Very good questions indeed, especially in the age of programmed mis- and dis-information. I look here, I look at the English version of Pravda, I look ay RIA Novosti, I look at the Vineyard of the Saker, and I look at Robin Westenra’s Seemorerocks on blogger, and I scan widely. There are very few sources that aren’t biased in some way or in the grip of something or someone. One can always read the Western/propaganda sites, not that there isn’t any of that on the other side. I don’t speak the languages or have any close friends who do or who are anywhere near the place. Same goes for other issues and locales.

Posted by: Ed | Aug 2 2014 17:54 utc | 3

I have seen everything from kiev military desertions to kiev ballistic missles possibly targeting chemical plants in the future to cause mass civilian casualties. Maybe kiev and its handlers are trying to get their ducks in a row, thus very little dicussions about Ukraine and the mh17 flight recorders which I last heard were in the UK.

Posted by: really | Aug 2 2014 18:26 utc | 5

What are the goals?
Here from Kyiv Post – Imagining Donbas vote for Ukraine’s parliament

Accelerated parliamentary elections apparently are now scheduled by President Petro Poroshenko for October this year.
No one should discount the possibility of the makeup of the next Rada showing a nearly a 50-50 divide, similar to that marking all previous regimes in the independent Ukraine. This divide essentially exists into this day, with deputies now committed to the oligarchs able to swing the outcomes. Having little choice after the ouster of Yanukovych, they have swung to shape a pro-Ukrainian majority.
Looking with open eyes, it is impossible to deny that elections for Ukraine’s parliament in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, if they take place there, would be for a party agenda similar to that of the Party of Regions.
…
As long as large population centers in Donbas are under rebel control, they will not take part in the next parliamentary elections, and will not help split Ukraine.
On the same arena comes the subject of Ukrainian army casualties in the east: over 363 killed and 1300 wounded as of the end of July 2014. The Kremlin wants nothing less than keeping up this pace. Its supply of armaments for pro-Russian insurgents to keep the war going is common knowledge.
From a Ukrainian point of view, the question is not what would be best (the pace of war is hardly under Kyiv’s control), but rather what options not to take. Attempts to crush the rebels in their city stronghold would be countered by more firepower from Russia, including direct across-border shelling.
Hypothetically, reconquering all of Donbas would open a plethora of problems for Ukraine’s democratic government, how to accommodate the traditionally pro-Russian population that basically despises Ukraine not of their own making, with Russian civilization attributes.
Perhaps the best realizable outcome could be a semi-permanent ceasefire if all sides would be willing to accept it. After all, a ceasefire in Korea has held a long time. Or think of Transnistria, and don’t reject it out of hand

It was clear from the “Pravy Sektor work for Russia” that this is a civil war to get rid of the pro Russian part of Ukraine.
Just the backers of these people did not seem to know.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 2 2014 18:46 utc | 7

I generally support Russia’s efforts against whatever neoliberal massacrists the US is supporting, but I wonder what will happen to the population of Novorossiya if it survives. Will it be a sad corrupt little place like Transnistria or Chechnya? Will it continue the corruption of the Ukraine before?
It would be great if Putin could set up good governance there, certainly the Ukraine option would be worse, but if the people of Ukraine could see how a proper state that wasn’t 100% based on bribery and insider dealing, it would be very good.

Posted by: Crest | Aug 2 2014 19:11 utc | 9

I think the east is winning at this point
1., The junta has renewed drive for conscription
2., there is Junta talk with East in Minks [Belorussia]
3., Putative call by Obama to Putin, suggesting peace effort
4., US duplicity: sending armaments to East

Posted by: NMS | Aug 2 2014 20:00 utc | 11

○ Latest from the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) to Ukraine, based on information received as of 18:00 hrs, 1 August 2014 (Kyiv time)
The SMM, together with Australian and Dutch experts, visited the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17. The convoy comprised 25 vehicles, including a bus and two mobile ambulances. The crossing of territories controlled by Ukrainian government or the so-called “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”) or the so-called “Luhansk People’s Republic” (“LPR”) went smoothly and was well organized. The SMM observed a new checkpoint positioned at Mius (14 km south-east of Debaltseve). At the Ukrainian checkpoint in Debaltseve (70 km north-east of Donetsk), the agreed ceasefire seemed to hold. About 10 kilometres south of Mius, the SMM was met by an “LPR” escort, and drove to the main wreckage site.
The SMM saw several instances of artillery impacts at 7–10 kilometres southwest of the crash site between 13:03-14:19hrs. The expert teams recovered some human remains. The Australian expert team wanted to operate an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) in order to access areas such as fields, without damaging them. However, neither the “LPR” nor “DPR” representatives agreed to UAV use. After about five hours, the SMM left the site. The Australian and Dutch expert teams then left for Soledar (98 km northeast of Donetsk), where a forward operating base has been established. This base, closer to the crash site than Donetsk, will now become the main forward hub for investigative activity.
○ MH-17 Joint Dutch/Australian Forward Operating Base in Soledar – Aug. 2, 2014

Posted by: Oui | Aug 2 2014 20:32 utc | 13

@13 It’s hot there too remember. There may be problems getting a steady supply of Fosters.

Posted by: dh | Aug 2 2014 20:46 utc | 15

The militia reported that they downed 4 aircraft supplying food and ammunition to the Ukrainian troops in the southern Cauldron. The Ukrainians reported they lost 7 such aircraft. Weird. I would expect the Ukrainians to under report losses.

Posted by: Yonatan | Aug 2 2014 21:09 utc | 17

Hello,
for news on Ukraine, this is the very best source I found: http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Abdelnour | Aug 2 2014 21:32 utc | 19

US to train ukraine army
http://rt.com/usa/177520-california-ukraine-obama-military/

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 2 2014 21:33 utc | 21

@16 ‘Why didn’t the investigators access the crash site via Russia?’ Because Putin would have gained brownie points.

Posted by: dh | Aug 2 2014 21:45 utc | 23

@17 There were probably only 2 planes, but the separatists over inflated their win. The Kiev regime likely promised 5 planes, so naturally 7 had to be shot down when only 1.5 planes worth of expired cough medicine was ever in the air. Morale has to be kept up after all.

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Aug 2 2014 22:12 utc | 25

@18 puppetmaster
There are a number of factions at work here, often at cross-purposes. To ignore the objectives of certain oligarchs in this crisis is to ignore where the real power resides in the Ukraine. According to Colonel Cassad an attempt to partition eastern Ukraine was already attempted.
(Colonel Cassad) The Vineyard of the Saker
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/07/what-makes-strelkov-feel-melancholy.html
-In doing this, Strelkov thwarted the secret negotiations being conducted between Surkov’s people and the people of Akhmetov and Kolomoiskiy (through Kurginyan’s people). The gist of these negotiations was an attempt by near-Kremlin circles to coordinate with the Ukrainian oligarchs the question of a “large Transnistria,” to be fashioned out of the Lugansk and the Donetsk Republics,
-As soon as Strelkov’s retreat from Slavyansk scuttled the secret negotiations, hostilities across the entire front sharply activated – Ukrainian oligarchs, who were contact with Moscow, immediately became the targets of a mass media campaign. Following contacts between Kolomoiskiy’s deputy, Korban, and a person from Kurginyan’s circles, the campaign against Kolomoiskiy in the Ukrainian mass media took on wide-scale proportions, including even traditional SBU [Ukrainian Security Service] leaks, such as the discussion about the preparation of a harassment campaign against Lyashko, the goal of which was to turn the Nazi radicals against one of their sponsors.
Kolomoisky’s objectives are not necessarily aligned with those of the Ukrainian government. He seems to be intent on carving out his own fiefdom, incorporating the east and south regions of the Ukraine.
‘Kolomoisky is often described as a “third power”, a Ukrainian term meaning “unofficially in charge’. He was instrumental in scuttling the cease-fire negotiated in June between the EU, Russia and the Ukraine because it did not serve his interests.
Ukraine Turf Wars, Kolomoisky vs. Poroshenko
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/14/ukraine-turf-wars-kolomoisky-vs-poroshenko.html
Kolomoisky finds ways to control the Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa and Kharkov regions. At the moment his influence is getting spread around the regions of Donetsk, Zaporozhye, and Nikolaev. He puts forward the idea of dividing the Donetsk region by making separate the Priazov region with Mariupol as its capital… His ambitions go as far as to become the provincial governor of the whole south-east of Ukraine with its two thirds of national GDP. It’ll make President Poroshenko a ‘lame duck” with no leverage to rule the country.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 2 2014 22:35 utc | 27

You want to know who is winning. The first weeks of the “Anti-Terrorist Operation” Kiev kept insisting the show would be over in hours. Ain’t happened that way. Kiev still can’t get an army of any size in the field. Mercenaries are by all accounts still required for Kiev to do much of anything. Kiev is completely willing to use phosphorus, Smerch, 203mm howitzers against civilian targets. But they can’t move enough ammo to the front to do the job they are trying to do. Abundant Youtube videos from the front show Ukrainian forces with horrible morale and DPR/LPR forces with good morale. Abundant videos show citizens in West Ukraine pissed with recruiters. US maintains a full court press on sanctions and every other front they can think of. US public involvement would not be necessary if their proxy were winning. MH17 false flag kinda unnecessary if Ukraine was winning. Every time we see Kerry or Obama they look spooked/surprised by events/unprepared. Borodai/Strelkov/Putin look more and more confident. I’d say it’s clear who is winning. General Winter arrives in 2 or 3 months & Kiev is finished. No deus ex machina short of nukes will save them.

Posted by: JCW | Aug 2 2014 22:54 utc | 29

@NotTimothyGeithner #24:
The rebels say they downed four supply planes. There is no reason to doubt them. Unless one has specific reasons to think otherwise in a given case, one should assume that everything the rebels say is true, and everything the junta says is a lie.
What I don’t understand is why the cornered Ukies don’t just go to Russia instead of starving to death. Maybe they are afraid that other Ukies will shoot them for desertion?
@dahoit #25:
“very very strange” is an understatement. Orwellian is more like it. Not a word on the black boxes since the Brits got their hands on them. Remember the frenzy the media was in about the search for the black boxes from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370? In this case, the black boxes have been found, but there is not a word about what they contain.
We haven’t even been told whether the Ukrainian secret police have given the ATC recordings to the “international investigators”.
Oui, have the Dutch media forgotten about this story like the Anglophone media have?

Posted by: Demian | Aug 2 2014 23:00 utc | 31

It is very difficult to look at a map and get a sense for where the lines are drawn between the two armies. The situation is very fluid with many of the smaller villages and junctions changing hands on a daily basis. But there are some things that seem quite clear. There are three major points.
1) The Ukies launched major offensive operations at the end of June. This was part of the operation that Poroshenko would over in “hours, not days, not weeks”. Well one month later the points of combat has not really changed much except for the rebels losing the cities of Kramatorsk and Slavyansk. These latter two loses are looking more and more like a brilliant tactical retreat by Stelkov. Those troops freed from those two cities are playing a critical role in holding the current lines. There have been only minor changes in those lines in the past week.
2) Poroshenko’s widely publicized campaign to secure the Lugansk-Russian border and create a buffer zone has turned into a debacle. Many of those troops seized a border zone about 30 km with a depth of 2 or 3 km. They, in effect, created this long narrow salient into militia controlled territory. Right now the western end of that salient has been cut off by the militias thereby leaving the troops in a classic cauldron. Basically they are surrounded and cut off from their supply lines. There are about 4000 Ukrainian soldiers in the cauldron and it remains too powerful a force for the militia to overrun their positions. But they are not strong enough to break out. Also the Ukrainians do not seem to have reserve forces to try to break in. It seems their reserves are all tied up fighting the militias around Donetsk. The surrounded troops do have the option of fleeing into Russia but their orders are to stay and fight.
3) Early on the Ukrainians captured the Lughansk airport and have heavily reinforced the troops there. However, the militias have surrounded it and are preventing supplies from coming in over land. Again they are too powerful for the militias to overrun their positions, but they are not strong enough to break out.
All in all, the militias are doing extremely well. If all of those surrounded troops decide to surrender it would be the loss of 6000 troops to Ukraine. The most intense fighting is north and south of Donetsk and that seems to be where the Ukrainians are focusing their energy. The militias do not seem to have the ability to take on concentrated offensives but they seem to be retreating then counter-attacking the exposed flanks. Here is the results of one of those actions cassad at Shakhtyorsk that I think was one of those counter actions.

Posted by: ToivoS | Aug 3 2014 0:16 utc | 33

@15 If Aussies ask for Fosters, they’d be fake agents. Same goes for the Dutch if they ask for Heiniken (though not so much).

Posted by: YY | Aug 3 2014 0:36 utc | 35

re b’s question ‘ukraine – what is the situation?’
if you take a wide angle view on this, it reminds me of the ongoing ground wars in places like columbia which coincidentally have had usa involvement from the get go..
i think this is exactly what the usa/military industrial complex has wanted – ongoing strife and warfare on russia’s doorstep with the thought of pulling russia into it.. then nato will have a valid excuse to go into ukraine… this seems to be where we are headed with every provocative act from mh17 to scud missiles and etc. etc. all aimed at pulling russia in.. russia so far has not bit the bait… so the bait will continue to be up’d .. bombing the eastern ukraine residents indiscriminately is also a part of this..
porky is obviously working for these same polluted interests, as is his partner in crime kolominiski or however you spell the dip-shits name.. they are least interested in the well being of the general population of the ukraine – and they share this same sentiment with these same usa military types that are completely focused on a bullshit operation in yet another faraway country they have no honest business being in.. well, they have lots of dishonest reasons to be in ukraine and that is why they are their, but there is no integrity to any of these characters.. they are for war 24/7 until they gain complete control and power over any adversary.. their biggest adversary is integrity too, lol… relying on ignorance is never a recipe for success.. ordinary people can smell a rat and they have lots of them to choose from in leading positions at present in the ukraine..

Posted by: james | Aug 3 2014 3:16 utc | 37

… well, they have lots of dishonest reasons to be in ukraine and that is why they are their, but there is no integrity to any of these characters.. they are for war 24/7 until they gain complete control and power over any adversary.. their biggest adversary is integrity too, lol.. relying on ignorance is never a recipe for success.. ordinary people can smell a rat and they have lots of them to choose from in leading positions at present in the ukraine.
Posted by: james | Aug 2, 2014 11:16:21 PM | 35
Your entire post is oh so true. Your “their biggest adversary is integrity” line was the most poignant verse I read today…funny to boot.

Posted by: really | Aug 3 2014 3:50 utc | 39

Antiwar Protests Spreading in Ukraine as Government Wages All-Out War in the Southeast and NATO Threatens Russia

A rising wave of antiwar and anti-conscription protest is taking place in cities and towns across western Ukraine. The protests are prompted by the announcement of Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko ten days ago that a “third” military mobilization is now required for the war that his governing regime began waging against the population of eastern Ukraine three months ago. Kyiv calls the war an “anti-terrorist operation.” …
Kyiv is in a race to defeat the rebellion before the crippling cost of it all as well as rising antiwar protests and army desertions bring its offensive to a halt. It also has to worry about anticipated revolts by the Ukraine population as a whole once the harsh consequences of the economic association agreement that Kyiv signed with the European Union on June 30 bite deeper and deeper.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 3 2014 4:45 utc | 41

The military situation is a desaster if the plan is to cut off and enter Donetsk. The Daily Telegraph map does not show the Russian border to the back of the Ukrainian army.
Daily Telegraph – Rebels prepare to defend Donetsk
It is never the military alone that wins a war – it is the whole media, diplomacy, political effort.
In that respect, I don’t see how the Kyiv government can win a Grosny like Donetsk street fight.
The game is forcing Russia to enter Ukraine “protecting Russian speakers” as promised by Putin and destabilize Russia along the way, alternatively delegitimizing the Kyiv government by war crimes (but at the same time forcing Russia to act).
Russia can keep the border open to “private support groups” without officially entering the conflict – much like Turkey does in Syria. If necessary they can do a “responsibility to protect act”.
Europe will then have to find a way out of self crippling sanctions.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 3 2014 6:36 utc | 43

#43 I am certainly no resident expert but I do have the ability to analyze large bodies of data and make a few educated guesses on what it might mean. One of the skills required of a good analyst is to filter out the bullshit before wasting precious thought. AndyK was just bringing up some stuff that didn’t pass the initial filter. I politely informed him of his bogus information.
BTW, what makes you think I am part of this cabal of “Zio-police”? Weird thing to say. My comment in this thread, for example, is just an excellent summary of the military situation in the Donbas — it has nothing to do with Zionism.

Posted by: ToivoS | Aug 3 2014 8:03 utc | 45

@ #44
No – it was not polite in any shape or form – it was an arrogant & condescending post made by someone who thought that it is his right to set the agenda.
In your post @ #31 you provide a link the Cassad site which is exactly were I got my link to the “Voice of Sevastapol” – so you obviously consider Cassad to be reliable but not the sites he links to. You realize this makes you look a complete cockhead.
@ #44

My comment in this thread, for example, is just an excellent summary of the military situation in the Donbas

– I just love the self assessment – you just can’t make this stuff up.

Posted by: AndyK | Aug 3 2014 8:27 utc | 47

Now back to where we were before the derailment.
Is there any credibility in this Voice of Sevastopol report?
But more significantly:-
Is there any partisan activity behind the ‘lines’?
If so how far west does this activity extend?
This has huge potential to affect outcomes on the battlefield, both immediate & long term. The Ukraine is a big country with long supply lines, so any campaign to disrupt should be a priority. I am sure that there are plenty of sympathizers to the Novorussiya cause in the western oblasts.

Posted by: AndyK | Aug 3 2014 8:45 utc | 49

Posted by: ThePaper | Aug 3, 2014 4:40:07 AM | 48
The “Kyiv government” has a few economic problems, one of them how to pay for their war.
The IMF is still supporting the war – this will become untenable at some stage though.
Above link even mentions “debt restructuring”, that will be the end of those Ukraine bonds …

Posted by: somebody | Aug 3 2014 9:12 utc | 51

@ Demian #29
“’very very strange’ is an understatement. … Not a word on the black boxes since the Brits got their hands on them.”
Not so strange: The international investigators have problems to get access to the site with the remains of the plane. Therefore, the analysis of the data in the black boxes has to wait until it can be harmonized with the findings on site. (Feel free to add quotation marks around the words “analysis”, “harmonized”, and “findings”).
The analysis of the blackboxes of the downed aircraft in Mali is already finished, of course. There was no problem of harmonizing the findings with any theory, so that was much easier and quicker done.

Posted by: Non | Aug 3 2014 9:52 utc | 53

German pilot:

I recommend to click on the little picture to the right. You can download this photo as a PDF in good resolution. This is necessary, because that will allow you understand what I am describing here. The facts speak clear and loud and are beyond the realm of speculation: The cockpit shows traces of shelling! You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likeley that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile.

Posted by: Maracatu | Aug 3 2014 10:49 utc | 55

And this is the most intriguing/conspiratorial part of the article you just posted:

However, it remains unclear if the Dutch-led investigation team had secured the recordings from the Ukrainian air traffic controllers to match the conversations between the ATC staff and the MH17 flight crew.

Given the reported confiscation of those recording by Ukrainian security service.

Posted by: ThePaper | Aug 3 2014 11:01 utc | 57

Slightly off, but still concerning Ukraine – Re: Malaysia flights (2) taken out/down, full pax, both having scientist/academia relevant to pandemic/disease on board, then we have odd reports of Ebola not just in Africa but Germany, the US both taking in infected! As far as I know this is not a norm or part of any protocol from any agency, the norm is containment at location, one could say this is such in Ukraine, no one can get in. It has been explained as: This will be the first ‘purposeful’ transport of an Ebola victim to the U.S. The first Malay plane just went of the radar; end of story, and it really is, nada on that since. Ebola and HIV two different viruses share a common budding mechanism, the Tsg101 protein, both flights has pax working on one or the other. If NPC cholesterol genes are non functional human cells are resistant to contracting Ebola and HIV-AIDS, but if that was the case you will die of something else. Example: looks like the NPC1 gene on Chromosome 18 is some type of master controller for various viruses and NPC kids are seemingly protected from certain viruses due to their genetic cholesterol defect. Could all this be a part of the population culling need? (Love the series ‘Utopia’ based on a like concept with factual population crisis on food security, energy and water).
Odd – WHO advises no flight restrictions, low risk from Ebola – IATA. So why advise, again it is not the norm, especially for WHO! Just in to make everything feel good: NEW YORK (MYFOXNY) –
The New York City Department of Health conducted a massive emergency preparedness drill at 30 facilities across the city on Friday.
They tested the delivery of emergency medications in the event of a biological attack, such as anthrax, or other large-scale public health emergency in the city. The majority of the deliveries will take place to public school buildings.
It’s the largest surprise drill in the city’s history. The drill was scheduled to take place from approximately 6:30 a.m. until 3:00 p.m. The majority of participants were given no notice to better test and simulate a real emergency and response.

Posted by: JJ | Aug 3 2014 11:56 utc | 59

So what is really the military and political situation? Is there a reliable side or source for information on it?
Like Ed up top at 3, I went round and about most of the morning, and read more of the Saker, the Reddit live feed, AlJazz, many others, than I wished to.
What struck me – and this is not more than mildly interesting – was the mix of language, which veers from the plain descriptive, hard to fit into a larger context (Strelkov for ex., like WW2 bulletins) to sort of strategic talk (Donesk being ‘encircled’ in the Escobar piece and elsewhere) to empty statements and propaganda.
Hard to make out what exactly this ‘war’ is, it is treated variously as a rebel-opposition-terrorist guerrilla type action; a war between two regions as two separate entities, as if the Donbass had its own gvmt., army and ppl behind it – clash of civilizations style; of course a civil war, a proxy war as well, etc.
So I’m confused, the media is confused, except that it is all Putin’s fault, and surely this confusion stretches to the ground, e.g. one does not encircle a town if one is fighting a guerrilla war – but was that ‘news’ real? (No milit. expert me.) No doubt someone will come out and tell me it is all very simple.
Imho if the Kiev coupists were doing well we would see/hear more about it, so they must be having a rough time.
Possibly, the aim is just to let this conflict fester for as long as possible, emptying the region, or letting it break off or rather rot and crumble away, creating an ‘enemy on the doorstep’ – always useful. It is also possible that Kiev and its backers are pretty much flying blind (sic, see MH17) with conflicting plans negotiated between untrustworthy, quarreling partners, jockeying for control.
Russia’s interests are to do nothing, as Putin made the choice long ago. That choice was a compromise, a middle road (perhaps hasty and spurred by events), to take on Crimea but not invade the Donbass.
There is a real fuziness of ‘aim’ in all this, except perhaps for the separatists if one sees them as a revolutionary force with breakaway aims, but with an unclear political agenda.
side bar: The first Ukrainain refugees have arrived here. A thousand ppl crossed just the one border, in Chiasso, last month. Along with the crowds of Syrians, Iraqis, a trickle. They have already been informed (from press, no idea if correct) that they will be processed but in the end repatriated, as the situation in Ukr. does not justify etc.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 3 2014 13:55 utc | 61

Saker reports that a Uke journalist interviewed on a US funded radio station openly called for a genocide against Russian supporters in eastern Ukraine.
So Zionist fanatics not the only ones calling for genocide against their opponents.
A historical footnote. A Gallup poll take in 1945 near the end of WW 2 showed that 20% of the US population favored the total extermination of the Japanese race.
This is what a. steadydiet of hate propaganda can lead to

Posted by: Vollin | Aug 3 2014 14:29 utc | 63

@60 – maybe this will shed some light. You gotta take everything at face value these days but it sounds reasonable to me.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/25322-antiwar-protests-spreading-in-ukraine-as-government-wages-all-out-war-in-the-southeast-and-nato-threatens-russia

Posted by: really | Aug 3 2014 15:06 utc | 65

Link to dahoits post..

Posted by: james | Aug 3 2014 17:27 utc | 67

It is getting very strange now
This here is Barbara Starr, CNN, according to Wikipedia

Starr has received criticism for her reporting, having been called “a spokesperson for The Pentagon.”[2][3]
In June 2013, MSNBC reporter Chris Hayes ran a segment in which he argued that Starr’s publication of leaked information was at least as potentially harmful to national security as those published by Glenn Greenwald of The Guardian. He noted the fact that, unlike with Greenwald, politicians and other prominent figures failed to call for Starr’s prosecution on the basis that Starr’s use of leaked information invariably favoured government interests, implicitly questioning Starr’s independence and arguably even her integrity and status as a journalist.

This here is Barbara Starr, CNN, on Ukraine using short range ballistic missiles.
This is Deutsche Welle saying that NATO confirms it.
This is Deutsche Welle on Ukraine denies.
This is Deutsche Welle on Nato denies Ukrainian use of ballistic missiles.
And now – same Barbara Starr
U.S. official: Spy plane flees Russian jet, radar; ends up over Sweden
supposedly one day after MH17 ie July 18th.
What is the Pentagon trying to do?

Posted by: somebody | Aug 3 2014 18:26 utc | 69

@69 – cnn.. i never go their.. are they an official sponsor corporation to the financial/military industrial complex? haha.. it appears so! i guess they beat out coke for the status.. coke will do wonders, but cnn will blow your mind!

Posted by: james | Aug 3 2014 19:06 utc | 71

This here is a map of Sweden and Russia
The encounter must have taken place over Kaliningrad, if at all.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 3 2014 19:09 utc | 73

Here is the Kind of news one can expect from out of Ukraine – From the Kiev Junta side ..Watch this Keebler elf (a self described “journalist” the Ukraine) call for genocide in the Donbas…He even helpfully provides a round target number of victims(1.5 million)..This is being paid for by the US and EU. This is the kind of “jounalism” and “activism” which agencies like USAID and NED used to create the Maidan riots. They are still subsidizing this Fascist movement and we may expect it to spread from one end of liberal “democracy”-land to the other..I first saw this clip at Cassad’s website a few days ago..The Saker now has it posted
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/08/its-perfectly-simple-you-need-to-kill.html

Posted by: Marc | Aug 3 2014 20:12 utc | 75

That video of the journalist calling for genocide is a fake… Its really part of a half-hour long q@a, and has been edited… Dont bother…
catcherinthelie

Posted by: Dan | Aug 3 2014 20:40 utc | 77

Reading this thread of comments on the intelligent question of where to get reliable information on the uUkrainian conflict I come to this unfortunate conclusion.: there is a lot of misunderstanding of the Ukrainian realities. So I have learned a few very simple rules to help me understand the value of the information.
1. When the writer uses the expression “junta” to describe the Kieve government, I immediately stop reading.
2. Then the writer calls the Kieve government “fascist” I stop reading
3. When the writer suggests that eastern Ukraine want to join Russia, I stop reading.
These are just a few ways you can decide if the writer understands what he’s writing about or whether his agenda is other that thought, informed and fair.
There are other ways we can find out the information on Ukraine but they require going there and looking around.
WL

Posted by: Wilder Lewis | Aug 3 2014 21:03 utc | 79

@79 Wilder Lewis.. good point. i do the same when the words ‘terrorist’ and such like minded terms are used to reference the folks of eastern ukraine.. now, if you stop reading those msm sources who use this term, you will essentially be left high and dry on any relevant news, as robert gordon @76 correctly points out..

Posted by: james | Aug 3 2014 21:36 utc | 81

Posted by: ToivoS | Aug 3, 2014 5:28:45 PM | 80
Actually, you just have to listen to “Kyiv” propaganda to know something does not work out.
Here the Ukrainian defense minister tells the BBC they are fighting 300 “terrorists”.
He also claims the crash site of MH17 is highly strategic – though the villages there lived in absolute peace before the plane came down.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 3 2014 21:50 utc | 83

@acrimonious #84:
LOL.
When I see the Ukraine referred to as a “country” or the Kiev junta referred to as a “government”, I stop reading.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 3 2014 22:18 utc | 85

@79 Wilder Lewis
Ummm…Kieve is a municipality in the Müritz district, in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Germany. I don’t recall anyone claiming their municipal government is either a junta or fascist, at least not in contemporary times.

Posted by: shargash | Aug 4 2014 0:08 utc | 87

obama think he rules the world
now call for regime change in Russia (well not stated)
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/04/373958/obama-lashes-out-at-russian-president/

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 4 2014 8:21 utc | 89

Another news is that Germany stop the building of a training facility in Russia for the russian military worth 100s of millions.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 4 2014 8:39 utc | 91

@28
Yeah when I read about the hunter biden ” burima deal” that just put the cherry on top of shit sundae that is US involvement in Ukraine.
Btw, Kiev is basically calling cnn’s pentagon reporter barbara starr a liar in regards to her report of kiev’s “game changer” use of ballistic missles against eastern ukraine. Kiev denies even possessing ballistic missles. Someone is lying…is it cnn and the pentagon/nato, kiev or both?
Ukraine denies using ballistic missiles
http://m.dw.de/english/mobile.A-17827342-1429.html

Posted by: really | Aug 4 2014 12:13 utc | 93

@90 It’s been confirmed by the Ukrainian military so it must be true. 400 crossed the border leaving their equipment behind. Of course there are several ways to spin it.

Posted by: dh | Aug 4 2014 13:23 utc | 95

Fran posted this on another thread. Looks legit…
http://rt.com/news/177740-ukrainian-military-russia-refuge/
We will probably soon be seeing videos of the abandoned equipment.

Posted by: dh | Aug 4 2014 14:39 utc | 97

The BBC has a piece on it….
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28637569
Mr. Lysenko is working hard to make it look like a strategic victory.

Posted by: dh | Aug 4 2014 18:59 utc | 99