US will NOT work with Assad to fight AQ/ISIS aka Nato's Islamist mercs

So much for "hoping" Obama would work to fight terror with the leadership chosen by the Syrian people?

Posted by: O/T | Aug 7 2014 18:19 utc | 1

Agriculture is exactly the right sector for Putin's response, as today's western leaders seem to have forgotten the importance of their farmers, as both providers and a substantial voting bloc.

Posted by: Jon Lester | Aug 7 2014 18:20 utc | 2

Where are Samantha Power's tears for the brutal crackdown on the peaceful people of the Maidan?

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Aug 7 2014 18:25 utc | 3

thanks b. that is good news on Parubiy's resigning.. i wonder who replaces him?

it is also good news about a ceasefire.. i can't imagine porkoshenkos handlers are happy about that, unless of course they are just gathering together to figure out an alternative and continued military approach. the military approach has to be hands down the quickest way to alienate the people of these areas.. i guess that is what they want to do, or what the imf,nato and the ukrainian oligarchs want the kiev junta to do..

regarding the agriculture sanctions. it will be short term pain for russia, but potential long term gain if russia producers work to fill the void.. short term pain for long term gain - a strange concept that is quite foreign to western ideology!

mike - lol..

Posted by: james | Aug 7 2014 18:46 utc | 4

Greece breaking from the anti-Putin "Coalition of the Retarded Nazis" over Russian counter sanctions.

Oopsie.

As if getting ass-raped by the US/Brussels over the last 5 years wasn't bad enough for the lesser EU members. Nice.

Maybe Russia can annex Greece?

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 7 2014 18:54 utc | 5

The twitter rumor is the "Aidar" battalion has left the front for Kiev, so it's probably time to bomb Iraq.

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Aug 7 2014 18:57 utc | 6

I am sure Russia will import produce and other food stuff from other countries. When Russia stopped importing Apples from Poland Turkey was there in the speed of light to offer to replace Poland. Brazil seems to be selling chickens and Milk and probably milk products. Argentina will be selling meat. And I am sure Russia is also talking to China and other countries to import food.

What I am amazed is, how stupid the western politicians are. Do they really think, when the sanctions stopp Russia will return to Europe as a customer. It will not give up its new network of providers and I am convinced it will take at least a generation for Russia to trust the EU again in Business ventures.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 7 2014 19:00 utc | 7

This is a great update on the state of Empire's aggression in the Ukraine.

Even before Russia dropped retaliatory sanctions on the US and EU however the markets have gone into melt down mode.

From Red Pull Views

"Euro Politicians thought that they fed the Obamanation sanctions lite, enough to make him happy but not enough to hurt their economies.

WRONG.

Germany is a manufacturing nation and that part of their economy fell off 3.2% last month, with orders from abroad, (heavily dependent on Russia and Eastern Europe) down 4.1%. The rest of Europe’s economy, still weak as a kitten is buckling as its juggernaut in Berlin falters."

See the rest here as Sanctions Lite Whacks Germany and Europe :http://www.redpillviews.com/sanctions-lite-whacks-germany-europe/

Posted by: Robert Gorden | Aug 7 2014 19:05 utc | 8

Yeah, Saker sees the Russia move as an unmitigated positive and I agree.

In addition, the US media is screaming that Russia is only hurting itself with this move, so you can guarantee that reality is just the opposite.

Fuckers.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 7 2014 19:05 utc | 9

James #4

a strange concept that is quite foreign to western ideology!

Yes, imagine government support for self-sufficiency rather than undermining domestic production (in some rather hare-brained carrot-stick effort to encourage other countries' "dependency" on markets) and allowing domestic production to be wiped out by dirt-cheap imports (see also the plight of Mexico's farmers).

Apparently, according to the LATimes, stopping poultry imports has a long and storied past. They ceased after the Georgian scuffle. LAT: When the U.S. and Russia tussle, American chickens often pay.

Russia accounts for only 7% of U.S. poultry exports today, down from 20% as recently as 2008 and 40% in the mid-1990s.

Most of the world won't touch our chemical laden poultry (or beef, oh and pork is dodgy as well) but the LATimes cheerfully notes that with domestic beef prices so high, the market for poultry is high ... etc.

http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2012/02/obama-ractopamine-meat-taiwan

Seems like the lying and posturing is so pervasive on all sides, it's hard to gauge ...

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Aug 7 2014 19:08 utc | 10

- The interests of the US don't align with US interests in the region. That's why I think there will develop a rift between Europe & the US.
- Russian sanctions against Europe will weaken the already weakening european economy.
- But rising interest rates in Russia are already taking their toll on the russian economy. (=less demand for imports from Europe).

Posted by: Willy2 | Aug 7 2014 19:10 utc | 11

@7 The Western elite might be cruel, but their cruelty kicked in over 30 years ago. The current elite are the "yes men" brown nosers of the ilk of Kissing, Strauss, and pick any villain of the 1980's. Cameron is just a wannabe Thatcher.

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Aug 7 2014 19:17 utc | 12

Also it was most likely Pairuby who was behind the shoot-down of MH17...I think any reasonable, informed, sane, non -demagogue has to agree that the only evidence at all points to Ukrainian warplanes as the criminals, and Pairuby as (by far) the most probable individual in that wretched "government" to have ordered it...

Posted by: Marc | Aug 7 2014 19:27 utc | 13

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 7, 2014 3:05:17 PM | 9

Yep, and in the end it will hurt the eu and Amerika as Russia just replaces the vendors with friendly countries. Then again the 1% elite want to drive down those same economies. More austerity for Amerika and the eu coming up. I do hope Russia installs the no fly zone for commercial airlines of the west.

b, the last sentence nails it.

Thanks

Posted by: jo6pac | Aug 7 2014 19:27 utc | 14

Apparently ISIS is starving 40000 Yazedis to death on mount Sinjar.
Hello? UN Fing "Human" "Rights" Committee. Allo. Youza Home? Anybody?

If those fucking messianic retards in the White House want to kill people they could at least direct their fucking guns in the right direction instead of killing Ukrainian Russians, Iranians and Syrian minority populations.
Saudi cock sucking douche nozzles. Liberalism and Whahabbism hand in hand Ashes! Ashes!We all Fall Down.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/40000-iraqis-stranded-mountain-isis-death-threat

Posted by: Northern Observer | Aug 7 2014 19:41 utc | 15

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Aug 7, 2014 3:08:55 PM | 10

Most of the world won't touch our chemical laden …[don't forget GMO's also] but the LATimes cheerfully notes that with domestic beef prices so high, the market for poultry is high ... etc.

I think the cause of prices can be attributed to about half the continental US being under some regime of drought. It is surprising to those unaccustomed to awareness to realize the relationship between food production and prices. For the last several years the national beef herd has been severely reduced due to lack of forage and feed. Reduced herd => high prices (a basic economic equation).

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 7 2014 19:56 utc | 16

US agribusiness is likely to be hardest hit by Russian sanctions, food has always been a major US export.

Russia's real trump card, as PC Roberts points out at Counterpunch, is that it controls the flow of energy into Europe. And much of it goes through Ukraine.

We are still at the "phoney war" stage.

What will Pairuby do next? Will it be Valhalla or a Senior Scholarship at the American Enterprise Institute?

Posted by: bevin | Aug 7 2014 19:58 utc | 17

@16
You make good points. If Russia is really lucky Monsanto and their fellows will join the boycott and Russia will develop its own food supply in time to start exporting to California where, by all accounts, the drought is really bad.
Agriculture is one area in which the BRICS nations can do very well without the US

Posted by: bevin | Aug 7 2014 20:06 utc | 18

http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Will-Putin-Realize-That-Ru-by-Paul-Craig-Roberts-Energy_Putin_Russia_Will-Power-140806-71.html

Paul Craig Roberts sums up Putin's trump card pretty well. Thanks Mr. Roberts.

Posted by: really | Aug 7 2014 20:08 utc | 19

@10 susan. thanks for your comments. i was unaware of many of the details around poultry. us food is often heavily subsidized by the us gov't - corn, probably poultry and etc, as i understand it... a lot of it is run by corporate agrabiz -adm, cargill, monsanto and etc.

geez it would be a huge blessing if canada suffered a boycott by that fucked up company monsanto! if russia or any country is bright enough to turn out their lights - kudos to them..

Posted by: james | Aug 7 2014 20:24 utc | 20

Posted by: bevin | Aug 7, 2014 3:58:41 PM | 17

Some easy research may provide answers to some questions:

What is the size of agricultural production annually in the US?
What is the size of agricultural production outside livestock production annually in the US?
What is the size of grain and foodstuff production annually in the US?
What market is there for this production?
Who are the major players in this market?
How much of the market is controlled by the top 10 agricultural buyers? Top 5 buyers?
How many of these buyers are public companies? What is their income and profit from public records?
How many of these buyers are privately held? Why are they not required to provide information about their income and profits? How does this distort needed public information about this market?
What can be done?

Duhmericans are all to unaware of their world and presume to make decisions concerning it. This is just another example of that process at work. This will not end well.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 7 2014 20:47 utc | 21

"Russia has enough land, people and resources to produce everything it needs."

Then why do they still have to import food? Because they lack the ability to use the resources that God gave them...

Posted by: ralphieboy | Aug 7 2014 20:50 utc | 22

This supports something I suspected from the first day of the Poroshenko government and that was he did not control the ministries that were set up after the coup. Basically his government was largely being run by the neo-Nazis. It was not at all clear if he had the power to thwart their influence. It was quite irrelevant what he thought, without power he would be forced to follow the prowar factions inside his government.

If he didn't like what was going on he had to have a direct confrontation with the neo-Nazis. It looks like this just might be happening. Dismantling the tent city in the Maidan -- right sectors power base -- is an essential first step. One thing Poroshenko encouraged was to send the right sector thugs off to the Donbas to fight the militias there. Maybe they will have insufficient forces inside Kiev to withstand the city's police. If they win it looks like Klitchko will be the big winner.

A ceasefire right now would be a major victory for the militias. This would require the government to give up it's offensive and de facto accept the Donbas rebels as the ruling authority. Maybe the western press will even stop reporting the wonderful victories the UA is achieving around Donetsk.

Posted by: ToivoS | Aug 7 2014 21:07 utc | 23

Pushkov: NATO to be affected more by suspension of cooperation than Russia

at a meeting with Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada (parliament) Speaker Aleksandr Turchinov, NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said the alliance was suspending cooperation with Russia. …

“NATO is very much interested in the future transit of the American troops, weapons and military hardware from Afghanistan through Russia,” Pushkov said.

He recalled that the international coalition troops are to leave Afghanistan after December 2014 and two years ago Russia provided its transshipment point in Ulyanovsk for this purpose.

“I think this may not work now that Mr. Rasmussen says that cooperation has been stopped,” Pushkov said. “We are not going to lose anything from that, but NATO will as they will have to redeploy a large amount of combat hardware, valuable equipment and troops via other countries. If they do this by land, I am sure the Taliban will be only too happy to lie in wait for them on the mountain passes and in the valleys,” he said.

Rasmussen is one of the most idiotic Russouphobes around.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 7 2014 21:14 utc | 24

Looks like not all soldiers who fled to Russia returned to Kiev.

150 ukrainische Militärs haben sich den Volksmilizen angeschlossen - Nachrichten - Gesellschaft - Stimme Russlands

Sorry, couldn't find an English version. It looks like 150 Kiev soldiers joint the federalist/seperatist in Eastern Ukraine.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 7 2014 21:22 utc | 25

@Fran #25:

According to the Voice of Sevastopol, the resistance reports that the Uke air force bombed Uke soldiers who are stuck in a cauldron at the Russian border, so that they don't go to Russia.

This should be taken to be unconfirmed at this point.

In general, things don't seem to be going so well for the "ATO". (And yet the Guardian wrote just yesterday that the junta is getting ready for a major offensive into Donetsk!) This may well be the reason Poroshenko wants a cease fire.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 7 2014 21:39 utc | 26

Parbiuy: the Butcher of Kiev

Posted by: brian | Aug 7 2014 22:24 utc | 27

The Russians probably have an eye on Parubiy. Perhaps it won't be long before they make a request to Interpol for his arrest.

Posted by: Copeland | Aug 7 2014 22:37 utc | 28

'thanks b. that is good news on Parubiy's resigning.. i wonder who replaces him?'
@4

someone just as bad

Posted by: brian | Aug 7 2014 22:38 utc | 29

given the massive gaza rallies, im waiting for simmilar rallies against NATO esp at NATO HQ in Brussels..until we see that dont expect NATO to change course

Posted by: brian | Aug 7 2014 22:39 utc | 30

Good point, Demian. U.S. still has 30,000 military personnel in Afghanistan, though most of the combat troops have already left. The Taliban is running successful operations throughout the country. The U.S. will likely need the quickest route out of the country because its armed forces will be making their exit under duress.

After trillions spent in Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. will have another Saigon embassy/helicopters pushed from the deck of the aircraft carrier into the ocean moment on its hand.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Aug 7 2014 22:59 utc | 31

A footnote in Parubiy's Wikipedia article:

Umland, Andreas; Anton Shekhovtsov (September–October 2013). "Ultraright Party Politics in Post-Soviet Ukraine and the Puzzle of the Electoral Marginalism of Ukrainian Ultranationalists in 1994–2009". Russian Politics and La 51 (5): 41. "It is noteworthy that of these various Ukrainian nationalist parties the SNPU was the least inclined to conceal its neofascist affiliations. Its official symbol was the somewhat modified Wolf’s Hook (wolfsangel), used as a symbol by the German SS division Das Reich and the Dutch SS division Landstorm Nederland during World War II and by a number of European neofascist organizations after 1945.33 As seen by the SNPU leadership, the Wolf’s Hook became the “idea of the nation.” Moreover, the official name of the party’s ideology, “social nationalism,” clearly referred back to “national socialism”—the official name of the ideology of the National-Socialist German Workers’ Party (NSDAP) and of the Hitlerite regime. The SNPU’s political platform distinguished itself by its openly revolutionary ultranationalism, its demands for the violent takeover of power in the country, and its willingness to blame Russia for all of Ukraine’s ills. Moreover, the SNPU was the first relatively large party to recruit Nazi skinheads and football hooligans. But in the political arena, its support in the 1990s remained insignificant."

Andriy Parubiy

Posted by: PhilK | Aug 8 2014 0:16 utc | 32

Here's something they shove down our throats in Merkelland.
It's from a comment on tv - equivalent to BushBlairCorp:

Putin will not give away
07.08.2014 Markus Sambale, WDR, Moskau

At least now everybody should know: Wladimir Putin will not give away.
More than ever the West and Russia are on a confrontational course.

It's not only about meat and fish, fruit and vegetables. The massive import-
stop for products from the West is Putin saying: We're in the middle of a
trade war, there's no way back, the spiral of sanctions will only accelerate.
And Putin accepts that the russian economy will float further into the abvss.

He can afford it, his scale of popularity is soaring – almost 90% of Russians
back him. Back him in showing Europeans and - most of all - Americans the
third finger.

Russians blame the West for shortage

And as long as billions keep flowing from Oil and Gas he is accepting massive
damages for the own economy. Two days ago Putin talked about being
careful with countermeasures. The heavy blows from today show: For him
it's all or nothing – without consideration of losses. The Rubel is weak,
money is moving out, contractors are nervous – and within all this they have
the illusion that the import-stop could help the ailing russian agriculture.

Pleasant shock therapy – pfff : The now missing billion-imports can not be
replaced overnight by products from other countries or by homemade goods.
If there's no fish from Norway, more poultry from Brasil wont do the job.

The sanctions will now hurt the own people – nevermind! A year ago it was
hard to imagine, that poor Russians would accept rising fruitprices. Or that
rich Russians would do without their favourite french cheese. In this completely
agitated mood it is plausible. Reason: The cause for all that is the West, that's
what state-propaganda proclaims since months. And most people in Russia
see it that way.

All Trust is lost

It's no longer about political influence or the dominance over Eastern Europe.
Putin has stirred up a culture battle: Russia against the West. All convergence,
all trust is lost.
More devastating than trade war and culture battle is the real war – the war
in Ukraine. To this point hundreds dead, thousands wounded, hundreds of
thounds fleeing. The country is on the brink of breaking apart. Also in this
Putin is determined to the last: A russians military intervention is conceivable.

The West and Russia are on a confrontational course - no side-steps in sight.

Posted by: slirs | Aug 8 2014 1:00 utc | 33

The Saker has an excellent piece on Russian sanctions.
Most interesting is the news that these include reviewing US and NATO use of Russian airspace.
Just as it is becoming clear that not even the rigged election in Afghanistan is going to produce the SOFA that Washington wants, and that US expulsion is imminent, Russia closes off half of the exits.

It may be time to send out for popcorn and settle back to watch, because the Iranians aren't going to offer a way out either and the routes through Pakistan run right through the Pashtun heartland.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 8 2014 2:02 utc | 34

I thought Putin was a crackerjack chess player? This is a terrible move. It hurts Russia mostly. It only hurts the Small People — of both Russia and the countries that export the banned products. The sanctions levied by The West heretofore are meant to put a pinch on Putin's rich Russian friends — not the Small People. Putin obviously doesn't care about the Small People.

Maybe Russia can now get its baby food from China.

More Scares Ahead After China's Rat Meat Scandal

And you thought Europeans had problems with their horse meat scandals. In China, consumers have to worry about getting served rat meat for dinner.

That’s the latest frightening food-safety scare from China, where the government is determined to show weary Chinese consumers the system can protect them from hazardous products. China’s Ministry of Public Security has rounded up 904 people for “meat-related crimes,” the official Xinhua News Agency reported on May 2. The offenses included selling as mutton meat that really came from rats, foxes, and minks.

You might think China’s state-controlled media would be covering up the embarrassing food scandals, but with so many Chinese taking to social media sites to express their outrage, for now it seems the government has decided the best strategy is to go on offense. That means publicizing some of the many scares that Chinese consumers have suffered since 2008, when the issue became front-page news after melamine-tainted infant formula killed at least six Chinese children and sickened 300,000 others.

Putin, in his best Marie Antoinette impression, says of the Russian citizens "let them eat rat!"

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Aug 8 2014 2:45 utc | 35

@Cold #35:

Putin's ahead of you. Baby food is excluded from the sanctions. (As is wine: if European wine were included in the sanctions, Putin would lose the top 10% of the Russian population.)

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8 2014 2:54 utc | 36

@35 Wrong again Cold One. Those 'small people' might get angry. Heck there could even be civil unrest!

Posted by: dh | Aug 8 2014 3:12 utc | 37

Posted by: bevin | Aug 7, 2014 10:02:36 PM | 34

Just finished reading the saker piece...you were right bevin.

Here is a link for those who have not read it.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=You-wanna-be-Uncle-Sam-s-f-by-Michael-Collins-European-Union_Russia_Sanctions_Ukraine-140807-647.html

Posted by: really | Aug 8 2014 3:23 utc | 38

Opinion: Dear Armchair Generals. What we are witnessing today is an onset of WW3. Who fights who?

The U.S. and the allies (EU, Ukraine) fight Russia, because of Syria, Snowden, to show who The Master is …

Russia and allied Donbass fight Russia’s traditional enemy, The Zmey (Serpent) Gorynych

Wikiedia

The WW3 is introduced as an 18th century duel, but will escalate.

Whose victory will it be, given nothing unprecedented? U.S.’. Because one can not imagine the U.S. being dented.

Posted by: Fete | Aug 8 2014 4:04 utc | 39

Israel and Ukraine: Ridding the Nation of the ‘Undesirables’

The slaughter of civilians, be they ethnic Russian or Palestinian, cannot be divorced from the fact that both the Ukrainian and the Israeli Governments have no intention of granting autonomous rights to these respective populations under their control and may ultimately even see their lives as disposable. The unelected Ukrainian Government did not accept the referendum held in the Donbass in which over 90% of residents voted for self-rule, while in Israel, Netanyahu recently said that he would never support a sovereign Palestinian state. Indeed, both the Ukrainian and Israeli government share highly racist views of these targeted populations. …

The highly racist manner in which both Ukraine and Israel view residents under their control who do not fit into the image of the nation they claim to represent, cannot but disturb those who pay attention. The former Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk termed Russians in East Ukraine "subhumans", therefore repeating the phrase "untermenschen" used by the Nazis towards Russians during World War II.

A German has to be a completely racist Russophobe, with the relevant influence going back to Nazi times, not to see the Novorossians as completely justified in their war of independence, and the Kiev junta as a throwback to dark Nazi times which the Germans themselves experienced.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8 2014 4:16 utc | 40

The US seems to be getting on the defensive in its infowar against Russia. To quote today's NY Times op-ed by a professional Russophobe:

Western support for Ukraine is substantial, but more could be done. Most immediately, the West should provide the Ukrainian military with as much intelligence as possible, both to help its fighters protect themselves and to help them avoid killing civilians. Nothing hurts Ukraine’s campaign for sovereignty and unification more than civilian casualties.

So McFaul admits that (1) the fascist junta is systematically killing Ukrainian civilians (although he only sees that as a PR problem, not a problem with the nature of the junta and its forces at all); (2) the status quo is that there is no unified Ukraine; that is, the Ukraine has ceased to exist as a nation.

The people of Novorossiya do not want to be "unified" with the Ukraine. The fighters for Novorossiya represent a value that Americans used to believe in (with Patrick Henry's "Give me liberty or give me death": "It is better to die free, than to live as a slave" (Russian language interview).

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8 2014 6:03 utc | 41

The US seems to be getting on the defensive in its infowar against Russia. To quote today's NY Times op-ed by a professional Russophobe:

Western support for Ukraine is substantial, but more could be done. Most immediately, the West should provide the Ukrainian military with as much intelligence as possible, both to help its fighters protect themselves and to help them avoid killing civilians. Nothing hurts Ukraine’s campaign for sovereignty and unification more than civilian casualties.

So McFaul admits that (1) the fascist junta is systematically killing Ukrainian civilians (although he only sees that as a PR problem, not a problem with the nature of the junta and its forces at all); (2) the status quo is that there is no unified Ukraine; that is, the Ukraine has ceased to exist as a nation.

The people of Novorossiya do not want to be "unified" with the Ukraine. The fighters for Novorossiya represent a value that Americans used to believe in (with Patrick Henry's "Give me liberty or give me death": "It is better to die free, than to live as a slave." (That's from a Russian language interview which is blocked by the blogging software; I'll give a link to the English language version when it becomes available.)

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8 2014 6:08 utc | 42

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8, 2014 12:16:31 AM | 40

You are an ideologue. I am pretty sure people in Western and Eastern Ukraine would prefer 1) no war 2)steady incomes, pensions and jobs 3) heating in winter 4) the government keeping out of personal preferences like language and anybody's personal choice on how to live. Neither the Western nor Eastern Ukrainian "governments" give a **** on what people want. They sold their souls and act as proxies.

The huge issue is the acceptance of all our governments to the "small wars" using extremist ideologies, ngos and private contractors, freeing governments from the responsibility for the atrocities these fighters commit. This type of war has traveled from Latin America to Afghanistan and the Middle East and finally has arrived in Europe as a repeat of the Yougoslav wars. And for the first time Russia has been embracing it.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 8 2014 6:58 utc | 43

@somebody #42:

And you are a Russophobe, like your Nazi forefathers. Unfortunately, you evidently have not learned anything from their mistakes and war crimes.

It is absurd to say that the fighters who are defending the people of Novorossia (you can't even bring yourself to use that word, so great is your hatred of Russia, and your lingering attachment to the project of the German Reich to create a "nation" called the Ukraine) have "sold their souls".

What "atrocities" have the anti-fascist fighters for Novorossian independence committed?

Fortunately, the visceral Russophobia you exhibit is not typical of most Germans, especially north Germans.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8 2014 7:15 utc | 44

Russia should intervene now when the hypocrite west intervene in Iraq!

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 8 2014 7:20 utc | 45

Malaysia wants the missing ATC tapes - The New Strait Times

Equally puzzling is the international investigation team’s apparent snail’s pace at requesting for the tapes from Ukrainian ATC.

Three weeks into the tragedy and the Ukrainians have yet to receive any formal request for the tapes.

Yesterday, when asked, Attorney-General Tan Sri Abdul Gani Patail said Malaysia would make a formal request for the ATC recordings.

However, he did not commit to a definite timeline.

On suggestions that MH17 was brought down by an air-to-air missile fired from an Sukhoi Su-25 Frogfoot and finished off with cannon fire from the fighter’s internally-mounted Gsh-301 30mm cannon, Humennyi said there’s a rational explanation.

“The bulletholes these theorists said came from the fighter could have come from any 30mm weapon used by the rebels.

“They could have come from their armoured combat vehicles after the MH17 hit the ground.”

Posted by: somebody | Aug 8 2014 7:25 utc | 46

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8, 2014 3:15:45 AM | 43

It is a strange concept to "defend" a place when you are causing its destruction. It is also a strange concept to "defend" people when you are shooting standing next to them, so the return fire is guaranteed to kill them.

But "defense" has always been the Orwellian term for waging wars.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 8 2014 7:30 utc | 47

somebody

"It is a strange concept to "defend" a place when you are causing its destruction. It is also a strange concept to "defend" people when you are shooting standing next to them, so the return fire is guaranteed to kill them."

Are the rebels destryoing its own cities? Are the rebels killing their own people?
You have to give sources for this, this sounds like netanyahu stuff.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 8 2014 7:33 utc | 48

@ Copeland @ 28

I think it would be a brilliant if The Russians issue an Interpol warrant for Pairuby on suspicion of ordering the shoot-down of MH17. They could capture the little-boy molesting Nazi pig and once they had in a cell somewhere in Russia, he could become quite an asset..scum like him are always cowards and they can always be flipped - you know, unless he has a stroke out of fear at the moment of capture, or something like that..

Posted by: Marc | Aug 8 2014 7:52 utc | 49

I think its getting more and more apparent that it was ukraine junta itself that shot down the plane. Why?
Because west are 100% silent on the accusations against Russia and it seems its not so important for west anymore to find out what happend.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 8 2014 8:11 utc | 50

@ Demian @ 40

Are you the one who identified in a brief chit chat with me , as a "social democrat" If so maybe ive already run this past you.. ? Ive observed most liberals (I don't mean you personally per se) cant actually define "fascism"...With them, its more of some kind of relativist, historic-experiential, "I know it when I see it and its never me" kind of thing. When all else fails, its "Mohhamed Stalinhitlerputin" ....I suggest that Israel and the US appear to be Fascist states because they ARE Fascist states..
\
/ " "Fascism is an open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, the most chauvinistic, the most imperialistic elements of the financial capital... Fascism is neither the government beyond classes nor the government of the petty bourgeois or the lumpen-proletariat over the financial capital. Fascism is the government of the financial capital itself. It is an organized massacre of the working class and the revolutionary slice of peasantry and intelligentsia. Fascism in its foreign policy is the most brutal kind of chauvinism, which cultivates zoological hatred against other peoples."

-Georgi Dimitrov-

I've brought this at one or two other anti-war'ish sites and some people have fulminated quite violently and defensively when exposed to the idea that, Fascism is actually the Regime of finance capital - the ascendancy and rule, of the (ultra reactionary) finance sector, within western capitalism/"globalism". But it's a definition that seems to be working and if the knee - high shiny black leather riding boot fits, then wear it...

Posted by: Marc | Aug 8 2014 8:12 utc | 51

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 8, 2014 4:11:43 AM | 49

i agree.

Pierre Crom @PierreCrom

It seems that the fights around the #MH17 crash site ended when the Recovery mission left. All very quiet in Grabovo #ukraine #donbass

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 8, 2014 3:33:43 AM | 47

When you enter a fight, you are responsible for the consequences of your tactics and strategy. If you chose military escalation, the consequence of your choice will be civilian death. When you chose military escalation in an area where the people you claim to "defend" live, the outcome will be the death of those people.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 8 2014 8:52 utc | 52

@Marc #50:

I did identify myself as a "social democrat" (and a "Left Hegelian") at one point, but I don't recall if that was in an exchange with you.

I'm afraid I don't really have any kind of concept of fascism that could be called sophisticated. With me it is more like, as you said, I think I know it when I see it. For example, Leni Riefenstahl's films Triumph des Willens and Olympia are definitely fascist, and I think they are both masterpieces. So I guess that as a person with a social democratic inclination, I can't really make much sense of fascism other than at an aesthetic level. On a political level, it is certainly very primitive, and I have never taken the trouble to get into the political philosophy of Carl Schmitt, which is probably the best entry point to fascism as a political philosophy. (Since somebody obviously has more of a personal connection with fascism, and Nazism in particular, than I do, maybe he can give a better answer.)

As for the US, I think it is completely wrong to see it as a fascist state. The American political philosopher Sheldon Wolin has developed the concept of inverted totalitarianism to explicate the form of totalitarianism that the US elites have developed to oppress their people.

And as for Israel, I tend to defer to Gilad Atzmon on such matters, since I have no connection to Jewish culture.

On an intuitive level, I will say that neither the US nor Israel are fascist, since fascism is able to come up with an attractive aesthetics, while American and Israeli nationalism are always utterly repulsive from an aesthetic point of view.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8 2014 9:14 utc | 53

@Marc #50:

According to Thierry Meyssan, both the United States and Israel must be understood in terms of Zionism, of the Christian dispensationalist (heretical) and Judaic forms. respectively. Both of these predate fascism.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8 2014 9:33 utc | 54

@ Cold: oh yeah, it'll terribly hurt "small people" when they can't buy polish apples or american dirty-bomb so-called "meat", or no iPhones. Yes, that will certainly push Russians to the barricades.

And then we all wake up.

Posted by: T2010 | Aug 8 2014 9:42 utc | 55

@ Demian, every sort of collectivism that sells "the greater whole" at the cost of individual humans is fascism. As simple as that.

Posted by: T2010 | Aug 8 2014 9:44 utc | 56

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8, 2014 5:14:01 AM | 52

Seems like everybody has a personal definition. Historically there is a difference between Nazism and Mussolini and Franco type fascism.

So if you take Mussolini's self definition

...Fascism [is] the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society... After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage....

...Fascism denies, in democracy, the absur[d] conventional untruth of political equality dressed out in the garb of collective irresponsibility, and the myth of "happiness" and indefinite progress....

...Given that the nineteenth century was the century of Socialism, of Liberalism, and of Democracy, it does not necessarily follow that the twentieth century must also be a century of Socialism, Liberalism and Democracy: political doctrines pass, but humanity remains, and it may rather be expected that this will be a century of authority...a century of Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State....

The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived of in their relation to the State. The conception of the Liberal State is not that of a directing force, guiding the play and development, both material and spiritual, of a collective body, but merely a force limited to the function of recording results: on the other hand, the Fascist State is itself conscious and has itself a will and a personality -- thus it may be called the "ethic" State....

...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....

...For Fascism, the growth of empire, that is to say the expansion of the nation, is an essential manifestation of vitality, and its opposite a sign of decadence. Peoples which are rising, or rising again after a period of decadence, are always imperialist; and renunciation is a sign of decay and of death. Fascism is the doctrine best adapted to represent the tendencies and the aspirations of a people, like the people of Italy, who are rising again after many centuries of abasement and foreign servitude. But empire demands discipline, the coordination of all forces and a deeply felt sense of duty and sacrifice: this fact explains many aspects of the practical working of the regime, the character of many forces in the State, and the necessarily severe measures which must be taken against those who would oppose this spontaneous and inevitable movement of Italy in the twentieth century, and would oppose it by recalling the outworn ideology of the nineteenth century - repudiated wheresoever there has been the courage to undertake great experiments of social and political transformation; for never before has the nation stood more in need of authority, of direction and order. If every age has its own characteristic doctrine, there are a thousand signs which point to Fascism as the characteristic doctrine of our time. For if a doctrine must be a living thing, this is proved by the fact that Fascism has created a living faith; and that this faith is very powerful in the minds of men is demonstrated by those who have suffered and died for it.

Posted by: T2010 | Aug 8, 2014 5:44:34 AM | 55

every sort of collectivism that sells "the greater whole" at the cost of individual humans is fascism. As simple as that.

basically sums it up.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 8 2014 10:00 utc | 57

51

Yes? Thats called a war. You get hit, they get hit. Do the junta want political solution? Obviously no.
The junta could give the east more freedom etcetera and the war would be over.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 8 2014 10:18 utc | 58

@T2010 #55:

every sort of collectivism that sells "the greater whole" at the cost of individual humans is fascism.

That would make Judaism, Islam, and Roman Catholicism fascist by definition.

Such a position strikes me as absurdly ahistorical.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8 2014 10:24 utc | 59

Russia has banned anonymous public Wi-Fi...big brother is watching is alive and well

Posted by: Another Jeff | Aug 8 2014 10:28 utc | 60

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8, 2014 6:24:26 AM | 59

I don't know any religion that is not strictly about the individual, even the vatican does not claim to be the highest judge on the acts of humans

You can get a good introduction by Michail Romm - Ordinary Fascism with loads of historical material - you find it on youtube, too.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 8 2014 11:00 utc | 61

its an ill wind that blows no good.//..malaysian airlines to be nationalised
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2014/08/malaysia-airlines-be-nationalised-20148853054329421.html

Posted by: brian | Aug 8 2014 11:42 utc | 62

Posted by: somebody | Aug 8, 2014 3:25:27 AM | 46

thats the online version...its been tampered with

The truth about #MH17 is finally starting to trickle into the English-speaking world. Full story here:
Exclusive on MH17: Missile, cannon brought down jet?
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1208/4945/original.jpg

The article by Haris Hussain and Tasnim Lokman is on page 6 in Wednesday's printed edition of New Straits Times. Unfortunately the printed newspaper is only sold in Malaysia. Luckily RIA Novosti provides a summary of the printed story:

MH17 Brought Down by Air-to-Air Missile, Finished Off by 30-mm Cannon, Experts Allege
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140806/191783761/MH17-Brought-Down-by-Air-to-Air-Missile-Finished-Off-by-30-mm.html

MOSCOW, August 6 (RIA Novosti) – The Malaysian Boeing plane that crashed in eastern Ukraine in mid-July, could have been brought down by an air-to-air missile and a cannon of the Su-25 fighter that had been “shadowing it,” The New Straits Times reported on Wednesday citing experts.

Experts believe that MH17 flight was shot down by an air-to-air missile fired from the fighter that later finished it off with a burst of 30mm cannon fire, the newspaper has reported.

According to the experts, if this hypothesis is true, it would explain the bullet holes in some sections of MH17’s fuselage.

“Some showed blast patterns consistent with shrapnel from a proximity-fused weapon while some showed the more precise grouping consistent with that of cannon fire. We’re analyzing this,” said one of the sources, adding that a detailed analysis of the pieces of the jetliner is needed to corroborate this emerging theory.

Under this new version, the heat-seeker would have aimed at the hottest part of the aircraft's engines. These claims rule out the previous version that the aircraft had been downed by the BUK missile system (NATO SA-11 'Gadfly').

“A BUK-M1, with its 70 kg head, would have been enough bring down the airliner without the need to go in for a guns kill,” the sources said.

The Sukhoi Su-25 close-air support aircraft (NATO Frogfoot) has a maximum service ceiling of about 25,000 feet (7,620 meters). It has an internally mounted 30mm cannon for anti-armor work, the report said.

“The Su-25 would have been operating at the extreme corner of its performance envelope but it’s entirely possible,” the sources added.

Posted by: brian | Aug 8 2014 11:47 utc | 63

Good to see:

Euromaidan Activists Protesting Kiev’s Operation in Eastern Ukraine | World | RIA Novosti

KIEV, August 8 (RIA Novosti) – The activists still occupying Kiev’s Independence Square are protesting the new Kiev authorities and the government’s military operation in eastern Ukraine, a Euromaidan representative said Friday.

“Why are factories and plants being closed? Why is the war underway? Nothing has changed under the new government; there is still no work and corruption is flourishing,” the representative said.

Wonder if Merkel will also warn Poroshenko against using force on the Maidan. Maybe we in the West should support this - were are the demonstrations against the war and ethnic cleansing in the Eastern Ukraine!

Posted by: Fran | Aug 8 2014 11:49 utc | 64

every sort of collectivism that sells "the greater whole" at the cost of individual humans is fascism.

.

So, every form of an organized state, "basically"? Like maybe the super-libertarian areas of Libya as opposed to the collectivist evil gaddhafi-regime :-)

Posted by: peter radiator | Aug 8 2014 12:05 utc | 65

Ukraine points gun at own - and the EU's - head. Considers imposing Russian gas transit ban.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 8 2014 12:58 utc | 66

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8, 2014 12:16:31 AM | 40

You are an ideologue. I am pretty sure people in Western and Eastern Ukraine would prefer 1) no war 2)steady incomes, pensions and jobs 3) heating in winter 4) the government keeping out of personal preferences like language and anybody's personal choice on how to live. Neither the Western nor Eastern Ukrainian "governments" give a **** on what people want. They sold their souls and act as proxies.

The huge issue is the acceptance of all our governments to the "small wars" using extremist ideologies, ngos and private contractors, freeing governments from the responsibility for the atrocities these fighters commit. This type of war has traveled from Latin America to Afghanistan and the Middle East and finally has arrived in Europe as a repeat of the Yougoslav wars. And for the first time Russia has been embracing it.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 8, 2014 2:58:36 AM | 43

This is an excellent post. I agree with it entirely and wholeheartedly. A brief glimpse of sane thinking. Now, back to the insanity.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Aug 8 2014 13:34 utc | 67

All the World's a Spectacle

@Noirette, et al, from previous thread:

Evgeny Fedorov's presentations are very good; certainly in communicating the level of threat Russia feels.

Also recommended are the various audio and video presentations of Joaquin Flores to be found around the web and on his website - Center for Syncretic Studies. He's quite young and a bit of an odd bird -- a former radical leftist from LA, now Dugin acolyte, or so he claims -- one never knows just who anyone really is these days on the innertubes. But he is quite humble and he has the big picture of a multi-polar world -- something which can unite people over many political persuasions -- foremost in his mind.

Both give a good sense of what might be expected over the long game, and why Russia is taking things slow. Essential background.

But the most concise and prescient background on the current world situation are two brief articles Christof Lehmann, proprientor of the nsnbc website, wrote: first, "Russia – E.U. Meeting in Brussels: Risk of Middle East and European War increased," way back on Dec 22, 2012, and the second, "The Atlantic Axis and the Making of a War in Ukraine", written last week.

In the former article he begins:

"On 21. December 2012 the political leaders of 27 E.U. countries and Russia´s President Vladimir Putin met in Brussels. On the top of the agenda were problems which are directly related to the ongoing war in Syria.

Russian control over major parts of the energy which the European Union will require over the course of the next 100 years, Russian-Iranian dominance over the most competitive gas resources and pipelines in the Middle East, US-American and British initiatives to change the energy-dynamics militarily and a European dilemma between Trans-Atlantic allies who are pushing Europe toward a war with Russia to save the Petro Dollar and greater integration of Russian and European energy sectors and market economies."

He begins the later article thusly:

"The war in Ukraine became predictable when the great Muslim Brotherhood Project in Syria failed during the summer of 2012. It became unavoidable in December 2012, when the European Union and Russia failed to agree on the EU’s 3rd Energy Package. The geopolitical dynamics which are driving the war in Ukraine were known in the early 1980s."

Remember that the real game is the breaking of the PetroDollar, not the back of poor "Chocula" Petrodollarshenko, and so every day that a major conflagration can be forestalled is a day closer to the real goal; and also that what we are witnessing in the Ukraine is cutting-edge 4th generation warfare -- sort of a quietly lethal pas de deux. One should not be so naive as to believe that this conflict has taken any of the world powers by surprise -- They all have had close to two years notice, at minimum.

In a sense, we are still in the "chess opening" stage, where the majority of the moves have been charted out by both sides. But the middle game is very close at hand. And, yes, it is theoretically possible for the three sides to come to a backroom agreement before the deadly endgame closes in upon us. All the players are aware of the solemnity of the moment; certainly, there is far more action going on behind the curtains than we can possibly know.

All Western actions -- from Nuland's doughnuts and raving expletives to Ashton's "Gosh!" now-forgotten investigation, from the barbarities of Maidan medieval siege warfare replete with Trebuchet to the various levels of massacre -- at Maiden, in Odessa, Mariupol, behind the lines, including Israel's atrocities, to the false-flag downing of MH17, and so on down the line -- beyond the piteous human cost -- are simply meant to incite and humiliate Russia into the pre-layed trap of overwhelming dollar dominated retaliation. As I said above, we are witnessing a kind of 4th-generational street theatre where "all the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players." Same goes with the almost inexplicable: Bidens's "fractious" son, and Rothschild's drilling in the Golan. We are watching a continually escalating rollout of "Shock and Awe" twisted into a kind of Captagon addled "Ground Hog's Day" macabre mobius loop.

Debord and Baudrillard and Stockhaussen must be dancing on their graves at the sheer spectacle of it all: Shock and Awe as daily fare. The Empire of Chaos as Russian Roulette with punk piercings, khokhol hairstylings, and wolfsangel tatoos. Its enough to give one a chub.

Expected reality is turned on its head: To "sanction" is to give permission, but "sanctions" are a penalty.

Karl Rove's famous quote has been updated: "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own hyperreality. And while you're studying that hyperreality -— judiciously, as you will -— we'll act again, creating other new hyperrealities..." The wanton destruction of Slaviansk as Bizarro version of Sim-City. Bloodless Sims on MH17. The only predictable is the unpredictable.

Through the gnostic machinations of empire, the "banality of evil" has been spiritually transmogrified into a transcendent celebration, an entertainment, a celebration: "The Ravishment of Evil" -- and served up to western tastes as a form of exotic entertainment. In Egypt, during the so-called "Arab Spring" modern day Lawrence of Arabias galloped through the set on camels, In Iraq, "I Dream of Jeannie" plays the role of sex jihadi, and now in the Ukraine, we consume daily re-runs of post-punk "Combat." One wonders if Phillip Zelikow will one day receive credit for the script, which is surely worthy of an "Oscar."

Baudrillard's "The Spirit of Terrorism" in particular merits a close re-reading. He muses, "War as continuation of the absence of politics by other means." The spectator, once an actor, is shocked into passivity.

Performing the "détournement" implicit in Debord's text where the powers that be are the real terrorism, we find that "Another aspect of the terrorists' victory is that all other forms of violence and the destabilization of order work in its favour. Internet terrorism, biological terrorism, the terrorism... of rumor -- are all ascribed to (the other). He might even claim natural catastrophes as his own. All forms of disorganization and perverse circulation operate to his advantage. The very structure of generalized world trade works in favour of impossible exchange."

Poor, pathetic Viktor "Yorick"ovich was in way over his head, thinking he could play the two opposing forces of human civilization against themselves and come out unscathed and ahead; indeed, he is lucky to come out of this with his own head. Putin has nothing but contempt for the fool. He reminds one of the Zen koan where the Abott comes upon two monks fighting over a cat. He seizes the cat, and in some versions only threatens to cut it in half until the monk who really own's the cat relents and shouts "Stop!", in others he actually does that which Thomas Merton refers to as "the unspeakable." In our own hyper-real version, Yanukovich does cut the cat in half, only to recoil in horror when he realizes that it is HIS cat that now lies dead before him. The moral is instructive, for in reality Putin offered to divide the cat fairly, only to be refused. In hyperreality, the bedraggled Ukranian cat, shambolically and symbolically, has been elevated to human existence itself. To quote Baudrillard, ‘by seizing all the cards for itself, [the west] forced the Other to change the rules.’ The west asserted moral, cultural and economic dependence. Violence was then left as the only option for the Other to pursue.

I certainly do not claim to be able to predict the future here -- but I am sure that we have not been in such dangerous territory since the Cuban Missile Crisis -- although with time less of a crisis factor. And I have NEVER in my lifetime heard a President of the US trash talk a major power, much less two of them at once, to their faces, as Obama did this past week in the Rothschild rag to Russia and China: Russia, who couldn't even land a position as one of Santa's elves because it doesn't know how to "make anything," and China, the inscrutable Oriental who is not "sentimental, and ... not interested in abstractions." Well, he never claimed to be Malraux at work upon "Man's Fate!"

Clearly, the US is doing everything possible to provoke and spark a fire in the heart of Europe, which the world -- should it survive -- will never forget.

All the world's a stage... Shakespeare could not know how predictive his poem could be, when he ended it thusly:

"Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything."

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 8 2014 13:40 utc | 68

@2 Jon Lester

Agriculture is exactly the right sector for Putin's response, as today's western leaders seem to have forgotten the importance of their farmers, as both providers and a substantial voting bloc.

Got that right.

Another great post, b. I keep sending them to my congressman to no avail.

What a disastrous presidency this has turned out to be. We're all going to need mea culpa support groups by the time this guy gets out of office.

Posted by: MRW | Aug 8 2014 13:51 utc | 69

"@T2010 #55:

every sort of collectivism that sells "the greater whole" at the cost of individual humans is fascism.
That would make Judaism, Islam, and Roman Catholicism fascist by definition.

Such a position strikes me as absurdly ahistorical."

Posted by: Demian | Aug 8, 2014 6:24:26 AM | 59

Wrong choice of words though - Catholicism is pure fascism and they invented it too. In every fascist country over the last 100 years you had the catholic church rejoice and join and push the fascists full force. All the WW2 fascist countries were catholics - Croatia, "Ukraine", baltic mini-republics etc.

"Judaism" is not fascist, but Zionism surely is. Though the latter is purely british and not jewish, they're a masonic fifth column hiding among Jews.

Islam is not directly fascist, but all the Takfiris are. Salafists/Wahhabis are fascist. The so-called "ISIS" is fascist (or according to their ideology that would rather be a strange sort of socialism-collectivism).

As said, forget the book definitions (which were just "defined" by someone...) and look at the results in the real world. Or as Jesus said, "you will know the good and the bad tree by their fruits".

Posted by: T2010 | Aug 8 2014 13:57 utc | 70

@67 "And for the first time Russia has been embracing it."

I'm not sure 'embracing' is the right word. The Russians seem reluctant to make things worse. But they have been throwing the Western subversion strategy back where it came from. Next comes R2P I guess. Also known as humanitarian intervention.

Posted by: dh | Aug 8 2014 14:01 utc | 71

Maybe now Western politicians might become aware how stupid they are, this is what they are supporting. I know they will be absolutely surprised, because who could have expected this.

Ukraine May Lose $7Bln From Possible Sanctions Against Russia - Yatsenyuk | World | RIA Novosti

According to Yatsenyuk, Kiev government prepared a list of 172 individuals and 65 legal entities from Russia and other states who are subject to 26 various types of sanctions. Ukraine could stop gas transit from Russia, the prime minister said.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 8 2014 14:03 utc | 72

"So, every form of an organized state, "basically"? Like maybe the super-libertarian areas of Libya as opposed to the collectivist evil gaddhafi-regime :-)"

Posted by: peter radiator | Aug 8, 2014 8:05:55 AM | 65

No, you're interpreting things into it. Look at the US constitution for example (back then while it still had some validity), it puts individual on top. Also your very german Grundgesetz starts with "Die würde des Menschen ist unantastbar". Of course, german "authorities" of today are using it instead of toilet paper just like their counterparts elsewhere, but none of the "free" countries ever belittled the individual human being, in the sane times at least.

In collectivist regimes (those can onjly be regimes, in the real sense of the word) it is the opposite. The constitution will usually begin with something like "The Party is the highest authority" blabla or there is no constitution at all.

Posted by: T2010 | Aug 8 2014 14:04 utc | 73

Oh and Gadhafi's free Lybia was definitely anything but a "regime", that was the only actual direct democracy in the world. For every new law etc. you had the whole city come to the meeting and vote live. They even built those halls in every city specifically for that purpose.

Also, always funny to see a european call other countries "regimes", while living in a fascist one himself. Crazy irony at its best...

Posted by: T2010 | Aug 8 2014 14:07 utc | 74

More war crimes by the junta, photos from today.
https://twitter.com/ResistanceER/status/497447807591415808/photo/1

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 8 2014 14:08 utc | 75

Wouldn't this be also blackmailing the EU?

Ukraine Open to Halting Gas Flows in Russia Sanctions - Bloomberg

Ukraine said it’s open to halting Russian gas supplies to Europe through the country as it plans sanctions on President Vladimir Putin’s government as part of its battle against pro-Russian separatists.

The list of possible sanctions includes a “complete or partial ban on the transit of all resources,” Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk told reporters in Kiev today in response to a question about halting gas flows. Other measures may include a ban on Russian planes overflying Ukraine, he said, while defense-industry cooperation will be reduced. A draft law also proposes restrictions on ships entering Ukrainian waters.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 8 2014 14:08 utc | 76

@43 somebody

And for the first time Russia has been embracing it.

They're not embracing it, they're reacting to it.

B is quite correct when he writes:

Under pressure Russia always unites and the national character is one that will rather do without any luxury at all before giving in to foreign pressure. Russia has enough land, people and resources to produce everything it needs.

and this

Some "western experts" believe that sanctions will over time push the Russian middle class against Putin. Anyone with a slight insight into Russia's social history will call this bullshit.

Russia west to east is the distance from Seattle to Tehran, it's huge with every micro-climate and vast natural resources. And their senior leadership was educated under the old USSR university system. (I don't know what it's like since 1990.) The one thing Americans, sadly, think they are is that they are is smarter and better educated than the Russians. Any American ESL teacher working with Russian kids can tell you that's simply not the case.

Posted by: MRW | Aug 8 2014 14:09 utc | 77

"Maybe now Western politicians might become aware how stupid they are"

Stop giving them excuses - none of them is stupid, it's rather that the empire knows all the dirt they ever did and probably has a nice stash of videos etc. showing all those shiny figures raping children or being whipped by some S/M-whore while licking shit or such. To put it short, they are blackmailed.

Posted by: T2010 | Aug 8 2014 14:10 utc | 78

@77

Let us not forget that the politicians are purchased, can't leave out the mass amounts of money in politics.

Posted by: really | Aug 8 2014 14:21 utc | 79

@52 somebody

A basic goddam fact of life no one seems to get through their heads:

When you enter a fight, you are responsible for the consequences of your tactics and strategy. If you chose military escalation, the consequence of your choice will be civilian death. When you chose military escalation in an area where the people you claim to "defend" live, the outcome will be the death of those people.

Posted by: MRW | Aug 8 2014 14:22 utc | 80

@75

I think it is a ploy to look like blackmail so nato can increase military support and or put boots on the ground. Fogh Rasmussen was just there yesterday.

Posted by: really | Aug 8 2014 14:55 utc | 81

And in Afghanistan, American sanctioned "neo-democracy" takes another hit at the American backed candidate (Abdullah) apparently continues to refuses to concede based on the preliminary re-count results ( bbc: Preliminary results announced by Afghan election officials gave Mr Ghani 56.44% of the votes, with Mr Abdullah gaining 43.45%. But they accuse each other of electoral fraud.)
BBC: BBC: Afghans sign unity government deal with US backing.
John Kerry:

Mr Kerry later spoke at a news conference with the two presidential rivals. Mr Kerry said "one of these men is going to be president, but both are going to be critical to the future of Afghanistan no matter what".
Mr Abdullah called the agreement "another step forward in the interests of strengthening national unity in the country, strengthening rule of law in the country and bringing hope to the people for the future of Afghanistan."

So, as has been clear for months, "our" reliance on "our" candidate certainly appears to have us by the short and curlies, can you say SOFA? So, apparently election results can be largely ignored and the cry of "national unity" is heard throughout the land (shades of Iraqi constitution creation -- can't work within the rules? change the rules) Yes, we had to destroy the appearance of democracy in order to save democracy ... so what else does America stand for at this point?

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Aug 8 2014 15:49 utc | 82

"Let us not forget that the politicians are purchased, can't leave out the mass amounts of money in politics.

Posted by: really | Aug 8, 2014 10:21:49 AM | 78"

I'd say this kind of "selling your soul" is way beyond purely material reasons for the higher ranks. For minions, sure, money is always the best blackmail/grease you can use. But noone would openly go for deaths of millions and alienate his own whole nation only for money, it's too high of a risk for a simple criminal.

Posted by: T2010 | Aug 8 2014 16:00 utc | 83

Let us not forget that the politicians are purchased, can't leave out the mass amounts of money in politics.

Posted by: really | Aug 8, 2014 10:21:49 AM | 78

I don't think money is enough of the reason for trying to wreck half the world and destroying your own nation in the process. It's too high of a risk for a simple criminal.

Minions, sure. Money was always the best blackmail/grease.

Posted by: T2012 | Aug 8 2014 16:02 utc | 84

Sorry, thought it got blocked...

Posted by: T2012 | Aug 8 2014 16:02 utc | 85

@13 Marc quote: "most likely Pairuby ... was behind the shoot-down of MH17.."

marc, your thought on this stuck with me in the past 24 hours and i think it is a very logical conclusion to make, especially in like of the straight times article from wednesday suggesting higher odds of air to air missile taking down mh17 which would point back to pairuby's leadership...

Posted by: james | Aug 8 2014 16:12 utc | 86

Claims wrt the Yazidis are making me skeptical -- not questioning that they need humanitarian aid, but that the "plight" is being grossly misrepresented -- in some accounts, 40 children were among the 500 killed in an ISIS attack, then same/other 40 children died of dehydratioun ... while over at Juan Cole, we have Yzaidis saying their food and water will run out in 3 days ... 150,000 "missing" Serbian men remain unaccounted for as far as I can tell.
Thoughts on how to "rescue" hungry, dehydrated and exhausted 40,000 men, women and children trapped on a mountain top with air-strikes boggles. Obviously establishing a destination is required, as well as a route of safe passage to that destination. Air strikes can make lots of satisfyingly loud noise and impressive "optics" but probably can't prevent a massacre by small arms (if, in fact, that's Isis' goal, as opposed to driving the Yazidis out of Iraq)
Democracy Now says that US intervention is likely to be seen as support for Maliki (which will just make him and us more hated, since he's a sectarian despot and we had been demanding he "step down" before we would consider intervening ... oh well ... more short and curlies.
Interestingly, Maliki mobilized the Iraqi Airforce back on Monday to support the Kurds -- so apparently American air strikes are to so something Iraqi air strikes could not achieve
"" Iraq's government sent its air force on Monday to back Kurdish forces struggling to blunt a jihadist advance, an extraordinary move that reflects alarm over the insurgents' brash new offensive against Kurds in both Iraq and Syria."" (WSJ 08/04/2014

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Aug 8 2014 16:20 utc | 87

@83

So what are they doing it for, is it just for sporting fun? Or are these 'people' confirmation that there are demons and hades really does exists...

Posted by: really | Aug 8 2014 16:37 utc | 88

Great read from Zero Hedge:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-08/german-handelsblatt-releases-stunning-anti-west-op-ed-asks-if-west-rabble-rousers-ar

Handelsblatt, Germany's leading economic newspaper, came out with a stunning op-ed, in German, English and Russian, titled simply that "The West on the wrong path.

Even the idea that economic pressure and political isolation would bring Russia to its knees was not really thought all the way through. Even if we could succeed: what good would Russia be on its knees? How can you want to live together in the European house with a humiliated people whose elected leadership is treated like a pariah and whose citizens you might have to support in the coming winter.

Hard to believe how the chief editor put the boots to the U.S., and to the EU for blindly following in lockstep.
Finally a bit of sanity. The winds may be shifting.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 8 2014 17:55 utc | 89

It's interesting listening to Oz PM, Tony Abbott, blustering about Putin's sanctions on Oz "harming Russia more than Australia." He knows, like everyone else in Oz, that Oz has been systematically de-industrialisd by " a Middle-man-itis scourge since circa 1970. Oz used to build ships, aircraft, trucks, agri-machinery and heavy engineering. In 2016, Toyota, Ford & GM will cease manufacture in Oz.

More than a decade ago the Neo-lib middle men (and supermarket chains) took aim at farmers in Oz, legalising parallel imports of most of the stuff produced by Australian farmers and cutting returns for local producers sufficiently to make many farms unprofitable - and reducing the value of farm land, much of which is heavily mortgaged.

About 3 years ago, neo-lib ideologues "Rationalised" dairy farming resulting in many dairy farmers leaving the industry or going broke. As a result, milk is cheaper than branded mineral water and the wholesale price of milk has halved. The price of dairy-related manufactured products (cheese, yoghurt etc) have since risen by circa 25% - which is a lot considering the price for milk for big manufacturers has almost halved.

The "spokesmen" in the media have yet to decide whether Russia buys $400M or $700M of Oz farm products, but only Blind Freddie would dismiss the fallout as "worse for Russia than Oz." Abbott's predictable response has been to threaten to increase Oz's sanctions on Russia ... which sorta spoils Abbott's pugnacious "worse for Russia" bluster.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 8 2014 18:20 utc | 90

@89

http://www.handelsblatt.com/images/protesters-hold-petrol-bomb-during-clashes-with-pro-government-forces-at-independence-square-in-kiev/10307832/4-format20.jpg

...and this pic courtesy of handelsblatt.com sums up the situation in ukraine...

Posted by: really | Aug 8 2014 18:43 utc | 91

@86 james

Pairuby is small potatoes. He’s the equivalent of a redneck peckerwood who stumbled (or was pushed) into a position of power. There is no way he had either the imagination or, more importantly, the sheer audacity to even contemplate such a move, let alone act on it. The more pertinent question is - who is pulling his strings? Who is the puppet master? The answer to that, in my humble opinion, is that Zionist scumbag oligarch Kolomoisky.

A few points to consider:

-‘Kolomoisky is often described as a “third power”, a Ukrainian term meaning “unofficially in charge’.

-According to numerous reports Svoboda (and Right Sector) has been funded by Kolomoisky since at least 2012. Moreover he has publicly supported Svoboda since 2010. Consider the incongruity of that - a committed Zionist supporting an anti-semitic organization.

-Kolomoisky is the governor of Dnipropetrovsk. It is his personal fiefdom where he rules with impunity.
Dnipropetrovsk is also where the regional air traffic control centre is located. It is where Kolomoisky’s aviation
business is located, giving him complete access to all areas of operation.
(According to Federal Air Transport Agency (Rosaviatsiya) head Alexander Neradko: "When the plane disappeared from the radar screen it was the responsibility of an air traffic controller of the Ukrainian Dnipropetrovsk air traffic control center". So if the plane was intentionally diverted it came from there.)

-According to leaked tapes, Kolomoisky was behind the Odessa massacres, the event which catalyzed the revolt in eastern Ukraine. Prior to that there was talk of federalism.

-.He has already publicly defied Poroshenko during the cease-fire negotiated in June between the EU, Russia and the Ukraine because it did not serve his interests.

Oligarch Kolomoysky going to "finish off" militiamen in east Ukraine despite ceasefire
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_21/Oligarch-Kolomoisky-not-going-to-obey-Poroshenkos-plan-and-will-finish-off-militiamen-in-any-case-8563/

- Kolomoisky is connected to the highest levels of Zionist organizations worldwide, meaning he’s a major player as far as the neo-cons are concerned. (Nyland visited with him a couple of months ago)

-He also just happens to be the beneficial owner of Burisma Holdings, Ukraine's largest private gas producer (VP Biden's son appointed to its board of directors), which has large holdings in the Donbass and surrounding area. So the stakes for him are huge. (Burisma has recently started fracking operations in Slavyansk, the center of a massive shale gas deposit of 3.6 trillion m3.)
-Pavel Gubarev, Acting Head of the Mobilization Department for Ministry of Defense of the Donestk People's Republic, today 4th August 2014, stated: “We will not allow making the land of Donbass a fracking field for Western companies. We will not let them turn Donbass into a plundered desert”.

-In doing this, Strelkov thwarted the secret negotiations being conducted between Surkov’s people and the people of Akhmetov and Kolomoiskiy (through Kurginyan’s people). The gist of these negotiations was an attempt by near-Kremlin circles to coordinate with the Ukrainian oligarchs the question of a “large Transnistria,” to be fashioned out of the Lugansk and the Donetsk Republics,
As soon as Strelkov’s retreat from Slavyansk scuttled the secret negotiations, …Ukrainian oligarchs, who were contact with Moscow, immediately became the targets of a mass media campaign… the campaign against Kolomoiskiy in the Ukrainian mass media took on wide-scale proportions
(Colonel Cassad) The Vineyard of the Saker
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/07/what-makes-strelkov-feel-melancholy.html

I know this is not concrete proof. But one must admit Kolomoisky is a major, if not the predominant, player in the situation in the Ukraine. And the waters around him get much murkier, possibly right back to the Maidan coup itself. Given his past history and his megalomaniacal aspirations, he would have no hesitation in orchestrating the downing of MH17. (which, coincidentally, just happened to provide cover for the Gaza invasion)

Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 8 2014 20:04 utc | 92

"So what are they doing it for, is it just for sporting fun? Or are these 'people' confirmation that there are demons and hades really does exists...

Posted by: really | Aug 8, 2014 12:37:53 PM | 88"

As said, there are probably stashes of videos of them doing nasty things with little kids or whores dressed as na*is, whatever such. Or proofs of fraud nd robbery etc. with which they are blackmailing them. Or they threaten to kill off all their families. Use your imagination...

Posted by: T2010 | Aug 9 2014 10:57 utc | 93

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 8, 2014 2:20:52 PM | 90

The "sanctions" are a joke. No one cuts imports from Russia, what is cut are export and finance. Russia cuts imports.

Go figure.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 9 2014 13:15 utc | 94

"...U.S. ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power on Friday slammed Russian proposals to set up humanitarian corridors to east Ukraine. A "unilateral intervention by Russia in Ukrainian territory, including one under the guise of providing humanitarian aid, would be completely unacceptable and deeply alarming and would be providing humanitarian aid, would be completely unacceptable and deeply alarming and would be viewed as an invasion of Ukraine," she said.

She drew a parallel with the 2008 crisis in South Ossetia, when Russia justified sending troops into the Georgian territory in response to civilian suffering. Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov hit back Saturday that Power’s comments demonstrated the extent of "anti-Russian hysteria" in Washington".Our proposal has clearly humanitarian objectives but our initiative is tossed aside..."
http://m.naharnet.com/stories/en/142481-ukraine-says-another-13-of-its-troops-die-in-conflict-torn-east

Samantha Power should shut her gob. So itis ok for the US and NATO to provide aid to kiev but its a no go if Russia opens humanitarian corridors and assistance. I guess Samantha only thinks the US can display acts of compassion...

Posted by: really | Aug 9 2014 14:23 utc | 95

'A Thursday article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia’s flagship English-language newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 in east Ukraine last month. Given the tightly controlled character of the Malaysian media, it appears that the accusation that Kiev shot down MH17 has the imprimatur of the Malaysian state.
The US and European media have buried this remarkable report, which refutes the wave of allegations planted by the CIA in international media claiming that Russian president Vladimir Putin was responsible for the destruction of MH17, without presenting any evidence to back up this charge.'
etc
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/09/mala-a09.html
i cant help snarkly noting that WSWS says malaysias media is tightly controlled while making no such claim for the western media which ignores the report!

Posted by: brian | Aug 10 2014 7:03 utc | 96

78;Menendez(D,NJ)for an example.A corrupt pos in thrall to the enemy.
Yeah,Consortium has an 8/8 report about the Malaysian airline story,by Parry.

Posted by: dahoit | Aug 10 2014 16:45 utc | 97

94;Please,the USA exports what the Russians do,weapons,and the Russians also export energy,which we don't.And the USA,which should cut imports,and impose tariffs on foreign goods,doesn't,to the abject misery of its people.And also,we export very little of value anymore,other than those weapons,as our many of our products have turned to crap(autos)that world doesn't trust anymore,as our leadership are all mammon seeking disintellectual cruds.

Posted by: dahoit | Aug 10 2014 16:52 utc | 98

77;Yes,those reports of ISIS brutality sure help the serial lying narrative.People with sense should take anything these criminal idiots spew as radioactive.

Posted by: dahoit | Aug 10 2014 16:56 utc | 99

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=cvn0gmUL&src=cat&dbid=289563&dbname=Headlines&detailindex=5

Well Obama agreed that russia could help with humanitarian efforts in ukraine. I wonder what changed his mind after all the bluster from samantha power and her ilk about russian humanitarian assistance being a cover for invasion rhetoric.

Posted by: really | Aug 11 2014 16:56 utc | 100