Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 30, 2014

The WaPo Funny Pages Fear "Secular Extremists"

The Washington Post editorial page reads like a collection of funnies. Sorry ones though.

There you have the wife of the Polish foreign minister preparing for total war with Russia. Yeah, lets roll out the nukes already! The winner of course, with Europe then devastated, would be the U.S. economy. Those radiating bits left of it.

But the idea might be better than asking the Russian oligarchs to assassinate Putin like a former CIA honcho does. Or better than the idea of an air bombing campaign against Novorossiya right next to the Russia's border and its excellent air-defenses.

There really are a lot of crazy people around. Surely the editors of the Washington Post are part of them. Yesterday they wrote this crazy nonsense:

IF ANY international norm can still be called uncontroversial, it is the stricture against cross-border aggression by one sovereign state against another. Certainly any failure to enforce it in one place invites violations elsewhere.

Fair points out that the "uncontroversial norm" the editor want to apply seemed not to be so uncontroversial when those same editors called for the invasion of Iraq and for the bombing of Syria, Libya, Sudan or whatever other state wins their weekly lottery for threatened destruction.

But the best of the recent funnies was surely this one by David Ignatius which certainly will earn him a decent pile of petro-dollars:

For a generation, Americans and Saudis have worried that the kingdom was a potential tinderbox, with Muslim and secular extremists vying to undermine the conservative monarchy.

"Secular extremists" - now there is a real terrorist threat! The biggest threat EVER! What Americans then have ever "worried" about "secular extremists" overthrowing the Wahhabi nutters in Riyadh? Others then the ones paid by them?

Posted by b on August 30, 2014 at 7:58 UTC | Permalink

Comments

IF ANY international norm can still be called uncontroversial, it is the stricture against cross-border aggression by one sovereign state against another. Certainly any failure to enforce it in one place invites violations elsewhere.

ROTFLMAO!! The Neo-Con Post strikes again...

Posted by: Seamus Padraig | Aug 30 2014 8:33 utc | 1

Seemed like a lot of people at the Dresden protest. I wonder how public opinion is running, and if there is a significant difference in the old East.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 30 2014 8:55 utc | 2

Always funny (but also dangerous) reading applecum's whining and the hypocrisy of western journalists.
- Hey journalist, your "side" lost!
Get it?.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2014 9:07 utc | 3

3

This is a crucial, perhaps existential election year for the Two Party System in USA.

If 100,000 brown skins have to die for POTUS to look like The Man, the Pentagon will
lock-and-load tomorrow (of course, they are already are, and already have, and are
already deployed in the Mediterranean and Baltic Seas.) If 40,000,000 brown skins are
to be given carte blanche to run amok within USA, and another 1,000,000 Hindoos flown
in on special 787 H-1B high-tech-all-the-way direct flights from Mumbai, then so be it.

If both Parties have to cravenly genuflect to Empress Yellen to please, please print
some more New Gold Centurions (the newest $100 is printed in gold lamé, with a blue
ribbon for the 'Blue Team', dividing the bill 1/3:2/3 for the Habs and the Habs-Nots),
why Fed mills will grind America's future to bone dust night and day, week after week.

We exist because we, most of us, don't have to think about where we're going to sleep
tonight, or whether we'll have food to eat, or what's rattling around in that crazy
office skullf*ck we all joke through our every day with. It's only at election time,
or husband-and-wife-on-children violence, or H8-spew in public arenas, that we see,
wow, most people are really f*cked up, some of them have their fingers on buttons
they shouldn't be within a mile of. And those are just the ones we see in public.

Everyone is all jacked up on the QEn bubble bursting before the elections, as it must;
and WW3 crashing down upon EU and RU when winter hits, as it must; and BRIC going to a
'basket-of-currencies' even though BRIC is bankrupt, China's complete credit collapse;
and the realization that as soon as the Fed jacks up interest rates, Americans will be
paying a private bank cartel $500B/year in interest-only 'debt' repayment ... FOREVER.

The cop in Ferguson was a microcosm of America as the macrocosm, and some poor brown
skin people are going to be shot down like heathens, just for walking down the street,
then some pompous twit will stand at the podium and crank the old red-white-and-blue,
as the Great Conestoga Wagon of America goes over the cliff. Yippe-o-kayey, cowboy.

I think I finally understand the phenomenon of glue-sniffing....

Posted by: ChipNikh | Aug 30 2014 9:49 utc | 4

It seems to be a right wing invention to try to separate religious from extremist in peoples minds

There is no doubt that America's Founders believed in freedom of religion, NOT freedom from religion. Those who decry any use of public property that involves religion — such as the display of a creche at Christmas time — ignore facts that reflect the Founders' intention, such as the fact that the podium of the Speaker of the House of Representatives was used as a pulpit for religious services held in the Capitol long after the First Amendment was adopted and both Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, the men to whom secular extremists point to support their extreme version of church-state separation each left the White House to attend such religious services...

and so on.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 30 2014 10:19 utc | 5

@4 ChipNikh

The 'Great Conestoga Wagon over the cliff' analogy is quite appropriate...made me chuck even though the sh!t going down is not a laughing matter.

Posted by: really | Aug 30 2014 11:38 utc | 6

A consequence and contributor to the militarization of US foreign policy is a vast pro-war establishment outside the government. Often funded by government contractors, a horde of advocacy groups, think tanks, and academics exists to explain why the answer to most foreign policy challenges is a large military — or actual military action. These are warmongers, in the most literal sense of war + trader. One who seeks to start wars.

Warmongers are not, by tradition, warriors.
Our warmongers are paid to involve America in foreign wars. b brought forth some fine examples. These articles show the modern art of warmongering at its highest level.

Act now, think later.

Anne Applebaum is a warmonger

Posted by: Fast Freddy | Aug 30 2014 12:26 utc | 7

Critical election year in the US? Maybe, maybe not. Since the introduction of electronic voting machines, who knows about the outcomes.

Posted by: ben | Aug 30 2014 14:01 utc | 8

"Secular extremists" must be all those militant atheists descending on Washington in Christianist Republican imaginations...

Posted by: JohnH | Aug 30 2014 14:33 utc | 9

Apologists and sycophants for the Empire are everywhere. Hard to do or say the right thing, when your livelihood depends on back stopping every decision made by your benefactors.

Posted by: ben | Aug 30 2014 14:43 utc | 10

There you have the wife of the Polish foreign minister preparing for total war with Russia. Yeah, lets roll out the nukes already! The winner of course, with Europe then devastated, would be the U.S. economy. Those radiating bits left of it.

There isn't going to be any nuclear war. Poland should realize NATO won't get its back when Putin destabilizes it from the inside out. Remember, since Ukraine is constructive, Putin is engaging in modern warfare not explained by Clausewitz in the war colleges in The West. Invasion takes many forms, but with Putin it starts with the poison pill of ethnic Russians in the diaspora.

Why do bad guys like Putin never commit suicide? I bring this up because a wonderful human being who brought laughter and joy to the hearts and souls of so many over the years, Robin Williams, did commit suicide. He is an example of a good guy — not because of his politics but because of his effect on humanity.

Bad guys don't commit suicide because they're greedy and selfish for power and status. Sadists live for their sadism. As Quintus Arrius told Ben-Hur, "your eyes are full of hate, forty-one. That's good. Hate keeps a man alive. It gives him strength."

Putin is obviously a bad guy and is therefore not suicidal. He would not contemplate initiating nuclear war because nuclear war is suicidal.

And of course, The West is not suicidal either despite you conspiracy nutters nonsensically claiming the phantom bygone Neocons want a nuclear war because they believe they can survive and win one.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Aug 30 2014 15:08 utc | 11

@6 fast freddy.. ditto.. as i watch hilary approach the podium..

Posted by: james | Aug 30 2014 16:42 utc | 12

SO the EU is about to declare war(sanctions) on Russia because.....???? Poroshenko????

Are these guys really that stupid?????

Posted by: Zico | Aug 30 2014 17:18 utc | 13

Good piece over at the vineyard...

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/08/russian-invasion-how-long-is-screaming.html?m=1

Posted by: really | Aug 30 2014 17:52 utc | 14

Some examples of "secular extremism": Driving while female in Saudi Arabia; driving while black in the U.S. of A.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Aug 30 2014 18:10 utc | 15

http://rt.com/news/183864-ukraine-european-volunteers-fighting/

Posted by: jo6pac | Aug 30 2014 19:32 utc | 16

That was then:

Obama to Putin at their official meet in June 2013.

A constructive cooperative relationship that moves us out of a cold war mindset .. By working together we increase security and prosperity for the Russian and American ppl but also help to lead the world to a better place ..

(all trans > English.) 11 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieWPPhJV3e0

(Putin understands English and speaks basic, informal English. Which gives him time to gather a response, watch reactions etc.)

They must both be secular extremists, or were, or what not. :)

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 30 2014 20:12 utc | 17

I'm not laughing because those 'crazy' writers and editors actually represent our ruling class in the Western Democratic Empire.

If this gets hotter I would start planning emigration to anywhere far, likely in the Southern Hemisphere, to escape the consequences of the western rulers 'craziness'. For some reason the US block, having not been really attacked in almost two centuries and full of hubris feel no threat or fear, and the European block foolishly think that, like their suicidal anti-European policies have no effect on their chances of getting re-elected, any action they take will have no negative effect on them.

Posted by: ThePaper | Aug 30 2014 20:27 utc | 18

Same neocon scums that made this possible:
https://twitter.com/Taher_Ah/status/505781810849001472

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2014 20:31 utc | 19

ThePaper @ 17.

"...US...not been really attacked in almost two centuries...."

Why do you exclude the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor?

In your opinion, what was the last attack on the US?

Posted by: george | Aug 30 2014 20:38 utc | 20

"But the idea might be better than asking the Russian oligarchs to assassinate Putin like a former CIA honcho does."

What a JACKASS!! In a direct conflict between Pres. Putin and "Russian Playboy millionaires", who "fear losing their landing rights" (in Las Vegas or Miami I suppose), I gotta put my money goon Putin. This CIA moron is probably putting some oligarch asses in jeopardy by writing such a bizarrely juvenile, violent and hostile screed. Not that I care. I'm sure the world could well do with 40 or 50 less "playboy millionaires" anyhow.

Posted by: Marc | Aug 30 2014 20:52 utc | 21

@ George @ 19

Yes the Aleutian islands were also attacked by the Japanese in WW2. So were the Phillipine's. But in a war with Russia, New York and Washington would be targets and everywhere else as well. Not that it would matter. Such a war would likely mean the end of the species globally. There would be no escaping the destruction because, as the latest peer reviewed climate studies show, a medium scale nuclear conflict would mean at least 3 or 4 years without a growing season -planet wide, and that alone, even if there were no other consequences would spell the end.

Posted by: Marc | Aug 30 2014 20:57 utc | 22

in comment 20 "goon" is meant to be ironic, for those who don't know my vigorously and frequently stated opinions on the subject. I guess I should have put scare quotes around it.

Posted by: Marc | Aug 30 2014 21:11 utc | 23

I don't know if Applebaum or Judy Miller are Zionists, but the former seems to be the WaPo equivalent of the latter's shit-funnel.

Posted by: Ben Franklin | Aug 30 2014 21:31 utc | 24

Well,obviously,the US considered the attack on 9-11 on our homeland,so that threshold has been crossed,though obviously not to any degree what with Europe and Iraq,Afghanistan and Palestine have been through.And the US civil war had a few episodes of total war(for the time)so it's not that far in our past.
If "On the Beach" is correct,the southern hemisphere will not be spared fallout,so start building the bunkers,or kiss your ass goodbye in the event.
Applebaum,with that name,could be a Jewish Zionist(she married Sikorski?who I don't believe is Jewish),but Miller definitely is,she spent or spends her time in exile in Israel.
And this goon stuff about Putin,I don't get it at all,to me,he's a paragon of virtue,especially compared to the west's abject and miserable losers.

Posted by: dahoit | Aug 30 2014 22:25 utc | 25

This CIA moron is probably putting some oligarch asses in jeopardy

Another one knocks me off my seat with laughter. Some people get their kicks on Route 66. Me, I get them from MOA due to comments like this.

Those poor benighted oligarchs. We wouldn't want to put their tender, fragile asses in jeopardy now, would we?

Too much — it really is. Sometimes I laugh so hard my stomach cramps up.

And you were right with your Freudian slip the first time — Putin is a goon, as you say. He's many other things as well but goon will do perfectly fine for this occasion.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Aug 30 2014 23:01 utc | 26

@25- here's a good one from vineyard saker:

'This way to combine the morally right and tactically ingenious is one of the key characteristics of Putin's method: he wins, but never by doing the ugly thing, instead he wins by doing the right thing. Brilliant!

Posted by: Nana2007 | Aug 30 2014 23:38 utc | 27

@26

Sometimes I think that site is just one hell of a clever ruse. That is satire whether intended or not. If it is intended, the author(s) of that site, if it's a one man operation or a team, has/have some of the most subtle, almost undetectable technique I've ever run across.

Thanks for that Jim Dandy of a quote. We need more levity like that in these trying times.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Aug 30 2014 23:50 utc | 28

http://slavyangrad.org/ published “Journalist from Urals….few weeks spent in the DNR….”. This is the best report on the Ukraine Civil War that I’ve read. The tale of his encounters with the Cossacks is very convincing.

Basically this is a Civil War being fought for political, ethnic and religious reasons spurred on by war mongers and supported by outside nuclear powers for the benefit of western war profiteers and to preserve Russia’s national security. It provides a great impetus to write blog posts like this. Lurking in the background is the fear that suddenly I will be vaporized along with the other inhabitants living around Join Base Andrew when someone due to the mindless dangers of war pushes the nuclear missile launch button that targets Maryland.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Aug 31 2014 0:13 utc | 29

"Sometimes I think that site is just one hell of a clever ruse." re Saker

for god's sake man, this is the innertubes--truth at trillions of electrons per minute.

Posted by: Jay M | Aug 31 2014 0:32 utc | 30

So now Cold A. Hole is twisting, short, out of context statements to get in his jollies and pad out his resume of lies?

Come on Craw Hole, you're phony ideology is the oligarchs last best chance and I'm sure (I hope?) you've been paid well, you really ought to show them more affection.

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 31 2014 0:44 utc | 31

@30 was about @25

As for @27 It's quite true what the Saker has said.

If such things are relative, one only has to compare Putin's comparably bloodless moves securing his country's interests to the wholesale murder and chaos - at the cost of millions of lives - of that cowboy George W Bush and its shameful continuation under his successor, "The Counterfeit President" Barack Obama.

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 31 2014 0:52 utc | 32

A paperback copy of "The Catcher In The Rye" was the traditional prop the CIAYAY planted on its scapegoats.

They have a clever sense of humor. Holden Caulfield being foisted on MOA here.

Posted by: Fast Freddy | Aug 31 2014 0:55 utc | 33

Cold N. Holefield 27: Why frequent a forum that you disapprove of it's users so strongly? I tried reading your blog numerous times but none of it makes any sense. Make sure there's nothing hiding under the bed.

Posted by: Andy | Aug 31 2014 1:06 utc | 34

@28 Thanks for that piece by Nicholas Mokrousov. War gives psychopaths an excuse to indulge in their psychopathology.

Posted by: ess emm | Aug 31 2014 4:17 utc | 35

@VietnamVet #28:

Thanks for that. I think that kind of reporting shows thatt Russia does have a free press, even though a Spiegel journalist who recently interviewed Marine le Pen told her as if it's a fact "There is no freedom of the press".

As for the story you linked to, here is the most revealing part, IMO:

the war occurring in Ukraine has long ceased to be a geopolitical ‘clash’ and was in fact is a real full-blown civil war – for both sides of the conflict. The idea of independence, the desire to create their own Novorossia free from Ukrainian defects, or the desire to join the Russian Federation had been replaced with the banal thirst for blood, the need for revenge. I looked into the eyes of these people, and felt uncomfortable with the scale of the tragedy that the propagandists had brought upon this formerly peaceful land, upon each house, each family.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 31 2014 4:25 utc | 36

Here's a video of the DPR army dealing with captured Ukes. It's in Russian, but it may be of general interest, since I think it gives an idea of what is going on in the former Ukraine.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 31 2014 4:44 utc | 37

Demian@36 Thanks for that. My Russian is so poor, I only heard a few words I recognized. The picture painted was pretty plain, though. The worst thing I saw was the Ukies being made to jump. Pretty rough on a fat boy, but most of those guys looked like they could handle it.

Posted by: Jim T | Aug 31 2014 5:07 utc | 38

19

The Japanese 'attack' on Pearl Harbor was an 'encounter', one that both sides were fully aware was going to happen, and therefore, was more like Noh theater than a true 'attack', deliberately provoked by US sanctions against Japan.

The last attack on America was, of course, 1913, with the coronation of a foreign banking cartel, deliberately rebranded as 'The Fed', to take over monetary control of the US, just as the Age of Industrialization was being fueled by the Age of Oil and Gas. Now that same private bank cartel marketing as 'QEn', has indentured Americans for seven generations out, well, no, actually FOREVER ,with $10s TRILLIONS in interest-only private bankster gambling debt links-of-chain forged onto the public taxpayers' shackles, without so much as a kiss.

Before that, of course, was the War of 1812, when the British burnt WADC to the ground, although America declared war first, so they were 'asking for it' by being belligerents.

Then really, the one and only time the US has been successfully attacked, and overthrown, with not a single shot fired, was in 1913, when it gave over the power of Shekinah to The Chosen, a private foreign banking elite descended the banking accountants to the Habsburgs, that bled America to the bone, who can demand perpetual 'odious-and-therefore-illegal debt' repayments forever, $100sBs every year if they wish to risk the economy, and who also can crash that economy, in only nanoseconds, at a mere whim, and just for shorts and giggles.

Yet these well-Fed creatures walk the streets, unmolested, in plain view, even in daylight!

So what does an 'attack' really mean? If a tree falls in the forest, does anyone hear it?


Posted by: ChipNikh | Aug 31 2014 7:16 utc | 39

It's genetic!
The Jerusalem Post - Home genetics kits could identify millions with Jewish roots.JPPI president says genetic tests tests could foster an "expanded circle of individuals" who feel an affinity for Jews and Israel.


http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Home-genetics-kits-could-identify-millions-with-Jewish-roots-372835

Posted by: Franz Boaz | Aug 31 2014 7:26 utc | 40

Look at the kind of GARBAGE they are publishing at "Global Research" now

http://www.globalresearch.ca/eye-witness-report-from-the-war-theater-in-donesk-peoples-republic-eastern-ukraine/5398589

Jeezis. Its reposted from ZNAC dot com which I wont link because its a scumbag pro US pro Israel piece of shit funded by Russo-Israeli oligarchs with the usual scummy finance-capitalist oligarch axes to grind. Now Global research always has its share of weirdo pieces but I thought Chossudovsky was editing there and he has been reasonably reliable vis a vis the finance capitalist directed, US-NATO led drive to armegeddon over Russia...WTF!! I guess its pull out all the stops its ww3 time.

Posted by: Marc | Aug 31 2014 7:48 utc | 41

@Marc #40:

That's the same article VietnamVet brought up at #28. It is true that both the author and the Web site in which this article was originally published in Russian come across as belonging to the Russian liberal fifth column (how can anyone write "Who is right and who is wrong – remains unclear" about the Ukrainian civil war???), but this doesn't come across as a hit piece on the Novorossian military. Civil war is vicious.

slavyangrad.org, which is pro-Novorossian, first published the translation, I believe. So I think you're overreacting.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 31 2014 8:14 utc | 42

China's more or less official position:

Ukraine at risk of being West’s pawn
August 31, 2014

... Russia may have the strongest determination to refuse compromise. The EU may be the least determined to confront Russia. The US suffers the least in the Ukraine crisis. If it is not entangled in other troubles, the US will be more than active in challenging Russia.

The conflicting parties are expecting China to take a clear stance in this crisis. However, China has no deciding role in this conflict. ...

The EU, Ukraine and Russia are becoming tired of the conflicts. But Washington is not worried much, as the drawn-out crisis will only exhaust the parties on the east and west sides of Ukraine.

No matter how much Ukraine resents Russia, they are still neighbors. Ukraine has to be cautious not to become a chess piece for the West to edge out Russian influence. Also, Russia should avoid making Ukraine its permanent enemy.

Posted by: fairleft | Aug 31 2014 8:33 utc | 43

So now Cold A. Hole is twisting, short, out of context statements to get in his jollies and pad out his resume of lies?

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 30, 2014 8:44:25 PM | 30

Any why not? After all sh*tbags like gimp77 do that ALL the time, so why shouldn't other

If it ok for sh*tbags like gimp77 to do it, then whynot for coldn?

Posted by: blowMe | Aug 31 2014 9:22 utc | 44

Sounds like the end of NATO - Der Spiegel

Brief translation: Poland, the Baltic States and Canada want to terminate the NATO-Russian founding act on mutual relations - against Germany's will.

This here is the act

NATO and Russia do not consider each other as adversaries. They share the goal of overcoming the vestiges of earlier confrontation and competition and of strengthening mutual trust and cooperation. The present Act reaffirms the determination of NATO and Russia to give concrete substance to their shared commitment to build a stable, peaceful and undivided Europe, whole and free, to the benefit of all its peoples. Making this commitment at the highest political level marks the beginning of a fundamentally new relationship between NATO and Russia. They intend to develop, on the basis of common interest, reciprocity and transparency a strong, stable and enduring partnership.
This Act defines the goals and mechanism of consultation, cooperation, joint decision-making and joint action that will constitute the core of the mutual relations between NATO and Russia.

Note that the US position is not mentioned.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2014 9:32 utc | 45

Across all media repeats ISIS claim they shot 250 Syrian Soldiers from Taqba Airbase, but the heroic men who were shot may in fact have been the tribes men of Deir Zour who rebelled against ISIS a view months ago. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/16/islamic-state-syria-executions_n_5684506.html ISIS made them take of their clothes, to conceal the fact they are not wearing military uniforms. Those who had clothing still on were not wearing military uniforms. The images of the execution was geolocated to Deir Zour 100km from Taqba. https://twitter.com/Nutsflipped_z_1/status/505264777082331136/photo/1 A clever ISIS pys-op

Posted by: brian | Aug 31 2014 9:33 utc | 46

@somebody #44:

NATO and Russia do not consider each other as adversaries.

Especially in hindsight, that sounds pretty self-contradictory. If NATO and Russia are not adversaries, why was NATO not simply broken up, instead of just producing this "act" consisting of mumbo-jumbo?

Posted by: Demian | Aug 31 2014 10:24 utc | 47

Just great, just read that the jackass obama will come to eastern europe next week to show "support".

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 31 2014 10:39 utc | 48

nsnbc: US/UK attempt to create a European Gas War may be sidelined by Russian European Consensus

[EU Energy Commisioner] Oettinger said that the EU Commission, in return for Ukraine’s willingness to resume its payments to Russia, would hold meetings with Ukrainian officials over the course of the coming week. The meetings would aim at finding feasible solutions to the problem how the Ukrainian Naftongaz can pay its debt to the Russian Gazprom. …

A growing continental European consensus that includes Germany, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Italy, Austria, Switzerland and increasingly France is according to many analysts the best possible option to prevent a Russian – European war in which the U.S. and UK play the role of the Tertius Gaudens, the laughing third.

I really hope the Scots do the decent thing and vote for independence. That would be an appropriate punishment for the English continually betraying Europe by supporting American plots to keep it weak, because the Brits are genetically programmed to think like imperialists.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 31 2014 11:16 utc | 49

Posted by: Demian | Aug 31, 2014 6:24:47 AM | 46

I think the plan was/is to integrate Russia into NATO so to break the (senseless, costly) cold war confrontation between Warsaw Pact and NATO. Everybody in Europe wanted a "peace dividend".
Fact is the act exists. Fact is US strategy states - last I heard, before Obama confessed that there is no strategy - a US-Russia "reset" and a pivot to China.

So there you are.

Nobody foresaw that the US would have to agree with Russia on strategy for this to work.

I don't think the proposal is serious but part of the attempt to give the "Kyiv government" any negotiation chips at all. Everybody now tries to play good cop bad cop.

Fact is - Europe sanctions itself and Ukraine kills itself. Russia is mildly threatened by military, political blowback.

By the way, last I heard from Obama was "containment" of Russia "not a new cold war". Containment obviously is futile as long as BRICs keep neutral, Russian allied and as long as there is an effective Iran, Iraq government/Kurdistan (that is the latest defeat), Syria, Hezbollah, Russian axis in the Middle East.

And as long as US allies scream to join the fight against ISIS.

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia -- The king of Saudi Arabia has warned that extremists could attack Europe and the U.S. if there is not a strong international response to terrorism after Islamist extremists seized a wide territory across Iraq and Syria.

:-))

Oh yes, there is also this

WASHINGTON – Following Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz al-Saud’s bombshell warning that the next target of the Islamic State, or ISIS, will be Europe first and America a month after that, one Middle East source is suggesting the Saudis may have paid ISIS extortion money not to attack the kingdom.

The source, who asked to remain anonymous but is close to officials in the governments of Lebanon, Syria and Iraq, said that the Saudis years ago did the same thing when Prince al-Turki, then Saudi Arabia’s intelligence chief, traveled to Afghanistan to meet with al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden.

In that meeting, Turki reportedly paid millions of dollars to bin Laden to refrain from attacking the Saudi kingdom, even though bin Laden had turned against the Saudi monarchy for hosting U.S. forces on Muslim soil to fight against then Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

Obama simply needs Russia and Syria now.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2014 11:20 utc | 50

Demian

Unfortunately there is not much that points toward a independent Scotland, too much resistance to that in the UK.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 31 2014 13:14 utc | 51

@50

Well polling is close on the Referendum. It's merely symbolic anyway. Look at how our democratic republic has developed. Control from Westminster will still be extant whether they know it or not.

Posted by: Ben Franklin | Aug 31 2014 13:20 utc | 52

@42

More of China's perspective -- which is peace-oriented, independent, and good common sense -- here.

Posted by: fairleft | Aug 31 2014 14:01 utc | 53

fairleft @42: Thanks for the link, the article makes good sense.

Posted by: ben | Aug 31 2014 14:20 utc | 54

Re. the slavyangrad article, http://tinyurl.com/m73wdr2 - other:

This blog is by British ‘journalists’ - I don’t recommend it, but they are there in the Donbass (actually I think they popped off to Kiev now, whatever).

It is a genre of war tourism (not war porn - no guesome images etc.) Extremely peculiar. Of course they are outsiders, not like the Russian chap who participates..but still…Brits! ;)

http://www.thefrontierukraine.blogspot.ca

Also this, in Russian, one part run thru google trans. below. Another Russian who went to help the separatists, with arms deliveries. Many v. good pictures (of arms mostly, nothing gory.) The theme here, as far as I can make out, maybe some Russian can inform better, is that this ‘war’ is run by various shady figures behind the scenes, that huge amounts of money are changing hands (not just ordinary bribes, tip-offs, or taking your 10%, or low-level war profiteering which will take place) and both sides are being used as cannon fodder. (Ukr. soldiers have complained loudly in this direction.)

Other actors -massive looters - are also busy. It reminded me of something I read a while ago, statements made by (I have forgotten his name, a Communist in some under-post in the Kiev Gvmt, Dpt. of Economy, ex by now) who said that the map of Ukraine would be set, it would be carved up, following oligarchic fights and deals. All the rest is window dressing and manipulation(s). YES.

http://tinyurl.com/k27msgb

(click on *back* at the bottom to read the first part.)

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 31 2014 15:49 utc | 55

@54 noirette

It seems that Zionist scumbag Kolomoisky is sacrificing some of his minions as part of some side deal.

Zam. the battalion commander "Azov": Kolomoisky offers Mariupol
http://rusvesna.su/news/1409477018


Last night from Mariupol removed all the soldiers of the battalion Dnepr-1, which many experts call a "private army Kolomoisky",

Motives delivery Kolomoisky Mariupol is still unknown, but one can assume that the Dnipropetrovsk Governor, the environment which maintains close relations with the leaders of the terrorists, just got a deal with them.

At the present time to protect Mariupol remained battalions "Azov" and "Shakhtersk and a small number of internal troops. The promised artillery defenders of Mariupol has not waited. ( trans: The artillery promised to the defenders has not arrived)

For the sake of truth I contacted the chiefs of battalions "Shakhtersk" and "Azov", which confirmed the information about the withdrawal of fighters from Mariupol. Now all Ukrainian society is witness to betrayal oligarch Kolomoisky his people and attempt to (deal with?) Putin. Death to the occupiers and their accomplices oligarchs!"


Meanwhile Kolomoisky is on an unrestrained campaign of looting both the Ukraine and weaker oligarchs with impunity. The head of Ukraine’s anti-corruption committee calls “Kolomoisky evil for Ukraine” and "blames Kolomoiskiy for everything”
http://www.epravda.com.ua/publications/2014/08/25/484449/

Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 31 2014 16:10 utc | 56

#56

Kolomoisky deserves the blood eagle treatment for the Odessa Trades Building atrocity alone. And that was a while back.

Posted by: JerseyJeffersonian | Aug 31 2014 18:58 utc | 57

War always draws in scumbags, carpet baggers and guns for hire; like flies to carrion. The unprepared, the young and the old die first.

If mankind was rational, if the western governments were still democracies, the Ukraine Civil War would be settled now splitting off the East. If not, at best, the European economy which is already depressed in its periphery will crash. At worse, regular NATO and Russian troops and air forces will intervene which will instantly escalate into a nuclear confrontation.

Just like 1914, the survivors will ask why did they do that? Why did they keep escalating? Didn’t they know how many human beings they would kill?

Posted by: VietnamVet | Aug 31 2014 19:14 utc | 58

@58 VietnamVet

Of course my original response to your post went to the spam filter maybe b will dig it out. But here is a link to reinforce your post. Btw, thanks for your service.

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/massacre.html

Posted by: really | Aug 31 2014 19:55 utc | 59

@pantaraxia #56:

Colonel Cassad: Emergent statehood

After the well-known permutations in the DPR it became clear that it the plan of splitting Ukraine and creating the Greater Transnistria is the one that will be implemented. That is, Ukraine won't be dismantled (no matter how much I would want it), but it will be divided (in some or other borders). After the fighting of the second half of August it became obvious that Novorossia as a state will exist on the political map as yet another unrecognized state entity (obviously, the USA and the EU won't recognize it). The borders of this state will be determined by movements of the front line and by negotiations between Moscow and Kiev, as well as in the process of consultations of the Kremlin with Washington and Brussels. At some point, Novorossia representatives will have to be allowed to join the negotiations, although it is clear that they won't define the basic parameters of splitting Ukraine. …

Under the current conditions of "seasonal discounts in the military surplus store" the position of Novorossia for future negotiations about the status of the new state is much better - the junta troops are demoralized, a number of major military defeats clearly indicates that a military victory is impossible for the junta. The forthcoming large-scale offensive with decisive goals that is being prepared by the army of Novorossia is most likely to be an indicator of Novorossia moving beyond the limits of the DPR and the LPR, there are certain prerequisites for this. At the same time, apparently the sides already agreed, or are in the process of agreeing on a decision to eliminate Kolomoisky altogether. The dump of punitive batallions under Ilovaysk, the flight … of the punitive battalion "Dnepr-1" from Mariupol to Dnepropetrovsk, a long informational feud between Poroshenko Kolomoisky may well be a part of the already achieved agreements about the imminent disappearance of Kolomoisky and his accomplices from the political stage.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 31 2014 20:33 utc | 60

@pantaraxia #56:

Colonel Cassad: Emergent statehood (spam filter blocks link)

After the well-known permutations in the DPR it became clear that the plan of splitting Ukraine and creating the Greater Transnistria is the one that will be implemented. That is, Ukraine won't be dismantled (no matter how much I would want it), but it will be divided (in some or other borders). After the fighting of the second half of August it became obvious that Novorossia as a state will exist on the political map as yet another unrecognized state entity (obviously, the USA and the EU won't recognize it). The borders of this state will be determined by movements of the front line and by negotiations between Moscow and Kiev, as well as in the process of consultations of the Kremlin with Washington and Brussels. At some point, Novorossia representatives will have to be allowed to join the negotiations, although it is clear that they won't define the basic parameters of splitting Ukraine. …

Under the current conditions of "seasonal discounts in the military surplus store" the position of Novorossia for future negotiations about the status of the new state is much better - the junta troops are demoralized, a number of major military defeats clearly indicates that a military victory is impossible for the junta. The forthcoming large-scale offensive with decisive goals that is being prepared by the army of Novorossia is most likely to be an indicator of Novorossia moving beyond the limits of the DPR and the LPR, there are certain prerequisites for this. At the same time, apparently the sides already agreed, or are in the process of agreeing on a decision to eliminate Kolomoisky altogether. The dump of punitive batallions under Ilovaysk, the flight … of the punitive battalion "Dnepr-1" from Mariupol to Dnepropetrovsk, a long informational feud between Poroshenko Kolomoisky may well be a part of the already achieved agreements about the imminent disappearance of Kolomoisky and his accomplices from the political stage.

Colonel Cassad goes on to make the obvious point that the main impediment to dividing Ukraine is going to be the US.

I wonder how long it is going to take the Western press to inform the Western public of this development.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 31 2014 20:40 utc | 61

@Noirette #55:

From that Brit blog you give a link to:

As we were waiting we spotted a very young looking soldier, we asked for an interview and it turned out that he was only 15. His father trained the battalion recruits and his mother was fighting at the front, so he had been encouraged to join up. He had gone straight from school to the recruitment centre and despite his professionalism, seemed out of his depth in this world of fighting men. He claimed to only be involved in training the troops, but this would not matter when the Ukrainians arrived, they would kill him just because he was holding a gun.

Those dumb Brits. They are in the warzone, and yet they go by what Anglophone propaganda is claiming instead of what they see with their own eyes.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 31 2014 21:02 utc | 62

@33 Like Mark Chapman?

Posted by: Snake Arbusto | Aug 31 2014 21:08 utc | 63

How stupid are the junta? Just read the rebels caught many dozens junta soldiers once again.
At the same time I feel sorry for the soldiers being sent there by the PORNOshenko junta to kill their brothers and sisters.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 31 2014 21:15 utc | 64

@60 Demian

Putting the squeeze on Kolomoisky, without first eliminating his power base (seizing his assets - impossible since most of his assets are owned via offshore entities) or physically putting him in the ground, could easily take this whole mess in another direction.

Kolomoisky has been expanding his fiefdom (Odessa massacre resulted in the appointment of one of his cronies as governor of Odessa) and recreating his identity as a Ukrainian nationalist.


Ukraine Turf Wars, Kolomoisky vs. Poroshenko
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/14/ukraine-turf-wars-kolomoisky-vs-poroshenko.html

Kolomoisky finds ways to control the Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa and Kharkov regions. At the moment his influence is getting spread around the regions of Donetsk, Zaporozhye, and Nikolaev. He puts forward the idea of dividing the Donetsk region by making separate the Priazov region with Mariupol as its capital… His ambitions go as far as to become the provincial governor of the whole south-east of Ukraine with its two thirds of national GDP. It’ll make President Poroshenko a ‘lame duck” with no leverage to rule the country.


Ukraine's Oligarchs Are Still Calling the Shots
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/08/14/ukraines_oligarchs_are_still_calling_the_shots_0

Kolomoisky's rise since the revolution has been nothing short of spectacular…Kolomoisky seized the opportunity to forge a new identity for himself as an ardent defender of Ukrainian sovereignty. His robustly nationalist stance has now transformed him into one of the country's most popular politicians --

snip

In his latest incarnation, Kolomoisky has used his wealth and influence to rebrand himself as a populist firebrand. With Ukraine at war in the east, Kolomoisky has vowed to rein in separatism… This has helped raise Kolomoisky's standing in the eyes of the Ukrainian public and in turn he has positioned himself to be an influential power broker in the "new" Ukraine.

snip

The wild card remains Kolomoisky, … -- though it's rumored he's planning to create a nationalist movement drawing on veterans from the fight against the rebels. Kolomoisky is certainly poised to capitalize on the current weakness of the central government. Many Ukrainians are eagerly casting about for a strong leader, and for some it's Kolomoisky who fits the bill. Poroshenko might be tempted to strip Kolomoisky of his position as governor, but it's already too late for that.


Being an ardent Zionist, he has strong support within the neocon circle in the US. The appointment of V.P. Biden’s son to Kolomoisky controlled Burisma indicates tacit approval and support at the highest levels.

Does Poroshenko have the power to eliminate Kolomoisky - personally I doubt it.

It would be prudent to expect some counter-measures from Kolomoisky. The possibility of another false flag or even an attempted coup d’etat (via his private army) are not out of question.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 31 2014 23:50 utc | 65

@pantaraxia #64:

Akhmetov's plot to bring Donetsk back into the Ukraine failed when Strelkov retreated from Slavansk. At the time, Colonel Cassad observed that one of the reasons for Strelkov leaving Slavansk when he did was Akhmetov. Cassad also hints that he has insider information about what is happening in the Novorossian governments. I have no idea of how it is planned to arrange for "the imminent disappearance of Kolomoisky and his accomplices from the political stage".

You may well be right that it will not be easy. I have to admit that I have little interest in following the machinations of Ukrainian oligarchs myself. To go into "Putin is behind everything mode", at the very beginning of the crisis, Putin noted that Ukrainian oligarchs are a problem.

Posted by: Demian | Sep 1 2014 1:13 utc | 66

@64 pantaraxia. thanks for those links and @65 demian - for the overview as you understand it..

it would be hard for the oligarchs not to be a problem in ukraine as they seem to have undue influence with the people in deep need of leadership that is not only their to exploit them.. i think it is much the same here in the west, but the reality isn't laid so bare and stark as it is in ukraine as i understand it..putin is right to note that ukraine oligarchs are a problem and will continue to be one.

Posted by: james | Sep 1 2014 4:54 utc | 67

Banning Russian-made AK-47s sets off a U.S. buying frenzy

For gun dealers, the threat of increased regulations is frequently seen as a form of economic stimulus. Some display and sell posters declaring Obama the gun salesman of the year — or century. …

“The Russian originals are considered to be the best of the best,” he said. “You can use the analogy of wine. When you think of wine, what comes to mind? What comes to mind is French wines. It’s the same situation. It’s the best because it’s the original one. Whether it’s true or not doesn’t matter.”

Maybe Obama is going to turn Americans into Russophiles!

Posted by: Demian | Sep 1 2014 5:46 utc | 68

Looks like Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity have realized that writing open letters to Obama is futile:

Germany’s Merkel Needs To Ask Tough Questions at NATO Summit

Obama, however, has only tenuous control over the policymakers in his administration – who, sadly, lack much sense of history, know little of war, and substitute anti-Russian invective for a policy. …

Largely because of the growing prominence of, and apparent reliance on, intelligence we believe to be spurious, we think the possibility of hostilities escalating beyond the borders of Ukraine has increased significantly over the past several days. More important, we believe that this likelihood can be avoided, depending on the degree of judicious skepticism you and other European leaders bring to the NATO summit next week.

These former US intelligence officers are basically saying that European leaders need to take care, because the US policy making apparatus has become unhinged.

Do they really believe that Merkel doesn't know who downed MH17? And if she knows, what difference can this letter make?

Posted by: Demian | Sep 1 2014 6:56 utc | 69

Oh well

France is asking the world to stop the chaos in Libya. Again.


Posted by: somebody | Sep 1 2014 7:56 utc | 70

@67

' Maybe Obama is going to turn Americans into Russophiles! '

He's made a Russophile of this American!

Posted by: john francis lee | Sep 1 2014 9:05 utc | 71

The comments to this entry are closed.