilarious because nobody is buying it.

Posted by: ess emm | Sep 9, 2014 1:27:36 AM | 59

Cocky sumbitches eh, ess...? ;-)

Posted by: CTuttle | Sep 9, 2014 1:34:29 AM | 60

Really, some of the Saudi claims are priceless

Saudi Arabia is not the source of ISIS, it’s the group’s primary target.

ISIS emerged not from Saudi Arabia but from postwar Iraq and the remnants of Saddam Hussein’s senior officer corps

ISIS follows an ideology that is a continuation of a crude sect known as the Kharijites...the absolute opposite of Saudi Salafism. ISIS’ claim that it is Salafi has no basis.

Saudi Arabia is the only authority in the region with the power and legitimacy to bring ISIS down....the Saudi leadership has a unique form of religious credibility and legitimacy, which will make it far more effective than other governments at delegitimizing ISIS’ monstrous terrorist ideology.

KSA = Islam, apparently.

Posted by: ess emm | Sep 9, 2014 1:39:49 AM | 61

"[O]n March 19, 2003, as the imperial invasion commenced, Cole enthused on his blog: 'I remain (Emphasis mine.) convinced that, for all the concerns one might have about the aftermath, the removal of Saddam Hussein and the murderous Baath regime from power will be worth the sacrifices that are about to be made on all sides.'"

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/30/meet-professor-juan-cole-consultant-to-the-cia/

I also remember Cole arguing, at a fairly late point, for the U.S. to remain in Iraq and to use air power to prevent civil war, or something like that (probably at the very time the U.S. was, in practice, fomenting civil war).

Posted by: RudyM | Sep 9, 2014 1:46:57 AM | 62

canadian shakedown? abuse of power by bad govt

canadian warship appears in black sea provactively near russia...russia sends planes to investigate...canadas Minipeace upset:

'"Canada and its allies[aka NATO] are involved in security measures taken by the acts of military aggression perpetrated by the Putin regime and because of the invasion of Ukraine," he said, calling on Russia to stop its "irresponsible actions."

This ship has about 250 crew on board and is participating in Operation Reassurance from Sept. 6 to 27 along with several vessels from other nations.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-military-plane-circles-hmcs-toronto-in-black-sea-1.2759843

1. black sea is thousands of miles from canada...imagine a russian ship off its coast with the same excuse
2. russia hasnt invaded anyone...next to its territory is a civil war waged by fascists
3. there is noting reassuring seeing a foreign and potentially hostile warship
4. what is ths 'operation reassurance? what/who are they reassuring? the fascists?

amazing cheek: what is russia doing off its own coast?!
'The Russians view themselves as having domain in this part of the world, he said, but Canada has a presence there to support its allies.'
under international law,,.russia HAS domain there...US hasnt Canada hasnt
The media write this up as russia is the aggressor....so when will canadians take the leaders to task?

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 1:48:28 AM | 63

@1james
Your link fails as well as all connections to story found via google to ria novosti. Actually beginning to think paranoid thoughts as opposed to just routine unplanned failure of site or dns.

Posted by: YY | Sep 9, 2014 1:58:41 AM | 64

O canada! the land of truth courage and integrity!

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 2:13:25 AM | 65

Rudy @61 I did ask Prof. Cole about it, and his Leftist gatekeeper role, on the phone, not in the Salon, but, he did tip his cap to me...!
Juan Cole September 7th, 2014 at 4:00 pm
77

Thanks again for being such a good and provocative host. Much appreciated! Aloooha.

Posted by: CTuttle | Sep 9, 2014 2:27:53 AM | 66

Dutch Safety Board – Release of Report at 08:00 UTC

Tuesday 9 September, 10 AM local time AMSTERDAM (08:00 UTC)

That will be one hour from now!

Posted by: Oui | Sep 9, 2014 2:54:02 AM | 67

on the same frequency as Cold...the BBC is first up with its new preDutchreport MH17 lies...sorry report
says it has 'eyewitnesses'...wonder how much they cost?

'Russians were operating a BUK missile launcher seen in the area where the Malaysia Airlines passenger jet MH17 was shot down, eyewitnesses have told Panorama.'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29109398

now no idea who these 'eyewitnesses' Sweeney claims he interviewed...guess we have to take his and the UK state median BBCs word!

no wonder scotland is keen to leave!

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 3:23:41 AM | 68

@brian #67:

The English are the worst non-east European Russophobes. (I must admit that I can't be offended by American Russophobes like Cold. Unlike English Russophobia, American Russophobia is not deep-rooted.)

Posted by: Demian | Sep 9, 2014 3:30:52 AM | 69

Russian Market ‏@russian_market 14m
That very lovely moment when @carlbildt who wants to sanction Russia and especially Gazprom used to work for Gazprom http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6245015.stm

back in 2007....!

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 3:48:43 AM | 70

Preliminary Report MH17 – pdf download

Posted by: Oui | Sep 9, 2014 4:13:10 AM | 71

sounds like machine gun fire from the uke fighter jets in the vicinity....

"The MH17 crash was a result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that struck the Boeing from the outside, the preliminary report into the Malaysia Airlines disaster in Ukraine said.

“Flight MH17 with a Boeing 777-200 operated by Malaysia Airlines broke up in the air probably as the result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside,” the Dutch Safety Board said in its preliminary report.

Dutch investigators added that “there are no indications” that the tragedy was triggered “by a technical fault or by actions of the crew.” "
from rt here.

Posted by: james | Sep 9, 2014 4:14:43 AM | 72

not sure how the buk missiles work..

Posted by: james | Sep 9, 2014 4:15:29 AM | 73

The anti-Russian bias is not so hard to wade through, and there's a lot of stuff in that LRB report that sounds very honest, including your first blockquote but also this:

In mid-March representatives of the post-Maidan Ministry of the Interior visited Donetsk. They met with civic leaders but most of all they met with the football ultras, and demanded that they arm themselves and prepare for battle against the pro-Russian forces in the city.

Menendez was furious. The government was coming to his city and trying to get football hooligans to beat up protesters. ‘Resolving conflicts – that’s what government is for. If you’re incapable of that, you’re not a government, you’re a profanation. Either from ignorance of the situation, or from understanding it full well, they were igniting a civil war.’

Menendez wanted to set up a dialogue with the pro-Russian activists, but his fellow pro-unity organisers wanted another rally.

Posted by: fairleft | Sep 9, 2014 4:18:56 AM | 74

Dutch Safety Board: Investigation crash MH17, 17 July 2014 Donetsk

Preliminary report points towards external cause of MH17 crash

No evidence of technical faults

Flight MH17 with a Boeing 777-200 operated by Malaysia Airlines broke up in the air probably as the result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside. This is mentioned in the preliminary report on the investigation into the crash of MH17 that has been published today by the Dutch Safety Board. There are no indications that the MH17 crash was caused by a technical fault or by actions of the crew.

At the link you can find a link to the report (pdf).

Posted by: Demian | Sep 9, 2014 4:21:21 AM | 75

upon looking at the article and info more closely from the bbc, it seems "buk missile" is the conclusion..another year for the 'full' report..

Posted by: james | Sep 9, 2014 4:21:41 AM | 76

Posted by: guest77 | Sep 8, 2014 9:32:37 PM | 49

That wasn't his opinion. He was summarizing (and criticizing) the perspective of the fashionable middle class and upper middle class Maidan protesters.

Posted by: fairleft | Sep 9, 2014 4:22:22 AM | 77

Here is what the "Damage" section of the report says:

Damage observed on the forward fuselage and cockpit section of the aircraft appears to indicate that there were impacts from a large number of high-energy objects from outside the aircraft.

The pattern of damage observed in the forward fuselage and cockpit section of the aircraft was not consistent with the damage that would be expected from any known failure mode of the aircraft, its engines or systems.

The fact that there were many pieces of aircraft structure distributed over a large area, indicated that the aircraft broke up in the air.

The report does not mention any other part of the plane exhibiting impacts from high-energy objects. I think this is significant, because a Buk missile explodes over an aircraft, not in front of it.

No wonder investigators want to go back to the crash site.

Posted by: Demian | Sep 9, 2014 4:34:04 AM | 78

paula slier and RT r reporting on MH17 right now

RT ‏@RT_com 9m
#MH17 PROBE: Puncture holes suggest small objects entered from above level of cockpit floor http://on.rt.com/ejtt3e

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 4:35:35 AM | 79

Ok so we can now remove the missile theory/buk theory. Either a junta plane and/or junta ground artillery OR rebel artillery shot it down.

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 9, 2014 4:37:37 AM | 80

from BBC (whole article):
MH17 crash: Dutch experts say numerous objects hit plane

Dutch experts say Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crashed after being hit by "numerous objects" that "pierced the plane at high speed".

A report released by the Dutch Safety Board said there was "no evidence of technical or human error".

All 298 people on board died when the plane came down, amid reports it was shot down by pro-Russian rebels.

The plane was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it crashed in eastern Ukraine.

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 9, 2014 4:41:51 AM | 81

brian

"RT ‏@RT_com 9m
#MH17 PROBE: Puncture holes suggest small objects entered from above level of cockpit floor ">http://on.rt.com/ejtt3e"

This is HIGHLY interesting, we all know what that means, that a junta plane shot it down.

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 9, 2014 4:42:06 AM | 82

RT ‏@RT_com 34m
#MH17 REPORT: Data from both data recorders stopped
at 13:20:03 hrs. No distress messages were received http://on.rt.com/ejtt3e

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 4:46:15 AM | 83

Russian Market ‏@russian_market 18m
Meanwhile @BarrosoEU on BBC says someone leaked his conversation with Putin and took out of context the phrase: "I'll take Kiev in 2 weeks"

wonder who?

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 4:53:55 AM | 84

Alexander Nekrassov ‏@StirringTrouble 26m
Is the Dutch Safety Board taking the p..s with its 'many high-energy objects' bringing down #MH17 ? That's called 'bullets', you morons!

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 4:59:50 AM | 85

scientific reports find it best to avoid plain engilsh...the danger is they might be understood by the masses!

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 5:01:13 AM | 86

@81
NOTE the re;port so fafr agrees with the canadian OSCE guy NOT BBCs sweeney with his nameless (it was the russians) 'eyewitnesses'

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 5:05:19 AM | 87

brian

Exactly, some parts is very weirdly written, some gaps, especially since they will not show the source material/documents.

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 9, 2014 5:06:15 AM | 88

@77
anyone know if BUKS fire 'a number of high-energy objects'? snigger

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 5:07:39 AM | 89

chinese news already on the report
China Xinhua News ‏@XHNews 10m
MH17 brought down by external forces, no signs of technical failure or crew mistakes, Dutch investigators

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 5:13:35 AM | 90

RT ‏@RT_com 10m
LIVE: Malaysian transport minister speaks on preliminary #MH17 probe results http://rt.com/on-air/

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 5:16:55 AM | 91

notice report says 'objects' NOT 'object'

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 5:19:31 AM | 92

In fact I take back my #79 post, I dont know how missiles work.

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 9, 2014 5:19:51 AM | 93

@92
not like 'many high-energy objects'

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 5:26:23 AM | 94

brian

Yes I thought that meant bullets from a plane etc but I didnt know that there are "bullets" inside in some missiles that can cause this kind of result.

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 9, 2014 5:30:44 AM | 95

@brian #93:

No, actually, Buk missiles do fire those. But the projectiles that Buk missiles fire would probably make holes that are differently shaped than the holes that bullets make. Also, as I said before, a Buk missile explodes over an aircraft. This was pointed out at that Russian military briefing on MH17.

Posted by: Demian | Sep 9, 2014 5:33:22 AM | 96

Of course, the article, especially its dreary, dissipative tone, shows the author completely missed the main thing that was really going on while he was there. The real mood of the region and its fighters must've been in large part anger and determination (sparked by the Ukrainians' bombardment of civilians), as demonstrated by the counteroffensive, which showed the Novorossiyans were far from dissipated, delusional and 'depressed'.

He missed all of that, or more likely 'missed' it because it didn't fit his 'these poor slobs rebellion will all come to its inevitable sad ending soon' mood piece. Still, the piece contains some of the truth of the post-Maidan story in the east, just maybe not the most important part, and makes important observations I haven't seen in mainstream Western publications before.

Posted by: fairleft | Sep 9, 2014 5:33:49 AM | 97

Nina Byzantina ‏@NinaByzantina 15h
#Russia to accept refugees from Edinburgh if #ScotlandDecides in favor of independence. ;) ;) ;)#Putin

only these would flee to england!

Posted by: brian | Sep 9, 2014 5:43:39 AM | 98

Posted by: james | Sep 9, 2014 4:15:29 AM | 72

The preliminary report does not say anything that was not known before - presumably the Dutch safety board stick to their competence - which is aircraft regulation.

"A large number of high-energy objects that struck the Boeing from the outside" can be a fragmentation warhead or a board cannon - all they want to say is that the plane did not explode exclusively from inside.

The second point - which was also known before - is where the Dniepopetrovsk air control directed the flight

According to ATC data, at 12.53 hrs the aircraft was flying within the Dnipropetrovs’k FIR, Control Sector 2, at FL330, controlled by Dnipro Control. At that time, Dnipro Control asked whether MH17 was able to climb to FL350 in accordance with the flight plan of MH17 and also to clear a potential separation conflict with other traffic in the area, another Boeing 777 flying at FL330 and approaching from behind. The crew replied they were unable to comply and requested to maintain at FL330. This was agreed by Dnipro Control. As an alternative to solve the separation conflict, the other traffic climbed to FL350. According to ATC data, at 13.00 hrs the crew of flight MH17 requested to divert the track 20 NM to the left, due to weather. This also was agreed by Dnipro Control, after which the crew requested whether FL340 was available. Dnipro control informed MH17 that FL340 was not available at that moment and instructed the flight to maintain FL330 for a while. At 13.07 hrs the flight was transferred to Dnipropetrovs’k CTA 4, also with call sign Dnipro Control. At 13.19:53 hrs, radar data showed that the aircraft was 3.6 NM north of centreline of airway L980 having deviated left of track, when Dnipro Control directed the crew to alter their route directly to waypoint RND due to other traffic. The crew acknowledged at 13.19:56 hrs. At 13.20:00 hrs, Dnipro Control transmitted an onward ATC clearance to proceed direct to TIKNA after RND, no acknowledgement was received

RND is Rostov on Don, Russia.

I guess the issue to inquire into is the Integrated civil-military air traffic management system of Ukraine

The German regulation for example is

In states of tension and defence, however, the armed forces are entitled to perform air traffic control functions in Germany.

So, was Dnipro control civil or military?

Posted by: somebody | Sep 9, 2014 5:43:54 AM | 99

@fairleft #96:

Yes, and it's also interesting that the LRB went with that title, which unambiguously expresses a desire for genocide. As I said before, the main thing I don't like about that piece is that it obscures the hatred of Russians, as opposed to the working class, which underlies western Ukrainians' hatred of southern Ukrainians.

Posted by: Demian | Sep 9, 2014 5:44:34 AM | 100

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