Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 29, 2014

Ukraine Lost A Battle - West Escalates With More Russia Sanctions

Throughout August the Ukrainian president and cabinet, likely following U.S. "advisers", pushed their army into a big attack on the insurgency held south east areas of the country. But the attack of bad equipped, half trained units ran into problems. Some of them reached their attack targets only to find themselves cut off from any resupply. Without ammunition, gas and food they were locked into place and easy targets for the insurgents artillery.

The attack was stretched too far. The "culmination point in the attack" Clausewitz wrote about was reached and crossed. The negative effects of the attack on its own troops became bigger then the positive effects and the government in Kiev, not recognizing the real situation, still pressed on. It now lost the initiative. The parts of the Ukrainian army not surrounded and caught up surrounded in "cauldrons" retreated to be reorganized.

Some of the "volunteer" territorial battalions are simply going home. There is even a revolt against the defense ministry.

By Aug. 27, the battalion had left the war zone and made its way to the city of Znamyanka in Kirovohrad Oblast. Romanyuk said they were in discussion with the Defense Ministry whether to continue home to their base in Ivano-Frankivsk region, or be sent back to the Anti-Terrorist Operation.

In what is becoming a repeated refrain, the apparent failure of the government to provide its soldiers with even the most basic supplies is undermining both the conduct of the war and the morale of those fighting it.

“They were dumped,” said Romanyuk. “And absolutely all the territorial defense battalions are in this position. So they are in revolt against the Ministry of Defense. No one wants to endure this idiotic command anymore, and this inadequate attitude to soldiers, to the needs of the army and the National Guard.”

The situation is not looking good for the coup government in Kiev. Some of the neo-nazi national guard battalions have even threatened to come to Kiev to "clean the house."

The loss of the battle is also the reason why Ukraine now really, really fast wants to join NATO. That is not going to happen. NATO has a simple rule that countries with internationally disputed areas can not join. Should Ukraine give up on Crimea its move would make sense. But as it can not yet do so the joining request is just helpless yapping. As a little consolidation price the IMF squandered another $1.4 billion by giving it to bancrupt Kiev as a part of a larger loan. Ukraine will probably use that to pay for the T-72 tanks it recently bought from Hungary. Officially the IMF is not allowed to give money to countries at war. That may be the reason why yesterday official talk of an "invasion" by Russia was later toned down to "incursion".

The military battle defeat was the reason why Russia was accused of an invasion even when the OECD observers says (in German) that they have "no objective information" to support such a claim. Such propaganda rushes as yesterday always follow when the shit hits the fan for the "western" side. They are also occasions to introduce new sanction which from the U.S. point of view, have the nice feature of solely hurting both Europe and Russia. The U.S. poodle in No. 10 now wants to kick Russia out of the SWIFT inter-banking systems:

The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication, known as SWIFT, is one of Russia’s main connections to the international financial system. Prime Minister David Cameron’s government plans to put the topic on the agenda for a meeting of EU leaders in Brussels tomorrow, according to the official, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private.

“Blocking Russia from the SWIFT system would be a very serious escalation in sanctions against Russia and would most certainly result in equally tough retaliatory actions by Russia,” said Chris Weafer, a senior partner at Moscow-based consulting firm Macro Advisory. “An exclusion from SWIFT would not block major trade deals but would cause problems in cross-border banking and that would disrupt trade flows.”

"Trade flows" in this case are gas supplies from Russia needed in Europe throughout the winter. If the gas bill can not be paid because Russia gets kicked out of SWIFT the spice will not flow. Only the U.K., which does not need Russian gas supplies, could come up with such a lunatic idea.

On the other side it would probably be good for the world in the longer term should Russia be kicked out of SWIFT. The BRICS countries would of course immediately introduce an alternative under their control which would then lead to more preferential trade between them. Such an alternative would make SWIFT no longer indispensable and useless as a tool for "western" sanctions.

Also today the Iranian foreign minister Zarif visited Moscow for talks with Russia. The atmosphere was said to be quite positive. But someone in Washington took this visit as an insult and immediately slapped more sanctions on Iran:

The United States on Friday imposed sanctions on more than 25 people and companies it accused of violating sanctions against Iran, including shipping firms, airlines, and six Iranian banks.

Why, in the mid of so far positive talks with Iran about its nuclear program, does the U.S. feel this need to escalate again? Iran and Russia see their national aspirations as just and can therefore not be moved by sanctions. Is that really so hard to understand?

Such sanctions and childish petty acts, like Poland's overflight blockage of a Russian Defense Minister flight, will only create more strife in the world and a stronger urge for many states to distance themselves from the "west" with its seemingly more and more crazy leaders.

Posted by b on August 29, 2014 at 17:01 UTC | Permalink

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Posted by: ee | Aug 29 2014 17:11 utc | 1

Under its present constitution, Nato may theoretically be excluded from engagement in Ukraine, but it would be astonishing if the empire fails to find a way around that. Stephen Harper, with his F18's already stationed in Lithuania, is itching to start the bombing, since nothing much less than a World war will save his arse in next year's Canadian election.

Nato's goal, pretty clearly, is a proxy war with Russia on Ukrainian territory, the objective of which being the humiliation of Putin, the disintegration of the Russian Federation through foreign subversion, a new round of oligarchic looting, and expansion of NATO to China's border.

Posted by: CanSpeccy | Aug 29 2014 17:46 utc | 2

Surely the sane see that blocking Russia from SWIFT will swiftly end USD as a trading currency, just as the earlier sanctions killed the Petrodollar, when Russia and China immediately signed off on their massive decade-long oil/gas trade negotiation, the largest such agreement in world history.

Perhaps the downing of MH17, which happened while Putin was present at the Sixth BRICS Summit in Brazil, allowed it to go unnoticed in the West that the Development Bank is now fully funded and its settlement arm will be open for business before the end of the year.

I cannot recall a year like 2014, when so many monumental dollar-hegemony-killing agreements have been signed by the world outside the Western Dog Kennel. This has acted as a horrible undertow to the TTP and the TTIF, forcing participants to struggle with hedging against what very much looks like the marginalization of a failing world power. Little wonder that some multinationals are migrating out of there. Or, is it just me?

It's funny how someone as stupid as Nuland via Ukraine can set into action a series of events that topples a world power.

(As a currency trader, I've learned so much from all of you. Thanks.)

Posted by: Pluto | Aug 29 2014 17:53 utc | 3

For some it's "business as usual" or perhaps better than usual as sanctions quite possibly leave incoming "capital" in an advantageous position.
Cherry picking:

"As President Barack Obama warns of stepped-up economic punishments against Russia for its military incursions inside Ukraine, U.S. sanctions have so far avoided one prominent financial institution: the $10 billion Russian Direct Investment Fund, which has partnered with brand-name American companies and whose advisers include top U.S. and European private equity executives."

"Despite its ties to Russian state businesses and officials, the Russian Direct Investment Fund has managed to operate unaffected by the sanctions imposed by the U.S. and EU in response to Russian President Vladimir Putin's military actions in Ukraine."

"(T)he fund's international advisory board includes private equity executives Stephen Schwarzman of The Blackstone Group LP, Leon Black of Apollo Global Management LLC and David Bonderman of TPG Capital LP."

The Blackstone Group, Apollo Global Management and TPG Capital are among the world's largest private equity firms.

"Investors in the fund include BlackRock Inc. and General Electric Co., which partnered with the fund to build small power plants for industrial users across Russia. JPMorgan Chase & Co.'s One Equity Partners joined an Illinois tire company to buy a manufacturer of agricultural and industrial tires. European investors took stakes in telecommunications firms, information technology consultants and health care companies. In total, more than $6 billion from blue-chip foreign companies have flowed in."

"Some Westerners have already cut ties with the fund .... Others, including all three American private equity executives, have stayed put."

"The Russian fund in May partnered with two unidentified international investors and Gazprombank, the sanctioned finance arm of Gazprom, the Russian-controlled energy conglomerate, to buy a liquefied gas terminal."

"A Republican-backed bill in the Senate would extend sanctions to executives, companies and investment funds, including the $10 billion Russian fund, and penalize Americans who work with them, according to congressional staffers."

Posted by: skoalbrother | Aug 29 2014 17:55 utc | 4

Cameron's idea, of course, would be an act of war. Given the quality of leadership in US/NATO for the foreseeable future, we are in for a generation or two of stagnation/depression and varying levels of conflict from low grade to open warfare... And that's if we're lucky. The new game of Risk teams: US/NATO/Israel/Gulf States v. BRICS/Iran... give or take...

In Ukraine, the current coup regime is proving not up to the task and the US may be considering a replacement. "Snap" election to chuck out uncooperative PMs may be a start. Conscription will churn things up. Anti-conscription demonstrators in the Maidan will, I guess, be declared terrorists by DoS spokeskiddies...

Posted by: chuckvw | Aug 29 2014 18:00 utc | 5

@#2: I don't buy into that. I think the whole mess is aimed at weakening western Europe by reducing its energy security and thereby putting it under complete US control. America's domination was threatened by North and South Stream. Something had to be done about the latter along with cutting off the pipelines through the Ukraine and Poland. The reduction in Norwegian oil production makes matter worse. Hadn't it been for the lackeys in the governments, not a single move towards sanctions would have been successful.

Posted by: g_h | Aug 29 2014 18:01 utc | 6

I came across this comment in Die Zeit, about those Mother in Russia searching for their sons - or are they?

Russland: Putin provoziert Ukraine mit Nazi-Vergleich | ZEIT ONLINE

Ella Poljakowa ist die Vorsitzende von
Saint Petersburg Regional Human Rights Organization "Soldiers' Mothers of St. Petersburg"

President: Ella Mikhailovna Polyakova (

Subventioniert wird diese Organisation wohl u.a. von NED

"The National Endowment for Democracy (NED) is a private, nonprofit foundation dedicated to the growth and strengthening of democratic institutions around the world. Each year, NED makes more than 1,000 grants to support the projects of non-governmental groups abroad who are working for democratic goals in more than 90 countries. [...] This well-rounded approach responds to the diverse aspects of democracy and has proved both practical and effective throughout NED’s history. Funded largely by the U.S. Congress" (

"St. Petersburg Regional Public Human Rights Organization "Soldiers' Mothers of St. Petersburg"
To conduct its annual Human Rights School [...]"

Posted by: Fran | Aug 29 2014 18:14 utc | 7

Poland is making a big mistake for blocking their airpslace for the Russians...

Posted by: Shoes | Aug 29 2014 18:21 utc | 8

@shoes - well in the meantime they changed their minds:

Poland Permits Flyover for Russian Defense Minister’s Plane – First Pilot | News | RIA Novosti

BRATISLAVA, August 29 (RIA Novosti) – Poland has permitted flyover for the plane of Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, which had to return to Bratislava Friday after Poland refused to let it into its airspace, the aircraft’s first pilot told RIA Novosti Friday.

But I think you are right it was a mistake that should not have happend.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 29 2014 18:27 utc | 9

Hah those poles, what drives them? Hate?

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 29 2014 18:44 utc | 10

Yup, the leaders and their presstitutes are getting more and more crazier (if that's posssible).
Joining Nato by giving up Krimea - that's an interesting thought, isn't it? But no, Washington could just bring RAPA, or an Article 5 case, I almost can see Insane McCain driveling.
On the "so far positive talks with Iran... where do you derive that from? It's just a stalemate in my eyes. Help me see clearly now in this worrisome times. Peace!

Posted by: slirs | Aug 29 2014 19:05 utc | 11

@Shoes #8:

Poland is making a big mistake

Poland itself is a big mistake. At the peak of European civilization, the Enlightenment, Poland did not exist. It was partitioned between Russia, Prussia, and Austrio-Hungary.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 29 2014 19:09 utc | 12

When Cameron started taking selfies at Mandela's funeral it undermined any remaining notion that he was some kind of leader, he was rather revealed as a mediocre middle-management suckup. Western political leadership is chock full of these types. Policy is being developed at another level than elected representatives and middle-management is there to sell the policy.

I'm not sure NATO wants a full shooting proxy war - they don't care much about Ukraine or its people and would be content with new bases and new weapons programs. The intent, it seems, is to isolate Russia from Europe and hope that the effects from sanctions could produce some sort of regime change or fracture the country into territories It seems that the Kiev regime has done just about everything possible to provoke a Russian invasion. Western politicians and media, by their open hysteria and constant insistence that Russia has "invaded" and shot down a passenger plane, are invoking a sort of nostalgia for the Afghanistan invasion of 1978 or the KAL007 shoot down, when the evil empire stood revealed and the brave middle managers could rush to the barricades. Unfortunately for them, Russia hasn't played that game and because they are mediocre the West's political leadership cannot summon the imagination for what to do next.

Posted by: jayc | Aug 29 2014 19:12 utc | 13

Clausewitz. b is trolling you, JFC! lol

But what would Col. Qiao Liang and Col. Wang Xiangsui think about all this?

Posted by: ess emm | Aug 29 2014 19:28 utc | 14

Most people in the UK hate Cameron and his crony government. Not everyone in the UK follows blindly and supports this god awful government. Our country was ruined by Tony Blair and his Labour lot and Cameron follows America blindly. I wish we had a leader like Putin. David Cameron look at the facts and grow a pair!

Posted by: Ally in UK | Aug 29 2014 19:37 utc | 15

Interesting thinking from Peter Lee:

Surprised that performance of Susan Rice hasnt come in 4 more scrutiny when discussing Obama's foreign policy travails. Her fingerprints 1/4

— chinahand (@chinahand) August 29, 2014

all over Syria/Libya, she hired McFaul, & US Ukraine policy seems a recapituation of her abrasive anti-diplomacy at UN 2/4

— chinahand (@chinahand) August 29, 2014

3/4 where she abused PRC a/w/a Rus. O shielded her from Benghazi ruckus by shifting apptnmt from SoS to natsec. Her profile really low 3/4

— chinahand (@chinahand) August 29, 2014

Now I think she's saying "If we bomb IS in Syria, that means Assad's won...and I've lost!" Attn shud be paid 2 O taking heat 4 Rice IMO 4/4

— chinahand (@chinahand) August 29, 2014

Posted by: ess emm | Aug 29 2014 19:42 utc | 16


HRC seems to be missing from Lee's recitation. Clinton, Rice, Power, McFaul, Nuland, et al came as a package.

Posted by: chuckvw | Aug 29 2014 19:47 utc | 17


Apparently you are wrong or when did these invasions on Poland occured by Russia?
So again what drives the poles? Hate? Yes it seems like it.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 29 2014 19:48 utc | 18

@JFC #14:

The historical role of Ukraine and Poland is to interfere with Russian citizens going to Germany by buses, trains, and personal automobiles.lurkmore

Posted by: Demian | Aug 29 2014 19:50 utc | 19

@18 JFC

"Well I'd guess "various massacres, several large scale invasions and subsequent long-term military occupations"

The various partitionins of Poland were joint operations of the Germans/Prussians and the Russians. The Nazis famously invaded Poland, kicking off WWII proper. The USSR then occupied Poland until its collapse.

However, the Prussian empire is gone. The Austro-Hungarian empire is gone. The Nazis are gone. The USSR is gone. The hatred of Russians remains. One wonders where the hatred of the Germans went.

Posted by: shargash | Aug 29 2014 19:50 utc | 20

thanks b. quote from the 'revolt' article : "So they are in revolt against the Ministry of Defense. No one wants to endure this idiotic command anymore..." if would be nice if they could trace it back to the usa/cia advice and be done with any allusions on the merits of aligning with the 'west - usaeuro -as well, but i doubt they will.. they are too busy gobbling up the propaganda being served thru the kiev post and other such ukraine propaganda outlets..

regarding SWIFT, i would hope that an alternative system is already in the works, but what i find interesting is aside from the usa/cia keeping there limbs in check by having the kiev nationals go make war on eastern ukraine, they are very into financial sanctions while the us$ sits precariously as the dominant world currency at present.. i suppose if you push others enough, including europe, they will eventually look for viable alternatives.

@3 pluto..thanks for sharing. interesting viewpoint. as a currency trader do you really see this happening? i suspect it will take quite a while for the wheels to come off the us$ currency position. BRICS is a small bump along the way..

Posted by: james | Aug 29 2014 19:52 utc | 21


Stop whine and respond are you polish perhaps? You dream of the historic pro-nazi Poland perhaps?

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 29 2014 19:56 utc | 22

@20 Good point. Wonder how much sway HRC still has over those who remain at White House

Posted by: ess emm | Aug 29 2014 19:59 utc | 23

As the Novorossiya militia marches on Mariupol there was this tasty tidbit from the NYT story, "Ukraine Rebels Advance on Key Port, in Hint at Putin’s Strategy":

“We plan to take Mariupol,” said a commander of the rebels in Novoazovsk, who identified himself by his nickname, Svet. “Now we are fighting for the southeast of Ukraine for Novorossiya.”

Journalists who visited Mariupol earlier Friday saw Ukrainian workers digging trenches with backhoes and building defensive positions in anticipation of an assault. Civilian residents, household belongings piled into their cars, were leaving.

While Ukrainian militiamen manned Novoazovsk checkpoints, evidence of a Russian presence was abundant, including unmarked Russian military vehicles with no license plates. A soldier on a truck greeted journalists and shouted in English: “Back in the U.S.S.R.!”

Showing a reduced ability to accurately prognosticate of late, I will nonetheless make the safe prediction that Kiev is doomed. If France doesn't cancel Russia's Mistral order no other country is going to step up for more self-punishment. It will be nice to see Yatsenyuk jet off to Dubai or Tel Aviv or Zurich or wherever with the Right Sector skinheads hard on his heels.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Aug 29 2014 20:03 utc | 24

@ ess emm #28

Does it really matter? They are all cut from the same cloth.

One might as well ask what sway Dick Cheney has--most likely quite a bit since Nuland was his foreign policy adviser.

The more things change . . . . . .

Posted by: sleepy | Aug 29 2014 20:10 utc | 25


But you are saying that pro-nazi Poland was a good thing?

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 29 2014 20:11 utc | 26

"Hah those poles, what drives them? Hate?"

No. Just impotence, weekness and huge arrogance.
Not a good combination.

Posted by: Scan | Aug 29 2014 20:27 utc | 27

It will be nice to see Yatsenyuk jet off to Dubai or Tel Aviv or Zurich or wherever with the Right Sector skinheads hard on his heels.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Aug 29, 2014 4:03:57 PM | 30


Posted by: radiator | Aug 29 2014 20:30 utc | 28


I dont think swift ban will become true, seems like only uk want it what I have read. Just a rumour imo.


Thats a good definition of the poles,
Poor poles
Polish FM: Poland's relationship with US is like a "blowjob"

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 29 2014 20:32 utc | 29

The occupant of Nr. 10 is whining about the blow-back from the Iraq-Libya-Syria adventures. Will make the big-brother state even tighter on security and surveillance. All rhetoric put aside, it's not yet possible to implement the thought police in the UK, or is it?.

Threat level increased a notch and more legislation on the way. These measures were duplicated by PM Mark Rutte of the Netherlands. Scare mongering and war mongering, but still no preliminary report on MH17. It's awfully quiet in The Hague.

In today's press conference Cameron got the first question from a Sky News reporter which stymied the British leader. Wondering what Syria would look like today when the UK, US and France had bombed the Assad regime to open a corridor into Damascus for the AQ extremists exactly one year ago.

Can't blame Obama for a sur place with his remark "we don't have a ISIL strategy yet." The Washington DC neocons are itching to deepen the war in the Levant and create [more] chaos in support of Israel.

It appears the UK breaking up with upcoming referendum in Scotland and Cameron threatening to skip out of the EU. Looks like some members of his party are taking the lead and switching sides to the UKIP.

What is the deal in Kiev, Yats and 20 colleagues splitting away from party of Timoshenko. See headline: Avakov, Yatsenyuk and Turchynov left the "Fatherland" party.

Posted by: Oui | Aug 29 2014 20:33 utc | 30

moa says:

"But the attack of bad equipped, half trained units ran into problems. Some of them reached their attack targets only to find themselves cut off from any resupply. Without ammunition, gas and food they were locked into place and easy targets for the insurgents artillery."

yeah, it's curious how uncle sam has left its latest proxy army in the lurch, ain't it? no food, no gas, no ammo, shitty chain of command...i mean, with all that embedded expertise and the wealth of an empire these are problems that no good imperial army should have to deal with.

as opposed to those ISIS chaps, who just seem to have logistics down to a t. you know, just conquerin' away huge swathes of land with state-of-the-art weaponry, and seemingly nuthin to upset the resupply chain, the mobile hospitals, the islamic cafeterias...

obama says, "we don't have a strategy yet."

...a million laughs

Posted by: john | Aug 29 2014 20:48 utc | 31

JFC @ 34. Regardless of whether a soldier really shouted "Back in the U.S.S.R.!" I appreciated the writerly flourish. I am of the opinion that it doesn't matter -- we are at that point finally -- if it is active duty Russian military or Novorossiya militia that is routing the junta. I believe it is the latter but we are at that point that the U.S./EU/NATO has to put up or shut up. On sanctions, on increased military support of the junta -- the whole nine yards. The West is going to have to go after Gazprom next, and that is going to cause them a lot of pain. I think Europe is tired of the Kiev circus, and Obama doesn't have the politically standing to go hot and heavy on behave of the fascists.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Aug 29 2014 20:51 utc | 32

@39 Money doesn't grow on trees, and the oligarchs won't put their own money which means they can only pony up what congress will appropriate. Let's be honest between crooks and Syria operations, the U.S. doesn't have cash for its Ukraine ambitions after funding the Maidan. Obama expected to win on fear of U.S. military might.

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Aug 29 2014 20:57 utc | 33

Observations on recent military developments at the military blog Sic Semper Tyrannis:

The military situation reminds me of the battle of Gazala waged south of Tobruk for several weeks in May and June 1942. Rommel feinted to the north then led his Afrika Korps south to swing around the British defenses. As is common in military operations, things did not go exactly as planned and the battle was an often confused and close run thing. What finally assured Rommel’s victory was his belief that his forces were better trained, better organized and better led at all levels. This stood him well in the confused and fluid battle. The army of Novorossiya displays the same qualities.

Today Obama said, “There is no doubt that this is not a homegrown, indigenous uprising in eastern Ukraine. The separatists are backed, trained, armed, financed by Russia.” Russia is actively supporting Novorossiya, but that does not mean it is not a homegrown, indigenous uprising. Does the support given to Washington by the French mean that our War of Independence was not a homegrown, indigenous uprising? Kiev has repeatedly vowed to wipe out the Moskals. What choice did the Moskals have but to take up arms and resist.

This is how Americans who are not whores of the 0.01% think.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 29 2014 20:58 utc | 34


Just published via website Dutch government, 19 pages of Q&A between parliament and cabinet of ministers. I'm still reading the document. The Dutch state there is no non-disclosure agreement between Ukraine, Belgium, The Netherlands and Australia.

Lijst van vragen - Verslag Buitengewone Raad Buitenlandse Zaken van 15
augustus 2014 en brieven “Repatriëringsmissie MH17” en “Stand van
Zaken vliegramp MH17”

The document lists a SBU report -

Posted by: Oui | Aug 29 2014 21:02 utc | 35

@ 41:

no, you ain't timothy geithner.

Posted by: john | Aug 29 2014 21:05 utc | 36

@Oui #38:

It appears the UK breaking up with upcoming referendum in Scotland and Cameron threatening to skip out of the EU.

Yes, a breakup of the UK would be very timely, wouldn't it? It would carry profound symbolic significance, given that the American Empire is just a continuation of the British Empire.

Political instability in Airstrip One, the Empire's main foothold in Europe.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 29 2014 21:17 utc | 37


Speaking of sanctions against Iran, have you seen the latest:

Earlier this year, U.S. government lawyers declared their interest in the lawsuit, warning that information related to UANI could jeopardize law enforcement activities.

An intervention by the government in a private civil lawsuit is rare, and its use of a privilege under state secrets statutes to clamp down on the case would be a highly unusual move. Other cases where the government has invoked the privilege include lawsuits filed against the National Security Agency in the wake of leaks to journalists by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.

Just look up thw who's who of UANI:
Ana Palacio: She got the job at the World BanK when Wolfowitz was President ( she has to resign when Wolfy was kicked out)
Joe Lieberman : no need to introduce him - Israel Firster
Olli Heinonen ( wanted so much to have the top job at IAEA) Meir Dagan :(

Posted by: Yul | Aug 29 2014 21:27 utc | 38

@37 Anonymous. maybe you're correct. i wouldn't rule it out, as financial war is what much of this is about as i see it..

@40 mike.. one could say going after gazprom is the same recycled story of going after who put the screws on yukos... actually i think the yukos - gazprom spin is a better way to understand some of the dynamics at work here of who is behind some of the bs going on at present..

Posted by: james | Aug 29 2014 21:28 utc | 39

@anonimous 37

Well, the Poland rulers must be good in something, isn't it?

Posted by: Scan | Aug 29 2014 21:29 utc | 40

Obama said, “There is no doubt that this is not a homegrown, indigenous uprising in eastern Ukraine.

I,d like to ask him if it was a homegrown, indigenous coup?

Posted by: Plantman | Aug 29 2014 21:29 utc | 41

@Oui #43:

That document from the Uke secret police is dated 8 August. It appears to be the latest Uke story about what happened: that the rebels shot down MH17, wanting to shoot down a Russian airliner instead, to justify a Russian invasion.

That the Ukes came out with this new version of events was ignored by the Western media, except for this story in the Daily Mail.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 29 2014 21:37 utc | 42

Russia will not be drawn into large-scale conflicts but partners need to understand that it is better not to mess around with Russia, President Vladimir Putin said on Friday.
“I want to say immediately that Russia is far from getting involved into any large-scale conflicts. We do not want and do not intend to do this,” Putin said at a youth forum in central Russia.

The warning was made.

Posted by: Scan | Aug 29 2014 21:40 utc | 43

Posted by: Yul | Aug 29, 2014 5:27:54 PM | 46

I have done some research, planning on doing some more ...

Coalition of the Willing Against Iran: US Justice Dept, Ungar, UANI and Mossad | BooMan | Aug. 2, 2014
Neocons Form New Anti-Iran Group With Suspect Bi-Partisan Claim | Tikun Olam | Sept. 12, 2008

Most likely the lobby group was used to pressure corporations to abide by the sanctions on Iran or be shamed, meaning the DOJ will find you. Likely UANI got/shared intelligence with the CIA and Mossad.

Posted by: Oui | Aug 29 2014 21:56 utc | 44

Soooo....with things turning south for the Uki's coup leaders, does this mean Joe Biden's son doesn't get paid? It seems a little unfair, don't 'ya think?

Posted by: S Brennan | Aug 29 2014 22:01 utc | 45

@jayc 13

"Russia hasn't played that game and because they are mediocre the West's political leadership cannot summon the imagination for what to do next."

This is a great line. Western elites have no imagination, because of a generation of brutally purging all dissent from the neoliberalism/financialist imperalism paradigm. If you don't believe in the washington consensus, you don't exist.

They simply can't think of anything better, and they won't allow themselves to try.

Posted by: Crest | Aug 29 2014 22:26 utc | 47

Why am I not surprised by this:

Putin adviser: Russia will decline to send troops into Donbass, but will support the resistance (in Russian)

If Donbass will be able to defend its sovereignty, Russia will initiate before its Customs Union partners Novorossia's entry into the Common Economic Space.

This was at a conference in Yalta, said Sergei Glazyev, Vladimir Putin's adviser.

According Glazev, the economy of LPR and DPR could "most effectively integrate" into the structure of the Customs Union - we are talking about the military-industrial complex, agriculture, chemistry and metallurgy.

So much for US strategists thinking that Russia wouldn't be able to get resupplied with helicopter engines. The US has so badly botched this latest exercise of bringing freedom to the world that EU countries should seriously reconsider whether the US is an ally worth having. But the dunces that their leaders are, I don't think that's going to happen yet.

(h/t to Bic over at the Saker)

Posted by: Demian | Aug 29 2014 22:27 utc | 48


Stephen Harper, with his F18's already stationed in Lithuania, is itching to start the bombing, since nothing much less than a World war will save his arse in next year's Canadian election.

Harper won't give up power so easily. I'm thinking his IS-ra-eli friends will soon be giving Canadians a reason to cling to 'strong leadership.'

Posted by: Where-Wolf | Aug 29 2014 23:02 utc | 49

Some may consider this anti Semitic but it needs to be said.

Jews constitute a grossly disproportionate percent of the top 1%. THey account for at least a third of the Forbes 400. Hence AIPAC's power.

Wealthy. Zionist Jews have gained enormously from the Fed's ZIRP policy which has greatly inflated asset prices while screwing savers. I doubt that the Jewish led Fed was unaware of this when it began its orgy of money printing.

There is enormous overlap between the Israel and banking lobbies. Politicies aimed at making the rich richer greatly increase the Israel lobby 's clout. And all that evil that these dual loyalists promote from the Middle East to Ukraine.

Posted by: Andoheb | Aug 29 2014 23:13 utc | 50

Re Andoheb #58:

Hm, why does that make me think of this:

The Double Identity of an "Anti-Semitic" Commenter

Like many other news websites, Common Dreams has been plagued by inflammatory anti-Semitic comments following its stories. But on Common Dreams these posts have been so frequent and intense they have driven away donors from a nonprofit dependent on reader generosity.

A Common Dreams investigation has discovered that more than a thousand of these damaging comments over the past two years were written with a deceptive purpose by a Jewish Harvard graduate in his thirties who was irritated by the website's discussion of issues involving Israel.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 29 2014 23:20 utc | 51

The US strategy, and the US's international interests, have nothing to do with the common American citizen. It is generally about making the world a safe place for corporations to thrive. The US did not invade and then stay in Afghanistan because at one time Osama bin Laden lived in a cave in Tora Bora. They invaded Afghanistan because the US wants access to Central Asian oil. It has had, since at least the 80s but probably back to at least the Carter years when the US was funding the Muhajadeen against the Soviets. Why would western news outlets, after almost fifteen years of US occupation of Afghanistan, not ruminate about TAPI? While things were ripening in Afghanistan in the 90s the US, through the CIA, began funding Muslim radicals in Chechnya. Why? That huge pool of oil and natural gas in Central Asia. Ukraine is merely the latest is a series of US actions to enrich Big Oil. In the eyes of our permanent government Ukraine itself is at best a cork in Russian gas lines. I say without exaggeration that there was a reason why JFK was murdered in Dallas, America's oil capitol. My country's last fifty years has been a history of what happens to a very powerful country that has been taken over by fascism.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Aug 29 2014 23:35 utc | 52

@59 demian.. bingo! which begs the question.....

Posted by: james | Aug 29 2014 23:36 utc | 53

@52 @54

"UANI specializes in "outing" companies which allegedly violate UN sanctions against Iran."

Probably more like keeping others from cutting in on their turf.

Do you remember Mossad connected commodities trader Marc Rich, "pardoned by Bill Clinton in the last hours of his administration... Attorney General Eric Holder, who was then a deputy attorney general, was instrumental in securing Rich’s pardon."

Marc Rich made a fortune breaking international embargoes - like Iran, Libya, Iraq, Cuba and South Africa.
He sold Iranian oil to Israel, no less and became one of Israel's most generous donors.

"He used to say 'I deliver a service. People want to sell oil to me and other people wanted to buy oil from me. I am a businessman, not a politician.'"

I'm guessing he had politicians and UANI-like friends that helped create a very favorable business climate.

March Rich:

Posted by: skoalbrother | Aug 29 2014 23:39 utc | 54

It seems to me that wishing any western political figure to get a grip on their senses is wishful thinking. If you listen to what they say and watch what they do, there is some group thinking behind the scenes, whose message is fairly singular, and whose main representative is Obama. The tactics are all the same from the color revolutions, to crowd control, to their treatment of the poor, everywhere. If the global situation turns even nastier, which it will because it's human nature, they will probably flee to South America together, I believe something like that would be in the works.

There are alot of chess pieces scattererd all over the Go board, and for Obama to "have no plan" is to recognize that the bombing of IS, would be destroying US funded eqipment, amonst other contradictions that American policy has created for itself.

I could be wrong, but the human being has digressed from the enlightenment. At least americans anyway.

Posted by: geoff29 | Aug 29 2014 23:53 utc | 55

@52 Oui

re: UANI

a recent article by Philip Giraldi

Billionaires Make War on Iran

Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 30 2014 0:09 utc | 56

First the good news: For the Ukie junta, the victories will keep getting closer to home. The reporters won’t have to travel so far, and the supply lines will be shorter, saving much needed petrol.

Second, it all comes down to the upcoming NATO Summit. We are seeing a lot of nervous preening and posturing before the big event. An event, by the way, which is clearly off-balance, overtaken by the rapidity of transpiring battles in the now, terminally ill, Borderlands. Mark Galeotti’s recent piece in the Moscow Times, "Donetsk Is Neither Grozny Nor Stalingrad" will go down in the annals of whoring punditry as almost uniquely out of touch with the real world. No worry, I believe he is tenured. Still, I wish I could get paid for that trash.

The big question, of course, is what Merkel will decide to do. If she sits on the fence any longer, it will take major surgery to pry her off. Disfiguring surgery. And this is already happening. Russia's strategy is to ignore the hectoring taunts coming from the US-led Baltic zone and focus on prying off tasty small chunks of the tender southern flank: Slovakia, Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria, and so on. Should she succeed, and all signs are that she will over time, then Germany will find herself losing parts of her Euro-finance empire, the EU will be threatened, and NATO will be vanquished as irrelevant. Slava Moskva!

Sooner or later, large parts of the EU -- Greece, Italy, Spain, and France will decide that they can no longer afford to play this insanely destructive game of chicken and continue supporting an EU austerity regime that has only ground themselves into dusty irrelevance. At that point, Germany will still be stuck on the fence -- but now, looking and smelling for all the world like a grilling goose on a turning rotisserie spit -- and it will be in no one's interest anymore to pry her off. Oh, the Schadenfreude!

On the other hand, if she turns hawk at the summit and sides with NATO, German industry will be destroyed. Who will buy her wares in the non-aligned world if she openly sides with the evil empire? Russia and China won’t step in to save her. Brazil, Japan and Taiwan will be laughing all the way to the bank. The US has no industry left to modernize, so it can’t help out. Germany, like the US, depends on its soft power to grease the skids in its business affairs with the world. To willfully destroy it is tantamount to treason. Despite the bleating of neo-cons in all countries, including Germany, hard power is losing its power of persuasion in the coming New Multipolar World Order™, and is only money wasted on following the clearly discredited US model of hollowing out the Homeland to little outside effect. The world has grown tired of Gorillas pounding their chests in rage. Putin’s role model is Teddy Roosevelt, not George W. Bush. Speak softly, and maintain an agile judo stance.

But that would be the least of our worries. If Germany throws her weight behind NATO, we would see endless rounds of deepening sanctions until, eventually, a new Iron Curtain was established; the entire world would fall into the deepest depression; riots would break out in every Western country involved in this mess; governments would fall en masse; and a possible World War would be seen as the only solution for the elite. That is, if one sees destroying the world in order to save it as a solution. For China and South America, this would be a very hard sell. If it trod down this criminal path, any nation, including the US and Germany, would instantly destroy whatever soft power it had left for eternity.

The new Iron Curtain would be seen as the only way -- for the West now, instead of the East -- to prevent their area of influence from shrinking. An Ironic Curtain, anyone? And what would Europe do for energy needs once it cuts off its Russian nose to spite its European face?

Truly, there are no good options left for Germany -- or the artist once known as Great Britain, for that matter, who would soon be facing a Wales referendum next, only to be followed by Cornwall, in all probability. (Who would then consider itself lucky to re-unite with Normandy!) At the outset of this Victoria Nuland-staged period piece, Germany, as the de facto leader of Europe, should have had the temerity to have bitten the bullet it has held gingerly between its teeth since 1945 -- and stood up to the evil empire, once and for all. If it can endure the harsh North Sea gales in winter, it would have endured the worst that US spying and paid fifth columns could have thrown at it -- and siding with Russia from the start, it would have been well on its way by now towards a glorious partnership. It would have been an extraordinarily steep price to pay for several years, but recovery to full blown, robust, and stable health would have been rapid after that. Europe would be whole and healthy again, and we would not have to watch endless re-runs of Monty Python’s “Black Knight” lopping off parts of his own body and pretending to enjoy it: What is funny for others is not fun for ourselves.

So, where are we now? Still trying to square the circle? Still gnawing off small bits of the cracker, while promising we won’t eat it all?

The US appears to have England, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, Poland and the Baltics firmly in its pockets. But after that, nothing is assured. As the current world order crumbles, everything else is up for grabs.

Quo Vadis Europe?; Quo Vadis, Nulandistan?; Quo Vadis, Germany?; Quo Vadis Scotland?

Oh, did I forget to mention the rump Ukraine? Fahgettaboudit, it’s irrelevant at this point. Yats should never have thought he was Yaz, and Nuland ain’t no New York Casey Stengel.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 30 2014 0:38 utc | 57

The headline of this thread correctly says "Ukraine Lost A Battle". Some commentators are interpreting this one battle as evidence that the rebels are going to win the war; e.g. Mike Maloney #30 above thinks it's "safe prediction that Kiev is doomed". I continue to think the rebels are going to lose the war, and my fundamental reason is based on a body of information I acquired in April 2014, before the war started: the rebels have only a small base of support among the population of east Ukraine.

Obama said yesterday: "This is not a homegrown, indigenous uprising in eastern Ukraine." I don't agree with that choice of words. I say the uprising is largely homegrown and indigenous, but it doesn't have widespread support among the indigenous population. It definitely didn't have much indigenous support a few months ago. And I don't see factors at play changing a lot of people's minds today.

The evidence about popular support from a few months ago was discussed by many people at the time, including by me on this board at the time, and consisted primarily of (1) the numerous opinion polls in March and April in the East by different polling agencies using respectable methods, and (2) the very small turnout size at anti-Kiev street demonstrations at weekends in March and April in the East. And as one secondary consideration in two pieces, (a) Ukraine's government and political establishment committed itself belately in April to genuine decentralization, which polls show the East strongly wants, and (b) the Russian government consistently and repeatedly advocated in favor of peaceful decentralization (Putin said on 7 May 2014 that the rebels are "illegal armed units of radicalized elements") and the effect of those two pieces was to further de-legitimize the armed rebellion in the minds of the majority of people in the East at the time when the rebellion was sprouting.

Most people in east Ukraine don't accept the separatist spirit of the rebels, nor the violent methods of the rebels, nor significant parts of the rebel propaganda themes. This means rebels don't have a large indigenous recruitment base and can't win in the long term agaist Kiev unless Kiev were to have a failure of willpower. I am confident that Kiev is NOT going to have a failure of willpower because, once again, Kiev knows that the majority of the population in the East has been saying they want the East to remain within the Ukraine nation-state, and thereby Kiev has a solid basis for believing its fight is a virtuous fight. Kiev not going to have a failure of willpower when it thinks its fight is virtuous and it has the knowledge that it has the resources to win the fight militarily in the longterm.

Ukraine's president Poroshenko said on 25 Apr 2014: "Power should be decentralized.... To the regions we would give autonomy on finances, and what language to speak, what monuments to build. That is what people need.... An elected local council would elect an executive committee [to appoint the regional governor]. Not appointed in Kiev by the president as today. Only defense, military, security, and police would be controlled from the center." -- Source.

Posted by: Parviziyi | Aug 30 2014 1:49 utc | 58

Sorry, Parviziyi,

The chicken has flown the coop, the cat is out of the bag, the leaves have fallen from the tree, the ice cream has melted and ran.

Putin will absolutely not allow an enemy state the size of the Ukraine on his border -- it is an existential issue for Russia. Numerous Russian elites have gone on record confirming this fact. Russia has planned for this moment since the Soviet Union broke up. This was always a possibility, now it is a reality. Russia will act, under the cloak of plausible deniability, and Ukraine will become part of the Customs Union. Whatever part refuses to go along will be destroyed. That is the reality, regardless of what we wish or want.

So therefore, what we have is a proxy war and public opinion will be manufactured as needed. Why do you ignore how much opinion has changed in the Donbass since Porky began shelling and killing locals en masse? Who cares what people believed in April and May, before their mother was killed right in front of them? Public opinion has radicalized. Elsewhere, almost no one in the country supports the economic performance of the junta. Their support is as thin and undependable as river ice in the spring sun.

Surely you are bright enough to understand political speech. The few crumbs Poroshenko is proposing to throw to the regions have nothing to do with foreign, economic, trade, or military policies. And that is where the rub is. Russia will not allow the West to steal this jewel and direct it towards Russia's destruction. To think otherwise, is to play the fool.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 30 2014 2:33 utc | 59

There seems to big some big changes happening over the past few days in eastern Ukraine. It is almost impossible to discern what is happening reading the western press. Two facts are without doubt.

First the UA and it's volunteer militias (i.e. right sector and oligarch supported units) have suffered a major defeat at the hands of the Donbas militias.

Second these defeats were the result of the Donbas militias on the battlefield who have been resisting the "western" invasion since last June at least.

The response to this latest change on the battlefield is to blame the Russians for sending in its troops. This is obviously not true, though no one will deny that many Russians are backing the Donbas rebellion. However it looks like it is not just the Kiev regime making this claim but it is also coming out more strongly from the Nato command, Britain, some EU nations but more importantly from the US government (OMG listen to ravings off Samantha Power in the UN) but also including from Obama himself.

Obama allowing himself to jump in here is really dangerous. It is obvious that his policy towards Ukraine is now in complete disarray. By coming out in public and blaming the Russians for his failed policies definitely raises the stakes in this game. He is drawing another red line even if he is denying it. It means Obama will have to respond with some kind of escalation in order to "teach those Russians a lesson". Since the Russians are not responsible for the successes of the Donbas militias (except in very indirect ways) Obama's responses will not change one iota the facts on the ground that are now being created. The danger is that Obama will start to think his personal honor is on the line and will do something really stupid like trying to change the military reality in eastern Ukraine. That could become dangerous big time, not just for Ukraine and Russia but for the whole planet.

Would that be ironic? The first black man elected president of the US leads us into a nuclear war because he wants to demonstrate to all of the white men that he "has what it takes" to lead the "free" world.

Posted by: ToivoS | Aug 30 2014 2:50 utc | 60

@Malooga #67:

Whatever part refuses to go along will be destroyed.

I wouldn't put it that way. I would say that the social collapse of such parts will not be impeded. I don't see a Grozny scenario emerging in the rump Ukraine; Ukrainian nationalism is not as robust an ideology as Wahhabism.

Also, I think you're seeing this in too top-down a manner, in terms of "Russia acting". This is a civil war, and what determines the outcome of wars is largely the fighting spirit/morale of each side and the degree of competence of the different levels of their militaries. Clearly, Novorossia has a clear advantage in both these factors. The fundamental reason why Novorossia will win is not that Russia will make it so, but because Ukrainian nationalism is based on a lie, namely, that there is such a thing as the Ukrainian people, who are a glorious, exalted race. Whereas the Novorossian side is fighting based on a proven principle, that Russians don't like fascism and smash it when it attacks them.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 30 2014 2:59 utc | 61

Posted by: Parviziyi | Aug 29, 2014 9:49:28 PM | 66

Thanks for that sober (and sobering) assessment. However, it overlooks several critical factors...
1. Kiev is on the verge of bankruptcy and its Western backers are being (typically) parsimonious with funding.
2. It's not even debatable that Kiev's assault on the RESIDENTS, CIVILIAN and INDUSTRIAL infrastructure of the East are self-defeating TERRORISM and the best possible recruitment tool for the 'rebels'.
3. Winter is coming and the first cold snap will be a game-changer in the EU. People like Marine Le Penn (Fr) have already pointed out the idiocy of the EU following Yankee dictates with ALL the blowback falling on EU citizens and NONE on the Yankees. The first EU citizens with cold tootsies, in the first Winter Preview, will be hunting down their (traitorous, bribed) politicians in the streets. And that will set a precedent for the next cold spell.

The Yankees have lost this one. Real wars can't be won by an utterly corrupt, incurious, Mainstream Media repeating the infantile lies of politicians living in splendid isolation, with well-stuffed pockets, in ivory towers.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 30 2014 3:10 utc | 62

Israel has NOT endorsed the Anti-Russian hysteria as far as I am aware. This a plus for a peaceful settlement in Ukraine given the enormous power of the Zionist lobby.

Posted by: Andoheb | Aug 30 2014 3:16 utc | 63

@ToivoS #68:

I don't think what Obama says or does is that significant, so long as he keeps on making it clear that he is not going to take any military action to prop up the Kiev junta. The Empire has shifted to leading from behind. Thus it is Britain which is organizing a rapid deployment force consisting of troops taken from the most Russophobic members of NATO.

When it comes to the response of Western countries to developments in the former Ukraine, I think the most significant issue is whether Germany is going to continue being America's bitch.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 30 2014 3:18 utc | 64

Poland has, between the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 21st centuries, vastly exceeded its historical allotment of "Loony Leaders". Read the history of the 20th century. Poland probably provoked WW1 and WW2 in its attempts to "contain" both the "Russian and German threat" by playing the national interests of both those great European powers against each other, in one lunatic gambit after another. Poland is the great empire that might have been and they have never gotten over that. Dr. Strangelove himself, Z big-nut Brzezinski is probably, actually, a milquetoast moderate in terms of loony Polish geopolitical schemers.

Posted by: Marc | Aug 30 2014 3:47 utc | 65


' It is obvious that his policy towards Ukraine is now in complete disarray. ... The danger is that Obama will start to think his personal honor is on the line ... That could become dangerous big time, not just for Ukraine and Russia but for the whole planet. '

It is not only 'his' policy towards Ukraine that is now in complete disarray. If Obama were concerned about his 'personal honor' we would never have arrived at the state we are in today. Obama is a nihilist, a pitchman extraordinaire. He's in it for the payoff at the end of term, a la Clinton, and it seems he still believes the 'smart guys' ... Jamie Demon, John Brennan, et. al. ... will be able to salvage his 'pension'. Even if the scales fell from his eyes and he began to doubt the omniscience of his bosses ... he's proven he's not up to acting on his own.

That's the way it looks to me, at any rate.

Posted by: john francis lee | Aug 30 2014 3:52 utc | 66

@66 Parviziyi.. thanks for your alternate viewpoint, but i have to agree with malooga and demian here in the general direction this is going in, short of the usa doing something extremely stupid like going into a nuclear war with russia. russia is in a commanding position locally..this also favours eastern ukraine's independence from kiev.

Parviziyi quote "Most people in east Ukraine don't accept the separatist spirit of the rebels, nor the violent methods of the rebels, nor significant parts of the rebel propaganda themes. This means rebels don't have a large indigenous recruitment base and can't win in the long term agaist Kiev unless Kiev were to have a failure of willpower."

let me re-write it for you circa the end of august 2014. "Most people in east Ukraine don't accept the inclusive spirit of the kiev gov't/junta, nor the violent methods, nor significant parts of it's propaganda themes. This means the kiev gov't/junta doesn't have a large indigenous recruitment base and can't win in the long term against eastern ukraine unless eastern ukraine were to have a failure of willpower." the very end part definitely isn't in the cards given what hostilities the kiev gov't/junta has dumped on these people since the spring...
at what point does kiev stop listening to the warmongers from the usa/cia? that is the 64,000 question to me.. they may not as they seem to be in a death spiral of sorts here financially speaking.. i suppose that would be a reason to cling to the imf/usa/cia all the more out of what? fear - not strength.. this will only bring more hardship and suffering for all of ukraine, not just eastern ukraine where they are dropping the bombs indiscriminately..

Posted by: james | Aug 30 2014 3:56 utc | 67

@ James @ 75

"at what point does kiev stop listening to the warmongers from the usa/cia? that is the 64,000 question to me.."

When the IMF stops sending money... The leaders (and followers) of the Junta are opportunistic oligarchis parasites. They are also trashy bumpikns. They wont hesitate to bite the hand feeding them in the tackiest and most public way, the moment it stops feeding them

Posted by: Marc | Aug 30 2014 4:05 utc | 68

Malooga #67 I agree completely and also with Demian's #69 qualifications, which add some texture.

Russia has conducted a virtuoso performance of minimalism. I have to believe the Russians are bursting with pride for Novorossiya, now that NAF has shown what it can do (as Russia must have anxiously allowed the space for all along). And of course now from Lavrov, Putin and Glazyev in the last 36 hours or so comes this whole new picture of Novorossiya the nation, able to secure its borders and thus be part of Russia MIC, and soon to join the Eurasian union.

I think that Russia will continue with its little moves, touches and nudges. I agree with what you say Malooga about what Russia will not allow to happen with Ukraine. The final disposition will be elegant and fitting with the tides of history.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 30 2014 4:16 utc | 69

Though I celebrate the Novorossian victory, I fear that the US neocon will achieve their geopolitical goal whether the Novorossians win or lose. Even if Russian gains the eastern Ukraine or even the whole Ukraine and still lose Europe, than, it is a Russian defeat and a Neocon victory.

The solution out of this mess is not in the battlefield. It's not even in Ukraine. I agree with Malooga that the key is in Germany.

Posted by: PuppetMaster | Aug 30 2014 4:29 utc | 70

@james #75:

I just watched a 55 minute (!) interview (no subs) with the Defense Minister of the DPR, Vladimir Kononov. He said that when he asked Ukes who had been taken prisoner why they had come to his land to kill his people, what they ended up saying is that they were fighting for "a unitary Ukraine" (единую Украину). This idea of a unitary Ukraine is a Uke nationalistic mantra. Since this crisis began, over and over I have heard Ukes reciting it. And a federal state to them is not "unitary". So they are fighting against something that Americans, Canadians, and Germans take for granted, namely, that they live under a federal system of government. Obviously, the reason that Ukes are against federalization is that they want Kiev to have centralized control over the whole country, so Kiev can Ukrainize everyone, even if they are culturally Russian, Hungarian, or Romanian.

Of course, USG is 100% on board with this project, because it would turn all Ukrainian citizens into virulent Russophobes.

One of the many obvious questions that the Western media never asks about this war is why is there a civil war to keep eastern Ukrainians inside Ukraine if they want to leave it, when England is letting the Scots have a referendum about whether they want to stay in the UK?

Posted by: Demian | Aug 30 2014 4:29 utc | 71

@Demian 69:

You think I was a little over the top there? Yes, you are right for sure.
I might have said rendered economically and politically non-threatening.

As for the federalization thing -- its been hammered in for years. If they see another way working that belief could fade over time.
Ukrainization is fascism. It doesn't respect the right of minorities -- and there are too many of them to go along with that. Live and let live. Even in the US where people are rabid about English being the national language, no one has problems with eight languages on goverment forms, or Spanish TV stations. Well, at least not enough to go to war and risk your own life over it.

The Muslim Brotherhood would have eventually tried the same game in Egypt, except over religion -- in a country with almost 15 million Copts. Madness. But divide and conquer is the Western way.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 30 2014 5:08 utc | 72


Ukraine. 08/30/2014-04:07


The commander of territorial battalion “Donbass” (a subdivision of Ukranian punitive troops) Semen Semenchenko posted a contradictory message:

“Today until 10:00 a.m. all troops resisting captivity (under Ilovaysk) will be allowed free passage with flags and personal weapons to rejoin main ATO forces. Military hardware has been blown.”

He also added the surrendered will be exchanged for the detained Russia’s paratroopers.

“Question – may Russia be trusted? Of course not. What were the contingencies? Do not know, but neither I nor you will give up any patch of home land. What has happened to the combatant ultimatum till 6 a.m.? From President’s words, he succeeded to cancel the ultimatum. What will happen if Russia bluffs? I do not want to think about it, just keep fingers crossed.”

Russian Spring


Message from combatants:

South of Gorlovka, the nazi-skunks were kicked out of settlement Krasniy Partizan (Red Guerilla). Gorlovka buddies – respect.

From media: “The combatant forces shot down four fighter jets Su-25 of Ukrainian Air Force: one over territory of Lugansk Republic, other three - in Donetsk. From words of Prime-Minister of Donetsk Republic Aleksandr Zakharchenko, all warplanes were shot in night. Two crushed near Mariupol’, where the combatants do not control territory.”

In afternoon, two fighter jets and one Cu-27 (used as reconnaissance) attempted anattack on the combatants in Starobeshevo. They were also shot and possibly damaged.

Russian Spring


Prognosis from blogger Cassad:


1. Seems the combatants are not in hurry to storm Mariupol`. They have bypassed the city – too much was pulled in for defense – and unraveled clashes for Mariupol`-Berdyansk route on territory of Zaporozh`e. There the combatants encounter an operative vacuum, which allows for few days of success.

2. The south front is broken up in series of caldrons, which are being ground. The junta sustains large losses in search of soft spots in encirclement. This results in bloodsheds, both sides suffer serious losses. The fluent activities are understandable – just few more days before the hardware will stand still for lack of supplies. The junta succeeded to break the siege under Elenovka (Olenovka)

3. The junta in hurry churns out reserves to remedy recent defeats. Over next 2-3 days a likeness of south-west front line, currently split in two, will be restored.

Posted by: Fete | Aug 30 2014 5:21 utc | 73

Malooga #67 said: "Who cares what people believed in April and May, before their mother was killed right in front of them? Public opinion has radicalized." Hoarsewhisper #70 said similarly: "Kiev's assault on the RESIDENTS, CIVILIAN and INDUSTRIAL infrastructure of the East are self-defeating TERRORISM and the best possible recruitment tool for the 'rebels'." That's a debatable and questionable point.

First, there isn't a method to quantify public opinion in East Ukraine today. Therefore, the claim that public opinion has radicalized in the rebels' favor is a matter of judgement under uncertainty. Different judges do make different judgements about it. I saw in Syria that when the Syrian government bombed Aleppo city with barrel-bombs, it did not cause the population of Aleppo city to radicalize in favor of the Syrian rebels. For civilians who were already committed supporters of the rebels, the government bombing in Aleppo, and in east Ukraine, certainly increased the intensity of their anti-government sentiment. But for those who were anti-rebel, the question is much more undecided and uncertain, and you'd have to ask them to find out their sentiments. To help you appreciate this, imagine that your own neighborhood was taken over by ISIS and the government attacked with a heavy hand that killed civilians and destroyed civilian infrastructure. It wouldn't convert you to ISIS, would it? Suppose your neighborhood was taken over by some other kind of insurgents more palatable to you than ISIS, whose cause you did NOT support nor much oppose -- would the government's action cause you to start supporting them? You can't be sure. And you're talking about yourself. I don't think you should presume that heavy-handed government action causes widespread shift in sentiment towards rebels, in general, anywhere, though it potentially could in some specific cases. I haven't seen concrete evidence of recent shift towards the rebel cause in Ukraine, and particularly not widespread shift. I can't say it's not occurring, just that good indicators of it are not on display (to my knowledge), and if it was occurring I'd expect some indicators would be on display, and at the same time I expect inertia as general rule in people's political opinions, anywhere, including in east Ukraine. I care what people believed in April, because that's where the concrete evidence is available.

Posted by: Parviziyi | Aug 30 2014 6:05 utc | 74

Interesting piece over at about how the European press has become a regurgitator of US propaganda, whereas it wasn't before:

The European press has always had it pro-American stooges, or as they are called in polite language, fervent Atlanticists, ready to spread the core postulates of the US (and by extension, Israeli) worldview to their readers. I am thinking here of the people like Joseph Joffe and the ever-ridiculous ball of vanity and intellectual superficiality known as Bernard-Henri Lévy.

But for much of the last three decades, they constituted but one current among many other competing strains in the European press.

Since approximately 2004, however, their specific gravity within European opinion-making apparatus – as evidenced by the changes at El País and other similar "liberal" media outlets – has increased dramatically. Now simplistic American assumptions about who is bad and who is good once chuckled at on the continent, are the new normal in the editorial boards Europe’s "prestige press".

And because of this, the US can now impose its invented "imperial realities" upon Europe’s citizenry with relative ease.

The author notes that he can't explain why or how this happened. It is too late at night for me to try to come up with possible explanations. But certainly it must have something to do with how neoliberalism became the established orthodoxy among European elites at about the same time.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 30 2014 6:15 utc | 75

Shakhtar Donetsk is a well-known professional soccer team. It is currently in the #1 position in Ukraine's professional soccer league table this season, after five games played this season so far. The season started five weeks ago. The team has relocated to a stadium in Lviv for the duration of the fighting in Donetsk. The stadium in Lviv has 34,000 seats. The team's home stadium in Donetsk city has 52,000 seats. Another soccer stadium for another soccer team is under construction on the outskirts of Donetsk city and will have 17,000 seats when completed.

The number of armed rebels in east Ukraine is about 5,000 according to many estimators, and that's either counting or not counting the blow-ins from Russia and Crimea. If you go with the estimators who estimate 10,000 men instead, or even if you go with the few outlying estimators or propagandists who say it's approaching 20,000, it's still substantially smaller than the number of adult male spectators who show up at any soccer stadium of any big team on any weekend of the season. It's also small compared to the number of soldiers in Ukraine's standing army, and compared to the number of soldiers in the army of a country that has compulsory conscription, as Ukraine does.

Another point I'd like to make with the soccer stuff is that outside Donetsk/Lughansk the rest of Ukraine is getting along with ordinary life, going to soccer games and paying taxes, while the economy in the rebel homeland is coming to a standstill. Kiev is far, far better positioned to fight a war of attrition than the rebels are. Hoarsewhiper #70 noted that Kiev may be on the verge of some sort of paper-based legal bankruptcy. Even so, its real economy would continue to tick over, just like a private company continues to operate pretty normally when it's under bankruptcy court supervision. Hoarsewhisper #70 noted the Western backers are looking like they're going to be parsimonious with funding Kiev. Even so, the few billion they're currently promising is potent. One billion is enough to carry 75,000 soliders for a year at a cost of 14,000 per soldier. Three billion is enough to do it for three years.

Posted by: Parviziyi | Aug 30 2014 6:20 utc | 76

@Parviziyi #83:

Another point I'd like to make with the soccer stuff is that outside Donetsk/Lughansk the rest of Ukraine is getting along with ordinary life

You make Ukrainians sound like they don't mind living under fascism, with their men being forced to kill innocent civilian fellow citizens, and most likely to end up as cannon fodder for the effort. Do Ukrainians really have such little concern about human life, not only for fellow citizens, but also for their family members?

Posted by: Demian | Aug 30 2014 6:31 utc | 77

Two Russian Diplomats Missing in Ukraine

Russian authorities claim that the Third Secretary of the Embassy Andrey Golovanov and the Attaché Mikhail Shorin were arrested earlier this week by local police.

The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry admitted their detention, according to Russian authorities, however, the Interior Ministry denies both arrests.

“In connection with such contradictory reports from Ukrainian authorities, the Russian Embassy in Ukraine is forced to officially declare the disappearance of [Golovanov and Shorin] in the territory of Ukraine,” Russia’s Embassy said in a statement on Friday.

The nazis are desperate to provoke Russia.

IMF to Give US$1.4 Billion Loan To Ukraine

A condition of the funds is a severe austerity program including firing 24,000 government employees, removing gas subsidies, tax increasing and selling of state assets.

The neoliberals are desperate to sink their fangs and claws into Ukraine.

The people of Western Ukraine need to take the measures the people of Eastern Ukraine have taken, before the nazi bandits have sold the whole of Ukraine to the neo-liberal West.

Posted by: john francis lee | Aug 30 2014 6:56 utc | 78


Why wouldnt the uprising be coming from the people itself in the eastern ukraine? As obama and yourself said earlier?

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2014 7:29 utc | 79

About UANI, thanks for the links …
Posted by: Yul | Aug 29, 2014 6:12:27 PM | 54
Posted by: skoalbrother | Aug 29, 2014 7:39:04 PM | 62


The same group of neocons is a mouthpiece for MEK and spy Pollard. I'm looking at next level up, the intelligence must have come from inside NSA and Israel's Unit 8200.

Posted by: Oui | Aug 30 2014 7:30 utc | 80

re: UANI

Also appreciation for link:
Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 29, 2014 8:09:58 PM | 64

Posted by: Oui | Aug 30 2014 7:35 utc | 81


'New York Times’ profile of group bent on sanctioning Iran fails to mention Israel connections
Mondoweiss | Alex Kane on June 28, 2013 |

Tiny excerpt:

The group is also close to the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations. Last year, The Forward’s Nathan Guttman reported that “UANI has strong ties to the Jewish community and is supported by the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations.” The Jewish group’s website also feature an ad for UANI prominently.

But the Times’ Gladstone did not mention any of these Israel lobby connections. By doing so, the “paper of record” didn’t provide the full picture about the hawkish group–and did a disservice to their readers.

Uploaded videos by same group AgainstNuclearIran.

Posted by: Oui | Aug 30 2014 7:59 utc | 82

@pluto #3

You said:"I cannot recall a year like 2014, when so many monumental dollar-hegemony-killing agreements have been signed by the world outside the Western Dog Kennel. This has acted as a horrible undertow to the TTP and the TTIF, forcing participants to struggle with hedging against what very much looks like the marginalization of a failing world power. Little wonder that some multinationals are migrating out of there. Or, is it just me?"

From my point of view, TTIP and TTP could be seen as the successors to the petrodollar and dollar as global reserve currency. Because these 2 agreements spell out the US corporatist hegemony in clear legal terms instead of the indirect dollar inflation export. Or in other words, the conversion of a 'soft' tax via the dollar reserve to a 'hard' legal regime in the spirit of the Commonwealth trade limitations/zone that the British used in the Pax Brittanica era.

@Parvizi #58

You said: "Most people in east Ukraine don't accept the separatist spirit of the rebels, nor the violent methods of the rebels, nor significant parts of the rebel propaganda themes. "

I would agree with that. However, I would also agree that these same people don't have the nationalist spirit of the junta. And I would apply this description to pretty much the entire Ukrainian present area (it isn't a nation anymore).

This could be wrong. We'll find out when General Winter arrives and there will be real suffering under the watch of the present Kiev regime.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 30 2014 8:42 utc | 83


I’m having a harder and harder time taking you seriously as I read your arguments.

“One billion is enough to carry 75,000 soliders for a year at a cost of 14,000 per soldier. Three billion is enough to do it for three years.”

They’ve had three mobilizations already. Men up to 60 can now be drafted. Where are they going to get these 75k men from? At a burn rate of 500/week, how long will they last?

Meanwhile, in Zaporizhia, Sich Motor employs 27k people who are out of work. With the standard job multipliers, that is half the city. You think they won’t join Novorussia?

In Mariupol, the Ukies claim to have 3,000 fighters to defend the city --the actual number after desertions is probably half that. Yet, according to the BBC's correspondent, the pro-Ukraine unity rally only drew a few hundred people in a city of 300,000-400,000. These are facts, not suppositions.

I can’t say I know what public opinion is like in the Donbass, because not being there, I don’t. But, having watched as much video as I have, I believe I have a strong sense that opinion is running strongly against the junta.

If you are really interested in learning more, and not just trolling, here is some stuff to watch. I’d be interested to know if any of it changes your opinion. None of it is the slick stuff like Vice, its all pretty much straight out there, WYSIWYG stuff.

must watch movie: Ukraine Crisis: Donbass. Chronicle of Genocide. Banned on TV

See also youtube channels: anti-maidan, electropostman,
websites: colonel cassad,
reporters: Graham W. Phillips

I have watched probaby 100 hours of locals cursing out the junta.

Of course, YMMV.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 30 2014 8:53 utc | 84

@Malooga #84:

I can’t say I know what public opinion is like in the Donbass, because not being there, I don’t.

Isn't it just normal human behavior that if somebody bombs you with artillery and air strikes, you start thinking of them as the enemy and hating them, and don't want to have anything to do with them? Western Ukies are fed non-stop propaganda that the Novorossian army are shelling their own people and infrastructure. That's a main reason why Ukies feel righteous about the war, for which they use the doubly dehumanizing term ATO. (People who don't like your form of government (fascism) are "terrorists"; shelling peaceful civilians and infrastructure is an "operation", not genocide.) The people of Novorossiya know who is wantonly, deliberately killing them.

I think that tells you all you need to know about what Novorossian public opinion is concerning the fascist junta.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 30 2014 9:19 utc | 85

Appeal to the mothers of Ukraine

„Let my people go,

Oppress’d so hard they could not stand,

Let my People go.”

The peoples of Europe are suppressed. Don’t fool yourself that living in the EU is good. It is not. The living standard of the average German has fallen in the last 15 years. The living standards of the Greeks, the Spanish and many others have been smashed. The EU is an instrument for the exploitation of the average people to the benefit of the few. And this is why your Oligarchs want you to be in the EU: To institutionalize your suffering and exploitation.

For me, as a German with strong liberal views, it is hard to say this, but it is true: The hope for a better Europe today comes from the East.

If Ukraine goes to the West, it will go into the sunset of a declining part of the world.

If you go East, you will go into the sunrise of a rich and prosperous commonwealth.

I wished we in Germany would have the choice that you have.

Make your choice wisely.

Dr. Bernhard Seitz, Stuttgart, Germany

Posted by: john francis lee | Aug 30 2014 9:35 utc | 86

The Uke continue to destroy Novorossian infrastructure. They blew up a bridge in the DPR, in an attempt to impede the rebels' advance: striking photo. (I wish it had been taken with a decent camera.)

By the way, since the Uke are so zombified by their propaganda that they have become Borg-like, I've decided that there is no point in having both singular and plural forms of the word "Uke". If a Uke showed any ability to think as an individual, he would stop being a Uke. Thus, there is no Uke individuality; only the collective. Same as the Borg from Star Trek.

Der Einzige ist Nichts. Das Volk ist Alles.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 30 2014 11:36 utc | 87


Why bomb the bridge at the "beginning" of the bridge where it connect to the land? Why not bomb it in the middle of the bridge causing alot more damage? That bridge will not be hard to repear.
Its like I have a car and someone crack the rear window instead of cracking the engine.

Its like the junta have no logic at all and its obviously not the first time they do these stupid things, no wonder they aint' winning.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2014 12:29 utc | 88

Semen Sementchenko, commander of Donbass Battalion gives up

Arrived at the checkpoint. The situation is as follows: three cauldrons are surrounded. Novokaterinovka, Starobeshevo and Chervonopilske. The last part of Donbass and the remnants of units that did not give up. Cheered the boys on the phone. Lists only be able to start now, all night there was no connection. Where the group commander and all the battalion commanders are is still unknown.

There is a problem, which we hope to quickly resolve. Military unit, which is surrounded near Chervonopilske with the lads, knows nothing about the arrangement and gave another two hours to surrender. Hopefully, it's just slow gears of military bureaucracy. Informed the President, the National Guard commander. Forced to come into contact with Russian airborne reconnaissance with a view to delay the deadline of the ultimatum that could have time to go team. I'll keep up to date.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 30 2014 13:07 utc | 89

Well, "First, there isn't a method to quantify public opinion in East Ukraine today."

I think it's practically unfathomable to conjecture on how it must be, or what people must collectively think about anything, anywhere else in the world in any culture. When I think just of my experience of being fated to living in the USA, which is not my fault for being born, my own thoughts regarding the current condition of this culture is the culmination of so many years, so many different moments of experience, and decisions, and careful (for me) thoughts about what I have seen. But for you, living in the Ukraine perhaps, have not seen the get togethers with friends, the hardships, and the good times as I live them, the work I have done to survive, the dialects, the innuendos, I may as well be explaining life on another planet.

If I were to relate any of my individual circumstances to someone from the Ukraine, perhaps, what interpretation would that invoke? Perhaps that life in the USA is relatively soft, for example? And indeed based on certain criteria perhaps it may have been? Maybe, but to compare our situations, and to derive any kind of conclusion as to what my experience is, is to accuse me of having been born in the first place. I am not that Cinna, I would say paraphrasing Shakespeare. So, so many people in comments such as are here cry out, "but that's not who we are as Germans." Whoever you may be, you might do what you were told if you mother or sister or father or brother were threatened with some appalling bestiality, and their survival depended on you.

If you were to inquire of my next door neighbor about the status of life in the USA, he would tell you that baseball is the most important thing in the world, and has no concern regarding fascism arriving in this little village. Yet outside his little domicile hangs a plaque which reads, "Wise village elder.!" Where is Socrates to travel around challenging the proclaimed "wise" people who live in every village anywhere, before you would ever locate just one person, a Joseph Conrad, for example, who could discourse with you regarding some general trend in human nature, about life far from home. For most people, if they are adequately fed, and have shelter, they are placated. All else is trivial.

And, predicting the future without caveats, will never work, it's better to listen to the language of birds, or to scatter bones on the ground and attempt to decipher them. Perhaps Reagan was right! If we all had the internet during the dark ages, we all would have known better, what outrage there would have been about the slaughter of indigenous people!

Best to conclude that the outcome will be "ironic," perhaps bitterly so, rather than say this will happen or that.

Posted by: geoff29 | Aug 30 2014 13:31 utc | 90

Hoarsewhisperer;Please ,these clowns aint Yankees,I'm a Yankee,and proud of it,these clowns are metrosexual Zionist hate mongers and furriners.
Anybody see how some Ziomonster attacked George Galloway?Who da Nazis?
Yankee come home!

Posted by: dahoit | Aug 30 2014 14:02 utc | 91

Innocent Poland piggybacked on the Nazi's and 1938 and stole Czech land. This is why Churchill called them hyenas.

Poland wanted to be an expansionist power but was too weak to do much. This hardly constitutes victim hood.

Posted by: purple | Aug 30 2014 15:00 utc | 92

At long last - Obama reveals his strategy for solving the ISIS crisis

Posted by: Anon E Mouse | Aug 30 2014 15:05 utc | 93

@92 Ironically its quite accurate map of what USrael are pursuing, except one mistake - big chunk of Iran also planned to be torn away. In multiple ways, West to Kurdistan, North to Azerbaijan, South-east to Baluchistan, etc. Unless Western and Gulf criminals are stopped now, I doubt Syria will survive as a complete state, neither will Iraq, and later - Iran.

Posted by: Harry | Aug 30 2014 15:44 utc | 94

@68 marc... the imf will continue to send money.. they are the equivalent of loan sharks who go in for the killing in areas that are desperate - ukraine being in a position of desperation at present. the problem however is ukraine isn't ukraine anymore, so those western banks which profit from the imf loans may be getting a bit queasy.. that's how i understand it.

@71 demian...i reflect back to what you said about how russia could have prevented much of the russophobia if they had of countered the american NGO's and propaganda outlets. i think they were too busy getting on their feet after the dissolution of the ussr, but 20 years is a good length of time to get going. perhaps russia felt ukraine could stand on it's own without some insane form of nationalism expressed as it has.

what you highlight in your last sentence is worth repeating and really shines a light on the lie the western media and leadership are perpetrating - it is okay for scotland to have a referendum on having it's own country, but it is not okay for the people of eastern ukraine, and nor was it for crimea according to these same liars... this must be based on this same idea of ukraine nationalism defined as intolerance of all things russian and encouraged by the same western media and leadership. how could large chunks of ukraine ever agree to a type of nationalism like that?

and, i don't recall any western leader complaining on the ussr wanting to break up either.. but when it is suggested of ukraine - that isn't allowed to happen according to these same leaders.. i sense hypocrisy and outright lying is the basis for this.

@74 Parviziyi... you appear to be walking back some of your comments @66 which is fine.. your quote "First, there isn't a method to quantify public opinion in East Ukraine today." i would challenge this by quote demian @85 "Isn't it just normal human behavior that if somebody bombs you with artillery and air strikes, you start thinking of them as the enemy and hating them, and don't want to have anything to do with them?"

one has only to look at the graphic pictures at this site to know what the people living in these areas think of the federal gov't/junta in kiev.. i think you might be fooling yourself with the western media exposure.. making a comparison to aleppo is interesting here as the usa has a hand in both places thru it's hired mercenary groups.. i think this too ought to tell you something about the nature of this "made in the us/west" conflict..

nulandistan would be a good name for what remains of ukraine after this disaster is over as it would a good reminder of who the architects of this mess were..

Posted by: james | Aug 30 2014 16:35 utc | 95

SWIFT cut off threat! (see also Pluto at 3.)

Blocking payments from one transnational corp. to another? Think Shell for ex. active in Russia and all over.. Nope.

The same applies at a lower level to payments via e.g. Visa between Russia and the US, no more Russian tourists in the US, no more Russian using Visa to buy US goods, etc.

March 2014: Visa, Mastercard resume services with 2 Russian banks blocked after US sanctions

Making empty threats is a loser ploy, even 10-year-old children understand this. Under about 10, they may make threats that they know (should they stop and think) they cannot or even do not want to carry out, they are verbal, emotional sallies that are supposed to hurt and shock: I’ll kill you! I won’t let you use my game-boy! ...

Oui, and others, as I understand it the original plan for the Transatlantic alliance (about 1950) was that Britain would provide a ‘bridge’ between a Western Europe ‘consolidated’ and run from above, and the USA. A tricky, uneasy position. That has been its function until recently. If GB wants a re-set of EU -internal- relations in its favor, or might even leave the EU, that doesn’t affect the master plan, though of course the unexpected lurks.

This document (in French, by the Center of Economics of the Sorbonne, 2013) serious, not that I can jude the content - the first part is collating official and public US documents, attempts to describe US foreign bases (foreign as outside of continental, contiguous, USA) and their ‘strength.’

via Theatrum Belli.

No of big bases - other bases (may be very small), by territory, top:

Germany: 147 - 47
Alaska: 47 - 110
Hawaii: 51- 69
Japan: 95 - 24
S.Korea: 61 - 21
Italy: 28 - 24

No. of ‘bases’ is not very informative, of course. Paper does treat ‘number of men’ ..

Malloga wrote: The US appears to have England, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, Poland and the Baltics firmly in its pockets. But after that, nothing is assured.

You forgot France (100% behind the US) and Germany. One hopes breakaways may arise, but I wouldn’t count on it for now.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 30 2014 16:50 utc | 96

@92 Anon e Mouse

:) That is a nice flight from the 9th to the 10th ...

Posted by: really | Aug 30 2014 17:04 utc | 97

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 30, 2014 12:50:43 PM | 95

Military bases per se do not necessarily translate into political influence. Germany won't take part nor France (I suppose you mean the special military Eastern task force of the willing)

The line up I saw was UK, Baltics, Poland, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark and Canada with the suggestion that it might be related to the interests of these countries in Arctic oil and gas conflicting with Russia's interest.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 30 2014 17:09 utc | 98

Not Sikorski into EC, but Mogherini from Italy to lead Foreign Affairs to succeed Lady Ashton. President to succeed Van Rompuy will be Poland's Donald Tusk - Breaking News .

Posted by: Oui | Aug 30 2014 18:31 utc | 99



Wow Mogherini seems to be a horrible warmongering person
Here she's on CNN.

And Tusk..
What friggin joke!

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2014 18:54 utc | 100

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