Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 11, 2014

Open Thread 2014-17

Some meta issues:

If your comment does not appear it is usually hanging in the automatic spam filter over which I have NO influence. I manually check the spam queue at least once a day and release non-spam comments falsly caught in there. It does not help when you repeatedly try to publish the same comment over and over again filling up the spam queue. It just makes it more laborious for me to clean up the queue.

Some commentators are blocked from this blog and I will continue to aggressively block those who fall in one of these categories:

  • One issue folks: Everything happening in this world must be the result of the deft work of the Zionists, the British royals, the freemasons, the Jews, Islam, the Pope or who/whatever your favorite personal demon is. Sorry, the world is not that simple. If that fact is beyond your mental capacity go elsewhere. Such simpleminded themes do not help to gain knowledge but detract from the discussion of the issues at hand.
  • People who use (too many) four letter words and lack general manners.
  • Those who constantly attack other commentators or the proprietor of this blog. If you have a difference in opinion use arguments, not foul speech.
  • People who only comment to promote another blog.
  • Folks who use many many one-liner-comments thereby disrupting the flow instead of collecting their thoughts and writing one comment that fits the purpose.

Solely depending on my mood and personal judgement I may ban folks for other reasons. It is my time and money that keeps this blog up and the blocking privilege is part of the gratification. Deal with it.

---

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on August 11, 2014 at 19:02 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Washington's blog's take on why the US et al are pro-intervention now is that ISIS is threatening US/Western oil production and this is why they needed to step in but does this narrative really make sense?

I mean, besides the nonsense that the US et al created/funded/trained ISIS and then just "lost track" of them somewhere along the line, does it make sense that a newly hatched "jihadist" group would decide to go after sites - i.e., the oil fields - that would basically GUARANTEE that the West would intervene in an attempt that they will MAYBE make some extra scratch by selling the oil MAYBE to some mysterious buyers?

Call me crazy but if I'm really a jihadist who's watched the US drone/smoke countless of my comrades - and innocents - over the last decade or so etc etc, a plan that consists of marching single file across the desert straight to the US/West treasure chests/oil fields in an attempt to set up my own oil-based mom-and-pop start-up seems like a STUPID FREAKING idea as I would figure the half-life of said plan - and my life - would be measured in weeks.

What, ISIS is so smart strategically/financially blah blah blah but they still have freaking death wish?

Does not compute.

Hmmmm, unless that is, I was a "jihadist" that was told that I wouldn't get droned/smoked while on my mission until it was apparent that the US had been goaded to intervene and then it would be time to pull the old Tora Bora routine and - voila! - disappear into the night only to resurface when needed again, huh?

Rather, it makes more sense that SOMEONE - and I am including the US Deep State - needed the US/West to finish the job they started in 2003 and the surest way they could do it was to send ISIS around to help create a narrative that even the average troglodyte in the US could understand vis a vis intervention:

Troglodyte: Why is my gas so high?

TPTB: ISIS, the evil terrorists that are living next door to you right now.

Troglodyte: Kill THEM!!!!USA!USA!

Thus the question:

Which entities would want to draw the US into the fray again? Cui bono?

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 12 2014 19:44 utc | 101

Posted by: JSorrentine

Funny how the "evil West" wears an a Thobe, bangs his head five times a day and lives in the Emirates.

Posted by: Northern Observer | Aug 12 2014 19:51 utc | 102

@82: I hope for a Yea
@ lysias: Isn't that LePen thing similar to Farage in UK? Is it right or is it left?
Don't know to much about France, but UKIP has a Friends of Israel-committee and that's simply a no-go for me. I don't want to get banned for rude language commenting on Chirac and Schroeder, but not joining the "coalition of the willing" brought them freedom fries
and "this is old Europe". I'm glad I'm not a new-europe Pole or traumatized and MSM-mislead
Balt.
Oh, and I just see the Catcher in the Lie is back! Oligarchs and greed - I reaaaly don't miss it. If a certain Russian in a swiss chalet passed his spoon I'd have a party!

Posted by: slirs | Aug 12 2014 19:54 utc | 103

Bevan @94: I fully agree with the old saying that fascism is socialism for the unintelligent (or something like that). The real basis of fascism is that government is controlled by business. So, for example, if your country has a large military-industrial complex your government, via secret police or outright military might, supports business aims both in foreign and domestic arenas. So, if for example you own a big fruit company and the elected President of some Central American country decides to, say, give unused land, you overthrow that guy. Or if someone is talking about nationalizing the oil industry in his country.

There is usually some shred of democracy so that the hoi polloi think that they've got a say in things. And displays of flags and patriotic songs usually are enough to keep the populace in place.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Aug 12 2014 20:31 utc | 104

One last note - and I am attempting to be more polite/incisive b/c I do appreciate the blog, b - regarding ISIS and this may seem trivial but remember the story about supposedly how some Indonesian firm was selling ISIS gear - i.e., T-shirts, dolls, etc - and how freaking nutty that sounded and how the story just came and went?

Well, now having witnessed the Color-Revolution-esque roll-out of ISIS and the accompanying narrative for a while I believe that story was a deflection meant to draw attention away from another obvious NONSENSICAL point regarding the entire ISIS phenomenon:

Who prints/makes all of those professional flags, banners, placards and other ISIS swag that we see the actual ISIS "jihadists" waving around in nearly every photograph we have of them?

I mean, if people weren't sharting in their pants about ISIS they might have wondered...hey, wait a second, MSM, you've explained all the new gear like weapons and trucks and stuff but where the eff did ISIS get those satiny, brand-new ISIS banners/flags that they wave around all over the place?

The last time I saw such a concentrated and professional-looking banner/flag display was during the - pick any one of them - Color Revolutions where the "protests" would start and the very next day or even that same night someone wold have designed a logo and copied it - oh, I don't know - about a thousand times onto flags/banners/t-shirts and then handed them out to everyone for the photo ops.

But see, JSore, they were printing ISIS stuff in Indonesia so there's no need to worry your pretty little head about that stuff, huh?

Yup, totally sounds legit to me.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 12 2014 20:59 utc | 105

Because Iraq has no electricity, no computers, no facilities capable to printing flags and banners while-you-wait because they're just a bunch of illiterate guys dressed in bedsheets living in caves ... got it.... and none of those "swag" outlets existed before Isis came along, oh wait, they did, because no wannabes would be tempted to buy Jihadi collectables, videos, audiotapes, posters, prolly bumperstickers and coffee cups ... oh, obviously CIA or Israel...

Jihadi gear is hot in Turkey these days -- from today -- http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/562359/20140812/isis-iraq-turkey.htm#.U-qDQmMSSDs

The store, Islami Giyim, is popular among the adventurous type of youths, especially those leaning towards the Islamist insurgency. The Islami Giyim's Facebook page is already being followed by 6,400 fans.

"I am responding to a market demand. This is Islamic clothing. What else can I say?" the store owner, who refused to give his name, told Joseph Dana of the Slate.

The stores had been selling the ISIS clothing for months now with the owner saying that business was good and that he has plans of opening branches across different locations in Istanbul.

The most in demand item from the store is the black T-shirt with the slogan "There is no God but Allah" written in white letters. The slogan is widely seen on ISIS flags and banners.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Aug 12 2014 21:17 utc | 106

@94 bevin.. too bad us canucks don't have other political party options as they do in europe..

kurdistan oil going thru israel port article from june 20th here. looks like it got held up at the usa depot here ..i am not sure if it is the same ship, or one of many... business looks to be booming.. i wonder where the $'s get pocketed?

Posted by: james | Aug 12 2014 21:29 utc | 107

I'd add that I am rather surprised that these outlet operate in these reportedly vastly repressive countries ... but while these internet outlets keep being taken down off, new ones keep appearing. I guess these folks are living in less fear that I'd imagined.
The surprise with the color revolutions "production values" faded a long time ago, although I think asking exactly who paid for a thousand or 3 thousand t-shirts, signs and banners remains ... just like who pays the rent, the telephone bills and whatever stipend or salary to keep an office open and manned.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Aug 12 2014 21:33 utc | 108

@107

James I get an Error message at your first link

Posted by: crone | Aug 12 2014 21:38 utc | 109

@109 crone.. trying again here ... article is from june 20th in the jerusalem post..

Posted by: james | Aug 12 2014 22:02 utc | 110

here is the same story from iraq gov'ts viewpoint...in some ways this is a more informative article..

Posted by: james | Aug 12 2014 22:08 utc | 111

at least we know how hezbollah sees ISIS..

Posted by: james | Aug 12 2014 22:11 utc | 112

@110 try without the backslash.

Posted by: dh | Aug 12 2014 22:12 utc | 113

guest77@91

I recall reading somewhere recently that Greece is a major supplier. Or was until it was banned by the EU, part of the governing troika (as they call it in Ukraine) from continuing its trade.

There is no doubt that these sanctions can have no other effects, except in the very short term, than to inconvenience the oligarchs. The US ruling class can only see those oligarchs when it looks at Russia-it long ago discounted the people as ' dark people' untermenschen whose desires are irrelevant- and it expects to motivate the oligarchy to overthrow Putin.

More likely is the outcome that emergency economic measures will have to be introduced and the logical return to collective control over vital national resources made.

Once again the idiocy of these moves, which have the appearance of having been tailored to drive the SCO, BRICS and Iran into a tighter union and to undermine the dollar system, astonishes me.
But that is the problem with atheism- I do not recognise divine providence when it is working benignly.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 12 2014 22:13 utc | 114

@110 dh.. without the back slash here..

Posted by: james | Aug 12 2014 22:14 utc | 115

"The real basis of fascism is that government is controlled by business."
Bob In Portland: agreed. The point I was trying to make was that since neo-liberalism is just that, in fact a variant of fascist corporatism (TM Benito Mussolini) the traditional fascist parties get little traction there. (You don't need Mussolini when Tony Blair will close down the Unions for you.)

So they gravitate naturally towards populist messages. Which I regard as an unalloyed benefit, anything that draws the political debate back towards bread and butter and away from Thatcherism, can only be beneficial.

It seems to me that Marine Le Pen, about whom I have no illusions, is in this respect doing what her old dad could not do, and by doing so is fair set to outflank both the former Gaullists and the former "Socialists".

Politics in Europe seem very volatile- new leftist formations in Spain for example nobody could be ashamed of voting for, in Italy, less attractive but equally radical changes from the comedian's lot, and in Ireland Sinn Fein is now one of the major parties ( to make no mention of leftist independents0 and likely to eradicate the Labour Party in the next round of elections.

The Wheel is spinning quickly now...

Posted by: bevin | Aug 12 2014 22:26 utc | 116

Hitler's National Socialism, once in power, did at first treat very favorably business owners and management (as long as they weren't Jewish or politically unreliable). It was part of his strategy of coopting the traditional elites and the right. But, over time, he allowed them to keep their money, but he took away most of their power. Visconti's The Damned [La caduta degli dei] is a movie about that, by a member of the social elite. Ot, to quote Hitler himself, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" Indeed, Mein Kampf is full of contempt for businessmen, whom he regarded as stupid and selfish.

Posted by: lysias | Aug 12 2014 22:55 utc | 117

@106

Wow, so I guess I was then saying/implying that the various Europeans didn't also have the ability/intelligence to print up their own Color Revolution banners either, right? That they needed the CIA to do it for them as well and have them shipped over?

Or was I trying to say that the whole thing stinks like another Western Zionist roll-out especially as the merchandising emphasized the fact that just EVERYONE was buying up ISIS swag, huh?

Would you like to read a more detailed account of what I'm speaking to that appeared a while back and which I even linked to in a previous MOA thread?

Funny, I seem to have forgotten about that post, huh?

It's almost like at post #105, I had an unconscious sense/intuition of how you would respond to me in the future and then remembered that post/link, huh? Maybe a clue was how you laid the blame for the Iraq mess at the feet of that complete and utter cipher/puppet Paul Bremer? Or was it your reminding us how the French and Kurds have been friends since WWI and thus we shouldn't look to any more recent developments as to what is going on with the West's arming the Kurds especially as I brought up all that recent WINEP advocacy?

Or maybe it was that you earlier linked to a Vox media site, y'know, the company that was co-founded by the CIA-asset Kos and the other dude from DailyKos? Y'know the site that is THE hub for fake leftism in the US?

What do you think? Why didn't I remember that story that I had previously linked to in my own post last month? Mystery.

Anyways, it's ok, though, if you want to hit me with the "You think Arabs/Muslims are too stupid to do stuff like 9/11 and make T-Shirts" hasbara line that's cool, too. I'm sure you're just trying to get a rise out of me because I explicitly stated only yesterday that that argument makes me mad.

Note: Not one curse word was used in the production of this post, b.

So, besides their mom-and-pop oil business and the rights I'm sure ISIS secured on their logos etc, where is all of their money coming from? Car-washes?

Or is this whole terror campaign just one big Walk-A-Thon?

Hmm, the Walk-A-Thon of Terror...but who are the sponsors?

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 12 2014 22:58 utc | 118

@106

Wow, so I guess I was then saying/implying that the various Europeans didn't also have the ability/intelligence to print up their own Color Revolution banners either, right? That they needed the CIA to do it for them as well and have them shipped over?

Or was I trying to say that the whole thing stinks like another Western Zionist roll-out especially as the merchandising emphasized the fact that just EVERYONE was buying up ISIS swag, huh?

Would you like to read a more detailed account of what I'm speaking to that appeared a while back and which I even linked to in a previous MOA thread?

Funny, I seem to have forgotten about that post, huh?

It's almost like at post #105, I had an unconscious sense/intuition of how you would respond to me in the future and then remembered that post/link, huh? Maybe a clue was how you laid the blame for the Iraq mess at the feet of that complete and utter cipher/puppet Paul Bremer? Or was it your reminding us how the French and Kurds have been friends since WWI and thus we shouldn't look to any more recent developments as to what is going on with the West's arming the Kurds especially as I brought up all that recent WINEP advocacy?

Or maybe it was that you earlier linked to a Vox media site, y'know, the company that was co-founded by the CIA-asset Kos and the other dude from DailyKos?

What do you think? Why didn't I remember that story that I had previously linked to in my own post last month? Mystery.

Anyways, it's ok, though, if you want to hit me with the "You think Arabs/Muslims are too stupid to do stuff like 9/11 and make T-Shirts" hasbara line that's cool, too. I'm sure you're just trying to get a rise out of me because I explicitly stated only yesterday that that argument makes me mad.

Note: Not one curse word was used in the production of this post, b.


Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 12 2014 23:10 utc | 119

If your comment does not appear it is usually hanging in the automatic spam filter over which I have NO influence.

Sorry, that’s my bad. First, I thought that perhaps I had absentmindedly hit the wrong button or something, so I tried again. Then I was mislead by the fact the post seemed to show up for a second and then disappear; I thought perhaps it was a system problem. Then I was mislead by the blog clearly stating “Your post has been published. Post another?” when other blogs clearly state that your post “is awaiting moderation.” Then I thought that my computer had too many open browser tabs (it was at its limit and wouldn’t open another tab without freezing), so I tried another computer.

Finally, I realized that my post, which I had worked on for several hours, had unexpectedly been sent to Ukrainian filtration camp for bad behavior, and got annoyed.

And then, when I should have left well enough alone, the evil scientist got the better of me, trying to work out exactly why it went into the spam filter, and if I could get around it. So I tried different computers, different IP addresses... Then I tried breaking the post into parts -- some of which went through and some of which didn’t -- and NOT in the order I had posted them. Curious. So, then I tried breaking the parts which didn’t go through into parts....

Finally, I was reduced to drinking straight rot-gut and sending the post letter-by-letter, not necessarily in order, like some sort of Dada masterpiece. Then I passed out at the kitchen table only to dream wistfully of the illusion of human communication...

I humbly apologize for the work and vexation I caused you and will not do it again.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 12 2014 23:20 utc | 120

further to my previous posts on the oil from the kirku-ceyhan oil pipeline - here are some recent developments around this..
"On Monday, August 11, Axeon Specialty Products announced that they would no longer accept any shipments of crude oil from the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG).

The tanker Minerva Joy arrived at a New Jersey port with the intention of delivering their cargo to Axeon; however, the tanker has not offloaded any of its contents. A statement on the matter from Axeon said,

“In light of the dispute over the rights to sell crude oil originating from the Kurdish region of Iraq, Axeon will not purchase or accept delivery of any of the affected crude oil until the matter is appropriately resolved.”

The company previously received a shipment of Kurdish crude in June. Two weeks ago, another purchaser of Kurdish oil, Lydonell Basell, also announced they would cease buying Kurdish crude." link to this here.. the "about page" for axeon products is here.. those private investment firms in nyc sure know how to get involved in interesting deals..

Posted by: james | Aug 12 2014 23:25 utc | 121

Right Sector goons riding in a buss bound for Donetsk to massacre fellow citizens don't make it (graphic photos)

Given that they were in an ordinary bus, they must have still been in junta-occupied territory, which suggests that guerrilla warfare on the part of the freedom fighters is picking up.

Posted by: Demian | Aug 12 2014 23:26 utc | 122

Lydonell Basell trades on the NYSE: LYB... LyondellBasell Industries N.V. is a public company incorporated under Dutch law. Our major administrative offices are located in London, the United Kingdom; Rotterdam, the Netherlands; and Houston, Texas.

Posted by: james | Aug 12 2014 23:28 utc | 123

Another 130 US advisors on way to Iraq.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 12 2014 23:31 utc | 124

BTW, don't know if you internationally are keeping up with rioting/looting happening in Saint Louis after the police killed yet another unarmed black kid but the FAA just shut down the airspace that would normally be reserved for news helicopters. Gee, why would they do that?

It really is a freaking madhouse here.

I especially enjoyed this pic from the NYT. Man, I wonder where the US police learned how to subdue an unarmed, low-socioeconomic, minority population with such aplomb? It's like there's someone out there with knowledge and experience with this stuff.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 12 2014 23:55 utc | 125

Brian seems very concerns about ISIS/ISIL & its advances. Perhaps, this time, his usual perspicacious analysis needs some adjustment.

According to Christof Lehmann's sources over at nsnbc International, ISIS/ISIL is US(Nato + Israel + Saudi Arabia)

http://nsnbc.me/2014/06/15/isis-unveiled-identity-insurgency-syria-iraq/

http://nsnbc.me/2014/06/22/u-s-embassy-in-ankara-headquarter-for-isis-war-on-iraq-hariri-insider/

I do not think that we have much to worry about regarding ISIS, but lots to fret over as to how it will be used to continue terrorize the American public into loosing more of its civil liberties, and into the war the elites wanted all along --- get Assad out of Syria, get Iraq back and generally continue to promulgate chaos all around Russia, Europe and to also bring it into China.

When all the world is ablaze, where will all the money go? To fortress USA, where else?

An economic win not through hard work, or legitimate cause, but through subterfuge, malfeasance, and outright macabre means.

Posted by: susetta | Aug 13 2014 0:03 utc | 126

Adding:

A better angle of the same photo I referenced above with the guy facing the police.

Yeah, that's cool.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 13 2014 0:14 utc | 127

JSorrentine@124

You are right. This is the big story. And it has been a long time coming.

I didn't follow the link but I'm presuming that the argument is that the Missouri cops learned vicious treatment of second class citizens from elsewhere.

I hope that I am wrong on that one: southern cops wrote the book on lynching, bullying and disproportionate force and the name of it was Jim Crow.

To return to the meta question, itself.

I am instinctively in agreement with those who are against banning disruptive posters but one has to ask, when thinking of the departed, how many of those who no longer visit or post here, among them some of the wisest and most perceptive, veterans who have been driven away by abuse or the pettiness, which sometimes disfigures these discussions, would still be with us had b been a little less liberal and we a little more supportive of his bouncers?

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2014 0:15 utc | 128

@ 124

you wouldn't be referring to that psychopath who's been bombing all those folks in that Strip on the Mediterranean, would you? Some lab he runs there, huh?

Posted by: crone | Aug 13 2014 0:17 utc | 129

@127

No, there's always been racist cops beating on minorities but with 9/11 and the PATRIOT ACT came the militarization of the police. EVERY police department from cities the size of NYC/LA/Chicago etc on down to every bullcrap little suburb/village/town received massive funds, weaponry and training from - surprise - the apartheid genocidal state of Israel.

This piece is from 3 years ago:

In an article which begins with examples of American police training alongside Israeli security forces, Blumenthal writes, “Having been schooled in Israeli tactics perfected during a 63 year experience of controlling, dispossessing, and occupying an indigenous population, local police forces have adapted them to monitor Muslim and immigrant neighborhoods in US cities. Meanwhile, former Israeli military officers have been hired to spearhead security operations at American airports and suburban shopping malls, leading to a wave of disturbing incidents of racial profiling, intimidation, and FBI interrogations of innocent, unsuspecting people. The New York Police Department’s disclosure that it deployed ‘counter-terror’ measures against Occupy protesters encamped in downtown Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park is just the latest example of the so-called War on Terror creeping into every day life. Revelations like these have raised serious questions about the extent to which Israeli-inspired tactics are being used to suppress the Occupy movement.”

According to Blumenthal, the transformation began after September 11, when American law enforcement officers began to look to the Israelis for counter-terrorism expertise and in response the Israel Lobby “provid[ed] thousands of top cops with all-expenses paid trips to Israel and stateside training sessions with Israeli military and intelligence officials.”

Many of these trips and training sessions were arranged by JINSA, the stridently pro-Israel organization whose advisors have included such prominent Neocons as Douglas Feith and Richard Perle.

The Anti-Defamation League has also provided Israeli-run training senssions to over 700 police officers through its course on Extremist and Terroist Threats and claims to have provided a background in Israeli perspectives to another 45,000 through its Law Enforcement and Society program, which is required training for all new FBI agents.

So, yes, there has always been a vicious and abominable side to US law enforcement but it has taken on an entirely new meaning in the last 10+ years.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 13 2014 0:29 utc | 130

@ # 99 HE'S BACK !! Muted somewhat but insightful (or should that be inciteful??) as ever.

But the one big glaring elephant-in-the-room ?? Tens of thousands of frothing-at-the-mouth TERRORISTS (amazingly proficient in the use of US made & ENGLISH instructioned weapons systems) and yet IsraHELL doesn't ever appear to be on their radar. The common theme since at least 1956 is that ALL Arabs want the Zio-NEST entity pushed into the sea and yet here we have "Arab radicalism" on double dose steroids & no one in MSM or the alternative media are even beginning to discuss why israHELL isn't a target, especially with the Gaza atrocities going on. I suppose young Aussie lads holding up severed heads helps to push Gaza onto the back burner. Can't go waking the sheeple up though can they.

Posted by: kiwicris | Aug 13 2014 0:39 utc | 131

@ 124

Thanks for that pic JSore...

Hey, those police look like Israeli police... well, duh... maybe because they were trained by Israeli military... resulting in what Max Blumenthal calls 'Israelification' ~Report: Israeli model underlies militarization of U.S. police

Posted by: crone | Aug 13 2014 0:39 utc | 132

Adding:

Here's the Max Blumenthal article that is quoted in the above piece:

“Israel is the Harvard of antiterrorism,” said former US Capitol Police Chief Terrance W. Gainer, who now serves as the US Senate Sergeant-at-Arms. Cathy Lanier, the Chief of the Washington DC Metropolitan Police, remarked, “No experience in my life has had more of an impact on doing my job than going to Israel.” “One would say it is the front line,” Barnett Jones, the police chief of Ann Arbor, Michigan, said of Israel. “We’re in a global war.”

Karen Greenberg, the director of Fordham School of Law’s Center on National Security and a leading expert on terror and civil liberties, said the Israeli influence on American law enforcement is so extensive it has bled into street-level police conduct. “After 9/11 we reached out to the Israelis on many fronts and one of those fronts was torture,” Greenberg told me. “The training in Iraq and Afghanistan on torture was Israeli training. There’s been a huge downside to taking our cue from the Israelis and now we’re going to spread that into the fabric of everyday American life? It’s counter-terrorism creep. And it’s exactly what you could have predicted would have happened.”

The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) is at the heart of American-Israeli law enforcement collaboration. JINSA is a Jerusalem and Washington DC-based think tank known for stridently neoconservative policy positions on Israel’s policy towards the Palestinians and its brinkmanship with Iran. The group’s board of directors boasts a Who’s Who of neocon ideologues. Two former JINSA advisors who have also consulted for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Douglas Feith and Richard Perle, went on to serve in the Department of Defense under President George W. Bush, playing influential roles in the push to invade and occupy Iraq.

Besides JINSA, the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has positioned itself as an important liaison between American police forces and the Israeli security-intelligence apparatus. Though the ADL promotes itself as a Jewish civil rights group, it has provoked controversy by publishing a blacklist of organizations supporting Palestinian rights, and for condemning a proposal to construct an Islamic community center in downtown New York, several blocks from Ground Zero, on the basis that some opponents of the project were entitled to “positions that others would characterize as irrational or bigoted.”

Through the ADL’s Advanced Training School course on Extremist and Terrorist Threats, over 700 law enforcement personnel from 220 federal and local agencies including the FBI and CIA have been trained by Israeli police and intelligence commanders. This year, the ADL brought 15 high-level American police officials to Israel for instruction from the country’s security apparatus. According to the ADL, over 115 federal, state and local law enforcement executives have undergone ADL-organized training sessions in Israel since the program began in 2003. “I can honestly say that the training offered by ADL is by far the most useful and current training course I have ever attended,” Deputy Commissioner Thomas Wright of the Philadelphia Police Department commented after completing an ADL program this year. The ADL’s relationship with the Washington DC Police Department is so cozy its members are invited to accompany DC cops on “ride along” patrols.

I know I've been accused of harping too much on Israel but the American relationship with Israel has literally and deleteriously changed the way day to day life is led in this country especially if you happen to be a minority or are outside the mainstream. It's not an exaggeration.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 13 2014 0:40 utc | 133

@131

Sorry - xpost with JSore

Posted by: crone | Aug 13 2014 0:45 utc | 134

@124

Not only have theyy shut down the airspace, the ferguson police have been very heavy handed with the press. Saw on the news that they have been telling the press to take a proverbial hike. Dayum Ferguson PD instituting a curfew on the press. Madhouse may be an understatement.

Posted by: really | Aug 13 2014 0:46 utc | 135

@129, @131 et al

And now better than ever, with drones and mass surveillance...

guess who's still training "our" police?

Posted by: coupdedes | Aug 13 2014 1:03 utc | 136

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/262553/no-media-allowed-in-ferguson-mo/

'NO MEDIA ALLOWED IN FERGUSON, MISSOURI'

move along people...nothing to see here...just busness as usual...

Posted by: really | Aug 13 2014 1:36 utc | 137

Here's a heartwarming photo-montage of American and Canadian traitors and future war criminals. Enjoy.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 13 2014 2:04 utc | 138

Re: ISIS, IS, ICE ICE BABY.

Take note of this amazing concept:

Israel is not threatened, not concerned in the least, by either ISIS or IS. Not shoring up borders. Nothing but more whupass on Gaza. (The Palestinians must vacate so Israel can steal that gas and oil.)

America, OTOH, 6000 miles away from the epicenter, is under red high alert, extreme caution, for ISIS under the bed. Just ask Obama or Lindsey Graham.

Posted by: Fast Freddy | Aug 13 2014 3:03 utc | 139

Posted by: juannie | Aug 11, 2014 6:02:00 PM | 19
you need to speak with someone who knows GSDs. the commands aren't your problem. those are available on-line. you have other concerns that are much more serious than simple obedience. I've had GSDs for 40 years and would be willing to help if possible.

Posted by: john | Aug 13 2014 3:05 utc | 140

Fascism, Imperialism, and Nationalism: Some Thoughts

@bevin #94:

I recollect more than thirty years ago proposing a nationalist and a socialist future as the alternative to Thatcher's neo-liberalism. I was of course immediately denounced as a NAZI, as if Hitler had ever introduced anything resembling socialist policies.

You seem thick-skinned enough to take it, bevin: You have gotten virtually the same treatment here by the more boorish, sadly.

Actually, there were leftwing variants of Nazism -- Goebbels, oddly enough, was initially an adherent to one of the left-wing (social democratic) factions -- (not so odd if one compares his early positions with those of his contemporaneous Western liberal counterparts: Edward Bernays or Walter Lippman in the US). However, all these different tendencies were subsumed into what we now know as Nazism with the inclusion of capitalist elite support as Hitler rose to power.

What was common among all the state propagandists was the acknowledgment that the population must be mobilized around some sort of “mythic narrative structure” in order to be used for ruling class purposes. Fascism uses myths of the “internal other,” and “racial purity,” as we now see in the Ukraine. These myths are used to create a societal destabilization and an emotional hysteria -- kind of a Nationalist fugue -- subverting, suppressing, or putting off real human needs for more immediate engineered Nationalist needs, and so, fascism must continually move forward, shark-like, or risk dying as a mobilizing force.

Fascism as an ideology, as Umberto Eco reminds us, has many aspects or properties, appearing as demonic shapeshifter as required by the situation and material and national emotional/psychological conditions.

The ideology of fascism is useful for limited Imperialist ends: In Germany, this meant the drive for “Lebensraum” -- which was not totally without justification in realpolitik terms as it was the only great power at the time without a fully developed empire (having missed the “Scramble for Africa"), and there were numerous Germanic communities who had settled throughout eastern Europe. (This is not in any way meant to condone the relentless killing and ethnic cleansing of non-Germans during the expansion as moral.) The drive for a “Greater Israel” takes a very similar form and pattern.

In the Ukraine, fascism is being mobilized by the US (and Germany) to break Ukraine away from the Eurasian sphere, to split Europe irrevocably away from Asia and link it to North America -- and so the virulent hatred of Russia and internal cleansing is necessary in order to activate the process of schismogenesis, first theorized by Gregory Bateson. The “mythic narrative structure” has been funded by western NGOs for decades, and its virulent far-right nationalist character is well known. It has been described and its history traced by Per Anders Rudling in his essay, “The Return of the Ukrainian Far Right.”

For a global imperialist drive, the mobilizing “mythic narrative structure” must be, at least on its face, universally inclusive. That point explains US imperialist ideology, which embraces immigration from every nation in the world (in order to form loyal imperialist cadrés for further foreign destabilizations), minority rights, ethnic identity rights, gay rights, artistic rights, etc. The myths revolve around American exceptionalism, democracy, freedom, liberty, a paternalistic inclusiveness, essential goodness of motive and purpose (even if execution occasionally falls somewhat below publicly stated target), and the need to help others enjoy the fruits of our civilization -- r2p, liberal imperialism, etc. Human rights, free speech and “openness” are the empire’s holiest of shibboleths.

Indeed, the mobilizing US imperial ideology so privileges the discourse of human rights, that it even accords the right to corporations; similarly, it so privileges the right of free speech, that it even accords it to dollar bills (among other financial instruments), which corporations and the rich have in superabundance over the poor -- thus creating an implicit hierarchy of power and privilege under the guise of universal and beneficent “rights.” This hierarchical privileging of rights creates a hidden or covert Orwellian situation: “Free Trade” denies poor countries the ability to manufacture necessary drugs and medications for its people, to provide water, power, save seeds, etc. It prevents nations from denying entry to foreign corporations, indemnifies corporations from claims of pollution, and requires nations to recompense corporations for “unrealized profits.” Actual human beings face a similar quandary: their identity rights are protected at the expense of signing away their economic rights. They are as free to starve to death or die of preventable illness, or merely to live a brief brutal existence of quiet desperation, as they are to fondle the genitals of another of the same sex. The western mantra of “Openness" undergoes a similar Orwellian transformation. Under the US-led “Washington Consensus," nations must hierarchically privilege “openness” for corporations over people: Natural wealth and resources are to be “open” to foreign corporate exploitation and profit repatriation, while people must be “open” to the cutting of essential life-support services mandated by IMF austerity packages, like welfare, healthcare and education. It’s all equally good in the postmodern imperialist American empire when Franklin Roosevelt’s essential third freedom, “Freedom from want,” has been surreptitiously replaced with the freedom to stuff frozen chickens up your vagina or nail your nutsack to the ground in the center of a pubic square.

It is no mere accident that the word “liberalism” is employed both for the protection of human rights, and the restriction of economic rights.

Nationalism, as I have hinted in previous posts over the years, is a necessary first step, and only a first step, in the world overcoming the global “Washington Consensus” octopus strangling and killing the planet. The problem, as Aristotle and others first realized, is that all political forms have a dark side as well as a light side. Polybius’ political doctrine of Anacyclosis, or the cyclical theory of political evolution, recognized three basic forms of "benign" government -- monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy -- which he believed to be inherently weak and unstable. These forms, he felt, tend to degenerate rapidly into the three basic forms of "malignant" government -- tyranny, oligarchy, and ochlocracy (mob rule). According to the doctrine, the "benign" governments have the interests of all at heart, whereas "malignant" governments have the interests of a select few at heart. Thus, the problem wasn’t rule by one, the few, or the many, but rather, how to prevent that rule from degenerating away from the greater common good. The trick, therefore, in designing and instituting any more just system, is in devising ways to prevent the degeneration of the political form.

Nationalism, similarly, has a dark and a light side. We are all familiar with the dark side: fascism -- national purity in some guise or form: of ethnicity, language, belief, culture; domination by national oligarchy; jingoism, war mobilization, and national expansion; and over-protectionism, going beyond the basic dictates of Import Substitution Theory until a type of stultification and self-reinforcing groupthink sets in, as in North Korea.

The light side might be theorized thusly: Proper development of a nation’s natural and human resources with the interests of all at heart and without undo closure to the outside world, concomitant with peaceful relations between nations in accordance with international law.

But what should be the mobilizing “mythic narrative structures” of a light nationalism? Or must complex societies dwell in a fugue of ideological and emotional self-justification at all in order to function? What is to induce the national elite to comply and prevent a descent into Oligarchy? Can international law be revived? These are but a few of the questions to be asked, and solutions to be devised around the problem of creating a more sustainable and just nationalism in the future than in the past.

Thus, the trick remains how to devolve from liberal globalism towards a light side Nationalism, and yet defend against the dark forces taking control, while still moving towards a more just and sustainable (and decentralized) world order in the future. If anyone is curious, Sergey Glazyev’s latest position paper, “How Not to Lose the War” has some thoughts and concrete steps on this matter in regard to Russia. But all of that, my friends, is a topic far larger than this post is meant to be.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 13 2014 3:07 utc | 141

hardly read the site anymore, but since you did this post, should weigh in... as a woman I have HATED some of the offensive language against women.
mostly like your commentary, but sometimes it's nothing much, and the comments section is awful. I don't read that part anymore.
thanks,

Posted by: anon | Aug 13 2014 3:24 utc | 142

Re: ISIS, IS, ICE ICE BABY

Take note of this amazing concept Israel is not threatened, not concerned in the least, by either ISIS or IS. Not shoring up borders.

Nothing but more whupass on Gaza. (The Palestinians must vacate so Israel can steal that gas and oil. America, OTOH, 6000 miles away from the epicenter, is under red high alert, extreme caution, for ISIS under the bed. Just ask Obama or Lindsey Graham.

Posted by: Fast Freddy | Aug 12, 2014 11:03:15 PM | 137

Vanilla ISIS ISIS BABY...

Funny fast freddy. You are absolutely correct. Lindsey Graham pulling up his propaganda petticoats running around on teevee screaming ISIS is coming to get us and Israel is just on the msm grillin', chillin' and killin'...

Posted by: really | Aug 13 2014 3:30 utc | 143

The British have no honour.

And that's not a comment only related to politicians. It applies to all their sycophantic minions.

"it could take several years" while the murderers die quietly in their bed.

Conclusive findings unlikely

It is unlikely that there will be any conclusive findings from the investigative team any time soon. While the news is unlikely to be of any comfort to the victims’ families, in complex disaster areas like the one in eastern Ukraine, establishing the facts can take a long period of time. And even then, the findings of the aircraft accident investigation are unlikely to go far enough to answer some of the important questions around the crash.

Professor Braithwaite, of Cranfield University, explained the situation: “It’s fairly normal that it takes a while for hard facts to come out of an investigation. You’ll get lots of bits of evidence in any accident where things are conflicting or seem to be contradictory.


"And investigators want to make sure they’re getting their sources of information right. Often there is a report after a week which people get very excited about, but it’s rarely more than to confirm the aircraft involved or details of how many were on-board. It can take a year to get a really decent answer and if it is a particularly complicated accident it could take several years.

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/uk/news/2014_08_12/Mystery-of-flight-MH17-could-take-many-years-1990/

Posted by: DM | Aug 13 2014 3:42 utc | 144

SO...ANY THOUGHTS ON WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO MH370?

Posted by: easy e | Aug 13 2014 3:59 utc | 145

Before the suffering of the Palestinians again, as always, goes under the radar, I'd like to share this
concise but great new video by Mr.Anthony Lawson:

"The Blood of Palestine is on the Hands of the Bribe-Takers"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSPAm-ZWBAQ

PS: Palestinian fighters have inflicted over 500 casualties on the cowardly, baby-murdering Israeli military. Not bad for guys who have little more than light weapons. Even former zionist terrorist turned peace-activist Uri avnery wrote of them:
"Let's admit that our present enemy is fighting with great courage and inventiveness. That almost miraculously, their civilian and military command structure is still functioning well. That the civilian population is supporting them in spite of immense suffering. That after almost four weeks of fighting against one of the strongest armies in the world, they are still standing upright."

Posted by: Luca K | Aug 13 2014 4:10 utc | 146

Russian Spring

Donetsk. 08/13/2014-01:08

Comment:

12 of August, the Ukrainian army almost successfully attempted a massive strike in direction of city Enakievo. Taking Enakievo would mean the repugnant tentacles of enemy have clenched and cut off city Gorlovka.

Moving from city Debal`tsevo the group split. “Some continued toward Gorlovka, others attempted to breach into Enakievo. The combatants, with assistance of 3 tanks, rebuffed the enemy. The confused junta pups turned to city Uglegorsk. There a small garrison engaged in outskirt and street combat. But afternoon, the combatants left the city for Enakievo.”

Note a very deep and dangerous enemy raid between Gorlovka and Makeevka through villages Korsun`, Verkhnyay Krinka, Monakhovo, Krinichnoye – practically without resistance of the combatant, who lack operative reserves. The enemy is entrenching in attained frontiers.

Russian Spring

Donetsk. 08/12/2014-22:26

Comment:

Commander of Donetsk People Republic Army Igor` Strelkov awarded a medal “For Combat Merits” to 24 artillerists, who had destroyed 30 units of armored hardware.

As result of heroic and competent actions by warriors of combatant forces, the offensive of the Ukrainian military on city Shakhtersk was entirely stymied. In battles for Shakhtersk, the Ukrainian side lost about 200 units of mechanized equipment (carriers, tanks, trucks).


Posted by: Fete | Aug 13 2014 4:11 utc | 147

Lol - Gotta laugh at the way some commentators immediately adopted the very behaviours b had listed as most annoying.
You gotta admit most commentators hafta vomit, shit and piss on the rug here for an extended period before b shows 'em the door.

In some circumstances too long. IMO of course, IMO

Identifying groups of people by race or ethnic affiliation instead of political persuasion is a a classic example of shooting yerself in the foot.
Even if you believe that some particular ethnicity is 100% supportive of an abhorrent political belief, that they are racist themselves it is entirely self sabotaging to call them out for their race rather than the particular belief/s you despise.

Neoliberal media managers have PhD's in turning shit around to use an emotional pull to undermine a rational point of view.

Here is an example - right now in Aotearoa there is an election campaign - one that the 100% foreign owned neoliberal media are trying to pass off as a foregone conclusion.

The two traditional political groupings the conservative National Party currently in power and the NZ Labour Party (who no longer claim to be socialist, they prefer 'social democrat' label) are dyed in the wool neoliberal puppets of global capitalism.
Neither will take a firm stance on either immigration or the foreign ownership of major assets.
They get away with that because another dingbat break-away from the National Party tried to crank up a racist anti-immigration debate about 15 years ago. He didn't get much traction - won a few seats under the system of proportional representation which had just been introduced, but since he had the gall to have an englander as the party spokesperson on immigration the party's support quickly eroded.

There are problems in NZ with unrestricted immigration at the moment, but the problems young kiwis face as a result - being unable to get work or afford to buy a house isn't caused by Pacifica or Chinese migrants. It's the far larger numbers of 30 yo-ish migrants from UK, South Africa and North America entering the labour market just a couple rungs higher up the ladder than the young kiwi labour market entrants, who are making it tough for the local kids.
But because of the racist dipstick a few years back, it is considered very bad especially in so-called progressive circles, to present any policy which looks at restricting migrant inflow.

It is likely that both Australia and NZ are going to quickly move to the same population densities that caused people to move to this part of the world in the first place - excepting Australia's first people who had the good taste & sense to get into Oz around 60,000 years back and who, apart from a coupla hiccups really early on, were extremely competent at ensuring their country remained ecologically stable.
The Tangata Whenua of Aotearoa moved here from other overpopulated Pacific islands about 1300 AD.

Way off track as per usual - what I'm trying to say is that the neoliberal assholes who back in 1850's america worked out the easiest way to expand your business is to rapidly grow the population thereby quickly increasing the number of consumers have been exploiting the tighter immigration = racism lie ruthlessly and getting away with it.

There are many other examples - instances of popular movements - usually the first way a dissatisfied society expresses dissatisfaction, are either deliberately or accidentally destroyed by proponents believing that everyone else sees the world from the same point of view as they do.

Back when Morsi was unconstitutionally ousted from the Egyptian prezdency there were many outrageous claims in here that those of us who saw the most recent Egyptian coup as wrong were closet hasbara types apparently we wanted Morsi to remain in power because he wanted to topple Assad in Syria.
I can't help but wonder how many of the recent dead of Gaza would still be alive today had Morsi remained in power.

The sort of reasoning that casts those who disagree on one issue as being 'enemies' is exactly the sort of chink in our defenses which assholes bent on kissing elite ass to make a dollar, most easily exploit.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Aug 13 2014 5:10 utc | 148

@139 magoola.. thanks for the post.. if you have a link to Sergey Glazyev’s latest position paper, “How Not to Lose the War” - i'd be interested in reading it..

@146 debs is dead.. regarding your last sentence, i remembered that here @moa in regards to morsi verses the guy sisi who is essentially a stooge for the usa/israel and found it weird. i couldn't understand it - still can't..

Posted by: james | Aug 13 2014 5:46 utc | 149

from the Saker's blog:

КАК НЕ ПРОИГРАТЬ В ВОЙНЕ (HOW NOT TO LOSE THE WAR)

http://worldcrisis.ru/crisis/1584472 (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/worldcrisis.ru/crisis/1584472

"The war" being that of the ZPC/NWO vs Russia. Long, detailed article, not for the sound bite addicted.

Posted by: crone | Aug 13 2014 6:06 utc | 150

How Not to Lose the War - link to translation

http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/worldcrisis.ru/crisis/1584472

Posted by: crone | Aug 13 2014 6:07 utc | 151

James Petras channeling JSore:
Outside of Israel and its organized supporters in the major Zionist organizations, world public opinion and most experts in international law see the Jewish State’s invasion of Gaza and its systematic attack on civilians and basic infrastructure as a crime against humanity.

The purpose of this essay is 4-fold:

1. To identify the nature of the crime – the genocidal character of the armed assault and the sequence leading up to it;

2. To identify the direct perpetrators of the war crimes and their domestic and international accomplices;

3. To explain the ties binding leaders, policymakers, propagandists, accomplices and followers, including their ideologies, material interests and organizational structure which make these crimes not only possible, but met so far with impunity and

4. To identify the larger imperial interests with which Israel allies with the US, and in pursuit of which, the Gaza assault is a horrifying dress rehearsal.

The ‘Morality’ of Prison Guards in a Genocidal State

Policymakers in the genocidal state run a highly militarized society where citizens and soldiers, criminals and professionals, torturers and sociopaths can and do coexist within the same person. Cold rationality is harnessed to mass murder, technology to massive devastation , language to euphemisms and executioners parade themselves as victims (and vice versa). Moral precepts become debased and supplanted by the ethics of mass murder. Moralists, rabbis and ethical philosophers all join to bless the bombs dropped on hospitals and schools and homes and all living things – even the dead and buried do not rest in peace when the cemeteries are bombed.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/total-war-against-gaza-israeli-genocide-and-its-willing-accomplices/5395492

Posted by: okie farmer | Aug 13 2014 7:09 utc | 152

@ JSorrentine #99:

Kudos on a particularly brilliant deconstruction of the mythic structure of the modern boogieman.

Just reading what you wrote should awaken some of the brain-dead to the absurdity of the story. But when the average Hollywood shoot-em up plot is just as absurd, the level of critical thinking around stories in our culture is pretty darn low.

*Judging from your headless/topless comment, I’m sure you are familiar with the world’s most famous tabloid headline, “Headless Body in Topless Bar” , a copy of which I was proud to own for many years and brandish whenever discussions of the quality of American Journalism came up.

*As far as ISIS goes: They seem to have learned from Hezbollah and other conservative networks, as well as Iraq 1.0 and 2.0 US strategy, concerning social help networks and the provisioning of public services. So the propaganda follows a dual course: We get stories of atrocities while Mosul gets kiddie days!

******
Also JSorrentine:

Glad to see you have finally come off your high horse and are not insulting everyone on the block: It really is the best way to get your message out.

I myself tend to fall somewhere between your position and bevin/guest77 over the past year. Those two encapsulate my worldview better, but most of your posts -- those that have no worldview and are just information -- are right on. Yes, those about the evil Zionists.

But, I do think you see things as too monocausal and simplistic. It’s good of you to make readers aware of Israeli plans, but those are just plans. Don’t you think that Hezbollah and Iran, for instance, also have plans, and that they just might conflict with Israeli ones? And that China and Russia have plans? And that Hamas has plans? And all other countries, corporations, and powerful groups? And that they all might be striving to implement their particular visions? In other words, if one believes in a single “conspiracy theory,” as they are pejoratively called, one must, ipso facto, believe in many competing “conspiracy theories.” It is good of you to enlighten us as to Israeli plans. And we all get a deeper understanding of events by cataloging ALL of the competing interests, and exposing ALL of their plans and actions to the light of day.

The flow of history is the dialectic of just that conflict of many competing interests. After all, if Israeli plans were fait accompli, then Gaza and Palestine would have been cleared by the 1970‘s and Israel would have had control of the water of the Litani by 1982. the Rockefellers developed their plans for Eugenics in the 1930s and... we’re still here! (At least lots of us.)

So, the world is not just run by 100 rich Joos. Yes, they have a ton of power these days. But, there are many competing interests. Believe it or not, the world is a pretty big place.

You remind me of when I lived and worked in the Carribean for seven years in black West Indian working class society, with no whites. Every discussion -- and there were thousands along these lines -- rapidly devolved into black vs. white, slaveowner vs. plantation. Once, I had the temerity to mention that there were one billion Indians and one billion Chinese. “Exactly!,” I was told, “The Indians are black, and the Chinese are white.” You would have fit in perfectly, except they would have kept reminding you that what you thought were Jews were really whites, and they would have considered you pretty slow on the uptake.

I ended up doing a reverse Michael Jackson: It took five years, but in the eyes of my co-workers and union buddies, I turned from white to black. And being a shop steward, I was definitely black in management’s eyes. It was strange moving back to the states and being treated as white.

By the way, did I mention that I was raised Jewish and my best friends on the island were Palestinians -- who were the first people to educate me (well over 25 years ago) about their history. They changed my entire worldview over the course of a few years. And they did it without ever hectoring me, but by always calling me “Brother” and “Cousin” and inviting me over to their houses to eat and drink and share their lives and hear their stories. I hope someone shows the same compassion to you one day. If I can learn, slow as I am, I’m sure you can too.

**************
elsewhere:

"You think Arabs/Muslims are too stupid to do stuff like 9/11.”

This line has been coming up a lot lately. The airspace around Washington DC, and the Pentagon in specific, is the most protected airspace on the planet, bar none. From the time the Pentagon was built until 9-11, the US spent $15 trillion (real, not adjusted) on “defense.” What they choose to reveal publicly about the US defensive capabilities is not the half of it. Not only couldn’t Osama have done it, it is dubious that any single nation on the planet could have done it, with the exception of Russia -- and nobody has accused them of 9-11. And even they could not have done it without a massive attack -- not with a single civilian airliner. This point is glaringly obvious. It is embarrassing to have to even state it.

Remember when a small private plane hit the Clinton White House? What did that mean? You try it and you won’t get within one mile of the White House. There are g-to-a weapons on the roof of the White House. Who let that plane through? What was the message from the deep state to Clinton? What was the relationship between that event and 9-11?


**************

In Memoriam

It was around midnight on a muggy and rainy summer night, in the mid to late 1980s. My great uncle was in town and he invited me up to visit. In his day, he had been a top Hollywood insider. Born a few years after 1900, he was still a very powerful and handsome man. He still skied the black diamond slopes every winter. And that night he had an attractive girl, about the same age as I was, young twenties, staying with him -- no questions asked. Anyway, he blew my mind that evening with inside stories about Hollywood, and then even more so with inside stories about my own family, including my father.

I was in a deep reverie as I left the apartment where he was staying -- about ten blocks south of New York’s Columbia University on West End Avenue -- and waited to hail a cab back home to the Village. I waited for about fifteen minutes until I was completely soaked when I finally spotted a free cab barreling down the avenue. Just as I was hailing the cab, a man exited an apartment building on the far side of the street and quickly hailed the same cab. The cabdriver, who was veering towards me, a drowned sewer rat, saw the other man, dry, well dressed and respectable looking -- and confused about what to do, just screeched to a stop in center of the street. We both raced to claim the cab first and jumped in opposite doors at the same time. Being an aggressive New Yorker, I was about to shout the guy down, when I looked and saw it was Robin Williams.

“Hey you’re...”
“Where are you goin’ to, my lad,” He said in his best Irish brogue character voice.
“Well, the West Village.”
“Good, I’m going to SoHo. What d’you say we don’t share the ride down, then?”
“OK.”

It was one of those rainy New York nights where one would have been very content to just ease back into the cushioning, and silently watch the shimmering glow of the passing shoplights through the rivulets of water running down the windows, while lost in deep contemplation.

But that was not to be.

Instead, he launched into a non-stop staccato attack, his voice as quick as I could hear the words, moving from character to character, language to language, skit to skit, back and forth seamlessly, without missing a beat, or seeming to need to breathe. He kept an ever-growing set of dialogues going, adding, weaving, moving back and forth in space and time, subject and object, deftly painting a shimmering curtain of sound and meaning, like some sort of possessed jazz solo. I thought of myself as pretty quick, but I was aware that I was lucky to be catching perhaps half the meaning of what was being slung my way. He had me laughing until it hurt, and the cabbie barely able to stay in his lane. When either the cabbie or I managed to get a word out, he picked up from what we were saying, including it in his riff and kept right on going.

The whole experience -- the tight backseat of the cab, his face a foot or two from mine so close I could smell his cologne, our bodies bouncing up and down, our breath steaming and the windows fogging, his magically wise and playful blue elfin eyes glinting back at me in the reflected light of neon signs passing by, the cab violently careering over potholes on its way down the dark avenue -- felt dreamlike and other-worldly. We both had some sort of a buzz going before we entered the cab, but for me, this was just taking it to another level: like some sort of Star Trek mind-meld with the Charlie Parker of words at 77 RPM.

Eventually, the cab slowed to a low rumble over the cobblestones of Greenwich Village, and when we reached my place, at the corner of West 12th and West 4th streets (Yes, they meet at right angles, go figure!) he was still going strong. I imagine he could have kept going like that for hours, perhaps. I pushed a crumbled ten dollar bill in his hand and bid him goodnight and godspeed. He, of course, answered back in character.

As I walked to my doorway, I thought, “What a talent!”

And then, “How sad... Doesn’t he know how to relax and just be himself?”

We are each trapped deep in our own private hells. It can be inescapable and overwhelming.

We forget that every one else, high and low, faces that same pain.

We forget that every second of that pain, empty and unbearable as it is, is also a miracle -- a precious gift seeping through our fingers, never, ever, to return.

Godspeed, Robin Williams!

******************

juannie:

Don’t know commands in German, but surely you are familiar with clicker training? I have had many excellent experiences with training/retraining old and abused animals with their methodology. The clicker method allows the animal to be very interactive, and if you do it right, once they catch on, allows them to feel that they are training you! Really. Also, Karen Pryor, the developer of the technique, is one of my absolute heroes in this world. And her book, “Lads Before the Wind,” is great reading for any animal lover. Using the technique, I had my cats trained in over twenty five commands, agility training, kayaking, swimming, and able to play three card monte.

Let us know how you progress. Sadly, I just lost my last beloved after twenty years. A cat, he hiked with me like a dog, 14 hours -- 6 miles a day, no problem, the rest in his bag over my shoulder watching every inch of the path. He knew over 500 miles of trails, and would remember trails from 5 or more years ago. When this mad, human world became too painful for us, after Fukushima, we left the hopelessness of civilization and escaped to the real world of nature together to rest our souls. My buddy. There is nothing like the true pure love of an animal. Good Luck!

*******************

And finally....


Since many here are talking about moderation policies, I will gently chime in.

Sadly, if you give many good people enough rope to hang themselves, they will. And then all you are left with is the memory of a voice you have lost from the conversation at, what is arguably, the best bar in the universe.

Some moderation is definitely preferable to what seems to amount to a policy of letting too much leash out and then jerking it back violently.

Some couldn’t take the endless vitriolic personal invective, and left, like Don Bacon.

Some, without moderation or a clear roadmap of social expectations, get like over-heated kids, and when you ask them to simmer down, they simply can’t, like Rowan Berkeley, Bot Tak, Mr. Pragma. If you don’t housetrain this type early, they forget they are guests, believing it to be their own house.

Here are two links from Paul Graham that I have found helpful -- one, I believe from this blog -- which could be posted along the sidepanel as guidelines to staying within social bounds, and more importantly, to raising the level of argumentation a notch or two.

How To Disagree
Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement

The two lowest levels, name-calling and ad hominem, should be grounds for at least temporary suspension after two warnings. Other levels, once posters are familiar with the schema, can be gently pointed out.

Well, that’s my tip to the bartender tonight.


Posted by: Malooga | Aug 13 2014 7:43 utc | 153

thanks, crone.

that Glazyev is an interesting dude.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 13 2014 8:13 utc | 154

I've updated my diary with the following …

Sukhoi Su-25 Frogfoot – the Soviet Union’s Tank-Buster version of the U.S. A-10 Warthog

That's the reason the technical specs like Wikipedia lists "Operating level 7,000 meters." Russian documants state 10,000 meters and maximun altitude reached during test flight as 14,600 meters.

Su-25 (Su-28) Frogfoot Close Air Support Aircraft, Russia

The Su-25 is designed to defeat small mobile and stationary ground targets and to engage low-speed air targets at the forward edge and in the nearest tactical and operational depth.

Cockpit

The aircraft has an all-welded, 24mm titanium alloy cockpit with transparent windscreen armour block to protect the pilot. It is equipped with a single K-36L Zvezda ejection seat.

Weapons

The wings have ten pylons for carrying a range of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapon systems selected for the mission. Air-to-ground missiles include Kh-23 (Nato codename AS-7 Kerry), Kh-25ML (AS-10 Karen) and Kh-29l (AS-14 Kedge). The air-to-air missiles carried on the smaller outboard pylons are the R-3S (AA-2D Atoll) and the R-60 (AA-8 Aphid).

The aircraft can be fitted with UB-32A pods for 57mm S-5 rockets, B-8M1 pods for 80mm S-8 rockets, S-24 240mm guided rockets and S-25 330mm guided rockets.

Maximum flight altitude Su-25

The handbook "Flugzeuge der Welt" by W. Green (1984) , a standard work which essentially quotes the facts of the military "Janes Manuals" (also used to be NATO reference), already 1984 determined the maximum flight altitude of SU 25 (SU 25 MK, export version) with 10,670 meters (page 208 f.).

Warfare.ru: U-25 Frogfoot close air support/ground attack – Ceiling, 10'000 meter

German's flieger web lexicon states maximum flight altitude reached is 14,600 meters [test flight].

Posted by: Oui | Aug 13 2014 8:39 utc | 155

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 12, 2014 11:07:26 PM | 139

As an adjuvant to your thesis here, Philip Mirowski Never Let a Serious Crisis Go to Waste, How Neoliberalism Survived the Financial Meltdown ISBN 978-1-78168-079-7

where Mirowski shows the origins of, the forms taken by and the modus operandi used by what he names 'Neoliberal Thought Collective' (and who comprise the NTC). Be prepared for quite an interesting exposé, no prisoners taken and a delicious read as well.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 13 2014 8:52 utc | 156

Ria Novosti had an interesting article citing James Petras' views concerning the waning power of the U.S. military in Iraq and elsewhere. Concerning Iraq, Petras said:
"I think it is Washington's reengagement in this because its politics have failed, its military support for satellite governments has failed also, it is left with two options: either accepting defeat or trying to reenter the war in order to salvage some remnant of influence in that region..."
Petras thinks the U.S. involvement in Iraq is a great opportunity for ISIS because U.S. presence will give Sunnis and others all over the world a further reason to join. He also thinks U.S. airstrikes could lead to ground troops. I can't imagine anyone but mercenaries wanting to go back to Iraq, and from what I've read, U.S. mercenaries aren't exactly fit and courageous specimens.
He thinks the empire is crumbling. At any rate, the short article is well worth a read.

http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20140812/191928847/US-Seeks-to-Bolster-Waning-Influence-in-Iraq-by-Backing-Kurdish-Regime.html

Posted by: madisolation | Aug 13 2014 11:22 utc | 157

J Sorrentine "Or maybe it was that you earlier linked to a Vox media site, y'know, the company that was co-founded by the CIA-asset Kos and the other dude from DailyKos?

Oh that made me chuckle, good to laugh in the am
DailyKos and the CIA! Not really a surprise given the content over there- Just recently came across that tidbit but didn't have time to dig more up regarding the CIA connection
but- phony alt media-definitely

Posted by: Penny | Aug 13 2014 11:30 utc | 158

I just read this at antiwar. I don't know how accurate it is:

"It’s the exact thing US officials have repeatedly promised never to do – send ground troops into combat roles in Iraq. Yet with the Pentagon now having committed to air drops of aid to Yazidis, part of the new air war, they’re already looking toward the next step: a “rescue operation” that would put US boots on the ground, in direct combat with ISIS at the base of Mount Sinjar."

http://news.antiwar.com/2014/08/12/pentagon-proposing-ground-combat-operation-for-yazidi-rescue/

Posted by: madisolation | Aug 13 2014 11:31 utc | 159

Debs is dead @146- "Back when Morsi was unconstitutionally ousted from the Egyptian prezdency there were many outrageous claims in here that those of us who saw the most recent Egyptian coup as wrong were closet hasbara types apparently we wanted Morsi to remain in power because he wanted to topple Assad in Syria.
I can't help but wonder how many of the recent dead of Gaza would still be alive today had Morsi remained in power.

The sort of reasoning that casts those who disagree on one issue as being 'enemies' is exactly the sort of chink in our defenses which assholes bent on kissing elite ass to make a dollar, most easily exploit"


First off Debs, glad to see your posting

Second with regard too the Morsi coup? That was something you and I saw eye to eye on- I even took the time to go back and read your old comments on that matter. I did not agree with the coup at the time and see you and I were correct in expressing our concerns

Much of the commentary in support of the coup seemed to lean towards
Muslin Brotherhood = bad so Morsi coup = good
Which is obviously flawed logic.
I couldn't see how causing more division in the country was good for even one Egyptian
Being Canadian and realizing even in my own country divisions fostered haven't served my country (Quebec issue/Alberta separatists)
Why would they serve the Egyptians?
Didn't make sense.

Regarding Gaza? I can understand why you do wonder if the Gazan situation would have been different. At the time, it didn't occur to me, but, have now come to the conclusion that the overthrow of Morsi had to happen so Israel could attack Gaza. Israel and the US, could not be 100 percent sure that Morsi would support their collusion in theft of yet more Palestinian land and continuing policy of genocide/ethnic cleansing of Palestinians

Morsi, hadn't increased energy prices in Egypt- el sisi did that
Morsi hadn't debt slaved the Egyptians to the IMF- el sisi did that
So, Morsi might have been questionable on Gaza. The US and Israel couldn't take that chance- So, el Sisi stepped in and 'game over'
the laser light show began

Like yourself, I was "challenged" for holding my opinion
Kind of a "How dare you"
Whatever.


james @ 147
. regarding your last sentence, i remembered that here @moa in regards to morsi verses the guy sisi who is essentially a stooge for the usa/israel and found it weird. i couldn't understand it - still can't..

I was unaware that you were here at that time?
Here is just one comment I left at that time regarding el sisi stooge status

Responding to b's queries

b "If, as you seem to insist, the U.S. was the power behind the coup please explain why."

b, seriously?
I am surprised

1.3 billion US dollars a year. military support for over 40 years now buys much loyalty in the Egyptian Army.
And the training of Egyptian Military officers in the finest US military academies and you ask if the US was the power behind the coup?

Posted by: Penny | Jul 6, 2013 5:11:42 PM | 22

To which I got an adhominem as a reply

@Penny - you have a rather simplistic mechanical view on what motivates people - in this case the Egyptian army. People are more complicate than your analysis allows for.
Posted by: b | Jul 6, 2013 5:38:55 PM | 28

Well it does seem my adhominem labelled mind 'simplistic view' was onto something.

Posted by: Penny | Aug 13 2014 11:33 utc | 160

If my extremely lengthy post shows up twice, please delete the duplicate
thanks!

Posted by: Penny | Aug 13 2014 11:34 utc | 161

guess what: france says its OK for russia to arm novorossiya rebels....
FRANCE 24 @FRANCE24 1h
#BREAKING - #Iraq : France to supply weapons to #Kurds 'in coming hours' (French presidency) http://f24.my/live #ISIS

Posted by: brian | Aug 13 2014 11:46 utc | 162

as for egypt
Posted by: Penny | Aug 13, 2014 7:33:40 AM | 157

for the hundredth time....Morsi had to go:he was ready to send the egyptian military to syria to kill syrians...

How exactly did the USA stab Egypt and its people in the back with Morsi and the Muslim Brothers?
In July 2012 the Chief of Egypt’s Military Intelligence, Omar Suleiman, died during a routine medical checkup in a U.S. Hospital in Cleavland. Omar Suleiman was not only one of the closest of Al-Sisi’s friends. Omar Suleiman also had detailed knowledge about the U.S., Qatari and Turkish intelligence services’ involvement in the Arab Spring.
Morsi became Egypt’s first democratically elected president. Morsi suspended the lower house of parliament and the judiciary without protests from the USA. Morsi changed Egypt’s constitution and election law, making it impossible for non-Islamist parties to compete in elections. The Obama administration praised Morsi for reforming Egypt. Morsi became Egypt’s first democratically elected dictator. U.S. propaganda sold the coup as struggle for freedom and democracy.
When the opposition demanded serious talks about the constitutional changes, the prominent Muslim Brotherhood leader Amr Darrag said that it was “a waste of time and that suspending the national dialog over the constitution issue was unrealistic”. It was after Darrag’s statement in January 2013 that he opposition began organizing mass protests.
In June 2013, Morsi achieved one more record. About 14 million Egyptians went to the streets and demanded that he either start talks with the opposition or step down. The military deployed to protect public buildings. The warning that the military had to step in unless Morsi began talking with the opposition was ignored.
The U.S. Response to the ouster of Morsi on July 3, 2013 was unequivocal condemnation. The worst betrayal, however, had yet to come.
In August, police and military announced that protesters would have to leave Rabia Square because the one month long occupation of the square had brought traffic and businesses in inner Cairo to a standstill.
Mysterious snipers were seen on rooftops, firing at those protesters who were following police orders to leave Rabia square. A panic ensued and people fled back to the square where they were met with automatic rifle fire. Hundreds of panicking protesters were mowed down by Muslim Brotherhood militants who opened fire from behind sand-sack enforced positions in the square.
Videos, showing military shooting, were distributed to Al-Jazeera. Not one word was said about the fact that the military fired at the gunmen who were firing into the protesters. 578 were killed, 4,021 injured.
The U.S. Response was unequivocal condemnation of the brutal massacre on peaceful pro-Morsi protesters. It was after this incident that Al-Sisi said:
“The people of Egypt are aware of the fact that the USA has stabbed Egypt in the back with the Muslim brotherhood and Morsi. It is something that Egypt will not easily forget or forgive”.
http://journal-neo.org/2014/08/10/the-u-s-stabbed-egypt-in-the-back-al-sisi/

Posted by: brian | Aug 13 2014 11:50 utc | 163

Morsi went,..syria survived

Posted by: brian | Aug 13 2014 11:52 utc | 164

http://progresoweekly.us/isis-post-pr-photos-took-john-mccain/

McCain was likely in syria training the Free Syria Army(aka ISIS). McCain reminds me of that disgusting US senator depicted in the Mark Wahlberg movie SHOOTER (2007)...

Posted by: really | Aug 13 2014 11:58 utc | 165

Russia told them, "to choke on your chicken."

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140813/191968537/Russia-Intercepts-US-Poultry-Smuggled-From-Kazakhstan.html

Posted by: really | Aug 13 2014 12:36 utc | 166

Hi brian@160

Bottom line, speaking only of Egypt- the political machinations only served to divide the Egyptian populace and el Sisi quickly brought in IMF edicts- Morsi did not

Morsi was openly fomenting hostilites towards Syria, but, then so was/is Erdogan. So is Saudi Arabia. etc
Notice those leaders are still in place?
Why? One reason, I belive, is servitude to Israel

Posted by: Penny | Aug 13 2014 12:45 utc | 167

I want those MH17 cockpit tapes, this whole thing is driving me nuts.

They can keep the flight recoder data! What exactly happened when whatever authority went to AC and confiscated the AC tapes? When did that take place (precise timing)? Why? One supposes just some hapless reaction - OMG there’s something effed here we hafta get the effing tapes? (The same info is on the plane tapes.) Who is that guy Carlos? Where is he now?

Recall, my idea is that it was first shot, to kill the pilots, to stop them from communicating anything. However, they had time to veer, make an aversive move, and there will be screaming and so on the tapes. They were wounded (one badly, I think on the left side of plane but not sure) but they had a little time. A bit later, it was hit by an air-to-air weapon, decompressed, shattered, fell. Why that method is a mystery, but rogue ops (cultprits: Kiev coupist connected) are often a muddle and include plan B, plan C, in any case they were working from inescapable superiority. The plan was most likely for a ground-to-air weapon. Logistically they couldn’t get that together, too complicated.

It appears to me that the link between the deviated flight path and the fact it was brought down is very strong. Alternative explanations for the deviation exist but are flimsy. The ‘usual’ corridor was very busy, used by all other flights, would or could the pilots request a change to save fuel, accept a bribe, or whatever? Malaysia airlines, not some tinpot private craft? I assume it was deviated, perhaps dual purpose, a) to isolate it away from the busy corridor, b) to have it crash into ‘separatist’ territory. The order to deviate came from Kharkiv.

This is one of the crucial parts of the plot and it was dangerous for the instigators (if all this is correct.) That voice will be on the cockpit voice recorder. Could this have been done in some way independently of Kharkiv AC staff? (Like a fake phone call that can be traced but the speaker can’t be identified and one can only state that speaker is not whom he is pretending to be.) I don’t have the technical knowledge.

This part of the plot seems to me to be harder to manage than the rogue plane(s) that did the job.

—> all speculation natch.

So we hear the order to change flight path, and the pilots saying, fine, OK, then they chat, etc. What do the listeners make of that? Obviously there is a problem - a rogue employee, a boss who gives an unusual order…Wiki tells us that the selection of the flight route will be examined by the Dutch Safety board. (Thus separate from analysis of shrapnel etc.) Btw the wiki is lousy.

Best guess: the report will furnish a pile of technical detail, but it will stop there. The fiction that the plane was brought down by a ground-to-air missile, e.g. BUK, will be de-bunked, etc. but nothing more will be said. The MSM has done its job - the separatists / Russia are to blame. The cockpit tapes will not be made public, will be glossed over.


Posted by: Noirette | Aug 13 2014 14:38 utc | 168

I continue to suspect that MH17 was diverted over the combat area after Kiev planes had heavily bombed cities in the Donbass precisely in order to provoke the separatists into shooting it down.

Upon consideration, I wonder if MH370 was diverted as a test of the diversion technology.

Posted by: lysias | Aug 13 2014 14:58 utc | 169

@163 brian

Just so I’m clear - Are you implying the US preferred the MB to a military dictatorship in Egypt? Or that they passively accepted the results of the Egyptian election and decided to get on the winning team’s bandwagon?

Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 13 2014 15:04 utc | 170

brian

That people like you still defend the israel, us dictator in Egypt is crazy and is a proof that some people never learn. Morsi wasnt anyway near to send military to Syria, stop lying.

You support Morsi that is against Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah but is pro-Israel, pro-US and pro-Saudiarabia.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 13 2014 15:26 utc | 171

@168 noirette

The order to deviate came from Kharkiv.

Has this been proven?
I thought Dnipropetrovsk was the regional ATC.


Rosaviatsiya: Ukrainian air traffic controller guided Malaysia Airlines flight
http://www.interfax.com/newsinf.asp?id=521912

According to Federal Air Transport Agency (Rosaviatsiya) head Alexander Neradko: "When the plane disappeared from the radar screen it was the responsibility of an air traffic controller of the Ukrainian Dnipropetrovsk air traffic control center".


Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 13 2014 15:30 utc | 172

@john #140

Appreciate your offer and yes, I know that the problem goes far deeper than commands although that seems to be helping somewhat. I clicked on your name which was linked but just got a back to this same thread. With 40 years of experience with GSD’s I am sure a discussion would be helpful. How do I contact you or you can contact me. If ok with you I'll post an email address. I notice that I can no longer just have my name show up with a link. That used to be the case.

Posted by: juannie | Aug 13 2014 15:48 utc | 173

@151 crone.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Aug 13 2014 15:56 utc | 174

Am I missing something here?
Since the junta is involved in the research of the Malaysian plane, is there anyone here that think that junta is going to put forward a report that say that it was themselves that did it? Or am I missing something?

So why are we waiting on this report? it will say rebels did it, either directly/indirectly.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 13 2014 15:59 utc | 175

@175
http://en.rsf.org/ukraine-ukrainian-parliament-approves-very-12-08-2014,46793.html


With proposed bills like this I don't think anything kiev or its backers present regarding the investigation will be credible. Besides kiev and the west 'knew' who did it before the first piece of MH17 hit the dirt. Thus all the pro russian rebel and putin finger pointing the day of the incident.

Posted by: really | Aug 13 2014 16:13 utc | 176

Rules are fair. Thanks for your efforts, also to all who are providing informed observations and terrific links.

Posted by: syd.bgd | Aug 13 2014 17:07 utc | 177

Anyone for a chuckle?Check out Angry Arab and the video of the settler climbing up to the Palestinians roof.

Posted by: dahoit | Aug 13 2014 17:22 utc | 178

Now the ferguson pd says their officer was hit in the face by mike brown. I call bs on this revelation. Why did it take 4 days to release such important info? Because it is likely concocted bs. It would not take much to punch someone on the cheek.

In addition all the secrecy and unwillingness to interview the main witness who was part of the incident undermines ferguson pd credibility. Now there are reports they want to ban night time protests and vigils.

Posted by: really | Aug 13 2014 17:38 utc | 179

@179

http://t.co/huroeXo5kn

Posted by: really | Aug 13 2014 17:46 utc | 180

Malooga @141
There's nothing much in your post that I can disagree with.

The point that I am trying to make is that fascism has now become, as it always promised to do when it was the way that colonies were ruled, the ruling ideology. And all that stuff designed to appeal to the white working class- developed from social imperialism in Europe and segregation/racism in the US- is no longer important to it. There is still plenty of that social darwinism about, no end to theories combining cod genetics with snobbery into a bell curved science, but there is nothing new about it. Nor was there is Erasmus Darwin's day, it's just "Here's tae us! None like us."

And, of course, it is the belief/fear which underlies the view that one group or another is so much smarter than we, or the rest of humanity, are that, unless we are eternally vigilant they will enslave us-if they haven't already done so...

But that has no enduring importance, nor do coloured shirts or logos taken from sanskrit. The fascism of the thirties was a form of imperialism envy, found particularly in European states with few or no colonies, grafted on to the fears of the bourgeoisie, which was more than happy to promote the idea (a variant of the Methodists' Pie in the Sky) that 20 hectare farms in Libya, or Ukraine or Palestine awaited workers ready to desert socialism and throw in their lot with, their racial brothers, the exploiters. After all, before Libya there had been Kansas, Manitoba, the purple plains behind the River Plate and much much more, in the southern hemisphere.

The basis of modern socialist movements was the revulsion of a dispossessed peasantry, in England against the loss of autonomy that losing land and commons rights and being thrown naked into the Labour Market meant. Hence the Chartists' Land Scheme and, later on in the C19th the plan, sponsored by those social imperialists from Birmingham (not Ala) led by Chamberlain and Jesse Collings, for smallholdings-two acres and a cow. A variant on the 40 acres and a mule, others thrown onto the labour market yearned after.

So I see fascism as being just an exotic episode in a history of the evolution of the Empire into a global capitalist system which has reached the limits of expansion and can only continue to grow by turning inwards and devouring humanity. Any reading of John Stuart Mill shows that liberalism is merely a precursor to fascism and that neither (and not Mill, himself, either) could exist without imperialism.

And not even the most depraved neo-nazis in Ukraine could exceed the brutality of the NSA directed, US financed Death Squads which have been wandering around the world since the late 1940s. If you come to think about it Svoboda deserves recognition for its frankness in calling its think Tank "The Joseph Goebbels Institute.." I'm sure its work fits right into the mainstream.

If you take the view that fascism is a variant of imperialism you see that there is good reason to examine the early opposition to imperialism and to both urbanisation and industrialism which was one of the foundations of the socialist tradition, one US form of which was Populism. One which is often forgotten by those who see little besides Marx, the Fabians and variations of those schools.

They were right about one, very important, thing which is that there is no cure for any of those three scourges on its own and that to overthrow capitalism must also involve taking both industrialism and urbanisation in hand, because if we do not it is them which will finish off the planet.

And it is one of the curious but significant features (which goes some way to explain the political history of Greens) of fascism that, among its appeal to conservatives was its affection for organic agriculture, traditional non industrial techniques and suspicion of labour saving devices, including pesticides and petroleum fueled machinery.

Of course the most important characteristic of fascism is its utter dishonesty and lack of principles, its demagogy and opportunism, which arise because, in the final analysis, it is concerned only with the power of a ruling class and regards any more ideology as little more than window dressing for the hoi poloi's delectation. But that doesn't matter in the sense that much of the appeal of fascism to the masses it needs, if not to win over at least to divide, lies in such conservative policies as organic agriculture, agrarianism, returning to the land, combating pollution and the rest of a long laundry list, much of which few here would take exception to.
And those who would, the positivists, progressives with their faith in industrialisation and acceptance of proletarianisation, those who relish Marx's sneer at the "idiocy of rural life" are as much the heralds of dystopias as the capitalists themselves.

Nice story about Robin Williams, incidentally. I had been wondering what all the fuss was about, nobody cared that much about Tony Hancock.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2014 17:46 utc | 181

Ouch :
Igor Strelkov is badly wounded. We were told so by a source in the Novorossiya [common reference to the Donetsk and Luhansk self-proclaimed republics] leadership. He is in grave condition,” the agency said.
DNR Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Purgin could not confirm or deny this information. He told ITAR-TASS that Strelkov had been in the area of intensive fighting lately.
“I have no precise information, but this is likely to be true. As far as I know, he was not in Donetsk but in the area of Shakhtersk, Torez and Snezhnoye where intensive fighting is going on,” Purgin told ITAR-TASS by telephone.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/744833

Posted by: zohiloff | Aug 13 2014 18:03 utc | 182

Malooga,

Just spotted your reply to me @ 153. Initially missed it because I was focused on responding to john and then left the Moon for a while. Anyway I value your input. Thanks. I have already ordered “Lads Before the Wind” based on your recommendation and a read of a brief review. My wife and I actually have our own clickers which were given to us by one of my wife’s dog trainer friends but have fallen short of unitizing it for lack of comprehension. But the message was they work well, so you have reinforced that and now the work of learning to utilize it begins.

Interesting! I remember that I clicked on your name to go to your link a long time ago and, if I remember correctly, it was about animal training or care or such. I should have known that you would have good info. But then I don’t have the long term clarity of mind that comes from long hikes and so much fresh air to say nothing of other species companionship. What a wonderful story of your cat. My wife is the true animal lover in our family. I love them but spend (probably too much) time on intellectual inquiries so don’t connect with them as she does. For example, our last rescue dog was a not well chocolate lab (a true sweet heart) that she brought home from a college girl in the city to die in peace here in the country. But she brought him back to health and he graced our lives for about two more years. He eventually curled out outside and my wife pulled out a sleeping bag beside him for the night. He passed just after sunrise the next morning with her holding him. Just a really beautiful side of this otherwise apparent wretched world.

I am so appreciative of your response and I intend to keep you advised on Hugo’s progress.

Best,
John

Posted by: juannie | Aug 13 2014 18:50 utc | 183

@153

"So, the world is not just run by 100 rich Joos. Yes, they have a ton of power these days. But, there are many competing interests. Believe it or not, the world is a pretty big place."

I'm glad you mentioned my favorite bit/line of hasbara (not accusing you) - i.e., the world is "run by the Joos" with accompanying eye roll because I would like to speak to it as it concerns my POV which is more nuanced than you depict.

Human beings use conceptual models to better explain/understand their world. The more closely a model hews to reality the more utile it is in understanding reality. Can you see where I'm going with this?

Looking at the disproportionate power that Zionists/Jews etc have in the US Establishment, which model is a more accurate depiction of reality? The one purposefully mocked by the "Joos run the world" hasbara line or that which states that Zionism is just one of many competing interests in the US?

In the thread from the other day I detailed the reasons why I believe that we should look at Zionism as one of the prime causal factors in much of which the US does. Why? Because that is what the data tells us.

Even after YET ANOTHER shameless Israeli genocidal slaughter that took over Palestinian 2000+ lives this is what we see: Powerful US politicians/Establishment members publicly still genuflect - it is a genuflection - before Israel. MSM censorship and informal gag orders still apply in regards to the Israel. Professors are still losing jobs due to their views on Israel. Celebrities - even foreign nationals - are having their careers threatened and by a group of executives which includes among it's members a self-admitted Israeli nuclear spy who just won the Academy Award for Best Picture this year.

Nice, huh?

In yesterday's thread when I was speaking about what's happening in MO, the US police state and how that it has become Israelified I wanted to highlight how due to the inordinate influence of Zionism/Israel in American society we have become a militarized police state.

Do I need to bring up the revelations that it has been documented since the early 00's that Israel has had a direct tap in US raw intel?

Thus, to go back to the top of my post, the reason there was a need for the creation of this bit of hasbara that I see repeated on every good "progressive/fake left" site is that - surprise surprise - it pretty much is accurate when it comes to describing the American political system and by extension - i.e, the US as global hegemon - much of the world's attitudes/actions.

I don't think that "Joos run the planet" BUT it's all plain as day that to say that they do run the US is not too far of the mark and any attempt to ridicule statements to these effects should be considered hasbara or well-being but still inaccurate politically correct silliness.

The needless complexifying of situations - in the face of objective data - by the politically correct left is really is what is hampering their ability to be effective in today's world.

I hope this clarifies my POV not as someone who tritely believes in the mythical/deflective "Joos control the world" model that the hasbarists attempt to create but the model that is backed by decade upon decade of documented fact.


Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 13 2014 19:01 utc | 184

Adding:

should be...

"or well-meaning but still inaccurate politically correct silliness."

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 13 2014 19:04 utc | 185

@182

Igor Strelkin is fine the reports are false per The Saker.

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/08/ukraine-sitrep-august-13-1515-utczulu.html?m=1

Posted by: really | Aug 13 2014 19:07 utc | 186

pantaraxia @ 172.

You are right, it is NOT proven, or solidly attested to, it is something I ‘assumed’ from studying it all, thx for detail.

Where MH17 ‘was lost’ according to what ACT, at what time, is yet another question. So who knows.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 13 2014 19:09 utc | 187

JFC, just go away shameless CIA stooge.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Aug 13 2014 19:38 utc | 188

brian

That people like you still defend the israel, us dictator in Egypt is crazy and is a proof that some people never learn. Morsi wasnt anyway near to send military to Syria, stop lying.

You support Morsi that is against Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah but is pro-Israel, pro-US and pro-Saudiarabia.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 13, 2014 11:26:47 AM | 171


snigger,,,,the fellow(anonymous) actually believes this. inspite of its being documented
he even has me supporting Morsi.Nevertheless Mosri benig Muslim Brotherhood this neesd to be kept in mind:

'ISIS is an extremist group that follows al-Qaeda's hard-line ideology and adheres to global jihadist principles.[88][89] Like al-Qaeda and many other modern-day jihadist groups, ISIS emerged from the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood, the world’s first Islamist group dating back to the late 1920s in Egypt.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
Anonymous is supporting ISIS thru the muslim brotherhood

Posted by: brian | Aug 13 2014 22:25 utc | 189

Just so I’m clear - Are you implying the US preferred the MB to a military dictatorship in Egypt? Or that they passively accepted the results of the Egyptian election and decided to get on the winning team’s bandwagon?


Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 13, 2014 11:04:36 AM | 170

the US is a military dictatopship masquerading as a democracy

do you really seek clarity or just a confirmation of your own views?

your knowledge of egypt seems abysmal

Posted by: brian | Aug 13 2014 22:27 utc | 190

Posted by: Penny | Aug 13, 2014 8:45:10 AM | 167

the egypt situation is one that has interestingly brought out the inner MB in a lot of people (it had Zeroanthropolology block me on FB and twitter)..a successufl eg of public manipulation?
Lets keep it simple: Morsi is Muslim brotherhood...syria fought the MB in a war back in the last century...ISIS is muslim brotherhood and both are religous puritans seeking to oust anything that offends the interpration of islam..Gaza is not the issue here and 'democtacy or dictatorship' is another herring
EU and US canada australia etc all call themselves 'democracies'...and all behave like dictatorships and support israel

syria is the key to understanding events in the middle east, not gaza. The 'military dictatorship' of egypt opposed any war on syria...keep that star in your sight

Posted by: brian | Aug 13 2014 22:34 utc | 191

brian

You link to wiki to a well known anti-muslim author. On top of that you have apparently no idea that enact the 'salaf' is not something the Muslimbrother want to enact.

The fact that you think you are helping Syria by supporting the anti-Syria, anti-Hamas, anti-Iranian, anti-Hezbollah Sisi is spectuclar bordering retardation on your behalf.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 13 2014 23:28 utc | 192

Just heard on the news that two journalists were arrested in Ferguson, Missouri. One was from the washington post and the other huffington post. In addition one of the reporters was assaulted.

Posted by: really | Aug 14 2014 0:46 utc | 193

The WASP sector of the Elite could checkmate, not immediately defeat, but checkmate, the Jewish sector if it wanted to; it does not.

Posted by: truthbetold | Aug 14 2014 0:48 utc | 194

Russian Spring

Donetsk. 08/13/2014-23:40

Comment:

A review of combat situation from combatant Prokhorov.

Combat in settlement Novosvetlovka (Lugansk) is still ongoing (earlier, an enemy group assisted by tanks carried out a raid from Lugansk airport to settlement Novosvetlovka. The settlement sprawls along a key road connecting Lugansk with Russia. From this direction entering of the humanitarian column would seem logical).

In outskirts and south part of city Miusinsk (Lugansk ?) the combatants blocked up to a company of opponent troops. Either they capitulate or become interred.

Battles for Ivaylovsk continue. By the way, some armored vehicles were transferred there.

Battalion of mercenaries-criminals Shakhtersk reported 13 wounded, 3 of them severely. Did they again attended Ivaylovsk?

Ukrainians reported withdraw from city Yasinovataya. But:
1. True, they withdrew
2. True, they were hit nicely
3. False, they had ever taken Yasinovataya.


Russian Spring

Donetsk. 08/14/2014-00:23

Comment:

August 13 morning. A bus carrying warriors of “Praviy (Right) Sector” drove to a combatants’ block-post in settlement Mandrikino at entrance of Donetsk. During ensuing combat, the combatants shot dead 7 radicals and wounded other 13. One defender of Donbass had fallen.

Posted by: Fete | Aug 14 2014 4:01 utc | 195

MH370?

Posted by: easy e | Aug 14 2014 5:26 utc | 196

@196 Why ask here? Try Bollyn.

Posted by: DM | Aug 14 2014 6:24 utc | 197

http://m.theepochtimes.com/n3/875545-antonio-french-alderman-in-st-louis-arrested-in-ferguson-mo-protests-videos/

The alderman was arrested for unlawful assembly while sitting in his car. Please pass this around. French leads the local reporting on twitter. He is an important voice for the people in Ferguson.

Posted by: really | Aug 14 2014 12:08 utc | 198

@100

Here is Antonio French's twitter page. He has a lot of footage on the Ferguson, Missouri police action. Please share. Thanks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AntonioFrench/status/499740440967786496?p=v

Posted by: really | Aug 14 2014 12:19 utc | 199

bevin @ 181, others, Fascism(s) for modern times ;)

* Melding of means of production (ok Marx!), profiteering from that in cahoots with banking and finance, that is controlling *investment* first of all (NOT the means of exchange, printing, interest, and the like.)

* thus implying a symbiosis between ‘the economy’, often boiled down to ‘corporations’ and the Gvmt, or a consequent giving over of power to ‘Finance’ and those who “add value” to use modern-speak

* which inevitably leads to a rapacious attitude towards ressources captation (fossil fuels, minerals, etc.) to feed the productive apparatus

* which can only be run by an entrenched elite of some kind: *caricatures*: post-monarchy (France), hucksterism and corruption with revolving doors (USA), bling frills and superficial leader-love (Italy), one-party technocratic cadres (China), etc.

* With, traditionally, the ostensive trappings of hyper-nationalism, often framed ‘ethnically’ or according to some other classification of individuals, turned to ‘moral values’ of a ‘pure’ kind, ‘conservatism’ and so on, which will rally the people and make them both submit, be subordinate, and fight if necessary, for their people, their brothers. The core was values of strength and resolve in conditions of adversity (which can be noble!) to serve national aims, and often conquest.

The values appealed to differ - ‘modernity’ may promote inclusiveness, disapproval of racism, a role for women outside the home, -democracy- (USA); jackboots may be glossed over with ‘humanitarian’ discourse; the concept of an exalted ‘Great Leader’ may be outdated; conquest is economic rather than military; all of which shows us that Fascim(s) can be as much of the ‘right’ as of the ‘left’, in fact it is an extremism of the ‘center’…Today ‘it’ is not merely organised by a link between territory and human groups, though old-style examples are not hard to find.. (See for ex. Israel, Ukraine ..)

Up to a point, fascism as a doctrine (or philosophy, or political organisation) is in its application in real life, a question of degree. It is badly defined, and shift-shapes. We are used to looking at extreme examples in the past and making associations. I have left the ‘authoritarian’ aspect out, as that is not particular to fascism.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 14 2014 15:19 utc | 200

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