Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 25, 2014

Ukraine: Economy Declines, Merkel Sues For Peace

Recent statistics show that the already decaying Ukrainian economy is further turning towards depression. New money from IMF loans, if granted, will solely go into military costs. The European Union will not bail out Ukraine and Germany, hurt by Russian counter-sanctions, is suing for peace with Russia.

Nulandistan's wheels are falling off and no one one will help to repair it.

According to the Ukrainian government statistics production in July 2014 decrease compared to July 2013 (both ex-Crimea). Mining of coal and lignite was only 71% of its former numbers. Manufacture of coke and refined petroleum products was 84% of its 2013 value. Manufacture of chemicals and chemical products 77% and natural gas production and distribution was 78% of its 2013 number. As the government's fight  against the people in Ukraine's industrial heartland continues these numbers will continue to go down.

Ukraine's standard of living did not, unlike in Russia, significantly increase over the last 20 years. Since the beginning of the year inflation increased to 19% and the Ukrainian central bank had to raise interest rates from 6.5% at the beginning of 2014 to 17.5% now. This to support the value of the Ukrainian currency as the hryvnya has fallen 40% since early 2014. The banking system is coming apart:

The ratio of banks’ non-performing loans will reach 30 percent this year as credit costs rise, Moody’s Investors Service predicted in a May report.
...
Ukraine’s lenders are already in a precarious position, according to the IMF, which estimates that the nation’s biggest 22 banks would require fresh capital of as much as 5 percent of gross domestic product if the hryvnia averages 12.5 per dollar this year.

The Ukraine is now requesting a third and fourth tranche of an IMF loan but the $2.2 billion it expects to receive is about as much as it plans to additionally spend for military operations. Under the conditions of the new IMF loans Ukraine's standard of living will decrease further and poverty will rise.

Some delusional minds in Kiev may hope that the EU will hand them some money. That is not going to happen. EU economies ex Germany are in serious trouble and Germany is not eager to help either:

There is precious little enthusiasm among the German public for bailout of other Eurozone members. The idea that Germany will consent to spending tens of billions of dollars rebuilding Eastern Ukraine is completely and totally divorced from political reality. Can anyone seriously imagine Angela Merkel, whose country recently had its 2014 growth estimate downgraded to a mere 1.5%, going in front of the German public to demand a substantial outlay for Ukrainian infrastructure? It would be political suicide, and Merkel is clearly a clever enough politician to understand this.

The German government had to cut is GDP forecast because of the insecurity the sanction back and forth with Russia introduced into businesses. The issue will clearly hurt her in the polls. That is likely why she is sending peace signals to Russia:

[Merkel] mentioned Ukrainian “decentralisation”, a deal on gas prices, and Ukraine’s “trade relations” with Russia as elements that could bring about an accord [between Ukraine and Russia].
...
"I want to find a way, as many others do, which does not damage Russia. We [Germany] want to have good trade relations with Russia as well. We want reasonable relations with Russia. We are depending on one another and there are so many other conflicts in the world where we should work together, so I hope we can make progress”.

This also from an interview Merkel gave to public German TV yesterday:

A solution must be found to the Ukraine crisis that does not hurt Russia and which the Ukrainian people must choose for themselves, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Sunday.
...
"There must be dialogue. There can only be a political solution. There won't be a military solution to this conflict," she said.
...
On Saturday, her vice chancellor Sigmar Gabriel had suggested that establishing a federal Ukraine was the only viable solution to the crisis pitting Kiev against pro-Russian separatists.

Merkel said that if Ukraine opted to rejoin the Eurasian Union with Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia, then Europe would not make "a huge conflict" out of it.

Especially the last point is clearly a big step back from the earlier all out "Ukraine is EU" position.

Additionally to the economic side, pressure on Merkel also grows because there is more and more doubt, even in German mainstream media, about the veracity of the Ukrainian propaganda and about the destruction of flight MH17. Why is there is no news about it? Is there a coverup (in German)?

The wheels are coming off in Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland's new Ukraine. Her project of capturing Ukraine from Russia while letting the EU pay for it is not going as planned. The likely result of Nuland's coup in Kiev will be a destroyed Ukrainian economy and no winner at all.

Posted by b on August 25, 2014 at 17:30 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Posted by: madisolation | Aug 26, 2014 10:07:43 AM | 99

I am pretty sure there will be gas in Europe this winter. There was last time, you know.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 26 2014 14:32 utc | 101

from the Saker's blog:

This is the first time that we hear what the new - post Strelkov - commanders have to say. This is the first time that the Novorussians are going on the offensive. And this is the first time that we get to hear the views, values and ideas of the people fighting against the Nazi junta. This is truly a watershed moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yH35raTPVu8

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 26 2014 14:58 utc | 102

Great opening line in the video: "...a week ago we announced our plan to attack. We started it yesterday."

The video will show anyone who cares to know, exactly what Donetsk and Lugansk plan. They plan for independence. They have no designs on federation or anything more than simple, close friendship if possible with the rest of Ukraine. They want to be left alone in their own self-sufficient and resource-rich nation, and they will do whatever it takes for that.

Truly anyone going, directly, against what is on display in this video would be a fool, or, if indirectly, playing others for fools.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 26 2014 15:45 utc | 103

@ToivoS #84

The costs to the US would be no more than 30 or so billion per year while the crisis goes on. Let us not forget that the US was willing to spend 100 billion per year during the Iraq war.

$30 billion/year for the Ukraine is definitely a lowball figure. The Ukraine needs $40 billion per year just for gas. Plus more cash for everything their trashed economy can't produce. The total subsidy is probably more like $50 billion per year. Indefinitely.

Now half a trillion dollars per decade is a large sum, even for the USA. Especially when the accumulated federal debt is dangerously high already (over 100% of GDP). I doubt the U.S. can afford it.

Posted by: Cyril | Aug 26 2014 16:20 utc | 104

The Kiev coupists have gone insane, or are showing their true nature, or are radicalised by re-trenching, c’est selon. They want to empty the Donbass region, it is ethnic cleansing. (imho.)

There is talk of building a wall (Russian border, by Kolomoisky iiirc), of routing out collaborators ‘at home’ (Gvmt. Informers can inform over the intertubes.) Of blocking social media, the official said they would get it done but it is expensive, Saudi and China have spent a fortune. They arrest and mistreat MSM Kiev journalists if they dare report some facts (this is documented.) Some Ukrainian -still alive- soldiers claim that their buddies are being sent to insane asylums. Poroshenko has announced ‘snap elections’ and states plainly that it is a purge to get rid of Rada members who ‘support separatists.’ (1)

two ex. - eng subs

83 out of 4'700: Fighters ask, why they were sent “into certain death” ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VayoSyshgZA

Victoria Shilova, member of Dniproteprovosk City Council, thus a sort of 'Gvmt person':

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1a3_1408294557

The problems for the coup Gvmt. are multiple.

1) They have not, and probably cannot, in the long run, win the war in the Donbass, as in controlling it entirely, though they seem to be throwing all at it. Not winning rapidly as announced leads to desperation and escalation and monumental stupidities (NOT to forget in any way the dead and wounded, homes and families shattered, history will calll it genocide..)

2) insurrection at home looms. Job loss, inflation, rising prices, gas imbroglio, no future, and all those missing men that soon willl have to be accounted for, that can’t be hidden for long. The uninformed hopeful illusion of joining Europe / Nato and so on is a shattered mirror. Then what?

3) nobody is willing to pay (as b points out) as the stooges are nuts and not ‘performing’, which is one of the mains reasons Poroshenko has to flip the Rada, they have been voting in all kinds of crazy stuff, nationalist, like raising taxes on foreign cos! Shell and Exxon-Mobil have more or less pulled out of Ukraine, news, idk (? …a whole other topic), but are continuing collaboration with Russia - not affected by sanctions.

The only response envisaged is more jackboots control and a Totalitarian / Dictatorial State, but without the Donbass, or part of the East, which not only can’t, most likely, be controlled, but would, in all cases, muddy and render ineffective the control at home which will be based on ethnic purity, old fascist memes, and the like.

1. for ex: You tube - enter Anti-Maidan, eng subs, You Tube - enter Vincent Parlier, fr subs

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 26 2014 16:33 utc | 105

Cyril, it doesn't matter if the US can afford it. When you have an entirely militarized foreign policy cost is not a consideration.

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 26 2014 16:37 utc | 106

@okie farmer #106

Cyril, it doesn't matter if the US can afford it. When you have an entirely militarized foreign policy cost is not a consideration.

Not even the U.S. can ignore reality for long. When the federal debt is so dangerously high (over 100% of GDP), you never know which straw will break the camel's back. Half a trillion dollars dumped into the Ukraine in the next decade could easily be the fatal straw.

Posted by: Cyril | Aug 26 2014 16:54 utc | 107

Half a trillion dollars dumped into the Ukraine in the next decade could easily be the fatal straw.

Nobody's dumping half a trillion dollars into Ukraine (not "the" — dead giveaway it's a Russian propagandist when you use "the") — especially not Putin who's only intention ever was to rob it and load it up with debt — just like the IMF.

Kiev probably knows this, and realizes it stands a slightly better chance with the IMF. If Ukraine plays it like South Korea, it does have a chance — but that's a long shot and no doubt the IMF has created safeguards to prevent another South Korea.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Aug 26 2014 17:11 utc | 108

@Holefield #108

Nobody's dumping half a trillion dollars into Ukraine.

$400 billion over the next decade just for the Ukraine's gas. Half a trillion bucks is probably an underestimate of the subsidy the broken country will need from the generous U.S. taxpayers.

Posted by: Cyril | Aug 26 2014 17:33 utc | 109

Posted by: Cyril | Aug 26, 2014 1:33:55 PM | 109

Come on, Cyril, I know you don't believe that's going to happen. They don't give anything away.

In Iraq, they robbed poor Peter American taxpayer to pay their rich Paul, meaning the money was just a redistribution of wealth from the Middle Class to the uber-wealthy — the ones who own the defense contractors and oil companies.

I don't think they're heavily invested enough in Gazprom to redistribute it to those rough-around-the-edges crooks. Russia's still new to the Capitalist game and can't fully be trusted to keep the ball rolling, although it's getting better every day. Perhaps after Ukraine is partitioned up and Balkanized and Putin is assassinated, Russia will have finally graduated. That will be at least another decade longer though.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Aug 26 2014 18:02 utc | 110

@Holefield #110

Come on, Cyril, I know you don't believe that's going to happen. [The U.S.] don't give anything away.

So the Ukrainians become grindingly poor; and they are already poorer per head than some African countries. They sink below even African levels of misery, in a frozen land. They become totally disillusioned with the West, so they rejoin the Russian orbit. What was the point of the Maidan revolution then?

To prevent that, we may have to spend half a trillion dollars.

What a mess. The Russians were perfectly willing to support the Ukraine indefinitely. We should never have meddled.

Posted by: Cyril | Aug 26 2014 18:32 utc | 111

I can't remember if this has already been posted, but it is worth reading.

John J. Mearsheimer | How the West Caused the Ukraine Crisis | Foreign Affairs

According to the prevailing wisdom in the West, the Ukraine crisis can be blamed almost entirely on Russian aggression. Russian President Vladimir Putin, the argument goes, annexed Crimea out of a long-standing desire to resuscitate the Soviet empire, and he may eventually go after the rest of Ukraine, as well as other countries in eastern Europe. In this view, the ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych in February 2014 merely provided a pretext for Putin’s decision to order Russian forces to seize part of Ukraine.

But this account is wrong: the United States and its European allies share most of the responsibility for the crisis. The taproot of the trouble is NATO enlargement, the central element of a larger strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit and integrate it into the West. At the same time, the EU’s expansion eastward and the West’s backing of the pro-democracy movement in Ukraine -- beginning with the Orange Revolution in 2004 -- were critical elements, too. Since the mid-1990s, Russian leaders have adamantly opposed NATO enlargement, and in recent years, they have made it clear that they would not stand by while their strategically important neighbor turned into a Western bastion. For Putin, the illegal overthrow of Ukraine’s democratically elected and pro-Russian president -- which he rightly labeled a “coup” -- was the final straw. He responded by taking Crimea, a peninsula he feared would host a NATO naval base, and working to destabilize Ukraine until it abandoned its efforts to join the West. 

I have seen it refered to in a few articles in German and it is definitely showing up in the comment section of newssites.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 26 2014 20:06 utc | 112

Poroshenko wants to talk to Putin ? Is talking to Putin ? In Belorus ?

Posted by: Willy2 | Aug 26 2014 20:17 utc | 113

Counterpunch has become completely unbearable. An article there places Russia in the same class as Israel.

The idea that the responsibility for dealing with global problems lies with the world community rather than with individual nations is not a popular one among the governments of the major military powers. Indeed, they seem to believe that they are justified in doing whatever they want in the world if it serves what they consider their “national interest.” The Russian government, angered at NATO’s eastward expansion and at political developments in Ukraine, annexed Crimea and armed pro-Russian separatists. The Israeli government, attempting to incorporate Palestinian territory it conquered 47 years ago into greater Israel, has moved 500,000 settlers onto the land and staged bloody military invasions of Gaza to crush resistance.

It is as if the concept of the will of the people no longer exists. Crimeans wanted to rejoin Russia; Palestinians did not want to be ethnically cleansed.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 26 2014 21:30 utc | 114

It seems that the Saker has lived in Florida for too long. He actually takes a claim maid by the junta seriously.

Fortunately, we now have Colonel Cassad in English, who explains how to treat claims made by the junta:

it does not matter which evidence, real or fake, the junta will present, in any case it will be denied, because those are the rules of the game. When this simple thing becomes clear to you, you will be much less excited by the next "revelations" from the junta side. In general, all of it can be simply ignored, because they are presented by the enemy, against whom there is a war to its destruction.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 26 2014 21:52 utc | 115

It seems that the Saker has lived in Florida for too long. He actually takes a claim maid by the junta seriously.

Fortunately, we now have Colonel Cassad in English, who explains how to treat claims made by the junta:

it does not matter which evidence, real or fake, the junta will present, in any case it will be denied, because those are the rules of the game. When this simple thing becomes clear to you, you will be much less excited by the next "revelations" from the junta side. In general, all of it can be simply ignored, because they are presented by the enemy, against whom there is a war to its destruction.

I did not give a link to the Colonel Cassad post because when I did, the post got blocked. The spam filter blocks the English language Colonel Cassad blog.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 26 2014 21:57 utc | 116

demian - ignore american writers like the one in the counterpunch article.. they have their head up their ass just as often as not...

here is colonel cassads website... thought i would try as you imply it isn't possible.. not sure where on his page you are quoting from..

Posted by: james | Aug 26 2014 22:11 utc | 117

demian - it looks like you are right.. colonel cassad site blocked, while cold in the head continues on..

Posted by: james | Aug 26 2014 22:17 utc | 118

Natalia, the mother of the murdered Christina, wrote a letter to the mother of Poroshenko’s children, asking: “Who gave the order to kill my children?”

I met Natalia, whose daughter and granddaughter were killed in the Grad shelling of Gorlovka by the Ukrainian troops, at the railway station in Kiev. In the eyes of the beautiful and once happy woman today there is deep pain, sadness and emptiness. On a page of her notebook she wrote a letter to Marina Poroshenko, and, sitting in the waiting room, she descended into painful memories from two weeks ago.

etc
http://slavyangrad.org/2014/08/26/a-mothers-letter-who-gave-the-order-to-kill-my-children/

Posted by: brian | Aug 26 2014 22:20 utc | 119

@114
'The Russian government, angered at NATO’s eastward expansion and at political developments in Ukraine, annexed Crimea and armed pro-Russian separatists. '

yes russia has done neither..the guy Wittner (ex prof of history SUNY) has taken the neocon bait and swallowed it whole

Posted by: brian | Aug 26 2014 22:23 utc | 120

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Aug 26, 2014 1:11:43 PM | 108


Cold and Hole in the head is working the boards overtime..hope Langly pays good overtime! wonder what the rates are like?

Posted by: brian | Aug 26 2014 22:25 utc | 121

@Merlin2 "Are the Dutch less emotional than the Chinese?"

Maybe we could get General Westmoreland to pontificate:

The Dutchman doesn't put the same high price on life as we do. Life is plentiful. Life is cheap in the Holland.

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 26 2014 23:32 utc | 122

Posted by: Merlin2 | Aug 26, 2014 2:19:02 AM | 81

Great questions! Is it a cultural thing that unlike the Chinese the Dutch will just accept what authority tells them, even if it smells like rancid b.s.?

Posted by: fairleft | Aug 26 2014 23:56 utc | 123

I don't know about b's thesis, but his judgement has often proved correct.

Thing is, my impression are that the Germans are in this up to their eyeballs, and "won't make a huge conflict" over Ukraine joining the Eurasian Customs Union... well how many dead civilians makes a "huge conflict"? Like, more than the thousands killed so far?

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 27 2014 0:12 utc | 124

Of course Holefield's comment about truth condemns and nullifies his own comment.

Posted by: truthbetold | Aug 27 2014 0:23 utc | 125

The Dutch Have Gone Mad [More Mad].

PM Rutte and FM Timmermans followed the narrative set by Obama and his advisers (Susan Rice, John Kerry, Chuck Hagel) to put 100% blame on the separatists and Putin's Russia for delivery of the Buk missile system. Their favoribility ratings have jumped higher and got compliments from Australia's Abbott and FM Bishop. The verdict has been sealed so the Dutch have accepted the European sanctions on Russia and Putin's reprisal to block agricultural products from the West. The Dutch are a large exporter of agricultural produce and only 2% is effected by the sanctions. Just a few dozen Dutch companies will go bankrupt with loss of jobs and livelyhood.

FM Frans Timmermans lauded for statement at United Nations on downing of Malaysia flight MH17

Posted by: Oui | Aug 27 2014 1:13 utc | 126

And a load of neocons were flown into The Netherlands to explain why NATO needs to re-enforce itself, the European nations need to invest in military equipment and a more aggressive policy vs Russia is warranted.

Dutch News Uses Anne [Neocon] Applebaum as Putin Expert

Posted by: Oui | Aug 27 2014 1:14 utc | 127

Demian at #115 - I'm going to have to stand up for the Saker on this one. His commenters were asking about the story, as it was breaking, in earlier threads - he had the decency to put it to an analysis to assuage people's concerns, and he was speaking to them/us and to the early unconfirmed reports rather than world opinion or a tribunal. He concludes for us essentially the same as Col Cassad, just gives us a wiggle tour around some other possibilities getting there.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 27 2014 1:55 utc | 128

About propaganda. I would make the case that many of the weapons of the enemy have been blunted during this Ukraine campaign, not the least of which is the reputation - and myths - of the USA.

I really like this (unsigned) piece at Novorossia News Agency:
The humanitarian convoy. Saying Goodbye to illusions about the Western humanism.

The Western diplomacy tries to persuade the world community that Russia is to blame for all what’s happening. Well, let it be so. But where are the UN humanitarian missions then? Where is Europe and the USA’s aid? Where are processions of trucks sent by the government of Ukraine to its own citizens? There is nothing of it in sight. The civilized world makes a demonstration of turning a blind eye to people’s suffering. Nobody lifts a finger to help them. Moreover, the humanitarian aid delivery is announced an aggressive invasion. What can cross out more clearly all the principles that seemed to be a base of the whole modern civilization? Either these principles were never important and were always false or the civilization itself has turned into its absolute antipode for the last decades.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 27 2014 2:03 utc | 129

@Oui:

Obviously attempting to plug a growing hole in the dike: Ukraine, Corrupted Journalism and the Atlanticist Faith: Wolferen from the Netherlands.

Warning: Not for those allergic to intellectualism and ambiguity. Author might not be trustworthy since the Yinon plan and Israel are not mentioned.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 27 2014 2:06 utc | 130

@127 malooga.. thanks for the link to that very good article! please continue on and ignore the distractions of moa. i for one really appreciate your willingness to share.

a couple of choice quotes

"Hence, Dutch publications, along with many others in Europe, cannot bring themselves to place the Ukraine crisis in proper perspective by acknowledging that Washington started it all, and that Washington rather than Putin has the key to its solution. It would impel a renunciation of Atlanticism."

"But Washington has constantly had the winning hand in a propaganda war against, entirely contrary to what mainstream media would have us believe, an essentially unwilling opponent. Waves of propaganda come from Washington and are made to fit assumptions of a Putin, driven and assisted by a nationalism heightened by the loss of the Soviet empire, who is trying to expand the Russian Federation up to the borders of that defunct empire...."

"Historical ignorance abetted by Atlanticism is poignantly on display in the contention that the ultimate proof in the case against Vladimir Putin is his invasion of Crimea. Again, political reality here was created by America’s mainstream media."

and etc...

Posted by: james | Aug 27 2014 2:35 utc | 131

@Grieved #125:

Fair enough. I don't usually read comments over at the Saker. I forgot to keep in mind that, unlike Colonel Cassad, he writes for a Western audience.

The Novorossian press conference I mentioned before now has subtitles:

Watershed press conference by top Novorussian officials

As the Saker says, this is a must see.

There was also a talk by another Novorossian leader today (no subs). The speaker notes what I had observed myself from videos, that a lot of the volunteers are under thirty now. Here's a Google translation of a quote:

"The flow of volunteers into the militia has quadrupled. Number of people wanting to join the army of Donbass gives you the opportunity to continue the offensive. Lately volunteers strongly" rejuvenated ": earlier in the militia were those over 40, but now the average age of those wishing to get into the army DNR from 18 to 30 years. So we are not going to rest on the successes that have been achieved during the last few days during the counter-offensive. We know that more people's republics will be declared: People's Republic of Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhya, Dnipropetrovsk, Odesa, Kherson, Mykolaiv People's Republic of because the people of Ukraine, too, want to have the people's power, and not this junta, which now drives the slaughter of people. During the last few days we have achieved considerable success in the combat zone in the south-east of Ukraine. at the weekend we had a massive counter-attack on the forces of Ukrainian army, and today our militia took control of a strategically important point and a symbol - the mound Saur-Grave."

And here's something that the Voice of Sevastopol did not include in its quote:

Today we have a de facto fascist government. where people have total mendacity in the mass media, with a junta at the head of power, and people walk arund with a flag crying "Glory to the heroes!" And a parliamentary form of government has been liquidated. So it is a real fascist state, and such states have been destroyed before, and this will also be the fate of Ukraine. Let's recognize that, de facto, Ukraine will cease to exist, as a country, as a project, it has turned out to be a project of bankruptcy. It has completely lost any purpose for existing.

Russian leaders are not going to say this openly, but this is now the Russian position.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 27 2014 2:41 utc | 132

Warning: Not for those allergic to intellectualism and ambiguity. Author might not be trustworthy since the Yinon plan and Israel are not mentioned.

Now you are really showing your caliber. A total arse.

Posted by: DM | Aug 27 2014 3:23 utc | 133

"Merkel said that if Ukraine opted to rejoin the Eurasian Union with Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia, then Europe would not make "a huge conflict" out of it."


Yeah I would say this is a complete 180 degree reversal,and a signal to the US to eat shit and die, and a step in the right direction. Although, one wonders why 10's of thousands (so far)of people had to die just to go back to the December 2013 default position. One would hope Obama Kerry H. Clinton and many others would be put on trial in the Hague..if this fiction of "international law" actually existed, they would be

Posted by: Marc | Aug 27 2014 3:27 utc | 134

@129 demian. thanks for sharing the video.. fascinating, especially the quick discussion on the death penalty at the end of it..

Posted by: james | Aug 27 2014 3:35 utc | 135

@ BRIAN @ 119

If cold is who/what Langley has "on it" ,I'm suddenly more hopeful about the struggle . I don't know what they pay him but I hope its a shit load

Posted by: Marc | Aug 27 2014 3:42 utc | 136

he is too stupid to work for langley... on the other hand, maybe they are desperate..

Posted by: james | Aug 27 2014 3:49 utc | 137

@ Demian @ 114

Counterpunch has become establishment trash since A. Cockburn died - sort of a creeping libertarianism, combined with more and more of the ISO type agitprop of Binoy Kampmark and other CIA "leftists" of that ilk. Expect them to publish more and more from that other, I-used-to-be-a-Trot-now-I-work-for-Israel - asshole of a guy..fortunately my memory fails me and I cant think of his name.........oh yes.Loooooey Proyechhhht

Posted by: Marc | Aug 27 2014 3:49 utc | 138

@Marc #135:

Yeah, I think you're right. It's pretty sad.

I must say that I am appalled by how little coverage Counterpunch has of the Ukeranian civil war. It's almost as bad as the mainstream Anglo media in that respect. Pretty much the only person whose articles get posted there who sees Russia as a pole of resistance to the Empire is Mike Whitney (who tends, by the way, to hysteria when it comes to threats to Russia).

I suppose that Counterpunch becoming stupid should be viewed as part of the degeneration of the Left in general. I noted before that the New Left Review actually published an interview with a pro-junta Ukrainian "sociologist".

Posted by: Demian | Aug 27 2014 4:05 utc | 139

Russian Spring

08/26/2014-23:48

Comment:

Liquidation of surrounded contingents of Kiev junta is on the way. The war geography is changing every hour. The lost of settlement Starobeshevo becomes a verdict of hopelessness for a large group of Ukrainian troops stuck in the Amvrosiyevka caldron.

With high probability the caldron is going to be dissected in two along the Amvrosiyevka-Kuteynikovo route – both settlemens are in hands of combatants.

Estimates from military specialists allot a week for an armored group before it loses battle worthiness due to lack of ammunition and fuel.

Taking over city Volnovakha and establishing control over M20 route would allow the combatants secure another big caldron, Elenovka caldron, around Starobeshevo group of the opponent.

The secure control (?) over city Novoazovsk has been established. Attack on city Mariupol continues.

Russian Spring

08/26/2014-22:48

Comment:

In the course of fierce fighting, the troops of the army of Novorossia have gained control over settlement Starobeshevo and mount Saur-Mogila (the Azov Sea shore line is observed).

In area of settlement Kuteynikovo, about hundred punitive troops have surrendered.


Russian Spring

Aleksandr Zakharchenko. Address to commanders and military personal of the Ukrainian Army surrounded on territory of Donetsk People Republic. City Donetsk, 08/25/2014

Officers and soldiers! Since August 24, the forces of Donetsk People Republic (DNR) switched to large scale offensive on all directions. Units of DNR have fully encircled groups of Ukrainian troops in areas of settlements Olenovka (Elenovka), Starobeshevo, … Stepanovka, Amvrosiyevka, Stepano-Krinka.

The surrounded troops consist of the headquarters of 8th army corps, 28th, 30th, 93rd mechanized brigades, …. There is no perspective to breach the encirclement. Your situation is hopeless, and further resistance does not make any sense. You fight against your own people. Excersising criminal orders in the fratricidal war will award you neither glory nor money.

The resistance amounts to death. It has happened before in Izvarino caldron, when most of officers and soldiers refused to lay down arms senselessly fell. In this hopeless for you situation, to prevent unfair bloodshed, you are offered the following conditions: 1. All surrounded Ukrainian troops cease the resistance. 2. Turn to our disposition the personal arms, military hardware and equipment.

We guarantee those officers and soldiers quitted resistance saving their lives and security. The wounded will be given medical service. The military men voluntary quitted resistance, with the commitment of not participating in battles against Donetsk and Lugansk Republics, will be handed to representatives of Ukrainian Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers or mothers (or close relatives) and may return home.

Those decided not participate in the civil war must leave positions and, with a white flag or piece of white fabric in hands, arrive to a disposition of military forces of Donetsk People Republic...


Commander in Chief of Donetsk People Republic military forces A. Zakharchenko


Posted by: Fete | Aug 27 2014 4:59 utc | 140

@demien 129:

The Saker is not a fan of Evgeny Fedorov, but everything is following the scenario he laid out in his talk in May to a "T." Very interesting. RF, despite so much criticism, has played its cards perfectly and now holds a perfect hand. The waiting and appeasement game with the EU, along with back room negotiating and the perfect sanctions at the perfect time, is bringing Europe right around, like a shamed recalcitrant puppy.

Putin/Lavrov continues the track of endless statesmanship, while Novorussia marches on, with complete deniablity. People's movements are already in place where needed, and will magically arise at precisely the right moment. Porky must know this -- so is he playing a double game. Anyway, the question arises, as I asked last night, will they go all the way, or only to the Dneiper.

@DM:
Read the article and comment on it if you have anything constructive to say. It is 4000 words. Jsore has said many times that so many words are unnecessary, and he won't read that much. Don't get bent out of shape by a public service announcement. I think it is a good article, and symbolizes the deep changes taking place beneath the surface among the European intelligentsia. My job is to supply relevant information, not to entertain you.

@135,6:

Even before Cockburn passed, they refused to discuss 9-11, 7-7, etc. in any intelligent manner. Cockburn, for an ostensible commie leftist, always had some very heterodox views, even in the old days when I used to read him in the Village Voice in the 70's. I think he ended up more of a heterodox Libertarian, than a leftist. He was a born contrarian, and would instinctivley argue the opposite of what those around him were saying. The few times I met him, I found him to be both humble and fascinating, truly surprised that anyone would want to engage with him. Nevertheless, he possessed enormous knowledge and was a great stylist -- a loss, indeed. His brother, of course, has an even more problematic relationship with empire. St. Clair is more of a tree-hugger environmentalist, than anything else.

Counterpunch has always been very uneven: some very good writers, and tons of crap and chaff, and horrible editing. For that matter, all of these places -- like Lew Rockwell on the right, too -- that offer this format of 12 articles/day, whether the articles or the news cycle merits it, suffer from having to include too much filler. If you read enough of this shit for enough years, you can often predict the entire article before you've read it. Then you avoid the website as a waste of time and miss the one or two articles a week that are essential reading.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 27 2014 7:38 utc | 141

@120 Guest77 @121 Fairleft

Guest 77 I loved your juxtaposition of general Westmorland's description of the Vietnamese (orientals, as he called) them and the Dutch. Clever, and the intent is true. Poor Dutch - the most independent-minded and so brave once. What on earth has happened to them (cf their government)? what has neoliberalism done to all these good people? Holland, Denmark, and now Sweden. have you people seen the way the Swedish police let their horses trample people who were merely demonstrating? doies that even sound or look like Sweden?

Fairleft - so, what happened to the European left? how did they become such zombies? is that what a little material comfort does to people? turn them into zombies?

Reminds me of the song: "where have all the flowers gone?". Where indeed are those tulips?

And here we were, thinking the Chinese were somehow "passive". Those MH370 relatives sure didn't look passive to me.

We should however watch the unfolding of the cover-up. Stuff is happening in the background. It all ties together with whatever is happening in the Donbass. Russia clearly has some cards and it might, just might, put them in play, unless.....

What price will Russia exact for its silence on the MH17?

And what exactly happened to MH370 anyways? gone poof?

Posted by: Merlin2 | Aug 27 2014 8:02 utc | 142

malooga writes: Even before Cockburn passed, they refused to discuss 9-11, 7-7, etc. in any intelligent manner. Wrong. Cockburn encouraged Manuel Garcia to write a very comprehensive article on the physics and chemistry of the collapse of the word trade towers. For any rational observer this put to rest most of the absurd fantasies about what caused the towers to collapse. That also put to rest 95% of the conspiracy theories that were based on a faulty understanding of the underlying science. Cockburn wisely did not let Counterpunch to become distracted with utter nonsense.

Posted by: ToivoS | Aug 27 2014 9:03 utc | 143

ToivoS:

I repeat, and the evidence you put forth (which I am familiar with) proves my contention: they refused to discuss these events in any intelligent manner. Garcia's work is laughable compared to the work done by professionals in the movement. As with the Popular Mechanics "de-bunking," most of Garcia's arguments reduce to straw men. He covered only the most limited of the 9-11 phenomena. DRG's "Debunking 9-11 Debunking covers these arguments in depth. That is only one of his approx. 10 books on the subject.

I am firmly in the David Ray Griffin, Architects/Pilots for 9-11 Truth, Journal of 9-11 Research, Kevin Ryan camp here. (There are many others, but I'm trying to keep it simple.)
Simply put, the official conspiracy theory we are asked to believe is both is absurd and impossible.

I can only infer that you have not taken the time to become sufficiently familiar with those sources.

All the sources I have mentioned above have work which is easily accessible. While most of the physical research was completed years ago, new, and extremely compelling, information continues to come to light about the networks who organized and profited from the event. Ryan's latest work concerning the circumstantial evidence within the US military and the Cheney/Rumsfeld gang of private contractors is most interesting. There is a four hour interview with Bonnie Faulkner.

I'm tempted to ask you about some of the absurdities we are asked to believe, but, in the interest of the poor readers of this blog, I will forgo the exercise.

While it is irrelevant to what I am saying here, I will state that my own relationship with those buildings was deep, long and intimate.

This topic has come up here many times before. I believe b is also in the OCT camp.
So, let's just agree to disagree as friends on this, and move on.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 27 2014 9:52 utc | 144

Jackass nato leader plan to build more bases against Russia in europe @ Reported by RT

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 27 2014 10:55 utc | 145

I came across this bit of propaganda from Reuters.

I did so miss Baghdad Bob: "There are no separatist tanks in SE Ukraine!"

Posted by: shargash | Aug 27 2014 17:28 utc | 146

@143

That "article" has a section titled crater. That "article" is a crater, it has more claims and retractions of those claims. The only thing semi accurate in the "article" is the punctuation. Baghdad Bob has a cohort...Kiev Kevin.

Posted by: really | Aug 27 2014 18:02 utc | 147

The tide is turning for the rebels ??? This sheds new lilght on the talks between Poroshenko & Putin. Is Poroshenko trying to buy time ? Is he hoping the US will send him more & advanced weapons in the mean time ?
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Resistance-Turning-Tide-in-by-Michael-Collins-Donetsk_Draft_Economy_Lugansk-140826-922.html
The article seems to confirm what "b" has reported in this thread about a weakening ukrainian economy.

Interesting blog (from Sevastopol). Is it reliable ??
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/70555.html
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/#post-cassad_eng-72577
(Talks in Minsk are underway)

A blog from Slavyansk:
http://slavyangrad.org

"The Southern front catastrophe" (???)
http://slavyangrad.org/2014/08/27/the-southern-front-catastrophe-august-27-2014/
The map suggests that there're even ukrainian troops surrounded.

For the time being, one should take the news with a grain of salt. I wasn't expecting this to occur. Although Ray McGovern tols Scott Horton that the ukrainian army forces were weakened by years of neglect & corruption.

(Did my previous post got caught up in the spam filter ?)

Posted by: Willy2 | Aug 27 2014 18:20 utc | 148

More stories about 'lost' Russian troops crossing into Ukraine. Or are they just another Western fantasy?

Posted by: Bill Smith | Aug 27 2014 18:21 utc | 149

@ Mlooga @ 141

"Even before Cockburn passed, they refused to discuss 9-11, 7-7, etc. in any intelligent manner. Cockburn, for an ostensible commie leftist, always had some very heterodox views, even in the old days when I used to read him in the Village Voice in the 70's. I think he ended up more of a heterodox Libertarian, than a leftist. He was a born contrarian, and would instinctivley argue the opposite of what those around him were saying. The few times I met him, I found him to be both humble and fascinating, truly surprised that anyone would want to engage with him. Nevertheless, he possessed enormous knowledge and was a great stylist -- a loss, indeed. His brother, of course, has an even more problematic relationship with empire. St. Clair is more of a tree-hugger environmentalist, than anything else."

Yes, very astute, I agree with you on those summaries. I always liked Cockburn because I have always shared that character defect of his of reflexively arguing against whatever the group is saying, but I started as a libertarian and have wound up a "Commie leftist".

Posted by: Marc | Aug 27 2014 18:37 utc | 150

Anglosphere media are now reporting that the rebels are gaining territory. The following is at the top of my Google News.

Rebels seize key coastal town as they open new front near Russia

Haha, even the Telegraph calls them rebels, instead of insurgents, now.

The advance puts the separatists just 25 miles from Mariupol, a key port town where Sergei Taruta, the pro-Kiev governor of Donetsk region, has been based since rebels took over Donetsk itself.

If they can take Mariupol, the separatists would be poised to strike along the coast creating a corridor to link up with Crimea, the province Russia annexed from Ukraine in March – a nightmare scenario for Kiev that had until recently seemed impossible.

Of course, the Telegraph has to not entirely abandon propaganda mode, by noting that "Russian forces" might be engaging in the conflict. That ignores the obvious point that if Russian forces were engaged in the conflict, Kiev would not be occupied by fascists now.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 27 2014 20:43 utc | 151

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